התמלול המלא של Breaking Down Night Siege '81 with Don Keating ep

itself kind 71 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:31.079 of makes it cool. It wasn't the original when it 72 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.399 was released, but everything is in it. It is all. 73 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:42.319 It's concise, it's got the forward by Berthold Schwartz, MD, 74 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.639 it's got an introduction, and to my knowledge, it's got 75 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.959 very full and concise book of field notes. Basically is 76 00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:00.240 how it reads of Dennis's experiences during this night eighteen 77 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:05.439 eighty one flap of high strangeness. So we got Don here, 78 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:14.639 and Don has spent several hours with Dennis Polititius, who 79 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:20.000 was the author of this, and in my conversations with Don, 80 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:23.920 he has said that those were three of the most 81 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.879 intriguing hours of his life. So Don, welcome, too uncomfortable again, 82 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:30.480 good to have you back. 83 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:33.160 Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. 84 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:39.120 And listen. I tell you, when I read Night Siege 85 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:45.519 what struck me see? And I don't know how. I 86 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:50.879 don't know how well known this story is to many people. 87 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:53.279 I know that it's been out there, and it's been 88 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.759 out there for you obviously since nineteen eighty one, but 89 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.279 I don't know that it is really got it way 90 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:04.120 into the masses. It may have. I could be completely wrong, 91 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:09.920 but it struck me that the field notes and everything 92 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:13.360 that are that are in this book, by the end 93 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:17.519 of it, it struck me as it wasn't just about 94 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:24.120 the sightings. It felt more like these guys politious and 95 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.920 the obviously the family that owned the farm that all 96 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.720 this stuff was taking place on, but the five or 97 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.959 six other people mentioned in the book, as far as 98 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.560 researchers that had gone to that property, many of which 99 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:44.279 were there during some of the experiences and witnessed them firsthand. 100 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.319 From what I can tell, it felt like these guys 101 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:53.360 were living in some kind of ongoing bubble, almost like 102 00:07:53.519 --> 00:08:00.920 the the property had some weird person of its own. 103 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:07.560 It was most definitely a series of events that took 104 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:12.040 place from June of eighty one through I believe the 105 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:16.279 end of September or early October thereabouts of nineteen eighty 106 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:24.800 one for Ohio ranks up there with the Minerva Monster 107 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:31.480 as being really, I mean bizarre. The Minerva Monster incidents were. 108 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:37.480 They had a different tone of strangeness to themselves because 109 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.080 of the incidents that took place with the family. This 110 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:47.279 series of incidents in Rome had a tone of strangeness 111 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:49.480 due to the fact that not only were these people 112 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.960 on a regular basis seeing sasquatch or big foot type creatures, 113 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.399 and these three toad tracks continued to be discovered that 114 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:00.759 were around fourteen inches in length to give or take. 115 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:06.320 And you know, normally, if you go hunting and you 116 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.080 take a gun with you and you shoot at your 117 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:12.279 prey and it drops, it dies, it's gone, it's done, 118 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:17.039 it's dead. These people shot at these things, and I 119 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.639 hesitate to use the term point blank, but they were 120 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.639 within a hundred feet many times when they shot at 121 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.240 these entities. They as they seen them approaching the property 122 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:33.440 on numerous evenings overnight, and nothing happened. There was no 123 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:36.679 blood found, there was no fur or hair found, there 124 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:41.440 was no deceased squatch lying in some farmer's cornfield one 125 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:46.080 hundred yards away. Nothing happened. Besides the fact that a 126 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.720 shot was taken at the endity, the creature, whatever you 127 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:56.399 choose to call it. And I mean, you know, with 128 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:00.320 that type of a thing that happens in the prey 129 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:05.720 does not fall prey to a shotgun blast relatively close range. 130 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:07.840 And I don't know of anything that flesh and blood 131 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.799 it's not going to fall prey to the shotgun blast 132 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:15.759 close up. Then you're you're definitely on a realm of 133 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.840 uh believe it or not. 134 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.960 Well, that's that's a great point. Now, something that that 135 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.279 popped out at me in reading these field notes, much 136 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:34.759 like you're saying, several shots were fired at these entities 137 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.840 multiple times throughout the course of this, uh this event 138 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:48.159 taking place across the summer, and if there was any 139 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:52.399 any kind of

effect from the gun shot, it seemed 140 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:56.720 to be nothing more than they would witness that whatever 141 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:03.919 the entity or creature was that they shot at typically 142 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:08.440 seemed to drop to the ground and then scurry away. 143 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:10.360 Yeah. 144 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:16.440 Now, the other interesting thing was that you talk about 145 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:21.879 the three toad prints, but there were also seventeen inch 146 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:27.399 five toad prints that were that were found in the area, 147 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.960 So we had you know, I mean, I mean, this 148 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:37.279 book this set of field notes. I mean again, I 149 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:41.679 can't stress enough that this was nineteen eighty one. All right, 150 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:51.000 So you know flying saucers, science fiction movies, A couple 151 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:58.759 of Bigfoot type movies have been out. But like when 152 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.240 you when you take in the entire encompassing high strangeness 153 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.159 that was going on at this at this farm, at 154 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:13.440 this property, when I say that we've got entities that 155 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.960 are leaving three toad prints and five toad prints, that 156 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.960 that doesn't even begin to cover the mass of high 157 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.720 strangeness that that was going on at this time. 158 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.519 That's for sure. That's a that's a major understatement. 159 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:36.320 Now, you spent time with with Dennis the author, right, 160 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:45.759 I guess what did you take away from that? You said, 161 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:51.759 roughly three hour convening with him. What did you what 162 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.120 did you do? What were you able to take away from? 163 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.720 Yeah, let me let me tell you how how the 164 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.759 whole thing transpired, how it took place. Myself and another 165 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.639 researcher from northeast Ohio. He lived in Twinsburg. His name 166 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.960 was Mark Francis, and I believe it was during the 167 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.480 March of nineteen eighty six. But don't hold me that 168 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.960 he lives in Twinsburg, or did live in Twinsburg. I 169 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.480 lived in Newcomberstown as I do now, and so Twinsburg 170 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.279 from Newcomerstown is about a two hour drive northeast. Then 171 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:22.840 you go from twin I looked at the map and 172 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.360 I'm like, Twinsburg to Rome and a piece of cake 173 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.159 is an hour long, you know, wrong, is about two hours. 174 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.919 We found that out the hard way. But I get 175 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.879 up there to March and I say, do you want 176 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:35.960 to go see if we can find politicious talking about 177 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:39.840 this this stuff, this allegedly. Now remember I'm talking to 178 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.879 Francis in March of eighty six, so this is literally 179 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.000 less than five years after these incidents had allegedly taken 180 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.840 place in the summer of eighty one. Okay, so it's 181 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:54.759 relatively new. So okay, let's let's go ahead and ride 182 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:56.679 on up there. All right. Well, the first thing was, 183 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.000 we have no phone number for Dennis Politicus. Number two, 184 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.559 we have no address Dennis Politics and number three. If 185 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.960 you look at a map, Rome, Ohio and ashtonbuilda county 186 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.600 northeast part of the state is a dot and that's 187 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:12.360 about it. So we're taking a real shot in the 188 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:17.039 dark here. That we're even gonna find the proper home 189 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:19.480 for him to begin with. Does he live by himself, 190 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.360 does he lives he's married, does he have you know 191 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.960 who knows? So we get up to room and we 192 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.720 stop at a gas station and get something to drink. 193 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.080 We say, hey, you know this, we're researchers. I'm kind 194 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.440 of curious as to whether or not we can find 195 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.080 the whereabouts of one Dennis Pelicious. We'd like to talk 196 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.279 to him about the incidents that took place there a 197 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:43.720 while back. And then behold they were you know, first off, 198 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:45.399 you're at their mercy, or they're gonna give you a 199 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.080 wild goose chase and you're gonna be chasing tailor never 200 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.840 find the place. But no, we we were given good 201 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:56.360 information and we found the house. So this is where 202 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:01.559 the bizarreness begins. Okay, Okay, Now I don't know if 203 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:03.840 you know who Mark Francis is or the listeners if 204 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.960 any of them know who Mark Francis is. Mark is 205 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.399 an individual who has long hair. He was a rock 206 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.759 and roll I want to be. He wanted to go 207 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:16.120 out there and play heavy metal or whatever rock music. 208 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.360 So he had the typical long hair like Van Helen 209 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:24.039 and all them did back in

the eighties. So I'm 210 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.159 two thirds of the way bald at the time, and 211 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:29.120 he's got long hair. What a duo to come knocking 212 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:36.919 on your door. We knocked on the door and we're like, 213 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.440 there's lights inside, but there's nobody home. So we knock again, 214 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.200 and this guy comes to the door and he looks 215 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:50.639 at us like we both have three eyes, and he's 216 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.720 like standing in their stone colde not saying a word, 217 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.879 and I'm like, okay, this is awkward. Your turn. So 218 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.559 I introduced myself and told him who Mark was, and 219 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:08.600 I said, we're paranormal investigators. We investigate UFOs or big 220 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:13.600 foot sidings, and we had heard about the incidents and 221 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.679 we're quite serious. I lived four hours away and Mark 222 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:19.879 lives two hours to the southwest to hear, and we'd 223 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:21.919 like to know if we could talk to you about 224 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:26.720 what all happened and what you were involved in. And 225 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:28.600 he's still standing there looking at us like, you know, 226 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.919 you guys are just off the wrong. UFO here, get 227 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:37.840 out of my property. But he finally says, yeah, come 228 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.399 on in, you know, come on in and have a seat. Now. 229 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.320 Dennis was renting a part of the property that his 230 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.679 parents had lived on. So he was like living in 231 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.960 a side portion of the house and his parents lived 232 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:51.960 in the major, the main part of the house. No 233 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.759 big deal, but it's you know, it's for the record, 234 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:57.720 that's where he was living. And he was a very 235 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:03.000 nice individual once you gained his trust that you weren't 236 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.960 there to make fun of him and call him every 237 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:12.200 name in the book besides cuckoo. So were there, we're 238 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.920 talking to him, and he. 239 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.200 Seemed very grounded, practical. 240 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.680 Oh yeah, well yeah, I mean, you know, two grounded 241 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:25.000 at first, because we're like, where's the where's the Louisville slugger? 242 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:26.039 Who's going to get smelted? 243 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:26.640 First? 244 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:32.279 You know, we're up there without a calling card. We 245 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.079 pop in on the sky and it was not too 246 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:41.200 far from sunset at the time, you know, and he 247 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.519 he could have easily said, you know, I'm done with it, 248 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:45.599 I'm out of it, I don't really have any intent 249 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.279 on talking about it. Thanks for coming up, but have 250 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.279 a nice day and take off a but he didn't. 251 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:59.200 He seemed relatively individual, relatively pleasant individual once we got 252 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.160 inside the houses started talking to him. The one thing 253 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.759 that I regret is the fact that I didn't have 254 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.680 him tape recorder with me and recorded the entire conversation. 255 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:15.000 So I'm going by memory from uh be forty years 256 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.559 ago this year, So I'm going by memory on this. 257 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:21.319 So we we get in the house and we start 258 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.599 talking to him about idle chit Chad. You know, here's 259 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:28.400 here's how Mark got involved in the bigfoot research field. 260 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.960 Here's how I got involved in the bigfoot research field. 261 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.880 You know, we we tend, at least I tend on 262 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.880 a regular basis, the Track County UFO study Groups and 263 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.720 Alliance Ohio and they're hosted by Oh yeah, I know, 264 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.640 they're hosted by Jim rastet Or and Paul Razik. Yeah, yeah, 265 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.759 that's that's who they're hosted by. He says, yeah, I know, 266 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.039 I've I've been involved with those folks for a long time. 267 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.400 I said, okay, cool. You know that's one way we 268 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.160 found out about you because I purchased one of the 269 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.440 softcover books that was available at there because I wanted 270 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:03.599 to read about it and I wanted to add it 271 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.640 to my library. So he's like, all right. So we're 272 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.559 sitting there, not one, not two, but approximately three hours 273 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.440 and he says, you know, I sometimes some things are 274 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:21.599 better off showing hard physical evidence and what they are 275 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.519 just telling you about what happened. So he says, I'm 276 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:26.640 let me go get a couple of boxes. I'll be 277 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.400 right back. So it goes outside. It comes back in 278 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.279 ten to fifteen minutes later, and Mark and I wes 279 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:35.480 like twiddling our thumbs. What do we do now? You know, 280 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:38.000 what's the after? Is he one after one of

these 281 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.480 creatures he has hidden in the basement or what I 282 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.200 don't know. Could have been one of the aliens that 283 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.640 was there on the property too, but who knows. So 284 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.640 he comes back around into the house and he comes 285 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.559 in and he has it was two, if not three 286 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:58.079 boxes of plaster casts, both of them. They all all 287 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.519 had the plaster castings in them, the original no plaster 288 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.559 castings from their own property. And he showed them to 289 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.160 us and he said, you know, the majority of the 290 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.799 tracks that we discovered were three toad. You know, there 291 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.119 were a couple of five toad. There was a large 292 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.440 three toad on the rock pile that the jump that 293 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.759 the boy had found when this series of events began 294 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:21.240 to take place, But he said, the majority of them 295 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.640 are three toad. I said, do you think that. You know, 296 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.400 there's giant birds that fly around called blue heron, and 297 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.039 there's you know, they're called cranes. I mean, is it 298 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.599 possible that any of these were made by them? And 299 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:34.839 he said no, not a chance, no no way, shape 300 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:39.319 or for him, all right, whatever. So there are very 301 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:44.519 few tracks that were a complete plaster cast of fourteen 302 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:46.559 inches in length, but there were a couple of them. 303 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.799 So granted, there were apparently some fourteen inch three toed 304 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.680 tracks that were discovered and they took paster castings of them. 305 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.079 We talked about the plaster casting as we talked about 306 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:03.000 the various footprints that were discovered. We talked about people 307 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:09.000 on top of the house all night shooting at these things, 308 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:10.400 encountering these. 309 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.960 Things, because that was a that became a pretty common thing, 310 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.599 right that there were members of the household on that 311 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:21.480 farm that absolutely that basically took shifts being on top 312 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:22.799 of the roof of the house. 313 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:28.880 You know. And if you were to ask me why 314 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.480 did the creatures become drawn to that area, I have 315 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.119 no idea. I know, across the street from where the 316 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:39.400 property was there was a large soybean field or whatever produced. 317 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:42.039 The farmer decided to plant that year, but there was 318 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.119 a large soybean field at that time. I also read 319 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.640 and part of the booklet was that during June of 320 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.559 that year a gas line had been put through the 321 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.519 area and it was they cut some virgin forest down 322 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.359 to put this gas line in. Did that have anything 323 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.640 to do with the coming about because they were upset 324 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:04.799 because the forest was cut down. I have no idea. 325 00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:09.240 I couldn't tell you. But anyway, so we're looking at 326 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.279 these plaster castings and then he comes up with this 327 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.759 piece of these two actually two pieces of parachute cord, 328 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.799 and I'm like, are these the parachute? Is this the 329 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:25.160 parachute cord that you guys had the rabbits tied to 330 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.519 that you used as bait to see if the creature 331 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.559 would try to take him? He said, yeah, Now, I 332 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:36.640 don't know what the maximum weight allowances for parachute cord. 333 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.759 I mean, you're you're jumping from a plane, how many 334 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.599 thousands of feet above the ground. They it's got to 335 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.319 hold up. According they're going to have lawsuits left, right 336 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.680 and nearer which way would lose because they're defective. 337 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.920 So, according to what was written in the book, they 338 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.599 were tested. They were twelve pound test. 339 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.960 Okay, I couldn't recall that part, but that's twelve hundred pounds. 340 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.480 I mean, you know, that's quite a bit. So he 341 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.839 pulls out this parachute cord and I mean, these things. 342 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.680 This cord is snapped in half, snapped in half. It's 343 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.920 not cut, it's not burnt. It is literally snapped in half. 344 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.519 You could see the fray on both pieces of the cord. 345 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.440 Now my first question is who, what has the ability 346 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.319 to take a parachute cord with a rabbit typed to 347 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.440 it on top of every other thing else and snapping 348 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:36.720 a half I no idea. Okay, so that's impressive enough 349 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:40.839 as it is. So yeah, so we're we've looked at 350 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.799 the bail, We've looked at the

parachute cord, and then 351 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.400 he starts showing his photographs from a I believe it 352 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:53.839 from a polaroid camera of lights in the dark. Okay, 353 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.480 what's this? Well, these are the lights in the dark 354 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.640 that the bigfoot creatures were whole. I said, do what 355 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.359 and he said, yeah, there were creatures out there that 356 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.880 had lights that they were holding, that they were using. 357 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.839 And by this time I'm like, all right, well, you 358 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.759 know it's no wonder I can't find one of them. 359 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.319 If they use lights, they can find me as easy 360 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:17.119 as I can find them. 361 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.440 I'm done now Now you saw the photographs, correct, Yeah, 362 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.559 so all right, So in in the book, there is 363 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:32.400 a a crude sketch I guess you'd say, of a 364 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:38.440 dark figure in the field with obviously with some kind 365 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:44.720 of illuminated object in its hand. Right, So, like it's 366 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.920 in the picture, the drawn picture in the in the book, 367 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:53.000 it's almost akin to like someone holding a flashlight, like 368 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.799 there was a a source of light that was in 369 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.640 their hand and the beam was projecting out. Is that 370 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.039 Is that what the photograph looked like as well? 371 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:04.079 Well, the photograph did not show the dark form. It 372 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.480 just showed it was all dark, with the exception of 373 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:10.720 the one small dot in the middle of it or 374 00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:14.039 whatever part of the photo. And that was allegedly the 375 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.319 light that was being projected from the flashlight from the 376 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.920 black form in the field or in the woodline or 377 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.960 wherever it was located. Okay, but that was but that's yeah, 378 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.279 you're right, that's on page twelve. Black forms and phantom flashlights. Yeah, 379 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:28.559 so he showed me that, he showed me these photos, 380 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.680 and I mean, you know, according to the photos here, again, 381 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:35.759 he's got he's got proof that there was some kind 382 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:38.240 of a light being projected by something out there in 383 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.079 the field but or in the woodline. But who or 384 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.319 whatever it was that was responsible for it is anybody's guests. 385 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.400 But if there's black forms,

you know, I don't know. 386 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.000 I could I could dress like a baseball umpire and 387 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.319 have all black on or dark shows. And you know 388 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:54.960 what I'm saying, I could be I could have a 389 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.200 dark form myself, right yeah, But and I'm not saying 390 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.200 this stuff is just made up bs. But you know 391 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.160 the the I'm from Columbus, Ohio, but I used the 392 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.960 attitude I'm from Missouri to show me state you get approved. 393 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:13.880 To me, what you're showing is more than fifty percent 394 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.880 likely paranormal were associated with what you're talking about. That's 395 00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.200 all there is to it. I just don't. I don't. 396 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.279 I don't drink the kool aid like they did in Jonestown. 397 00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:28.119 You know, I've got to be proven too that this 398 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.720 stuff took place. So he showed us the I mean 399 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.000 he may have, well no, he didn't, may have. He 400 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.839 did have cassette tape after cassette tape after cassette tape 401 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.200 of incidents as they took place in the field. Okay, 402 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.200 you can hear gunshots, you can hear people screaming, you 403 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.519 can hear people talking, and then all of a sudden, 404 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.200 oh hades breaks lows again. 405 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.839 And so it wasn't just recorded conversations with people who 406 00:26:58.920 --> 00:26:59.960 were eyewitnessed. 407 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.920 Oh No, these were in the field recordings as it 408 00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.799 took place. And that's one of the that's one of 409 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.279 the things I've always preached to the people that have 410 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.960 done research with me in the field. I've preached and 411 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.960 preached and preached to people that go with me in 412 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.200 the field. You better have a tape recorder. You better 413 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.480 make sure that it's recording the minute you step out 414 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:23.720 of my car, because if you don't, and you hear 415 00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:26.480 a noise off in a distance, when you're about one 416 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.480 hundred yards away from me checking someplace else out and 417 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.119 you don't have a recording, I'm all to look at 418 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.200 you and say, did you get on tape? And if 419 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:36.319 you say no, well, I'm going to find the nearest 420 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:41.400 strip pond and put pushia. That's that's that's that should 421 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.759 be that and a camera or a camcorder should be 422 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.240 the first two things that you have on your person 423 00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.559 when you get out of a vehicle to do research, 424 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:51.920 because if you don't, why you're out there for a 425 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.680 joy ride? 426 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.680 What the yeah, what the hell are you doing? 427 00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:57.960 Yeah? I mean you're wasting my time, and most of 428 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:03.799 the way you're wasting your time. But anyway, so these recordings, yes, 429 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.720 they absolutely were made when the incidents were taking place. 430 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:13.160 Now jump ahead to one evening when we had gone 431 00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:15.519 to Jim rast Ditter's house after one of the Track 432 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:20.599 County UFO meetings. Jim says, I've got something for you 433 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:24.480 that you might like to hear. Oh, all right, well 434 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.599 what is it? He goes to the basement. It comes 435 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.599 back up a few minutes later and he's got if 436 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.119 I remember correctly, it was at least twelve one hour 437 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.480 audio cassettes. Now they weren't the originals, but they were 438 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.920 first generation copies off of the originals. He said, here's 439 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:46.480 twelve hours of recordings from Rome, Ohio, no kidding. I said, 440 00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:48.119 what would you like me to do with these? Jim? 441 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:50.599 He said, well do you can borrow them and listen 442 00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:52.079 to him on your at your leisure, and then when 443 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.599 you're done with them bring them back. Unfortunately, you know, 444 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.400 I wasn't kind of sneaky and made a copy of them. 445 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.720 I did listen to them. And I want to tell 446 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.400 you one thing, as I'm sitting here at my desk 447 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.240 right now, if all of those incidents on those tape 448 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:15.240 recordings were legitimate and connected to Bigfoot, there is no 449 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.920 reason that you're going to find it, because it's far 450 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:25.599 and beyond anything that most people can comprehend in their 451 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.759 daily life. There is nothing on the face of the 452 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.880 earth that's going to be able to discover one of 453 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.279 these creatures in a flesh and blood form, lie it 454 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:41.720 on a table for an anthropologist to dissect and investigate 455 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.079 piece by piece, and then turn it in along with 456 00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:50.240 a

paper and give it a name. If that stuff 457 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:56.799 was honest to goodness legitimate, there's you're basically just beating 458 00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:58.480 your head up against a brick wall and you're not 459 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:01.839 going to get anywhere because this stuff was bizarre. 460 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:05.519 All right, Give give me some of the things that 461 00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:10.480 stood out to you as being the boss batshit crazy. 462 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:16.359 Well, the one thing was when they were at the property, 463 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.799 at the residence and they were talking to the residents 464 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:24.519 and they were they were trying to convince the investigators 465 00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:27.559 that were there with the audio cassette recorders that well, 466 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:29.440 you know, not only do we have a big foot, 467 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.640 impossible UFO and aliens out there, our house may not 468 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.480 only be possessed, but we may be possessed as well. 469 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:44.680 Oh okay, well, oh yeah, there's one or two individuals 470 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.200 that were related in the family that claim to have 471 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.039 been possessed by whatever. So they said, well, how do 472 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.519 you expect to how do you expect to prove to 473 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:58.680 us that some really weird stuff was going on in 474 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.079 this house. Now we're going from paranormal big foot stuff 475 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.440 to paranormal ghosts, yeah, hauntings, possessions. Okay, so let's try 476 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.279 this experiment, shall we. The one guy that was supposedly 477 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.240 or the one family member I don't remember the guy 478 00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.799 or a girl who supposedly had strange things going on 479 00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.640 that she might have been possessed or whatever. They called 480 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:21.519 her up, you know, didn't call her on the phone, 481 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:22.920 but they said, hey, come here or so and so 482 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.279 all right, let's see if let's try that experiment again 483 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:28.480 and see if it will work. Oh okay, So what 484 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.319 experiment you're talking about there, folks, Well, let's just put 485 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.440 it to you this way. You know how you cup 486 00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:35.839 your palm and you can put a little bit of 487 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:37.559 water in your palm and it'll hold there like a 488 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.359 little swimming pool until you tip it and it falls 489 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:44.039 out of your palm. Sure, sure, no problem. Well, the 490 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.039 only problem is when we do that to this person, 491 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:53.279 the water goes through the hand. Say what, No, it 492 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.240 goes through the hand, not out of the hand. It 493 00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:01.200 goes through the hand. Now I'm sitting here, this is 494 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.559 the stuff that was on the cassette recordings. I'm not 495 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.519 making this stuff up. This is what I heard with 496 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.039 my own ears on these recordings. And they tried the 497 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:11.680 experiment when the recorder was going, and it happened that way. 498 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.359 And you should have heard the reaction of the researchers 499 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.480 when they were there. It was like there was no 500 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:23.240 there was no comprehendible verbal way of expressing what the 501 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:29.240 heck you know? And so this stuff was on those 502 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.599 cassettees and this stuff was very bizarre. 503 00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.359 Now did I understand you correctly when you said that 504 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:40.039 you did not make copies of this? Or you did 505 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:40.880 make copies of this? 506 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:42.400 Did not? 507 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:43.160 Okay? 508 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:46.759 I wish I had, but no I did not. 509 00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.759 In all these years. Have you ever heard of these 510 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:52.720 tapes resurfacing anywhere? 511 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:59.599 No, I have not. There was one gentleman, Jim Rass 512 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.799 there had a copy of them. I'm wanting to say 513 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:04.759 there might have been another fellow by the name of 514 00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:07.759 Jim Carnes. He lived up I don't know if it 515 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:09.960 was in the Ravenna area or a Youngstown area up 516 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.559 in that part of the state somewhere that may have 517 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:13.839 had a copy of them, because I believe he went 518 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:18.400 up to Rome once or twice with Rastetter. But other 519 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.799 than that, those might have been the only two people 520 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:25.079 that I know or that I recall that had a 521 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.480 copy of those audio cassettes. Unfortunately, Jim Rasteter passed away 522 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:33.440 in nineteen ninety three and his wife passed away. I 523 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.799 don't know how long it was after the year two thousand, 524 00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.440 but before the year twenty twenty. I looked up per 525 00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:43.039 obituary not too long ago. And also, unfortunately, Dennis Politicius 526 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:46.519 passed away in twenty twenty two, so he's yeah, he's 527 00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:53.599 no longer around. So you know, it's it's

unfortunate because 528 00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:58.960 so much time and footwork and resources were put into 529 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.440 going up there on a regular basis and trying to 530 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.720 figure out what Sam Hill was going on. And I 531 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:14.440 honestly I think doctor Berthollward Schwartz has deceased. I know 532 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:19.719 that rast editor Carnes Paul Rozik, who may have been 533 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.519 up there a couple of times. He was the co 534 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.400 chairman of the Track County uf study Group. He passed 535 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.840 away a few years ago, so he's no longer around, 536 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.719 you know. So it's it's very unfortunate that one by 537 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:35.400 one of these resources that were there first hand, that 538 00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:40.480 or had firsthand knowledge of this stuff are no longer here. 539 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:42.519 And even if they are, how do we get hold 540 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.440 of them? Where are they at? 541 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:50.039 To your knowledge? Night Siege, the book by by Dennis 542 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:57.760 that is pretty much the only published account of except 543 00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.519 for a few a few police reports that were officially 544 00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:11.960 made and some local newspaper reports that you know, a 545 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.440 paragraph or two here and there that that were actually 546 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.679 the only things that were ever publicly made known about 547 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:23.119 about this series of events. 548 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:27.079 Correct, Yeah, that's that's about it. I don't even know 549 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.519 if Policius even showed up at one of the Track 550 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.920 count of UFO study group meetings and talked about the 551 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.519 stuff in person I know when I started going up 552 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:39.039 there in October of eighty four, that was like two 553 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.119 months after I started investigating bigfoot on a very serious basis. 554 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.360 Myself and a gentleman by I knew of Tom Archer, 555 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:49.039 who was formerly a Rentalsburg, Ohio We went up there 556 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.920 and he said, I know, I know a group we 557 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:52.719 can go to. They might have some new big foot 558 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:54.800 in food. And I said, okay, let's go. So we 559 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:59.400 drove up and we met Rasted Or met Rossie, Met Carnes, 560 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.159 Bob Garfield, Joe Turner, people that are involved in that 561 00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:06.039 group that might happen to hear this, know who those 562 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:12.440 folks were. But yeah, regarding your original statement of documentation, yeah, 563 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:14.800 there were one or two newspaper articles that I know 564 00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.679 of that were written about the incidents, very small blurbs 565 00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:24.519 and uh this nice siege booklup, and that was to 566 00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:25.639 my knowledge, that was it. 567 00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:34.400 I mean, it's it's frustrating because it's it's it's so 568 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:38.119 local to me that you know it would I would 569 00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.679 love to be able to get into the area and 570 00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.320 try to find but you know, like you're saying, the 571 00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.400 majority of these people that were all involved are deceased, 572 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:51.920 and any any trail to where these these tapes or 573 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:56.960 any other field notes would be, as anybody's guess, it'd 574 00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.960 be a needle in a haystack. Yeah, that's when you 575 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.000 started investigating this event. You came at it more from 576 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.280 the perspective of because of you heard you heard of 577 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.000 the Bigfoot connection to it. Do you know at any 578 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:22.920 time were were ufologists at all involved with receiving like 579 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:27.400 similar information from this area? Only you know, at times 580 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:34.079 even nowadays, I mean UFOs or UFOs, Bigfoot is Bigfoot. 581 00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:39.920 There there are people that don't seem to mind having 582 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:44.880 the conversation that they could be intertwined some way, But 583 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.360 for the most part they're two separate completely. You know, 584 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:51.840 the UFOs don't want to talk about Bigfoot and the 585 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.119 bigfooters don't want to talk about UFOs. I think it's 586 00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.880 starting to it's starting to mellow some now. 587 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.159 It probably is due to the fact that you've got 588 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:06.320 the Internet, and there's so much stuff on the Internet. 589 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.000 You just can't help but run across the information. 590 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:12.000 But you know, I got to go back to again, 591 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.199 this was nineteen eighty one, and I don't know of 592 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:23.639 any other stories that really combine all of the elements 593 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:29.480 that are in the field notes from nights. They put 594 00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.480 checkbooks or check marks in so many different boxes for 595 00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.880 all of these different high strangeness. And then then you 596 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:41.400 bring up hearing on audio that the family had members 597 00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.280

that thought that they were even possessed. And I don't 598 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.280 even know that there was any mention of that in 599 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:50.840 nights Aege. 600 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.719 I don't think there was, you. 601 00:38:53.679 --> 00:39:00.280 Know, so that adds completely completely different context to all this. 602 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.599 Yeah, what what did. 603 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:08.880 He make out of the multiple entities being three toad 604 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:13.199 being five toad? I know at one point there were 605 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:16.000 some tracks that were found that were five toed I believe. 606 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.000 But around each one of the prints that were found, 607 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:26.719 the wheat or the grass that was around it were 608 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.440 they were swirled almost in the fashion like you would 609 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:36.400 expect to see something from a crop circle around the 610 00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:39.599 around the feet the you know, like there was some 611 00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:43.000 kind of spinning vortex of of wind or whatever that 612 00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:49.719 knocked everything down concentrically around the footprints. I mean, how like, 613 00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.079 what were those conversations like with this gentleman. 614 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:57.679 You know, what I can recall of it was that 615 00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:02.199 he was just basically he was there because it was 616 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.519 close to his own property. He was a paranormal investigator 617 00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:14.039 UFO Bigfoot, and he went out there to see what 618 00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:16.880 was going on, and kind of, as the old saying goes, 619 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:18.840 he got stuck between a rock and a hard place. 620 00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.880 He was literally caught in the middle of it several times. 621 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:28.280 I think his opinion, I'm fairly certain. I could say 622 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.360 that his opinion what I gathered of conversation with him, 623 00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:33.880 would be that it was UFO connected without a doubt, 624 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.719 due to the fact that the strange lights in the 625 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.159 sky and the entities with beams of light that looked 626 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.519 like flashlights and things of that sort, I'm pretty sure 627 00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:49.840 that he was convinced it was UFO connected. I mean, 628 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.599 what other reason is there that you can't find a 629 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.639 sasquatch creature that's been shot at with a shotgun and 630 00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:00.760 relatively close range and there's no evidence whatsoever left behind. 631 00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:05.599 I mean, it kind of be akin to Scotty beaming 632 00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:09.400 up kirk off

of an alien planet. You know, where 633 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.840 is it going? What? How does you how do you 634 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:16.039 explain that If I've always been of the opinion that 635 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:18.119 this thing is a flesh and blood entity, and I 636 00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:21.519 still believe that that is the case flesh and blood. 637 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.719 But I got to tell you, you know, it's. 638 00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.920 While it's here, well it's. 639 00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:28.880 Here, yeah, I mean, you know, and then once it 640 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:33.840 gets beamed up on the Jupiter two or whatever, it 641 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:34.840 becomes something else. 642 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.559 So you know, what what did this whole thing do to? 643 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:44.079 I mean, because you've you pretty much got to to 644 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:47.719 look behind the curtain, you know where with the Great Oz, right, 645 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.280 so you got to see behind the the curtain with 646 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:58.880 the guy who actually was on site during these experiences 647 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:06.119 and recorded them. So your early years of bigfoot research 648 00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.760 were just that. For the most part, you had an 649 00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:13.519 interest in UFOs, but you were primarily a bigfoot researcher. Correct, 650 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:17.880 What did that? What did that do to? Was there 651 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:20.440 a paradigm shift at this point? 652 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.519 You know? The skeptic in my mind kept telling me, 653 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:30.119 these guys are cuckoo for cocoa puffs. They've got to 654 00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:33.360 be misinterpreting something along the line, and all these people 655 00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:37.199 cannot be This stuff just can't be going on the 656 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.039 way they're saying is going on. There's no way, shape 657 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:43.559 or form. I'm a physical flesh and blood believer, and 658 00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:47.119 these guys are telling it on audio cassette tape and 659 00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:50.840 also in this put in this publication that hey, folks, 660 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:57.719 it's not a flesh and blood creature. You know, I 661 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:00.960 don't know. I can understand why a lot of people 662 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:05.559 believe more that UFOs and alien creatures exist and what 663 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.400 they came Bigfoot, because it's easy to dismiss the light 664 00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.559 in the sky that just slipped over the top of 665 00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.719 your head and then went into outer space. And hey, 666 00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.039 there was a UFO. Must have been little green men 667 00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:20.280 from Mars and by the way, there it goes. So 668 00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:23.559 they exist because I just saw it disappear in fifteen 669 00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.159 seconds while I was watching it. But on the other hand, 670 00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:30.679 you talk to people like RENEA. Hinton, John Green, Grover Krantz, 671 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.960 and others that have seen not scores, not dozens, hundreds 672 00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:39.159 of tracks left one after the other after the other 673 00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:44.440 in a dusty road in Bluff Creek, California, where Patterson 674 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:48.679 shot the famous Patty film in October of sixty seven. 675 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.679 And here's your flesh and blood evidence, because the dang 676 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.480 thing just left the series of tracks that nobody can 677 00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:02.800 deny unless you're a diehard skeptic. So then you gotta 678 00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.039 I mean, look, it would be a lot easier for 679 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:11.079 me to say people that see UFOs have nothing better 680 00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.400 to do on the weekend. The date with their girlfriend 681 00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:15.559 was canceled because you wanted to go out with the 682 00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.440 girls and watch some kind of a movie or whatever, 683 00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.119 and so it's boring. And by the way, I just 684 00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.800 seen a light fly overhead. It was green and flashing 685 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.119 red and blue and yellow and white and all this stuff. 686 00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:28.880 So I guess what, honey, I seen a UFO while 687 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.519 you was out, you know, on your pajama party with 688 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.920 the girls. If the point is, if I hadn't seen 689 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.239 what I've seen in my lifetime in nineteen seventy six 690 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.039 and one year after that, that I am ninety nine 691 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:45.719 point ninety nine nine percent sure didn't belong to anything 692 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.840 that I'm aware of, then I would be a lot 693 00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:51.800 easier in saying these things are physical, flesh and blood. 694 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.400 Don't talk to me about UFO connections because I don't 695 00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:56.719 want to hear it. I've never seen a UFO, it's 696 00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:02.400 not happening. But when you see the UFO with your 697 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.840 own eyes in nineteen seventy six, hovering just above treetop 698 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.000 level for more than what appeared to be ten to 699 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.679 fifteen minutes, and it followed you for four miles, not fast, 700 00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:16.119 not slow, going the same speed as the car, and 701 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.639 no more than tree top level high, following you for 702 00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:24.239 four miles into the country. Then it

becomes a much 703 00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:28.519 more difficult thing to say they're not connected with UFOs. Now, 704 00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:30.599 I am not of the opinion at this point in 705 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.280 time as I sit here that these things are connected 706 00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:39.159 to UFOs. There is no tangible physical evidence that they are. 707 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:43.599 There has never been video or photographs of a creature 708 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:47.239 being beamed upon a UFO from the ground that I'm 709 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.920 aware of that being's the case. Taking the attitude that 710 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.159 I'm from Missouri, the show me state, it's not been 711 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:58.280 shown to me. It's not connected, plain and simple. 712 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.440 Now, I'm going to assume that that description of the 713 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:09.360 object that followed followed the car, that was an experience 714 00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:10.679 that you actually had. 715 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:17.880 Correct, Yes, unfortunately, But that's what got me into the 716 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:20.159 big foot stuff because of the fact that that was 717 00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:22.360 in the summer of seventy six. There were nine or 718 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:25.679 ten family members who were standing there together watching this 719 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.119 thing just above tree top level, hovering there without making 720 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.039 even the whisper of a noise. You could see lights 721 00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:33.559 on the top of it. You could see lights on 722 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:35.280 the bottom of it. You could see what appeared to 723 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.480 be a row of windows with lights on the inside 724 00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:42.840 of it. And then it disappears in the flash of light. 725 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.760 And I don't mean that there was literally a flash 726 00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:46.400 of light. But one second it's there and the next 727 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:47.320 second it's gone. 728 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:49.280 Do you recall a shape to it? 729 00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.079 Oh? Well, you know I mentioned Jupiter too earlier, like 730 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:59.559 lost in Space. Yeah, bingo. You can't make this stuff up, 731 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:03.679 you know, Yeah, I was putting the wrong place at 732 00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:07.079 the wrong time. Jack, there it is. I know what 733 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:09.679 I seen, and my mom even refers to that incident 734 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:13.800 from time to time out of the blue. Oh yeah, 735 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:19.400 so it happened. We know what we observed. But guess what. 736 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.400 There was no beam of light that either picked up 737 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.320 or dropped the big Foot out of that beat that 738 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:28.000 spacecraft that night that we know of. So I can't 739 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:31.440 say that they're connected, right, And you know, it might 740 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.800 sound like that. I take a very simplistic viewpoint on 741 00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.639 whether or not something like that is tied together. But 742 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:41.719 what else are you supposed to do? Don't make the 743 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:48.199 don't complicate things more so than what they are already 744 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.320 by trying to make it more bizarre or more complicated. 745 00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:56.119 Well, you know that the only other thing that really 746 00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:01.719 like this entire series of events, the only thing that 747 00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:08.960 to my mind, comes even close are when you take 748 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:16.880 into consideration the vast number of things that were recorded 749 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:25.199 by Bigelow and the now current owner of Skinwalker Ranch, 750 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.320 even to the even to the part of you know, 751 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:45.800 like spiritual manifestation or demonic infestation, the the complete weird, 752 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:53.199 overarching inclusion of like nearly all high strangeness in this 753 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.400 one in this one thing. And I keep going back 754 00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.559 to nineteen eighty one. I don't think people had the 755 00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:05.840 brain power or the I don't want to say the intelligence, 756 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:13.360 but the ingenuity to weave all these things together back then. 757 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:17.119 You know, now we have you know, we have all 758 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:20.639 the different AI and you got people making you know, 759 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:25.440 videos that show a big foot running through the forest 760 00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:28.480 and getting chased by UFO and all that. I mean, 761 00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:33.079 now I understand it. But for that time, for eighty one, 762 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:40.880 that's a pretty significant departure from from a normal paranormal experience. 763 00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:44.360 Right yeah. I mean, you know, you did not have 764 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.960 the resources back then, nor did you have the high 765 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.280 speed communication devices like you had with instant text messaging 766 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:56.679 or Facebook messaging or email or whatever. I mean, you know, 767 00:49:56.840 --> 00:50:05.119 other than some big time companies manufacturing IBM computers or whatever. Uh, 768 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:09.679 you just didn't. You didn't have it. And that's one 769 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:12.360 of the things that's very interesting about this. What our 770 00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:16.239 downfall uh as a society, in my opinion, is the 771 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.679 AI and

things of that sort from here on out. 772 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.119 I mean, unless you're an expert, you know, you're going 773 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:24.000 you're not gonna be able to look at anything and say, well, 774 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.039 that could be or could not be. 775 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.039 No, it's it's it's for for people that are like 776 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:34.000 you and I and and our interest in this, and 777 00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:40.159 you know it. It removes all credibility. You'll spend more 778 00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:42.960 time trying to figure out if something was AI generated 779 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.800 than you would trying to figure out if this was 780 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:51.159 hoaxed or you know, how they how they filmed it. 781 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:54.760 It's just it's it's a terrible it's a terrible thing. 782 00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:57.039 I understand that it's powerful and it can be used 783 00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:03.280 for good, but right now, at least in this realm, 784 00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.360 I don't I don't see any good coming of it, 785 00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:06.360 you know. 786 00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.719 Roger Patterson shot the footage October twentieth or sixty seven 787 00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:18.039 with a sixteen millimeter sound movie camera. Yeah, And in 788 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.639 my basement right now, I have a thirty five millimeter 789 00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:28.400 Shannan single line reflection SR camera. So my proposal is, 790 00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.360 if you want to get real serious and if you 791 00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.920 actually happen to know where there's a curis asquatches and 792 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.199 you want to get some good photos of them, and 793 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.599 you want to be taken serious about it, a negative 794 00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:40.639 does not lie. 795 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:43.679 Right, don't leave it up to a digital image. 796 00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:47.119 Right, start going back to the negative film. They will, 797 00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:49.719 they will. You know, I've got to get an instant 798 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.400 look at it on your viewfinder, but you're going to 799 00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:56.039 have a much better chance of being taken very seriously 800 00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:59.199 and having it considered legitimate as compared to the but 801 00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:03.119 digital wiz or AI or anything like that there are. 802 00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:05.880 That's a very interesting point because I wanted to go 803 00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:15.760 back to you at you're meeting with Belitchous in the book, 804 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.760 he he said several times that there were a number 805 00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:28.400 of color photographs that were taken during their their time 806 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:33.039 spent there at the time when you were with him, 807 00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:37.159 did he did he come forward with any other photographic 808 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:42.960 evidence of of things that you could tell appeared to 809 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.360 be odd. 810 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:48.559 You know, he may have, but it's been so long 811 00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:51.280 ago that I just don't recall. The one photo in 812 00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:54.760 particular that I recall was that photo of it looked 813 00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:56.639 like it was just somebody shooting at a poor rooid 814 00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:00.559 camera into the darkness, with the exception of the beam 815 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:03.599 of light or the light and the light source that 816 00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:06.039 was in the photo at some point someplace in the photo. 817 00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:08.079 I don't know what it was where it was, that recall, 818 00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:12.119 but that's the only thing that I can remember he 819 00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:16.400 showed me. I think he showed photographs of several of 820 00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:22.320 the footprints, but no no photos of something else that 821 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.800 could be considered to be evidence of a Sasquatch or 822 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.000 a UFO or anything of that sort. 823 00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:32.119 Well in the book, you know, I'm I'm grateful that 824 00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:37.559 they that it's still available to get your hands on. 825 00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:46.480 But the the terrible quality of the folk, the footprints, 826 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:52.840 the three toad footprints found at Rock Creek, I mean, 827 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:55.360 I could be looking at anything here, you know. 828 00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.800 I'm looking at I'm looking at those photos, as you know. 829 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.639 I mean, they look like they were at one time, 830 00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:05.840 probably a decent photograph, and they were put onto a 831 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:09.639 photocopy or sent through a fax machine and then sent 832 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.719 to a printer who duplicated it. And I mean, they're 833 00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:17.119 just they're got awful. It looks like chalk drawings on 834 00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:21.800 a gravel road, and that's that's about all you can 835 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:27.119 glean off of it. But I sure would have been 836 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.599 interesting to be able to take a look through that 837 00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.039 box of his his stuff that he had. 838 00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.159 That was I would like to know what happened to 839 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:41.199 all the stuff that he had. I don't know. I 840 00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:45.079 don't Obviously, both of his parents had been deceased when 841 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:49.559 he passed, and I don't recall any conversation that he 842 00:54:49.639 --> 00:54:52.079 had any kids, and I don't recall any conversation that

843 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:57.320 he was ever married. So what happened to the material 844 00:54:57.400 --> 00:54:59.280 that was in the boxes that were in the house 845 00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:03.239 at Rome, Ohio back in nineteen eighty six, everybody knows, 846 00:55:03.320 --> 00:55:07.800 Let us know, because that would be like a veritable 847 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.320 gold mine to find that stuff and to be able 848 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.679 to go through it and examine it again. I'm sorry, 849 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:16.320 go ahead, I was just gonna say that I would 850 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.719 just open up a new can of worms on the 851 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:22.239 Rock Creek and Rome, Ohio incidents. And don't you find 852 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:25.599 it kind of peculiar. Think about this for just a minute, 853 00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:29.639 into into a mind where sound and site have no 854 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:34.840 meaning whatsoever. You listen to this stuff. The first incident 855 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.360 that was reported in the book, do you recall where 856 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:41.119 it took place? I guess where the last incident took place? 857 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:43.239 Rock Creek? 858 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:48.599 Really, yes, Now, why did the first one take place 859 00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:52.360 during June of eighty one in Rock Creek? Then the 860 00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:56.599 events took place near the house near Rome. And then 861 00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:58.840 the last thing that took place during nineteen eighty one 862 00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:03.360 that we're aware of October eleventh, was the footprint on 863 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:07.159 the dirt pile near Rock Creek. 864 00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:09.880 That's where the kid was sitting. 865 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:12.360 Correct, that's where the kid is stooped down looking at 866 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:14.639 the camera. Yeah, he's got a he's got a yardstick 867 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:18.679 sitting there beside the footprint. But yeah, that's right. So 868 00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:26.239 why what's so special about Rock Creek? That's one thing 869 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:30.159 that somebody has got to ask or answer, if at 870 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:34.280 all possible, the question of why did it start in 871 00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:37.280 the vicinity of Rock Creek and why did it end 872 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:41.079 in the vicinity of Rock Creek? What's the connection? If 873 00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.599 I if I remember correctly, correct me, if I'm wrong. 874 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.760 But if I remember correctly, wasn't there a set of 875 00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:48.639 railroad tracks that went through that vicinity? 876 00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:54.320 Yes? Remember, I believe the the trackway was still there, 877 00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:57.800 but the tracks had been removed, I believe. 878 00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:03.719 Okay, So go to the somewhere of nineteen eighty five 879 00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:09.519 and take a look at a railroad tracks that went 880 00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:12.599 down through Newcomerstown and down through the post Boy Tunnel, 881 00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.320 and those tracks had been removed, but there were a 882 00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:21.960 slew of tracks footprints discovered adjacent to those railroad tracks 883 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:25.239 that railroad bed as it led toward the post Boy 884 00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:28.719 Tunnel just about two miles south in their Cumberstown and 885 00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:33.039 incidents took place there a lot of times animals if 886 00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:34.880 they're in a heavily forested area or they have a 887 00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:36.679 lot of thickets or whatever they got to go through. 888 00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:40.000 Or Okay, let's say people, I've done it a number 889 00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:44.079 of times and myself, what course of transport to what 890 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.440 course of a path am I going to take in 891 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:49.599 the forest. That's the easiest course of path that I 892 00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:52.000 don't want to deal with the multi floor of rose 893 00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:00.360 bushes and everything else like that. It's the yeah, a trail, yep. 894 00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:06.679 So you know, maybe these things were discovered along the 895 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:11.000 road track bed in June and again in October around 896 00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:14.599 the Rock Creek area because it was the easiest trail 897 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:15.920 to navigate. 898 00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:21.079 You know, this takes me back to I think you 899 00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:25.719 and I had either discussed this prior to recording the 900 00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:29.360 last time, or we may have touched on it while 901 00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:35.119 we were recording my experience, I didn't see it. I 902 00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:37.400 don't know what it was. All I know is that 903 00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:41.360 in typical fashion of being paced out of the woods, 904 00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:44.280 that's essentially what happened. In anybody who's listened to this 905 00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:49.880 show any number of times, well, I've revisited that multiple times. 906 00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:52.800 The one thing that I don't know that I've ever 907 00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:59.760 touched on is during the event that I had take place, 908 00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:08.760 there was a clear cut because there was a pipeline 909 00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:15.320 that had gone through that area and crossed the property 910 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:19.119 that I was able to hunt. There was a gas 911 00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:25.000 pipeline that had been put in there, and there was 912 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:27.760 a gas pipeline that was being put in in nineteen 913 00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:35.960 eighty one in

the in the story the events in Rome. 914 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:42.320 So again it's a path of least resistance. It's a 915 00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:49.280 natural corridor. If animals were looking to find an easy 916 00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:53.920 way from one place to another. It certainly makes sense 917 00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:59.679 that they would follow that and that pipeline, in my experience, 918 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:05.800 directly intersected with the area that I had my pacing 919 01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:07.559 out of the woods. 920 01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:13.000 Huh, that's a lot of times there were encounters that 921 01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:15.719 took place down there along those railroad tracks just outside 922 01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:21.440 of the Cremerastown. Even myself and another guy, Tom Archer, 923 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:25.079 during this late summer of eighty five, feel as if 924 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.239 we were being paced something was inside the woodline, and 925 01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:32.639 we caught onto the fact that it was walking along 926 01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:36.000 with us. So he used a hand motion to get 927 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.440 us to stop, and we stopped, and we could hear 928 01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:43.000 two or three more steps that sounded bipedal, and then 929 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.719 it stopped and we didn't hear it again until you know, 930 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:52.320 after we continued to walk. So you never know what's 931 01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:52.840 around you. 932 01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:59.679 This is a truly bizarre story. So after your three 933 01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:06.360 hours with with that gentleman, Dennis Pillaches, what was your 934 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:09.280 what was your takeaway? Like you got in the car 935 01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:15.119 and you and the uh, the wannabe rocker Mark Francis 936 01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:20.880 right right, what what was I guess what was his 937 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.800 reaction to what he was hearing while you guys were there, 938 01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:27.000 and what was your conversation like when you got in 939 01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:28.599 the car and started heading home. 940 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:33.519 What I can remember his reaction was pretty much the 941 01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:35.440 same as mine. It would have been. We looked at 942 01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:39.199 each other and thought, did we just hear what we heard? 943 01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:41.280 Did we just see what we've seen? Did we just 944 01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:44.239 actually get fortunate enough that we was able to talk 945 01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:53.079 to politicus in person? That's one of those situations where 946 01:01:55.679 --> 01:02:01.320 to answer your question, oh, what can you say about it? 947 01:02:01.480 --> 01:02:08.639 I mean, there's you know, you've talked to the guy 948 01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:12.840 who is number one in investigations at

the property, within 949 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.239 a few miles of his residence, within a few miles 950 01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:18.440 of where you're sitting, literally when you were talking to him, 951 01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:25.639 within a few miles of there. Uh, And you know what, 952 01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:30.920 all you can all you can think about is you 953 01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:35.519 know what now? Was he pulling our legs just to 954 01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:37.559 try and see how far we would go with this? 955 01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:41.639 But then on the other hand, he's telling us the 956 01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:48.639 same stories, the same encounters, the same accounts that we've 957 01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:51.519 heard at the Track County Ufostetic group from various people 958 01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:54.239 who have knowledge of the incidents or the case or 959 01:02:56.239 --> 01:03:03.559 so you know why, I mean, like I guess the 960 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:07.199 only thing I could say, is again hindsight being twenty twenty, 961 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:09.320 is that I wish it would have had a tape 962 01:03:09.320 --> 01:03:17.559 recorder to record the conversation. And I think somewhere in 963 01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:20.079 my archives, and I would have to look it up. 964 01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:23.199 And if you knew how vast my archives were in 965 01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:26.400 the basement, you know my reluctance as to digging in 966 01:03:26.480 --> 01:03:32.719 the stuff. But somewhere I've got to have some type 967 01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:36.360 of photographs that I may have taken of some of 968 01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.519 the stuff that politic has had in his possession with 969 01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:46.880 his blessings. I'm fairly certain I took a photograph of 970 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:51.519 the parachute cord, and I think I may have. Don't 971 01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.239 hold me to it, but I may have taken a 972 01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:56.079 photo and this is what thirty five millimeter again, may 973 01:03:56.079 --> 01:03:58.280 have taken a photo of a photo that he showed 974 01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.519 us of the light in the field darkness. 975 01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:05.280 Did you happen to take photos of any of the casts? 976 01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:08.960 Oh? I probably did, but I would just have to 977 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.360 look and see where they're at and things of that sort. 978 01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:18.440 But yeah, I really wish that I would have I 979 01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:20.559 really wish that I would have asked permission to get 980 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:28.719 copies of the audio and had recorded Coligious myself on 981 01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:29.559 a tape recorder. 982 01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:38.320 How did he describe the people that lived on the farm? 983 01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:42.239 And I guess, and you don't have to answer this 984 01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:46.079 to the listeners, but were you ever made aware of 985 01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:51.840 the family name of the people the farm the homestead? 986 01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.199 I was, I was, but I don't recall what it 987 01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:58.440 was offhand. And I was made aware of the name 988 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.000 of the road as well, And I I don't know 989 01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:03.760 that it's mentioned in the publication. I don't think that 990 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:04.119 it is. 991 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:08.920 And they refer to him as Robert S. 992 01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:15.599 I think I believe this. It was, Yeah, yep. So 993 01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:19.360 I mean, I know that the last name was mentioned 994 01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:22.440 to me a couple of times, and I know the 995 01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:24.039 name of the road is mentioned to me a couple 996 01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:28.079 of times. But then again here again hindsight's twenty twenty. 997 01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:31.800 You learn from experience. That's the most important thing to 998 01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:33.760 do is take notes, take notes, take notes. 999 01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:38.679 Did he did he indicate anything like, I mean, obviously 1000 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:40.599 there's some high straining us with a couple of the 1001 01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:43.440 people that lived there as well the family members, But 1002 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:46.280 I mean, for the most part, did he indicate that 1003 01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.119 these were pretty level headed, normal salt of the earth 1004 01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:53.159 people and had no reason. 1005 01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:56.199 This is yeah. I mean, this was a family who 1006 01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.880 in May of nineteen eighty one was going about their 1007 01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:02.639 daily routine as if they were the average typical family 1008 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:05.800 off the street. They didn't want publicity or notoriety or 1009 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:07.920 anything to that effect. As far as I'm aware and 1010 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:11.039 as far as I've been told, they just have to 1011 01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:19.639 be thrust into this situation where strands and bizarre activity 1012 01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:25.199 starts taking place on their property. You know. So they 1013 01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:31.760 were average Joshmo from cocain Mo people that had no 1014 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:36.119 interest whatsoever in fame or notoriety. That's why they didn't 1015 01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:39.039 have a lot of people out there investigating the stuff 1016 01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:39.880 as it was going on. 1017 01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:43.199 I got one more I got one more question for you, 1018 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:45.840 and I think I think we can call this good. 1019 01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:52.360 So at the time when you had this conversation with 1020 01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:58.360 Pillaches and you had

formed an opinion of the things 1021 01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:00.840 that he had told you, and the things that you 1022 01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:05.440 were made aware of, the legitimacy of the tapes and 1023 01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:11.679 all these things, taking into consideration all of the different 1024 01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:17.000 aspects of the high strangeness that was taking place there. Now, 1025 01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:22.239 reflecting on that forty years later, how has that changed 1026 01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:35.400 your view of the enigma of Sasquatch Bigfoot. Well, I 1027 01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:37.400 know it's a it's a that's a big one. I 1028 01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:39.880 know it. 1029 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:42.480 It is a big one. But it's a simple answer, 1030 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.880 and I don't think it's really changed my opinion or 1031 01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:51.159 my viewpoint at all. I'm a very bullheaded individual with 1032 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:53.320 some people that know me very well will tell you, 1033 01:07:54.320 --> 01:08:00.239 and my opinion is still that you know, it's Asian 1034 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:09.320 blood entity that leaves tracks. And that's as far as 1035 01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:15.679 I can really say. It's until I'm until I see 1036 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:18.920 some other kind of proof for evidence that says that 1037 01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:25.680 it's connected with UFOs and Bigfoot is friends with et 1038 01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:32.000 you know it's That's that's where I stand on the 1039 01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:39.840 on the matter. My my two UFO siding is one 1040 01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.640 in nineteen seventy six and the other I don't recall 1041 01:08:42.680 --> 01:08:45.680 what the year was, early two thousands, like late nineties, 1042 01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:54.039 early two thousands. Those are entirely separate incidents to the 1043 01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:57.640 big Foot phenomena. And I say that because the fact 1044 01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:02.079 that those took place not within hours or days of 1045 01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:06.279 Bigfoot activity taking place in the same geographical location, but 1046 01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:12.399 they took place months or years later, you know, in 1047 01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:17.039 the areas where months or years later bigfoot activity may 1048 01:09:17.079 --> 01:09:20.279 have taken place within a certain geographical location, or where 1049 01:09:20.279 --> 01:09:23.600 the UFOs aiding took place. Now, the one UFO shiding 1050 01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:26.119 took place was that took place was here in town, 1051 01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:29.560 you know, as me and another guy, and that was 1052 01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:32.079 in the late nineties, And of course the first one 1053 01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:34.119 in seventy six was out in the country about four 1054 01:09:34.159 --> 01:09:39.520 miles outside of their Coomerstown. So that's you know, I 1055 01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:44.319 just I separate the two with what information I have 1056 01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:50.600 on them. But I don't think I don't think that 1057 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:53.600 my opinion has really changed that much as to what 1058 01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:57.439 Bigfoot could be. One day, maybe we'll find out what's 1059 01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:03.600 going on. But you know, if there's anyone that's listening 1060 01:10:03.640 --> 01:10:07.880 that was directly associated with the Rome, Ohio incidents as 1061 01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:10.600 they took place, or if you know any first or 1062 01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:14.479 secondhand information about it, get a hold of me. I'm 1063 01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:18.000 happy to talk to you, and I'm also happy to 1064 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:19.720 keep you anonymous. 1065 01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:22.560 And the same goes for me. You can get if 1066 01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:23.760 you need to, you can get a hold of me, 1067 01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:28.199 and I can get information passed on to to don 1068 01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:32.159 or or at least put you in contact with him about. 1069 01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:36.840 That yeah, yeah, yeah, because there I can't help but 1070 01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:39.840 think there's there's more out there about this that hasn't 1071 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:44.880 been talked about because it's in somebody's file for order, 1072 01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:47.119 or it's a cassette tape that hasn't been listened to. 1073 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:51.399 And I'll be quite honest about it. Not too long 1074 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:54.279 after I heard the incident on the cassette tapes about 1075 01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:58.119 the possible possession with the water and the hand experiment, 1076 01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:03.159 I quit listening to him. That that was enough for me? 1077 01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:09.840 Oh really, oh yeah, I'm like, oh, so okay, so 1078 01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:14.960 you know what else? What else is going to be 1079 01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:17.319 talked about on these tapes? And I didn't listen to 1080 01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:19.760 twelve tapes. I didn't listen over twelve hours. And what 1081 01:11:19.840 --> 01:11:22.039 I got listened to, and that was on the second 1082 01:11:22.119 --> 01:11:25.760 or third tape, that was enough. That that was enough. 1083 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:28.680 If that's what these things really are, then there's no 1084 01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:31.760 sense in investigating them any further, because there's no way 1085 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:35.239 you're going to find tangible evidence that proves that they exist. 1086 01:11:35.560 --> 01:11:39.279 And science requires a body, or the majority of a body, 1087 01:11:39.359 --> 01:11:42.279 to prove that it exists. I asked doctor Groover Krantz, 1088 01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:45.479 sitting in Vancouver, BC at the Planetarium in nineteen ninety 1089 01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:49.600 seven at the Sasquatch Symposium. And I knew him before that, 1090 01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:52.039 but I asked him. I said, Groover, just you know, 1091 01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:55.520 flat out tell me what what do you need to 1092 01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:59.279 prove that Bigfoot exists? And he told me on the 1093 01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:01.119 phone before I went out there in ninety seven. He 1094 01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:04.399 also told me this in person. He said, science requires 1095 01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:07.680 a body, and if science cannot get a body, it 1096 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:11.800 requires the majority or the very important pieces of a body. 1097 01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:15.319 What are the important pieces? Those are the extremities, and 1098 01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:18.960 those extremities are both hands, both feet, and the head. 1099 01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:23.399 If you can stomach getting them, collecting them and then 1100 01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:25.840 get out of there with your life, get it to 1101 01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:28.079 them they're a scientist, and keep it as low key 1102 01:12:28.159 --> 01:12:28.800 as possible. 1103 01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:34.760 Don Keating, thank you so much for your insight into 1104 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:45.039 this utterly weird Northern Ohio invasion creature invasion. The book 1105 01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:48.720 again is Night Siege the Northern Ohio UFO Creature Invasion 1106 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:54.600 by Dennis Pilachus. You've been listening to Don Keating, who 1107 01:12:54.680 --> 01:12:58.800 is a renowned researcher, and the topic of bigfoot in 1108 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:03.960 UFO and in Ohio. I appreciate it, sir. It's always 1109 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:06.840 great talking to you. Look forward to seeing you again. 1110 01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:11.239 Thanks. I appreciate you having me on and you know, 1111 01:13:11.920 --> 01:13:14.720 everyone should keep an open mind. The answer is out 1112 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:16.880 there somewhere. It just takes a matter of luck and 1113 01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:17.960 finding it. 1114 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:21.720 It's out there, it definitely is. Thank you so much, sir, 1115 01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:23.600 Thank you, good night.