התמלול המלא של Finding Ikigai: Farhaz Farouk's Journey of Self-Discovery and Coaching

like is this. 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:19.040 I like talking to people. 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:25.040 I like experience sharing, knowledge sharing, skill sharing with people. 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.439 And then one thing led to another. 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.040 And I said, okay, I'm retraining myself as a coach, as a trainer. 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:32.879 And that's how it happened. 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.199 So 48 was the time I got back. 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.000 Was it how was that experience? 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:39.199 Let me. 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:41.040 It was tough. 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:42.639 It was challenging. 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:47.199 There's also another side to me which I should perhaps say I grew up outside Sri Lanka as well. 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:47.600 Okay. 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.600 From age of three until 15, I was in Saudi Arabia. 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:56.800 And then another 20 years of my professional career life, I was in outside Sri Lanka. 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.399 So two-thirds of my life I had actually spent outside. 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:05.839 So I was like a foreigner coming into a country and trying to figure their way around. 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:08.079 And it's strange. 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:09.839 I do have a Sri Lankan passport. 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.519 I'm out and out, Sri Lankan for anything and everything that matters. 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.600 But I was, for all intents and purposes, quite new to the place. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:31.519 And I had a time trying to figure my way out, getting back to routine, trying to find things to do, trying to find my little networks and friends and colleagues and whatever to sort things out. 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:32.879 It was a bit of an effort. 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:43.759 COVID didn't help, but as I said, it did have its plus side because it did give a little bit of time for me to sit back and think through how we're going to get through it. 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:48.800 So, foreigner coming into a country, that was the experience. 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.319 Nature playing its part and giving me time to think through it. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:56.560 Fast forward a few years, it's been about what, five years since COVID hit us. 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:01.439 I think I am doing reasonably okay under the circumstances. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:02.480 Very well settled. 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.560 Got my friends' network back going, new networks back going. 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.519 Got a set of clients working, good work in relationships. 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.560 Plus, I do a lot of things that I had always wanted to do, but I never got the time. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:17.759 You know what I mean? 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:18.399 Yeah. 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.839 And I think I'm probably living the best time of my life now, currently. 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:23.199 That's amazing to hear. 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:24.240

That's fantastic. 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:24.959 Yeah. 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.160 So farhaz, let's go to your childhood a little bit. 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:32.319 What was childhood like and how yeah, what was little for like? 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:32.959 Yeah. 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:35.519 Third year we moved to Saudi Arabia. 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.120 My dad was working there. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.680 And at that time, it was Saudi Arabia at its infancy, I would say. 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.160 You know, things weren't really developed. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.079 To start with, schooling was the first challenge. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.319 We didn't have a Sri Lankan school. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:57.439 So my parents thought, you know what, let's get these fellows into a culture as close to Sri Lankan as possible. 00:06:57.519 --> 00:06:59.279 So they put us into an Indian school. 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:05.199 At that time, I think there were just four Sri Lankan students in this entire Indian school. 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:07.680 Myself, my sister, and two other kids. 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.399 Later on, a few other Sri Lankans did join. 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.759 But it turned out to be actually a blessing in disguise, Sharan. 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:20.959 I it was an English media school, of course, but because it was an Indian school, Hindi was compulsory. 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:23.040 Reading, writing, speaking. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.040 And because it was Saudi Arabia, they had a rule, Arabic is also compulsory. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:27.839 Right. 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:36.959 And so, in a weird way, from a very young age, I had, of course, our English as the main language, and I was speaking Tamil at home. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:45.680 But I was forced to learn an Eastern Asian language, which is Hindi, and a West Asian language, which was Arabic, which come from two different routes. 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:46.240 Right. 00:07:48.160 --> 00:08:00.720 In a way, I would say I think that was a good way to get my mind open to two different cultures, two different ways of living, two different because learning a language is just not learning to talk to each other. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.839 It's got a lot of history, a lot of culture behind it. 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:06.560 And exposure to one culture, exposure to. 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.439 And from a young age, this just came into place. 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:17.600 And now what has happened to me is I can gel well with almost anybody I meet from day one. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:27.600 And that's probably because internally I'm wired to be accepting of different cultures, different types of people, different thinking, and so on. 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:30.160 So that advantage came into play. 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:32.000 Again, getting back to childhood. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:39.279 So Indian school, most of my childhood friends are Indians, which in and of itself, you may think, is that good? 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:42.960 No, it is a really good thing because all those kids did really well. 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:55.279 So I got friends now from, of course, lots of them are in India, but all the way from Japan to the US, I got friends all over the globe in different fields, different industries, different professions, settled down. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.679 So wherever I go, I know I can find somebody who I know. 00:08:57.840 --> 00:08:58.639 That's huge. 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.720 And that's that was it. 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.080 Growing up in Saudi Arabia itself was a different experience. 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.399 I mean, of course, different to Sri Lanka. 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:08.320 A bit rigid. 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:14.159 We didn't really have too many entertainment options, but whatever we had, we made maximum use of. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.000 And it was football. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:16.720 Football. 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:17.279 Yeah. 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.879 Wherever we it is a bit like cricket being played in Sri Lanka. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.399 In Saudi Arabia, wherever there's a bit of a space, everybody plays football. 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:28.159 And I got heavily into football as a sport. 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:34.000 In school, I turned out to be one of the best goalkeepers the school produced, and so on. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:35.120 That's another story. 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:40.080 Coming back to Sri Lanka, football is popular, but not as popular as cricket or rugby. 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:41.840 And I never really understood cricket. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:46.559 So I it was like a natural flow into the sport of rugby. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:52.240 And there were things coming back to Sri Lanka, I actually converted from a football player to a rugby player. 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.200 And that's a passion I'm continuing till date. 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:56.159 Wow. 00:09:56.799 --> 00:09:57.279 Very cool. 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:00.399 So that's a bit of growing up in Saudi Arabia, of course. 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:02.240 The environment there was very rigid. 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.639 So parents were also a bit rigid. 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:11.919 And that probably played a part in me not exploring myself as much as I would have liked when I was a kid. 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:18.720 Coming back to Sri Lanka, that opened up a bit, but I was still having to work within a certain framework. 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:25.919 My dad was still working in the Middle East, my mom was over here, so she was playing the role of both parents, so she put extra rules. 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:33.279 But eventually things started loosening up, of course, when I started studying for chartered accounting and so on. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:36.159 Moving to Bahrain helped a lot. 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.360 Because I had to be, it was just me and my wife,

there's nobody else. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:44.480 And so we had to really open up, we had to really start thinking out of the box and so on. 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:59.120 And that really helped my thinking process, which probably led to me taking that very critical decision of quitting work at a particular time in life where people would say, Hey, that's you know, that's a very critical time in your life. 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:04.639 But took that decision, moved out, and eventually ended up where I am. 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:10.960 So I guess moving to Bahrain really helped unleash all of those things that I had always wanted to do. 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.840 And was there any particular reason that happened in Bahrain? 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.399 Or not really. 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:29.200 I wouldn't pinpoint any particular reason, but then I really had an opportunity to first off try myself out as a professional out of my comfort zone, which was Sri Lanka at that time. 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:36.159 Because childhood was in Saudi Arabia, but there was this little time where I had to come back to do A levels and chartered accounting and all of that here. 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:43.440 So my first proper professional experience after those seven, ten years in Sri Lanka was in Bahrain. 00:11:43.519 --> 00:12:02.320 And here I was having a British general manager, uh Bangladeshi chief operating officer as my two superiors, immediate superiors, and having to work with the gentleman from New Zealand as the chief credit officer, somebody from Praistan as a chief risk officer, the deputy general manager Bahraini gentleman. 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:09.919 And so having this cosmopolitan mix, I really was pushed into the deep end to try and see myself, how I would fit in. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:15.200 And that probably forced me to get out of these little limitations that I had placed for myself. 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:23.519 And moving on from that job, I got headhunted to the next place, which was a startup investment bank. 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.679 And at that time, I was probably the 30th employee or whatever. 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:31.840 And that organization operated on an entrepreneurial basis. 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:38.879 So every single one of us was technically an owner of the organization and in reality as well, because we all of us had shares in it. 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:40.879 It was part of our compensation package. 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.600 So it forced us to think as entrepreneurs. 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:50.000 That opened up a like a second set of ways in which I was beginning to explore myself. 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:55.600 Now I was not just a person working there, but I was also working in an organization in which I was a part owner. 00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:02.240 And so I had a direct stake in how successful that organization would be, that would define my future as well. 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:06.480 So that kind of thinking, that organization literally made not just me. 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:09.679 I remember this transformation in almost all my colleagues. 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.679 Yeah, all of us started thinking of as business people, as entrepreneurs, as real owners of the company. 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.320 Even the driver, sometimes, this guy, he would never go home. 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.240 And when I asked him, hey, say it, what are you doing here? 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:20.720 No, no, no. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:21.840 Artif told me to wait. 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:23.600 I got something to deliver to so and so. 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:25.279 If I don't do it, nobody else will do it. 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.600 That kind of a thinking came up. 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:37.919 And that was probably the next stage of where you know I was literally forced into exploring myself, seeing where I could do, which way I could head, and so on. 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:45.759 Next stage of development was where I was headhunted, but not into the banking sector, into the oil and gas sector. 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:49.759 And once again, my friends were asking, hey, this is new, are you made for this? 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:50.720 Can you work there? 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.080 Do you know the industry? 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:54.879 I would never know if I don't jump in. 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:55.200 Right. 00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:05.440 And by this time, I had already gone through so many opportunities for me to think about myself outside the box or the limitations that were faced. 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.320 And getting into this was just a natural thing to do. 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:12.000 And I told myself, listen, give yourself three months, see if you can understand the industry. 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:13.679 If you can, you're sorted. 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.639 If not, quietly go scratching your head back to your former boss and see if he can get your job back. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:20.879 That's what that's how I was thinking. 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.600 And I took the leap. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:32.240 It did take a little bit more than three months for me to get my hands into the oil and gas industry because believe me, it's really deep. 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.519 It's just not simply a question of finding oil, pulling it out, refining it, and us pumping it into the cars. 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:39.120 There's a lot more to it. 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:40.720 So it took me a bit of a time. 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:46.480 But if you ask me today, that was the next stage of discovery, self-discovery, and so on. 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:53.200 I even found out like you know, the creams that we put on our face, the toothpaste that we all come from past dead animals, you know. 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:04.399 The plastics, uh literally lots of things around this office probably used to be a living thing billions of years back. 00:15:04.960 -->

00:15:09.759 But that again was the next stage where I started exploring myself and so on. 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:11.840 And a few other things as well happened. 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.240 But I'll probably stop here because you probably may need to. 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:18.000 Yeah, so at this point I usually ask the guest. 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.879 The podcast is called the Creative Odyssey. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:25.279 Simply, what does creativity mean to you and how do you see that? 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.240 Right. 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:40.000 Now, the when I think of creativity, I would always think of us thinking of something new or something that's already existing but can be done in a better way. 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.279 Now, what I didn't currently what I do is none of that is new. 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:54.159 But what I thought is I'm going to do these three activities, but in a slightly different way to what is being done outside in the market. 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.159 So let's take training, for instance. 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.360 I don't have fixed training programs. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.360 Like if you ask me, I don't have like a weekly thing, people coming in, I don't do, I don't do trainings like that. 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.759 I also don't have fixed curricula for different clients. 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:11.360 I don't do that as well. 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:17.039 Every client is unique, every client's requirement is unique. 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.480 I would not design a program until I get that clarified on the client. 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:30.720 And once it is designed, I'm not going to go and implement it without getting it okay by the client. 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:36.799 Because I need to make sure whatever the client is paying for, they get value out of it. 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:37.200 Yes. 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:43.440 And the only way a client can get value out of the training I provide is if it solves their problem. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.559 Correct. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.960 So that's the type of creativity. 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.440 So if you ask me, I don't have standard formula, standard syllabi for anything. 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.039 Every program is made from scratch. 00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:03.440 Of course, there are foundational material that I use, but every program is created, is tailor-made to the client's request. 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:05.119 So that's as far as training is concerned. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.039 Now let's get to the profession of coaching. 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.720 Coaching is different to training. 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:16.240 Training is where I give material for them to think about, for them to do, I give instructions, do this, do that, jump up, sit down. 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.680 This is what a trainer does. 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.119 A coach never says, do this, do that. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.039 A coach would ask the client, what do you think you should be doing? 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.599 Where do you think you would have been had you done this? 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.079 It's more of an exploratory process. 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:45.359 So needless to say, a coaching can only be a true proper coach can only be successful if he or she treats every client as a unique individual who's coming with a unique set of problems. 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.759 So once again, you've got to go with a clean slate. 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:56.000 But coaching is not straightforward, and you really need to sit and think about every word a client says. 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.160 I'll give you one very quick example. 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:00.960 One of my recent clients. 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.359 My simple question was, what do you like to do? 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:09.279 Because I found that this person was lacking interest in life generally. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.960 So I just threw this question. 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:11.680 What do you like to do? 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:13.119 Very open-ended question. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.759 And in cricketing terms, it's what we call a batting wicket. 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:24.079 The person's answer was I just wake up in the morning, I do this, I do that, I do this, and that's about it. 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.200 And then I go to sleep. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.759 Which to me sounded like there's nothing I do that I like to do. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.559 Correct. 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:38.400 That made me ask a follow-up question based on what the response was. 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.000 Why do you go to the gym? 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.079 Because one of the things the person said was going to the gym. 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.200 Why do you go to the gym? 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:44.960 Because I like to go to the gym. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:45.839 I said, that's it. 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.519 Answer number one, Chief. 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:48.720 Right. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.000 So let's write that down. 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.599 And then I started probing every single thing that was said. 00:18:54.079 --> 00:19:00.880 And by the time we finished about six minutes of discussion, there were eight things on his list, on the person's list. 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:07.200 Then I said, let's leave about 20 empty spaces because I know we are going to get more while as we talk through. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.599 And trust me, by the time we finish that hour of coaching, there were 24 things written down. 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:12.559 Wow. 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.880 And then I just asked the question. 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.279 So tell me, what are the things that you like to do? 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.440 And I got a whole list of things I like to do. 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:20.160 Right. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.400 So now that's creativity. 00:19:23.440 -->

00:19:33.839 You just need to keep things open, you keep things as fluid as possible so that you get the client to realize the maximum out of them. 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.599 So that's probably how I would say is creativity when it comes to coaching. 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:48.319 Now, consulting is where organizations have specific problems or specific requirements, and they ask someone to come in and try to help them out. 00:19:48.480 --> 00:20:00.079 Now, once again, if I was doing a commercial consulting operation for want of a better term, I would probably have a one-size-fits-all when it comes to, say, a banking problem or when it comes to an operational problem. 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.400 I again don't have one size fits all. 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.480 There are also some consulting assignments which are a bit tricky. 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:17.039 The organization wants a consultant just to come and tell the staff what the management wants to do once it gets, but they themselves don't want to do it. 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:28.079 Whatever the requirement is, it really needs a lot of thinking to make sure you agree to or you provide the client the service that they require. 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:36.319 Now, of course, when it comes to consulting assignments, as with the other two, one very important thing is to make sure you know we are quite ethical with what we do. 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:42.400 We don't, you know, I don't really do things which I feel will harm people, which will be detrimental to people and all that. 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:50.880 I don't do though, do that kind of stuff because I'm not really going after assignments and money right now at this stage in life. 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:58.079 So within those limits, of course, I make sure I understand what the client's limit requirements are and satisfy those. 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.880 So coming back to your question, how does creativity play a part in what I do? 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.240 Am I creating something new? 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.559 No. 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.599 Coaching is not new, training is not new, consulting is not new. 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:09.119 But where is the creativity? 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:17.920 I treat every client as a unique individual, as a person with unique problems that need to be sorted out. 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.519 So that's how I bring creativity into the coaching process. 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:32.799 Every training requirement, understand what the requirements of the organization are, what problem do they intend to solve, and cater to those without taking a one-size-fits all. 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.200 So that's how I believe creativity comes in over there. 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:46.000 And when it comes to consulting assignments, properly understand what the client organization's requirements are and build a program or build a consulting assignment based around that. 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.599 And that's probably how I would say creativity comes there, Sharon. 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.119 So when you came to Sri Lanka, you're changing careers. 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:55.599 Yep. 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.480 Right? 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.839 And first of all, how did you get the idea for course? 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.720 Coaching, leading, all of those things, training. 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:14.640 And what was that mindset process like for you to get to the point of like, okay, now I'm this and I need to now, especially you're working you're working for yourself, I'm understanding, right? 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:22.240 And and having to like find clients and these kinds of things, and you have to believe something about you before you even do that. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.000 So talk to me through that whole process. 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:30.319 It was a bit of intent and a bit of chance. 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.079 And I guess there's nothing wrong in having a combination of both of them. 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.359 Because I have always thought of myself as a people person. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.440 I like to talk to people, I like to pass knowledge and so on. 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:47.279 And I have done this in very informal settings right throughout my career, at office, outside office, and all that. 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.279 So that was always there in me. 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.920 Plus, during the days that I myself was a student, I used to also teach. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:03.759 So, like say I'm in part two, I used to teach part one because the institute saw, you know, this fellow's a talkative chap, you know, maybe we could ask him to teach, and then they find you're a good teacher too. 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.559 And when I get to part three, they also give me some part two subjects. 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.160 I've been always teaching. 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:18.480 So it was always in me that, you know, at some stage I need to get into a thing to do something where I would be in a knowledge sharing kind of a setup. 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:20.640 So that intent was always there. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:26.240 But work kept me busy in the professional, in the corporate sector, work kept me busy. 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:34.160 Eventually, what happened was after coming to Sri Lanka, things weren't really, you know, everything was in a standstill and so on. 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.000 But by a stroke of luck, and that's where chance played a part. 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:50.079 One of my friends who was himself setting doing a startup, a small training setup, the guy said, Listen, I know you have a lot of experience. 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:56.319 You may not have direct experience in the training sector, but can you help me set up the operations of my organization? 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:04.000 So it was like a like a consulting thing, you may call it, or maybe like a short-term freelance, whatever,

whatever you may call it. 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.480 But I had to help the guy set up the operations. 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.079 And I said, Yeah, of course. 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:08.880 I know what I mean. 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.440 You're a friend, and I will always love to help a friend. 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.240 I got a I got in. 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.519 So I started helping the guy out set up the operations of his training setup. 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:34.079 And this was a typical startup story from a little office, two tables, four people seated across each other, and so we were putting things in place and operating procedures, policies and procedures, hiring people, so on, organizing training programs, all of that got set up. 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.319 And while doing that, the guy suggested, you know, you are also reasonably good in training. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.720 Why don't you also become a trainer here? 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:51.039 I didn't go there to do training, but that kind of restarted the training thing in me. 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:53.759 And one thing led to another. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.079 The person was asking me to look at one set of courses, but that led me to another set of courses. 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.920 That's where chance played a part. 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.160 So I'm consulting for him. 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.480 He says, look at courses of organization A, which was an American organization. 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.400 That led me to Organization B, which was an organization based in the Philippines. 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:26.960 Attending a meeting there, I meet an individual who is based out of Kuala Lampou, but from a Belgian-French background, who does training for coaches. 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:38.160 Struck a conversation with the person, and one thing led to another, and he said, You seem to have qualities that will make a good coach. 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:39.599 Would you like to consider? 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:50.400 I ended up becoming his student and getting training to be an International Coaching Federation certified coach. 00:25:51.440 --> 00:26:04.960 And while doing that, I threw a small business idea at him and said, Sir, can I borrow your logo, your brand, your intellectual property and set it up in Sri Lanka? 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:06.240 And he said, Yeah, why not? 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.119 Why don't you do it? 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:13.200 So I literally am representing my guru's organization in Sri Lanka. 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:22.799 And he took that idea, and then he also asked a few of his other students if you'll go to our organization's website now, you'll actually find regional leaders. 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:23.359 I see. 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.160 All coming from a little conversation I had with him. 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.680 And so, in a way, it was like a nice win-win thing. 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:36.240 So I got a superb, superbly set up organization with all the collateral and what have you. 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:40.640 And then he got a wider network because he obviously has been training people from all over the world. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:47.440 And so now we are like a small little multinational, each individually set up in different countries and doing it. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.599 He was, while we were doing this, now I was training to be a coach, remember? 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.759 There was never training involved. 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.920 I made a request. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.000 Can I run training programs under the umbrella of this organization? 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.440 And he said, Yeah, that's fine. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:02.160 Please go ahead. 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.079 And he was kind enough to say, Whatever you do from training, I don't want anything to do with it. 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.200 It's yours. 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.359 So, in a way, he said, It's your baby. 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.400 You do what it does. 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.400 That opened up training. 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.440 It was just a brain, I just a brainwave, and it just opened up training. 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.119 I wasn't a trained trainer. 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.720 No, training is not easy. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:22.240 You need to know how to train. 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.960 So I found another program that trained trainers, a locally based program. 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:35.519 I did that, learned the rudiments of being a trainer, then I also followed a few other things, and I got myself also retrained as a trainer. 00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:40.480 So as you can see, it's a bit of intent, but a lot of luck and chance also played their part. 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:46.000 Network, people I know, knowing people I know, friends of friends. 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.920 And I got to where I am today. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.680 So today I represent this organization called Morphosis Coaching, which is headquartered in Kuala Lumpur, run by my guru. 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.759 His name is Jean-Francois Jardin. 00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:05.359 And we have regional leaders in in Indonesia, in Greece, in UK, in Tunisia, and so on. 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.480 And that's how it is. 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:12.000 So long story short, the shortest answer to your question is a bit of intent and a bit of chance. 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.920 Got to got me to where I am. 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.240 So after being in the coaching, wow, that's a really interesting story. 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.480 That's very confusing too. 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.599 It's it's I like the intent in there. 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.799 I think that's the most important thing I understood from it. 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:39.759 After being in the training, coaching uh realm of field, what are some of the mistakes leaders make when it

comes to leading their own people and things like that? 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:46.880 I'll probably answer this not just from coaching training point of view, but even from my personal experience. 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:50.720 I also have made lots of mistakes, and I guess No way, really. 00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.880 Nobody in the world can claim to have not made mistakes in their lives. 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:00.799 But a lot of mistakes. 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:08.559 Most of my mistakes came from where I was looking at things from an egoistic position. 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.119 I know more than you, kind of thing. 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.279 And that probably is the biggest mistake any leader can make. 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:23.359 The point is we have people so that collectively we can do better. 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.079 Correct. 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:28.720 And individually we know we can't do better than collect. 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:35.119 But that thing somehow goes off our head when hierarchy sets in. 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.039 And for me, that was the biggest problem. 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.440 You need to do this because I told you to do it. 00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:42.000 I had that attitude once upon a time. 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.119 But very soon I settled down. 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:53.119 Very soon I learned that was not going to work because team members, especially the younger ones, actually knew more than us. 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.319 They are coming with more fresh information, fresh knowledge. 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.599 They may not have experience, but they have knowledge. 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:05.680 We bring the experience factor, and when we bring both of that together, we come up with better solutions. 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.400 It took some time for me to realize that. 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.079 And once I did. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.319 Was there a reason how uh or a story where you it made you realize? 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.920 Obviously, getting bombed by my boss for a mistake, and then he finds out that the junior actually had the response. 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:24.000 Why the hell didn't you listen to that guy? 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.319 Because he's younger than me, because he's so there was it, it was a bit of a wake-up call. 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.319 There has to be something like that. 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:39.440 You know, life isn't always hunky dory and lovey in the corporate sector. 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.279 Some there are there are tough days and tough discussions also. 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:50.000 But eventually, once I clicked to me, very soon I settled down after that. 00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.079 And then I realized, hey, that's that's how it is. 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.480 That's that's one of the and that's one of the biggest mistakes lots of so-called leaders make. 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.599 The word is a leader. 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.400 We forget what a leader truly is supposed to do. 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:05.359 You're supposed to lead as against managing. 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.160 There is a distinction between being a leader and being a manager. 00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:13.759 Manager is you manage the work, leading is you lead a group of people towards a common goal. 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:19.920 And over there, it's not just the leader's point of view that matters, it's everyone's point of view. 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:25.279 And that, if we can somehow fix that, I guess lots of leadership issues can get sorted out. 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.000 So for me, it was mainly ego. 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.960 But the moment I sorted that out, I turned out, started becoming a better leader. 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.400 Was I a better manager? 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.359 Maybe not. 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:39.920 But I turned out to be a better leader, and that always is better in the long run. 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:47.200 You're not a good manager, you may miss deadlines, you may make a few mistakes at work and what have you. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.039 But those can be fixed. 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:55.359 You miss a deadline, you go and say sorry to somebody, get shelled at, but then you somehow finish it off and you can deliver the work. 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.759 But to be a good leader, that's a bit of a long-term thing. 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:04.960 The benefits of it flow not just today, tomorrow, but for years to come. 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.880 And I I started molding myself along those lines. 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:23.039 Coming to training, coaching, and my experience over there, lots of times I find not just ego, but also sometimes lack of knowledge, lack of information, lack of trust among the team. 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:31.119 Even and lack of trust, by the way, not just because of any fault of the leader, the so-called leader, but also because of the team. 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:31.680 Right. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.920 Things the people have done in the past have led to the lack of trust. 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:42.640 So lots of factors sometimes come to light, Sharan, when it comes to leadership challenges, challenges faced by leaders. 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.880 Which again goes back to what I said. 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.039 Not all leaders have the same problem. 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.759 You need to talk to them first, understand what the issue is before you give solutions to them. 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.359 And that's that's where I come in. 00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:00.000 Part of understanding these leaders are seeing their weaknesses and forties and whatnot. 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:06.799 And almost it almost seems like you're playing the role of a counselor first to understand the person. 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:18.720 Now, what's been the best way you've been able to help a leader change and be molded into a better

leader, especially with hierarchy? 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:26.400 Because I think one of the things that we can both agree is that especially in Sri Lanka, hierarchy is such an important thing in workplace. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.440 And I was talking to Arishad from Flash Health. 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.559 He they don't have these specific titles and whatnot. 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.599 He said, it's all just lead leads and leaders. 00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.960 So that's a huge task to do in Sri Lanka, don't you? 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.720 It is, it is, it is a very big task. 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:45.200 Once again, if you remember, I told you I got into this investment bank which was entrepreneurial. 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:53.680 If you looked at our business cards, if you looked at mine, it said Farha's Faruk, name of the company, there was no designation on it. 00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:57.680 If you looked at my bosses, it said Issa Zainal, name of the company, da da da da da da da. 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:04.640 So when the two of us go for meetings and both of us hand over our cards, the person on the other side didn't know which fellow's boss, which fellows are subordinate. 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.800 So as far as they were concerned, they are representing the organization. 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:12.719 I think Flash Health operates along similar lines, very good way. 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:13.199 Yeah. 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.480 Now, that benefit was there in me. 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.639 Hierarchies don't really matter to the outside world. 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:20.960 Yeah. 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:26.719 And it doesn't really matter in the inside as well, as long as we know what each team is supposed to deliver. 00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:27.360 Okay. 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.360 Now, in Sri Lanka, yes, hierarchy is important. 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.199 By the way, just not in Sri Lanka, lots of places in the world, around the world, hierarchy is still quite important. 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:46.239 How do we convince or how do we talk to organizations and leaders where they still consider hierarchy important? 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:48.480 Which goes to what you said. 00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:49.840 You use the word counselor. 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.119 I'm not a trained counselor, so I wouldn't dare get into that territory, but I am a trained coach. 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.119 I do have the skills to be a coach. 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.440 What I do initially in my discussions is I play the role of a coach. 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:10.719 I do those probing questions and let the person come up with their own thinking process for that particular problem. 00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:23.519 And coming out of that will be follow-up questions, which eventually quietly leads them towards the direction where I feel would be the best solution for them. 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:28.079 So if it's a question of hierarchy is too rigid, we need to quietly steer them away. 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.320 So I would be steering the discussion that way. 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:34.960 As against in some organization, I may even actually go for the other alternative. 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:39.280 They don't have a hierarchy, you probably should think of this kind of a thing. 00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:54.400 But the way it's done is I wear my the hat of a coach and I start coaching them first, get as much information as I can, and then using that get to the next level of discussion, which would be in wearing the trainer's hat or some other hats. 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.920 Counseling itself is a totally different profession. 00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.119 But I get what you mean. 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:00.960 This is this is exactly what you're meaning. 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:02.000 But this is what I do. 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.280 I become a coach. 00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:12.079 Another quick example recently we're talking to a group of people about etiquette, and we were we got to dining etiquette. 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:12.480 Okay. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:21.440 Dining has, you know, when you go to a formal organization, you have everything arranged, and you gotta start with this and that, and you gotta sit in a particular way, you gotta all of that. 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:31.840 And during the discussion, one particular individual was asking very loudly with for everybody to hear, why should we follow rules set by others? 00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:33.119 Which is a valid question. 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:33.360 Right. 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.559 Absolutely valid question. 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.039 Why should we follow rules set by others? 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.000 I'm happy with the way I eat. 00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.440 In this situation, there's a bit of a dilemma. 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.639 Do I go head-on collision? 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:46.880 Right. 00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.079 Or do I once again I put the hat of a coach? 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:56.719 This was an educational organization, so the person who was talking, asking this question was themselves an academic. 00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:03.920 So I put on the hat of a coach, and the way I asked is, well, I tend to agree with you. 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.000 I also have my preferred way of eating because I usually eat with my right hand. 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:13.840 So if even with a fork, I might actually eat with the right hand, though that's not the accepted way when you're in a formal setting. 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:24.480 But I said having my own point of view is good, but isn't it also good if we are open to new ideas? 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.599 And then I linked it to their profession. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:35.119 I said, as an academic, as a we base our academia on a certain set of readings that we have done. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.119 Having said that, academia also changes, it develops.

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:44.559 If we do not have an open mind to accept new thinking, we may not progress well as an academic. 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.320 I said, from that point of view, isn't it good to accept something else? 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.639 And so that's how I stared the conversation. 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:51.119 Right. 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.679 And I think it turned out well. 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.760 I don't know, I don't know if the person changed the way they're eating, but at least it makes people think. 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.760 It makes people think. 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:10.480 And even to me, I was also surprised how I brought that quick connection between dining etiquette and the profession of the individual. 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:10.639 Right. 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.920 And I could link this into just open your mind and some. 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.760 There's nothing, no harm in thinking of some other new way of doing things. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.920 Whether you accept it or not is secondary, but at least that will make your mind grow. 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:22.400 Right. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.559 And that'll help you in your profession, kind of a thing. 00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.320 So that happened. 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:27.599 That's brilliant. 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:36.400 So sounds like showing up with your creativity at your work is like almost like an important thing. 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:42.639 It's like a tool built in your it has to, and I think it also has to be a bit of an impulsive thing as well. 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.360 It should, it's also, it has to be inbuilt. 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.639 Every person you speak to is unique, Sharan. 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:56.239 And having a one size fits all never works, which is why whenever I go into any discussion, I always go with a very open mind. 00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.000 Because you never know which way the discussion goes, which way the training will go. 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:06.320 And immediately you need to think of something that will steer the direction, steer the conversation in the right direction. 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.639 So you need to have that creativity embedded, I would say. 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:22.239 So in a world where there is LMS, learning management systems, and all these other kinds of like usually a coach has all these things and like what you said, like classes and pre-done stuff, right? 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:29.760 So it sounds like every time you go to a new organization, you create from scratch, or you how does that process work? 00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:33.039 So as I said, it's not really a question of creating from scratch. 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:37.199 I do have some basic foundation for various topics. 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:43.599 However, it's not like I have a standard set of PowerPoint slides and I just, you know, cut and chop and put them in. 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.079 It

doesn't work that way because every organization's requirement is different. 00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.079 So I use the base that I have. 00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:51.920 Of course, I work with another gentleman as well. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.599 So the two of us develop this together. 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.079 Okay. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:59.519 But every time we sit and go through and then we say, where do we tweak this, where do we turn this? 00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:01.920 Their problems are not like the previous clients. 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:02.719 They could be different. 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:08.400 The way clients talk to them will be different, the clients deal to them is different, the way they deal with suppliers could be different. 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:16.719 So we kind of make each thing that we put into the presentation unique to that particular organization. 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:21.840 And you can only do that by having proper open conversation with the client beforehand. 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.280 So that's what we do. 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:37.039 And so, yes, we work from a we do have a certain foundation set of material, but from that we develop everything which is uniquely catered, tailor-made, bespoke to that particular person. 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:47.199 So if I were to again draw resemblance or some similarity to tailoring, it's a bit like you'll have the cloth and the buttons and the thread, but every person's fitting is different. 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.960 So you need to make sure you need to get that right. 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:50.559 So that material's there. 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.760 Once you speak to them only, you know how you're going to get it fitted. 00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:56.079 And so that's probably what we do. 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.920 So now we've been in Sri Lanka for almost five, six years now. 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.320 What is the impact you are trying to make with the company and your mission that you're out after? 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.039 Sure. 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:21.119 So what I really want to do is to bring this whole thing about having understanding clients' needs prior to actually going and doing anything. 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:29.440 I mean, sad to say, I've seen in Sri Lanka there's a whole load of coaches, a whole load of training taking place, but lots of them seem to be one size fits all. 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.400 And I want this profession to move out of it. 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.199 Having said that, there's also good news. 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:49.599 Lots of coaches and trainers are also adopting something similar to what I do, where they don't have a one-size-fits-all, they actually are going and making sure what is developed and what is delivered solves client problems, customer problems. 00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:50.960 So we have both ends. 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:57.519 But I would like more people to shift to this side of the spectrum where we're actually serving a client's needs. 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.159 Learned this from my guru, Jeff. 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:01.119 We call him. 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.039 He said, whatever you do should be at the service of the client. 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.239 Otherwise, it's a waste for yourself as well as the client. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.159 You will get some money, but then are you going to grow as a professional? 00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.079 Are you going to grow your reputation? 00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:14.719 Right. 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:15.199 Right. 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:17.360 So this is one thing that I wish to do. 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:26.400 The second thing that I wish to do is to try to make this particular profession, particularly coaching, a little bit more affordable and available. 00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:27.199 Yes. 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:34.719 Lots of times the amounts quoted are quite high. 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.639 Now, yes, we need to make a living, don't get me wrong, and money is important. 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:44.159 But there is also a certain service element that comes with these two professions. 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:44.719 Absolutely. 00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:49.280 Maybe consulting, not so much, but from coaching and training, there's also a service element. 00:42:49.679 --> 00:43:03.599 So I make it a point when I do my discussions, especially the initial discovery discussions, if I feel even the slightest hint that the client may not be able to afford my standard fees, I don't quote those. 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:11.039 I try to find out from the client what could be something reasonable that they are willing to pay. 00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:12.480 And I would go with that. 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.039 Now, does that harm me financially? 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:16.000 Maybe. 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.400 In the short run, maybe. 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:19.840 But guess what? 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000 I have actually got a new friend. 00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:24.559 A new client, a new friend. 00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:25.039 Yes. 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:30.079 They become successful, is he or she is going to become my marketing team. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.840 Absolutely. 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.639 Absolutely. 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.599 That makes sense. 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:41.280 So instead of charging the full amount and spending a lot of time and effort on a marketing campaign, I would rather use this. 00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.039 The service aspect to it. 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.159 The service aspect of it. 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:48.639 So if you look at my LinkedIn profile, you will find very little mention of what I do. 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.440 You'll find very little mention of my coaching, my training. 00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.800 I I have on and off, I do some posts, but I'm not crazy on social media when it comes to this. 00:43:57.039 --> 00:43:59.599 I am

visible, but not every day. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:00.719 I'm happy to do this. 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:02.159 I don't do things like that. 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:03.840 Mainly because I don't need to. 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.440 I don't need to. 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:09.280 From my client base, I get new clients. 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.480 I get a lot of referrals. 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:13.360 I get a lot of people coming in, calling me. 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:15.840 Hey, I I I got your number from so and so. 00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.320 Can we have a chat? 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.920 So it's not always all about money. 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:29.039 So therefore, what I have something that I wish to do is to make sure that this becomes a lot more affordable. 00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.840 So a lot more people can benefit from this profession. 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.400 And once this broadbasing happens, Sharan, clients are just going to come in. 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.480 Currently, we are all fighting for a small pool of clients. 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:48.880 The blue chips, the sea suits, company, organization, business owners, perhaps. 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:49.679 And that's like what? 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.360 We are a country of 20 million people. 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.320 We are trying to fight for about 5,000 people. 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:54.800 Right. 00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:00.159 If we broadbase this and increase this 5,000 to 50,000 players, a lot more clients. 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:00.719 That's okay. 00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:02.400 Why don't we think about that? 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.039 Exactly. 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.079 That's one aspect. 00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:06.639 The other thing is Sri Lankan coaches. 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.480 Lots of us are focused just within Sri Lanka. 00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:12.400 I also work with outside clients. 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.119 I work with clients outside Sri Lanka. 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:22.239 I have a reasonable network that gets me referrals and a pipeline of clients from outside. 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:23.920 Why don't we also look at that? 00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:32.239 So whilst you can make it affordable locally, you can actually make your money internationally because you can be very competitive in the international market. 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.599 You know how much a rupee is worth, right? 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.320 A dollar gets us 300 rupees. 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:38.639 Right. 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:46.239 So if an international coach is charging, say$500 an hour, we don't need to go that far to make a lot of money. 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:47.599 Right, exactly. 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:54.400 So what I say is you make your money where you can, and then you drop your rates so that you can broadbase it locally. 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.320 So that's another thing that I would really like to get into. 00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.159 It's almost like a sustainability aspect. 00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:00.960 Aspect and to grow the grow the pot. 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.599 Currently we are just fighting for a very small pot. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:04.559 Why would you do that? 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:04.880 Right. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.920 Why would you do that? 00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:14.159 If you can grow the pot, then the market actually becomes a lot bigger, becomes a lot more affordable, and a lot more people will want your services. 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.719 If you don't do that, there is a danger. 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:26.159 The danger is that somebody is going to cater to that market at a lower price, and that may not be at the quality that the profession deserves. 00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:27.360 That's true. 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:37.760 That quality may drop, and therefore the credibility of the entire profession might come down. 00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:44.880 So those who can maintain the credibility should just need to think about sacrificing a bit and broad basing the client base sure. 00:46:45.599 --> 00:47:02.400 Finally, I always ask the guest at the end based on your life, based on everything you've done, mistakes and all somebody looking at this, watching this episode, and being inspired to take some steps, or they feel they're stuck in life. 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:04.159 What do you have to say to them? 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:12.480 So what I would suggest that you should be doing is look inwards, see what you truly want to do in the world. 00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:18.320 And over here, if you permit me, I could talk about this Japanese concept called ikigai. 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:19.360 Yes, I know that very well. 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:29.199 That's something that I actually applied to myself in figuring out where my ikigai, my purpose of living was, and which was in people development. 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:42.159 Similarly, every single one of you, if you answer those four questions that ikigai concept puts out, you will be able to figure out what really matters to you, what is the purpose of your respective lives. 00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:48.079 And trust me, when you get the answer to that and you focus on doing that, you will be in the right place. 00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:51.840 Sharon, I can't put it as simple more simpler than this. 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:54.639 I practice ikigai myself. 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:59.920 I do a lot of guy work when it comes to my coaching because I think it's quite powerful. 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:00.480 It is. 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.440 It's a very simple concept, but a very powerful concept. 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:11.920 I have even managed to, of course, it's not good for my profession as an accountant, but a couple of accountants have quit being accountants, have gotten into doing other things. 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:12.559 Right. 00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.159 Which is not bad. 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:14.480 Right.

00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:18.079 There's one accountant who decided to get into pottery. 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:20.800 Yeah, absolutely. 00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:22.400 Got into pottery. 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:22.800 Yeah. 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:24.559 And there's nothing wrong in that. 00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.280 You can still use your accounting knowledge in managing your business. 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:28.719 Absolutely. 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:30.880 No, I think that's the most beautiful thing, right? 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.039 Like in life, you you you collect all these skills, nothing is a waste. 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:41.039 And Kigai is one of those things I have personally practiced, like about 10 years ago or something like that. 00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:42.960 I saw on social media all over the place. 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:44.639 And I was like, this is interesting. 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:57.360 Now it took me a while to like really get to that point of figuring it out, but that practice of trying to figure it out got my mind to think in the terms of what do I really want to do? 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:58.400 What am I here to do? 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.719 What I you know, what am I loved to do, and things like that. 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:11.920 And I'm I'm happy to say I'm here doing what I'm loved to do, and and stories like yours and and especially being able to change and follow your curiosity, right? 00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:17.920 That's the thing that I admire the most about you, that you follow your curiosity even at 45 years old. 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.280 Like, and I I'm pretty sure you're gonna continue to do that for the rest of your life. 00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.199 Forhas, thank you so much for being on the podcast. 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:26.239 It was a pleasure. 00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:33.039 All I gotta say is that please comment below and some of the things that actually tug your heart and and let's start a conversation about this. 00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:38.480 Until next time, though, keep dreaming, keep creating, and keep going on your own creative Odyssey. 00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.000 Until next time, see you later. 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:44.079 We're so excited to share with you all the episodes that we filmed in Sri Lanka. 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:49.599 We know a lot of you have been waiting, but we wanted to make sure that we did this really meaningfully because it really was an exciting time. 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:55.039 When Sean first came to me and said he was gonna take the podcast to Sri Lanka, I honestly thought he was crazy. 00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.159 And so did I. 00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:00.719 I was like, is there any possibility we can fit this in? 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.440 I want to try to bring the podcast in, get to know people, and interview Peters. 00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:12.880 So we expected to have just a few conversations, maybe a little sparks of inspiration here and there, but what happened was so much deeper than that. 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:20.960 We met so many people that not only you got to interview, but that also like came alongside us to help make these conversations happen. 00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:26.159 The crazy thing was this daring idea of going to a country, even the one from Sri Lanka. 00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:37.599 I hadn't been back for like seven years, and all I knew was some people from school that I went to and some social media that I've been following, but didn't really have a concrete plan to make it happen. 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:47.519 And some days we had six, seven episodes back-to-back recorded because people were waiting and and and you were kind of facilitating that, yeah. 00:50:47.760 --> 00:51:07.119 Yeah, so it felt really significant because not only was it that we were having like these raw and authentic conversations, but a lot of their stories resonated with charmants, and so it just was really fascinating to see them speaking the same language and to see like just this commonality of creativity and identity and purpose coming out as the themes of these conversations. 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.760 You must be wondering when this trip happened. 00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:16.159 It happened in September, and uh the goal was to get these episodes out by December of last year. 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:23.760 Well, a lot of things happened, and I didn't want to diminish the work we put in and again the amazing gifts that we've had. 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.639 So we decided to do something really cool, and we're gonna post however many we can a week. 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.519 So, LinkedIn, every single episode, you'll find a free PDF. 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.280 It's actually a magazine that we developed. 00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:40.480 You can kind of think of it like if you go to a concert and you get like the souvenir of what happened behind the scenes and just about the different artists and all those things. 00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:49.199 We wanted to share with you not only about Sherman's journey, but then help you connect with some of the guests that we interview in Sri Lanka and then invite you on your own creative Odyssey. 00:51:49.519 --> 00:52:03.119 Yes, there's so much more that goes into or that fuels this podcast, which is this mission to inspire people to create so that they can get to know themselves and connect with their inner child. 00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:14.159 So to see that we could bring that story out of Sri Lankan creatives, a wide diverse range of creatives was definitely a highlight. 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:24.559 Our hope is that whether you're living in the States, you're living in Sri Lanka, or somewhere else around the world, you'll connect with someone's story within Sri Lanka and it might inspire you to continue on your own creative codes. 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:29.360 The link to the PDF for the magazine is in the description, and please check it out. 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:35.199 They're doing really cool things that I really think you should be checking out to see their journeys. 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.639 So, without further ado, let's get to the episode.