התמלול המלא של CONSTRUCTION

look, something new is going up. 00:02:37.939 --> 00:02:40.699 And just as often, something old is coming down. 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:43.939 Renovations, teardowns, full -scale rebuilds. 00:02:43.939 --> 00:02:47.379 It's a constant churn. And that churn shows up 00:02:47.379 --> 00:02:50.310 in the numbers. Every year, Philadelphia issues 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:54.870 around 64 ,000 building permits. That's a huge 00:02:54.870 --> 00:02:57.550 amount of activity for a city our size. And with 00:02:57.550 --> 00:02:59.650 all that building and rebuilding comes a massive 00:02:59.650 --> 00:03:01.629 waste stream that most people never think about. 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:05.129 In the United States, we produce more than 600 00:03:05.129 --> 00:03:08.389 million tons of construction and demolition waste 00:03:08.389 --> 00:03:11.770 every year. That's more than twice the amount 00:03:11.770 --> 00:03:14.629 of regular household trash Americans throw out 00:03:14.629 --> 00:03:17.189 nationwide year over year. And here's the kicker. 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:20.879 roughly 145 million tons of that C &D waste ends 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.340 up in landfills. In fact, C &D materials make 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:26.900 up about 40 % of everything going into landfills 00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:31.020 nationwide. Which means, if we want to talk seriously 00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:33.780 about circularity, climate, and clean neighborhoods, 00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:36.960 we have to talk about construction and demolition 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.240 waste. So in this episode, we're digging into 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.759 what's driving all of this material, what happens 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:43.740 to it once it leaves a job or demolition site, 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.740 and what Philadelphia can do differently. Because 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:50.840 inside that rubble and debris is one of the biggest 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.819 circular economy opportunities our city has. 00:03:54.219 --> 00:03:56.840 That's right. Our first guest is Alan Burns, 00:03:57.139 --> 00:03:59.120 owner of Richard S. Burns Recycling Company. 00:03:59.740 --> 00:04:01.560 He's been working for decades to keep materials 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.159 out of landfills and in circulation, from metals 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.939 to wood to concrete. We're going to hear how 00:04:06.939 --> 00:04:09.300 his company navigates the challenges and opportunities 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:12.400 of C &D recycling in Philadelphia. Let's dive 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:14.879 in and hear from Alan about what it really takes 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.680 to turn what most people see as rubble into resources. 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.540 My name is Alan Burns, and we are at Richard 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:30.040 S. Burns & Company in North Philadelphia. Well, 00:04:30.139 --> 00:04:32.560 we're primarily construction material recycling. 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:37.040 We do dumpsters, drop -off service, and tomby 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:42.230 carts. My father started as a sole proprietor, 00:04:42.329 --> 00:04:45.649 basically doing cleanouts, salvaging, kinda like 00:04:45.649 --> 00:04:48.189 a scrapping kind of thing. He used to go around 00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:51.310 when he was younger and pick up recyclables out 00:04:51.310 --> 00:04:55.990 of the waste stream. 79 or 80 or so, he bought 00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:58.730 a rag and junk shop located at the corner of 00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:01.269 Rising Center Bristol called Harry's Rag and 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.170 Junk. And he started buying non -ferrous metal. 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:08.069 He also had a, he had a roll -off truck at that 00:05:08.069 --> 00:05:11.779 time. So he had some commercial accounts and 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:15.639 he had some construction accounts. After buying 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:19.220 Harry's, Waste Management came into the picture 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:21.920 somewhere in the beginning of the 80s and they 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:26.779 started buying out landfills and things like 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:31.120 that and so the game became to get a little competitive 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.480 at that point. I mean it's hard to say whether 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:40.459 my dad was just that cheap. or he had a lot of 00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:45.040 foresight, but my dad was very thrifty. I mean, 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:48.519 he just was very good with money, and he didn't 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.420 want to pay to dump something that he didn't 00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:53.839 have to pay to dump. That's what it came down 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:58.319 to. When waste management started to raise the 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:00.660 fees, before it was so cheap to dump it, it didn't 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:02.120 really matter what you were doing, but waste 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.259 management came and they raised the tipping fees 00:06:04.259 --> 00:06:07.269 to landfills so high that it was like... you 00:06:07.269 --> 00:06:11.209 really can't afford to dump with the amount of 00:06:11.209 --> 00:06:13.689 money that we were charging our customers. So 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:15.790 my dad, we dumped the load out on the ground 00:06:15.790 --> 00:06:18.850 in our yard, the rag and junk shop that he bought, 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:22.209 and we'd say, well, hey, there's cardboard. I 00:06:22.209 --> 00:06:24.490 can send that over to DeRazio, the iron. I can 00:06:24.490 --> 00:06:27.170 send that over to Richmond. The concrete, Winsinger 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:29.129 just opened up a concrete recycling plant. I 00:06:29.129 --> 00:06:31.470 can take that over to Winsinger. So there was 00:06:31.470 --> 00:06:35.649 a lot of materials that didn't need to go to 00:06:35.649 --> 00:06:39.379 the landfill. Then my father and my older sister 00:06:39.379 --> 00:06:42.680 took a tour around the country to see how other 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.560 people are

managing recyclable materials. And 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.120 that was probably 82. My dad, they were driving 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.180 down the highway and they seen this machine that 00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:56.379 was shredding up alfalfa. And my dad pulled over, 00:06:56.660 --> 00:06:59.339 went to take a look at it and said, wow, you 00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:01.759 know, if we beef this up, I can get it to do 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:05.040 wood. So we started to grind wood and... used 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:08.500 it as boiler fuel and bulking agents for sewage 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:12.420 treatment. And it just kept evolving kind of 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:18.800 from there. Another interesting story, I never 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:21.000 liked school. I worked for my dad in the summer 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.100 and I did construction work. And when I'd come 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:28.139 out of school, I couldn't figure out what they 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:32.699 were teaching me in school, how that played into 00:07:32.699 --> 00:07:35.860 what I was doing at work. and nothing seemed 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:38.120 to match. So I was like, why am I going to school? 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.759 Everything I learned in school doesn't have anything 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:43.399 to do with what I'm doing at work. I dropped 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:45.839 out in the ninth grade, and I went to work full 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.959 time for my dad. And I learned everything here 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.259 at Burns Company, working with attorneys, accountants, 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:55.500 consultants. I mean, just the whole gamut that 00:07:55.500 --> 00:07:58.339 you deal with in business, that made sense to 00:07:58.339 --> 00:08:02.899 me. I own Richard S. Burns & Company. I'm the 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:05.500 second generation owner. And then we have 100 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:07.620 employees. When I first started here, there was 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:11.100 five of us. And now we're a little over 100. 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:17.680 So in the 80s, there was no equipment out there 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.000 to recycle. There was nobody really recycling 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:23.300 or doing what we wanted to do. There was no software. 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:27.959 So we had to create things. And then with creating 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:31.170 things, you have to accept failure. because you're 00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:33.009 gonna create something and it's not gonna work 00:08:33.009 --> 00:08:35.070 and then you have to do it again and then it 00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:37.350 may not work again and then two or three years 00:08:37.350 --> 00:08:38.789 later you're thinking well geez you know what 00:08:38.789 --> 00:08:40.909 I should have did it this way and you end up 00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:43.690 redoing it three or four times. So it was all 00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:49.230 just you know an evolution. Trial and error right? 00:08:52.289

--> 00:08:54.830 We deal with anywhere from small contractors 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:57.409 to the largest contractors and everything in 00:08:57.409 --> 00:09:00.580 between. So a small contractor that comes into 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:04.879 our facility with a construction load that he 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:07.179 remodeled somebody's house. He comes in here, 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:10.179 he'll get weighed, he'll go to a tipping area, 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:12.659 they unload their materials and then they go 00:09:12.659 --> 00:09:14.879 way out. And then they grab their free pretzel 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:20.200 and water and they leave. So when your material 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.279 comes to our facility, it gets dumped down on 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.840 the ground. Nobody touches that load until it 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.450 is 100 % sorted. because that's the cleanest 00:09:27.450 --> 00:09:29.649 it's ever going to be. If I move it or touch 00:09:29.649 --> 00:09:32.049 it from there, it's only going to get worse, 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:35.690 right? So I invented these sorties, and we put 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:37.789 the sorties right next to the load, and the guys, 00:09:37.809 --> 00:09:39.490 there's three guys that go through the load, 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:41.610 it takes them maybe a half an hour, 45 minutes 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:43.610 to pull all the recyclables out of the load. 00:09:44.309 --> 00:09:48.509 Every sortie is for a different commodity. Then 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:51.269 I can take the sortie over to a scale and weigh 00:09:51.269 --> 00:09:54.269 it and re - report back to you accurately how 00:09:54.269 --> 00:09:57.049 many pounds of material came out of your specific 00:09:57.049 --> 00:09:59.730 load. And then those sorties deliver the commodities 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:03.570 to wherever their next destination is. We have 00:10:03.570 --> 00:10:07.669 these surge piles, like for a concrete crusher 00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:10.809 or for iron and for cardboard. Before they get 00:10:10.809 --> 00:10:12.789 further processed, we store them up in a pile. 00:10:12.889 --> 00:10:15.350 And when the pile gets big enough, then we process 00:10:15.350 --> 00:10:18.149 the pile. The Tommy carts are the kind of same 00:10:18.149 --> 00:10:22.610 thing. So we invented the Tommy carts here. The 00:10:22.610 --> 00:10:25.250 Tommy carts go right to the job site. You wheel 00:10:25.250 --> 00:10:28.409 it right up to the working face, wherever you're 00:10:28.409 --> 00:10:32.669 working at. You load the Tommy cart up. You take 00:10:32.669 --> 00:10:34.610 it down the loading dock. I pick it up with a 00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:37.649 box truck. They have barcodes on them so I know 00:10:37.649 --> 00:10:40.250 where it came from. I know what job site it came 00:10:40.250 --> 00:10:44.669 from. It comes back to my facility. We scan the 00:10:44.669 --> 00:10:47.789 cart. It populates a computer system. I weigh 00:10:47.789 --> 00:10:50.720 it. It dumps it on the conveyor line. and there's 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.659 sorters that pick the material out. So there's 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:54.500 only two people that touch the load, there's 00:10:54.500 --> 00:10:58.039 only one transition point, and I can report back 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:00.000 and I'm getting anywhere, I'm getting an average 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.799 of 75 % recovery rate on atomic cards up to a 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:08.379 little over 90 % depending on what type of material 00:11:08.379 --> 00:11:13.570 comes in our facility. Some of the loads that 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:16.169 come into our facility are complete trash, and 00:11:16.169 --> 00:11:17.889 there's not much you can pull out of them. And 00:11:17.889 --> 00:11:20.190 there's some that come in that are like 90 % 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:22.909 recoverable. I sort the material out on the ground, 00:11:22.929 --> 00:11:26.909 I get 60 % to 70 % recovery, depending on where 00:11:26.909 --> 00:11:31.769 the material come from. We try to get to the 00:11:31.769 --> 00:11:34.610 end user, right? Our goal is to get the highest 00:11:34.610 --> 00:11:36.490 value that we can because we have a really good 00:11:36.490 --> 00:11:39.289 product. So... I want to get to a smelter. I 00:11:39.289 --> 00:11:41.669 want to get to a cardboard mill. I don't want 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:43.429 to sell to an intermediate guy that's going to 00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:45.070 sell to a guy that's going to sell to a guy. 00:11:45.649 --> 00:11:49.309 I want to be at the end market at the highest 00:11:49.309 --> 00:11:51.730 I can be, right? So we'll get the highest dollar 00:11:51.730 --> 00:11:53.929 for the material that we're sending out. We have 00:11:53.929 --> 00:11:56.129 more than one outlet for each material, right? 00:11:56.149 --> 00:11:58.389 Because if, you know, something happens at outlet, 00:11:58.509 --> 00:11:59.950 we don't want to be stuck with a lot of material. 00:12:00.250 --> 00:12:03.149 So we try to have at least two or three outlets 00:12:03.149 --> 00:12:06.129 for each material going out the door, including 00:12:06.129 --> 00:12:09.610 the The residual, which will be like a landfill 00:12:09.610 --> 00:12:14.230 cover, alternate daily cover, or a waste energy 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:16.830 facility that takes the MSW. So anything that 00:12:16.830 --> 00:12:20.350 we can't recycle that can't be turned into a 00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:23.269 daily cover product will go to a waste energy 00:12:23.269 --> 00:12:25.610 facility like a Kavanta or something like that. 00:12:25.769 --> 00:12:28.929 It will go to one of three Kavanta facilities. 00:12:29.750 --> 00:12:32.309 York Solid Waste has a waste energy facility. 00:12:32.830 --> 00:12:37.720 And if the rates or availability isn't there, 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:46.639 we'll use the landfill if we have to. When I 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.919 go to sell materials or

process materials and 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.799 save money like... Like some materials I get 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.200 paid for on the way out, which help pay for my 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.399 labor. And then there's other materials that's 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.480 cost avoidance that are cost far less to dispose 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.340 of than a landfill would charge, right? So if 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:05.960 I'm paying $30 or $40 a ton to get rid of something 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:09.120 and I get paid $120 a ton, so okay, I got $90 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.720 a ton to pay for my labor and the upkeep of the 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.159 facility. So it kind of boils down to almost 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.419 about the same as what landfill costs are after 00:13:18.419 --> 00:13:23.860 I pay all my material costs. labor cost. But 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:27.940 I'm not landfilling it. Landfilling is never 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:33.200 a good idea, right? I mean, there's so many... 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.440 You have no idea what happens, the chemical reactions 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.720 that happen in a landfill, right? So when you 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.620 talk to landfill people, they have no idea what 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:46.080 happens underneath the surface of the landfill. 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.299 I mean, once these chemicals and everything start 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:51.750 to mix together, I mean... It's unpredictable 00:13:51.750 --> 00:13:54.429 results, is what most of them tell you. It's 00:13:54.429 --> 00:13:56.629 unpredictable what's happening underneath the 00:13:56.629 --> 00:13:58.269 surface of the landfill. I mean, they capture 00:13:58.269 --> 00:14:00.750 the gas, they degrade the material, but at the 00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:03.169 end, you end up with this pile of mixed chemicals 00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:04.529 that you really don't even know what they are. 00:14:04.909 --> 00:14:06.750 So when you start digging through it to recover 00:14:06.750 --> 00:14:10.250 it, like, you really don't know what happened. 00:14:11.470 --> 00:14:14.570 Oh, and it's just a waste. I mean, you had the 00:14:14.570 --> 00:14:16.250 material in your hand, like, for construction 00:14:16.250 --> 00:14:19.240 material. You pulled a piece of plaster off the 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.600 wall, you had it in your hand, like, let's just, 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:25.659 like, maximize our efficiency, right? Well, you 00:14:25.659 --> 00:14:27.539 got it in your hand, put it someplace that it's 00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:30.580 going to be recycled, rather than causing problems 00:14:30.580 --> 00:14:33.120 down the road and mishandling materials, using 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.179 more energy to, you know, solve that problem. 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.179 I don't know. It's education is what it is. There's 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:43.820 no education in this industry to teach people. 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.340 where to go, how to do things, and what the value 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.919 is, right? So we end up trying to educate our 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:58.539 customers as much as we can. Regulations are 00:14:58.539 --> 00:15:02.940 probably the most irritating. The state and the 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:08.159 city, I mean, they mandate and they want you 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:13.139 to recycle, but then they come in and they overregulate. 00:15:13.419 --> 00:15:18.799 the facilities to the point where it almost prohibits 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.179 you from doing your job. So that's one of the 00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:26.500 most frustrating things that I think. In the 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:33.759 96, 97 era, the state decided that mom and pop 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.460 companies shouldn't be in the waste processing 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:38.620 business. It should only be national companies 00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:43.090 and counties or municipalities that run recycling 00:15:43.090 --> 00:15:46.169 facilities because we don't have the resources 00:15:46.169 --> 00:15:50.850 to do what we're doing. Instead of trying to 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:55.789 help somebody, if they got together with the 00:15:55.789 --> 00:15:59.029 industry and said, hey, how can we increase recovery 00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:00.889 rates and how can we do these things, it would 00:16:00.889 --> 00:16:12.129 be a lot more effective. Well, actually, I've 00:16:12.129 --> 00:16:17.210 seen them on LinkedIn. I asked Ryan to reach 00:16:17.210 --> 00:16:20.289 out to Nick, and I'd say, you know, hey, invite 00:16:20.289 --> 00:16:22.309 the guys in, because there was some confusion 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.509 in there about the short dumping that goes on 00:16:26.509 --> 00:16:28.590 in the city, right? Short dumping is a big problem, 00:16:28.649 --> 00:16:31.149 and it's always been a problem. Ever since I 00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:33.169 was a kid, there's been people dumping on the 00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:35.649 side of the road. People were complaining because 00:16:35.649 --> 00:16:38.029 our rates were so high, because we're the highest 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.480 facility tipping -wise in the city, but we are 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:48.360 the only people that have, I guess, the dynamics 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.580 with recycling and the amount of people recovering. 00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:55.639 And I said, well, look, you guys just gotta understand 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.039 it's just education. Come through our facility, 00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:00.440 see what we do, see what it takes to run the 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.360 facility, see everything that we do, and they 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.319 did. And they brought a bunch of people through 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:09.869 here, and there was a handful of people. that 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:12.769 were of that mindset that you guys are charging 00:17:12.769 --> 00:17:15.529 too much money and you're part of the

problem. 00:17:15.569 --> 00:17:17.509 Why are you charging a minimum charge? Why are 00:17:17.509 --> 00:17:19.950 you charging so much? And after they toured the 00:17:19.950 --> 00:17:22.049 facility, they're kind of like, okay, I get it. 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:25.089 You have so many people on the ground. You treat 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:28.109 the people good. Your equipment, you got tons 00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:30.650 of equipment around here. What it cost to maintain 00:17:30.650 --> 00:17:34.769 the facility. So I think it was a really good 00:17:34.769 --> 00:17:39.859 education process for those guys. We deal with 00:17:39.859 --> 00:17:45.680 probably about 300 small trucks a day and We 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:50.559 have 600 dumpsters, I think we probably 80 dumpsters 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.819 80 we probably bring in 80 loads a day and our 00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:58.819 Tommy carts as another probably 20 some loads 00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:02.140 a day we get with our Tommy carts. So we were 00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:05.700 licensed to take 1200 ton a day. We don't come 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:07.119 close to that. I think we're somewhere around 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.039 five to six hundred ton a day. But that's a lot 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.079 of material trying to process five to six hundred 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.980 ton a day. And the thing about that is maintaining 00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:19.440 the facility. Like if I have to carry inventory 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.480 in case something breaks, if I can't get it off 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:27.799 the shelf in a week or in two days, I have to 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.380 have it in inventory because if my grinder goes 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.180 down or something goes down and breaks down, 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:36.960 I can't process material. So now hundreds of 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:40.019 tons of material get backed up until I can get 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:42.619 back operational again, right? So my maintenance 00:18:42.619 --> 00:18:45.619 team and facility team really need to be on point 00:18:45.619 --> 00:18:50.460 so that we don't shut down. There's a large percentage 00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:52.799 of our customers that when they come here and 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.859 they see that their materials being recycled, 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.099 like it's being recycled right in front of their 00:18:57.099 --> 00:18:59.380 eyes. Like they're literally throwing material 00:18:59.380 --> 00:19:01.859 off their truck. And the load that's next to 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:04.099 them that somebody threw off, our guys are sorting 00:19:04.099 --> 00:19:07.400 through and recycling it. So they kind of know 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.299 that the material is being recycled. And they 00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:15.140 can kind of see to the degree that we're doing 00:19:15.140 --> 00:19:19.779 it. There's materials like iron that have an 00:19:19.779 --> 00:19:23.059 endless lifespan. You can just keep reusing iron 00:19:23.059 --> 00:19:26.160 and scrapping it and reusing it and scrapping 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.579 it. Cardboard is kind of the same way. Wood is 00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:31.450 kind of like... After you recycle it once, it's 00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.930 done. It's either like goes into a mulch or goes 00:19:33.930 --> 00:19:36.289 into some type of boiler fuel or something and 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:38.809 then the life expectancy is gone. Non -ferrous 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:40.670 metals have kind of an endless kind of stream 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:43.970 as well like that. Plastics I would say, they 00:19:43.970 --> 00:19:45.769 have a limited, you know, because eventually 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.009 it gets down to like a mixed rigid and then it 00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:50.490 gets turned into like a junk plastic. So the 00:19:50.490 --> 00:19:53.569 lifespan of those are a little limited. But I'd 00:19:53.569 --> 00:19:59.230 say volume wise, I'd say our wood is the is the 00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:03.690 most. Wood, plasterboard, iron, cardboard, kind 00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:07.430 of like in that. And then plastics is probably 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:09.589 at the end. Because plastics, there's like thousands 00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:11.569 of different types of plastic. I had no idea. 00:20:12.230 --> 00:20:14.150 But I mean, you know, vinyl signings, they're 00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:17.809 different than, you know. your mixed rigids, 00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:21.730 HDPEs, and different things. The buckets, we 00:20:21.730 --> 00:20:23.509 have a different market for buckets than we do 00:20:23.509 --> 00:20:25.950 for milk crates, and there's a different market 00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:29.950 for vinyl siding than there is for buckets. Plastics 00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:32.430 aren't the same. There's just tons of different 00:20:32.430 --> 00:20:36.650 plastics. We want to bring a maximum value to 00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:39.450 the customer, and it costs a little extra money 00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:44.269 to do that. Not only is we environmentally sustainable, 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:47.390 we're economically sustainable, right? So these 00:20:47.390 --> 00:20:49.230 fellows that are sorting through our materials 00:20:49.230 --> 00:20:52.009 over there, these guys are making 16 some dollars 00:20:52.009 --> 00:20:55.569 an hour. They get health benefits. They get overtime. 00:20:55.809 --> 00:20:58.950 So I mean, they're averaging probably 45 ,000 00:20:58.950 --> 00:21:02.990 a year recycling materials and they find a treasure 00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:05.740 trove of material like... people throw out the 00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:07.759 craziest things and our guys are like oh they'll 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.059 pick up like costume jewelry and you know they're 00:21:10.059 --> 00:21:13.240 taking it and cleaning it up and it just it's 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:15.680 a fun job for those guys but then when they

come 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.680 in your entry level position is a sorter then 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:21.019 they can move up to a forklift operator a loader 00:21:21.019 --> 00:21:22.640 operator they can move into the construction 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.920 department they can move into welding they can 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.079 move into the maintenance department and we train 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:30.960 people and move them up and promote them so there's 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.849 guys that been here 30 years that started disorders 00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:42.630 and that are still here. I want to try to duplicate 00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:47.369 what we're doing here in other like -minded businesses 00:21:47.369 --> 00:21:49.869 across the country because it's a system that 00:21:49.869 --> 00:21:52.430 works so anybody who's serious about recovery 00:21:52.430 --> 00:21:55.089 and economics in their facility they see that 00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:57.809 we recover 60 percent versus they can They can 00:21:57.809 --> 00:22:01.170 invest $20 million into this big, huge MRF and 00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:04.390 get 20 % recovery. I don't want to own anything. 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:06.630 I want to partner with people who have a facility 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:08.970 that are interested in copying what we're doing 00:22:08.970 --> 00:22:11.670 here. So just like the Tommie carts, like we 00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:14.230 lease the Tommie cart equipment. And then we 00:22:14.230 --> 00:22:16.410 have the software and the sorting system, and 00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:18.750 it's all patented. And the sorties that are on 00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:20.470 the ground and the system to use, the sorties 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:22.670 is all patented. And I want to try to get people 00:22:22.670 --> 00:22:25.549 to use that and increase the recovery and become 00:22:25.549 --> 00:22:29.230 more efficient. in other areas. So we have partners 00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:33.089 in Tennessee, Rockwood Sustainable Solutions. 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:37.750 We have TAS, which is Economy Disposal in Chicago, 00:22:38.170 --> 00:22:43.089 who's coming on board. There's Next Waste, I 00:22:43.089 --> 00:22:47.269 think Recon in Texas, that's joining us as well. 00:22:47.549 --> 00:22:51.569 Michael Brothers in Pittsburgh, and they're kind 00:22:51.569 --> 00:22:54.849 of coming along as well. We have five or six 00:22:54.849 --> 00:22:58.359 other facilities. that are interested in trying 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:01.680 to increase their efficiency and their recovery. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.740 We really need to start thinking about when you 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:11.119 build a building, eventually they're going to 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.900 do either a renovation or they're going to demolish 00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:16.299 the building. And you need to think about what's 00:23:16.299 --> 00:23:18.039 going to happen to that building as you're building 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:19.740 it. So these architects, they build all these 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.019 great buildings and they look phenomenal. But 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:24.839 I'm thinking like if anybody ever went to recycle 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:28.410 that. You're not going to get the recovery rate 00:23:28.410 --> 00:23:32.410 out of it, right? They're using cheaper, like 00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:35.529 these glue laminates and particle boards and 00:23:35.529 --> 00:23:38.730 things like that that aren't really recyclable. 00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:41.369 I've been seeing a lot more of that and like 00:23:41.369 --> 00:23:44.569 foams and composite materials. So like I went 00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:48.789 to China and their buildings are made out of 00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:51.529 like inert materials right so they start out 00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:54.289 with concrete they'll put terracotta on the inside 00:23:54.289 --> 00:23:57.210 they'll put plaster on the walls they'll put 00:23:57.210 --> 00:24:00.970 tiles down and anything that's in the building 00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:03.269 like appliances or things like that when they 00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:05.529 go to knock the building down they take all the 00:24:05.529 --> 00:24:07.789 appliances and everything out of it and the only 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:09.569 thing that's left is basically inert materials 00:24:09.569 --> 00:24:14.670 they demolish the building and they use it for 00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:17.670 clean fill I guess and you know level out their 00:24:17.670 --> 00:24:20.529 land and they'll build a new building Like here 00:24:20.529 --> 00:24:22.690 we're using a lot of different foams and different 00:24:22.690 --> 00:24:25.710 things. Like it's just, I don't know, not comparing 00:24:25.710 --> 00:24:27.869 us to China. I think we're far better shape, 00:24:27.869 --> 00:24:31.150 but I think that we need to just start thinking 00:24:31.150 --> 00:24:35.490 about how we build our buildings. I mean, ultimately 00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:38.410 that's what makes sense, right? I mean, that's 00:24:38.410 --> 00:24:41.470 what's sustainable. I mean, what's not sustainable 00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:45.569 is, you know, landfill. I mean, there's a need 00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:50.119 for landfills, but it's... the overuse or the, 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:53.019 you know, the convenience of just, well, throwing 00:24:53.019 --> 00:24:58.279 something away. And that's just not, it's not 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:01.839 sustainable. If we all adopted that policy and 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:05.319 just threw everything away, eventually we'd all 00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:08.740 be consumed by some type of landfill. It just 00:25:08.740 --> 00:25:11.400 doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's just like, 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.019 it's like a waste, right? Like you're gonna run 00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:16.619 out of resources at some point, right? And it 00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:20.279 just becomes ultra wasteful. done, you

know, 00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:23.420 but reusing materials is absolutely a key part 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:28.140 of not being a wasteful society with that mindset. 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.720 That was Alan Burns from Richard S. Burns & Company 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:40.160 servicing the River Wards, Philadelphia, and 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.720 beyond with their material recovery services. 00:25:45.649 --> 00:25:47.650 When we first started Circular Philadelphia, 00:25:47.890 --> 00:25:49.650 we knew the built environment was such an important 00:25:49.650 --> 00:25:51.690 piece of advancing the circular economy in the 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:53.390 region because what you heard at the beginning 00:25:53.390 --> 00:25:55.750 of the episode about how much development and 00:25:55.750 --> 00:25:58.430 redevelopment is happening in the city. It's 00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:00.589 one of our main market focus areas for a reason, 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:03.289 and in fact, our very first member, Revolution 00:26:03.289 --> 00:26:05.849 Recovery, who you'll hear from next, operates 00:26:05.849 --> 00:26:12.880 in that space. My name is Fern Gouken and I work 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:16.180 for Revolution Recovery. We recycle construction 00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:22.460 and demolition debris. We are going into our 00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:26.380 21st year, so we've been around since 2004, but 00:26:26.380 --> 00:26:30.019 at the time the founders, it was just an idea. 00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:32.720 They were kind of high school buddies that had, 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.430 you know, were looking to start a business. And 00:26:36.430 --> 00:26:39.930 they heard about construction waste recycling 00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:42.750 and there was a big void in the market. So they 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:45.450 first started looking at drywall and said, well, 00:26:45.450 --> 00:26:48.609 maybe we can just focus on that. And they found 00:26:48.609 --> 00:26:51.390 outlets for drywall and, you know, ability to 00:26:51.390 --> 00:26:54.390 recycle it. And soon they found that the customers 00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.849 that had the drywall had all of this other stuff, 00:26:57.210 --> 00:27:00.890 too. So they started looking for options for 00:27:00.890 --> 00:27:03.849 all kinds of materials that come in mixed construction 00:27:03.849 --> 00:27:07.400 loads. And the business just grew from there. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:11.240 So it grew from this idea in 2004 to right now 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:14.220 we have about, we have three different facilities 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:18.299 and process between 1 ,200 and 1 ,500 tons of 00:27:18.299 --> 00:27:22.519 material every day. Every day. So three million 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:24.940 pounds in, three million pounds out every day. 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:28.660 There's been an incredible amount of development 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:31.400 in the River Wards in the last, I mean really 00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:33.759 since Revolution Recovery has been around for 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.839 the last 20 years. But certainly in the last, 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.380 I'd say 10 years or so. And so our trucks are 00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.710 in the River Wards every single day. I guess 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:48.109 one of the big notable projects that we were 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:50.569 on for a long time was the Piazza when they were 00:27:50.569 --> 00:27:53.609 renovating that just recently. We had multiple 00:27:53.609 --> 00:27:56.289 trucks picking up material there every single 00:27:56.289 --> 00:28:00.609 day. I would say that most of our customers might 00:28:00.609 --> 00:28:03.269 know that we recycle or they might find that 00:28:03.269 --> 00:28:06.509 interesting. helpful or they support that, but 00:28:06.509 --> 00:28:09.890 they're primarily driven by price and service. 00:28:10.210 --> 00:28:12.210 You know, are we competitive with the landfill? 00:28:12.430 --> 00:28:14.630 Are we competitive with other facilities that 00:28:14.630 --> 00:28:16.769 are other transfer stations that are taking these 00:28:16.769 --> 00:28:20.430 materials? So we have to be able to do be competitive 00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:25.720 in the market and compete on service. I think 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:31.000 that if you are in the waste industry you realize 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.079 how pervasive it is. Everybody has waste and 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.789 there are dumpsters. absolutely everywhere. In 00:28:37.789 --> 00:28:39.990 Philadelphia, the material that we're trying 00:28:39.990 --> 00:28:42.509 to get is mostly new construction, but we do 00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:46.450 work with some demolition companies as well, 00:28:46.529 --> 00:28:49.930 but also industrial and manufacturing debris. 00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:53.390 So other companies that have a lot of cutoffs 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:56.609 from whatever product that they're making will 00:28:56.609 --> 00:28:59.609 work with them as well. So I think that's like 00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:02.339 an... unrealized waste stream. A lot of people 00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:04.839 don't think about waste or where it comes from 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:08.519 or what a big sector it is but absolutely every 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.500 industry everywhere is producing waste all the 00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:14.559 time and so while we want them to reduce their 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.440 waste we if they can't or if they need to get 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.400 rid of it we'd rather come to somewhere like 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:24.059 us where we're recycling it and diverting some 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.160 of that from landfill or as much as we possibly 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.450 can. In the typical model, you know, materials 00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:33.470 will go right into the landfill and there's a, 00:29:33.490 --> 00:29:35.869 I mean, there's many reasons why landfills are 00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:38.369 bad,

but I think some of the biggest concerns 00:29:38.369 --> 00:29:41.630 are environmental reasons. So landfills are one 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:43.829 of the largest producers of methane emissions 00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:46.730 in the U .S. So the more material that's going 00:29:46.730 --> 00:29:49.009 in there, it's decomposing and then releasing 00:29:49.009 --> 00:29:51.289 all these greenhouse gases. And so we want to 00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:53.250 try to keep materials out of landfill as much 00:29:53.250 --> 00:29:57.430 as possible to reduce that. But there's also 00:29:57.430 --> 00:30:00.549 an economic factor to that. On the East Coast, 00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:04.069 in our region, there's not a lot of room to make 00:30:04.069 --> 00:30:06.529 new landfills. So the faster we keep filling 00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:11.750 them up, the more we'll have to open up new landfills 00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:15.700 and take... virgin land or virgin areas and then 00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:17.720 make them into a landfill, which isn't good for 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.859 the environment. But it also becomes very expensive 00:30:20.859 --> 00:30:23.519 because those areas are further and further away 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.880 from where people live. So if the cost of waste 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.019 is going up, that will have a really big impact. 00:30:29.259 --> 00:30:31.099 If landfills are closing, landfills are filling 00:30:31.099 --> 00:30:33.920 up. So the more we can reduce our waste, it's 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.759 going to save us money, but also help preserve 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:44.369 the environment. from a circularity standpoint, 00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:48.650 contractors are buying materials for their job 00:30:48.650 --> 00:30:51.950 site. Hopefully they have some recycle content 00:30:51.950 --> 00:30:55.190 in them, but then they will come, you know, anything 00:30:55.190 --> 00:30:57.950 that they can't use or there's cutoff materials 00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.349 will go into a dumpster. That material will come 00:31:00.349 --> 00:31:03.190 here. Most of the material that we received is 00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:05.930 all mixed together, co -mingled in one dumpster, 00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:10.230 and we're in the separation business. Those materials 00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:14.150 We separate out and we target a bunch of different 00:31:14.150 --> 00:31:17.990 material streams, cardboard, wood, rubble, metals, 00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:22.170 drywall, things like that. And then that material 00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:24.910 will bale up or we might grind it or process 00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:27.569 it to some extent, but that'll go on to a secondary 00:31:27.569 --> 00:31:33.349 processor where that facility might break open 00:31:33.349 --> 00:31:36.730 the bale of cardboard, you know, wet it down. 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.220 release all the fibers and make it back into 00:31:40.220 --> 00:31:43.000 new cardboard or paper products. So

usually there's 00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.660 a secondary and sometimes a tertiary processor 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:50.819 between us and the next part of having those 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:53.279 materials come full circle back in the loop. 00:31:53.819 --> 00:31:56.640 So we are separating those materials essentially 00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:59.079 and then getting them to that next processing 00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:03.400 phase. It's a pretty manual process. We do have 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.180 a lot of heavy equipment, excavators and loaders 00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:09.279 and forklifts and stuff like that, sort lines 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:11.819 and conveyor belts, but most of the material 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:18.089 is sorted by hand. In some recycling... Facilities, 00:32:18.269 --> 00:32:21.130 like where your bottles and cans go to, there's 00:32:21.130 --> 00:32:24.589 a lot more automation and robotics and optical 00:32:24.589 --> 00:32:26.890 sorters and things like that, but the material 00:32:26.890 --> 00:32:30.170 is also very consistent. A water bottle is generally 00:32:30.170 --> 00:32:33.230 the same size every single time, but ours tends 00:32:33.230 --> 00:32:35.630 to be a lot more manual because a piece of wood 00:32:35.630 --> 00:32:38.569 could be a small two by four cutoff, it could 00:32:38.569 --> 00:32:41.650 be a four by eight sheet of plywood or a pallet 00:32:41.650 --> 00:32:43.690 or something like that. So it's hard to automate 00:32:43.690 --> 00:32:47.220 that and to keep the integrity of them. we want 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:50.880 to recover as much hole as possible. Not everything 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.279 is recyclable. Well, that's not true. I think 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.720 everything is recyclable, but it depends on if 00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.890 they're somewhere. For the next step for it to 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:02.630 go to and so there's a lot of materials that 00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:06.849 we get that have no other home right a lot of 00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:09.710 different grades of plastic they might be able 00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:12.690 to be recovered or recycled if there was another 00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:15.609 processing facility nearby or if the technology 00:33:15.609 --> 00:33:18.150 was there to be able to process it to be able 00:33:18.150 --> 00:33:20.869 to make it a quality feedstock to go back into 00:33:20.869 --> 00:33:23.730 the Circular loop and if that outlet doesn't 00:33:23.730 --> 00:33:27.279 exist It makes it really challenging for us Well, 00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:29.500 not everything stays in the loop because of that. 00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:34.559 We have a whole team of people that is focused 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.420 on outlets and trying to manage our existing 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:41.339 outlets but also keep our outlets diversified 00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:46.279 because we don't want to be too reliant on only 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:49.720 one place

where certain materials go because 00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:54.819 there's always movement in the markets. So we're 00:33:54.819 --> 00:33:58.440 challenged by those end markets and also by volume. 00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:02.440 So sometimes we might get a kind of plastic that 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.599 is highly recyclable, but we might only get 20 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:09.619 pounds of it. And the buyers generally want to 00:34:09.619 --> 00:34:13.380 buy 20 tons of material at a time. So if we're 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:18.420 just getting 20 pounds here or there, we don't 00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:20.500 have the real estate to be able to keep storing 00:34:20.500 --> 00:34:22.780 all of those little bits we're a pretty large 00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:25.119 volume with. the amount of tons that come in 00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:31.099 and out every day. So we are always looking for 00:34:31.099 --> 00:34:34.019 diversity in the materials that we do recover 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:37.559 regularly, and we rely on a lot of our really 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.679 strong partnerships and existing relationships. 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.840 But we're also looking for new outlets for materials 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.420 that we don't know can be... have an outlet at 00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:51.480 this point in time. So those materials that are 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.099 currently going to Landville are not able to 00:34:54.099 --> 00:34:57.019 be diverted. We're always looking for better 00:34:57.019 --> 00:35:00.539 homes for that or better opportunities for what's 00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:03.130 the latest technology. who might be able to take 00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:05.670 this material from us. We'd love to see more 00:35:05.670 --> 00:35:07.670 places that could take some of these complex 00:35:07.670 --> 00:35:09.670 materials or could take some of the materials 00:35:09.670 --> 00:35:12.030 that we encounter every day, and there's just 00:35:12.030 --> 00:35:14.210 nowhere for us to send it. There's no outlet. 00:35:14.349 --> 00:35:17.510 So that's where I'd really love to see a bigger 00:35:17.510 --> 00:35:20.369 push for legislation or other, again, it's another 00:35:20.369 --> 00:35:23.469 business void. There's an opportunity for these 00:35:23.469 --> 00:35:25.969 secondary and tertiary processors to make that 00:35:25.969 --> 00:35:28.829 feedstock to go back into recycled products. 00:35:29.750 --> 00:35:33.449 I think that there's opportunity as far as like 00:35:33.449 --> 00:35:36.369 growth in the circular economy or maybe the materials 00:35:36.369 --> 00:35:39.210 that I think we don't have a lot of options for. 00:35:39.369 --> 00:35:42.269 I feel like I keep going back to plastics but 00:35:42.269 --> 00:35:45.110 plastics are really complicated and we just keep 00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:49.170 consuming more and more plastics. It's like by 00:35:49.170 --> 00:35:51.849 leaps and bounds there's more and more plastic 00:35:51.849 -->

00:35:55.849 waste generated every single year and there's 00:35:55.849 --> 00:35:58.969 not a lot of options for recycling and so I think 00:35:58.969 --> 00:36:03.289 there's a huge market void in that and I think 00:36:03.289 --> 00:36:08.489 you know thinking about deconstruction and the 00:36:08.489 --> 00:36:10.969 ability for materials to be disassembled a little 00:36:10.969 --> 00:36:16.630 bit better is is another avenue that I don't 00:36:16.630 --> 00:36:18.869 know that we necessarily have, you know, it's 00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:22.829 like the inbound material that comes to us, sometimes 00:36:22.829 --> 00:36:25.489 it's really complicated, you know, think about 00:36:25.489 --> 00:36:29.090 that, the roofing insulation board that's just 00:36:29.090 --> 00:36:32.590 almost impossible to recycle as it is, at least 00:36:32.590 --> 00:36:34.789 with the technology that there is now, but there's 00:36:34.789 --> 00:36:40.130 a lot of papers and, you know, weather -proofing 00:36:40.130 --> 00:36:44.099 barriers or whatever that's... adhered onto expanded 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:47.500 polystyrene, which maybe any of those things 00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:49.599 could be recycled on their own, but it's really 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.619 hard to separate them. So just looking at the 00:36:53.619 --> 00:36:56.420 quality of the inbound and then working on the 00:36:56.420 --> 00:36:58.599 quality of the outbound to keep everything in 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.340 that circular loop is something that I think 00:37:01.340 --> 00:37:10.429 we're focused on. It's so easy to just throw 00:37:10.429 --> 00:37:14.489 something away, but I think We should really 00:37:14.489 --> 00:37:17.070 pause and think about that a little bit more 00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.230 Could you use it for something else is this material 00:37:20.230 --> 00:37:24.150 that you've bought? At your job site like maybe 00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:27.389 you've bought all of this slumber because you 00:37:27.389 --> 00:37:28.869 think you're gonna need it you don't want to 00:37:28.869 --> 00:37:30.650 run out and you're going through your framing 00:37:30.650 --> 00:37:33.849 process, but then you finish your framing and 00:37:34.090 --> 00:37:36.530 you have to move on to the next phase and so 00:37:36.530 --> 00:37:39.050 instead of returning that lumber or taking it 00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:41.510 to the next job or storing it for the next job 00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:45.070 in six months you might throw it into a dumpster 00:37:45.070 --> 00:37:48.110 which I think there's there's a missed opportunity 00:37:48.110 --> 00:37:50.929 there because there's other organizations or 00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.679 people or there's still that material is still 00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:56.699 good and it's still usable and I think that's 00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:59.599 where those reuse centers come in is how do we 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:01.599 make those connections like there's not really 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.099 a central place to be able to take that material 00:38:04.099 --> 00:38:08.179 to get it back into use or how do you capture 00:38:08.179 --> 00:38:13.239 that value or that missed opportunity? And that 00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:16.139 that part of the circular economy is really interesting 00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:20.280 We didn't talk much about rare yet, which is 00:38:21.610 --> 00:38:24.590 But Rare has been focusing a little bit more 00:38:24.590 --> 00:38:27.230 on that circular economy. Can they intercept 00:38:27.230 --> 00:38:29.250 some of the materials that come into Revolution 00:38:29.250 --> 00:38:32.389 Recovery's waste stream, pull out some good lumber 00:38:32.389 --> 00:38:36.590 that they might find and get it out to neighborhood 00:38:36.590 --> 00:38:40.230 farms or whatever it might be to be able to keep 00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:42.590 that material in use longer and actually get 00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:45.130 it to people who need it and maybe don't want 00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:47.909 to spend their precious resources on buying new 00:38:47.909 --> 00:38:51.559 lumber or new... whatever it might be. Yeah. 00:38:52.179 --> 00:38:54.039 So yeah, let's talk about rare. What is rare? 00:38:54.219 --> 00:39:10.880 How did it come about? OK. Yeah. So, Rare is 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:14.539 a separate non -profit organization that is housed 00:39:14.539 --> 00:39:17.019 within Revolution Recovery. It's an acronym, 00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:21.039 RAIR, stands for Recycled Artist in Residency. 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.539 So, a residency program, if you're not familiar, 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.480 artists, it's a common thing that artists do, 00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:31.599 will apply for residency to have dedicated time 00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:34.989 to focus on their work. So artists apply from 00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:39.429 all over the world to come to Rare and Revolution 00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:42.769 Recovery to have studio space and access to the 00:39:42.769 --> 00:39:45.469 materials that come in through the waste stream. 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.480 It was actually my thesis project in grad school. 00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.659 I went to school for sustainable design and was 00:39:53.659 --> 00:39:57.360 really interested in these ideas about materials 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.480 and I knew of Revolution Recovery and I knew 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.960 that they were friendly to artists so they connected 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.780 me with an artist named Billy Dufala and sure 00:40:08.780 --> 00:40:11.539 enough the owners of Revolution Recovery are 00:40:11.539 --> 00:40:18.309 right. My name is Billy Dufala. I am the co -founder 00:40:18.309 --> 00:40:25.309 and creative director at Rare. So, I mean, I 00:40:25.309 --> 00:40:30.130 think I was always the materials guy, aka hoarder. 00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:33.780 uh but like i mean also having to do with growing 00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:36.699 up poor

i remember early on also being really 00:40:36.699 --> 00:40:39.139 interested in alternative economies thinking 00:40:39.139 --> 00:40:43.500 about the city as a resource um and learning 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.139 from what materials have baked into them in terms 00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:47.940 of the stories of their past lives and things 00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:51.780 like that um and you know coming from a sculpture 00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.380 department it really is about community and you're 00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:56.199 like you don't you don't do this work on your 00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:59.519 own um so in in a sense there's always this kind 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.539 of uh paying it forward to a certain degree because 00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:07.980 it's not just about you um so for me i think 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:10.599 gaining access to like transfer stations while 00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:13.159 i was even still a student was like difficult 00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.400 like people don't want you in those places and 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.139 I always dreamt about the Recology program in 00:41:19.139 --> 00:41:25.380 the Bay. It's an artist in residency really about 00:41:25.380 --> 00:41:27.860 the waste that was coming through their waste 00:41:27.860 --> 00:41:30.500 stream. It's a worker owned or worker shared 00:41:30.500 --> 00:41:32.739 company from what I understand but it's franchised 00:41:32.739 --> 00:41:37.440 out on the west coast. I just heard about it 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:41.650 and was like oh Philly needs one of these. Oh, 00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:44.929 Philly would be an amazing city. Because I had 00:41:44.929 --> 00:41:47.210 already, as a student and as an emerging, you 00:41:47.210 --> 00:41:50.889 know, a recent grad and, you know, my studio 00:41:50.889 --> 00:41:53.809 practice, I was already doing it in a very informal 00:41:53.809 --> 00:41:58.690 way. And I'm like, yeah, that as an institution 00:41:58.690 --> 00:42:01.750 in this city would be absolutely amazing. But, 00:42:01.750 --> 00:42:15.099 you know, so it was a dream. I remember specifically 00:42:15.099 --> 00:42:19.820 trying to source architectural glass for a studio 00:42:19.820 --> 00:42:24.900 made and reaching out to a friend, Bob Beatty. 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:31.559 Bob's like this sage kind of, you know, OG, if 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.159 you would, just somebody who's revered in our 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:37.099 community for starting provenance back in the 00:42:37.099 --> 00:42:40.300 day. But anyway. Bob told me about this place 00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:42.559 Revolution Recovery, which I had never heard 00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.739 of before, and encouraged me to get in touch 00:42:45.739 --> 00:42:48.960 with him. And I called them up, and at the time, 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.760 this is 2009, Revolution Recovery. was really 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.199 still getting started i think they were sharing 00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.280 the property here with another uh with another 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.920 company and i just remember coming in going right 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.739 past the scale right to the tipping floor and 00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:08.420 the foreman who's a friend of mine now uh was 00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:10.980 like hey you guys the artists hey and he's like 00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:14.719 really chummy and and happy to see us and we 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:18.900 got like $25 ,000 worth of glass for 200 bucks. 00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:22.719 And I was just like, oh, whoa, who's the owners? 00:43:24.019 --> 00:43:29.900 And Avi Golan, who was one of the founding associates 00:43:29.900 --> 00:43:35.280 of Revolution Recovery, John and Avi, I was like, 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.079 can I bring my students here? He's like, absolutely 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:43.239 not. As luck would have it, they were lecturing 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:45.960 at Philly U, where Fern was getting her masters, 00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:48.539 and they made the introduction to me and Fern. 00:43:49.940 --> 00:43:53.619 And so yeah, that's how I got, that's my, oh, 00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:55.599 and well, and just to complete the story, as 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:58.199 luck would have it, Fern, I helped Fern with 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:03.300 her thesis, got in deeper here in the process, 00:44:03.619 --> 00:44:05.460 and as luck would have it, Fern was hired by 00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:07.219 Revolution Recovery when she graduated, and the 00:44:07.219 --> 00:44:22.059 rest is history. So the residency really started, 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:25.119 we piloted this thing called the Biggie Shorty, 00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:27.500 which is a big project in a shorter period of 00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:30.139 time. You're working towards a document, and 00:44:30.139 --> 00:44:32.679 then after you've made the work, you've documented 00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:35.320 it, you've staged it, you've performed it, you've 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:37.820 filmed it, you've photographed it, it goes back 00:44:37.820 --> 00:44:41.920 into the waystream. And that really began, that 00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:46.690 began that informal piloting, but that gave way 00:44:46.690 --> 00:44:50.110 to a formal space where we our first open call 00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:52.909 we had a standard residency and we had a biggie 00:44:52.909 --> 00:44:55.710 shorty residency and the standard is really like 00:44:55.710 --> 00:44:57.769 you gain access to the tipping floor you pull 00:44:57.769 --> 00:45:00.250 materials you have a project space in a shop 00:45:00.250 --> 00:45:03.690 and you're kind of self -guided working on your 00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:07.869 project that you proposed in in the in the application 00:45:07.869 --> 00:45:11.809 process um and then we also were still made that 00:45:11.809 --> 00:45:16.320 biggie shorty because it's so, it's very different 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:19.880 from the standard

residency and how an artist 00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.199 can take advantage of the material resources. 00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:25.719 It really is more about sight. It's about experimentation 00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:31.719 and exploration and kind of going beyond the 00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.139 confines of like a studio practice and thinking 00:45:35.139 --> 00:45:39.360 bigger and it's more challenging. Artists gain 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:42.360 an incredible amount of value from the material 00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:45.159 they're cleaning coming through the yard and 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:48.940 through that waste stream But over time we become 00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:52.000 experts in and of course Fern went to school 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.059 for went to grad school for sustainability So 00:45:55.059 --> 00:46:01.000 you are in the best suited vantage point to clean 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:05.039 material value, but also to consult with the 00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:07.039 expertise in the world of sustainability and 00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.059 environmental issues when it comes to building 00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:12.219 and construction. But how this is all really 00:46:12.219 --> 00:46:14.619 the back end of the built environment, it's all 00:46:14.619 --> 00:46:20.300 here. So over time, let's just say that knowledge 00:46:20.300 --> 00:46:22.820 base, or I like to call it cumulative toolbox 00:46:22.820 --> 00:46:27.360 of the answers for the questions that artists 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.340 have brought to us over the last 10 years, that's 00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:33.900 available to any cohort that comes after that. 00:46:34.059 --> 00:46:36.760 That's like another form of that paying forward 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:42.599 kind of why we are such a unique institution, 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:47.869 if you would, as scrappy as we are. The work 00:46:47.869 --> 00:46:50.090 that we've done with the art program historically, 00:46:50.329 --> 00:46:53.550 that's the last 10 years. It's a flagship program. 00:46:53.690 --> 00:46:55.690 Over the last couple of years, we've been running 00:46:55.690 --> 00:46:59.889 this, we call it the circular pilot, which is, 00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:03.170 you know, Tyrael's redistribution program working 00:47:03.170 --> 00:47:06.210 exclusively for the most part with urban farms 00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:08.750 and gardens where it's a redistribution of dimensional 00:47:08.750 --> 00:47:11.809 lumber and other things that are typically going 00:47:11.809 --> 00:47:14.389 to landfill that are like budget line items at 00:47:14.389 --> 00:47:18.389 community farms and gardens. And it's been slow, 00:47:18.789 --> 00:47:21.730 but it's established its own footprint out on 00:47:21.730 --> 00:47:23.889 the remediated Superfund site that's our neighbor. 00:47:24.730 --> 00:47:27.349 We have a shipping container full of lumber and 00:47:27.349 --> 00:47:31.349 we've worked with almost 10 community partners 00:47:31.349 --> 00:47:35.150 over the last couple of years. That as a parallel 00:47:35.150 --> 00:47:38.789 to the art program. benefits artist practices, 00:47:39.110 --> 00:47:42.190 but also acknowledges the creative nature of 00:47:42.190 --> 00:47:47.190 urban agriculture. And for us as a way to inform, 00:47:47.530 --> 00:47:50.829 educate, but also make better use out of a lot 00:47:50.829 --> 00:47:54.710 of these materials, slowly I as like creative 00:47:54.710 --> 00:47:58.150 directors see this braiding of interdisciplinary 00:47:58.150 --> 00:48:01.530 practice over a longer period of time. and I 00:48:01.530 --> 00:48:03.889 really think that there's a lot of interesting 00:48:03.889 --> 00:48:07.110 opportunities along the way. In the longer arc 00:48:07.110 --> 00:48:10.329 of the work that Rare has been doing and wants 00:48:10.329 --> 00:48:13.469 to be doing, I think this is a really important 00:48:13.469 --> 00:48:17.969 program area that I'm excited about seeing it 00:48:17.969 --> 00:48:22.150 grow capacity and understanding how this lays 00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:26.769 the groundwork for interesting cross -disciplinary 00:48:26.769 --> 00:48:31.920 practice into the future. I've had quite a few 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.940 people reach out about starting programs similarly, 00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:39.480 and I don't feel great about this question, but 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:44.179 my question that I usually, after talking about 00:48:44.179 --> 00:48:49.000 it, is what's your relationship with a host facility 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:53.699 like? Because I really think that Rare, well 00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:56.619 I know, Rare wouldn't exist if it wasn't for 00:48:56.619 --> 00:48:59.519 the support, encouragement, and permissions granted 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.119 by Revolution Recovery like and I think that 00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.460 that there's a lot of magic in me and Fern having 00:49:06.460 --> 00:49:10.699 met when we did at the age that Revolution Recovery 00:49:10.699 --> 00:49:15.679 was at and where they started growing as a company 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:18.440 we established and started forming the non -profit 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:24.460 so I do think that there's a model both with 00:49:24.460 --> 00:49:28.420 Recology and Rare and there's other I think there's 00:49:28.420 --> 00:49:32.639 something in Moab that is similar um and there's 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:38.519 little uh like more informal um programs that 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:40.500 have sprouted up and then you know if they're 00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:44.440 still around i'm not exactly sure but it really 00:49:44.440 --> 00:50:02.179 is that partnership For my own mental health 00:50:02.179 --> 00:50:05.000 and spiritual health, that I've become a little 00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.519 numb to the scale and frequency at which all 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:10.960 of this material is moving in this just one site, 00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:14.840 but

aware of how prevalent it is throughout the 00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:23.619 country. In our exit interviews. It's almost 00:50:23.619 --> 00:50:25.800 every single artist who's come through, which 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.280 is we're getting close to 100. They're just forever 00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:33.780 changed. And how seeing is different than reading 00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:37.099 or understanding how these systems operate when 00:50:37.099 --> 00:50:40.420 you're immersed in it. It changes, I would say, 00:50:41.019 --> 00:50:45.059 even potentially part of your spirit and maybe 00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:48.800 even your molecular construct. There's something 00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:52.809 that happens once you've witnessed. the volume. 00:50:53.070 --> 00:50:58.269 I liken it to being traumatizing in low dose, 00:50:58.309 --> 00:51:02.349 but also as novel as it is and as exciting, it 00:51:02.349 --> 00:51:05.590 can be heartbreaking too because this is the 00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:11.329 reality. I think our whole relationship with 00:51:11.329 --> 00:51:15.349 material would be a lot more environmentally 00:51:15.349 --> 00:51:19.360 right -sized if Everyone every American had to 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.579 like come spend some time in a place like this 00:51:21.579 --> 00:51:27.719 I think the I the the The witnessing of what 00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:32.500 material impact is in its use and post use value 00:51:32.500 --> 00:51:35.920 I think the the idea that we are all contributing 00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.559 to this and how we are all part of these systems 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.340 is Really easy to forget about when you're not 00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:46.789 in some way in direct relation to the volume 00:51:46.789 --> 00:51:56.130 or the waste rate. Waste, I think, is an invisible 00:51:56.130 --> 00:51:59.349 cost because in Philadelphia and in a lot of 00:51:59.349 --> 00:52:02.170 municipalities it's just part of the tax structure. 00:52:02.510 --> 00:52:05.050 We are paying to get rid of waste everywhere 00:52:05.050 --> 00:52:08.429 but you don't realize it because it's just part 00:52:08.429 --> 00:52:10.349 of your daily services. There's certainly some 00:52:10.349 --> 00:52:13.789 parts of the country where you pay. even for 00:52:13.789 --> 00:52:17.170 your curbside pickup. So I think in those places, 00:52:17.550 --> 00:52:20.590 it's like there's more of a one -to -one understanding 00:52:20.590 --> 00:52:23.210 of, oh, you have to pay to get rid of material. 00:52:23.710 --> 00:52:28.070 But certainly for a contractor or a manufacturer 00:52:28.070 --> 00:52:31.380 that has material. that's not included or lumped 00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:34.719 into any taxes or, you know, city infrastructure 00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.300 that they would pay. So it really is like this 00:52:37.300 --> 00:52:39.639 hidden utility that's hard to track and hard 00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:42.880 to understand because I think it's not the same 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:44.840 model. It's not like you're paying for electricity 00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:46.980 or you're paying for water or something like 00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:51.440 that. But yes, contractors have to pay to get 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:57.360 rid of material and as do we all. There is a 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:01.550 cost to dispose of waste. A lot of people, you 00:53:01.550 --> 00:53:03.449 know, the common thing you say is, like, you 00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:07.190 throw your waste away, throw it away. But there 00:53:07.190 --> 00:53:11.269 is really no away, right? It all has to go somewhere. 00:53:11.510 --> 00:53:14.349 And one stat that really sticks with me is that 00:53:14.349 --> 00:53:17.510 in the U .S., people generate between four and 00:53:17.510 --> 00:53:19.710 five pounds of waste per person per day. That's 00:53:19.710 --> 00:53:22.070 just in your daily life, which is a lot. You 00:53:22.070 --> 00:53:24.610 know, it all adds up. But the construction industry 00:53:24.610 --> 00:53:27.530 in the U .S. generates about double that every 00:53:27.530 --> 00:53:33.599 day. So, you know, you have, everybody has their 00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:38.119 own impact that they can make and while you can 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:41.099 make an impact in your own life, really expanding 00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:44.860 the scope of waste I think can make a bigger 00:53:44.860 --> 00:53:46.579 and bigger impact. So if you're thinking about 00:53:46.579 --> 00:53:48.980 construction materials and how much of this stuff 00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:53.280 is coming out of these job sites every day, it's 00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.820 a huge amount. So anything we can do to reduce 00:53:56.820 --> 00:54:01.750 the waste and reuse it. recycle it you know keep 00:54:01.750 --> 00:54:03.929 it out of landfill you know work within that 00:54:03.929 --> 00:54:06.429 waste hierarchy I think is really important. 00:54:08.349 --> 00:54:10.769 No need for us to have as much waste that we 00:54:10.769 --> 00:54:15.489 that we have so while that would impact our business 00:54:15.489 --> 00:54:17.630 if people started generating a lot less waste 00:54:17.630 --> 00:54:20.050 I think that would be like a big win out there 00:54:20.050 --> 00:54:22.489 for the world anyway there's plenty of waste 00:54:22.489 --> 00:54:29.079 for us to keep working on. And you guys, are 00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:31.460 you guys members of Circular Philadelphia? Yes, 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:33.860 we're one of the first members. So tell me about 00:54:33.860 --> 00:54:36.300 that. How did that relationship start? Sure, 00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:39.639 well we've known Nick and Sam, the founders, 00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:43.679 for quite a while and we're always really supportive 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:46.900 of their work and they're always doing really 00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:50.760 good things in circularity and waste and things 00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:53.960 like that. So when they

were forming the organization 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:58.500 and approached us It was a no -brainer. We said 00:54:58.500 --> 00:55:01.840 like absolutely Philly needs more, you know, 00:55:01.940 --> 00:55:04.199 it takes it takes a village it takes all kinds 00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.199 of companies to be able to come together and 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.420 solve some of these really complex problems and 00:55:08.420 --> 00:55:11.300 so their idea of being more of that convener 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:13.820 specifically around waste and and having it be 00:55:13.820 --> 00:55:16.679 pretty local to our region was really attractive 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:20.059 to us and I think it's it's been incredible. 00:55:20.059 --> 00:55:24.039 We're really happy to be members and network 00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:26.420 with a lot of different organizations and do 00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:33.159 meetups and things like that. We get a lot out 00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:36.280 of just staying in the know. We're about all 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.860 of these different waste issues because while 00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:42.019 every industry, every part of the circular loop 00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:46.039 is different, there is a lot of overlap and there's 00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:49.150 questions. There's people that... have a product 00:55:49.150 --> 00:55:51.889 that they want to get recycled and they don't 00:55:51.889 --> 00:55:54.030 know if it's possible. Well, we might know. We 00:55:54.030 --> 00:55:56.429 might know if there are outlets. We might know 00:55:56.429 --> 00:55:59.969 how we could handle it operationally if something 00:55:59.969 --> 00:56:02.130 like that could come in. But then we're also 00:56:02.130 --> 00:56:03.849 looking for people that might want the stuff 00:56:03.849 --> 00:56:06.090 that we have that we don't know what to do with. 00:56:06.349 --> 00:56:09.190 And so being able to talk with a lot of people 00:56:09.190 --> 00:56:11.349 that have the same interests and have the same 00:56:11.349 --> 00:56:14.699 challenges. I think is really important. So instead 00:56:14.699 --> 00:56:17.300 of just focusing on our one little slice, we 00:56:17.300 --> 00:56:20.139 can see what everybody else is doing and hopefully 00:56:20.139 --> 00:56:23.460 continue to grow from that and keep, you know, 00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.179 expanding our reach and being more circular. 00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:34.050 The big picture, I think, moving towards a circular 00:56:34.050 --> 00:56:37.570 economy is really important because we have limited 00:56:37.570 --> 00:56:41.489 resources. We're limited just in the raw materials 00:56:41.489 --> 00:56:44.110 that are in the earth and we're consuming just 00:56:44.110 --> 00:56:48.110 more and more of them all of the time. But all 00:56:48.110 --> 00:56:50.710 of those materials, just the raw materials, it 00:56:50.710 --> 00:56:56.389 takes a lot of electricity and fuel. transportation 00:56:56.389 --> 00:56:59.630 to process those materials and so the more localized 00:56:59.630 --> 00:57:02.550 that we can get with keeping the the resources 00:57:02.550 --> 00:57:06.389 that we have in the loop and and available I 00:57:06.389 --> 00:57:08.829 feel like we're going to be much better off as 00:57:08.829 --> 00:57:11.070 a society. There's sort of an upfront cost to 00:57:11.070 --> 00:57:14.449 get these businesses going and to get them traction 00:57:14.449 --> 00:57:16.510 and to support them. But I think in the long 00:57:16.510 --> 00:57:19.190 run, it's going to pay off in dividends if we 00:57:19.190 --> 00:57:23.710 can save those resources, utilize them better 00:57:23.710 --> 00:57:31.809 and keep them out of landfill. That was Fern 00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:34.469 Guggen, the Director of Sustainability at Revolution 00:57:34.469 --> 00:57:38.739 Recovery. For more information about Richard 00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:41.519 S. Burns Recycling Company, visit burnscompany 00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:44.500 .net. And for more information about Revolution 00:57:44.500 --> 00:57:48.059 Recovery, visit revolutionrecovery .com. And 00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:49.880 you can check out the work of Rare's artists 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.960 and residents on their website rarefilly .org. 00:57:53.159 --> 00:58:00.340 That's r -a -i -r -filly .org. In the next episode 00:58:00.340 --> 00:58:03.039 of Circle Up, we're tackling a question we all 00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:06.079 face. What do you do when stuff breaks? From 00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:09.159 phones and appliances to bikes and shoes, tossing 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.900 isn't the only option. Join us as we explore 00:58:11.900 --> 00:58:14.300 how fixing what we already have keeps materials 00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:17.480 in use longer, supports local businesses, and 00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:20.559 builds a more circular way of living. The Circle 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:23.400 Up podcast is presented by Circular Philadelphia. 00:58:23.860 --> 00:58:26.539 It was produced by Meredith Nutting at Cool Goon 00:58:26.539 --> 00:58:29.559 Productions. This podcast was supported by a 00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:32.059 grant from Pentry Special Services District. 00:58:32.539 --> 00:58:34.440 If you want to learn more about the circular 00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.039 economy, go to circularphiladelphia .org.