התמלול המלא של Accepting Difference & Saving the World: Pixar Veteran Alan Barillaro on 'Bunns Rabbit 2'

will in the first book is really gonna have to be she's different and she has to kind of accept herself. That's really what it's about, is accepting difference. And that will, you know, and care in book two what will happen in in a general sense is you know, what do you do when you accept that difference in yourself and what kind of citizen of the world are you? The w what responsibilities you take, especially given her role in that mythology going forward. speaker-0: And when it comes to Bun's rabbit, the scope of her world is very small at the start of the first book, being a meadow rabbit living in burrows. Can you talk a little bit about creating this mythological world built around animals where we don't even know if humans exist in the world that we're we're exploring? speaker-1: Yeah, that's great question. I I love worlds that really focus on the character and you really fall in love with those those characters first and and so the world building kinda happens as it goes. As far as the meadow, you know, a lot of my ideas come from real life. I pull a lot of the creativity of, you know, hey, there's a rabbit in my backyard and what kind of adventure would that go on? And you go go on from from there as the world gets bigger for story reasons, but Yeah, I as far as my art my process, it's very much me being a kid and just and going, What if in this kind of a man I haven't changed much in my in my maturity as far as seeing that on an adventure. You know, when I saw a little sandpiper running off or waves in the film, I just thought that's the funniest character I've ever seen. That that character looks totally terrified from the water. And wouldn't that be a great thing to animate? And it's exactly what I did is started animating this little bird and it it started to turn into a story and it's a lot of part that's very much a part of my process to fall in love with a character, find them very endearing in Buns and and I thought what a wonderful like from a writer's standpoint of the themes I wanted to tackle, I thought this character with a great deal of empathy, that's a small little, you know, prey animal. you know, what if she could save the world? What if what if her empathy, what if her kindness, which is all described in a book, you know, in in ways I won't slow down this interview, but what if what if that's what's needed in a ma in a in a world right now of division? You know, I found that to be kind of the perfect hero for me. and that's where the story started to come out. speaker-0: And speaking of the perfect hero, it really does highlight that hero's journey, almost kind of like textbook that people learn about when they study story making. because of the way that Buns has a specific goal in mind when it comes to what she wants being different. She wants to she wants to feel less different. But she finds herself put into these fantastical situations. And as you said, what if she could save the world? Can you talk a little bit about Buns and her grappling with her initial goal of simply wanting to fix her ears to the greater goal that she finds herself in through the first book and going into the second book? speaker-1: Sure. Yeah. You know, a lot of this to me is is just placing some truth of how it feels in that moment and just trying to be as honest and in a sense vulnerable as a writer with yourself of how that would feel. so, you know, I don't know, my age and when I was when I was a kid and always I think it's very human to feel like you want to fit in. We all want to fit in. We're very social. and being different in her meadow, having sh a long eared meadow, you know. They're really scared and they're superstitious of difference. And for a lot of reason that gets explained. So Buns having these short ears, how attracting the spirit fox immediately, a th a god of fire. It adds so many questions. And the fear from that means she has to run away right away. But what she'll learn is that she's a part of that world more than she knows. She will eventually even have her own powers and be called upon to protect the world. And I I feel that's very akin to following along. how it is to grow up in life. You know, you're and if you notice there's something in the story that was important to me even with the mythology is it's a little bit untrusting narrating as far as like whose mythology you should believe. Each each parent, every everybody has their own belief systems, you know, what birds believe in, what why they're mad at at rabbits, why, why, why it's end ended up this way. And that to me is very much like the way I felt as a kid. You're unpacking things. You know, why is it this way? Why is it that? And you and you have to make these decisions yourself. And Buns will have to take on that challenge pretty rapidly. You know, it's always fun in a story and to turn the chapter and have it be like wha what just happened and that your character is having to pick up the pieces and say, you know, she just wants to live a quiet life, this poor bunny. Yeah. She's just destined for for something else. And the fox is the first one that That leads you to this. And that's that's kind of opens the door to that world in book two. But very quickly Buns called upon as as the character that's needed in this moment to save the day. And that's quite a daunting task. So if you like stories, you know, it's like I always love when like Batman got his powers or Spider Man, that that kind of origin story of gaining your powers. And just then what do you do with that power? What's the responsibility you have? I think Buns, that's all the things Buns will grapple with in book two. speaker-0: And Alan, you brought up the mythology and kind of how everyone has their own different take on the story. And that's something that I found so fascinating about Buns Rabbit, the book, is that the rabbits have their own version of the story, the birds have their own version of the story. Even Loon has his

own version of the how the mythology of the spirit fox came about. Can you talk a little bit about this idea of crafting these different perspectives? And maybe where the truth lies when it comes to getting all of these different stories from different groups. speaker-1: Yeah, you know, first off it's just really fun way to go through the world building to me and and l really lay down some you know, in book one, there's there's drawings that just pass by, a little, you know, comic book nature, and you might see that character and and they could be a very big part of book two. So I love this I think my picks are a background of Easter eggs and planning of like this will all pay off later is is one aspect of it. and I just think there's this I love the oral tradition of storytelling and sharing stories and how we all learn and and that tradition and how that's passed along. It felt really right to me for this type of story of how and how things get lost and reinterpreted. I find that really moving and emotional for for the story going forward. and and ha we learn from storytelling, you know, it's a big part of our culture. So you know, there's that that aspect too. And I I love a big world so that gets revealed. It was a big part of the story. So there's another reason that it's a it's a device that allows me to to cover a lot of ground and and and imagine, you know, like reading Lord of the Rings when I was a kid. You just you just im you you fe every time you get introduced to something new, you you n you want to almost live in that chapter and that setting and go, what else happened there? And what's their mythology? So I I I find that to be really fun in stories. speaker-0: Now, Alan, one aspect that I would be very remiss not to bring up is that Buns Rabbit throughout has absolutely gorgeous full color illustrations. And I know that your background as an animator, you did the pen work for the pictures and they were later digitally rendered with color. Can you talk a little bit about putting this story to paper? What it was like kind of drafting the story over the years that you've had this kind of kicking around in your brain? speaker-1: Yeah, no, that's a big aspect of the book. it it almost really is the core reason why I started this story is to say that you know, my own kids having three kids when they were younger at that age, I s I feel like there's different readers. So as a parent, I w and I remember this as a as a kid to back up, where going from picture books to novels was a jump. and literacy of like wow and I really love graphic novels and I still love graphic novels and comics, but could there be a book that covered more prose for kids that that made it a little less daunting? So I had this idea pretty early on that this book would be something that was a hybrid between a graphic novel and and a chapter book. And heavily, heavily illustrated, which kind of breaks hopefully the mold of some of the structures so that If you're if you're a little uncomfortable to pick up that big, you know, thirty thousand word book, this book had a lot of pictures of Pole Yo Long. So it was there's that aspect and there's also the aspect as a parent where I love bedtime story reading. It's a big part of literacy to me. If we're a whole family's reading, it it becomes our routine. So having a book, you know, I always try to create stuff that I feel I'm missing on my shelves or myself, like very selfishly, and movies that I want to see. It's that that's what drives me and you hope that that resonates with others. So this is a book I wanted to have for my kids that are different readers, different ages, and say, you know, the young ones might pull on for the cute rabbit aspect. The older ones might, you know, love the amount of prose and drama and and and the times action and danger. That there's that that to me was a big part of even the pitch for this book and Candlewood was so fantastic of supporting because it's a big undertaking for all of us. So process wise it meant very much bringing my film background into the in the world of literature, which is to say I don't final the writing and then say, let's draw some pictures. It's like a movie. You put everything in edit and you change whatever you need to change. The manuscript's up for grabs, the images are up for grabs. You tell the best story you possibly can and I I hope that pays off for readers, that they feel that that, you know moving between graphic novel, comic pages, back to to to words and lots of illustrations, is definitely we could see more of and and on shelves. speaker-0: And now you did bring up very briefly sort of this idea of pitching the book, and it was a big undertaking. And I do love going into some of the more business side of things of the industry of publishing, because there's a lot of aspiring writers who could be listening out there. And so I'm curious to hear what your perspective is as someone who worked in animation for many years, what it was like, and kind of what your process was bringing the book to publishers, getting it published. And maybe even what the editorial process was like, as I know that that greatly differs from making a short film or making animation. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. It there's it's wonderful to move mediums as an artist, right? You're constantly feeling like you're y when it gets narrowing for me and it feels like this is all you can do, I immediately wanna break out. You know, there's artists have like to, you know, paint and draw and sculpt and write. There's no boundaries in our minds, but sometimes there is on the on the practical job side and how do we manage that as a part of this? and how do I manage telling my own stories, and illustrating? I I you know, to talk about it would be I feel like you have to first write the story that is the best story that you wanna read. You know, if you if I have to be in the headspace that I'm telling something that I'm interested in, I'm

working on and it's keeping my interest. I'm not trying to sell anybody on that interest. If I've worked on something for years, hopefully I'm I've been my I'm watching my level, like half of my brain in movies is that you're half audience and you're half the artist and it's the same. You know, you're a reader and you're also the writer and you have to kind of judge yourself and say, where's this chapter going? This is this is this is boring. I'd put this down. So I put a lot of work into that. On the business end of pitching it, I I think putting, you know, putting out the best version of your story and going all the way is the way I do it. I I pitched a five hundred and fifty page fully color book and we threw a lot out and that's okay by me. And I think because of my background, I'm used to throwing stuff out. And animation. that's part of the game. you work a lot, do a lot of drawings and then you toss it. So I brought that as a strength and not a weakness to the process where it says I don't take that as failure. I take that as that's how you find it to the best story. So whereas I think that can that not to go on too long about it, but I think that's a big difference for many artists that are extremely talented is just having just finishing that idea and getting it out there, not not feeling 'cause it could it could it could be disappointing. So you have to go, hey, like you you'll don't self judge your work for that's part of that's part of the r the the process is is redoing. So I'd shut myself up knowing I'm going to redo this many, many times. It's a lot easier to take notes and editorial notes. just stay focused on the best story you can tell and know that it's a group project that, you know There's others. It's not a it film has taught me that the collective film is always a million times better than the film I had in my head. Always. Always, always, always. If you let people in to help. And that's how I treat the editorial process. These people I'm working with are brilliant. And they're gonna bring something that I can't even see because I'm getting blind to it, staring at this chapter. And then they give you this one perfect note and it really makes the story sing. So the community is a big part of You know, show show your work, and and go from there. speaker-0: There really is something amazing to just being able to step back, let someone else have a pass at something, and also just the importance of letting go of a project. When it came to the editorial process, you came in very willing to collaborate and very comfortable with making changes and making cuts. Were there were there any things or any moments that you were surprised that you got very little or no pushback on? speaker-1: Yeah, you know, it's always interesting because when we talk about that editorial process, right, a lot of times when I was early on as an animator, 'cause you go in and you show your animation and you get a note that day, every day. And you sometimes

can chase notes because you're reacting to you're trying to do exactly what they say. And as you get older you start and more experienced, I should say, you you start to go, you start to tune in to just the reaction. What if it was a bump for them? How hard did it bump? why I meant to take them the the the person who's reading it doesn't know we are what we were trying to say sometimes. So you don't really take that note. You take the note you kind of take the bump if that makes sense. That's where everybody trips up. I what I was saying wasn't clear or what I was after. So sometimes, you know, following the note alone is always a big problematic. So sometimes if to answer a question, like if there wasn't a note, it was surprising, Some of that was wow, that that that that was really landing some maybe landing harder than I thought, just as far as tempo and emotion. And I have to give it more space now and it makes changes down the way. because it's all this it's it all has a rhythm and a song. Like when I think of a book or or film, there's a tempo and a pace to this. so it's you're always thinking of the whole song, going, Okay, the chorus might be working, but the verses are just a bit of a mess. So you know, Buns has the chapter lengths are exactly, you know, t to me, paced so that as a parent when I'm reading that I can end the night and not go, you're crushing me, author giving me five more I thought we were done here and I have to wrap up you know, wrap up. You know, there's a pace you have to become accustomed to. that I I always appreciate in books. that if that's a good answer at all. speaker-0: It is. And I and I did want to also, as we kind of reach the tail end here, get into the second book that's coming out, Buns Two, Return of the Spirit Rabbit. Can you talk a little bit about for people who may be interested in checking out the second one or who may have already read the first one, where we are in the story and what Buns can look forward to in this next entry? speaker-1: Sure. where we are is Bruns, you know, finally wants to just have nothing else but live in her burrow and be with her family. And very quickly the fox calls her back for a a much more difficult problem which is which involves all the un elemental spirits and involves her and that she's been the rabbit everybody's been waiting for and has to immediately drop everything and and head out into the deep ocean to meet these other elemental spirits, which is extremely daunting and extremely dangerous. So Bonz is thrown into this new world and and has to play catch up very quickly in order to protect the fox, to protect your family, actually to protect the everyone on land, before it's washed into the sea. So I've I've a lot of the groundwork of Buns one, I'm really hope I'm really excited for readers who've read book one to see what they think of book two. And if that if you know all this has paid off for where what Hu Buns, you know, really learning who she really is and what she can do and how she can help the world. So I'm I'm super excited to get the response. It's one of those strange things when you work on films you get to immediately go to the theater. Whether you like it or not, you hear everybody's reactions instantly. You know, they they get up and they you they go for a drink and they check their phones or they or they laugh when you know, when you you hope the joke landed. With as an author you have to kinda quietly hold hold back and but I'm I'm yeah, I'm really I'm really thrilled. it to me it's like book one is the Hobbit where you begin the story and it's a quiet and it's really I love that book. And then there's Lord of the Rings where all this pain and this is the action. So this is the big action elemental spirit world that I've been the story I've been dying to tell for quite a while. speaker-0: And not to kind of chase down another tangent here, I am curious. When it comes to having audience feedback in film or animation, have you seen have you seen reviews, people on social media, or even talked with people who have picked up the book and gotten any responses on the first one? speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, I was just at a book event this weekend. and it was really wonderful. I had the 'cause I had a copy, an advanced copy of Bonds Two and and they came up to me to talk about Bonds One and which is so sweet. and say how excited they were for book two. So that was really thrilling. And then I shared with them book two as a sneak peek with the advanced copy and that was super cool. It's great to say here's the only copy that I have. out in the world right now do you wanna flip through it and to see it through their eyes, that's when the film or the book becomes it's n it's strange maybe to say, but it's it's not your own anymore. It's a part of something else and it be had it takes its own life. Like it it it lives its own life, it becomes its own thing and you just kinda watch it happen. You don't you don't this is kind of really cool part of of making artwork. It it you're not sure you you put out your attention, but you don't really know how that's gonna land and I always love work that has a certain amount of interpretation to it 'cause what you can never do is everyone will bring their own story to those stories. And to me that's really special. It becomes uniquely theirs in a sense. And to see that happen is is a real gift that I don't take for granted. It's wonderful. speaker-0: Now, Alan, I like to end each interview by asking the same question to each guest. Okay. And I'm excited to get a little bit of a different perspective as I have not had someone who's worked in animation that has published published bo a book on the podcast. And it's a more open ended, introspective question. And you can use this to also get your last words in if you'd like. And that question is, Alan, how do you see yourself and the work that you do as a writer or as an artist? speaker-1: How do I see myself? Whew. I don't know if I've asked myself this question. This is a really interesting one. I as an artist, you're it's it's it's funny. I n I've I've focused so much on communicating your idea as an artist, right? You're trying to share something with people. There's like that's a real gift to me, this can this kind of connection. So I I I always love that feeling, whether it's movies or or of storytelling that it connects you with that other person. It's this form of communication. You have this blank piece of paper and there's nothing there. And then whatever you put down on paper is a choice in a in a conversation with someone. So that I guess that's how I I see it, if that's if that's a good enough answer that I I really enjoy those conversations with people. And to see their reaction to working and back and forth, it's like Just a a way of of w a la way of language, I guess, of communication that I find really really magical. speaker-0: Thank you. That was an interview with Alan Berilaro. His newest book, Bun's Rabbit, The Return of the Spirit Rabbit, is available now. You can learn more about Alan and his work at Allenberilaro dot com. If you appreciate the work being done on this show, there are a number of ways to show your support. First, you can like, comment, or follow wherever you are currently listening to help push the show out to new listeners. Second, you can follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and Blue Sky at BookFairPod. Lastly, you can follow the show on Patreon at patreon.com/slash the BookFair. Following is free and there are no posts hidden behind a paywall. Of course, the best way to help the BookFair Podcast grow is simply to share it with a friend, an educator, or a young reader in your life. Thank you so very much for listening, and as always, I'll talk at you next time.