התמלול המלא של Inside the Default Mode Network | A Different Look at Mental Health with Holly Hawkins

feel 72 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:12.199 like for my specific it allowed me to be probably 73 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.240 outside that or inside that more often than not. 74 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.920 Inside the default mode network. 75 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.759 So default mode network is kind of like, you know, 76 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:24.079 we're daydreaming or just thinking about ourselves, or kind of 77 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.319 replaying the past, or sometimes it's like the scripts that 78 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:33.040 we tell ourselves imagining the future, ruminating about ourselves, and 79 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:38.000 it's often complex. And in this case, what would you 80 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:41.839 say some of your default mode network messaging was to yourself? 81 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:45.399 I think a lot of it was extrinsic, like I 82 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:50.319 was really too conscious about like what everybody else must 83 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:53.120 have been thinking about specific aspects of the game, or 84 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.600 a lot of it was probably I felt like I 85 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.319 probably was characteristic also to my my dad. He was 86 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.240 a lot of our tennis coach, and so I felt 87 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:06.399 like I was always trying to think about what he 88 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.120 would be thinking about with the match. So oftentimes it 89 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.519 was me trying to almost like outthink what he must 90 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:16.560 have been thinking within the match, so rather than just 91 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.480 playing and being in a flow state, it was this 92 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:24.160 constant analysis of probably even deeper, trying to live up 93 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:28.079 to his expectations of what he wanted, and then probably 94 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:30.839 even just for myself, I think a lot of it 95 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:36.279 was just the worry that I wasn't playing up to 96 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.160 my potential. And I see that show up a lot 97 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.319 in my life, different than even in sports. 98 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.279 There's a deeper there's a deeper dialogue to what you 99 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.680 just shared with me, and hopefully we'll scratch at it 100 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.480 today and we might discover it. But there's something a 101 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.319 little deeper, and you can sense it in this default moment. 102 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:56.279 Is so interesting. 103 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:58.399 I'll just talk about the areas of the brain that's 104 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:04.959 involved there. The medio prefrontal cortex, it's self reflection. It's 105 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.360 like me thinking about me, right, that's that area. The 106 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:13.319 post tier singulate cortex, it's like awareness plus internal narrative. 107 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.959 There's lots of internal narratives, and some of them are 108 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.759 very confident and very good and reassuring and really positive, 109 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.680 and some of those internal narratives can be very very 110 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:29.439 crippling and damaging. I'm not good enough. People hate me. 111 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.839 I hate people. There's a bunch of them. And how 112 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:36.680 we get imprinted on these internal narratives is very complex, 113 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.319 and I think it can happen unbeknownst to us, Like 114 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.839 there's not a deliberate I can't think of any little 115 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.800 kid who decides one day, I'm just going to think 116 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.240 I'm not good enough the rest of my life. But 117 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:53.120 it happens all the time, and it is that internal 118 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:57.600 narrative that's part of that default mode network that can 119 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.439 be so so damaging and so in meshed in the 120 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:05.759 sense of identity that you don't even see it, you 121 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.160 don't even recognize it. So my goal today is to 122 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:12.079 spend some time in this space so we can scratch 123 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.519 out it a little bit. Like consider it. Consider that 124 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.399 there is something deeper in your default mode network that 125 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.040 is giving you a message that is affecting you. It's 126 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.319 affecting all aspects of your life. It's affecting your game 127 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:28.920 of tennis, it's affecting your relationships, it's affecting your mood, 128 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:34.199 it's affecting your ability to handle certain situations. It's profound. 129 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.680 The last one is your angular gyrus of your brain, 130 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:41.279 and it's really in charge of memory plus like meaning 131 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:43.879 and making meaning of your life. So in short, I 132 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:45.959 think these areas of your brain. They work together to 133 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.439 give you a sense of identity. They give you a 134 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:53.720 personal story and an inner dialogue, a sense of identity, 135 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.199 a personal story and an inner dialogue. You can imagine 136 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:02.399 if we get that wrong, right, holy crap. Like I 137 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.759 see a lot of people. I love a lot of 138 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:10.639 beautiful people, and I don't think, including myself, our default 139 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:15.480 mode network is perfect right, And for years I didn't 140 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:18.480 see it in myself. I didn't even know that it

existed. 141 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.120 And as I'm coming to this emotional intelligence space in 142 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.360 my lifetime, I'm forty seven, I should have done this 143 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:29.360 a lot earlier, but it's been it's been lovely to 144 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:33.840 actually question some of those some of that default mode network, 145 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.360 some of the sense of identity, some of the sense 146 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.679 of personal story and inner dialogue. You can imagine how 147 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:45.879 impressionable children are with regard to their default network, and 148 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.000 it can really be really challenging for them to create 149 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:52.720 a healthy default mode network, really tough. 150 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:56.000 Well, And that's where I think people have probably never 151 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.879 heard this terminology before, but I hope that it resonates. 152 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.240 I think as you're speaking I can think of lots 153 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:08.200 of people who maybe don't know what their default network 154 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:10.399 actually is saying to them, but they know it shows up, 155 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:14.759 they know that it's impacting them totally. 156 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:17.039 I want to get into that in a second because 157 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.360 I want to just finish rolling out the details of it, 158 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:21.519 but I really want to circle back on that. 159 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.000 Put it. Let's put a pin in that for now. 160 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.799 But how do you recognize this is the question that 161 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:27.559 you're going to ask me in a minute. How do 162 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:32.120 we recognize when our default mode network is not helpful 163 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:36.799 or when it needs work our inner our sense of identity, 164 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.960 our personal story, and our inner dialogues. How what are 165 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.080 the clues that one might might have in their life 166 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.120 that they need to look at that default mode network 167 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:54.120 with a therapist probably or a close friend or but 168 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.240 you got to get there and look at it and 169 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.799 be willing to kind of like consider that it might 170 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:00.440 not be right. 171 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:04.039 I'll share a couple of things with you later, But okay, 172 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.039 but it's tough. 173 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.120 It's tough, And I want to hear a little bit 174 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.759 about your journey too in this space too, because I 175 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:12.559 think we're all having these emotional journeys and it's beautiful 176 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.320 and these mental health journeys. And it's part of the 177 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:16.759 game of life. It's part of the game of tennis, 178 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:19.960 it's part of the game of pickleball. Having played pickleball 179 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:23.159 with your dad, I could totally see how that would 180 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:23.799 be challenging. 181 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:25.840 And he is so beautiful. 182 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.879 I love that guy, but he can get in his head. Boy, 183 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.200 in his head. I remember one time we were playing 184 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:36.000 and he hit this shot and I'm like, that was 185 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:37.919 the most beautiful shot I've seen in my whole life. 186 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:40.320 And he's like, don't tell me that. And I'm like, what, 187 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:41.840 I just gave you a compliment. 188 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:42.080 Dog. 189 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.240 He's like, no, you put pressure on me to hit 190 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:48.279 that shot again perfectly. And I'm like, I did no 191 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:49.080 such thing. Dog. 192 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:54.120 That's your internal network talking. But it is. 193 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:58.080 It's like, right, it plays so much into everything that 194 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.879 we're doing. Let's talk about what it actually does. So 195 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.039 building your sense of self, like your identity, your beliefs 196 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:06.279 about yourself. 197 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:06.960 Your role in the world. 198 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.679 So that's that's kind of important. You could see how 199 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:14.960 like even like religion can play a role in our 200 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.679 default mode networks. Right, and and to the to if 201 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.960 your religion discussions with parents or whomever is talking to 202 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:27.399 you about this. That can be appropriate or sometimes maybe 203 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:31.480 less appropriate. If there's in like any religion, there's sometimes 204 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.200 a philosophy of more spear guilt and shame driven spirituality. 205 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:37.879 And if that becomes part of your identity and your 206 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.919 beliefs about yourself and your role in the world, holy cow. 207 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.080 Really for generations, that can mess floats up. And so 208 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:51.159 I think being really careful with our the way we 209 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.960 are with ourselves is really really important. How we who 210 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:59.840 we are, you know? And yeah, I think that's super important. 211 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:02.679 I don't know if I want to go into the 212 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:05.919 religion too much, but I just think it is the 213 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.360

scaffolding with which we identify a sense of who we are, 214 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:13.759 these internal narratives. You know, why did I say that? 215 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.200 What if this goes wrong? You know? Or I always 216 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.960 mess this up right? Or I'm a piece of crab 217 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:26.120 or or yeah, or or like I'm not worthy of love. 218 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.120 Like there's all kinds of them. I'll give you a 219 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:32.440 brief example. When I was a little kid, I was 220 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.879 in the Bee reading group. I have a little dyslexia, 221 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.440 and I would read and I'd be so nervous that 222 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:42.000 I was going to mess up. I'd go back. So 223 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.080 my reading was never fluid. It was choppy. I would 224 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.919 pause awkwardly sometimes because I was going back and making 225 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.919 sure I didn't make a mistake, because sometimes the words 226 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:53.919 are tricky for my brain. And I was put in 227 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.720 the big reading group, and so for years I told 228 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:59.360 myself I wasn't a good reader. Wow, I just it 229 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:03.120 was part of who I became, right And so, man, 230 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.600 it's so easy to fall into some dysfunctional default mode 231 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.840 network stuff. It took me, I think, when I was 232 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.039 I don't know, maybe college, when I finally decided to 233 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:18.120 give that inner dialogue up and to say, maybe I 234 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.039 can challenge that maybe I am a good reader. 235 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:25.399 Maybe it's fine. But that was hard. 236 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.039 It was inner deep work that I don't know how 237 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.399 I did it. 238 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:29.960 I don't know how I was gonna say, what did 239 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:31.120 that look like for you? 240 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.399 I don't know how I even became aware that that 241 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:35.600 was a thing. I just I knew that I didn't 242 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:37.960 like it. I didn't like the way I felt about 243 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.720 thinking that way. And I was like, I'm going to 244 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.399 challenge that. How to challenge that It runs these internal 245 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.639 and I think it also links us to like our 246 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.200 past and our future. So it like our autobiography and 247 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:55.559 kind of like crafting who we where we've come from, 248 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:57.879 who we can potentially be as well. 249 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:00.879 I don't know. I think I and the access to. 250 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.799 And awareness about our default

mode networks are probably one 251 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.080 of the most important things we can establish in this 252 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.799 life to enact change in ourselves, like real. 253 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:17.519 Change, and to really identify what's going on below the surface. 254 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.320 I think that's the conversation that we were having before. 255 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:25.080 This conversation was just understanding that we might think we're 256 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.039 in charge of a lot of our lives, but there's 257 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.120 this whole deeper section of our brain that is actually 258 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.480 making decisions about what we believe about ourselves, and now 259 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.320 that will show up in lots of different ways. I think. 260 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.000 I was just listening to a podcast last night about 261 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.480 the psychology of sales and the fact that the first 262 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.879 thing that they will teach salespeople is how to get 263 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:48.240 out of these narratives that they've taught themselves. And I 264 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:53.759 think that you can find a lot more heartache than 265 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.399 you're expecting when you start to go through these deeper 266 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.279 thoughts and start to really identify how that's shown up 267 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.080 in your life and how long you've been believing these 268 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:08.279 really sad things about yourself, and I think some people 269 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.919 do it more successfully than others. Some are able to 270 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.759 identify those and move forward. But I've also seen lots 271 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.000 of people in my life, I think, especially in your 272 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.279 early twenties, when you're trying to figure out who you 273 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.799 are and how you connect to the world. I don't 274 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.720 think the world we live in necessarily helps people to 275 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.120 get out of those thought processes very well. 276 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:32.320 I think you're totally right on. When we get shown 277 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.919 something impressed upon, we start to believe those things. And 278 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:41.639 how many people are influencing other people right now, there's 279 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:44.919 this whole thing around influencers, right, and so we are 280 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:50.320 very impressionable humans, and we get influenced and then and 281 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:55.799 then we can sometimes get distracted from our hearts and 282 00:15:55.879 --> 00:16:00.840 from who we really are, and then we start. Oh, 283 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.200 I think there's one of the better ways. I like 284 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.399 to describe this as like the book called The Ant 285 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:08.720 and the Elephant, and the ant is the thinker brain. 286 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.600 It's it could be this this default mode network guy 287 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.159 just kind of always telling us this or that or 288 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.120 you know, think this way or consider this, whereas the 289 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.559 elephant is kind of our deeper emotional lumbering center. And 290 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:24.600 right now our society is deep into the ant space, 291 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.039 like we're just always thinking about this and. 292 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.279 That and the other and doing so much doing. 293 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.639 Yeah, and then distracted from our hearts, like really deep 294 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:38.200 soul connections with each other, with our hearts, with ourselves. 295 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.679 We're lacking in those spaces meditation and mindfulness and good 296 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:47.919 sleep and really good patterns for creating really healthy default 297 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.799 mode networks. I think we're sometimes lacking a little bit 298 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.679 in those spaces. Default mode networks are not necessarily bad. 299 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.159 They're super essential to who we are. It's just like 300 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:58.600 the ant and the elephant. The ant's really important, right, 301 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.799 but become overbearing and if it's if it's got the 302 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:07.759 wrong narrative, or it's overactive or it's hyper rigid, then 303 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.720 it can become really damaging and really hurt us and 304 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:16.359 really really affect everything in our lives, every aspect of 305 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:20.640 our relationships, our connections, everything. Like for instance, like depression 306 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:22.759 is like I could have should have would have done 307 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.200 that thing. I should ruminate about it and think about 308 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.920 it a lot, and then anxiety could be like, oh 309 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.759 my gosh, what if this or oh my gosh, what 310 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.920 if that and that default mode network goes to oh 311 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.359 my gosh, what if OCD is like like I just 312 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.400 keep on thinking about the same thing and I can't 313 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.400 get out of it. And and so these default mode networks, 314 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.440 I think they're the source of much of our mental 315 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:52.440 un wellness out there. I think mental health is largely curable. Yes, 316 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.960 I believe that is totally true. Default mode network working 317 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:01.680 on that space, the deeper

sense of self and rescripting 318 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.160 it and believing, truly believing something different about yourself the 319 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.880 world others, I think that's the key. 320 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:12.880 So this is where we've talked about of I think 321 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.680 there's so many people searching for that and using different 322 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:20.200 techniques to try and find that. I think therapy people 323 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.880 try and go to therapy and they're seeking this answer 324 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.559 of I want to heal the inner child, I want 325 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.640 to let go of these beliefs that I've had about 326 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.160 myself for so long. And I think everyone always says, 327 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.000 with the right therapist, you can get there, but I 328 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:40.200 think there's often a lack of the right therapist accessible 329 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.160 to most people. So I know we've had that conversation 330 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.279 of what to do, how to start, Like where do 331 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.079 you go to be able to start accessing these things 332 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.559 because there's gonna be people who are listening or like 333 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.960 this is me, But where do they go next? 334 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:55.640 That's so true. 335 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.720 I think everybody wants to kind of look at this 336 00:18:57.799 --> 00:18:59.640 space and work on it, and even the therapists want 337 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:01.680 to get there and help. You kind of see that 338 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:06.200 in this we're speaking directly to people's default mode networks 339 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.960 because it's really just like pre you know, it's just 340 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.599 like our brain cells, just like, let's talk to our 341 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.160 brains and try to fix our brains. Where I think 342 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:16.960 what we would like to try to do is get 343 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.480 out of our heads, get out of the way with 344 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:25.039 our default mode networks, and really connect with our hearts 345 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.079 and really allow that to be a little bit stronger 346 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.119 force in our lives. But if you've got a dysfunctional 347 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:38.039 default mode network that's creating all this dysregulation, emotional dysregulation, 348 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:43.400 autonomic disregulation, man, it can be really tough. And the 349 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.960 default mode network is so deeply ingrained into who we 350 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.799 believe we are it's hard to challenge that. What do 351 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.279 you mean, I'm a good dad. I definitely need to 352 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.279 line out my kids all the time. Where there's actually 353 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.640 some that happened to you a long time ago that 354 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.920 made you have an overbearing sense of that A little 355 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.400 bit of concern for your children's great But man, you're overbearing. 356 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:18.519 It's too much. Why let's scratch it that you're disproportionately 357 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:23.680 angry right now, let's consider why. I think the way 358 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:26.160 to challenge our default mode network. So you ask, like, 359 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.839 how do we know if we're off in our default 360 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.200 mode network? I think some of it could be the 361 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.960 way that we regulate emotionally. If you find yourself consistently 362 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:45.640 emotionally disregulated, overly anxious, overly depressed, overly angry, overly triggered, 363 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.240 there's something in your default mode network that you need 364 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.640 to look at. And it's not readily apparent. It's not like, oh, 365 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.240 I know what it is. No, you have no idea 366 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.279 because it's so it is you. You believe this with 367 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.359 your full being, and so did really get there and 368 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.920 really disentangle that? Man? 369 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.640 That's tough. That's tough. 370 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.039 And I will say the medicines that we prescribe in 371 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.079 healthcare right now largely don't do it. 372 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:16.079 They don't. 373 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.960 What the medicines do is they help you regulate a 374 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.880 little bit your emotions. So they treat a symptom, that's 375 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.720 all they're doing. They're not getting you to the source 376 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:32.240 of that dysregulation. So you got to work with a 377 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.359 therapist and do other tools. So for more than a 378 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.279 year and a half we've done psychedelic therapy in my 379 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:44.400 office with ketamine and it really helps disconnect that default 380 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.640 mode network. So now you're out of your head completely. 381 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:49.519 And then when you come. 382 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.079 Back, there's a sense of I've loosened up a little 383 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.880 bit and maybe I can consider that there's Nope, can't. 384 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.400 And then you do another session, right, and then you're like, oh, 385 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.519 that was so liberating to be free from my very 386 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:10.200 negative default mode network my brain that tells me I'm 387 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:15.079 not enough

consistently. Really, it's so nice to be like 388 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.799 disassociated from that. I wonder if I can believe something different. 389 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:19.680 It Nope, I can't. 390 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:22.920 So you do another session, but you're at least starting 391 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.160 to question the default network. You're at least starting to 392 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.559 consider there's a possibility, but there's a different way to 393 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:35.200 see yourself, the world, God, your relationships, and it might 394 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.480 be a little bit healthier. 395 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:38.240 Do you have an example for us? 396 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.039 So I've actually done kenymine at our office and it's 397 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.680 I didn't know that by the way, Yeah you're speaking this. 398 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:50.039 I'm like, yeah, it's bringing back this experience and I 399 00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:54.000 feel like for me, I remember the last session that 400 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:57.039 I did, it was so interesting the Kedymine process of 401 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.240 just I feel like I want to have such a 402 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:05.440 tight grip on my reality, and being under the influence 403 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.079 of Ketymine, it was a big eye opener that I 404 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:11.559 really just try and hold so tightly to everything, whether 405 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.359 that's people or experiences or mainly just control, Like I 406 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.400 really just like to feel like I'm in control. So 407 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:23.359 the experience of ketamine was the inability to keep that 408 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.720 control and now see things from a different perspective and 409 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.880 kind of understand that there's room for me to release 410 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.119 and have it be okay. But I feel like mainly 411 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.079 in the last session that I did made the most 412 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:39.039 effect on me now when I was able to kind 413 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.160 of integrate that more into just how I think about things, 414 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:48.079 probably affecting some of that natural process of thought inside. 415 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.880 And it was mainly this realization that I am lacking 416 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.680 vulnerability to love, that it's actually very difficult for me 417 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:04.279 to express and feel and accept love unconditionally. For me, 418 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.680 a lot of it was conditioned, whether for myself or 419 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:10.559 even for other people, that when I was in that 420 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.519 space of being able to not see things from my 421 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.799 own perspective every single time, like I had while doing 422 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.599 a Kedymine session, it was this big realization that I 423 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.319 had all these beliefs about love that really weren't true 424 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.839 and weren't serving me. And so I remember coming out 425 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.440 of it and just feeling so much love for myself 426 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.160 and for others, and specifically I think people in my 427 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.480 life that I had probably made assumptions about in terms 428 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.279 of love and receiving their love, that I wanted to 429 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:47.000 almost just call everybody and just tell them that I 430 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:50.079 was grateful for them and that I loved them. And 431 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.440 I feel like I previously had no idea that that 432 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:57.559 was it. Like I believed myself to be a pretty 433 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.279 free flowing, loving person, and so it was interesting for 434 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.920 me to have a whole new framework of what that 435 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:05.799 would even be. Like, I had no idea that you 436 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.880 could feel that much love for people because I had 437 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.640 never experienced it before. But Kenymine kind of created that 438 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.279 space for me to understand that what I believed wasn't 439 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.720 necessarily what was actually happening in my life. 440 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:22.359 That is so cool, and thank you for sharing some 441 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.559 personal stuff I would I asked, can I ask you 442 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.640 what were some of those inner dialogues around love that 443 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.759 you challenged? 444 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:33.359 Are you willing to show them? 445 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.880 Yeah? That might be personally, I'm happy to I feel 446 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:39.039 like a lot of it was. 447 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:39.200 So. 448 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.559 I grew up in a pretty big family. There was 449 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:44.559 eight of us. I'm the second oldest, and I felt 450 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:50.319 like for me, very early on, I was seeking I think, 451 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:52.839 just more love and attention. I was a pretty sensitive 452 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.119 kid growing up, and so I was. I became really 453 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:02.480 good at knowing when people's attention and love was being given, 454 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:08.720 and I feel like I became really sensitive to seeking 455 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.680 that out and trying my best to obtain that that 456 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.920 I created this almost mentality that I needed to earn 457 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:22.279 love or I needed to almost be somebody respectable to 458 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.039 have people admire and

give me attention and love me. 459 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.440 You had to be good enough, ye see exactly. 460 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:34.440 There were contingencies or conditions. 461 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.640 Which is a good thing, but I think too much 462 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.720 of a good thing can become a bad thing. I 463 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:43.200 took a lot of responsibility for taking care of my siblings, 464 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.680 and I felt a lot of pride, and that was 465 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.599 mainly where people would then vocalize like, oh wow, you're 466 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.519 really good at helping your mom with the little ones. 467 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.240 And I think that just became ingrained in me of 468 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.240 oh okay, like people notice when you care and when 469 00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:00.720 you serve and when you try and take care of 470 00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.359 And so I created this inner dialogue that to be 471 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:08.720 loved was to be selfless or to take care of others, 472 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.640 and it grated have it on my life for a 473 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.519 long time. I remember having just a lot of difficulty 474 00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.359 when I moved outside of my home and now was 475 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.279 navigating a space where I didn't readily have little people 476 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.079 to just take care of and feel good about. And instead, 477 00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.400 I remember my high school years when you're not necessarily 478 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.240 in a place to take care of others, that I 479 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.880 felt really conflicted inside of, like how do you know? 480 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:38.960 How do you know if people like you if you 481 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.839 can't take care of them? And I feel like even 482 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.680 now that I'm married, and that was many years ago 483 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.799 that I decided that against myself, I find that showing 484 00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:54.400 up now where my default is to try and do 485 00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:57.680 something to be loved rather than just accepting love as 486 00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:58.000 it is. 487 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:01.599 That's so cool, and it's so beautiful that you were 488 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.240 able to start shifting that, but then you see it 489 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:12.160 still permeate your relationship. Yeah, and so so I again, 490 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.799 I think the deep work of moving those tectonic plates 491 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:20.720 is very difficult. I mean, some of these the default 492 00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.359 mode network is sometimes considered like the ego, right, Like 493 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:25.880 he's telling me these dialogues and I'm believing them and 494 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.799 it's becoming who

I am. And if you can dissolve 495 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.319 that or ego death or you know, get rid of that, 496 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.039 get that out of the way, like you did. You 497 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.200 came out of that session like wow, because I have 498 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:42.960 this this break and these these parts of my brain 499 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:47.599 that are in charge of this default mode network. You 500 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.759 didn't think that, but I did. You You now can 501 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.000 have this ego death and this thought that, hey, there's 502 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.799 a new perspective to have here. And the integration that 503 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.720 that that we do with therapy or with family members 504 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.799 or with chaplain in our clinic is really important to 505 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:11.920 continuing the rescripting of that default mode network. Right. 506 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:13.160 So even you telling me. 507 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:18.799 This story is part of your integration to rescripting that 508 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.759 default mode network and it's powerful. So thank you for sharing. Yeah, 509 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.839 and we'll keep working on that, and me too. 510 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.640 I think a common misconception when it comes to I 511 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:31.160 think most fixes with anxiety, maybe even call them fixes, 512 00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:35.039 is this idea that almost once you find the problem, 513 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.240 you'll be able to just fix it with an easy solution. 514 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.000 I think I even sem I thought that about Ketymine, 515 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:43.359 of like, oh, well, once I understand what the problems 516 00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:45.519 are that are creating my mentality to be this way, 517 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.319 I'll just be able to rewrite it. And I mean 518 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:51.119 it's been now a few years since I went through 519 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.640 my Kedymine infusions, and even now, like every day I 520 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.519 have to rethink those And I think that's something that 521 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.240 is a beautiful process that people don't talk about enough, 522 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.880 is that you don't just come out of kenemine, or 523 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.839 you don't just start taking a antidepressants and you're immediately 524 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.200 fixed and these anxieties go away, or these depressive thoughts 525 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:16.200 or the ruminating on negative self beliefs like that doesn't 526 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.480 just disappear. But I think there's beauty to be found 527 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.720 in the journey of that. Particularly from my experience, it's 528 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:28.319 been a challenge to let others in. I can talk 529 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:31.160 to about it with strangers, but deep family members. It's 530 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.839 like a difficulty barrier, but rather than it just being 531 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.839 fixed as soon as I came out of that infusion, 532 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.000 like it's been treatment for me to have to learn 533 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:43.279 to talk about it with those people and to express 534 00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.480 my needs to them. And I think that's a space 535 00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:51.200 that we often don't implement enough. You can't perscribe somebody 536 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:54.160 to go talk to their people in their life. But 537 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:58.079 I think there's kind of this idea of fixing anxiety 538 00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:00.759 when a lot of the time it's a lifelong journey 539 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.920 that we have to continually take steps for and there 540 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.359 will be steps forward and backwards, which I'm sure you've 541 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.000 seen with people in clinic. 542 00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.160 I love that you just mentioned this lifelong journey of 543 00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.359 working on the default mode network. How do we gain 544 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:18.720 access to that? How do we loosen it up? When 545 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.960 we talked about psychedelics as a way to get there, ketamine, 546 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:24.559 and you know, there are others out there that are 547 00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:29.720 not as legal but can definitely loosen up that default 548 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:34.680 mode network less rigid thinking and promote kind of this 549 00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:40.279 capacity for change. I just love the journey and emphasizing 550 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.920 the journey that you just did, where you know it's 551 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:46.039 a beautiful process. It's a hard process and it's definitely 552 00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.839 one that you still struggle with every day. Every day 553 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.279 you recognize, I'm doing that thing again, and and you know, 554 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:57.119 trying to find that deeper part that might need some 555 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.000 healing could take your whole life for you. May not right, 556 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.440 but but you're still working on it and you're still 557 00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.839 aware of it, and I think that's beautiful. There are 558 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.559 natural remedies, natural ways. So this is something that I 559 00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:13.519 wanted to emphasize, natural ways that we can work on 560 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:19.480 our default mode network. Breath work. Breath work temporarily disrupts 561 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:24.319 the default mode network. It creates you're breathing right, you're 562 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:28.039 inhaling exhaling and kind of rapid succession. And

and then 563 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.839 there's there's some there's there's some meditation and some mindfulness 564 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.920 stuff practices involved there, and often it's guided biochemically because 565 00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.640 I'm a nerd as you inhale exhale. There's an equation 566 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:44.160 called the Henderson Hasseboc equation, and it's it's a whole 567 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.079 bunch of log of X y Z blah blah blahs, 568 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:47.960 and then it's and then it's HC three over CO 569 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.200 two and that determines your pH of your blood, your 570 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:56.200 your blood acid base levels. When you're inhaling exhaling, your 571 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.759 CO two is dropping because you're blowing off more CO two, 572 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:01.640 which is the dominator of that equation as you re call, 573 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.000 and then it's increasing your pH. And as your pH 574 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:10.480 increases you become alcoholic. It's respiratory alkalosis, and that can 575 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:13.559 lead to this heightened sense of just you know, you 576 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:15.720 can hallucinate, you can do all kinds stuff on that space. 577 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:18.440 Your lips will tingle, your hands might tingle a little bit. 578 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:21.680 When people hyperventilate, they're trying to regulate their emotions that 579 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.079 are literally your body is saying, well, I need you 580 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.880 to hyperventilate right now because you need to get out 581 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:28.079 of your head because you're stuck up there and your 582 00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:32.400 default mode network needs to be disrupted. Breathwork does that 583 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.599 intentionally and deliberately and combines kind of other practices with that, 584 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.559 and it can be a really beautiful practice to continue 585 00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:44.920 to access that, disrupt it, loosen it up, rethink it. 586 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:50.079 And that's beautiful meditation if you get good at it, 587 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.799 which I don't think many of us really take time 588 00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:55.440 to meditate, but it can be really really beautiful to 589 00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.160 just quiet the default mode network. You get better and 590 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.640 better at just quieting your mind and stilling that those 591 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.359 inner dialogues that are less healthy for us. And then 592 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.840 other things movement. Movement is medicine, rate, sports and music 593 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.039 and different things that kind of get us out of 594 00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.559 our heads and stuff like that is really really good. 595 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:18.400 I want to consider ways that we can create a 596 00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:22.599 healthy default mode network. What are some dialogues that we 597 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:28.320 could consider looking at prescribing to to create a default 598 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.880 mode network that is positive in our lives instead of negative. 599 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:33.079 In our lives. 600 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:33.800 What do you think? 601 00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.760 There's this video that comes to mind of this mom 602 00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:41.480 she every day with her child, she's probably three. While 603 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.519 she's doing her hair, she just repeats these very positive 604 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.559 and loving expressions to her, like you are beautiful, and 605 00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:51.559 then she has her daughter repeat back of like I 606 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.599 am beautiful. And she goes through all sorts of different 607 00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.199 ones from things that I think we think are kind 608 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.559 of cheesy, like saying I am or I'm beautiful, or 609 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.440 I'm strong. But you can see the almost change in 610 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.079 her immediate, like the little girl starts to get excited 611 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:12.760 about just I think there is a lot of power 612 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.639 in the words we say to ourselves, and you can 613 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:18.599 see her start to feel empowered about herself. And she's three, 614 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:20.880 like she doesn't even really have this interaction with the 615 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.199 world yet. I think so often we're almost able to 616 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.519 identify other people's internal dialogue by what they express outwardly. 617 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.920 I think it's almost better to have somebody tell you 618 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.639 the things that might be helpful for you to hear. 619 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.199 I remember you even saying with your family members, like 620 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:41.440 it's easy for you to be able to identify what 621 00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.239 they might need to hear, and telling that to them 622 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.719 and allowing them to have those words first, I think, 623 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.599 heard from somebody else, and then hopefully they eventually start 624 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.400 to say those things to themselves as well. 625 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.880 I love that words of affirmation can't be understated, especially 626 00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:59.760 in small children, as they are so impressionable, and they 627 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.119 start to script that some of those you are beautiful, 628 00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.480 you are enough, You're smart? These are you are? 629 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:07.039 I mean? 630 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.960 Are I am? These are words

of creation in our hearts, 631 00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:15.480 in our default mode networks. They become part of our story, 632 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:18.159 part of who we become, and so I love that 633 00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:22.480 just just really emphasizing the positive parts and even to yourself. 634 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:26.559 I mean, there's there's positive affirmation meditation technique. Right, You're 635 00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.840 like meditating and there's a voice on the meditation app 636 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.480 or whatever, and it's talking to you and just showering 637 00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.960 with these all these words of affirmation, and that's work 638 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.400 that works, right, that works well? 639 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.400 Thank you. Also, like you'll find the ones that hit home, 640 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:42.320 Like somebody will say something and all of a sudden 641 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.519 you feel emotional or you feel depending on your reaction 642 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:48.760 to that. Like people will also feel defensive. Like you 643 00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:52.119 can tell when something almost triggers a little bit of 644 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.239 that inner child work that needs to be done. And 645 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.440 I think that's where you can either choose to just 646 00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.199 brush that off and continue in your same path, like 647 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:02.239 I don't know what that was, but I'm going to 648 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:05.360 ignore it, or those are the moments to really take 649 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.639 a pause and think why did that just affect me 650 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.679 in the way that it did, and be willing to 651 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:14.679 accept that. That's probably the change you're looking for, but 652 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:19.320 it's probably a scary thing to enter into because it's 653 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:20.920 changing what you've always known. 654 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:26.679 There are collective default mode network messagings that happen in 655 00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:32.119 our society, and it does like create a sense of 656 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.960 less than or comparing yourself to others, and it's very 657 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.880 dangerous and it's very scary, and I think we need 658 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:41.440 to be aware that there are those forces at work 659 00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:45.320 in our lives. They're just like you know, showing everything 660 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.280 else is shiny and bright and beautiful, and that means 661 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.440 I guess the message to me is I'm not enough. 662 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.400 I'm not as good as, or as smiley as, or 663 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:55.400 as talented as. 664 00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:57.719 Because I'm saying stussful as yeah, yeah. 665 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.559 All the social media stuff that drives that kind of mentality, 666 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:03.679 and collectively, I love what you said about a parent 667 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:10.000 or even you as a friend. Listening with your heart, meaningful, 668 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:16.440 heartfelt connections create a pathway that you can affect each 669 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.079 other's default mode network. And if you're listening with your 670 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:26.840 heart and you hear and see who that person's default 671 00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:29.239 mode network is beating them up. We don't say it 672 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.760 that way, but we say she's really hard on herself, 673 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.239 and then you speak to that person with the words 674 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.920 of your heart. Hey, I just want you to know 675 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.800 that you're beautiful and you are enough, and you'll always 676 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.400 be my friend. There's no conditions on that. You just 677 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.159 healed part of her default network. You heal the part 678 00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:55.840 of that person that has that dialogue. And I want 679 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.840 to just encourage parents to do this to their children. 680 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.440 As a father, I didn't understand love very well before, 681 00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.800 but as a father, you're given a special opportunity to 682 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:15.880 really create some of these hopeful, positive, good dialogues in 683 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:19.119 your children. And if you're watching and you're paying attention 684 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:23.320 and you're connecting with them, there are moments when I'm like, no, honey, 685 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:27.079 look at me, look at me. I need you to know. 686 00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.880 But as your father, I see you, and I love you, 687 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:34.400 and I want you to know that you're beautiful and 688 00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.639 incredible and smart and strong and you need to know that. 689 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:42.239 And even as I say it, she might look away, 690 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.639 right and I say, honey, I need you back here, 691 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.760 and I need you to know this and I need 692 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:50.480 you to feel it, and not that I need you 693 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:53.760 to believe it. But I'm going to tell you again. 694 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.400 And you can believe me or not, but I'm going 695 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.039 to tell you again. And that is truly speaking deeply 696 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.559 in a soul, a soul way to their default mode 697 00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:06.760 network still up to them to believe it. There may 698 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.920 be something in the way to them believing it, and 699 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.679 that's the deep work that I'm talking about with that

700 00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:18.800 I had to discover even personally figuring out, well, why 701 00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:23.239 why don't I believe that? For years I didn't take compliments. Well, 702 00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:25.920 I just didn't do it. I was like, Nah, that's 703 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:30.360 somebody else. That's like I would evade them. No, that's 704 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.159 somebody else. That's not No, no, no, no, that's that's 705 00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:36.880 not it. I wouldn't just say thank you, that's very kind. 706 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:38.039 I wouldn't. 707 00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:41.599 I wouldn't let it come in right. That is a 708 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:46.639 dysregulated existence. It's it's there's something else in your default 709 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:53.159 mode network. And for me figuring this out, which I 710 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:58.000 only recently did, was a little guy that's believed when 711 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:01.039 I was young because my parents, it's used to fight 712 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:06.519 a lot and talk to me about divorce and abandoned 713 00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:08.320 men and use that again. And it was a mess. 714 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.719 It was just a lot of psychological trauma. I started 715 00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:14.960 to believe and be afraid. I was afraid. I was 716 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.719 afraid of loss, I was afraid of hurt, I was 717 00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:21.280 afraid of I was angry at it. 718 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:21.840 I was. 719 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:28.079 Yeah, just a lot of deep, heavy emotions around my 720 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.880 sense of who I am, and that little guy wasn't 721 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.400 worthy of any of those compliments because I needed to suffer. 722 00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:39.519 I needed to feel those painful moments and stay in 723 00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:44.239 them because it's who I am. And for years I 724 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.840 didn't see it. I didn't even look at it. It 725 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.440 was just who I am. And more recently, in a 726 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:58.480 deeply meditative state, I was able to see that, and 727 00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:02.360 in fact, I wanted to go camping with my family. 728 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:06.440 My family decided to do other things, and I got 729 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.119 very emotionally dysregulated. It's normal for a dad to want 730 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:12.159 to go and hang out with these kids, that's normal stuff. 731 00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:16.079 But to have a total like I didn't blow up. 732 00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:17.880 I just left and went on a walk and I 733 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:19.840 came back and I said, there's something here, babe. 734 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:20.199 I don't. 735 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:24.880 I was just super, super hurt by this ongoing in 736 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:28.719 my home and it's not proportionate to what's appropriate. And 737 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.800 there's something else there and I don't know what it is. 738 00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:33.679 I'm gonna go hunt mushrooms and figure it out. So 739 00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:37.400 here I am deeply meditative. And as I'm hunting mushrooms, 740 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:39.800 you can't be in your head. You're just like feeling 741 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:44.159 and searching and seeking, and so it's a deeply meditative process. 742 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.000 And there's the MDR involved because you're search scanning the ground, 743 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.559 and it's to me, it's it's mental wellness. I think 744 00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:53.920 it's processed of quieting your default mode network. I just 745 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.079 started poking around and saying, what is that? Why is that? 746 00:42:57.800 --> 00:42:59.800 And it was given to me that to know that 747 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.800 it was that little hurt guy over there, right, that 748 00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:10.760 was just reacting to abandonment. He felt abandoned, he felt alone, 749 00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:13.239 and it caused you to emotionally just regulate and maybe 750 00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.480 maybe we need to look at that guy, and maybe 751 00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:20.039 we need to heal that guy. And so I kind 752 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:24.719 of just envisioned that healing process, just like, hey, little Jenny, 753 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:29.320 like you're hurting over there, and you feel unloved and 754 00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:34.880 abandoned and sad and unworthy and all these things and 755 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:38.440 shame and guilt and fear, and let's just feel that 756 00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.119 with some love and light, let's just bring you out 757 00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:45.440 of that mess. And it was this deeply healing event 758 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.280 in my life. And as I came out away from 759 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:53.559 that mountain, my default mode network was so much more appropriate. 760 00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.159 And as I share this story with people, it is 761 00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:02.400 the integration that I need to believe something different, right 762 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:05.039 Like I'm sharing this story with you. It's my heart. 763 00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:08.400 It's something that was hard for me to overcome that 764 00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.960 I looked at and was able to heal. But it's 765 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.800 not done. You really have to rescript the default mode network, 766 00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:20.039 which will take time. But keep working the equation, keep 767 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.599 telling people about it. And so I've told a few 768 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.400 friends and I've talked to my wife about it, and 769 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:30.800 it is changing the way I believe and feel about myself. 770 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:33.679 And

now I can look someone in the eyes when 771 00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:35.960 they say, hey, doc, thank you so much. You're an 772 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.440 amazing doctor, and say hey, thank you for that. I 773 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.599 don't have to look away and feel shame because I'm not. That. 774 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.840 It changes all the little interactions, all the little things, 775 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:51.400 and it's just a beautiful healing journey that we're all on, 776 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:55.880 really on this earth of figuring out what are the 777 00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:59.719 scripts from the default mode network? Yes, but is there 778 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.599 something deeper that we need to heal and start just 779 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.960 in order to start believing something different about that default 780 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:12.519 mode network? And I think that's where the therapists want 781 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.039 people to get. They want them to get there. I 782 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:18.039 don't know that therapy would have been a great venue 783 00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:23.320 for me. I needed to be meditating and breathing and 784 00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:28.320 maybe breath work and therapy, yes, And you know, I 785 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.920 think I don't. I'm a fan of therapy. I think 786 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.719 that's beautiful. Psychotherapy is lovely, helped and healed so many people. 787 00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:40.280 But getting to the root of the reason why we 788 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:43.280 believe that about ourselves, the reason why we've scripted that 789 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:47.360 into our default mode network. That's heavy work. That's the 790 00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:53.079 heavy work I just did. And it's not easy, super easy. 791 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.119 But I'm sure worth it. Like I think there's probably 792 00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.760 people who stand on the edge of the change, and 793 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:06.480 there's almost this sense of staying it's predictable, to stay 794 00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:08.800 in the path you've always known. Like, sure, there's some 795 00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.039 downsides of the way I think right now, but almost 796 00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:13.960 as fear of what could be once you open up 797 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:18.199 that space. How do you feel like it's shown up 798 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:23.039 in like how you feel about yourself now? Like you've 799 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:25.519 mentioned how it has shown up with other people and 800 00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:29.920 giving you compliments, But do you feel like it's changed 801 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.320 even the way that you get up in the morning 802 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:33.599 and you think about your life. 803 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.880 It's incredible. I think healing some of these inner working 804 00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:43.840 spaces that we can't

see. I think that it affects 805 00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:49.199 all aspects of our lives, and they're subtle. It's really subtle. 806 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.239 Like I didn't know that I had any problem. 807 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:52.840 I didn't know. 808 00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:57.239 Yeah, I just had certain patterns in my life, like 809 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.519 I would do a lot of escaping behavior, like whether 810 00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:05.880 it's a game or it's a novel or it's a whatever, 811 00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:09.400 there's lots of escaping patterns that folks use to like 812 00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.119 doom scrolling. There's And I didn't realize that I was 813 00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:17.840 trying to self medicate, right, and because I wasn't happy 814 00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:19.920 with that little guy, because I was part of me 815 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:26.800 and I had to heal it. And now I thought 816 00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:28.239 it was a maturity thing. I'm like, I must be 817 00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.159 so immature, Like why am I still playing these studio 818 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.320 video games? Or why am I still? Why am I 819 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.119 you know? For why am I not present? 820 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:35.360 You know? 821 00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.159 Why am I not connecting meaningfully with those around me 822 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:40.880 as much as I want to? And so yeah, it's 823 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:45.079 it allows me to show up differently and to interact 824 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.519 differently and to connect differently. 825 00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:49.920 And it's beautiful. 826 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.480 It's only had for if I'll let you know, if 827 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:54.800 I can keep it, I feel like I'm there now, 828 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:57.880 But I think it is a maintenance thing. Like you said, 829 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.559 it's a beautiful work to continue to work in these basis, 830 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:01.159 keep it up. 831 00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:02.880 You got to keep working, right because you. 832 00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:04.880 Might have a tendency to fall back into that, right, 833 00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.159 we got to go back and heal it again, right. 834 00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:12.320 Yeah, I think that's what those moments. I think even 835 00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:14.719 you sharing that like they're the moments you feel alive, 836 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.599 like they're the moments that make all of this worthwhile. 837 00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:22.920 Is those times where you can feel things. I think 838 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.920 there's so much culture right now of just moving and 839 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:30.599 action and efficiency that we forget the important thing is feeling, 840 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.800 like feeling connected to our loved ones and feeling joy, 841 00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:37.519 and that takes time, that takes

space to be able 842 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:41.960 to do that, and I think we don't allow that anymore. 843 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.519 We don't allow feeling to happen. And so you taking 844 00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:47.800 time to be in the mountains and be by yourself 845 00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:50.960 and really process some of this has allowed you to 846 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.760 feel in a different way than you did previously, which 847 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:55.960 is what we're all seeking for. 848 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.480 We got to reconnect with our hearts and the elephant, 849 00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:04.480 if you will, and kind of quiet the ant, put 850 00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:08.199 them away for a while and let's just feel and 851 00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.199 let's connect to that space. And I think if you 852 00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:15.199 talk to people who have done like psilocybin or MDMA 853 00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:20.880 or DMT, you know you have folks that are deeply 854 00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:25.079 connecting to those spaces kind of chemically, and it is 855 00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:29.079 like life changing for them. They're like, I didn't know 856 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.079 I could change my default mode network. I didn't know 857 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:37.440 that I could actually stop believing that about myself, and 858 00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:40.519 now that I have, it's like total game change or 859 00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:44.199 the rest of my life, like like significant significant change, 860 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:48.639 like you with the ketemine, with like challenging that and 861 00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:53.559 feeling no, actually like I am worthy of love and 862 00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:56.719 I do want to just express love to other people 863 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:01.719 and it can be without conditions, right and hmm, that's 864 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.920 kind of neat. And then just keep working on continue 865 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:09.519 to believe that, right. Yeah, Holly, thank you so much. 866 00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:12.760 This has been a fun discussion about the default mode network. 867 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:14.800 To our listeners. I hope that you learned some cool 868 00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:18.239 stuff today. I hope that the deep work that we 869 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.880 discussed today you might look at consider if your emotional 870 00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:28.639 emotionally disregulated anxiety, depression, insomnia, frustration, anger, outbursts, Like there's 871 00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:32.039 a whole bunch of emotional disregulated states and then consider 872 00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:37.239 working on it. Look at it, challenge it, write down 873 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.320 your default mode network, What do I think about myself? 874 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:44.239 How are there deep spots that are enmeshed and ingrained? 875 00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:47.400 And who I believe I am That might I might challenge, 876 00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:52.239 I might consider maybe that's not true, and then work 877 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.320 with some folks and do some things to try to 878 00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:56.400 rescript that, because it's not easy. 879 00:50:57.760 --> 00:50:59.800 Holly, thank you, yeah, thanks for having me 880 00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:03.039 Stop