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Welcome to the Competitive Kindness Podcast.
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I'm your host, Rob Clark.
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What if the way you lead could change lives, not just results?
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We're building a movement, proving you can compete relentlessly for championships while elevating everyone around you.
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This is your competitive edge.
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Each episode will share stories and strategies to help you make an impact that lasts.
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So, if you're ready to win the right way, you're in the right place.
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Now let's get rolling.
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Have you ever heard anyone say, hey, just be yourself?
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But then it's quickly followed with, but don't be that real.
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In fairness, leadership does require us to calibrate our authenticity.
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But genuine authenticity isn't about changing who you are to fit every room.
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It's about consistency and how you show up, aligned with your standards and values.
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Because at some point you realize something fairly simple.
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When you stop trying to manage every perception in the room, you start to see more clearly where you actually fit.
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Not every environment is designed for every leadership style.
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And that's not a critique, it's an organizational reality.
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Strong cultures aren't built on identical personalities, they're built on shared values, aligned standards, and mutual trust.
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When that alignment exists, you don't spend energy on translating yourself, you spend it on executing, building, and improving the work.
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And that's where competitive kindness comes in.
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Competitive kindness is the discipline of holding high standards while maintaining high regard for who people really are.
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That's clarity with care, accountability with respect, and yes, sometimes it's being the only person in the room who gets fired up about certain standards.
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With this in mind, legendary football coach Nick Sabin said, Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people.
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So if everybody doesn't buy into the same principles and values of the organization at the same high standard, you're never going to be successful.
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That's not about division.
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It's about alignment of expectations and people.
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And genuine authenticity is one of the fastest ways to create that clarity.
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There are three practical ways to be a genuinely authentic leader.
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First, be consistent in your values, attitude, and effort.
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People shouldn't have to guess what version of you is showing up today.
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Consistency builds lasting trust faster than charisma ever will.
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Second, say what you mean and mean what you say with respect.
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Authenticity doesn't require volume, it requires clarity.
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You can be direct without being dismissive, and honest without being harmful.
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Uphold human dignity with kind clarity.
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Third, don't over-edit your strengths to make others more comfortable.
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Your intensity, your passion, your curiosity, your standards.
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Those are features, not flaws.
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The goal isn't to mute them, it's to channel them into accomplishing the mission.
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Honestly, trying to be someone you're not in leadership is only a recipe for disaster, and it's inefficient.
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Eventually, the real operating system shows up anyway.
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Your integrity or lack thereof will show up whether you like it or not.
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So the better approach is simple.
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Be clear, be consistent, be aligned, be yourself.
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Because the goal is not to be universally accepted.
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That's a full-time job with no upside.
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The goal is to be in environments where alignment exists, where your values, your standards, your leadership style are not just tolerated, but celebrated and harnessed for success.
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And that's when alignment's present.
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The leader, the organization, and its people will elevate.
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And that's the real power of genuine authenticity, not self-expression for its own sake, but alignment that creates a better outcome for everyone involved.
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Joining us today is Dr.
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Charles L.
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Welch, the seventh president and CEO of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities, which represents nearly 500 public colleges, universities, and systems, drives educational policy and is committed to student success, access, and regional economic impact across the United States.
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Dr.
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Welch is a first-generation college graduate and nationally respected leader in higher education.
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He previously led the Arkansas State University System, served as president of Henderson State University, and Chancellor at the University
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of Arkansas Community College at Hope.
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Throughout his career, he's been a passionate advocate for access, student success, and the transformational power of public higher education.
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Dr.
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Welch, welcome to the Competitive Kindness Podcast.
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Thanks, Rob.
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I'm glad to be with you.
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Everyone has a story and would love to hear yours.
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What's a moment or an experience that shaped who you are today?
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So when I really think about my career, this is certainly not something that I planned or intended on working in higher education.
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When we have groups of higher education administrators together, I will ask for a show of hands of how many people went to college planning to become a college administrator.
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And I've never yet had a hand go up.
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I mean, I think it just sort of happened naturally and organically.
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And that certainly was the case for me.
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I was I always had these dreams of going to law school and then entering the political arena and running for public office.
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And I had been president of the student body in high school, and then I was president of the student body at the University of Arkansas, and so I was really getting everything exactly where I wanted it to be.
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I was a first generation college student, and so it really was a very impactful and transformative experience for me, but still never really thought about this career until I went in my junior year to meet with my academic advisor and chart out my course schedule.
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And I'll never forget she uh her name was Diane Blair, she's deceased now.
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She was actually Hillary and Bill Clinton's, um she was actually Hillary's maid of honor or matron of honor at at their wedding.
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And her husband was the general counsel of Titans and incredibly bright and accomplished and just very strong individual.
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And so we sat down there and we're going through the classroom and she said, So what comes next?
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What are you gonna do after you graduate?
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And I said, Well, I'm gonna go to law school.
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And she just stopped and she looked at me and she said, Do you want to be a lawyer?
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And Rob, nobody had ever really asked me that question.
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And I never really thought about, do you want to practice law?
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And so I looked at her and I said, Well, you know, I want to, I'm thinking about maybe doing politics.
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And she said, No, I asked you, do you want to practice law?
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And I struggled, obviously, trying to answer the question.
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And she said, I tell you what, I don't think you're a lawyer.
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I don't think you would be happy practicing law.
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She said, I want you to go home and let's meet again in a week or so, and I want you to think about something else you might possibly do.
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So I went home and I'm thinking, man, that is the meanest woman I have ever met in my life.
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I can't believe she said that to me.
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I mean, she's so off base.
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And I thought about it.
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And the more I thought about it, I realized, yeah, she was mean.
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She was tearing me up.
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But then I also realized she was exactly right.
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That I didn't want to be an attorney.
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I didn't want to practice law.
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I saw it as a means to an end of running for office.
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So I went back in and met with her and she said, Well, what'd you come up with?
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And and I said, having been president of the student body, I had the opportunity to work very closely with administrators on campus.
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And the chancellor at that time was one of my mentors and remains one of my mentors to the day.
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And I said, maybe higher education administration might be something because obviously you get to impact and influence lives.
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I'm a first generation.
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It combines some of those political elements and things that I said, that's what you need to do.
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And it was really from that day forward that I really never thought about anything else.
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And I'm so incredibly thankful and grateful for someone like her who was just brutally honest with me, who saw in me what I couldn't see or wasn't considering, and really helped determine my life's passion and mission and direction.
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And it certainly completely changed the course of my life, and I'm very grateful for it.
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Incredible.
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The role of the university president is a 24-7 constant demand and a lot of emotional weight.
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What has kept you centered when the role gets heavy?
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First of all, you have to have a sense of humor.
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You have to be able to laugh at yourself.
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You have to be able to let things slide off your back.
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--> 00:10:02.639
One of the things that I tell incoming presidents or new presidents is you've got to really develop a thick skin.
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And the other thing that I tell them is typically people are criticizing the position, not the person.
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You really have to remind yourself of that.
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But what really grounds me is my family.
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I have three daughters.
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I have two in college and one who's in high school.
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And to me, that is the one thing.
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Number one, they can be brutally honest.
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They love to remind me of how my hair has fallen out or my waistline has expanded or any of those kinds of things that it brings you back to reality because these positions you get a lot of people telling you how great you are sometimes or kind of trying to build you up and they can bring you down really quickly.
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But it also helps you to remain centered on realizing what is really the most important in your life.
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Because as you say, this could consume you.
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I I think back to when I got my second presidency at Henderson State University, I was 34 years old.
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So I was a very non-traditional in a number of respects, but certainly from an age standpoint.
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And I got a call from a man named Dino Curris.
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Dino had been the president of Murray State University, and then he had gone on and was the president of Clemson University.
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And then at that time, ironically, he was president of Act, the organization I'm president of now.
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And he called me just out of the blue one day.
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I did not know Dino, but he called me and he said, Chuck, I promise I'm not some kind of creeper, but he said, I read about your appointment, and it struck me because of your age.
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He said, I was actually 35 when I became president of Murray State.
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And he said, I realized that there's not a lot of us out there that have to deal with that or that age thing.
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And he said, I want to give you a piece of unsolicited advice.
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And he said, That piece of advice is this.
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He said, I'm 65 now.
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So it's been 30 years since I was the president of Murray State.
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And he said, I now realize that nobody at Murray State knows who the hell Dino Curris is anymore.
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But my kids remember every dance recital and baseball game that I missed.
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And he said, Chuck, don't get it backwards.
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And it really was a slap in the face for me because especially when you're young, I mean, you're going to go slay the world and you're so aggressive and you want to just be and do everything.
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But it really helped me to remember what's important.
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And so when I have a horrible day, when I have a day that I'm just feeling I'm beaten up or things are going poor to me, just to go home and take your daughter out for pizza or watch a TV show with her or scroll TikTok videos with them or something like that.
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It just brings you back to realizing, you know what?
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I can have a bad day at work, but my number one job on the third is to be their dad, not to be a president.
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And so it keeps me grounded.
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It helps me to put things in perspective.
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And it also helps me to get back to that center of what is the most important in my life.
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I love that.
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Family first.
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Absolutely.
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The role of the university president's multifaceted.
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What's part of the presidency that people don't see but quietly shapes how you lead daily?
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It's the personal story and the journey.
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What you yourself, those lived experiences that you've had that really drive who you are and how you lead.
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It's really been interesting to me through the years that the way people perceive presidents, we're almost seen as like these mythical figures that we're never 18 years old, that never made mistakes in our life, that don't have personal issues, that don't sleep and eat and those kinds of things.
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I've had so many people say to me through the years, you don't look like a university president.
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What does that look like, right?
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There's there's sort of this predetermined you're gonna have on a tweed suit and be older and that sort of thing.
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And I'll never forget one time I have a really good friend of mine who was leading a program at a community college for young African-American males to try to increase the college graduation rate.
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He called me one day and he said, Hey, I want you to come tell your story to my cohort.
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And I said, Why?
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And he said, Because Chuck, they look at you and they don't see your reality.
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And I said, I don't understand what you mean.
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And he said, Well, they look at you and they think, this guy's the president.
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He got his first
presidency at 31 years old, he's had three presidents now and he's 37 years old, or whatever I was.
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And he said, they think your daddy must have been best friends with the governor, or you were born extremely wealthy, or whatever the case may be.
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They don't realize that you had an illiterate grandfather, that your father didn't graduate from high school.
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They don't realize that your dad is a truck driver, your mom's a stay-at-home mom.
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They don't realize that you had student loans and they don't see that.
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It really taught me a lesson about telling your story and making sure people understand your journey was also complicated and messy, just like so many of our students are.
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And that it really helped define who you are.
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I had somebody say to me one time, I don't understand how you're so comfortable in a room full of faculty, but you're also comfortable in a room full of individuals that aren't formally educated.
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And I think that comes from my upbringing because I was surrounded by a diverse society.
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And I remember my dad saying to me one time, if I ever catch you treating the mayor any differently than you do the person that picked up our trash, I'm gonna whip your ear in, kind of thing.
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And that personal story and journey, and that's something people miss out on, and they develop these preconceived notions about who you are or who you aren't and what you haven't done.
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And if they really do that story and what went into decisions and that sort of thing, I think it might give people a little bit different perspective of the person.
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Yeah, and let's get a little bit deeper into that too, here.
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As Vlad is a university president now as the CEO of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities.
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What does meaningful connection actually look like for a university president in today's environment?
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To me, it's about a real connection, a real deep connection that that isn't just a surface level, good morning, Rob, how are you?
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And keep on walking.
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But rather knowing your family story, knowing your children, knowing about you and what you're going through, and being sensitive to that.
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When people feel like you care about them, when people feel like you really truly do have a relatability and a connection, I feel like they'll go through a fire for you.
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And so I really try to make sure that it develops.
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And when I run into one of my employees, I ask about their spouse or I ask about their kids, or if I found out their dog just passed away, or whatever the case may be.
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I think social media is making this even harder and email and things of that nature.
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Sometimes the connections are just very surface level.
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And the truth of the matter is it needs to be really deep.
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And you need to be able to show them your warts.
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You need to be able to show them I'm having a bad day, or admit when you're wrong, or apologize, or really help to relate to, hey, I get what you're going through.
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I had to deal with this once and that sort of thing.
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And so it's a really important part of who I try to be as a leader.
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Now, I certainly fail at it sometimes, and it is not as good as I want to be, but it's something that it's something that just happened in the last two weeks.
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We have uh an employee that is working for us on a temporary basis, although we're planning to transition them to full-time.
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And I was introduced to the individual.
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They work in our finance division.
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And our vice president for finance came in and said, Thank you for what you did yesterday.
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And I said, What did I do yesterday?
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And she said that the employee came in and said, Dr.
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Welch walked by my desk and called me by name and wished me a good rest of the day.
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And she was blown away by that.
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And I said to my vice president, I was like, I don't understand, right?
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I mean, that's just what I do.
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And she said, you know, it meant something to her that you not only said, have a great day, but you called her by name.
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And so it just reinforced to me that stuff's important.
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It's that attention, it's that real connection, and it's that ability to not take yourself too seriously and joke and have fun, and that I think really creates a much, much better work environment.
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I don't want people to be afraid of me.
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Now, if I need to make a tough decision and be a supervisor and do the things that need to be done, I can do that.
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But at the same time, I also want them to feel like it's a familial and collegial environment.
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And I just think that creates those connections that are real and meaningful.
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That's great.
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And and furthermore, how does a president model that humanity and
accountability simultaneously?
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It's through communication.
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You have to talk to your employees, you have to get out of your office and not just talk work, right?
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We had a long conversation yesterday about cooking and what people like to eat.
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There was a big deal about who likes doubled eggs and who doesn't, right?
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I mean, pretty lowbrow kinds of things, but it's stuff that you get out and you communicate if they feel like, hey, there's a realness here.
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And so that helps with that humanity piece of it.
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.720
And then transparency is so important.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.880
I'll never forget in one of my presidencies, I got the budget book.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:17.519
And when I went through the budget book, it had everything listed line by line: travel budget, salaries, of course, the public institution, supplies and services.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.640
The only budget lines that were empty were in the office of the president.
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.359
And when I questioned it, the response I got was, oh, well, you can't put that out there.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:36.720
If people saw how much your travel budget is, or people saw how much your supplies budget is, whatever the case may be, and honestly, they weren't crazy numbers.
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:41.279
And I said to the person, I said, Look, the first of all, the numbers aren't that bad.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:51.920
And secondly, if we don't put it out there, then they'll create in their own minds what they think it is, which will be far worse than reality, and will make this much worse.
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.000
If you just put it out there, yeah, there might be two or three people that complain, but you know what?
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.279
They'll be over it tomorrow.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.559
And so I've always been in the mindset of share more, even if it's even if it's bad.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.079
I had an employee say one time to me, I want to apologize.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:14.880
I've been really critical of some decisions you've made, and I realized that I didn't even understand the full context of the decision.
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:23.680
So I think transparency, I think that communication, empathy, you have to realize what's happening to people and try to think about that.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.759
Humility, you have to be very genuine and authentic.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:29.680
And you have to be able to admit you're wrong.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.359
I think that's part of the accountability thing.
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:32.720
Look, folks, I screwed this up.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.519
I'm not perfect, and I'm sorry, and I'm gonna try to do better.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.799
And I think when you do that, people realize hey, we're all in that boat together.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:40.319
You can't be afraid to fail.
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:46.559
Right behind my desk, I have a picture with a Wayne Gretzky quote, but the quote is, you know, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.319
And uh so I'm a big believer, you've got to take the shot to score.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:54.240
And since it's athletics here, Michael Jordan missed more shots than he made.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.519
And he's still considered the at least I still consider him the GOAT.
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.880
And I try to do that here too.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:03.759
You gotta take shots, and then when it's wrong, you've got to admit it and be transparent and communicate with your folks.
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.400
And when you do that, I feel like they'll run through fire for you.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:07.200
Incredible.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.960
You just listed every foundational principle of competitive kindness.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:12.880
There you go.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.240
It's so the load is heavy that presidents carry.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:21.359
How have you learned about managing not just your time but your energy to be your best?
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:30.799
One of the things that I say to presidents a lot, um, of course, when I was a system president, I had multiple campus chancellors that that I worked with.
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:37.680
And certainly now in this role, I visit with presidents a lot, particularly newer presidents who are still cutting their teeth in the position.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.759
And I constantly say to them, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:46.160
You cannot complete everything you want to complete in your first year.
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:47.680
You should not do that, right?
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.599
You've got to play the long game, you've got to pace yourself.
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.200
Don't burn yourself out.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.759
Find time for you, find time for your relationship with your spouse or partner, find time for that.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.599
Family connection.
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.519
And you also have to listen to those around you and see it.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:12.720
My wife will frequently say, Why don't you go drink beer with your friends tomorrow after work?
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.000
And the first time she did it, I was like, What the heck is this about?
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.240
Right.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.920
I mean, she's encouraging me to go out to happy hour and that kind of thing.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.000
But then what I understood is she could see I was wearing down.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.359
She could see that the stress was getting to me, the energy.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:35.839
And she knew that one of the things that filled my bucket is hanging out with my friend and laughing and joking and talking
about sport and having a beer.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.640
And so she could see what I couldn't, right?
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.960
It's really about just taking your time, pacing yourself, not being too hard on yourself.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.920
But then also, what are those things that restore you?
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.599
For some people, it's working out.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.599
It that should be for me, but it's not.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.680
For some people, it's hanging out with friends.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.200
For some people, it's sleeping.
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:58.880
For some people, it's traveling, reading, whatever it is.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.880
Just make sure you bake that in.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:06.160
My assistant is really good of having times on my calendar that are non-negotiable.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.559
They're just, she is not scheduling something.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.079
It's time for me to think, it's time for me to take a nap.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:13.839
It's time for me to do whatever.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:22.720
And I think that you have to be very intentional about it, because if you're not, then yes, it can overwhelm you, you'll burn yourself out, and you certainly won't be the best leader that you can be.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:23.440
Great.
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:23.839
Dr.
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.119
Welch, we're going to shift gears here to college athletics.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.640
College athletics is redefining its identity right now.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:37.359
What are some of your greatest concerns and what recommendations do you have for the future of college athletics?
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.000
I'm very concerned.
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:46.559
I I think we've lost sight of what intercollegiate athletics is supposed to be.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:53.279
I think that the term student athlete has 100% gotten reversed.
00:23:53.599 --> 00:24:06.720
It was always petered in some areas, but we've professionalized intercollegiate athletics so much that the lines are so blurred between college basketball and the NBA, for example.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:13.039
And I think that the sustainability is a great concern to me.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:23.839
There are 10 or 20 programs that are not as concerned about sustainability, although I would submit everybody has some concern about it and should have some concern about it.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:29.359
But there are far more institutions out there that aren't even anywhere close to that 10 or 20.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:30.720
People talk about the P4.
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.480
In many respects, it's the P2.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:34.880
I mean, it's the you know the FCC, the Big Ten.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:42.880
You think about the group of five, you think about FCS, you think about Division II, you think about Division III.
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:52.000
Those are sports and programs that have
provided opportunities to go to college for students who otherwise may not have been able to go.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:25:01.839
They have provided much higher rates of return in terms of student success and graduation rates through the years than the normal student populations have.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:09.839
They provided that beautiful competitive spirit that college athletics always had that the pros could never replicate.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:18.079
They provided that greatest connection with the alumni base and with the advancement offices, that front door to the university.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:19.839
And I think it's all at risk right now.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:36.799
When we start to hear about SEC programs announcing, hey, we're going to begin canceling Olympic sports because it's all based on a win-loss revenue model, and it's all based on how much NIL can we get for the biggest revenue generating sports.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.160
Is that really what intercollegiate athletics is supposed to be?
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.559
Is that really providing that benefit that was there?
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:43.920
I'm a huge sports fan.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:53.279
I'm a huge college athletics fan, but I'm really worried that it's already becoming something that is not recognizable and that's getting worse every day.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:59.839
So I certainly don't have uh a magic wand where I can just wave it and say, here's the answer.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:02.880
But I think the advice is let's get back to the why.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:11.920
And I think the why of college athletics is providing access, it's providing opportunities, it's enhancing the ability to be successful and earn a college degree.
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:17.759
Because the other thing is we realize the vast majority of student athletes are not going to play at the professional level.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.079
And it's about having that connector with alumni and the student body.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:29.200
And until I think we're able to recalibrate, it may be too far gone, but to me, it's a great concern.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.119
It's a constant conversation.
00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:36.559
The score act from a federal policy issue is the one that we've talked about here in great detail.
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:50.960
Many of our campuses are very concerned about it because, again, those campuses out there that athletics is really a lifeblood of access and affordability and school spirit and connection, they're not going to be able to keep up in the NIL arms race.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:56.559
And what does that mean ultimately, not only for their programs, but for those student athletes?
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.119
And so it's one of the things that keeps me awake at night.
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:01.680
You say go back to our why.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.119
How can athletic directors and coaches better align with university presidents?
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:18.400
Those relationships have to be intentional, they have to be consistent, and they have to be very transparent and frank.
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:29.119
One of the things that I loved in my most recent position course, I was president of a system, and then our campuses had a chancellor, and then, of course, had the athletic director, and then let's say the football coach.
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:33.519
So for the football coach, I would have been their boss's boss's boss, right?
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:35.359
So I was several steps away.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.440
But that's not the way we treated it.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:45.839
And in every search process that we did, it was the athletic director, it was the chancellor, and it was me.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:59.359
Now, the chancellor and I both agreed the athletic director was the one taking the lead on this, but our role was to give him very strong and frank and direct feedback about candidates or direction.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.640
And we certainly did not always agree.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.359
We certainly looked at it through different lens.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:19.200
But what I found is once we were able to develop those relationships that then extended onto the actual coaches that we hired, I still maintain relationship with some of our former coaches at our institution.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:32.160
It helped when you needed to make tough decisions about, hey, we got to cut this budget, or hey, we're gonna allocate you an extra amount of money, or we can't give you that extra on-field coach that you want right now, or whatever that case might be.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:41.440
So if it helped us to make sure that although we might not agree on every single point that we understood, we met monthly and went over the budget and looked at expenditures.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.960
They pulled me into that too.
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.039
It's always felt like that was very healthy.
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:57.759
And we had multiple coaches during the interview processes say to us, well, we see a system head, a campus chancellor, and the AD all on the same page and with a genuine relationship.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.640
That's the kind of environment we want to work in.
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:09.599
Sometimes there's too much distance between those different players, and that can sometimes lead to some of the real challenges that exist on an individual campus.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:10.400
Dr.
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.720
Welch, we're gonna shift gears one more time here.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.480
One of our favorite segments called the Fast and Friendly Five.
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:21.599
So I'm gonna ask you five quick questions, no long pauses, just got answers.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:22.480
You ready?
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.039
Okay.
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.160
All right, hit me.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:29.519
All right, number one,
go to hype music, artist or song when you need a boost.
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.519
I'm a country music fan, but I don't know that that would be hype.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:39.119
One of my all-time favorite songs is Uptown Funk by Bruno Mars because it's just that beat.
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.319
But I like some Eminem or some pit bull or things like that.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.880
So that kind of gives you an idea of that uh heavy rhythm and and real fast movie.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.119
That's what kind of gives me a jolt because country can be a little crying your beer sometimes.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:52.799
So uh probably have to play one of those.
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:53.279
There you go.
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:56.079
Tim McGraw can get you going sometimes, though.
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:57.839
I don't know if he can.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.079
That's I'm a McGraw fan, too.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:05.119
All right, number two, go to movie when you need inspiration.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:07.200
Oh, that was easy.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.680
Movie I've seen more times than any other one in my life is Boys in the Hood.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:23.759
I just think it is such a beautiful movie that tells such a moving story about the importance of parenting, about the importance of education, and what can happen.
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:25.519
And I've watched that movie so many times.
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:29.839
There's so much symbolism in it, and I just it's an all-time favorite.
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:31.680
And I watch it frequently.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.319
Great.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:36.640
Number three, one or two books that have impacted who you are.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:41.839
So I'm a biography reader or autobiography reader.
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:51.279
I like to read real authentic human stories and what drove people that were successful or unsuccessful as the case may be.
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:58.000
One summer I read the biographies of Sam Walton, the founder of Walmart, and Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon.
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:07.519
And while they were two very different individuals, very different eras, the one thing I took from both of their stories were they were not interested in doing what other people were doing and doing it better.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.079
They were interested in doing what nobody else was doing.
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:11.519
So that's helped drive me.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.720
I've read a lot of political books.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:18.160
Lyndon Johnson is someone that I've read a lot of biographies about and am fascinated with.
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:19.440
He had lots of warpers.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:24.880
There's lots of things I didn't like about him, but he was a white southerner who got civil rights tax bills passed in the 60s.
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:26.720
That's not an easy lift, right?
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:35.279
And I try to read those biographies and learn from those people that maybe can help me with my own decision making and thought processing.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:39.759
Number four, best leadership advice you've received.
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:42.880
It's always about people.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.880
Everything comes down to people.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:51.039
Taking care of your people, understanding your people, making decisions on what's going to be best for your people.
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.119
That does not always mean it's the most popular thing.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:59.759
It does not mean it's going to be universally good for every single person, but really trying to make decisions on what's the best for the most.
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:09.359
Always trying to make a decision through the lens of how will this affect our students, how will this affect our staff, how will this affect our alumni and our community, and bringing it back to that.
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:16.559
If you make decisions that you believe are in the best interest of the most people, rarely are you going to make the worst decisions.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.839
Number five, who's a leader who shaped you and why?
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:31.279
I had a lot of great mentors, but the one person who had the biggest impact on my life from a mentorship and leadership standpoint was Alan Sugg.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.319
Dr.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:36.000
Sugg was the longtime president of the University of Arkansas system.
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:42.400
And he's someone who saw something in me very early on that really, I think, helped propel me to where I am.
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:47.440
He's the one that called me when I was 31 years old and said, I want to make you a chance for it.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:49.200
And he had no business doing that.
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.359
I was as green as a gourd, right?
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:53.279
But he trusted that I could do it.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:33:03.680
And I saw in him that humanity, that humility, that genuineness that I wanted to replicate and that kindness.
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:11.279
And he's somebody that has really played a huge role in my life, and I'm so grateful for.
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000
You survived the fast and friendly five.
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:15.200
Congratulations.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:16.319
Thank you.
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:18.079
That was nerve-wracking.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.839
You did great.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:31.359
Be you.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:33.519
Be who you are.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:40.960
Don't try to be something that you think you're supposed to be or that others think that you're supposed to be.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:43.519
Folks will see through that very quickly.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.759
I think a genuineness and an authenticity is so important.
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.519
I don't like to wear ties, Rob.
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:54.319
And I tell people if you see me
in a tie, I'm either testifying before Congress or I'm in a casket.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:57.119
Because that's just not that's not who I am.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.880
And I've had people be critical before.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.359
Well, don't you think as a president you should be wearing a tie?
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:03.200
Well, that that's not Chuck.
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.079
And I think about my own family experiences.
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.839
My dad wasn't somebody that wore a tie.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.480
And I consider him one of the brightest people I've ever known.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:15.519
So I've always really tried to just be who I am, be approachable, be relatable.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.679
I tell new president, you define the position.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.320
The position doesn't define you.
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:36.239
And one of my all-time favorite stories is when I was a president, and that is non-Southerners may not understand this terminology here, but we lived in a dry county, which uh obviously meant that there weren't alcohol sales in that county.
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:41.280
And while I was president of this institution, the voters changed it so that you could buy alcohol.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:46.639
And I had an employee say to me, Have you purchased any alcohol since it since that happened?
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:48.000
And I said, Yeah.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:54.800
And they said, You didn't go in the store and buy it on your own, did you, yourself?
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.679
And my response was, would it have been better for my eight-month pregnant wife to go in and buy it?
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:00.719
I mean, uh, right.
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:02.480
I mean, you know, that's who I am.
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.599
I I like to have a glass of wine or I like to have a beer.
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:07.760
I'm not going to be falling down in the street.
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.559
I'm not that, but I'm not ashamed by that.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.719
And I want to be real and authentic.
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:21.360
So I think the best way that you can lead is by showing who you are, being willing to admit mistakes, being humble, being genuine.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:22.960
People will respond to that.
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:24.320
People will see that.
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:25.199
Hey, you know what?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:30.320
He's not trying to put on airs or live in an ivory tower or whatever the case may be.
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:33.679
And they respond, and it's worked very well for me.
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.639
It's something that if everybody did it, we would have some better leadership stories.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:39.519
Dr.
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:45.199
Wells, this has been inspiring, uh authentic, and just a fantastic time together.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:49.199
Thank you so much for being on the Competitive Kindness Podcast.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:55.039
Hey, Rob, I appreciate the opportunity, appreciate what you do, and wish you all the best.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:00.639
Thanks for tuning in.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:06.960
If today's episode got you fired up, please check out the book Competitive Kindness: Winning the Right Way.
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.960
Available on Amazon.
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:14.400
Join the competitive kindness movement by sharing this with your friends, family, and colleagues.
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:20.320
Also, I would love to connect with you, so please share your thoughts or stories with me on LinkedIn or on X.
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My handle there is at Rob Clark10.
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Remember, dare to lead differently.
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Dare to be kind.