התמלול המלא של Walking Post podcast 57: Walking from home to Rome

forest fires. You'd think that governments 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:41.539 would actually realise this is now a pattern, 00:02:41.659 --> 00:02:44.620 and figure out some ways to tackle climate change, 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:48.180 rather than just reacting to it. And hiking in 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:51.300 heat isn't the greatest either. Anyway, let's 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:56.000 move on to July the 31st. It is Avocado Day. 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:59.909 talk in an elevator day also known as a lift 00:02:59.909 --> 00:03:02.710 and that's tough to do here because i'm not sure 00:03:02.710 --> 00:03:06.830 where the nearest one even is it's uncommon instrument 00:03:06.830 --> 00:03:10.370 awareness day so i don't think my drum kit counts 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:14.389 it's also lifeguard appreciation day hawaii flag 00:03:14.389 --> 00:03:18.530 day and it is raspberry cake day for birthdays 00:03:18.530 --> 00:03:23.129 fred quimby of tom and jerry fame liberace Fatboy 00:03:23.129 --> 00:03:26.629 Slim and Will Champion, the drummer in Coldplay. 00:03:27.150 --> 00:03:29.990 Last time on the podcast we talked about the 00:03:29.990 --> 00:03:33.889 Ironbridge Gorge World Heritage Site and the 00:03:33.889 --> 00:03:36.629 walking festival there. This week we're talking 00:03:36.629 --> 00:03:40.069 about a new book called Walking from Home to 00:03:40.069 --> 00:03:44.409 Rome and we chat to its author Geraldine McFaul. 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.379 Before we get going, if you do have news, guest 00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:50.699 ideas, or subjects to cover, or comments, or 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.000 you want to advertise, please get in touch via 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:56.659 walkingpost .com, or just email me at jim at 00:03:56.659 --> 00:04:03.740 walkingpost .com. And so to this week's interview, 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.000 and it is with Geraldine McFall from Glasgow, 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:10.439 who decided she was going to walk from her home 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:14.360 to Rome in Italy. and she did and then she wrote 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:16.800 a book about it which is called walking from 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.240 home to rome hi geraldine it's great to chat 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.300 with you today about your walk and your book 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:25.939 and of course i have a million questions i'm 00:04:25.939 --> 00:04:28.420 interested to know if you did a lot of walking 00:04:28.420 --> 00:04:31.480 before taking this on i don't consider myself 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:35.209 and always a walker. A friend of mine did some 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:37.110 walks and we called ourselves the Slow Travel 00:04:37.110 --> 00:04:40.089 Girls. So that gives you a measure of what I 00:04:40.089 --> 00:04:43.769 mean by speed. But yes, I have actually done 00:04:43.769 --> 00:04:47.060 quite a few walks. There was a colleague of mine 00:04:47.060 --> 00:04:50.079 years ago that used to do the Munro bagging and 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:51.579 we would always say, oh, where are you going 00:04:51.579 --> 00:04:54.600 this weekend? And we would follow him. So I have 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.959 done some Munros many, many years ago, but don't 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:00.319 ask me other than the easy named ones. I don't 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.100 know which ones we did because we were just going. 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:05.139 So yes, I have done plenty of walking in Scotland, 00:05:05.139 --> 00:05:09.759 but I've also, 2015, a friend and I walked from 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.589 London to Cardiff. So we walked from London up 00:05:12.589 --> 00:05:14.930 to Gloucester and then we found the source of 00:05:14.930 --> 00:05:17.670 the Thames and followed the Thames into London. 00:05:17.709 --> 00:05:21.089 So that was about 300 miles. And then two, three 00:05:21.089 --> 00:05:23.629 years later, the same friend and I walked between 00:05:23.629 --> 00:05:26.430 the seven cities of Scotland. So we started in 00:05:26.430 --> 00:05:29.709 M &S, over to Aberdeen, down to Dundee, Perth, 00:05:29.709 --> 00:05:33.850 Edinburgh, Stirling, Glasgow. So we've done another 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:37.939 300 miles. I have walked in Palestine. through 00:05:37.939 --> 00:05:41.120 the west bank and i've walked to jordan so yes 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.579 i have done walks but the longest of those was 00:05:44.579 --> 00:05:49.399 300 miles nothing like this one so what prompted 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:53.480 walking to rome from scotland i have got no idea 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.339 all of my walks previously apart from one really 00:05:58.339 --> 00:06:01.399 has been with other people but The background 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:05.759 to this one, honestly, was back in 2016, sitting 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.680 here in the living room, I had a thought. I've 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.480 never been to Rome. And the next thought was, 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:14.720 one day I'll walk there. That was it. What a 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.060 stupid, ridiculous thing to think. But it was 00:06:18.060 --> 00:06:20.259 so stupid and ridiculous that I didn't tell anybody 00:06:20.259 --> 00:06:23.459 for two years. And by the time I started to talk 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:27.600 about it, I had two rules. I am not carrying 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.300 a rucksack. And I am not going over the Alps. 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.560 That's the background to walking from Glasgow 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.879 to Rome. Was it just a challenge of it? Or was 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:41.560 it just that you like the long distance walks? 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.920 Honestly, it was literally that random of one 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.759 day I walked there. I really didn't think it 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.279 through. To be honest, I don't think I thought 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.519 an awful lot through before I stepped out the 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:56.240 door because if I did too much

thinking, I would 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.759 have scared 11 daylights out of me and not gone 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:02.540 anywhere. So it was literally, let's see, give 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:05.980 it a go. So it wasn't about being fast or being 00:07:05.980 --> 00:07:09.100 the best or going the furthest. I had no idea 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:12.120 if I would get anywhere near Rome. I just thought... 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.199 this idea has planted and I'm going to follow 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.540 it through. Did you do any planning? Like, did 00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.199 you check the route or did you figure out where 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:24.040 you were going to stay? No. The other background 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.500 is that 2016 was also the year that mum was diagnosed 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:30.660 with vascular dementia. So I knew even then that 00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:33.740 I didn't know when, if I would ever do this, 00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:36.019 but I certainly wasn't planning it while mum 00:07:36.019 --> 00:07:40.279 was around. That was for sure. And she... passed 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.300 away in April 2022 so it was another six years 00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:48.660 which was great and the night before mum's funeral 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:53.279 I received a refugee family from Kiev from Ukraine 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.420 who were refugees from the war so I suddenly 00:07:57.420 --> 00:08:00.259 the night before mum's funeral had a mum a dad 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:02.399 a three -year -old and a six -year -old here 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.040 in the house and they stayed with me for five 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:06.800 months it was lovely it was a great distraction 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.879 Probably not perfect timing, but actually good 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:14.220 timing. And it was later in that summer, we knew 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:16.579 that they had been allocated, by that time, they 00:08:16.579 --> 00:08:18.980 had been allocated a flat. And my friend said 00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:21.579 to me, listen, you've talked about this walk 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:24.579 for long enough now. This is your time. Get the 00:08:24.579 --> 00:08:27.199 diary out. Make a commitment to yourself. Go 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:31.180 on your walk. So I opened the diary with her 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:35.289 there and we decided the 6th of May, 2023. I 00:08:35.289 --> 00:08:37.690 was walking to Rome. And I reckon that probably 00:08:37.690 --> 00:08:42.009 was about September of 2022. So that's when any 00:08:42.009 --> 00:08:45.289 planning, not much planning, started. Could you 00:08:45.289 --> 00:08:48.789 tell me a bit about the walk itself? My not good 00:08:48.789 --> 00:08:52.789 over the Alps, that was it. I had solved that 00:08:52.789 --> 00:08:57.240 in my head purely by thinking. Once I get into 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:00.100 France, about halfway across, somewhere in France, 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:03.240 I'll turn right and I'll go down to the coast 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.019 at Marseille or somewhere like that. And I'll 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:09.139 just follow the coast round into Italy. And that 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:11.980 means that I'll avoid the Alps. So that was my 00:09:11.980 --> 00:09:16.190 Greek solution. The only... Proper route planning 00:09:16.190 --> 00:09:19.590 I really did was my friend and I took a weekend 00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:23.070 trip down from Glasgow down to the Scottish border 00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:26.730 and just across the Kielder Forest. So basically 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:30.470 I was walking from Glasgow pretty much down the 00:09:30.470 --> 00:09:34.330 Clyde Valley to Lanark, Peebles, Selkirk and 00:09:34.330 --> 00:09:37.149 across the border. So that was when I discovered 00:09:37.149 --> 00:09:39.370 that the Kielder Forest, which is just south 00:09:39.370 --> 00:09:42.990 of Selkirk across the border, is mobile phone. 00:09:43.549 --> 00:09:47.190 no man's land and it's about 18 miles you know 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:50.289 with nothing and yes i i also thought that i 00:09:50.289 --> 00:09:53.330 was going to be wild camping so i didn't fancy 00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:55.990 that but i thought i'll solve that before i get 00:09:55.990 --> 00:09:58.929 there so that was that was in my head but beyond 00:09:58.929 --> 00:10:02.789 that my idea really was walk down the east side 00:10:02.789 --> 00:10:04.889 of england because it's flatter on the east side 00:10:04.889 --> 00:10:09.009 of england cross over to france walk around the 00:10:09.009 --> 00:10:13.379 alps and then down through italy and There wasn't 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:17.139 much more detail to the roots than that. And 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:19.700 so how did it pan out? Could you tell me some 00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:24.840 of the logistics, where you stayed and some of 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:27.970 the highlights? Yeah, well, I did have my camping 00:10:27.970 --> 00:10:31.169 gear with me. So the plan was to camp the first 00:10:31.169 --> 00:10:33.929 two nights. I wasn't very far away from my home. 00:10:34.009 --> 00:10:36.090 So my friends came and picked me up the first 00:10:36.090 --> 00:10:38.370 two nights and let me sleep in my own bed. So 00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:40.309 why camp when you can sleep in a perfectly good 00:10:40.309 --> 00:10:44.090 bed? And I did then, occasionally I would stay 00:10:44.090 --> 00:10:46.610 with friends. But what was happening? I was camping 00:10:46.610 --> 00:10:50.809 in the UK and camping in France. My idea, which 00:10:50.809 --> 00:10:53.590 I could have evolved over time, was to go to 00:10:53.590 --> 00:10:55.970 the village pub, whatever I decided at the end 00:10:55.970 --> 00:10:58.570 of the day was, and ask is there somewhere that 00:10:58.570 --> 00:11:01.029 I could camp around here? And often that was 00:11:01.029 --> 00:11:04.710 a pub garden. So that became easy. But sometimes

00:11:04.710 --> 00:11:07.110 the pub didn't have any garden. Customers would 00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:09.850 say, oh, camp in my back garden. And other ones 00:11:09.850 --> 00:11:12.309 said... Black garden, perfectly good spare room 00:11:12.309 --> 00:11:14.490 upstairs. Come in, have your dinner, have your 00:11:14.490 --> 00:11:16.549 breakfast and send me off with a packed lunch 00:11:16.549 --> 00:11:20.149 the next day. So I talk about that kindness of 00:11:20.149 --> 00:11:23.889 strangers and I say being kindnapped instead 00:11:23.889 --> 00:11:26.710 of being kidnapped. My friend a long time ago 00:11:26.710 --> 00:11:29.669 came up with that word, kindnapping. And it wasn't 00:11:29.669 --> 00:11:31.830 just people who took me in for the night. It 00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:33.850 was people, you know, pubs and cafes whenever 00:11:33.850 --> 00:11:37.340 I stopped. This is on the house. Or sometimes 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:39.519 I had customers come and say, I'll just let you 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.620 know I paid for that for you because you're doing 00:11:41.620 --> 00:11:44.399 this walk. And I had a little church grounds. 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.299 I was camping in church grounds as well. And 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:49.960 the gardener rocked up one morning and I came 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:51.799 away from the chat with the church gardener with 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.440 his packed lunch. I was sure he says, I could 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.769 go home and make another one. You can't. So the 00:11:57.769 --> 00:12:00.350 kindness was just there all the way through. 00:12:00.690 --> 00:12:04.070 So yes, I was camping. I did put myself into 00:12:04.070 --> 00:12:06.210 a B &B every now and again, usually the night 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:08.570 after I got soaked in the rain, but there was 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:11.750 no guilt in that because I wasn't out to torture 00:12:11.750 --> 00:12:15.669 myself. And my daily routine became, yes, I was 00:12:15.669 --> 00:12:18.799 walking from home to Rome, but really it... very 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.460 quickly became today. A to B is get myself, where 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:25.620 am I going today? How far am I going? Where am 00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:27.419 I going to get something to eat? Where am I going 00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:29.840 to sleep? And how am I going to sleep? I worry 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.019 about tomorrow when I get there. So it became 00:12:32.019 --> 00:12:33.940 a day -to -day thing. And I think that's the 00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:37.379 only way that I could manage it in my head. Just 00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:40.720 deal with today, get on with tomorrow. You mentioned 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.899 the kindness of strangers in the UK. What about 00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:48.259 in Europe? Do you speak French, Italian? no i 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:52.759 don't speak it i mean over yes i did my ugly 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:55.440 french and failed miserably but you

know other 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.440 than the bonjour and mercy and whatever but over 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:00.860 the course of the two months i walked in france 00:13:00.860 --> 00:13:04.399 i clearly was able to understand much more than 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:07.399 i realized not necessarily i was able to respond 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:10.730 italy Even when I was there for two months, I 00:13:10.730 --> 00:13:12.889 still didn't pick up much more than ciao and 00:13:12.889 --> 00:13:15.330 buongiorno. And I couldn't understand it because 00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.110 they speak so quickly. But the kindness of strangers 00:13:18.110 --> 00:13:20.250 absolutely was all the way through Europe as 00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:23.549 well. In France, there's a route, one of those 00:13:23.549 --> 00:13:26.929 Camino routes from Canterbury to Rome. I wasn't 00:13:26.929 --> 00:13:29.649 walking on that because those, you know, if you're 00:13:29.649 --> 00:13:32.549 familiar with the West Helen Way, that's effectively 00:13:32.549 --> 00:13:35.450 a West Helen Way type route. I had this trailer, 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:38.769 so I couldn't do that. I was on the roads. on 00:13:38.769 --> 00:13:41.309 the roads and pavements making up my own route 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:44.409 every day or google maps and also i had gone 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:47.990 over from new haven to dieppe to france so i 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:50.419 wasn't you know, going over to Calais and following 00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:53.600 the Via Frutigina there. So about halfway over, 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.019 I kind of hooked up with it, purely because I 00:13:57.019 --> 00:14:01.179 then had information about accommodation and 00:14:01.179 --> 00:14:03.580 about sort of where cafes and where information 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:06.500 was. But even before that, I was still being 00:14:06.500 --> 00:14:08.940 kidnapped in France because I was going into 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:10.740 places and they were giving me useful information, 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.799 like every cemetery in France has got drinking 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:17.159 water. has got a drinking water tap so that was 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.320 useful but if you go to the village then go to 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.500 the church or go to the council and they will 00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:25.299 put you in touch with somebody in the village 00:14:25.299 --> 00:14:27.480 who will take you in for the night or let you 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.279 camp so that quickly became a routine in France 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.639 People out in the gardens and I'm walking along 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.700 with a high -vis vest and looking peculiar and 00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:41.860 they would chat and I had Google Translate. I 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:43.940 quite often then brass neck and say, can I come 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:45.879 in and use the toilet, please? And I come away 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.480 with bottles

of juice and biscuits and all sorts, 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.039 you know, from any of those. And that happened 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.600 all the way through Europe as well. So I did 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.590 camp in gardens. put up in church grounds, I 00:14:57.590 --> 00:14:59.929 got put up in school playgrounds, you know, so 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:02.389 the kind napping and the kindness of strangers 00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:04.990 definitely happened all the way through the journey. 00:15:06.110 --> 00:15:08.529 What about the, you said you had a trailer, could 00:15:08.529 --> 00:15:13.429 you describe that? Yeah, my first rule was I 00:15:13.429 --> 00:15:16.210 am not carrying a rucksack. And that's because 00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:19.850 I've done rucksacks many, many, many times. And 00:15:19.850 --> 00:15:22.149 no matter how light you think you packed, you 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:25.950 still packed too much. So I knew of another adventurer 00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:29.110 who had run across Canada. And within a couple 00:15:29.110 --> 00:15:31.879 of weeks of his run... Somebody suggested to 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:34.860 him, why don't you put your bags in a buggy, 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:38.340 a child's buggy? So they gave him a child's buggy 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:41.320 and he ran across Canada and then later ran across 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.360 America pushing a child's buggy. So I kind of 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.600 had this. oh, that could be an idea. But I ended 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.299 up... It was a child's buggy, but it's actually 00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:53.200 one of these sports ones where it's the three 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:56.179 -wheeled buggies. And you can push it like a 00:15:56.179 --> 00:15:58.519 buggy. It's for running parents. Push it like 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:01.519 a buggy, but also it had an attachment about... 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.179 you know, maybe a five or six feet bar and strapped 00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:07.480 around my waist. And I thought I would interchange 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.159 between pushing and pulling. But very quickly, 00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:14.419 pulling became much easier. So on the flat, it 00:16:14.419 --> 00:16:17.179 was perfect because the trailer took all the 00:16:17.179 --> 00:16:21.019 weight. Going gently downhill, fabulous. Steep 00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:24.320 downhill, the trailer... tried to overtake and 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.679 that was a challenge in itself and yes it was 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.720 a rucksack then whenever I was going back uphill 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:32.000 but all of the other times it made up for the 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.500 fact that I wasn't carrying a rucksack you know 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:37.220 if you walk and you know even you stop to chat 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:39.539 to people you've still got this ton weight on 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:42.419 your shoulders or you take it off and then you 00:16:42.419 -->

00:16:44.659 have to put it back on again when you stop chatting 00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:48.440 I was standing there with no weight so the trailer 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.919 A Roman, as he was called, was just a genius. 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:54.720 I walked around the block twice before I started 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.519 walking, so I had no idea if this would work, 00:16:57.659 --> 00:17:00.659 but it worked perfectly. Did it change your route, 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:03.720 though, by having some... Like, with a backpack, 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:07.519 you can nip through a hedge or take a really 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:10.880 bumpy route, but with a... Yeah, well, bearing 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:12.660 in mind, I really didn't have much of a route, 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.819 but I knew that I was effectively I decided I'm 00:17:16.819 --> 00:17:20.119 a cyclist with a trailer. So I'm going to be 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:22.700 on the road on the same side of the road as the 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:24.920 traffic. And I'm going to hope that they don't 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.890 hit me. It's their responsibility to go around 00:17:27.890 --> 00:17:30.549 me. I did have a big orange flag and I had my 00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:32.910 high vis. I wasn't being completely stupid about 00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:36.509 it. But in your rucksack, even if you're walking 00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:38.329 along the side of the road, you're facing the 00:17:38.329 --> 00:17:41.240 traffic and you can step up out of the way. to 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.500 let the traffic go past that wasn't an option 00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:47.240 for me and also I genuinely each day that was 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.119 when I was working out when I was going today 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.559 what route I was taking so none of it was organized 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.119 it was just what's the the flattest route and 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.200 google maps is quite good at giving you maybe 00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.519 a couple of options and if it was a hilly route 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.799 I would do an extra mile or two if it meant that 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.240 I didn't do such a hilly route so it was that 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.259 made up that flexible Often with a long distance 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:10.980 trail, you don't see a lot of progress on a day 00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:13.700 -to -day basis. Were there any times when it 00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:16.500 was, you thought, oh my goodness, I've been walking 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.019 forever and I'm still only a third of the way 00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:21.980 across France. Was there any of that or was it 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:24.299 enjoyable the whole time? It wasn't enjoyable 00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:26.619 the whole time, but I don't even know how much 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:28.640 of it was because I've never made any progress. 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.019 Because I think any progress I was quite pleased 00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:33.720 with. My friends were sending me maps with lines 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.759 drawn on them. Look how far you've gone. So it 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:38.960 was, you know, that was motivating. There were 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.799 obstacles and challenges along the way. and it 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.660 was more those practical things that would make 00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:49.380 me stumble. Within a week or two, I had thought 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.720 I would have a day off every week. That was my 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.779 rough plan. Take one day off every week. But 00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:57.000 it soon became, I'm having a really horrible 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.039 day today. I'm having tomorrow off. And that 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.480 was, you know, so then sometimes I would have 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.359 tomorrow off again the next day, you know, or 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:07.420 I'll have a long lie and I won't walk so far 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:10.839 today. It was entirely flexible like that. I 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.599 genuinely never thought once, that's it, I'm 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.420 going home, I've had enough. It became a challenge. 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:19.740 I would take time out and then I would carry 00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:23.000 on again, you know. And I think because I was 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.900 on my own, going at my pace, that was what kept 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:32.190 me. I wasn't pushing it to go too far. If I didn't 00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:34.049 walk very far, then I'd meet somebody and they'd 00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:36.009 say, come and stay with us. I took that option. 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:38.250 So sometimes I walked three or four miles. Who 00:19:38.250 --> 00:19:40.990 cares? But yes, there were obstacles and I can 00:19:40.990 --> 00:19:43.250 tell you some of the challenges I came across, 00:19:43.529 --> 00:19:47.269 but not enough to send me home. All right. And 00:19:47.269 --> 00:19:48.930 what about the temperatures? Because obviously 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.430 as you, the further toward Rome you go, the warmer 00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:55.420 it gets. I don't know if you remember, 2023 was 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:57.380 a little bit like this year, where Italy was 00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:01.400 melting at 40 -odd degree temperatures, and there 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.019 was a crisis going on. I was in the UK at that 00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:08.059 time, panicking, because I'm from Glasgow. I 00:20:08.059 --> 00:20:10.380 don't do sunshine. Two things were going to kill 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:14.299 me, hills and heat. I both tried, and I did. 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.380 I'd say there was occasionally when I got soaked 00:20:17.380 --> 00:20:20.019 in the tent at night, but... There wasn't much 00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:22.119 in the way of rain over the course of the whole 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:24.740 journey. And it did

just get hotter and hotter 00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:27.480 as I was going south. Thankfully, Italy sorted 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.920 itself out before I got there. It was only 27, 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:34.380 28, which was still too hot for me. But it wasn't 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:37.440 the 40 that they'd been having. About a third 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.680 or halfway through England, I changed my routine 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.099 and I was getting up. I was starting to walk 00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:45.200 at half past six in the morning. Sometimes even 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.380 before that, the idea being get the bulk of the 00:20:48.380 --> 00:20:50.859 day out before the heat. The trouble with that 00:20:50.859 --> 00:20:53.400 was I'm very good at stopping for breakfast and 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.920 second breakfast and another wee break. And I 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.039 usually still would be ending up walking in the 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:00.480 afternoon heat just because I'm faffed so much. 00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:03.279 But the temperature was a challenge. But I guess 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.970 I had long sleeves. long leggings and the biggest 00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:10.089 ridiculous hat in the world so i did protect 00:21:10.089 --> 00:21:12.890 myself the heat stroke if i got heat stroke that 00:21:12.890 --> 00:21:14.750 would have stopped me there was heat waves in 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.609 england there was a heat couple heat waves in 00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.890 france and you know that was a challenge in itself 00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:23.529 as well i had six months of summer what were 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:26.309 some of the highlights of the walk the memories 00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:30.279 that stick out Oh, so many. I mean, the kindness 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.259 of strangers. I could tell you about loads of 00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:38.440 them. Even the first night, it was only four 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:41.640 nights in, was after I had left the Central Belt 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.960 and I had stopped with a friend just outside 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.480 Lanark and then this was it. I'm now on my own 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.700 and this is it for real. And I'm leaving to Wild 00:21:49.700 --> 00:21:52.839 Camp. And although I have Wild Camped, I've never 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:54.599 done it where there hasn't been somebody else 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:56.720 making the decision about where to do it and 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.759 how to do it. I knew the theory. I just never 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:02.660 did it myself. And, right, this is it now, Geordie. 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.619 You're going to have to work it out. And I was 00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:09.460 still fairly near the Clyde. So, yeah, I knew 00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:11.559 that there were fields and I could possibly sleep 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.740 down by the water. And instead of that, I actually 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:18.420 turned left into a driveway and knocked the door 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.019 to a random house and just said, I'm walking 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:23.779 to Rome. Would you mind if I camped in your back 00:22:23.779 --> 00:22:26.599 garden? And the guy just said, yeah, right. And 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.819 shut the door again. I never saw him again. And 00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:31.720 I camped in the back. So I got out of the wild 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:35.019 camping then. And then another time I was in 00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:37.400 a cafe and a woman said to me, when are you sleeping 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:39.720 tonight? And I said, well, I don't know. And 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.400 I ended up in her mum and dad's spare room. be 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:46.599 taken in and the the father had dementia so we 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:49.359 were chatting over lunch over dinner about mum 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.039 and her dementia and they were thanking me for 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:55.059 helping them to to understand dementia and I'm 00:22:55.059 --> 00:22:56.960 thinking you're the ones that looked after me 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.400 but it works both ways so those kind of things 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.720 and then there was the the pub routine went a 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.400 little bit wonky at one point where I rocked 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.779 up it was a Friday afternoon it was hot and sunny 00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:12.259 so the pub garden was full of families and and 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.980 in the village and I went in and sat and ordered 00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:18.259 my drink as usual and then chatted to the young 00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:20.759 barman and said, is there somewhere I could camp 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:24.220 around here? And his response was a look of horror 00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:26.259 and I just thought, oh, he's never camped before. 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.819 And he said, I'll have to speak to the boss. 00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:33.480 But before the boss came, a voice came from behind 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:36.420 my shoulder. You don't want to be camping around 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.579 here, love. You won't be safe. And this big burly 00:23:39.579 --> 00:23:41.900 man stepped back and went back to his seat. So 00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:44.259 he'd obviously overheard my conversation. And 00:23:44.259 --> 00:23:46.440 it was only at that point I realised, looking 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.960 around, the characters in this pub and the kind 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.539 of pub that it was, this isn't the kind of pub 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.940 that I would ever choose to be in anywhere else. 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:57.079 I was already there and I needed to, you know, 00:23:57.079 --> 00:23:59.720 find a bed for the night. Anyway, the boss eventually 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:02.519 came and said, get your stuff, follow me, and 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.880 went behind the bar. It was

even more dilapidated 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.079 around the back. And she said, we were at the 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.519 bottom of a set of stairs, and she said, can 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:11.240 you be out here by nine o 'clock tomorrow morning? 00:24:12.399 --> 00:24:14.380 Yeah. And she said, well, that's fine. She said, 00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:16.680 there's a room upstairs. You can sleep up there, 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.259 but you have to leave by the external fire stairs 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:21.599 from up there before nine o 'clock tomorrow morning. 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:24.680 Oh, right. And then she said, it's not my pub. 00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:26.759 I'm just looking after it tonight. She said, 00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:29.000 the only reason it's so busy through there tonight 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.660 is that there's a load of criminals and drug 00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:32.799 dealers and they burnt the other pub in the village 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.579 down last weekend. I didn't sleep very well that 00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:39.259 night, but they still kidnapped me. It just took 00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:41.420 them a wee while to work out how to kind of nap 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:43.839 me. I was out of there pretty fast the next morning 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:46.640 and marched on. That was a bit of a wake -up 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:48.319 call, to be honest, because everything up until 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.599 then had been rosy and lovely and it still was 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.099 because they still looked after me. But I really 00:24:54.099 --> 00:24:56.680 had to sort of, right, you know, have to think 00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:59.339 about this. And what I did the next day was I 00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:01.619 had all my friends all on WhatsApp and text. 00:25:01.819 --> 00:25:05.460 I put them all on one group. so that I didn't 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.859 need to stop and think, who's at work? What time 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:10.019 is it in America? What time is it in New Zealand? 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.519 I'll just put a note on, I need some help, I 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:14.900 need something to chat to, and somebody would 00:25:14.900 --> 00:25:18.000 respond. That set me up for just four or five. 00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:21.410 six months of being teased because they all started 00:25:21.410 --> 00:25:22.970 to get to know each other and they would all 00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:25.049 chat and they didn't know each other before so 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:27.309 there were obstacles and challenges. There was 00:25:27.309 --> 00:25:29.930 a six foot fence which maybe if you've got a 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.390 rucksack you could toss a rucksack over a six 00:25:32.390 --> 00:25:34.990 foot fence but getting over it with a trailer 00:25:34.990 --> 00:25:37.210 and all the stuff in it and me being four feet 00:25:37.210 --> 00:25:41.079 eleven that was an obstacle but Again, somebody 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.660 just appeared as I'm standing, staring at this 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:46.180 six -foot fence, and it was a couple and their 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:48.339 daughter, and they sort of worked out, we get 00:25:48.339 --> 00:25:50.980 you over the fence, and then we just dismantle 00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:52.960 everything and get the trailer over the fence. 00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.539 And I should have videoed it. It would have been 00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:58.160 10 minutes of comedy gold trying to get me over 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:00.319 that fence. But whenever there was an obstacle, 00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:04.099 somebody would appear and solve it. You weren't 00:26:04.099 --> 00:26:05.900 doing this for charity or anything, were you? 00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:10.420 Yes. I was doing it for a memory of mum and dad. 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.900 For mum, Dementia UK were a source of advice 00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:16.259 and help whenever she moved into the care home. 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.400 So it was natural to raise funds for Dementia 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.960 UK. And then for dad, he had died in 1999. So 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:26.119 two years before the charity was established. 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.079 He was a Black Hackney taxi driver in Glasgow 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:31.759 when I was growing up. And every day he would 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:33.940 come in with a big bag of change. And it was 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:36.920 mine. My job as a little girl to sort out the 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.480 50 pences and the 10 pences into the little money 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.599 bags for him to go to the bank. And I got to 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:45.460 keep the heipnys. Those people that are too young 00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:47.660 wouldn't know what a half penny is. So I got 00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:50.279 to keep the heipnys and I saved up the heipnys 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.640 and sent that off to a charity to help children 00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:56.420 in Africa at the time. So when I was thinking 00:26:56.420 --> 00:27:00.359 of Dad, Mary's Meals is a Scottish charity that 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.740 started in Malawi. feeding children a meal, a 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.339 hot meal every day at school. And so I thought, 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.039 well, Mary's Meals, that ties in with me and 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:13.700 the heat they're sending to help the children. 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:17.619 So I raised funds for Mary's Meals and Dementia 00:27:17.619 --> 00:27:21.740 UK. And it's close to £20 ,000 now because I'm 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:24.319 still fundraising through my talks. One of the 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.720 highlights would have been meeting the Pope. 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.039 How did that come about? That was just the most... 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:35.099 How do you top this, really? But I thankfully 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:37.539 didn't know anything about that. Because I had, 00:27:37.660

--> 00:27:39.160 I probably would have missed an awful lot of 00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:40.660 the other good things that were happening on 00:27:40.660 --> 00:27:44.430 the walk. So I actually... By the time I was 00:27:44.430 --> 00:27:47.529 in Italy, and that was when my friends then realised, 00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:49.450 they thought, oh, she has got to finish this, 00:27:49.609 --> 00:27:52.029 because I had got over the Alps that I wasn't 00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:54.309 going over. So, you know, the plans were starting 00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:57.130 to be put in place about when I was going to 00:27:57.130 --> 00:27:59.410 get to Rome. And then I also got a phone call, 00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:02.170 and he had been following me on the phone throughout 00:28:02.170 --> 00:28:05.420 the journey, my 94 -year -old godfather. who 00:28:05.420 --> 00:28:08.660 also has dementia, Uncle Desmond, and he had 00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:11.779 told his family, I want to be in Rome when Geraldine 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:14.259 gets to Rome. And, of course, that set panic 00:28:14.259 --> 00:28:16.500 into them, thinking, how on earth are we going 00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:19.380 to do this? So five of them came over, Uncle 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:21.880 Desmond and four of his family came over to Rome 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:24.440 to be there. My friends would be there for the 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.880 weekend at the finish line, and then they came 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.900 on the Monday. And his daughter had been able 00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:33.220 to arrange for tickets for Desmond and I to have 00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:36.059 tickets for the General Order. which is at St 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:39.380 Peter's Square on the Wednesday, and the Pope 00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:41.920 leads the service on the Wednesday. So I was 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.819 absolutely delighted, especially since Uncle 00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:46.779 Desmond was going to be there with me as well. 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.259 That was just so special. So when you've got 00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:51.740 tickets for the General Audience, you go on the 00:28:51.740 --> 00:28:54.400 Tuesday evening, Tuesday afternoon, to collect 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.660 them at the brass doors from the Swiss Guards. 00:28:56.740 --> 00:29:00.220 That was when I discovered I was being presented 00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:03.519 to Pope Francis. the next day. And it wasn't 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.279 the Maroons that had organised that. It was the 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.019 Archbishop of Glasgow and my parish priest had 00:29:09.019 --> 00:29:12.180 secretly organised this. And apart from, you 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.799 know, it's just incredible. You can imagine my 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.259 reaction. I was in tears. And then there's a 00:29:17.259 --> 00:29:19.809 panic. But what about Uncle Desmond? Because 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:21.650 I was thinking, I can't say, well, that's fine. 00:29:21.750 --> 00:29:24.009 You can go off into the audience. I'm away to 00:29:24.009 --> 00:29:26.829 meet the Pope. And thankfully, the guard said, 00:29:27.029 --> 00:29:29.349 is he in a wheelchair? And I said, well, yeah, 00:29:29.390 --> 00:29:31.789 we've hired a chair for him for the week. And 00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:33.509 he said, that's fine. He said, he can come with 00:29:33.509 --> 00:29:36.269 you. So we were up in the sanctuary and the thousands 00:29:36.269 --> 00:29:38.829 of people were down in the square. We were only 00:29:38.829 --> 00:29:41.890 about 10 rows from the front. And then after 00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:44.009 the service, the Pope, he was in a wheelchair 00:29:44.009 --> 00:29:46.630 as well. And he was wheeled around along each 00:29:46.630 --> 00:29:49.190 of the rows. to meet and greet. Big beaming smile, 00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:51.789 good strong handshake. I don't know whether I 00:29:51.789 --> 00:29:53.910 was supposed to speak to him or not, but no words 00:29:53.910 --> 00:29:57.329 came out. Uncle Desmond blessed the Pope and 00:29:57.329 --> 00:30:01.750 then Agnes. So it was all over within a minute, 00:30:01.829 --> 00:30:04.450 but it was just such an incredible privilege 00:30:04.450 --> 00:30:08.690 and experience. And for having him there as well, 00:30:08.690 --> 00:30:11.269 he even said, I'm so privileged to have lived 00:30:11.269 --> 00:30:14.490 this long to be able to be here today. You didn't 00:30:14.490 --> 00:30:16.410 ask the Pope if there was any way you could stay 00:30:16.410 --> 00:30:19.910 that night? I didn't ask to camp for the Danes, 00:30:19.910 --> 00:30:26.630 no. Obviously, you've written a book about this. 00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:30.150 Did you plan on writing that before you left? 00:30:30.269 --> 00:30:34.509 And if not, what was the catalyst for deciding 00:30:34.509 --> 00:30:40.390 on a book? A little bit like The Walk. Well, 00:30:40.430 --> 00:30:42.930 there was even less of a plan of thinking of 00:30:42.930 --> 00:30:46.390 writing a book. Absolutely no intentions of writing. 00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:48.779 I mean, I hadn't even had those thoughts. By 00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:51.559 the time I was halfway through and I'd been telling 00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:54.039 some stories on Facebook and Instagram, people 00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.559 were starting to say, I hope there's a book on 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.380 this. And I said, don't be so stupid. Why on 00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:01.740 earth would I think to write a book? I was even 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.420 writing a few words on Facebook. I ended up not 00:31:05.420 --> 00:31:07.500 doing that very often because that was horrible. 00:31:07.579 --> 00:31:10.880 That was a chore and I hated that. So I absolutely, 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.519 even when I finished, I still wasn't entertaining 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.500 any thoughts of writing a book. But when I came 00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:21.359 back, I did a talk. I

organised a talk in February 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:25.720 24. And from that, that was one talk that I did. 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.339 Now I've done six to seven of those talks. It's 00:31:29.339 --> 00:31:31.700 just snowballed and people just keep passing 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.039 me on and I get contact from somebody when you 00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.460 come and do a talk. And it was when I was doing 00:31:36.460 --> 00:31:38.619 the talks, I realised I was getting frustrated. 00:31:38.619 --> 00:31:42.319 I couldn't tell. I haven't told you 10 % of the 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.380 stories. were happening and I thought this is 00:31:45.380 --> 00:31:47.660 so frustrating that I can't tell about this kindness 00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:50.180 particularly because there were so many good 00:31:50.180 --> 00:31:53.440 stories and I remember literally fisting on the 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.960 desk at one point and said I'm going to have 00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.660 to write the book. The walk was a massive challenge, 00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:01.599 a massive physical challenge. This was much harder 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:03.799 than doing the walk and especially because I 00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:06.609 didn't have a diary. In hindsight, even though 00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:08.829 you think, well, keeping a diary would have made 00:32:08.829 --> 00:32:11.549 the writing much easier, keeping a diary would 00:32:11.549 --> 00:32:13.349 have been horrific and I would have hated it 00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:15.490 and it would have made the walk even more horrible. 00:32:15.829 --> 00:32:19.690 So it works, you know, the book is just on memories 00:32:19.690 --> 00:32:23.109 and on photographs and videos. So I had no intentions 00:32:23.109 --> 00:32:26.250 of writing a book. I'm glad it's over and I'm 00:32:26.250 --> 00:32:28.650 quite delighted with it, quite proud of it. But 00:32:28.650 --> 00:32:31.950 that was a whole new adventure in itself. You 00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:34.630 know, the book is Walking from Home to Rome and 00:32:34.630 --> 00:32:38.630 it's available from me directly, but it's also 00:32:38.630 --> 00:32:41.930 on Amazon, Kindle and paperback. So it's available 00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:44.569 to purchase. As I say, if it was direct from 00:32:44.569 --> 00:32:47.910 me, then 20 % of the funds go to Menis Meals 00:32:47.910 --> 00:32:51.609 and Dementia UK. So how did you, without notes, 00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:54.450 how did you remember? Was it going through your 00:32:54.450 --> 00:32:56.829 phone and piecing it together from the photos? 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.180 Well, I suppose a lot of the main memories were 00:33:00.180 --> 00:33:02.960 embedded in me anyway. And because I had been 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.619 talking about things, it was still very much 00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:08.299 in my head. I was thinking about it. I was starting 00:33:08.299 --> 00:33:11.960 to write out a bit of a main plan for the A to 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.880 B plan and the main things that happened. And 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.420 thankfully, I had learned it from one of the 00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:19.880 other walks with a friend. I was wise enough 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.099 whenever I met any specific individual characters 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:26.339 to do a quick note, even just... you know, the 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:28.420 village that I was in and the names of the characters 00:33:28.420 --> 00:33:31.140 so that I had names. So I've got, because I have 00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.900 had people comment, how did I have to remember 00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:35.240 all the names of the people that you met? But 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.160 that was something that I did and maybe not. 00:33:38.539 --> 00:33:41.420 Not 100%, but it was a useful thing to have done. 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:44.220 But yeah, it was pretty much on memories. But 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:46.880 interesting, even though I had what I thought 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.599 was my sort of memories in chronological order, 00:33:50.859 --> 00:33:52.980 whenever I would go back and double check where 00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:56.559 things happened on the photos and videos, sometimes, 00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.440 oh, that actually happened before then. And that 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.660 happened after then. And, you know, so I was 00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:03.539 rearranging things. But then I was thinking as 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:06.200 well, does it matter? It doesn't need to be perfect, 00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.800 but it was interesting that your memory is different 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:12.219 from reality sometimes. Did you use the WhatsApp 00:34:12.219 --> 00:34:16.239 chats as well to pull stuff from that? Yes. Yeah, 00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:18.940 that was really useful. I printed off that WhatsApp 00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:22.159 chat and I think it was over 100 pages. Most 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.039 of it was BBT used to wind up by them, you know, 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.260 because they all realised that they could wind 00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:30.599 me up and that was easy. But yes, there was useful 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:34.099 little snippets on there as well. And for putting 00:34:34.099 --> 00:34:37.920 the book together itself, how did you go about 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.880 that? I don't know. Had you written anything 00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:44.059 like this before? Not at all. Not at all. I mean, 00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:46.840 part of my job was writing reports. So that was 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:49.400 the one part of my job that I absolutely hated. 00:34:50.059 --> 00:34:52.840 I could talk easily. And, you know, my worry 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.460 was when I did the talks, how do you write, ooh, 00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:58.179 in a book? You know, you could go, woo, when 00:34:58.179 --> 00:35:00.019 you're doing a talk and it's quite funny or whatever. 00:35:00.380 -->

00:35:02.980 But actually, it was at one of my talks after 00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:05.800 about a year. And that was the first time that 00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:07.780 people often asked, oh, what's next? What are 00:35:07.780 --> 00:35:09.820 you doing next? Where are you walking next? And 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:11.460 I would always say, well, how do I top that? 00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:14.219 I'm not, you know, I can't try and beat it. And 00:35:14.219 --> 00:35:16.860 that was the first talk where I said, I think 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.719 I'm writing a book. Help. And a woman came up 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:21.539 to me at the end of that talk and said, I think 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:24.050 we should go for a cup of tea and a cake. That 00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:26.949 sounds good. And it turns out she's an editor 00:35:26.949 --> 00:35:29.570 and a proofreader and typeset. And so basically 00:35:29.570 --> 00:35:33.909 she became my sidekick for the next year, cajoling 00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:37.429 me along, trying to unravel this book that was 00:35:37.429 --> 00:35:40.889 in my head and to type, you know, typing it up. 00:35:40.989 --> 00:35:44.010 So again, that was just, was that me being kidnapped 00:35:44.010 --> 00:35:47.329 by somebody, just a random. opportunity that 00:35:47.329 --> 00:35:50.110 came up deborah was the one name that sorted 00:35:50.110 --> 00:35:53.190 out what i was doing how i was doing it and sat 00:35:53.190 --> 00:35:56.150 me down and pushed me along till i eventually 00:35:56.150 --> 00:35:59.650 finished it and it's just come out recently I 00:35:59.650 --> 00:36:01.949 think the official publication date was the 10th 00:36:01.949 --> 00:36:05.670 of June. I've only done one talk since then where 00:36:05.670 --> 00:36:08.309 I've had the books to sell at the end. But that's 00:36:08.309 --> 00:36:11.769 my main opportunity, I think, is to sell at the 00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:14.389 end of the talks and also go back to the people 00:36:14.389 --> 00:36:16.250 that I've spoken to before and say, oh, by the 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:19.769 way, I did write that book. And actually, just 00:36:19.769 --> 00:36:22.489 last week, I started recording the audio book. 00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:25.190 I don't realise how much you paraphrase when 00:36:25.190 --> 00:36:27.550 you're reading. And that's not because I'm... 00:36:27.769 --> 00:36:30.090 entirely familiar because I've never obviously 00:36:30.090 --> 00:36:32.530 I read through the book when I was going through 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:34.489 the editing and things but it's an interesting 00:36:34.489 --> 00:36:37.070 process. It's going to be a long process but 00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:40.309 I'm quite enjoying it. You'd mentioned you can't 00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:43.789 really top Glasgow to Rome but do you have any 00:36:43.789 --> 00:36:46.969 plans to do anything equally crazy? It's an interesting 00:36:46.969 --> 00:36:50.150 question because always my reaction was

how the 00:36:50.150 --> 00:36:52.889 heck do I top that and you do wonder if you've 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:55.590 done something for me that was way beyond anything 00:36:55.590 --> 00:36:58.829 I did and especially with the finish and all 00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:01.530 the kind napping that was happening I would worry 00:37:01.530 --> 00:37:03.570 that I would spend the whole with another one 00:37:03.570 --> 00:37:06.050 thinking well the last time this happened and 00:37:06.050 --> 00:37:09.550 the last time that happened but also I did that 00:37:09.550 --> 00:37:12.769 really quite naively you know I really didn't 00:37:12.769 --> 00:37:15.349 know what I was letting myself in for and I was 00:37:15.349 --> 00:37:17.550 sort of getting more experience and knowledge 00:37:17.550 --> 00:37:20.369 as I was going through. So the next one I would 00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:23.489 be doing wouldn't have that naivety. And I wonder 00:37:23.489 --> 00:37:25.889 if that would change it as well. If I was ever 00:37:25.889 --> 00:37:28.389 doing another walking out, I'm not stupid enough 00:37:28.389 --> 00:37:30.829 to say never say never, you know, because I don't 00:37:30.829 --> 00:37:33.349 know. But I would take Roman with me. I would 00:37:33.349 --> 00:37:35.429 take the trailer because that definitely was 00:37:35.429 --> 00:37:38.550 a big help. And it meant that I got there rather 00:37:38.550 --> 00:37:41.769 than not getting there with the rucksack. Did 00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:45.489 you have any issues with injuries or blisters 00:37:45.489 --> 00:37:51.630 or sprains? I had three blisters in the whole 00:37:51.630 --> 00:37:56.130 trip and a cold. in italy i don't know why i 00:37:56.130 --> 00:37:57.909 only had three blisters and it took me a thousand 00:37:57.909 --> 00:38:00.789 miles to get the first two and i know exactly 00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:03.389 how i got them because i walked through a thunderstorm 00:38:03.389 --> 00:38:06.030 thinking well what's the point of changing my 00:38:06.030 --> 00:38:08.030 shoes i'll only end up with two pairs of wet 00:38:08.030 --> 00:38:11.269 shoes so knowing that i was risking blisters 00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:14.170 and yes i got a matching pair of blisters two 00:38:14.170 --> 00:38:16.170 or three days later and then i got another one 00:38:16.170 --> 00:38:19.150 because of the gravelly paths in italy that was 00:38:19.150 --> 00:38:21.860 really amazing that I only got three blisters 00:38:21.860 --> 00:38:26.139 and I had a cold for about a week in Italy and 00:38:26.139 --> 00:38:28.719 all I did with that was I shortened my days a 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.019 little bit and I would have a late late lunch 00:38:32.019 --> 00:38:34.480 and just go straight to my bed and sleep it off 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.820 for about four or five nights I just slept off 00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:40.780 this cold but carried on walking and I think 00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:44.900 because I was walking at my own pace on my own 00:38:44.900 --> 00:38:48.420 terms I wasn't broken. Whereas other people, 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.800 I had an Irish passport, which meant that I didn't 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.300 need to run once I got over into Europe because 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:57.219 you'd only have 90 days on a British passport. 00:38:57.320 --> 00:38:59.440 I would never have managed it in the 90 days. 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.639 Other people that I met were having to walk with 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.699 their aches and pains and blisters and struggling 00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:08.500 because they had a timetable. I didn't have a 00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:11.619 timetable. So I think that's why I wasn't broken. 00:39:12.380 --> 00:39:15.820 How long did it take in total? Six months. I 00:39:15.820 --> 00:39:19.760 had three or four days procrastination on the 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.579 south coast of England worrying about... crossing 00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:25.500 the water and dealing, you know, in a new language 00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:27.380 or a new country on the wrong side of the road. 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.000 And then I procrastinated again around Lake Geneva 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:34.059 because I, though I said I am not going over 00:39:34.059 --> 00:39:36.820 the Alps, I had met a man before the Scottish 00:39:36.820 --> 00:39:39.820 borders who laughed at me when I told him my 00:39:39.820 --> 00:39:42.300 great turn right in France and go down to the 00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:44.880 coast. He said, you do realise that that coastline 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.480 is the Maritime Alps. So the coastline goes from 00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:52.329 the water right up into the Alps. and back down 00:39:52.329 --> 00:39:55.150 to the water. Repeat, repeat. I think I'd still 00:39:55.150 --> 00:39:57.889 be walking now. So Lake Geneva was the first 00:39:57.889 --> 00:40:00.570 that I properly could see the Alps and I panicked 00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:03.670 again. So I have around, faffed around Lake Geneva 00:40:03.670 --> 00:40:06.070 for a week just to worry about how I was going 00:40:06.070 --> 00:40:08.389 to go over the Alps and then had to carry on. 00:40:09.150 --> 00:40:11.389 So yeah, I never came home at any point, but 00:40:11.389 --> 00:40:13.690 I did stop now and again just to get my head 00:40:13.690 --> 00:40:17.260 sorted. I spent... Just over two weeks in Switzerland 00:40:17.260 --> 00:40:19.739 over the course of the trip. Did you manage to 00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:22.460 stick to valleys in Switzerland or did you actually 00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:25.239 have to do a lot of climbing? Well, I had the 00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.219 Alps to deal with. By that time, I was, as I 00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:31.420 say, I had sort of roughly was following this 00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:35.400 via Fritjena. But even then... That was going 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.559 up into the hills and dales, but going in the 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:43.139

same direction as me. With that section, I basically 00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:46.039 followed the road along the lake. So I was just 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:48.420 carried on with the road along the lake until 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:51.239 I got to Martigny at the end. And that was when 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:55.039 I faced the Alps. And in the book, it tells you, 00:40:55.059 --> 00:40:56.840 as it turns out, I thought I was going to be 00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:59.119 two or three weeks lost in the mountains. But 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.579 it's actually three days of climbing. 3 ,000 00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:05.159 metres. So it was three days of 1 ,000 metres. 00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:10.000 And in the book it says, don't do this bit if 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.440 you're not happy with hills. Don't do it if you're 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:15.510 not fit, if the weather's not good. Lots of people 00:41:15.510 --> 00:41:18.170 do opt out because there are buses and trains 00:41:18.170 --> 00:41:20.510 that could take you across the Alps and into 00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:23.369 Italy and carry on walking. But of course, I 00:41:23.369 --> 00:41:26.030 was doing this for charity and I'm also a stubborn 00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:29.710 Glaswegian. So I had to do these three days. 00:41:29.929 --> 00:41:32.170 So that was, again, logistics of what I do with 00:41:32.170 --> 00:41:33.929 the trailer because I wouldn't be on the road. 00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:37.230 I would now be following the actual routes through 00:41:37.230 --> 00:41:39.889 the hills and over the tree roots and rocks and 00:41:39.889 --> 00:41:43.610 whatever. So I took the trailer. On the day before, 00:41:43.650 --> 00:41:46.829 I started to climb up to where I was staying 00:41:46.829 --> 00:41:50.059 the first night. and left the trailer with them 00:41:50.059 --> 00:41:52.840 and went back down, stayed down in Martigny and 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:55.940 then walked. The second day, they put Roman in 00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:58.079 the boot of the car and took him up to where 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.260 I was staying the second night. And then the 00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:03.260 third night, I got a taxi company to come and 00:42:03.260 --> 00:42:06.619 collect and take up to the Grantham Bernard Hospice. 00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.059 It's not the highest point in the Alps, but it's 00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:11.139 the highest point in that route, the Grantham 00:42:11.139 --> 00:42:13.760 Bernard Pass. And then almost immediately... 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.519 It got back down to the Ulster Valley, which 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:19.440 was the most interesting day for having 35 kilos 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.139 on two wheels, six feet behind you. Because the 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:25.199 hairpin bends had gone down. It was a 10 -hour 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:29.090 legs, bums and thumbs class. So two or three 00:42:29.090 --> 00:42:31.769 days later, every muscle in my body just seized 00:42:31.769 --> 00:42:34.710 up. And it was pretty obvious why. But that two 00:42:34.710 --> 00:42:36.909 or three days later was also the day that I realised 00:42:36.909 --> 00:42:39.570 my brain was empty. And it was because I had 00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:43.030 spent years and certainly months worrying about 00:42:43.030 --> 00:42:45.989 the Alps. And suddenly they were behind me. And 00:42:45.989 --> 00:42:47.829 it was like that whole bit had been emptied out 00:42:47.829 --> 00:42:50.230 of my brain and nothing else had gone back in. 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.900 My brain was just full of fear of the Alps. And 00:42:53.900 --> 00:42:56.159 I had to reset myself and say, right, get back 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.280 to your routine of looking up where you're going 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:00.440 and what you're doing. Because although I was 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:03.059 even following that route, I was still making 00:43:03.059 --> 00:43:05.360 it up every day because I was looking for the 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.880 quiet roads, trying to work out the quiet routes. 00:43:09.139 --> 00:43:11.880 In Italy, it was much more sociable because all 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.719 roads in Italy lead to Rome. As they say, they 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.440 have a whole system of hostels for people who 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.440 are walking or cycling. Even if you're not walking 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.500 or cycling to Rome, they assume that you are. 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:25.960 So it was much more sociable in the evenings. 00:43:26.019 --> 00:43:28.219 I was still walking on my own because they were 00:43:28.219 --> 00:43:30.880 all doing the actual route. But it was sociable 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:32.780 in the evenings, which was nice. I ended up with 00:43:32.780 --> 00:43:35.960 loads of friends through Italy. Although I was 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.019 walking on my own, I don't think I was ever really 00:43:39.019 --> 00:43:41.880 walking alone because people just seemed to be 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:45.500 lined up. I set out to live this simple life 00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:48.300 for six months and I'm very much aware that there 00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:50.559 are people who worry about where am I going to 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:52.239 sleep, where am I going to get something to eat. 00:43:52.539 --> 00:43:55.139 That's a daily stress that I was choosing to 00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.840 have and the privilege is not lost on me. I didn't 00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.119 know whether I could do this, but by just doing 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.800 one step, one mile, one step, it soon adds up 00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:07.829 and going at my own pace. was the way that I 00:44:07.829 --> 00:44:10.690 could do it and don't not try because you don't 00:44:10.690 --> 00:44:12.929 think you could do it just do a wee bit and see 00:44:12.929 --> 00:44:24.849 how you got on add another wee bit I would so 00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:27.719 love to do that Not sure if I'd get bored with 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.280 long stretches where the scenery doesn't change 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:32.699 very much though. But I think I'm at the opposite 00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:36.000 end of the scale to Geraldine because I am definitely 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.300 a meticulous planner. Although I'm pretty sure 00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:42.880 her way is probably better psychologically. and 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:46.380 i'm not sure about a six -month hike either specially 00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.639 filming it with all the equipment and having 00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.659 to charge it all every night speaking of which 00:44:51.659 --> 00:44:54.800 i do have to charge lots of stuff to -night so 00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:57.130 i should probably go and do that I did recently 00:44:57.130 --> 00:45:00.230 buy a new charger that can take seven different 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:03.150 cables at once and what a difference that makes. 00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:06.269 Especially if you charge things with the USB 00:45:06.269 --> 00:45:10.929 -C to USB -C cables. That is so fast compared 00:45:10.929 --> 00:45:14.289 to the USB -A cables. Those are the fat ones 00:45:14.289 --> 00:45:17.440 that you always try the wrong way up first. Anyway, 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:19.320 that's it for this week's podcast. If you do 00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:21.900 have news or suggestions for podcast guests, 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.099 please do get in touch through Jim at walkingpost 00:45:25.099 --> 00:45:28.099 .com. We're always looking for guests, whether 00:45:28.099 --> 00:45:31.039 it's about a new trail, a new book, a walking 00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.840 festival, or just someone who's done an amazing, 00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:37.860 unusual or interesting walk. So I hope you enjoyed 00:45:37.860 --> 00:45:40.559 this week's walkingpost .com podcast, and I hope 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.079 you'll have a great week ahead, hopefully with 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.659 a walk somewhere. whether it involves meeting 00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:49.800 the Pope or not. Until next time, happy trails.