התמלול המלא של Episode #136 Featuring Dr. Dave Rabin Part 2! Everyone's FAVORITE NEUROSCIENTIST! "A Simple Guide to Being Alive"

Our treatments stabilize people. And they stabilize 71 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:08.039 people for life, but people are still sick. And so, 72 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:10.419 in part, that's why we've seen, when you look at 73 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:13.360 the statistics for mental illness around the world, but especially 74 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.310 in the U.S. and the Western world, mental illness rates 75 00:04:16.529 --> 00:04:20.129 have skyrocketed over the last 10 years. Addiction rates have 76 00:04:20.149 --> 00:04:23.250 skyrocketed over the last 10 years. And they're not getting better. 77 00:04:23.790 --> 00:04:27.389 They're getting much worse every year. Which makes me think, 78 00:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.860 and many of my colleagues think, well, maybe we need 79 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.980 to be asking different questions about how we're approaching this, right? 80 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:39.120 Maybe there are other ways to approach mental illness, not from, 81 00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:43.259 let's just stabilize somebody, but let's get to the root cause. 82 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.100 So when I started to dive into the root cause, 83 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.430 I realized that whether you look at Western medicine and 84 00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:52.889 what we were seeing in the clinic in our patients, 85 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:56.129 or when I started to look at where we're Western 86 00:04:56.149 --> 00:04:59.769 medicine had gaps, like in the Eastern and tribal medicine 87 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:05.980 approaches around breathwork, meditation, yoga, mindfulness, plant medicine, and psychedelic medicine, 88 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:11.199 I realized that these are all different disciplines that are 89 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:16.920 approaching life from different angles, but through the different lenses, right? 90 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:19.920 But we're looking at the same thing. When you, well, 91 00:05:20.139 --> 00:05:21.920 taking a step back, when you look at trying to 92 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:24.839 solve these really complex problems of mental illness, that are 93 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.240 epidemic worldwide now, and you look at trying to solve 94 00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:30.519 those problems from just a Western lens or just an 95 00:05:30.579 --> 00:05:34.870 Eastern or tribal lens, it seems really complicated. People are confused. 96 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:38.310 People don't get better. But when you actually look at 97 00:05:39.310 --> 00:05:42.829 the field taking like a 30,000 foot view and trying 98 00:05:42.850 --> 00:05:44.709 to figure out, well, what do these different disciplines have 99 00:05:44.750 --> 00:05:47.750 in common, right? What is Western medicine in common with 100 00:05:47.829 --> 00:05:51.230 Eastern and tribal medicine? And how are they all, how 101 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:54.170 can they all come together? you start to actually be 102 00:05:54.209 --> 00:05:57.509 able to put the puzzle pieces

together into the solution 103 00:05:57.610 --> 00:06:00.209 and solve the puzzle because you have all the pieces. 104 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:03.129 So I started to look outside the box and study 105 00:06:03.230 --> 00:06:05.709 other traditions in the way they, that were much older 106 00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:08.470 than Western medicine. And long story short, I just realized 107 00:06:08.509 --> 00:06:12.579 that when you look at the whole view of life 108 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:18.060 and mental illness and ease and disease, and you try to, 109 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:22.120 and you look at it from the three perspectives together, Eastern, Western, 110 00:06:22.139 --> 00:06:26.009 and tribal medicine, with all the pieces, the solutions are 111 00:06:26.069 --> 00:06:29.139 actually a lot more simple than we thought. And so 112 00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:31.899 seeing that we weren't getting taught this in medical school 113 00:06:31.939 --> 00:06:34.819 and none of my medical colleagues and practitioners that I 114 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:37.480 worked with were getting taught this stuff, I just realized, 115 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:39.160 you know, I need to write this book. Like I 116 00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:42.639 need to put all these pieces together for people so 117 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.250 that we can have a simple guide that actually pulls 118 00:06:46.269 --> 00:06:48.870 from all these different disciplines and gives people all the 119 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:50.649 pieces they need to solve this puzzle on their own. 120 00:06:51.100 --> 00:06:55.040 helping kind of reframe this as actually as simple as 121 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.620 it really is, which is really getting back to childhood 122 00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:04.100 wonder and joy, innocence, play, awe, imagination, intuition, like spirituality, 123 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.069 all the good stuff that has been talked about for 124 00:07:07.250 --> 00:07:10.470 thousands of years by Eastern and tribal cultures, we're now 125 00:07:10.589 --> 00:07:14.189 finally proving in Western medicine and Western science are real. 126 00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:16.990 And not only are they real, they change our biology, 127 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:20.649 they extend our longevity, they increase our heart rate variability. 128 00:07:21.149 --> 00:07:24.029 They do all the things that people are injecting stem 129 00:07:24.050 --> 00:07:27.180 cells and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for therapies for. 130 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:30.459 And if you could get the same benefits with re-embracing 131 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.779 childhood wonder and play for free, people should probably know that. 132 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:35.759 So that's kind of the thesis of the book. 133 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:41.160 I spent so much time only focusing on fitness, nutrition, 134 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.819 and I never understood how important and how dominating the 135 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:50.100 mind is over that, over everything. And what I'm coming 136 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.279 to find is the more deeper that I dig and 137 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:57.540 the more intellectual people that I talk to, even the 138 00:07:57.579 --> 00:07:59.500 guys that like what I'm going to do now that 139 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:02.060 I haven't really gotten into you with, he's a chiropractor, 140 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.699 but he's doing like nervous system work and resets and 141 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.439 things that go in deep because without doing that, all 142 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:09.800 these other things don't work. 143 00:08:10.540 --> 00:08:12.620 Like the nervous system has to be in a state 144 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.220 that's receptive to what we're offering it. 145 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.410 So the alignment's off and if the alignment's off, It 146 00:08:18.509 --> 00:08:20.790 seems to me, now you tell me, because I do 147 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:23.790 believe in the mind-body connection, and I don't want to 148 00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:25.870 say that one is more important than the other, but 149 00:08:25.949 --> 00:08:28.149 I swear to you, the more I look at it, 150 00:08:28.389 --> 00:08:31.579 and I say this because now it's just progressed month 151 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.960 after month after month after month, that the mind is 152 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.960 the more dominant part of this, that it really is 153 00:08:38.019 --> 00:08:42.120 the key to getting full health alignment. I don't think 154 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:43.860 that if you're not there, you're ever going to be 155 00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:46.200 fully aligned, no matter what you do, and it's too 156 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:49.299 dominant over the other aspects. You tell me what you think. 157 00:08:49.419 --> 00:08:54.870 I mean, it's... So, yes, it is... The mind is dominant, right? 158 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:59.309 Because the mind is where our ego lives. And when 159 00:08:59.409 --> 00:09:05.870 we're trained into a state of self-protection because we believe 160 00:09:05.909 --> 00:09:09.769 the world around us is unsafe for any reason, then 161 00:09:09.789 --> 00:09:13.779 the mind... The grip of the mind takes hold. And... 162 00:09:15.230 --> 00:09:18.169 puts our bodies into a state where we resist change 163 00:09:18.269 --> 00:09:22.509 and learning. And so this is actually what I call 164 00:09:22.549 --> 00:09:25.970 in the book Dr. Dave's mind blowers, which are these 165 00:09:26.509 --> 00:09:32.169 very simple concepts that have been taught incorrectly in modern education. 166 00:09:32.379 --> 00:09:34.600 And by modern education, I mean for the last couple 167 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:39.200 hundred years that we still teach these incorrectly. Like, for instance, 168 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:41.500 we teach that the mind and the body are disconnected. 169 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.629 But we know, and separate, but we know

definitively that 170 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:48.269 if you are mentally and emotionally ill for an extended 171 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:50.120 period of time and you don't do anything about it, 172 00:09:50.409 --> 00:09:51.850 you do become physically ill. 173 00:09:51.909 --> 00:09:52.230 Oh, yeah. 174 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:54.610 We know that stress increases your heart rate and your 175 00:09:54.629 --> 00:09:58.210 blood pressure and your breath rate. And we know that 176 00:09:58.269 --> 00:10:01.440 when you slow your breath rate intentionally. by choice, your 177 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:03.879 heart rate comes down and your thoughts slow down and 178 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:06.639 you start to feel better within 90 to 120 seconds. 179 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:12.679 So there's very clearly a mind-body intimate, irrevocable connection, right? 180 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:18.230 And if we deny that at the core, then... we 181 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:23.259 lose out on the opportunity to engage that relationship and 182 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:27.460 take the wheel, right? We let the environment steer what, 183 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.120 like dictate what happens to us rather than us saying, oh, well, 184 00:10:31.299 --> 00:10:33.940 I actually have a say in the outcome because I 185 00:10:34.220 --> 00:10:37.509 can change my mind. Yeah. Right? Like I have the 186 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:42.230 power to change my mind. That is incredible power. It's 187 00:10:42.309 --> 00:10:45.809 like potentially unlimited power when you realize that the way 188 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:51.129 we choose words for instance actually dictates our reality because 189 00:10:51.190 --> 00:10:55.190 our words apply meaning to our existence right and so 190 00:10:55.450 --> 00:10:57.850 so that's a so that's like a core piece is 191 00:10:57.929 --> 00:11:01.110 that you know like going back to what you're saying 192 00:11:01.190 --> 00:11:04.649 that the that the mind and the body are connected 193 00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:10.179 so that if we are taught for instance that that 194 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.320 the world around us is unsafe growing up because we're 195 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.230 exposed to extreme hardship, lack of support from our parents 196 00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:20.990 or our role models when we're growing up and facing challenges, 197 00:11:21.289 --> 00:11:24.129 people who tell us many times, like we've all experienced, like, 198 00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:26.919 what's wrong with you that you did that thing? What's 199 00:11:27.019 --> 00:11:29.740 wrong with you that that happened to you? And when 200 00:11:29.779 --> 00:11:32.159 you hear that from a role model, it all of 201 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:35.240 a sudden makes us think that we can't trust ourselves 202 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:38.340 to keep ourselves safe. And that's the core of trauma. 203 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:42.320 It's actually like adopting a victim mindset, like that's a 204 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:46.460 It's like a broken bone. It's a fractured self-trust. If 205 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:49.240 somebody I respect tells me that I did something wrong, 206 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:53.100 that I couldn't keep myself safe, and that I caused 207 00:11:53.139 --> 00:11:56.000 a certain problem and I'm at fault, then now, rather 208 00:11:56.019 --> 00:11:59.110 than overcoming the challenge I just had with support, I 209 00:11:59.149 --> 00:12:02.490 feel guilt and shame around that situation, right? And then 210 00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:05.429 that fractures my trust in myself and my ability to 211 00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:09.909 keep myself safe. So when that happens, psychologically, the biological 212 00:12:10.110 --> 00:12:13.049 reflection of that is my amygdala... This fear center in 213 00:12:13.169 --> 00:12:15.500 my brain that goes back to ancient, we call the 214 00:12:15.509 --> 00:12:18.460 reptilian brain, right? It goes back to ancient reptiles. That's 215 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.559 there to protect us from threat and keep us alive, 216 00:12:21.940 --> 00:12:25.200 starts to fire off all the time because it thinks 217 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.190 that we are always under threat. And when we're under threat, 218 00:12:29.690 --> 00:12:32.230 we can't let the body lead. We can't let our 219 00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:35.330 intuition lead because we don't trust our intuition anymore. And 220 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:38.500 coming back to our bodies and coming back to our intuition, 221 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.940 which is generally knows what's right and what's true, where 222 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.720 our minds are often doubting what's right and what's true 223 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.919 and questioning and judging, which is useful in many circumstances, 224 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.460 but we, but it often should not lead. The mind 225 00:12:53.059 --> 00:12:57.059 is meant to follow the body and intuition should lead. 226 00:12:57.659 --> 00:13:01.320 And that's something that's also very, very much not taught well. 227 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:04.940 When we learn to not trust our bodies, then the 228 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:07.899 fear control of the mind and the amygdala leads to 229 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:11.690 And then that takes such a firm grip and hold 230 00:13:11.990 --> 00:13:16.610 on us that we end up effectively doubting every single 231 00:13:16.649 --> 00:13:19.149 experience we have and not being able to be present. 232 00:13:19.730 --> 00:13:24.409 So to your point, yeah, in modern day, the grip 233 00:13:24.429 --> 00:13:28.809 of the mind has been trained to, in this ego-dominant state, 234 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:32.590 to protect us. It's not trying to hurt us though, right? 235 00:13:32.690 --> 00:13:33.889 That's the thing that I think a lot of people 236 00:13:34.509 --> 00:13:37.600 don't understand is like, It's like our minds are not 237 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.500 trying to

hurt us. They're not trying to make our 238 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:43.419 lives hard. They're just trying to protect us because they 239 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:47.419 perceive that there is danger, even though there isn't actually danger. 240 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.019 And so in the book, I really help break this 241 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:53.539 down from an evolutionary perspective where people can understand this 242 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.779 part of the brain, the amygdala, evolved not just in us, 243 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.870 but in all animals dating back to ancient reptiles to 244 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:05.889 really protect us from four things. Lack of air. And 245 00:14:06.049 --> 00:14:08.509 in order of what will kill us first, right? And fastest, 246 00:14:08.570 --> 00:14:12.009 lack of air, lack of physical safety and shelter, lack 247 00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:14.200 of water and lack of food. Those are the four 248 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.580 things that will kill us faster than anything else. Then 249 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.259 the other two are lack of sleep and lack of 250 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:24.460 social connection to our community. So when those first four 251 00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:26.980 issues are checked off, you can say, I have all 252 00:14:27.019 --> 00:14:29.809 these things, right? I have physical safety, I have air, 253 00:14:29.850 --> 00:14:32.940 I have water, I have food. Then... When we run 254 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.399 that checklist, we can actually shut down the amygdala. We 255 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.879 can say, these boxes are checked. I can take a 256 00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:42.350 deep breath right now and come back into my body 257 00:14:42.409 --> 00:14:45.690 knowing my body's safe. And then you reset. And it's 258 00:14:45.750 --> 00:14:49.070 just that simple. But again, if we don't learn how 259 00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:52.629 to do that, those skills just become elusive to us. 260 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:55.649 We forget how to come back to the body. So 261 00:14:55.669 --> 00:14:58.129 a couple thoughts that I had there while you were talking. 262 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.120 So if you look at it from this point of view, 263 00:15:02.350 --> 00:15:06.250 If you get injured and you recover and you get 264 00:15:06.330 --> 00:15:08.970 over it, let's just say you get a decently bad 265 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:13.049 injury six months, right? But if you get verbally injured, 266 00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:17.080 that can last a lifetime. And I'm correlating this in 267 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:19.740 the difference between mind and body and why I feel 268 00:15:19.750 --> 00:15:22.080 like the mind is more dominant. Then think about this. 269 00:15:22.899 --> 00:15:25.279 If I'm running a marathon or a race or something 270 00:15:25.299 --> 00:15:29.000 that's so just difficult, my mind can do one of 271 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:32.549 two things. you can't do this, stop, or you can 272

00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.340 do this, run it, control everything that we're able to do. 273 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:37.360 And that's part of the reason why I'm understanding. 274 00:15:38.019 --> 00:15:39.100 Okay. Yes. 275 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.019 I'm not saying that you, of course we want to 276 00:15:42.059 --> 00:15:44.059 address the health side of the fitness and the nutrition. 277 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.509 Obviously that goes without saying, but you're not going to 278 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:50.450 be able to do it. You just not, if this 279 00:15:50.549 --> 00:15:54.019 isn't done first. Now, vice versa, if your mind's right, 280 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:55.919 you can always go and do the other stuff. 281 00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:58.039 Yeah. You can. It doesn't mean you're going to, but 282 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.500 you can. Right. The other way, you just can't. 283 00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:00.960 Right. 284 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:06.409 It's impossible. Yeah. So it's just dawned on me right now. Hallelujah. Yeah. Yeah, 285 00:16:06.450 --> 00:16:09.570 it's all about alignment, right? It's about harmony. It's about 286 00:16:09.929 --> 00:16:13.669 the mind and the body working together, where they're both listening. 287 00:16:13.690 --> 00:16:19.419 There's a clear, like, as the... Amazonian people talk about 288 00:16:19.470 --> 00:16:22.850 that indigenous people and even Eastern traditions, they talk about 289 00:16:23.009 --> 00:16:27.929 clear energy flow back and forth, right? So it's about 290 00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:32.570 clear lines of communication and alignment and harmony. So not 291 00:16:33.350 --> 00:16:37.090 a battle, not a fight between this and this, it's 292 00:16:37.490 --> 00:16:41.629 clear communication flow between this and this, between mind and heart, 293 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:45.159 mind and body. And when those channels are open, then 294 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.059 when the body sends signals to the mind, the mind 295 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.289 can understand them without judging them first. It can just listen. 296 00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:55.490 And when the mind listens to those signals without judgment, 297 00:16:55.529 --> 00:16:58.190 it can actually understand what they are by feeling them 298 00:16:58.289 --> 00:17:01.230 rather than by shutting them down before feeling them. If 299 00:17:01.269 --> 00:17:04.990 we don't feel feelings, which are just signals they're not 300 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:08.819 good or bad, then those feelings get stuck in the 301 00:17:08.859 --> 00:17:11.730 body and then they can't get out. And they just 302 00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:14.029 keep knocking at the mind being like, hey, I need 303 00:17:14.049 --> 00:17:15.819 you to feel me. I need you to feel me. 304 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:18.150 And when you don't feel them, they're like children. They 305 00:17:18.170 --> 00:17:21.259 just knock louder. They scream louder. Like, I need you 306 00:17:21.279 -->

00:17:23.839 to feel me. I'm trying to send a message to you. Like, 307 00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:27.779 answer the damn phone. Right. And it just keep calling. Yeah. 308 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:32.230 And we call that anxiety. Right. So like that is 309 00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:37.450 what causes restlessness. That's what causes chronic anxiety and chronic stress. 310 00:17:37.950 --> 00:17:41.210 is not paying attention to things that are outside of 311 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:46.019 our control. It's also dissonance between mind and body, not harmony. 312 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:50.259 Harmony means signal of emotion comes in and we don't 313 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.099 shut it down or resist it because we think we're 314 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:55.059 not supposed to feel it because it's uncomfortable or because 315 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.059 we were told we're not supposed to feel it. We 316 00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.400 just feel it for what it is. And guess what? 317 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.539 It passes by in 90 to 120 seconds and then 318 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.039 you can take the message that you were supposed to 319 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:07.740 be sending to us, understand what that is, and learn 320 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.079 from it and feeling goes away and you move on 321 00:18:10.099 --> 00:18:12.539 to the next thing. Right. But if, if we are 322 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:18.150 resist that and don't allow the feeling to happen, then 323 00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:20.730 we're creating dissonance between the mind and the body. And 324 00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:24.430 it's effectively like an orchestra playing out of tune and 325 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:28.529 out of time. It sounds horrible and it feels horrible. 326 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:32.809 And so, so that, so that is kind of the metaphor, 327 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:34.789 best metaphor that I found for like how to think 328 00:18:34.849 --> 00:18:39.380 about what we're talking about, which is, It's alignment, it's balance, 329 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.980 it's being in tune and in time together like an orchestra, 330 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:46.390 not out of tune, because out of tune sounds horrible. 331 00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:48.569 Let me ask you a question then, and this is 332 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:51.789 like a personal question about myself. I'm going to correlate 333 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:55.109 this with what you're saying. So in my heart, like 334 00:18:55.150 --> 00:18:59.609 I have this amount of love that's like abounding, just 335 00:19:00.190 --> 00:19:04.390 full of compassion and full of care and sometimes just 336 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.109 maybe even too soft to a point for others. But 337 00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:11.609 I go through these points in time where it's there, 338 00:19:12.589 --> 00:19:15.690 but I can't let it out. And I don't know why. 339 00:19:15.849 --> 00:19:18.890 It's not like I'm sitting here going, Dylan, don't let 340 00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:22.589 it out. But something in my head is not allowing it. 341 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.059 So my question is to correlate with what you're asking, 342 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.160 because I feel like it falls into line there. What 343 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:29.059 would one, because I'm sure there's plenty of people that 344 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.400 go through the same thing. And I like to victimize 345 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.819 myself here to people and tell people how the problems 346 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:35.140 I have. 347 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:37.720 But what would you say your vulnerability? Well, yeah, man shit. 348 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.990 I've got a lot of it. So what causes that? Like, 349 00:19:42.069 --> 00:19:44.910 what is the underlying issue there? Is it different for 350 00:19:44.950 --> 00:19:46.670 everybody or is it something that happened? 351 00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:51.180 I mean, think about it like yin and yang, right? Like, 352 00:19:51.319 --> 00:20:02.279 yin is cool, feminine, receptive, sensitive. Yang is hot, masculine, active, doing, right? 353 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.839 And in the yin-yang, those are constantly in balance with 354 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:06.299 each other. So. 355 00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:10.690 When we're taught growing up as young men, and I'm 356 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:14.049 sure you experienced this the way I experienced it, which 357 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:17.970 is when we express sensitivity as young men, what was 358 00:20:18.019 --> 00:20:21.539 the first thing as a young man that you were told? Well, 359 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:26.079 it's weak. Exactly. So you internalize that. I internalize that. 360 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.380 Every single young man in the world that grows up 361 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:34.450 in Western, or at least in Western culture, internalizes this 362 00:20:34.509 --> 00:20:38.109 concept that being sensitive which is really just having a 363 00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:42.069 balanced yin-yang, because the yin-yang is about balance. It's not about, 364 00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:44.029 it exists in all of us, right? There's masculine and 365 00:20:44.049 --> 00:20:47.950 feminine energy in all of us. Eastern tradition around them. 366 00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:51.170 It's not like because we're born men, we're just yang. No, 367 00:20:51.450 --> 00:20:55.849 we are physically male, but we have yin and yang 368 00:20:55.910 --> 00:20:57.890 in us, just like women have yin and yang in them. 369 00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:00.849 And so the energies balance each other. So if we're 370 00:21:00.910 --> 00:21:06.980 taught expressing sensitivity is weak or not okay, then... we 371 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.779 shut it down. So when we start to feel that 372 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.000 sensitivity come up and we start to feel those powerful 373 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.309 emotions in our bodies and our hearts, at any time, 374 00:21:16.410 -->

00:21:19.369 even when it normally would be safe to express them, 375 00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:22.309 there's a part of us that has been trained now 376 00:21:22.410 --> 00:21:26.029 for decades that says, it's not okay to express that 377 00:21:26.089 --> 00:21:30.980 you're a man, be a man, right? Don't show that weakness. 378 00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:34.839 But it's not weakness, right? And so do you want 379 00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:37.450 to necessarily start shedding tears in the middle of a 380 00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:41.549 board meeting? No. And there are certain situations where it's 381 00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:45.200 totally okay to say, You know, I'm feeling really sensitive 382 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.339 right now, but this isn't the right time. But to 383 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.140 come back to it later, right, to make time, to 384 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:53.349 come back to it later and restore the balance, because 385 00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:56.109 maybe in that board meeting you need more yang. Maybe 386 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:57.950 when you come back after the board meeting and you're 387 00:21:57.970 --> 00:22:00.329 chilling in your home with your family or by yourself 388 00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.390 with your pets or at the beach, you can bring 389 00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:04.589 that yin out again. Right. Right. And so it's all 390 00:22:04.630 --> 00:22:08.250 about just this dynamic understanding, this dynamic balance and then 391 00:22:08.430 --> 00:22:08.910 balancing it. 392 00:22:09.529 --> 00:22:09.809 Right. 393 00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:13.009 And if we don't acknowledge that none of it is weak, 394 00:22:13.309 --> 00:22:17.109 it's actually weak to shut it down. Right. It's the 395 00:22:17.150 --> 00:22:20.609 rejection of the balance is weakness. And that's what creates weakness. 396 00:22:20.710 --> 00:22:24.670 Because when we reject the balance, if we say like 397 00:22:24.750 --> 00:22:27.450 my sensitive parts are weak, I won't allow them to 398 00:22:27.470 --> 00:22:32.099 come out ever. Right. Then those sensitive parts start to 399 00:22:32.140 --> 00:22:34.480 try to take over the system because they're like, why 400 00:22:34.539 --> 00:22:38.200 are you ignoring me? I'm part of you. And then 401 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:42.740 they start to become manipulative and overbearing and start to 402 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:47.180 try to control and take over the situation in different 403 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.069 ways because they're not allowed to express themselves. And all 404 00:22:51.089 --> 00:22:53.369 of our parts need to express themselves and feel safe 405 00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:56.750 within the whole. So that's actually a big part of 406 00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:59.809 why we developed Apollo because when we talk about this stuff, 407 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:02.150 it's really important to talk about, but we call that 408 00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.059 top-down learning. This is another thing that's really poorly taught 409 00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:06.519 that I talk about at the beginning of the book. 410 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.500 is that there are two ways we learn, right? There's 411 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:12.779 people listening to this podcast and reading the book and 412 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:15.329 reading the books we're learning in school and all that. 413 00:23:15.349 --> 00:23:21.549 And that's top-down learning, cognitive brain-to-body. Understanding through the brain, 414 00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:23.890 we try to pass that down to the body through practice. 415 00:23:24.390 --> 00:23:27.950 Then there's the other kind of learning that is equally important, 416 00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:31.069 if not on speaking of balance, right? Which is body-first learning, 417 00:23:31.210 --> 00:23:34.849 bottom-up experiential learning. Watching somebody do something and then trying 418 00:23:34.869 --> 00:23:38.490 to imitate it. Feeling a feeling and then trying to 419 00:23:39.130 --> 00:23:43.289 recreate that feeling based on feeling, not based on understanding. 420 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.240 Have you ever tried to ride a bike by reading 421 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.569 an instruction manual? Negative. Right? How hard would that be? 422 00:23:48.579 --> 00:23:51.140 It would be so hard. Right. Or to play any 423 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.720 sport by reading an instruction manual. Like, we just don't 424 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.640 do that. Not much of an instruction manual guy. Exactly. 425 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.980 But you're still learning. Right. And you're mastering because your 426 00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:04.880 body's leading the learning in those cases. And so we 427 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:08.640 learn everything by top-down and bottom-up together. I see. That's 428 00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:12.779 how we maximize learning. That's very poorly taught. Right. We're 429 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.240 missing 50% when we only try to learn by understanding 430 00:24:16.289 --> 00:24:19.769 and not from the body. So Apollo is the bottom-up 431 00:24:19.849 --> 00:24:24.750 tool that teaches the body how to feel safe with 432 00:24:24.809 --> 00:24:27.009 yin and yang at the same time, how to feel 433 00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:30.349 safe being sensitive, how to feel safe being dominant, how 434 00:24:30.369 --> 00:24:34.930 to feel safe in all these different situations where it's appropriate, right? 435 00:24:35.349 --> 00:24:38.490 And then how to feel safe and not weak expressing 436 00:24:38.549 --> 00:24:42.039 ourselves and expressing and feeling our emotions And then the 437 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:44.819 book is the top down, which is the explanation of 438 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.480 how it all works. But we need both. And so 439 00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:52.680 the body always needs its own instructions. And so it's really, 440 00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:55.960 when we think about learning in general, aside from like 441

00:24:56.059 --> 00:24:58.160 Apollo in the book, just learning in general, it's really 442 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:01.299 about balance, similar to what we're talking about with feeling. 443 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.759 And so that's why, because of what we're taught growing 444 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.779 up as young men in this culture, that's effectively why 445 00:25:07.819 --> 00:25:09.420 we shut a lot of that stuff down and why 446 00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:12.839 it comes out in all these weird ways as we 447 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:13.640 get older, man. 448 00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:15.569 I'll tell you what, I don't know what part of 449 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:17.529 yin or yang I'm in with this new vibe you 450 00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:20.009 put on, but it feels pretty solid, man. I feel 451 00:25:20.049 --> 00:25:22.150 pretty damn good. Yeah. Cause I was a little tired 452 00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:24.490 when I got here, but I don't feel like that anymore, man. 453 00:25:24.589 --> 00:25:27.289 This is nice. Yeah. So we're both rocking the conference 454 00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:29.549 vibe right now, which has a brand new vibe we 455 00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:34.119 just put out, which is like energizing social focus flow. And, 456 00:25:34.539 --> 00:25:36.720 you know, just like you, you know, like I've been, 457 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.539 I've been like staying up like three nights a week 458 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.140 all night, you know, cause I'd be 16 months old 459 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:44.549 at home. And so I can't write the book during 460 00:25:44.569 --> 00:25:47.289 the day, then finish because I don't have any quiet 461 00:25:47.329 --> 00:25:49.710 time and it requires all of my focus to do 462 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:51.829 this kind of work. And then I'm running a company 463 00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:53.670 during the day and seeing patients and all that. And 464 00:25:53.730 --> 00:25:56.369 so I'm have to do the book stuff at night. 465 00:25:56.849 --> 00:25:59.809 And so I'm super sleep deprived, flew here today to 466 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:02.809 see you and do this podcast. And, and so, you know, 467 00:26:02.950 --> 00:26:04.650 we just got on the same vibe and now we're rocking. 468 00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:07.140 It feels good, man. I'm going to start doing this 469 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:09.619 every day. I told you like I'm the most same 470 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.740 regimented guy. So I do the same ones every single day, 471 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:14.440 but I think this is going to be super helpful 472 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:16.920 throughout the week. And that's what I love that you 473 00:26:16.940 --> 00:26:19.480 do is the innovation coming out with new ones. And 474 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.940 we talk about ideas and everything, but there's so many 475 00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.759 different things that you can trigger within a system to 476 00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:27.640 get it going in a different

direction. 477 00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:28.109 Right. 478 00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:30.940 I would have never dreamed of thinking, because in my mind, 479 00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:33.150 it was like, man, this is when I first got 480 00:26:33.329 --> 00:26:35.750 learning about it, it's amazing. But I, I never really 481 00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:38.140 thought about, well, you could go 20 different routes, now 482 00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:40.740 30 different routes and just keep going and going and going. 483 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:41.339 Right. 484 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:43.920 How do you keep coming up with these ideas and 485 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:48.049 how difficult is it to create a different feel for 486 00:26:48.089 --> 00:26:50.589 what you're trying to like push through into a body? 487 00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:52.490 Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think. 488 00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:55.309 What if I told you that one molecule will help 489 00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:58.809 keep your body's system cleansed, supported immune health, and cellular 490 00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:02.990 protection all at once? I'm talking about glutathione, aka the 491 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.180 body's master antioxidant. It exists inside nearly every cell, helping 492 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.799 to protect DNA, proteins, and cell membranes from oxidative stress, 493 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:13.359 as well as playing a major role in liver cleansing, 494 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:18.519 mitochondrial energy production, and immune balance. Unfortunately, pollutions, toxins, and 495 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.029 stress can rapidly deplete glutathione levels, and as we age, 496 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:26.049 glutathione production decreases as well. And many traditional glutathione supplements 497 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.450 do not absorb well, making it extremely difficult to raise 498 00:27:29.619 --> 00:27:33.039 intracellular levels where glutathione actually works. And that's why I 499 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:38.019 use Glutaryl, the multi-patented topical glutathione developed by the amazing Dr. 500 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:38.740 Nayam Patel. 501 00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:42.079 Instead of relying on digestion, Glutaryl absorbs through the skin, 502 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:44.799 helping provide a convenient and consistent way to support the 503 00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:48.089 body's most important antioxidant system. So use my link in 504 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:51.490 the description and code Dylan to save 15% off today. 505 00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:56.210 So there are infinite states and situations that knock us 506 00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:00.089 off balance. Yeah. Right? So it's not... So there are... 507 00:28:00.390 --> 00:28:03.549 There are... infinite situations that we can create vibes for. 508 00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:07.630 The vibrations that come out of Apollo are songs for 509 00:28:07.670 --> 00:28:11.680 your body. They're literal music. It's sound waves that we 510 00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:14.279 discovered in the University of Pittsburgh. That is a sound 511 00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:17.819 wave algorithm that my team and I discovered. And we 512 00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:19.789 talk about the story in the book for the first time, 513 00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:24.839 really in depth. And it's it was from studying music 514 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:27.460 and the effects of music on the nervous system and 515 00:28:27.549 --> 00:28:30.650 soothing touch effects on the nervous system and MDMAs effects 516 00:28:30.710 --> 00:28:33.549 on the nervous system. And it turns out that at 517 00:28:33.609 --> 00:28:35.869 least back in 2014, when I started doing this work, 518 00:28:36.869 --> 00:28:39.190 all of these things, soothing touch and soothing music and 519 00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:41.230 all these things had great effects for our patients with 520 00:28:41.269 --> 00:28:44.819 trauma and depression. They were self-medicating with these things, right? 521 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.720 They were self-medicating with their service animals. They were self-medicating 522 00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:51.039 with their with their favorite songs all the time, right? 523 00:28:51.259 --> 00:28:53.140 But you can't always listen to music when you're at work. 524 00:28:53.430 --> 00:28:55.769 You can't always have your animal with you at work. 525 00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:59.589 And so that's when they started to get knocked off balance. 526 00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:03.170 So we started to look at, you know, well, what's 527 00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:05.940 actually happening in the nervous system when you get a 528 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:07.680 hug from somebody you like on a bad day or 529 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.299 when you hear your favorite song come on by surprise 530 00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:13.880 on a bad day. And when I was at this time, 531 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:18.819 I was studying MDMA-assisted therapy because this was the best, 532 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:23.789 most effective treatment that had short and years-long lasting benefits 533 00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:28.329 to trauma treatment, better than anything we'd ever seen before. Like, 534 00:29:28.609 --> 00:29:31.829 just three doses of medicine in 12 weeks of psychotherapy, 535 00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:36.519 and like an antibiotic protocol, effectively. And people were better, 536 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.900 better as in no longer meeting like diagnostic criteria for 537 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.160 PTSD at one year out. And some people, the benefits 538 00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:48.519 were lasting five years with just three doses of medicine. 539 00:29:49.059 --> 00:29:51.839 This is the opposite statistics we were seeing with our 540 00:29:52.339 --> 00:29:54.039 are treatments where people are sick for life and you 541 00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:56.940 stop medicine, most of them relapse, right? So this was 542 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.180 like leaps and bounds better

than what we were seeing. 543 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:02.549 It's paradigm shifting for the field. And so I thought, well, 544 00:30:02.930 --> 00:30:04.490 we need to figure out how this thing's working in 545 00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:07.990 the brain, right? Like if MDMA is really doing this, 546 00:30:08.329 --> 00:30:12.119 which it was in the trials, in double blind, randomized, incredibly, 547 00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:15.539 the most rigorous form of clinical trial, it was undeniable 548 00:30:15.579 --> 00:30:17.500 it was working. And these were the same patients I 549 00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:20.279 was seeing in the clinic that were struggling. And I 550 00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:22.099 I'm like, we have to figure out what parts of 551 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.039 the brain this medicine's activating and why it's working so 552 00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:27.839 we can figure out how to activate these parts of 553 00:30:27.859 --> 00:30:30.359 the brain naturally. Turns out, guess what parts of the 554 00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:33.380 brain it activates? The insulate cortex and the amygdala. The 555 00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:35.930 same parts are involved in soothing touch and hearing your 556 00:30:35.950 --> 00:30:38.609 favorite song on a bad day. And so I was like, wow, 557 00:30:39.309 --> 00:30:41.769 I never had a good explanation for why that felt 558 00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:42.250 so good. 559 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:43.630 Sure, if you? 560 00:30:43.990 --> 00:30:44.289 No. 561 00:30:44.569 --> 00:30:44.759 Right? 562 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.980 I mean, how would I know? It's a universal human 563 00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:49.759 experience that we just all accept is real. 564 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.119 Yeah. 565 00:30:50.849 --> 00:30:53.970 And we do it, but we have no idea why 566 00:30:54.029 --> 00:30:56.109 it works. And I was like, I need to figure 567 00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:57.809 out how this works. And then it was like a 568 00:30:57.849 --> 00:31:00.819 light bulb went off when I started studying MDMA and 569 00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:02.759 the neural pathways that it activates. I was like, oh 570 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.380 my God, this is the same neural pathways that getting 571 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:09.380 a hug from a friend or hearing your favorite song activate. 572 00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:12.220 So then we started to play around with these different 573 00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:15.730 vibration patterns and started rather than composing, knowing that music 574 00:31:15.789 --> 00:31:18.730 has been proven for thousands of years to induce different 575 00:31:18.769 --> 00:31:21.990 mood and emotional state for any situation, right? Like we 576 00:31:22.029 --> 00:31:24.289 just accept that it's true by fact because it's a 577 00:31:24.329 --> 00:31:28.220 universal human experience. I was like, well, if music can 578 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.460 do this, then what if we just compose music for 579 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.119 a different sensory organ system? 580 00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:32.700 Right. 581 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:35.299 So what if the music is wearable on your body 582 00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:37.819 rather than through your ears? And then you don't have 583 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.180 to have headphones on to get the benefits of which 584 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:42.619 you can't have headphones on all the time. You seem 585 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.500 like really disrespectful to the people around you when you're 586 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.509 wearing headphones on all the time. You and I know it. 587 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:50.140 We see Gen Z people do it all the time nowadays, 588 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.440 like when they're supposed to be like in a customer 589 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.500 service role and you're like, are you wearing headphones? Seriously. 590 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.119 They're probably just really stressed out. It's like, I feel 591 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.930 for them, but like we can do better now in 592 00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:04.109 the 21st century, right? Like now that we know that 593 00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:07.569 the skin can receive music, that is what led to 594 00:32:07.589 --> 00:32:09.720 the creation of Apollo and, And so we can create 595 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.019 vibes for anything. So now we're in a pattern that 596 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.079 since we, I have more time, a little more time 597 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.829 to do this, we're in a pattern of releasing a 598 00:32:16.869 --> 00:32:19.970 vibe a month for people. And each vibe is basically 599 00:32:20.369 --> 00:32:22.519 whatever our people reach out to us and they say, 600 00:32:23.210 --> 00:32:25.750 this is what we need. We want to feel more 601 00:32:25.809 --> 00:32:28.990 confident when we're tired. We want to feel more energized 602 00:32:29.009 --> 00:32:31.549 we want to feel like we can dive in and 603 00:32:31.609 --> 00:32:34.579 study something that bores the crap out of us for 604 00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:37.059 extended periods of time we want to be more calm 605 00:32:37.099 --> 00:32:39.819 and present with our loved ones after work so we 606 00:32:39.859 --> 00:32:42.039 just we just serve everybody we're like tell us what 607 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:44.819 vibes you want and so we just started composing them 608 00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:47.599 and so we've been composing them in the lab and 609 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.220 releasing them and and you get to try the one 610 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.470 of the latest ones right now i love it well 611 00:32:52.490 --> 00:32:55.750 i mean and it's it's cool because it it does 612 00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:58.150 give you that different sort of feel for what you 613 00:32:58.190 --> 00:33:00.529 need and what you want. Cause I, you know, like 614 00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:03.490 you said, no, I never really understood why until recently 615 00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:06.839 that when

you understand that we were made and created 616 00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:09.160 to love, I mean, that's the whole point in creation. It, 617 00:33:10.210 --> 00:33:12.750 anything in the Bible always reverts back to love. I 618 00:33:13.390 --> 00:33:16.119 read the whole New Testament, and I remember the first 619 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:17.839 time I read it, I said, well, this essentially is 620 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:20.099 just talking about love the whole time until you, then 621 00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.180 you grasp what it's really saying, but it revolves around that. 622 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.440 That's what we were created to do. So it goes 623 00:33:25.460 --> 00:33:28.990 without saying, we get that, we feel good instantly because 624 00:33:29.009 --> 00:33:30.329 that's what we were designed to feel. 625 00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:33.589 But again, the Bible is top-down learning. Right, right, right. 626 00:33:33.630 --> 00:33:37.390 So that's why so many people have trouble learning and 627 00:33:37.529 --> 00:33:41.009 actually understanding manifesting that in being. 628 00:33:41.150 --> 00:33:41.470 Right. 629 00:33:41.569 --> 00:33:43.089 Because it's just taught down. 630 00:33:43.150 --> 00:33:43.309 Yeah. 631 00:33:43.329 --> 00:33:46.690 We're missing the felt love, right? And missing like, oh, 632 00:33:46.730 --> 00:33:49.069 what does that love feel like? Well, I forgot. So 633 00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:50.549 I'm just going to do what I think it feels 634 00:33:50.569 --> 00:33:52.269 like based on what I'm reading in the Bible. Well, 635 00:33:52.769 --> 00:33:56.690 you're missing 50%. Yeah. Like 50% at least of love 636 00:33:57.250 --> 00:33:58.930 is feeling. Yeah. At least. 637 00:33:59.349 --> 00:34:02.430 It takes implementation. You can read all you want. I mean, 638 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:05.410 I could read and become this smartest in the world, 639 00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:06.779 but it doesn't mean it's working. 640 00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.219 Right. And if you just read about what hugs feel like, 641 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:11.480 but you never actually get one, are you actually going 642 00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:15.039 to know? No. Not even close. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. 643 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.300 You can't, those words can't explain that, right? Words are 644 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.170 at best, words are best at best, even with the 645 00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:24.829 best words and the best authors, words are, are an 646 00:34:25.010 --> 00:34:29.769 imperfect description of reality. Right. Reality is mostly feeling. Yeah. 647 00:34:29.909 --> 00:34:30.190 Right. 648 00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:34.179 Yeah. So words are trying to describe human experience. Human 649 00:34:34.219 --> 00:34:36.380 experience is reality. Right. 650 00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:40.389 Words are one layer of separation. They may make you 651 00:34:40.409 --> 00:34:42.510 feel something for the time being, but it's not going 652 00:34:42.530 --> 00:34:44.789 to be a constant or consistent at all. It's just, 653 00:34:44.929 --> 00:34:46.630 it is what it is in the moment and that's it. 654 00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:47.869 And then it's gone. Right. 655 00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:53.829 This is nonstop and you can do it day and 656 00:34:53.889 --> 00:34:55.690 night or however you want. 657 00:34:55.789 --> 00:34:57.239 I mean, I try to keep it on as much 658 00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:57.840 as I can. 659 00:34:58.449 --> 00:35:01.159 The days I don't, I never really thought about it 660 00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:03.219 until I thought about it. 661 00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:04.260 You know what I mean? Yeah. 662 00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:07.199 What's going on today? I said such a hurry. It's 663 00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:08.389 like some days I just forget. 664 00:35:08.409 --> 00:35:10.369 Yeah. You know, you just do. You know how it is. 665 00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:12.050 Some days you get up and it's like you just 666 00:35:12.329 --> 00:35:14.769 are immediately something's on your phone and you just like 667 00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.130 everything goes AWOL. 668 00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:19.550 Yeah. You know. There's a fire spread out today. Yeah. Oh, shit. 669 00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:25.000 Never stops. But yeah. So, okay. Let's dig into some 670 00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:26.059 other stuff in the book. Let's do it. 671 00:35:26.610 --> 00:35:28.989 And then I want to talk about some MDMA therapy too. 672 00:35:29.050 --> 00:35:30.010 I want to get into that, but I want to 673 00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:31.650 get into something on the book. One of the things 674 00:35:31.690 --> 00:35:33.789 that I loved about you was when I saw the 675 00:35:33.829 --> 00:35:35.670 excitement when you were talking about we can prove that 676 00:35:35.710 --> 00:35:40.119 spirituality through science has this real effect. To me, that's 677 00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:41.860 like the greatest thing in the world to hear because 678 00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:43.539 I'll fight that all day and I won't sit here 679 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.030 and go, I got all the science to prove it. 680 00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:46.599 I don't feel like I need to, but I want 681 00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:49.920 to learn it from somebody that does. You know, I 682 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.789 speak more in the confident understanding of God's with me, 683 00:35:52.829 --> 00:35:54.489 but I want the science too. I want to hear 684 00:35:54.530 --> 00:35:58.360 it and I want you to because nobody is better 685 00:35:58.539 --> 00:36:00.420 ready to rattle that off. 686 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.300 So tell me what you found, please. Well, so again, 687 00:36:03.340 --> 00:36:06.170 this is not just what I found. This is like 688 00:36:06.469 --> 00:36:10.809 a synthesis of hundreds of years of Western science research 689 00:36:10.849 --> 00:36:16.260 that from backbreaking labor of incredible scientists that came before 690 00:36:16.340 -->

00:36:19.420 me that were in search of the same mission, right? 691 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.340 Like that arguably for even longer, even for thousands of years, 692 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.980 we've been trying to prove the existence of God. And, 693 00:36:27.739 --> 00:36:30.449 you know, growing up, many of us, myself included, I 694 00:36:30.619 --> 00:36:33.929 think really struggle and wrestle with belief in God because 695 00:36:34.590 --> 00:36:37.929 when you actually learn about... Like, I learned that God 696 00:36:37.969 --> 00:36:40.090 existed when I was a kid, a really little kid, 697 00:36:40.150 --> 00:36:43.949 but then I started to learn about, like, Holocaust history and, like, 698 00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:48.070 started to see war on TV every day and, like, 699 00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:52.139 the news and, like, all the tragedy. And it's, like, 700 00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:57.199 hard to believe that... There could be a God when 701 00:36:57.219 --> 00:36:59.900 there is so much awful stuff that happens in the 702 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:01.880 world every day. And I think a lot of us 703 00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:05.019 wrestle with that, but don't talk about it enough. And 704 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.360 I think that there's this idea of faith, that faith 705 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:13.260 has to be blind faith. And I kind of reframe 706 00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:16.469 that in the book where there's actually a science of 707 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:21.789 faith and that faith need not be blind, but it 708 00:37:21.989 --> 00:37:26.900 actually can be based on evidence. of knowing and feeling 709 00:37:27.139 --> 00:37:31.019 and listening. And when we listen, when we literally learn 710 00:37:31.539 --> 00:37:35.030 that our, and to remind our minds that our bodies 711 00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:39.309 are safe places to inhabit, then we start to listen 712 00:37:39.489 --> 00:37:43.730 to all of the signs around us that are evidence 713 00:37:43.829 --> 00:37:46.860 that God is real, right? And that, or whatever you 714 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.840 want to call it, right? You don't have to call 715 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.119 it God. You can call it the source or you 716 00:37:50.139 --> 00:37:51.739 can call it divinity or you can call it whatever 717 00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:54.570 words work for you. But the point is that we 718 00:37:54.610 --> 00:37:59.210 start to realize that there is profound evidence in every 719 00:37:59.329 --> 00:38:04.030 moment that spirituality exists. And it's really just that we're 720 00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:06.710 distracted most of the time. We're not listening. It could 721 00:38:06.730 --> 00:38:08.389 be distracted by your phone. It could be distracted by 722 00:38:08.409 --> 00:38:11.889 too many responsibilities. It could be distracted by thoughts that 723 00:38:11.909 --> 00:38:14.710 your body is an unsafe place to be because people 724 00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:17.219 told you that growing up,

right? Or trauma now even 725 00:38:17.260 --> 00:38:20.599 we know from past generations that gets passed down. Any 726 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:26.590 of those things, infinite things, distract us from Yeah. And 727 00:38:26.750 --> 00:38:33.519 so what we start to realize is that in Western science, 728 00:38:33.619 --> 00:38:35.539 and this is some of the coolest stuff for my, 729 00:38:35.619 --> 00:38:38.139 for what I think as like a, as a scientist, 730 00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:41.320 a neuroscientist, I start to think about like, well, what 731 00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:44.780 happens when you believe in something to the body, right? 732 00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:48.239 What happens when you pray? What happens when you express 733 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:53.210 gratitude for something? being alive as a simple first step, right? 734 00:38:53.650 --> 00:38:55.989 And you start to realize that when you measure people's 735 00:38:56.090 --> 00:39:00.730 bodies and they're expressing gratitude or they're expressing active belief, 736 00:39:01.070 --> 00:39:03.699 like real belief, like I believe that something is going, 737 00:39:03.739 --> 00:39:06.019 that I believe in myself or I believe in a 738 00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:09.179 higher power that is actually there and I'm actually a 739 00:39:09.219 --> 00:39:12.239 part of it, or I pray as if I actually 740 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.760 know that I'm praying to something real. And you actually 741 00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:18.099 look what happens to those people's bodies, their bodies change. 742 00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:23.639 They recover from illness faster. They live longer. They are happier. 743 00:39:23.659 --> 00:39:30.179 Their heart rates come down during the act, right? and 744 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.719 the studies of gratitude to me because gratitude is so 745 00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:36.480 can i swear on this show gratitude is so fucking 746 00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:41.130 fantastic Because it is a positive feedback loop. 747 00:39:41.170 --> 00:39:41.969 Yeah. Right? 748 00:39:42.250 --> 00:39:45.809 Like, even the science studies show this, that when you, 749 00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:47.449 and I don't know why we don't teach this more, 750 00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:49.510 but this is again why I wrote this book, is like, 751 00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:54.170 when you practice gratitude, thousands of years of knowing that 752 00:39:54.190 --> 00:39:57.230 this thing is real, we forget in Western science because 753 00:39:57.269 --> 00:40:01.090 it wasn't originally proven in double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials. Now 754 00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:05.440 it is. Ha ha. yay we're showing it's real congratulations 755 00:40:05.619 --> 00:40:08.699 but we've known for thousands of years right that when 756 00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:13.659 you practice gratitude for anything which is gratitude is we 757 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.969 can define gratitude as the act of saying thank you 758 00:40:17.989 --> 00:40:22.349 for something good for noticing something good that could be 759 00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:26.690 earned or unearned right just something good like just being 760 00:40:26.710 --> 00:40:30.550 alive right now being able to take a breath feeling 761 00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:33.170 the sun shining down on your face and feel the 762 00:40:33.329 --> 00:40:37.469 warmth and just anything, anything you can find, when you 763 00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:42.570 express thanks for that, you feel more grateful. Absolutely. And 764 00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:47.119 when you feel more grateful over time, you start to 765 00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:53.659 embody graciousness, right? And when graciousness is like what people 766 00:40:53.719 --> 00:41:00.199 identify as patience, compassion, presence... Humility. Connection, humility, right? All 767 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.940 these like very positive human characteristics that we kind of 768 00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:08.590 hold up as like very, very positive things. And that 769 00:41:09.030 --> 00:41:13.829 increases mood and that increases resilience and it decreases stress 770 00:41:13.869 --> 00:41:17.210 and anxiety. And we see this now in clinical trials. 771 00:41:17.909 --> 00:41:22.409 And when we spend time practicing this and we get 772 00:41:22.469 --> 00:41:29.699 to graciousness, then as graciousness over time becomes gracefulness. And 773 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.440 gracefulness is the goal state, right? To be graceful means 774 00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:38.340 to flow with nature. Like as Bruce Lee said, it's like, 775 00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:42.980 be like water, right? Water doesn't, when water is in 776 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.500 a cup, it becomes the cup. When water is in 777 00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.320 a stream, it becomes the stream. It doesn't enter a 778 00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:50.840 cup and be like, why am I in a cup? 779 00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:53.719 I don't want to be here, right? Water doesn't do that. 780 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.840 Water just is what it is wherever it needs to be. 781 00:41:57.610 --> 00:42:00.579 If we are in a stream with water and we 782 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:06.840 push back against it, we get overrun, right? It's painful, 783 00:42:06.860 --> 00:42:11.360 and you eventually will die resisting, right? And you'll suffer 784 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.840 the whole way. And this is, again, going back to 785 00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:20.179 ancient Eastern philosophy. And so gratitude is about flowing with 786 00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:26.349 the rhythm of nature. And gracefulness is... Gratitude is the 787 00:42:26.389 --> 00:42:30.980 recognition of grace, right? It's the recognition of good things 788 00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:34.500 that are there regardless of whether we earn them or not. 789 00:42:35.139 --> 00:42:38.900 And so it creates this feedback loop of the more 790 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:42.440 we practice gratitude, the more gracious, the

more grateful we feel, 791 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.289 the more gracious we are, and then the closer to 792 00:42:46.349 --> 00:42:51.210 grace we become. grace is godliness and it's a lifelong 793 00:42:51.269 --> 00:42:54.739 journey and and the more we do it the more 794 00:42:55.300 --> 00:42:58.260 it helps other people feel gratitude around us it's like 795 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.980 an energy that ripples out and now studies have shown 796 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.099 this so it's like for me this is so cool 797 00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:07.340 because it's neuroscience and spirituality coming face to face and 798 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.690 being like we're speaking the same language right like we 799 00:43:10.909 --> 00:43:14.579 actually can show how this works That is so freaking cool. 800 00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:15.019 It is. 801 00:43:15.099 --> 00:43:17.440 It is so freaking cool. It's not all about fear 802 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.340 and danger and protection and fighting and battles. It doesn't 803 00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.699 have to be, right? It's just, what are you paying 804 00:43:23.739 --> 00:43:25.920 attention to? Are you paying attention to what's bad and 805 00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:28.199 what's dangerous all the time with your time? Because you 806 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:30.280 only have limited time on this earth to pay attention 807 00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:33.869 to anything. Or are you paying attention to what's good? Yeah. Right? 808 00:43:34.150 --> 00:43:36.630 And that is something that we have control over. So 809 00:43:36.750 --> 00:43:40.269 like you were saying, the mind can govern the outcome 810 00:43:40.429 --> 00:43:42.710 in a lot of ways as the stronger part. 811 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.300 We have the power to decide where our attention goes. 812 00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:50.750 Sometimes I do this now and it took me 44 813 00:43:50.750 --> 00:43:51.929 years to figure this out. 814 00:43:52.030 --> 00:43:53.449 Yeah, it took me a long time. I've been under 815 00:43:53.469 --> 00:43:54.590 this shit now too, by the way. 816 00:43:55.630 --> 00:43:58.329 And for you and me both, it takes a lot 817 00:43:58.369 --> 00:44:00.030 of suffering, a lot of mistakes, a lot of things 818 00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:02.570 to go through to figure this out. But sometimes if 819 00:44:02.610 --> 00:44:05.480 you sit there and you say something out loud and 820 00:44:05.539 --> 00:44:07.960 think about it, it makes a hell of a lot 821 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.300 more sense as opposed to just going through your day. 822 00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:14.070 And that's where that comes into... Time. 823 00:44:15.010 --> 00:44:17.380 So I hold a high value on time, obviously, with 824 00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:19.429 I've lost our most valuable asset. 825 00:44:19.449 --> 00:44:21.699 It's it's it. You can't buy it. You can't recreate it. 826 00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:23.119 Once it's gone, it's gone. It's gone. 827 00:44:23.179

--> 00:44:26.699 Right. So if you factor in the time that you 828 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.860 spent being gracious, having gratitude, being humble, as opposed to 829 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.159 the time you were stressed, fear, cocky, greedy. 830 00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.739 All of these negative and protecting yourself. Yes. Not accountable. 831 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.900 And then you look at the time that you wasted 832 00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:45.260 doing that. and what you got from it and who 833 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:47.739 you hurt because of it. And then you take the 834 00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:51.480 other side, the joy, the grace, everything else. Think about 835 00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:53.159 how that expands your time. 836 00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:55.340 Exactly. Because it makes it more valuable. 837 00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:55.719 Right. 838 00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.099 It makes you more present. So time actually literally slows 839 00:44:59.139 --> 00:45:00.699 down in gratitude. Yeah. 840 00:45:00.739 --> 00:45:03.539 You actually, that's the only way to increase your time 841 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.929 is by the quality that you spend in it. 842 00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:07.059 Exactly. Right. 843 00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.409 And the time you spend arguing or stressing or whatever, 844 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.619 it makes it go like this, and it ages you faster, right? 845 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.440 So if we could just teach people a little bit 846 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:20.000 of that, and I practice the prayer of virtue, so 847 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:23.289 I don't pray for all this money and all this everything. 848 00:45:23.329 --> 00:45:26.949 I mean, those things, they're insignificant. If you can get 849 00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:29.889 what you're talking about, all of these virtues, the humility, 850 00:45:29.929 --> 00:45:33.750 the perseverance, the endurance, all of these things, that's how 851 00:45:33.809 --> 00:45:34.650 you add the time. 852 00:45:34.670 --> 00:45:38.230 That's the only way to buy the time, right? Because 853 00:45:38.289 --> 00:45:41.860 it enhances it. Yeah, and that's actually, That's actually one 854 00:45:41.889 --> 00:45:44.030 of the, there's these little gems in the book that 855 00:45:44.070 --> 00:45:46.190 come out as you, as people, you know, will start 856 00:45:46.210 --> 00:45:48.170 to read, they'll see that one of the things they 857 00:45:48.190 --> 00:45:50.630 talk about is like time traveling, right? And like time 858 00:45:50.670 --> 00:45:55.130 traveling is not about inventing a machine that allows us 859 00:45:55.170 --> 00:45:57.130 to go back in time or forward in time. The 860 00:45:57.250 --> 00:46:01.530 past no, no longer exists. The future has not yet 861 00:46:01.590 --> 00:46:04.409 come to be. So it also doesn't exist. The only 862 00:46:04.469 --> 00:46:08.579 time we have is right now. So the real question 863 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.619 is if you want to time travel, then, or you, 864 00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:15.179 you want to consider that as a thing that could be, 865 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:17.800 then if you want to, if you want to grow 866 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:21.030 your time or expand your time, the way to do 867 00:46:21.090 --> 00:46:24.710 that is to be more present in the moment. The 868 00:46:24.929 --> 00:46:28.449 only moment that exists, which is right now. Yeah. 869 00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:28.789 Right. 870 00:46:29.230 --> 00:46:31.909 Right now, the more of us that is here right now, 871 00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.420 meaning the less of our attention is on the past 872 00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.030 or on the future. the more of our attention, if 873 00:46:38.050 --> 00:46:40.329 you only have 100% of your attention as a finite 874 00:46:40.369 --> 00:46:43.429 resource available to us at any time, the more of 875 00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:46.780 that that's right here right now with us together, then 876 00:46:47.260 --> 00:46:49.699 the more we take in in the moment. The more 877 00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:52.019 we take in in the moment, the more the moment 878 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:54.960 expands and slows down. And I argue in the book 879 00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:57.519 that Einstein actually knew this, and that is kind of 880 00:46:57.579 --> 00:46:59.960 the root of what I would consider the theory of relativity, 881 00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:04.010 which is our motion and position, not necessarily just physical 882 00:47:04.090 --> 00:47:06.800 motion and position that dictates our perspective of time, It's 883 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.500 our mental motion and position. So if our mental motion 884 00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:13.280 and position is in the past or the future, time 885 00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.110 speeds up and contracts. If our mental emotional position is, 886 00:47:17.130 --> 00:47:20.489 our mental motion and position is in the present moment, 887 00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:23.969 time dilates and slows down. And the reason why I 888 00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:28.230 know this to be true is like actually, actually scientifically 889 00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:30.949 true is because one of the most common reports of 890 00:47:30.989 --> 00:47:35.809 people who take psychedelic medicines for therapy or for whatever purposes, 891 00:47:36.269 --> 00:47:42.050 is that they experience dramatically increased gratitude, significantly increased meaning 892 00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.719 and love as two of the most common reports, and 893 00:47:44.739 --> 00:47:48.460 the third is that time slows down. Yeah. Right? Those 894 00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.639 don't exist independent of each other. They exist at the 895 00:47:51.739 --> 00:47:56.960 same time. Gratitude increases, love increases, presence and meaning increase, 896 00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.619 and time slows down. That is not an effect that 897 00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:04.559 is limited to gratitude. a molecular action of a

psychedelic substance. 898 00:48:04.739 --> 00:48:09.269 It is something that we can create ourselves endogenously with 899 00:48:09.389 --> 00:48:13.050 our own attention. So you're like spot on there. Old 900 00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:16.179 vitamin G. I gave a speech on it the other day. 901 00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:16.639 I did. 902 00:48:16.659 --> 00:48:20.000 I talked about that's the one thing that is the 903 00:48:20.059 --> 00:48:22.199 key yeah the key if you want to get in 904 00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:24.840 full health alignment i i always say it's god first 905 00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:27.139 but it comes down to gratitude the gratitude will fix 906 00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:29.260 the mental which will then fix the physical i love 907 00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.300 vitamin g it is great that's great the one that 908 00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.880 you can't buy you got to create it you know 909 00:48:34.900 --> 00:48:36.980 what i mean yeah that's the best it's free it's 910 00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:38.840 free yeah the best stuff is free. 911 00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:40.159 Come on it is um okay so what i want 912 00:48:40.179 --> 00:48:41.199 to do then. 913 00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:48.380 Because I'm genuinely curious myself and you and I have 914 00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:51.000 never really gotten into this discussion other than on the podcast. 915 00:48:51.019 --> 00:48:53.110 We never talked about it. Yeah. 916 00:48:53.179 --> 00:48:57.130 So the MDMA treatments like I've had multiple people bring 917 00:48:57.150 --> 00:48:58.849 it up when I talk about it. And I honestly 918 00:48:58.889 --> 00:49:01.809 kind of I avoid the conversation because I want to 919 00:49:01.869 --> 00:49:04.000 save it for talking to you first before I get 920 00:49:04.059 --> 00:49:06.679 into it, because I feel like. not that you're the 921 00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:08.139 end all be all, but I feel like you're the 922 00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.760 most that I trust and the most well-versed that I 923 00:49:10.820 --> 00:49:12.719 want to learn from first before I go listen to 924 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:15.590 anybody else's shit. That's kind of, yeah, it's my comfort zone, 925 00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:17.130 but I do want a little bit of insight on 926 00:49:17.170 --> 00:49:20.559 that because that is one of those topics. that you're 927 00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:23.269 going to get a million different viewpoints on, and you're 928 00:49:23.309 --> 00:49:27.760 always good about never Saying, oh, it's government, this or money. 929 00:49:27.820 --> 00:49:29.719 That's not your thing. And I love that about you 930 00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:30.960 because you just keep it real. 931 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.079 Now the government's on board. Well, you see the east 932 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:33.960 side border. 933 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:34.679 I know. 934 00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:37.480 It's amazing. The same Republican government that shut it down 935 00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:40.019 in the 1970s just reversed it. So we'll see how 936 00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.219 that actually will practice. But it's pretty incredible that we're 937 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:44.360 finally getting there. 938 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:49.019 My first question is, why was it something that was 939 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.519 viewed a certain way? And then secondly, let's just talk 940 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:53.539 a little bit about the benefits, how it works, what 941 00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:56.739 it does. Just some basics for people that are wondering, 942 00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:59.239 because you hear that and most people are like, oh, shit. 943 00:49:59.260 --> 00:50:00.639 I'm going to go trip or whatever. 944 00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.090 And they don't even understand what it is or they 945 00:50:03.130 --> 00:50:06.449 think it's some illicit street drug and everything. Please break 946 00:50:06.469 --> 00:50:06.849 it down. 947 00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:11.289 So first off, the psychedelic, the word psychedelic is is 948 00:50:11.389 --> 00:50:14.110 not about drugs at all. It's about a state of 949 00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:18.969 being psyche. Psychedelic as a word was coined by Aldous 950 00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:22.949 Huxley and the author of Brave New World. Yeah. Humphrey Osmond, 951 00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:26.889 famous physician in 1950s, 1953, I think. And they came 952 00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:29.869 up with this word to describe a specific state that 953 00:50:30.429 --> 00:50:32.389 is a natural state of being, but it's a state 954 00:50:32.429 --> 00:50:36.349 that can be induced by medicines like LSD or mescaline 955 00:50:36.429 --> 00:50:40.090 or other psychedelic molecules. Because we didn't have a word 956 00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:42.449 that was appropriate at that time. And language is a 957 00:50:42.489 --> 00:50:44.889 living thing. They saw language as a living thing. And 958 00:50:44.909 --> 00:50:46.969 they said, we're going to figure out the right word 959 00:50:46.989 --> 00:50:50.659 to describe this experience, right? Knowing the limitations of language. 960 00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:54.989 And they developed this word psychedelic because psyche means mind 961 00:50:55.230 --> 00:50:57.920 in Latin and delos means to show or to reveal. 962 00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:01.880 So what psychedelic states are taking a step back from drugs, 963 00:51:02.420 --> 00:51:08.039 psychedelic states are states of being where our mind is 964 00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:11.059 revealed to us. Okay. Okay. So that's where it starts. 965 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.579 And it has nothing to do with crazy 70s dance parties. 966 00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:16.219 It has nothing to do with Richard Nixon. It has 967 00:51:16.340 --> 00:51:18.489 nothing to do with the Vietnam War. It has nothing 968 00:51:18.530 --> 00:51:20.889 to do with the counterculture revolution. It has to do 969 00:51:20.929 --> 00:51:23.829 with a state of being. And that

state of being 970 00:51:23.929 --> 00:51:26.909 is innate to all human beings. Well, just everything I 971 00:51:26.969 --> 00:51:29.130 ever knew just got blown up, right? So let's forget 972 00:51:29.170 --> 00:51:31.730 about all the politics and the bullshit. Let's just throw 973 00:51:31.789 --> 00:51:35.070 that away and let's come back to language, right? Language 974 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:40.219 is very helpful in that way. So, so, um, Whenever 975 00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:41.820 I give lectures on this, I think it's really funny 976 00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:43.880 because I start talking about psychedelics and I see people 977 00:51:43.900 --> 00:51:46.980 in the crowd being like, leaning in, leaning into their friends, 978 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.219 and they're like, I've never tried that. And then I'm like, 979 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.570 guess what, by the way, you already have because you've 980 00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:57.849 had a dream. Dreams are the very first psychedelic experiences 981 00:51:57.889 --> 00:52:02.690 we all have. Because what happens when you dream? Your ego, 982 00:52:02.989 --> 00:52:06.429 protective mind that's protecting us and involved in all of 983 00:52:06.469 --> 00:52:10.150 our self-identity decision-making stuff during the day feels safe enough 984 00:52:10.989 --> 00:52:15.019 to relax, and then all the material from our subconscious 985 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:19.800 and unconscious becomes aware. It enters awareness, right? That is 986 00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:22.889 our mind revealing itself to us because we're safe enough 987 00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:25.570 for what's underneath awareness to come out. 988 00:52:26.030 --> 00:52:26.449 Yes. 989 00:52:26.969 --> 00:52:30.429 So our awareness, our minds, our consciousness as a whole 990 00:52:30.469 --> 00:52:33.630 is like an iceberg, right? Only the tip of the 991 00:52:33.730 --> 00:52:37.650 iceberg is visible during our waking life. Only the tip. 992 00:52:38.130 --> 00:52:41.710 But 98% of our consciousness is still there beneath the 993 00:52:41.750 --> 00:52:44.730 surface of the water. So when we dream or enter 994 00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:48.010 a psychedelic state, could be when we're sleeping, it could 995 00:52:48.030 --> 00:52:53.139 be with meditation, mindfulness, yoga, deep breathing exercises, exercise in 996 00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:57.079 runner's high flows, soothing touch, orgasm, climax, any kind of 997 00:52:57.219 --> 00:53:01.500 different awe-inspiring, beautiful sunset, you name it, that something that 998 00:53:01.539 --> 00:53:04.900 makes you feel holy and alive, that's a psychedelic state. 999 00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:09.400 That's when... our ego feels safe enough to, our self-protective 1000 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.619 part feels safe enough to relax and take a nap 1001 00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:14.639 in the backseat, right, of the road trip of our 1002 00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:17.760 lives and let someone else drive. Let some

part of 1003 00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:21.909 our unconscious, subconscious, inner child drive for a little bit, 1004 00:53:22.050 --> 00:53:25.769 a minute, right? And that is psychedelic. The most common 1005 00:53:25.809 --> 00:53:29.289 experience with MDMA, for instance, which is what we were 1006 00:53:29.329 --> 00:53:32.619 talking about earlier, that's currently the most studied medicine in 1007 00:53:33.019 --> 00:53:36.820 clinical trials, psychedelic medicine in clinical trials, The most common 1008 00:53:36.860 --> 00:53:39.559 experience that people report from it that I think is 1009 00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:43.039 fascinating is they call it child's eyes. They call it 1010 00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.460 looking at themselves as if they were looking at themselves 1011 00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:49.750 through their eyes as a child again, right? Like, think 1012 00:53:49.809 --> 00:53:53.309 about how that is so pure. Makes so much sense 1013 00:53:53.329 --> 00:53:57.690 and so pure, right? It's not a hallucination. I hate 1014 00:53:57.750 --> 00:54:00.969 that word, hallucination, in this context because it's not a hallucination. 1015 00:54:01.449 --> 00:54:04.369 It's not. Hallucination implies it's not real, right? We're not 1016 00:54:04.429 --> 00:54:07.809 talking about something that's not real. We're talking about seeing 1017 00:54:07.949 --> 00:54:11.579 what else is real, right? What else that's real that 1018 00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:14.179 might be more real in some ways than what we're 1019 00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:17.480 missing during our day-to-day lives because we've forgotten what's real. 1020 00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:20.400 And we all have our inner child inside of us. It's, 1021 00:54:20.980 --> 00:54:23.780 in most cases, begging to come out and play more often, 1022 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:26.789 but it doesn't feel safe. It's like knocking, like, hey, 1023 00:54:26.829 --> 00:54:29.269 is it safe yet? Right. Is it safe to come out? 1024 00:54:29.670 --> 00:54:29.869 Nope. 1025 00:54:30.309 --> 00:54:33.130 You're weak. Stay down there. Right? That's what we tell it. 1026 00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:37.070 Sometimes we take out the belt. Seriously, right? No, it's true. Like, 1027 00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:39.840 it's true. I've been at board meetings. Shut the fuck up, right? Like, 1028 00:54:39.889 --> 00:54:42.170 this is life. This is the lives that we have 1029 00:54:42.230 --> 00:54:47.409 created for ourselves. You know, like, we are Devaney. I 1030 00:54:47.909 --> 00:54:50.190 reference his quote in the book. You know, he says 1031 00:54:50.210 --> 00:54:54.190 this really great, great, great, poignant statement of, you know, we, 1032 00:54:54.210 --> 00:54:56.590 I might mess it up, but it's something to the 1033 00:54:56.610 --> 00:55:00.469 effect of, like, we are not prepared for the world 1034 00:55:00.570 --> 00:55:04.380 that we created for ourselves, right? Like we were not 1035 00:55:04.539 --> 00:55:08.119 built for this world. We accidentally created a world that's 1036 00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:13.969 designed around goals of productivity and accomplishment and status and money. 1037 00:55:14.630 --> 00:55:17.989 And that is not actually what we want. That's not 1038 00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:20.769 what our inner child wants. That's our inner child is 1039 00:55:20.789 --> 00:55:23.510 who we actually are. And in fact, I would argue, 1040 00:55:23.630 --> 00:55:25.110 and I argue this in the book, that our inner 1041 00:55:25.170 --> 00:55:27.949 child is more real than the adult selves that we created. 1042 00:55:28.489 --> 00:55:30.789 thinking that we were trying to figure out what's real. 1043 00:55:30.989 --> 00:55:32.750 So that's, these are the kinds of questions that we 1044 00:55:32.769 --> 00:55:36.199 need to start asking is like, you know, the real 1045 00:55:36.260 --> 00:55:39.219 questions of like, what, what does it really mean to 1046 00:55:39.260 --> 00:55:42.480 be alive? Right. Does it mean to accumulate the most 1047 00:55:42.579 --> 00:55:44.579 stuff and the most status or does it mean to 1048 00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:49.719 live the most fully? Yes. And that's what psychedelics teach us. Well, 1049 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:50.579 the breakdown. 1050 00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:51.139 Amazing. 1051 00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:51.920 That's what I wanted. 1052 00:55:51.980 --> 00:55:56.360 Let me ask you this because like you said, People 1053 00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.579 get this wrong idea. 1054 00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.530 And I, shit, I do too. Like, you hear it. 1055 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:01.590 We all do. Yeah. 1056 00:56:01.869 --> 00:56:04.989 All learned in the wrong way. We're programmed to think danger. 1057 00:56:06.150 --> 00:56:09.090 Street drug, gonna hurt me, gonna harm me. Can you 1058 00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:14.699 talk about how it's used efficiently And if there is 1059 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.179 any sort of danger and, and look, if you abuse anything, 1060 00:56:18.219 --> 00:56:21.050 this is, let me just preface this for everybody. If 1061 00:56:21.090 --> 00:56:24.110 you abuse anything, you can, you can drink too much water. 1062 00:56:24.170 --> 00:56:25.329 I mean, that's extreme, but you could. 1063 00:56:25.610 --> 00:56:28.050 Yeah. You can sell yourself drinking water. Yeah. So let's 1064 00:56:28.110 --> 00:56:32.119 just look at this. I've seen it. Seriously. Oh my gosh. 1065 00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:34.659 The context of proper use. Yeah. 1066 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:38.409 Right. just run me down some of the benefits and 1067 00:56:38.449 --> 00:56:42.139 potential risks for people or anything like that and what 1068 00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:43.800 type of people this would be good for. 1069 00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:47.460 For sure. Yeah, so psychedelic medicines, getting to the drug 1070 00:56:47.500 --> 00:56:50.019 side of it, are not a panacea. They are not 1071 00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:50.719 for everyone. 1072

00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:51.239 Yeah. 1073 00:56:51.340 --> 00:56:55.989 You know, they are profoundly altering to our consciousness. Famous, 1074 00:56:56.050 --> 00:56:58.750 very famous psychiatrist who was one of the first psychiatrists 1075 00:56:58.769 --> 00:57:02.030 to receive LSD from Albert Hoffman in the late 30s, 1076 00:57:02.090 --> 00:57:06.719 early 40s, His name is Dr. Stan Grof, still alive, brilliant, 1077 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:10.579 brilliant man. And he was the first to coin this 1078 00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.559 understanding of psychedelic drugs as nonspecific amplifiers of awareness. So 1079 00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.489 when you think about the iceberg metaphor, right, if our 1080 00:57:18.530 --> 00:57:21.610 awareness on a normal day is just what's sticking up 1081 00:57:21.849 --> 00:57:24.809 the tip of the iceberg, we can see. There's 98% 1082 00:57:24.809 --> 00:57:27.550 of the iceberg, 98% of our consciousness is beneath the 1083 00:57:27.570 --> 00:57:30.280 surface that we are not aware of. That is not 1084 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:34.280 just good stuff down there. It's everything. It's good stuff. 1085 00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:38.119 It's stuff that makes us really uncomfortable and squirmy. It's injured, 1086 00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.119 wounded parts of ourselves in the past. It's parts of 1087 00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:45.130 ourselves we forgot were there. And it's also endless joy 1088 00:57:45.170 --> 00:57:47.289 and wonder and imagination and all the good stuff of 1089 00:57:47.309 --> 00:57:53.670 our inner child, right? It's everything. So what psychedelic medicines do, even... 1090 00:57:53.489 --> 00:57:57.610 And again, when I say psychedelic medicines, I include anything... 1091 00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:01.500 that significantly alters our awareness and reveals our mind to us. 1092 00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:07.840 So this includes THC from cannabis, ketamine, psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, 1093 00:58:08.860 --> 00:58:11.980 and anything in those families. So it's not like a 1094 00:58:12.039 --> 00:58:13.550 lot of people try to break it down into like, 1095 00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:15.530 it's this or it's that. No, no, it's all of it. 1096 00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:20.150 It's anything that's altering your awareness of yourself is considered 1097 00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:23.210 a psychedelic substance. And so it just makes it simpler 1098 00:58:23.230 --> 00:58:26.369 when we think about it as That rule, right? And 1099 00:58:26.610 --> 00:58:29.989 instead of like over-reducing it, so the, or dividing it 1100 00:58:30.030 --> 00:58:32.360 into too many different families, they're all altering how we 1101 00:58:32.389 --> 00:58:37.980 see ourselves. All changing awareness. But they change awareness non-specifically. 1102 00:58:38.579 --> 00:58:42.860 So effectively, this comes back to your question, which is, well, 1103 00:58:43.340 --> 00:58:45.920 how do these, these medicines can cause harm, like any 1104 00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:48.739 medicine can cause harm when they're not used correctly. And 1105 00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.480 that comes down to this really important skill we don't 1106 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:56.369 teach very well called intention, right? All humans have intention. 1107 00:58:56.989 --> 00:59:01.460 Intention or intentionality is like, what is my intention behind 1108 00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:04.300 what I'm doing, right? What is my why? What is 1109 00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:08.829 my North Star? If my North Star is to take 1110 00:59:08.849 --> 00:59:13.429 a drug to escape reality because reality feels too painful 1111 00:59:13.469 --> 00:59:16.769 right now, then guess what? I am going to increase 1112 00:59:16.809 --> 00:59:20.570 my risk of addiction and side effects and dependency because, 1113 00:59:20.590 --> 00:59:23.639 sad to say, well, not sad to say, it's just 1114 00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:26.610 the reality is there is no escape. from reality, we're here. 1115 00:59:26.829 --> 00:59:29.469 You can't escape from something that you're in. Like if 1116 00:59:29.510 --> 00:59:33.719 you just entertain the idea of escape as a fantasy 1117 00:59:34.030 --> 00:59:37.719 and then you go escape into your fantasy, guess what? 1118 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:39.599 As soon as the fantasy wears off and the drug 1119 00:59:39.619 --> 00:59:41.860 wears off, you're right back where you started, but it's 1120 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.260 way more uncomfortable because now you're like still wanting to 1121 00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:47.679 go back to the fantasy because you've convinced yourself the 1122 00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:50.579 fantasy world is real. The fantasy world is a fantasy. 1123 00:59:50.780 --> 00:59:53.380 So the most important thing about the way we use 1124 00:59:53.420 --> 00:59:56.980 medicine is not just psychedelic medicines, but medicine in general, 1125 00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:02.230 is intentionally. Intentionally means that we are using it to 1126 01:00:02.289 --> 01:00:06.030 engage reality, not to escape from reality. There is no 1127 01:00:06.090 --> 01:00:10.130 escape from reality. There is only engagement, you know, and more. 1128 01:00:10.690 --> 01:00:13.900 And so if you teach the brain to stop feeling 1129 01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:16.599 by numbing it, then when you come back, your brain 1130 01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:19.340 has just spent a bunch of time not learning how 1131 01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:22.909 to feel. or not, right? Shutting down feelings. So guess what? 1132 01:00:22.929 --> 01:00:24.809 It gets flooded by more feeling and it's like, oh, 1133 01:00:24.889 --> 01:00:27.030 I want to go back there now. Yeah, right? And 1134 01:00:27.150 --> 01:00:30.829 that's what makes the drug, whether it's heroin or opiates 1135 01:00:30.869 --> 01:00:34.340 or benzos or cocaine or whatever it is, or psychedelics, 1136 01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.139 which have the lowest addiction profile of all of it, 1137

01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.679 they are the least addictive and probably safest of all 1138 01:00:40.699 --> 01:00:43.619 of these drugs I just mentioned. Lowest toxicity profile, but 1139 01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:45.880 anything can be addictive if you use it to escape. 1140 01:00:46.059 --> 01:00:49.579 I've seen people who do hundreds of ayahuasca ceremonies and 1141 01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.059 they're like, But I'm still not where I want to be. 1142 01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:53.980 I'm like, did you ever think that maybe that's not 1143 01:00:54.019 --> 01:00:57.510 the right, right? It's not working for you, bro. Like 1144 01:00:57.550 --> 01:01:00.369 your intention might be off, you know, right? 1145 01:01:00.590 --> 01:01:00.789 Yeah. 1146 01:01:00.829 --> 01:01:03.150 And so it's like the intention is our human energy 1147 01:01:03.190 --> 01:01:06.829 and our intention or actions must be aligned. So your 1148 01:01:06.849 --> 01:01:09.750 intentions to escape, but you're doing the right action, right? 1149 01:01:10.050 --> 01:01:13.340 Ayahuasca for as one example, can heal people, psychedelic therapy 1150 01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.820 and heal people. But if your intentions do it to escape, 1151 01:01:16.570 --> 01:01:19.769 then your action of doing the healing practice with a 1152 01:01:20.130 --> 01:01:23.750 misaligned intention of escape is not going to get you 1153 01:01:23.769 --> 01:01:26.730 to manifest your goals of healing because they're not aligned. 1154 01:01:27.050 --> 01:01:30.050 So we need to align the use of the action 1155 01:01:30.230 --> 01:01:34.559 with the intention, and the intention is to engage. Engagement 1156 01:01:34.699 --> 01:01:37.920 is what leads to healing. Engaging with ourselves, engaging with 1157 01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:41.900 the world around us more effectively, bridging the gap of 1158 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:46.000 what we perceive to be division. Division is disconnection. Disconnection 1159 01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:50.429 is causes distress and distress causes disease so we really 1160 01:01:50.469 --> 01:01:53.650 want to get away from that and get to more connection. 1161 01:01:53.409 --> 01:01:56.440 Yes right so here because I don't know the answer 1162 01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:58.800 to this this is my assumption from what you're saying 1163 01:01:58.840 --> 01:02:01.440 and I could be completely off but I would assume 1164 01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:04.190 then based upon what you just laid out on a 1165 01:02:05.550 --> 01:02:08.130 like an MDMA type of therapy or whatever, this is 1166 01:02:08.170 --> 01:02:10.369 something that you wouldn't require you to do a ton 1167 01:02:10.389 --> 01:02:12.670 of it. Like you'd get that experience. It would start 1168 01:02:12.710 --> 01:02:14.409 to bring that out of you. And it's like, I 1169 01:02:14.429 --> 01:02:16.570 don't need to do this every day, like a medication 1170 01:02:16.630 --> 01:02:17.659 or anything like that. 1171 01:02:17.860 --> 01:02:21.019 Yeah, not at all. Yeah. In the actual treatments, like 1172 01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:24.019 whether you use psilocybin in the trials or MDMA or 1173 01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:26.860 ketamine in our clinic and, you know, or in some, 1174 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.539 many of the psychotherapy clinics that do it well, it's 1175 01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:35.559 one to 12 doses over a year. Not daily. And 1176 01:02:35.579 --> 01:02:38.440 then you're done for a while. One to 12 doses, 1177 01:02:38.699 --> 01:02:42.300 not daily. It's a stark contrast to what we do 1178 01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:46.530 in traditional, what we call like stabilization medicine, which has 1179 01:02:46.590 --> 01:02:49.809 its place in Western medicine. Stabilizing people is important when 1180 01:02:49.829 --> 01:02:52.530 they're really off. You can't use psychedelic medicines when people 1181 01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:56.670 are really off the rails. So we have to stabilize 1182 01:02:56.690 --> 01:02:59.139 people first. But when we're actually trying to get to 1183 01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:04.099 the root cause after we've achieved stability, psychedelic medicines are 1184 01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:08.760 working these, they create punctuation marks in your life, right? 1185 01:03:08.900 --> 01:03:11.420 That's what they're doing. And they create, it's like if 1186 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.760 you think about it from a video game analogy, I 1187 01:03:12.780 --> 01:03:15.789 know you're in here, it's a save point, right? You're 1188 01:03:15.809 --> 01:03:18.969 creating a save point. And then there's a save point 1189 01:03:18.989 --> 01:03:22.670 you could always go back to. And it's not for everyone, 1190 01:03:22.690 --> 01:03:27.179 like people who have, you know, Diagnosed schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, 1191 01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:31.920 psychotic disorder, severe personality disorder. These people are not good 1192 01:03:31.940 --> 01:03:34.719 candidates for psychedelics. We do not recommend that you use them, 1193 01:03:34.989 --> 01:03:39.210 even with a highly trained doctor. Very, very dangerous. And 1194 01:03:39.230 --> 01:03:42.590 you can worsen your symptoms dramatically by using them. Definitely, 1195 01:03:42.630 --> 01:03:44.409 if you have one of those diagnoses, do not use 1196 01:03:44.429 --> 01:03:47.730 them recreationally. Stay far, far away. But for people who 1197 01:03:47.849 --> 01:03:50.809 don't have those risks and who don't have a family 1198 01:03:50.849 --> 01:03:54.570 history of those things, than like an immediate first degree 1199 01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:59.739 relative family history when these medicines are administered properly with guidance. 1200 01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:04.039 Guidance is really important because again, the medicine amplifies what 1201 01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.579 you bring in. It amplifies your mindset and it amplifies 1202 01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:10.679 your setting. If your setting is filled with

uncertainty and 1203 01:04:10.820 --> 01:04:14.590 fear and anxiety, that's what gets amplified by the medicine. 1204 01:04:15.489 --> 01:04:17.889 If your environment and your setting and your mindset has 1205 01:04:17.929 --> 01:04:21.840 been cultivated through working with a trained practitioner like myself 1206 01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:24.940 or someone who understands how to do this work and 1207 01:04:25.019 --> 01:04:28.480 guide you, or like an indigenous lineage trained shaman, for instance, 1208 01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:31.710 that creates the safe space for you to have this 1209 01:04:31.789 --> 01:04:36.949 vulnerable experience of reconnecting with yourself and the world, then you, 1210 01:04:37.250 --> 01:04:41.500 the medicine amplifies safety. And when you amplify safety. you 1211 01:04:41.659 --> 01:04:44.840 help people feel safe enough to remake meaning around past 1212 01:04:44.860 --> 01:04:48.460 traumatic events. And then healing starts to unfold because the 1213 01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.380 vulnerable injured parts of us feel safe enough to come 1214 01:04:51.460 --> 01:04:52.480 out to the surface. 1215 01:04:53.380 --> 01:04:57.849 So if you do one of the treatments, ayahuasca retreat, 1216 01:04:58.750 --> 01:05:02.650 ketamine treatment, do they act similarly in how they work? 1217 01:05:02.989 --> 01:05:05.949 Or is there a differentiation? Like, I mean, what's the 1218 01:05:06.010 --> 01:05:08.369 difference between some of the ones you mentioned? Let's just 1219 01:05:08.409 --> 01:05:10.130 say ketamine and MDMA and. 1220 01:05:11.010 --> 01:05:14.099 Yeah, I mean, so for a long time, we looked 1221 01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:17.260 at these things as all separate and different. What I 1222 01:05:17.300 --> 01:05:20.519 think we're starting to see from the recent trials that 1223 01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:23.780 we've been doing is, and, you know, first off, like, 1224 01:05:24.230 --> 01:05:28.590 just phenomenologically, like, when you look at, like, how is medicine, 1225 01:05:28.670 --> 01:05:32.690 how is ayahuasca being used to treat mental health crises 1226 01:05:32.789 --> 01:05:35.880 in the jungle, in the traditional setting, in the Amazon? 1227 01:05:36.500 --> 01:05:40.099 And then how is MDMA, how are MDMA and ketamine 1228 01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.619 being used in Western, modern Western approaches? They're all being 1229 01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.260 used to treat trauma. So that was the first clue 1230 01:05:46.300 --> 01:05:49.440 to me, which was that when I started to look 1231 01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:54.070 at how all these different experiences are being used, all 1232 01:05:54.090 --> 01:05:56.769 these different medicines are being used, yeah, molecularly, they have 1233 01:05:56.809 --> 01:06:01.130 some similarities, but they're different. And the protocols are different. 1234 01:06:01.710 --> 01:06:06.710 It's still... is medicine amplifying safety in a clinical ceremony 1235 01:06:06.809 --> 01:06:09.309 or in a tribal ceremony that helps people feel safe 1236 01:06:09.369 --> 01:06:12.670 enough to remake meaning around past traumatic events. So from 1237 01:06:12.690 --> 01:06:15.449 the shamanic perspective, they look at it as spiritual energy alignment. 1238 01:06:15.630 --> 01:06:20.570 From the Western psychiatric perspective, my surgeon colleagues call it psychosurgery. 1239 01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:21.480 Right? 1240 01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:23.719 So, like, which it is. Like, I feel like... It 1241 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:26.119 makes sense. Like, I'm tying a rope to myself and 1242 01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.429 tying a rope to, like, a pillar of the room 1243 01:06:29.469 --> 01:06:31.590 over there, and I'm, like, diving into your consciousness with 1244 01:06:31.650 --> 01:06:33.969 you and helping you feel safe enough to fix stuff 1245 01:06:33.989 --> 01:06:37.429 down there and allow the traumatized, hurt, injured parts to 1246 01:06:37.449 --> 01:06:41.559 come out and reassemble into part of the whole. Right. So, 1247 01:06:42.059 --> 01:06:45.460 they're all getting to the root cause, which is unprocessed, 1248 01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:50.019 unhealed trauma that blocks our energy from flowing freely as 1249 01:06:50.099 --> 01:06:54.369 the tribes people say so like from that perspective they're 1250 01:06:54.389 --> 01:06:58.610 the same okay from the from the but but we 1251 01:06:58.869 --> 01:07:01.070 for many years i've looked at them as different and 1252 01:07:01.090 --> 01:07:04.170 they do have chemical differences what's different about them chemically 1253 01:07:04.230 --> 01:07:07.849 is how long they last right how intense the experience 1254 01:07:08.030 --> 01:07:11.010 is what kind of experience is it is it more 1255 01:07:11.050 --> 01:07:15.190 like interpersonal connecting like but your eyes open in interaction 1256 01:07:15.619 --> 01:07:20.670 Or is it more internal, closed eyes, deep introspective, like meditative, right? Okay. 1257 01:07:20.730 --> 01:07:23.750 And so they all have different kinds of experiences like that, 1258 01:07:23.949 --> 01:07:26.530 but they all get to the same root cause, which 1259 01:07:26.610 --> 01:07:31.159 is unprocessed, unhealed, injured parts of ourselves, like helping repair 1260 01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:35.699 broken emotional bones. Yeah. Right? Like that's what they're doing. 1261 01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:39.380 It's just like healing a physical bone in the emergency room. 1262 01:07:39.619 --> 01:07:42.300 It's just an emotional broken bone, and that emotional broken 1263 01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:43.300 bone is self-trust. 1264 01:07:43.590 --> 01:07:46.369 Yeah. So is it feasible for someone to go in 1265 01:07:46.389 --> 01:07:48.210 there and do it once and just come out changed 1266 01:07:48.269 --> 01:07:50.449 and never need it again, or is that just ridiculous? 1267 01:07:50.650 --> 01:07:53.590 No, it does happen. I mean, we say to people, 1268 01:07:53.730

--> 01:07:57.489 don't have expectations. Also, the tribes people say, don't have 1269 01:07:57.550 --> 01:08:01.360 expectations because expectations set you up for disappointment. Going blindly, right? Right. 1270 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.199 So we never tell people that's what's going to happen 1271 01:08:04.219 --> 01:08:05.820 because we don't know that that's what's going to happen. 1272 01:08:06.489 --> 01:08:09.550 But I can tell you, I just interviewed for the 1273 01:08:09.630 --> 01:08:15.070 Psychedelic Report a few days ago, I interviewed a military veteran, 1274 01:08:15.110 --> 01:08:17.930 Benjamin Forrest, who wrote a book called Trip of a 1275 01:08:17.970 --> 01:08:21.689 Lifetime that was about his first experience with psilocybin mushrooms 1276 01:08:22.289 --> 01:08:24.810 when he was struggling with severe depression that would just 1277 01:08:24.970 --> 01:08:27.890 not get better. And he was one of those people 1278 01:08:28.210 --> 01:08:31.590 who went in, single dose of psilocybin in a group setting. 1279 01:08:31.750 --> 01:08:34.470 It was really like a really safe container for him 1280 01:08:34.489 --> 01:08:37.479 to just be himself and and let all of his 1281 01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:42.220 parts his injured parts come out and grieve his sadness 1282 01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:45.279 and loss from all the challenging experience he's had like 1283 01:08:45.310 --> 01:08:48.010 loss of family members and that kind of thing and 1284 01:08:48.050 --> 01:08:52.710 within one experience he wrote this book definitively changed like 1285 01:08:52.750 --> 01:08:56.630 definitively changed because he had allowed his he was he 1286 01:08:56.649 --> 01:08:59.649 had allowed his emotions to be felt and processed in 1287 01:08:59.670 --> 01:09:02.050 that experience in a way he had never felt safe 1288 01:09:02.090 --> 01:09:05.289 enough to do before. It was too sensitive. It was too, 1289 01:09:05.569 --> 01:09:07.770 he had been taught. It was too weak to, to 1290 01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:10.409 feel right. Like same things we're talking about at the 1291 01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:13.239 beginning of this show. And so he, within one dose 1292 01:09:13.939 --> 01:09:16.979 was changed. Yeah. And it, and we see that in 1293 01:09:17.020 --> 01:09:20.140 some of the psilocybin studies for depression and that one 1294 01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:23.520 single dose done in the right way can actually result 1295 01:09:23.619 --> 01:09:27.850 in long-lasting benefits that last and are still detect major 1296 01:09:27.890 --> 01:09:31.670 benefits that are more intense, more like significant benefits than 1297 01:09:31.789 --> 01:09:36.050 people get from SSRI antidepressants. Six months, 12 months out, 1298 01:09:36.149 --> 01:09:39.949 people are still feeling really great and feeling healed. But 1299 01:09:40.289 --> 01:09:43.060 more often than not, I would say, I've also seen 1300 01:09:43.069 --> 01:09:45.680 that with ketamine. We've seen

that with MDMA. More often 1301 01:09:45.699 --> 01:09:48.460 than not, it usually takes a few doses of medicine, 1302 01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:51.779 Like one to three doses at least and a bunch 1303 01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:55.189 of therapy, right? Like you can't ignore the talk therapy 1304 01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:59.069 part because the talk therapy is the preparation for the experience. 1305 01:09:59.090 --> 01:10:02.670 Make sure you're ready and you're ready to feel safe 1306 01:10:02.710 --> 01:10:05.369 enough to let go and allow the medicine to show 1307 01:10:05.409 --> 01:10:08.010 you what you were meant to be experiencing during the experience. 1308 01:10:08.350 --> 01:10:11.289 You allow yourself to feel safe enough to look underneath 1309 01:10:11.310 --> 01:10:13.329 the surface of the water to the rest of the iceberg. 1310 01:10:13.350 --> 01:10:17.529 Whatever comes up is fair game, right? You allow. And 1311 01:10:17.569 --> 01:10:20.930 if you're safe enough to allow, then healing can happen. 1312 01:10:21.050 --> 01:10:24.289 Vulnerability can come to the surface and be healed. And 1313 01:10:24.310 --> 01:10:26.770 then the second part of the talk therapy that's really 1314 01:10:26.810 --> 01:10:29.260 critical is what we call integration, which is what happens after. 1315 01:10:29.729 --> 01:10:33.300 Because psychedelic medicines have this way of disintegrating your ego 1316 01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.680 protective parts. And so what has to happen afterwards is 1317 01:10:36.699 --> 01:10:40.880 you have to reintegrate your ego and protective parts, honoring 1318 01:10:40.939 --> 01:10:44.720 them for protecting you, not dismissing them, not throwing them away. 1319 01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.800 They're not, they're not bad. They're just protecting you. They 1320 01:10:47.819 --> 01:10:50.670 thought there was danger. Right. They're like, it's like a really, uh, 1321 01:10:51.210 --> 01:10:53.430 you know, it's like the most advanced alarm system in 1322 01:10:53.449 --> 01:10:54.890 the world. It's actually been triggered to go off at 1323 01:10:54.909 --> 01:10:58.090 the wrong times. Right. Like that's what it is. And 1324 01:10:58.130 --> 01:11:01.010 so we don't want to turn the alarm off forever. 1325 01:11:01.109 --> 01:11:04.670 We don't want to tell the alarm that it's, it's bad. 1326 01:11:04.789 --> 01:11:07.260 It's not bad. It's just incorrectly calibrated. 1327 01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:07.779 Right. 1328 01:11:08.100 --> 01:11:11.579 And so then the integration is, is, is, is taking 1329 01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:14.770 that for those protective parts of ourselves and And then 1330 01:11:14.949 --> 01:11:19.170 like understanding how those now fit in, knowing that you're safe, 1331 01:11:19.489 --> 01:11:21.510 knowing that you don't have to be on guard all 1332 01:11:21.550 --> 01:11:24.539 the time. And how does that now integrate and fit 1333 01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.359 in with your sensitive parts? And then what is your 1334 01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:29.880 life look like now on a moment to moment, day 1335 01:11:29.899 --> 01:11:31.859 to day basis when you actually feel safe in your 1336 01:11:31.899 --> 01:11:35.189 own skin for the first time in maybe decades? I 1337 01:11:35.229 --> 01:11:37.489 got it. But for the effects to be long lasting. 1338 01:11:37.770 --> 01:11:41.039 That integration has to be there. Otherwise, oftentimes people just 1339 01:11:41.079 --> 01:11:42.800 get confused with what to do after. Right. 1340 01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:44.880 That's what I was going to ask you next was 1341 01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:48.319 about like, what's the steps? Cause I just think Burning Man, dude, 1342 01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:50.340 like that's all I could think of was that, that 1343 01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:52.739 experience and then whatever they tell you there and that's it. 1344 01:11:52.779 --> 01:11:56.100 So for you, it's like, this is a, this is 1345 01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:59.220 a really like dramatic type of layout almost where we 1346 01:11:59.260 --> 01:12:01.520 have to go through stages and there's a lot of 1347 01:12:01.579 --> 01:12:02.539 talking and understanding. 1348 01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:03.180 Cause I figure. 1349 01:12:04.020 --> 01:12:07.159 That there are certain categories of people that would qualify 1350 01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:10.529 for this. People with trauma, people with depression, anxiety, high 1351 01:12:10.609 --> 01:12:12.689 stress levels. Those are the type of people that would 1352 01:12:12.710 --> 01:12:13.529 be coming to you, right? 1353 01:12:14.050 --> 01:12:16.369 I mean, the people who come to me usually are 1354 01:12:16.409 --> 01:12:18.689 people who have mental illness that they've been trying to 1355 01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:22.369 treat for years. Everything under the sun and the traditional 1356 01:12:22.390 --> 01:12:25.899 way and nothing makes a dent. So I see people 1357 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.680 who predominantly are what we call treatment. Western medicine has 1358 01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:32.250 labeled them as treatment-resistant mental illness. I see lots of people, 1359 01:12:32.529 --> 01:12:34.510 but that's just the majority of the people that I see. 1360 01:12:34.529 --> 01:12:36.270 And then a bunch of people in my practice are 1361 01:12:36.289 --> 01:12:40.090 people who've had really bad psychedelic experiences with people who 1362 01:12:40.130 --> 01:12:42.989 are untrained providers or they accidentally overdosed themselves in the 1363 01:12:43.029 --> 01:12:47.079 wrong environment and then got set back. And so then 1364 01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:50.199 they work with me to bring them back to their 1365 01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:54.159 fully functioning state prior to taking medicine. I see. So 1366 01:12:54.180 --> 01:12:56.939 I would say that's like 40-50% of the patients I 1367 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:01.020 see are actually people who have accidentally re-traumatized

themselves with psychedelics. 1368 01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:04.720 So that's why I'm so bullish and passionate around teaching 1369 01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:07.439 people how to use these medicines properly and how not 1370 01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:12.029 to use them incorrectly because you can totally fuck yourself 1371 01:13:12.170 --> 01:13:15.010 up if you don't do it right. I believe it. 1372 01:13:15.210 --> 01:13:19.170 They're very powerful. They are amongst, easily amongst the most 1373 01:13:19.250 --> 01:13:22.939 powerful medical tools we have ever had access to as 1374 01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:26.199 human beings. Wow. So we need to treat them with respect. Yeah. 1375 01:13:26.300 --> 01:13:29.060 And in doing so, treat ourselves with respect. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. 1376 01:13:30.369 --> 01:13:32.350 I went through this with years with people wanting to 1377 01:13:32.649 --> 01:13:35.310 run testosterone on their own and explain like, you just, 1378 01:13:35.789 --> 01:13:36.810 you just don't know what you're doing. 1379 01:13:36.970 --> 01:13:39.289 And it's not wise. Like all medicine has to be 1380 01:13:39.310 --> 01:13:41.289 treated with respect that if you take too much Tylenol, 1381 01:13:41.310 --> 01:13:44.010 you'll kill your liver and you'll die. Absolutely. You take 1382 01:13:44.029 --> 01:13:46.409 too much ibuprofen. These are over the counter drugs. Take 1383 01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:48.890 too much ibuprofen. You'll kill your kidneys and you'll die. 1384 01:13:48.909 --> 01:13:50.979 Toxic vitamins. I mean, right. You know what? 1385 01:13:51.069 --> 01:13:51.350 Yeah. 1386 01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:53.239 So it's like everything has to be treated with respect, 1387 01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:57.600 but these medicines. Another level. Yeah. Well, they're not. People 1388 01:13:57.659 --> 01:14:02.310 get lulled into a sense of safety because. it's almost 1389 01:14:02.350 --> 01:14:04.630 impossible to overdose on mushrooms in a way that you 1390 01:14:04.689 --> 01:14:08.710 can't kill yourself with mushroom toxicity from psilocybin mushrooms. Your 1391 01:14:08.750 --> 01:14:11.590 body can take a huge amount of mushrooms and not 1392 01:14:11.890 --> 01:14:13.010 physically die. 1393 01:14:13.029 --> 01:14:14.250 But mentally? 1394 01:14:14.270 --> 01:14:18.329 But mentally, your ego takes a major hit. Same with ketamine. 1395 01:14:18.350 --> 01:14:19.930 You can take a huge amount of ketamine, a huge 1396 01:14:19.970 --> 01:14:23.710 amount of LSD, and physically, what we call the LD50, 1397 01:14:24.130 --> 01:14:26.489 which is like the 50% of the dose required to 1398 01:14:28.960 --> 01:14:33.359 To result in somebody having like a biological episode that 1399 01:14:33.399 --> 01:14:37.069 would be physically impairing to you or causing death, the 1400 01:14:37.149 --> 01:14:40.829 LD50 is very high. So like pharmacologically, they're very safe drugs. 1401 01:14:40.850 --> 01:14:44.069 They're much safer than Tylenol and ibuprofen. Much safer than alcohol. 1402 01:14:44.310 --> 01:14:47.060 Everything's safer than alcohol, man. But that's another story. But 1403 01:14:47.100 --> 01:14:49.680 that's the, but I think that's where people get confused. 1404 01:14:49.699 --> 01:14:51.810 And so they're like, oh, I can just take. a 1405 01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:54.770 bunch of like cannabis, like you couldn't ingest enough THC 1406 01:14:54.789 --> 01:14:56.810 to kill you. It would be so hard. You would 1407 01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:00.079 have to eat pounds of weed for days. Right. So like, 1408 01:15:00.380 --> 01:15:04.000 that's where people get confused, but they still, they still 1409 01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:06.960 will take a tremendous toll on your mental, emotional body. 1410 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.060 And so we have to treat that with respect because 1411 01:15:09.100 --> 01:15:13.600 they're so powerful as mental, emotional tooling tools. Anything like that. 1412 01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:17.199 I spent 40 years smoking pot till I quit three 1413 01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:20.989 years ago. And I'll tell you what, man, And I 1414 01:15:21.010 --> 01:15:21.890 want to relate this to them. 1415 01:15:21.909 --> 01:15:26.170 You've been smoking since you were four? Shit, I wish. Eleven. Wow. 1416 01:15:26.210 --> 01:15:28.329 Yeah. And I stopped when I was 41. I gave 1417 01:15:28.350 --> 01:15:28.989 it up for Lent. 1418 01:15:29.229 --> 01:15:32.310 I'll bet you felt a lot more clear. I haven't 1419 01:15:32.329 --> 01:15:34.810 smoked since. Yeah. Three years ago. I haven't smoked since. 1420 01:15:34.869 --> 01:15:36.609 And I feel like a million dollars better. 1421 01:15:36.630 --> 01:15:38.029 And that's where I was kind of going with this 1422 01:15:38.090 --> 01:15:39.590 is they got to the point where it was causing 1423 01:15:39.630 --> 01:15:42.270 me harm. I used to say, but it helps me 1424 01:15:42.529 --> 01:15:45.510 pay more attention and study more. I had panic attacks 1425 01:15:45.569 --> 01:15:48.329 every night. After a while, I couldn't stop. And it 1426 01:15:48.369 --> 01:15:50.890 did a role reversal on me because I misused it. 1427 01:15:51.060 --> 01:15:54.260 Exactly. Even after all that time. Yep. And that's where 1428 01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:55.500 I was kind of going to go back to this. 1429 01:15:55.619 --> 01:15:57.760 When you were talking about people that misuse it and 1430 01:15:57.779 --> 01:16:01.220 you have to bring them back, I mean, that could really, 1431 01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:03.939 really destroy your mind, couldn't it? I mean, just actually 1432 01:16:04.060 --> 01:16:06.640 alter it to a state where you're just worse off 1433 01:16:06.659 --> 01:16:08.000 than far than you were before. 1434 01:16:08.020 --> 01:16:12.300 For sure, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, because it distorts thinking. Yeah. Right? 1435 01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:18.119 But I think in... Shipibo and Amazonian cultures, they call 1436 01:16:18.140 -->

01:16:21.500 it the Shatana, which is the dark energy of a 1437 01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:24.029 plant that manifests inside of us when we abuse or 1438 01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:27.850 misuse it or disrespect the plant. we invite the dark 1439 01:16:27.949 --> 01:16:29.949 energy of that plant into us. And they also have 1440 01:16:29.989 --> 01:16:32.399 another word that it's escaping me for the light energy 1441 01:16:32.409 --> 01:16:34.560 of the plant that comes out when we heal ourselves 1442 01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:37.720 with it by using it respectfully. The point is that's 1443 01:16:37.939 --> 01:16:40.819 a different lens of looking at the exact same thing 1444 01:16:40.859 --> 01:16:44.840 that we're talking about that is now clearly validated with science. 1445 01:16:45.260 --> 01:16:48.739 Just because it comes from indigenous people doesn't mean that 1446 01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:52.159 it's not true. Like those words, that word shatana was 1447 01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:54.319 not a word that was developed in a lab, but 1448 01:16:54.340 --> 01:16:57.260 it's a word that describes the same phenomena That we 1449 01:16:57.300 --> 01:17:02.399 experience when people abuse medicine in Western culture. But the 1450 01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:06.640 good news is that for anyone who's struggling with addiction 1451 01:17:06.659 --> 01:17:09.609 or substance abuse or dependence, which is a specialty that 1452 01:17:09.710 --> 01:17:14.329 I specifically work on, is the good news is that 1453 01:17:14.409 --> 01:17:17.850 you can heal. Yeah. Like, all it takes is making 1454 01:17:17.890 --> 01:17:21.590 the decision to say, no, I'm going home. To stop, 1455 01:17:21.729 --> 01:17:24.109 I'm going to change my relationship to this substance, to 1456 01:17:24.149 --> 01:17:26.859 this plant, because I respect myself enough to do it. 1457 01:17:26.859 --> 01:17:32.359 I respect my autonomy, my agency, and that I have control. Yeah. 1458 01:17:32.659 --> 01:17:35.979 And when you start showing that respect to yourself and 1459 01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:38.579 thereby showing that respect to the plant or the substance, 1460 01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:41.449 all of a sudden your relationship with it completely changes. 1461 01:17:41.869 --> 01:17:45.449 And then you might be abstinent for a while from it. Yeah. 1462 01:17:45.550 --> 01:17:49.750 But then over time you can, with enough discipline and thoughtfulness, 1463 01:17:50.270 --> 01:17:53.350 potentially start to have a relationship with it again that's 1464 01:17:53.390 --> 01:17:56.859 respectful in a healing way or a way that it 1465 01:17:56.880 --> 01:18:01.319 facilitates pleasure, but not abuse. So they think like that's, 1466 01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:04.380 there's a fine line where we get caught up because 1467 01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:08.310 we start using it for escape from discomfort rather than 1468 01:18:08.369 --> 01:18:12.329 for engagement with pleasure. Engagement with pleasure means respectful use 1469 01:18:12.470 --> 01:18:15.529 once in a while and moderation does not mean every day, 1470 01:18:15.609 --> 01:18:20.300 all day, right? And we've all fallen into that pattern 1471 01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:22.060 in different ways in our lives, like whether it was 1472 01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:25.680 with work or sex or gambling or like, you know, 1473 01:18:25.699 --> 01:18:28.199 video games, right? People get addicted to video games. Yeah. 1474 01:18:28.229 --> 01:18:31.250 People get addicted to social media now. I coined the 1475 01:18:31.289 --> 01:18:34.750 social media addiction in the book because people deny that 1476 01:18:34.789 --> 01:18:37.930 social media is addictive. Guess what? It is. It's just 1477 01:18:37.949 --> 01:18:40.569 as addictive as video games, gambling, or drugs. 1478 01:18:40.770 --> 01:18:41.029 Yeah. 1479 01:18:41.109 --> 01:18:43.380 Right? In some ways more so because it's right there 1480 01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:45.699 and it's socially acceptable and encouraged. Yeah. 1481 01:18:46.020 --> 01:18:53.260 No. When we're talking about forms of like MDMA, ketamine, 1482 01:18:53.579 --> 01:18:56.600 and psilocybin, is that all mushrooms or how is that ingested? 1483 01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:01.119 Well, it just depends on the environment and the medicine. 1484 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:03.829 So it comes in different forms? Yeah. So psilocybin comes 1485 01:19:03.850 --> 01:19:09.300 from mushrooms. Mushrooms grow in cow dung. Traditionally now they 1486 01:19:09.380 --> 01:19:12.119 grow them in all different kinds of things. Yeah. You with, 1487 01:19:12.279 --> 01:19:16.180 with psilocybin mushrooms, you eat them orally or you eat 1488 01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:19.380 like an extract. MDMA is oral. You take it orally. 1489 01:19:19.779 --> 01:19:23.340 That's primarily how it's used. Ketamine is not, is broken 1490 01:19:23.380 --> 01:19:26.090 down almost entirely by the gut when you take it orally. 1491 01:19:26.149 --> 01:19:28.189 So we don't really use it orally. We use it 1492 01:19:28.250 --> 01:19:31.130 what's called sublingually. So you use it by swishing it 1493 01:19:31.170 --> 01:19:33.829 in your mouth or we do injections or IV. Other 1494 01:19:33.869 --> 01:19:37.850 medicines like LSD. can go through the skin or be 1495 01:19:38.010 --> 01:19:42.229 orally ingested. LSD is hands down the most potent psychedelic 1496 01:19:42.250 --> 01:19:44.970 that we've ever discovered. It was actually helped us discover 1497 01:19:44.989 --> 01:19:48.729 the entire serotonin system because when Albert Hoffman discovered it, 1498 01:19:49.489 --> 01:19:51.369 we didn't really have a good understanding of the serotonin 1499 01:19:51.409 --> 01:19:53.840 system at that time, but it's a potent activator of 1500 01:19:53.859 --> 01:19:57.000 the serotonin receptors. And when people take it, they experience 1501 01:19:57.020 --> 01:20:00.600 an almost immediate shift in meaning from the world. And 1502

01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:03.500 that's really interesting, which I also talk about in the book. 1503 01:20:03.989 --> 01:20:06.050 So there's a lot of studies now that have been 1504 01:20:06.090 --> 01:20:09.090 done that look at and explore how we make meaning 1505 01:20:09.109 --> 01:20:12.970 from the world through the serotonin receptor system. So I 1506 01:20:12.989 --> 01:20:15.689 don't want to digress too much, but yeah, you can, 1507 01:20:15.810 --> 01:20:18.220 I mean, different medicines have different ways of taking them 1508 01:20:18.229 --> 01:20:20.140 into your body, some of which are better than others. 1509 01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:24.699 Is the LSD safe to use if it's used properly? Yeah, 1510 01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:26.899 I mean, all psychedelic medicines are safe to be used 1511 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:32.109 physically if used properly. I would say... The only one 1512 01:20:32.130 --> 01:20:35.210 that we know of... I mean, again, this depends on... 1513 01:20:36.029 --> 01:20:40.819 There are exceptions if you have bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, psychotic disorder, 1514 01:20:41.260 --> 01:20:44.779 personality disorder. If you're taking certain drugs, if you have 1515 01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:47.180 high blood pressure in certain cases, you're taking certain drugs 1516 01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:51.000 that are not compatible with psychedelics, like antidepressants are not 1517 01:20:51.039 --> 01:20:54.029 compatible with most psychedelics, then you're not a good candidate 1518 01:20:54.050 --> 01:20:55.829 for these kinds of things. But assuming that none of 1519 01:20:55.869 --> 01:20:59.920 that is in the picture, then... Psychedelic medicines like LSD 1520 01:20:59.939 --> 01:21:04.060 and others are extraordinarily physically safe for the body. And 1521 01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:07.850 the only psychedelic medicine that is now gaining popularity in 1522 01:21:07.869 --> 01:21:11.590 the news media because it helps treat opioid use disorder 1523 01:21:11.670 --> 01:21:16.569 is ibogaine. And ibogaine is a fascinating molecule that comes 1524 01:21:16.649 --> 01:21:20.159 from the boga plant that is traditionally used by the 1525 01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:26.800 Bwiti people in Gabon in Africa. This medicine is... is 1526 01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:31.890 one of the most intense, most powerful psychedelic experiences that 1527 01:21:31.930 --> 01:21:34.310 people have. It can last, I think it lasts 18 1528 01:21:34.310 --> 01:21:37.069 to 24 hours. That's too long. It's really long. 1529 01:21:37.090 --> 01:21:37.350 Yeah. 1530 01:21:37.689 --> 01:21:41.229 It is serious. It is no joke. If ayahuasca is 1531 01:21:41.250 --> 01:21:44.430 the compassionate grandmother spirit, as the tribes people call it, 1532 01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:48.500 iboga is like the grandfather spirit that's going to whip 1533 01:21:48.520 --> 01:21:52.960 you into shape. Like, it is intense. And... It is 1534 01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:56.739 one of the only, if not the only, major psychedelic 1535 01:21:56.920 --> 01:21:59.380 molecules that we know of that comes from plants that 1536 01:21:59.399 --> 01:22:01.779 can kill you. They can cause sudden cardiac death, and 1537 01:22:01.819 --> 01:22:04.079 we don't know how to predict it. Wow. It can 1538 01:22:04.140 --> 01:22:07.520 cause sudden cardiac death in healthy people. So it's very rare. 1539 01:22:07.539 --> 01:22:11.779 It's extremely rare. So as long as people are cardiovascularly 1540 01:22:11.939 --> 01:22:15.319 monitored during it, we can avoid that risk. But the 1541 01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:17.819 point is it requires some monitoring and some extra care. 1542 01:22:18.189 --> 01:22:22.970 All the other psychedelic medicines, if you don't have any contraindications... 1543 01:22:22.359 --> 01:22:25.979 You're not taking any medicines that can interfere. They're extremely safe. 1544 01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:27.840 Well, I'd never asked you this now that you brought 1545 01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:29.800 that up. So you said that could, that can last 1546 01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:31.859 way through, huh? That scares the shit out of me. 1547 01:22:31.899 --> 01:22:34.050 I'm thinking about what is a, what is a standard 1548 01:22:34.189 --> 01:22:37.670 kind of timeframe for just a general dose of something? 1549 01:22:37.710 --> 01:22:39.970 How long does it last? Yeah. How long does it last? 1550 01:22:40.029 --> 01:22:42.029 So ketamine lasts 60 minutes, which is why it's one 1551 01:22:42.050 --> 01:22:45.149 of the best, easiest first line psychedelic medicines we use. 1552 01:22:45.350 --> 01:22:50.659 It's also fully legal currently. And so when we administer 1553 01:22:50.699 --> 01:22:53.180 ketamine in the clinic, like in my clinic, We'll do, 1554 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:56.960 it's a one-hour active time of the medicine, but we 1555 01:22:57.560 --> 01:22:59.369 work with people for three hours during that time. So 1556 01:22:59.390 --> 01:23:02.489 we do some talk therapy before, and then we do, 1557 01:23:02.569 --> 01:23:03.750 or two and a half hours. We do some talk 1558 01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:07.510 therapy before, get people prepared, feeling comfortable. We administer the medicine. 1559 01:23:07.529 --> 01:23:10.710 They're under the influence of the medicine for somewhere between 1560 01:23:10.710 --> 01:23:13.489 60 and 75 minutes. And then they have some fade-out 1561 01:23:13.550 --> 01:23:15.850 time where they come back into their bodies and feeling 1562 01:23:15.899 --> 01:23:18.920 safe again and back into the, you know, they get 1563 01:23:18.939 --> 01:23:21.630 to reintegrate a little bit with us there. Then they 1564 01:23:21.649 --> 01:23:23.189 go home, and then we meet again the next day 1565 01:23:23.210 --> 01:23:25.229 and do integration. So are they talking to you while 1566 01:23:25.270 --> 01:23:28.729 they're on it? Sometimes. With ketamine in particular, it's more 1567 01:23:28.750 --> 01:23:33.000 of one of

the more introspective medicines. Most people are 1568 01:23:33.300 --> 01:23:36.500 guided by a music playlist, very highly curated to them 1569 01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:38.899 and to what they want to get out of the experience. 1570 01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:41.930 It helps them dive deeper in. It helps quiet their minds. 1571 01:23:42.090 --> 01:23:47.210 Music with psychedelic experiences is extremely important. Everybody has Apollo 1572 01:23:47.289 --> 01:23:50.600 on at the same time, helping calm and ease the body. And, 1573 01:23:50.810 --> 01:23:53.310 and then they have a blindfold on. Oh, okay. And 1574 01:23:53.340 --> 01:23:56.239 so they're going inward. And with ketamine, that's what I'm saying. 1575 01:23:56.279 --> 01:23:58.579 The way the medicine is used is different for each one. 1576 01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:00.720 Ketamine is not like a group experience where we go 1577 01:24:00.739 --> 01:24:01.739 talking and hanging out. 1578 01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:02.079 Yeah. 1579 01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:06.619 It's a deeply introspective, quiet mind, what we call observer mind, 1580 01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:12.359 meditative experience. MDMA has those internal components when we use 1581 01:24:12.380 --> 01:24:15.199 it in treatment, but it lasts about four hours on 1582 01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:18.460 a single dose. So it's less than psilocybin, which is 1583 01:24:18.479 --> 01:24:20.460 about six to eight hours, less than LSD, which is 1584 01:24:20.460 --> 01:24:23.840 10 to 12 hours. And MDMA has people go inside 1585 01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.380 and do the introspective work. But then a lot of 1586 01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:31.439 the experience is also eyes open, talking, communicating, empathy. So 1587 01:24:31.460 --> 01:24:34.399 I think it just depends on the medicine and a 1588 01:24:34.420 --> 01:24:37.140 lot of ways of how people interact when they're on it. 1589 01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:40.079 But ketamine is fascinating because, I mean, I think it's 1590 01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:42.680 so cool. You give somebody a medicine after doing a 1591 01:24:42.699 --> 01:24:45.680 whole bunch of trauma prep work and then they go inside. 1592 01:24:46.670 --> 01:24:50.180 They witness what they need to see themselves for themselves. 1593 01:24:50.399 --> 01:24:52.460 And then they are doing the work and you get 1594 01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:54.739 to watch them do the work. Wow. 1595 01:24:54.939 --> 01:24:55.279 Right? 1596 01:24:55.699 --> 01:25:00.340 So like, they're doing the work. It's clear evidence that 1597 01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:02.689 the source of healing is coming from within them. I'm 1598 01:25:02.699 --> 01:25:05.430 just holding a, I mean, just, it takes a lot 1599 01:25:05.449 --> 01:25:06.770 of work what I'm doing, but I'm holding a safe 1600 01:25:06.829 --> 01:25:09.569 space for them to allow the work to be done 1601 01:25:09.630 --> 01:25:12.050 on their vulnerable parts and the healing to be done 1602 01:25:12.090 --> 01:25:15.529 on their vulnerable parts. But they are fully doing the work. 1603 01:25:16.149 --> 01:25:19.579 They're fully doing the work. I am the supportive guide, right? 1604 01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:23.159 And so it's like just reaffirming these ancient principles of 1605 01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:27.159 healing that came from Hippocrates and Maimonides and the founders 1606 01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:30.500 and the ancient nameless now people of tribal and Eastern 1607 01:25:30.539 --> 01:25:34.510 medicine who all came to the same conclusion from completely 1608 01:25:34.569 --> 01:25:37.149 different parts of the world with no internet that they 1609 01:25:37.369 --> 01:25:39.250 all agreed that the source of healing comes from the 1610 01:25:39.289 --> 01:25:42.590 person who's seeking to be healed, right? Not from a pill, 1611 01:25:42.989 --> 01:25:45.270 not from a doctor or a therapist and not from 1612 01:25:45.310 --> 01:25:49.020 a system. It comes from the person seeking to be healed. 1613 01:25:49.300 --> 01:25:51.420 And when you do this work, it is so humbling 1614 01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:54.939 and such an honor and a privilege to witness because 1615 01:25:54.979 --> 01:25:58.460 you get to witness that healing actually happening where people 1616 01:25:58.500 --> 01:26:01.300 are healing themselves in real time. It is so cool. 1617 01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:04.039 So since I'm coming to California like once or twice 1618 01:26:04.079 --> 01:26:06.600 a month, I'm booking a session with you. 1619 01:26:06.979 --> 01:26:07.310 Okay. 1620 01:26:07.399 --> 01:26:11.109 Serious. Cause I'll just picture myself listening to Pink Floyd 1621 01:26:11.170 --> 01:26:13.350 time and going off into the yonder with you and 1622 01:26:13.369 --> 01:26:14.890 just getting myself right, man. 1623 01:26:14.970 --> 01:26:18.229 Like it sounds so amazing to say the least. It's 1624 01:26:18.270 --> 01:26:22.640 pretty incredible. I mean, especially from a spiritually connecting perspective. 1625 01:26:22.659 --> 01:26:24.659 Like I tell this story about one of my patients, 1626 01:26:25.180 --> 01:26:27.039 tell this story about one of my patients who was 1627 01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:29.760 one of my favorite patients over the years. So I 1628 01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:31.399 had this, I had this, one of my favorite patients 1629 01:26:31.430 --> 01:26:33.970 to talk, to tell a story about is this woman 1630 01:26:34.050 --> 01:26:36.850 who left a cult that she was raised in with 1631 01:26:36.890 --> 01:26:39.909 her husband through her 30s. And in her 30s, she 1632 01:26:39.949 --> 01:26:42.439 realized that they were lying to her about the outside 1633 01:26:42.500 --> 01:26:44.479 world and that they were trying to control her access 1634 01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.420 to God and spirituality. And they said, your access to 1635 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:50.880 the world outside is cruel and dark. We are the light. 1636 01:26:50.979 --> 01:26:53.970 We are

your only source of life. We are your 1637 01:26:54.029 --> 01:26:56.470 only connection to God. It's not through you that you 1638 01:26:56.510 --> 01:26:59.850 get to God. It's through us. And she eventually said. 1639 01:26:59.890 --> 01:27:00.310 You know what? 1640 01:27:00.890 --> 01:27:02.810 I don't think this is true or right. Doesn't feel 1641 01:27:02.869 --> 01:27:05.409 right to me. I'm trusted her intuition. She left and 1642 01:27:05.430 --> 01:27:09.329 her husband left. And about 20 years later, she was 1643 01:27:09.369 --> 01:27:14.149 struggling with severe depression and PTSD, feeling completely disconnected, lonely. 1644 01:27:15.029 --> 01:27:17.729 COVID hit, made it much worse. She reached out to 1645 01:27:17.810 --> 01:27:21.090 us for, for therapy. And we did one ketamine session 1646 01:27:21.109 --> 01:27:24.409 with her. And in one ketamine session, this wasn't even 1647 01:27:24.449 --> 01:27:25.869 in person. This is over zoom. 1648 01:27:26.670 --> 01:27:26.949 Wow. 1649 01:27:27.069 --> 01:27:30.300 So pharmacy delivers ketamine. Ketamine is this incredibly safe drug. 1650 01:27:30.770 --> 01:27:33.069 Pharmacy delivered the ketamine to her home. Her husband was 1651 01:27:33.109 --> 01:27:34.810 in the home in case we needed him to come in. 1652 01:27:35.399 --> 01:27:38.140 But we were on Zoom with her. She takes a 1653 01:27:38.500 --> 01:27:41.039 very low dose of ketamine, just enough to get her 1654 01:27:41.079 --> 01:27:46.720 to an altered state of consciousness. The first thing she 1655 01:27:46.779 --> 01:27:51.699 said was in the session that was so funny. She's like, 1656 01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:54.279 She just, like, has, like, a light bulb, right? And 1657 01:27:54.300 --> 01:27:56.899 she's like, this is how they did it. And we're like, 1658 01:27:56.920 --> 01:27:58.859 this is how who did it? She's like, this is 1659 01:27:58.899 --> 01:28:01.699 how the Beatles wrote all that music. My gosh. I 1660 01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:05.050 was like, you're a funny, like... Then in the integration 1661 01:28:05.090 --> 01:28:08.170 session afterwards, she just had that insight, right? In the 1662 01:28:08.189 --> 01:28:13.909 integration afterwards, we're chatting, and I think it was within 1663 01:28:13.909 --> 01:28:16.369 24 hours. It was, like, the next day. She said 1664 01:28:16.430 --> 01:28:23.260 to us, I... I didn't know that I could access 1665 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:27.159 God on my own. I didn't know that I had 1666 01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:31.119 an independent relationship with God. I thought my whole life 1667 01:28:31.159 --> 01:28:34.029 that God came through this cult that I was raised 1668 01:28:34.149 --> 01:28:37.710 in and that they taught me that I was disconnected 1669 01:28:37.729 --> 01:28:40.939 from God and spirituality forever because of that. because of 1670 01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:43.939 what they told me. And I never reconciled that. All 1671 01:28:43.960 --> 01:28:46.939 of a

sudden, I had this experience with ketamine where 1672 01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:51.390 I felt God. I felt God. I felt my connection 1673 01:28:51.430 --> 01:28:54.909 to divinity and spirituality for myself without anyone in between 1674 01:28:54.930 --> 01:28:58.529 and And I realized that this is inside me. Yes. 1675 01:28:58.649 --> 01:29:02.479 And now I can cultivate that for myself. I can 1676 01:29:02.529 --> 01:29:05.180 continue to have a relationship with God that I nourish 1677 01:29:05.199 --> 01:29:08.399 without going through anybody else. That was more healing than 1678 01:29:08.500 --> 01:29:11.180 anything else for her. That was more healing than anything 1679 01:29:11.220 --> 01:29:12.899 that we did. We just created the safe space for 1680 01:29:12.939 --> 01:29:16.510 that to happen. She allowed that experience to happen because 1681 01:29:16.529 --> 01:29:18.869 she trusted us to hold that safe space for her. 1682 01:29:19.470 --> 01:29:23.149 And then she repaired this injured part of herself. that 1683 01:29:23.159 --> 01:29:26.689 was preventing her from connecting to her own spirituality, her 1684 01:29:27.069 --> 01:29:30.609 own source of divinity. And then she didn't need us anymore. 1685 01:29:30.630 --> 01:29:34.689 I was like, best, best outcome ever, right? Like she's just, yeah, 1686 01:29:34.729 --> 01:29:36.630 we did a couple more therapy sessions, but she didn't 1687 01:29:36.670 --> 01:29:38.479 do any more medicine sessions after that. She was just 1688 01:29:38.920 --> 01:29:41.260 able to take the lead on her own. So beautiful. 1689 01:29:41.500 --> 01:29:43.560 That makes my day to hear. It gave me chills 1690 01:29:43.699 --> 01:29:44.460 that honestly. 1691 01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:47.979 That is the good way to end because it's such 1692 01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:51.159 a positive note. Man, I loved hearing that. Thank you 1693 01:29:51.180 --> 01:29:54.560 for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that story. Well, 1694 01:29:55.180 --> 01:29:57.539 we already got part three in my head lined up 1695 01:29:57.619 --> 01:30:00.319 for the next run. So, dude, I mean, I don't 1696 01:30:00.399 --> 01:30:03.340 even know what to say other than every single time 1697 01:30:03.359 --> 01:30:05.510 I do something like this with you or even talk 1698 01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:08.710 the 10-minute talks, I always tell you I'm always in 1699 01:30:08.729 --> 01:30:13.470 a good mood. Every time. So it's just... It's just 1700 01:30:13.590 --> 01:30:15.649 not a pleasure to do this. It's a pleasure to 1701 01:30:15.750 --> 01:30:17.409 know you. It's a pleasure to call you a friend, 1702 01:30:17.449 --> 01:30:21.569 a family member, a whole nine. But your work, aside 1703 01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:24.600 from ours, just your work and what you do and everything. 1704 01:30:24.619 --> 01:30:27.140 And I've told you this before in conversation. And I 1705 01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:29.960 sat and got to talk to you one-on-one and really feel. 1706 01:30:29.979 --> 01:30:33.350 I remember asking you in the car, why do you 1707 01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:36.369 do this? Just Fill me in. And he told me, 1708 01:30:36.399 --> 01:30:38.979 and it's just like, man, I remember calling Queenie that 1709 01:30:39.050 --> 01:30:41.010 night and saying, this is just one of the best 1710 01:30:41.149 --> 01:30:42.810 fucking guys I've ever met in my life. 1711 01:30:43.189 --> 01:30:44.890 Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's true. 1712 01:30:44.930 --> 01:30:46.630 And excuse me for saying that, but I'm saying it 1713 01:30:46.649 --> 01:30:50.329 because that's how I feel. So thank you. I can't 1714 01:30:50.390 --> 01:30:51.949 wait for your book to come out. I can't wait 1715 01:30:51.979 --> 01:30:55.560 to show the world and tell everybody, can we pre-order yet? 1716 01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:57.819 What's the deal? How do we get it? When can 1717 01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:00.310 we expect it? So the book's coming in June. Thank 1718 01:31:00.329 --> 01:31:01.989 you again for having me, by the way. Always a 1719 01:31:02.010 --> 01:31:06.350 pleasure to be with you. I love our conversations. You 1720 01:31:06.430 --> 01:31:08.409 always take us in a direction that is different than 1721 01:31:08.489 --> 01:31:12.960 everyone else. So I really appreciate that. So yeah, please 1722 01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:15.039 come find me on socials, of course. I love to 1723 01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:19.380 hear from everyone. I love answering questions and teaching in 1724 01:31:19.439 --> 01:31:22.520 case you can't tell. So please ask me your questions. 1725 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:27.510 And so yeah, just go to asimpleguidetobeingalive.com. And you can 1726 01:31:27.529 --> 01:31:29.609 learn about the book. You can get first access to 1727 01:31:29.649 --> 01:31:33.569 the super discounted pre-order. And we'll also have the opportunity 1728 01:31:33.590 --> 01:31:36.069 to get live Q & A webinars with me where 1729 01:31:36.090 --> 01:31:38.609 you can actually talk to me because I love to teach. 1730 01:31:38.689 --> 01:31:41.189 So we're going to create opportunities even though I'm really 1731 01:31:41.220 --> 01:31:43.800 busy and I have a 16-month-old. I'm going to make 1732 01:31:43.819 --> 01:31:47.319 time to connect with everyone and to share this knowledge 1733 01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:51.000 firsthand because I had great teachers and mentors in my training. 1734 01:31:51.539 --> 01:31:53.539 I have a chapter about this in the book too 1735 01:31:53.619 --> 01:31:56.500 that I really believe that mentorship is something that we've 1736 01:31:56.539 --> 01:31:59.460 lost in our society and that a lot of people 1737 01:31:59.699 --> 01:32:02.800 who achieve a certain status forget that our responsibility is 1738 01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:06.000 to teach and pass down knowledge. And I wouldn't be 1739 01:32:06.039 --> 01:32:08.479 here without my mentors, you know, without the people who 1740 01:32:08.539 --> 01:32:10.479 took the patience and the time to teach me when 1741 01:32:10.520 --> 01:32:14.180 I was stupid and young. I'm curious. I wouldn't be here. 1742 01:32:14.560 --> 01:32:16.779 And so I'm so grateful to those people. And so 1743 01:32:17.319 --> 01:32:19.800 in the same vein, I really want to make sure 1744 01:32:19.819 --> 01:32:22.680 to give back to everyone and actually be accessible. And 1745 01:32:22.720 --> 01:32:26.079 so if you go to asimpleguidetobeingalive.com, you put your email 1746 01:32:26.100 --> 01:32:27.579 address in there, we'll make sure to let you know 1747 01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:31.600 when the super discounted pre-order comes online, which will be 1748 01:32:31.619 --> 01:32:33.819 in the next few weeks. And then we'll also make 1749 01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:35.939 sure to let you know when the webinar with me, 1750 01:32:36.050 --> 01:32:38.609 Q & A webinar comes online so you can join 1751 01:32:38.670 --> 01:32:41.729 and get access to some of the fun teachings and 1752 01:32:42.010 --> 01:32:42.750 get any. 1753 01:32:42.609 --> 01:32:45.449 Of your questions answered. Check the link or the description 1754 01:32:45.510 --> 01:32:47.989 for the links. I got a nice coupon as I 1755 01:32:48.010 --> 01:32:50.880 do in all my My posts here, when I post 1756 01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:53.840 the podcast, you get $ 99 off the Apollo, the link 1757 01:32:53.859 --> 01:32:56.579 for the book, the link to follow Dave. And we'll 1758 01:32:56.600 --> 01:33:00.500 have video content out to watch. And he's always not 1759 01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:03.819 only answering questions, but he gives live speeches at some 1760 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:07.039 of the biggest and best conventions. I would definitely encourage 1761 01:33:07.079 --> 01:33:08.840 you to go see them. We'll put lists out for 1762 01:33:08.899 --> 01:33:11.140 all of that. You check my socials, everything else. So 1763 01:33:11.340 --> 01:33:14.050 that being said, my man, thank you so much for 1764 01:33:14.090 --> 01:33:17.130 the time, the conversation, the education, and the care. 1765 01:33:17.670 --> 01:33:18.369 Dylan Dinelli. 1766 01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:19.159 Dr. 1767 01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:21.020 Dave Rabin, signing off.