תעתיק 🔗
🎙️ The Good Grief Good God Show – S3/Ep12
Guest: Ian Morgan Cron
Ian Morgan Cron:
Hey.
Brad Warren:
Yeah.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Nice to meet you, and thanks. How long have you guys been married?
Brad Warren:
Thirty years.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Yeah.
Brad Warren:
Yeah. It’s amazing. I have to be honest. I used to hear people say, “Oh, it gets better all the time,” and think, “You are crazy.” Especially when I was an active alcoholic and we were married.
But truthfully, it’s better every year.
Ian Morgan Cron:
I think the thing I’ve noticed in my marriage is I always tell people I’ve been married to the same person like six or seven times. We’ve had six or seven marriages.
Brad Warren:
Yeah, like different phases?
Ian Morgan Cron:
Yeah. At the end of each, there’s like a renegotiation of the contract for the next season.
Brad Warren:
Right. Like an NFL veteran making it. Yeah.
Ian Morgan Cron:
But one of the things I’ve noticed in the last five years is I have this incredible gratitude. My wife is amazing.
Brad Warren:
Mine is too.
Ian Morgan Cron:
And getting more amazing… or maybe I’m just getting more clear-eyed.
Brad Warren:
It only took me 30 years, honey, but you’re pretty cool.
Brad Warren:
Ian Cron, thank you so much for doing this. I became familiar with you through our segment producer Lisa. She’s been trying to teach me the Enneagram for years, and I didn’t really get it.
Then she told me about your book The Fix. I bought it, read it, and loved it. I’ve been wondering for years when someone would write a 12-step book for non-alcoholics.
Where would you like to start?
Ian Morgan Cron:
Wow. Where would I like to start?
Well, I’m the product of an alcoholic family. My dad died from alcoholism when he was 63.
I grew up in that environment. I’m in recovery. I have a sibling in recovery. My dad’s two sisters died from alcoholism. I have cousins who died from overdoses.
A friend of mine, Ashley Cleveland, says, “I hail from an alcoholic dynasty.” That’s the best way I can describe my story.
Brad Warren:
Yeah.
Ian Morgan Cron:
That journey made me very self-reflective. I was always asking big questions:
Why are we here?
Who are we?
What’s the point?
Those questions led me into songwriting, writing novels, writing books. It was all me processing what it means to be on the human adventure.
And ultimately:
How do I take my suffering and leverage it for something beautiful?
When people ask my mission, I say:
I’m here to help people enter into a deeper conversation with the mystery of their own lives.
Brad Warren:
Man, I love that.
Ian Morgan Cron:
I have no illusions about becoming a finished symphony anytime soon. I’m going out on the four chord, not the one.
Brad Warren:
Yeah, not fully resolved.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Exactly.
Brad Warren:
Tell me about your recovery journey.
Ian Morgan Cron:
My last drink was 1987. I went to 12-step meetings for a couple years, then stopped.
For decades, I was abstinent but not in recovery. I went to graduate school, became a psychotherapist, an Episcopal priest, and a writer.
Then in 2019–2020, I relapsed—not on alcohol, but prescription medications: Adderall, Xanax, Klonopin.
That led to treatment and then fully committing to a 12-step life.
Brad Warren:
So for decades, you were sober but not in recovery?
Ian Morgan Cron:
Yes.
Brad Warren:
That sounds terrifying.
Ian Morgan Cron:
It’s a little puzzling. But I had support systems—church, therapy, community.
Still, there’s a part of me that, if let out of the cage, can take over.
Brad Warren:
Yeah.
Ian Morgan Cron:
That relapse showed me I needed a deeper solution.
Brad Warren:
Let’s shift. Give me the seventh-grade version of the Enneagram.
Ian Morgan Cron:
The Enneagram is a personality system with nine types.
Each person adopts one type in childhood as a way to feel safe and navigate relationships.
Personality is simply how you show up for life—patterns of thinking, feeling, and behaving.
But the key is this:
Each type has an unconscious motivation.
It doesn’t just tell you what you do.
It tells you why you do it.
Brad Warren:
That’s the part that matters.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Exactly. And the goal is self-awareness—not to excuse behavior, but to become the healthiest version of yourself.
Brad Warren:
Yeah, not “that’s just how I am.”
Ian Morgan Cron:
Right. Never use your type as an excuse for crappy behavior.
(Condensed Enneagram Overview Section)
Ian Morgan Cron:
Ones: Need to be good, right, and perfect
Twos: Need to be loved and appreciated
Threes: Need to succeed and appear successful
Fours: Need to be unique and special
Fives: Need to understand and know
Sixes: Need safety and security
Sevens: Need to avoid pain and stay happy
Eights: Need control and strength
Nines: Need peace and harmony
Each type has strengths and struggles.
And we all have all nine types in us—but one dominates.
Brad Warren:
I see myself in multiple.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Everyone does. That’s why motivation matters more than traits.
(Transition to 12 Steps + Book)
Brad Warren:
Let’s talk about your book The Fix.
Ian Morgan Cron:
The subtitle is:
“How the 12 Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down and Out, and Everyone in Between.”
It’s basically the 12 steps for everyone.
Brad Warren:
I’ve always believed that.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Me too. The steps have transformed millions of lives.
And I thought:
Why not democratize them?
You don’t have to be an addict to benefit.
Brad Warren:
100%.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Because here’s the truth:
Everyone is addicted to something.
Maybe not substances—but success, control, approval, perfectionism, distraction.
Brad Warren:
Absolutely.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Addiction is the human longing for God misdirected toward something else.
Brad Warren:
That’s powerful.
Ian Morgan Cron:
And the 12 steps address that.
They aren’t about stopping drinking.
They’re about spiritual awakening.
Brad Warren:
Yes.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Steps 1–3: Peace with God
Steps 4–7: Peace with yourself
Steps 8–9: Peace with others
Steps 10–12: Maintain it
Brad Warren:
That’s it.
Ian Morgan Cron:
We’re all just trying to feel whole.
Brad Warren:
That’s my answer every time—peace.
Ian Morgan Cron:
Exactly.
We’re all fractions trying to become whole numbers.
(Closing Reflection)
Brad Warren:
I wouldn’t trade recovery for anything.
Even the suffering that got me here—because of what it gave me.
Ian Morgan Cron:
That’s the paradox.
The suffering becomes the doorway.
Brad Warren:
Before we go, I always ask this:
What’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to you—and what’s the best thing that came out of it?
(Conversation continues…)