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Welcome to Up Close with Carlos Side.
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Celebrating art, entertainment, and the human spirit.
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Uh Nina Castles, thank you so much for joining us today.
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Thank you.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yes, um, I remember seeing shooting Head the Gabler at the Rose Theatre a few years ago, and was really intrigued that Jeff James and Nina Siegel were collaborating again and subverting another classic text.
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Um, what was your initial reaction to reading the script the first time?
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I think it's really this, I think this adaptation is really interesting because it breaks up the play and makes such direct comparisons to what is happening in our world today.
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It's incredibly confronting.
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Um and I think leaves the audience with no way of escaping, which I think is a really yeah interesting take on like a very well-known Greek tragedy.
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Exactly.
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I mean, Greek drama often feels very epic thematically and dramatically.
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So I was quite intrigued that it would be playing uh in the Minerva rather than the main festival stage.
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Um did you feel like the script read more intimately?
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Well, I think yeah, I think that's a really interesting point because when we think of Greek tragedy, we do think of these epic tales with you know huge emotional scale and such extreme tragic events.
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Um, but I think what this play is doing is reminding us that unfortunately in the world that we live in today, it's not actually that far from us, and there are people living in horrific circumstances.
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So I think actually bringing it into the smaller space reminds us that it's not how do I say this?
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Um this isn't just a show, it's a a comment on our world, and I think actually when it's done intimately, it relates better, that message comes through stronger.
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Does that make any sense?
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Yeah, the impact is more felt, um, it's felt more strong.
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Yeah, and I think as the audience, you can't really hide behind the fact that it's a show, and when the script, when the performance is touching on current events, you as the audience are right here.
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Do you see what I mean?
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Yeah, for sure.
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Um, I feel like at its core, you know, Antigone has always been about you know the clash between state law and divine or familial duty.
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Um in Antigone Exits.
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Um, do you see Antigone as being more of a political dissident or a grieving sister?
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Um, I think she just thinks of herself as a grieving sister doing what she believes is right.
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I don't think she's making these decisions thinking of herself as a martyr or a political activist.
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She's thinking my brother deserves to be buried and I can't live knowing that I haven't done everything in my power to try and make that happen.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, also I feel like Greek tragedy um traditionally, you know, it very much relies on the concept of a chorus.
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And I was wondering in a cast of seven of you, you know, how does that responsibility sort of shift amongst you?
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Yeah, it's interesting because also we're all on stage for the whole show, and it's interesting flicking between your character and the chorus, but it's a beautiful thing sharing the responsibility of a story and feeling held, even if it's a scene between two people, you've got five other active players, and I think it just makes I think it just makes it more exciting.
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Definitely.
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I feel like you know, when we talk about Greek stories as well, you know, we often talk about this idea of catharsis.
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I was wondering, you know, sort of in our modern high-speed doom scrolling world, do you think audiences experience catharsis the same way that the ancient Greeks did?
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I think it's tricky because we receive so much information all the time, so quickly, and we have so much more access to what's going on in the world.
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It's hard as one person to be able to hold all of that whilst living your own life.
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But I think that's kind of the beautiful thing about theatre.
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It allows you to focus on one thing for a certain amount of time, and you can go on that journey, see if it does or doesn't relate to your own life, and just have that sense of focus that I don't know if we get anymore, or like as much of.
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Because even when you're watching TV, you're you've got your phone, you're like scrolling.
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It is like one of those special things.
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Phones are off, everyone's silent, voom, we're just watching this one thing.
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Yeah, it's definitely um something that still feels very special for sure.
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I suppose, as well, you know, there's always been this long lineage of female rage in ancient drama, you know, when you consider figures like Antigone and Hecuba, Medea.
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Um, historically interesting, you know, these women have always been played by men.
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And I was wondering what does it feel like even to be a woman today playing these female characters?
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It's interesting, isn't it?
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Because there are, like you said, there are so many incredible female characters in Greek tragedy, which were all written by men as well, but they are so powerful and defiant and dedicated to their cause.
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I think it's always such a gift with these classical texts to have a chance to get inside the character, especially because these are tales that I grew up with.
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I've always been a fan of classical theatre.
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So yeah, it just feels exciting to get to have a go, basically.
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Yeah, I feel like um classical theatre.
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Um, I love the way that it's being like modernized a lot more as well in recent years.
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And does it still feel like classical theatre to you when you're doing it?
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That's interesting.
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Yeah, I don't know.
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I I feel like this adaptation of Antigone is using the foundations of classical theatre, but it is a real modern adaptation.
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The language is modern, the relationships between the chorus feel really contemporary, but still the size of the emotion and the subject matter that we're exploring feels very Greek.
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Yeah, I suppose in a lot of um Greek tragedy as well, you know, that sense of doom tends to feel quite inevitable as well.
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And um, Antigone is someone I think who knows that her choices will have fatal consequences.
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How challenging is it to keep these things feeling unpredictable and dangerous as well?
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Yeah, it's I think especially with Antigone, she comes to terms with her death very quickly.
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She makes a decision to bury her brother, she knows she's gonna die for it, and that happens within the first 20 minutes of the play.
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And I think actually the real tragedy for her is having to hold up her sister through this and having to watch the heartbreak that she's going through and the grief that she's already experiencing with the death of her brothers and their parents.
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And Antigone is now adding to that.
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I think for me, that is the relationship that feels the most turbulent.
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I think that's the relationship where she doesn't, she doesn't know what her sister's reaction is going to be like.
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She doesn't know how she's gonna take it.
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That's the uncertain thing, I think, in the story.
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I
know that this is also going to be the first time that you'll be performing in Chichester as well.
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Yeah.
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I was wondering, um, had you visited the theatre before and wasn't an exciting prospect, you know, going to Chichester for a few months.
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My friend did a show years ago in the main house, but I've never visited the Minerva.
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I have no idea what it looks like.
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So that's always an exciting prospect.
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And it's nice to travel for jobs and to be able to commit fully and not be distracted by your own environment.
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I guess it's kind of similar to doing like fringe in a way.
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You are just there for that one thing.
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Yeah, it's certainly exciting.
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Um, I I first came across you in Yerma at Guildhall and Oh no way.
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Yeah, I feel like um I feel like that play also feels um very Greek in many ways.
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Um, did you come away from that experience wanting to play very specific characters and tell particular stories too?
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Yeah, Yerma was really special because obviously it was my first third-year show.
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But it was also really scary because I was playing a lead in a way that I hadn't before.
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And the story of Yerma, she is the central character, and you are following her journey throughout the whole entire play.
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But it did definitely continue my love for classical theatre and classical stories.
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And you know, after watching Billy Piper's Yerma, I was kind of obsessed with the play, and this was a more traditional adaptation, but it was yeah, it was it was it was an exciting experience.
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I it was scary, it was scary, but um, I feel very lucky to have been able to play her.
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Yeah, I mean, does it feel different um playing you know at drama school compared to playing other audiences?
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And has that experience felt different for you at all?
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I think it feels different because sometimes at drama school, because they want you to be able to explore all these really incredible texts, you are getting sometimes cast in parts that you wouldn't play, parts that are really like older, older than you.
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Whereas I feel like now, especially because you're auditioning, you kind of get roles that feel like they fit almost.
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But I think being in front of an audience is always nerve-wracking, like no matter the context.
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And to me, the pressure to do a good performance is still the same.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Um, I I also came across a CU in PlayFight not too long ago at Soho Theatre.
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Um, I was wondering what was it like working with Sophie Cox again on that production and you know, forming those like sisterly blob bonds as well in the show.
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Oh, I love play fight.
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I actually saw Sophie recently because the writer Julia has got another show on at Soho Theatre currently called You're So Special.
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So we both went to see that together.
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Um, that was such an amazing experience.
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It was so fun to work on new writing and to work on something that was genuinely so funny and heart-wrenching, and just really captured what it's like to be a teenager and discovering your bodies and pleasure and consent for the first time.
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And me and Sophie were in we were in third year together at school, and it's it's really funny because we weren't particularly close whilst we were at Guild Hall together and then happened to get our first job out of drama school together, and we lived together whilst we were in Edinburgh, and then we went on tour, we also lived together, so it's really special to have got such a lovely friendship from that, and we always talk about how much we'd love to do that play again and how much we miss it.
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It was so, so fun, such a rewarding experience.
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Yeah.
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Did that casting happen by chance or um was it quite intentional that you wanted to find something to do together?
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No, no, no, no.
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We both taped, and then funnily enough, we were sat backstage when we were teching our final show, and she was like, Oh, what are you doing tomorrow?
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And I was like, Oh, I've got this like chemistry read for this play.
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She was like, Oh, same.
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Um I'm just gonna be in Shepherd's Bush.
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I was like, Oh, my chemistry reads in Shepherd's Bush, and then she was like, It's not a play fight, is it?
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And then there it was, and we were both in the same chemistry read the next day, and yeah, we just had no idea.
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And then she found out she got the part, I think a week before I did, and didn't tell me.
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And then I found out I got the part, but neither of us knew if the other person had, so there was just this like weird period of time where we both knew we were doing it, but like neither one of us wanted to break the news just in case.
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But yeah, it was really, really exciting, really fun.
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Yeah,
um, I saw Sophie recently doing Helena in Midsummer Night's Dream, and um I saw you doing Hermia in the bridge production of that as well.
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Um, did you talk to each other about that as well?
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And of course you know Romeo was playing Hermia in that production too.
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So, did you like talk about doing this play at all as well?
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Did you share like experiences?
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Um, it's interesting.
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It's so funny actually.
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At that time when I was playing Hermia, I've had like two friends since do a version of Midsummer.
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Um, so I feel like I've got loads of friends that have played the lovers.
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But every single production is so different, and the brilliant thing about Shakespeare is it gives you the permission to make it your own.
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So I I guess we would talk about our experiences doing the production, but never too much detail about the characters because it kind of feels separate, even though it obviously is the same part, the same play, it still is like your own.
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And I think that's really important, especially because I mean the version that I did was immersive and you know, had people in silks and like yeah, it was brilliant.
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It was bonkers, even the song bonkers was in it, and then my friend did one at The Globe that was really focusing on the darker aspects of Midsummer, you know, the the lovers being torn apart and there being a king that is ruling over this land as dictator.
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Um, yeah, it was like a really interesting adaptation that I'd never seen before.
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So obviously, we were coming to the characters really differently because our aims were to give the audience a completely different experience.
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And then with Sophie's, hers had like a lot of song and music in it, and she was singing in it.
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I guess it's just a really great example of how one show can be adapted and seen in so many different ways.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I was curious as well with Midsummer and with Ballet Shoes, um, the fact that those two productions had like previous lives as well.
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Um, what was like stepping into those worlds?
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And did you feel like you still had a lot of freedom to create your characters and to create something fresh?
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Or did you feel like you were stepping into something that had been existing prior to that?
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Yeah, I think I think with both of them, I I felt like I was stepping into something that had already had a previous life.
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But I was quite lucky that I actually hadn't seen either production, so I was able to just come at it with fresh eyes.
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And with both productions as well, there was only a couple people that had done it twice.
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So there was a lot of new people coming in at it with a fresh energy, new ideas, and the directors championed that, I think, because it's not every day that you get to have a second go at putting on a show.
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Um, so it's a chance for them to be able to work through all of the things that maybe they thought could be better, and then it's a chance for other people to get to explore those characters.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, um Ballet Issues is such a beloved book.
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Uh, it was completely brand new to me personally.
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Um, but were you fairly familiar with the Phosophor Sisters and like with the story as well yourself before going into it too?
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I'd watched the film years ago, but I hadn't quite put two and two together.
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And I read the book once I got the job, but it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't like a story that I'd grown up with in the way that so many other people have.
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Yeah.
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What was it about um your character that you felt like you were able to connect with as well?
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Oh my god, so much.
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I mean, Pauline Fossil is a young girl that wants to be an actor.
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Um, and I remember this specific moment where Katie Rudd, our director, after I do a scene where I've shot a film for the first time, she said, I want you to look out into the audience and just feel like you've made it.
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I was just thinking, my dream as a kid was to perform on the Olivier stage.
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That was my goal since I was a little girl.
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And now I have to look out on the Olivier stage at this audience.
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It was the first time we did it, it was such a crazy experience.
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No acting required.
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It was like I can't be more grateful to have got that opportunity.
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It was amazing and just crazy to look back on like you as a little kid in the audience seeing these performers on stage, and then suddenly you're that performer.
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Yeah.
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So long story short, I could really relate to Pauline.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it was a beautiful, beautiful show.
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Um, it really took me aback in how much I enjoyed it.
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I was wondering as well, you know, given that it was also a sort of feminist piece as well, did it feel quite natural going from play fight into battle issues as well?
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Did you feel like you were sort of channeling the same sort of energies?
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Yeah, it's it's interesting because I think they are both feminist pieces, but play fight is so contemporary.
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And I don't know.
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I just I don't I don't know if I've ever connected the two in that way.
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They both feel like such different pieces.
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And arguably, whenever you have female leads, it's a feminist piece.
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I think ballet shoes is brilliant because you've got these three girls who have been championed to pursue the things that they're passionate about.
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Whereas I think play fight is more about teenage girls exploring their sexuality.
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Um of course, both hugely feminist pieces, but I think it's hitting uh women at different points in their lives.
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But also I think I've been quite lucky with all the characters that I've got to play.
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Um they've all been incredibly headstrong and defiant and able to fight for what they believe in, which is always really nice.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I guess coming back to uh Antigone exits now, would you also consider that to similarly be a feminist piece and um and also similarly like a defiant character too?
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Oh my god, yeah, Antigone is she's a force.
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And also she is, you know, fighting against the king, her uncle, especially because she couldn't be in line for the throne because she's a woman, even though in our day and age she would be the obvious choice.
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And we watch her uh stand in her power, you know, she doesn't back down when she's confronted by Creon, which I think is amazing to watch, but also amazing when you think of how long ago it was that this was written.
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Yeah, that a character like this, a female character like this, could have been written so so long ago.
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Yeah, I think it's just a great reminder of how important it is to have uh powerful, angry women on stage.
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Because also that's the other thing.
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She's not she doesn't care about being likable, she's enraged by what's happened, and she's also incredibly self-righteous and sees the world in a very black and white way, and I think it's really important to be able to have characters that have flaws as well as characters that you can believe in.
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I suppose um it's interesting as well, you know, given that it it was written so long ago, you know, there's been thousands of productions of Antigone since it was first written.
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Why do you think it's still shocking to audiences and why do you think the story keeps on being retold um you know down the millennia?
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I think it's because throughout time there's always been a separation uh from the people in power and uh the society that they're governing.
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And it is kind of heartbreaking in a way when there are stories that have been written thousands of years ago and they're still relevant today, and you think, Jesus, have we uh really not moved on from this?
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But also it is just so inspiring to see a woman so dedicated to her family and really fighting for what she believes in.
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And also this question of uh divine law, I think is also always uh really, really interesting.
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And I think there are endless possibilities when you get a text that is exploring that.
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Yeah, I think it's definitely always exciting when these um shows come back.
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Um, I'm definitely looking forward to it.
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Um I guess just as a last question, um, what are you most looking forward to about being in Chichester?
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:42.480
I think it's always really, really nice working in a theatre where there are multiple productions happening at the same time.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:43.920
I think it's so exciting.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:53.839
Feels like you're back at school again and you get to see like the other classes show, and then afterwards the pub, you're chatting about it.
00:23:54.160 --> 00:24:00.319
I think this is gonna be really fun, and actually, Midsummer is being put on at the same time as Antigone Exit's being put on.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.000
So I'm gonna see Midsummer for the third time this year, which I think is a new record.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:13.119
Um, but yeah, I think like one of the best parts of the job is just meeting new people and seeing new places.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.960
Um, so that's probably what I'm most looking forward to.
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.160
Uh Nina Castles, thank you so much for talking to us today.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.440
No problem.