התמלול המלא של 18 - TruSigns: The Hidden Indicators of Human Trafficking

of settle my stomach and my nerves in advance because even though those in code enforcement are certainly not um new to dealing with tragedy and tough issues, this issue is so particularly angering and upsetting that uh there's an there's an element where you almost have to gurge yourself to even talk about it or use these words. 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:44.720 Do you do you feel that now still? 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:46.720 I absolutely. 00:05:46.879 --> 00:06:12.480 And and I do think that um because I do this from my faith platform, that that gives me a certain amount of stability and support in community that allows me to keep doing this day after day, week after week, month after month, and literally year after year. 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:20.720 And the issues um require fresh insight, new partners. 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:30.639 And the reason I stay at Vanguard University is because every year they bring me another freshman class. 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:52.959 And my students, I was just in Romania working with our State Department, our embassy, and nonprofits, NGOs, government, ministry of education, all of these people in a country where we are still seeing young people trafficked to all parts of the world. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:07:16.240 And while I was there, I got a text from one of my alums who, when he was a freshman, signed up for the Women in Justice Minor, became a member of the Live to Free Club, started going out into the high schools to educate um younger students about the risks of being trafficked. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:28.079 And now he's texting me because as he's grown and developed his career in law enforcement, it was his first collar. 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:36.879 And he put the handcuffs on a trafficker selling a teenage girl as an FBI agent. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:49.920 And I thought every class that comes on my campus is another opportunity to send qualified, knowledgeable leaders into the front line. 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:50.480 Right. 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:50.879 Yeah. 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:54.160 I mean, you're not just giving the fish, you're teaching people how to fish. 00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:00.879 And in this case, they're going out and they're fishers of, you know, fishers of justice, I guess, in that sense. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.040 They're going on protecting the vulnerable. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.079 And they get to do things I can't do. 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:09.439 I mean, you know, they're not gonna let me go put handcuffs on any. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.399 So that would feel good with some of this. 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:19.199 So there is so much to unpack there, but I but I I would like to start with, you know, your your initial story is so impactful. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.079 You are a nighttime pediatric nurse. 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:23.439 We're talking to you now. 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.000 You're a professor, podcaster, author. 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.519 You have revolved your life around the subject of human trafficking. 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.839 How did you get from there to here? 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:42.080 Um, you know, I have I have students that come in and sit in my office and ask me, so what major should I do to be you? 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:47.679 And it's like, well, actually, um the secret is you need to get old. 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:54.960 Um it's it's lots of life experience and serving in anything. 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:06.000 I grew up in a household where my dad um taught scripture at the kitchen table around the fireplace. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:16.240 And I remember being told as a very young child, whatever you see to do, whatever your hand finds, do it. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:25.279 And I've that's how I ended up being a volunteer for Doctors of the World um shelter in Athens, Greece. 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:29.600 And it was not because of my nursing that they wanted me. 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:39.200 It was because at one point I had decided I needed to get certified to teach English as a second language. 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:47.519 And the director of the shelter said, what we really need is a way to instill hope in survivors. 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:49.039 We recover them. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.000 I we don't even like to use the word rescue. 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:59.279 We recover and bring them into a place for restoration and rehabilitation. 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.360 And they're so broken. 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:09.279 And one of the most important things starting out on that restoration journey is building hope. 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:21.440 And when they learn a new skill, learning English meant they could qualify for some jobs that our US Embassy had partnered with the Hilton Hotel. 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:27.360 And when they passed a certain level, they could qualify for some part-time jobs. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:38.960 So I have a lot of different things teaching English, nursing, becoming a professor, because I understand that research is critical. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.919 You can't just think you know the answer. 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.159 You have to test that. 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:50.639 And that testing is really the bottom line for discernment and wisdom. 00:10:50.799 --> 00:11:02.240 We talk about those spiritual practices, but they are not like you put your hands out in front of you and somehow the universe manifests some knowledge. 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:08.960 It's hard work to do the research, to get the numbers, to investigate. 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:16.159 And it's one of the things that I actually love about code enforcement work. 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:16.799 Okay. 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.960 Well, we definitely want to touch on that. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:30.799 Um, kind of going back a step, when you were there that night in the ER and that poor traffic kid came in, did you right then have an aha moment where you said, I am going to

find a way to get involved in this? 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.639 Or did it gnaw you? 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.480 Is this something you discerned over time? 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:35.360 Or how did that happen? 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:36.720 How'd that transition occur? 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:46.720 I I think I think it stayed with me and was a touch point when I saw other things happening. 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.440 And it's like, oh, I've seen that before. 00:11:49.679 --> 00:12:02.320 Before we had the Trafficking Victims Protection Act in 2000, we already had laws that did not permit sexual assault. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:24.639 And so we knew this was wrong, but we didn't have the best strategies for engaging, for prosecuting the perpetrators, for understanding the greed element, the money as a driving force in this. 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:45.759 And so it was the kind of knowledge that I acquired a little at a time, and it became a more developed process when we actually had a law, and I could say, ah, that's what that is. 00:12:46.080 --> 00:13:09.759 And for many of the things, for instance, here at the Global Center for Women and Justice, our mission statement when we started in 2003 under our founders, I wasn't even here, uh, is to advance the global status of women and reduce violence against women and girls, which is a global issue. 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:17.759 And sometimes, honestly, getting people to pay attention to those things is difficult. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:26.799 But when human trafficking became more visible on in the public square, people paid attention. 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:40.799 So the issues I was already addressing child sexual abuse, um, violence uh against women, domestic violence, family violence, they're all under the same umbrella. 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.720 And I so it was kind of a two-way street. 00:13:44.960 --> 00:14:11.600 I got to talk about the issues that were really dear to me, and I began to have a um a growing understanding of how connected they were to the horrific, total composite of what human trafficking looks like, what it is, and how we develop strategies to end it. 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:17.039 So to to put just a finger on it, how how should we define human trafficking? 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.120 What is human trafficking in your book? 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.440 You talk about that there's two different types. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:31.200 I think most people think of, as you also point out in your book, that human trafficking is really sex trafficking, but which is huge, a huge part, but there is labor trafficking. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.919 So, number one, Doctor, what is human trafficking? 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.200 How do we put a finger on it? 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.200 And secondly, uh, can you talk about those two different kinds and the drivers? 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:48.240 So if you're looking at how to define this, you know, the law and urine law, it's pages and pages and pages. 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:54.480 But if you want to have it on one slide, think of having three columns. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:08.320 And in one column, you have the ways that a person is obtained, recruited, moved, transported around the block or across a state or across a border. 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:13.919 And then the process, the means by which that was done. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:30.320 And there are three elements legally that we have to prove for an adult victim of labor or sex trafficking, and we have to prove whether it was force, fraud, or coercion. 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:46.720 And force is kind of some of the very dramatic images we have from movies like Taken, and somebody is kidnapping a girl or throwing them in a white van and driving off. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:53.200 Um, but that's not nearly as common as fraud. 00:15:53.679 --> 00:16:02.159 And even mentioning the movie Taken, um Hollywood needs to sell tickets for you to go see that. 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:14.799 But the real trafficking, more likely, would have happened by two guys making friends with two girls, inviting them to a party. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.600 There would have been no dramatic, violent, lamp-breaking scene. 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:24.399 They would have just gone to the party and we'd never see them again. 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.320 But a six-minute movie doesn't sell very many tickets. 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:28.879 Right. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:29.360 Yeah. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:37.279 And grooming is that that is certainly under the rubric of coercion, fraud, force. 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:45.519 Um, but that's a long-term play, usually taking place online, ultimately resulting in a meeting, perhaps like you just talked about at a party. 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.320 Is that right? 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:46.960 Yes. 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:55.200 And grooming can happen because of social media now a lot faster than it than we used to see. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:04.240 But the grooming becomes sometimes wrapped up in kind of what we call a lover boy scenario. 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:11.680 Even in labor trafficking, this idea that I see you and I'm your friend and I'm gonna help you. 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:35.039 And now part of the coercion isn't the threat of we're going to beat you and um we're going to kill your family, although that kind of coercion happens frequently, but the coercion of you're not gonna be able to stay here, um, I'm not going to love you anymore. 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.559 Um, you're not gonna be part of our group. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:49.039 And so that kind of of manipulation around belonging and identity is all part of that grooming process. 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:58.880 I think one of the podcasts that I've done that really explains that well is an interview with Rachel Thomas. 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:15.680 And if you look up our podcast and search Rachel, she's probably a frequent flyer on

the podcast, but she talks about coercion in a way that um our kids understand what dogs. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:16.480 Thank you. 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:27.039 And for our listeners in our, we'll make sure that we share a link to these podcasts, um, both the doctors podcasts and other affiliated podcasts that we're aware of on there as well. 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:29.119 And same with the book, which we're gonna get into. 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:35.599 So, Doctor, just even that I could, I could literally feel my blood pressure rising and the fury building up. 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:44.240 A lot of our listeners, in fact, all of our listeners who are in government and many people who are not in government who are our listeners, uh, these are people who want to do good. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.240 And so, uh, and your book talks about that kind of thing. 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.960 But on your chat, I want to talk first about your cherished belonging comment right there. 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:54.720 Uh, your belonging to community. 00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:04.960 You know, we um had a conversation about uh community, and it came up with a book that I don't know if you know Father Greg Boyle, who works with Homeboy Industries. 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.640 Yeah, and he wrote a great book very recently called Cherished Belonging. 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:25.119 And his whole principle of it is that a big source of dysfunction in our society, which is not unique to America, but we have a particularly American dysfunction in our society uh at certain times, like right now, stems from a lack of belonging or a lack of sense of belonging. 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.200 So does that play into this? 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:34.240 When you talk about a sense of uh people actually being trafficked because their so-called friends are telling them you can't be part of our community anymore. 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.839 What is the role of community and belonging in being trafficked? 00:19:38.160 --> 00:20:04.799 Well, there's a pretty common understanding of how, particularly in sex trafficking, the trafficker has a relationship with usually girls and women being sold, and they have a common language, maybe even considering each other uh family and wifey and sisters, those kinds of things. 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:25.920 And so when the trafficking is identified and we try to remove someone, their reason for not walking out of that circumstance are sometimes around their commitment to their fellow victims. 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:43.920 And even just like we've seen and we can learn from looking back at where we've been with domestic violence, we we opened shelters and women, we would get them out of a violent marriage, and then they would go back. 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.559 And everybody's like, why? 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:52.720 And and eventually the research showed they it would take seven times before they left. 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.599 And they may

not even be alive to leave at that point in time. 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.519 Well, yes, and it's pretty much the same thing. 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:07.839 The uh there's the issue around trauma bonding and the idea that you're part of this tight-knit family. 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:41.920 And even in court, we have cases where a victim, we have witness testimony, we know this is a uh victim of violent sex trafficking, and yet at the end of the trial, and the sentencing is sending the trafficker away for 20 years or more, um, the victim is writing a letter to the court for mercy, and he still loves me. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:51.839 And those that that just really speaks to how deeply belonging is part of our humanity. 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.079 Is so central to who we are, the need to belong. 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:03.680 Uh, I mean, you can watch TV shows, a lot of reality shows really center on the Concept of a need to belong, even in dysfunctional situations. 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:09.119 Um, so Doctor, is human trafficking something that is unique to America? 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.440 Does it happen all over the world? 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.039 Is where does America play in this issue? 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:22.960 I love that very specific focus on our US role in combating human trafficking. 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.960 Very obviously, it is a global tragedy. 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:34.559 And in some places, thousands of people are in state-run slavery. 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:53.119 Um, a few years ago, we passed the Uyghur uh prevention law so that we have to look at that kind of the products that are coming into our borders that are produced by literally slave labor. 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.599 We see generational slavery in brick kilns. 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:19.920 We see slavery right now, forced criminality in Asia, where big warehouses have been converted to AI chatbot scamming factories, and young people are recruited through fraud, saying, here's a job in the tech industry. 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:44.880 And then they arrive and they are literally captives in this warehouse, scamming people predominantly in Western nations, and just I don't have 25 stats yet, but in 2024, 4.0 billion dollars mostly with our elder community, six and over. 00:23:45.359 --> 00:24:00.160 And so the intersection of crime and exploitation and human trafficking is in every corner of our globe, every part of our community. 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:15.200 And we see the devastation it wreaks on um talking to a woman last month who lost her life savings, lost her life savings to an online scam. 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:21.680 And then I took a survey in my class because I'm thinking, oh, this is really rare. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:31.599 Half of my students had a family member who had been scammed from anywhere from a few hundred dollars to several thousand dollars. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.400 So human trafficking impacts us in lots of different ways. 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.160 Yeah, that's a great point, Doctor. 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:52.480 It's sometimes hard to think about how human trafficking impacts beyond the immediate victim who's being trafficked, but you raise a really interesting point about uh these slave labor farms in Asia, for example, in that scenario. 00:24:52.559 --> 00:25:03.279 Uh, and I think about like some of these online sites where people think they can go buy cheap clothing, and that is made by the hands of little kids who are being trafficked. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.240 Is that right? 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:05.359 Absolutely. 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:16.480 And in fact, right now, I want to invite you to Vanguard in October 2026 for our annual Fair Trade Fashion Show. 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:33.119 Live to Free has been doing this for 10 years to draw attention to how fast fashion drives human trafficking and substandard working conditions. 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:40.880 Uh, over a hundred people killed when a factory collapsed in Bangladesh uh several years ago. 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.920 And we just see this over and over again. 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.119 If something is too good to be true, it isn't true. 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:55.519 Someone else is paying the price, and that may be with their own blood, sweat, and tears. 00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:16.240 One of my favorite things to teach people about the law of supply and demand and where human trafficking shows up is in chocolate because there are a lot of things that are produced, we know, have slave labor contamination, but we need to have them. 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:31.359 It's like people do need to wear clothes, and it's very difficult to actually do a supply chain audit to show that the shirt you're wearing, for example, is totally slave-free. 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.640 So I focus on chocolate. 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:48.799 We know that there are over 200,000 child slaves on cocoa plantations in West Africa so that you can have cheap chocolate. 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.039 So it costs a little more. 00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:07.119 There are some arguments about why we would support another certification for fair trade, but I want to buy chocolate that is not contaminated by slavery. 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:15.519 Doctor, that's the understatement of the week here, uh, I think, because I it never occurred to me that chocolate, to think of it that way. 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:24.880 It's not that there's literally people, they may not even be physically molding the chocolate, but and they may be as well, but they're also out there in the supply chain. 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:36.960 And so I think a takeaway message for our listeners here and for myself, this is something I'm gonna be thinking about for a while, is it's not just that we're called to fight human trafficking. 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:45.920 And those of us here in local government and law enforcement and our code enforcement folks,

you are called to fight this plague on our society and our humanity. 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:56.559 However, we also have to look and make sure we're not participating in it by purchasing things, cheap clothing, chocolate, whatever, that uh ate it. 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:15.599 I remember back in when we were deep in the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and whatnot, that there was a big call, you know, all the more reason not to do drugs, i.e., heroin, for example, because it comes from poppy farms uh in Afghanistan that then helped fund the war to help kill Americans and our soldiers. 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:25.440 And so we have to look in the mirror sometimes to realize am I playing an accidental role, an inadvertent role in this, even though, of course, our intent is not there. 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.039 It's a great point, Doctor. 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.160 Absolutely. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:42.720 And we can begin to evaluate those kinds of things, and we we have to be um mindful of how we make change um and how we call others. 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:49.599 I'm always cautioning my students about don't go around pointing at people and calling them out. 00:28:50.079 --> 00:29:01.359 And when um when you start down the fair trade um path, you need to also look at um supply chain transparency. 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:09.839 And California, notably, was the first to pass a supply chain transparency act in 2010. 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:22.079 And now it's been replicated in several other spaces, although ours does need to be beefed up and have some actual teeth, but that's another discussion. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:46.160 But when we think about what we can do by voting with our dollars and by the our supply chain transparency act here in California requires companies with revenue over a certain amount to have an online policy and a way for consumers to um question. 00:29:46.559 --> 00:30:00.960 And so when you see something, check it out, write to that company, ask, because every time you do, um, it compounds the number of people who have so that they're going to pay attention. 00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:17.119 And our child labor iLab in the Department of Justice actually did an app called Sweat and Toil, and it has over a thousand pages of research behind it. 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:25.599 And in the Sweat and Toil app, you pop it up on your phone with your kids so you begin to teach them from a young age. 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.440 We get to make choices for justice. 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:37.039 And you look at the bananas and you pull that up and you look at the label to see where they are from. 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.480 And on your app, children may be involved, may not necessarily. 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:49.839 Then I'm not gonna buy those and support that cheap business line for that particular grocer. 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.480 I'm gonna choose something else, and that may mean I'm buying local, which is always a good thing too. 00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:04.400 So our choices do change other people's lives, and we may never know those people. 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.200 Right. 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.319 And uh they can be for the better or the worse. 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:29.440 Um, so you're saying that the sweat and toil app is something people could download and actively use to see if the products they're looking at purchasing, like I'm standing at the grocery store and looking at a can of soup or something, and I can actively look this brand up on this app, sweat and toil, to determine whether it may be involved in human trafficking along the line. 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:38.400 Yeah, you can look up um cotton coming from Uzbekistan and see um the kind of exploitation. 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.279 I think there's like five different symbols. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:55.839 And I I love it for introducing trafficking, particularly to children, because it's focused on labor trafficking and we don't have to deal with the um age-appropriate sexual content. 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:04.640 I think the other thing that I love about that app is how it's so much a part of our everyday life. 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:13.279 We, unless you're doing all your shopping online, um, we are in the community, we are making decisions. 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:34.640 And the reason I wanted to be part of your podcast and talk about code enforcement is because we look so often at um the FBI and Department of Justice and our police officers, and you guys, you go find the traffickers. 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:46.319 But code enforcement officers have a very unique place where they see things because of their priority for public safety. 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.279 They have to go in and check when there's something that gets reported. 00:32:51.519 --> 00:33:04.640 And over and over again, we have case uh reports where it was a code enforcement officer that identified a trafficking situation. 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.319 Absolutely. 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.240 And that is code enforcement. 00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:13.519 I call the Swiss Army tool because they really do get called in for all sorts of things. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:26.160 Sometimes they get called in, and what they're called for turns into a very different thing in reality that they're finding, but they are often the first people that the public interacts with, uh, maybe the only people from local government that they ever interact with. 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:31.599 And then in other cases, they may be the first people in to identify a situation like this. 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.720 So let's talk about that. 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:38.720 How a code of forcing officer gets called out, say, to a uh a call about a junkie motel. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.119 What should they be looking for to spot a potential human trafficking scenario? 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.240 Well, I think they're they're looking for things that

are out of place. 00:33:50.799 --> 00:34:12.480 Um uh I remember when I was a brand new task force administrator talking to an attorney from San Francisco, and their code enforcement folks had been out on a call because of a roach report in a restaurant. 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:21.679 And when they got there, um they went in and and they were like, what's over, what's over there? 00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:27.840 And it looks like this might have part of the problem with the roach investment. 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:40.079 Well, open the door, and there's a dozen mattresses laid out on the floor, and they discover that this is a hub for labor trafficking. 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:52.079 No one leaves the restaurant, the cooks, the waiter, the waitress, and they uncovered a huge um trafficking situation in in hotels. 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:59.920 The um code enforcement is gonna be called out because of public safety, right? 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:15.519 And so when they see underage kids, girls and boys that aren't in school during the daytime when they're doing their normal eight to five, that raises questions. 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:30.400 And I I think one of the things that we want to be really careful about, because I can paint code enforcement officers as heroes, but I don't want them acting like they've got a Superman cape. 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:37.519 I I want them to understand safety protocols for themselves and for the victims. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:58.000 If if you see something and you're pretty sure it's human trafficking, you need to make sure in your particular city, county, what the protocols are for reporting to get the right kind of backup because traffickers are criminals. 00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:16.400 And as a as a nurse, and I worked with Derek Marsh, the um co-founder of our Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force, and he really taught me how important it is to think about safety first. 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:27.599 And the traffickers often have weapons, they often have the ability to harm people in other spaces that we don't know about. 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:45.119 So if your code enforcement team hasn't had training, this is something that needs to become a priority in order to make sure that there is a protocol because we don't want to put possible victims at risk. 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.480 And safety is always number one. 00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:54.800 Well, we including for the protectors, we have a phrase here of we have a phrase here that we need to protect the protectors. 00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.079 If you don't have the protectors to protect, just to keep using that word protect, then they can't protect. 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:14.239 Um, and so in California, a couple of years ago, we wrote a law called SP 296, Senate Bill 296, that was the first of its kind in the country that required every city and county in our state to adopt safety standards specific to code enforcement. 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:25.360 And for all of you listening out there that have not yet adopted it, number one, if you're one of our listeners in another state, you need to go to your legislature and your code enforcement association to get that adopted. 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.199 And the scenario that Dr. 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.360 Morgan just pointed out is another reason why. 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:34.320 Secondly, uh, if you have, if you're in California, this needs to be in place. 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.519 Um, and it sounds like we need protocols for when you identify human trafficking issues. 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:46.079 So what kind of what kind of specific dangers can we give examples of here? 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:51.280 And what kind of protections, you know, if you have an idea of that, should code enforcement officers take? 00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:03.039 You, you know, I guess I'm thinking just to put it in concrete terms, let's take your situation where they're in a restaurant for a roach call, and this stuff does happen, and they go in, they discover, they just basically happen upon by accident. 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.559 This is a labor human trafficking, say it's a sex human trafficking. 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.599 What should they do that minute forward? 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:17.519 Well, first of all, the thing you don't do is say, Oh, I'm gonna rescue you and I'm gonna get you out of here. 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.320 You always call for appropriate backup for everyday people. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:31.199 You call 911, but whatever your emergency number is in your area, that's what you do. 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:39.760 You also don't do anything to put people at risk of violence and harm. 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.440 You don't want um a hostage situation. 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.960 You don't come out and say, well, this looks like human trafficking, and I'm gonna call. 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.639 Excuse me while I call the police. 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:51.199 Uh-huh. 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:51.679 Uh-huh. 00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.199 Fill in out your paper. 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.719 That's your job. 00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.559 And you call for backup in a careful and safe way. 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:23.280 And there should be protocols now, particularly here in California, where we have some very robust human trafficking task forces up and down the state, where that call-out is going to be accompanied by victim service providers who are going to make sure things are safe. 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:31.760 And sometimes, particularly in labor trafficking, there isn't an immediate go-in and rescue. 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:42.639 And that's one of the most frustrating things for people who watch a 45-minute episode on TV during the commercial. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.519 They get all the warrants, they do this and that. 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:50.159 And by the end of the show, all the victims are in a beautiful safe house. 00:39:50.400

--> 00:39:57.360 It may take time, and we have to stage the like going into a factory. 00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.119 We have to have a place to set up to bring the victims. 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:08.000 We have to have service providers who are trauma-informed and trained to do interviews. 00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:17.519 We may need linguistic support because the victims don't speak English, or in my case, locally, they don't even speak Spanish. 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.239 So I need other linguistic support. 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:28.239 So there's a lot of background work to do to actually recover the victims. 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:49.360 And when they're foreign national victims, and now we're kind of looping back to that belonging element that we started, it's very hard for them to disclose their trafficking because the coercion may be connected to a family member on another continent. 00:40:49.679 --> 00:41:02.000 And their loyalty to a parent or an uncle may mean that they have to stay in their trafficking from their point of view. 00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:09.519 So it's it's a lot more complicated than just um going in, identifying and rescuing. 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.559 Rescuing them. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:10.960 Right. 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:18.000 It's not just all there are the take-in scenarios where there is the rescue and that person's, thank God, I'm out of this. 00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:22.800 And they recognize that they should not have been in it and they're out of it, and thank the Lord they're out. 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:35.280 But you're talking about a much more insidious scenario in which um people may not immediately recognize that or may recognize it and feel like they're stuck in that to protect family, for example. 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.039 That means we have to build trust then. 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:48.800 And in especially with foreign national victims, they often come from countries where trusting law enforcement is not going to happen. 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:55.440 So your frontline service providers like nurses and code enforcement. 00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:01.360 Code enforcement, pretty much their big weapon of choice, if you will, is a clipboard. 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:09.599 Or now I guess it's an um a tablet, but um taken down this and their job is asking questions. 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:10.960 They don't carry a gun. 00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.039 It's a lot easier for someone to answer their questions. 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:28.639 And for a nurse, if somebody's brought into the emergency room, there's a sense that you can trust a healthcare professional because their job is to heal and their job is to ask questions. 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:29.920 Where does it hurt? 00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:31.119 Why does it hurt? 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.559 What caused this? 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:52.639 And those of us who um serve in those frontline roles can be a part of gathering the information, the knowledge that we need, and then pulling the resources to actually safely recover the victims. 00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:00.880 What would you say, though, to somebody who's thinking, if I walk away from this scenario, I see it right now, I've got them red-handed. 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.280 If I walk away from this scenario, they're they're gonna lose them. 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:06.800 They're gonna disappear. 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.960 Um, call 911. 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:16.639 So they call 911, and you talked about how it, you know, even though they they're they're gonna come out for sure. 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:23.519 But in like a labor trafficking case, there may be a bigger investigation behind the scenes to put it all together. 00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.519 So you're not just pinching one bee, you're taking down the beehive ultimately. 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.480 Is that accurate? 00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:29.760 Yes, yes. 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:36.480 And it is it is very challenging because the lines get blurry for sure. 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:55.760 But for instance, I had a call one time, and it was very clear that this was likely sex trafficking, and the person was standing on the street watching the car pick the girl up. 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.760 And it's like call 911 and give them the license, please. 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:09.840 You can do that right now because of course we use the hotline number, which is 888-373788. 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:20.480 And they can walk you through what you've seen to and and help identify what might or might not be trafficking. 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:33.440 But in the moment, if a crime may be being committed, it doesn't really matter if it's human trafficking or some other form of criminal activity. 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.280 You call 911. 00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:42.480 And so for a code enforcement officer, your immediate inclination may very well be what mine is, which is I see it. 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:47.199 I'm gonna, I'm gonna put myself between the perpetrator and these victims, and I'm gonna grab and pull them out. 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.079 However, that is not a good idea for the long term. 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:56.719 Step outside, pretend like you're continuing to write your notes, step outside around the corner, call 911. 00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.679 Or if you're out there with a radio, do the radio, call your police. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.800 If you're a coder force nostril, you've got a direct dial to your police. 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.480 So call them, get in to do that. 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:06.960 Now, what about less obvious situations? 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.320 So let's go back to my motel. 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.199 And I keep going back to the motel because I actively have a couple cases and have had litigate have litigated these over the years. 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:22.239 You know, there's a great uh white paper by the DOJ on uh the price, it's called

the problem with budget motels. 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.280 And the problem is beyond just cheap. 00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:34.079 The the problem is that oftentimes there's a very strong uh correlation between the some of these budget motels and crime. 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.440 And a big, a big place for human trafficking ends up at a motel. 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:42.079 And so uh prostitution, human trafficking. 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.960 A lot of times there's there's a major crossover between those. 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:56.480 So, what might a code enforcement officer, what signs might a code officer look for when they're going through a place like a hotel or motel that might indicate that there's human trafficking? 00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.400 Perhaps in the how they how it operates. 00:45:58.480 --> 00:45:59.760 Do you have any idea of that? 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.719 Well, you know, we've got some great civil cases that have been published. 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:14.719 I think last year in Atlanta, there was a civil case where the victims got like a$40 million settlement. 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.840 And the signs were that the desk had condoms that they made available to the girls when they came in. 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:31.920 The security people seemed to be more about managing, getting people to their reservations. 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:37.679 The rooms were being used for very short amounts of time. 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:44.960 There were multiple cars coming and going during the night or in the afternoon. 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:50.320 There is this kind of romantic sense that this happens after dark. 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:59.519 But this is why when you see school kids at a hotel at noon, activity has increased during the lunch break. 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:03.360 And residential brothels are also happening. 00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:14.639 And code enforcement will get uh a call because the neighborhood is really tired of the increased traffic at this one place. 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:26.719 And then they find out that the um it's being run, they go, code enforcement goes in, and there's not even regular furniture. 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:31.039 The bedrooms just each have two mattresses on the floor. 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:38.800 The whole thing is when something doesn't look right, asking another question. 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:52.880 And the complaints that corroborate from community members can support your observations, but again, what is your local protocol? 00:47:53.280 --> 00:48:14.400 And this is something that over and over again, and from a legal perspective, one of the things that SB963 that now created a way for nurses and doctors in emergency rooms to screen without risk of liability. 00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:19.039 It's really important that you have a written protocol. 00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:27.519 And if your code enforcement department doesn't have that yet, just ask when will it be ready? 00:48:27.679

--> 00:48:29.039 This week or next week. 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.599 Right. 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:30.719 It needs to be done. 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.519 Protocols are the name of the game these days. 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.360 Policies and procedures, best practices, whatever you want to call it. 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:39.360 Uh, we need those in place. 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:45.280 And, you know, I've been doing this 20 years and it probably represented hundreds of agencies uh in California. 00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:51.840 And I have, I don't think I've ever seen a policy or procedure involving human trafficking for code enforcement. 00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:00.880 I do think the involvement, the overt involvement of code enforcement in human trafficking is a relatively new thing, but I think it's a good thing for code enforcement to be. 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.519 And there's some other indicators that I've seen would be like a motel that charges hourly rates. 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:10.239 There's no legitimate purpose for it uh affiliate with hourly rates at a motel. 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:22.159 Uh, I had one where in the manager's quarters they had a price sheet and it was one price for known prostitutes, aka human trafficking victims, and a different price for everybody else. 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:27.679 So they darn well knew and they were charging a higher cost, of course, because they could for criminal activity. 00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:33.280 Um see ones like charging cash only, non-traceable, non-trackable kind of stuff. 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.280 We had a case where uh the police went into a motel where they suspected human trafficking was occurring in that moment of a juvenile and they would not give them access or cooperate anyway, even give them the camera uh material. 00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:53.840 So uh, and and I'll share this story that I've shared in a prior episode uh that maybe you've seen before, Doctor. 00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:04.400 And that is I had a code officer uh tell me that in a in a city she works with uh in San Diego County, uh, so we're talking an affluent county in California. 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.400 We think this stuff doesn't happen in our backyards. 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.280 California is one of the bigger consumers or locations for human trafficking, shamefully, in our country. 00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:13.360 And it's occurring down there, for example. 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:22.159 But she was telling me, you know, Matt, I was just on my lunch break and I was just driving in my personal car from point A to point B, and I saw a naked young lady running down the street. 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.480 So major red flag, obviously, number one. 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.039 Number two, she went, no one went to help. 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:28.239 Problem number three. 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:35.679 Uh, she then goes out and grabs this girl to kind of bring her in and try to put a blanket or something, a coat around her. 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:41.519 And uh the girl had a barcode tattooed on her, not in some sort of like artsy way. 00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:43.440 It was a trafficking barcode. 00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:51.039 And meanwhile, perhaps the next red flag is while she's got this gal in her car and she's trying to figure out what to do and she's calling the police. 00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:55.760 Uh, this car is circling and she felt very unsafe. 00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:03.039 Have you seen this scenario, I guess, of people literally running naked down the street or this tattoo of a barcode? 00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:07.199 I mean, that's like you scan a can of soup back to my example with a barcode. 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.000 This is a human being. 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:09.199 Have you seen this before? 00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:27.760 Well, in the early cases here in Orange County and San Diego and LA, there was evidence that trafficking rings would put barcodes on victims and literally keep records by scanning those barcodes. 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:40.719 And it's um it but here's the thing that happens as the traffickers learn and adapt and change. 00:51:41.199 --> 00:52:00.400 And so if we're looking for people with barcodes, they've moved on, and literally we have evidence now that there have been cases where victims have been chipped, just like you do if your dog gets lost, you can find them. 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:19.920 So I think the things that are ordinary are more helpful for us to learn when people don't have their own identification documents when you ask where who are you, where are you from, if they don't seem to be working in safe conditions. 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:40.719 It's like I was doing training at a hospital emergency room near a port, and suddenly one of the nurses said, Oh my goodness, that guy that came in with his foot half chopped off, he should have been wearing steel-toed boots by OSHA law. 00:52:40.960 --> 00:53:03.280 And so somebody who's not compliant with basic human resource guidelines in a hotel, in a restaurant, and in landscaping businesses, all those kinds of things in factories, there shouldn't be a 14-year-old running a poultry deboning machine. 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:05.519 Those kinds of things. 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:14.719 And code enforcement, because they're there to check that ventilation system is okay, they may see something. 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:23.920 And just by reporting that, we may have what we need to go in and uncover a labor trafficking case. 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:24.880 Absolutely. 00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:44.400 You just made a fantastic case for the continued need for these municipal codes that govern things that seem out of the ordinary, a bad property, an overgrown, you know, a completely overgrown yard, you know, 20 cars, 10 cars in a house, single family house. 00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:54.000 These kind of things very well may be limited to those, but they also may

be the old phrase where there's smoke, there's fire, and an indicator of a much bigger problem. 00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:04.000 You know, sometimes here in California and in the legislatures across the state, of across the political spectrum, they get this idea sometimes that we're being too nitpicky on these laws. 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.239 And why are there so many laws getting in the way of people? 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.360 Well, these laws also protect people. 00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:15.599 And so I encourage our legislators to keep an open mind that these laws are traditionally born out of tragedy. 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:26.719 Let's not forget the history and the source of that, and realize that it may not just be about the number of cars or the rodents in there, which some people may think is a minor, but it's a major issue. 00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:30.400 Um, it may really be a way to protect broader things. 00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:35.280 Or put differently, speaking code enforcement parlance, the broken windows theory. 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:42.400 Small problems that go ignored lead to bigger problems that go ignored, and then bigger problems lead, of course, to bigger problems. 00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:44.639 And so we need to nip these in the bud. 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:51.280 Maybe it's not a safe place to go do human trafficking if they know that there are codes that are being followed. 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.719 It's up, it's up to code. 00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.800 So, Doctor, you said speaking of that, you said something in your book about um, I actually want to share this here. 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:10.239 You were you were talking about dealing with a person who was trying to do good, and she was trying to set up a restoration home, otherwise known maybe as a rescue place or a safe house for somebody to go. 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.320 And she decided, you know, I'm gonna get involved and I'm gonna stop this and I'm gonna open a place. 00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:29.840 But her, you shared with her that the traffic, the trafficking task force couldn't send victims to her home because it didn't comply with the law, didn't have the permits, didn't comply with various, you know, building and other safety codes. 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:40.159 Why is the condition of a well-meaning rescue or safe home, why is that relevant to whether a victim should be sent there or not? 00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:44.559 Oh my goodness, we should do another episode on that. 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.320 It has crossed my mind that this might be a multiple part episode. 00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:49.440 Yeah, yeah. 00:55:49.599 --> 00:56:17.840 Uh um, I don't know how long people stay on to listen, but yeah, guidelines for running a restoration home, especially if you're housing children under the age of 18, are very strict, and we have enough evidence of poor actors who have caused more damage than good. 00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:22.559 And so the guidelines are there for safety. 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:43.360 And I think one of the most important things, people have good hearts, but if they don't have the knowledge and insight to do this with best practice, with pure motives, and blamelessly, they can actually cause harm instead of good. 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.239 They can do things because it makes them feel good. 00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:53.440 They get celebrated, they get awards, all of that kind of thing. 00:56:53.599 --> 00:57:04.719 And I'm not one to talk, I get awards, but I try to, you know, keep them on a back shelf because the real job is to educate our community. 00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:16.559 But ultimately, and from my faith platform, my faith, I want that third element of blameless. 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:27.679 And I talk about this in the book because when it doesn't go well, when we haven't done our due diligence, people blame God. 00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:37.199 And that breaks down the opportunity for belonging in this community of faith. 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:46.559 And so people with good intentions, we all know the adage of the road to um hell is paved with good intentions. 00:57:46.719 --> 00:58:02.079 But if you're not willing to do the work, um, if you're not willing to get the license to fill out the paper, um, to persevere, you're probably not going to stick it out as long as a survivor. 00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:04.639 There are no instant solutions. 00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:10.239 So the guidelines, the laws are there for a reason. 00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:19.360 And sometimes they may feel burdensome, but the purpose is to protect the victim. 00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:25.920 And I'm going to follow those guidelines, even though I get frustrated. 00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:42.320 I'm not taking shortcuts because I do know that in my community we have really strong partners doing great work, and we can find the resources that we need as a community. 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:49.280 And honestly, here in our community, we're both here in Orange County, California. 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:56.800 Our community has a very strong response to support survivors of human trafficking. 00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:57.679 That's great. 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:03.599 And that's something that we can always improve on, even here, and it should be replicated everywhere. 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:10.000 Uh, there's almost no end to the level of attention and resources that we need to dedicate and diligence to tackling this. 00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:17.599 I think we're desensitized a lot in our culture right now that we think, oh, it's not my problem, or it's everybody's different. 00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:24.079 And so, you know, I shouldn't say something, but it just like the sun at the airport, if something seems off, speak up. 00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:24.639 Right? 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:27.920 It's actually a bit more articulate than that, but that one's not so bad. 00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:34.480 So, Doctor, what

advice do you have to code enforcement officers and cities? 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.360 Your chance to speak to them kind of directly right here. 00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:43.440 What advice do you have to them to help contribute to solving this issue in a meaningful way? 00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:52.239 I think um, including your city manager, your city council, and getting those protocols in writing. 00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:59.840 So if there's something in your city policies that is missing, add that. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:12.400 Go to city council meetings, ask why aren't we checking on why minors are at this motel at 12 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon? 01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.079 Do we have guidelines for massage parlors? 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:27.679 That's a big movement right here in Orange County right now to have city councils have guidelines for illicit massage parlors, how to uncover them. 01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:36.480 There are some illicit massage parlors that are clearly um being used for commercial sex. 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:42.960 Oh, we've handled, I can tell you that I have personally handled dozens and dozens of those cases, and they exist all over. 01:00:43.280 --> 01:01:18.960 And I think too, understanding the risk of the movement to legalize prostitution, understanding the harms of commercial sexual exploitation to the person, to the community, and understanding more than just, oh, I don't believe in prostitution, but understanding why, so that we can articulately communicate when we're at city council why we don't want to legalize this. 01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:24.480 2008, San Francisco tried to legalize prostitution. 01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.039 Dr. 01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:30.400 Melissa Farley, a dear friend up there, really fought that battle. 01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:35.119 But the battle is coming back, and we can use our platforms. 01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:43.440 I talk about the quality model on my podcast, and I'm sure that there's opportunity. 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:57.360 I'll give you a list of names of people you can you can talk to about how city councils can create a policy that then code enforcement can implement. 01:01:57.920 --> 01:01:58.480 Wonderful. 01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:59.519 Thank you very much. 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:06.800 So for all our folks out there, make sure that you're building out your municipal code or if you're a county county code to include these things. 01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:18.800 In addition, if you're in California, we have the Red Light abatement law, which declares that any building or place used for lewd lascivious conduct, including prostitution, is a nuisance, no surprise there. 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:20.480 And we have an array of tools. 01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:26.400 And I call that for those of you who know me, you know, obviously don't pinch the bees, take the beehive in that case. 01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:27.599 And that's that's a good one there. 01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:29.760 So, Doctor, you've been very generous with your time. 01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:33.519 I feel like we could honestly go down a hundred different other topics here. 01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.480 There's so much, but thank you so much for the work you do. 01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:42.000 And thank you so much for joining us today to talk with us about the role of code enforcement in human trafficking. 01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:46.960 And I'm going to invite you to be on my podcast very, very soon. 01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:48.719 So thank you for having me. 01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:49.760 I'd be honored. 01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:50.800 Thank you, Doctor. 01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.800 Uh, folks, thank you for joining us for this episode of True Code. 01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:01.440 Please keep your ears peeled, I guess, for future episodes on our next episode of True Code Podcast. 01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:02.400 Thank you. 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:07.679 Thank you for joining us on this journey. 01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:13.599 If you enjoyed what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, and review us wherever you're listening right now. 01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:15.039 Until next time.