התמלול המלא של Choosing Yourself: Leigh Burgess on Breaking Free from Burnout and Embracing Boldness in Daily Life

That was kind of the moment of like no-transcript. Speaker 1: 6:29 I have had a couple of moments of burnout, and the more significant one, I was in denial about that burnout for years. Even afterward, I wasn't willing to admit that I was burnt out, and so I'm curious what you have to share about that topic, or if you have that experience. Speaker 2: 6:48 Well, the fact that I didn't even know I was, even though I was reactive, I wasn't feeling myself. I was extremely exhausted. I was sleeping two hours a night, but I was getting stuff done. I was like you know, like in me, in my like hustle which I don't think is a bad word, but I was definitely hustling, like I was like I was rocking it, but at the cost of something else which was my health, my relationships, my mental health, my emotional health. Like everything was suffering except, potentially, the outcome of something like the getting the work done, something like the getting the work done, but like I probably wasn't very fun to be around. Actually, I know that, right, you know, and I think what people probably couldn't approach me as they'd like to, and I just got to a place where I thought I was actually rocking it, when I was probably rock bottoming this, and I think for me, I didn't see the signs. It 2020. Like that feels like so long ago and if you remember, that was the middle of the beginning of the pandemic. I don't see the signs. It's 2020. Like that feels like so long ago and if you remember, that was the middle of the beginning of the pandemic. Speaker 2: 7:46 I don't know what the heck you call August. But we didn't have a vaccine, we didn't have anything really. You know that we knew was coming, we knew people were working on stuff, but there wasn't a lot of hope and we were working really hard and there was a lot of change every day. So for me it was a very unstable time of like trying to figure out especially because I'm a planner Like if you tell me, ok, the pandemic is going to last six to nine months, is what we need to do? Like, ok, I'm on it, I got it, let's make a plan and let's figure it out. But it was the lack of like not knowing when it was going to end, what was going to happen. Speaker 2: 8:30 That was, I think, hard for me as a planner, a leader, you know, leading a large team. I'm, you know, in healthcare, so trying to help people, you know, particularly in research, get things done. So it was just a space and place that was very unfamiliar for me. But then I just had that bold, brave, courageous moment of like it's got a gift, something has to give, and so that choice was made. And then what was so interesting about that is what happened next. Like, you know, all these ideas I had, or things that were possible became possible, because why couldn't they be? And so I really just started working on myself, healing myself, and then thinking about how I could help others and how I could work the way that I wanted to work versus the way I

had been working, which was really just ridiculous. Speaker 1: 9:08 I want to talk about that moment of when the possibilities opened up. So we're going to put a pin in that. I would like to backtrack to the point of decision. The point of decision because I'm curious also with your idea of being bold, and where does that come into it? I had to take a deep breath with that one. Speaker 2: 9:29 Yeah, it's a very scary decision, right. So it's filled with. For me, it was filled with a lot of fear, meaning I don't think being bold is fearless Some people do and that your definition is personal. So, but mine is really stepping into the fear and doing it anyway and moving through it, knowing that right, left, right, left, keep going, keep moving forward. That's how you're going to learn, that's how you're going to get out of it, that's how you're going to get to the next step, where you're meant to be. Speaker 2: 9:57 For me, it was just kind of a big gulp moment, and one that I made thoughtfully with my family, of what we would need to do and how we would do it and savings we would use, because I bootstrapped my company and so and I'm not a millionaire and in the sense of kind of like just starting off, like I really had to figure it out. Speaker 2: 10:15 We had to figure it out as a family, so just knowing that I had their support to do it and making that decision, and once I made it, it was just this. I say this a lot, but it was so freeing and for me, at 48, to know that anything I wanted to do was a possibility, which it was when I was 47 and 46 and 45. But for some reason, when I became untethered really to my professional corporate stable in air quotes world, I could do anything. And I kind of felt like I was almost, you know, eight or 10 years old again like, oh, everything's possible, you know. And so it was a really interesting feeling of decision and then opportunity, you know, with your normal like ah, do I even know what I'm doing or how do I even do that and where do I start? So just kind of figuring it out. Speaker 1: 11:08 Yeah, there's this gif that I send to people often that where it's a basketball player, I think, and he's screaming, anything is possible. I feel like that's what I'm, out there with this podcast, screaming to people. However, when you bring up such a good point that you can't feel that until you feel that you can't feel the possibilities until you, so it almost requires that we make the decision for ourselves so that we can then feel into the possibility. It's like one thing happened and then the other thing happened, but we think that we're going to feel the possibility first. We think that we're going to, which. I do think that visualization and some of those things is very helpful to us, maybe in walking us across that threshold. But what has helped you? What has helped you on your healing journey? What are some of the things that you have done to support you? Because that decision was really scary. What happened right after you've made that decision? Speaker 2: 12:06 Yeah, so I think of myself as a work in progress, always. So I think I'm still trying to figure me out and evolve, and I even wrote a post about that this morning. Of like success is just a point in time. Like I really think we're evolving and you know, you've heard people say it's the journey, not the destination, but it truly is. I think I want to be better than I was yesterday, that 1% better type of mindset. Speaker 2: 12:33 So for me to heal, I had to first admit like what I was doing was, you know, really not good for me and I had to prioritize myself, which is very, very, very uncomfortable. Three varies there. So like, so I'm sure someone can relate to that. That's listening, very, very uncomfortable. Three varies there. So I'm sure someone can relate to that. That's listening of like, oh, I don't want to actually put myself first, I have to put everybody else first. And we hear the whole oxygen mask, you know story, which is true. But for me, you know, I actually didn't realize I wasn't doing that, like I was totally ignorant, meaning not knowing that I was really pushing myself to a very, very unhealthy place. And I'm smart, I'm driven, you know, like it's not accomplished. Speaker 2: 13:19 Yeah, it's not about degrees after your name. You know this is about like are you listening to the signs, are you heeding the warnings? Are you seeing the yellow flashing light? And it was like Nope, nope, I don't see that light. Nope, it'll, it'll, it'll turn off. Let me restart the car, like whatever, whatever the tips and tricks that you use, like you know, to mute the sound or to turn off the alarm, like I was doing that. Speaker 2: 13:42 And I think what I learned was I had to stop doing that. And for me, I had to recenter myself honestly of like, what did I want to do? Like I had worked a very long time in an industry that can be very challenging and it's a wonderful industry to be in, but it just kind of can push you at speeds and rates and a lot of things that you have to figure out at the top levels, and it can just be very, very hard. I had to think, you know, do I want to go back into that? Because at one point I didn't know if I was going to, and I had to. I knew, too, that I couldn't just jump into creating a business and starting to try to reach out to people, because I felt like that actually wouldn't be one authentic and two wasn't a good decision from a mental health and emotional health perspective, like I had just been through a lot. Speaker 2: 14:32 Like I, burnout is not something that you just flip a switch on and off, and it's something that can revisit you too. So even as an entrepreneur, you can burn yourself out very easily. So like I felt like I was prone to it, so it was something I needed to really understand the signs to it. But what was nice, as I was healing, really understand the science

to it. But what was nice, as I was healing, I was able to be creative, which creates a lot of joy for me of like thinking and you know what's possible and what businesses and what problem am I solving and how can I do it differently and who can I partner with. And those sorts of things were really fun for me to think about because it was a whole new way to think than what I was doing in the corporate world. Speaker 1: 15:12 You're hitting on something so profound because a lot of times in the healing world and people who have been listening to tons of self-development and have been reading books I just showed Lee, right before we started this interview, that my dog ate my homework. He ate the self-development book that I'm currently reading, which maybe I should take as a sign to go read some fiction. But we can really focus on all the things that we need to tinker with and we need to fix and we need to figure out and we need to know and I got to know my next steps and we're always tinkering there and what it sounds like is that you're highlighting and underlining that you began to focus on having some fun and the possibility. What supported you there? Did you naturally go to that space? I'm really curious, yeah. Speaker 2: 16:04 Have fun. Think all the fun had been you know just ah what's the word? Like it just had been sucked out of my life, like I wasn't fun anymore and certainly I wasn't having fun. And by fun I mean you know doing things, spontaneously, laughing. You know spending time with people who I want to spend time with. I mean I was spending 16 hours a day easily at work and you know, in some of it virtual and some of it in person, even though it was the beginning of pandemic, I was in health care, so I still went in. So 16 hour days I was sleeping, maybe two. So you know, you can do the math. It doesn't leave very much time and it doesn't leave time for things that are quality. So I really wanted to get that reset and, for me, have more fun. Speaker 2: 16:52 I mean, some of the things we did was like, wow, we've never gone there before, I haven't seen daylight in a long time. Like you know, I've had vitamin C deficiency most of my career. Honestly, as silly as this sounds, because I'm never outside, I'm always in the office and my doctor can, you know, tell you about it, you know. So I think you know just actually getting outside doing things that are simple but fun and meaningful, and exploring and saying, hey, what do I want to do? Like I thought it was going to be an interior designer. I was like I love to design things, I love to create space that just gives you a hug and it's organic and it's luxurious and it's just all. You know all this, all all the things. Speaker 2: 17:32 And then I learned like I couldn't, you know, like not that I couldn't do it, but I couldn't make a living off of it, you know. So I was like, okay, I really don't have 10 to 15 years to kind of earn my stripes and go through that or, you know, be a designer to the star. Like I just not going to be able to do that. But it was something that then led me to parts of the bold framework that I created. So I have a bold framework called, you know, in the acronym is Believe, own, learn, design and the D is design. And some of the aspects of that particular part of the framework are really around the elements within design, like harmony, balance, structure, white space. So it's kind of cool because I was able to integrate some of that initial thinking of what I could be into what I am and who I am and creating this framework in and of itself. Speaker 1: 18:23 I love that you came back home to your creativity and what it was that you used to love to do because that's what I always walk people through is like what did your seven year old self just freaking love to do and what were those feelings? And you know, like you said, it's like I love being in a in a comfy, luxurious space and being held in that space. Like that then turns around and you start to put that, infuse that into everything that you do. Speaker 2: 18:49 And it's just, it's very authentic and it has and I'm using the word again organic. Because if I think now I'm in year four of my build and evolution of my business and I look back at what I've done, I've created spaces through my bold retreat, through the bold table, through the collective that I've created in a membership. I didn't do it all in a membership, I didn't do it all in year one. I think that's the one thing is just be careful. Speaker 2: 19:14 I see people go so fast and I never want to like shoot someone's dream down. But you can't do everything in year one and you have to really think thoughtfully. You see so many things on social media. Even I get frustrated seeing like, oh, overnight you'll have this and get 800k followers in, you know, three months and yeah, you can get them, but they're not going to be anyone that's ever going to buy from you. That's really you know, want to hear your message and those types of things. So like it just depends on kind of why you're doing what you're doing. But I don't think success has a shortcut and I think that's really, really important. Speaker 1: 19:49 Yeah, and your nervous system? This cannot handle that overnight success in the way that we think it can. You know it's like when that does happen. I think there's a very natural, organic way that growth happens and when we jump from one thing to another too soon without having the right support already built in, and that support kind of organically gets built in as we go through the process of building a business. So I think that's a really important thing to highlight, that it doesn't happen overnight and there's actually a reason for that because you're growing and you're learning and you're changing along the way and gaining those skills. If you're willing, are you willing to walk us through your bold framework? Speaker 2:

20:32 Sure, yeah. So it's really important for folks to know that you can go through it in order. You can go through it once. Usually people go through the whole framework once and then they may come back and revisit certain aspects of it. So with that in mind, it starts off with belief. So belief is really going and taking a deep dive into our beliefs, understanding how our beliefs are helping us or maybe harming us, and where they come from. So a funny story I tell is that when and I believe in coaches and I have a coach and we were going through this when I first started off and I said she's like we're going to talk about shadows and I'm like I don't have any shadows, we can skip this chapter and it was like she would like just pause for a moment and, you know, bless her heart, like she stuck with it, but like we went there and I do have shadows. Obviously everybody has them, that's probably why they're called shadows but I didn't even realize they were there, how they were really potentially embedded in my belief system. That was potentially going to hold me back from being able to go to the next step. I think, as you kind of work through those and figure those out. That might be a place or space you revisit, you know, in the future. Speaker 2: 21:44 Then you get into ownership, which is owning what you should owning, making sure that you're not owning things you should not, which was one of my biggest issues. So I had this mantle of responsibility of everything was my responsibility, and this really came, I think, from how I've grown up and things that have happened in my life. Like I lost my brother very early and I was six, he was 11. So there was a sense of like wanting to make sure everything was okay and safe. And you know I was. I don't, no one ever told me I was, but somehow I became the responsible one to make sure everyone was safe and, you know, no one was going to get hurt. And so I think that kind of manifested into like a whole different, all these different spaces in my life, and so I was always trying to predict and prevent something from going wrong. And when you're doing that like 24-7, that will absolutely wear you out. And so I don't think I realized I was doing as much as I was doing until I kind of put myself through my own framework and then owning the good stuff, like I wasn't doing that enough. Like celebrating the wins, the little wins, the big wins, the medium, all sizes, the good stuff. I wasn't really owning that as much as I should. Speaker 2: 22:53 I think learning was one that I've always been a lifelong learner. I've always had a growth mindset. You know, every now and then you can have a fixed mindset moment, but I kind of you know, the main place I live is in growth mindset, knowing that when I fail, it's not, it doesn't mean I'm done or I'm not good at it, it just means I got to figure something out or I've learned something. So but that's what the L is all about. And then the D is design,

which we talked a little bit about, which has elements and kind of practices around the idea of like the literal design concepts, but it's designing the life that you want to live, that's aligned with your passion and purpose, and that's kind of how you go through it and you can visit different pieces or parts of the framework you know back or you can go through the whole thing again. Speaker 1: 23:38 It's so simple and so powerful. I think that as I listen to you, there are pieces I mean I resonate with the entire thing. I particularly and I'm curious about listeners to my particularly based on an email I sent a few weeks ago and how many responses I got where the title was I'm too fucking responsible. I think that we can all really relate into that ownership space of taking on too much responsibility and making sure that everybody else is okay and not making sure that we are okay, but trying to actually make ourselves feel okay by making everybody else feel okay. It's like okay, if they're all okay, then I'm going to feel okay inside. Speaker 2: 24:31 Yeah, I think I was definitely like I feel like I mastered L, like I was in a good space there, like you know, knowing that failure didn't mean the end, it just meant a beginning of learning. But my beliefs I think I was really not understanding how they were guiding me so heavily. And then my ownership piece was just off the scale in a direction of trying to prevent in the professional workplace, trying to prevent things from going wrong, and like thinking that there was a perfect day. And I never considered myself a perfectionist either, which is something I learned about myself in that coaching session, you know, right after I left, because I was like I felt like perfectionism was a really bad word, like that person was snobby or, you know, thought they were better than somebody else or this or that, but no, like it. Speaker 2: 25:17 Just you think like things can be perfect and like you can prevent things from going wrong, which is really where my perfectionism was really, you know, I think, running me into the ground and in my space. Obviously we're dealing with human beings in healthcare and so like there's a high price to pay for a mistake, and so I had that, I think, mantle of responsibility again on top of me and this is something you know I did to myself. You know that, you know there are, you know there's ways that I think people can lead and understand and, you know, help you, and maybe I didn't have some of those always, but I mean, ultimately I take responsibility for it. I take responsibility for getting to that place or space, because I think that's ownership too, of knowing I kind of got myself here. You know it doesn't mean I got there alone, but I mean no-transcript. Speaker 1: 26:25 When it comes to the belief stuff, I'm curious because you hit on that a little bit in there and it sounds like you have faced some of that. Speaker 1: 26:33 You faced some of the shadows and really saw what was there and picked up the rug and saw all the dust that you've been putting in there and I put under there Stuffing in the closet yeah all of those things what really supported you in belief work, and maybe it's part of your framework and part of what you teach, because I think some of us realize, okay, there are some beliefs here we might have some noticings about. Oh, some of these beliefs are what I might call some of your tethers, Some of those old beliefs. They just need to be cut, you know. But what for you, what really seems to work in the belief space? Speaker 2: 27:12 I think for me, finally, at that point which I was 48, which is also like from a research perspective, in your late 40s, you know, which is where people say you have a midlife crisis or it's actually you are done, being misaligned there's an unhappiness curve that occurs in the late 40s and you're just done so. If you're in that 45 to 50 range and you're feeling like I'm noticing that I'm misaligned, that the flashing caution light's coming on more than normal, or I'm just feeling a pull to do something different, just sit with it, be curious about it, Lean into it, and I think, when I finally got to that place where I made the decision, what I realized which I knew but had forgotten is that it was good to be me. I'm a nice person, I'm a very smart person, I'm kind, like I had like never really, and it is still very difficult, difficult, like. I don't know where it is, though here it is what's on my desk. So this is a journal and I'm supposed to write every day three things I nice about myself. I just want to show you how many things I have read. I started this in January. Two I'm fun, I am kind, honesty, so that what I mean I'm a work in progress, but I just think, like, for me it's like realizing that what I'm doing is making a difference. Speaker 2: 28:37 And for me that was hard when I first started to tell my story or to be vulnerable or to share things on social media, because I just thought we were supposed to be perfect. Share things on social media because I just thought we were supposed to be perfect, we were not to have any blims or blemishes or you know, we weren't supposed to fail and put it out there. We knew we were. Everyone is. I think that's what's so freaking hilarious about some of the things on social media is like everyone's failing but no one's talking about it, you know. So I think for me I had thought that's the way that you were supposed to be successful. I was, you know, kind of not talking about things that don't work. And I think that's the other shift that I had was like it's good to be me and it's okay to talk about when things don't work and it's okay to share that. And I think that led to just people being inspired. I mean that first time someone says to you that you inspire me, it was a responsibility thing for me. Again, I'm like, wow, I better one. Keep going, you know, make

sure I'm really being even more thoughtful than ever. Like it added a level of for me good pressure, because there's good and negative pressure. Speaker 2: 29:46 But for me it was like sharing my story led to someone else feeling like they could maybe try something or get curious, or maybe just make a plan to do something different in the future, which for me that's success. Like just start thinking about, like you were talking about the just do it, like, but you don't know how good it's going to feel until you do it. Or you don't even know what you're going to learn until you do it, you know. So I think it's going to feel until you do it. Or you don't even know what you're going to learn until you do it, you know. So I think it's not always a feel good day too. As an entrepreneur which I think everyone can relate to, that most likely. But is it a feel good every day in a corporate world? I live that. No, so I think just thinking about you know your value and the impact that you can have on others. It really shifted for me when I made that decision the impact that you can have on others. Speaker 1: 30:30 It really shifted for me when I made that decision. That perfectionism is so sneaky. It comes in what you said about okay. Well, somebody said I inspired them, and so then it's like all of a sudden I need to be perfect at inspiring. Speaker 2: 30:40 Yeah, like oh, people are looking. You know people are watching like, oh, my goodness, like I better get my stuff together. I got to get that more honed in, and so I think for me then I had to check myself. At least. I then had kind of the dashboard of indicators for me that I was going to pay attention to, and that was perfectionism was one of them. Responsibility was another. Am I owning this? Am I taking this on when it's not mine, or am I not really owning what's gone well and the wins and the things that are successful, because we sometimes focus so much on what's not working and we don't really get the opportunity to think about what has worked well. Speaker 1: 31:20 There's so much learning. The most beautiful learning can be in looking at what is working and making that shift. Speaker 2: 31:27 Yeah, but we don't do it. I don't know how you do it, but I mean we do weekly wins and it's like once you like every Friday kind of like wrangle them up, you're like, wow, it was a good week. But in my mind I'm like I didn't make those sales, I didn't give that client, I lost that lead. You know, whatever it may be, or I'm behind in X, y or Z, which you can put anything on that list each day. But it's just like flipping the script on what's working and then what you're still working on. It's okay to still be working on something. Everything's not going to be in a bow every Friday. What a relief, yeah, at least in my world. I don't know about you, but at least in my world, everything isn't neat in a bow. Speaker 1: 32:07 No, it never is. There's an acceptance of that, that the world simply is not perfect, and that's actually what makes it a gorgeous place to be, exactly. Yeah, so I'm curious to hear, because both of us have lived in the corporate world and now also in the entrepreneurial world, and there are a lot of things that I look back and I'm like oh. Speaker 1: 32:31 I wish corporate Jen, I wish she had known this. I'm curious for you do you think that the only way for someone to be able to live a big, bold life, that they feel accomplished, that they feel successful, that they've achieved things they want to achieve, is by making a wild move and leaving the job? What's your take on that? Do we need to do something big in order to be bold? Speaker 2: 33:02 No, I think one of the things I write about in the book is that some of my boldest moves are actually the quietest ones. They're not going to be in social media. You may never even know about them, I may never talk about them. I'll just they're mine and you know that could be a thought, that could be something I wrote and shredded, it could be something that's in my journal, it could be a conversation I had with my husband or my daughter or my parents, like those bold moments, like really personal, and they're probably the quietest ones. Speaker 2: 33:33 I think you can make a big bold move, like I did, but I don't advise everyone to quit your job without having a job. I just say that you do need to potentially get to a point where you choose yourself, and it might be scary and you might not know the next step, but you need to do it. If you're telling yourself that you can't do it because of money or because of irresponsibility or X, y or Z, I think you need to check yourself because what's the price if you don't do it? Right, you think about all the things that could happen if you do do it, but what's the price if you don't do it? So that's kind of like led to my big bold decision. Speaker 2: 34:09 But I think, you know, bold's on a continuum and I think it could be just the beginning of thinking about something or having a conversation or writing it down or saying I'm not going to do that again, you know. So I think that comes, you know, with the ownership of like I'm in charge of what happens next in my life. Sometimes we don't feel like we're in charge, which I totally get and can relate to, but you're responsible for your behavior, the way that you're moving about the world, and so realizing that again someone's not going to do it for you is really, really important. So, whether you're making a quiet move or a loud move, they're all bold whether you're making a quiet move or a loud move, they're all bold. Speaker 1: 34:57 What you said about what's the price of if you don't do it, it's so easy for us to hold space for the other side For the cost. Our brain is very capable of telling us all the things that could go wrong. We're really good at seeing the scary things, but the human mind and body and nervous

system is so good. We're so good at seeing that, but how often do we truly hold space for what's the cost of not doing it? And the cost of not doing it is that at the end of your life you look back and you say I didn't choose myself. Speaker 2: 35:24 Right. Speaker 1: 35:24 Which is the number one regret of the day is the number one regret of the day. Speaker 2: 35:31 It's when you think of, like, what if I, you know, do this or continue down this route, of whether it's, you know, I'll just take my working 16 hours Like I was getting a lot done, I was very productive, my team was rocking it, but at a cost, at a cost of my health, their health, you know. You know our outcomes were great, but you know it doesn't mean how you got there was good, Right. So I think you know thinking about that and I think a lot of the times, especially when you're burned out, it is your health, your relationships, your emotional health, your physical health, your mental health that are going to be hit the most in that, you know, in that timeframe, at least for me, that was my experience and again I think it can come back. I mean, last December I had one of those moments, you know, end of year three. Last year was a hard year of like just for a lot of businesses, a lot of clients, and I just, you know, tried to be as understanding as I can and, like you know, things were happening, especially at the end of the year, of things I thought were going to happen, didn't happen or go through, and I had planned, obviously for Q1 of this year for them to be in place, whether it's a new contract or a potential client, a lead, something like that. Speaker 2: 36:35 But I got to a point you know where I was again working easily till 11 o'clock at night and you know, starting it at seven and working till 11. And you know, I was like what am I doing? Like I it just it kind of crept up on me in a way. I thought, but I mean, again, it was one of those moments I think everybody else saw it and I needed to reset. What was nice is I knew how to do it. I knew how to do it quicker than before and when it happened in 2020, and I kind of got reset. So I think it was my first knowledge of like it can come back. You know, like I felt like once you burned out, once that's like one and done, and that's not it. At least for me, that's not what I experienced. I don't know about others and experts in this area, but it easily for me could come back if I let it. Speaker 1: 37:21 Yeah, same. I have burned out multiple times and what I realized is oh, it's because I'm not choosing myself, as you say. And I'm curious for you what are some of the teeny tiny ways right now, if you're willing to share that you have been choosing yourself? What are those little things we talked about, the little celebrations, the little wins, what, for you, is a way of choosing yourself? Speaker 2: 37:46 Yeah, they're going to sound probably very simple and potentially silly, but you

know, for me, like eating lunch is a big deal. Like I could easily just get up in the morning, have water, coffee and then go all the way till five and not eat anything at all. So eating regularly, getting up from my desk and you know whether it's taking the dog for a walk or you know, like we had the solar eclipse this week so I was like, okay, let's, let's go do something fun with that. Like just taking time to get outside and to do something as simple as taking a walk is such a reset for your mental health and you feel good, you know, you feel like you're getting some steps in and getting outside, and so I think that's something that I choose. And then you know picking when I'm going to stop working at the beginning of the day so that it doesn't kind of creep in. And then sometimes I need accountability partners for that, whether it's my husband or or my daughter who is partnering my business of like saying, okay, you said six and it's like 720, like what's going on, you know. Speaker 2: 38:46 So just having some checks and balances in there for me, I think, is really helpful. So you know, getting outside, eating well, eating regularly, and then really choosing when. When is, like you know, it's time to quit for the day, because as an entrepreneur, I feel like I could work 24 hours a day and still be behind. And so I think you know, whether it's ideas I have or things I want to create, just knowing that there is a stop and start time, because you know the engine just can't run that long. If you think about your computer, like, you leave your computer on or you like shut it down, you put it to sleep, you know, think about the buttons on your computer. You know, like I now do the hard shutdown for myself and for the computer each day. Speaker 1: 39:27 Yeah, and to go back to the very beginning, where you said it was when I made that decision and when you left that job, you left a lot of those stressors behind that. All of a sudden you were so much more creative because you had time to look at that possibility. So it's that idea, it sounds like, of implementing that into your actual structure of life. Was I turn it off? And so then that opens up space for you to enjoy and I go back to like I didn't know how to have fun. Speaker 2: 39:57 And then I'm doing it again Like I had you know, like I just didn't know how to have fun. Like, what do you do besides work, because work is fun to me, like I enjoy my job, which is really, you know, not everyone gets to say that I feel very thankful and grateful. I get to say that. But, like, what do I do besides work? And what do you do? And like, thinking about, what are your hobbies? What do you like to do? We're, you know, going to go on vacation. I make sure that we do that regularly too. So I think that's really important. That's not something that you know. Speaker 2: 40:28 We went on vacation when I was in the corporate world, but usually, you know, let's just say, we went for

a week, we loaded up, we went down. I, you know, did the everything I was supposed to do. You know, put your message on that kind of jazz, but I usually read emails till Wednesday. By Wednesday I felt like everything's good, I can disconnect. I'd have to put my phone in a drawer and then I would still check it in the evenings. It was never a disconnect, you know. So I think I don't. That's definitely something I don't do anymore. Speaker 2: 40:57 So I think it's really important to really take time away and time off from your business, even when it's your business, which is really, really hard. Because for me, like I use words like wow, I felt lazy today. I was like whoa, check yourself there, you know. Like you, just it's Saturday and I'm not even kidding, I'm not making this up Like it's like, oh, I felt lazy. I watched basketball last weekend, like okay, it was Sunday, you know. So, like, really thinking about how you're talking to yourself as an entrepreneur and in the corporate world, both, but I think particularly for me, it was more of the entrepreneurial mindset of like aren't I supposed to be doing something right now? You know, is someone getting ahead? Am I going behind? No, like what's happening? So it's kind of a reset of those for me, too, when it comes to choosing myself. Speaker 1: 41:43 The unconscious keeping score of the moments of rest that we took for ourselves is wild. I'm also and a lot of listeners of this podcast too are likely these people where I find myself working too hard, too much and have to implement those stops. My husband was like okay, between 7 pm and 8 pm every night, we are not talking about any kind of work things, we're not looking at our phones, we are simply sitting here and we're having some time together, and it doesn't always have to be I'm taking the entire night off. It can be, and the more time that we get off of working is great, and it can start with between 7 and 8 pm, we turn off our phones and we do give ourselves that space. So there's grace for ourselves as entrepreneurs too, that we're figuring it out along the way. At least that's for me, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about that too because we like to work. Speaker 2: 42:38 That's why we're doing it, yeah exactly, and I want to help people and I want to serve people. I mean I have a servant mentality and so if I'm not answering that text or getting that DM, did I let somebody down? That goes back to me and my ownership. You know, like I got, I'm using my framework daily and so you know from that perspective, but like, if you don't turn that phone off or put that phone down, now my phone when I come down just goes over by the coffee maker and it just stays over there, versus I take it with me, because I usually come down out of the office with a book and my phone and my water, and so it's just like okay, so that's going to follow me through it. Speaker 2: 43:18 And what I was doing was I wasn't reading, I was on my phone answering things or looking at things or just doing. I was way on my phone too much. And so again, it sounds simple and maybe you've all solved this, but for me I needed to kind of again train myself. Like it doesn't need to follow me. So it just stayed over by the coffee maker. Speaker 2: 43:31 But you have to disconnect and if for me, like if I don't, it will come at a cost of my health. Speaker 2: 43:38 You know, like if you're on your phone till right till you go to bed, you're not going to go to bed right away, you're not going to sleep well, you're going to, you know, probably have restlessness potentially, and for me, my mind's already going, so I don't really need the help of, you know, the light of the phone and electronics to stimulate it. So, thinking about those types of things and whether it's journaling or meditating or whatever you do, just making sure you know I remember someone saying the best way to get a good night's sleep is to exercise. So, like that's, my mind is movement. So, like you think, just being able to, whether it's walking on the walking pad or like you know, if you can, outside, you know, just being able to do the things that help you kind of get in that, really, if you think of, you know, turning off your computer or putting into sleep, like, what do you need to do to put yourself in those kind of zones of rest? Speaker 1: 44:25 and renewal and then you'll start to notice the little micro joys as well. I love your focus on fun and it's in my experience. I talk a lot about fun. However, I recognize that that's a very hard word for a lot of people, which is sort of ironic, but we clench up when somebody says go have some fun. We're like I don't know, I don't know how to have fun. What does that mean? The pressure? Speaker 2: 44:49 Yeah, pressure, don't pressure me to have fun. Yeah, so it's. It's something I mean. When you just ask someone like, what do you do for fun, is like it is an intense kind of a question because you're like, am I going to answer correctly or fast enough, or, yeah, do I even have anything? You know? And then you feel bad because you don't have anything you know. It's like, don't put that pressure on someone. Speaker 2: 45:08 Like, I think, just in this sense of like, are you doing things that aren't work related, outside of you know the, you know eight to five zone, or whether the work, whatever the work zone, is for you? And you know, are you going to concerts? Are you getting outside, are you learning a new language? Are you trying some art or going to the art museum or trying out for that soccer team, whatever it may be? You know reading that good book that isn't about work or getting ahead or growing your social or like. You know, like I'm a very heavy nonfiction reader, so every now and then I try to read a fiction book, which I'm just not good at, but I'm trying, yeah, you know. So like in that sense of like, just doing some

things that you know you enjoy, but they may not just have this direct connect to something that's going to get you ahead or, you know, solve a problem is have other inputs, have other inputs. Speaker 1: 46:14 We can't be creative when we just have the same inputs. So it's the idea of Julia Cameron and the artist's way take yourself on artist dates, go do something that's fun for you, go to the museum, get some other inputs and then you have more creative ideas. Speaker 2: 46:24 Yeah, so, like you know, mix the prints. You know, like, whatever it may be, you know, think about something that you normally wouldn't do, like go somewhere at noon, you know, take, take time in the middle of your day from 12 to four, or take a half day. You know, like we quarterly have creative trips where we'll just go for a day trip from here and we'll, you know, whether we go, we're in new England, so whether we go to Vermont or Maine or down to the city in Boston or but, but it's just there's no agenda except to have fun and to, you know, pick some places or spaces that we want to go visit and go do it, you know, cause everything isn't open after seven. You know what you want to do. So, in and those are those times become some of the most one. Speaker 2: 47:09 They're very fun, they're memorable and and you learn something, and it is a creative space and you start to think about things that maybe you wouldn't have even thought about if you were in the office. That you know like, oh, wow, I could take that, oh, I'd love to learn more about, or maybe I could meet. You know, all these possibilities, I think again, they start to pop up when you're in that space of just letting your brain rest, and they start to pop up when you're in that space of just letting your brain rest and letting your intentions kind of be just on you in the moment, versus the future, and I think those are really, really powerful moments that we need more of in our life. Speaker 1: 47:42 Yes, what a fun idea. I love the idea of the little creative trips that we could be taking and not having it be a huge deal. It's like you're not having to do all of the work so that you can be gone for a deal. It's like you're not having to, like, do all of the work so that you can be gone for a week. It's like a little trip that you can take somewhere. Speaker 2: 47:56 Yeah, just do a day trip and with no agenda other than to have fun, and so that leaves for, you know, sopping or pulling off or what's that, or let's go down that road. You know, like, really just you know learning. You know a lot of people who in your own hometown haven't done some things in your own hometown that people probably come to visit to do be a tourist in your own town. Speaker 2: 48:18 Yeah, yeah, so it doesn't even have to be far. You know, and you know, take the long weekend and take monday off, like, if you want to do like a longer trip and something that's with travel and again traveling,

I think, also is a way to be creative and it gets you out of your place or your space that you're normally in. You interact with people, you practice muscles that you didn't have to practice when you're, you know, in your home office. Those types of things you know patience, understanding, like, okay, you're learning how people are, you know, you know solving problems or doing things, and so I think it's travel just is one of those things, too that I think people should do more of, because I think it leads to, you know, being intentional and being present. Speaker 1: 48:58 Totally on board with that. One of my friends recently said I live in Portland, Oregon, and we had a friend who was a mutual friend, who was in town, and we went and did a couple of things with that person that neither of us had ever done and she said you know what I'm going to do, Jen? I am going to book a hotel in downtown Portland, Even though I live in Portland. I'm going to book a hotel downtown and I'm going to spend my time as though I was a tourist and I was like what a genius idea, because we don't do that when we live in the place, and a whole different perspective that would bring about all the things that you're sharing there. Speaker 2: 49:29 Yeah, and it's just such a, it's such a different way to operate, and then that's not a day lost, or that's not you being lazy or not being focused. That's actually you renewing yourself, filling your cup, having fun, doing things that are healthy for you, and then it's an experience that you can, you know, use or just feel like in the sense of your world and kind of how it can just be a very positive impact for you just to take that break and it leads to you coming back more refreshed and being able to, you know, hit the ground running. Speaker 1: 50:01 So good. I want to like fist pump at this. It's so good Okay, lee one final question that I ask every single person who comes on this podcast when do you see the magic in the world? Speaker 2: 50:13 Where do I see the magic? To me it's in relationships, honestly and connection. So I always look at the spaces I create as kind of that's my job. But the magic really happens when the women come together in the space and support one another, listen to one another and really help one another authentically. So I think it's the magic happens with true connection. Speaker 1: 50:36 Beautiful. Love that response and you're such a powerful connector. I've been following all of the things that you do. I'm like wowzes. So everybody go connect with Leigh and where you have this beautiful book, be Bold Today. Where can people find it? Get it pre-order? It Is it available now. Speaker 2: 50:57 Yeah, we'll give you all the links. It's available for pre-order now. So any place where you buy a book, whether it's Target or Amazon or Books A Million, you know or your local bookstore, you just Google it and it's going to come up and you can pre-order it. Speaker 1: 51:12 And it's beautiful. I love the type and the color and just the boldness of the book itself. It's bold, it's beautiful. Speaker 2: 51:21 I love it. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I hope you all enjoy it. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Speaker 1: 51:27 Leigh Absolutely. Thank you, absolutely. Thank you. Two words on this book. I'm like that is the reality and that's the reality that we are moving through and with, as there's something that we recognize we can improve on. Right, something that she can improve on is recognizing and celebrating things about herself that are so awesome. And she's not doing it perfectly right now, and that's okay. She recognizes that it's something that she wants to work on, so she starts and then she admits the vulnerability of like you know what this isn't like, necessarily going as I had hoped it would, and then over time she is going to begin to start to recognize those things because she's admitting to the vulnerability, she's admitting and sharing really where she's at with it, and so that's the process. We're never doing anything absolutely perfectly. We're always simply moving forward with where we're at and learning and grooving and moving along the way. So I hope that this conversation brought you a sense of peace, this bold framework that she has. I think if it resonates with you, it can be genius. Do definitely go and check out her book. All of the links to connect with Leigh are in the show notes. You're definitely going to want to follow along with her journey and grab that book. Speaker 1: 53:00 Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If there was something that really tugged at your heart, that really was a huge aha for you. I encourage you to share this podcast with somebody else who might need to hear it. You can share it with all of the people who might need to hear it If you take a little screenshot of the episode, share it on Instagram or social media, and if you tag me I'm untetheredjen on Instagram I will always reshare your post. You can also tag Leigh. She would love to know if this really resonated with you. Thanks again for listening. You just keep shining your magical unicorn light out there for all to see. I'll see you next time. Bye.