התמלול המלא של Nerd Sesh - Top 10 Centers

being more defensively oriented, or you bring legitimate floor spacing for some of those guys, those skill sets converge, and I just think I think so Bonis is a good big man. But like when I think about really high ceiling raising, high impact winning players, I just think so Bonis puts a really hard cap on how great your defense can be. I think Sabonis is a really good big man, but I just think there's guys and archetypes that are a little more valuable, and I prefer those guys. So Sabonis is a really good big man, but he's number eleven for me. 00:03:35 Speaker 4: This is surprising, I would say, but like you said, it's not that surprising. When you're out on a guy logan, you are out on him, and I can respect that. I do think sometimes you take it a little bit far. I'm interested who is in your ten spot because I think the gap between seven and ten on this list is really really slim. I am definitely not the biggest the bonus guy because of some as his limitations, but I do think that he is clear of everybody who I left off my list. However, the one dude who I'm most interested in where you have him, who was probably my toughest cut, was Alpareen Shngun, who has a lot of similarities to Domos, just in terms of some of the flaws of the archetype. Right being these below average defensive bigs, I do think that although Shenggun is the more skilled post scorer of the two, Sabonis is the more valuable offensive player because he is significantly more efficient. Both of these dudes are unproven as jump shooters, but Sabonis is more efficient, more capable there at this stage in his career. And then I do think there is a different level of maturity with him in terms of his consistency as a playmaker, being just a complete fulcrum of an offense. Shannggun is a incredibly flashy passer. He's a very gifted passer, but I do think you get more consistent playmaking value with Domasi. He is the more overwhelmingly elite rebounder. So that's why when we're comparing the two in that archetype, I favor Sabonis. The efficiency for sheng Gun does need to improve a good bit for me to really buy in on him as a dude who it's like he can be a star, a key piece on a really good basketball team. 00:05:19 Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. I don't have Sangoon on my list either, So there's somebody that I guess is lower than these guys that's gonna crack my list. 00:05:25 Speaker 4: Uh, I'm intrigued. 00:05:29 Speaker 1: I'm I'm yeah, I'm very very intrigued with this. I like Sengoon a lot too, very similar archetypes, but I completely agree with you. I think there's a rebounding gap. I think there's a, like you said, a strength and physicality and maturity gap that I just prefer with Sabonis, and he's just a little bit more polished at this point. I'm not out on Sengoon though. I think that, uh, there's more that he can tap. 00:05:50 Speaker 4: Into a very talented basketball player. 00:05:53 Speaker 1: Very and I think there's a there's even more room for growth with Sengoon. 00:05:58 Speaker 4: Okay, So who is in that ten spot for you? Logan? 00:06:01 Speaker 1: In my ten spot, I'm gonna assume you left him off the list. I have Jared Allen here. That's the guy who I thought you would have interesting. 00:06:07 Speaker 4: Okay. 00:06:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it goes back to the archetypal thing that I just mentioned with Sabonis. Why I have Allen over him. Give me the higher impact rim protector and the play finisher instead of the skilled big. I just prefer his skill set a little more. This past season, Allen put up seventeen points, eleven boards, and three assists on sixty six percent through shooting, with one point one blocks per game. He held players seven point five percent of their average field goal percentage inside six feet. That was the thirteenth best mark in the NBA minimum six defensive field goal attempts per game. And Jared Allen has a very simple game. 00:06:42 Speaker 4: Man. 00:06:43 Speaker 1: He's gonna finish stuff around the rim at a really high level. He's not going to take a ton of bad shots. He's gonna rebound pretty well, and he's gonna protect the hell out of the rim. There's not a ton of skill here with Jared Allen's game. It's a fundamental limitter of his game. I think he's gotten a little better as a playmaker and a passer to make over the past couple years. It's not a massive, massive improvement, but it's marginal. He's not super skilled. He's got a very simple game. He's gonna protect the rim at a high level. He's gonna finish lobs, he's gonna finish attempts around the rim at a really high level, and it's not gonna make too many mistakes. I just prefer defensive minded bigs compared to those really skilled guys. I think it's just more valuable having a guy that can anchor your defense, that can legitimately take you up a level and protect the rim. Again, I think Sabonis has gotten better there. I would still consider him a little bit of a liability on the interior considering his vertical limitations. Alan just doesn't have those vertical limitations, and that's why I prefer his skill set. So Alan's interesting in the sense that I think that you can probably find serviceable, serviceable bigs that do his job at a you know, seventy to eighty percent level. I think it's probably harder to find a guy with Sabonis' skill set. But like I say, I prefer that rim protector and rim runner role just a little bit more than a guy like sabonass archetype. 00:08:00 Speaker 4: So this kind of harkens back to a debate that we have had several times over throughout these position groups, which is valuing a guy who can fill a role at a high level but is probably going to be your fourth best player if you want to be a really good team, versus a guy who is gonna have the ability to produce with the volume of a star, but has some clear flaws when it comes to that guy being like one of the top two guys on a really good team, and then how can he adjust to a lower usage role, How can he do

the winning things on the margin not as well as the dude who is already embracing a role who has that simple, clear cut two way impact. And what's funny is I feel like generally I lean on the side of the winning role player more than the average person. But then I feel like sometimes you take it really far around, like Demonta Sebonas versus Jared Allen, Like there's just a complete different level of ability as a basketball player. There are dudes absolutely who are just really high level defenders and rim finishers, vertical spacing bigs who I would really consider up against him ont To Sabonis. I just don't think Alan is an exceptional enough version of it, and I do want to give him some props for areas in which he's improved. He has improved his feel as a playmaker. He has improved his touch as a non dunk finisher. He is a very good rim protector, and he is a guy who's capable of guarding in space. You see in that Orlando series. When he's out there, he can hang with a Palo Banco, a big wing like that who isn't just the quickest downhill. He can hang with a Franz Wagner. I wouldn't say that he is the most switchable big, but with those big wings, big forwards, he can hold his own. But yeah, I just think that there is a different level of transformative impact that Sabonis can have, and there's just too many dudes who I can find who will give me, as you say, seventy eighty percent of what Jared Allen does. He was my number twelve, so he was on my short list. He's just not a standout enough in this mold to be in my top ten. However, the guy who I do have in my ten spot is sort of the epitome of this role, and I really considered him higher. In fact, I considered him all the way up to number seven. I have Rudy Gobert here, though, and I go back and forth on Rudy man, I really do, because in a lot of ways, you can bank on him having an elite impact on the game in a way that you can't with Demonta Sabonis. And whether you think he's the Timberwolves second best player, whether you think he's their third best player, there's just no question they are not the basketball team that they are without Rudy Gobert. He is arguably the best defender on the planet. I would say the best pure interior defender on the planet still holds opposing players thirteen percent below their average inside of six feet when he is the defender. And the thing that we always hear him aligned about Rudy's defense is his ability to guard in space. Right. You've always heard people claim that he gets played off the floor in these playoff environments because he can't hang against five out teams, he can't switch. These things that just aren't true. He's a seventy ninth percentile isolation defender, a seventy seventh percentile post up defender when it comes to one on one defense. That's something that we also here maligned because Nikoojokic cooks him, and Niko Ajokic cooks everybody. And in fact, if you look at this playoff run, all of these stars who Gobert guarded except for

Luka and Jokic, and in that group, I am counting Katie Kyrie, Book, Jamal Murray and Bradley Beal maybe being a little generous with star there, but whatever high end offensive player, all of those guys win guarded by Gobert. Shot thirty two of eighty five combined, that's thirty seven percent. So he defended these highly skilled perimeter players very well on an island. You saw that throughout the Sun series, right. He was playing every coverage at a high level. He was switching, he was blitzing at times. The fact that he can't stop a Jokic post up up or a Luca step back three like that is not some condemnation of his defensive game. Those are unguardable shots, and he is not an exception to that. He's not the best big guarding in space. He's not Bam, he's not quite an AD, but he is good there, and he is dominant, dominant, dominant as an interior defender, and he can change complete basketball series. Now, I do want to give props to the totality of the Timberwolves defense, because you saw some incredible perimeter defense, some just lethal ball pressure that completely slowed down opposing offenses. You saw the great post defense of Karl Anthony Towns Oniko Jolkic, the aggressive doubling of all the dudes around Ruy Gobert, and you saw a dominant defensive performance in Game two against the Nuggets without Gobert on the floor. So I do want to make sure we give proper credit to the athleticism, the length, the all around dog of that Minnesota defense. But Gobart is the best and most important part of it. And there are other areas in which he brings clear positive value. He's a monstrous rebounder, he is an elite screener, and he has improved offensively. He was an eighty six percentile post score this year in terms of efficiency, and he's ramped up his volume there over the last couple of years. It's never going to be pretty, but the ability to draw a cross match and just to get that entry pass and maybe draw foul, maybe finish over a way smaller player like, he's gotten more comfortable at that over the years, and that does make a difference in his offensive game. The reason I have him this low, and again I am conflicted about it, because you can bank on that elite defensive impact and that is going to change games. Is just that there are extended stretches where he is brutal offensively, where he is a glaring liability, where you might as well be playing four on five, where ant will not give him the ball on the role because he's fumbling catches, because he's mismanaging his footwork because he's not making the proper reads as a short roller, because he can't finish with any sort of skill when he catches the ball outside of the restricted area, and that wasn't the case every single time that he touched it in this playoff run. I thought his short role passing was okay, but it was pretty brutal. And the ability to basically neglect go Bet as a roller is just really damaging and really limiting to this Minnesota offense. So when you have the potential to be that damaging to an offense, it's tougher for me to have you higher than this, no matter how great you are defensively, and he is one of the great players that we've seen on that end. 00:14:39 Speaker 1: No, I completely understand the argument here. I have Gobert two spots higher at number eight, and he really is polarizing. You know, he's kind of been the league's punching bag for some time now. Like a lot of people goof on him, and I don't blame him, like he's gangly, he's goofy, he's uncoordinated, he's I don't know. They don't like him because he's french Man. I don't know what people's beef as man. He is one of the greatest defenders in NBA history, though, and that is why I have him two spots higher. You mentioned the mark about holding players thirteen percent le other average inside six feet. That was the second best mark in all of the NBA. And he is finally, as you alluded to amplify by his supporting cast. I mean, for years he was just putting the jazzz defense on his back. I do understand why you would have him this low. By far, I mean, it's not even close. Rudy Gobert is the most offensively limited player on this list. He is a liability at times, and so I understand the argument, but it is that consistent baseline. He's been one of the league's best rim protectors for some years now. He is massive, he is monstrous, He is strong. He is an elite, elite rebounder, and I still really value that. But in comparison to everybody, everybody above him on this list, and even one guy that I have him below, excuse me, the one guy that I have below him in the ninth spot, it's not even close. I mean, Gobert is a in extreme liability, But I really do value highly that defense that he brings you, and I mean, you see it. I mean, you can still win a ton of games, you can still advance really far in the playoffs with those limitations, and you know, I mean you take Minnesota out of that, you take Gobert out of Minnesota, and I mean the defense drops off significantly. So I understand people clowning on Gobert. I understand the frustrations. I was having this conversation with one of my roommates. I don't understand how these guys are in the league for so long, Carson. They just do not develop any kind of offensive skill. Yeah, it's puzzling, but I'll take the bad with the good man. I mean, he is still one of the league's best interior rim protectors, one of the best rebounders, and like I said with Jared Allen, I really value that. Those are the two most valuable things to me at the center spot, defense, rim protection, rebounding. Those are three things. I said two, but rim protection and rebounding are two of the most important things in basketball, and Rudy Gobert does those things at a very very high level. 00:17:07 Speaker 4: He absolutely does, and it's tough for me to have him this low. It is sorry, margins are crazy. 00:17:12 Speaker 1: Small final point, I wanted to add on to that, the thing you were saying about Luca and

Jokic. I just want to expand upon that a little more. I mean, come on, guys like Yo kicch and Luca are the two best offensive players in basketball. I don't hold that against Rudy at all. Now, it is interesting to me, Carson, at the end of Rudy Gobert's career, I think it's gonna be really funny. We will probably have a ten to twenty minute compilation of this guy getting absolutely cooked. Yeah, it's rare in comparison to the other great defenders in NBA history. It's unique. Like, I don't think there's gonna be anybody with that kind of a low light defensive reel. But in those matchup specifically, I mean, everybody gets abused by those guys one on one. I don't hold that against Gobert at all. 00:17:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he does have a tendency to stumble like a baby deer on ice skates when it happens, and that's not good for the reputation. But as I said, look at what he did in that Sun's series Guarding in Space. Look at what he did against everybody other than Luca and Jolkic one on one. He did very very well on top of this dominant rim protection and interior defense. So he's in my tenth spot. Who is in your ninth spot? Logan? 00:18:18 Speaker 1: In my ninth spot is another guy that I considered. You talk about maybe having Gober up to seven. I thought maybe this guy could climb that high, and that's Miles Turner. I really value miles skill set. Do you not have him on your list at all? 00:18:31 Speaker 4: I do not have him on my list at all. 00:18:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, whoa irock with Miles Turner. 00:18:36 Speaker 2: Man. 00:18:38 Speaker 1: He's taken a step back in terms of rebounding and rim protection over the past couple of years. He's not as dominant as he once was. But again, I really value rim protection and floor spacing, and he does those things at a really high level. In these playoffs, seventeen point seven boards to assist on sixty four percent true shooting. He shot forty five percent from deep and forty five percent off the catch. Really unique skill set. He's a really good rim finisher and you know a guy who can throw oops too. Especially with a guy like Halliburton. He's got a really unique skill set and those three things that he does at a high level rim protection, shooting, rim finishing, it's really really valuable, and in comparison to a guy like Alan, to a guy like Sabonis, I think he's a better rim protector than Sabonis. I think he's probably a little bit worse of a rebounder and rim protector than Jared Allen. I average is more blocks per game, but I think Allen's a little bit more disruptive. But there's a massive gap in terms of, you know, shooting and skill set. And I think you saw in these playoffs man, that ability to pop at such a high level and to knock down all those shots. It's really unique and it's really really valuable in today's NBA. I think Turner's got a really really unique skill set that I value at a high level. Man, he does the he does some of the most valuable things at the center spot at a really high level. I wish he rebounded a little bit more, but I'm not gonna hold that against him. Man. He can shoot the hell out of the ball. He can protect the rim at a really high level. And I really value those things. Man, it's a unique skill set at this size. 00:20:08 Speaker 4: He just doesn't protect the rim at that high a level anymore. Like, I mean, he can rack up his block numbers, and even those aren't what they used to be. But Miles Turner is not a good defensive big. If you look at oppon it field goal percentage at the rim, he's only holding guys like four or five percent below their average for a center. That is a thoroughly average number. Because right, no matter what you're challenging the biggest player, like that number for the elite guys is ten plus percent. And he can't guard in space for shit. And he doesn't give the same effort on the defensive end of the floor that he used to. So I'm not gonna lie to you, Logan, this batshit crazy. Like I really like Miles Turner. I really like Miles Turner. He just had an amazing jump shooting season. He is one of, if not the best, pure picking pop bigs in basketball. But like that's the only thing he does at a really high level. He's ultimately not like a high end vertical space or he's not a high end defensive big. He brings you nothing in terms of playmaking. This is privilege, this is situation bias. I'm sorry having him above Demata Sabonis. Like these are both offensively oriented bigs, one of them is on a completely different level in terms of their ability to create for others, to impact team offense, to still score more more efficiently. Now, do I think the Miles Turner is a better puer score than Sabonis in a vacuum? Maybe slightly, But the playmaking gap is much much larger, and it's much larger than what you're seeing between the two of them. On the defensive end, Miles Turner gets to play with a pick and roll genius who was constantly hitting him into spots and creating advantages. Sabonis is fundamental to great team offense, So we must not have one of the same dudes on our lists. I'm just gonna ask it out right, are you considering Karl Anthony Town's a center, Brad? 00:22:02 Speaker 1: I completely forgot about Karl Anthony Towns bro. I completely forgot they got existed for real? Yeah, because things, No, I guess I just I should have put him on my Power Forwards list. Actually, so you know what, man, Sassy Kat's unfortunately gonna be omitted from all of my team. 00:22:18 Speaker 4: You're not putting him on your center list, You're not bumping off Jared Allen. 00:22:23 Speaker 1: I would consider him more of a four. I should have had him on my fours list. I just forgot about him. 00:22:27 Speaker 4: I mean that is fair because I have been trying to avoid having multiple dudes on the same team at the same position. But my god, Karl Anthony Towns and Rudy Gobert are both centers like they just are for twenty nine of the thirty teams, right, they would be

the center. It just happens to be here that Kat is sort of a four or five hybrid. But I'm still considering him a center, and he is on my list. Very surprising, Logan, very surprising. The Power Forward list, you shocked me. Centers list, you shocked me. I'm just gonna come out and say it. I don't like Miles Turner at nine. I don't like it. 00:23:04 Speaker 1: I'd probably bump Triple J off my Power Forwards list and insert Cat. 00:23:09 Speaker 4: That's what probably I mean. Come on, Cat's better than Triple J. Let's not kid ourselves. 00:23:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, I if I would make an audible I just think I mean he plays the four spot, but I get it. Yeah, I would. I would have Kat in my ten spot for Power Forwards. 00:23:22 Speaker 4: Okay, all right, the revision has been made. I don't know if Kat gets on the graphic. He doesn't get in the episode. Sorry pal. In my number nine spot, I have Chet Holngren Logan, And I think Chet has the potential to sky so much higher than this because when you talk about the traits that you look for and the ideal modern big. 00:23:43 Speaker 1: Go ahead, make Miles Turner case, make the money. 00:23:45 Speaker 4: Three things that stands out, it's not Miles Turner, because Miles Turner only has one of them, and it's the ability to shoot the basketball. It is the ability to protect the rim at a high level. It is the ability to finish around the rim as a role man. And if you want to get spicy, it's the ability to shoot the shit out of the ball, to be a floor spacing stretch five. Chet does all of those things at a very high level, and he brings a whole lot of juice on top of that. Like the ball handling that you get from him is so impressive. The playmaking that you get from him is so unique. He really does have that unicorn sort of skill set, and when he came out of the draft this was pre Wemby, but I said, this is the best prospect that we have seen since Anthony Davis, and I stand by that. On the defensive end, players in this postseason shot fifteen percent worse than normal versus chet at the rim. That was the best differential by any volume rim protector. And he led the playoffs in blocks per game and he made that oka see interior defense elite. In the regular season, that field goal percentage differential at the rim was over eleven, which was a top five mark. So he's an elite pre rim protector and he can really guard in space. That's always been his greatest strength as a prospect, just that sort of dominant defensive skill set. Offensively, though, he's also a freak talent. He was an eighty eighth percentile pick and roll creator this year Logan. Now, he's not doing that at high volume, but the ability to run inverted pick and roll, to shoot over the top of the defense, to make reads, finding screeners, it's freakish at that size to put the ball on the floor and drive and make a kickout pass like he is really exceptional in that respect. He's also a seventy eighth percentile isolation creator, ridiculous from your seven footer. He's a seventy eighth percentile role man. Is a massive lob target, huge catch radius, very fluid mover. Can also shoot the hell out of it as a popper. This is a guy who you can consistently find as a trailer from deep in transition, Like there is just so much vertical spacing, floor spacing, ball handling and passing from your center. It's ridiculous. And this is why I have him above Rudy Gobert. These are both elite defensive centers. Gobert is the better defensive center at this stage because he is first of all, significantly better on the glass that is a limitation of Chets, and he is better built for those super physical playoff environments. Chets still can defend in the post because even though he is skinny as can be, he is so long. His timing is so good. I mean, I would argue he as the best pure timing of any shot blocker in basketball right now. And he's got ridiculous length to compliment that. He has all that going for him at a really, really high level go Bear is just more physically mature by a pretty wide margin at this point, but I think the offensive gap does offset that in Chet's favor. The reason I don't have him higher because when I think about Chet Holmgren, I fully expect him to be a top ten player in this league. 00:26:43 Speaker 1: I do. 00:26:43 Speaker 4: I just think he's going to grow in all of these categories and he's checking all of the boxes to have a truly elite impact at the five or at the four, which he'll play a lot more of this year with Isaiah Hartenstein. He just wasn't at the level offensively I wanted him to be at in this postseason run. Fifteen point six points per game on fifty eight percent true shooting, only twenty six percent from deep, and he went cold from beyond the arc. That's not something that I expect from a very, very good shooter. Although he did have a little bit of a streakiness to him throughout this year, but he's awesome at that normally. That was one problem. The other problem was just his inability to prevent Dallas from switching everything. The fact that he's just not the level of post player that he would need to be to punish them for doing that, and so that allowed them to do exactly what they wanted defensively, and that was a problem for O Case's offense. It was a reason that they continually stagnated. If he were able to attack those mismatches more effectively, then he would already be higher on this list. So I prefer the offensive skill advantage to Rudy, and I do think that he will only play better on that end going forward, especially in the playoffs, compared to this year. But the inconsistency, the immaturity when it comes to him taking on a real high volume role, the ability to impact the game at the level where it's like, you put that guy in a playoff game with the best dudes in the world, and it's like, do you think that he can be the best player on the floor with the dude? Do I have one spot above Chet? There's inconsistency. We

have seen him reach that level though the Chet that we saw in the playoffs I didn't think was quite ready for that level. But I love the guy. I have all the Chet stock in the world. This feels like an appropriate spot for him at this moment after his rookie year. Let's keep in mind. 00:28:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have Chet in my seventh spot. I have him one spot ahead of Rudy. I agree with a lot of what you said about the gap between them. It's gonna be hard. Chet's not going to close that rebounding or strength or any of the advantages that Rudy has. But again, the offensive skill gap is so massive, and you talk about the playoffs. I don't really care or worry about the playoff shortcomings at all. I think Chet is as sure of a thing offensively as it comes. He is one of the most skilled guys at this size I have ever seen the handle, the feel, the pace, the shooting touch. You said he's a unicorn, man. These freaks that have been coming out Christops check Wemby, these freakishly long, tall guys who can protect the hell out of the rim and shoot the hell out of the ball. It's an invaluable skill set in today's NBA, and I only think he's going to get better. So that's why I got him above Rudy. I think he can only improve from here, and I really expect that in this next season. Man, he's already one of the best rim protectors in the league. You mentioned the playoffs stet he was the fifth best rim protector inside six feet this past season. Again, I just think he's really great in a lot of things right now, and he's only going to continue to improve. So I've got him at number seven. 00:29:45 Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll only continue to improve, no question, I'm with you in terms of his long term offensive level. It's just the consistency at this point is not at the level of the dudes above him. And of course he's bringing more defensive value, but there was a pretty big gap in terms of the offensive level, I would say in this postseason run. So in my number eight spot, I do have Karl Anthony Towns Cat. I did not forget about you, and it's very close between him and Rudy, like it really is in terms of their impact. And I think if you were to move off of one of them as Minnesota, it probably would be Cat because you think our foundation is so predicated upon the elite defense that Rudy is so essential to, and can we find somebody who was a big wing who can play the power forward spot, who's maybe a more intuitive fit right where we don't necessarily have two straight up bigs who can bring most of the value that cat. There's not a lot of guys out there, but maybe that's an easier spot to replace than the all world defensive value of Gobert. I just think with Kat's defensive improvement, and that's not to say that he is some stud defensively, but that paired with the offensive skill set, does make me prefer him just by a tiny, tiny margin. He gave you twenty two to eight and three on sixty three percent true shooting in the regular season, and he really is a

special weapon offensively, one of the most skilled offensive bigs that we have ever seen, really the best three point shooting center that we have seen. Volume, efficiency, the ability to do it off movement, off the dribble, it's absolutely ridiculous. He's a seventy eighth percentile player off screens, like again, that shooting off movement at seven feet you just don't see. Eighty ninth percentile roleman very efficient there, and a seventy fifth percentile post up player capable of just brutalizing mismatches, which is extra problematic for defenses when you have both him and go Bear out there, and so you're trying to guard towns with like a bigger wing there's not a lot of wings who can guard Kat on an island. He is also a legit passer, one of the better playmaking fives. Now. He has moments where he's losing can he's not taking care of the ball, he's not making his reads, but overall he is a plus passer at the position, and defensively, his effort has improved significantly and his ability to guard out of the post is really stellar. Now when it comes to guarding in space, he has issues. When it comes to protecting the rim, he's mediocre. But his most important task defensively in his life was guarding Niko Ajokic to allow Gobert to roam in that matchup against the Nuggets, and he did a really, really phenomenal job of flattening out those Jokic post ups, playing physically with him providing just this massive, strong body who he had to go through, and he, in terms of just pure post defense, fared a good bit better than Gobert, who we're talking about is maybe the best defender alive in that matchup. And you can say, all right, well, post defense isn't the most important thing in the modern NBA, and I would have agree with you. But when you can do that against the best post player, the best offensive player on the planet, I've never seen anybody else defend him that well. That matters. That does move the needle on that side of the ball, especially because you have to go through that team probably if you want to advance to the conference finals and beyond, as Minnesota did this past year. I gave his regular season numbers, the playoff numbers not quite as good, nineteen nine to three on fifty eight percent true shooting. And there was a lot of good from kat in this playoff run the Sun series. When he was on the floor, they just could not guard him. Katie was too slight, he was bullying him. He was shooting the ball exceptionally well through the first two rounds of the playoffs, playing very efficient basketball, and then you have the Dallas series. And the Dallas series was just brutal. He went ice cold as a jump shooter, twenty four percent from deep. Tanked his efficiency, and too often you got the out of control bad cat facing up these drives where there's too many dribbles of the basketball. He's getting out of control, which is the worst thing that can happen, and he has to bear a lot of responsibility for that loss in that inconsistency, unfortunately, and that immaturity I mentioned staying on the floor in the Sun series, that's when he wasn't picking up multiple fouls in the early goings of the game. That is ultimately why Kat can't be higher on this because he unequivocally has the talent to climb higher on this list. You think about the highs, and this is what I was referring to in comparison to Check. There is a level of the peak offensive impact in the physicality in these playoff environments that Kat is already built for that Check can't reach at this stage. Coming off of his rookie season. In Game seven against the Nuggets, a rockfight of a game in which Minnesota shot under forty percent, Kat was extremely efficient offensively. He was easily the best source of offense for them, and he was probably he the best defensive player on the floor in that game. Did an awesome job on niko a Jolkicic. So like highest stakes, roughest, ugliest environment, he was the best player on the floor with nikole A Jolkic opposite him, arguably the best player on the floor. He was certainly the best Timberwolve and they're the guys who won. But then you think about the Dallas series and it was really, really ugly. So unfortunately, I don't trust Kat enough yet when it comes to playing smart to put him higher than this. And this was very much a roller coaster playoff run for him, which unfortunately, every playoff run up to this point has been the first couple featured more bad than good. This one was more balanced, but it did ultimately still leave a sour taste in your mouth. I just think he's too skilled offensively, and he's approved by enough defensively for me to have him above guys with more offensive questions. That's not to say that Chet isn't a very good offensive player, but there is definitely a gap between Kat at this point and Chet at this point. 00:36:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you on a lot of what you said. I mean, especially just about the consistency. I mean, if Kat can play controlled basketball, you said it exactly right. The talent is not an issue, and that's what makes Kat such a frustrating player to watch. You'll get the stretch lights out playing smart ball, and then you get bad Cat, and that's what leaves you wanting more. I'm intrigued. Man, you think you think Kat is the more valuable of the two between him and Gobert. 00:36:31 Speaker 4: Like I said, I think it's very very close. But when you think about the peak impact that you can get from Kat, I do think k legitim higher than that that you can get from Gobert. He can be the best player on the floor in a game with that sort of stakes. And Rudy can change any game defensively, but he's going to struggle to be the best player on the floor, probably just because of his offensive limitations. 00:36:55 Speaker 1: And Kat can be a number two. Like I'm confident that he can be a number two. That's why I want the Timberwolves to keep this thing together. You talk about them getting matched up

with Denver. I think they have a really good recipe for contention, right. I don't think Kat is done improving, And I don't mean improving in the same me too, brother uh, in the sense that he's not gonna get any new skills or anything. But it's like what you were mentioning with the consistency aspect. I think he can improve in that regard playing smarter basketball, playing more controlled, just playing more bread and butter. Not getting out of his element, so to speak. Right, you talk about him dribbling way too much, where it's not even it's not shiftiness, it's not changing pace. He's not getting wiggly out here. He's just lowering his shoulder and pounding the rock into the year off literally and is going to get better. I loved what the Timberwolves did in the draft, adding Dillingham and adding Tarren Shannon Junior. They retained a lot of their assets. This works, and. 00:37:55 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's got to hold up his end of the bargain. He's in a Western conferences way better than he was this year. So does Ant. By the way, Cat Thorne is always gonna get all the eye or he's the one that people are gonna point out because everybody loves it and everybody hates Cat and guess what it sucks? Do I think it's unfair. Yeah, But if you don't perform, you don't perform. And when you have the sort of expectations, when you have the sort of talent that Cat does, well, you gotta perform better than that man in the biggest series of your life. 00:38:25 Speaker 1: And when you give us the glimpses that leave us salivating, wanting for more. It's just it makes it that much more difficult because we saw it, you showed it to his cat. Can you do it consistently? That's the real question that's gonna get him higher on this list. 00:38:39 Speaker 4: But if you were on your Center's list, where do you think he would be? 00:38:45 Speaker 1: Nine? I slightly prefer go Bart a little bit more, just because of the baseline he gives me. I would bump Allan off, I would bump Turner to ten, and I think I'd have Cat at my nine spot. So he definitely make my list. I just marginally prefer go Bear a little bit right now. 00:39:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have any problem with that. I don't have any problem with that. I do think that what you get from Gobert on the defensive end is so so consistent, and Cat is sort of inherently inconsistent. But that ceiling man, and I'm hoping that a more consistent playoff run is coming. I want to see more back to the basket cat as opposed to face up Cat and the three point shooting. I hate it when people complain about Cat shooting threes. It's like, what is this nineteen ninety five? Oh my got he's seven feet tall. Why is he shooting threes? He's a forty percent three point shooter, and you shoot fifty through the better part of the first two rounds. There isn't a better shot for him. Like, he can take those all he wants. He's a lethal weapon. It's about playing composed basketball inside the arc, efficient basketball inside the arc, using his physical advantages in a way where he's not over dribbling, He's not lowering his shoulder and getting in danger of turning the ball over committing an offensive foul because he see it. I mean, when he just commits to getting deep position out of the post, quick catch, quick attack, get to that hook shot, it's much more effective than when he catches the ball eighteen feet out and tries to face up from there. That's really where I want to see cat improve that and stop fouling. 00:40:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're we're getting too old for this shit. Know. 00:40:25 Speaker 4: The beautiful thing about being a sports fan, there's only like two days the whole year without a game. Two with so much happening and so much action, that makes just about everyday game day. 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Get the ultimate cheat code for your fantasy football draft with Draft Wizard. Get started today at fantasypros dot com slash volume. 00:42:29 Speaker 4: So you have Gobertte, you have Chet at seven. Yeah, in my number

seven spot logan, I have demon to Sabonis and I didn't think you would like it. And I can't really emphasize enough how small the margin is between seven and ten. And when I think about like Gobert's defensive impact. Yeah, it very nearly does move me more than what Sabonis brings you on the offensive end. But he is one of the best defensive centers in basketball and the production is outstanding nineteen fourteen and eight on sixty four percent true shooting, like the box score right, is always going to be ridiculous. That's where you get the Kendrick Perkins takes, That's where you get some of the analytics love push defensive player of the year. According to one Spanish reporter who is perhaps romantically involved with our vetus or something or would like to be vote Sabonis for literally everything. I'm definitely not on that side of the issue. I do still have concerns and I have problems with Demonte Sabonis even as an offensive player. And the biggest issue there is just his limitations is a high end scorer, because he does rely as a post up player on brute force and when there is somebody who can match his physicality. I mean, he is a hyper physical basketball player, but the playoffs allow for more physical defense. You're more likely to be going up against really high and defensive centers. You're more likely to draw a Draymond Green, for example, in the playoff series that we saw from him, and that's where he struggles. He's a thirty third percentile post up scorer, which really is not good for a star who is posting up at the volume that he is. And as you mentioned, he's not a real floor spacer, right. His jump shooting numbers in terms of efficiency look fine, but he makes one jumper a game, so he is not holding defenses accountable for playing off of him, which they will do in the playoffs, which we saw very clearly in the Warrior series. I am excited, though, for Sabonis to have the opportunity to be a third option as a scorer in Sacramento this coming year, because I think adding another dynamic ball handler and shot maker like DeMar Derozen takes that burden off of Domos to give you twenty points every night and allows him to still have a super pronounced offensive impact because he is he's an elite screener. He is an elite passing big. People who try to compare him to Jokic should probably be drawn and quartered and hung in town square because like, just watch, I mean, just don't look at the assist numbers. Actually watch the level of playmaking that is going on. Demont's bonus gets a lot of assists off of handoffs he does. He's also very good at spotting cutters. He is a very very good passer. He's capable of pushing in transition. He's a very good ball handler for his size, and so there is still a production and efficiency as a score combined with this really high level playmaking, combined with this elite rebounding, combined with the fact that he's always gonna have his limitations defensively, He'll never be a real plus on that end, but he does play really hard, makes impassable on that end. When I compare him to Cat, I do think that there is a stability, a consistency that comes with the bonus on the back of his playmaking, whereas with Cat it's like there's nights where it's just man, I mean, jacking up batshots, playing out of control. It's just a steadier value that you get from Sabonis. And I do think that overall, Sabonis is overrated, which is tough because sometimes guys get overrated and everybody then agrees that they're overrated, and they become underrated. And I feel like maybe that's what you've done with Sabonis here, Like, I'm sorry, Bro, Myles Turner over him is clinically insane. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. That's clinically insane. That's situation bias, that's anti Sabonis slander, and you've taken it too far. But all these other dudes who were talking about in this range, I can definitely see the case. Sabonis has never been a dude to have a pronounced on off impact, right, Like, his teams are basically always hovering around a neutral difference in terms of their net rating with him on and off the court, there's really no difference. But I don't want to ignore the fact that you know, he came to Sacramento, he pioneered the number one offense in basketball. He was pivotal to the transformation of that identity. And let's give him another shot in the playoffs. Like, I think the Warriors series was kind of the worst case scenario, right, Draymond is a very tough draw for him. He was ice cold as a jump shooter in that series. I do think if we see him back, I still have the same concerns but I do think they would be less pronounced, So seven feels okay for me. He's so productive, He's more consistent than the dudes who I have below him. 00:47:28 Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned that, because I completely agree. I'm not ready to just sell all of my Sabona stock. Now what is it going to take for him to crack my list? To climb high on here? I think the Kings need to maintain an above average defense, which they were last year. They were fourteenth in defensive rating. That is a massive improvement from twenty fifth, where they were when they made the playoffs and lost to the Warriors. I love the addition of Demarta Rose, and I know people are talking about the shooting concerns. Sabonis is unique in the sense that he is just good at creating advantage for these guys out of handoffs. You mentioned the screening, like the King's offense is just going to help manufacture looks easy ones for these guys, and Tomorrow is really talented at making tough shots. Okay, Well, let's spoon feed them some easy ones. So I'm I'm optimistic. I'm I'm optimistic that with another opportunity, sa Bonus can be better and can improve. And I'm gonna be honest. This last year and you talk about him playing hard, I think that was direct correlation to his shortcomings in the playoff run. And I think he played all year with a massive, massive chip on his

shoulder. Let me argue the Turner thing, though. I think Miles Turner is a little bit more match up proof than Sabonis. And I'm just gonna use a small example here. You talk about him matching up with Draymond. The floor spacing is a concern. You just can't run complete drop like you can versus Sabonis. I'm gonna live with a s Bonus jump shot every single day of the week. You can't do that against Miles Turner. And this is a small example, but I think it's a good one. Savonus matched up four times against the Vitza Zubats this last season, and you're talking about that brute force. When a guy can match up with him physically, his offensive advantage is a little bit negated and he's not a complete bozo against Zubots. He's still put up sixteen to thirteen and he had seven assists per game, but he's got forty percent in the field. He shot twenty two percent from deep and he had a true shooting percentage of forty eight percent. That's the one thing I want to emphasize is I just think against these big men that can match up with him physically, spons just really struggles to score, and that to me is really problematic. I don't think Miles Turner's ever going to have that issue because he is something that you can take away. He's big as hell and he can just shoot over everybody, and I think that's really valuable to have at the five spot. Maybe I am tripping a little bit, maybe my King's bias is showing. Maybe my pro Halliburton agenda in propaganda is still being pushed and pedaled here. But I just think Turner's a little bit more matchup proof. He has something that you can't really take away. You can kind of negate Sabonis as a scorer in certain matchups, and that's problematic to me. 00:50:09 Speaker 4: In a playoff series, I just think the gap in rebounding value and the gap in play making value, and that it is far more significant than the fact that I would probably agree that Turner is a slightly better pure scorer because that jump shooting value is just so pure, it's so consistent. But also, I mean, when you talk about Tyrese Haliburton, man, like, I found the stat at one point, but the leap in production between Turner with Halle and without him is pretty significant. And again, he's really getting all of his value on the offensive side, not all of it, but that is where he is slanted as a basketball player who's a better offensive player, who can transform an offense more. I think it's by far to Monto Sabonis. I think you're probably viewing this from the perspective of I don't want the Monta Sabonis to be the second best player on my basketball team, right you're wincing. What are we wincing at? Come on, say it, say it. 00:51:07 Speaker 1: I believe I've found the numbers. 00:51:09 Speaker 4: Let's hear him. 00:51:10 Speaker 1: Without Haliburton, Turner goes down to fourteen points six boards on fifty six percent through shooting. 00:51:18 Speaker 4: It helps to play with Tyre's Halliburton logan, It helps to play with Tyres Halibert. Not everybody gets to do it. Some people have to be traded for Tyre's Halliburt and then everybody hates them for the rest of time. I know that you know. I know that you know, And this is a crazy take. I'm not gonna lie to you. Respect Almos a little bit more than this for goodness sakes, But I do have conflicted feelings about having him up at number seven because I probably don't want him to be the best player on my team. 00:51:46 Speaker 1: God, well, he might not have to do that anymore. Luckily, he might not have to do that anymore. 00:51:50 Speaker 4: Man, at least he doesn't have to be your number two score doesn't have that. I certainly don't want him to have to be in that role. Yeah, it's tough, tough list. Okay, let's move into the number six spot. Logan, who do you have there? 00:52:05 Speaker 1: Number seven? Big gap? Number six in my Spix spot is bam at a Bio and I was a little bit conflicted with this one. Between five and six, I have a gentleman who's a little bit better offensively at my next spot, and if availability was a concern, I think I definitely would have at a Bio one spot higher. But he just is really still limited offensively, and I like bam Man, and he'll give you the flashes all he'll give you the flashes man. Some of the passing some of the turnarounds and the jump shooting, and you're like, damn man, I think BAM's putting it together, but they're still just inconsistency with his offensive game, which limits him from climbing higher on my list. He shot just thirty five percent overall on jump shots last season. He shot thirty four percent out of the mid range. He's just an average efficiency post scorer, and so those limitations are real to me. It's always just gonna be a little bit janky with Bam Man, and it's always a post turnaround where he's rising and firing, and you'll have games there's no doubt, man who have his games where he's on and you're like, wow, this is legitimate improvement. I have yet to really be convinced by that. But the one thing that Bam has going for him is he is one of the handful of best defensive players on planet Earth. And when I think about the Defensive Player of the Year awards over the past couple of seasons, the one that goes to Jared Jackson Junior, the one that goes to Marcus Smart, I kind of look back at those and I go, damn man, Like Bam and a d probably should have won one or both of those in terms of just raw impact. I don't know if I agree with either of those awards in hindsight. Maybe Jared Jared had an insane season. Marcus Smart, I think is probably a little bit worse. 00:53:46 Speaker 4: But Marcus Smart is the worst deep play ever. 00:53:50 Speaker 1: Bamiti Deer Bamiti Dear probably gonna be like two of the greatest defenders to never lock down that along with Tim Duncan, because Tim Duncan obviously never gets one either. 00:53:59 Speaker 4: Scotti never got one. 00:54:01 Speaker 1: Scott he never got one. Yeah, that's diabolical, But they're gonna

be in that handful, that pantheon. That's probably the Mount Rushmore right now, unless I'm blanking on somebody. 00:54:10 Speaker 4: Theo Ratliffe never got one. It is crazy, though, dude. You do look through the course of history and it's just like monster shot blockers win over and over, and great defensive wings or great defensive bigs who don't have crazy block numbers never win. And eighty is kind of the toughest to explain because he has had it all and he's just never gotten one. 00:54:32 Speaker 1: And BAM's unique in the sense that I don't know if we've ever seen a guy at the five spot that is do you think Ben Wallace? Do you think Ben Wallace is comparable in that respect, or do you think Bam just completely. 00:54:42 Speaker 4: Clear there's a switch ability. Yeah, Bam is clear. 00:54:46 Speaker 1: I mean, BAM's one of the best you've ever seen. And it's so fun watching those defensive possessions where he switches on to every single ball handler. He just blows shit up. He's super disruptive, and I think he gets overlooked because Bam doesn't have the overwhelming blocks totals, he doesn't have the overwhelming steels totals, but his impact is immense. And when you were talking about like one man potential defenses, that are not many guys that I would take over Bam. But when I look at everybody above him, I think there is a little bit of a rim protection gap. Those guys are just bigger, longer, stronger. They're comparable as rebounders, and with everybody above him, there is a significant offensive gap. I don't know if BAM's ever going to figure it out. Man, When he was in year. 00:55:28 Speaker 2: Three, year four, and I'm sitting there watching a little Boastern rounds and I'm getting a little giddy, and I'm getting a little bit excited, and I'm thinking, man, if he builds on this and this can be his foundation, there's something there. 00:55:39 Speaker 1: He just hasn't had enough of a substantial leap like Domos. He's a good playmaker, he's a good passer. He's not on Domos's level, obviously, but he's great with handoffs. He's good at spotting cutters. You can run actions and offense through him, you know, especially when Jimmy Butler's out and you see him with other guys out, the run offense to him at the top of the key, and he is capable of doing that. There's still a little bit of a gap there. So BAM's in this little bit of a tweener range to meet Carson. He's an elite, elite defender, but he's still limited offensively, and that's why for me, he cannot be any higher. But like I said at the top of this, I would hear an argument for him at number five. 00:56:15 Speaker 4: So I have him at number five, and I know who you have at number five, because these two dudes are going to be in the same range. Here's why I prefer Bam to KP and I am a huge, huge KP guy. I mean, I presume that's how you have in the five spot, right, And by the way, I think a lot of people might think that that is crazy. I don't think the gap between these two is nearly as big as most people probably, And part of that is that I am extremely high on KP because I think he does a lot of the key things that we talk about that you look for at the center position at an elite, elite level. I do think, though, you have to consider situation, and when you talk about BAM's offensive frustrations, I get it, and I'm there with you. However, we also have to look at the situation, and we have to look at the lack of creation alongside him and the burden that has been put on him to try to become a twenty point per game score to try to do so consistently with self created offense, right, And he has grown in that respect. He has improved as a ball handler, and he still does have a good bit of offensive game. Like if we're talking about the elite defensive guys, right, it goes without saying, but the offensive gap between him and of Rudy Gobert is absolutely massive. He shot fifty six percent on floaters. This past year, he shot just over forty three percent on all two point jumpers. He was a sixty eighth percentile isolation creator and remarkably only ran thirty six pick and rolls logan, but as the ball handler, a ninety eighth percentile pick and roll creator in terms of efficiency. And you saw in that Celtics series like sometimes it was Bam, we need you to basically operate as a big, playmaking wing. He is capable of doing that. Is it a good option for your offense? No, that's not what you want him to be doing. But that's kind of the point. They haven't gotten the guy who could optimize him. Imagine him playing with a Trey Young, right, Imagine him playing with a lead ball handler, an elite playmaker. He has all the tools to be a fantastic vertical space where he's always been a freak athlete, great lab finisher, but he doesn't have those looks manufactured for him with nearly the volume that you would like him to. So he has just done so much to help drag these underwhelmingly talented Miami teams two deep playoff runs to the finals, often on the back of the defense being their strength, which he is clearly the most important part of Oftentimes, like their defensive personnel is not that impressive. Alongside him and Jimmy, they play their asses off, they're smart, the coaching is brilliant, but you're not talking about again, great personnel. He has freaker switch ability. It's the best that we've ever seen from a big Kevin Garnett. Well, he's top two. Okay, he's top two in terms of switchability. One of the most versatile defenders that we've ever seen. He's captain four straight top ten defenses. And you mentioned the rim protection is not what you get from some of these elite pure rim protectors, and I feel like sometimes heat fans just like overlook that fact and they're like bamguards in space, way better than these guys. And he's also an elite rimp protector and he's not. He gives you under a blocking game. He only holds opposing players six percent below their average around the rim. But I do think

that he's better than that number might just reflect I think that his instincts are excellent. He's a high impact interior defender, great rebounder, absurdly high effort defensive player just does everything and then if you need a guy to check Giannis, think about what he did in that twenty twenty three series, just absolutely stonewalled him in the key moments of like the closeout game when Giannis was on the floor, because he's such an athlete, He's so strong, he moves his feet so well. Really was like the best one on one defender for Giannis that you could ask for. When he drew Tatum and Brown, he defended those guys very well on that run. Like he just changes the game completely on that side and is so much more versatile than KP on that end. KP is a great pure rim protector, but there's not a coverage that I'm not comfortable with BAM playing, and I know that every single night you cannot possibly exploit him. He is going to have an elite impact where it's like KP, I worry about guarding out in space and if BAM we're in a more privileged offensive situation. With that athleticism, with that playmaking, with that ball handling, with the fact that he does have that to touch, he does have some of that shot making, I think that it would be pretty clear the difference between the two relatively clear at least, and we're seeing him with Team USA right now. It's kind of the perfect environment for him because the more talent you put around him, the better he gets. The life that you require him to try to be your number two offensively, and he can do every little thing at such a high level like that's just such a winning basketball player. So that's why I can't have him higher than five because of his offensive inconsistency. The twenty twenty two finals run he was or the twenty twenty three finals run, he was under eighteen a night on fifty three percent through shooting. When that touch shot making is off, it can be rough. But again, he's not getting much created for him in Miami. I do think he could be more efficient in different situations with legit pick and roll creation. And by the way, we're seeing flashes of floor spacing. Now you talk about wanting Bam to improve fifteen of forty two from deep this past year, we're seeing that jump shooting with Team USA right now. He just turned twenty seven. I only see opportunities for him to get better. So as much as I love KP like BAM has in two separate playoff runs. Even with his offensive limitations, played at the level of a top twenty guy, been transformative defensively. He's an all world defender. He's a high end passing big. He's a great athlete who also has offensive skill. I can't have him below my five spot. 01:02:11 Speaker 1: It's a money argument. As a money argument, man, I'm not gonna lie. I you got me reconsidering it a little bit. I'm still gonna rock with KP. Dough. I mean he is a he's a nightmare matchup man. I mean you saw it in this run, and I completely agree with you about the

situation. That's the biggest detail that makes me reconsider this just because damn man, they don't have anybody who can really create any kind of dribble penetration from the perimeter, who can yeah create Bam and he looks everything. That's a phenomenal point because so many other guys do play with like at least a good lead ball handler, somebody who was competent at creating opportunities. Bam has really nobody. That's not that's not disrespectful to like Tyler Hero anything, but it's like he is not a guy who's gonna get downhill Tarro's hear is not getting downhill. Man. These are tough buckets right when Jimmy's out there. 01:03:06 Speaker 4: Sure, But in the playmaking, yeah, they ever played with an elite playmaker. 01:03:10 Speaker 1: Exactly, and Band's been consistently greatest the number two. I just think there's enough of an offensive gap. We've mentioned these stats a myriad of times on the show. The best post up scorer in basketball, the best mismatch attacker in basketball. You see this throughout the playoff run in the finals, like KP gets very little burn. You put a little dude on him, he can just shoot over him, and he is an elite shooter of the basketball from mid range, from behind the arc. I really value the mismatch attacking that KP brings you and the straight up rimp protection. He's one of the best rim protectors in all of basketball statistically inside six feet. I believe he was the best in basketball this last season, nearly two blocks a night, and so he is bringing you a ton of value. I agree with you, he's in a privileged situation. But KP's gotten a lot better from his Dallas days man, And oh yeah, yeah, I think he's a bit of a better rim protector straight up. I agree with you, Bam just completely clear this as an overall defender. But those are probably the two things that I value the most at the center spot, and KP does them at an elite level. So that's why I have him at five. The floor spacing, the rim protection. If I factored in availability, KP would slide to my six spot, BAM would slied to my five. But I think I slightly prefer a KP skill set the bands. 01:04:27 Speaker 4: KP is the better offensive player, not by as much as BAM is the better defensive player, in my opinion. But when you think about what you want from your center, you said an elite rimp protection, check elite post up play. He was the most efficient post up player in basketball one point three points per post up. So you can't switch, right, I mean, you think about what Dallas was doing in Game one. It was just laughable. He shoots over top of these guys. He shoots sixty percent on these turnaround and face up jumpers. He draws fouls at an obscene rate too. You get up in his air, he just doesn't mind. He will turn and fire right over you. That's an insane weapon. It destroys teams. You want floor spacing, He's almost thirty eight percent from deep and he pulls from deep range at seven foot three, so there's an extra level of stress that

it applies to the defense. He's a seventy eight percentile spot up player. You want a dude who can roll and pop very effectively, He's got that. He's a super efficient finisher as a roller, and he's a great pick and pop big of course, and he was the third most efficient eighteen point per game score this past year, behind Jokic and Yannis. So I think it'll surprise more people that I have KP at six. I think that'll be surprising enough on its own. I think you having him above Bam will at another layer to that because he doesn't produce in the box score at the level of Demats the Bonus. He doesn't produce in the box score at the level of Karl Anthony Towns. But my god, he is a hyper efficient, hyper versatile offensive weapon who nobody has an answer for, who is way improved from his Dallas days, as you mentioned, who protects the rim at an extremely high level. He's an average defender in space, maybe even a little bit worse than that. He's an average rebounder for the five spot, but overall he comes pretty close to epitomizing the skill set you want from a modern big unless they're you know, an absolute freak twent a Yokic on MB whatever. And I can just bank on that in a way that I can't bank on so Bonus or Cat because both of them are offensively two inconsistent. I can't bank on from Chet and Go Bear because while they are both better defenders, KP is still a really high level defender who's an awesome offensive player. Where they both have their clear issues there, especially Go Bear, And unfortunately, I just think the fact that Boston went out there and they won the title even with KP playing limited minutes because he was hurt, is gonna make him underrated because people will look and they'll say, first of all, he didn't prove it on the big stage because he didn't have a chance to outside of Game one, in which he was the best player on the floor. But they'll just say, all right, they won it without him, they didn't need him. That Boston team was so talented and they were so much more talented than Dallas and the teams they faced in the East that. Yeah, I guess they didn't, But I think they could have gone down damn near any of their five key guys and they would have been just fine. Like they were that good. I don't think they could have gone down Jason Tatum. They probably couldn't have gone down Jaylen Brown with the level he was playing at. But you know, Drew Derek White, like that team was just so talented. I did think KP was their second best player throughout the regular season. I wish that we had gotten to see it fleshed out in the playoffs because what we did see again in Game one was absolutely ludicrous. I'm super high on his skill set, I'm super high on his winning impact. I feel good about him at six. I couldn't put him above Bam though. 01:07:53 Speaker 1: Oh man, I agonized over number four. 01:07:57 Speaker 4: Wow, you're a crazy bastard, Logan Cam then, and if you say one name, I'm gonna flip my lid. Are you I don't think

you are. I think you're gonna say the name that I have. 01:08:10 Speaker 1: I have Victor wee Byam on my first but. 01:08:12 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay. I just if you had Wemby over Ad, I would have flipped my lid a little. 01:08:17 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it after AD's playoff run because this has been the most I've been impressed with Anthony Davis since the title run. Really like he has been kind of underwhelming. He wasn't. But I do want to be clear. I think that Wemby versus AD is a real conversation and I think it's gonna heat up into next season. If Ad keeps pace, if he plays like he did last season, can hold. But it's also like, man, how much better is Wemby gonna get now? I want to be clear about why I think it's close. One the fact that the Spurs are introducing a guy like Chris Paul into the system. Say what you want about Chris Paul at this stage in his career, he's clearly not the player he once was, but he's gonna manufacture looks for Wemby. It's such a high level. Wenby did not have that luxury in his rookie season. It was basically Pop sabotaging him by playing him with Jeremy Sohan at the point and saying, hey, Wenby, go figure it out, just go get your own looks now with an actual, legitimate, good decision maker and good point guard in there. I think Wenby's gonna thrive even more and have even more easy looks generated for him. The second reasons just the physical advantages that he has over him. You can't teach size, you know, you can't teach length. It's one of the biggest selling points of one. He's a freak man, He's a freak. He's seven foot four. How long is his wingspan? Like eight foot? Yeah, ridiculous. Like there are just physical advantages that Wenby possesses over Anthony Davis. Is gonna give him easy looks, elite lob finishing from anywhere on the floor, you can just kind of sling it up near the rim. Wemby will find it. He'll go get it. He's got those Mister fantastic arms Man. That's actually probably Wenby superhero comp man. He's mister fantastic dude. 01:09:54 Speaker 4: Stretcher cash underpants, one of. 01:09:56 Speaker 1: The two stretch Armstrong. That's why it was a debate to me the level of rim protector that he is already at because of his overwhelming length. He was seventh in rim protection inside six feet. Again, the length he can just disrupt shots that nobody else in the world can and it's really hard to defend him. The reason that I don't have him above Ad is the physical maturity, the strength, and the bread and butter looks. I still think Ad can get to those looks basically a well out of the post, and he is so freaking strong. I still think he's the best defender in basketball. But I really contemplated this one, and I think that how Wemby is ascending, Man, it could be a real conversation as quickly as next season. I think we'll probably stand pat. I think Wenby will be four next year. I think Ad will still be three. But it's very very close. 01:10:50 Speaker 2: Man. 01:10:50 Speaker 1: You can't teach the things and the advantages that Wenby has man at his size. 01:10:55 Speaker 4: You sure can't. 01:10:56 Speaker 3: Man. 01:10:56 Speaker 4: Then I'm just gonna read off some numbers that are going to blow your mind, Logan, and I've probably said them before, but you know you've decimated your memory with that marijuana, so you're not gonna remember it. It'll be like you're seeing it for the first time all over again. Since moving to center on December eighth, Wemby averaged twenty two and a half points eleven rebounds. You should read four and a half assists per game. 01:11:17 Speaker 1: You should read the post all Star break numbers. 01:11:20 Speaker 4: Well, okay, buddy, wait until you hear the per thirty six numbers. Pal, don't steal my thunder on fifty eight percent for shooting with three point nine blocks per game in just twenty nine minutes per game. So per thirty six, that's twenty seven point three points, thirteen point four rebounds, five point four assists, and four point eight blocks per game. That is over fifty two games. That's basically two thirds of the man's rookie season. He is a top three defender on the planet, completely destructive rim protector. As you mentioned, I don't know that anybody causes opponent to adjust their offensive approach more than Wenby because of just his overwhelming size and length. Gobart is a more disciplined defender at this stage, right, But when you think about the adjustments that Anikola Jokic, for example, had to make in terms of his approach versus Wenby catching the ball from beyond the three point line and trying to get into these running floaters, being just very concerned about not having to deal with that length around the rims more so than he is with anybody else just the overall deterrence factor. It is so so impactful and offensively, it's again the size and the length that is the single biggest thing. Because we can gush about the skill as we should. The man shot forty six percent on step back threes and over thirty seven percent on all pull up threes. That's disgusting. He was a seventy seventh percentile isolation creator, thirty seventh percentile pick and roll, which isn't good, but it's not bad. And he's a seven to four rookie and he can shoot over the top of you. But he also i would say, got more efficient and compact as a ball handler, more comfortable as a driver throughout his rookie year, and he can see everything as a passer, and he's a pretty inventive passer. The laydown passes that you see from him like it's legit stuff. He's already one of the best passing bigs in the NBA. But again, it's just like that ability to have such easy offense when you're just playing with a capable playmaker, because the catch ratius is like nothing that we've seen around the rim. That is only going to become more and more prevalent and gonna make him more and more efficient as he plays with Chris Paul and then as he plays with higher end guards throughout

his career. He's also the best transition scoring big in basketball already because he moves down the floor like a gazelle and the impact is a rookie was already so pronounced plus seven on off my favorite stat, everybody's favorite stat about the point soh on experiment. Now it didn't work, but when Wemby and Trey Jones were on the floor together, which is a huge sample size, they were a plus four net rating team. They were legitimately good with that roster, just when you put him with a capable point guard. There's obviously areas to improve. Wenby can still become more consistent as a shooter because he was just over thirty two percent from deep on the year. Overall, he will improve as a post player, and he needs to. He's still inefficient there twenty ninth percentile. Part of that is adding more strength, bulking up, which I do think he will do. Part of the shooting issues as well is shot selection, shot quality, which will get better with him maturing, becoming more physical, him playing with better ball handlers and playmakers. I do think he can become a little bit more discipline defensively, not chase blocks quite as much, and he can take better care of the basketball because he did average three point seven turnovers a game, which is a lot, and that's with a lot of responsibility. Again, I think it needs to be about creating easier stuff for him going forward. But he's got to take better care of the basketball. But I love BAM Spec Bam so much. I just think the talent is so overwhelming with Wenby. Like when I think about what he could do just next year, right just with CP three the pick and pop game, he could easily shoot over thirty five percent from deep at seven to four and be an unstoppable lob target as a roller who can also pull up threes at a good clip, who can attack off the bounce, who can facilitate with self created offense, while being a top three defender on the planet. Like we're talking about what we expect from him going into year two, you know, it's ridiculous. I think he's already a top twenty for sure, borderline top fifteen player. I'm with you. Eighty is more physically mature, more polished, and that is why he still has the edge at this point and it is not that close to me. But Wenby's obviously one of the greatest talents that we've ever seen, and I think he's gonna go down as one of the greatest players ever. 01:15:52 Speaker 1: He also shot worse off catch and shoot attempts than he gets off of the dribble from behind the arc again is the challenge. Yeah, I think he's gonna get even better there. Man, Yeah, I think Wenby's gonna be the best player on planet Earth one day. 01:16:09 Speaker 2: Man. 01:16:09 Speaker 1: I don't know when that day comes, but it's it's gonna be probably soonilar rather than later. 01:16:13 Speaker 4: Man, not far away. I'm gonna say year four, Wemby is the best player on the planet. Would you like to add anything about ad at number three? 01:16:24 Speaker 1: Just a few more things about the playoff run. Sixteen boards a night, twenty eight points for assist was the Lakers' best player, sixty seven percent for shooting. It was just finally so vindicating for Anthony Davis, the fact that we got this kind of again. It wasn't a run, it was one series, but damn like he struggled against Jokic in this last matchup, and I just thought he did so much better job of holding his own defensively as best you can against a guy like Jokic's the best offensive player on planet Earth. But he was so much better offensively. That's what we had been asking Ad to do, was passive, was super aggressive, took over when the team needed him, and kept games close. You couldn't have asked Ad to do anything more in the in the first round series that the Lakers played, And that's what I was waiting for all year long. After you know, some disappointing moments in the playoffs, he he proved it. And it is that physical maturity, it's the overwhelming impact he can have everywhere. Defensively, I still think he's the best defender in basketball eight. He's a monster. But there are offensive, you know, limitations in terms of floor spacing and just reliability that you get with the two guys above him. So I don't think that's you know, particularly close. I think you're looking at two of the best players in all of basketball with the top two guys on this list. But Ad deserves his respect. Man, He's still one of the top ten players on planet Earth. 01:17:46 Speaker 4: To me, I think I'm with you, dude. When we did our top ten players at the end of the regular season, I had him in that ten spot. I really really love eighty. I think he's playing at an incredibly high level. And to gave you twenty five, twelve and a half and three and a half on sixty two percent through shooting this regular season. You mentioned the playoff numbers, but his skilled shot making really has improved. It was crazy in the playoffs, but in the regular season almost fifty two percent on floaters, forty nine percent on hook shots, forty three percent on two point jumpers, really solid numbers all around. And on top of that, he's third in the league and restricted area makes per game. He's a super effective role man, he's a sixty eighth percentile post up scorer, and he's one of the few best defenders on the planet. So I thought that there were some disappointing aspects of this playoff series. As awesome as he was as a shot maker, and the production as a score in on the glass is just insane, but he really really quieted down down the stretches of these games. Fourth quarters. You get three points per game from him on thirty five percent shooting and I did think it was the weakest defensive showing that we've seen from him, coming off of the best defensive run of his career and one of the best defensive runs that we've seen in a long time in this league in twenty twenty three. But he's obviously still one of the league's best there elite RIM protector guards very well in space

ninety six percentile post defender. There's a gap offensively between him and the top two though. There's just a different level of stress that they placed on defense, a different level of consistent dominance of overall scoring and of playmaking, and just a consistency as well, because eighty was really really good offensively in this postseason and really good in the regular season, but twenty twenty three, right, it was a much more up and down experience offensively. So I think he's locked into that three spot. I still think there's a gap between him and Wemby. I think there's a gap between him and the top two. Though. Should we have the mbid Jokic debate for the eighteen thousandth time, maybe we speed run at this time. 01:19:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. I don't care what stephen A's got to say. Man and beatover Jokic is inarguable. And if someone says they just say that, yees say that he said I would take him beat over Jokic. 01:19:58 Speaker 4: And when did I think this? 01:20:00 Speaker 1: This is on some podcast I saw a podcast. 01:20:03 Speaker 4: Gross, How much is Ben Franklin paying him for these stakes? 01:20:06 Speaker 1: Come on now, buddy, they are lying. I think it is sensationalism. I think it is rage bait. The gap to me, we're talking about gas. The gap to me between embid and Jokic is large. Shout out to Embiid for this playoff run. Shout out to him for how he protects the rim. There's a reason he's number two on this list. Jokic already climbed the mountain. Embiid has not. Embid has yet to be to a conference finals. And you know what we can do, all the facts, we can do, all the numbers. The concrete point to me between Embiid and Jokic is the ease of the offense. When you were watching these games, Philadelphia's offense stagnates and embido pound that rock on the low block and just wait there for you know, a cool ten to fifteen seconds, and their offense devolves into that a lot. That's never the case with Denver, man like it is never the case that offense never stagnates, the ball is always moving. There is such that's a unselfish there's the selflessness, and there is a beauty to Denver's offense that you just don't get. You couple that with the fact that Jokich is probably the best tough shot maker in the league and the best post scorer in the league and one of the strongest dudes in the league. I don't care that he had a down jump shooting run. That doesn't really matter to me, Like Embiide has done nothing to surpass him or possesses a skill set that puts him over him. I just think it's inarguable at this point. And the final thing that I'll add to this is one of the points that I make a lot about EMBID, But is the foulbating and the aesthetics of the play that's a component of this To me, man, it is just a part of the EMBID experience down to Team USA. Embiid Damn man, it's embarrassing. 01:21:48 Speaker 4: I get it. 01:21:48 Speaker 1: If Trey Young is doing the foul Grifton thing, or if Austin Reeves is

doing it. Trey Young is like a buck sixty soken, wet man. He's got to get whatever fouls he can get. Austin Reeves, you know, is six six ' four like a buck eighty. You know, like, all right, I get it with those guys. Embi, you're seven to one, two ninety. 01:22:10 Speaker 2: Flopping around like a fish. 01:22:11 Speaker 1: You're not gonna get these calls. And I hope he takes it to heart the Team USA experience. You should not get these calls, my man. And it's just embarrassing to me that he griffs so hard and that is such a fundamental part of his game. Until he stops doing that, I'm not even gonna consider it, man, hell man, until he wins a ring and wins finals MVP, I'm not ready to have this debate because Jokic already did all that, So all of this comes together, man, But the foul bating, the aesthetics of his game, the stagnation of Philadelphia's offense, all of that is a huge component why I can't put him beat above Jokic. And like I said at the top, if anybody says that I think they're a BS or man, I think they're full of bs, and I think they're lying to the audience and to themselves. And I think you should stop listening to them immediately. Man, I don't. I think you can make the argument right now. 01:23:03 Speaker 4: Oh Logan brings canceled culture to basketball. Any diversity of opinion, he squashes and urges his far left mob to burn them at the stake. I won't stand for it. I have him beat at number one. No, I don't, of course I don't. What are we doing here? Of course I don't. Come on, everybody knows that I have Niko Yokich at number one. I do want to give propsteenbeid though. I mean, this was one of the great regular seasons before he got hurt that we have ever seen. He was everything damn near thirty five eleven and six on sixty four percent through shooting, ridiculous. There's just an overwhelming combination of size and skill from this guy, as you mentioned, like seven to one, three hundred pounds, who also shot forty eight percent from mid range. Just ridiculous face up game. Between the shot making and the foul drawing thirty nine percent from deep he was a ninety second percentile spot up player. Phenomenal post hub, phenomenal isolation hub, comfortable ball handling at that size, improved as a jump shooter, improved as a playmaker. An elite pure interior defender like Embiid is one of the five best players on Planet Earth. I agree with you though, in terms of the postseason gap, and it's not a question of Embiid getting a ring. Right, we can't view things in simple terms like that Jokic has one, Embid doesn't. Christian Brown also has one, right, Jim Loskadoff has one. I'm not giving you Jim Moscatoff actually has a lot. I'm not going to give you my take on Jumpin' Jim over Joel Embiid here today. But it is about the individual performance, and this year was mostly a positive. It was the most productive we've seen Embiid. His jumper mostly came through, which had not been the case in the previous couple playoffs. His

playmaking was better, and he did this all while he was hurt with a supporting cast that, outside of Tyrese Maxi, really wasn't all that skilled offensively. Still, he had his issues. He made one field goal per game in fourth quarters and shot twenty three percent there so the shot making did fail him some when it mattered most. He still averaged over four point two turnovers per game, and he did struggle some with the double teams, as we've seen from him historically in the postseason. He had that nine turnover performance in Game five and was just brutal in the fourth and Maxi bailed him out with an absolute masterclass. So we just haven't seen him reach that Yolkic level even in terms of two way impact, where it's just like Yokic's offensive greatness is so pantheon level, I would argue the best ever. It is so inevitable, and Embiid has never approached that in the postseason because even though this year was an improvement, right, it's still clearly clearly levels below what you get from Jokic, and the previous two postseasons from Embiid were really rough. That's when he's averaging point seven points per jumper, under point six points per jumper, brutal, brutal stuff. That's when he's giving you a negative assist to turnover ratio, really struggling with the double teams, averaging under twenty four points per game when he's up about thirty in the regular season. I think he's improved. I think he's progressed as a basketball player, but the totality of the resume that we've seen in recent years from these guys, there's still a big difference. I do believe that Jokic is the better pure scorer in the playoffs. He's been more productive, more efficient year after year because his edge is a shot maker, right, being able to get anywhere in the paint and make sixty five percent of those shots, being that dominant, a post up force, not being reliant on getting to the line. That just scales so well. And then you introduce the playmaking gap, and as you mentioned, the ability to play such flowing, versatile offense that enhances everybody around you. To me, there is still a gap between the two. I have a lot of respect for Embiid. I think he is dominant, but I agree if you're making the case for him over Jokic, I don't think that you respect the insane level of basketball, the all time great level of basketball that Nikoy Jokic is playing and has proven that he can sustain and even take up a level in the playoffs. 01:27:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Jokic literally just had one of the greatest postseasons in NBA history, Embiid has yet to match anything close. 01:27:22 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three. 01:27:23 Speaker 1: Correct with that too, We're still working in theoreticals with Embiid right. We have yet to see him really truly put it together over a large sample size. And I'm not out on Embiid by any means. I'm waiting for it. I want him to make it to the playoffs healthy. I hope his body holds up. They do whatever load management, whatever

they need to do to make sure that Embiid is good. I still think he is capable of doing it. We just haven't seen it yet. And the final thing I'll say on this debate is I feel like the area where most people would argue Embiid over Jokic, as they would go to the rim protection and the defense aspect of it. I agree. I think Embiid is a more impactful defender. But of course, Jokic sometimes gets touted as this scrub that can't defend anybody. Oh he's fat, and he's not mobile, and he can't move, and he can't defend in space, And I just don't think any of that's true. I think he's got good instincts. I think he's got good hands. Was he the most engaged in impactful in these last playoffs? 01:28:22 Speaker 4: No. 01:28:23 Speaker 1: I think it was a legitimate step back kind of across the board for Jokic in this playoff rum. But again, he was coming from one of the best playoff runs ever. It's hard to repeat that and to do that year over year, and he was still damn good. The two AA impact gap is just nowhere close to being large enough for me to put Embiid over Jokic, And yeah, until I see it consistently over a playoff run where Embid can stay healthy and be dominant, I'm just not ready to. Or, you know, unless Jokic retires and wants to go race horses the rest of his life, I'm not gonna put Embid at one. 01:29:01 Speaker 5: No. 01:29:01 Speaker 4: I think that Niko Jokicic is having one of the greatest peaks in the history of this game. And as I've said, I think that he is probably the best offensive player that this game has seen. If you just look at the level that the Nuggets are at offensively, with Jokic on the floor and with any of the other key Nuggets off it, right, they are always an elite offense. When you put any of the other key Nuggets on the floor and take Yolkic off, it like you're looking at least a twelve point swing with every one of them. MPJ, Aaron Gordon, Jamal Murray. I've recited the numbers before. I'm going to try not to recite every Yokic number and give a full monologue. But the Nuggets have a plus twenty on off differential with him over the last two seasons. That stuff we haven't seen since Kevin Garnett carrying those miserable Timberwolves teams. I think he Jokic post up is the most unstoppable play ever because he's so overwhelmingly strong, because his footwork is so absurd, because his mastery of fakes is so absurd, because his touch is by far the best we've ever seen, and because he is also up there for the best passer in the history of this game, in my opinion, a top three passer ever. So that's an unstoppable formula. Then on top of that, he is a damn good shooting big who can do it off movement, curling around screens, who can do it as a popper, who can do it as a spot up player. He's an eighty six percentile pick and roll creator logan the inverted pick and roll is lethal. He scores with eighty fourth percentile efficiency out of isolation. And you talk about this postseason being a step back from last year,

he still gave you twenty nine thirteen to nine on sixty one percent true shooting. Now, he did not defend at the level that he did the year before, and he did not shoot the ball from the perimeter at the level that he did the year before. He also played three games of perfection in a row against not just a dominant defense, a defense that was specifically built to stop him, that clearly has the best personnel to do so. And Kic had to be better down the stretch of Game seven, but like, that's just because he's so clearly the best player on the planet and that's what I expect of him. He still gave you thirty four nineteen and seven on fifty five percent for shooting. Fine efficiency, good efficiency. Considering the context of that game, which was a rock fight. His team scored ninety points. Aaron Gordon, KCP and NPJ combined for sixteen points on seven of twenty four shooting. So if we're playing the blame game. It's like, hey, when your best guy by far doesn't quite live up to his level, you gotta hold him accountable for that. But like, come on, man, I mean very clearly that was a loss that was on the supporting cast, and I think overall people are just taking nugget skepticism a bit too far right now, Like KCP is a big loss. I get it. I think it's a big loss. I think it's a shame that they didn't keep him. But I would not underestimate the overwhelming dominance of Nikolea Jokicchen. That's another thing, because Sixers fans might talk about situation and they might talk about the very nice supporting cast that was assembled around nikoa Jokic. A couple things there. First of all, it is a group that is desperately lacking in shot creation, if not for his overwhelming impact and his ability to consistently create great shots for those guys, Right, Aaron Gordon, if you take Jokic out of the picture, well what do you have. You have a below average shooter. You have a guy who's a solid ball handler, a good athlete, but he can't be entrusted with serious responsibilities. It's the fact that you have a dude who can feed him multiple times a game in the dunker spot, create a great shot quality for him. Mpj' is a lethal catch and shooter right, can do nothing with the ball in his hands off the bounce. Niko Jokic is the sort of dude who creates opportunities for him at such high volume. And when he had none of those dudes out there, right, I mean, when he was dealing with the dregs of this league, when Jamal was hurt, when MPJ was hurt, when CACP was just a twinkle in the Nuggets eye, He's still giving you thirty twelve six. This isn't back to back postseasons in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two on I believe like sixty two sixty three percent true shooting, right, I mean, those are better postseasons then I would argue anything that we've seen from Joel Embiid, and those are in the worst circumstances we've seen any superstar in in postseasons in recent years. And by the way, the Nuggets are posting top five playoff offenses both of those years,

I sense that I'm going into a monologue, even when I said I wouldn't want to do it, but like, come on, man, respect one of the offensive goats, if not the offensive goat. What is more valuable than proving time and again that you can completely reliably inevitably dominate a game like that, Like that baseline value is just so absurdly high up there for the highest floor that we've seen in NBA history. It is so so consistent. The shot quality never waivers, the rebounding is always dominant. He's the number one center in basketball and the number one player in basketball. 01:34:03 Speaker 1: God, I love you, man, Carson. I'm not going to do my Jokic spiel brever. 01:34:07 Speaker 4: God I tried. 01:34:08 Speaker 3: I knew it was coming. 01:34:09 Speaker 1: It's inevitable every time. 01:34:10 Speaker 4: I mean, one point led to another. I know, I had shit to say. 01:34:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, knee bones. Connected to the. 01:34:15 Speaker 4: Latter, I mentioned the efficiency. That I mentioned the efficiency that. 01:34:18 Speaker 1: You didn't mention Facundo Compazo or Austin Rivers unfortunately, and. 01:34:22 Speaker 4: I didn't mention Monte Morris or Will Barton, but just no, those were his you know, backcourt starters. 01:34:31 Speaker 1: True story. I completely agree, man. I think he's unequivocally the best center in the league, and I think he's the best player in the world. I would hear an argument for Giannis or Luca for the best player in the world title, but I think he's got to be the best center in the league. 01:34:45 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:34:45 Speaker 4: Well, you know how I feel about the arguments for Jannis and Luca. I don't think that they hold all that much validity. I think that Jannis has a better case than Luca. I just think that Jokich's efficiency, the multifaceted impact offensively, how conducive it is to great team offense, scaling just in a number of different ways. The fact that you cannot possibly replicate his impact when he's off the floor. Right, there are shot creators who can bring you a semblance of what Luca does when you have a Kyrie irving on the floor in Luke off it. There's nobody on the planet who comes close to bringing the offensive value in the way that Nikola Jelkic does. Makes him completely irreplaceable and one of the most impactful players in the history of this game. All right, that's it. I think that I got everything off my chest that I need to say about Yolkic. It's the off season, man, see offseason. We haven't had a chance to talk about the boy for a couple months at least, not like this. So again, when your floor is like still being the best player in the postseason, Nicole Yolkic was still the best player in this postseason logan when that's your floor, like in a lot of ways, even at a relative low point for him, he just cemented it crown because he is that dominant. All right, that's enough glazing. If you guys want more Yokic glazing, check out this channel, but also check it out for great basketball content. Check it out for great football content, check it out for trivia. We are bringing on guests at a volume that you've never seen and we're having a great time with them. That is on our YouTube channel. Please subscribe if you haven't, and if you want to continue to see our content, you can listen to the show across audio platforms. You can check us out across social TikTok, Instagram, at nerd, sash, Twitter at nerd Underscore Sesh to see our trivia clips. You can see some original content that we create for the platform, some clips from the show, all of that across our social If you want to buy that hat, right off Logan Camden's head, that very specific sweaty hat that has been in intimate contact with his bald head. You can do so at the Volume dot com for forty thousand US dollars and you can also buy it for one point two million type bought, because I know you guys were thinking, hold on, wait a second, wait a second, I don't know the conversion. It's about thirty to one, So one point two million TI bot for that hat right off of Logan's head, and you can join our discord if you want to just chat with the fellas. The link to that is that the link tree across our social media bios. So with that, as always appreciates you guys. I've been Carson Braber 01:37:19 Speaker 1: I have been Logan Candon and this was nerd Sash