התמלול המלא של Truth's Table Looks Back: Enduring "Diabolical Times" with Dr. Bernice A. King

04:08.475 --> 04:19.360 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm uncomfortable with trying to talk about it too much because I have to get myself in sync inside has to be consistent with outside. 04:19.901 --> 04:20.801 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's another thing. 04:20.881 --> 04:21.622 [SPEAKER_02]: I love brownies. 04:22.042 --> 04:22.222 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:22.242 --> 04:22.402 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:22.422 --> 04:22.582 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:22.602 --> 04:22.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:22.842 --> 04:23.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:23.062 --> 04:23.222 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:23.242 --> 04:23.402 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:23.422 --> 04:23.583 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:23.603 --> 04:23.763 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:23.783 --> 04:23.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:24.003 --> 04:24.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:24.243 --> 04:24.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:24.443 --> 04:24.603 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:24.623 --> 04:24.803 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:24.823 --> 04:24.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.003 --> 04:25.163 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.183 --> 04:25.343 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.363 --> 04:25.523 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.543 --> 04:25.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.724 --> 04:25.884 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:25.904 --> 04:26.064 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:26.084 --> 04:26.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:26.264 --> 04:26.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:26.444 --> 04:26.604 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 04:26.624 --> 04:26.784 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:26.804 --> 04:26.964 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:26.984 --> 04:27.184 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:27.204 --> 04:27.364 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:27.384 --> 04:27.544 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:27.564 --> 04:27.725 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:27.805 --> 04:27.965 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:27.985 --> 04:28.165 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:28.185 --> 04:28.365 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:28.525 --> 04:28.685 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:28.705 --> 04:28.885 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:28.905 --> 04:29.245 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:29.265 --> 04:29.605 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:29.666 --> 04:29.886 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:29.906 --> 04:30.146 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:30.266 --> 04:30.486 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:30.606 --> 04:30.926 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:30.966 --> 04:31.186 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:31.206 --> 04:31.386 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:31.426 --> 04:31.707 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:31.727 --> 04:31.987 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:32.067 --> 04:32.247 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:32.267 --> 04:32.467 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:32.487 --> 04:32.647 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:32.667 --> 04:32.827 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:32.847 --> 04:33.027 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:33.047 --> 04:33.267 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:33.287 --> 04:33.547 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:33.567 --> 04:33.728 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on. 04:34.068 --> 04:34.288 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on. 04:34.308 --> 04:34.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on. 04:34.848 --> 04:39.372 [SPEAKER_02]: And I always tell people, well, you know, I was born into a legacy. 04:39.412 --> 04:57.828 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little bit different, you know, if you don't feel like your family has had any significant or left any significant thing behind for another generation, then you search a lot, you know, you're looking for, you know, your niche, whatever. 05:02.211 --> 05:04.712 [SPEAKER_02]: and work that got interrupted, frankly. 05:05.872 --> 05:07.732 [SPEAKER_02]: There's not finished, there's not complete. 05:07.792 --> 05:11.493 [SPEAKER_02]: That's still very essential in needed in our world. 05:11.853 --> 05:20.275 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, for me, I'm very passionate about non-violence and what it means in today's world. 05:22.435 --> 05:29.517 [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is I, at one point in my life, I still love music. 05:31.134 --> 05:36.398 [SPEAKER_02]: But if I drove up to the church down the street, I'd be in my car, you could hear. 05:36.418 --> 05:38.679 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you could get me. 05:38.839 --> 05:48.086 [SPEAKER_02]: OK. And I wanted my youth leader said, if that music won't paint playing, you knew something was going on with Bernice. 05:48.146 --> 05:50.888 [SPEAKER_02]: But as I've grown and gotten to this point in my life, 05:51.348 --> 06:14.962 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm more for quietness, literally, I mean, when I wake up in the morning, I don't have on, you know, CNN, I look at all of them, I'll be honest, when I do look at Fox, MSNBC, CNN, I don't want to be a one-sided individual, I want to see what everybody's saying, but in the last year or so, 06:16.198 --> 06:17.460 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been different. 06:17.821 --> 06:20.184 [SPEAKER_02]: When I wake up, I like to be quiet. 06:20.224 --> 06:25.252 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be a center, you want to ground myself. 06:26.045 --> 06:32.691 [SPEAKER_02]: I want a lot of Holy Spirit to infuse himself in me because there's a lot going on in the world. 06:33.331 --> 06:34.392 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to keep my sanity. 06:34.893 --> 06:36.174 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to keep my sanity. 06:36.614 --> 06:38.095 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to keep my sanity. 06:38.195 --> 06:39.777 [SPEAKER_02]: That's another thing about me. 06:39.797 --> 06:41.978 [SPEAKER_02]: They're probably someone with many other things. 06:43.119 --> 06:44.000 [SPEAKER_02]: I like to have fun. 06:44.921 --> 06:46.322 [SPEAKER_02]: People think I'm so serious. 06:46.422 --> 06:47.863 [SPEAKER_02]: Some people say you never smile. 06:47.903 --> 06:49.665 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, well, I don't know who you've been checking out. 06:49.825 --> 06:51.386 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, because I love this smile. 06:51.426 --> 06:57.671 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a professor in theology school to sit laughing in fact it's jogging on the inside. 06:57.691 --> 07:02.655 [SPEAKER_02]: So I've learned to laugh more even at things out of serious. 07:02.795 --> 07:03.656 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's awesome. 07:03.716 --> 07:06.778 [SPEAKER_02]: And not to say that make any light of it. 07:07.398 --> 07:15.665 [SPEAKER_02]:

But to laugh in a way so that you don't lose your mind, those are just, you know, a few things. 07:16.005 --> 07:17.246 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you. 07:17.266 --> 07:17.566 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 07:17.606 --> 07:18.647 [SPEAKER_02]: That was wonderful. 07:18.687 --> 07:20.188 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we really appreciate it. 07:20.668 --> 07:25.272 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had the pleasure of hearing you speak at an event just about a month ago. 07:26.333 --> 07:42.086 [SPEAKER_00]: For an organization that's dedicated to work around youth ministry here, and they were here in Atlanta for conference, and one of the things that struck me is, as you were giving your talk, you talked about the times that we're in right now, and you described them as diabolical times. 07:42.186 --> 07:47.450 [SPEAKER_00]: That phrase, those words, they stuck to us, and we've talked about it quite a bit since that time. 07:48.051 --> 07:52.675 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love for you to unpack that a little bit for us, as someone who, 07:53.178 --> 07:55.680 [SPEAKER_00]: has deeply studied history, who has been a part of history. 07:55.700 --> 07:57.040 [SPEAKER_00]: You talked about your family's legacy. 07:58.161 --> 08:02.984 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it about these times right now that will cause you to describe them as diabolical? 08:04.265 --> 08:06.706 [SPEAKER_02]: Evil, living in very evil times. 08:08.067 --> 08:10.809 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, for me, I think something's been unleashed. 08:12.149 --> 08:20.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And this nation that gives permission for people to not live at the higher self. 08:21.033 --> 08:26.695 [SPEAKER_02]: And so there's a lot of inhumane things taking place. 08:28.055 --> 08:33.017 [SPEAKER_02]: Almost, if I might be frank, almost at an animalistic level. 08:33.438 --> 08:34.538 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when I watch, 08:35.466 --> 08:43.324 [SPEAKER_02]: Ice agents, just snatching people, you know, separating, you know, families and just running up on people. 08:43.484 --> 08:45.849 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a way to... 08:47.188 --> 08:51.310 [SPEAKER_02]: do their job without violating the humanity of people. 08:52.111 --> 09:03.477 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's very disturbing that a human being does not see this other person as a human being deserving of dignity. 09:04.678 --> 09:06.238 [SPEAKER_02]: So you see things like that. 09:06.779 --> 09:12.122 [SPEAKER_02]: There are ways in which people are acting today, very callous and cold-hearted. 09:14.003 --> 09:17.266 [SPEAKER_02]: That is just crazy to me. 09:20.508 --> 09:22.050 [SPEAKER_02]: There's something I can't say publicly. 09:22.570 --> 09:29.115 [SPEAKER_02]: But some of it comes out of some things that I feel and sense about leadership in this country. 09:29.776 --> 09:31.337 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not being led. 09:31.357 --> 09:34.600 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just limit it this way. 09:37.722 --> 09:39.424 [SPEAKER_02]: We know how much 09:40.321 --> 09:44.105 [SPEAKER_02]: the

Bible encourages us to pray for those in authority. 09:44.506 --> 09:44.766 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 09:44.986 --> 09:47.188 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a reason, so did you maybe a piece. 09:48.230 --> 09:49.731 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that people are praying. 09:50.051 --> 09:52.074 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's suggesting that people are not. 09:54.076 --> 09:57.439 [SPEAKER_02]: But we have some unrighteous people sitting in 09:58.220 --> 10:14.100 [SPEAKER_02]: seats of political authority acting in unrighteous ways that are bringing hurt, harm, and damage to individuals, purposely traumatizing people playing with lives, and so for me, 10:16.532 --> 10:25.399 [SPEAKER_02]: That's evil, you know, it's indicative of who Satan is, who comes to kill, steal, and destroy. 10:25.959 --> 10:39.990 [SPEAKER_02]: And we see evidence of that all the way around, you know, trying to kill people's, you know, peace of mind that they just kill off their, you know, their sanity, kill literally. 10:41.431 --> 10:42.813 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, although, you know, 10:43.633 --> 10:54.841 [SPEAKER_02]: For people to run for office today they have to be prepared to have their lives literally threatened right now when I was you know when I was you know growing up 10:56.075 --> 11:02.382 [SPEAKER_02]: not that that was not the case in the black community at the time, you know, living under threat. 11:03.123 --> 11:10.592 [SPEAKER_02]: But in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you just never heard of people having the face being threatened. 11:10.992 --> 11:11.313 [SPEAKER_02]: Over. 11:11.333 --> 11:11.813 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 11:11.853 --> 11:12.954 [SPEAKER_02]: My new stuff. 11:13.675 --> 11:14.336 [SPEAKER_02]: That's evil. 11:15.337 --> 11:36.833 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people's children, their spouses, for no reason, you know, I just don't like what you represent, so boom, you know, I just, you need to be taken out, yeah, for the, for the answer to be, for the response to be a denial of human dignity. 11:37.534 --> 11:37.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 11:37.994 --> 11:39.315 [SPEAKER_00]: And then just the way in which, um, 11:44.957 --> 11:59.988 [SPEAKER_02]: People have treated all over the world, I mean, what's happening in various parts of the world in Africa, we know, there's countries there, countries in the Middle East, Gaza, yes. 12:01.949 --> 12:04.011 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just can't... 12:05.061 --> 12:09.203 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't understand the destruction of a people. 12:09.343 --> 12:10.123 [SPEAKER_00]: It is overwhelmed. 12:10.163 --> 12:13.565 [SPEAKER_02]: Looking for terrorist groups. 12:14.586 --> 12:15.246 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't get that. 12:17.767 --> 12:23.450 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's just evil and it's all in the name of greed, power, control, 12:30.893 --> 12:31.574 [SPEAKER_02]: of all levels. 12:31.714 --> 12:47.063 [SPEAKER_02]: So when you think I've seen a rise and you know this there's love of money that the wrong relationship with money That's being very destructive to some of my life Absolutely absolutely 12:47.543 --> 12:56.887 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Dr. King, as we were walking up to the King Center, I see our steps and I saw non-violence or non-existence. 12:57.727 --> 13:08.032 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about, you know, your own father's words and talking about the need of to attack systems, right, the root of injustice. 13:08.412 --> 13:15.237 [SPEAKER_01]: but not people, as we're talking about on righteous rulers, and we're talking about evil. 13:15.698 --> 13:22.063 [SPEAKER_01]: These diabolical times, can you talk about the importance of maintaining the humanity of one's enemy? 13:22.563 --> 13:30.389 [SPEAKER_01]: Even as we attack systems and not people, and why it's important for people to uphold the humanity of our enemy. 13:30.790 --> 13:30.950 [SPEAKER_01]: But 13:31.810 --> 13:36.613 [SPEAKER_01]: And because of what's a cost, what is that stake if we don't? 13:37.793 --> 13:50.500 [SPEAKER_02]: Destruction, self-deject stake, but you know, as a Christian, you know, I can't help but always remember Jesus's words to us as ammunition to love your enemies, bless them that Christian. 13:50.580 --> 13:51.300 [SPEAKER_02]: Do good to them. 13:51.700 --> 13:53.081 [SPEAKER_02]: This is part of people's skip over. 13:53.121 --> 13:53.901 [SPEAKER_02]: Do good to me. 13:54.241 --> 13:58.283 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I want to repeat that one, do good to them that hate you. 14:00.285 --> 14:04.268 [SPEAKER_02]: and then pray for them to respectfully use your own persecute you. 14:05.109 --> 14:08.872 [SPEAKER_02]: We talk about that part, the praying for. 14:08.892 --> 14:09.953 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 14:10.693 --> 14:15.137 [SPEAKER_02]: But we have a hard time with the rest of us. 14:15.317 --> 14:16.879 [SPEAKER_02]: Love, enemies. 14:19.661 --> 14:20.402 [SPEAKER_02]: Bless them. 14:21.463 --> 14:24.365 [SPEAKER_02]: That curse you and do good to them that hate you. 14:26.654 --> 14:33.297 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, first it's a mandate for those of us who are followers of Jesus Christ. 14:36.039 --> 14:52.127 [SPEAKER_02]: Secondly, if the outcome is justice, that what data calls true peace, which is not just the absence of tension but the presence of justice, if that's the outcome you are seeking, 14:56.008 --> 15:01.951 [SPEAKER_02]: seeking to destroy people, because you're trying to get to an outcome of true peace. 15:02.772 --> 15:08.935 [SPEAKER_02]: Well you're not just trying to steal the quiet things down or stop the conflict. 15:08.955 --> 15:15.078 [SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to bring into being a true order of justice and community. 15:15.798 --> 15:18.940 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you always have to keep the 15:19.660 --> 15:39.362 [SPEAKER_02]: The dignity of the individual at the core of that, as a result of that, from a moral standpoint, as I said, with Christ's mind, it's just, but practically, you can't expect to get to humane and just outcomes. 15:39.933 -->

15:42.454 [SPEAKER_02]: if you're inhumane and unjust yourself. 15:42.474 --> 15:49.258 [SPEAKER_02]: And the danger is if we continue, if people do that, it becomes contagious, obviously. 15:49.338 --> 15:51.299 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 15:51.800 --> 15:53.241 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it gets out of control. 15:53.401 --> 15:55.362 [SPEAKER_02]: And then what we have is a lot of chaos. 15:56.564 --> 16:02.028 [SPEAKER_02]: And we know what happens is a descending spiral begins to repeat itself over and over again. 16:03.149 --> 16:09.073 [SPEAKER_02]: And so nonviolence gives us the kind of discipline that we need to guard against that. 16:10.774 --> 16:12.235 [SPEAKER_02]: There is an inherent 16:13.035 --> 16:26.598 [SPEAKER_02]: Dignity and worth in every individual spark of the divine as we call it or in that Christian faith The Amago day not sometimes it's hard to see it and find But non-violence can help to unearth it. 16:26.818 --> 16:39.862 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you know if done appropriately if it embraced appropriately Not as something that you just embraced as a one-time measure, but as a way of life it has an ability to 16:43.272 --> 16:54.839 [SPEAKER_02]: shine and mirror almost in the face of those who involved in the hostility and the hate and the oppressive ways if it's practiced appropriately. 16:54.879 --> 16:59.923 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, some people may not, you know, be prick by that. 16:59.943 --> 17:02.284 [SPEAKER_02]: They may not be appealed to it. 17:03.044 --> 17:03.225 [SPEAKER_02]: But 17:04.405 --> 17:05.766 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know who those people are. 17:05.786 --> 17:06.646 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 17:07.126 --> 17:16.629 [SPEAKER_02]: So, our responsibility, nonetheless, is to maintain the posture, of non-violence because the outcome that we're looking for. 17:17.010 --> 17:26.933 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the reasons when the bus boycott was over then my father spent time talking to everybody about how we should be once we return to the buses. 17:27.280 --> 17:32.562 [SPEAKER_02]: he wanted to guard against folks and how you like me now, you know, you know, we beat you. 17:32.602 --> 17:33.743 [SPEAKER_01]: We beat a job. 17:33.863 --> 17:34.903 [SPEAKER_02]: I can see how that happened. 17:34.943 --> 17:36.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it can easily happen. 17:36.424 --> 17:44.087 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, yeah, but he was saying this was not, this was not a win over the white community. 17:44.507 --> 17:46.108 [SPEAKER_02]: This was a win for justice. 17:46.188 --> 17:46.508 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:46.728 --> 17:50.950 [SPEAKER_02]: And he also went on to say, this is an adjustment for them. 17:57.506 --> 18:20.153 [SPEAKER_02]: how to ride side by this is a new experience for them and so we want to have the kind of posture that we're not agitating anything but we are actually helping them to learn how to see us as they are equal to them to treat us with the dignity that 18:21.043 --> 18:22.905 [SPEAKER_02]: they are demanding to be treated with. 18:23.745 --> 18:26.167 [SPEAKER_02]: So you have to emulate that, you know. 18:26.768 --> 18:29.410 [SPEAKER_02]: I do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 18:29.650 --> 18:29.990 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:30.411 --> 18:31.371 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like non-violence. 18:31.411 --> 18:36.796 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an invitation, right, for our enemy to become who God has created them to be. 18:36.856 --> 18:37.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that actually that? 18:38.337 --> 18:39.718 [SPEAKER_02]: That's actually a good way to be. 18:40.979 --> 18:45.884 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, right, and a reminder of who we are as well to not lose sight of that. 18:48.126 --> 18:50.028 [SPEAKER_00]: Your father's metaphor about the world house. 18:50.668 --> 19:02.540 [SPEAKER_00]: You talked about this earlier, but I want to go back up to the Sudan, Congo, Palestine, and what feels like, um, 19:03.628 --> 19:15.599 [SPEAKER_00]: such a deep inability to recognize and see the humanity and others, and I'm just curious as you look at our landscape, not just nationally, but internationally, and this metaphor of the worldhouse, our interconnectedness, our interdependence, that's a part of the world. 19:15.619 --> 19:16.059 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been reading. 19:16.079 --> 19:16.299 [SPEAKER_00]: You know? 19:16.319 --> 19:30.852 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've been reading this, you've 19:31.112 --> 19:32.233 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it like this? 19:32.614 --> 19:37.238 [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, these are questions that the only Lord God Almighty can answer for us, but yeah, exactly. 19:37.258 --> 19:37.999 [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say it. 19:38.520 --> 19:42.083 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the same table, you get to pontificate a little bit. 19:42.263 --> 19:48.890 [SPEAKER_00]: That inability to see the humanity of people right now in the Congo and Sudan and Palestine. 19:50.932 --> 19:54.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you believe that is so piercing at this moment? 19:56.616 --> 20:04.181 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know if it depends on who you're talking about because that's a broad stroke of people. 20:05.322 --> 20:13.708 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think in general, I don't think it's people's inability. 20:14.809 --> 20:16.610 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that's what you said inability to see it? 20:16.710 --> 20:17.931 [SPEAKER_02]: It just people seem stuck.

20:19.516 --> 20:24.918 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, first of all, most of us are not raised to have a world perspective. 20:26.059 --> 20:33.882 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're not raised to really care beyond our particulars, you know? 20:34.683 --> 20:39.865 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, our family, our group, as a specific, that's what a community is. 20:40.105 --> 20:40.905 [SPEAKER_02]: A community. 20:41.005 --> 20:44.807 [SPEAKER_02]: And so self-savival is real for people. 20:47.188 --> 20:52.673 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many things happening in and around people right now, especially in this season. 20:53.533 --> 20:59.038 [SPEAKER_02]: Some people are just trying to survive themselves so they can't think outside of what's happening with them. 21:00.639 --> 21:07.045 [SPEAKER_02]: So you really have to be raised with that kind of thinking and mindset, and you have to be challenged that way. 21:07.885 --> 21:29.165 [SPEAKER_02]: And we don't do enough for that, you know, we had this America first policy, which is not just America first, it's America only policy, the way I look at it, because there's no care and concern for what happens outside of our nation, not even recognizing the interdependence, the interrelativeness and the interconnectiveness. 21:30.166 --> 21:33.328 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's where people really struggle. 21:33.348 --> 21:44.878 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I think, and I don't want to delve into something else, but what non-violence does is it expands your ability to see past some. 21:44.918 --> 21:46.679 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a very other centered model. 21:47.540 --> 22:06.032 [SPEAKER_02]: So it helps to cultivate that sense of other centredness, you know, as you study, you can read it, but as you study it, particularly in the context of a group setting, there are things that are brought forth that allow you to be able to reflect and begin to open your mind, 22:06.512 --> 22:28.782 [SPEAKER_02]: to a broader world, and it sensitizes people to realize, wait a minute, you know, because once you go through the training and you understand the underpinnings of the principles of non-violence, and how one of those underpinnings is that interconnectedness, that interdependence, that interconnectedness, 22:32.338 --> 22:41.455 [SPEAKER_02]: your horizon extends and then things like the Congo, the Sudan, all of that begins happening. 22:41.495 --> 22:42.397 [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is... 22:43.534 --> 22:52.718 [SPEAKER_02]: there's so many things happening all over the world and I think it's overwhelming and it's just as your head spinning and it's like where do you start? 22:52.738 --> 22:57.001 [SPEAKER_02]: because most people when I talk to them they feel overwhelmed, like what do we do? 22:57.521 --> 22:58.281 [SPEAKER_02]: where do we start? 22:58.321 --> 23:05.885 [SPEAKER_02]: this isn't, this isn't, you know, and unfortunately there is there's not any collective strong 23:06.745 --> 23:07.386 [SPEAKER_02]: leadership. 23:08.487 --> 23:12.631 [SPEAKER_02]: They're leaders, but we're missing the collective to help. 23:12.711 --> 23:15.133 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of direct and guide in that way. 23:15.673 --> 23:21.578 [SPEAKER_02]: My father was able to articulate in his time, all of these connections. 23:21.939 --> 23:27.964 [SPEAKER_02]: He did a lot of that, even as he was in Montgomery with the bus protests, he traveled to other countries. 23:28.880 --> 23:44.665 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, they learned about our struggle, but as he traveled, he talked about the intersection of what was happening in the United States of America and what was happening, you know, in nations, in Africa at that time. 23:44.705 --> 23:52.707 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, he compared it and said, we're moving it, or some buggy pace to us, I've freed him, but Africa is moving at a quicker pace. 23:53.387 --> 23:55.928 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're missing that kind of 23:57.408 --> 24:03.552 [SPEAKER_02]: uh, leader now, leaders that are connecting the dots because everybody's kind of in these silos. 24:03.932 --> 24:04.173 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 24:04.413 --> 24:04.753 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 24:05.513 --> 24:13.118 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, um, I have, I have also, you know, noticed that, particularly is in our activist type circles. 24:13.238 --> 24:14.619 [SPEAKER_01]: People are overwhelmed, as you said. 24:14.639 --> 24:21.564 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and people are burdened with the things that, the people that are aware are burdened with the things that are happening in 24:23.565 --> 24:25.585 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't know what they have, they fry your powerless. 24:25.705 --> 24:27.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they feel disempowered, right? 24:27.626 --> 24:35.147 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so what do you do is they're saying, what can I do to make a difference across, you know, the warden, yeah, I mean. 24:35.187 --> 24:42.548 [SPEAKER_02]: So if there's no guidance, there's no vehicle, you know, people don't know. 24:42.648 --> 24:49.830 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the real challenging thing, and I was saying this to somebody that's 24:52.570 --> 24:56.273 [SPEAKER_02]: all of us are using platforms that are part of the exploitation. 24:56.613 --> 24:57.734 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 24:57.995 --> 25:00.096 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's think about all this we're doing right now. 25:00.156 --> 25:04.280 [SPEAKER_02]: It's helping us get these very messages out that need to be gotten out. 25:04.300 --> 25:07.182 [SPEAKER_02]: That's, however, that's the irony of all this. 25:07.222 --> 25:09.344 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the challenge of all of this. 25:09.925 --> 25:13.047 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you took all of that away, we really wouldn't know. 25:14.128 --> 25:14.508 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 25:15.509 --> 25:16.570 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do? 25:16.590 --> 25:29.238 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you decide it, um, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, buy an iPhone, you know, what do you do if you say about a star saying, okay,

we're not going to use the iPhones well. 25:29.779 --> 25:31.840 [SPEAKER_02]: It's our means of communication. 25:31.920 --> 25:33.321 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very tricky, right? 25:33.722 --> 25:34.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 25:34.622 --> 25:35.022 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how 25:43.890 --> 25:51.392 [SPEAKER_02]: that we began to develop and train young people and children in a love for humanity. 25:51.432 --> 25:51.572 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 25:51.672 --> 25:54.553 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we got to do something different. 25:54.593 --> 25:57.574 [SPEAKER_02]: We lived in such a materialistically driven world. 25:57.594 --> 26:01.175 [SPEAKER_02]: His daddy said, we live in a world where our scientific... 26:01.535 --> 26:06.520 [SPEAKER_02]: and I technologically abundance has outpaste of how moral and ethical growth and development. 26:06.600 --> 26:06.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 26:07.200 --> 26:16.208 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and if we don't do something to correct that, you know, the things that are happening all over the place will continue to escalate. 26:16.228 --> 26:16.488 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 26:17.169 --> 26:21.272 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, nothings of substance will be done to correct it. 26:21.873 --> 26:26.137 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we've got a shift of priorities. 26:26.958 --> 26:35.887 [SPEAKER_02]: and center ourselves as he said rapidly began the shift from a thing or to a person similar side and raise a new generation like that. 26:36.287 --> 26:44.556 [SPEAKER_02]: So that we will see different policies emerge in other nations that these kind of things aren't happening that way. 26:44.976 --> 26:45.256 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:45.376 --> 26:46.337 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's hard to work. 26:46.957 --> 26:48.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's that. 26:48.037 --> 26:48.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 26:48.897 --> 26:51.538 [SPEAKER_01]: That takes some, uh, that's not great. 26:51.718 --> 26:52.979 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, it's like a glint. 26:53.019 --> 26:54.439 [SPEAKER_01]: That takes some, it's worth a spirit. 26:54.459 --> 26:54.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:54.679 --> 26:59.041 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not going to necessarily happen in one generation. 26:59.081 --> 27:03.262 [SPEAKER_02]: But there has to be a, a perpetuation as it be in perpetuity. 27:03.522 --> 27:03.682 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 27:03.702 --> 27:12.505 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm talking about, we have to, you have to decide and be intentional that in just as we've been intentional, there's been intentionality around what has been created. 27:13.705 --> 27:17.988 [SPEAKER_02]: And that way, we have to be intentional about correcting, undoing, and correcting. 27:18.208 --> 27:18.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 27:19.208 --> 27:19.448 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 27:20.269 --> 27:29.274 [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. King, I think that was rich, you know, and I'm thinking about non-violence as a way of life, which you've said here many times. 27:30.254 --> 27:41.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Not just here, but thinking about the place of non-violence in our current context, in light of late stage capitalism, in light of the ubiquity of AI, right? 27:41.720 --> 27:49.463 [SPEAKER_01]: and you talked about our iPhones right, which I have, you know, and just like how exactly, you know, what, how do we adapt nonviolence? 27:50.004 --> 27:51.564 [SPEAKER_01]: It are current contexts. 27:51.724 --> 28:02.089 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that what I'm kind of wrestling with and have been wrestling with with some of my comrades, if you will about some of the boycotts, you know, which I support. 28:02.649 --> 28:06.631 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel like it's always hitting the target, no pun intended, 28:12.053 --> 28:38.113 [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes it really does feel like sometimes we're missing the target right in that it's like we it's not just sitting down at the the the the lunch counters now right and we're like okay where we're causing we're hitting the direct target here where it just feels like everything is so interconnected now and it's hard to disentangle ourselves from now so how do we employ non-violence in our current context considering what part of 28:41.495 --> 28:44.138 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're not seeing the outcomes, it's because we haven't studied it. 28:45.079 --> 28:45.399 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 28:45.519 --> 28:49.043 [SPEAKER_02]: We just try, what we've done is we adapted what we saw. 28:49.283 --> 28:50.084 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, it's okay. 28:50.124 --> 29:01.035 [SPEAKER_02]: Or heard about in documentaries, brief encounters with something somebody posted, one training. 29:01.557 --> 29:05.999 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people when they go through out, you know, training and feel like I'm ready to take it on. 29:06.900 --> 29:10.622 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's so many depths to non-violence, to truly understand it. 29:10.642 --> 29:12.563 [SPEAKER_02]: You got to undergo your actions. 29:14.109 --> 29:24.455 [SPEAKER_02]: The steps that we call it, with the principles, there's a spirit of heart, there's mindfulness and emotional intelligence that goes into the action. 29:25.576 --> 29:30.039 [SPEAKER_02]: And so many people haven't taken that time because it's what we're faced with is urgent. 29:30.339 --> 29:30.539 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:31.099 --> 29:32.200 [SPEAKER_02]: And we gotta do something now. 29:32.460 --> 29:32.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 29:34.081 --> 29:40.685 [SPEAKER_02]: But the now has to be undergird and with the right principles, with those principles. 29:41.600 --> 29:43.622 [SPEAKER_02]: Strategy is very important. 29:44.382 --> 29:45.363 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't mimic. 29:46.484 --> 29:56.032 [SPEAKER_02]: I always tell people when Jesus came down from the Malatransfiguration and the gentleman who had the epileptic son approached him. 29:56.132 --> 30:00.836 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, and said, you know, I brought him to your disciples and they couldn't, they couldn't do anything. 30:00.856 --> 30:01.677 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have the juice. 30:01.777 -->

30:03.218 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have the juice. 30:03.519 --> 30:07.202 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he, somebody said, he cursed at his disciples. 30:07.242 --> 30:07.362 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 30:08.883 --> 30:22.538 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know how long shall I suffer you and then he had to juice and deal with this serum And the disciples came to him and Why could people read this scripture different way than what the Holy Spirit is to me. 30:22.979 --> 30:24.040 [SPEAKER_02]: You know how come we couldn't 30:25.085 --> 30:27.927 [SPEAKER_02]: How can we couldn't just like you did Jesus? 30:28.068 --> 30:33.913 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, something's coming out but through fasting and praying. 30:34.093 --> 30:36.695 [SPEAKER_02]: And some people say, okay, you got fast and pray. 30:37.436 --> 30:40.999 [SPEAKER_02]: What Holy Spirit revealed to me is, they had been with Jesus all the time. 30:41.019 --> 30:42.280 [SPEAKER_02]: I see you're minding them about that. 30:42.300 --> 30:42.680 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I see. 30:42.720 --> 30:43.501 [SPEAKER_02]: You still don't get it. 30:44.662 --> 30:47.584 [SPEAKER_02]: They did not recognize 30:48.365 --> 30:54.648 [SPEAKER_02]: that Jesus did what he saw the Father do and he said what he heard the Father said. 30:54.688 --> 31:05.813 [SPEAKER_02]: He spent into the time with the Father, getting instruction and guidance for the particular situation. 31:06.333 --> 31:10.875 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a different prescription for every situation, and we try to mimic. 31:11.656 --> 31:12.876 [SPEAKER_02]: So today it seems 31:17.033 --> 31:34.390 [SPEAKER_02]: and hold up a sign, because that's what they've seen, but if you don't have the spiritual undergirding to really deeply reflect, to do the necessary information gathering, and information gathering can't be from the perspective of how can I win? 31:34.910 --> 31:41.878 [SPEAKER_02]: It has to be for the broader, you know, the broader win, even the people who we call adversary. 31:42.339 --> 31:45.062 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to just win over them, you want to win them over. 31:45.222 --> 31:48.446 [SPEAKER_02]: And you want to make sure that other people come into the movement. 31:48.466 --> 31:49.046 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 31:49.126 --> 31:50.948 [SPEAKER_02]: On the sidelines, that they understand. 31:51.229 --> 31:55.293 [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to be articulate all of the issues. 31:56.154 --> 32:20.002 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, holistically, even from the other person's perspective, because to even know how to address it or how to tap into it You got to know, quote unquote, they're not negative triggers, but what would trigger them to say, you know, so you got to study them Yes, and we don't we don't we don't do this so there's a hope that's true studying 32:20.862 --> 32:29.124 [SPEAKER_02]: Immersion ongoing that has to take place so that he said in 64 Doing his nonviolent. 32:29.444 --> 32:50.230 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean doing his Nobel Peace Prize lecture in Oslo at the University He said I suggest that the philosophy and strategy of nonviolence immediately Become a subject of study and series experimentation in every field of human conflict by no means excluding relations 32:50.683 --> 32:52.384 [SPEAKER_02]: between nations." 32:52.644 --> 32:59.146 [SPEAKER_02]: He knew then that there were deeper depths that needed to be explored around non-violence. 32:59.746 --> 33:02.207 [SPEAKER_02]: He knew then that there was more. 33:03.307 --> 33:11.730 [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't necessarily know what all that was at the time, and I'm sure he did some deeper dives himself even after 33:20.713 --> 33:35.664 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what kind of may not work for that particular situation, you know, and what's the what's the goal we're seeking and does everybody understand it and and and and why you know and even the people 33:37.137 --> 33:40.198 [SPEAKER_02]: who may not be quote-unquote aligned with us. 33:40.278 --> 33:43.160 [SPEAKER_02]: You want them to understand the importance of the goal. 33:43.220 --> 33:45.281 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really important. 33:45.481 --> 33:48.842 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so it's just so much but it's the study of. 33:49.062 --> 33:55.405 [SPEAKER_02]: And how do you balance that with the drive to want to do something? 33:55.445 --> 33:55.705 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 33:55.745 --> 33:56.765 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be honest. 33:56.885 --> 33:59.066 [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie's a king. 33:59.086 --> 33:59.707 [SPEAKER_02]: I was talking to 34:01.725 --> 34:22.237 [SPEAKER_02]: one of my senior trainers here just yesterday and she just reminded me of my father saying I'm tired of marching for what should have been my long time ago so I'm sad to be my dad watching this and other things right that are effective in non-violence but we have to study it and once you even study it again 34:23.457 --> 34:27.839 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't prescribe for you what I prescribe for you when I'm looking for as a doctor. 34:28.359 --> 34:31.040 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, you have different genetics. 34:31.440 --> 34:34.141 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the limitation of science to the medical science. 34:34.781 --> 34:36.862 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that we're not using the power genetics. 34:37.502 --> 34:42.183 [SPEAKER_02]: We're just using general because it's driven by capitalists in the money. 34:42.404 --> 34:42.924 [SPEAKER_00]: We're sure. 34:43.624 --> 34:43.924 [SPEAKER_00]: So. 34:44.844 --> 34:45.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:45.285 --> 34:45.725 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. 34:47.125 --> 35:00.075 [SPEAKER_00]: As I listen to you, I'm just thinking about the importance of what it takes to study, to commit oneself, to studying, understanding, to the way that humility and patience has to hold hands, even as we have the zeal, to see injustice be dismantled. 35:00.335 --> 35:02.376 [SPEAKER_00]: I am so grateful for this time talking with you. 35:02.396 --> 35:06.920 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to take a little bit of a

break, who will be right back with Dr. Bernice A. 35:06.940 --> 35:07.120 [SPEAKER_00]: King. 35:09.382 --> 35:21.777 [SPEAKER_00]: So why do you say, well, foundation, you know, for a long time, we had been committed to hearing from and amplify what we believe are some of the most important voices in the world. 35:22.503 --> 35:25.585 [SPEAKER_00]: the voice of Black Christian women throughout the entire diaspora. 35:26.285 --> 35:35.270 [SPEAKER_00]: And the foundation is our attempt to further amplify those voices, but to invest in those voices, we know that they're important. 35:35.290 --> 35:43.314 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that the world needs to hear the ideas, and the wisdom of Black Christian women, and we know how society has been shaped and changed by that. 35:43.814 --> 35:44.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's our hope. 35:44.855 --> 35:48.237 [SPEAKER_00]: Our hope is to help equip Black women wherever they are with what they need. 35:48.950 --> 35:52.692 [SPEAKER_00]: to do the work that they're called to to positively affect that place. 35:53.272 --> 36:02.537 [SPEAKER_00]: What I need you to do is to pray deeply for the protection and for the advancement and the empowerment of Black Christian women. 36:02.937 --> 36:11.622 [SPEAKER_00]: What I also need you to do is to survey the resources that God has given you, which is a blessing from God, not to hoard, but to extend. 36:12.062 --> 36:14.663 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you survey those resources, think to yourself, 36:18.585 --> 36:23.729 [SPEAKER_00]: in this organization, which I know is committed to investing in the lives of Black Christian women all over the world. 36:24.909 --> 36:38.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And that means taking stock of what you have, financial resources, networks, locations, curriculum resources, you name it, take stock of what can I give, right? 36:39.059 --> 36:44.523 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of us wake up every morning, we count our blessings, and so maybe think about what does it mean to count the blessings that you have, 36:45.103 --> 36:48.430 [SPEAKER_00]: and which of those blessings can you use to be a blessing to true stable foundation? 36:57.530 --> 37:01.132 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it came to you brought up AI, you know, we took it all the time about it. 37:01.152 --> 37:03.893 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't feel like changing, changing, changing all the time. 37:03.913 --> 37:13.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Chad, I'm nicknamed ChadGPT, Chaddy, and I have a degree of shame that I use Chaddy a bit more and more as a weekend. 37:13.537 --> 37:17.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we all use it, so I know, sometimes I'm like, it's Chaddy using us. 37:17.679 --> 37:34.238 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes 37:34.766 --> 37:38.391 [SPEAKER_00]: being outpaced by technology, the honoring of human dignity. 37:38.972 --> 37:49.388 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear you talk more about that as we are in a cultural context where it feels like we need to be using these things in order to keep up and yet at the same time. 37:50.709 --> 37:53.310 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a real character deficit that is happening. 37:53.330 --> 37:54.811 [SPEAKER_02]: We definitely have a character deficit. 37:55.491 --> 38:14.923 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things also that, in light of that my father warned against is that if we don't, what I said earlier, if we don't address that chasm between our scientific and technological progression with our spiritual moral, we set ourselves up possibly for 38:16.748 --> 38:25.364 [SPEAKER_02]: misuse in those instruments and end up destroying ourselves on you know and the misuse of those instruments that ends up in destroying ourselves. 38:26.345 --> 38:26.566 [SPEAKER_02]: So 38:29.060 --> 38:47.104 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, from a biblical standpoint, I feel that nonviolence is aligned with the word of God because it's based off of the Christ model, who's serving on the mountain, without a doubt. 38:47.184 --> 38:51.405 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot that you can unpack that, unpack there. 38:54.646 --> 39:03.775 [SPEAKER_02]: Jesus operated in a dimension in the realm that we can operate into and I always tell people and what I mean by that is I tell people that 39:05.725 --> 39:12.547 [SPEAKER_02]: There's natural intelligence, there's artificial intelligence, but there's spiritual intelligence, this is a period to all of that. 39:13.868 --> 39:21.850 [SPEAKER_02]: And we have all the things that have been created, have that capacity, and we got to cultivate that and develop that. 39:22.950 --> 39:24.511 [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's another plane, 39:25.852 --> 39:29.919 [SPEAKER_02]: of thinking that we can operate on that AI will never be a traverse. 39:30.179 --> 39:32.222 [SPEAKER_01]: That's no matter what they learn from us. 39:32.262 --> 39:32.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 39:32.723 --> 39:34.185 [SPEAKER_01]: It does not have. 39:34.346 --> 39:35.668 [SPEAKER_01]: It's God. 39:35.688 --> 39:36.609 [SPEAKER_01]: The. 39:38.780 --> 40:02.573 [SPEAKER_02]: Essence of God is not downloaded in A.S., never will be, because God chose us as the crown of His creation, and so we have to begin to, nonviolence can help to develop that spiritual intelligence and tap us into a part of, you know, as you know, we don't use most of our brain, and it's there to be, you know, 40:03.738 --> 40:16.546 [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing all of these explorations around so much other stuff, but how many of us

explore and how do we tap into these other parts of our brain and how do we 40:18.006 --> 40:26.949 [SPEAKER_02]: really begin to operate from this higher as daddy called a higher plane of dignity and discipline, a higher spiritual plane. 40:27.149 --> 40:29.170 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the challenge going full. 40:29.990 --> 40:38.633 [SPEAKER_02]: For those of us, in particular, in the Christian community, those from any faith tradition, because that's what's called no punitive and going to trump everything. 40:41.134 --> 40:41.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Good one. 40:42.235 --> 40:50.778 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'm curious about the work, you know, of the King Center now, you know, you as a CEO. 40:50.898 --> 40:55.260 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious about how you're orienting the work of the Center. 40:55.380 --> 40:56.961 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a funny question. 40:58.101 --> 41:04.123 [SPEAKER_02]: Because when I saw it, I was struggling because this is this. 41:05.743 --> 41:14.726 [SPEAKER_02]: Unlike most of the organizations, we don't necessarily have to orient, because this time is what needs nonviolence. 41:14.926 --> 41:15.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 41:15.486 --> 41:16.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you get what I'm saying? 41:17.447 --> 41:17.627 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 41:18.387 --> 41:24.589 [SPEAKER_02]: The nonviolent approach, the nonviolent mindset, the nonviolent communication. 41:24.769 --> 41:25.090 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 41:25.370 --> 41:30.151 [SPEAKER_02]: And so within our organization, that is the whole focus. 41:30.171 --> 41:30.812 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is our time. 41:35.513 --> 41:52.119 [SPEAKER_02]: We are challenged like a lot of people right now, financially, so we've been restricted in some of the ways that we can engage because of that and we will recover and we'll be able to do the things that we need to do. 41:52.139 --> 41:56.420 [SPEAKER_01]: There are certain things that we've been doing here and now to keep people. 41:56.480 --> 42:02.642 [SPEAKER_02]: For everything we do, like for instance, on social media, if you notice, we try to bring people back to, 42:03.348 --> 42:28.102 [SPEAKER_02]: the power of non-violence in this time, but it means in this time because all this craziness we can't be in the business of calling people out, non-violence calls you in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in the way, in 42:28.522 --> 42:37.549 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, go back and forth and bannering with each other a little bit of a high Yes, yes, and sometimes it, you know It feels good for the adrenaline. 42:37.890 --> 42:46.616 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, save it for the group chat Save it for the group chat Exactly, and that's another thing, you know 42:47.517 --> 42:51.878 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a pastor once said to me, appropriate settings. 42:52.998 --> 43:02.741 [SPEAKER_02]: I understand that now, but you have to know where you can say then, you know, because we're human. 43:03.281 --> 43:07.462 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be triggered all of us by things that have happened in different ways. 43:09.442 --> 43:17.885 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, I might be triggered, but I know what my true center is, you know, I care about humanity, I love humanity. 43:18.546 --> 43:23.668 [SPEAKER_02]: Even the people who act in evil and wicked, I'm concerned about them, you know. 43:26.129 --> 43:29.450 [SPEAKER_02]: But I also understand there's a place for God and all of this. 43:30.310 --> 43:37.173 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say that in this conversation because as we are having these different conversations and different settings, 43:38.037 --> 43:44.981 [SPEAKER_02]: everybody, you know, gets on edge about what's happening, and I said, don't ever forget there's a God-effect. 43:45.522 --> 43:47.923 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you weren't there. 43:48.163 --> 43:50.865 [SPEAKER_02]: I did another sermon this past. 43:52.486 --> 44:05.614 [SPEAKER_02]: Summer, and it says, now on to him who's able to do exceeding abundantly above all we can ask or think, or think, according to the power that works 44:06.524 --> 44:07.765 [SPEAKER_01]: in us. 44:08.385 --> 44:13.807 [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, we are restricting that power that's in us. 44:13.887 --> 44:19.070 [SPEAKER_02]: We have things that are blocking the power of God to operate through us. 44:19.150 --> 44:23.972 [SPEAKER_02]: So we resign ourselves and say, well, you know, 44:24.687 --> 44:46.668 [SPEAKER_02]: Look what's happening with the government, look what's happening with this, we don't, according to the power, now untouchable, he's able to do more than we are trying to fight for, and ask what think beyond whatever we can imagine, but we have to be open to that power working in and through us, even opening our minds 44:47.309 --> 44:53.214 [SPEAKER_02]: to solutions and ideas that we ain't ever considered, because he sees it all. 44:53.254 --> 44:54.055 [SPEAKER_02]: He knows it all. 44:55.516 --> 44:58.578 [SPEAKER_02]: And we got to come outside of the boxes that we are in. 44:58.618 --> 45:01.481 [SPEAKER_02]: We used to operate in certain frameworks. 45:01.621 --> 45:03.382 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is the way this works. 45:03.442 --> 45:03.723 [SPEAKER_02]: So, 45:04.867 --> 45:08.148 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we can only do the fine solutions with the net. 45:08.228 --> 45:12.370 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, no, I mean, how do you think of all these things that emerged through time? 45:12.410 --> 45:12.870 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 45:13.130 --> 45:19.092

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so I believe in divine innovation. 45:19.492 --> 45:19.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:20.032 --> 45:20.672 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 45:20.912 --> 45:21.933 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm praying for, too. 45:22.813 --> 45:23.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man. 45:23.433 --> 45:28.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, violence in oftentimes is a one-trick pony. 45:29.155 --> 45:33.277 [SPEAKER_00]: Non-violence has this redemptive, expansive creativity, 45:35.125 --> 45:35.246 [SPEAKER_00]: and 45:35.762 --> 45:39.444 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think about that as you talk about the work of the King Center. 45:39.464 --> 45:40.664 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to bring us back to that. 45:40.724 --> 45:47.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Even as I heard you just note the restriction of resources that are impacting many great organizations right now. 45:47.907 --> 45:56.311 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want our listeners to just pause and to really think about why it is important to make a commitment to supporting the work of the King Center. 45:56.431 --> 46:01.753 [SPEAKER_00]: And why it's important to embrace nonviolence, not as simply a strategy, but as a way 46:06.416 --> 46:11.660 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, I don't know, this is a bottom line and I said it earlier. 46:13.042 --> 46:18.086 [SPEAKER_02]: I personally want to live in a just-to-main peaceful world. 46:18.206 --> 46:18.507 [SPEAKER_02]: Amen. 46:18.907 --> 46:21.069 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to live the way my father challenges. 46:21.329 --> 46:25.993 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to live in a way that we learn how to be a family with our differences. 46:26.174 --> 46:30.578 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's no secret, my family said it's conflicts that ended up public. 46:32.419 --> 46:33.380 [SPEAKER_02]: But I love my brother. 46:33.400 --> 46:48.648 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not trying to destroy my brother, you know, and even when we went through that, I was very careful with my language, you know, even as you deal with difficult issues that you are on different sides of, you always want to uphold steel the dignity. 46:57.558 --> 47:02.300 [SPEAKER_02]: because I know it wasn't just about some March and demonstration, it was how I deal with my family. 47:02.940 --> 47:04.881 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's how I deal with my co-workers. 47:05.361 --> 47:06.302 [SPEAKER_02]: How deal with myself? 47:06.602 --> 47:07.222 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 47:07.262 --> 47:14.125 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on a mission now to learn better how to communicate with people because my tongue is very vicious. 47:15.186 --> 47:17.186 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you, that's my weak point. 47:17.486 --> 47:21.548 [SPEAKER_02]: So I understand all the ways in which people are communicating on social media. 47:22.108 --> 47:25.210 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm learning to channel and tame. 47:25.930 --> 47:37.143 [SPEAKER_02]: and not just to do it, but to be come from a very sincere place in that, in terms of that, because non-violence is so constructive, it's healing. 47:38.942 --> 48:00.333 [SPEAKER_02]: It's empowering, and if you just want to live in constant turmoil, and chaos, and despair, then keep doing your value, but for me, non-violence is hope. 48:01.678 --> 48:21.984 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's being thoughtful, you know, it's being, it's, I said, emotionally intelligent, it's channeling the anger and the, we're in the fear into a, a philosophy and a methodology that can give you true. 48:24.487 --> 48:28.334 [SPEAKER_02]: lasting outcomes, but it's got to be perpetual. 48:28.374 --> 48:30.017 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't treat it like a jacket. 48:30.358 --> 48:32.081 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm just going to use it in this moment. 48:32.902 --> 48:35.346 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it didn't work because you were trying to use it. 48:36.662 --> 48:50.188 [SPEAKER_02]: to get another person to be non-violet, it's not for that purpose, it's for the purpose for you to bring that energy and as you become more of it, you things begin to transform around you, including other people. 48:50.808 --> 48:54.470 [SPEAKER_02]: But if your target is just the person, you're going to be disappointed every time. 48:55.230 --> 48:58.792 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's going to cause some people to end up being violent, 49:05.093 --> 49:11.649 [SPEAKER_02]: They use no weapons, most powerful, if you want to look at it, it's most powerful. 49:13.213 --> 49:26.498 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe it was a war, maybe it's a night, but it was the most powerful movement that it used no weapons and had little loss of life, but ended up creating massive change. 49:27.318 --> 49:29.439 [SPEAKER_02]: I was having a conversation just the other day. 49:31.480 --> 49:34.721 [SPEAKER_02]: And all this is important because being here at the King Center, 49:35.743 --> 49:44.226 [SPEAKER_02]: And being a part of our non-violence 365 trainings, and we call it that because it is a way of like 365. 49:45.206 --> 49:48.947 [SPEAKER_02]: We have an online version, masterclass, that people can do it their own pace. 49:49.188 --> 49:50.668 [SPEAKER_02]: We have a workplace edition. 49:50.708 --> 49:52.429 [SPEAKER_02]: We do virtual experiences. 49:52.829 --> 49:55.950 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be developing other aspects. 49:56.610 --> 49:58.731 [SPEAKER_02]: Non-violence communication is desperately needed. 49:58.971 --> 50:00.531 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was in a conversation. 50:01.312 --> 50:05.053 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that being here, leading this institution, 50:05.960 --> 50:14.383 [SPEAKER_02]: going through the training myself, I did it as a young person, under my mother's leadership, but I've gone through our online experience, I was a part of it. 50:15.344 --> 50:30.790 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a part sometimes of some of the trainings we've done in person, sometimes we were in Ferguson, and we went to, I think it was Minneapolis, I was talking to a flight attendant. 50:35.672 --> 50:41.918 [SPEAKER_02]: just

this past week and he was asked me, how do you, what are your thoughts as Dr. Ken? 50:43.800 --> 51:00.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't about things that are going on because the people I've been called, he said I've been calling nigga, he even here, I won't call the airlines out and I've been called a nigga in other places and I said I've said in this order but I said I want you to consider this, it was common place in my dad's time. 51:00.415 --> 51:04.976 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my mom's been called a nigger, that was an everyday thing. 51:06.236 --> 51:07.837 [SPEAKER_02]: So we made progress. 51:08.297 --> 51:08.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:08.877 --> 51:11.698 [SPEAKER_02]: I know I haven't been called a nigger. 51:11.718 --> 51:15.839 [SPEAKER_02]: There's people I know around and I don't like using the word, but Yeah. 51:15.879 --> 51:17.379 [SPEAKER_02]: So it is different. 51:17.499 --> 51:17.699 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 51:17.779 --> 51:19.100 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want people to sleep on that. 51:19.340 --> 51:19.720 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 51:20.320 --> 51:23.381 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to show them that nine violence has made a difference. 51:23.681 --> 51:24.421 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes. 51:24.681 --> 51:25.281 [SPEAKER_02]: In some of this. 51:25.301 --> 51:26.241 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 51:26.782 --> 51:28.162 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I want you to think about this. 51:29.900 --> 51:31.280 [SPEAKER_02]: because I can talk about other problems. 51:32.621 --> 51:52.266 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, when my father and mother were doing the work that they were doing, not there were very few to any black elected officials at the local, state, or federal level, certainly not judges, until Jimmy Card opened, it's not open, it sometimes. 51:53.467 --> 51:54.167 [SPEAKER_02]: Very few. 51:59.088 --> 52:02.489 [SPEAKER_02]: us, I said, the majority of the elected officials were white males. 52:03.149 --> 52:24.794 [SPEAKER_02]: So we had no voice in government, non-violence did that, non-violent movement, gave us that most of the reason that we're able to galvanize and organize the way we been organized is because they stood on the front lines and they defied injunctions and went to jail 52:29.215 --> 52:48.942 [SPEAKER_02]: Power, letter from the non, letter from Birmingham jail, so let's not sleep on the power of another and that's why we are steadfast in doing this work because we know that it is powerful, it's transformative, and it's the best 52:49.385 --> 53:00.143 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to call it this, it's the best weapon we have for creating social transformation in our world that leads to the beloved community. 53:01.920 --> 53:16.366 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I am, but I risked my life, you know, and if it was not effective, then those who have set themselves up as our enemies would not have been organizing for decades, 53:25.490 --> 53:34.735 [SPEAKER_02]: That talks about expressing their heads, trying to figure out why they haven't been able to go as far as

they've been able to go It's an otherworldly intervention Who? 53:35.015 --> 53:46.160 [SPEAKER_02]: It is definitely an otherworldly Absolutely, it had to come from another world You tell me to sit here while these folks knocking me up so I'm here now Clare 5 come on. 53:46.280 --> 53:48.702 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, my father believe personally 53:49.522 --> 53:54.028 [SPEAKER_02]: in a person's right to self-defense, because this comes up in all of our children's good. 53:54.048 --> 53:54.428 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 53:54.469 --> 54:00.276 [SPEAKER_02]: All of the children's says, but he drew a lie, number one, for him personally. 54:01.522 --> 54:04.205 [SPEAKER_02]: the nonviolent pathway, even in his personal life. 54:04.425 --> 54:11.592 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, he didn't start out there when the house was bombed in 1956, and my mother was in the hall. 54:12.173 --> 54:13.414 [SPEAKER_02]: They had a weapon at the time. 54:14.375 --> 54:16.377 [SPEAKER_02]: He wouldn't try to fly for another one. 54:16.397 --> 54:22.484 [SPEAKER_02]: He was rejected, but he was challenged if you're going to leave this movement, you're going to be all in and out. 54:23.244 --> 54:25.146 [SPEAKER_02]: He made a decision to be all in. 54:25.166 --> 54:28.029 [SPEAKER_02]: From that point on, for him, that was the pathway. 54:28.249 --> 54:30.771 [SPEAKER_02]: But he respected another person's right, to protect him. 54:31.052 --> 54:41.842 [SPEAKER_02]: But he also said self-defense and the movement doesn't have a place because we are putting ourselves on the line for a greater cause. 54:43.294 --> 54:46.937 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you don't want to come have everybody showin' up with them. 54:47.277 --> 54:49.139 [SPEAKER_02]: They're, they're, they're, they're rocks, they're stones. 54:49.179 --> 54:53.503 [SPEAKER_02]: They're gunna, whatever, trying to have a, non-violet protest. 54:53.523 --> 54:53.683 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh. 54:54.023 --> 54:56.065 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then cussin' people out. 54:56.225 --> 54:57.126 [SPEAKER_02]: Where's that gonna go? 54:57.546 --> 54:58.106 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh. 54:58.227 --> 55:00.989 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's gonna just, you know, invite more. 55:01.949 --> 55:05.490 [SPEAKER_02]: violence and aggression and attack and bloodshed. 55:06.030 --> 55:07.471 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be a whole lot of day at people. 55:07.551 --> 55:09.171 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 55:09.331 --> 55:09.571 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 55:10.092 --> 55:10.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 55:10.912 --> 55:22.055 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm curious, Dr. King, about, you know, just looking ahead, you know, I'm curious about the grace of like, what, what are the, when you look at the landscape of what's going on? 55:22.575 --> 55:27.977 [SPEAKER_01]: What are the, the things that the realities that might keep you up in the night that make you 55:28.897 --> 55:29.638 [SPEAKER_01]: That's sober you. 55:30.238 --> 55:32.059 [SPEAKER_01]: And it should sober us, you know. 55:32.139

--> 55:33.500 [SPEAKER_01]: So what kind of keeps you up in the night? 55:33.520 --> 55:37.963 [SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the concerns that you're seeing in the landscape as it is right now? 55:38.323 --> 55:40.905 [SPEAKER_01]: But then also, what gives you hope? 55:40.965 --> 55:49.130 [SPEAKER_01]: What are some little flickers, if you will, that are making that are giving you some hope for a nonviolent future? 55:49.450 --> 55:50.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I say it down? 55:51.992 --> 55:54.113 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say I was the last couple of years. 55:54.313 --> 55:55.194 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been learning 55:55.895 --> 55:56.897 [SPEAKER_02]: to give it to God. 55:56.917 --> 55:57.979 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, just sleep. 55:58.740 --> 56:01.265 [SPEAKER_02]: I have a thing over my bed that says that. 56:01.546 --> 56:03.449 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I get off track, I look back at it. 56:04.592 --> 56:06.616 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I never want to get to a place. 56:08.010 --> 56:12.293 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so much despair that I believe there's no way out and no way through. 56:12.914 --> 56:17.017 [SPEAKER_02]: I do want to be concerned, but I don't want to be worried. 56:17.617 --> 56:19.819 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I challenge myself in that regard. 56:19.839 --> 56:26.704 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I don't turn on the TV to listen to all this commentary over and over again. 56:28.185 --> 56:32.769 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I engaged with social media, but I don't get immersed. 56:32.929 --> 56:33.869 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you got to have balance. 56:33.889 --> 56:35.090 [SPEAKER_02]: You got to have self-care. 56:37.693 --> 56:52.269 [SPEAKER_02]: it's it's wise you don't want to gain the whole world be so concerned and you lose yourself in the process that's where don't keep going you going again going you'd be something to the past so while I'm concerned about 56:53.046 --> 56:55.789 [SPEAKER_02]: what's going to happen with all these different changes. 56:55.809 --> 56:57.832 [SPEAKER_02]: You're not a removal of history, etc. 56:58.593 --> 57:00.015 [SPEAKER_02]: I get a little concerned about that. 57:00.035 --> 57:01.196 [SPEAKER_02]: Have questions about that. 57:01.737 --> 57:05.141 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the things that have been removal we have been able to recover them and hit me. 57:05.241 --> 57:05.481 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 57:05.982 --> 57:06.603 [SPEAKER_02]: And hit me. 57:07.203 --> 57:11.489 [SPEAKER_02]: In recent times, we've seen the emergence of all this, 57:12.975 --> 57:18.740 [SPEAKER_02]: Black history that we know not us, just suddenly it's like you're finding out new different things. 57:19.001 --> 57:20.882 [SPEAKER_02]: Where's this stuff being all this time? 57:21.023 --> 57:21.323 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 57:21.443 --> 57:23.365 [SPEAKER_02]: It's in the ethos. 57:23.385 --> 57:27.408 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to be able to recapture and cover this, you know, because 57:28.229 --> 57:38.753 [SPEAKER_02]: First of

all, there's oral tradition that continues to live and it's all over the place all in the world that people that have things in their own homes and stuff, you know, things. 57:39.173 --> 57:44.434 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to be okay, it's just going to take a lot of energy at a time, yes. 57:44.955 --> 57:45.515 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not. 57:46.315 --> 57:58.723 [SPEAKER_02]: Just like with chat you feel that you can get quicker than that, we'll see what you have to say, I think, so my point is I'm concerned about what's happening in the world, but I'm not worried because of the God-fact. 57:59.424 --> 58:03.466 [SPEAKER_02]: I know what we're going through, other generations have gone through stuff. 58:03.686 --> 58:04.527 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely. 58:04.807 --> 58:05.207 [SPEAKER_02]: Hear me. 58:06.028 --> 58:07.649 [SPEAKER_02]: Other generations have gone through it. 58:07.669 --> 58:07.969 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 58:08.710 --> 58:10.311 [SPEAKER_02]: We live as if we the first. 58:11.225 --> 58:31.910 [SPEAKER_02]: Generating the every experience such dark Challenge a moment and we're not We're not so I remember that yeah, I tell you the most powerful way to Bible is remember When they forget Children visual That's that's when they ended up being compromised in place. 58:32.010 --> 58:37.851 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, but you have to remember our ancestors I think about Harry Tubman all the time. 58:37.891 --> 58:40.812 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how you think Harry Tubman escaped from slavery 58:42.089 --> 58:43.170 [SPEAKER_02]: and came back and got others. 58:44.311 --> 58:45.332 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she's just that brilliant. 58:45.913 --> 58:53.841 [SPEAKER_02]: What does a got fact on that, yeah, so for me, I kind of keep things in that perspective. 58:54.202 --> 58:55.663 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what gives me hope. 58:56.484 --> 59:04.472 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's so many young people that are doing amazing things. 59:06.015 --> 59:20.186 [SPEAKER_02]: There's also things, there's also people in the white community that I've seen, you know, on my social benefit, that are talking about us out of a very sincere, authentic place, as long as I'm 62. 59:20.226 --> 59:28.032 [SPEAKER_02]: So what would have been before you, 42, 43, 44 years as an adult? 59:28.292 --> 59:29.293 [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen. 59:31.148 --> 59:32.569 [SPEAKER_02]: white brothers and sisters like that. 59:32.729 --> 59:39.753 [SPEAKER_02]: It's talking about our story and educating about us in ways that we would be doing. 59:39.933 --> 59:40.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 59:40.674 --> 59:42.075 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm hopeful. 59:42.175 --> 59:42.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 59:42.715 --> 59:43.115 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. 59:43.255 --> 59:44.936 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's that's just me. 59:45.096 --> 59:46.557 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean it's not going to be difficult. 59:46.877 --> 59:50.259 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't mean it's not going to get worse. 59:50.319 --> 59:53.862 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, but I'm staying grounded in my faith. 59:54.222 --> 59:54.422 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 59:55.262 --> 59:56.603 [SPEAKER_02]: I know God is with us. 59:57.164 --> 59:59.226 [SPEAKER_02]: I know He's working it all out. 59:59.446 --> 01:00:01.908 [SPEAKER_02]: There's some things we've got to learn through this process. 01:00:02.349 --> 01:00:06.252 [SPEAKER_02]: Because what He saves his men for evil, God means for good. 01:00:06.793 --> 01:00:08.795 [SPEAKER_02]: But there are things we also have to learn. 01:00:09.555 --> 01:00:11.737 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's part of preparation, too. 01:00:12.638 --> 01:00:16.982 [SPEAKER_02]: Every season has prepared us for another season, so we don't want to squander that. 01:00:17.022 --> 01:00:17.502 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 01:00:17.662 --> 01:00:18.783 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the lesson. 01:00:18.823 --> 01:00:19.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 01:00:19.424 --> 01:00:27.851 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've heard people jokingly say that right now we might be dealing with the best why people we've ever had in the history as it relates to social justice. 01:00:28.171 --> 01:00:33.336 [SPEAKER_00]: We've worked with what we got, you know, we call on each other high. 01:00:33.696 --> 01:00:38.880 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, our podcast, we're blessed to have an international audience, but we and people all 01:00:41.302 --> 01:00:44.844 [SPEAKER_00]: people connect with the church and people long gone from the church. 01:00:45.084 --> 01:00:50.967 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really diverse and eclectic group of listeners, but our core audience are a black Christian women from around the world. 01:00:51.668 --> 01:00:57.511 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would, I know that they would want to hear a word of encouragement from you to them. 01:00:58.231 --> 01:01:09.918 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm thinking about people who have really tried to honor God by living a life that is serious about doing justice, loving mercy, walking humbly with God. 01:01:11.298 --> 01:01:17.379 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet they are exhausted, they are tired, and they are wondering, how does Dr. Bernie's A.K. 01:01:17.419 --> 01:01:18.260 [SPEAKER_00]: hold on right now? 01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:20.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you give us a advice? 01:01:20.520 --> 01:01:21.720 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm self-key. 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:22.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I just told you. 01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:31.322 [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I hold on by balancing realism and helps me. 01:01:33.162 --> 01:01:36.063 [SPEAKER_02]: I've gotten to the place, and some of this comes with 01:01:37.103 --> 01:01:42.087 [SPEAKER_02]: maturity and time as you age and you experience life. 01:01:42.508 --> 01:01:53.456 [SPEAKER_02]: So some of them may not make sense in your 30s and 40s But as my mom used to say just keep on living and you discover and what I mean by that There's some realities I've learned to accept 01:01:54.380 --> 01:02:10.243 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's why the serenity prayer has

always been a part of my life, God grant me the serenity, except the things I cannot change, and the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference, because sometimes we spend our energy on things, we cannot change. 01:02:10.943 --> 01:02:14.724 [SPEAKER_02]: You cannot change another person, you can change you. 01:02:15.724 --> 01:02:19.965 [SPEAKER_02]: You can collectively with a strategy, plan, 01:02:20.648 --> 01:02:22.269 [SPEAKER_02]: around it in nonviolence. 01:02:22.309 --> 01:02:24.030 [SPEAKER_02]: Change and transform systems. 01:02:24.410 --> 01:02:25.490 [SPEAKER_02]: We've seen that work. 01:02:25.710 --> 01:02:33.294 [SPEAKER_02]: There's been studies even done around nonviolent movements, but more successful than violent movements. 01:02:33.774 --> 01:02:35.995 [SPEAKER_02]: So when you accept those things, 01:02:36.535 --> 01:02:41.596 [SPEAKER_02]: then you're using your energy more wisely. 01:02:41.817 --> 01:02:46.218 [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is the nuances of being human. 01:02:47.198 --> 01:02:51.399 [SPEAKER_02]: I have accepted that evil is always going to be present. 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:53.540 [SPEAKER_02]: The magnitude of it. 01:02:54.548 --> 01:03:03.619 [SPEAKER_02]: will depend on our vigilance, you know, my mother said struggle is never ending process freedom is never really what you earn it and win it in every generation. 01:03:04.180 --> 01:03:10.467 [SPEAKER_02]: And so if we fail to understand that there always has to be engagement. 01:03:10.687 --> 01:03:17.952 [SPEAKER_02]: Now does that mean individually you and individually you can't take a break, go, you know, vacation, go have a good time. 01:03:17.972 --> 01:03:21.215 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not what that means that you can't do that. 01:03:21.275 --> 01:03:23.816 [SPEAKER_02]: You must do that for your own standing. 01:03:24.097 --> 01:03:25.177 [SPEAKER_02]: And you need to be okay. 01:03:25.277 --> 01:03:26.959 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you need to be okay. 01:03:27.419 --> 01:03:28.540 [SPEAKER_02]: My mom helped me. 01:03:29.961 --> 01:03:34.144 [SPEAKER_02]: When I was 20 or so and I used to try to be in everything, literally. 01:03:34.584 --> 01:03:36.265 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had at that time a Messiah's 01:03:40.063 --> 01:03:47.586 [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, baby, when I was going to miss something, she said, baby, they're always be issues in the world and your time will come. 01:03:48.386 --> 01:03:55.369 [SPEAKER_02]: That put in perspective of me that, yes, this is critical in the urgent right now. 01:03:55.669 --> 01:03:55.949 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 01:03:55.969 --> 01:03:58.130 [SPEAKER_02]: But they're going to be some else critical in the urgent late on too. 01:03:58.270 --> 01:04:04.032 [SPEAKER_02]: And at this moment, you got to say, no, a step away, be okay with it, that's right. 01:04:04.412 --> 01:04:05.633 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had to learn that. 01:04:07.133 --> 01:04:10.656 [SPEAKER_02]: as long

as, but that's why it's important to be a part of a collective. 01:04:11.497 --> 01:04:18.342 [SPEAKER_02]: That's important why we need strategy because in strategy we think about how do we ensure self-care for people. 01:04:18.982 --> 01:04:21.625 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what black women think about. 01:04:21.685 --> 01:04:21.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 01:04:22.425 --> 01:04:30.972 [SPEAKER_02]: So when we're doing this work of activism, we can't, you know, we can't exclude that, that has to be a part of it. 01:04:31.952 --> 01:04:32.353 [SPEAKER_02]: So as 01:04:35.074 --> 01:04:38.716 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, these three or four people may be absent, but we still got the rest here. 01:04:39.457 --> 01:04:41.618 [SPEAKER_02]: You said I'm saying that's part of the whole strategy. 01:04:42.999 --> 01:04:47.381 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, cast your cares on him for he cares for you. 01:04:48.102 --> 01:04:52.344 [SPEAKER_02]: Our CEO, oh, here, the King Center said something to me. 01:04:52.964 --> 01:04:59.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Over the last year, she said, you know, a lot of people are, 01:05:01.303 --> 01:05:04.345 [SPEAKER_02]: that they're taking their care for something and carrying. 01:05:04.425 --> 01:05:05.646 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not supposed to carry. 01:05:06.146 --> 01:05:09.848 [SPEAKER_01]: How do we delineate between caring for what's happening? 01:05:13.657 --> 01:05:20.220 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and caring, and a way Jesus, you know, in the presence of you. 01:05:20.240 --> 01:05:22.821 [SPEAKER_02]: So you, these are things you need. 01:05:22.841 --> 01:05:29.564 [SPEAKER_02]: You learn about life and you got to be a piece with that God is still on the throne and is very active. 01:05:29.864 --> 01:05:30.984 [SPEAKER_02]: Do the Holy Spirit. 01:05:32.705 --> 01:05:34.867 [SPEAKER_02]: Spend more time with the Holy Spirit from me. 01:05:35.647 --> 01:05:42.011 [SPEAKER_02]: The Holy Spirit has been my literal saving grace We talk about Jesus, but I talk a lot about the Holy Spirit. 01:05:42.031 --> 01:05:49.276 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel like I'm this kind of Jesus I'm diminishing Jesus Because I know that this dispensation of time. 01:05:49.736 --> 01:05:50.737 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the Holy Spirit. 01:05:50.757 --> 01:05:57.642 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure who is the Christ in me That is guiding that's comforting. 01:05:58.142 --> 01:06:00.904 [SPEAKER_02]: You know that's giving me the wisdom to say 01:06:02.390 --> 01:06:03.730 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and be okay with it. 01:06:04.350 --> 01:06:20.234 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, and sometimes I put the universe on notice because there are things that I know that I have to get done at certain times, and it's gonna always be legitimate stuff that comes to stopping for sure. 01:06:20.374 --> 01:06:22.154 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm literally, it happens to me. 01:06:22.174 --> 01:06:25.895 [SPEAKER_02]: So finally, I put my foot down, and I said no, no. 01:06:27.515 --> 01:06:29.316 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, it's a complete thing. 01:06:29.336 --> 01:06:40.921 [SPEAKER_02]: So I can kill that priority and I'm okay with it because I'm not a person who has been Unconcerring about humanity Not involved in some of the change in the world. 01:06:41.282 --> 01:06:48.905 [SPEAKER_02]: So I can have a off-season where I'm doing some of the stuff You know, but yet I'm still gonna be away. 01:06:48.945 --> 01:06:52.727 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still gonna do some things, but I mean I'd be at that love and then I'm getting older 01:06:53.547 --> 01:07:20.064 [SPEAKER_02]: So I may not be able to do some of the things that I've shifted guy is called me in a place of teaching of guiding and you know Not necessarily being at home like my dad said I'm too out of motion That part of my legs I'm too out of motion So it don't mean that other people yeah shouldn't Because honestly sometimes 01:07:21.049 --> 01:07:26.153 [SPEAKER_02]: What's happening now helps to keep people's energy channeled in the right way. 01:07:26.173 --> 01:07:26.673 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 01:07:26.693 --> 01:07:30.036 [SPEAKER_02]: And if they didn't have that, they would be distracted. 01:07:30.096 --> 01:07:36.400 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not mad at anybody who may not have the strategy all together yet. 01:07:36.701 --> 01:07:39.863 [SPEAKER_02]: And I understand the importance of connecting strategies inside. 01:07:39.923 --> 01:07:42.305 [SPEAKER_01]: And outside, I can't imagine the streets, but in the streets. 01:07:45.007 --> 01:07:49.971 [SPEAKER_02]: because I know that there's that non-violence helps to channel some of this energy as well. 01:07:51.071 --> 01:07:53.654 [SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful, you know, in a constructive way. 01:07:53.974 --> 01:07:54.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 01:07:54.594 --> 01:07:59.038 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I have a mentor of mine, Ms. Harriet Smith, you know, you got to quote the people. 01:07:59.438 --> 01:08:11.068 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she said, a no from God is just as holy as he is and I believe that even Ask God's children our nose are just as holy as he is sometimes we got a no one God Saying sit down my child. 01:08:11.268 --> 01:08:26.561 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know know gone and get up and go do it until he we have and decided to respond to that because he will sit you down Oh, yes And sit down sit your sit down He'll sick you down And will and that's my best way of being and you don't want that 01:08:28.025 --> 01:08:30.144 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather just do what God told me to do. 01:08:31.142 --> 01:08:32.223 [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Bernie's A. 01:08:32.263 --> 01:08:36.106 [SPEAKER_01]: King, we want to thank you so much for taking a seat at the table with us. 01:08:36.146 --> 01:08:39.729 [SPEAKER_01]: We are so honored to have learned from you to sit with you at the table. 01:08:39.749 --> 01:08:40.689 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you believe a question? 01:08:40.729 --> 01:08:45.953 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been laughing a little bit. 01:08:46.153 --> 01:08:50.577 [SPEAKER_00]: I've read a little bit about your, about your dad, as many people in the world. 01:08:50.617 --> 01:08:50.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 01:08:51.057 --> 01:08:58.643 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm married to a king scholar and so one of the things that we often talk about is a sense of humor of Dr. King. 01:08:58.823 --> 01:09:03.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I loved hearing you talk about the world of humor in your life and how important it is. 01:09:03.627 --> 01:09:04.348 [SPEAKER_00]: We love to laugh here. 01:09:04.368 --> 01:09:04.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Just so. 01:09:04.848 --> 01:09:05.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you do. 01:09:05.329 --> 01:09:06.550 [SPEAKER_00]: That's something that I will not forget. 01:09:06.650 --> 01:09:06.850 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 01:09:07.150 --> 01:09:07.871 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah. 01:09:08.171 --> 01:09:10.753 [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to thank y'all for taking a seat at the table with us. 01:09:10.833 --> 01:09:13.155 [SPEAKER_01]: So we want to hear those comments. 01:09:13.195 --> 01:09:14.096 [SPEAKER_01]: We know this comes with me. 01:09:14.136 --> 01:09:14.777 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna laugh. 01:09:14.857 --> 01:09:16.058 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so great. 01:09:16.318 --> 01:09:17.419 [SPEAKER_01]: an honor to be with you. 01:09:17.799 --> 01:09:19.039 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here with you, too. 01:09:19.219 --> 01:09:20.920 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank God bless you. 01:09:21.340 --> 01:09:30.104 [SPEAKER_01]: It made the Lord just continue to bless, uphold, and keep your word, and continue to bring in resources to keep the movement and non-violence going. 01:09:30.124 --> 01:09:34.086 [SPEAKER_01]: So we move toward the beloved community, because we need it now more than ever. 01:09:34.326 --> 01:09:34.626 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 01:09:34.866 --> 01:09:35.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 01:09:35.767 --> 01:09:36.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 01:09:36.287 --> 01:09:37.187 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all. 01:09:37.387 --> 01:09:38.688 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, we are wrapped. 01:09:38.968 --> 01:09:41.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Give it up for now, okay?