התמלול המלא של A Conversation with Sprigg Lynn of Universal Floors, Inc

topic within the industry, regardless of what city you're in. 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:25.199 I definitely chat with contractors and we've got calls coming into our technical support line based around historic restoration. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.000 And really, I know that's been a lot of your focus. 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:34.159 I've been lucky enough to run around with you a little bit in the DC area and check out some of those job sites. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:46.800 You know, when you're working on historically significant spaces, are there certain guidelines or you know preservation standards that that you've come to know and that you and your team follow? 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:59.039 Well, the the interior the Department of Interior basically sets some standards, not so much what to do, but what not to do. 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:04.080 And there's a difference between historic restoration and preservation. 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:17.680 When you completely restore something, it's different the present uh preservation is basically stabilizing it, waxing it, uh protecting what we call the historic fabric. 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:26.560 It's like a fabric over the whole building, everything over the joists and the structure, you know, the hardware, the windows, the floors, the steps. 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:32.240 So they want to be least evasive to the historic fabric. 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:40.400 And you'll you'll start hearing these terms and academia talks about it, and it's it's it's good to know them. 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.479 So underneath the interior department is the Park Service. 00:03:44.719 --> 00:04:04.240 And the Park Service has a lot of means and methods, some of them are outdated, but I know the National Wood Flooring Association is kind of, along with you, committed to slowly moving towards some type of criteria or educational program for historic restoration preservation. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:11.360 We'll get into that, how to step your foot in there if you really don't know that particular part of the trade. 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:13.759 So we'll we'll talk about that a little bit later. 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:15.039 Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:20.079 And it's it's something as our technical guidelines continue to evolve. 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.959 Again, this is a topic that we've talked about. 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:33.040 I know just uh a couple months back at the NWFA expo in Orlando, you hosted a workshop based around that, correct? 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:37.439 Yeah, well, believe me, we're gonna improve the living heck out of that. 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:47.360 And and when you talk about guidelines, basically they're they're they want you to do things that might be reversible, not permanent. 00:04:47.519 --> 00:05:06.959 They would rather you to repair than replace, and they want you to do a less aggressive, passive procedure, and if it's sanding or but they're not opposed to using modern adhesives or or fasteners, which which is important. 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:22.319 I mean, you you don't have to ride a horse to work, you know, you you can get there with your truck, and we combine cutting technology modern with still old-fashioned means and methods with tools that my grandfather had. 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:23.040 Right. 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:32.879 And I think that's where the the preservation side of it comes in, you know, keeping those original features while integrating some of the modern techniques and repairs, right? 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:34.879 Yes, sir, yes, sir. 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:53.600 We we uh you know there they're honestly there's not like an all-out manual on how to do A, B, and C with this with wood floors, so they're gonna get your name through a recommendation of past uh performances or experience, and they basically have to trust you. 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:58.560 So they're also one of their criteria is to hire a qualified tradesperson. 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:15.600 So if you can if someone's out there listening, they want to get into it, and they do older floors, they gotta learn to document things, their means and methods, take a lot of pictures, and they can work their way into this business uh uh slowly. 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:21.040 Yeah, you know, historic restoration is not a speed race by no means. 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.839 If you're a production guy, stay production. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.319 It's gonna take you 10 times longer. 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:29.680 You sometimes you got to charge 10 times more. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.639 And you know what, Matt, you have one shot at it. 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:46.480 It isn't like if you if you cut a board and you mess it up, you can go to the store, go to the supply house and buy some more or tear it up and redo it. 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:47.920 You got one shot. 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:53.279 So, you know, the old saying, uh, what uh measure twice and cut once. 00:06:53.519 --> 00:07:03.120 We think the whole process out multiple times and talk to each other about what's the best way to approach it, and we go at it very slowly. 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:07.279 So that's that's a good good point to think about. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:08.560 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:31.279 And you know, along those same lines, you know, as Universal has evolved over the years, how have your methods changed or in some cases maybe stayed the same sprig when it comes to you know a lot of that intricate work where where, like you mentioned, um a mistake really changes the outcome of the of the overall job. 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:38.319 What types of techniques are you guys utilizing to preserve and really keep that historical authenticity? 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:44.560 Well, we we we do use a lot of hand tools because hand tools slow you down. 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:51.920 You know, you got a a saw is gonna cut fast, you got a hand saw, it's gonna

cut very slow, so you're gonna be very precise. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:08:17.839 But uh, and and sometimes when we we clean historic floors, you know, in the past, 1700s, all the way up in the 1800s, they'd take fine river sand and they'd sift it out, and they'd either put it in a sock or they would rub that on the floor and uh they'd clean it with a little soap and water, and and usually it's uh some type of lye soap, which is a mild bleach. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:25.920 So you get that that well, you know, they got food stains on the floor and they would scrub the floor, it's called scouring. 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:32.240 And uh sometimes we use Tampica brushes, which is a natural product out of Texas and Mexico. 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:43.679 And uh when you talk the language to these people that run these places, they they really like it and they see the enthusiasm you have. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:52.000 So, like there's certain looks that looks like um kind of a Scandinavian look, you know, with the ly bleach. 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:57.600 And to get that look, now it might be a highly high traffic area. 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.720 So, what can we do in a modern touch? 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:06.399 You know, there there's finishes out there that look like raw wood, their water base. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.759 So you're gonna emulate what they have there. 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:21.840 So it's a conversation you have to have with whoever's running the place, and you're trying to protect the floor, but you're not gonna get out there and get rubber sand and scour the floor, you know, once every month. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:28.000 I mean, they used to scrub down decks on ships so much that it they'd go all the way through the wood. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.559 So you got to be mindful. 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.440 You're you're trying to preserve the historic fabric. 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.000 You want to take as little off as possible. 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:40.080 But maintenance is a huge, huge thing with historic places. 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:41.440 Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:48.799 What type of speaking of maintenance, do they have what you would consider a maintenance schedule? 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:58.000 Are you getting back in spaces like a lot of residential contractors are, or is this a a one and done, and they've got crews on site that are trying to maintain some of the space? 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:02.159 Well, most of the historic places we maintain them. 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:10.720 We we tell them the the proper way to do it, and we have all the supplies, and we tell them see, a lot of people miss out. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:17.679 Sometimes we end up making more money years down the road by just maintaining what we did. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.759 So it's not a one-shot deal. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:21.840 And it keeps your name out there. 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:29.200 They know you by first name, and they'll call you if they have a tragedy, they're gonna call you, a flood, anything. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.919 But don't think just because you do a restoration, walk away from it. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:43.679 You you befriend the architect, you befriend the builder, the homeowner, and and and your name gets they're the silent salesperson right there. 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:46.720 So uh, and we don't mind maintaining it. 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:47.840 We we do it all the time. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:57.200 That big melon auditorium, we might surpass what we charged to do the the job by maintaining it and oiling it and fixing it. 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:58.720 Yeah, absolutely. 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:05.279 You know, speaking of of that particular job and really some other notable landmarks. 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:18.320 I mean, we can hear your passion and how that's been maintained over the years, but can you mention any of those other uh you know unique and interesting buildings that you and your team has found yourself in over the years? 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:24.639 Well, we we all know a lot of them because we've seen them on the news and you you see places like the Supreme Court. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:38.240 But what I really, really like is that it's really unknown that there's really like eight other oval offices, not oval per se, president's office. 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:41.919 Like during the war of 1812, they're burning down the White House. 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:46.159 The president had to leave, and he had to conduct business somewhere. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.600 So I'm proud to say that I think there's eight of them. 00:11:49.759 --> 00:12:05.919 I've done all eight of them from James Madison to uh Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, he'd go to the Lincoln Cottage and conduct business, Roosevelt, Harry Truman when they completely gutted the the the White House. 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:15.840 So I've worked in I I believe eight oval offices or or presidential offices, and it's two of them don't exist anymore. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.759 So I think that's kind of a a fun fun fact, you know. 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.360 If we always say if our floors could talk, what tales they could tell. 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:45.279 So uh you know what, Matt, when it comes down to it, and a floor guy's listening to this, you know, it's great to work in the White House or work in the vice president's house or the Oval Office, but at the end of the day, it's a piece of wood and it's a man or lady with their tools. 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:53.200 And you know, you kind of you get over the all of where you're working, and at the end of the day, you're doing floor work. 00:12:53.519 --> 00:13:14.000 So I just happen to be lucky to have more opportunity because we're in the nation's capital than somebody from uh I I met a gentleman at the last convention, uh, Dennis, he's from Macon, Georgia, and he's 50, and he just joined, self-taught, first

class mechanic. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:24.639 I talk to him all the time, like I've known him for 25 years, and he's like, I never really knew about this NWFA, and how and it's all about the connections. 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.440 I mean, these people are talking our language, and once they get in there and they meet you, it's fantastic. 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:42.399 Yeah, the power of the network is something that we're certainly focused on, whether that's members that have been in since the get-go or uh some of our newer members. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.879 You know, a lot of our newer members are younger people in the trade. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:53.519 It's something we talk about on this podcast a lot, is getting the younger generation involved. 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:58.799 And I think that what we're talking about today definitely falls in that category. 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.759 If if you're a younger guy, you're installing, sanding, and finishing. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:15.919 We touched on this earlier a little bit, but if you wouldn't mind expanding, Sprig, on how some of those guys, young or old, can get involved in preservation and some historic restoration. 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.000 Is that through the A and D, through the architect and design community? 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:21.519 Is that government agencies? 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:22.559 How do you get your foot? 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:32.480 What you got to do is study the lingo, study their language, historic fabric, non-aggressive, passive sanding. 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.320 And that's what they want to hear. 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:44.879 But it if every town, I don't care where you live, has a preservation society or historical society, and it's next to nothing to join them. 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:53.840 You should join them and get to know them because to get your foot in the door, and we've talked about it before, is Dutchman. 00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:06.159 And to define a Dutchman, you know, the the Dutch used to do a cheap repair, it's not so much supposed to disappear on a piece of furniture, but it was a functional repair. 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:13.039 And I've seen it at the uh AIA headquarters, the octagon house there in Washington. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.679 There's Dutchman there, there's Dutchman everywhere. 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:42.559 What they do is uh they route out, usually it's a broken shoulder or a pipe hole, and you route down maybe a quarter inch or less, and you install a fillet of period wood with basically the same grain and the same look, and you you glue it in there, and it's not supposed to go away because a lot of these floors you don't get rid of everything. 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:48.159 We got what we call uh uh memory marks, you know. 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.799 There's marks in there that's just telling a story. 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:59.279 You're not getting rid of all of it, but those Dutchmen, you can get in there, you can pre-finish your Dutchman and route it right in there. 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:27.279 We you basically need four pieces of wood to construct a rectangle or a square, and you can uh adhere it to the floor with a 23-gauge nail, barely even notice the nail going in there, and take a router bit with the upper bearing and route it down and put that piece in there, and you start looking at old places, and you'll start seeing Dutchmen everywhere. 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:33.360 I've seen Dutchmen with tin cans when they cut the tin can and and and put it on the floor. 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:44.080 Uh, but and there's Dutchmen in stone, so Dutchmen are everywhere, and it is an accepted method for the Interior Department and the Park Service. 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:49.840 So an easy way to get your foot in the door is take care of, do some Dutchman. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:04.960 And so when you remove old floor and the shoulders are all broken off, but there is some good usable wood between the tongue and the groove that you can make a whole mess of Dutchman out of. 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:06.319 So don't throw it away. 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:07.920 Or choose to reuse program. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.480 We take it up, denail it, save it. 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:15.119 Nothing easier to match old wood with old wood. 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.759 You don't have to fake the patina, you don't have to fake the color, you don't have to fake anything. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.240 You put it in there, and it's like you're way ahead of the game. 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:24.480 So save those old boards if you can. 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:40.880 Sounds sounds particularly valuable in some of this historic preservation work, but I think it plays across all types of space, whether it's commercial, residential, you know, saving products from demo, re-reusing them. 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.680 You talked a little bit, you just mentioned denailing wood. 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:49.279 What type of a process do you guys do to make sure you're holding on to some of that older material? 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:54.160 What's the process and storage look like for uh some of that old old lumber? 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:59.839 Well, uh, my dad said if you build enough uh build a big enough warehouse, you always fill it up. 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:09.119 So we fill it up to the gills, but when you need it, you're Johnny on the spot. 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:17.359 And it a lot of people recommend us just to do the restoration of the wood, and we say, Well, we can't do that, we have to do the whole project. 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.279 Uh, I'll tell you an interesting story. 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:33.599 One time at the Supreme Court, uh, we had to do a bunch of herringbone restoration, ripped and quartered white oak, and it's marked on the back clear light, so it was like really light wood. 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:41.759 But in our showroom, we had 1930s ripped and quartered wood,

and and they're like, Sprig, we need this thing done. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:45.359 And I was like, Holy cow, we're out of this antique wood. 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:47.680 I started looking at that showroom floor. 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:50.640 I came in there and yanked that thing up. 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.079 My father came in and said, Well, what in God's name are you doing? 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.079 I said, Well, we got to do this job. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.799 So we re now our our showroom is this big wide plank. 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.720 Before it was two and a quarter, uh, old antique uh ripped and quartered. 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.640 So you got to do what you gotta do sometimes. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.079 There you go, right? 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.400 Well, outside of reutilizing some of those old materials, you know, you had chatted a bit about the Dutchman. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.720 What other tools and and unique repair techniques are you seeing? 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:26.559 I I assume you guys are on your hands and knees with probably pigment pens and chisels and and other hand tools there, right? 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.880 Yeah, well, you know what? 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.000 If you're not an artist, you you gotta dabble into it a little bit. 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:46.160 So we have those little artist brushes and we use anything from latex paint, oil paint, to powder dyes that you add to a binder. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:53.200 And because some of these older floors in the cracks, you have old drywall, you have paint, you have discolors. 00:19:53.359 --> 00:20:03.519 So what we do is when we get to the staining stage, we walk around and look and see what catches our eye, and then we just start fowing it. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:13.200 And if we have old filler from 50 years ago and you're not digging it out, we we gotta match the color, the background, and fow it in there. 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:23.839 So it it sounds silly to some floor people, and I I show some of it on my social media, and and Matt, I never knew you got attacked on social media. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.759 Um, my my kids are like, Dad, dad, don't don't worry about it. 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.559 There's people there, that's their job to attack you. 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:49.519 I was like, okay, I'll quit explaining to myself, but at the end of the day, when you give that extra five, six, eight percent, when you touch up, uh like there's a shiner nail and you can't set it because it's so fragile, and but you can foe over it, you're you you people just love it. 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:58.799 It's it's uh so you know the the pins, uh there's a lot of manufacturers out there, and there's uh dyes, all kinds of things. 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:06.000 But whatever you do, just make it look natural and make it flow well and walk around and see what catches your eye. 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.160 That that's a main deal. 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:15.359 Yeah, I know a lot of those those repairs touch-ups um certainly get a lot of visibility on social media. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:20.000 I know you, of all people, are aware of those keyboard warriors out there, right? 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.599 That are quick to critique. 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:28.799 Um, that being said, I do want to touch on one specific project. 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:34.319 Uh, you know, one of the wood floor of the year categories is historic restoration. 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:39.200 2024, you brought that trophy home to Universal Floors. 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.759 Can you talk a little bit about that project? 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.720 Well, there's a uh organization called the Society of the Cincinnati. 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.440 It's an old old mansion. 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:51.759 Uh it's called Anderson House. 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.920 And the the man was a member of this organization, is usually the first son. 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:04.160 His Uh first son of an officer that served under George Washington. 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.400 And we happen to be a member of the club. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.359 Believe me, I'm the only floor guy that's a member of this club. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:21.039 There's like relatives of Knox that they named Fort Knox it after, and just like Edgar Allan Poe, the fourth and fifth are in there, and and just people that he, you know, like what's the floor guy? 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.279 I guess my fifth great grandfather, when he signed up, he he did me a favor. 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:31.759 But anyway, so they had a ballroom in there, and I kept saying, Look, I'll take care of it. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:40.000 And they brought in someone from Connecticut, and he was an expert in antiquis and all this stuff. 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:50.000 And but when he patched it originally, he patched it with new ripped and quartered oak, but he couldn't really fake that band patina. 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:57.200 So I told and I went through the gauntlet and I proved that I I can I can make this thing happen and sand it. 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:02.079 It was thin, but we sanded it very passively. 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:24.079 Uh the power drive is an excellent uh product to use over it with the with the cushion pads, and we we filled and fauxed and we and used that three-second CA glue, and and then we ended up topping off with a UV finish, and it didn't look fake. 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:32.240 It looked it was a real McCoy, 19 early 1900s, but they used the living heck out of it. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:24:09.200 It's a it's a wedding venue, a ballroom, but uh we're very you Matt, most of these jobs, everyone says it can't be done or tear it out, and then I I have to have a frank conversation on how far they want me to go with it and what's their budget, and tell them the the the do's and don'ts and the goods and the bads, and most of the time, uh I'm proudly to say

most of the people that bid it say call sprig because they don't want to deal with it, and we take every one of those jobs as like it. 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.880 That's what's so great about it, Matt. 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.160 It's like a challenge. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:18.000 Every one of them, there's no manual that says here, this particular floor, this is how to fix it. 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:23.519 We got to figure it out, and uh and we'll if we want to get paid. 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:24.799 Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.160 Speaking of challenges, what about specialty patterns, Brig? 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:39.359 You know, I think in the residential space, we've seen a big resurgence of of some of your more standard patterns, herringbone, chevron, etc. 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:50.160 You probably have worked with and see some pretty neat specialty patterns uh on the hill and and in some residential space, you know, Versailles, Marie Antoinette. 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:51.839 What are you running into out there? 00:24:52.319 --> 00:25:00.640 Yeah, all the classics, uh, and uh they're in proper proportions, and that's someone that has to learn about proportions. 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:08.160 You just don't make a giant herringbone, or you you gotta know what what aesthetically is pleasing. 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:14.079 And years ago, they they knew that, and but yeah, uh uh it's really making a surge back. 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:22.880 And I'm glad the National Wood Flooring Association is having schools with this because it used to be just a few isolated places. 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:28.960 There used to be a company used to be around called Kentucky Wood Floors, and they were like the only act in town for a long time. 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:36.799 But now every time you have a class, you just spun off 15-20 people that can make it. 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:45.920 It's incredible what what what the bar you remember years ago the NWF big thing was putting in a medallion with a template. 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:53.200 Now they're making the daggone medallions, they're making the parquet, and you can take that parquet as far as you want. 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:59.359 You could make it uh uh you could make it exactly the way it was. 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:17.519 Sometimes we make the frame absolutely perfectly square so we can lay these uh parquets, and then we make the inside kind of bastard sizes so we can put cracks in it, and it's all to make it look like whatever they want it to look like. 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:23.359 So if we're emulating something and we're repairing it, we got to emulate it with cracks. 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:32.720 The worst thing to do is put in something and it's all flat, straight, perfect, butted up, and then the other floor's got gaps and long legs. 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:33.279 Right. 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.079 Yeah, there's definitely an art to that aspect of it. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:46.880 And NWFA does have a precision patterns and medallions training uh coming up August, I believe it's the sixth and seventh at headquarters in St. 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:47.279 Louis. 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:56.960 It's something we do every year, and uh something that certainly has high demand uh from you know both beginner and experienced contractors alike. 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.680 So appreciate you chatting about that a bit. 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:17.759 Well, I I I tell you what, if if you can make it go to the class, and and if for some reason money's tight, we got scholarships out there, and people got to utilize it because we always say the the more you learn, the more you earn. 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.519 And and believe me, they can't take that talent from you. 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:36.799 You could move to Hooville, Texas, or Hawaii, and if you know how to do that and you walk into a shop or open your own shop, you just increase the level of how much uh people desire to have you do their work. 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.160 Because you know, at the end of the day, it's just cutting boards and fitting them together. 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:47.200 Uh, I don't want to make light of it, but once you do it, it's it's like bending wood. 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:57.839 Bending wood is pretty simplistic, but people like, wow, you're bending wood, you know, and and it's basically the same way they did it 100 years ago. 00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.759 We just have better glues. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:00.799 There you go, right? 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:07.440 Yeah, a lot of our techniques, our classic styles, classic training that that keeps it going. 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:13.519 One thing that has evolved, and you've touched on it a little bit, Sprig, is the sanding techniques. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:22.400 And when we're referring to preservation, I'm sure the last thing you want to do is burn through a floor that you cannot replace. 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:31.839 So, where does less aggressive sanding when you're not dropping a 10-inch drum on a floor come into play in in your day-to-day work? 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:38.400 Well, we rarely, rarely ever use a drum sander when it comes to sanding historic floors. 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:58.960 Uh, we we found that uh uh a machine kind of like the power drive with the with the proper cushions without the steels, and you go over it, and if you hit a low spot, that's where we're gonna hand scrape it out and use a uh a hand sander on it. 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:06.319 So we want we don't want a tabletop floor, we're doing the opposite of what everyone's been taught to do for years. 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.480 We want the onulations, we want the ups and downs. 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:19.759 And sometimes on stairs where you're coming around that banister and the bottom step is bellied out from 200 years of people walking there. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.079 They, if that's going to be

restored, they want to keep that in there. 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:28.559 And if it was replaced for some odd reason, they want us to put it back in there. 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:48.400 So uh, you know, it so you have to be very visual and look at what you're dealing with and take your time, slow it way down, and you'd be surprised how many architects, historic architects, don't know anything about passive, non-aggressive sanding. 00:29:48.640 --> 00:30:01.119 I I said if you guys if you bring somebody in here with a big machine, which is fine, if they want to take all the life off the floor, and they'll come out with trash cans full of saw dust. 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:07.359 So we we gotta be uh, you know, and we run those booster boxes, it's important. 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:14.240 A lot of people don't use them, but if you heat up those old old electricity in some of those houses, you could start a fire. 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.400 So it's best to have your own uh source of electricity. 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:20.000 Yeah, that's very true. 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.279 Very true. 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:28.079 Um, well, Spring, thank you so much for sharing, you know, your time and and your stories here. 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:35.359 Is there anything else you wanted to touch on personally before we wrap up our conversation this afternoon? 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:36.160 Yep. 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:45.279 If you're a floor company out there, uh fire fast and hire hire uh slow. 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:47.200 I like it. 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:47.920 I like it. 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:48.960 Great advice. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:57.680 You know, we wrap up every episode with two questions, one specific to you and one that I ask all of our guests. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:03.599 So before I get to that one, Sprig, let's let's get to ask you a question too, right? 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:04.559 Yeah, yes, sir. 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:05.680 You get one for me as well. 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:06.559 Okay, all right. 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.160 But uh let's uh let's talk about the farm. 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:21.039 Uh I know you outside of uh historic restoration and some of the things you're passionate about, we talked about today, you've got an active hobby as well. 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.680 Yeah, I I have two farms. 00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:37.839 And uh I grew up on a small farm, and my great grandfather was uh into farming, and uh it's in our blood twofold. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:43.279 One is it cuts my cuts my property tax in half, which is the financial reason. 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:50.079 We call them gentlemen farmers, so we don't have to totally you know the wood floor business doing well, the farm farms doing well. 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.519 But it's nice because I like working with with my hands. 00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:13.839 So when you come home and you're a lot of people playing golf or tennis, I played golf and tennis, but I prefer to

build a gate or take care of animals, and you know, we have turkeys and chickens and cattle and donkeys and you name it, but it's it's it's a fun, it's a big garden. 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:21.839 We we we would rather eat fresh food, and uh it it takes up time, but I I enjoy it, you know. 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:28.240 It's a work of love, and our other farm is a historic site, National Historic Landmark. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.880 There's only 2,600 of them in the United States. 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:35.279 Uh yeah, don't don't get it mixed up with a historic site. 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:43.599 There's like a hundred thousand, that means it's old place, but the National Historic Landmark means it had have significant changing in American history. 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:56.480 So I'm up there building period picket fences and smoke houses and uh researching about uh whitewash paint, and uh so I I get into it big time. 00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:57.200 Excellent. 00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.640 Well, thank you for sharing that. 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:03.279 You know, my neighbor behind me here has eight or nine chickens. 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:08.799 I don't know if you can quite hear them, but they're certainly pitching into our conversation today. 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:10.720 Make your racket back there. 00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:13.200 Um, all right, fire away streak. 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:23.680 Let's let's when did you first get interested in in wood floor, or was it Bono, or what what got you into this this career? 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.400 Yeah, I I stumbled into the trade. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:32.160 I I don't have one of those cool third generation stories like a lot of our industry friends do. 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.599 Uh I worked for the Colorado Rockies uh baseball team right out of school. 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:44.319 They still have a franchise here in Denver hanging on to that, uh, and and really wanted to get into that world of sports. 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:51.599 But luckily enough, after one year there, uh I fell into the industry with Bona. 00:33:52.079 --> 00:34:08.239 And it was a much different company over 20 years ago, where the the technical training department was doing a lot of the product testing, a lot of the sand and finish in and around residences and commercial areas up and down the front range here in Colorado. 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:24.320 Um so that's when I first got my hands dirty back in this is 2005 or so, and and since then it's really been a snowball downhill, and just so thankful and blessed that I've one learned a trade, can always fall back on a hands-on trade. 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:28.400 But number two, you alluded it to it earlier, is just this network. 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:36.159 You know, we've got uh thousands of uh very experienced tradesmen, but ultimately it's a small industry, right? 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:44.159 And and it's been just so excellent to grow relationships that begin professionally and then become a personal relationship. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.480 Um, and you certainly fall in that category. 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.719 So I appreciate you again sharing the time. 00:34:50.880 --> 00:35:00.639 I'm gonna throw this out there and uh and hopefully they do or don't blow up my phone, but 301-370-6851. 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.679 That's my cell number. 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.159 Believe me, I'd love to talk to whoever has a question. 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:11.440 If I can help them or direct them in the right direction, uh I might be on the other line, so call back on another time. 00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:16.559 But uh I appreciate you and and what what's your vision within WFA? 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:18.800 What where do you lean in towards? 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:25.119 Well, there's been a, as most people know and our listeners know, a lot of change within the association. 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:27.039 Uh, but it's an exciting time. 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:32.000 We're really evolving, moving in the right direction as membership grows. 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:35.440 It's really all about member support. 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:41.119 How can we be advocates for the hardwood flooring industry and for our members? 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:52.639 Whether that's training support, marketing support, you know, being on Capitol Hill just a few weeks ago, lobbying for the industry for hardwood flooring as a whole. 00:35:52.800 --> 00:36:00.639 So we're certainly moving in the right direction, thinking strategically and and very excited to uh to be a part of it all. 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:18.559 So as we had break one last thing is even with older ways, we still bring in, you know, sometimes we do 3D scanning of historic floors, so they have a digital record of it in case the worst ever happened. 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:26.079 You got LV, uh um LED, you got UV, you got lasers coming into the market. 00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:30.719 So I think all this cutting edge technology is going to bring the younger people in. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:31.679 Yeah, absolutely. 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:35.039 And AI is a part of it all from start to finish, right? 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.960 Design and execution. 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:44.800 So uh on an upcoming episode of the grain room, we will be talking about how AI is impacting our trade. 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.719 And it's it's time to get on board, right? 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:54.079 And make sure we're uh Yeah, you're you're you're getting ready to have uh AI uh for the NWFA, right? 00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:56.400 Where we can ask related questions. 00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:57.199 Correct. 00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:06.159 One of our our new additional technical support tools will be an AI related tool specific for our members. 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:15.039 So we're excited uh to launch that this what what are the tolerances for a uh glue-down floor, wood floor on a slab? 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.360 And they they could give you an answer quick. 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:18.239 Correct. 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.679 And how much do I owe you for throwing that one in there, sprig? 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:30.800 I appreciate that plug on some of our you can just give me a couple of those uh those uh tickets that you hand out when when we have our little gatherings. 00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:33.920 There you go, free soda or whatever. 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:34.719 Yes, sir. 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.199 Well, bless you and and thank you. 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:43.599 And I'm um I'm blessed to be on here, and uh I'm ready to come back anytime if you want to talk about something else. 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:44.800 Yes, sir, Sprague. 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.360 And before I let you go, I got one more for you. 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:57.119 Yes, this is the question that's that's been really interesting, and I think as we face some challenges in our industry, each of the guests on the grain room are asked the following question. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.159 Would love to get your your feedback as we wrap up here. 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:10.960 What's the most important focus for members of the Harvard flooring industry that really is going to allow our industry to continue to thrive as it has for so many decades? 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.360 It it's education. 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:19.920 I'm telling you, it's the making of the parquets, bending wood, all the knowledge. 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:35.199 Now you don't want to always uh be the library for people, you want to be the bookstore, they gotta invest in you and and sign a contract, but it's all that knowledge, it's it's incredible. 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.639 You know, as a kid growing up, my father would hand me the knock my handbook. 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:41.039 He said, This is all you need to know. 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:45.119 And he had some moisture meter, it looked like it came out of the Smithsonian Institution. 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:54.239 He goes, This is all you need, you don't need to go to those things, and then finally he turned around and said, Uh, you're right, this is this is a fantastic thing. 00:38:54.480 --> 00:39:09.199 But uh yeah, uh I'm telling you, if if you invested the money to join the National Wood Flooring Association, it's gonna come back a hundredfold if it just solved one problem for you. 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:10.079 Excellent. 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.639 But well, you enjoy your fourth July there, brother. 00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:15.360 Yes, sir. 00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:20.719 Happy fourth to you, and again, thanks for sharing your time and your stories, and we will certainly catch up soon. 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:21.679 Thank you, Spring. 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:23.360 You have a good day, buddy. 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:23.760 Bye. 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:24.559 You too. 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:25.440 See ya.