התמלול המלא של CI Press, Episode 111: From Army Intel to NFL & LA Metro: Robert Gummer on Threats, Oversight, and Big‑Event Security

civil liberties, people are going to be spied on and 00:01:58.182 --> 00:02:02.842 surveilled. you know, this is why a proper counterintelligence program needs 00:02:02.842 --> 00:02:05.122 oversight. And oversight done. 00:02:06.043 --> 00:02:09.163 You know, a legal advisors, an intelligence oversight advisor, 00:02:09.443 --> 00:02:13.623 the right people looking at it to make sure those civil liberties are not infringed upon. 00:02:14.203 --> 00:02:18.103 You know, if this is done properly, and I expect Florida will do it, 00:02:18.183 --> 00:02:21.223 and they might actually outpace New Hampshire being the other state trying to 00:02:21.223 --> 00:02:23.383 put a program together, I think it's needed. 00:02:23.423 --> 00:02:26.623 If you look at what's happening across our society right now, 00:02:26.843 --> 00:02:29.543 the homeland is no longer a sanctuary. We say it all the time. 00:02:29.923 --> 00:02:32.923 Something needs to change. The federal government's not doing enough to help 00:02:32.923 --> 00:02:35.763 the states out there, and there are bad actors in states. 00:02:36.063 --> 00:02:40.143 Who better to represent counterintelligence than state representatives, 00:02:40.363 --> 00:02:42.823 knowing where those threats are, to counter what they're doing, 00:02:42.943 --> 00:02:44.503 to protect the citizens out there? 00:02:44.723 --> 00:02:48.563 I would just say out there, if you don't understand counterintelligence, 00:02:48.863 --> 00:02:53.263 hey, we'll inform you a little bit on it. But it's not about infringing upon civil liberties. 00:02:53.463 --> 00:02:57.263 It's about protecting the liberties we have and protecting our rights. 00:02:57.783 --> 00:03:01.303 I think that's really well said. And, you know, it kind of parlays nicely into 00:03:01.303 --> 00:03:03.563 today's guest, to somebody else that 00:03:03.563 --> 00:03:07.323 very much focuses on protecting civil liberties and protecting people. 00:03:07.643 --> 00:03:11.723 And it's someone that we were very fortunate to meet officially about six weeks 00:03:11.723 --> 00:03:12.963 ago when we were out in L.A. 00:03:13.063 --> 00:03:16.403 For a conference, but, you know, found out a little bit about his background 00:03:16.403 --> 00:03:19.483 and just kind of been bugging him ever since that he had to be on our podcast. 00:03:20.343 --> 00:03:25.483 So today's guest actually started off in the Army as an intelligence analyst 00:03:25.483 --> 00:03:27.203 and spent, I think he was stop loss. 00:03:27.303 --> 00:03:30.823 So I think he spent beyond just an initial tour in order to make sure the Army 00:03:30.823 --> 00:03:32.543 got their full money's worth on that. 00:03:32.723 --> 00:03:36.083 But he did that because of a desire to ultimately go into the FBI. 00:03:36.303 --> 00:03:39.043 And so I think he had a couple of private sector gigs in between, 00:03:39.263 --> 00:03:44.123 but ended up in the FBI as an intelligence professional, made it up into the supervisory ranks. 00:03:44.483 --> 00:03:47.223 But then he got a call that I know I could not have refused, 00:03:47.543 --> 00:03:50.563 which is to lead intel operations for the NFL. 00:03:50.763 --> 00:03:53.683 And I got to tell you, when I heard this part of his story, I was just like, 00:03:53.843 --> 00:03:56.063 that has got to be one of the coolest gigs going. 00:03:56.303 --> 00:04:00.603 So somehow he actually left that afterwards and then came into the positions 00:04:00.603 --> 00:04:04.883 that he's been with for the last several years, which is heading up LA Metro's 00:04:04.883 --> 00:04:07.563 Department of Public Safety as their deputy chief. 00:04:08.213 --> 00:04:13.273 So without further ado, very excited to introduce Rob Gummer to the podcast. How are you doing, Rob? 00:04:14.013 --> 00:04:17.233 Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. Doing well. How are you guys doing? 00:04:17.753 --> 00:04:21.313 Well, we're not doing LA 85 degrees well, but we're doing okay. 00:04:22.033 --> 00:04:25.693 I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you guys in the colder temps. It's a struggle out here. 00:04:26.193 --> 00:04:30.633 Well, I tell you what, it's been absolutely awesome kind of having the opportunity 00:04:30.633 --> 00:04:34.693 to talk with you over the last couple of months, and we're super excited to get into your story. 00:04:34.973 --> 00:04:38.453 Rob, we told you a little bit about how this goes. we usually kick things off 00:04:38.453 --> 00:04:42.913 by getting people to tell us about their path into the intelligence and security world. 00:04:43.293 --> 00:04:45.973 Again, yours is a pretty fascinating one. But if you don't mind, 00:04:46.093 --> 00:04:50.413 kind of walk us through how you started your career path and what brought you 00:04:50.413 --> 00:04:52.133 here to this point today. 00:04:52.593 --> 00:04:57.133 Oh, thanks for that, Joe. You know, a great being with both of you guys this afternoon. 00:04:57.613 --> 00:05:01.833 So my career path started years ago, already at the age of eight, 00:05:01.993 --> 00:05:06.413 when I kind of declared, thanks to the X-Files that the FBI was the direction I was going to go. 00:05:07.093 --> 00:05:13.413 And, you know, I literally was in hot pursuit for most of my teenage years. 00:05:13.553 --> 00:05:18.593 I was fortunate enough to get into a leadership initiative the local community was sponsoring. 00:05:18.933 --> 00:05:21.373 At the time, it was called something like Youth Leadership Collaborative. 00:05:21.573 --> 00:05:26.833 It was an experimental program where they brought top 20 students from three different schools. 00:05:27.073 --> 00:05:30.453 They kind of learned about leadership for their first couple of years. 00:05:30.453 --> 00:05:32.913 You do community service projects 00:05:32.913 --> 00:05:36.593 for about a year and then for your final year you have essentially a. 00:05:37.390 --> 00:05:42.970 Mentor that would advise you on how their jobs go in your life.

00:05:43.210 --> 00:05:46.050 And at the end of the year, he essentially gave a presentation on whether or 00:05:46.050 --> 00:05:48.510 not you still want to pursue that goal of the career. 00:05:48.770 --> 00:05:55.130 I was fortunate that the head of the FBI office in Canton, Ohio volunteered to be my mentor. 00:05:55.310 --> 00:05:58.430 So once a month, he would come out, give me a day in the life, 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:00.510 really kind of give the ins and outs. 00:06:00.530 --> 00:06:03.890 We would talk about the different directions to go to get there. 00:06:03.890 --> 00:06:09.570 And one day, you know, we're chatting on the way to the office and I ask like, 00:06:09.610 --> 00:06:10.910 hey, I really want to do this job. 00:06:11.190 --> 00:06:13.930 This is my dream. I will do whatever it takes to get there. 00:06:14.270 --> 00:06:18.310 Like, what's the direction outside of this college? Like, what do I need to 00:06:18.310 --> 00:06:19.630 do to get a leg up on everyone else? 00:06:20.210 --> 00:06:23.570 And he turns to me and says like, hey, you really should join the military. 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:27.270 You know, go to a field like military intelligence. You know, 00:06:27.410 --> 00:06:30.110 get a top secret clearance. you know, really learned some skills, 00:06:30.450 --> 00:06:34.170 you know, and really come forward with something more to offer, 00:06:34.490 --> 00:06:36.170 you know, outside of just a degree. 00:06:36.410 --> 00:06:40.750 At the time, I was pretty much focused on going to University of Michigan for criminal justice. 00:06:41.050 --> 00:06:46.090 I dropped all of my plans after that conversation and went straight to the military. 00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:51.290 Almost ended up in the Marines, but learned that they could not guarantee that, 00:06:51.430 --> 00:06:55.010 you know, I could go into the intelligence field, that that was determined after 00:06:55.010 --> 00:06:56.530 you graduated through basic. 00:06:56.770 --> 00:06:59.930 So the Army was the only one that could actually guarantee that. 00:07:00.030 --> 00:07:01.210 So I went off to the military. 00:07:01.570 --> 00:07:06.810 Went off to school in Fort Worth, Chuka, Arizona after basic training in Fort Leonard Wood. 00:07:07.190 --> 00:07:11.890 And I would say initially when I was in the school, I was a little disappointed 00:07:11.890 --> 00:07:16.910 from like the beginning of, and I wasn't really sure if it was going to be the field for me. 00:07:17.090 --> 00:07:20.270 I'll never forget that the first week they put down a map. 00:07:21.459 --> 00:07:24.779 Protractor and a ruler and it was like oh you're gonna be doing this back 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:27.459 in late 90s all right so you know everyone's part 00:07:27.459 --> 00:07:30.379 of listening like what he's talking about you know back in the day we used regular maps 00:07:30.379 --> 00:07:35.959 and we had you know you were drawn on maps you know where positions and stuff 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:40.079 were what was going on on the battlefield and i was like this is not the kind 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:44.079 of james bond fbi thing that i was expecting like what is this you know like 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:47.859 why are we drawn on maps but a couple weeks into it, 00:07:48.099 --> 00:07:54.099 we really started getting into how intelligence supports things such as police officers, 00:07:54.701 --> 00:07:59.401 And peacekeeping, you know, missions, and it's more police-related work, 00:07:59.681 --> 00:08:01.321 you know, and what that looked like. 00:08:01.421 --> 00:08:03.541 And then that really grabbed my interest. 00:08:03.901 --> 00:08:07.301 And, you know, as we got more to the sports, like, okay, this really is the 00:08:07.301 --> 00:08:09.061 field that I wanted to be in. 00:08:09.561 --> 00:08:13.341 So then I was fortunate enough to go off to Germany, you know, 00:08:13.501 --> 00:08:16.561 quickly had my first deployment. I was in Kosovo in 99. 00:08:17.261 --> 00:08:21.201 We were actually the first unit to go in, set up Camp Bond still. 00:08:21.201 --> 00:08:28.741 And since we set up peacekeeping operations in a place that was recently fractured 00:08:28.741 --> 00:08:32.521 due to the Serbian Army having done an invasion and then actually leaving. 00:08:32.661 --> 00:08:36.281 As we were going into country, the Serbian Army was actually withdrawn. 00:08:36.501 --> 00:08:40.161 And it was a fascinating look from the intelligence perspective because everything 00:08:40.161 --> 00:08:42.041 I learned in school was playing out in real life. 00:08:42.661 --> 00:08:48.041 Whether it's localized issues, social issues, political issues, 00:08:48.221 --> 00:08:52.021 all of this stuff was playing out. And as an analyst, I actually had to understand 00:08:52.021 --> 00:08:53.581 what was going on inside the region. 00:08:53.801 --> 00:08:57.981 I also had the opportunity to be the command briefer for the entirety of that deployment. 00:08:58.141 --> 00:09:04.241 And I exposed me to a wider world of things that in school, they never really teach you. 00:09:04.561 --> 00:09:09.621 From there, my career really blossomed. That deployment gave me a lot of depth. 00:09:09.841 --> 00:09:13.101 And I moved up fairly quickly after that. By the time I was 21, 00:09:13.241 --> 00:09:14.361 I was already a sergeant. 00:09:14.521 --> 00:09:18.141 At that time, I was at Florida, Texas. and the collection management side of 00:09:18.141 --> 00:09:21.361 things, managing assets and supporting the warfighter. 00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:29.190 That stop-lost, as you mentioned, at the beginning of 2002. It was about 2002. 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:32.870 February 2002 rolls around. 9-11 had just happened. 00:09:33.130 --> 00:09:38.690 It was stop-lost. It essentially had the exit date or new exit date of Christmas Eve, 2031. 00:09:39.130 --> 00:09:45.570 So I appreciate that now being at 2026 and having been able to have a different

life since then. 00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:49.150 But at the time, I don't necessarily know if I appreciated that moment. 00:09:49.150 --> 00:09:53.130 But that moment was a pretty pivotal one because I went back to Germany, 00:09:53.630 --> 00:09:55.070 had a second tour to Kosovo. 00:09:55.430 --> 00:09:59.990 The Iraq war was taking off. So we went to Iraq literally just three months 00:09:59.990 --> 00:10:01.470 after the tour to Kosovo ended. 00:10:01.850 --> 00:10:06.950 And I probably had the best and worst experiences of my life out in Iraq. 00:10:07.390 --> 00:10:11.350 You know, true wartime environment. You know, at the time it was the beginning 00:10:11.350 --> 00:10:15.430 of what would be known now as ISIS at times of Iraq. 00:10:15.430 --> 00:10:21.970 Iraq, understanding how the insurgency, different tactics of terror organizations, 00:10:22.350 --> 00:10:26.890 all the things that later on down the road would actually be pivotal for my time in the FBI. 00:10:27.450 --> 00:10:31.270 And this really understood how to handle myself under pressure, 00:10:31.690 --> 00:10:38.090 how critical intelligence is to operations, and really how important it is to keeping people safe. 00:10:38.090 --> 00:10:40.950 If you don't understand your environment, if you're not looking at the trends, 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:49.670 if you You're not going to be effective trying to engage or deal with those kind of things. 00:10:50.605 --> 00:10:54.505 Post-military, I went off and I taught at the Army schoolhouse for a while. 00:10:54.745 --> 00:11:00.445 I got the opportunity to kind of pass down some of the things I learned to a new generation. 00:11:01.205 --> 00:11:07.025 And essentially, potentially new soldiers who might go directly from school to war. 00:11:07.645 --> 00:11:12.105 And it was critical for me and several of my friends I'd had a chance to work with. 00:11:12.185 --> 00:11:17.705 I really passed that fresh knowledge along. And we actually wrote a new curriculum 00:11:17.705 --> 00:11:22.265 on the fly because at the time it was still based off of old Cold War stuff. 00:11:22.465 --> 00:11:26.505 We were writing new doctoring and how things worked in real time. 00:11:27.434 --> 00:11:31.854 There for a little bit, got an opportunity to teach surveillance systems for 00:11:31.854 --> 00:11:35.214 a couple of years underneath a new program inside the military. 00:11:35.574 --> 00:11:39.014 This was really cool because it wasn't anything I actually did in the military. 00:11:39.474 --> 00:11:43.834 So I loved to learn. I got a chance to really learn these systems. 00:11:44.194 --> 00:11:45.734 And they were essentially ground surveillance systems. 00:11:46.154 --> 00:11:50.474 And they were like really cool because there were things that can be put into 00:11:50.474 --> 00:11:54.274 fake rocks and kind of stuff that you see today in the modern space. 00:11:54.494 --> 00:11:58.014 They're brand new then. And they also had a lot of capabilities that people 00:11:58.014 --> 00:12:02.634 talk about today, video analytics, you know, the things that now are, 00:12:02.814 --> 00:12:06.194 I think, more mainstream was just kind of launching off them. 00:12:06.574 --> 00:12:10.874 So I got to do that for about two and a half years, traveling to any place that 00:12:10.874 --> 00:12:12.494 was going to deploy direct in Afghanistan. 00:12:12.794 --> 00:12:15.794 So we went to every military post that was at CONUS. 00:12:15.974 --> 00:12:18.574 They included Alaska and Hawaii, and that was awesome. You know, 00:12:18.654 --> 00:12:20.754 I've got to meet a lot of great soldiers, 00:12:21.094 --> 00:12:25.254 a lot of great people, you know, really understand both marketing because a 00:12:25.254 --> 00:12:29.394 lot of the places we went to had no idea about these systems and you had to 00:12:29.394 --> 00:12:32.234 sell what the benefit was before you even touched ground. 00:12:32.534 --> 00:12:36.614 You know, and imagine cold calling a bunch of sergeant majors and stuff saying 00:12:36.614 --> 00:12:37.834 like, oh, you really need this. 00:12:38.254 --> 00:12:43.234 And oh, by the way, give us training sites and, you know, 20 personnel and all 00:12:43.234 --> 00:12:49.974 the things and you don't even know me. and that was a lot of fun and around 00:12:49.974 --> 00:12:52.894 that time the FBI started getting more to the. 00:12:53.450 --> 00:12:58.990 Ironically, in a way I didn't expect, one of my former soldiers went off at 00:12:58.990 --> 00:13:03.350 the college in Arizona, ended up in Epiot Las Vegas during the time period that 00:13:03.350 --> 00:13:05.830 they were really looking at bringing on an intelligence analyst, 00:13:06.070 --> 00:13:08.050 moved up to become a supervisor. 00:13:08.310 --> 00:13:10.910 He calls me up. He was actually one of my first soldiers. 00:13:11.190 --> 00:13:15.170 You know, he calls me up and says like, hey, Rob, you know, let's get the band back together. 00:13:15.470 --> 00:13:17.810 You know, there's a position that's open here. It's a direct hire. 00:13:17.990 --> 00:13:19.770 You still have to go through the process and stuff. 00:13:19.910 --> 00:13:22.250 You know, but you, you know, you should put in for it. you know, 00:13:22.290 --> 00:13:26.190 Benifort got that position with the Quantico, you know, got into, 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:29.270 you know, FBI Las Vegas and Las Vegas was awesome. 00:13:29.390 --> 00:13:32.890 If you wanted to learn the FBI, everything goes on there, you know, 00:13:32.970 --> 00:13:36.450 so, you know, I think a lot of people think of organized crime element, 00:13:36.890 --> 00:13:38.750 but it's a transshipment hub. 00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:43.310 So every possible thing is investigated there and it's a smaller office. 00:13:43.450 --> 00:13:47.330 So you had a chance to touch all the different things that the FBI works. 00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:52.430 And I think of it as a part of ultimate, you know,

like college was being there at Las Vegas. 00:13:53.712 --> 00:13:58.352 Because there wasn't a single thing that was going on nationally that you could not see in Las Vegas. 00:13:59.172 --> 00:14:04.292 And within three years, I was promoted to become a supervisory intelligence 00:14:04.292 --> 00:14:08.752 analyst down in San Diego over a group that worked cross-border kidnapping, 00:14:09.112 --> 00:14:10.872 gangs, drug trafficking. 00:14:11.292 --> 00:14:14.232 Some of that stuff I had touched in Las Vegas, but this was a deeper cut. 00:14:14.432 --> 00:14:18.032 But I would also position inside the San Diego Fusion Center. 00:14:18.172 --> 00:14:21.612 For those who don't know what that is, that's where all law enforcement comes 00:14:21.612 --> 00:14:23.912 and works together at all laws. state, federal, local. 00:14:24.452 --> 00:14:27.332 And at the time, that relationship there wasn't the best. 00:14:27.632 --> 00:14:31.812 I managed to repair that relationship and put it in a much better position. 00:14:32.052 --> 00:14:34.952 Around that time, I started getting looks from FBI headquarters. 00:14:35.512 --> 00:14:39.092 I had to go to their, what they call their inspection division, went there. 00:14:39.352 --> 00:14:42.132 And essentially, inspection does audits of process procedures, 00:14:42.532 --> 00:14:43.652 how offices are running. 00:14:43.872 --> 00:14:47.052 And that gave me a chance to see how everything worked. 00:14:47.192 --> 00:14:51.332 And at the time, my goal and full transparency was to run the FBI's intelligence 00:14:51.332 --> 00:14:54.172 program at the end of the day. That's what I was moving towards. 00:14:54.412 --> 00:14:59.492 So inspection really was, you could diagnose how programs are going and then 00:14:59.492 --> 00:15:05.412 recommend some solutions based off of their manpower, based off of best practices, what have you. 00:15:05.652 --> 00:15:09.692 My last couple of years in FBI were really cool because it was on the tech space, 00:15:09.932 --> 00:15:11.892 which has benefited me probably the most. 00:15:12.192 --> 00:15:16.592 And what's funny inside the agency, tech wasn't the most popular because it's 00:15:16.592 --> 00:15:20.172 not the thing that really makes the news, but it's the most essential because 00:15:20.172 --> 00:15:23.392 everything that operations does is based around. 00:15:23.832 --> 00:15:27.312 So, you know, everything from big data, geospatial analysis, 00:15:27.752 --> 00:15:31.672 you know, any of the tools and processes, you know, having a chance to have 00:15:31.672 --> 00:15:35.852 visibility over all of the major ones that work for agency impact was huge. 00:15:36.032 --> 00:15:38.572 It was huge for my career, huge for my knowledge base. 00:15:38.892 --> 00:15:43.472 That parlayed me to a job as being the FBI's Senior National Times and Office 00:15:43.472 --> 00:15:46.792 of Science and Technology, technology, a job that technically was sunsetted 00:15:46.792 --> 00:15:49.492 several years before, but no one really saw the value in it. 00:15:49.592 --> 00:15:51.552 So this is around 2017 and 2018. 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.349 I was able to demonstrate that there's true value on it and was able to become 00:15:56.349 --> 00:15:58.349 the FBI's expert on emerging tech. 00:15:58.849 --> 00:16:02.769 So everything from quantum photography to AI, 00:16:03.469 --> 00:16:07.769 cryptocurrency, all the things that it's more commonly spoken about today was 00:16:07.769 --> 00:16:14.049 really just making the wave slowly, particularly inside the DC beltway. 00:16:14.049 --> 00:16:16.889 So I was able to really establish myself there. 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:19.969 And it was cool because I could just sit there and geek out with folks who were 00:16:19.969 --> 00:16:21.329 actually experts in the field, 00:16:21.869 --> 00:16:25.849 digest it, and then bring it back to decision makers, the deputy director at 00:16:25.849 --> 00:16:29.769 the time, attorney general, so they could understand what the policy impacts 00:16:29.769 --> 00:16:33.549 were and then what potential impacts they were for operations. 00:16:33.729 --> 00:16:37.769 I opened up the door to probably, as you said, the coolest opportunity of all 00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:43.209 time. And, you know, around that period, I was presenting a lot around the D.C. Beltway. 00:16:43.469 --> 00:16:47.629 A friend of mine asked for a favor to go out to the Las Vegas Global Security 00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:51.369 Exchange to give him a presentation. The time was at 5G and quad bones. 00:16:51.589 --> 00:16:55.269 And it was an unclassified presentation. Had given out to the D.C. 00:16:55.389 --> 00:16:57.309 Beltway for about a couple of months at that point. 00:16:57.549 --> 00:17:00.549 Super popular because a lot of businesses didn't understand the impacts. 00:17:01.049 --> 00:17:04.849 And, you know, this presentation was tailor-made for this event. 00:17:05.478 --> 00:17:09.018 I had heard the chief security officer at NFL was actually going to be out there, 00:17:09.178 --> 00:17:12.418 but I was not looking. I was in a good position in my agency. 00:17:13.138 --> 00:17:16.618 And we were the last presentation of the day. I'm thinking most folks should 00:17:16.618 --> 00:17:18.978 be out in happy hours. It's Las Vegas. It's 3.30 p.m. 00:17:19.278 --> 00:17:22.578 Why would you be staying around at a conference? But it was standing room only. 00:17:22.738 --> 00:17:26.218 And unbeknownst to me, in the audience, I think actually in the front row, 00:17:26.438 --> 00:17:28.958 the chiefs, the safety or security officer was there. 00:17:29.238 --> 00:17:34.478 They had just gotten approval after a couple of years of getting kind of the Heisman for this. 00:17:34.478 --> 00:17:37.458 They finally get the approval to build an intelligence program and 00:17:37.458 --> 00:17:40.298 a global security operations program or had the job 00:17:40.298 --> 00:17:42.958

description that they're about to post my bio is right on the other 00:17:42.958 --> 00:17:45.918 side they're listening to me speak and they walk away 00:17:45.918 --> 00:17:49.878 and say that's the person you know so i meet them a week later not thinking 00:17:49.878 --> 00:17:53.638 that this is the reason i'm meeting them and they offer me the job on the spot 00:17:53.638 --> 00:17:57.258 and it was a much harder decision than i think it sounds like they're of course 00:17:57.258 --> 00:18:02.998 why would you turn that down when you're at this point it's almost 10 years you know in the FBI, 00:18:03.558 --> 00:18:07.598 you know, that's a big decision point where you are moving towards a guy who 00:18:07.598 --> 00:18:10.998 gets your retirement, you're having a good career trajectory and potentially 00:18:10.998 --> 00:18:12.258 going off to the unknown. 00:18:12.518 --> 00:18:16.258 But I also knew that something like this would never happen again. 00:18:16.518 --> 00:18:20.298 Like these set of factors, it would be literally impossible for this to happen 00:18:20.298 --> 00:18:25.318 again, and I would regret it for the rest of my life if I didn't make that move. 00:18:25.518 --> 00:18:31.038 Uh, so I did. Uh, so, you know, 20, I came at the end of the 2018, beginning to 2019. 00:18:31.990 --> 00:18:37.970 NFL season, went straight into the playoffs and got to see the game for what it is. 00:18:38.190 --> 00:18:41.690 I didn't really think about how intelligence would support the game. 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:44.710 My first thing was the Atlanta Super Bowl in 2019. 00:18:45.030 --> 00:18:49.410 So building that capability for really the first time that everything's done. 00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:54.370 And from there, growing a team, building all the processes, building how we 00:18:54.370 --> 00:18:57.530 would support things from a security perspective and larger. 00:18:57.810 --> 00:19:03.250 And we built a very robust apparatus in a short period of time with some of 00:19:03.250 --> 00:19:07.610 my friends that I brought over from various parts of my timeline, 00:19:07.610 --> 00:19:11.150 but also some folks who were kind of new to the business as well. 00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:16.170 And yeah, we went straight from the first season, which ended with the Miami 00:19:16.170 --> 00:19:18.010 Super Bowl, went straight to the pandemic. 00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:21.790 And there's a lot to kind of talk about that. I'll go into more detail on that 00:19:21.790 --> 00:19:25.510 later. But that didn't let me eventually here to LA Metro. 00:19:25.850 --> 00:19:30.350 Now on the precipice of some of the largest events in world history. 00:19:30.510 --> 00:19:34.630 We have the World Cup in a couple of months. We have a Super Bowl again in next 00:19:34.630 --> 00:19:36.870 February. And then we have the Olympics in Paris. 00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:40.220 Rob, what a great career. Thank you for walking us through this. 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:44.480 So many cool things. I do want to go back a little bit to your army time. 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:50.280 You know, as you were coming up through the army, you're getting promoted, you know, use acetate. 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:54.180 And I remember that the overlays and you're using dry erase markers to do intelligence 00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:55.400 preparation of the battlefield. 00:19:55.620 --> 00:19:59.460 I remember those days, you know, as you were going through your military career 00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:01.880 from that first time you were using it into Kosovo. 00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:05.560 I mean, you went back to Kosovo another time and then you transitioned to Iraq. 00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:08.260 How did it change, and what did you learn from that? 00:20:08.780 --> 00:20:13.840 Very good question, first off, Jeremy. So when we first were planning to go 00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:18.040 to Kosovo, the Toss preparation of the battlefield, everything I learned at 00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:19.180 the schoolhouse was a real thing. 00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:22.060 I will never forget this for as long as I live. 00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:25.600 When I first started to start rigs, I'm sure he's out there listening to somewhere, 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.700 a great human being, but we spent hours standing in front of maps and acetate 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:35.800 and drawing out where we thought the military resources would be and what challenges 00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:38.700 we would have on the battlefield, where our base was going to be and whatnot. 00:20:38.860 --> 00:20:40.380 But you're also spending a lot of time reading. 00:20:40.660 --> 00:20:44.520 You're reading a lot of documents as far as the political environment. 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.100 What kind of other issues are out there that we need to know and understand, 00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:52.320 a lot of preparation before you even touch the ground. 00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:56.780 And that really gave you an understanding of, hey, this is real. 00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:59.580 Because I think sometimes in a schoolhouse, it feels like far off. 00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:03.480 When you're actually doing it and these plans actually mean something, 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.340 It is a whole different level of discussion. 00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:10.700 In between, you're doing training exercises and whatnot to kind of prep yourself 00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:13.400 mentally on what it's going to look like. 00:21:13.540 --> 00:21:16.020 And my role was a lot of command center operations. 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:21.120 So understanding what assets we're going to have out there, how we engage with 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:26.080 our other partners, operations, logistics, anyone else that's in play. 00:21:26.540 --> 00:21:29.800 And then going from that into reality was... 00:21:30.586 --> 00:21:33.286 Crazy, because sometimes it feels surreal. You know, like when you're actually 00:21:33.286 --> 00:21:35.006 there,

like, okay, I'm here. 00:21:35.246 --> 00:21:37.766 You're building out, you know, we're living in tents, you know, 00:21:37.826 --> 00:21:41.206 in the hot summer in Kosovo and eventually building infrastructure, 00:21:41.206 --> 00:21:43.566 you know, as you're doing this day-to-day work. 00:21:43.826 --> 00:21:48.606 And I will say those deployments are the most exciting because you're actually 00:21:48.606 --> 00:21:53.906 putting your job to the test and you really are seeing how good you are or maybe 00:21:53.906 --> 00:21:55.726 how good you're not at certain things. 00:21:56.346 --> 00:22:00.006 One thing I'll always appreciate is the military always challenges you, 00:22:00.006 --> 00:22:02.086 even with things that you're not comfortable with. 00:22:02.366 --> 00:22:07.166 I don't think I liked briefing before that deployment, but essentially I get 00:22:07.166 --> 00:22:12.846 asked very nicely that you'll be the briefer for the entire time. 00:22:12.846 --> 00:22:16.546 As you know, once you've got a command tool, it is what it is and you're doing it. 00:22:16.666 --> 00:22:21.346 And that kind of opened my aperture a lot as far as my briefing skills. 00:22:22.506 --> 00:22:26.926 It's not all fun and games. You get a lot of feedback, I'll say that way, 00:22:27.026 --> 00:22:31.926 from your audience. but in ways that are pretty more direct and I think most 00:22:31.926 --> 00:22:33.786 people experience in the regular business world. 00:22:34.206 --> 00:22:37.146 But those actually refined me in so many different ways. 00:22:37.346 --> 00:22:40.906 So the sequel, when I went back, it was a completely different ballgame. 00:22:41.086 --> 00:22:42.306 Already knew where Kosovo was about. 00:22:42.546 --> 00:22:47.106 It was back in the same days. The ground situation had changed extremely. 00:22:47.366 --> 00:22:52.166 It was no longer a place that had just come out of a situation which they were invaded. 00:22:52.626 --> 00:22:55.726 Now you've had a couple of years for regular life to come back. 00:22:55.726 --> 00:23:00.226 And it was really a light mission, I will say Like we did a lot of work. 00:23:00.995 --> 00:23:04.475 On the political side, meeting with local leaders, you know, 00:23:04.635 --> 00:23:09.415 understanding if there's like kind of small pockets of, of the surges, 00:23:09.495 --> 00:23:10.555 you know, stuff that was going on. 00:23:10.915 --> 00:23:15.035 But generally speaking, now you have more familiarity and I would say more confidence 00:23:15.035 --> 00:23:18.275 for me as an Intel professional, because at this point, SQL, 00:23:18.495 --> 00:23:21.895 I was a staff sergeant, you know, now I'm running operations, 00:23:22.315 --> 00:23:26.515 you know, and taking all the lessons learned, partner on a new cast and crew 00:23:26.515 --> 00:23:30.555 who didn't necessarily have the same experiences I had the first time. 00:23:31.075 --> 00:23:34.175 You know, I want to kind of build on that, Rob, because, you know, 00:23:34.235 --> 00:23:36.675 you mentioned that you were one of the first ones in with Kosovo. 00:23:36.855 --> 00:23:40.975 And I know you're a prolific student and that you were, you know, 00:23:41.515 --> 00:23:45.235 incredibly smart, but I can't imagine that you had a lot of background on the 00:23:45.235 --> 00:23:51.055 history and the cultural phenomenon that was around all things Kosovo. 00:23:51.055 --> 00:23:54.435 So, you know, you're going in there and you quickly put on the hot seat to be 00:23:54.435 --> 00:23:57.235 the briefer to the senior commander. 00:23:57.575 --> 00:24:04.515 How did you quickly get good information that you felt comfortable was accurate? 00:24:04.635 --> 00:24:07.575 Because that's the other problem, especially nowadays, is which information 00:24:07.575 --> 00:24:12.335 is accurate in order to feel confident to be able to answer those hard questions 00:24:12.335 --> 00:24:14.335 from the commander. Great question. 00:24:15.135 --> 00:24:18.795 Part of it is some of the unspoken skills of critical thinking. 00:24:18.795 --> 00:24:21.455 So, you know, you get a lot of information in this field. 00:24:21.735 --> 00:24:24.075 You have to parse through it. That's the ask of the job. 00:24:24.415 --> 00:24:28.315 So, you know, some of it's by experience. Some of it's being surrounded by folks 00:24:28.315 --> 00:24:29.455 who really know what they're doing. 00:24:29.615 --> 00:24:33.035 Because when you're first touching this stuff, you know, there is a possibility 00:24:33.035 --> 00:24:35.375 that you're going to take everything as a fact. 00:24:35.735 --> 00:24:38.435 You know, any bit of information that's coming in, you know, 00:24:38.515 --> 00:24:40.755 anything that you're getting as far as ground reports or whatnot. 00:24:40.975 --> 00:24:42.895 So you have to do a lot of work on collaboration. 00:24:43.215 --> 00:24:46.555 Like, okay, we're hearing that someone's saying this, you know, 00:24:46.655 --> 00:24:51.015 or person X is saying that this is going on. of what other information we're having. 00:24:52.371 --> 00:24:55.851 Set up you know do we have anything that could show that's legitimately true 00:24:55.851 --> 00:24:58.931 during those first couple of months of being out there you 00:24:58.931 --> 00:25:02.111 know i'll tell you it's very challenging because you're still understanding 00:25:02.111 --> 00:25:04.771 the environment and you know you're right there's still a lot 00:25:04.771 --> 00:25:07.691 of cultural challenges as well because you know no 00:25:07.691 --> 00:25:10.631 matter how much you read you still don't fully get it 00:25:10.631 --> 00:25:13.371 until you see it in reality you know and there's a 00:25:13.371 --> 00:25:16.151 lot of idiosyncrasies there's a lot of things that you 00:25:16.151 --> 00:25:19.211 might necessarily pick up that you only learn over time 00:25:19.211 --> 00:25:22.371 so some of it was just being in the environment over 00:25:22.371 -->

00:25:25.291 a period of time and seeing patterns and trends 00:25:25.291 --> 00:25:28.351 essentially you know of things that you start then you 00:25:28.351 --> 00:25:31.071 start understand dynamics of the like the local towns and the 00:25:31.071 --> 00:25:34.851 cities and you start understanding what kind of activities are going on where 00:25:34.851 --> 00:25:41.191 now you're more of an anticipatory stage where as patrols go out you can ask 00:25:41.191 --> 00:25:45.051 them to gather more information you know and there's different kind of methods 00:25:45.051 --> 00:25:48.391 at that point to really understand what your your battle space is. 00:25:49.151 --> 00:25:52.071 And, you know, I'll say that's probably the same for every deployment. 00:25:52.191 --> 00:25:55.251 I've been on minus a SQL to the Kosovo because I already knew where we're going to. 00:25:56.053 --> 00:25:58.953 It was the same for Iraq. You know, didn't really know the environment at the time. 00:25:59.173 --> 00:26:03.293 Had some ideas, but it really wasn't until we were there for a couple of months. 00:26:03.433 --> 00:26:06.373 You're seeing some recording and stuff going on. You're seeing an incident come in. 00:26:06.573 --> 00:26:11.013 Now you start understanding, you know, the right sources, the right types of 00:26:11.013 --> 00:26:13.773 information that makes sense versus stuff that's kind of like fluff, 00:26:14.033 --> 00:26:15.113 you know, and misinformation. 00:26:15.353 --> 00:26:17.473 Things that we still very much still want today. 00:26:17.893 --> 00:26:20.893 Yeah, spot on. I recall the 90s, right? The post-Cold War days, 00:26:20.973 --> 00:26:22.593 if you will. The wall had already fallen. 00:26:22.993 --> 00:26:25.933 Bosnia and Kosovo happened and monopolized the majority of the 90s. 00:26:26.053 --> 00:26:28.213 And then boom, 9-11 happens. 00:26:28.713 --> 00:26:32.853 Rob, what was that transition like from that post-Cold War into 9-11? 00:26:33.033 --> 00:26:37.593 Because there's a significantly different enemy that we're all sudden pivoting to. 00:26:37.833 --> 00:26:42.433 An amazing question, because I think for all the Intel professionals I know 00:26:42.433 --> 00:26:47.473 personally who were with me at that period of time, it was a splash of cold water to the face. 00:26:47.633 --> 00:26:52.113 Because even a week prior to that, I think we were out in an exercise. 00:26:52.173 --> 00:26:54.073 I think it was one of our longest ones. 00:26:54.213 --> 00:26:57.953 And we're still training Cold War. You know, so, you know, all the tactics, 00:26:58.153 --> 00:27:00.853 everything we're doing was very much focused on that space. 00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:05.229 When 9-11 happened, it was like, oh, wow. 00:27:05.529 --> 00:27:08.349 You know, not only was it a blind spot, you know, for us at the time, 00:27:08.389 --> 00:27:10.169 it was something that we were not familiar with. 00:27:10.409 --> 00:27:14.109 So you're essentially going, you know, trying to find as much threat reporting 00:27:14.109 --> 00:27:17.929 as possible, you know, trying to rely on some of the foundational stuff that 00:27:17.929 --> 00:27:20.049 brought you to the dance, that got you there. 00:27:20.209 --> 00:27:24.669 And it's like, okay, we've studied Cold War and those forces for years. 00:27:24.929 --> 00:27:28.109 There's some similarities as far as how you studied those things. 00:27:28.109 --> 00:27:31.589 Because everyone has tactics, but this is a completely different ideologies, 00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:33.609 completely different ways of doing business. 00:27:34.369 --> 00:27:38.969 And, you know, we had to dive in quickly. So there was a lot of days of working 00:27:38.969 --> 00:27:45.089 18 to 20 hour days trying to get it spun up as what's going on because a couple of days after 9-11, 00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:51.229 no one still fully understood like who we were dealing with and what the challenge was going to be. 00:27:51.569 --> 00:27:57.289 And now I think for the intelligence profession, it's probably professionalized 00:27:57.289 --> 00:28:03.009 it the most because I will say leading up to that, and even aside the military, 00:28:03.569 --> 00:28:08.669 intel wasn't given its full due at that point in time because I think even on 00:28:08.669 --> 00:28:12.329 the operational side, you can pretty much guess where folks are going to do 00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:13.929 based on the terrain and the battle space. 00:28:14.149 --> 00:28:18.989 This was a completely different scenario when you really didn't know what an 00:28:18.989 --> 00:28:22.789 enemy was capable of and how they could approach things, and you have a bunch 00:28:22.789 --> 00:28:26.749 of different groups, and everyone has their different tactics and way of doing business. 00:28:26.749 --> 00:28:30.849 You know, so now you're trying to study at multiple levels of things, 00:28:31.069 --> 00:28:35.549 you know, and understand the differences between who's what and who has the 00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:39.169 ability to actually impact something where you're at versus, 00:28:39.189 --> 00:28:40.469 you know, the only operator. 00:28:41.236 --> 00:28:45.536 Certain areas of the globe. All of that, yeah, was a fascinating time. 00:28:45.696 --> 00:28:50.436 But I think, to me, it's the most important time for my own career as an intel professional. 00:28:51.156 --> 00:28:54.916 So fast forwarding a little bit, you know, you get out of the Army after your 00:28:54.916 --> 00:28:56.556 stop loss, it'll eventually let you go. 00:28:56.736 --> 00:29:00.616 And you go into from being an analyst to actually training analysts. 00:29:00.896 --> 00:29:04.296 And then you make your time in your FBI, your leading analysts. 00:29:04.516 --> 00:29:08.876 And I think Jeremy will agree with me, but we've had the pleasure of working 00:29:08.876 --> 00:29:15.076 with some incredible analysts that truly did move mountains operationally with

00:29:15.076 --> 00:29:17.016 some of the insights they were able to provide or leads. 00:29:17.316 --> 00:29:21.296 We've also worked with some that weren't as good. So my question for you is 00:29:21.296 --> 00:29:25.456 having seen and trained and worked alongside, what makes a good analyst? 00:29:25.596 --> 00:29:26.836 What are those intangibles? 00:29:26.996 --> 00:29:31.036 What are the things that you look for that tell you this person is going to 00:29:31.036 --> 00:29:32.196 be that difference maker? 00:29:32.936 --> 00:29:38.736 Wow, that's an amazing question because I've had the chance to assess this at 00:29:38.736 --> 00:29:43.156 so many different avenues, both at the schoolhouse and as you mentioned, 00:29:43.436 --> 00:29:45.396 certainly at the field office side and the FBI. 00:29:46.529 --> 00:29:51.929 The one intangible I look for is the willingness to learn. It's a very dynamic field. 00:29:52.269 --> 00:29:56.929 You've really got to want it. You've really got to want to learn because it's 00:29:56.929 --> 00:30:01.529 easy to get locked into a certain bias or a certain mindset when it comes to 00:30:01.529 --> 00:30:05.649 information or your knowledge of how different groups and whatnot operate. 00:30:06.209 --> 00:30:11.769 The other would definitely be motivation. I know for in the schoolhouse, 00:30:12.149 --> 00:30:15.869 you know, my best students were once were the most motivated who really wanted 00:30:15.869 --> 00:30:20.469 to dig into the information, you know, really wanted to ask the hard questions 00:30:20.469 --> 00:30:23.769 and were actually thinking about this, you know, like, okay, 00:30:23.909 --> 00:30:25.549 how do I apply this practically? 00:30:25.849 --> 00:30:29.429 How does this make sense? You know, while you take theory and what I learned 00:30:29.429 --> 00:30:31.369 at the schoolhouse to actual real thing. 00:30:31.669 --> 00:30:35.009 And I would say the last one for me is to be able to connect dots. 00:30:35.089 --> 00:30:40.169 And it might seem simple, but it's not. And there's a lot of folks who look 00:30:40.169 --> 00:30:43.709 at the information and I'll, I'll quote one of my Chronicle teachers, 00:30:44.169 --> 00:30:47.149 Chuck Summers, who was just an amazing instructor. 00:30:47.988 --> 00:30:51.068 And he would always say that, you know, the worst kind of analyst would be like, 00:30:51.388 --> 00:30:53.128 you know, this is what I heard. 00:30:53.368 --> 00:30:56.988 And this is why I think, you know, like, like you just literally take exactly what you heard. 00:30:57.228 --> 00:31:02.028 And then you just regurgitate that out as fact, instead of actually listening 00:31:02.028 --> 00:31:05.548 and trying to understand the correlation between different pieces of information. 00:31:06.008 --> 00:31:10.968 Even if there's some abstract correlation between things, that could be the 00:31:10.968 --> 00:31:15.308 difference between, you know, like an FBI solving the case or something that's 00:31:15.308 --> 00:31:16.948 going to the waste. side. 00:31:17.168 --> 00:31:22.648 And I had the opportunity in both sides to mentor a lot of up-becoming analysts. 00:31:22.828 --> 00:31:28.108 And I'll tell you, the ones that continue now, even now, are doing amazing in 00:31:28.108 --> 00:31:30.068 their careers, no matter where they've landed, 00:31:30.608 --> 00:31:35.588 or the ones that had those intangibles, that really dug into the information, 00:31:36.028 --> 00:31:39.868 were relentless about it. Like, okay, I'm seeing something here. 00:31:40.248 --> 00:31:43.248 It doesn't make sense. You're questioning the information. 00:31:43.428 --> 00:31:47.248 You're really trying to unpack what's going on, as opposed to just taking whatever 00:31:47.248 --> 00:31:50.808 cookie cutter thing that comes your way, I think, oh, it's obviously that. 00:31:50.928 --> 00:31:54.328 And if something doesn't fall into that box, then you don't understand. 00:31:55.368 --> 00:31:59.808 That's kind of where I look at it. Even now, even though I'm not in those traditional 00:31:59.808 --> 00:32:04.928 roles, we are building a similar capability in my current role. 00:32:05.288 --> 00:32:10.428 And those are the tangles I look for when I look at, okay, can you do the job 00:32:10.428 --> 00:32:13.788 versus are you sitting in the seat? And there's two different things. 00:32:14.368 --> 00:32:18.368 Yeah, it's a huge shout out to any analyst out there. You are a significant 00:32:18.368 --> 00:32:20.928 false multiplier. Thank you for doing what you do. 00:32:21.428 --> 00:32:24.268 And Rob, I want to go back to when you're eight years old and you're playing 00:32:24.268 --> 00:32:27.488 cops and robbers, excuse me, FBI and robbers. 00:32:27.788 --> 00:32:32.948 So as you start to transition into the FBI, how did the military set you up? 00:32:33.008 --> 00:32:35.228 And was your mentor spot on with his advice? 00:32:36.248 --> 00:32:40.868 Yes. Well, for one, my mentor was spot on. How did the military set me up? 00:32:41.578 --> 00:32:45.698 I will say, you know, like the military, you come in for a different level of 00:32:45.698 --> 00:32:48.158 motivation and focus on the mission. 00:32:48.438 --> 00:32:51.318 Like, I'll never forget my first couple of weeks at my new office, 00:32:51.518 --> 00:32:53.018 you know, and I was pumped. 00:32:53.218 --> 00:32:57.358 You know, like this is my life dream coming into the life. So I wanted everything. 00:32:57.618 --> 00:33:00.758 You know, so anything, any assignment that was given was like, I'm on it. 00:33:01.278 --> 00:33:04.818 And, you know, the military really does impart that mission first. 00:33:05.098 --> 00:33:08.578 You know, like any assignment, any mission that you're taking seriously. 00:33:08.578 --> 00:33:11.358 It's not just like i oh i might get 00:33:11.358 --> 00:33:14.178 to do this or whatever like no you really want to get it done 00:33:14.178 --> 00:33:17.378 and you

want to see it through and we had some veterans 00:33:17.378 --> 00:33:22.638 in my first group and they had a similar mindset too but that really led to 00:33:22.638 --> 00:33:27.598 a lot of success because in that space you got to really demonstrate the fact 00:33:27.598 --> 00:33:32.098 that you are you're willing to go after it and you know you take it seriously 00:33:32.098 --> 00:33:35.978 because it's a serious mission so when you you're given these assignments you're 00:33:35.978 --> 00:33:37.318 not just taking it for what it is, 00:33:37.478 --> 00:33:40.698 you're realizing these implications and you, at the end of the day, 00:33:40.798 --> 00:33:41.618 want to keep people safe. 00:33:41.818 --> 00:33:45.898 You know, so when you have those, those kind of ideals and you, 00:33:46.078 --> 00:33:49.758 when things come through, it's like, okay, you know, what do you need me to do? 00:33:49.918 --> 00:33:53.918 You know, I'll work 16, 18 hours to run this down because at the end of the 00:33:53.918 --> 00:33:55.658 day, I don't want something to go boom. 00:33:55.838 --> 00:33:58.838 You know, so, you know, anything, you know what that looks like, 00:33:58.858 --> 00:34:00.958 because you've seen the other side of that. 00:34:02.698 --> 00:34:05.418 Whole thing you know if something goes wrong you know what 00:34:05.418 --> 00:34:08.558 that looks like so that the military really makes you 00:34:08.558 --> 00:34:11.798 strong makes you able to handle like the high pressure situations 00:34:11.798 --> 00:34:14.798 because you've been in high pressure so it's you 00:34:14.798 --> 00:34:19.718 just come with a different set of skills that you know no no to folks who stay 00:34:19.718 --> 00:34:23.498 in the civilian world and whatnot but you come ready baked because you're tested 00:34:23.498 --> 00:34:28.398 all the time and i would say lastly there's a degree of confidence with that 00:34:28.398 --> 00:34:32.278 because you know I mentioned the feedback that we get on briefs. 00:34:32.458 --> 00:34:36.318 When you've been chewed out 1,001 times, you have some thick skin. 00:34:36.518 --> 00:34:41.038 So you're willing to take the criticism as you're learning because you've gotten 00:34:41.038 --> 00:34:43.938 that for years. So that's nothing new for you. 00:34:44.258 --> 00:34:47.898 But you know that criticism allows you to level up. 00:34:48.398 --> 00:34:51.698 And that allowed me to level up because I'll just dive right in. 00:34:52.018 --> 00:34:55.238 If I screw them up, I'll get that feedback, got it, move on. 00:34:56.418 --> 00:35:02.018 And yeah, I mean, the military really continues to have a major impact on my success, even today. 00:35:02.707 --> 00:35:08.207 All right. So I've got one for you. I'm sure you've heard the saying, paralysis by analysis. 00:35:08.787 --> 00:35:13.367 And, you know, I think it's kind of an interesting one because I had an old 00:35:13.367 --> 00:35:16.227 boss that used to tell me that there's different kind of leaders out there. 00:35:16.447 --> 00:35:20.647 There's some that need 60 to 70 percent of the information to make a decision, 00:35:20.867 --> 00:35:24.427 some that need 80 to 85, and then some that need 95 to 100. 00:35:24.827 --> 00:35:28.627 And, you know, the point of what he was telling me there was you're never going 00:35:28.627 --> 00:35:32.147 to have complete information. So you have to be able to make decisions with 00:35:32.147 --> 00:35:33.127 imperfect information. 00:35:33.327 --> 00:35:38.767 You're in a high stress job now. How much information is enough to make a decision? 00:35:39.447 --> 00:35:45.287 Oh, that's a great question. You know, I would say most days that I deal with 00:35:45.287 --> 00:35:48.947 an incident or situation, I'm already starting with 60, 70%. 00:35:48.947 --> 00:35:53.887 So, you know, right from the jump, you know, I know I need to gather for at 00:35:53.887 --> 00:35:58.107 least another 10 to 15%, you know, before I start ringing the alarm bells, 00:35:58.227 --> 00:36:01.267 like, Hey, there like to do something more and some of those are you know 00:36:01.267 --> 00:36:04.167 having my team ask some critical questions you know 00:36:04.167 --> 00:36:06.867 to understand like okay and they always depends on 00:36:06.867 --> 00:36:09.747 the severity of the situation too you know if there's something 00:36:09.747 --> 00:36:12.527 like you know hijacking you know 00:36:12.527 --> 00:36:15.467 you know that you need probably 80 to 85 00:36:15.467 --> 00:36:19.147 percent understanding information because you're about to ring a lot of bells 00:36:19.147 --> 00:36:22.767 at the moment like i need confirmation i need to know where things are at and 00:36:22.767 --> 00:36:26.687 you know what's actually happening uh for some of the more day-to-day you know 00:36:26.687 --> 00:36:29.967 i could work with 60 to 70 because I at least have a general understanding of 00:36:29.967 --> 00:36:32.667 what's going on. And I know at that point, 00:36:33.261 --> 00:36:38.661 What I need to do as a decision maker to make sure we get as much information for the good of boss. 00:36:38.861 --> 00:36:41.961 I have enough to at least provide a heads up to my bosses. 00:36:42.201 --> 00:36:45.321 You know, I have enough to provide a heads up to our larger quarter public. 00:36:45.501 --> 00:36:49.801 You know, just because you know the parameters of that, they might shift a bit, 00:36:49.961 --> 00:36:55.221 but they're not going to shift so much that what you're given initially is so wide off the mark. 00:36:55.441 --> 00:36:58.901 You know, but you're still moving stuff along. Now, something larger. 00:36:59.561 --> 00:37:03.281 You know, I think you need a little bit more confirmation just because the cascading 00:37:03.281 --> 00:37:11.361 effects of what you do could either paralyze the situation and it makes you in a worse scenario, 00:37:11.361 --> 00:37:16.941 or you can set things in motion that

inadvertently create a larger issue. 00:37:17.101 --> 00:37:19.901 And then the real issue is not actually happened. 00:37:20.141 --> 00:37:24.701 So it's a day by day kind of thing. I definitely understand the analysis of 00:37:24.701 --> 00:37:28.641 paralysis. This is, you know, we are in Metro, we're constantly moving people 00:37:28.641 --> 00:37:31.381 and, you know, buses and trains. 00:37:31.561 --> 00:37:36.281 You know, so we're constantly thinking about how do we keep things moving in a safe way, of course. 00:37:36.701 --> 00:37:41.021 You know, so for us, those decision points, you know, at times you just have to work what you got. 00:37:41.661 --> 00:37:45.381 And, you know, the goal meaning that you're gradually leveling up that level 00:37:45.381 --> 00:37:47.321 of information as the situation is going on. 00:37:47.541 --> 00:37:51.401 But there's definitely no luxury here because you're always dealing with time. 00:37:51.401 --> 00:37:55.701 And other places that I've worked with, you know, time might be a luxury. 00:37:55.901 --> 00:37:59.381 You might have some time to kind of like figure things out and determine, 00:37:59.621 --> 00:38:01.301 okay, what's actually going on? 00:38:01.461 --> 00:38:07.641 And you can actually wait for 90 to 95% of information to make the best decision of all time. 00:38:07.761 --> 00:38:11.421 And I hope for anyone's in that position, that's a great place to be. 00:38:11.601 --> 00:38:14.821 But in most times, you're never going to get that luxury. 00:38:15.061 --> 00:38:19.121 You can have just, you know, a crazy text come through and it has the information 00:38:19.121 --> 00:38:22.121 that you're just going to be working with and you just have to kind of, 00:38:22.121 --> 00:38:23.261 you know, operate from there. 00:38:23.461 --> 00:38:26.401 Pull on your right, you know, the rest of your leadership team, 00:38:26.621 --> 00:38:30.381 you know, get the right things moving, you know, and kind of work to build out 00:38:30.381 --> 00:38:31.161 that picture from there. 00:38:31.704 --> 00:38:35.404 I've seen it through my military career. Leaders want all the information before 00:38:35.404 --> 00:38:38.004 they make a decision, and by then it's too late. 00:38:38.464 --> 00:38:41.724 Boy, I'm glad. It doesn't make sense to me. 00:38:42.284 --> 00:38:46.064 Rob, I would be remiss if I didn't ask this question because it's the NFL. 00:38:46.544 --> 00:38:50.144 Here you are transitioning from the Bureau of the NFL, and you had to set up 00:38:50.144 --> 00:38:52.304 a global security operations center. 00:38:52.404 --> 00:38:54.824 You said that was the most challenging as you introduced it. 00:38:55.024 --> 00:39:00.144 Why was it the most challenging? A couple of different things are happening at once. 00:39:00.384 --> 00:39:03.084 You have to learn a new business. 00:39:04.044 --> 00:39:10.724 A place like the NFL is certainly not the FBI. It's certainly like the military. Their focus is the

game. 00:39:11.384 --> 00:39:15.824 It's football. It's getting these events that surround the game out there. 00:39:15.824 --> 00:39:18.284 You know, so you have to understand that culture. 00:39:18.664 --> 00:39:22.544 And if you're building a global security operations center, you're building 00:39:22.544 --> 00:39:26.524 stuff based on your knowledge that's mostly based on government and military. 00:39:27.302 --> 00:39:30.782 Your stakeholders are not government or military, by and large. 00:39:30.862 --> 00:39:35.222 In fact, I believe all the veterans that we had who were also at law firms and 00:39:35.222 --> 00:39:37.042 back firms were only in the security department. 00:39:37.262 --> 00:39:42.882 And so everyone else was unfamiliar with that background. So everything for them is scary. 00:39:43.482 --> 00:39:48.822 Security, scary. Security, bad. So you're working to not only understand the 00:39:48.822 --> 00:39:51.662 different lines of business that you haven't been exposed to before. 00:39:51.662 --> 00:39:54.762 You know some marketing and you know 00:39:54.762 --> 00:39:57.522 uh you know the things that folks don't think of 00:39:57.522 --> 00:40:00.402 the demand in tournaments all things you might hear about you know 00:40:00.402 --> 00:40:03.162 or no folks that participate again but now 00:40:03.162 --> 00:40:06.462 you're you're looking at from the business perspective and also 00:40:06.462 --> 00:40:12.002 the security lens like okay we have a event who's vetting all the folks you're 00:40:12.002 --> 00:40:15.782 going to participate who's vetting those influencers oh that's security now 00:40:15.782 --> 00:40:20.522 you know you have to go and say okay i found some bad stuff for a couple of 00:40:20.522 --> 00:40:23.362 your influencers that you want to use, are you okay with that? 00:40:23.462 --> 00:40:28.802 And I remember the first couple of months, the way we were presenting stuff was on the scary side. 00:40:28.942 --> 00:40:32.402 Like, oh my God, this is, you know, like the world's coming to an end, 00:40:32.542 --> 00:40:33.902 you know, if we use this person or whatever. 00:40:34.182 --> 00:40:39.282 And you really had to develop more soft skills of how to deliver that information 00:40:39.282 --> 00:40:41.402 in the same way that they consume it. 00:40:41.787 --> 00:40:45.587 And, you know, we take some of that stuff from the military and the intel field 00:40:45.587 --> 00:40:49.447 in general. It's all about, you know, your audience and how they consume information. 00:40:49.707 --> 00:40:53.847 Also, how do you digest it? And we had to realize that there was a separate 00:40:53.847 --> 00:40:56.307 world, two separate realms, you had the bridge. 00:40:56.487 --> 00:40:59.087 And your bubble, you know, you can work as you normally did. 00:40:59.307 --> 00:41:02.647 You know, talk about security the way you normally talk, talk about threats 00:41:02.647 --> 00:41:03.687 the way that you normally win. 00:41:03.687 --> 00:41:06.867 But then you had to essentially not dilute 00:41:06.867 --> 00:41:10.107 it but you know translate it to different audiences to 00:41:10.107 --> 00:41:13.447 look at the world through a different lens uh and you 00:41:13.447 --> 00:41:16.147 know you're looking at like oh i'm looking at from a happy side you know this 00:41:16.147 --> 00:41:21.147 is all great things and you're coming with normally some type of negative information 00:41:21.147 --> 00:41:24.847 that we might have never heard before you know they might not understand global 00:41:24.847 --> 00:41:29.867 issues they might make deals in places that and you're realizing you shouldn't 00:41:29.867 --> 00:41:30.907 do that That's problematic, 00:41:30.907 --> 00:41:33.207 but they're not going to have that same thing. 00:41:33.367 --> 00:41:38.107 So now you're talking about it in the form of risk versus the other side of it. 00:41:38.327 --> 00:41:39.767 So, and when you're going through 00:41:39.767 --> 00:41:43.567 a business like that, a lot of security success is based around money. 00:41:43.787 --> 00:41:48.727 While your value is really those lines of business, it's showing that you are 00:41:48.727 --> 00:41:51.687 providing value to what they're doing on a day to day. 00:41:52.067 --> 00:41:57.287 So we did a lot of work, a lot of lunch and learns with those groups to understand them. 00:41:57.487 --> 00:42:01.247 And then we invited them to understand us. So we kind of meet each other in 00:42:01.247 --> 00:42:03.247 the middle, but there's no playbook for that. 00:42:03.367 --> 00:42:07.647 You don't come in knowing that, that those are the challenges you start realizing 00:42:07.647 --> 00:42:11.107 those challenges as you're thinking about things that a professional student 00:42:11.107 --> 00:42:14.467 professional, like, Oh, of course we won't do that. Or of course that's an issue. 00:42:14.607 --> 00:42:17.787 Or of course you shouldn't have your event in this kind of location because 00:42:17.787 --> 00:42:18.727 what's going on around it. 00:42:19.187 --> 00:42:21.347 They're not going to see it the same way. It's like, Oh, you're just trying 00:42:21.347 --> 00:42:24.147 to stop us around an event. We're going to have this event no matter what. Like, okay. 00:42:24.836 --> 00:42:29.496 We want you to have a great event. Here's some things you should consider because 00:42:29.496 --> 00:42:31.176 these could be challenges for you. 00:42:31.676 --> 00:42:35.376 And crossing that bridge took probably, I think, the first year and a half, 00:42:35.536 --> 00:42:39.316 you know, because there's so many different lines of business that people don't 00:42:39.316 --> 00:42:41.476 see that's outside of the game that's on the field. 00:42:41.716 --> 00:42:46.596 You know, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the NFL, and it's not just the league at large. 00:42:46.736 --> 00:42:52.656 We're providing support to every team, every stadium who has,

00:42:52.736 --> 00:42:56.156 you know, sometimes shared security resources, sometimes different security resources. 00:42:56.496 --> 00:42:59.876 He has different ownership, provides support to ownership, provides support 00:42:59.876 --> 00:43:00.956 to directly the players. 00:43:01.456 --> 00:43:08.276 Again, an audience who doesn't necessarily look at the world through a threat lens or a security lens. 00:43:08.676 --> 00:43:12.256 And they're just thinking about from a day-to-day approach, and you have to 00:43:12.256 --> 00:43:17.096 go and learn how they look at the world and merge to that. 00:43:17.276 --> 00:43:20.636 And that was probably the biggest challenge, most helpful for me as a professional, 00:43:20.636 --> 00:43:24.916 because it really kind of shifted my own paradigm about the business. 00:43:25.176 --> 00:43:30.636 But it's a challenge to go from government speak and all the things that you 00:43:30.636 --> 00:43:34.756 sit in the room, everyone knows you're talking about, to suddenly you're this 00:43:34.756 --> 00:43:37.556 scary person who's in the corner. It's like, I don't want to talk to them. 00:43:38.416 --> 00:43:43.156 They're probably monitoring me right now. It was just a different lens. 00:43:43.396 --> 00:43:47.636 But again, I would say it was probably the best understanding of how private 00:43:47.636 --> 00:43:51.376 sector works and how the business of intelligence and security can, 00:43:52.005 --> 00:43:55.005 Even those kind of industries that are traditionally linked with that. 00:43:55.645 --> 00:43:58.085 You know, I'm really glad you brought that up because, you know, 00:43:58.085 --> 00:44:01.665 one of the things that we're learning in our company is how those different 00:44:01.665 --> 00:44:05.325 lenses apply between a government client or a corporate client. 00:44:05.605 --> 00:44:10.025 And, you know, when we were talking before and you talked about the responsibilities 00:44:10.025 --> 00:44:14.825 of the organization that you manage within the NFL, you brought up the fact 00:44:14.825 --> 00:44:19.025 already you had COVID to deal with. So there's a security concern that the entire 00:44:19.025 --> 00:44:20.505 world's trying to figure out how to deal with. 00:44:20.565 --> 00:44:24.365 And you're trying to put 100,000 people into one location at a time when that 00:44:24.365 --> 00:44:25.745 wasn't exactly copacetic. 00:44:26.105 --> 00:44:29.485 You know, you talked about, we talked about the fact that back in those days, 00:44:29.665 --> 00:44:34.425 the NFL was really starting to expand their footprint. So it's not just a sanctuary 00:44:34.425 --> 00:44:36.985 of the U.S. that you're playing games at, you're going overseas. 00:44:37.365 --> 00:44:41.105 Could you talk about some of those unique kind of security concerns and ones 00:44:41.105 --> 00:44:44.605 that I haven't mentioned that you first kind of saw through that lens of the NFL? 00:44:45.405 --> 00:44:51.685 Yes. So the COVID

timeline actually for us was the most impactful because it 00:44:51.685 --> 00:44:55.845 actually level set where we were at with the rest of the business. 00:44:56.425 --> 00:45:01.205 I would say before COVID, the rest of the business looked at the world outside the window. 00:45:01.365 --> 00:45:06.325 So even from the global impacts of politics and localized issues, 00:45:06.625 --> 00:45:08.345 all those things weren't even top of mind. 00:45:08.685 --> 00:45:12.285 And so when the pandemic hit, suddenly we were front center. 00:45:12.925 --> 00:45:17.485 So one of the things that was a takeaway from my time in Iraq was battle tracking. 00:45:17.965 --> 00:45:24.385 We used the same kind of methodology to track COVID across the United States and globally. 00:45:24.625 --> 00:45:28.825 And trust me, that was very hard because every state, county, 00:45:29.045 --> 00:45:30.785 city had different guidelines. 00:45:31.325 --> 00:45:34.245 Everyone had different ways. They were tracking things like hospitalization 00:45:34.245 --> 00:45:36.345 rates and rate of spread. 00:45:36.865 --> 00:45:40.305 Overseas was a whole different animal. We had officers that were there as well. 00:45:41.058 --> 00:45:43.978 You know, so, you know, we were really showing those global impacts. 00:45:44.138 --> 00:45:46.158 But at the same time, people wanted to plan for events. 00:45:46.658 --> 00:45:52.218 You know, we were the only group that still had a full season during that COVID year. 00:45:52.418 --> 00:45:56.058 And it's because our team was in the background monitoring all these things 00:45:56.058 --> 00:45:57.918 so our folks could safely travel. 00:45:58.258 --> 00:46:03.318 Around that same time, we had the protests that came and dropped the death of George Ford. 00:46:03.618 --> 00:46:07.618 So we have stadiums and facilities in every major U.S. city. 00:46:07.618 --> 00:46:11.598 You know, those protests were happening essentially almost every single U.S. 00:46:11.678 --> 00:46:13.838 City, you know, and at times around the globe. 00:46:14.098 --> 00:46:19.098 So now we are taking those same methodologies that we use to follow COVID to 00:46:19.098 --> 00:46:23.018 now follow the impacts of this, you know, across the nation. 00:46:23.018 --> 00:46:26.358 And we're having a team at a time, I think we're seven people, 00:46:26.738 --> 00:46:32.118 monitor all these things, develop daily reports that we're providing to my leadership 00:46:32.118 --> 00:46:33.838 and to all those stakeholders. 00:46:33.838 --> 00:46:36.798 But at one at the same time people really 00:46:36.798 --> 00:46:40.218 started to understand the value like oh okay this 00:46:40.218 --> 00:46:43.678 is i need to know what's actually going on around me so then 00:46:43.678 --> 00:46:46.878 we were able to actually build their first threat assessments you 00:46:46.878 --> 00:46:51.938 know for you know events you know so for draft for super bowl you know like 00:46:51.938 --> 00:46:56.478 what are some of the things that actually are impactful around you know events 00:46:56.478 --> 00:46:59.918 and stadiums or whatnot what are some things we have to understand so as the 00:46:59.918 --> 00:47:03.938 game got more global And folks wanted to do things like combines in Africa. 00:47:04.458 --> 00:47:09.798 Now we had a stage to actually educate the workforce on some of the issues and 00:47:09.798 --> 00:47:11.338 concerns that they need to worry about. 00:47:11.758 --> 00:47:14.458 And that changed the game for us. 00:47:14.538 --> 00:47:18.658 Like the COVID timeline, we were one of the few groups that really thrived on 00:47:18.658 --> 00:47:21.578 that because now the NFL saw the value. 00:47:21.778 --> 00:47:24.258 So you could think about a flutter of things that were going on. 00:47:24.398 --> 00:47:26.818 There were more online threats during COVID. 00:47:27.058 --> 00:47:32.138 That became more of a thing. There were more of these other dynamic situations 00:47:32.138 --> 00:47:35.758 that were happening among players and staff and everyone in between. 00:47:36.521 --> 00:47:41.081 And all of that changed the game. So when I think about my job now, 00:47:41.341 --> 00:47:44.601 a lot of my lessons learned come from that. 00:47:44.801 --> 00:47:50.141 You know, to include even bringing fans back to the stands because fans post-COVID, 00:47:50.441 --> 00:47:52.721 completely different than they were pre-COVID. 00:47:52.841 --> 00:47:56.281 We were seeing fights in like preseason games where we normally went to see 00:47:56.281 --> 00:47:59.421 those kind of bulbs until like the high pressure playoff games. 00:47:59.601 --> 00:48:02.861 And there was a lot more angst there. And we were following, 00:48:03.081 --> 00:48:08.241 like I was directly following other leagues to see how they were handling fans 00:48:08.241 --> 00:48:10.541 returning. And some of the stuff that was going on was wild. 00:48:10.821 --> 00:48:14.041 But that added to our skill set because then it was like, okay, 00:48:14.161 --> 00:48:15.841 these are additional things you can look for. 00:48:16.021 --> 00:48:20.461 And it gave us more of a platform to go to educate, you know, our stakeholders. 00:48:20.881 --> 00:48:24.241 And I would say other lines of business and external partners, 00:48:24.281 --> 00:48:27.481 you know, on the threats and the dynamic nature of that. 00:48:27.481 --> 00:48:32.081 And I think, you know, when it came to G-SOX and the capabilities, 00:48:32.341 --> 00:48:36.201 it really started to double underline why those things were essential. 00:48:36.501 --> 00:48:39.201 Rob, I grew up in Pennsylvania, so I'm allowed to make this comment. 00:48:39.401 --> 00:48:43.681 I think you exactly described the Philadelphia Eagle fans getting in fights 00:48:43.681 --> 00:48:46.461 all the time or, you know, celebrating through fights. 00:48:50.848 --> 00:48:54.328 But rob i might have seen that a couple times you 00:48:54.328

--> 00:48:57.368 probably did right i digress on that rob so 00:48:57.368 --> 00:49:00.208 you know you're ready built for the position that 00:49:00.208 --> 00:49:04.028 you currently have joe and i had the luxury to tour your facility hands 00:49:04.028 --> 00:49:09.428 down the most fantastic facility with all the capability that pretty much is 00:49:09.428 --> 00:49:13.208 a doomsday bunker that you're able to support through events that are happening 00:49:13.208 --> 00:49:17.848 rob if you don't mind can you share you know what is it you're doing at la metro 00:49:17.848 --> 00:49:22.748 and how are you preparing for large-scale events that are inbound to LA? 00:49:23.228 --> 00:49:26.948 No, well, thank you for that lead-in. So right now, my role as Deputy Chief, 00:49:27.088 --> 00:49:30.828 I have essentially all security operations underneath it. 00:49:30.948 --> 00:49:33.628 So that's everything from physical security, emergency management, 00:49:33.988 --> 00:49:38.248 our data analytics group, transit security, our officers out there in the field, 00:49:38.308 --> 00:49:41.668 and as you had mentioned, our emergency security operations center, 00:49:41.808 --> 00:49:44.368 which is more or less our hub for everything that we do. 00:49:45.088 --> 00:49:51.388 Within that space, it allows us a place to go to understand what's happening 00:49:51.388 --> 00:49:55.048 around us globally and really understand those impacts are locally. 00:49:55.308 --> 00:49:59.368 It also allows us to coordinate with all of our local municipality partners, 00:49:59.548 --> 00:50:01.908 so everyone else who does transit, all of our state, federal, 00:50:01.968 --> 00:50:04.068 and local partners, essentially serving as a fusion center. 00:50:04.328 --> 00:50:08.468 So we're taking a lot of lessons learned. We've had a lot of experiences over 00:50:08.468 --> 00:50:10.328 the past couple of years. 00:50:10.808 --> 00:50:13.728 Doctors, we've gone to the World Series twice. so we've dealt 00:50:13.728 --> 00:50:18.748 with World Series now my last Super Bowl was actually the LA Super Bowl so I 00:50:18.748 --> 00:50:22.488 know what that looks like but the difference for us now is that we have a new 00:50:22.488 --> 00:50:27.488 station at the LAX airport so now there's different lenses that you look at 00:50:27.488 --> 00:50:31.508 it events and event impacts are things that you can kind of. 00:50:32.434 --> 00:50:35.534 Like scope out you kind of understand what that looks like but 00:50:35.534 --> 00:50:38.414 for us we're taking a hard look at everything that we do 00:50:38.414 --> 00:50:41.294 a lot of us built on partnerships you know the esok 00:50:41.294 --> 00:50:44.334 allows us to really kind of drive those partnerships you know 00:50:44.334 --> 00:50:48.194 we are less than four months away from the fifa world cup and we really see 00:50:48.194 --> 00:50:53.074 this as a critical step for getting ready for the next super bowl which you 00:50:53.074 --> 00:50:56.074 know i have experience with that but it's gonna be different for us now and 00:50:56.074 --> 00:50:59.274 we'll have more folks on the system our transit was much bigger than it was 00:50:59.274 --> 00:51:03.034 in 2022 you know and then we We have the big dance, the Olympics. 00:51:03.374 --> 00:51:08.414 So we're really honing in our business processes inside of our ESOC. 00:51:08.594 --> 00:51:13.294 We're actually the only transit agency that has a unified command at a 24-7 00:51:13.294 --> 00:51:16.054 status without it being emerged. 00:51:16.454 --> 00:51:21.554 So inside of our ESOC, we have representatives from our law enforcement partners already. 00:51:21.774 --> 00:51:26.354 So we're working on building that situational awareness from all lenses, 00:51:26.554 --> 00:51:31.594 both from the transit and law enforcement lens. is growing those partnerships with our federal side. 00:51:32.399 --> 00:51:36.279 Our ESOP actually is where we do a lot of our planning for the events. 00:51:36.499 --> 00:51:40.459 So there's a lot of this constant meetings, constant collaboration, 00:51:40.819 --> 00:51:44.879 constantly working up your SOPs and processes with the hope that when the games 00:51:44.879 --> 00:51:47.439 come, we're already testing everything. We're already ready. 00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:51.219 So I think the military, your training as you fight, it's the same thing. 00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:55.839 We just did a couple of exercises with our federal partners just two days ago, 00:51:55.959 --> 00:52:00.079 walking through all the possible scenarios, usually like some of all fears, 00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:04.059 worst possible events, you know, but those test your SOPs. 00:52:04.259 --> 00:52:08.859 Do we have process in place? Are there things that we should be doing that we're not doing right now? 00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:13.479 All great discussions that allow us to fine-tune what we're doing so we're ready for game day. 00:52:14.459 --> 00:52:19.099 So I'm going to kind of go back to the conversation that Jeremy and I started 00:52:19.099 --> 00:52:21.319 with because, you know, you brought it up. 00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:25.899 You've got World Cup. You've got Super Bowls. You've got the next Olympics. 00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:29.439 And you said something, and I'm going to butcher it, so please correct me afterwards, 00:52:29.699 --> 00:52:32.679 but I remember when we were in LA together, you said that people don't realize 00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:38.759 that the Olympics is essentially like having something like 19 Super Bowls a day for two weeks. 00:52:38.879 --> 00:52:43.459 And that means tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people moving left 00:52:43.459 --> 00:52:47.019 and right to get through your systems that you're responsible for securing. 00:52:47.299 --> 00:52:50.179 On top of that, you've already said that in the last two Olympics, 00:52:50.179 --> 00:52:55.539 there have been sabotage

efforts on public trans systems, The rail system in 00:52:55.539 --> 00:52:57.239 Italy and then in the previous as well. 00:52:57.419 --> 00:53:02.499 So you're now having to operate with a heightened awareness of this now trend. 00:53:03.492 --> 00:53:06.352 Going back to that conversation that Jeremy and I started with about, 00:53:06.372 --> 00:53:11.012 you know, the concerns of, you know, counterintelligence and making sure that 00:53:11.012 --> 00:53:15.772 you maintain security, but also trying to preserve people's individual rights and privacy. 00:53:16.132 --> 00:53:19.672 How do you make that tough call to ensure that you're protecting the masses, 00:53:19.992 --> 00:53:21.472 but also protecting the individual? 00:53:22.632 --> 00:53:27.712 Amazing question. So when I first came to Metro, I actually worked to draft 00:53:27.712 --> 00:53:30.372 two of the most important policies that we have. 00:53:30.872 --> 00:53:33.812 We're the only transit agency that has a bias-free policing policy. 00:53:34.252 --> 00:53:38.212 We're one of the few that actually has a public safety data analytics policy. 00:53:38.472 --> 00:53:43.752 So any use of our data, any process we put in place would be assured that we're 00:53:43.752 --> 00:53:47.512 not being discriminatory, be assured that we're not targeting underserved communities, 00:53:47.892 --> 00:53:50.312 anything like that. So that's always up there at the top. 00:53:50.572 --> 00:53:54.372 We do a lot of engagements in community. I personally go and attend. 00:53:54.512 --> 00:53:58.512 We have a public safety advisory council that meets every month. 00:53:59.072 --> 00:54:02.792 So we talk through them and our representative community that are writers, 00:54:03.332 --> 00:54:06.692 and we talk through some of their concerns, whether we have initiatives, 00:54:06.972 --> 00:54:11.532 whether we have ideas or there's challenges that are out there that we need to address. 00:54:11.812 --> 00:54:15.872 That transparency and accountability allows us to go to explore. 00:54:16.555 --> 00:54:21.535 Or the larger things and get apparatus in place to be more effective. 00:54:21.775 --> 00:54:24.695 Like, for instance, we have a weapons detection technology that we're using 00:54:24.695 --> 00:54:25.675 right now as part of a pilot. 00:54:26.075 --> 00:54:28.815 The public knows about it. We've done it over the past year. 00:54:29.015 --> 00:54:33.455 We would be nowhere close to being in that space if we didn't have those relationships, 00:54:33.675 --> 00:54:37.575 have that level of accountability amongst ourselves and transparency with the public. 00:54:37.775 --> 00:54:42.755 I think the general public has an understanding of the larger universe that's going on, 00:54:42.835 --> 00:54:46.935 but they don't understand the counterterrorism challenges you know, 00:54:46.935 --> 00:54:49.835 possible account of intelligence issues that we have you know, 00:54:49.875 --> 00:54:55.135 the fact that any of the issues on the global scale are going to be in our backyard you know, 00:54:55.215 --> 00:54:58.155 so we've had to do a lot of research for the teams you know, 00:54:58.215 --> 00:55:00.915 whatever political issues are surrounding them you know, 00:55:01.015 --> 00:55:04.655 what are some things that could be challenges in our own backyard to impact 00:55:04.655 --> 00:55:09.335 all the riders not just going on our system but around our system you know, 00:55:09.355 --> 00:55:10.735 a bunch of fan fests that we're planning. 00:55:11.115 --> 00:55:15.035 Fan zones who folks who might not be able to make the game themselves still 00:55:15.035 --> 00:55:16.975 want to celebrate and be a part of the experience. 00:55:17.295 --> 00:55:23.235 So we have to look at so many different bubbles and lenses on a repeated basis 00:55:23.235 --> 00:55:27.935 with all those factors in mind, knowing that we can't be everywhere, 00:55:27.935 --> 00:55:31.115 but what are our most critical locations? 00:55:31.355 --> 00:55:35.395 Where will we have the most detrimental impact if something were to occur? 00:55:35.595 --> 00:55:39.655 Hopefully nothing ever occurs anywhere, but ensuring that we're really being 00:55:39.655 --> 00:55:44.035 thoughtful and mindful about every security deployment and resource that we're 00:55:44.035 --> 00:55:46.355 putting in place and leaning in our partnerships, 00:55:46.535 --> 00:55:49.135 knowing that, you know, we might be able to cover something, 00:55:49.295 --> 00:55:50.695 but maybe our law enforcement partners can. 00:55:50.995 --> 00:55:54.135 Maybe our federal partners can help support us in some ways. 00:55:54.355 --> 00:55:59.295 You know, it's an all-hands-on-deck approach, but it's essential for our success. 00:55:59.991 --> 00:56:03.151 You said something I want to echo as well, Rob. As states look up to set up 00:56:03.151 --> 00:56:06.331 their own counterintelligence program, what you're doing is just that. 00:56:06.551 --> 00:56:10.131 You're bringing in the resources from various departments, whether it's a police 00:56:10.131 --> 00:56:13.171 department, a city department, the federal level, the state level, 00:56:13.191 --> 00:56:17.631 and you're using all that knowledge to actually identify the threats moving out. I applaud that. 00:56:17.731 --> 00:56:20.591 I think that's the way that it should be done across the U.S. 00:56:20.671 --> 00:56:24.751 To ensure we're protecting events and people. All done, Rob. 00:56:25.451 --> 00:56:29.691 Looking back at your career, if I may real quick, what advice and recommendations 00:56:29.691 --> 00:56:31.391 do you have for our audience? 00:56:32.471 --> 00:56:37.651 One, find good mentors. You know, a big reason for my success was having great 00:56:37.651 --> 00:56:42.171 mentors who point me in the right direction, make sure I focus on the right fundamentals. 00:56:42.471 --> 00:56:46.011 It's very easy in this space to get wayward, you know, and, you

know, 00:56:46.011 --> 00:56:49.271 kind of go off in places that aren't really benefiting for you. 00:56:49.271 --> 00:56:54.531 I would say with that mentor really work on a career strategy map they'll kind 00:56:54.531 --> 00:56:58.811 of map out where you want to be and that allows you to think about trainings 00:56:58.811 --> 00:57:02.971 and schools or other things activities you could be doing your current job, 00:57:03.934 --> 00:57:07.114 that this really level you up as a professional and add more depth. 00:57:07.734 --> 00:57:11.414 And then lastly, I would say, you know, to stick with it. If you're really passionate 00:57:11.414 --> 00:57:13.194 about the business, like my business, I love. 00:57:13.354 --> 00:57:15.954 I can't think of anything else that I'd rather be doing. 00:57:16.354 --> 00:57:19.814 And, you know, because I love it that much, that allows me to have that commitment 00:57:19.814 --> 00:57:21.974 and really dig into any job that I do. 00:57:22.754 --> 00:57:26.534 Find that job that really hits your passion. And it might not be the one you're at. Hopefully it is. 00:57:26.774 --> 00:57:30.554 But if it's not, find your way towards what brings you the most joy, 00:57:30.754 --> 00:57:35.974 you know, and you will be really good at it. and always, always bet on yourself, 00:57:36.634 --> 00:57:37.994 because it starts with you. 00:57:38.874 --> 00:57:42.254 Hopefully other folks will join you along the way, but you've got to bet on 00:57:42.254 --> 00:57:43.574 yourself and believe what you're doing. 00:57:44.194 --> 00:57:46.874 And Rob, this has been a great conversation. I'm sure there's some folks that 00:57:46.874 --> 00:57:49.334 are going to have some additional questions that they want to reach out to you 00:57:49.334 --> 00:57:51.814 about. What's the best way that they can get a hold of you? 00:57:52.374 --> 00:57:56.954 I would definitely recommend LinkedIn. I think I'm one of very few gummers that 00:57:56.954 --> 00:57:59.874 are out there. I think if you find Robert Geller, I might be the only one on LinkedIn. 00:58:01.094 --> 00:58:04.934 So definitely hit me up on LinkedIn. I love to connect with folks, 00:58:05.494 --> 00:58:10.134 my mentor, a lot of people already, and then some of those have been established through LinkedIn. 00:58:10.434 --> 00:58:14.554 So always helping, well, always wanting to provide a helping hand to anyone that has, 00:58:15.574 --> 00:58:18.734 Rob, thank you so much for taking the time. We are coming up on time. 00:58:18.814 --> 00:58:19.694 And thank you for taking the time. 00:58:19.814 --> 00:58:23.494 Thank you for your service, not just with the military, but the follow-on with 00:58:23.494 --> 00:58:27.414 the FBI and then the follow-on to the NFL. You know, teaching, you've done it all. 00:58:27.654 --> 00:58:29.954 You've mastered all these professions. 00:58:30.294 --> 00:58:33.374 And now you leverage technology to ensure we're protected out there. 00:58:33.494 --> 00:58:37.234 And, you know, I know I can sleep safer at night when there are people doing 00:58:37.234 --> 00:58:39.774 what you do out there. And thank you again for taking the time. 00:58:40.414 --> 00:58:43.414 Well, thank you. Well, Joe, I think that's another episode, yeah? 00:58:44.194 --> 00:58:48.914 Yeah, you know, these are the kinds that I really enjoy because it's such a 00:58:48.914 --> 00:58:53.214 unique kind of path in order to get to the position that he's at now. 00:58:53.414 --> 00:58:57.434 And like you said, knowing that there's that pedigree of experiences informing 00:58:57.434 --> 00:59:01.414 the decisions that Rob's having to make day to day, it makes L.A. 00:59:01.474 --> 00:59:04.014 A much better place in my mind to travel through. 00:59:04.454 --> 00:59:06.714 Yeah, agreed. We just traveled there and checked it all out. 00:59:06.974 --> 00:59:09.254 Again, an amazing facility, an amazing experience. 00:59:09.734 --> 00:59:13.294 Well, to our audience out there, check out our YouTube channel. brand new. 00:59:13.494 --> 00:59:16.734 We've got a lot of videos. If you want to see our smiling faces other than hearing 00:59:16.734 --> 00:59:21.194 our voices talk, I think Joe told me earlier, I've got a face made for radio. 00:59:21.534 --> 00:59:22.574 So thanks for that, buddy. 00:59:22.974 --> 00:59:29.814 But also lastly, recognize, react, and report. Thanks for giving us a listen. And until next time. 00:59:30.734 --> 00:59:36.054 Thank you for listening to the Cypress podcast. We look forward to your comments and feedback. 00:59:36.794 --> 00:59:41.114 Please like and subscribe to this channel on your favorite podcast platform. 00:59:41.374 --> 00:59:45.134 We are on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. 00:59:45.434 --> 00:59:49.674 And as always, we love answering listeners' questions on the air. 00:59:49.714 --> 00:59:54.934 So, if you have a question, please reach out to us and we'll answer it the best 00:59:54.934 --> 00:59:58.134 we can and give you a shout-out during our next episode. 00:59:58.454 --> 01:00:04.674 Until next time, stay safe, secure, and report concerns to security professionals.