התמלול המלא של Ellen Thomas: Deconstructing Identity and Power

It's almost like no lessons learned. 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:34.719 So, do you know what I'm saying? 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:36.080 It's quite scary, actually. 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:37.199 It really is. 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:55.680 When we were reading the play in the rehearsal, we we just couldn't believe how it resonated with what was going on today, not just in terms of immigrants and families uh moving around to better themselves and create lives for themselves, not just that, but also the the war situation. 00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:01.919 Yes, it really, really, it totally was a wake-up call for most of us in the rehearsal room. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:02.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:03.039 Absolutely. 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.639 I mean, like the fact that you know so much has also like not changed in that time. 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:07.120 You know, yeah. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:11.039 What do you think that's all like tells us about humanity and like the human condition? 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:20.719 Well, history does say um when it goes left unchecked, challenges left unchecked, it will repeat itself, and that's exactly what is happening. 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:25.039 You know, I find it it can it connects for me also with the Windrush generation. 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:26.400 I'm sure you've heard about them. 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:33.439 Um the Windrush generation, mostly Caribbean people, African and Caribbean people, who were involved in the Second World War. 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.439 They came and they fought for the motherland, the United Kingdom. 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:50.879 And then after the war, many of them settled in the UK, and um 50, 60 years later, they were being told, um, sorry, thank you, but um, can you go back now, please? 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.159 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:03:52.319 --> 00:04:02.400 Um, a lot of them, their children were born in the UK, their grandchildren, they pay tax, all of those, all those things that you expect a good human to do. 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.039 They do, and yet they get treated so badly. 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.599 And I think it's basically it's kind of the same. 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.759 What was happening in Trinidad, the way the Americans treated the Trinidadians. 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.959 Just in fact, in the play, it says, You've been living in our backyard this whole time. 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.480 The audacity of that, it hasn't changed. 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.079 In fact, it's gotten worse. 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:23.360 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:27.360 Iran, I'm surprised um, you know, that Iran isn't thought of us. 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:28.319 That's our backyard. 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:29.920 Straight and foremost, it's ours. 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.519 All of those kind of things. 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:35.439 So again, history left unchecked keeps repeating itself. 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:40.959 And I think that you know, we should we need to just keep a check now and just say, what is it? 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.240 Checks and balances. 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:42.720 Yes. 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:49.519 Um, you know, we as a people, the global majority, will not deal with this anymore. 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.959 I really do believe that. 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.480 You know, we need humanity, it needs to be to reign. 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:55.680 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:57.600 Rather than individuals. 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:16.720 Yeah, I just think that we again, I find resonance with Pearl in when she joins the PNM, the People's National Movement, when she joins that, it awakens this whole political side of her that she didn't know she had. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.079 And it gave her a voice. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:38.319 Suddenly, this woman who's just knuckled down, worked really, really hard, struggled, suffered, and everything else, suddenly joins her um uh decides she's going to vote for the first time, and keeps going to the meetings and meeting like-minded people and realizing that oh my goodness, I have a voice. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:40.160 I can affect change. 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.399 And I think that is hugely powerful. 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:44.000 Hugely powerful, you know. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:44.720 Definitely. 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:53.519 I mean, the play happens, you know, why it's on the precipice of Trinidadian independence, which is so um, which is such an event for the time as well. 00:05:53.680 --> 00:06:02.319 Um, I mean, did you see there were many parallels between you know the custody battle over ALMA and you know the wider geopolitical situation at the time as well? 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:21.600 The the AMA um kind of, yes, because as far as she's concerned, she's like good citizens, she's worked really, really hard for this place, and um she feels that she should be a part of own part of it, if not own it outright. 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:22.560 Absolutely. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.000 I agree with I agree with her on that stuff. 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:36.800 In fact, it's not just a home, it's a business, and she's the one that's actually on the ground doing the dirty work, you know, keeping it going, and so on and so forth. 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:39.920 And whereas Mansion is just screaming off the profits. 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:43.279 That sounds similar to a lot of what's going on. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:45.600 Do you know what I mean? 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:46.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:51.759 I agree with her fighting for Alva totally for sure, and that's what like the title drift with as well. 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:54.959 It's sort of suggestion, something floating, something drifting as well. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:55.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.560 Um, yeah, I mean, like, how would you say that this like

sort of like metaphor applies to you know people of Pearl's generation? 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:01.759 Oh my god. 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:14.480 Um, Pearl's generation, they struggled, they suffered, and Pearl's generation that the people that were if I do good work, if I work really hard, everything will be okay. 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:15.920 Uh no. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.720 Ruby, her daughter, now realizes that as well. 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:22.399 And she's out for herself. 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.680 She's going to take, she's what I call a modern woman in the 50s. 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.600 She's going, she's looking after herself. 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:31.199 She's not giving her all to the country, to the all of that. 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:31.920 No, no, no. 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:33.040 It's me first. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.959 I have to take care of myself first. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:42.079 And so I totally agree with her, you know, and I love that Pearl actually finds her voice in the play. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:51.360 And I hope it resonates with audiences, you know, not just African-Caribbean women, but women, particularly women, and you have a voice, use it. 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.560 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.279 Yes, and people died to get the vote. 00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:05.199 In some countries, people died to give to give vote the suffragettes, the suffragettes, you know, died and suffered to give women a vote. 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.199 And I think that it is um we have a right to actually use that voice. 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:12.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:12.879 Absolutely. 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.480 And it's interesting as well, you know, Powers' relationship with her children, yeah. 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.079 It's quite a fiery relationship with a voice. 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:19.120 Oh, yeah. 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:21.839 That's that's a cultural thing. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.120 That's how you grow up. 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.399 In one of the scenes, she was saying that children were left. 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:43.360 Um I'm from an African background, I'm West African, and um, I was left, and I had some challenges with the play in the scenes where with Diamond, where my body kept thinking that this was my story, and I'm going, no, it isn't. 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.039 This is Pearl's story, this is her trauma, not yours. 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.600 Yours was not like hers, and so on. 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:57.679 You had a grandfather, you were left with a grandfather who really loved you, thought you were the best thing since sliced bread, you know, showed you love and care and so on. 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.879 Pearl wasn't. 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:03.679 She was left with an aunt who beat her mercilessly because that was the norm. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:18.000 You know, children were not um expected to um talk back to parents and so

on, and a slap and a you know, a lash were more frequent than sit down, let's talk about this stuff, you know, so on. 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.399 So um I convinced myself this is not true story, so just get on with play. 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:36.799 Those times were really seriously hard, and it was also a little bit left over from slavery, where people were beaten rather than talked to in a human way if they did something wrong. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:43.360 It was, and that's left over, and it was sad left over, I think, for African-Caribbean communities. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.879 Yeah, that still lingers. 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.039 Yeah, I never thought about the link between slavery and physical punishments. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:55.759 Yeah, yeah, that's what they that's what they knew, and they were just mirroring, you know, and continuing what they knew, you know, and so on. 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:56.960 So yeah. 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:02.720 Yeah, I was interested in um as well, like working with uh Andrea Faj as well on developing that accent. 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:05.440 Of the Trinidadian accent, yeah. 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.000 Yeah, um, how did you begin to sort of like tap into that as well? 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.320 Well, she was very, very helpful. 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:36.000 Um, again, because we're uh in Stratford on Avon, and um the um the people who come to Stratford-on-Avon come to the um the other place and also as well, they there was a moment when I thought that people were, oh, it's a Trinidadian accent, or I'm not going to really understand it. 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:49.200 Rather than this story is powerful and it is really, really clear, even if you don't understand the the accent as much, the story is visibly clear what's going on, and so on. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:11:04.159 And there were times in the beginning, especially the dream previews, where we felt that people were kind of thinking of it as oh, I can't, I it's too the accent is too difficult for me to understand, and I was struggling a little bit, and all the rest of it. 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:13.440 Um, so again, Andrea helped us with that in that please can the accent not be quite so strongly Trinidadian, at least not here. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:38.399 And um, she led us into ways, certain words which will give you the Trinidadian feel and accent and um and love of language because they love their language, they love they they love how they um how they construe their language, which I totally love as well, which Martina has mastered totally. 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:48.559 Um one of my favorite lines in the play is where Pearl says, I had was to make sure and take for myself what you owe me. 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:55.039 You know, in other words, she could have just said, I just took what was mine, what was legally mine, because I'd worked for it anyway. 00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:01.279 No, she has to

go into this wonderful description of I had was to. 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:02.879 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:04.480 I loved all that about the play. 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:09.120 Yeah, I mean it's just a it's so clever when you're able to capture the essence of these characters, for sure. 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.960 And the true daddients will come to see it and love that because that is exactly the goal. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.720 Yes, that's how my aunties all talk, yes, that's how my grandmother and mother talk. 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.600 They never say things as simply as you know, ABC. 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.480 They they they uh they enjoy it, I think. 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:30.080 They they add flower to it, they make it all flowery and lyrical and all that, which is again a love for language. 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:31.360 Yeah, love that definitely. 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.879 I feel like Justin Audebert is such an exciting director as well at the moment. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.559 You know, he's very much taken Chichester into a new direction as well out there, too. 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:40.480 Um, yeah, what was it like working with him? 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.320 And you know, you have like particular objectives in mind for what you wanted to achieve with the play. 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:51.840 Um well he he went to Trinidad and we were like, okay, thanks for taking us with you to do some research, of course. 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:57.039 Um, yeah, it was an exploration both for him and for us in the same time. 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:03.919 And once Martina came on board in terms of cultural expert, the play just took on a life of its own. 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.480 It became really vivid and alive for all of us. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:09.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:15.840 Because she could tell you where the story comes from, um, the people who were involved, some of it personal, some of it not. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:26.080 The history, she'll tell you about the history of what that happened there, and the history of Calypso and the Calypsoans who put um politics in the music to get to the people. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.480 She told us, oh, it was wonderful, wonderful. 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:29.919 The rehearsal process was good. 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:31.120 Really, really good, yeah, yeah. 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.960 I can imagine exploring. 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:34.799 I can imagine. 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:42.559 Um, I remember um you know, a few years ago, you know, you obviously did um the Amen Corner as well, the James Baldwin play, um, during the tricycle era as well. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:43.279 Yes, yes. 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:48.799 Um, I feel like that was also another piece that was very much focused on you know black oppression and the domestic family as well. 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.879 Did you see many sort of like parallels between this play and that

play too? 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:54.879 Um, not as much. 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.440 In terms of Margaret in Amen Corner and Pearl. 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.039 Yes, Margaret was married, Pearl wasn't. 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.440 And I think that's where the similarities stop. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:20.639 But then they also had, and also Margaret didn't give her away her son, and Pearl did, because that was the sort of norm in her community of you know, other members of the family raising your children while you go look for work. 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:33.759 Margaret didn't have that, but in terms of family, strong family ties and bonds, yeah, they are very, very similar, very strong women, hardworking, and also husbands or boyfriends who've let them down. 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.240 So there were similarities in that. 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:45.840 Um, and trying to steer their sons in the right direction, um, give them a way of life that is going to uh help them. 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.279 Yeah, they were similar in that. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.159 Yeah, yes, yeah, but that's about it, I think. 00:14:50.320 --> 00:15:07.120 Also, Pearl, and Pearl is not religious in any way, shape, or form, and Margaret obviously was, is um so which I find interesting from Martina's point of view that she's not really because that period women were super, super religious. 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.440 You know, Sundays was church, and that's it. 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.879 And also, I think if she was religious, she wouldn't have run a drinking club because you know, she wouldn't have done all things. 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.360 She she says to her son, I'm no angel. 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:23.120 And she means I've done some things and you know, lived. 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:35.440 Um, whereas Margaret is completely really, really centered in the church, and all those um things that you have to abide by being uh you know preacher's wife and all of that. 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:40.000 So I think they're different in in um in certain ways. 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:41.279 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.200 Yeah, but two very strong women, two very powerful women. 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.799 Um, and Margaret knew her voice, whereas Pearl found hers much later on. 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:51.840 So yeah, yeah. 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:57.360 Well, you're always sort of drawn to these characters and these strong women who are sort of struggling against the system, too. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.679 Something about them resonates with me. 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:03.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.080 Um, yeah. 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.399 Currently struggling with the situation, the current world situation at the moment. 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:08.799 Yeah. 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.440 Of course. 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:09.919 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.679 Um, it's interesting as well, you know, next year's 40 years since um James Baldwin passed away as well. 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.799 Yeah, it's very fortunate to meet him when he came to see me. 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:19.840 Really? 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.120 What was he like? 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.240 Amazing, amazing, amazing man. 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:25.440 You're one of those people. 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.559 I also had the pleasure and the honor of working with Dr. 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.799 Maya Angelou, Woon of a Rainbow Shaw, which was done at the Omeda. 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:33.840 And Dr. 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.679 Maya Angelou and James Hordon are very good friends. 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.720 So Dr. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.279 Maya Angelou told us all these amazing stories about their friendship and everything else. 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:54.399 And Carlos, I felt so honored and so privileged to be not in their company and listening to these wonderful stories about their lives in America and Dr. 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:57.440 Maya Angelou when she went to Africa as well. 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.000 It was just priceless, priceless. 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.840 I wouldn't change any of it. 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.240 No regrets. 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:04.880 Yeah. 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.279 Yeah. 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:10.960 I mean, both Maya Angelou and James Baldwin, you know, their writing is still so powerful and still so resonant. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:11.279 Yeah. 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.960 Why do you think that's it as well? 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.400 It's a there, it's a lot of it is lived experience. 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:22.240 Um, and from that, it will always resonate with people, um, globally, internationally. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.519 Um, regardless of age and culture, it will resonate. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:28.480 Um, yeah. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.960 And I think that's also what is what is interesting about Pearl. 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:53.200 Um, what is interesting is that this for her, there's a few times when Martina said to me certain things were the reason why she's dealing with Mansion the way she is and what she knows about him, it's a lived experience, which brings a whole other dimension to how you play it and how you approach it. 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.160 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.119 Well, if it's something you've heard of, that's something I've heard of. 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:03.119 Or if it's something you've lived and experienced, it's a completely different um approach to it. 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:03.839 Of course. 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.480 Yeah, yes. 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.279 I feel like the other place is such a it's such a special part of the RSC. 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.079 Um, I love the intimacy here, similar to the kiln as well. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:20.559 Um, do you feel like um the world um that happens you know in the spawn in Trinidad, you

know, the precipice of um independence? 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:27.279 Do you feel like there's a big contrast to Strafford upon Avon, or do you think there are actually more similarities between the outside and the side than we think? 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:32.319 I don't think there's any similarity whatsoever. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:47.599 Um, in terms of um what's happening in Trinidad and what's happening in the UK, I think there's a lot of similarities in terms of people coming to uh people coming to terms with what's really happening and having to find their voice. 00:18:47.759 --> 00:19:01.920 Um things like the digital ID and things like the NHS, um, Palantir being given the contract, people are actually finding their voice now and finally saying, uh no, we're not going to do, you're not going to do this to us. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.279 You know, my health, my data, you're not selling it. 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.079 You know. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:15.039 And when you look into the company that is being sold to, you think, whoa, don't like what I'm digging up and researching about you, and so on. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:23.039 So, um, in terms of that, Trinidad and the UK and Europe basically, um, a lot of similarities. 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:29.920 People are waking up, people are finding their voice and saying, um that you can't you can't do this to us. 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:38.559 You know, so we will be independent, Trinidad, we will be sovereign, UK, you you know, Europe and so on. 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.920 Yeah, lots of similarities. 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:40.799 Yeah, sure. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.319 Um, I love the intimacy of um the other place and the kiln as well. 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.799 Um, are you an actor who likes to look out into the audience? 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.000 Do you like to see people's faces? 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.880 No, no. 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.599 There's a wall there. 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.839 So whatever you're looking at, you're not looking at it then. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.960 You that's a that's a wall. 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:02.480 Maybe there's a window there or something, but there's a fourth wall and it's there, and you are in that space. 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.640 That's also what I love about the kiln and here. 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:22.319 You're in that space, and that is your home, your room, your whatever, and the intimacy or whatever you have in there is in with in that confines of that wall, and the onlookers can make an eavesdrop and be part of it, but that space is yours. 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.759 I love that, really love that. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.160 I love it. 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:30.000 It means that you can get intimate, you can get quiet, you can get you know bold, and it's yeah, yeah, I love that. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:30.880 Yeah, that's wonderful. 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.519 I mean, the last time you had the kiln was, of course, wipe a bowl. 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:39.119 Yes, I mean, that was such a celebration of like West London identity. 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.519 Oh, we enjoyed that so much. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.799 Um, it was a huge success for the kiln in that it was sold out most of the time and they brought it back or went on tour to the USA. 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.799 And um, Zadie Smith, the writer, her first play. 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.759 Um, she's so loved in America. 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.279 Really, really again. 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.680 99% of the um ticket sales were you know sold. 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.359 Yeah, love it, love it. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.480 Yeah, it's amazing. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.480 And of course, I think you've worked with Hindu Luper Singhem on a few occasions now as well. 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.920 Um what is it like you know, working with her when you know what keeps bringing you back together? 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:20.400 I love, I love the way she works, it's very organic, it's very let's try this, let's involve this. 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:30.160 What happens if we okay, it's up to you now, take it for all of those, which actors love that, rather than that restrictive, well, this is the way it's always been done. 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.640 I don't know, let's just explore some things, let's throw the book out the window and just you know, and go for it. 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.119 Indre loves doing that, yeah, and actors love that as well. 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.759 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.160 I guess I'm with the old wife, and what was it about her that sort of attracted you to this character? 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.680 Oh, very much. 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:56.880 Oh, I loved that I had to play, not had, I love that I got to play three very, very different characters. 00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.519 Um, and one of the best compliments I got was. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:11.200 Um somebody just came up to me after the show and said, I think you're brilliant because you did three different characters and I saw three different people who were like, Thank you, and walked off. 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:14.079 Okay. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.720 That was nice. 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.960 Yeah, I really did enjoy that. 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:30.559 Um, each time I came on as a three different characters, I wanted people to actually see those three different characters and not, you know, well the one that was before as well. 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.240 So yeah, yeah, love that. 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.039 Of course. 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.319 Um, as we mentioned earlier as well, there is so much sort of geopolitical tension um at the moment, you know. 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.200 We saw you know the rise of performance at local council elections. 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.359 Like there was recently also the United Kingdom march as well in London. 00:22:45.599

--> 00:22:46.000 Yes, yeah. 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.480 Um, you know, are you worried about society? 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.960 You know, do you feel like plays like Driftwood can you know help society heal and bring people together? 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:54.960 Oh gosh, I hope so. 00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:03.680 That's some of the things that we hope that the play will resonate with people, um, particularly families, because it's a huge family play. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.319 Um excuse me. 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:22.640 Um I'm hoping that people take away that the situation with Pearl and also with Ruby, with your children, with not just your children, but with your children, your family, talk to each other. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:32.079 Um secrets kind of don't work because uh sooner or later the cat will come out of the bag. 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:41.119 So I'm really hoping that people can find a place where they can it can resonate with them in that they go away and talk about it and say, you know, this has been bothering me. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.079 I've wanted to talk to you about it, and I have not been able to. 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.799 And you know that situation that happens in the play. 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.559 I feel I felt that happened, and I need to resolve that. 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.519 I need to look at that and unpack it. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.799 Um, I'm really hoping that people can go away and think about that. 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.839 Um, and also the finding your voice thing. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.279 Um, I'm going to vote. 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:12.480 I've never voted before because I didn't believe in the political um situation, but now it is a voice that I have and I can affect change. 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.680 I'm going to do that. 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.839 Those are some of the things that I really hope that people can take away from the play. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.880 Um come away thinking that, yeah, I I can do that. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.759 Yeah, if she can do that, I can do that. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.880 Do you know what I'm saying? 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:40.000 And young women, Ruby, I just hope that it resonates with them in that, you know, look after yourself, take care of yourself, um, don't sacrifice yourself for the world and everything else. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:40.480 No. 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:46.000 And I remember the one most wonderful quotes, um, and I live by it. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:55.039 Um, Oprah Winfrey, my Angelou, Ian Levan Sant all talk about is the make sure your cup is full and running over. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.079 Um, fill yourself up first, and what runs over is what you give to others. 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.799 You cannot for you cannot give from an empty cup or an empty place. 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.279 So I totally live by that. 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:13.680 So I'm hoping that people also take that away from this in that you know, um, fill yourself up first. 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:14.559 Yes, absolutely. 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:16.319 I mean, for you, how do you do that? 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.920 How do you keep yourself filled up? 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:18.960 Um, meditate. 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.000 I'm yoga. 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:21.519 I did my yoga this morning. 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.759 Um, um, I really, really enjoyed it. 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.599 I do that, I do meditate. 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.759 Um, that's one of the ways that I come, I center myself. 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:40.960 Um, I love yoga in that it allows me to stretch my body, you know, um just shift boundaries a little bit, stretch a little bit, breathe a little bit. 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.440 All of those things are really, really important to me. 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:53.839 Um, yeah, self-care is paramount, um, particularly when you're doing something as um powerful as per, you know, the energy and the stamina to go through it. 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.559 Um, yoga, meditation, and just quiet time has really, really helped me. 00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.119 Yeah, yeah. 00:25:59.440 --> 00:25:59.920 Absolutely. 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:05.440 Um, I suppose you know going into London as well, you know, Stratford is a very beautiful, idyllic place. 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.039 Um, how do you expect sort of like audiences in London to be thought? 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.279 We had a little taste of that here. 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:32.400 Um there's a lady, Elaine Grant, who organized a group of women from uh Birmingham and the Midlands, uh, and some from London to come to a matinee um uh performance and um African Caribbean predominantly, and they loved the show. 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:39.920 It's almost like the show came alive on another level because it resonated, a lot of it resonated with them. 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:45.759 Um there were moments when people were doing what they do, what African Caribbeans do when they're at home watching TV. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.759 You talk to the TV, and do that. 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.200 What are you doing? 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.960 We had a little bit of that as well. 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.440 And when there were quotes that they recognized from their childhood, they repeated it. 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.799 So it was just it was wonderful for us. 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:02.799 It was like oxygen for us on stage. 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.359 We were like, yes, this is exactly what we wanted. 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.839 It's reaching them, they're hearing it, they're remembering, yay, we're doing all of that, and we came off on a high that day. 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.759 Um, we met the ladies, um, mostly ladies, we met them afterwards, and they were just they loved it. 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.720 They're gonna spread the word,

they're gonna tell everybody to come and see the show. 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.480 And the Londoners were also saying they're gonna be coming to see it again in London. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.720 So, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:35.039 We're expecting the London, particularly um Trinidadian groups that are gonna come. 00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:41.920 Oh my excellency, this is our country they're talking about, and you know, so that's gonna be fun. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.319 Yeah, we're gonna change the accents, they're gonna get different in London. 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.279 What words? 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.599 Yeah, we're gonna get very Trinity. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:58.720 We're gonna have to get very, very Trinidad in London because the Trinidadians are coming and they want to hear their accent on stage. 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.480 All its you know, beauty and everything else, they want to hear that. 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.359 So we as performers have said that right, that's it. 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:13.039 We're gonna up the ante in terms of the accent once we're in um in kiln in London. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:13.279 Yeah. 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.759 Do you think you'll go to Trinidad as well at some point after the show? 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:22.880 So um, that's touch wood. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:24.319 That would be wonderful. 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:33.440 That would be really, really wonderful for a play about Trinidad that is so so Trinidad um to go to Trinidad and perform there. 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:34.319 They love it. 00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:34.880 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.680 Absolutely. 00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.519 Um, I guess that's the last question. 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.920 Um, yeah, you know, what do you um having done the show for a few weeks now, what are you sort of like learning about yourself through doing this? 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.880 What am I learning about myself? 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.759 Um, I have more stamina than I thought. 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.480 Uh what am I learning about myself? 00:28:54.640 --> 00:29:10.160 Um, you really all the things that I'm always really good at, you know, in terms of responsibility to a character and playing her and loving her and not doing any of the silly things like you know, disapproving of anything about her. 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.359 No, none of that. 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.440 Just digging into her. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.960 And also, I'm loving finding new things. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.440 You know, every performance you find something else. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.240 And of course, I never stop looking at the script. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.640 You keep looking at the script over and over again. 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:31.680 Every day, go back on the script and finding new things, finding new ways to say something, and something somebody says about the character. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:42.559 You think, oh, okay, I'm gonna see if I can look at it this way and respond this way and see how that all those lovely things, the things that I like about how I approach my work. 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:43.839 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.640 Keeps it exciting and keeps it fresh for me as well. 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.799 You know, yeah, so yeah, yeah. 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:49.680 Absolutely. 00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.319 Alan Thomas, thank you so much for talking to us though. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:53.359 Thank you. 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:54.400 Thank you.