התמלול המלא של Bit Planet Games' Christopher Stockman On Ultrawings Remakes & More

And I said, okay, I pivoted and decided that this is what I wanted to do VR stuff. 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:20.000 I loved Pilot Wings. 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:25.199 Ultra Wings was my original sort of brainchild of like pilot wings and VR. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.319 That was the pitch. 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:36.560 I went to Meta, got a little bit of money off to the races, and and you know, here we are 12 years later, and and you know, still at it. 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.560 That's incredible. 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:39.199 That's incredible. 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.039 When did Ultra Wings first start developing? 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:46.240 I know it launched in 2017, but what was the year that your team first started like working on it uh full-time? 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.520 Uh yeah, so this was probably mid 2015. 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:55.520 It took about a year and a half to make, and we were a tiny team. 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.719 And yeah, it launched 2017 on PC. 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:03.759 And and then, you know, I'll be honest with you, it did not light the world on fire. 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:07.439 It came out uh I think the first month it made like 30k. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:17.680 Certainly not enough to support any any team that really very, you know, not reason, not enough to s to support a team, basically. 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:18.479 Right. 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:31.840 And we were we were, you know, criticized for various things that were accurate, but but what it happened is we we ported it to gear vr. 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:43.599 So we got a little bit of money from Samsung, and we ported it to Gear VR, and then we got a little bit of money from Sony, and we we started the PSVR 2 or PSVR 1 version, and we just kept signing deals. 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:49.680 We got money from Microsoft, we got, you know, it was just like these these these smaller deals, and that's what kept us afloat. 00:03:49.840 --> 00:04:07.120 And it wasn't until it came out on Gear VR and then Go and when Oculus put us on the Go box, Gear VR really Samsung heavily promoted it, Oculus heavily promoted it, and then really everything took off when it came out on Quest 1, when we ported it to Quest One. 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:09.520 And it was a launch title for the Quest One, right? 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:11.360 It was 2019, yeah. 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:19.600 Yeah, and then and then and then COVID, and and then it's like sales just kind of took off, and then and then, you know, for the first one, right? 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:25.600 And then the second one comes out, and you know, light years better than the first one in every way imaginable. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.199 And then uh yeah, I mean that did incredibly well. 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:30.800 And then yeah. 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:48.560 So when you this is one of the first flying games in VR that didn't use a gamepad or a traditional controller, you were actually like hand-on, throttle and stick, doing everything, you know, flipping the switches to start your ignition, pressing your ignition to you know to get uh to get the propeller going, that sort of stuff. 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:54.000 So you didn't really have a blueprint for that sort of interaction when you built. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:05:02.639 How long did it take you to just get uh people I think underestimate how long it takes to get something as simple as reach out your hand and flip a switch and make that work and feel natural? 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.360 How long did it take you to kind of get those mechanics figured out? 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:08.879 Well, you know, when we first started working on it, we just only had a gamepad. 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:10.639 We didn't have the the the touches, right? 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.839 They didn't weren't available. 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.639 You know, we got early access to those. 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:20.959 And it was, I don't know, I want to say like three months to start, maybe less. 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:22.560 I I can't recall. 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:24.000 That was so long ago. 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.920 It was fairly quick, I remember, to get something up and running. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.079 I wouldn't say it felt good, but it was fairly quick. 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:37.600 But I I'll say this when we first put it in, my emotions I I'm really susceptible to motion sickness. 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.639 I've said this many times, but I'm really susceptible to motion sickness. 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.199 That is fascinating given the game that you make. 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:44.480 I know that is so fascinating. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.759 I didn't know this until well, you know, when we were I first playable. 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.959 And and and I I couldn't play it. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:56.000 I mean, for more than five minutes, and I was out for the rest of the day. 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:56.800 Wow. 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.839 Yeah, and and and here's the thing here's what's so odd about the about motion sickness. 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:06.160 I mean, everybody uh it treats everybody differently, everybody you know responds to it differently. 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.639 But when we got motion controls working, cured it completely. 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:11.680 Really? 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:12.720 Okay, yeah. 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.680 Just because the simple fact of being able to be hands-on with that's kind of just tricked your brain? 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:19.759 Okay, that's interesting too. 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:26.160 Yeah, I could play it then for hours, and I could do crazy things, barrel rolls and somersaults and all that sort of thing. 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:26.800 Yeah. 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:40.319 Did your susceptibility to motion sickness encourage you to put in uh because it had there's like more realistic controls and there's arcade

controls, and the arcade controls are a bit more constrained in terms of like, you know, you're not doing barrel rolls and things like that. 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:40.879 Yeah. 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:46.160 Was that the impetus behind doing that, or was it always the plan to have both kind of styles, flight styles in the game? 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:47.759 I it wasn't because of me. 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:58.240 It was yeah, it was just because is what was suggested to us that we should do that, as well as the various comfort blockers and stuff like that. 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:07.360 So, yeah, that was something that was suggested to us, and we thought, well, okay, you know, you know, at the time, you know, there's real big concerns with motion sickness. 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.680 Not so much anymore, it seems, right? 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:11.839 No one really talks about it at all. 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.600 And so we certainly didn't experience any of that in ultra. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.319 And we didn't even put arcade settings in the sequel, right? 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.600 Right, we couldn't. 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:20.800 It was impossible. 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:25.600 Like you wouldn't be able to play the game at all, wouldn't be able to complete anything if we put it arcades. 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:30.720 You can't dog fight when you can't actually do any maneuvers. 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:41.519 So bringing dog fighting into Ultra Wings 2, was that something that was always on the plan, or did you get that feedback from Ultra Wings 1 and people saying, hey, we would we'd love to be able to like shoot down other planes and things like that? 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:48.000 Like how much of Ultra Wings 2's development was driven from feedback from one versus stuff you already had in mind? 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.600 Yeah, that was a natural evolution. 00:07:51.839 --> 00:08:01.199 It's funny because the very first demo that we created, playable demo that we showed Meta, because we partnered we partnered with them again a bit on the second one. 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.360 But so we and they and they were like, you know, we want to see a a a playable demo. 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:12.720 So we we we spent time and the very first thing we did was the ultralight and using the grenade pistol. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:21.360 And we had an we had the the Hawaii Island built, and we demoed firing on a convoy with the grenade pistol and the ultralight. 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:24.560 And we were like, oh my gosh, this is crazy, right? 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:26.560 You'd never do this in real life, ever. 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.360 But the grenade pistols don't even exist, you know. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:36.080 And and it was a dog fighting, though, took a long time to get right. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.279 Um I remember that. 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.000 It took a long time, I mean like a year. 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:43.759 Wow, just for that one feature for dog fighting, yeah. 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:50.159 It took a long time to get the AI feeling, you know, worth the the that was fun and engaging. 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:51.759 Okay. 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.639 And then going into the remasters that just happened here in 2026. 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:18.559 My first question when you sent me this info was I just thought back to when Quest 3 first launched, that was 2023, and there were over well over 100 games that did uh quote unquote Quest 3 updates, you know, sometimes as simple as like a bump in the Reddit resolution, and then some developers went back, you know, reconfigured textures, you know, put in like 4K textures or 2K textures or whatever. 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.559 Like Saints and Sanders, I know, added more zombies that could be on screen at any given time. 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:24.720 But that was all you know several years ago. 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.279 So now we're in 2026 with the remakes. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.559 Why did you think it was the right time uh to put these out? 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:42.639 You know, I we I mean, I was we were in the middle of doing a game that we we put out uh a while ago. 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:44.639 Well, not a while ago, last year. 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:54.240 We were in the middle of development of that and and diverting attention to to you know anything else wasn't possible. 00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:03.039 So when that came out and and really kind of I mean it just wasn't very good. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:22.559 It just wasn't very good, and I mean it was okay for a certain crowd and for a certain audience, but it just the core loop suffered, and and I basically sold that off, and I decided to just trying to figure out what I want to do next. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:35.759 And I got a I I signed a deal with the company for a next for another game, and while that was sort of spinning up, I just said, you know what? 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.679 I have a hunch. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:51.360 I think I can get Ultra Wings one working on the quest three, the PC VR version working on the quest three, and and use some tricks up my sleeve to get it running. 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.799 And I just didn't want to port it and not do any improvements. 00:10:55.039 --> 00:11:09.039 So I went above and beyond and went, you know, new skyboxes, new music, uh, added in the photo stuff, added in the life, added new achievements, added a hunt like a collection system mechanic to the game that you only is accessible in free flight. 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:16.159 And and uh just and new water and just to see if it could be done. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:24.320 Okay, and it did and then the sequel in tandem or actually simultaneously, I was poking around on that. 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:36.799 I've been working on this for a while, and so I was like, well, you know, for Ultra Rings 2, I love it, I love the game, but I always had

problems with the static skyboxes. 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:42.399 It just kind of bugged me that I never saw any variety in anything. 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:48.159 There was, you know, there's different time of days, but you know, they didn't change, they didn't, you know. 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.399 And so I just I went off and explored that. 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:58.000 And then I just was like, well, I wonder if I could do this, I wonder if I could do that, I wonder if I could do this, I wonder if I could do that. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:58.720 Yeah. 00:11:59.200 --> 00:11:59.600 Yep. 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:01.919 That's how it all sort of materialized. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:02.399 All right. 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:03.679 We'll come at that in just a second. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.480 I just want to make sure I don't miss a couple of the questions in chat. 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:07.919 One, I'll pull it up here now. 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:14.399 You don't have to give like exact numbers, uh, but free sky 542 as what sale figures were like on quest. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:19.200 If you just had like a ratio, do you know if you have like a ratio of like quest to PC VR numbers? 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:25.360 Because no, you said when the first came out that it didn't light the world on fire until it got to the game and the go and the quest. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:26.879 Is that what this question is about? 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:28.720 Like, what's the difference for the first game? 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:30.480 Like, yeah, for the first game. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:30.960 Sure. 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:32.080 Yeah, first game. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:32.480 We'll see. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:46.799 Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, the the difference is is one made seven figures, and the PC VR version, I think, made you know, a low six figures. 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.039 Okay, that's good. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:49.919 That's that's sufficient. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.799 That hopefully she'll give you an idea of of where we landed there. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.440 Excellent. 00:12:53.679 --> 00:13:01.519 And the seven figures, and and Ultra Wings 2 is made more than Ultra Wings 1, which is pretty rare for actually a sequel on the quest market. 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:08.559 Anyway, I was talking to a friend of mine about that because he said when this came up, a good friend of mine said, Why didn't they just make Ultra Wings 3? 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:14.320 And my response was, I don't know if you noticed this, but three cools have not typically done well in VR. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:16.399 There's a point of diminishing returns there. 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:18.080 And I fired off a couple of examples. 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:23.759 I won't name them here because I don't want to call out those developers, but just just reading T Lee's and looking at review counts and things like that. 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:28.799 There's the deeper you get into

a franchise, like you start having people drop off. 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:30.720 Just natural attrition. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:45.360 I I also think that it it tends to I'm of the mindset when doing sequels and and games in the franchise, continuing the franchise, there has to be a reason to do one, right? 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:50.480 It can't just be, well, I just want you know new environments or I just want a couple of new aircraft. 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.480 It's got to be a fundamental reason to come back to it. 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:56.960 And Ultra Brinks is not about story, right? 00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.559 It's not about like characters that you know and love and you want to see them continue. 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.360 There's got to be other reasons for why you want to come back. 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:06.799 I mean, the delta between the first and the second one is large, it's huge, right? 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:17.840 Because we added combat, we had a helicopter, we added, you know, for quest, we added the full open world uh on a quest on quest two, which had never been done before, that sort of scale. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:23.519 So the third one, what do we what do we bring that's new to the table? 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.480 Right, right. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:26.960 That's like yeah. 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.679 I mean, that's we have what we have to ask ourselves. 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:32.559 What do we bring new to the table that will get people to buy it? 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:40.879 That will make it feel it's not just a 1.5 or a 2.5, that it is truly a new product that you want to sink your teeth into. 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:52.399 Yeah, I love that because that that feels like a creative decision, more so than this game did really well, so we should make another one because we think the third one will do well. 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.360 And coming from a CEO, that's very refreshing. 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.279 Hopefully that made sense. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.120 This is getting into some industry stuff. 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.639 I want to make sure I don't miss it. 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.600 Chat scrolls by, so I'll put this question up now. 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:05.200 Come up just a minute. 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.480 Uh love Dalton Wings on my PlayStation VR 1. 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.919 Do you think PlayStation VR two has not been supported properly by Sony? 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.279 Uh a we'll reference to we just talked on the VR download. 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:24.879 If you go back and listen to that with David and Kyle, there was a whole section, like a good 20 to 30 minute section, about PlayStation VR two winding down as Sony has removed it from the website for sale. 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:25.360 Yeah. 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.759 So don't get yourself in trouble, but you know. 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.000 This guy, this guy is is is knows my history, has to be. 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:32.559 Okay. 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:44.879 He is baiting me with I I've not I've not I've gotten in trouble by by some of my comments from from some hardware manufacturers. 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:51.440 I, you know, I I don't I don't have any uh you know allegiance or or ties to Sony. 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.559 I I knew so I'll just say this. 00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:13.919 Okay I knew when I knew pretty early on that Sony was was was not gonna support PSVR2 in any meaningful way when when they decided that they were only gonna you know launch one sort of exclusive VR game, right? 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.399 Let's not count Grand Turismo because it's it's a mode. 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:17.759 It's it's a PSI, right? 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:18.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:31.679 So I knew when that one game, the launch title came out, and they were not having to do any more, not to mention that they were not going to support a lot of developers with deals, that I just had a feeling that that that the writing was on the wall. 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.000 Actions speak way louder than words. 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.559 And I think it's a shame. 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.320 I think it's great hardware. 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.080 I love PSVR2. 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:52.080 We ported the game, we ported Ultra Beans 2 on our own dime to PSVR2 because we thought that there's a market for that, and we you know more than tripled, quadrupled our money back. 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.200 So I'm I have no no regrets there. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:20.079 But I think if you release hardware and and you and you you have a plethora of IP to pull from that wouldn't even take crazy budgets to make and and you you you trickle out exclusive content that gets people buying your product, you you have to do that to support a hardware platform. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.119 Yeah, you have to do that. 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:30.400 And VR is a hardware platform, it's not you know and and they don't, they didn't and and I I I begged them. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.279 I wanted to make a uh Colony Wars game. 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.240 If you remember Colony Wars on the PS uh PlayStation 1. 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.680 Yes, yeah. 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:40.960 I have I have history making space combat games. 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:49.680 I mean, we made a cockpit game, which is not that far of a stretch from from doing a comp, you know, they wouldn't they didn't give me the time of day, basically told me to fuck off. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:50.640 Excuse my language. 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:51.759 You're fine. 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.279 You say it's free game here. 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.039 I'll give you a nice necklace for the game. 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.240 I mean they didn't say that in those words, but uh, but uh you know, basically they did. 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.799 Yeah, you know, we're not interested in talking

to you about doing anything like that. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.119 I'm like, you guys are you guys are fucking crazy. 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.319 I will say this. 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.920 You were not, I've talked to multiple developers on the record, off the record. 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:12.559 We'll name them who the ones off the record are, of course, but you're not the first person I've heard that from. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.799 You're probably not the tenth I've heard that from. 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:15.920 I've heard that quite often. 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:17.279 I was very disappointed. 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:17.839 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.640 A nice message here from Sub Ultra Wings 2 is amazing. 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:21.680 Just want to make sure you saw that. 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:22.400 He's a big one. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.000 Just want to make sure you saw that. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:32.480 So let's get more specifically into the remasters, and I'll put some the trailers up for both games back to back as we talk through this. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.480 So we'll start with Ultra Wings 1. 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:44.640 Just walk me through, in your own words, kind of like your elevator sales pitch, what is different in the Ultra Wings 1 remaster version versus the original that's still available for sale. 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.440 So I want to talk, I want to talk apples to apples. 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:55.200 Uh let's talk the difference between the quest version of Ultra Wings and the Quest III version of Ultra Wings, right? 00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:00.720 The quest version of Ultra Wings, we the world was not open to the players. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.799 We couldn't do it at the time. 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:11.759 It was we had to remake all of the islands and we had to make do a lot of corners to cut and things to trim. 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.960 And so the world was just one island at a time. 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:20.799 You loaded in one island at a time, and then you could spawn to another island, and that's how you sort of progressed in the world. 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:27.279 For this, I wanted to see if I could get the whole world in, like we did with the PCBR version, right? 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:29.599 The other thing is the assets. 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.559 I wanted to use the PCBR version's assets. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.319 Another thing you could see in the trailer is shadows, real-time lighting. 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:37.200 Right away. 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.400 So right away. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:39.759 Yep. 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:50.319 Uh having having the shadows actually move in the world in real time and and and not be, you know, projector shadows, which is what we did in the in the uh in the first one on the quest version. 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:54.880 The other thing is, you'll see on the the the trailer, is photo mode. 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:55.359 Right? 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:56.559 There you go. 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.440 And then we added to photo mode, we added the ability to zoom in. 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:03.279 We didn't have that in the first one. 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:05.119 In the PC VR version, we didn't have that. 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.759 Photo mode, we didn't even have it at all on Quest. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.799 You couldn't do that. 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:09.359 There's no way. 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:11.920 I mean, you're essentially rendering the world three times. 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.079 Yeah, I wanted to add more life to the world. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:20.319 You saw cow, there's a cow, and there's there's dolphins, and there's yeah, there was a whale jumping there in the water. 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:20.720 Yeah. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:21.359 Yeah. 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.720 New achievements for taking pictures, basically. 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.359 Another thing that I don't show on trailer as you go. 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:27.680 Yeah. 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.119 The other thing that I don't show on the trailer that is really kind of an Easter egg, but it's worth calling out. 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:38.880 It's just a cool little feature, is every photo that you take in the game in free flight. 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:43.599 So you have to be in free flight and you have to be in the ultralight because in the ultralight, you you grab the tablet. 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.319 You can grab the tablet. 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:48.559 In the other planes, the tablet is permanently attached to your to your aircraft. 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:49.599 You can't grab it. 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:54.079 But in free flight, in the ultralight, if you grab the tablet, you can take pictures. 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.279 It turns into a camera mode, similar to this. 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.440 This is a uh what you saw there. 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.640 And then every picture you take will save to your device. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:10.960 And not only will it save to your device, it actually puts a little postcard overlay over it, showing what island you were at. 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.599 And so I just thought it's a neat little thing to do, yeah. 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.319 To put in, just as a, you know. 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:27.279 And in the in the relaxed game like that, when you know, because two has dog fighting, but one is much more relaxed, you know, you can find the rings and things like that. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.559 Like it made sense to, I want to kind of document this thing I'm doing here. 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.160 So that made sense. 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:39.119 Yeah, it's just a you know, it's just a little thing that's you know, little Easter egg kind of thing. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:39.680 It's cool. 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:41.759 It's really it's really little, it's really cool. 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:42.799

It's like postcards, you know. 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.119 You can send and then you can share the postcards on social media. 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:46.799 I don't know if anybody will do it. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:47.680 I like it. 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.519 It's a feature for me, really. 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:54.640 Someone do it, someone buy the game and do it just so it just to make sure and make sure your tax are comfortable on it. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.160 I mean, the games on it. 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:56.799 Yeah. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:03.039 And then we added the balloon hunt, which is a uh which is like To find these golden balloons that are spawning the world, right? 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.119 In free flight, and and basically you have to pop them and you earn achievements to that. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.079 And it's just a neat little side thing that you can do. 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.359 So yeah. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.440 And because this one is quest three exclusive, I want to make sure I have my information correct here. 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:24.000 Because this one is exclusive to the quest three, the original version is still available because that one still works on Quest 2, which I've got there earlier this week. 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.200 Yeah, that's right. 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:25.519 Yeah. 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:26.559 And Quest Pro. 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:27.119 Yeah. 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:29.519 So this will be kind of like a follow-up question. 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:38.160 I don't know if you have an answer for this now, but we just found out recently that Meta's put out some messaging saying that they're going to be pretty much end of life in the Quest 2 and the Quest Pro. 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:44.079 When that happens, do you see yourself retiring the original one, or would you want to keep it up as kind of like a nostalgia piece? 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:45.359 I don't know. 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.839 You want probably TBD. 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:48.400 TBD. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:48.960 I don't know. 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.480 I don't know what I'm going to do. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.240 I don't know what I'm going to do. 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:52.960 Yeah. 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.519 I'll I'll say that it's 14 months out, so you got time to figure that out part of it out. 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:09.359 Between the two, between from Ultra Wings 1 to remastered, and between from 2 to Gold, would you say that one was the bigger leap from one version to the next? 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.160 That's a good question. 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.640 Gosh, is it a bigger leap? 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:29.279 I mean, it is kind of remarkable that we got PC VR version that was not at all optimized for mobile to actually run on a quest 3 at essentially what it feels like 90 frames per second. 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:32.000 There we go. 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.480 It's pretty remarkable. 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:35.839 It feels great. 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:39.920 So so it's it did it's it just depends. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:24:06.079 It yes, but the gold edition has got so many like visual things that we did to it that it almost feels like you want to play through it again, even if you played through it originally, because of of what the new things bring to the table uh of immersiveness and how it really makes it feel like you're in a world, a a living, breathing world, right? 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:06.960 Yeah, right. 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.440 So yeah, yeah, it I don't know. 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:14.480 It's it's they're they're they're they're they're good at for different reasons, you know? 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.039 Yeah. 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:35.200 The reason I asked that is because I remember when I talked to um uh someone from unfortunately non-defunct Proliaric Games, when they did their Quest 3 update for the first Moss game, uh Chris Barassa, who was one of their head designers there, told me straight up to my face that they hadn't updated the first Moss game for Quest, because that was running on the Quest 1 build. 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:36.799 It was a launch title for the Quest 1. 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.920 They hadn't updated anything in that game between Quest 1 to that Quest 3 update. 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:44.160 So they didn't do an uplift for Quest 2. 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:46.240 There was no there was no difference there. 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:53.200 So the reason I asked that question is because I was curious if the game started on the gear in the go in terms of standalone. 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:59.759 So were we still working from up until recently that gear base before you did this new that's what I was at? 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:00.240 Okay. 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:01.200 Yeah. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:06.319 Yeah, this is not from Quest one at all, right? 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:19.200 This is literally the PC VR version brought in, and just you know, I decided to add a bunch of stuff because why not and give reasons, give people reason to buy it. 00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:20.079 Exactly. 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.119 That's why I was asking. 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:28.319 It was, you know, like how just from we're working from that base gear model up to now we got the PC version on Quest 3. 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.079 Yeah, that's a selling point right there. 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:32.240 Yeah, it's a there's it's a huge delta. 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.039 I mean it's a huge delta, it's it's gigantic difference. 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:41.119 Do do a Pepsi taste test, you know, twice to Pepsi and Coke, you know, just compare the two. 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.119 I mean, it's just remarkable difference. 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.799 So funny thing, I'm from Ohio, which is like a very much a Pepsi world. 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.839 I live in Atlanta now. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.799 The Coke

headquarters is like 20 minutes from my house. 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.200 So I had to adjust when I moved down here, and everyone calls it a Coke. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.720 It was it was a massive adjustment. 00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:59.200 I want to talk more about the second game now here. 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:00.880 As I pull up. 00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:01.920 Come on, tablet. 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:02.640 There we go. 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:04.160 I'm just gonna pull out the key art for now. 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:05.680 I'll pull up the the trailer in a minute. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:10.640 So we went through the first one and the changes between the original and this and the remaster. 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.319 So now what if it's between the Ultra Wings 2 and the Gold Edition? 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:14.960 Wow. 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:22.319 So, you know, the the gold edition one, we added, we had it launched a DLC aircraft. 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:28.319 And you can see it, uh, the Kodiak, it's on it's in right there, that purple underneath the the comet. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:28.799 Right there. 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:29.279 Yep. 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.240 So that was a DLC in Ultra Wings 2. 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.720 That's included in the gold and all the content associated with that. 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:38.160 It's just included. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.559 Then the other thing is that I wanted to put in a time of day system. 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:50.000 Now, you know, I I was highly skeptical that this is gonna work. 00:26:50.400 --> 00:27:04.880 I wanted to put in a dynamic sort of cloud system where you could see different cloud types spawn, different weather conditions, which we had in the first one, which we had in the second one, but I wanted to see how far I could push it to make it look good. 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.799 The time of day system, I'm especially proud. 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:13.599 Well, really, those the weather, I'm especially proud of the time of day. 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:40.960 The being able to to take off at sunrise, to see the sun, you know, arc through the sky, watch it change from morning to noon, to late afternoon, to dusk to night, then to see the moon come out, have moon different phases of the moon, from full moon all the way to a sliver, uh to to to an eclipse, and and then back again. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.559 And to see all in real time, and to see the light maps blend, right? 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.720 I I I I just I I I'm toot my own horn. 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:57.039 I I maybe I'm I'm extremely biased. 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:01.519 But you should what game, what quest game has ever done this? 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:02.880 I can't think of any. 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.200 And it's performant, and it it just looks stunning. 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.759 I find it to be, I just sit there and I'm like, I can't believe that this is actually working. 00:28:11.839 -->

00:28:19.200 And and then to get the clouds working, the clouds, you know, they look pretty darn good. 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:23.599 And they move, and they're not just static, right? 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:37.119 And then to see, you know, this the storm system or the storm conditions and the lightning streak across the sky, and you hear the the thunder, you hear those that sound effects, you see the raindrops on your canopy. 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.839 It looks like raindrops on your canopy. 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:54.079 Yeah, we were talking offline before we started the interview, before we started this whole stream, and I told you, I was racking my brain as I was playing it, and the whole day-night cycle happened. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:01.279 One, I kind of lost track of time because when that happens in headset, it's different than like I use Ancarina Time as an example because that remake comes out tomorrow. 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:07.200 We're running across Hyrule Field, and then the cycle goes from day to night, but I'm staring at the monitor, so I don't really feel it. 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:09.359 It was different when it happened in VR. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:18.640 And I was racking my brain, and you pointed out that you're pretty you're the first game that's done it, because I couldn't think of another game that would transition without a scene load in between. 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:19.039 Right. 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.400 So, you know, you would get on like a boat, like Saints and Center is a good example of this. 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:28.319 You might get on a boat at dusk, and then when you land at whatever city you're going to for the second game, it's nightfall. 00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.519 Like it's completely dark. 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:36.480 But there's a scene load there where you can like there's a seamless, it's not a seamless like transition as you're actually in motion. 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.000 So I'm flying in Ultra in Gold Edition, and I'm flying around. 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.799 I'm doing free flight, which is my thing because I stink at dog fighting. 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.799 For those who don't know, I tried it multiple times. 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:45.759 I tried to record it. 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.480 It is hysterically funny because I can't hit anything. 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:49.759 I can't hit the bras out of the barn. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:50.319 It's terrible. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:58.079 So I was just doing free flight, free flight and going around, and the day cycle changed, and I went, how long have I been in this? 00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:02.319 Because that made me immediately think, you know, where's my circadian rhythm at? 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.599 Like I didn't know how much time I've been there. 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:13.359 It'd only been a few minutes, but it made me stop and pause and check how long I'd been free flying, which I think was like maybe seven minutes or so when it happened, if I'm not mistaken, something like that. 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:15.680 And it was just a really, really cool feeling. 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:20.160 So the fact that you got that working, I thought was a massive selling point. 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:28.559 You know, I look, you know, this is you can free to free to try the gold edition. 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:33.839 I mean, and and just I dare, I mean, how could you not be impressed with that? 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:34.720 I I don't know. 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.960 I I I find it to be again, I'm I'm I'm incredibly biased, I know, but it's just holy crap. 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.440 And and I I mean, I I say that the rain system, I bring that up. 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.759 I I look and the clouds. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:53.039 I went through probably six iterations of the clouds before I was happy with the look that I found. 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:59.680 The rain, equally, I probably went through a half dozen rain before I got a system that I was very comfortable with. 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:08.799 To see the rain on the canopy slide based on you know should be up in just a second, so you can talk to some of the things. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:09.680 Here we go. 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:20.799 You can, you know, it's it's yeah, it's kind of it's subtle, but they refract the drops, refract on the glass on quest three, right? 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.799 I mean, what the hell? 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.960 Yeah, you know, watch watch them them look at that. 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:34.319 They bead and move naturally, as how raindrops would would work on a fast moving plane. 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:35.039 Yeah. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:43.359 Coming from the gear, like coming from the gear to get something like this working had to be like a like a fist pump moment when it happens, right? 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:44.079 Yeah. 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:45.599 Yeah. 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:53.359 I mean I've been this for 12 years now that you've been working in this industry and just seeing all different technology changes, just knowing that you accomplished something like that. 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:54.720 On standalone. 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:56.240 On standalone. 00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:57.440 Look at this. 00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.920 I'm, you know, this is this is happening in real time. 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.839 It's time-lapse, but you know, that's during the game. 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:15.119 Yeah, to anyone who hasn't played the gold edition, if you get a chance to do it, like I did play it myself before this interview, it really is a very surreal experience when it happens. 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:20.319 It just gives the game and not me, because I could not hit that plane. 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:22.400 That was not happening. 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.480 This was this was captured on quest. 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:29.039 I know that some people capture stuff on on

PC. 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:30.319 This was not. 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.119 This was entirely taken on Quest. 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:40.000 And you could tell some images are kind of a little blurrier than others, but it it was entirely recorded on Quest. 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.839 I did not like, you know, you know, I didn't do anything fancy. 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:50.799 It's just me, you know, recording and and and yeah, getting it, you know, doing doing my thing. 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.039 Get to some questions here in chat. 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.319 Uh because they're asking some very specific dev questions here. 00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:58.079 I think that's bar. 00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.039 We're gonna go bar. 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:04.559 Uh bar wants to know if you would like to hear about engine and tools use development challenges and things like that. 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:09.279 Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's it's Unity, latest version of Unity, Unity 6. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.079 Incredibly more performant than the previous versions. 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.359 That's one of the reasons why we we were able to do what we did. 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.160 Development challenges, honestly, it the the biggest challenge was iteration. 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:22.240 You know, the game is largely done, right? 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.680 I mean, it's it's done. 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:33.039 So but going back and like getting the look and getting something performant, it was crucial for me to get something performant. 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:39.680 And and we did release an update a couple months ago, and it was, you know, I I thought it was performant enough. 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:40.640 It was not. 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.799 People were very unhappy with it. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:51.839 So we pulled it, we went back to the drawing board and and made something that was, you know, extremely performant, right? 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.680 And last is super nerdy. 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.240 Sorry, go ahead. 00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:14.320 No, no, it was just super critical for me to really try to get something performant in and having a time of day system where you know it didn't it didn't require, you know, some sort of fade or or or you know a transition sequence or hard stutter. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.800 And and I'm not saying it's it's 100% perfect, but it's damn near close. 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.480 It's damn near close. 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:22.239 I was just playing it earlier. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:22.559 Go ahead. 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.000 I see in the dev question. 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:29.199 When did you switch to was this when you switched over to the universal render pipeline when you started to see? 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:30.480 No, it shipped with URP. 00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:31.679 It shipped with URP. 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:32.400 Okay. 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:35.440 Yeah, we were one of the first games to do it. 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.639 So I think the timeline when two came out. 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:39.920 Yeah. 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.679 So yeah, and and just, you know, iteration, really. 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.119 You should see the early clouds. 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.440 I probably have screenshots of the early clouds that I did. 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:54.480 I mean, they were very abstract looking and very, you know, almost, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say they were painterly. 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.719 They looked weird, they had weird edges. 00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:06.320 It wasn't until you know, we started doing a more procedural element to them that makes it that makes them look kind of wispy and and you know. 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:14.880 We used to have them actually move, like they move now, but what we used to have them is actually morph. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:23.039 So meaning the clouds would actually form and and and and different shapes and all that, but it was way too expensive. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.000 Maybe if there's a platinum version for a future headset, maybe we'll put that back in. 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.440 Yeah. 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.800 And for those who don't know devlingo, when he says expensive, uh, he means computationally. 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.840 So in terms of like overhead from the headset. 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:38.320 Yeah. 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:38.800 Yeah. 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.239 Another question here. 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:42.239 Give it a second to pull up here. 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.519 One of my favorite VR games is Walkabout Minigolf. 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.119 I love how they bring out new courses as it keeps the game fresh and interesting. 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.880 Could Ultra Wings do something similar, i.e., new maps? 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:53.760 Yeah. 00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:57.360 So yes and no. 00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:59.119 Obviously, we could. 00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:06.559 The issue really is that you we would have to you would have to go to a new location in the world. 00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:11.440 What I mean by that is you'd have to go to an entirely new, we couldn't just slot it in. 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:16.400 We did build Ultra Rings 2 with the idea of just putting in new islands. 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.079 There's room for like, I don't know, seven islands in the world, seven additional islands. 00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:27.679 The problem is is that it would run at a slideshow if we did it. 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:36.000 So what you'd have to do is is do a hard load and transition to like an entirely different world, which would feel weird to do one island at a time. 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:36.559 Yeah. 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.400 So it's not in the cards for this one. 00:36:40.480 --> 00:37:00.559 We are hard at work on our next project, but but but but we are experimenting with something else that may allow us to put

in, but it's a different project that may allow us to expand on Ultra Wings to, but it's a different project on the world of that. 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:02.960 Anyway, I don't want to, it's still very, very early. 00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:05.039 I'm still testing out what is possible. 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.760 But okay. 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.239 Well, we'll have you back on when you're ready to talk about them more for sure. 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:08.960 Yeah. 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:14.719 Our producer, James Taccio, my partner in crime on the game side, asked this question. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:20.800 He said, A developer once told me that their favorite part of the game development is finding funny bugs that make everyone laugh. 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:23.360 Any great bugs in this game during development? 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.760 Honestly, no, just er no, because I find bugs annoying. 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:51.440 Well, it's not really, you know, a lot of this, it's a lot of, you know, like in Saints or one, I mean, there was a lot of physics stuff that was that was entertaining and fun, and and and and we put a whole mode in the game based on uh on a bug that we discovered with with with physics, insurance fraud. 00:37:51.679 --> 00:38:03.840 Anyway, I digress, but but I can't think of any off the top of my head, you know, stuff spawning in the world is interesting, you know, or or like if you crash, you would see, you know, especially multiplayer. 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.960 If you crash, you could see other people in the in the crash sequence. 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:08.000 That was weird. 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.679 Yeah, spawning outside the map is you know, a common thing. 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:17.840 One one other cool thing I'll say about gold, sorry, it has nothing to do with this, but I want to bring this up. 00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:22.320 So we we added ambient life, more ambient life into the world. 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:27.199 So when you you're flying around, you see boats and you see uh cars and stuff like that. 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.280 We added police cars and ambulances that can spawn. 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:42.159 And rarely, when one spawns, they actually trigger their lights, they can trigger their lights, and you'll see the lights in the world, and you'll you'll hear a siren. 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:47.039 And it's just a again, it's like the first time you see it, you're like, what was that? 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.360 There's a police car that's you know, got their lights flashing like going through the world. 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:52.880 It's just a cool little thing. 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:56.880 Anyway, yeah, put the camera back on you. 00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:13.840 The the the other thing is is we we have sailboats in the world, and if you fly slowly by the sailboats, especially on island three, that's where they spawn uh on the Hawaii Island, they float on the water. 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.920 And and I just bring this up because it's just a little little thing. 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:30.239 We weren't you know, we didn't spend a lot of time on the life system, and and and I wanted to spend more on this to make it really feel like again, you're in this world, but they float and and it looks very realistic. 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:36.400 And anyway, I just it's just a little tiny, it's the little tiny details that I'm I'm incredibly proud of. 00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.639 A couple people in chat have asked about a potential steam frame version for this. 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:43.840 Yeah, so I'm working on the PCBR version right now. 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:51.840 I I um I'm highly skeptical on a standalone uh frame version. 00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:01.519 I I don't I don't know if there's value in a standalone frame version versus like just doing a PCBR version and and supporting the frame. 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:03.599 I am working on the PCBR version. 00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:06.880 I'm I'm very I'm very happy with how it's going on. 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:14.000 Uh it's not a straight port, it's an enhanced gold edition. 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.599 I have real-time shadows in the game working. 00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:22.159 They like everything in the world casts shadows and they move. 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:24.480 The shadows move based on the object and all that. 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:26.800 So the cars cast shadow, and it's all real time. 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:28.400 Your plane cast shadows. 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:35.519 I have real waves working, like a real wave system, actually, that that you'll see in the water. 00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.360 It's gonna require a beefier video card for sure. 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:51.599 I'm I'm going, I'm trying to go the extra mile on a PCBR version because we got so much people complaining about oh, it just looks like a port of of Quest of the Quest 2 version, right? 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.280 It's a very common refrain. 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:54.400 I see it all the time. 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:55.119 Yep. 00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:00.480 What people don't realize is actually it's the quest 2 version is actually part of the PCBR version. 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:07.679 We made two different games, two different assets, but you know, they have to share assets or we would never be done. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.079 I mean, it took us four years to make the sequel, so you know, which is a long time, right? 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:13.840 Yeah for a VR game. 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.360 But anyway, yeah, yeah. 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:24.719 One thing that's come up before, too, is because I remember seeing this on your I specifically remember this because I was gonna write it up for for upload, and then I saw a couple days later you pulled it back. 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:31.840 So you announced that there was a Quest 3 update for Ultra Wings, I think it was two that you were shipping,

and then you said you had to pull it back. 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.719 This was I can't remember how long ago, maybe a month or so ago. 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:36.079 Longer than that. 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:37.119 Longer than that, right? 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:39.039 Three, four months ago, yeah. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:42.239 So remember that, and then and now fast forward to the gold edition. 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:46.320 So what went to the decision process behind nixing that quest three version? 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.920 First, nixing the quest three version, and was it like a performance issue or something like that? 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.119 And then two ultimately deciding to go into the gold edition. 00:41:53.440 --> 00:42:10.480 Okay, so yeah, I I I thought that the the amount of time that we put into it and and and wanting to improve upon multiplayer and really enhance that, which we have and continue to do so, including you know, probably gonna add a new mode. 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:20.880 But but I thought, you know, boy, we spent a lot of time and effort and energy on this, you know, it'd be nice to get a little bit of a return on that investment. 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:26.079 And so we pulled the we pulled it not because of that, we pulled it because there was performance problems. 00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.079 Because originally it was just gonna be a quest three update. 00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:37.440 But we got emails saying, well, I can't play with my quest two people, like you know, I can't play with quest two and I'm on quest three and all that. 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:41.519 And you know, I thought about that and I was like, yeah, that kind of sucks. 00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:49.280 And and so we pulled it without actually really realizing that you could, I didn't think about this. 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.320 Someone brought it up, and I said, Yeah, that's a good idea. 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:56.960 But you can actually, you know, go back if you want. 00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:01.679 You you gotta you gotta allow people to do it, but you can go back to sort of the original version if they want to. 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.960 So if they want to play with quest two people, they can they can basically go back, you know, to the original version. 00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:24.320 So with that said, what I did out of the kindness of my heart, and I wanted, you know, I really care about our fans, I really do, is I just released it, the gold edition, as an update to quest the the original version of the game. 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.679 Okay, without the aircraft, the the DLC aircraft. 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.840 That, if you want to buy it, you can buy it through that version, right? 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.280 Just like you would normally. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:43.679 But as a thank you, and I don't want to be accused of being greedy, and that I you know gave something and then pulled it back and took it away. 00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:44.480 Yeah. 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:46.960 So I just did it out of the kindness of my heart. 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:54.320 So you can buy Alter Wings 2, which has the gold edition, or you can buy the gold edition. 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.760 So if you have that, you have to go into the release channel and just switch which one which version of the game you're on. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.400 Correct. 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:09.360 If you buy the original version of the game, you just go into the release channel and select legacy, and you can you can you know have the old version. 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:10.159 There you go. 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:12.239 And that will not be getting any updates. 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:13.360 There you go. 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:14.239 So you want the up. 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:14.960 Yeah. 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:15.679 Yeah. 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:16.719 Sorry. 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.119 There you go. 00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.239 So no worries. 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:19.760 I just know that came up a couple times. 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:21.519 So make sure I got that in. 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:29.119 We're about at the hour here, so I want to kind of wind this down, but I wanted to talk more about the general state of the VR ecosystem. 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:40.960 I went back through all the articles that James and I have written since we both came on full time in February about game studio closures and games being shut down and layoffs, and that number is pretty staggering. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.599 It's in the 30s in terms of the number of articles we've written. 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:55.119 So, one, what's your take on like where your company kind of stands in the VR ecosystem right now in lieu of all these horrible negative things to people that are happening, developers being laid off and things like that? 00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:01.679 And two, where do you see the VR ecosystem as a whole now as opposed to like when you got first got into it? 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:07.199 Well, you know, the market has dramatically changed. 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:08.559 Not just the player base. 00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:10.639 I mean, not I'm really talking about the player base. 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.679 You know, is it possible to make a lot of money in VR? 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:16.320 Yeah. 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:18.800 For a certain type of game right now. 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:21.760 It needs to be free to play. 00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.440 Yes, they're outliers. 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.440 So before someone jumps down, well, I am cat makes a lot of money. 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.599 Yes, there are outliers. 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:34.400 You know, they tend to be always around$14.99, these outliers. 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.519 And you know, I am cat is, you know, is a good VR game. 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.599 And yes, it appeals to a wide variety of people. 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:46.079

Everybody loves pets and everybody loves, you know, being a cat and and doing cat things. 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:48.000 So I get why it's super successful. 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:49.119 I totally get it. 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:56.239 But by and large, if you're not free to play, you're you're buried. 00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:58.639 You're not gonna make a dent. 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.119 That's the market that we're at right now. 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:01.760 Okay. 00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:23.519 So, you know, I you know, Steam Frame comes out, I you know, I like I love Valve that they decided to make another headset, and and you know, they're kind of supporting the VR ecosystem. 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:27.760 But the reality is is that you know, where's the content? 00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.159 Yeah, PCBR games? 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:31.840 Okay, sure. 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:33.519 But where's the where's the con? 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.360 I mean, still the question begs, where's the content? 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:38.800 And and what does it want to be? 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:41.440 I I've said this many times, I still have the criticism. 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.920 I think it's a device that tries to be the jack of all trades and the master of none. 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:48.320 You know, is it a standalone device? 00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:49.760 Well, sure. 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:51.360 Is it sorta? 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:52.960 Yeah, it's standalone. 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:58.800 You can you can stand, you can you, you know, you can install games on a standalone, but it's also a streaming device. 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:01.119 It's weird, it's like competes with each other. 00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:02.559 Like what you know what I'm saying? 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:08.239 Like it's who are people using standalone more than streaming? 00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.480 My hypothesis is that they are not. 00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:14.559 My hypothesis is they're using streaming more than they are using the standalone function. 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.320 I can agree with that, yeah, for sure. 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:16.639 Right? 00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:22.079 Because they're already in the like Valve people Valve fans buy this headset, they're already in the Valve ecosystem. 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.480 They likely have a PC, right? 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:31.679 I you know, how many I I'm curious, how many people have Steam Frame or not Steam Frame, but a Steam Deck and no PC? 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:35.039 My guess is it's very small, yeah. 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.079 Right? 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:37.599 Very small. 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.880 And the console, same thing, right? 00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:48.719 So that I I find those hardware value ads, they're not, you know, and and the steam frame is the same. 00:47:48.800 --> 00:48:03.519 And the reality is, is Valva said publicly uh that that they feel that the user base is going to play flat games, more flat games are gonna be played on Steam Frame than VR. 00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:11.679 So I saw that quote, and I was like, wow, okay, that's saying the quieter part out loud. 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:12.239 Yeah. 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:18.719 So that the and the fact that there's no exclusive games that they've made for it just speaks again, actions speak louder than words. 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:30.480 Yeah, you know, and and and and so that's you know, that's why I'm uh really on the fence about making a a APK or you know, a standalone version. 00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:42.880 And and yeah, the VR industry is is severely hurting because the market has shifted to free-to-play uh, you know, social games, right? 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:48.800 And and and and ones that you know cater to to 14, 15-year-olds. 00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:50.880 And that hasn't changed yet, right? 00:48:51.039 --> 00:49:02.239 My hope is is it will that those 14 and 15-year-olds will will age out of the free-to-play stuff and want to play some more mature content. 00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:12.719 And and and for me, you know, I just look, I I could go and make any number of of games on on flat screen and all that. 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:17.360 But uh, I love Ultra Wings, it's near and dear to my heart, and I want to continue the franchise. 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:25.760 And and it to me, the only way to continue it is on, you know, the VR. 00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:27.760 I don't know if that answers your question. 00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.639 I I I'm I'm I'm no, it does. 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.199 I love making VR games, and I love making flight flight games, and I'm gonna keep doing it until I can't do it anymore. 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:47.119 It it does because this is the kind I can only conjecture about what each dev is thinking, but we've seen multiple developers try to go after what I call alternative revenue streams. 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:51.760 Some of them are pursuing original flat games, some of them ported their games too flat. 00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.920 We're about to get the Arizona Sunshine Flat version. 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:54.159 Yeah. 00:49:54.320 --> 00:50:00.639 There was the Moss games, there was the Alien Resurrection game, not Resurrection, uh Broken Cursion version for Servios. 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:02.239 So they're doing different things. 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:06.320 Uh resolution games just put Demio everywhere, everywhere they could possibly get it. 00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:11.199 And then there are some who are, you know, saying we're gonna stick to what we do best. 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:17.679 Mill scrap the free-to-play game they were working on, and they're working on new premium games. 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.960 So everyone's coming at it from different angles, which is why I ask every developer that question, because I get a different answer every time. 00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:23.840 Yeah. 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:24.480 Yeah.

00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.360 I just I I just want to make Ultramings games. 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:27.840 I really do. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:29.519 I just want to make Ultra Wings games. 00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.880 And and and that's all I that's kind of all I care about right now. 00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:37.039 All right, we're gonna wind down with one last comment. 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:38.639 We'll get you out on this. 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:44.320 Because again, we want uh the bundle to support the devs and looking forward to trying both games on Quest 3. 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:48.639 PS Use the 90% off code for Ultra Wings to Gold Edition, which made the bundle super cheap. 00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:49.599 Thanks, Chris. 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:51.119 You're welcome. 00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:53.679 So yeah, come to our Discord. 00:50:53.760 --> 00:51:01.679 I'm not, you know, our Discord is is discord.gg slash BPG, and there's promo codes and just grab one. 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:07.119 They're limited use, so they'll expire in March, and there's a limited amount of times they can be used. 00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:12.079 And the yeah, you can get the you can get the bund, you can get the game. 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.760 I don't think you can get the game for a lot off. 00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:17.519 It's very cheap. 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:26.000 So yeah, and you're supporting us, and you know, it's uh it's almost a pay what you want type of thing. 00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:32.159 There's three different uh 90% off, 75% off, 50% off. 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:33.760 So codes. 00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:34.559 Yeah. 00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:36.480 All right, I'll get you out of here on this. 00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:41.599 I ask every developer this question What do you play in your spare time when you're not making the game? 00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:43.039 What do you play to unwind? 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:49.679 I am I am I am one achievement away from Platinum Bellatro on the PlayStation 5. 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:52.719 That is an achievement in and of itself. 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:53.840 That's a lot of hours. 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:57.039 Yeah, it's about 4,000 hours so far. 00:51:57.920 --> 00:51:58.400 Jeez. 00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:06.400 Yeah, thank God for the um for the uh the PlayStation, you know, the the streaming device portal. 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:07.840 Thank God for that. 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:10.639 Because that's how I can do it. 00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:12.320 And stay married. 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:13.360 Yeah. 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:15.360 All right. 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.679 That's gonna do it for this first sorry, go ahead. 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:24.639 No, I was just gonna say, but and I'm trying to get that done before November 19th or 18th or whatever. 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.679 Oh, when a certain game is ready to launch. 00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:28.719 A certain game. 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:29.119 Yeah. 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:29.920 Yeah. 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:31.199 All right. 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:33.920 That's gonna do it for this first episode of the VR Spotlight. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.719 Thank you to everyone who tuned in live in chat. 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:41.840 If you're listening to this on any of your preferred podcast uh platform, please leave us comments down below. 00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:43.519 Who would you like to see us have on this series? 00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.960 Any additional questions you have for Christopher, we'll make sure we pass those on. 00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:53.760 And thank you to my producer, James Taccio, who stepped up in the pinch to make sure we had someone behind the scenes keeping everything smooth. 00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:55.119 That's gonna do it for this episode. 00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:57.039 Chris, thank you very, very much for your time. 00:52:57.199 --> 00:52:58.320 I really appreciate it. 00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.039 Thank you. 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.440 And yeah, we'll have you back on when there's uh more to talk.