התמלול המלא של "How does love change us?" featuring Jude Hagene

warm up. ALright, that's okay. But I think it's a… no, you're fine. It's okay. But I heard the buzzer over here.  Audience Member (4:32): Yeah you did. Pumpkin.  Jude Hagene (4:34): Yeah, right! That is correct. Alright, next question. Yes. How is Sleeping Beauty awakened? Ok, we have a buzzer over here. Audience Memeber (4:50): By a kiss. Jude Hagene (4:54): A kiss. How is Cinderella saved from a life of scrubbing floors on her hands and knees? I’m sorry? Audience Member (5:05): By the prince. Jude Hagene (5:07) By the prince, yes. By marrying the prince, right? Yes. Marriage was the saving thing. Yep. Alright. And our third and last question. What was the Little Mermaid willing to give up in order to.. Audience Member (5:27): I am so on this buzzer. Jude Hagene (5:30): I think I gave the buzzer to the wrong person, so I don't have any idea who buzzed in first. So it doesn't matter, who wants to answer? Audience Member (5:48): Her entire childhood and life and her legs. Her entire existence, and her voice. Well, that's why I'm saying, and her voice. I think I covered it all I think. Her entire existence for this guy.  Jude Hagene (6:01): Yes. Yes, in a shorthand, her voice, willing to give up her voice. Oh my gosh. Oh good,, yes, thank you. Take those buzzers away. So, are you seeing any patterns here? What are these messages that we're getting from these fairy tales? Anybody want to say something? Jude Hagene (6:29): They're transactional. Transactional? Okay. Yes. What was that? We need to be rescued. Oh, and who's doing the rescuing? The men are doing the rescuing. Yes. Okay. I hope you heard that. This lovely woman is talking about the fairy godmother saving Cinderella from a life of drudgery. Jude Hagene (7:06): Any other messages across your mind? You are not good enough the way you are. Ah, yes. Okay. So not a lot of very good messages there. Yeah. Well, as you guys did a great job, you know a lot about fairytales. So as your reward, you are all being awarded your very own magic wand. So if you'll look inside your packet and bring out two things, please. Jude Hagene (7:46): It looks like a regular marker, but I swear it's magic. And also the blue piece of paper that has a gift box on it. Yes. And so what I would like you to do is first we're going to empower the magic marker, the little marker, and we're going to make it into a magic wand by thinking about someone in our lives that enriches our lives and brings us something special. Jude Hagene (8:21): So you can close your eyes if you like. It doesn't matter. But think about somebody that makes your life better. For example, I have a friend in my life who I love very much, and she brings me laughter. No matter what's going on, she can make me laugh. And so with my wand, I'm going to write in the box rather big, the word laughter. Jude Hagene (8:50): And I want you to watch this clip, because taking the cap off is the hardest part. You have to really pull it. And then if you write it really big in the box, then you'll be able to read it better later. I promise. When you're done, you put both things back in the envelope because we will need them again later. Jude Hagene (9:44): All right. So while I was growing up and I promise we're going to use those later, thank you so much for participating in the little game show and for participating in this. Jude Hagene (9:53): I think it's important for us to bring to our level of consciousness some of the subliminal messages that we've been exposed to with media over the years of our lives. And I also think it's important for us to acknowledge that the people in our lives bring us gifts and enrich our lives in so many different ways. So we will be coming back to those later, I promise.  Jude Hagene (10:20): While I was growing up, consuming a lot of fairytales, I was also consuming a lot of TV sitcoms, Another form of media, and one of my very favorites was Father Knows Best. Anybody watch that? Yeah, well, I can tell by some of the other faces in this audience that many of you were not even alive when this was showing. Jude Hagene (10:51): But that's okay because we have a clip. Clip (10:57): “I’m going to keep him, he's my very own bird.” “Oh, Kitten. If we keep Mr. Quigley, we'll have to put him in a cage.” “I know.” “Well, I suppose we could put the cage by the window where he could look through the bars. Maybe he could see the other birds free and hopping around. But I wonder if he'd be happy.  “Gee, I wonder.” “Kathy, remember yesterday when it rained all day and you wanted to go outside and play, but you couldn't leave the house? Remember how unhappy you were? Well, imagine Mr. Quigley being locked up like that all the rest of his life. Just like in prison.”  “Daddy?” “Yes, dear?” “Open the window.” Jude Hagene (11:46): Awww. This is what I thought a father's love was supposed to sound like. This is what I thought a father was supposed to do. Give wise words of wisdom. Help their children with problems, big or small. The only problem was my father didn't talk. Now he could talk. He could yell. We heard lots of words when my sister spilled the candy dish or my brother was late on his curfew. Jude Hagene (12:29): But every night at supper, that man was silent as a stone. Now, he didn't abuse us. He didn't have a problem with alcohol. He was there every night and he fixed our bicycles and other broken things. Today, I think that we would say that my father's love language was service, but I hadn't read that book when I was ten, so I did not feel the full force of my father's love for me until I was 18. Jude Hagene (13:06): I was home from college, staying in my old basement bedroom, and I had just come home from a date with my high school sweetheart. This was the guy I got on birth control for. Bob Pleasantberry. He was red haired, freckle faced, kind of a soccer bow legged kind of guy. His nickname was Keebler, if that gives you any indication. Jude Hagene (13:49): And I was 100%

sure that he was going to buy me a house in the suburbs. And we were going to raise redheaded babies together and live happily ever after. That night, he dumped me. I was inconsolable. I was in my basement room crying my eyes out and my sobs drifted up to my parent's bedroom through the vents. Jude Hagene (14:24): And I can only imagine my dad, Earl, nudging Marge and saying, “Go do something”. And my mother probably rolled over and said, “She'll figure it out”. But then my dad got up out of bed, walked all the way down to the basement, sat by my side, patted me awkwardly on the back because he’d never done it before, and gave me seven magic words. Jude Hagene (15:02): You got to kiss a lot of frogs. I had never felt so loved by my father in my life, and my father gave me a gift, a lesson that night about love. Love comes in many forms and you don't always recognize it when you see it. And as a bonus, I found out that my Prince Charming did not look like an elf. Jude Hagene (15:38): Now, many, many years after Bob Pleasantberry, I had moved to Las Cruces, New Mexico. I had married and divorced a different man, and I had come out as a lesbian. Oh wait, it turns out “Princess Charming” would be more my style. Yes. And I was a young, ambitious teacher. I had just graduated with a master's in educational administration. Jude Hagene (16:20): And I was going to save education one school at a time. I applied for a lot of jobs, and even though I was very young, I surprisingly out interviewed a lot of older people with more experience. And I landed what I thought was my dream job at Northeast Elementary School. 750 students, K through 8. I said goodbye to my then girlfriend without hesitation, I'm out of here.  Jude Hagene (16:53): I moved to one of the most conservative towns in the state, Farmington, New Mexico. Now all the advice was “Go slow. Don't try to change too many things all at once”. I tried. I really did. But when I got there, do you know, that they had separate playgrounds for the boys and the girls. Jude Hagene (17:24): And guess which playground had all the equipment? The girls had nothing. I couldn't stand it. So I made my big fiery speech to my staff about Brown vs. the Board of Education and how separate was not equal. And very soon after that, the rumors started. I hated Mormons. I worshiped Satan. I was a lesbian. Oh wait, they got that one right. Jude Hagene (18:06): Yeah. Now, this, I haven't told you the time period for this, but this was the mid ‘80’s, and this was before the Internet. It was before cell phones. It was before any easy way to connect with people that would help me. I was there all alone until I met, let's call her Beth. Oh my. Tall, dark, beautiful and ever so sexy in her police uniform. And boy, did I need saving. Jude Hagene (18:50): Yes. We fell in love head over heels. I let her move in immediately. You know, as lesbians, we kind of do that. The whole U-Haul… that joke, it's true. She was joyful. She was amazing. She was comforting. She listened. She supported me. And even though she was a police officer and she had to deal with some seedier sides of human nature, she was so positive. Jude Hagene (19:25): We called her Tigger because she had so much energy. She just bounced through life. We had this tiny bathroom and we painted a big rainbow on it. And then we bought towels of every different color. And we called it our coming out bathroom. Well, soon after, the human resource guy at my school district called me into the office and said, “You will not be a principal much longer if you don't kick her out”. Jude Hagene (20:01): Well, ha. Beth meant way more to me than a job. So Beth and I stood on a hill surrounded by trees, and we exchanged wedding rings. Now, of course, it wasn't legal then, but it was in our hearts. She meant more to me than any old job. Well, I got a new job on the Navajo reservation, and it meant driving back and forth about an hour each way. Jude Hagene (20:39): I was supposed to stay there, but that would be too much time away from Beth. So I just drove back and forth. I was putting my second principleship in jeopardy, but I didn't care. Beth was too important to me. And then one day, Beth and her police officer partner were called out on a 1057, which means shots fired. Jude Hagene (21:11): A man had barricaded himself in his house and was threatening to kill himself. Beth was the one chosen, just like on TV to leave her gun behind, walk into the house with her hands up to try to talk him out. She told me later that the gentleman sat at the kitchen table with his head in his hands, but his finger always on the trigger. Jude Hagene (21:44): And she sat with her back up against the stove, not daring to get too close. He was jumpy and unpredictable, and I'm sure she was patient and kind. Just when Beth thought that the man was going to give her his gun, he turned it on himself, and he fired. He missed his brain, but he got his face. And even though the man lived for a little while, Beth was devastated. Jude Hagene (22:26): Who wouldn't be? Her work leave ran out. She couldn't sleep. When she did, she had nightmares. She couldn't eat. She was losing weight. Her joy was gone. I did not know how to help the woman I loved. And then my mom got sick back here in St. Louis. So I flew back here and spent time with my dad and my brother and my two sisters, listening to the doctors tell us that there was yet another thing wrong with our mother, talking about procedures and percentages. The only thing that we could understand is that she was dying. Jude Hagene (23:32): My father and I took most of our meals in the hospital cafeteria. Remember him, Mr. Quiet Guy? Well, in the silences I would take my milk glass and I would try to make a perfect milk ring on the table. I know, I know. I was still harboring a belief in magic, but milk rings weren't enough to save my mother. Jude Hagene (24:06): And when I called, when I called Beth to tell

her, hoping that she could be there for me just when I needed her the most, the phone just rang and rang. The next day I received this call.  Recording (24:29): “Officer Wilcox tried to kill herself last night. She's in the hospital now after having her stomach pumped and being resuscitated. No, she is not accepting calls. An officer is going to your place of residence to collect all of the guns in the house. Ma'am. Can you tell us where they might be located?” Jude Hagene (24:53): So I buried my mother. I made a lot of casseroles for my father. I taught him how to use the washer and dryer because he didn't know. And then I flew back home to New Mexico. I took a bus from the airport. There was no one to call. And when I came home, when I opened the door, I found the bullet casings on the floor. And the hole, the bullet hole in the wall from that desperate night.  Jude Hagene (25:28): Beth had been transferred directly from the hospital to a treatment center. She had been diagnosed with PTSD, which at that time was a brand new designation in the health field. We didn't know anything about it, and I was not going to be able to see her for 30 days. Jude Hagene (25:55): The 30 days stretched to 45 and they were lonely. I found a community college job to keep me eating and I crossed off the days. Finally, it was time for family therapy. I drove hundreds of miles to sit knee to knee with her and apologize for things I did not know I had done wrong. And to accept apologies for things that did not matter. Jude Hagene (26:28): I wept buckets. Finally, I could take Beth home, but my tomboy dike was not the same. She wanted to wear dresses and try make up and find a church. She wasn't sure that she could love women anymore. She looked at me like she did not know me. I didn't know her either. I wanted my old Beth back. I wanted my mom back. Jude Hagene (27:09): But she was gone too. So I decided on the next best thing, that I would come back to Saint Louis and be with my sisters and my brother, who missed my mom as much as I did. I begged Beth to come with me, but I was secretly glad when she said no. I packed up my dog and my truck and I came back. Jude Hagene (27:37): I had left St. Louis, so long ago, married to a man and looking to be saved. And then I returned to St. Louis, divorced from a woman, and trying to figure out how to save myself. It took a really long time, years, really, to figure out the gifts that came from my relationship with Beth because it had been so painful. Jude Hagene (28:07): But I finally figured it out. And here's why. Sometimes even love is not enough. And the other lesson I took from my time there was this: I can't save other people, but I can and should save myself. Now, that was a very sad story. And sometimes when things are hard, we need to shine a little light and lean into each other to kind of be able to move forward. Jude Hagene (28:49): So remember those gifts that you wrote about? Let's get those back out and bring your magic wand to. And this time… Oh, some people have already figured it out. Yes, you can tell that there's a little button that you can push and shine a light on the gift that you wrote about to remind you that you get gifts from the people in your lives. Jude Hagene (29:21): And I'm inviting you now to turn to somebody near you and to tell them a little bit more about the person that inspired that gift. For example, I would tell you that my friend who makes me laugh also has a very deep intellectual side to her. And whenever we talk about deep things, she challenges me and she helps me grow. Jude Hagene (29:46): So please take a moment to talk and to hear about the people in our lives. Jude Hagene (30:16): Thank you so much for participating in that. I think it's really important that we remember the gifts that are in our lives and it helps us move forward in a better way. We have such a focus on romantic love in our culture. Oh, my goodness. Did you know that romance novels… it is the highest grossing fiction genre in the world. and love songs. It's estimated that more than 100 million love songs have been recorded since the sixties.  Jude Hagene (31:09): And don't get me started on movies. Okay. Take out the horror films and all the documentaries and, ok, even those action movies… there's always a subplot that has something to do with love. I mean, we can't get away from it. It's like the message that they're sending us is that we're not complete unless we have romantic love. Jude Hagene (31:37): And I think that's a shame because there's so many other relationships that we can have in our lives. Our parents, our children, our friends, our siblings. They can fill our hearts with love. Psychologists like to talk about love, not in terms of who we love, but in how we love. And they have this one category of love called ego love. Jude Hagene (32:10): And it's as bad as it sounds. Yeah. Ego love is based on, “Hey, I want you to be happy, but only if it involves being in a relationship with me”. Yeah, and we don't do this consciously, of course, but ego love usually has some strings, some expectations, some things that we want. It's a lot about the receiving as opposed to what psychologists like to call authentic love. Jude Hagene (32:46): You may have heard of it as unconditional love. And unconditional love is all about admiring someone and accepting them for who they are and not wanting to change them, not wanting to control them, but just being happy to add to their happiness. It's more about the giving than it is the receiving. Now, in my experience, I think parental love is a lot closer, or can be, to authentic love than, say, romantic love. Jude Hagene (33:29): And in my experience of parenting, it was a choice, and it was one of the best choices I've ever made. 33 years ago, I looked around and I said, “Oh my gosh, I have all this over-the-top capacity to love someone. I'm going to adopt a child.” Jude Hagene (33:54): And that was the

beginning of a whole stream of choices. Just the adoption form. Will you accept any age? Check. Any gender? Check. Any ethnicity? Check. Will you accept a child who is blind? Check. A child who is hearing impaired? Check. I was getting my first lesson in authentic love: acceptance. And I still remember the day I got to meet baby Sam when his foster mother put him in my arms. Jude Hagene (34:38): My heart grew three sizes that day, and I still, I know it's kind of goofy, but my arms still don't feel full without him in them. Now, as Sam grew, the lessons and acceptance just continued. Baby Sam did not like all of my favorite foods. Toddler Sam was scared to death of my family's long standing tradition of Santa Claus in the living room. Jude Hagene (35:16): And I, oh by the way, I am a extremely non-athletic person, and Sam is a very athletic person. And so I had to accept that I was going to watch hundreds, maybe thousands, of basketball and baseball games throughout his school career. And as an adult, I have to accept that he's not going to answer every text that I flood him with. Jude Hagene (35:48): But I just remembered something that I was going to say earlier. So I'm going to go back. Sam is biracial. He's half black and he's half white. And I wanted to be the best white mom of a black boy I could be. So I went out looking for information, and I found myself in an auditorium with an organization with a name that was confusing to me. Jude Hagene (36:21): And as I listened to them explaining how well, first of all, their mission was to stop transracial adoptions. And as they enumerated all the different ways that a black child would not be able to develop a healthy black identity being raised by a white person, I cried and I had to accept because I did not have the magic to make myself black. Jude Hagene (36:52): I had to accept that I could not be the most perfect mom for Sam. But boy, did I try. Jude Hagene (37:03): When it came time for Josh, the adoption was too risky. I didn't think a social worker would believe the lie I had told Sam's. No, I'm not a lesbian. No, because in that time gap, I had married another woman. So Josh would have a sperm donor, Dad. And this time, all of the choices were about the sperm donor. Hair color, brown. Eye color, brown. Skin color, brown. All to match his soon to be older brother. Jude Hagene (37:46): Now, when I gave birth to Josh at age 41… not recommended. Don’t do that. Oh my, it literally nearly killed me. But that emergency or excuse me, delivery room nurse, she almost got decked because Josh had just announced his grand entrance into the world with an ear splitting wail. And that bitch had the audacity to trash talk my newborn by saying she was glad she wasn't taking this one home. Jude Hagene (38:29): I know, right! You feel me? Yeah, my gosh. So I knew that my mother bear had been fully engaged. When Josh was four, he was accidentally burned quite severely on his face by a lot of hot, boiling water. And let me tell you, they were talking skin grafts. It was bad. And I am not the nurse type. Jude Hagene (39:05): And so when I had to change his dressing, I would lock eyes with him, talk craziness just to make him giggle, send him outside to play, and then go upstairs and just puke, just a little, and cry a lot. I had not been able to protect him from the burn, but I was going to do my best to protect him from the aftermath. Jude Hagene (39:34): When Josh was a teenager, he decided he wanted to protest the Jason Stockley verdict. Much to his dismay, I went with him. And much to his embarrassment, I shadowed him and I kept trying to keep my body in between his and anybody's bullets. I've had to accept that my mom magic is not going to protect my sons from the world. Jude Hagene (40:11): That doesn't keep me from trying. Becoming a mother was smartest choice I've ever made in love. Loving a child is so easy, you know? You accept them, you protect them with your life. Parental love is like this fire hose of love that focuses on the giving, not the receiving. My sons have taught me a wonderful lesson: Love is a choice. And it's one that we have the honor to make every single day. Jude Hagene (40:56): And another lesson: Love starts with acceptance. And it is so easy to accept my sons. Now, I think that friend love is another kind of authentic love. And I am so lucky that I have so many friends. So many of them are here tonight. Thank you so much. Now, it's not the quantity that matters. It's the depth of the connection that really fills my heart. Jude Hagene (41:36): I get to play pickleball a couple of times a week. Now remember me, the non sporty gal? I am… now don’t tell anybody, but I'm not there for the pickleball. I'm there for the connection. And every time somebody comes with a puzzle to pass it on or a Tupperware container to return, I'm reminded about how connected we are beyond the walls of the gym. Jude Hagene (42:07): And when we stop to sing Happy Birthday to someone I can hear the love we have for each other. And when we forget the score and we don't even know who served, I just love the messiness of it all and I am so happy to be a part of it. Outside the gym when I'm with friends who don't play pickleball, a lunch, a walk, a conversation, a connection, a vulnerability. Jude Hagene (42:39): Does your hair do that? God, I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I don't believe in God in the traditional way, but any time I connect with one of my friends or any other human being, I feel… I feel that there's something bigger than all of us. I feel that and it feels like a little bit of heaven on earth. Jude Hagene (43:08): My friends have taught me this lesson: Love grows if you nurture it. And inadvertently, my friends have also taught me to recognize that my capacity to love is deep and wide and there's really no good reason to try to hide it. So this is how love has changed me. I am no longer harboring any delusions of that fairytale

love, that media inspired dream of finding my one true love. Jude Hagene (43:52): I have all the love, all the connection that I need right here with my friends and my family. This is the magic that's worth believing in. Now I have a present for you. I'm so, so glad that the Olympics are over because I don't think you would have come out if they weren't. Now, when you get your present, don't open it yet. Jude Hagene (44:26): It's very important that you don't open it. So, yes, we'll give you a minute to get those out. I figured if you were going to come and listen to me for this long, you deserved a present. I'll pay you later. No opening yet. Me? Oh good, you guys are doing great. I don't see anybody peeking. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yes, you can, Shadow. That's fine, but not too hard. They're very delicate here. We need to get to our right. Okay. So I know you desperately want to see what's inside this box. Still do not open, but I'm going to show you. Jude Hagene (45:12): Oh no, I'm not. Not yet. That's okay. My guy is busy passing out presents. Okay, great. So, no, no peeking. But this… I know. Isn't that beautiful? Okay, You know, a little miniature Cinderella coach. You really can buy anything on Amazon. Oh no, but wait. This is so wrong. This is the antithesis of everything I've been trying to say tonight. Jude Hagene (46:01): No, no. I want to give you something more authentic. I mean, this thing isn't going to be worth anything after midnight, okay? We're going to have to give all the boxes back and then, that's going to take forever. Wait, I have an idea. Grab your magic wands. Turn on the light. Okay, great. Good. Isn't that lovely? Okay, now we're going to practice. Jude Hagene (46:38): We're going to do a spell, and we're going to change this into something more authentic. So this is just a practice, ready? We're going to take our magic wands, we're going to swish, flick, circle and tap. Alright. Okay. We're going practice one more time, and then we'll do it for real. You ready? Swish. Flick, Circle. Tap. Alright, now, this time we're going to do it for real. Jude Hagene (47:13): And when we hit our boxes, I'm going to say the magic word. We ready? Alright then. Swish. Flick, Circle. Tap. Look inside, see if it worked. Did it work? What’d you get? You got a pumpkin. Yes, oh that’s great it worked! I love it. Magic really does work. Alright, yes. I wanted you guys to have something that symbolized abundance and something that the seeds inside, they symbolize opportunity and the vines that connect pumpkins, they symbolize friendship and connection. Jude Hagene (48:30): That's what I really wanted to give you. Something much more authentic. So I leave you tonight, there it is. Oops, forgot about that one. See magic happening with or without me. It's great. So I have one last thing. I have a small challenge for you as you go about your lives and you're interacting with the people that have enriched your life and bring you joy. Jude Hagene (49:10): Take a minute to tell them. Tell them how they've impacted you and what gift they've given you. And when you do, be prepared for a little magic. Thank you.  Steven Harowitz (49:34): That is a wrap. Make sure you’re notified when our next episodes hit the airwaves by subscribing to the Campfire Storytelling Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And, if you liked what you heard, please leave a review. It helps others find our podcast and it really does support the storytellers. Hey, we’d love to have you come out to an event or take a class. Visit cmpfr.com.  Steven Harowitz (50:02): Our live events and these episodes are all ad and sponsor free. We can only do that because of the folks who take our public classes and the organizational clients we get to work with. If you or an organization that you work with are interested in learning storytelling, please reach out. Visit cmpfr.com for all the details. As always, a huge thank you to the Campfire team, everybody who attends our live events, and of course our storytellers. Thank you for listening to the Campfire Storytelling Podcast. I’ve been your host, Steven Harowitz. Until next time.