התמלול המלא של #132 Digital Accessibility: The Overlooked Marketing Strategy

As I've come into the accessibility space, just a lot of businesses and marketers haven't heard about it, haven't thought about it in their marketing. 28 00:02:15.343 --> 00:02:20.110 And so I think it's a really important message to get out there and talk about with other marketers. 29 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:35.366 Yeah, I'd love to talk about that in terms of, you know, how a lot of people haven't heard about it, because I think for a really long time, it was set up that if you were a government or a government entity, this was something that was like, you had to have it on. 30 00:02:36.346 --> 00:02:37.707 You know, no questions asked. 31 00:02:38.426 --> 00:02:42.091 But then there was gray areas in terms of who needed it, who didn't need it. 32 00:02:42.131 --> 00:02:53.666 And obviously as a user who would need the accessibility, you would think, why would I be removed from being able to order pizza online, being able to order clothing online or whatever it is, right? 33 00:02:54.626 --> 00:03:08.837 Talk to me a little bit about this gray area from a legal standpoint and everything that is on the internet and on the government pages and why we really should be focusing on ensuring that everything that we put out there digitally should be inclusive. 34 00:03:09.611 --> 00:03:25.041 Yeah, the reason that there's a little bit of gray area, and I think that gray area is quickly shrinking and becoming more black and white, is that when the Americans with Disabilities Act was written and signed into law in 1990, the internet wasn't a thing, right? 35 00:03:25.061 --> 00:03:34.668 So it focused exclusively on physical spaces and what businesses need to do to make their establishments accessible, physically accessible by all. 36 00:03:35.408 --> 00:03:37.329 So fast forward 10, 15, 20 years... 37 00:03:38.605 --> 00:03:41.206 we've gone completely digital. 38 00:03:41.286 --> 00:03:47.169 And in that time, the Americans with Disabilities Act has not been updated. 39 00:03:47.489 --> 00:04:06.059 So the courts have increasingly been the ones who, with that gray area, right, where it's actually not, again, written into it, have defined, okay, actually, if you, just as if you have a physical space, if you have a digital space where people can complete a checkout or can bank with you or, you know, insert, 40 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.001 activity here, then that needs to be accessible. 41 00:04:10.201 --> 00:04:17.505 And we see that at the federal level with fines for companies who are not accessible. 42 00:04:18.225 --> 00:04:28.330 And we see it increasingly at the state level where states are really saying, hey, if you're going to sell goods and services to customers in our state, it needs to be accessible. 43 00:04:28.390 --> 00:04:31.392 And so a little bit of what you talked about where for government, it's been 44 00:04:32.532 --> 00:04:34.333 kind of a mandatory thing for years and years. 45 00:04:34.974 --> 00:04:42.057 A lot of these state

governments are starting to say, hey, this makes sense for everybody, not just government interactions. 46 00:04:42.137 --> 00:04:58.026 And so we've seen lawsuits double over the last number of years as more and more consumers are recognizing, hey, in order to get some action here and be able to use a site, like unfortunately I have to put a lawsuit forward to get somebody to pay attention. 47 00:04:58.680 --> 00:04:59.221 Yeah, yeah. 48 00:04:59.622 --> 00:05:08.439 So I want to take that from a twofold standpoint, because I'm on this, I'm on the side that I think we, everyone needs to be making their website accessible, right? 49 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:09.401 And then I'm on the 50 00:05:12.852 --> 00:05:22.300 There are lawyers and there are law firms out there that make this their job to find websites that don't have accessibility because they can gain traction and they can really make a good buck. 51 00:05:22.640 --> 00:05:22.921 Right. 52 00:05:23.681 --> 00:05:27.244 Uh, and unfortunately it's, it can be a little bit of a scheme, right. 53 00:05:27.364 --> 00:05:31.448 Which I've had, I've had one client that was hit really badly because number one. 54 00:05:31.972 --> 00:05:37.760 He refused to do that, and then he also refused to put cybersecurity, so he actually got hit double in the same year. 55 00:05:38.941 --> 00:05:49.555 So I want to talk a little bit about that and not maybe spend the majority of our conversation on this, but I think it's very important because a lot of business owners will basically say, 56 00:05:50.158 --> 00:06:15.158 know i'm not going to put the money towards this there's the concept of it cost me a lot of money to build out my website to be accessible and then on the flip side you have all of these other platforms outside of your company's platform that it's just like oh add our widget really simplistically but people still get slapped with lawsuits you know because it doesn't cover i mean look nobody's website is going to be 99 percent accessible um 57 00:06:16.359 --> 00:06:20.081 you know, even for people who don't need accessibility, something's going to happen, right? 58 00:06:20.541 --> 00:06:22.082 But I am twofold. 59 00:06:22.122 --> 00:06:26.864 I want to talk about the legal, the legalities and the lawsuits that are happening. 60 00:06:26.964 --> 00:06:42.071 And then these other platforms in comparison to your company and and how you guys have really sort of separated out what they didn't cover and what you guys are fully giving a business owner versus versus them, if that makes sense. 61 00:06:42.311 --> 00:06:43.532 Yeah, I know that was long winded. 62 00:06:44.562 --> 00:06:45.825 Yeah, a lot to unpack there. 63 00:06:45.845 --> 00:06:49.552 So I'll start with some of the legal stuff and then feel free to interrupt me if you want to 64 00:06:50.130 --> 00:06:51.511 go down the Pacific roads. 65 00:06:52.071 --> 00:07:00.214 But yeah, unfortunately the serial plaintiffs, as we call them, are

a bit of a stain in the industry where they'll go out there. 66 00:07:00.634 --> 00:07:17.080 We did a litigation analysis last year and I think it was like 60 to 70% of suits that were brought were to small and medium businesses, mostly small, because again, these serial plaintiffs know that these businesses 67 00:07:17.500 --> 00:07:24.546 don't want to get into expensive litigation, they're probably more likely to settle for five or $10,000 and just be done with it. 68 00:07:25.187 --> 00:07:29.251 And unfortunately, because that is the reality, we see that more and more. 69 00:07:29.371 --> 00:07:35.276 So we do work with a lot of businesses to say like, hey, let's get your accessibility in place. 70 00:07:35.316 --> 00:07:40.220 It's going to be much less than the potential cost of fines. 71 00:07:40.741 --> 00:07:43.884 And so that's the kind of serial plaintiff angle. 72 00:07:44.745 --> 00:07:51.971 as we work with members of our disability community and talk to them, a lot of them will say like, I don't wanna sue as a first resort. 73 00:07:51.991 --> 00:07:54.614 Like my point is trying to engage with this company. 74 00:07:55.154 --> 00:07:58.277 And so they'll go to contact us, they'll go to the help desk, right? 75 00:07:58.317 --> 00:08:01.500 They'll make an effort to say like, hey, such and such is broken. 76 00:08:02.139 --> 00:08:03.140 can you help me fix it? 77 00:08:04.021 --> 00:08:07.464 Or can you help me buy this shirt that I really want to get right? 78 00:08:08.304 --> 00:08:17.052 And it's when they don't get responses, when they get kind of stonewalled, that then it's like, all right, do I need to have a lawsuit to force this? 79 00:08:17.092 --> 00:08:28.622 So I think that's maybe a best practice that is helpful for businesses is like, if people are reaching out to you, especially with disabilities who are having issues, like be reactive, be responsive and listen to them. 80 00:08:29.683 --> 00:08:36.088 Again, 99.9% of people with disabilities, again, just want to make the world accessible. 81 00:08:36.148 --> 00:08:43.934 And for future them or others who come in the future, they're just trying to make it so that they don't experience the same hassle. 82 00:08:43.974 --> 00:08:48.278 So I think when companies have the right intention, they're doing something about it. 83 00:08:48.798 --> 00:08:52.480 That alone minimizes your legal risk. 84 00:08:52.520 --> 00:08:55.923 And then, you know, you talked a little bit about some of the different approaches. 85 00:08:56.243 --> 00:09:03.107 There's definitely approaches that will still leave you with high risk and others that really do protect you. 86 00:09:03.487 --> 00:09:11.953 So that again, to your point, you might not be a hundred percent compliant, but you're 80, 90% and that just reduces the chance of you getting sued dramatically. 87 00:09:13.208 --> 00:09:13.869 Yeah. 88 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:18.151 So let's talk about the other platforms that are out there in comparison to yours. 89 00:09:19.232 --> 00:09:31.320 What makes your platform a lot more stringent in terms of protection and not receiving a lawsuit versus everyone else's? 90 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:38.344 And what should a business owner or a marketer be looking for when they are looking at these different types of platforms? 91 00:09:38.744 --> 00:09:38.924 Yeah. 92 00:09:39.505 --> 00:09:41.586 So historically, there's 93 00:09:42.427 --> 00:09:45.510 Now, somewhat generalizing it, but it's a very accurate generalization. 94 00:09:45.550 --> 00:09:48.112 There was two ways of solving accessibility. 95 00:09:48.832 --> 00:09:58.701 One was, as you mentioned before, slap a widget, slap some code on your site, and let this widget make your site accessible as users come. 96 00:09:59.582 --> 00:10:03.725 The challenge with that, the benefit is it hits all your pages, right? 97 00:10:03.905 --> 00:10:05.787 You can immediately scale to your site. 98 00:10:06.443 --> 00:10:09.307 But the challenge is there's only so much automation can do. 99 00:10:09.507 --> 00:10:19.139 There's these criteria called the web content accessibility guidelines that need to be verified and in place for your site to be accessible. 100 00:10:19.859 --> 00:10:21.461 And automated tools can really only 101 00:10:22.122 --> 00:10:30.005 get to 50 60% of those because there's so much context when it comes to a lot of the content online and some of these rules. 102 00:10:30.665 --> 00:10:36.307 So despite claims from some companies as well in the past, like, hey, install this and you'll be compliant within minutes. 103 00:10:36.907 --> 00:10:37.748 That's just not the case. 104 00:10:37.808 --> 00:10:39.568 So that's kind of been one route. 105 00:10:39.608 --> 00:10:40.369 And those. 106 00:10:42.030 --> 00:10:47.491 You know, people who have installed those widgets and felt like they were safe because they were told. 107 00:10:48.151 --> 00:10:56.493 We actually found last year that about 50% of suits were to companies with a widget in place who were kind of surprised to find out, wait, I've got something. 108 00:10:56.533 --> 00:11:01.515 Why am I still getting sued in the route as automation only goes so far? 109 00:11:02.055 --> 00:11:02.875 So that was one approach. 110 00:11:03.475 --> 00:11:08.016 The other approach was consultants who would come in, they would audit your homepage. 111 00:11:12.277 --> 00:11:22.466 who use a screen reader, who use a keyboard only, and they'll go through your site, write down all the things that they found, and then they'd provide you a list of things to fix at source. 112 00:11:22.986 --> 00:11:29.392 That's super helpful because, you know, you've got the person going through, they can get through most of those criteria, if not all of them. 113 00:11:30.033 --> 00:11:32.675 But then the challenge there is it goes back to your dev team. 114 00:11:32.715 --> 00:11:34.797 So if your dev team is already slammed, 115 00:11:35.557 -->

00:11:40.278 They've got to work all these accessibility fixes into the schedule and their sprints. 116 00:11:40.918 --> 00:11:43.978 And by the time those fixes get there, maybe the site has changed. 117 00:11:44.219 --> 00:11:54.660 So that's the kind of challenge with the fix that source or the consulting approach is the web has dramatically sped up and there's so many more changes and so many more A-B tests and personalization. 118 00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:59.761 So the static kind of web pages of 10 years ago don't really exist anymore. 119 00:11:59.781 --> 00:12:04.282 So that becomes a speed and a cost problem because you're paying developers to maintain it. 120 00:12:05.282 --> 00:12:07.225 long-winded a bit to get those two approaches. 121 00:12:07.605 --> 00:12:12.531 What we believe is the right approach isn't this like, is it this or it's that, but it's bringing them together. 122 00:12:12.792 --> 00:12:23.205 And so we believe that for the scale of the internet, and again, the speed, especially with AI coding now, being an even greater accelerant in how websites are built and changed, 123 00:12:24.191 --> 00:12:26.913 you've got to have some sort of technology to scale. 124 00:12:27.153 --> 00:12:41.524 And so we do use automation as well as like a foundation, and we run it for those 50 to 60%, again, of issues that automation can accurately and reliably detect and then fix. 125 00:12:41.744 --> 00:12:44.586 And so that runs in the background, that does fix things. 126 00:12:44.946 --> 00:13:01.100 But then we supplement it and complement it with audits where we do have people with disabilities who will look at the homepage, the checkout flow, the key templates that somebody might have, and then write fixes for them that we can then deploy in that same automation. 127 00:13:01.140 --> 00:13:02.642 So it doesn't have to go to a developer. 128 00:13:02.662 --> 00:13:04.263 It doesn't have to work its way into a sprint. 129 00:13:04.826 --> 00:13:10.248 So then about 90% truly of your accessibility can be fixed. 130 00:13:10.748 --> 00:13:16.070 Again, it's coming through that automation layer, but it's supplemented with the people who are doing audits. 131 00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:27.735 So to us, that's really the solution of the future is this more comprehensive bringing both worlds together, taking the pros of each and kind of getting rid of the cons as well. 132 00:13:28.422 --> 00:13:29.323 Oh, no, absolutely. 133 00:13:29.643 --> 00:13:30.923 Uh, that, that was a great answer. 134 00:13:30.983 --> 00:13:31.844 So thank you so much. 135 00:13:32.384 --> 00:13:39.968 You've talked about accessibility as an up on the, as an untapped growth strategy, what does that actually mean? 136 00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:41.289 Yeah. 137 00:13:41.349 --> 00:13:51.654 So there's a few, uh, areas where, uh, as we, so a lot of times we'll come, uh, uh, work with businesses and it comes to the legal or the compliance team, right? 138 00:13:51.674 --> 00:13:57.137 Cause they've got a suit, uh, or a friend of a friend got sued and like, we need to, uh, look into this. 139 00:13:57.695 --> 00:14:05.499 But more and more, we're actually hearing from marketers and digital marketers, especially who are seeing that there's a number of business benefits. 140 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:10.681 So the first one is SEO and also increasingly AEO and GEO. 141 00:14:10.701 --> 00:14:24.548 So answer engine optimization and generative engine optimization, where if a site is built accessibly, that means that you've got, you know, your headers and your tags all descriptive and 142 00:14:25.028 --> 00:14:29.289 and accurate for images and links as opposed to generic descriptions. 143 00:14:29.309 --> 00:14:30.990 You've got very specific. 144 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:32.631 So again, that screen reader can read it. 145 00:14:33.271 --> 00:14:40.573 These are all things that make the site so much more usable by a person with a disability, but also for those crawlers that are coming in. 146 00:14:40.653 --> 00:14:46.535 It also makes it easier for them to scan the page to understand what the page content and context is about. 147 00:14:47.015 --> 00:14:48.916 And so there are impacts to SEO. 148 00:14:49.796 --> 00:14:54.338 We're also starting to see again with the answer engine optimization and how 149 00:14:55.398 --> 00:15:20.727 agents are crawling web pages that they'll often use that same kind of accessible code to understand the page and if an engine has a choice between an inaccessible page that's going to use more tokens and take more time and one that's very clear and it can get those answers quickly generally I think it's going to default to that easy one and provide those answers so we're seeing a 150 00:15:21.207 --> 00:15:24.971 impact from that organic area as well. 151 00:15:25.551 --> 00:15:39.225 And then from just a customer loyalty perspective, people with disabilities and their friends and family globally control 18 trillion in disposable income, which sounds like such a cool, that's such a huge number. 152 00:15:39.245 --> 00:15:42.528 But again, when you think about it, one in five people globally, 153 00:15:43.089 --> 00:15:47.594 have a disability of some sort, when you add in cognitive disabilities and things like that. 154 00:15:48.315 --> 00:15:59.628 And so, again, one thing that we hear from our community as we're talking to them is when they do find a company that's accessible and they do find a company that's prioritizing it, 155 00:16:00.529 --> 00:16:04.650 they want to go back because they've made that experience for them so much easier. 156 00:16:05.350 --> 00:16:07.130 We talk about customer experience in marketing. 157 00:16:07.190 --> 00:16:09.231 It's no different for people with disabilities. 158 00:16:09.251 --> 00:16:14.591 In fact, it's probably more important because it's so hard to find a good customer experience. 159 00:16:15.052 --> 00:16:22.133 And so not only did they

become very loyal, but they're going to shout it to their very tight-knit friends and family. 160 00:16:22.573 --> 00:16:27.754 And family members want to support businesses that support their loved ones and their friends. 161 00:16:27.794 --> 00:16:28.994 And so we see loyalty. 162 00:16:29.554 --> 00:16:32.195 and customer retention being a big one as well. 163 00:16:32.255 --> 00:16:44.340 And third one I'll just share that it's kind of a little bit on the outskirts, but especially as you're thinking about people with cognitive disabilities and how do I write web content that is clear and understandable? 164 00:16:46.401 --> 00:16:50.723 So that's another one that I think is a lot of times underlooked that 165 00:16:51.543 --> 00:16:53.785 With accessibility, you want to avoid jargon. 166 00:16:54.286 --> 00:17:04.475 You want to write as simply and as focused as possible so that, again, when a person comes to a page, they know what you do, what you provide, what values, how you're different. 167 00:17:04.535 --> 00:17:06.617 It's really, unfortunately, 168 00:17:07.570 --> 00:17:11.773 Very common for businesses to just get stuck in like putting way too much on their page. 169 00:17:11.813 --> 00:17:14.895 So also an exercise if you're doing it right. 170 00:17:15.375 --> 00:17:21.419 And in addition to making it clear for somebody who has a cognitive disability, you're making that page stand out for everybody else. 171 00:17:21.479 --> 00:17:31.325 And that page, you know, share your message in a way that, again, anybody who's coming to your page can understand and know kind of what action they should take. 172 00:17:32.085 --> 00:17:33.046 Yeah, no, I love that. 173 00:17:33.106 --> 00:17:33.606 I love that. 174 00:17:34.027 --> 00:17:34.287 So yeah. 175 00:17:35.532 --> 00:17:41.454 Do you, well, we know that businesses underestimate how many people are impacted by poor digital accessibility. 176 00:17:41.854 --> 00:17:44.214 What is that percentage actually in the U.S.? 177 00:17:44.854 --> 00:17:46.255 In the U.S., it's one in four. 178 00:17:46.575 --> 00:17:56.538 So that takes into effect, again, cognitive disabilities, but blindness, hearing impairment, again, mobility. 179 00:17:56.618 --> 00:18:01.339 So somebody might not be able to use a mouse to navigate, so they just have to tab on a 180 00:18:02.443 --> 00:18:03.564 Uh, but yeah, it's one in four. 181 00:18:03.604 --> 00:18:14.650 In fact, when I came to, uh, audio, I, uh, as you mentioned in the intro, I've been at Adobe for over a decade, creating almost, almost every type of content possible. 182 00:18:15.311 --> 00:18:18.232 And I never once thought like, is this accessible? 183 00:18:18.292 --> 00:18:20.914 Is this PDF, uh, accessible to somebody? 184 00:18:20.954 --> 00:18:23.756 Is this interact super cool visual interactive experience? 185 00:18:24.136 --> 00:18:24.456 Yeah. 186 00:18:24.816 --> 00:18:27.778 Who's blind actually consume that and understand what's happening. 187 00:18:28.506 --> 00:18:35.068 And again, that was me and my team not saying that Adobe itself wasn't thinking about accessibility. 188 00:18:36.349 --> 00:18:37.769 But it was definitely a wake up call. 189 00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:48.893 And even when I came here, I would talk to small business owners, talk to one who owned like a supplement company and was just explaining digital accessibility. 190 00:18:48.933 --> 00:18:50.193 And he's like, oh, that's interesting. 191 00:18:50.233 --> 00:18:52.354 Doesn't really apply to me, but that's really interesting. 192 00:18:52.951 --> 00:18:55.132 I was like, well, hold on, let's talk about it for a second. 193 00:18:55.152 --> 00:18:59.875 Like, actually, why doesn't, why is that assumption real, right? 194 00:18:59.915 --> 00:19:04.878 Is that accurate that a person who's blind doesn't work out or doesn't need protein? 195 00:19:04.938 --> 00:19:07.419 And it's like, in fact, it might not even be a workout. 196 00:19:07.539 --> 00:19:10.541 You could have a new segment of people who just, you know, need, 197 00:19:11.300 --> 00:19:14.801 to improve their health and movement and things like that. 198 00:19:14.821 --> 00:19:20.923 And so he's like, oh, that's a really good point that like, it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? 199 00:19:20.943 --> 00:19:26.065 That I say they're not an audience and thus I don't make it built for them. 200 00:19:26.085 --> 00:19:27.225 And so they don't become one. 201 00:19:27.245 --> 00:19:40.109 So more and more, I think people are starting to realize that, oh, not only are people with disabilities are there kind of more than I thought there were, this is not a minority, actually, 202 00:19:41.273 --> 00:19:45.878 there's audiences and segments that are available to me that I wasn't considering. 203 00:19:46.697 --> 00:19:47.277 Absolutely. 204 00:19:47.697 --> 00:20:04.665 And so we've touched a little bit on that and I want to take it further because a lot of people need to be thinking about, you know, not necessarily need to, but can be thinking about this as yet another arena for them to expand their ideal customer profile. 205 00:20:04.705 --> 00:20:11.408 Because most people think about their ideal customer profile, but there is no inclusivity as it relates to accessibility, right? 206 00:20:11.888 --> 00:20:19.050 Or maybe they do from adding captions to their videos and audio and so on and so forth. 207 00:20:19.090 --> 00:20:22.451 But are we really thinking beyond, right? 208 00:20:22.632 --> 00:20:32.955 As we're talking about, how would somebody for a workout app be able to access that app similarly to be able to have movement or whatever it is? 209 00:20:33.275 --> 00:20:35.296 And what kind of programs can we develop for them? 210 00:20:35.316 --> 00:20:36.836 Because it will open up a whole new world. 211 00:20:36.876 --> 00:20:38.717 I mean, if it's one in four, that's a lot of people. 212 00:20:40.358 --> 00:20:52.136 Um, so

based on that, I also want to talk about, you know, what should leaders be thinking about in terms of accessibility as part of their like customer experience and not just the technical side and the checklist of it. 213 00:20:52.728 --> 00:20:53.788 Yeah. 214 00:20:54.408 --> 00:21:09.771 One thing that I like to talk about, which I think also is not talked about a lot, is again, thinking about accessibility as part of the marketing tech stack, not as just a part of maybe a compliance organization. 215 00:21:10.392 --> 00:21:18.693 And the reason I say that is, let's say that accessibility ends up being 2% to 5% of your overall marketing budget. 216 00:21:19.753 --> 00:21:22.074 Investing in digital accessibility there, 217 00:21:22.794 --> 00:21:28.840 I think then accelerate and compounds the results you then get from your other investments. 218 00:21:28.860 --> 00:21:37.368 So like year over year, that's what every marketer is thinking about is how do I, without investing more, how do I improve my conversion rates? 219 00:21:37.528 --> 00:21:42.412 How do I get more out of the audience and the people who are already coming to my site? 220 00:21:42.432 --> 00:21:48.298 And so that's not only optimizing your paid efforts, but also your website and doing tests there. 221 00:21:48.798 --> 00:21:55.703 And so as you make that site accessible, again, it improves your SEO and your AEO and GEO. 222 00:21:55.723 --> 00:21:57.764 It improves the user experience. 223 00:21:57.844 --> 00:22:03.428 It improves hopefully the flow and the conversion paths that you have. 224 00:22:03.969 --> 00:22:17.438 And so I like to kind of think about that small investment as part of the tech stack that makes the rest of your investment even more efficient and not having to invest more to increase your revenue or whatever goals that you might have. 225 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:23.101 Yes, just making it easy because, I mean, marketing teams have a lot to think about, right? 226 00:22:23.141 --> 00:22:27.843 I mean, as we talked about SEO, paid media, email, social, and the list goes on, right? 227 00:22:28.263 --> 00:22:33.625 What are simple things that marketers can do right away to make their content more accessible? 228 00:22:33.665 --> 00:22:39.928 Because, you know, as I introduced you, I know that you do a lot of the marketing as well, you know, in email marketing, you know, social. 229 00:22:39.968 --> 00:22:44.430 And how does and how should accessibility show up within these channels? 230 00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:45.130 Yeah. 231 00:22:45.790 --> 00:22:49.452 So we do a yearly digital accessibility index. 232 00:22:49.492 --> 00:22:56.314 We just released the 2026 version where we scan, this year we scanned 166,000 web pages. 233 00:22:57.314 --> 00:22:58.334 And is that at random? 234 00:22:59.115 --> 00:22:59.335 Yes. 235 00:22:59.535 --> 00:23:08.718 And well, it's across mostly enterprise, but a little bit market and SMB did also in the EU this year to kind of

get a global perspective. 236 00:23:09.378 --> 00:23:12.219 Are there laws in EU similar to ours? 237 00:23:12.883 --> 00:23:17.286 Yes, in fact, they just passed a law last year called the European Accessibility Act. 238 00:23:18.007 --> 00:23:27.714 We just hit the one-year mark of that actually in June, which is a very expansive digital accessibility act, essentially like the ADA, but digital. 239 00:23:28.255 --> 00:23:33.119 And so it's actually a pretty landmark bill. 240 00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:36.001 They've just kind of started... 241 00:23:37.104 --> 00:23:46.456 The challenge with it is it's a country by country in terms of how they approach it and how they get companies to follow it. 242 00:23:47.037 --> 00:23:51.022 And it took a lot of the countries like a year to figure out, all right, what is our way? 243 00:23:51.162 --> 00:23:51.943 Are we going to find? 244 00:23:52.023 --> 00:23:53.445 Are we going to actually sue? 245 00:23:53.485 --> 00:23:53.965 Things like that. 246 00:23:54.526 --> 00:23:58.689 But we're seeing France, Italy, Germany really starting to ramp up enforcement of this. 247 00:23:58.729 --> 00:24:03.013 So the thing that's important there is that's not just a European business. 248 00:24:03.053 --> 00:24:09.678 If you're a U.S. business with customers in the EU, that applies to your business as well. 249 00:24:09.718 --> 00:24:11.900 So, yeah, very important call out. 250 00:24:12.260 --> 00:24:20.947 So in terms of like what kind of business do to get ahead to, you know, it's helpful to have the technology like I talked about earlier. 251 00:24:21.127 --> 00:24:25.448 that fixes things that slip through, but how do you actually have fewer things slip through? 252 00:24:25.488 --> 00:24:30.769 So in that report that we publish, it's been the same three top three issues every year. 253 00:24:31.329 --> 00:24:34.170 First is image descriptions, the alt text there. 254 00:24:34.590 --> 00:24:41.551 Just with the speed, again, of the internet and trying to get things live, a lot of times they're either blank or they're not descriptive enough. 255 00:24:42.012 --> 00:24:47.713 And so, again, a person using a screen reader who's trying to shop for a new shirt, if it says... 256 00:24:48.833 --> 00:24:54.116 soft cotton v-neck with three inch sleeves, bright yellow. 257 00:24:54.456 --> 00:24:57.657 That's a good description as opposed to t-shirt, picture one. 258 00:24:58.518 --> 00:25:00.799 The second is link description. 259 00:25:00.899 --> 00:25:13.265 So similarly, as I'm trying to navigate through a site as a blind person, if that link says read more or click here or continue on, not helpful. 260 00:25:13.285 --> 00:25:14.345 I don't know where I'm going. 261 00:25:14.405 --> 00:25:15.566 I don't know if I click that. 262 00:25:16.192 --> 00:25:22.497 That's the type of stuff that causes people with disabilities so much extra time because they're clicking through a site, trying to figure out where they should go. 263 00:25:23.458 --> 00:25:31.365 Those are the big two, which again, in your planning and your building are very easy to ensure that you're doing that right. 264 00:25:31.885 --> 00:25:36.850 The third one is big because it's often a conversion bucket, which is form fields. 265 00:25:37.430 --> 00:25:39.552 And again, it's the same thing, underlying code. 266 00:25:40.473 --> 00:25:55.120 in your shipping form, in your contact desk form, in your help desk form even, and you're signing up for a newsletter, if those fields aren't clear in the backend to a screen reader, I don't know where I put my first name, I don't know what box there is. 267 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:57.641 Sometimes those will be filled out, but then, 268 00:25:58.562 --> 00:26:00.804 I'll do something wrong and an error box will pop up. 269 00:26:00.824 --> 00:26:05.027 Well, the error box might not actually have the right context behind it. 270 00:26:05.047 --> 00:26:07.208 So I then don't know where to go from there. 271 00:26:07.268 --> 00:26:16.395 So form fields are a big one because that hits, I think it was like 50% of pages had a form with some sort of issue on it. 272 00:26:16.895 --> 00:26:18.616 And so that's a conversion path. 273 00:26:18.656 --> 00:26:27.523 Like that is a real one that dings you is if you've got forms there, but if companies can start with like those three things and make sure that that's part of their, um, 274 00:26:28.563 --> 00:26:31.705 process, then that's going to take care of so many things. 275 00:26:32.005 --> 00:26:40.008 Those are also like the top 60% of things included in those lawsuits by like serial plaintiffs, because they're not, those are the common things. 276 00:26:40.468 --> 00:26:46.871 And so if you have those taken care of, again, you're less likely to be hit by a serial plaintiff because they run a scan on your site. 277 00:26:47.431 --> 00:26:49.051 They see that you're pretty good. 278 00:26:49.071 --> 00:26:52.733 And there I go, we'll go find somebody who's in the worst shape. 279 00:26:53.413 --> 00:26:55.534 Yeah, who is basically not doing anything. 280 00:26:55.794 --> 00:26:56.234 Exactly. 281 00:26:56.334 --> 00:26:58.754 And that becomes an empty settlement for them. 282 00:26:59.455 --> 00:27:00.075 Yeah, yeah. 283 00:27:00.455 --> 00:27:11.157 So I want to talk about design and better storytelling in twofold, but let's dig into the design aspect of things. 284 00:27:11.237 --> 00:27:17.599 One of your suggested topics is inclusive design, but I want to really unpack that and what that actually means. 285 00:27:19.159 --> 00:27:21.440 Yeah, so inclusive design is really, 286 00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:29.029 from the start, thinking about people with disabilities and- Is it just wider space? 287 00:27:29.149 --> 00:27:29.470 Is it- 288 00:27:30.173 --> 00:27:46.381 Yeah, a lot of it is like color contrast, it's divided, which is actually, as we look at the top five issues, that's another one of them is just not

having the right color contrast, not only for people with disabilities, but like we have a increasingly aging population as well. 289 00:27:46.501 --> 00:27:53.584 And as people get older, that color contrast actually matters quite a bit in how they read and are able to consume content. 290 00:27:54.445 --> 00:27:58.427 So that's part of it, but it's also just part of the, 291 00:27:59.608 --> 00:28:17.735 the designing of again, your conversion flows and your page flows is, is this content consumable in all technologies, not just somebody looking through a browser, but again, if they're tabbing through, can they get through the content? 292 00:28:17.776 --> 00:28:25.679 So a lot of times design is very much like, let me wow you with interactivity and like things moving around. 293 00:28:25.699 --> 00:28:28.100 At the end of the day, does that, 294 00:28:28.860 --> 00:28:29.862 tell the right story? 295 00:28:29.983 --> 00:28:35.815 Does that make it more clear again, what value you provide and 296 00:28:36.154 --> 00:28:41.517 how that does fit into various segments and ICPs who are coming to your site. 297 00:28:41.897 --> 00:28:52.423 So thinking about and wrapping accessibility into the planning stage isn't just a color or text exercise, although that is part of it. 298 00:28:52.963 --> 00:28:57.766 It really is thinking about the experience from multiple points of view. 299 00:28:57.866 --> 00:29:03.749 So as another example, a team who's thinking about inclusive design, in addition to saying, all right, 300 00:29:04.085 --> 00:29:12.628 we have this new site we're rolling out, let's do some qualitative interviews with the top three industries that we have and the top two personas. 301 00:29:13.068 --> 00:29:18.889 They also might now say, okay, let's bring in a person with a disability and have them go through this experience as well. 302 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:20.130 And what's their feedback? 303 00:29:20.170 --> 00:29:27.072 So training people with disabilities as well as like a segment that you need to ask and check with the people. 304 00:29:27.652 --> 00:29:48.217 how it's working as you're building it, that makes it much easier to develop those best practices, to build it in a way, again, that works for everybody, as opposed to bolting it on after the fact where there's some things you can do, but you can't create that ideal experience as if you're building it from the get-go. 305 00:29:48.797 --> 00:29:50.018 The get-go and the ground up. 306 00:29:50.139 --> 00:29:50.919 Very interesting. 307 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:56.025 You also have a strong background in storytelling as I introduced you. 308 00:29:56.445 --> 00:30:01.151 How does accessibility change that way we think about digital storytelling? 309 00:30:01.171 --> 00:30:02.913 Yeah. 310 00:30:04.348 --> 00:30:05.349 There's probably two things. 311 00:30:06.229 --> 00:30:18.738 And I talked with about one of them, which is just the idea of simplicity and making the story that

you're telling resonate clearly with the audience. 312 00:30:18.878 --> 00:30:22.720 I think that so many companies try to be overly clever. 313 00:30:24.365 --> 00:30:31.592 they throw in jargon that makes it sound like they're experts in the industry, but at the end of the day, it doesn't actually differentiate them. 314 00:30:32.152 --> 00:30:44.323 So to me, working in accessibility has helped me really narrow in as I'm building our own website, are we just saying the most clear, 315 00:30:46.225 --> 00:30:51.990 differentiated message that we can, so that anybody can understand it. 316 00:30:52.570 --> 00:30:57.234 And the more that we've done that, it's like taking us some time to kind of get through that. 317 00:30:57.294 --> 00:31:01.297 And it shows you that maybe we don't know our values or we don't know some of those, 318 00:31:01.777 --> 00:31:03.758 pain points as well as we should. 319 00:31:04.778 --> 00:31:12.180 But once you get to them simply, it's just like a light bulb switches and I think the site becomes instantly more usable. 320 00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:30.225 That doesn't mean you can't be clever, you can't be pithy, but I think when you focus on the clarity and the simple message first, your story is able to come out and be more memorable with all the noise, like you said at the top, that we're dealing with now as marketers, but also just as people. 321 00:31:31.565 --> 00:31:42.411 The other thing that it's really taught me, there was an interesting campaign that I came across after I joined Audio, I called Assume That I Can, which is of this person with Down syndrome. 322 00:31:42.931 --> 00:31:52.216 And it's this really compelling video of her in various situations in her life where people were like, oh, you can't do that. 323 00:31:52.536 --> 00:31:55.138 So it was like going out and drinking with friends. 324 00:31:55.318 --> 00:31:57.219 It was dancing at the prom. 325 00:31:57.959 --> 00:31:58.599 things like that. 326 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:05.521 And she said, don't let your reality or your perception of reality become my reality. 327 00:32:05.561 --> 00:32:06.441 Let me dictate. 328 00:32:07.181 --> 00:32:16.183 And that was such a great campaign, not only because it had a great message and made people think differently, but it brought people into the story. 329 00:32:16.963 --> 00:32:23.445 And to me, that was also kind of an aha because on the one side of accessibility, 330 00:32:24.245 --> 00:32:27.107 I'd say almost everybody I talk to is like, yeah, that makes sense. 331 00:32:27.607 --> 00:32:29.949 Like we should be inclusive. 332 00:32:29.969 --> 00:32:32.431 We should build a site that everybody can use. 333 00:32:33.151 --> 00:32:43.738 But then they go to their next meeting and the budget talks happen and the priorities hit and that we should do this quickly slides down. 334 00:32:43.758 --> 00:32:50.223 So I think in storytelling, in addition to that, like do good message, it's also bringing people together. 335 00:32:50.823 --> 00:33:00.554 into the story that you're telling and not just having them experience a marketing message or experience a story, but like put them in it, make them feel a part of it. 336 00:33:01.335 --> 00:33:04.338 And in our case, that means helping them feel how, 337 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:14.508 the space of digital accessibility helps our business, helps those same priorities that might be deprioritizing accessibility. 338 00:33:15.589 --> 00:33:21.354 But it really is an illumination that there are so many misconceptions out there. 339 00:33:22.134 --> 00:33:24.276 And so I think the more marketers are, 340 00:33:25.217 --> 00:33:30.780 in whatever industry they're in, can tackle those misconceptions, top three misconceptions. 341 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:38.283 I think that's where people start to change the way they think and change the way they act towards a product, a service, or a company. 342 00:33:40.262 --> 00:33:42.103 Very interesting also on that front. 343 00:33:42.503 --> 00:33:55.129 That, moving away from that a little bit and talking more about leadership buy-in and marketing accessibility practical, who inside the company should own the digital accessibility? 344 00:33:55.189 --> 00:33:56.729 Is it the marketing department? 345 00:33:56.769 --> 00:33:57.430 Is it product? 346 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.091 Is it web, which just folds up into marketing? 347 00:34:00.151 --> 00:34:00.831 Is it legal? 348 00:34:02.632 --> 00:34:03.792 Where does this usually sit? 349 00:34:04.012 --> 00:34:09.695 And if it doesn't sit in a company, let's talk about the best place that it should be sitting. 350 00:34:10.657 --> 00:34:26.584 This sounds a little bit like a kind of easy answer, but it's wherever in that company it's going to have the most momentum and the most sustained prioritization, that's where it should sit. 351 00:34:27.384 --> 00:34:29.725 Because you need a champion, you need somebody who is going to push it. 352 00:34:30.926 --> 00:34:34.067 You're going to need somebody who can make it a collaborative effort because 353 00:34:34.727 --> 00:34:40.710 even if it's owned in marketing, there is going to be the developer impact. 354 00:34:40.730 --> 00:34:46.312 There is going to be the compliance and legal impact as maybe a suit comes forward. 355 00:34:46.472 --> 00:34:49.373 They want to know that they're protected as much as possible. 356 00:34:49.393 --> 00:34:53.555 I think one is just identifying where does accessibility have the most chance. 357 00:34:54.315 --> 00:35:01.358 Like I mentioned in the past, it was very largely a legal or a compliance team who was coming in saying, we need to do this. 358 00:35:01.938 --> 00:35:25.058 think that does still make sense but like i said we are seeing more and more where the marketers are the ones driving that discussion because they own the website or some product teams that might own the website they're owning it as well because they recognize

that as they try to shift accessibility left from being that bolt-on to how do we work this into our sprints how do we work into our design and development processes 359 00:35:26.118 --> 00:35:28.600 it makes sense to be owned on those teams. 360 00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:46.333 So again, it's a bit of a wherever it makes sense, but so many businesses struggle with accessibility and, or they treat it as a one-time thing, like let's do it and then we're good, which is one of the worst approaches you can hire, another misconception. 361 00:35:47.493 --> 00:35:49.313 So it really is like, where's the champion? 362 00:35:50.174 --> 00:35:52.414 Where's the momentum going to come from? 363 00:35:52.454 --> 00:35:56.115 And then let's find that leader, get that leader excited. 364 00:35:56.175 --> 00:36:01.676 And we often are providing them with some of the enablement so they can sell it within their organization. 365 00:36:02.376 --> 00:36:03.436 Yeah. 366 00:36:04.156 --> 00:36:13.598 How can marketers make the business case for accessibility to leadership if they don't have it and they really will need to drive it home, you know? 367 00:36:14.212 --> 00:36:22.825 Yeah, I think we've seen on our end, it really does come down to the business impact because brands want to do the right thing. 368 00:36:23.526 --> 00:36:27.032 They, you know, want to, again, change. 369 00:36:27.712 --> 00:36:28.912 be inclusive where they can. 370 00:36:28.932 --> 00:36:35.395 But at the end of the day, if they can't put an ROI around that, it becomes easily de-prioritized. 371 00:36:35.895 --> 00:36:56.223 And so, uh, as we help businesses see the various impacts to conversion rate, uh, optimization to, um, loyalty and potential customer retention, the SEO benefits and, uh, AEO and GEO, that helps take a story that is just a, we should do this at some point to, uh, 372 00:36:56.748 --> 00:36:59.543 All right, the faster we can do this actually will impact 373 00:37:00.051 --> 00:37:05.315 our other marketing goals and we help them build those stories and put more ROI. 374 00:37:05.836 --> 00:37:15.304 And it's tough, like you can't have a direct ROI with I installed or started working with accessibility and saw X, Y, and Z directly happen. 375 00:37:16.225 --> 00:37:28.415 But we definitely see businesses that have seen increased retention, increased sales, better traffic from SEO, and we build that into the story that we're telling. 376 00:37:30.872 --> 00:37:38.257 I'm really curious because I'm a data analytics person, you know, just as a marketer, and I focus a lot on data and my trust moves are based on data. 377 00:37:38.317 --> 00:37:40.839 So I don't do anything unless the data is telling me. 378 00:37:41.279 --> 00:37:57.551 So what metrics and signals should companies pay attention to when improving accessibility or to be able to tell leadership, this is how our website is performing based on the hits that we're getting for the one and four that are hitting our

site? 379 00:37:57.889 --> 00:37:58.089 Yeah. 380 00:37:58.690 --> 00:38:07.524 So that one's also a little bit tough because it's, you don't necessarily track who's visiting your site with a disability for obvious reasons, right? 381 00:38:09.330 --> 00:38:21.934 But the first area I would say is actually the compliance angle that we talked about before, which is you should have a dashboard that is showing what level of risk do you have at the moment. 382 00:38:21.974 --> 00:38:32.038 You kind of hinted earlier accurately that your site's never going to be 100% compliant, but you can get as close as possible to that if you're doing things right. 383 00:38:32.058 --> 00:38:33.278 And so I think that's step one is 384 00:38:33.850 --> 00:38:37.374 have some sort of dashboard that is showing you across your site. 385 00:38:37.734 --> 00:38:38.695 How many issues do you have? 386 00:38:38.796 --> 00:38:40.397 What gaps do you have? 387 00:38:40.718 --> 00:38:41.318 What are they? 388 00:38:41.338 --> 00:38:43.381 And how do you fix them in the near future? 389 00:38:44.362 --> 00:38:47.686 Some companies have like an arbitrary accessibility score. 390 00:38:47.746 --> 00:38:50.589 That's like, hey, your accessibility is 88 out of 100. 391 00:38:50.609 --> 00:38:50.749 Yeah. 392 00:38:51.950 --> 00:38:55.533 But that's just like an internal diagnostic that they've built. 393 00:38:55.553 --> 00:38:57.194 So what does it tell you? 394 00:38:57.214 --> 00:38:57.794 Not a lot. 395 00:38:58.154 --> 00:39:08.261 So I think if you can, whether it's through your tool or through your own internal reporting, build accessibility conformance and accessibility compliance into some of that reporting. 396 00:39:08.642 --> 00:39:12.604 That helps keep you safe from a compliance perspective. 397 00:39:12.744 --> 00:39:16.167 Or, again, at least know what your risk is and understand that, hey, right. 398 00:39:16.767 --> 00:39:23.093 20% of my pages have issues we need to fix or I'm okay with that level of risk at the moment. 399 00:39:24.194 --> 00:39:24.734 I love that. 400 00:39:24.895 --> 00:39:25.315 Yeah. 401 00:39:25.795 --> 00:39:27.237 So that's the conformance angle. 402 00:39:28.197 --> 00:39:38.707 Does your, and not to interrupt you, does your app track when somebody like switches it on and all that when they arrive on the site or is it something that's always on? 403 00:39:39.307 --> 00:39:39.988 It's always on. 404 00:39:40.048 --> 00:39:40.268 So, 405 00:39:41.795 --> 00:39:45.879 we strongly believe accessibly, it shouldn't be something that somebody turns on. 406 00:39:45.899 --> 00:39:49.884 It should be, they should be able to access an accessible site from the beginning. 407 00:39:49.964 --> 00:40:00.195 So the way it works is our automation, which again is about 50% of the issues, the human auditors do the other half, that automation, 408 00:40:01.220 --> 00:40:09.190 when the page loads, we'll review the issues, find the issues that are still in the source code, make those fixes. 409 00:40:09.250 --> 00:40:20.083 And so the code that is being displayed to that end user, whether I'm visually seeing it or someone's using an assistive technology, is the newly updated accessible code. 410 00:40:20.964 --> 00:40:24.727 So that's always on, that runs 24 seven, that runs on every page. 411 00:40:25.187 --> 00:40:31.231 And so that it ensures that somebody who's visiting does get that accessible experience. 412 00:40:32.552 --> 00:40:39.576 There are some companies that do have it as an opt-in and yeah, we just think that's a, a not discrimination. 413 00:40:40.136 --> 00:40:40.337 Yeah. 414 00:40:40.357 --> 00:40:43.278 And to a degree it also means you have to self-identify. 415 00:40:44.359 --> 00:40:44.719 Sure. 416 00:40:44.739 --> 00:40:46.441 So it's discrimination at the end of the day. 417 00:40:46.761 --> 00:40:47.221 Yeah, exactly. 418 00:40:48.242 --> 00:40:48.422 Um, 419 00:40:49.551 --> 00:40:51.032 without having to bend around it. 420 00:40:53.173 --> 00:41:01.418 So for practical takeaways for a small business owner listening, what is one accessibility improvement they can make this week other than signing up to your platform? 421 00:41:02.697 --> 00:41:11.941 So I think one is, which is not maybe necessarily executing something, but I would get a free site scanner. 422 00:41:12.141 --> 00:41:12.881 Audio has one. 423 00:41:13.061 --> 00:41:14.162 There's other tools out there. 424 00:41:15.262 --> 00:41:18.484 You can just search free website accessibility scanner. 425 00:41:19.764 --> 00:41:21.085 That's really helpful because... 426 00:41:21.745 --> 00:41:22.946 That gives you information. 427 00:41:23.426 --> 00:41:27.289 I think a lot of people are surprised to see how many accessibility issues exist. 428 00:41:28.190 --> 00:41:35.575 I don't think I mentioned it, but what we found in our Accessibility Index this year is the average webpage had 62 accessibility issues. 429 00:41:35.595 --> 00:41:36.575 So not website. 430 00:41:37.036 --> 00:41:38.557 Every webpage had 62 issues. 431 00:41:39.037 --> 00:41:41.720 So generally when I tell people that they'll, okay, sure. 432 00:41:41.841 --> 00:41:44.744 And they'll go run it and then they'll email me like, holy cow. 433 00:41:44.764 --> 00:41:46.767 Like I had so many more than I expected. 434 00:41:46.787 --> 00:41:51.893 So I think that is the helpful first step is just like, where are you currently? 435 00:41:52.373 --> 00:41:55.497 And again, that scanner is only measuring what a tool is. 436 00:41:55.863 --> 00:41:59.226 can measure, so there's still 50% more than an auditor. 437 00:41:59.266 --> 00:42:04.310 So that number actually kind of under inflates what your real number is. 438 00:42:04.610 --> 00:42:05.111 So start there. 439 00:42:05.571 --> 00:42:08.874 Secondly, I think recognizing that 440 00:42:09.667 --> 00:42:11.708 There's a lot to understand, all right? 441 00:42:11.768 --> 00:42:14.109 There's like

all the WCAG criteria. 442 00:42:14.829 --> 00:42:16.830 Just don't get overwhelmed, just start somewhere. 443 00:42:16.870 --> 00:42:25.593 So if it's the images, the text and the forms that as you're building are the first three places you can focus, that is gonna get you 444 00:42:26.553 --> 00:42:30.156 so far better than anybody else who's doing nothing. 445 00:42:30.176 --> 00:42:46.490 Um, so I would say that, uh, those alt texts, the link descriptions and make sure your form fields are built appropriately is really going to set you up to have a strong foundation to then decide, all right, where do I want to prioritize next in the future? 446 00:42:47.171 --> 00:42:47.371 Yeah. 447 00:42:48.052 --> 00:42:54.317 Out of everything that we've discussed, what is the biggest opportunity businesses have if they actually take accessibility seriously? 448 00:42:55.413 --> 00:43:00.755 Honestly, I think it's, it is a differentiator with other businesses. 449 00:43:00.835 --> 00:43:17.222 So I think more and more again with lawsuits, with international and state led regulations becoming more and more frequent, we're going to get to a point where everybody has to do it for one reason or another. 450 00:43:17.242 --> 00:43:19.103 And so the sooner you can do that, 451 00:43:20.597 --> 00:43:23.359 that again opens up new audiences for you. 452 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:30.265 It opens up new audiences who are more loyal and better advocates of your brand. 453 00:43:30.285 --> 00:43:38.933 So it really becomes a way to get ahead of your competition in a way that they're not even thinking about or practicing. 454 00:43:39.873 --> 00:43:47.360 And so I do think it is something that for companies who get ahead of it, they really are differentiating themselves in a different way. 455 00:43:47.957 --> 00:44:02.858 If that ties into your brand, like that's a great thing to add to your brand messaging and your reputation marketing as well as the idea of being an inclusive brand that, you know, builds its sites and its digital content for everybody. 456 00:44:03.695 --> 00:44:04.135 I love it. 457 00:44:04.295 --> 00:44:04.696 I love it. 458 00:44:05.496 --> 00:44:09.778 This has been super, super, super helpful, Mike, in terms of digging into all the details. 459 00:44:09.798 --> 00:44:11.319 So I really appreciate it. 460 00:44:11.379 --> 00:44:15.921 We have a tradition before we let you go where we where we close out with rapid fire. 461 00:44:16.822 --> 00:44:19.483 So we ask one myth, one habit and one word. 462 00:44:19.883 --> 00:44:22.244 So whatever comes to mind, just fire off. 463 00:44:23.505 --> 00:44:27.127 One myth about digital accessibility that businesses need to stop believing. 464 00:44:29.935 --> 00:44:34.256 People with disabilities don't use my product or service. 465 00:44:35.516 --> 00:44:35.776 I know. 466 00:44:35.896 --> 00:44:48.839 And I, and I love that we talked about this early on in the beginning, because the person that you were talking to had this aha moment of like, oh my gosh, I could open up a completely different stream of, you know, an audience if I just actually thought about it. 467 00:44:48.979 --> 00:44:59.141 And it is kind of interesting how we have unconsciously, I want to say, siloed, uh, these folks out and, and that needs to change going forward. 468 00:45:00.444 --> 00:45:06.886 One habit every marketer should build to make their work more inclusive. 469 00:45:07.586 --> 00:45:25.170 Finding stories outside of marketing or the world that you work in and finding ways to bring those stories into your work to differentiate the way that you talk about your business. 470 00:45:27.358 --> 00:45:30.341 What's one word that defines the future of accessible marketing? 471 00:45:32.403 --> 00:45:32.903 AI. 472 00:45:35.325 --> 00:45:35.746 Very good. 473 00:45:37.327 --> 00:45:38.749 Mike, I love this conversation. 474 00:45:38.769 --> 00:45:40.050 I think it's been great. 475 00:45:40.190 --> 00:45:46.836 You know, accessibility is one of those areas in marketing that often gets pushed, as we have continuously talked about this. 476 00:45:47.557 --> 00:45:48.838 And it needs to... 477 00:45:49.389 --> 00:45:54.813 really start to move into the forefront because people assume it's too technical, it's too expensive. 478 00:45:55.174 --> 00:46:03.300 As I mentioned earlier, they think that I'm only gonna be 100% accessible if I build this from the ground up versus actually using companies like AudioEye, like yours. 479 00:46:03.820 --> 00:46:17.431 So this has been extremely eye-opening to really talk through it, especially from the legal standpoint, knowing that you're never gonna be at 100% compliant, but how can we at least make you X% compliant 480 00:46:18.832 --> 00:46:28.596 to ensure that you don't get caught in the web of any legal issues and that you are supporting those that could potentially be, you know, a customer of yours. 481 00:46:28.696 --> 00:46:31.377 So thank you so much for joining me on this conversation. 482 00:46:31.437 --> 00:46:32.317 I truly enjoyed it. 483 00:46:32.737 --> 00:46:33.197 Yeah, me too. 484 00:46:33.217 --> 00:46:33.758 I appreciate it. 485 00:46:34.898 --> 00:46:38.920 And we'll list all of Mike's information below, all the details for the website. 486 00:46:39.040 --> 00:46:42.021 So please feel free to check it out for any questions that you have. 487 00:46:42.061 --> 00:46:42.781 So thank you again. 488 00:46:53.906 --> 00:46:53.926 .