התמלול המלא של Does Getting Older Make You Anxious and Depressed?

found was so interesting is you did your dissertation based on research with widowed people. 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:22.800 Correct. 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:33.039 And you practice in many states, but you have a solo practice here in Chandler, Arizona, where you provide in-person and video telehealth to patients. 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:39.280 And then mom even read in your bio that you attended Texas Tech at one point. 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.520 That's right, Texas Tech, the Red Raiders. 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:42.319 I took one course. 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:44.879 You did, but I got married in Lovebook. 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:45.919 Married in Love It? 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:46.719 I'm married in Love. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:47.360 All right. 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:49.280 So, oh my gracious. 00:02:49.439 --> 00:03:13.199 So before we dive into our conversation today, after people walk this journey today with us, what is one thing that you hope that both generations, my generation, Gen X, and maybe the baby boomers, what do you hope inspires them or encourages them or give them hope after walking this journey today with us? 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:23.759 Well, so much of our mental health and aging, it really comes down to the our longevity being as much about the quality of our life that we lead. 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:32.000 It's not just about our genetics, but very much about how we shape our lives uh throughout our lives, but especially as we get into our senior years. 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:33.759 The quality of life. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:34.719 I love that. 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:35.599 I love it. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.199 I think I was go ahead. 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:41.439 No, I just think that is really so important, and I want to hear more. 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.439 Well, well, we're gonna we're gonna definitely hear more. 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:54.560 I was yesterday with my 31-year-old and we were hanging out, and he said, Mom, it's about the quality of the days, not the quantity of the days. 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:58.479 And so I think that totally relates to to what you were saying. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:09.360 So in a recent conversation, we were talking about um anxiety and depression in seniors is temporary and not chronic. 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:10.319 Exactly. 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.039 Tell me about that, expand on that a little bit more. 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:18.319 Well, just because you get old doesn't mean you become anxious and become depressed. 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:19.519 Not not by any means. 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:28.959 We still want our senior years to be uh a time of joy in our lives, a joy of uh time of joy, a time of meaning, of vitality. 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:33.680 So uh anxiety, depression can come on, of course, at any age. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.639 But the the thinking though is that as you get older, of course, you get more anxious and depressed because of physical limitations and whatever. 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.319 That's all treatable though. 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.160 Every bit of that is treatable. 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:49.839 Once once you become depressed or anxious, doesn't mean you're doomed to stay that way for the rest of your life. 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.600 Not not at all, not by any means. 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:53.120 They're very, very treatable. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:05:02.480 And I s I suppose about a third of my clients, in fact, um, are over the age of 60 or so looking for ways to get through their anxiety and depression. 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:09.759 And so what you're saying is the anxiety and depression is maybe sometimes caused by some of the aging issues, right? 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.600 And then it's also about just how to get through that and manage that. 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:14.319 Exactly. 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:14.800 Exactly. 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:25.120 And I'm afraid so many people think, oh, this is just how aging is going to be, and accept it rather than thinking it's treatable and they can move on. 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:26.240 Very much so. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:26.959 Very much so. 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:28.800 It's it's not just a part of aging. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.240 There's uh a lot of a lot of good research now. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.720 I I won't bore you with too many details, right? 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:37.920 But with research, but excuse me. 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:44.639 Um joy span is is one uh such um concept to think about. 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:54.240 We have our you know, our lifespan and our health span, and joy span is the length of our lives that is vital and has a lot of meaning in it. 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:59.600 It was uh developed by a gerontologist named Carrie Burnheid out of San Diego. 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:00.879 Joy span. 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:01.759 Joy span. 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:02.639 Joy span. 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:04.160 I never thought of that. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:06.399 I love it, but it makes perfect sense. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:07.439 Right, right. 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.360 How long is your joy span? 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:16.639 Uh and she emphasizes four uh verbs, in fact, about about uh uh senior aging. 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.040 One is to continue to grow. 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.839 Okay, keep learning, keep learning, keep learning. 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:22.879 Okay, that makes sense. 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:24.560 Keep growing, all right. 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:29.279 Keep adapting, keep adapting to various changes that come into life. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.720 We technology, moments, AI. 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:33.600 Right? 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:36.560 Okay, growing, learning, adapting. 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:38.959 Right, and then keep uh connecting. 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.040 Okay, so stay connected to people. 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.839 A lot of people think when I grow old I'll just

be alone. 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.120 And and loneliness is uh a previous Surgeon General said loneliness is an epidemic. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.800 Well, we don't want that to happen in in our senior years. 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:56.879 We want to keep connecting to people, which means you keep making new friends every year. 00:06:57.519 --> 00:06:57.920 All right. 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:04.560 You just don't you know keep up with your old high school or college buddies if you can, but you need to continue making new friends. 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:10.240 Whenever there's a change of residence, make new friends. 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:12.319 And then finally give. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.399 Give to others what you have. 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:15.759 Oh my goodness. 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:16.240 I loved it. 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:17.600 I would have never thought of that. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:18.720 Giving, yeah. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:24.720 There's an example that uh she writes about of someone who started connecting with the young family. 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:26.720 They needed help with carpooling. 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.720 So two or three times a week, she goes and picks up one of their kids after school. 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.040 I mean, it can be something that simple. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.720 This uh this already has been almost brought tears to my eyes. 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:37.839 Joy Span. 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:39.199 Joy Span. 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:50.639 And and I love those are really things that you can actually do or work on, you know, that that uh I think I'm excited about it. 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.759 They're applicable, they're reelable, and they're definitely doable. 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:56.639 Very doable. 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:57.439 Very doable. 00:07:57.759 --> 00:07:58.480 Lots of ways to do that. 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:00.879 I I'm gonna stop just a minute. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.240 They're very doable. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:21.920 But having been a widow myself two times, I know at least the second time I was no longer working, and it was like my life had been devoted to this man, and when he passed away, it was like I had no life anymore. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:22.319 Right. 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:23.040 You know, right. 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.439 We really didn't have any friends anymore. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:27.439 So I did become in a slump. 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:28.319 She did. 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.879 And how funny you mentioned that, because when uh Dr. 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:37.519 Little Ford was talking, I that was uh I think people can go back to that episode that we talked about that. 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:40.080 We'll put that in the show notes as well. 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:48.480 But mom went through a period of I would say you were depressed and she was very dependent on me very to provide her socialization. 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:53.039 I would get mad even when she didn't pay attention social things, you know. 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:54.240 And pay attention to her. 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:54.799 Sure. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.919 So I I like that you mentioned that that's not that's temporary. 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.159 Well, there is there is the grief work that must be done. 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:04.960 All right. 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.360 Um go on that, because that was one of my questions. 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:08.799 Keep on going. 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:11.759 Sure. 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:18.720 Anyone, you know, who lives past you know the age of 60 or so, they've been to a few funerals of close friends and loved ones. 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.320 And so there is there, you know, we all have to learn how to grieve. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:25.519 We all all have to learn how to face our bereavements. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.840 And grief work has to be has to be processed. 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:34.399 You can't escape it, you can't hide from it, you can't cover it up with drugs or alcohol. 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:36.639 It'll still be there when you sober up. 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:40.159 It's work that has to be done, the grief work. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:46.240 Uh and it's we we do come to a place of resolution in our grief. 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:52.320 Now, you you still will have a tear in your eye on anniversaries and holidays and things like that. 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:52.799 Yeah. 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:53.200 Sure. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.279 So we never say grief is over. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.519 We don't use the word closure with grief. 00:09:57.759 --> 00:09:57.919 Right. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:07.759 But there is a resolution in in the sense that you've d rediscovered a sense of meaning in your life and and that you will keep going forward. 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:17.440 Uh but the yes, the loss of a spouse is is uh really what in a way led me into this because I was only uh 25. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.600 I've been married four years and my first wife died of ovarian cancer. 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:22.720 Oh my boy. 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.559 And my father had died nine years before that in his 40s. 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.000 So I saw my mom go through it, and then I was experiencing that. 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.679 Uh and then my current wife, uh Pat, she's she was widowed um as well when I met her. 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.840 You know, most women my age in my twenties and thirties really couldn't relate to me, but I could relate to her. 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:44.480 Okay. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:54.480 So uh with with uh in grief work, we uh for a lot of it is of course getting through the emotions, all the sadness. 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.559 Uh there's often a sense of uh sometimes sometimes there'll be some anger, which is a part of grief. 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:01.200 Which is a part. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.799 There'll be

there's some fear, nervousness about how can I keep going forward. 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:05.519 Definitely. 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.679 Okay, there's how am I gonna make it? 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.320 You know what what's gonna happen to me. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:17.840 Uh but there's um in the grief work though, you share it with others again. 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.399 All right, grief has to be expressed. 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:27.519 Well, I when I was reading some of your work, you mentioned that time does not heal wounds. 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.080 No, it really takes work. 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:40.960 And I appreciate that about when you're saying the grief work because, and I'm also going to give some kudos to mom, is she had to work through that. 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.279 She she had to, and it wasn't always pretty at times in our house. 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:55.440 There were a little heated moments and and um things like that, but you had to work through that and come out like who am I at, who am I now? 00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:06.320 And I really appreciate what you said about you need to talk about it because I have been to a program called Grief Share, and that was the value to me. 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:23.120 I mean, they were we were presented with lots of research material and stuff, but finding someone that I could share with and identify with and talk about what was going on in my life and how I felt and those emotions that made no sense to me. 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.360 Oh, you have feelings you've never felt before. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:25.919 Yeah. 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:27.360 Yeah, incredible. 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:28.799 Feel the feels. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:29.600 Yeah. 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:35.039 This message is brought to you by Amada Senior Care Phoenix in the East Valley. 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:40.480 At Amada Senior Care, we help seniors live safely and comfortably at home. 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:42.879 That's where life feels familiar. 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:51.360 From a few hours of companionship to more involved personal care, our trained caregivers support aging adults and the families who love them. 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:57.679 At Amada Caring is personal because we're often walking the road with our own parents. 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:06.879 If you're walking alongside your mom or dad and wondering what support could look like, learn more at AmadaPhoenix.com. 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.039 We are enriching lives one family at a time. 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.159 So let's um, is there such a thing? 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.240 I'm gonna switch kind of topics, everyone. 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.440 Is there a thing as healthy aging? 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:20.879 Healthy aging? 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:21.279 Yes. 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.159 Well, sure. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.840 There's well, there's many things we can do to keep promoting our health. 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:27.600 You know, I'll put it that way. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:46.799 But, you know, as as far as our mental health is concerned, we want to, of course, be uh we you want to have a close circle of friends and and loved ones so that you can be open with them, so that uh so that there's somebody who's always kind of aware of your emotional interior. 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.720 Probably goes back a lot to the sorry to take this away, but that joy span. 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.240 I still can't get off of that. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:53.919 That is wonderful. 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.159 I'm gonna go get that book or go have to work on her joyspan. 00:13:58.799 --> 00:13:59.279 What? 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.360 Okay, so we can have some healthy aging. 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:11.679 Um, but what is some of the biggest obstacles or emotional changes people go through as they age? 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.399 A lot of it has to do with their reaction uh to physical problems and limitations. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:38.080 And uh, you know, if somebody's had a heart attack, for example, or a diagnosis of Parkinson's or diagnosis of cancer and how they react to these things, uh, if if that becomes very discouraging and uh and defeating to them, sometimes people will say, What did I do to deserve this? 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.120 Uh you know, we'll we'll get through that. 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:50.399 And there's um uh some people will say, I did everything right in my life, I didn't drink too much, I didn't smoke, I didn't, you know, party too much. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.279 You know, I did everything right in my life, and this is what's happened to me. 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:58.480 So a lot of it has to do with how we react to what's you know going on in our lives. 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:08.639 Uh I mean there's a a lot we can do to promote health in our in our lives, but we all have to acknowledge, of course, life isn't fair. 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:09.279 Okay. 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:11.360 Yeah, that's very true. 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.399 Life isn't fair. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.840 Much much of and not predictable either. 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:16.320 That's right. 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:18.320 Have you been in my house with my kids? 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.720 I'm like life is not fair. 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:21.120 No. 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:22.960 Fair does not mean equal. 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:24.720 That's what we said in our house. 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:26.480 Fair does not mean equal. 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:33.600 You know, you it's just you know, and so much of psychotherapy involves the acceptance of reality as it is. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:44.559 And and once we accept the reality as it as it is, then we can start making uh action plans on what are my possibilities here as opposed to what are my limitations. 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:45.759 I love that. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.840 Possibilities, action plans.

00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:55.600 Yeah, but um and I love how we took two different things away is I took away accepting. 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:56.240 Right. 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.720 Right accepting reality. 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:04.080 And then you took away going like, oh, then there can be an action plan after you accept it. 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:16.159 The reason I didn't do accepting is a lot of times you accept and you don't know how to proceed, so you just sit there and in this puddle, so to speak. 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:17.919 You know what, that's true, mom. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.600 Some people accept it. 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.759 Well accept it, but not take action or put some things. 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:24.799 They just sink. 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:25.440 Sink. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:25.919 Yeah. 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.080 But then is that really accepting? 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.320 Well, it is. 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:39.840 It's accepting and accepting in a negative way, because you say, This is the way the rest of my life is gonna be, rather than what can I do about it? 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:40.320 Yeah. 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.120 Yeah, it's not a denial of what's happened. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.600 Okay. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:54.879 We're not we're not it's not a denial, but but there's a sense of defeat and discouragement that comes in uh when people just sink, you know, and that that that can become a clinical depression. 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.720 They literally don't get off the couch all day. 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:57.519 And they don't. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:58.080 Right. 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.879 So tell me about your work. 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:02.159 I'm very interested. 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:24.559 So do do you work with a lot of seniors, like maybe baby boomers, moms age, and and this is I I guess I don't know how to answer that or ask this question, but is it normal to go to maybe a psychologist or a therapist as as we age and have to go through some of these, you know, emotional processing? 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:30.240 Well, the stigma of seeking mental health treatment is a lot less than it used to be. 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:32.400 Ah, hallelujah, right? 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:33.519 I started this. 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:36.480 I mean, I've been a psychologist for 40 years. 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.960 Uh and the stigma has definitely come down a great deal. 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:46.960 We've had some um well, I know the pandemic did a lot of that, you know, six years ago. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:47.440 Yes. 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.240 That was uh brought a lot of mental health challenges, you know, to the general population. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.720 Uh and then been there have been some well-known people like Simone Biles. 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:03.440 Um, you know, she withheld from a from uh one of the uh events at the Olympics due to her mental health. 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.119 Uh but you know, she came back stronger, but she said she was seeking help for it. 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:12.079 I mean, examples like this have helped uh to reduce that stigma. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:20.240 And it's uh yeah, uh you know, the older population I would say is underserved in seeking help. 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:28.160 So I hope um, you know, this podcast and others you know like this will help encourage people uh to to seek out more help. 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:38.160 Because like I said, there's many things we can do to help and to help people move forward in their lives to regain their vitality, regain their sense of meaning again in life. 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:39.599 Yeah, their quality of life. 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:43.200 And I think, I think just make it that it's normal. 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:44.240 Exactly. 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:54.559 That maybe struggling through a loss of a spouse or loss of mobility or a a disease or a chronic illness, right? 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:55.119 Yes. 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.319 That yes, yeah. 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:03.759 Not saying that's normal, the feelings and the the differing emotions you have is normal. 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:04.880 Oh, exactly. 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:05.599 Yeah, right. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.799 And it's it's okay to feel that way. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:09.359 Yeah. 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:18.960 And I do think with my generation, there is a big stigma against uh seeking help of that that nature. 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:26.960 We want to be independent in our every part of our life, and uh it's hard to admit that I really need some help here. 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:27.920 No kidding. 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:28.319 Yeah. 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:30.880 Well, in so many excuse me. 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:41.279 I mean, uh we came of age during the Vietnam era, and I've worked with a lot of Vietnam veterans through the years. 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.279 Uh they never felt like they fit back in when they got back. 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:45.759 Okay. 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.799 And and so many of them really tuned out. 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:56.079 And uh, you know, the VA centers do what they can, you know, to help their veterans. 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:04.400 But, you know, keep in mind we also had the hippie generation, you know, at the time, you know, with all the anti-war protests of the late 60s and early 70s. 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.519 Okay, well, these are the folks who are now into their 70s and 80s. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.160 Right, right. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.680 You're right, entirely, yeah. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.920 You know, and there is that stigma though, uh, of seeking help. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:18.880 It was it was all about just, you know, you just gotta isolate and take care of yourself. 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.720 Um, more than ever, we have to keep people connecting with others. 00:20:22.960 -->

00:20:26.319 That that really is what's gonna uh help turn this around. 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.880 I think that it's such a key thing. 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:30.880 Socialization, connection. 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:39.680 I think that because that kind of spurs you on in maybe some of this other areas that you mentioned, like learning and things like that, if you're connected. 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.359 Right, right, right. 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:44.880 Uh it it it it we all encourage each other that way. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:49.440 You stay connected and then hey, let's go try this, or let's go, you know, let's let's go try that. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.839 Yeah, have you ever been to a karaoke bar? 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.720 Let's give it a shot. 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:53.119 Okay. 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.160 Well, I think that's how you started playing Mahjong. 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:03.200 Is somebody said, why don't you come in, you know, and you she began learning, and and that's become a social thing for you now. 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:08.720 One one last question, uh, because it it's basically for my generation. 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:17.839 What emotional challenges arise when adult children start helping their parents more? 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:23.440 And do some adult child relationships become stronger? 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.279 And why? 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.759 That was a load, those are crisis. 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:28.880 Sorry. 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.759 Well, just take it away, just answer something. 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:36.160 Well, it's it's I know it's kind of the I mean I've heard it called the sandwich generation. 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:41.039 Uh, you're taking care of your older parents and your kids, and you're in the middle. 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.279 Yeah. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.799 Uh and so you're you're kind of in the middle of the sandwich there. 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:51.599 And what's what's fascinating, uh, I mean, it can go either way in terms of getting closer or whatever. 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:52.799 It can go either way. 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.720 It's it's amazing though when you when you really sit and listen. 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:04.079 Um, I have a friend who's um Uh, whose mother died of cancer when she was in her seventies. 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.880 And she was then her father started developing health problems. 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.880 And he was World War II vet. 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:17.359 So she would take him to doctor's appointments and sometimes they'd have to drive for an hour to get there. 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:18.960 And he began talking. 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:24.079 He began talking about his experiences in the war that he'd never talked about before. 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:30.640 Uh so she learned so much more about her dad in those hour-long drives, for example. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.799 Just just just something like that. 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.240 Um helped help draw them, you know, closer together. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:40.000 Uh, and she she learned so much more about her own dad's history that way. 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:41.920 I'm so glad you mentioned that. 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:45.200 And I think you can see me tearing up from across the table. 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:58.559 But even though mom and I live together in a multi-generational house, I think these conversations have brought us together because we s we see each other's perspective. 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.400 Yes, that's definitely true. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:05.279 And we're I don't want to say we're forcing the conversation, but we're being intentional. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.480 Intentional in having conversations. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.559 So I do think that our relationship has even become stronger. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:12.960 Yeah. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:13.599 Definitely. 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:14.559 I have to agree. 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:16.720 So thank you so much. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.319 This has been a powerful time. 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:26.480 Before uh we wrap up, can you share some of the resources that our listeners uh might find beneficial? 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:31.839 You brought um some resources or some books that may Oh, there's my favorite. 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.839 Oh, well, I mentioned Joy Span. 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:34.160 Okay. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:35.599 I mentioned this book already. 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.039 It was Joy Span by Dr. 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:38.079 Carrie Burnight. 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:38.640 Okay. 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.680 This uh this came out, I think, just two or three years ago. 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.039 This is relatively new. 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.000 I can't wait. 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:45.119 Okay, this is a good one. 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:46.160 Get that one. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:51.279 And then this one, this is Dick Van Dyke's book, 100 Rules for Living to 100. 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:52.319 All right. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.079 He turned Dick Van Dyke. 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.000 He turned 100 back in December. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:56.880 Yes, yes, yes. 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:57.599 Okay. 00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:59.359 He's he's still going strong. 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.720 And I mean, and he's, you know, he always wants to make people laugh. 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.319 He's been a performer since a kid. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.920 He did magic shows as a kid. 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.359 And so he just he just grew up doing shows his whole life. 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.279 Uh, but learning to play. 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.759 He he he he still knows how to play with children. 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:14.319 All right. 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.920 He's 100 years old and he can he can get down and play with kids. 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.519 That's just, you know, one example. 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:24.960 But I mean, he's he's been through addictions, he's been through widowhood, he's he's coming out of it. 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:28.079 I mean, or he, you know, I should say he's just had an amazing life. 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:28.880 He keeps going. 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:29.920 He sure does. 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:37.599 And then um just last week, Time magazine's September 7th issue is on the science of aging. 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:47.119 And and the the cover stories about a man who won a Nobel Prize in some of his work uh in finding four tiny little genes. 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:52.400 Of course, they're all tiny, four genes that help actually reverse aging within a cell. 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.240 He got a Nobel Prize for it. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:55.119 Wow. 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:55.920 Okay. 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.160 There is so much information out there. 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.400 You read one book, I'll read the other. 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:00.960 I know. 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.519 I I want to read both of them actually. 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.559 So that sounds good. 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.039 Thank you so much for being on today. 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.000 We've learned so much and have we've just had a fun time. 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.000 Yeah, good having this conversation. 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:13.200 It's good to be here. 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:13.680 Thank you. 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:14.400 Thank you. 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:30.400 Well, if you've enjoyed this conversation, please share it with others and you maybe it starts um encouraging your aging loved one to maybe just have some help and normalize that going through some aging um is normal. 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.599 I lost my word and my memory. 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:39.359 So also, adult children maybe need some help as well. 00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.319 And it's all part of the normal aging process. 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:46.400 Uh thank you again so much, and we'll see you on the next walk. 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:52.000 This is Karen, and I just wanted to say thank you for spending some time with us today. 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:59.839 Please come back for more laughs, more connections, and more real life moments between these two generations. 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.480 See you on the next walk.