התמלול המלא של Lamination and Illumination - Britty O'Connor of Flour & Salt

And thankfully we are kind of all in the same all four of us in our family are all in the same, you know, musical wheelhouse. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.079 Nice. 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:50.079 Um we get into some hip-hop and stuff, but um again, pop, yeah, hip-hop, you know, like we're especially country pop. 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:50.399 Yep. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:51.279 We get a lot of that. 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:55.199 I'm just like teaching her the joy of singing in the back of a car. 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:56.319 That's really what we're up to. 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:57.040 There you go. 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:57.439 Yeah. 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.120 Um, Morgan Whalen. 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.519 No, we haven't gotten into Morgan Whalen. 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:03.680 So is she uh drawn to female artists? 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:04.480 Yes, yeah. 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:04.959 She doesn't. 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.439 She'll be like, can you put something on that a girl is singing? 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:08.000 Perfect. 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:08.319 Yeah. 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:09.439 I'm like, I get it. 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:09.920 Yes. 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:10.480 Yeah. 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:19.199 And the last question in our lightning round is maybe a little bit deeper than the the first two, is what today, uh, what is inspiring to you? 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:19.759 That's right. 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:21.279 I was trying to remember what this question was. 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:23.680 I yes, so yeah, full disclosure, you've got these. 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:24.160 I have to do that. 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:25.600 I do know them, yeah. 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:31.839 Um I think right now in particular, I'm we're on summer break from flour and salt. 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.639 We take an annual, or actually bi-annual, break once in the summer and once in the winter. 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.040 And so just like time and space really inspires me. 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:56.480 I'm not working, but I just set myself up with a day where I'm gonna I made a test batch of plaque, like laminated dough today, and I'm gonna go in and laminate over the weekend and just like test a bunch of weird fillings and lamination techniques. 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:03.199 So is this to say that uh even on your vacations you stick around and think about the business? 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:03.519 Yeah. 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:06.399 You must take vacations. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:08.800 Yeah, like literally leave this date. 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:09.360 We do. 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:10.720 Yes, we do take vacations. 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:12.959 But on your summer one, you like to stick closer to home. 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:13.920 Yeah, we like to stick around. 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:22.319 Well, um, for those of you not from our neck of the woods, I mean central New York in in the summer is a pretty special place. 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:23.439 It is, yeah. 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:31.279 And I get it, like we leave sometimes in the summer, but I'd rather leave in the spring, in the winter. 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:31.839 Yeah. 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:36.639 But summer into fall in our neck of the woods is a really It's perfect. 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:53.600 Especially now, you know, it seems like in central New York, Mohawk Valley, June and July, the the heat has pushed a little earlier into June and July, and August seems to start to cool already, and August is like August and September are just the winners. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:54.240 Yeah. 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:55.120 It's the best time. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:57.680 It is definitely a strategically placed vacation. 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.199 Well, um cheers to you for taking that break. 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:08.800 And and uh that is though I don't have a a big agenda uh in our conversation. 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:17.040 Your you your mindset and your outlook on how you operate the business is is definitely something I want to talk about. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:23.439 Um but let me first um thank you for for coming and and opening up the lightning round. 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:25.279 And uh I brought a little toast. 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:25.600 Yeah. 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:30.399 A cheers to 10 years of flour and salt bakery. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.879 You've but what was it last week or two weeks ago? 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.959 Uh well it's technically July 27th. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:37.920 So just a few days ago was our first day open ten years ago. 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:39.759 So you were actually closed on your tenure. 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:39.920 Yeah. 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:41.680 Which is how it should be. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:42.639 Yeah. 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.480 Cheers to 10 years of operating uh scratch bakery. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.279 That doesn't happen by accident. 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:52.000 Yeah. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:57.439 And uh so I brought this, I I put a lot of thought into selecting a bottle of wine today. 00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.360 Um don't you always? 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.959 Yes, but uh like I really thought about this one. 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:04.560 So I wanted to bring bubbles. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:17.680 I love to drink bubbles, it's pretty much my my if I can drink sparkling wine all the time, if my esophagus would allow me to drink um and I didn't have um acid reflux, I would drink sparkling wine 24-7. 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:24.079 Um, this is from Red Tail Ridge um on uh Seneca Lake, and it's called Perpetual Change. 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.800 This is called Method Ancestral. 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:40.480 So this is um in the style of a champagne, but the reason why I thought it was appropriate to celebrate 10 years of a scratch bakery is Method Ancestral is as close to sourdough as wine comes. 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.120 Cool. 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:54.399 So

each couvet, so the first batch was its own, the first vintage was its own, and then they separate a little of the first vintage and set it aside to make the second vintage, and they call them couvets. 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.919 Um so it it isn't a vintage per se, right? 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.399 You can't put a year on it because it's blending. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:01.200 Right. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:14.480 But in theory, and this is couvet number three, each couvet has a little bit of the original in it, right? 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.240 That's a cool like a sourdough. 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:16.799 Yeah. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:27.440 Um, and so the the I don't know if it's 25%, but that is what introduces the fermentation into the wine, just like your starter. 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:31.120 I'm actually surprised that not all wine is made that way. 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:31.600 No. 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:37.600 Um I mean, natural yeasts, yes, yeah, but not by taking some of the liquid. 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:38.080 Right. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:44.080 Um, you can start the fermentation without that, you know, and I don't need to tell you about fermentation. 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:50.960 But um, or you can add commercial yeast, which is what a lot of people do, or a little bit of commercial, just a little to get it going. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.000 But um this is a lovely sparkling wine to celebrate. 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:55.039 Let's cheers again. 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:57.759 Ten years of of uh flour and salt. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.639 Thank you, Tim. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:09:59.919 That's great, great work. 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:06.639 Yeah, and if I can just say this is like a fever dream being here interviewed by you ten years later. 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:12.720 Like I cannot cannot believe if after we were down before you opened your that was the first time I met you. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:13.039 Yes. 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:14.320 You like cold called me. 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:15.440 Yes, I did. 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.559 And you were like, we're gonna open a bakery. 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:19.440 Can we talk to you? 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.360 And I was like, Oh yeah, you can talk to me. 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.759 And I'm sure I said like we're far enough away, I think. 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:24.639 I would said that to someone. 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:26.240 Oh yeah, I couldn't care less about that. 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:29.919 I was in I was in I was in a living hell at that point. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:30.799 Oh, really? 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:31.759 You didn't seem like it. 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:32.159 No? 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:32.320 No. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.080 I didn't try to tell you to run away. 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.320 Not well, maybe, but I didn't hear it. 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:37.039 Yeah. 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:37.600 Yeah, yeah. 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.080 Which is part of the sickness of insufferable. 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:40.799 Yeah. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:41.519 Yeah. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.120 Um thank you. 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:52.240 Tell me about um well, you're you're a native of of Hamilton, New York, by way of Colgate University. 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:53.039 That's right. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:57.440 So you majored in in baking at Colgate University, right? 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:59.039 Yeah, yeah, they offer that for sure. 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:00.960 No, don't no misleading advertisements. 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:02.720 Tell me how this went. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.240 Um, you know, and your husband also is a is a Colgate alum. 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.919 So um tell me about like the period before you opened the doors to flour and salt. 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:12.639 Sure. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:20.480 I went to Colgate, I got my bachelor's in English lit, and while I was in my undergrad, I was also working on my teaching certification. 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:25.120 So I actually stayed at Colgate for a fifth year and got my master's degree in teaching. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:25.679 Okay. 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:30.720 And then I was a student teacher at Hamilton Central and I moved to the Hudson Valley. 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:32.799 So I lived in Hudson for two years. 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:34.159 My favorite town. 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:35.120 I didn't know that about that. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.759 Yeah, and it wasn't like near this was, you know, 10 years ago now. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.559 So it wasn't even as trendy and funky as it is now, but it was it was happening. 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:48.639 Um and I taught at a Waldorf school there for a couple of years. 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:50.159 So you went there for the job. 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:50.720 I did. 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.879 I went there for the job, and at the time Brendan was in Rabbit in the Rye. 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:55.279 Okay. 00:11:55.440 --> 00:12:02.320 Uh, a band that he was in for a while, and they were scoring a um an interactive play in Brooklyn. 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:03.279 No kidding. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:05.120 Yeah, yeah, it was a bizarre time. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:06.799 So your bolts were downstate. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:07.120 Yeah. 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:07.600 Oh, cool. 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.399 So we we started dating my graduate year. 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.960 Oh we actually didn't know each other while we were at Colgate. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:13.519 No kidding. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:14.320 Strange, yeah. 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:14.960 Very interesting. 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:20.320 He had moved back to work on an organic farm with a buddy of his and was playing music around town. 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.720 And so actually, the cafe that we now own is where we met for the very first time. 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:25.600 No kidding. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:25.919 Yeah. 00:12:26.159

--> 00:12:27.039 What was it called then? 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.679 It was the Barge Canal Coffee Shop. 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:30.080 Yeah. 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:31.919 And then it was a bakery? 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.759 No uh well, it was Saxby's for one year, which is like a college chain. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:36.159 Yeah. 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:37.919 And then it was the Ryberry for four. 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:38.799 The Riberry. 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:39.279 Yeah. 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.879 Which was a fantastic artisan bread and pastry shop. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.159 And then they wanted to get out of the business and we bought them out. 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.840 And that's how we came into that space. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.879 But is it ten years in that space? 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:59.039 It no, it's only um it's four in that space, ten of the business, and eleven actually of me operating flour and salt. 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:00.320 But I was satellite. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.919 Tell me the the first year was pop-ups, right? 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:05.600 Yeah, I was at the farmer's market. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:10.559 And then my name started to get out there, so university people were calling me for orders. 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:15.600 Um and I was just like operating out of a cottage kitchen at the farm where Brendan was working. 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.279 So we kind of had this like in-between moment I was in Hudson for a couple years. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:20.399 He was in Brooklyn. 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:27.200 Then he moved to Hudson with me, and we could not elbow our way into any sort of community in Hudson. 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.039 We had a really hard time like finding a group of people. 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:36.639 And um, I loved, I really loved teaching, but we kept having this conversation. 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.279 Like, where did we feel most at home, or where do we feel like we're gonna have the sense of community? 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.720 And Hamilton was the answer. 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:43.200 Totally. 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:50.000 Brendan established a really nice group of friends when he moved back, and then I was a bonus feature. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:51.759 I was like, Me too, now you're gonna be friends with me. 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:52.960 So you're from New Jersey. 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:53.919 Where's Brendan from? 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.240 Uh Southern New York, Woodbury, New York. 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:56.639 Yeah. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.000 So uh that is an interesting way, you know. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.600 And and I don't know how many Colgate alums hang around? 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:04.879 Not a ton. 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:05.440 Yeah. 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.679 How many hang around in open businesses like like flour and salt? 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:10.960 Or yeah, not a lot. 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:12.879 I can only think of a couple

other people. 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.879 There are alums who hang around, but after they've gone and had a whole career somewhere, they come and retire. 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:19.279 Sure. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.360 Not a lot of people stay in Hamilton. 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:34.639 So flour and salt was popping up for the first year at the farmers market and you were developing uh a a name, and I remember those bagels having come to and you were strictly bagels then. 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.559 Uh we were bagels with some cookies. 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:37.200 Oh, right. 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.200 Yeah, some like bonus sweet items. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:39.919 Gotcha. 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:44.879 And then you decided this was worth a a shot. 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:45.759 Kind of. 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:58.320 Somebody, so our landlord at our Maple App building, Chuck Fox, who is a Colgate alum and he lives in Hamilton, came up to me and said, I'm gonna buy out this business in order to purchase their building. 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:02.159 It was a lawnmower repair shop that had been there for 35 plus years. 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.759 And I think that you should open a bakery on the first floor. 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.879 And I had been interviewing for teaching jobs at the same time and couldn't find anything. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:20.399 And then the same week that I was offered a job in Whitesboro, which was gonna be like a little bit of a commute for me in Hamilton, he came up to me and offered me the maple space. 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.039 And I was 25 at the time, I think. 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:28.879 And I thought, like, if I royally screw this up, I've still got I have time, yeah, to recover. 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.519 So okay, like, yeah, let's do it. 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:32.080 Wow. 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:38.799 Yeah, and then less than a year later, so I think it was 10 months from when he asked to when we opened doors. 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:39.600 Yeah. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.879 And what did your volume go in? 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.480 So I I know you were a cottage bakery the the first year. 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:57.279 Like, can you give me a sense for what a a big bake was for you to go to the farmer's market versus, you know, the kind of volume that you did in in Maple Ave? 00:15:58.159 --> 00:15:59.519 I could have been doing more. 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.600 I was making probably 250 bagels, I think, okay, by myself. 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.720 For the farmer's market. 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:05.919 For the farmer's market. 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.480 I would show up at eight and they'd be gone by eleven. 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.600 So I could have been increasing production. 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:13.120 I think I was probably just tired. 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:13.440 Sure. 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:14.960 Yeah, and had no other hands. 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.960 It was truly just me with like one 20 quart Hobart. 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:19.440 Wow. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:19.759 Yeah. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.600 So I was making multiple batches of dough and hand rolling all of them. 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:31.919 And now um we do our so our bagel production has actually ebbed and flowed over the years. 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:39.440 Now that we've become more of a cafe, people understand us less as like a bulk bagel spot that you go to pick up a dozen bagels. 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.360 So we'll do 200 bagels on a Wednesday. 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:41.840 Okay. 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:42.320 Yeah. 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.039 But we people are crazy for our sourdough. 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:45.600 Yeah. 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.399 That has really stolen the game. 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.360 And uh that came in much later. 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:52.639 Yeah, not too long ago. 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:54.480 Only three, three years ago, I think. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:03.919 Because I mean, at one point you were operating a bagel bakery, really, cafe, and around the corner was the aforementioned uh uh what was it? 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.359 Uh the rye berry was there. 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:05.519 Yeah. 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:05.839 Yeah. 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:06.640 And they did a nice job. 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.440 A couple of very talented bakers in there. 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.839 One who worked for me years prior. 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:12.640 That's right. 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:13.359 I forgot about that. 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:14.799 Um at Utica Bread. 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:20.000 So I mean, yeah, it's a it's a small community of talented of you know skilled bakers, that's for sure. 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.319 Um and sourdough came into play when you came into the new location. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.279 Trying to fill a hole in the market, yeah. 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:27.680 Yeah. 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:40.480 And also, I mean, you uh for for listeners who might not know about you, I mean you have a you kept the original space on Maple Ave when you moved around the corner um to what's that street called? 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:41.279 Lebanon Street. 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:42.559 I don't know any of the names of street. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:43.359 That's okay. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.400 You literally moved like, you know, forty pages. 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.039 But you kept the original space and turned that into production. 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:51.920 Yeah. 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:58.960 Um and the new space that you occupied is is simply cafe. 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.000 It has a small kitchen for breakfast sandwiches, right? 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:02.559 Yep. 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:09.039 So you were filling a gap, but you have the space to to grow into some of these products. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:22.640 Um tell me about I mean there's a lot in between bagels and sourdough, though,

because you have a arguably my favorite part of what you do is is the pastry. 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:23.599 Thank you. 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:24.319 Me too. 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:32.880 I'm a sucker for a laminated pastry, and I also know how incredibly, incredibly challenging it is. 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:33.359 Yeah. 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:38.880 Um and that's one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of flour and salt, is because I know how fucking hard it is. 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:40.640 Um I did that. 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.400 I operated Utica bread. 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:50.559 I wasn't the baker, but I operated the business, and it was one of the most challenging chapters of my career. 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:56.559 Um so tell me about, you know, like you started with bagels and the occasional cookie. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:01.279 Um tell me about the evolution of the bake program. 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:08.960 Yeah, I that's really where I started was with sweets and quick breads and yeasted enriched dough, like cinnamon buns. 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.359 I think it's where a lot of bakers begin. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:12.720 Those are those are great places. 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.359 Yeah, great like entry-level experiments. 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:20.559 Um and so when we opened the cafe, I wanted to have a line of baked goods. 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:22.079 It was relatively small. 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.400 From the beginning, we've always had our vegan chocolate chip cookie, which is like the most popular thing. 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:27.680 That's crazy. 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.160 Yeah, we sell hundreds of them a week. 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.319 Um and then we had cinnamon buns and muffins. 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:40.640 I definitely tried my hand at laminated pastry, but knew I did not have the skills. 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:48.000 And at the time, I mean, all the time, it's really important to me to not really clearly step on somebody else's toes. 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.519 So when we first opened, Martine, who I think you're familiar with, yeah, in Modern War. 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.480 She was still at the Hamilton Farmers Market and she's got a wonderful laminated pastry program. 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:02.880 And so I didn't bring that into the cafe because that was really her corner of the market during farmers' markets. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:05.680 She, by the way, is still laminating by hand, I believe. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.160 Yeah. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:06.559 Oh, yeah. 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:07.759 I know. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:08.559 She's amazing. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:09.759 True labor of it. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.960 I really appreciate the style of life that she's created for herself. 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.079 Um and so same thing with bread. 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:26.160 When the rye berry opened, I maybe was starting to develop a little bit of interest in sourdough, but then they

filled that hole, and so okay, that became theirs. 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:35.359 And so opportunities opened up for me to grow my own skill set, which is fully, you know, I'm just like flying blind over here, completely self-trained. 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.960 Um, and so it took me a while to create a laminated pastry program that I feel really good about. 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:47.440 We've been making it for four years, and I feel like maybe six months ago I felt really good about it. 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:48.160 Really? 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:48.799 Yeah. 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:56.000 Well, you know, your your expectations, your standards is so much higher, I think, in every profession than anybody else's. 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:02.960 So I think what may have been like a minuscule shift for a customer's palette to me was like, yeah. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:26.319 You know, one of the things I really notice about um, I mean, bakeries are very trendy these days and and uh you know have tremendous you being one of them have tremendous social media marketing programs and um but like social media in bakeries, you know, like I'm I know you follow a bunch, they only photograph the really perfect ones, you know. 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:32.880 And so when they cut that croissant in half and and they they show it to you on social media, they don't all look like that. 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:33.359 Right. 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.119 You know, like that takes a long time to to get there. 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:38.319 And it is an art. 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.759 Now you are using a sheeter. 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:40.480 I do. 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:40.720 Yeah. 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:41.359 Sharon. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.079 Sharon the sheeter. 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:43.200 Sharon the sheeter, that's right. 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.799 Gifted to me for free from yeah, Sharon Burnsleader. 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:47.440 Wild. 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:48.880 My life forever changed. 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:50.960 Still working, still operating. 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:51.680 Oh yeah. 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.440 No, we take very good care of Sharon. 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:55.200 She's extremely important to me. 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:56.640 That's awesome. 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:57.039 Yeah. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:01.440 Um well your your pastries are Just second to none. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:01.920 Thank you. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:02.880 They really are. 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:05.359 I'm not a huge bagel person. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:12.880 I do enjoy your bagels, but boy, I I I am a laminated uh I am a laminated pastry person. 00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:14.240 Me too. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:14.720 Yeah. 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.720 Sloane, my daughter's favorite pastry is a chocolate croissant, which is like my proudest. 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:19.279 Sure. 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.039 Like, okay, I've taught you something if this is your favorite bacon. 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.440 Calibo chocolate do you use? 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:25.599 Yeah. 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:27.759 They use the the batons, right? 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.160 Yes. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.799 She will run into the pantry every time she comes to visit. 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:32.559 She likes to eat them cold, too. 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:34.559 Yeah, she just eats them like a little snack. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:35.119 Yeah. 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:36.640 Well, it's dark chocolate. 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:37.279 Yeah. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.240 That's awesome. 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.240 Um have you ever made a cannelae? 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.720 No, but I had one at bread alone, actually speaking, and I've never had one anywhere else. 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.599 I think about it. 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:48.079 Where are you getting them? 00:22:48.400 --> 00:23:00.799 Uh just you know, when whenever I travel outside of this area, because there really isn't anybody uh uh doing um that sort of, you know, that's it's a very interesting process, and you've got to have a certain copper mold. 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:01.359 Yep. 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.960 Um, you know, you but boy, they are just amazing. 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:05.359 Yeah. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:06.799 No, I've thought about that cantile. 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:07.519 Cool. 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:08.400 Eventually you'll do it. 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:09.039 Yeah. 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:09.759 I know. 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:14.160 I at one point there was definitely a copper cantile pan in a cart somewhere for me. 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.680 And I think well, if you ever wanted to test run them and have me come out and eat all about it. 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:20.480 I'm all about it. 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.920 It's such a cool pastry. 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:28.160 Perhaps one of the most exciting new wineries in the Finger Lakes is Apollo's Praise. 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.160 And their wines do not collect dust. 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:35.279 So they encourage you to join their wine and glee club to gain first access to their wines. 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.759 Especially the very anticipated 2025 vintage. 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:44.799 Visit their website, Apollosprays.com, or on Instagram to connect with them. 00:23:48.240 --> 00:24:05.200 I think one of the things that I'm I admire most about you and and Brendan and how you run your business is is well, you're pretty transparent, um, and that comes through in your your socials and the way that you market yourself. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:10.400 Um and it's a about a lot more than bread and bagels. 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.039 Um and you made it ten years. 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:13.519 Yeah. 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.799 Like I said, that's not an accident, you know. 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:24.640 Um considering a bakery food service, you know, living to five is nothing short of a

miracle. 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.599 Uh and then, you know, honing the craft into a ten year something to be set for that, you know. 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:32.160 Thanks. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.160 And sustainability of owner operators. 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.440 Sometimes you might have a wildly successful comp uh uh concept, right? 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.720 But you don't make it five years because somebody self self-destructs, right? 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.759 Or they're not there. 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:48.319 Right. 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:48.880 Yeah. 00:24:49.359 --> 00:25:00.480 So um what I think the the greatest opening question to lead you into this is your bakery, uh what time do you start baking? 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:01.440 Five. 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.240 Five a.m. 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:02.720 Yeah. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.799 It's a really reasonable schedule. 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.640 4 30 if you feel a little squirrely about the bake, like if it's kind of big. 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:09.519 If it's a big day. 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:11.599 Yeah, but five o'clock. 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:28.480 Because one of the reasons that a s a bakery is so damn inhospitable to its production is because we s have well, it's not just we, it's I think pretty much the world over. 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.319 You know, the the the the most talented bakers work all night. 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:40.559 Um and that's how our production was when when I operated Utica Bread, and and it's hard. 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.200 Yeah. 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:43.519 Fermentation is my friend. 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:45.519 That's how I made that happen. 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:47.440 We cold ferment our bagels. 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:47.759 Okay. 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:54.319 Um, I've figured out I've dialed in a laminated pastry recipe that rolls over really nicely the following day. 00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:54.880 Okay. 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.559 Um, same with our sourdough. 00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:58.720 Our sourdough cold ferments all night. 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.279 Like the fridge is my best friend. 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.279 And that's how we pull off that schedule. 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.759 And I've always said that I won't create a schedule that I wouldn't work myself. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:10.480 So I just was never gonna have a 1 a.m. 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.200 shift. 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:12.880 I wouldn't do it because I won't do it. 00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:14.960 I don't I don't want to cover you if you call in. 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:15.279 Right. 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:19.200 Yeah, so that's 4 30 or 5 is the earliest we start. 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:20.319 Remarkable. 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:24.640 And you have baked goods for sale at 8 a.m. 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:25.119 Mm-hmm. 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:26.960 7 38, depending on the day. 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:27.359 Yeah. 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.880 I like to

sprint. 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:45.440 Well, yeah, and and but if your production schedule is well thought out and intentionally scheduled, I mean your bake, I mean the oven's on when you walk in, right? 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:51.519 Um it's fire's it's at a sitting temperature, you know, like it hangs at 300 and then we yeah, correctly. 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.599 Because it just it never cools below that. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.960 But we used to have the oven fire on its own. 00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:57.599 I know. 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.400 You told me about that, and I can never figure out how to dial it in. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:01.759 Yeah, we'll have to talk about that later. 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:04.480 It doesn't have the capability. 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.359 Oh no, Tim, we bought all of our ovens off of eBay. 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:07.759 Okay. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.160 Yeah. 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.640 Well, it sounds like you would just find all your stuff off of eBay so that you're not in debt. 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.599 Well, yeah, I and I would it was just the opposite. 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:21.440 I I didn't want to have to screw around with with mechanics, so I bought new. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:23.599 I have a I have a guy for that. 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:24.400 I married him. 00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:24.799 Yeah. 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:25.599 Yeah. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.119 Um so you don't bake all night. 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.000 5 a.m. 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:34.640 I mean, there's a a variety of of careers that start at that hour. 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:34.880 Yeah. 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.039 It's early, but not crippling. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:37.519 Right. 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:39.279 Um, I love that. 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:46.480 And and you know, you're baking past when the when the cafe opens, right? 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:47.759 So uh or is everything. 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:48.960 No, everything's prepared. 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:50.799 We close at two, yeah. 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.880 That was the other thing that I worked on a lot with our laminated pastry recipe. 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.880 I really wanted to get something that was more shelf stable just for the day. 00:27:59.119 --> 00:27:59.440 Gotcha. 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:04.960 They don't roll over by any means, but I wanted a few more hours on it, and that was something that we dialed into. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.640 Like a croissant at one still tastes really good. 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.279 It doesn't taste like dried out and crummy and awful. 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:19.039 Some of my favorite vinoiserie is is what I would consider uh you know, a day old. 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:19.519 Sure. 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:20.960 Uh like an almond croissant. 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:21.279 Yeah. 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:28.240 Do you carry, do you intentionally carry product over for any stuffed filled croissants? 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:29.599 Just for the almond croissants. 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:31.839 They're so popular I have to bake for them. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:38.720 And they really aren't it's just not good enough unless you are using unless it is aged a a day. 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:39.920 Uh sure. 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.240 Yeah, because you're soaking them in simple syrup. 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:48.880 So the yeah, the absorption factor of a what is like a stale croissant is better than one that's totally fresh. 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.039 I think they're too fragile when they're super fresh. 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:51.519 Yeah. 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:51.920 Yeah. 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.000 I love those. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:29:02.240 Two of my favorites uh uh of of are just creations that came from the navigation. 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.160 Uh you know, a baker a long time ago was like, well, I have croissants left over. 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:10.160 I'll make this almond croissant, and then it is taken. 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:18.079 That is uh a pastry that almost it's almost ubiquitous in a in a good laminated program, right? 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:20.799 Um and then are you familiar with Bostock? 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:21.440 Yeah. 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.400 So another it's like basically an almond croissant. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:26.960 Right, it's it's an almond croissant, but from Brioche. 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:27.680 Yeah. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:36.319 Um I like I'm drawn to a pastry that was a a product of necessity, you know. 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.799 Like, oh, we've got leftover stuff and now we're gonna make it into to this. 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:41.359 I like that. 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:41.920 Yeah. 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.559 I think that is an important skill too. 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:50.240 Like it I think it's an unsung skill of running a restaurant well with tight margins. 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:58.079 Like, are we figuring out how to fully control food waste and it creatively in such a way that sometimes it actually demands more product? 00:29:58.559 --> 00:29:58.960 Totally. 00:29:59.039 --> 00:29:59.279 Yeah. 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:14.240 Um when I started before I started um Utica bread, myself and Steve, who was our head baker, we went up to King Arthur in Vermont and took a few classes and learned a lot. 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:26.240 And I had the the both of us had the just remarkable opportunity to to work for you know a couple weeks stints um with um Hamelman, Jeff Hamelman. 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:26.640 Cool. 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:34.079 Who is you know really in in American Bakers, um he's one of the the the best. 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:45.200 And uh he said something that I wrote on the wall of uh the tailor and the cook and then Utica Bread. 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.160 Utilization of scrap is crucial. 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.920 Now but it's it's not like a deep philosophical quote. 00:30:52.240

--> 00:31:00.000 Uh he probably said it in, you know, I took a five-day class like fifty or sixty times. 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.720 Keeping blonde scrap, keeping chocolate scrap. 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:10.160 He had a bin of, you know, if it was blonde, it could be a lot of different things. 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:20.319 Laminated scrap, cake scrap, um, you know, brioche, um, and he would do wild stuff with that. 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:26.799 Mixing it all up in a RoboCoup with almond paste and and uh um he's right. 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:33.519 I mean, utilization of scrap can define your profitability or lacter, right? 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.000 Right, right. 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:40.480 It has like a top chef quality to it too, where it's like here's your basket of ingredients that you must figure out how to use. 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.519 And I think sometimes in our case, it's led to like exciting experimentation. 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:46.160 Totally. 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.799 Yeah, to have to figure out how to use this waste product, yeah. 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.799 And then we create something that we feel really good about. 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.319 And then you know and nobody knows, too. 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:53.039 It's like a fun setup. 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:56.640 Right. 00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.119 In in right, you can pretty much put it in the page. 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:01.279 Now, frangipan is essential, yeah. 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.720 Mix it up with something and then it's gluing something else together. 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:15.920 So um, I just I pastry is such a labor of love that to throw anything away is a damn shame and it just costs too much. 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:16.720 Yeah. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:30.960 Um beyond your bake, um you really do have a mentality of at the risk of using a overused word, sustainability. 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:37.599 Um and I follow your socials and you're really good on there. 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:50.319 You're you're candid and human and vulnerable and uh empathetic, and these are all the things that you need to be to operate a business and and have people follow you. 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.319 Yeah, right, because you can't do it on your own. 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:52.880 No. 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.319 Um you can't, it's just less fun, I think. 00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.880 And I almost feel yeah, I mean you'd you'd kill yourself. 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.400 It's small and it's not fun. 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:00.799 Yeah. 00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:02.640 Yeah, it'd be too small. 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:06.000 Um, you'd be single, um, divorced, probably. 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:09.119 Um likely a chain smoker, you know. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:10.799 And like um who's it? 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.119 Marco Pierre White, you're familiar with that guy? 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.759 He's like the most destructive chef in the world. 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.119 Oh, that's probably why I'm not sure. 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:17.839 So talented. 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:19.359 So talented, you know. 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:23.519 But um you have this. 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.000 Well, first of all, like your turnover at flour and salt is pretty managed. 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:37.759 It's not uh I don't I don't know if you have percentages, probably not, but I would wager to say you're well under industry norms of turnover. 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:38.799 I would hope so. 00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:40.559 Especially these days, I think. 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.559 We've really dialed in the post-COVID. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:43.359 Our process. 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:43.920 Yeah. 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:51.759 Right now we have 11 staff members, and all of them except for one will have worked for us for a year by the time September. 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.759 And that's front of the house and back of the house. 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.400 That's everybody. 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:54.720 Wow. 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:56.960 Yep, that's production staff, it's front, back. 00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:57.759 No kidding. 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:03.759 Yeah, and one new team member who's been with us since March, who feels like she's been there for years, you know. 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.240 And mostly women, if I do say so. 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:06.880 Cool. 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:14.079 Uh yeah, Brendan and Joshua and Aaron are the the only boys, and then the rest of it is it's just all run by great women. 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:14.880 Awesome. 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:15.360 Yeah. 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.920 And Josh has been with you. 00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:18.960 Uh yes. 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:20.400 But Josh has been with you. 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:21.280 All ten. 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:22.400 All ten years. 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:23.920 He just celebrated his tenure anniversary. 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:25.039 Does he have a title? 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:26.960 He's our operations manager. 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:27.519 Yeah. 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:31.119 He primarily runs the kitchen at the cafe, but he's Oh really, okay. 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:32.800 He's he's not in the bakery production. 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:35.440 No, I'm the head of the production kitchen. 00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:41.519 I wasn't for a little while and then came back into that job and had this realization that was like, I love this. 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:43.519 Can he sub in over there? 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:44.400 Yeah. 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:46.320 Yeah, if he really needed to. 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:46.800 Okay. 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.440 He's a great crisis guy, so is Brendan. 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.440 They're both really good in crisis. 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:52.239 I'm not. 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:53.679 I'm a systems girl. 00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:58.400 So I like to I create the system and then I want everything to

occur as I created it. 00:34:58.559 --> 00:34:58.719 Yeah. 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:05.599 And so in the moment when there's crisis, my brain freezes for longer than theirs, and they're like ready to go and handle it. 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:06.079 Yeah. 00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:13.440 Which is Well, you gotta, you've gotta be, you cannot be crisis averse to operate a a food and beverage business. 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.079 No. 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.840 Um do you feel like you're in the restaurant business? 00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:19.199 I think so. 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:19.519 Yeah. 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:20.159 What an interest. 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:21.519 I've never been asked that question before. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:21.920 Yeah. 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:31.039 A bakery isn't a restaurant, but then the real way to get your products, you know, i is to to serve them. 00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.679 You know, you don't do any wholesaling. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:34.800 No, as you know. 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:36.159 Yes, only to you. 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:37.360 Only to Tim. 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.239 We might need to add it that out. 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:54.960 Um and I think that, you know, s the sustainability of your and you said it before, you you basically make decisions based on whether or not you would wish to to do that. 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:55.679 Yeah. 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.079 Um there's no job I won't do. 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.320 Yeah, there's no schedule I won't work. 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.599 Everybody washes dishes, everybody cleans toilets. 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:04.320 It's yeah. 00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:09.519 Our structure is unique compared to what the food service tends to look like, yeah. 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:10.960 Or food service culture. 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:12.880 And that works. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:13.840 It does. 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.599 People stick around when things work for them and their and their families. 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:32.320 And that's that's you know, a good stepping point there because to be in this business and to have a family is difficult. 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.360 You know, it's not always easy to balance that stuff. 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:42.159 You take um significant breaks from from the bakery. 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:43.840 Not just you though. 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:44.880 You shut it down. 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:45.519 Yeah. 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:46.639 Yep. 00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.079 And you know, there's this mentality of like you can't do it. 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:57.679 You know, you you can't shut down, you can't go dark because of of the the cost of competition. 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:09.360 Yeah, or or the costs of starting back up, or waste, or you know, there's a million different reasons in in the the ethos of running a business, right? 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:19.360 Um and you buck that concept and lean into, you know, some balance. 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:20.239 Yeah. 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:20.800 Yeah. 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:26.159 And to be fair, a lot of the breaks were spent doing some sort of like development or improvement. 00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.960 But that I both Brendan and I really enjoy that. 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.000 Like we did the big cafe renovation last August. 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.760 So at this time last year, I was taking a sledgehammer to cabinets. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:36.800 But that's fun. 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:37.360 Sure. 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.840 Um, but yeah, we've done it since we've opened. 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.639 We've always taken a winter break and a summer break. 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:49.199 I'm super transparent about it when we hire folks that they know that that's coming because it's not paid, unfortunately, for our staff. 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.880 We're not in the position to be able to do that. 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:51.679 Someday. 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:52.800 Um, yeah, I hope so. 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:53.679 We might get there. 00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.159 Yeah. 00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:00.159 And so we make sure that folks know like this is this is part of what you're signing on for if you're working with us. 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.960 Um, but it's I they all really enjoy it. 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.280 I never, yeah, there's never any qualms about it. 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:07.840 We don't lose staff because of it, as far as I know. 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.320 And I think they all get really pumped for it. 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:12.719 Yeah, I mean you schedule your vacations around it. 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:14.239 They work really hard. 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.400 Like we are working hard all the time. 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:16.960 Yeah. 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.199 And this summer in particular was so busy, which is an anomaly for us. 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:26.800 We're usually pretty quiet, and we were up 15% from last summer, which is great. 00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:28.000 It's such a good problem. 00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:34.239 But I think my staff look forward to this kind of downtime where they get to reset and rest a little bit through the summer. 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.360 And we haven't had that. 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.360 So they've just been working their butts off. 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:46.800 It's so wild because you and Brendan reached out to me as I talked about when before you opened and you wanted to pick my brain and ask about equipment and stuff. 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.840 And I'm sitting here thinking Do you remember you spent two hours with us? 00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:50.320 Really? 00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.440 Two and a half, maybe? 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:51.840 Yeah. 00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:53.360 Yeah, because I wasn't baking. 00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:54.639 I had people baking. 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.239 Um I don't know. 00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:08.880 I just

wanted to impart uh what little bit mostly I I if I if I recall, like I tried to tell you about the mistakes that I made or things that I I were glaring, you know. 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.239 I don't know how long I'd been in business by the time maybe a year or so. 00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:14.719 It was 2015 we would have seen each other. 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.320 Okay, so we'd probably been open, we'd been open less than a year because we opened it in in in 15. 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:20.639 Okay. 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.920 So I you know, some of those things were probably glaringly obvious. 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:37.599 Um but like I I I think that that is a really important part of being in business is like sharing, especially the mistakes, yeah. 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:39.840 So that somebody else can can try. 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.079 But I can't help but thinking like that. 00:39:42.159 --> 00:40:09.760 If I had known you, like if the tables had been turned, I might have been a little bit more successful because um, I mean, our operation of Utica Bread, while I look at it as a a a really great chapter in my rear view, um, it was for all intents and purposes a a pretty abject failure. 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:12.559 Um it didn't feel that way from the outside for what it's worth. 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.280 The product never feel no. 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:34.719 And I heard, I I don't know, is it on NPR or a podcast or something a couple days ago, a phrase that I guess I've heard before, but um I realized that that phrase could sum up a lot of the stress and anxiety I had around operating at Bank Korea. 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:40.400 It was don't let perfection get in the way of being great. 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:50.320 And that is that can summarize one that that basically summarizes all of how I operated Utica Bret. 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:50.639 Yeah. 00:40:50.800 --> 00:41:06.400 I had such a quest and I drove that team to never cut a corner and to to push and push, and there's a lot to be said for that, um, but um I did not have sustainability in in in mind. 00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:08.559 I had perfection in mind. 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:12.639 I wanted the perfect bakery, the perfect product. 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:24.719 Um and I'm not talking about cutting corners in like bench time of a of a bread or or you know number of laminations. 00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:30.639 Those, you know, can be it was more balance, you know. 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:39.199 Tried to be too much at all at once, tried to be open seven days, tried to be a wholesale in a retail bakery. 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:42.159 Um and the wholesale program was big right away. 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:48.400 Yeah, well, it had to be because we were just uh just hemorrhaging money. 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:49.039 Yeah. 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.880 So wholesale had to pick up and it did. 00:41:53.039 --> 00:42:01.679 I built the wholesale program out, you know, I became like the wholesale manager and driving that, and then you know, I handed that off to some talented people. 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.239 And it's just uh were you involved at the restaurant at the same time? 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:10.400 Well, thankfully I had some really strong managers there, so I was able to step away. 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:10.880 Okay. 00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.519 Um, but I still was involved in the restaurant day to day. 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.400 It was, you know, don't let perfection get in the way of being great. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:21.039 Yeah. 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:26.000 Um and I'm gonna take that with me everywhere I go. 00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:32.559 And you don't need to hear it because you already um have a balance that I'm a big fan of. 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:53.760 And I think that that mentality of how you operate the bake schedule, the business, the team, um that is reflected in in every croissant or every you know, loaf of sourdough or every rosemary bagel. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:01.360 I I believe that, you know, proper rest, proper time for for reflection, not just you but your team. 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:05.599 Well, do you remember what you did say to me that day that I've quoted you on a couple of times? 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:06.480 Ron Ron. 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:11.280 Did I say Did I say, do you know, do you know how to make a small fortune in the restaurant industry? 00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:15.360 Because I usually do that with a No, you told me to put everything Do you? 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.440 Do you know how to make a small fortune in the restaurant industry? 00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:19.599 You start with a large one. 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:21.519 What did I tell you that day? 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:30.639 You told me to put everything on wheels, which at the time and now over ten years, I've extrapolated to be metaphorical, too. 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.599 Like, don't be so stuck in I think that's part of the success of our team to be. 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.599 Because I was talking about equipment. 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.599 You were talking literally, like put everything on wheels, which I have done ever since you said that. 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:43.519 And I've learned my lesson when I haven't. 00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:44.880 Yeah, you've got to keep things clean. 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:45.599 Everything on wheels. 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:47.599 That flour is everywhere. 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:51.440 But it's never gonna, you're never gonna want your kitchen to look exactly the same way. 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:52.239 That's how I took it. 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:53.199 It was like we're gonna constantly. 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:57.440 Yeah, it's not gonna work right the first time. 00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.760 And so I have extracted. 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:05.440 That over 10 years to be more metaphorical, that like things might not always work right the first time.

00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:11.360 Or you have to be willing to change and shift and like hear another perspective. 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:19.280 Because I think in the first few years of running flower and salt, I was so I was just like pedal to the metal all the time. 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:20.480 I didn't have enough help. 00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:28.639 I was so concerned about payroll that I was often like sending people home and just like cry mopping while I was closing down. 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:30.480 Uh and I had no time. 00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:33.840 That's great. 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:34.880 That's a band name. 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:36.559 Great band name, sob mop. 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:44.239 Um yeah, I was just like I had no time to think about the fact that I had this whole team around me who could have been helping me. 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:49.199 I just knew to do it one way, and that was the only way I knew, and I had no time to think about any other way. 00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:49.599 Right. 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.280 And so that is how I've thought about your what is an adage to me now. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.880 Put everything on wheels, including your mind and your ego. 00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:57.599 Totally. 00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:04.880 Well, I am humbled to think that that, you know, advice about equipment. 00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:06.719 Oh, it's that I see it. 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:13.440 And I see your um I see your your ability to keep things on wheels. 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:17.760 Have you heard about Grow Brewing Company? 00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:19.840 They brew some really special beers. 00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:20.800 Get this. 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:23.840 They release four new beers every month. 00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:30.159 It's originally a nomadic brewery concept, but they now have a super chill tasting room in New Hartford. 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.199 They've got a lot of music every Friday and Saturday. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:34.079 Check them out. 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.679 Facebook, Instagram, Grow BrewingCode.com. 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.920 That's pretty special. 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:50.079 You know, that that you were able to s to read between the lines and uh I mean, you're just doing things right. 00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:59.440 You you focus on the quality, you focus on your team, your your your marketing, or I suppose lack thereof, um, right? 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.480 Uh you know, what's your marketing budget? 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:03.440 It's me. 00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:03.920 Yeah. 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.199 Twenty dollars. 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:05.679 I don't know. 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:06.639 What should I pay me? 00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:07.360 What do you think? 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:07.519 Yeah. 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:08.159 What should I get? 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:09.440 What special thing should I get? 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:29.199 Um but your your marketing is is pretty much limited to to what you control on your own via social media and the the apps or or hardware software that you use to communicate with people. 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.079 Yeah. 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:31.119 Yeah. 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:38.079 I think the people who follow us are people we're lucky in that I think the people following us are the people who want to know what we're up to. 00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:38.480 Yeah. 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:47.199 We don't have like inorganic or um we don't have inorganic followers or people who don't care what we're doing. 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.719 And we're lucky that people care to hear about what we're doing. 00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:53.760 And so that feeds itself, right? 00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:57.760 Like if you have people who care about the content that you're making, you make content and they watch it. 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:09.599 And so you keep making content and they keep enjoying your Yeah, it's just I get um validated on the street frequently by my tiny little village where they'll be like, I saw that video that you made, and I'm like, You did? 00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:10.400 That's so weird. 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:11.599 Please don't talk to me about it. 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:31.360 But I mean a lot of your videos aren't even well, I don't know say if I'd say a lot, but I uh I'm seeing more of your content that is is a little more philosophical and a little less look at this frostish Danish, you know. 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:32.000 Yeah. 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:37.840 And that's part of what we're talking about, like the balance of it all, right? 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:41.199 I think people like to know that you're human too. 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.639 I mean, you don't need to like post yourself sob mopping. 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:52.239 Right, because there's that I you in in social media you've we've seen those businesses that like air a little too much of the laundry out. 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:52.719 Right. 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.039 Um that can be a real turn off. 00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:56.000 Yes. 00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.199 Um so Which it is, I will say personally for me. 00:47:59.280 --> 00:47:59.920 It is for me. 00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:00.320 Yeah. 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:01.440 We've all seen that. 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:07.519 Yeah, you know, where where owner, you know, and probably they're right, you know. 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:15.199 In in a lot of cases, the the the sentiment that they're voicing is is is real and true, but you gotta be careful. 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:15.599 Yeah. 00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.000 You gotta go out for a glass of wine with a buddy, maybe. 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:21.519 Yeah, get off get off Instagram and just yeah, call your friend. 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:24.159 Go into go into the walk-in screen. 00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:24.960 Yeah. 00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:25.519 Yeah. 00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.039 No, do you have did you ever say that?

00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:28.320 No walking in the crying. 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.000 That's our crazy. 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.000 There's no crying in the bakery. 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:39.039 Um actually that's awesome. 00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:48.960 And you said something uh in one of your posts on basically like you had like a a you have an ethos, uh, a mantra. 00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.039 You know, like you don't raise your voice. 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:52.400 Like there's no yelling. 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:53.679 No, no yelling. 00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.199 No one's allowed to yell. 00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:56.480 Yeah, no. 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:12.400 I Why I wish that I could say in my career that I've never completely lost my cool and I've never yelled in a restaurant or bakery. 00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:12.880 Yeah. 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.559 And that would be a bolt-faced lie. 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:18.880 That's right, we're not perfect. 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:30.320 But I do feel myself, you know, aging in ways that, you know, I just understand the the energy that that um that sort of mentality or that sort of management. 00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:37.039 Um I think there's times w being passionate and being stern are very important. 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:39.920 But straight up yelling is just not necessarily. 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:41.519 It doesn't get anybody anywhere. 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:42.239 Yeah. 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:53.840 Well, I kudos to you for you know seeing that, being open about it, talking about it as part of your I mean it is marketing. 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:54.639 Yeah. 00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:55.519 Oh yeah. 00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:01.039 But it's not like this contrived uh marketing scheme. 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.800 It's really just you talking about the day-to-day of things, you know. 00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.400 And I think people like that. 00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.320 I think they like to have even just a tiny little peek behind the curtain. 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:13.199 Yeah, see how the the sausage is made, so to speak. 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.920 And I like to who did I just say this about? 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:21.199 Oh, um Leah and Jansen and Steph over at they just opened Cleo in Hamilton. 00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:22.480 I've already been three times. 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.679 They've been open for less than a month. 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.760 They have yeah, they've had Nola's for twenty years. 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:27.280 At NOLA's in Clinton. 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.559 Yeah, I know I mean legends. 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:31.199 Yeah. 00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:33.440 Well, they're such good people. 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:39.920 I took my daughter, who really is a pretty picky eater, eats like berries and cheese. 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:40.320 Okay. 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:41.519 And that's kind of the end of it. 00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:42.639 And then bread with butter. 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:43.679 That's her whole diet. 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.079 Yeah. 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:45.760 I can't get her to try anything new. 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:49.920 And for someone who is constantly cooking and experimenting, it's deeply depressing for me. 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:55.679 And I hope the day comes soon that she starts putting some of this food that I make for her into her mouth. 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.079 Um, but I took her to Cleo. 00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:04.079 They were having like a little kind of soft opening before they officially opened, and Brendan couldn't come. 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.320 And I thought, okay, I'll take Sloane. 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:07.280 Like, let's see. 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:15.039 And while we were there, she tried caramelized grapes, halloumi, um, a Sicilian like tomato bread that they're making. 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:15.679 Oh, yes. 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.880 And then they scrape the the tomato on the bread kind of. 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:19.920 I think so. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:20.320 Yeah. 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.159 It yeah, it's it felt that way. 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:28.079 Um and then if we had strawberries and Nutella for dessert, which is like our dessert at home. 00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:29.760 That really clinched the whole thing. 00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:32.719 But I thought, wow, I can't believe you're trying all of these foods. 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:41.920 And it felt to me like Leah and everybody there had created this space that just communicated something to my five and a half year old. 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:43.039 Like she got the message. 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:44.960 Somebody's preparing this for you. 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.119 Yeah, there are good, this is a good place. 00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:48.239 There are good people here. 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.280 There's something about the energy here that just has me locked in. 00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:51.920 Yeah. 00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.960 It was She might not have liked everything, but maybe she tried it. 00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:56.159 She did no, she didn't. 00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:58.480 Well, she did like it, but she did try everything. 00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:00.239 And that was so abnormal for her. 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.480 I thought there's something else mystical going on here. 00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:16.559 And it's just I mean, Nola's I haven't been to Clio yet, but you know, good operators understand that the the vibe um is important and flour and salt has that vibe. 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:23.440 And and you know, you you had a um uh another business in there, mom's Martha's on Maine. 00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:24.639 Martha's on Madison. 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:25.039 Yep. 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:32.559 Um that I was a huge fan of, and you closed it not because it wasn't busy, right? 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:33.039 Yeah. 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:35.840 Might maybe even might have been a little profitable.

00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:36.559 It was. 00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:38.320 Yeah, we were just tired. 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:39.440 Yeah. 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:42.639 So you took a a a profitable business. 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.000 How many years did you operate it? 00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:44.559 Four. 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:45.280 Four years. 00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:45.519 Yeah. 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:49.360 It was on its way to, you know, holding its own, right? 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:49.760 Yeah. 00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.480 Yeah, for sure. 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.239 Certainly had a great following. 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:57.920 I'd be interested to see how it would be feeling now given the culture around drinking. 00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:58.239 Yeah. 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:01.599 That is really shifting, like in a very meaningful way. 00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:07.519 Um, and so it felt to me and Brendan, once that started to happen, it felt like the right time to make the call. 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.719 But yeah, I'm I'm the head of the production kitchen at Maple. 00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:12.239 Brendan was running mom's. 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:14.320 We were two ships all the time. 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.639 Our shifts were completely opposite of each other. 00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:19.119 We just never saw each other and it stunk. 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:20.239 It's not worth it. 00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:20.719 No. 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:32.000 Well, I applaud you uh again uh for the umpteenth time for having the the the vision to know when it was, you know, time to quit. 00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:32.480 Yeah. 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:40.079 Um and I I have had that vision and I've done that in a couple of different places, and it feels really good to, you know. 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:49.920 And people will tell you how much they miss it, you know, and and uh it that's nice to hear, but nobody sees behind the curtain. 00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:50.320 Right. 00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:52.079 You know, except for what we show them. 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:52.800 Yeah. 00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:54.800 Um and it's a tough business. 00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:59.519 And I I applaud you for for having a concept that you were smart enough to shut down. 00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:12.480 But you brought pieces of mom's into flour and salt because you uh you one thing that I I've only been to one, but I'm I'm hankering for more of these after hours. 00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:13.440 You have a liquor license. 00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.079 We do. 00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:14.639 Yes. 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:15.920 So we got a liquor license. 00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:17.199 We have the ability to pour. 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.440 We are pouring beer, wine, cider. 00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.000 Uh we're doing mimosas and bloody Marys. 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:23.360 On the regular? 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:26.000 Mimosas and Bloody Marys we'll start doing on the weekend. 00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:26.480 Okay. 00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:28.320 And then yeah, we can pour on the regular. 00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:30.000 Oh, I didn't really help until two. 00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.000 I thought it was just so but I can come in in the afternoon and and get a beer. 00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:34.320 Yeah. 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:34.719 Cool. 00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:35.519 I didn't realize that. 00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:39.760 I thought you were only using the liquor license for the after hours. 00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.719 We have pretty much only been using it for the after hours. 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:46.400 We're doing a slow drop um for it, you know. 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:48.639 I just want our staff to feel super comfortable. 00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:52.400 I've effectively added in a new skill set for them. 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:56.079 And not so much like being a barista is like being a bartender. 00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.480 Arguably sometimes more complicated being a barista. 00:54:59.119 --> 00:54:59.519 Yeah. 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:08.880 Um, but I think there's I just want them to feel safe and comfortable about IDing people and serving safely and uh responsibly. 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:11.760 So we're we're very slowly dipping our toe. 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:17.519 No matter what, when you introduce alcohol into a business, it changes things. 00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:18.000 Yeah. 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:21.519 Hopefully for the better. 00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:21.920 Yeah. 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:23.440 But we're in a college town. 00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:23.920 Totally. 00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:24.400 Yeah. 00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:25.119 Yeah. 00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:25.840 Yep. 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:26.159 Yeah. 00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:32.079 Um, but I love those that after hour concept um where you you're you're putting some seeds. 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.920 And then I see Tim through the kitchen window, and I'm like, oh my god, okay, Tim is here. 00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:41.280 God, I loved it. 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:42.800 I had so much fun at that. 00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:43.360 Good. 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:45.920 Um, I think that it's a great concept. 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:50.159 And and you will figure out how to make those sustainable too. 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.199 You will figure out how to make those sustainable for me. 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:55.039 I'm gonna do them whenever I want, Tim. 00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:57.039 Yeah, whenever I want. 00:55:57.199 --> 00:55:59.920 It scratches such a nice creative itch. 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:06.320 Um, like I there are parts of me that wish I had come to ask you if I could just like work on your line for six months. 00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:10.960 That's my greatest regret of this whole thing is that I never worked for anybody else. 00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:18.159 If I could rewind the clock and do one thing, I would go work in ten different kitchens, like all over the country. 00:56:18.400 -->

00:56:19.519 I would love to do that. 00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:21.039 So that that gives me this. 00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:22.719 You might have talked yourself out of it. 00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:23.440 Yeah. 00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:24.239 Yeah, sure. 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:26.400 I'm not doing this myself. 00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:30.639 I have had a few people who have worked for me and said, I'm all I'm all set. 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:31.199 Yeah. 00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:32.000 Yeah. 00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:36.480 What uh but that's a service that you've done for those people too. 00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:37.280 Right? 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:37.920 Yeah, sure. 00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:45.840 You know, uh someone who was thinking that they might like to be an entrepreneur or owning their own bakery or or just a small business. 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.920 Um and then they see what what it takes. 00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:54.159 And and uh so you've given you've done something for them too, you know. 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:59.360 Um save them years of financial and emotional you know, hard. 00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:00.880 Turmoil, yeah. 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.119 Um but yeah, the after hours are fun. 00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:04.639 But glad you've been there. 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:29.760 What I was talking about in the is the like that vibe, you know, like it matters, you know, the cleanliness of the bathroom, the volume of the music, the comfortability of the seats, the things to look at around you, um those things are not lost in in how you guys operate the bakery and the cafe. 00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:33.039 And you know, people recognize those. 00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:34.400 Not everybody. 00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:43.760 I think there's a lot of people who who miss those intricacies, but um I notice them and you know, like I want cool things to look at. 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:58.079 Yeah, I want things to listen to, and it attracts people of uh uh sometimes a similar mindset, so that the crowd is good and and uh I've never ever been in flour and salt. 00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:12.480 Not the old one, not the new one, not in after hours, and I don't get to Hamilton as often as I like, but every time I'm in there, maybe it's because I it's a treat for me, but you know, it's vibrating at a at a very pleasant level. 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:13.119 Thanks. 00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:24.639 You know, from customer service to quality of beverages, and then these ridiculous pastries, and uh I had I I this is how you know it's good. 00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:27.840 Like I've been thinking about this rhubarb rhubarb Danish. 00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:29.599 I would have brought you one if we were open. 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.519 I've been thinking about this rhubarb, but I actually, you know, that's what it is. 00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:35.599 It's like that stays with you. 00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:42.480 And if I lived in Hamilton, I don't know if it would if it would I'm sure it would. 00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:53.440 I'd be there a lot, but I don't know if it would ring as as true to me as as it is a little bit of a trip for me, about a half hour, you know, 25 minutes. 00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.079 So um, but I'm a huge fan of what you do. 00:58:56.159 --> 00:59:12.559 I'm a huge fan of your philosophy on on management and what uh what kind of things are in your your sights for the next six months or a year? 00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:16.480 I mean anything that you're you're dying to try other than the canalet? 00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:18.800 Um panetone. 00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:19.760 Have you ever made it? 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:26.880 Oh yeah, we did it we did a huge um huge panettone um holiday thing. 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:28.559 And I would hook you up with Steve. 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:36.480 Um I mean we hung those things upside down and they got special skewers and molds and really a remarkable. 00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:42.719 You've got to have citrone and I didn't even know what citrone was. 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.559 It's a it's a citrus fruit. 00:59:44.719 --> 00:59:44.960 Yeah. 00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:49.039 That's really only good for its pith or for its its peel. 00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:49.679 Yeah, it's crazy. 00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:52.400 Candied citrone and all these things, panettone. 00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:53.199 So that's on my list. 00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:54.400 You heard it here a flop. 00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:55.840 Yeah, I know now I have to do it. 00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:57.760 Maybe this holiday season. 00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:58.960 Just pre-order. 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:01.920 Yeah, you're the queen of taking pre-orders, you know? 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:03.679 Yeah, I gotta figure it out first though. 01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:04.960 And I gotta start now. 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:10.559 That's the thing about being a pastry chef, I feel like, is everything's so holiday directed. 01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.519 Yeah, like I'm thinking about Thanksgiving right now. 01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:13.760 Yeah. 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:14.559 You better be. 01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:15.039 Yep. 01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:18.320 Um, and like Valentine's Day will hit in just a couple of months for me. 01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:29.519 Well, because you know, from a dollars and cents standpoint, I mean, if you are prepared and if you uh can properly execute those, because of the volume is big. 01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:33.199 Yeah, you know, you can really leverage do as much as you can do. 01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:35.199 I mean, w to a certain extent. 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:35.679 Yeah. 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.320 But you gotta start making those pie shells, right? 01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.280 I mean, to think that you made all those pie shells in one situation. 01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:44.559 And all people be like, have you been rolling all week? 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:46.079 I'm like, I've been rolling all year. 01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:46.480

Yeah. 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:48.400 They've been in the freezer for months. 01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:48.880 Yeah. 01:00:49.199 --> 01:01:00.239 Um and that but those type of of well, the five piece, proper preparation prevents poor performance. 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:01.119 Yeah. 01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:05.679 And that is like so key in in a in a bakery, is it not? 01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:06.320 Yeah. 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:08.719 You've got to be thinking about Thanksgiving. 01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:16.960 And then I mean, if you haven't thought about Christmas before that, like you'll you'll get done with Thanksgiving and you should have already had the order. 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:18.159 Yeah, whiplash. 01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:19.519 Whiplash every year. 01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:19.840 Yeah. 01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:26.320 It's a it's a you know, in a bakery, November and December are something. 01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:26.639 Yeah. 01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:28.480 You know, you really have to be on your toes. 01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:31.039 And everyone around you is like, it's Christmas time. 01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:31.599 Yeah. 01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:32.880 Aren't you so excited? 01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.159 It's the holiday season. 01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:36.480 Like, got a rolling pin stuck in my hair. 01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:37.679 Right, exactly. 01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:44.400 But I think I I see how you I see how you gear um the the production. 01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:49.920 You know, you you I don't think it's unreasonable to say you demand a pre-order. 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.639 You demand that people follow the structure that you've set up. 01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:55.360 Yeah. 01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:59.280 And and there's a bunch of volume in front of you. 01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:05.519 And if you don't put some guardrails on you, on it, it will eat you alive. 01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:05.920 Yeah. 01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:06.480 Right? 01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:06.880 Yeah. 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:08.159 So panotone. 01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:08.880 Yeah. 01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.880 They are a beautiful, such a rich dough. 01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:11.840 Oh, yeah, there's a few. 01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:14.559 It's like a it's like richer than brioche. 01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:16.079 I love a challenge. 01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:19.599 When people ask me, I get asked all the time, like I'm sure you do too. 01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:20.880 What's your favorite dish to cook? 01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:21.920 Do you get asked that constantly? 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.079 Yeah, you could never say one thing. 01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:24.559 Right. 01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:26.880 Well, my answer is that I just love anything new. 01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:27.280 Sure. 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:28.320 I love a challenge. 01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:39.440 I love to just think about a familiar ingredient, something maybe I use in everything, but now I'm using it in a new way, and I just get to learn

something else about it by way of this new product. 01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:39.920 Sure. 01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:40.320 Yeah. 01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:41.519 So just anything new. 01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:54.639 Well, and that's that is that, you know, constantly recreating or constantly challenging yourself and learning and and always, you know, being aware that there's stuff you can learn, right? 01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:56.559 I think that's important. 01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:06.719 And that shows in we I think before we we before we're on camera, we talked about places that don't change things up. 01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:09.280 And that may or may not work. 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:10.719 You know, a diner or something. 01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:14.400 There's places where being static can can make a lot of sense. 01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:26.960 Um but you you talked about how you you have a need to to create and and change things up and not have it be one thing all the time. 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.000 I think it's in response to the customers sometimes too. 01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:34.559 Like right now, we are morphing our menu, we're adding a bunch of new stuff. 01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:38.000 Part of that is thanks to the Italian sandwich after hours. 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:47.519 We saw a couple things do really well, and we thought like these were so easy to put together with such a high delivery, right? 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:51.280 Like they delivered well back to us as far as profit and prep. 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:52.639 And so let's put that on. 01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:58.960 And I think everyone already knows us as a breakfast restaurant, so we're trying to lean more towards lunch on this new menu. 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:10.800 So it's not even just a response to like wanting to be more creative or feeling bored of what we already serve, but rather auditing our sales for the last six to 12 months and saying, okay, these two sandwiches really don't do well. 01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:14.880 Like Joshua was is great in this way as an ops manager. 01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:25.599 He will audit the um like how much what percentage of my prep work are the ingredients that I need for these sandwiches versus what percentage are they of sales? 01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:30.719 And so two of our sandwiches were 1% of sales, but they're 70% of our prep work. 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:31.199 Wow. 01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:31.920 Why? 01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:32.480 Yeah. 01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:33.920 And so let's cut those. 01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:35.519 We feel passionately about them. 01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:45.840 We love what's on them, but it's sure it's usually stuff that has something that's like a little left of center, like Muhammara that people just don't read well on a menu at a breakfast cafe. 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:49.039 Um, so yeah, that's part of why we do it. 01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:50.639 We just listen to customer behavior. 01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:51.039 Sure. 01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:53.599 We've always pivoted because of customer behavior. 01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:54.880 And seasonality. 01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:55.280 Yeah. 01:04:55.519 --> 01:05:00.159 I mean, you pay a lot of attention to to seasonality, which to me is really important. 01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:12.320 Um I I s it it always raises a flag to me when when you know there's there's strawberries in them in the winter time or something. 01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:17.760 And we live in a you know, a global society, so it's gonna be like that. 01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:21.840 And a lot of places don't look at it that way, but I love the the changing the seasons. 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:26.960 And thankfully we still live in a place where we have for the most part four seasons. 01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:27.760 Yep. 01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:32.880 I like to see that reflected in in a bakery, a restaurant. 01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:33.519 Yeah. 01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.480 Did you you must have known Dana from Regional Access. 01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:37.360 Yeah. 01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:43.519 He said something to me 10 years ago that we've always remembered, and I like rasm about it now when he delivers rhubarb. 01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:47.760 I have a rhubarb plant in my backyard, but I'm like just too lazy to harvest it. 01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:48.960 I just don't want to do it. 01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:51.199 I want it, but I don't want to harvest it. 01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:51.440 Yeah. 01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:53.440 So we get rhubarb from them. 01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:59.760 And when he brought it the very first year, he said, We always make this joke that if anybody orders rhubarb, they must not have any friends. 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:02.639 And I didn't even know him yet. 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:05.119 And I thought, all right, sorry, I won't order it again. 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:07.039 Now I get it annually. 01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:08.719 Like, thanks for chopping my rhubarb. 01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:09.599 Oh, that's funny. 01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:10.400 Yeah. 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:11.440 Yeah. 01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:16.719 Well, I mean, I don't blame you for, you know, people are like, oh, you must have a really nice garden. 01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:18.000 No, I don't have a garden. 01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:18.559 Yeah. 01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:21.679 I I like other people do that. 01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:22.239 Right. 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.760 Um and do that well, much better than I could ever do. 01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:33.679 And for what little bit of of free time, you know, I I have, I I just want to spend it in different ways. 01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:35.119 I don't want to toil in the garden. 01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.559 I I'm people like, oh, you go out foraging for mushrooms. 01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:40.559 No, I have I have friends that I rely on. 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:40.880 Yeah. 01:06:41.119 --> 01:06:41.920 I've bad people. 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:42.159 Yeah. 01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:44.480 And they're they're really good. 01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:49.599 And my job is to translate that to the the finished product. 01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:50.079 Yeah. 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:51.599 Sourcing. 01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.760 I I want to source. 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.280 I mean uh it's already just not enough time in the day. 01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:07.119 You know, I want to source from people and and have a relationship, whether it's a forager or a baker or a uh a cheesemaker or winemaker or whatever. 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:14.000 And and that's the the concept of hospitality is like putting all these things together into a product. 01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:18.000 And it's the same for for a bakery or a cafe, you know. 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:20.559 I mean you have to you're you're the finish line. 01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:24.239 You're putting the final product on the on the plate, so to speak. 01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:25.199 Yeah. 01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:30.239 Um well I feel like we could go on and on and on. 01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:36.960 Um but uh I think it's probably a great place to wrap up, and I'm I am so grateful for your time. 01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:49.360 And uh beyond that, I'm so grateful for your business model and and that it's there for you know the community of Hamilton and the greater Central New York Mohawk Valley area. 01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:50.239 I'm very grateful. 01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:51.760 I'm a big, big fan. 01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:52.400 Thank you. 01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:54.880 So thanks for coming on the hospitalitarian. 01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:55.920 Thanks for having me. 01:07:56.239 --> 01:08:03.280 Um as we wrap up here, I want to remind you to uh you know like and subscribe and all that stuff. 01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:13.440 Um especially subscribe to uh the mailing list for uh Hardaman Hospitality because someday it's gonna matter more than than it does now. 01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:18.560 That's the way I want to communicate with people is is uh via my email list. 01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:22.880 So thanks for joining us uh on the the hospitalitarian. 01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:29.920 Uh I'm Tim Hardiman, my my friend Bertie O'Connor from Flower and Salt, and we'll see you again soon. 01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:38.960 While the Hospitalitarian podcast is rooted in the Mohawk Valley, we celebrate the whole of hospitality in the umpire state. 01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:45.680 The hospitalitarian is recorded at MVCC's Thincubator and produced by Ryan Miller at Rust Belt Studios in Utica. 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:47.920 Theme music by Nathua Robb.