התמלול המלא של Not Your Granny’s Grammar: Bringing Joy Back to Writing and Grammar | Patty McGee

grammar, that through that over time, multiple entry points, we see that kind of growth happening. 00:05:37.459 --> 00:05:44.660 If we think of the like a painter's paintbrush, that is similar to what grammar is for a writer. 00:05:44.899 --> 00:05:57.379 And when you think about it, that painter really never stops experimenting and learning about different brush sizes and strokes and different ways of creating on the page. 00:05:57.620 --> 00:05:58.980 Same goes for grammar. 00:05:59.139 --> 00:06:09.780 It's not something that we're going to learn perfectly forever unless perhaps we're a copywriter and we have a set of rules that we're following from a certain organization. 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:12.500 But really, grammar is style. 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:15.300 Grammar is making meaning on the page. 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:21.459 And we use grammar differently depending on our audience, depending on what we're writing. 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:28.500 And so those are some big shifts in thinking, but also shifts in experience for students. 00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:29.699 That is very helpful. 00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:38.420 So what I did was I started to think what is missing from grammar instruction that other learning experiences include. 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:44.100 Oftentimes I think about what am I doing to learn something, but not in school? 00:06:44.259 --> 00:06:46.899 Like what are the natural things that I do as a learner? 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:52.660 One of the things I love to do is refinish furniture with chalk paint and waxes. 00:06:52.819 --> 00:07:10.420 And I started by just getting curious about these paints and these waxes and then reaching out to experts that have stores that teach this, or I would look at videos, I would look for feedback, like I did this little bit, what do you think? 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:16.740 And then I would experiment a lot before I actually put paint to furniture. 00:07:16.980 --> 00:07:20.339 And I often would pause and reflect like, how did that work? 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:22.740 What is it that I still want to learn? 00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:24.660 What is it that I know for sure? 00:07:24.819 --> 00:07:36.180 And yes, I memorize, I memorize different combinations of colors and ways of applying the waxes and all of that, but it's only one part of my learning process. 00:07:36.420 --> 00:07:48.339 So another shift for us as educators is thinking about how many entry points are we giving into grammatical concepts for students to grow that grammar know-how. 00:07:48.579 --> 00:07:53.620 And so one of those entry points is the 10-minute mini lesson, mighty. 00:07:53.780 --> 00:07:55.860 So simple, clear, and powerful. 00:07:56.100 --> 00:07:58.500 Those really give us a nice little entry point. 00:07:58.579 --> 00:08:01.139 You're coming in, you're coming out, you're making it fun. 00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:09.300 How can teachers use a short 10-minute grammar study routine to make grammar instruction both manageable and meaningful? 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:15.459 Well, first of all, we want this to happen in tiny snippets across time. 00:08:15.780 --> 00:08:24.579 So we call our approach grammar study because the same way I study these paints and waxes, I want the same entry points for students. 00:08:24.819 --> 00:08:32.500 And so we can have 10 minutes three to five times a week over, say, six weeks with a few related concepts. 00:08:32.659 --> 00:08:50.659 I recommend starting this approach, and it doesn't have to start at the beginning of the year, it can start whenever we choose, but we start with sentences, simple, compound, and complex sentences and compare them, learn how to build them, learn how to combine and expand. 00:08:50.899 --> 00:09:02.579 And through different experiences, one of them is the explicit mini lesson where I'll teach you how to and say turning two simple sentences into a compound sentence. 00:09:02.819 --> 00:09:05.779 But before that, kids are already getting curious. 00:09:05.939 --> 00:09:07.699 I give them, I identify. 00:09:07.859 --> 00:09:11.219 Here are simple sentences, here are compound sentences. 00:09:11.379 --> 00:09:14.500 What do you see are the same and different about them? 00:09:14.739 --> 00:09:23.219 I just did this yesterday in a classroom and I heard lots of different things, lots of theories, and what is the same, what's different. 00:09:23.459 --> 00:09:33.539 And some of them were spot on, some of them were gesturing toward it, some of them were way off, but that doesn't matter because that wasn't a mastery moment. 00:09:33.859 --> 00:09:40.979 That was piquing our curiosity, just the same way that many science teachers begin a unit with phenomena. 00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:48.659 So we look, we get curious, and then we're ready for that explicit teaching of okay, here's what makes a simple sentence. 00:09:48.819 --> 00:09:51.379 And you need two of them to make a compound sentence. 00:09:51.459 --> 00:09:52.579 And I'm going to show you how. 00:09:52.739 --> 00:09:54.819 After that, we have time to play. 00:09:54.979 --> 00:09:57.779 And this might be my favorite part of this approach. 00:09:57.939 --> 00:10:04.979 It's not games where there's a winner or loser, it's grammar manipulatives, like the same concept we use in math. 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:11.379 But this time we're using it in with grammar instruction where kids in partnerships play with certain concepts. 00:10:11.619 --> 00:10:14.979 The one that I taught with yesterday, I call Presto Chango. 00:10:15.219 --> 00:10:17.939 And that's where we started with simple sentences. 00:10:18.099 --> 00:10:23.059 And I gave students the fanboys or the coordinating conjunctions and a comma. 00:10:23.219 --> 00:10:30.099 And they had these sentence strips and they made multiple compound sentences using those manipulatives. 00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:32.739 So they weren't jumping right into their writing. 00:10:32.899 --> 00:10:34.899 There was that

scaffold there for them. 00:10:35.219 --> 00:10:38.500 Yeah, I used to love doing centers with grammar. 00:10:38.739 --> 00:10:42.659 They've really gotten wonderful in the self-correcting puzzle pieces. 00:10:42.819 --> 00:10:46.819 There's a lot of ways to get kids excited about playing with it. 00:10:47.059 --> 00:10:52.339 So the things that you're doing, I just am so excited about because I just love to see joy and grammar. 00:10:52.579 --> 00:10:54.500 For instance, an article on Taylor Swift. 00:10:54.659 --> 00:10:56.419 I love this article. 00:10:56.739 --> 00:10:56.979 Okay. 00:10:57.139 --> 00:11:00.979 And you were talking about her lyrics, a Swifty, or what did you call it? 00:11:01.059 --> 00:11:02.659 A Faye of Tay or something. 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:05.379 I think I had a bunch of different nicknames. 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:07.059 Yeah. 00:11:07.379 --> 00:11:15.059 So you were talking about lyrics and how they can help students think more deeply about characters and author's intent and even their own writing. 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:23.139 So, how can teachers use song lyrics like Taylor Swift's to help students analyze language and strengthen their understanding of grammar and craft? 00:11:23.379 --> 00:11:29.699 I really believe that one of the things that helps us learn grammar well is comparison. 00:11:30.019 --> 00:11:52.899 Taking song lyrics is like looking at poetry and thinking about the author's intent and their use of different types of elaboration, you know, the whole bucket of figurative language and how that can be pulled into our writing more conventionally and how they kind of complement each other. 00:11:53.219 --> 00:12:06.259 But I also like to take poems and add to them to see if we can turn the lyrics into full sentences that make sense and still have the integrity of the song. 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:10.179 So it's a little brain teaser, but students do it together. 00:12:10.339 --> 00:12:14.659 What they come up with is entirely different from each other, but really fun. 00:12:14.979 --> 00:12:18.579 Many teachers have students who avoid writing or they shut down completely. 00:12:18.739 --> 00:12:28.899 And so, what advice do you have for re-engaging struggling or dormant writings as you refer to them and help them rebuild their confidence, especially when grammar feels overwhelming? 00:12:29.139 --> 00:12:29.459 Yes. 00:12:29.619 --> 00:12:42.339 Well, first following the grammar study approach, the last part of grammar study is co-creating reference tools that when we're writing, we can refer back to. 00:12:42.579 --> 00:12:46.739 So let's say we have simple, compound, and complex sentences. 00:12:46.979 --> 00:13:04.819 We have the six weeks and we've been following along with those different entry points that I described, including reflection, because that helps us know what uh students are kind of clinging to, that they're understanding, and also what's still a little bit confusing or what they wonder

about, which are my favorites. 00:13:04.979 --> 00:13:07.219 And then we get to the point where we know enough. 00:13:07.459 --> 00:13:12.099 We're not going to know it all, but we know enough that we can co-create a tool. 00:13:12.259 --> 00:13:16.019 Maybe it's how to build those sentences or when to use them. 00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:18.659 The one I have in my book is a combination of both. 00:13:18.819 --> 00:13:22.979 And we use that to practice on writing that we've already written. 00:13:23.219 --> 00:13:27.619 Ideally, students would have some written from any subject area. 00:13:27.939 --> 00:13:38.739 And that little scaffold or stepping stone helps kids revise their writing intentionally, but it's also not the same pressure as starting from scratch. 00:13:38.899 --> 00:13:45.379 And so it helps with that application and it feels a little less daunting, a little less vulnerable. 00:13:45.699 --> 00:13:49.219 Can you give an example of that just to help me grasp it? 00:13:49.299 --> 00:13:49.619 Yeah. 00:13:49.939 --> 00:13:50.259 Yes. 00:13:50.579 --> 00:14:00.819 So a fourth grade classroom that was piloting this approach created a tool that said, okay, here's what a compound sentence looks like. 00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:06.019 Here are the times we might use a compound sentence, and here's how you can construct them. 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:15.539 And then students went back into their writers' notebooks and just found an entry that they had in there, and they used their tool and their writing. 00:14:15.619 --> 00:14:18.579 And some kids even put like a line down the center. 00:14:18.739 --> 00:14:30.899 This is what it said, this is what it says now, or like had a page spread in their notebook, where the entry was, and then how this entry's been revised using the considering compound sentences. 00:14:31.219 --> 00:14:31.539 Nice. 00:14:31.619 --> 00:14:37.459 So now do they come up with what tools they feel that they need, or is there some guidance in that? 00:14:37.699 --> 00:14:39.219 Yeah, there's definitely guidance. 00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:46.579 It's something co-created through a process sometimes called shared writing and sometimes called co-authoring. 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:48.099 And I like co-authoring. 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:53.939 It takes a couple of days to finalize the tool, and we can always revise it as the year goes on. 00:14:54.259 --> 00:15:06.179 But having something that we've all had a hand in and knowing it well and not just being handed to them like an editing checklist or something like that, not to say those aren't good. 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:12.019 It's just to say it may not remind kids how to use what we've learned. 00:15:12.259 --> 00:15:23.779 And so through the co-creation process as a class, in little snippets of time, then they have something that they can look to if it's up or pull out if it's nearby. 00:15:23.939 --> 00:15:35.139 And so that can really help with the grammar and writers who feel that

very, very real sense of vulnerability that everyone who writes feels. 00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:36.500 Everybody feels something. 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:37.139 Yes. 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:43.299 So, how can those methods be used in different content areas where grammar isn't the main focus of instruction? 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:52.419 Yeah, so very easily we can share these tools that have been co-created with other content areas. 00:15:52.659 --> 00:16:00.099 And I recommend to content area teachers not to worry about everything grammar, but to focus on one thing that's important to the content. 00:16:00.259 --> 00:16:12.259 And so let's say it's scientific writing and we want to make sure that complex sentences are used sparingly and compound sentences are used a little bit more often. 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:17.779 And then simple sentences are often the ones that we might find are the most useful. 00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:30.739 And of course, as kids grow, they know and start to learn about different ways of using simple sentences that have length to them that are not compound or complex sentences, but can be chock full of information. 00:16:30.979 --> 00:16:43.539 As a content area teacher, if I have this tool and I want to make sure that students are focusing on sentence construction for meaning, I can focus on one little part and put that in my expectations. 00:16:43.939 --> 00:16:44.899 That's a really good idea. 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:49.859 Do you see AI concerns with how kids are looking at grammar? 00:16:49.939 --> 00:16:51.219 Are you thinking about that? 00:16:51.459 --> 00:16:53.539 Yes, there's been a lot of ways. 00:16:53.619 --> 00:16:59.379 And at this current moment, AI does not capture our voices. 00:16:59.619 --> 00:17:01.059 No, at least 100%. 00:17:01.699 --> 00:17:15.059 You know, they try to sound like us, but really we're the deciders on what this grammar usage should look like because we have the audience in mind better than anything digital can. 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:21.700 And so knowing grammar well, we can become critiques of something that is created using AI. 00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:30.419 We can do a side-by-side comparison, we can draft something, give it to AI to look at, look at their suggestions, compare them to what we have. 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.379 And if we like them, we might take them and revise. 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:34.740 And if I don't, I don't. 00:17:34.899 --> 00:17:35.220 Yeah. 00:17:35.379 --> 00:17:40.899 And so it's just a quicker way for me to get feedback than asking a human. 00:17:41.139 --> 00:17:49.059 Well, and I think also as adults, we don't necessarily have someone that's uh giving us feedback, uh, you know, or that we can bounce ideas off of. 00:17:49.220 --> 00:17:56.339 So for listeners who want to know more about grammar study and your work, where can they find your resources and your book, not your granny's grammar? 00:17:56.579 --> 00:18:02.740 Well, a first stop would be my website, which is patty with a why,micgee.org. 00:18:02.899 --> 00:18:09.220 I always specify the why because there's Patty McGee with an I, who was a very famous skateboarder. 00:18:09.379 --> 00:18:09.539 Yes. 00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:11.700 So I thought it was me at first. 00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:14.259 I wish I had that kind of balance. 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:15.299 Yeah, no. 00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:17.539 So it's Patty with a why. 00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:21.940 And then there's a place to order the books on my books page. 00:18:22.099 --> 00:18:22.339 Okay. 00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:29.220 And if you use the code SAVE20, it'll go save 20% off and give you free shipping. 00:18:29.379 --> 00:18:31.700 And it's also on Amazon and Barnes and Obles. 00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:32.740 Wonderful. 00:18:32.899 --> 00:18:33.379 Wonderful. 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:38.659 Well, thank you so much for bringing such joy to grammar and writing instruction. 00:18:38.899 --> 00:18:40.259 Thank you for having me. 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:46.980 If you enjoyed this episode, share with a colleague who deserves a little more joy and less grammar policing moments in their day. 00:18:47.299 --> 00:19:00.419 If you have a story about what's working in your schools that you'd like to share, you can email me at Lisa at dr lisaarhassler.com or visit my website at www.drlisaarhassler.com and send me a message. 00:19:00.659 --> 00:19:03.460 If you like this podcast, subscribe and tell a friend. 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:06.259 The more people that know, the bigger impact it will have. 00:19:06.419 --> 00:19:13.539 And if you find value to the content in this podcast, consider becoming a supporter by clicking on the supporter link in the show notes. 00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:20.099 It is the mission of this podcast to shine light on the good in education so that it spreads, affecting positive change. 00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:24.980 So let's keep working together to find solutions that focus on our children's success.