התמלול המלא של Supporting Teamwork

00:04:30,540 answer our survey, and realized that a lot of people don't know how to run team 71 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:34,640 projects well, but to keep the books inexpensive, we self published them on 72 00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:42,120 Amazon, and then we learned that marketing is hard, very hard, and so we decided 73 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,369 to move the book over to a publisher. 74 00:04:45,380 --> 00:04:46,700 And we got picked up. 75 00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:49,280 We chose Rutledge Taylor and Francis publisher. 76 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:52,250 Both of us had past experience with them with other books, and so it was a 77 00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:56,460 real good synergy, and it’s been a great working relationship with them as well. 78 00:04:56,590 --> 00:05:00,770 So we moved it over to a book with a publisher to help make 79 00:05:00,770 --> 00:05:02,189 the marketing better, really. 80 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:07,900 Right, and the big difference too is that we had a separate book for students, 81 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,420 and Routledge wanted us to combine them. 82 00:05:11,460 --> 00:05:16,570 So in this new book, they are both together, the faculty version 83 00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:18,250 as well as the student handouts. 84 00:05:18,889 --> 00:05:19,499 That's great. 85 00:05:20,190 --> 00:05:23,470 As you alluded to earlier, one of the NACE competencies is the 86 00:05:23,470 --> 00:05:25,060 development of skills in teamwork. 87 00:05:25,590 --> 00:05:29,340 But have many faculty received training in how to effectively assist students 88 00:05:29,340 --> 00:05:31,590 in developing the skills necessary? 89 00:05:31,980 --> 00:05:36,690 Well, we didn't ask that question specifically in the survey, but 90 00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:40,710 we assume that not very many have received formal training. 91 00:05:41,129 --> 00:05:46,520 For example, there are a lot of schools, especially graduate programs, in medical 92 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,030 education that uses team-based learning. 93 00:05:50,090 --> 00:05:55,340 Which is a very structured way to use teams in the classroom, and people learn 94 00:05:55,349 --> 00:06:00,910 how to set up teams there and how to do the TBL process, but they don't get a 95 00:06:00,910 --> 00:06:04,750 lot of those group dynamic things that we like to talk about, like, what do 96 00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:07,440 you do when the team is in conflict? 97 00:06:07,610 --> 00:06:11,890 Or how do you have a team work most effectively if you're teaching 98 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,090 an asynchronous online class? 99 00:06:14,410 --> 00:06:17,620 Those sorts of things that we realized are gaps. 100 00:06:17,709 --> 00:06:22,950 But we also found that there are still many, many faculty who are just lecturing, 101 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:27,010 and they tell us, “Well, that's the way I like to teach,” you know, that 102 00:06:27,010 --> 00:06:29,170 old sage on the stage sort of thing. 103 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:34,300 And so, we feel that there's such a need out there, and that's a lot of what 104 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:35,899 we're trying to do is get the word out. 105 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:40,840 Yeah, what we found in that survey is that there is a sizable, I'm not going to say 106 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:46,270 majority, but a sizable number of faculty who are actually resistant to doing group 107 00:06:46,270 --> 00:06:50,710 work or teamwork in the classroom because they say it's too hard and doesn't work. 108 00:06:50,719 --> 00:06:54,859 But honestly, our interpretation is that they're not doing it well enough 109 00:06:54,859 --> 00:07:01,080 yet, that if they made some very slight changes to what they do, they could 110 00:07:01,180 --> 00:07:05,510 pretty easily improve their group work, their teamwork in their classes. 111 00:07:05,590 --> 00:07:11,040 And as you said, the NACE survey and also recent surveys by AAC&U, they 112 00:07:11,070 --> 00:07:15,700 also put teamwork as the number one or number two things that employers want. 113 00:07:15,710 --> 00:07:20,180 So as faculty members, we think it's really important to help prepare our 114 00:07:20,180 --> 00:07:24,440 students to be better team members, and so that's what we want out of this work. 115 00:07:24,450 --> 00:07:28,059 So one of the reasons we tried to make the book inexpensive was because 116 00:07:28,059 --> 00:07:31,710 we wanted students and faculty to be able to use it very easily. 117 00:07:32,330 --> 00:07:33,810 So who is the target audience? 118 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:38,320 Is it designed just for faculty, or is it for faculty and students as well? 119 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,590 Or are the handouts just a supplement for faculty to use with students? 120 00:07:43,190 --> 00:07:47,240 Well, the book is designed for college professors, and we want to point 121 00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:51,140 out it's at every level, from, you know, entering community college, 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,539 all the way through professional and doctoral programs, anyone can use the 123 00:07:56,540 --> 00:08:01,510 information in the book, the student handouts, you wouldn't probably ask 124 00:08:01,570 --> 00:08:03,780 the students to buy a copy of the book. 125 00:08:03,929 --> 00:08:09,030 The student handouts are available for the faculty to use to supplement what they're 126 00:08:09,030 --> 00:08:11,110 doing, and we have those available. 127 00:08:11,110 --> 00:08:15,000 We share those with people in a format where they can make copies and that 128 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,199 sort of thing, if they want to do that. 129 00:08:17,230 --> 00:08:21,930 But the target audience is, for the most part, college professors, although I 130 00:08:21,940 --> 00:08:26,830 have to say we did a whole series about what works best in teams with young 131 00:08:26,830 --> 00:08:31,719 professionals, former students of ours who were working, and it was a great 132 00:08:31,730 --> 00:08:36,139 series

because they showed that the concepts that we talk about, yeah, in 133 00:08:36,139 --> 00:08:41,469 academia, but there are people who are working professionally who need those 134 00:08:41,529 --> 00:08:46,060 tips as well, especially if they haven't had any formal training in how to direct 135 00:08:46,060 --> 00:08:48,579 a team or how to manage co workers. 136 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:52,015 There are a lot of assumptions, that we're maybe just born with the ability 137 00:08:52,015 --> 00:08:56,110 to work in teams, or that you walk into a classroom and have those skill 138 00:08:56,110 --> 00:08:59,879 sets, and most of the time, people have never been trained in any kind 139 00:08:59,879 --> 00:09:01,260 of way about how to work in a group. 140 00:09:01,569 --> 00:09:02,089 Exactly. 141 00:09:02,180 --> 00:09:06,280 Throughout your book, you rely on a systems input-process-output model. 142 00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:09,110 Can you provide our listeners with an overview of this model? 143 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:15,650 So the input-process-output model comes from really engineering and 144 00:09:15,770 --> 00:09:20,470 other types of areas like that, where you bring inputs in, you process the 145 00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:22,290 data, you have outputs that come out. 146 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:26,380 And it was applied years ago by Steiner and many others in 147 00:09:26,389 --> 00:09:27,650 the group dynamics literature. 148 00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:29,380 So it's actually not a new model. 149 00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:33,050 It's one that's in the small-group communication and small-group decision 150 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:36,650 making, small-groups literature, and it says that there are things 151 00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:41,380 that people bring, the inputs to a group, and then there's the stuff 152 00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:46,239 that happens in the group, and then there's what the group gets out of it. 153 00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:49,910 And so the inputs are things like the contexts that people are embedded 154 00:09:49,910 --> 00:09:55,350 in, the skills that the team members have, or the task that they're working 155 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,520 on, which turns out to be really important, and the processes are what 156 00:10:00,530 --> 00:10:02,120 happens when they're working together. 157 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,450 So this is the good and the bad. 158 00:10:03,719 --> 00:10:07,570 It's the conflict that happens, that people run into. 159 00:10:07,570 --> 00:10:11,910 It's the decision making processes, but it's also where somebody says 160 00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:15,420 something and somebody else has another idea, and you get some synergies. 161 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,080 So, it's all the things that happen when they're working together. 162 00:10:18,330 --> 00:10:22,520 Now, in the outputs, as professors, what we're often concerned about 163 00:10:22,750 --> 00:10:24,829 is the task-related outputs. 164 00:10:25,299 --> 00:10:26,590 What can we give them a grade on? 165 00:10:26,849 --> 00:10:31,140 What is the objective thing that they're working on, but there's also a 166 00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:33,310 lot of social outputs that people get. 167 00:10:33,310 --> 00:10:38,540 I mean, we're social animals by nature, and people get a lot of social outputs. 168 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Get to know people. 169 00:10:40,130 --> 00:10:43,949 In fact, I always like to say, at my nephew's wedding, my 170 00:10:44,049 --> 00:10:49,220 nephew and his wife met at Keuka college during a team project. 171 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,400 That was their initial meeting. 172 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:53,540 And I say, well, sometimes you might even get married after your 173 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:55,360 team project and have two kids. 174 00:10:55,690 --> 00:10:57,310 There are other things that people get. 175 00:10:57,429 --> 00:11:00,069 That's the input-process-output model. 176 00:11:00,179 --> 00:11:05,199 And in the book, we literally walk through each part of the input, each part of the 177 00:11:05,199 --> 00:11:10,670 process, each part of the output, so that people can see where to improve their 178 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,300 teams, both faculty members and students. 179 00:11:13,790 --> 00:11:18,709 And this was also the structure of the way that we taught our group dynamics class. 180 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,670 So one thing we acknowledge is we had the luxury of teaching a whole class 181 00:11:22,990 --> 00:11:25,130 in how to make teams work better. 182 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,980 And so a lot of times we know that faculty have so much content to cover that they 183 00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:35,690 can't do a whole week talking about leadership in teams, so that's one of the 184 00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:37,480 things that we're trying to help them do. 185 00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:41,830 But we taught this way, and I was going through some old notes from 186 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,040 my PhD dissertation back at the University of Pittsburgh, and I 187 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,630 actually found a model that looked quite similar to the input-output model 188 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:52,900 based on small group communication. 189 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:55,610 So it's something that's been with us for a long time. 190 00:11:55,750 --> 00:12:00,660 We feel it gives people the idea of how to organize their thinking about 191 00:12:00,790 --> 00:12:03,119 teams and how to make them work better. 192 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:07,080 Throughout the book, in each of your chapters, you have a common structure. 193 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:11,430 Could you give our listeners an overview of what that structure looks like? 194 00:12:11,860 --> 00:12:13,900 I'll start this because I like to tell a story. 195 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:19,790 And speaking of stories… when we wrote the self published version, we had 196 00:12:19,820 --> 00:12:25,610 every story in every chapter begin with somebody by the

name of Fred and Lauren 197 00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:29,930 and I, you'll see us laughing when we use that word, that was not his real name. 198 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:35,380 But I mean, this is back in 2004, 2006 when we first started working together, 199 00:12:35,459 --> 00:12:43,640 we had that student who did, not all the things, but caused struggles with 200 00:12:43,780 --> 00:12:46,289 his team again and again and again. 201 00:12:46,420 --> 00:12:50,770 So we love to use that Fred name, even though it's not in the new book, we've 202 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:54,790 switched the names around, because it reminds us that there are times where 203 00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:59,180 you have those one or two students who cause their teams to struggle. 204 00:12:59,460 --> 00:13:05,030 And so now the stories are really a conglomeration of multiple experiences, 205 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,120 not just from us, but from other faculty members we've talked to, interviewed, 206 00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:11,689 it comes from our discussions with them. 207 00:13:11,699 --> 00:13:17,520 So each one starts with a story to try to show people it's real, it's honest. 208 00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:22,460 This is what, as a faculty member, even a faculty member who wrote the book and does 209 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:28,440 this, I had a Fred last semester, even with all the procedures, it still happens. 210 00:13:28,719 --> 00:13:32,110 And we've all had students like Fred at some point. 211 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:35,610 I bet you some of us have colleagues named Fred. 212 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,290 That's certainly true. 213 00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:43,210 So we start with a story, and then we have some reflection questions, 214 00:13:43,330 --> 00:13:46,360 asking the reader to think about, has this ever happened to you? 215 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,300 What did you do? 216 00:13:47,309 --> 00:13:50,270 What would you recommend if you knew someone in this situation? 217 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,280 And then we go into the content for that particular chapter and talk 218 00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:59,760 about what things are most important, what some of the issues are, and then 219 00:13:59,770 --> 00:14:01,619 how to resolve some of those issues. 220 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,289 And the second section of each chapter is the student section. 221 00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:11,840 And so this is basically just a pared down version of the instructor section. 222 00:14:12,290 --> 00:14:17,040 It includes some content and theory and that sort of thing, but it mostly includes 223 00:14:17,170 --> 00:14:19,170 the activities for students to do. 224 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,434 So that's where we have handouts where the professor can make copies and put 225 00:14:23,609 --> 00:14:26,120 students into teams and have them do that. 226 00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:30,640 So that is the basic framework for each of the chapters. 227 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,060 And starting with a narrative can be a really effective way of engaging 228 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:37,310 people and making the issues memorable. 229 00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:40,670 Can you talk a little bit about some of the student activities that 230 00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:43,469 you just mentioned that come in the form of handouts and things? 231 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:49,000 So, in each chapter, we have activities that really are focused 232 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,230 on the content in that chapter. 233 00:14:51,690 --> 00:14:54,610 Some of them require the students to reflect. 234 00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:58,600 Some of them are specific activities to help them develop. 235 00:14:58,859 --> 00:15:03,780 So, for instance, one that we love, and it's a great icebreaker, is the group 236 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:08,860 IQ test, and we use that right away, where they take an IQ test, really not 237 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:13,280 an IQ test, as you can imagine, but they take a little, I think it's 13 item 238 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,770 quiz, individually, and then they take it again as a group, and watch how much 239 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:24,699 differently they do in a group versus when they were doing it individually. 240 00:15:24,810 --> 00:15:29,430 And it helps them to see sometimes an individual does better than the group, 241 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:34,009 sometimes the group does better than any of the individuals, and what causes that? 242 00:15:34,049 --> 00:15:37,780 It's a real good way to get people thinking about group work and teamwork. 243 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,420 But we also have exercises. 244 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,670 Again, in every chapter, there's exercises that help to hit that content home. 245 00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:49,450 For the faculty members, for example, we have an exercise about how to create 246 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:53,459 a team task, which is really something. 247 00:15:53,539 --> 00:15:54,790 It's one of the inputs. 248 00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:59,590 And any task we use as professors really needs to be focused on a 249 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:04,919 team and not an individual, and there is a difference about that. 250 00:16:05,330 --> 00:16:09,599 In the leadership chapter, students can take leadership assessments and 251 00:16:09,719 --> 00:16:14,780 see how they rate themselves, and that way, that will foster a discussion in 252 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:20,089 the team about should we pick a leader, or should we have shared leadership, 253 00:16:20,089 --> 00:16:23,729 and what are we going to do if we've got a conflict with the leader? 254 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:28,499 And so we try to make all of the activities relevant to whatever is in 255 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,930 the content of that particular chapter. 256 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:34,830 One of the things you talk about in the book is best practices 257 00:16:34,830 --> 00:16:36,520 in terms of how to form teams. 258 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:39,190 What are some of

your recommendations for that? 259 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:43,929 I know students generally prefer picking their own teams, but you argue that 260 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,880 that's probably not a very good strategy. 261 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,300 Could you talk a little bit about that? 262 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,220 Never, never, never let them pick their own teams. 263 00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:55,969 You just don't get the diversity of people, ideas, backgrounds, 264 00:16:55,970 --> 00:17:01,779 experiences that you need to really do a great job on a team project. 265 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:04,530 You need lots of inputs into the team. 266 00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:07,960 And when students pick their own teams, they pick their friends, they pick 267 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,050 people that they already know, that they have things in common with, and 268 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:17,379 it really hinders their ability to do a good job, and it also can test the 269 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,529 bonds of friendship, because inevitably, they're going to be issues on the team. 270 00:17:21,819 --> 00:17:24,760 And sometimes people think, Well, I'm friends with these people. 271 00:17:24,829 --> 00:17:27,780 I can let this slide, or I can miss this particular meeting, 272 00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:30,280 because I know them really well, and they know I'll come through. 273 00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:36,219 And so it's really important… the number one thing is not to let students do 274 00:17:36,219 --> 00:17:38,680 that and tell them that at the outset. 275 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,790 At first they're disappointed, but then you explain the 276 00:17:41,790 --> 00:17:43,690 importance of having to do it. 277 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:48,320 So we go on from there to talk about ways that you can put the teams together. 278 00:17:48,510 --> 00:17:51,859 Tim has a good one that I think he can explain about the 279 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:53,569 questionnaire that students use. 280 00:17:53,969 --> 00:17:58,090 So a perfect example this semester, my students, in my… 281 00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:59,950 it's called workplace psychology. 282 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,980 In that class, they do a project, and at the beginning of the semester, I was 283 00:18:03,980 --> 00:18:07,800 very clear that they're not going to pick their own teams, just like Lauren said, 284 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:14,470 and I used a structured approach for that, which means I give them a questionnaire. 285 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:19,639 Now I use Qualtrics, an online survey, and I know what skills they need to succeed 286 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,800 on this project, and so they have to answer questions, self rating, better than 287 00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:29,610 nothing, but they’re self rating their ideas about how they are with writing, 288 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:35,520 with analysis, with organization, with leadership, with working as a team member, 289 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,590 and I have more too, but I pick the skills that are necessary for success, 290 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:46,570 and then I make sure that every team is balanced so they have somebody who rated 291 00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:52,889 on a five-point scale of four or five in each area, so they can feel comfortable 292 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:57,840 knowing that their team does have the skills to succeed in this project. 293 00:18:58,010 --> 00:19:01,659 And I will tell you, Lauren and I are really passionate about this whole 294 00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:05,509 idea of don't let people pick their own teams, find a better way to do it. 295 00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:09,499 And the number one reason, other than all the theoretical reasons, 296 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,309 and what the research shows, and if you look in the team based learning 297 00:19:12,510 --> 00:19:15,620 literature, they're very clear, and they have the research to back this up. 298 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:22,040 But there’s a student I had, where I'll just call her Jane, and Jane saw the world 299 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,909 a little differently than most of the other students in the class, and I'm still 300 00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:28,860 choked up about this because I was swayed. 301 00:19:28,879 --> 00:19:32,370 This is 15 years ago, when I was swayed to let them pick their 302 00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:34,399 own team, and nobody picked Jane. 303 00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:38,010 Now Jane was actually a straight A student and really thoughtful and 304 00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:43,340 hard working, but Jane was quirky, and nobody picked Jane, and Jane was 305 00:19:43,340 --> 00:19:45,270 in tears at the end of the class. 306 00:19:45,299 --> 00:19:48,560 And is really, is that the type of situation we want 307 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,139 to set up in our classes. 308 00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:53,520 Our classes should encourage that knowledge diversity. 309 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:54,750 Bring people in. 310 00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:58,950 That's the whole reason we use teams, is to have a lot of different voices 311 00:19:58,950 --> 00:20:02,820 and opinions so that we can make more informed and better decisions. 312 00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:04,649 So let's utilize that. 313 00:20:04,869 --> 00:20:09,389 And the main thing in terms of the students, is to make sure the 314 00:20:09,390 --> 00:20:14,000 process is transparent, so they understand how the teams were put 315 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:15,490 together, how they were formed. 316 00:20:15,929 --> 00:20:20,529 I even had one of my public speaking classes, I told them what the 317 00:20:20,530 --> 00:20:24,779 parameters were: you can't pick your own teams, and I let them suggest them. 318 00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:27,510 And it turned out they had a great idea. 319 00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:31,670 We made sure that people from different majors were in teams 320 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:36,430 together, and that people who had different experiences in the field 321

00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:40,419 of public speaking, how much they had already done coming into the class. 322 00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:43,460 And it turned out those were great teams. 323 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,179 So it's just making sure that the students understand that this is what's important. 324 00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:52,582 And remember, when they get into their professional settings, you don't have a 325 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:54,420 choice of who you're going to work with. 326 00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:59,919 You're in a certain work group, or have a certain manager you report to, and that's 327 00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:01,700 the group that you have to work with. 328 00:21:01,910 --> 00:21:04,170 You have to learn how to work with them. 329 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,440 So it's really good training for the future. 330 00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:10,409 And I forgot to close the loop about workplace psychology, because they did 331 00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:16,629 tell me in mid-November that they were really bummed that they didn't get to 332 00:21:16,629 --> 00:21:21,910 pick their own teams at the beginning of the semester, but they loved by 333 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,770 mid-November that we did it the way we did, because they knew they could all 334 00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:31,479 succeed on the project, and they actually admitted that they met some new people. 335 00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:35,449 So it worked out well, I don't know if anybody's getting married like my nephew. 336 00:21:36,429 --> 00:21:39,590 One of the things you advocate for is the formation of team charters. 337 00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:42,250 Can you talk a little bit about what a team charter is 338 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:43,890 and what they should address? 339 00:21:44,290 --> 00:21:50,020 So we let the students know that it's important that they set up some guidelines 340 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:51,679 at the beginning of the semester. 341 00:21:52,049 --> 00:21:56,220 Occasionally, we've actually done this with the class, where we've put 342 00:21:56,220 --> 00:22:01,040 the students in teams and have them generate some norms that they think 343 00:22:01,050 --> 00:22:05,119 should govern their discussions, and we'll post that on the course management 344 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:09,100 system, and then if something's going wrong, we can always go back to it. 345 00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:13,600 A team charter is a little more formal, but when a team is working 346 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,440 on a big project, it's a good idea for them to sit down and decide 347 00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:20,290 how they're going to run things. 348 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:25,160 Are they going to, for example, set up a common meeting time, which we 349 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:29,059 really stress, that students look at their schedules and figure out 350 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,950 all of their other responsibilities. 351 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:34,070 When can they meet every week outside of class?

352 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,810 They have to have a common meeting time, and that's really important. 353 00:22:38,030 --> 00:22:39,930 How are they going to handle conflict? 354 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,800 How are they going to make decisions? 355 00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:44,970 Tim and I, this week we're doing a LinkedIn series on problem 356 00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:47,910 solving and this week, we've been talking about decision rules. 357 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:49,720 Is it going to be majority rule? 358 00:22:50,050 --> 00:22:52,010 Students like to do majority rule. 359 00:22:52,010 --> 00:22:56,249 But then, if you're in a five-person group and you're in the two that don't 360 00:22:56,249 --> 00:22:59,839 get your choice, how committed are you going to feel to the decision? 361 00:23:00,030 --> 00:23:02,100 So do you want to work with consensus? 362 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,860 Are you going to appoint one leader or are you going to rotate leadership. 363 00:23:06,219 --> 00:23:09,649 What are you going to do when you get stuck? 364 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,360 Are you going to go to the professor first, or are you going 365 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,690 to try to work it out yourselves? 366 00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:18,439 So all of those things, and in the team charter, it's great if the 367 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,639 students actually write those things down and have everyone in the team 368 00:23:22,639 --> 00:23:25,980 sign off on it, because it gives them something they can go back to 369 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:30,180 later on, when inevitably, they've got some issue they need to work out. 370 00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:35,150 I actually did a presentation, Lauren is on the presentation, just about a year 371 00:23:35,150 --> 00:23:38,979 and a half ago, at NITOP, the National Institute for Teaching of Psychology, 372 00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:44,760 about how to do those charters and one way I do them, and this is what I 373 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,630 talked about at NITOP, is working it around our obligations to one another, 374 00:23:48,790 --> 00:23:52,450 rather than our expectations of one another, it's what we owe one another. 375 00:23:52,450 --> 00:23:56,200 And it puts a different spin on it, and allows people to see that, for their group 376 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,339 to succeed, they have to do something. 377 00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:01,370 It's not what they get from others, but what they have to do and what they 378 00:24:01,370 --> 00:24:04,430 owe, so and again, this is something that I presented and Lauren wasn't 379 00:24:04,430 --> 00:24:07,370 at the conference, but we're both on the conference presentation for that. 380 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,149 One of the things you've already talked about is having these team 381 00:24:11,179 --> 00:24:15,580 charters as a way of reducing the likelihood of problems and also perhaps 382 00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:19,600 providing a simpler way of resolving them, since they had all agreed to it. 383 00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:23,800 But are there other things that instructors can do to help resolve 384 00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:27,549 issues of shirking by individual members, because that's one of the most 385 00:24:27,550 --> 00:24:29,520 common problems we see with teamwork. 386 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,269 So I'm going to say two things, and I'm sure Lauren will have even more 387 00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:36,979 than this, because we have so many ideas to help with this, that lack of 388 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:41,180 motivation, that free riding, social loafing, that happens in so many teams. 389 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,360 So I'll just talk about two and then Lauren, you can add on. 390 00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:52,519 But number one is creating a task, a team task, that has meaning to it that doesn't 391 00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:57,740 just seem like a project that we have to do to get a grade in the class, because 392 00:24:57,740 --> 00:25:01,690 if the students find meaning, especially if that project has some community 393 00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:04,180 impact that goes beyond the classroom. 394 00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:07,310 By the way, having a community partner, it's wonderful for team projects, because 395 00:25:07,310 --> 00:25:11,140 it really does make students realize the importance of the work they're doing. 396 00:25:11,140 --> 00:25:15,460 So once you add that importance factor into your team project, 397 00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:18,750 that it's meaningful, it's worth something, that helps right away. 398 00:25:18,750 --> 00:25:21,850 So as an instructor, that's the number one thing is when you're designing the 399 00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:26,170 project, make sure it has some impact that the students see that can help 400 00:25:26,170 --> 00:25:30,149 them get a job or help a community organization or something like that. 401 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,770 And number two is ongoing peer evaluation, and we stress this in 402 00:25:35,770 --> 00:25:41,310 our book again and again, that peer evaluation needs to be not just at the 403 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:46,790 end, when we're giving our final grade, where in finals week, we collect the 404 00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:50,610 peer evaluation sheets and then put it on some learning management system. 405 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:52,679 They wouldn't know what they're going to get. 406 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:56,980 Instead, peer evaluation is something that you should do in an ongoing 407 00:25:56,980 --> 00:26:01,159 basis at least three times in the semester, and in my class that I'm 408 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,070 teaching right now, I did it 10 times. 409 00:26:03,070 --> 00:26:08,850 And so it was every week they did peer evaluation, and they got feedback 410 00:26:09,050 --> 00:26:11,850 every week on their peer evaluation. 411 00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:16,960 So this way they can see what they're doing and know how to change it, 412 00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:20,649 and know

where they can improve, the developmental, formative opportunities 413 00:26:20,650 --> 00:26:22,029 that we all want to give our students. 414 00:26:22,469 --> 00:26:27,860 So, keeping team small is one way to reduce shirking or social loafing, 415 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,680 because it's a lot harder to hide when there are fewer people in the team. 416 00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:38,250 And a lot of the research says five to seven is good, but it depends on what the 417 00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:40,369 project is and what the class is like. 418 00:26:40,369 --> 00:26:44,600 I've had three person teams that have worked really well with projects. 419 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,610 So, keeping the team small, checking in, checking in, checking in, so not 420 00:26:49,610 --> 00:26:53,899 just having them evaluate each other and maybe giving them time to talk 421 00:26:53,910 --> 00:26:57,540 about those peer evaluations, which are sometimes really hard discussions to 422 00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:03,220 have if somebody's not measuring up or doing what they had signed on to do, 423 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:08,389 but instructor checking in, finding out what's happening, giving students a 424 00:27:08,389 --> 00:27:12,500 few minutes at the end of class to talk about their projects, and just walking 425 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:14,830 around and hearing what they have to say. 426 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,060 We've also done more formal check-ins, where we've given 427 00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:22,980 surveys and have them just indicate where they are in the project. 428 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,610 And we've done this sometimes with anonymous surveys. 429 00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:31,709 And one time we had, “Have you already picked your topic?” We were two weeks 430 00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:36,510 in, and half the teams hadn't picked their topic yet, and there was a whole 431 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:40,850 process just for picking topic, getting permission, because it did involve 432 00:27:41,030 --> 00:27:45,430 people outside of the classroom. So we were like, “Okay, guys, you really need 433 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:49,630 to get through this.” And we needed to, on a regular basis, we need to go over 434 00:27:49,639 --> 00:27:53,060 what those deadlines were for those sorts of things that they were doing. 435 00:27:53,219 --> 00:27:57,160 One of the things that we also did to kind of keep watch on what they were 436 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,240 doing, is we set up a Google folder for each team in one of our classes 437 00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:07,509 with instructor access, and everyone had to write in the folder each week 438 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,539 what they had done for the project. 439 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:13,530 And sometimes they would write, “Well, I had a lacrosse tournament, so I didn't 440 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:17,360 get anything done, but this week I'm going to do this.” We're like, “Okay, you get a 441 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:22,310 pass for this

week.” But if I look and see someone hasn't read, hasn't put anything 442 00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:25,989 into the Google folder for three weeks, like, how much are you contributing? 443 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,160 What's your role? 444 00:28:27,339 --> 00:28:30,590 And are you letting the team down by not following through? 445 00:28:30,790 --> 00:28:36,210 So it's a great way to keep track of what's going on and to avoid that, 446 00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:38,550 because it is a problem, people shirking. 447 00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:42,800 One of the big things that we hear is, “Oh, I end up doing all the work 448 00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:44,840 because people are contributing.” 449 00:28:45,130 --> 00:28:45,899 Dang it, Fred. 450 00:28:49,209 --> 00:28:53,139 So when faculty are using a mix of individual and team assignments, 451 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:57,109 what helps determine whether an assignment is more appropriate 452 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,780 for an individual or for a team? 453 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:06,149 Well, on that one, if it's something that can be easily broken up, divided 454 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,270 up, and each person can take apart and then smush it back together. 455 00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:12,010 It's really not a team assignment. 456 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,770 That's an individual assignment that's broken up for a group to do. 457 00:29:15,770 --> 00:29:20,009 And one of our pet peeves, and oh, I'm not going to speak for Lauren here, but I have 458 00:29:20,009 --> 00:29:24,810 so many of them, is that presentation, when you get to the end, and it's a 459 00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:28,530 group project, and slide one looks one way, and slide two looks another way, 460 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,270 and slide three looks totally different. 461 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:33,250 And, by the way, covers some of the same things that were on slide one. 462 00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:36,529 Yeah, that's a group project or an individual assignment 463 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:37,980 that's been shoved together. 464 00:29:38,139 --> 00:29:42,649 So a team assignment has to be fairly difficult. 465 00:29:42,910 --> 00:29:45,399 It's okay to add some challenge to it. 466 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,330 So we have to make it challenging. 467 00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:53,100 It has to have a lot of ways to get to the end point. 468 00:29:53,179 --> 00:29:58,289 It can't be one single way, by the way, fancy word: path multiplicity. 469 00:29:58,539 --> 00:30:02,429 And there has to be lots of different endpoints that could all be successful. 470 00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:06,540 That's solution multiplicity, and these are the important parts. 471 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,729 It also needs to force students to use those different skills. 472 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,030 It needs to require that they collaborate to succeed. 473 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:20,600 I think the importance of interdependence in the project is probably the thing 474 00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:24,830 that will help you realize whether or not it's a good team project. 475 00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:27,880 Doing a research paper, that's for an individual. 476 00:30:28,050 --> 00:30:32,439 And one of the issues that we often see with people who aren't used to using 477 00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:37,510 teams and are maybe starting out is they might take an individual project 478 00:30:37,650 --> 00:30:42,430 and give it to a group and say, “okay, here, do this, “and especially as 479 00:30:42,430 --> 00:30:47,320 classes get bigger in some institutions, they might think, “Oh, it's easier. 480 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,480 Instead of giving this paper, I give this research paper assignment to a team,” but 481 00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:57,100 it's not the kind of thing that can be done effectively, and they really need 482 00:30:57,100 --> 00:30:59,800 to be designed specifically for teams. 483 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:04,649 And there are lots of great team assignments out there, and we have a 484 00:31:04,650 --> 00:31:06,929 bunch in our book and on our website. 485 00:31:06,969 --> 00:31:10,600 I mean, we give away a lot of this content, so there are lots of ways that 486 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:16,040 you can get help if you're looking to make an effective team assignment and 487 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,290 also give feedback to each other as well. 488 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,820 Can you give just one example of a really good team assignment? 489 00:31:22,059 --> 00:31:23,889 I know that's hard when I say one. 490 00:31:25,259 --> 00:31:26,370 One is hard. 491 00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:29,490 I mean, we've had so many that have been just really 492 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:31,250 interesting to see what happens. 493 00:31:31,420 --> 00:31:36,820 My favorite one is when we had the students actually pick a 494 00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:43,040 group on campus, a team, and do a communication analysis, or a small 495 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,699 group analysis of their process. 496 00:31:45,889 --> 00:31:49,950 And for example, we decided to keep it on campus because it was starting 497 00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:52,459 to get too unwieldy to manage. 498 00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:57,110 But they would have to go to say, a student club, like the Student Government 499 00:31:57,110 --> 00:32:01,590 Association Executive Committee, and say, “We have to observe your meeting at least 500 00:32:01,599 --> 00:32:05,640 three times. Can we get your permission?” So that was one of the first steps, pick 501 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:11,300 a group, get permission, and we would make sure that people could remain anonymous, 502 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,580 although if it's the president of SGA, everybody kind of knows who that person 503 00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:18,220 is, but they would observe these meetings. 504 00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:19,820 They would have to collect data. 505 00:32:20,049 --> 00:32:23,199 Some of them would do a communication analysis, or they 506

00:32:23,199 --> 00:32:25,069 would do a leadership assessment. 507 00:32:25,309 --> 00:32:30,950 They always did post-meeting evaluations by the team members. 508 00:32:31,050 --> 00:32:32,020 How did it go? 509 00:32:32,020 --> 00:32:33,030 That sort of thing. 510 00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:37,750 And one of the challenges for them was not only getting the team, getting 511 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:42,190 to these meetings, but deciding what data were they going to collect? 512 00:32:42,410 --> 00:32:48,070 So that was a whole big decision, because we gave them reams of instruments that 513 00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:53,179 they could use, and then it culminated in a report back to the class. 514 00:32:53,290 --> 00:32:56,420 They had a portfolio of all the information that they had 515 00:32:56,420 --> 00:33:00,249 collected, and they did an oral team presentation to the class. 516 00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:05,370 And one of my favorite parts was that each team had another team 517 00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:10,480 that they had to peer evaluate, and so when they were done, they had a 518 00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:12,939 chance to give them feedback as well. 519 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,340 So at the final meeting of the semester, we asked students like: “What did you 520 00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:21,479 learn about the team? What'd you learn about yourself as a team member?” 521 00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:26,770 And I just thought it was a great way to use it, and we called them group 522 00:33:26,770 --> 00:33:30,480 dynamic consultants, or something like that, that they came in and did that. 523 00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:32,480 So, I think that was my favorite. 524 00:33:32,589 --> 00:33:34,250 I think that's a great example, Lauren. 525 00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:38,660 It really required, and this is where we use those different skills to pick 526 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:42,200 the team, It really required somebody who's good in analysis, somebody who's 527 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,560 a good leader, somebody who can talk to the client well, and all those different 528 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,950 things where we want teams to succeed. 529 00:33:50,170 --> 00:33:53,690 They need these skills, and they had to bring them together, each 530 00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:56,400 working in their different lane, in their different role, but pulling 531 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,800 it together and working together. 532 00:33:58,050 --> 00:34:01,709 What are some ways that faculty can encourage the development of student 533 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,689 leadership skills or team leadership skills, through these assignments. 534 00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:09,929 Well, you know, team leadership is so important, and as we're talking about 535 00:34:09,929 --> 00:34:15,230 the surveys out there, the NACE survey, the AAC&U survey, these are all talking 536 00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:17,639 about the importance of leadership skills. 537 00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:23,520 A Carnegie organization now has the LPP, the leadership for a public 538 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,149 purpose, designation for schools, and this is something where schools 539 00:34:28,170 --> 00:34:32,260 can do better to structure leadership opportunities for their students. 540 00:34:32,260 --> 00:34:34,210 And a team project is the perfect place. 541 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,030 Now, what's really nice about a team project is that the leadership, 542 00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:42,379 and Lauren said this earlier, the leadership needs to be shared and 543 00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:44,389 needs to rotate to some extent. 544 00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:49,730 So it's a really good place for different students to get those small-group 545 00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:54,420 leadership skills, different from somebody who's up on a public stage or 546 00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,160 a politician who has to show a vision. 547 00:34:57,460 --> 00:35:01,739 These small group leadership skills are where our students can start to develop 548 00:35:01,780 --> 00:35:07,339 in a very safe way, an environment where they're getting feedback and 549 00:35:07,339 --> 00:35:10,770 development opportunities, where they're not going to feel like their 550 00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:13,670 job is at risk in these little groups. 551 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,240 And by the way, I'm going to say that that's just not 552 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:17,805 the case for team projects. 553 00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:22,310 It's also the case for the group work in your class when you have, and we do, 554 00:35:22,410 --> 00:35:26,529 Lauren and I use those terms differently, a team project: long standing, they're 555 00:35:26,530 --> 00:35:28,500 working together more collaboratively. 556 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,939 But there's a lot of times where Lauren and I would throw in a group 557 00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:35,040 project, a group exercise one day, and we'd shuffle the groups up. 558 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,120 And I still do this. 559 00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:41,350 And even in those small-group situations, having somebody step in to be the 560 00:35:41,350 --> 00:35:44,960 leader, having somebody picked to be the leader, have that rotate, make 561 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,370 sure different people get those skills. 562 00:35:46,370 --> 00:35:51,320 So it's a great way for us as educators of future leaders to 563 00:35:51,370 --> 00:35:55,529 help people to develop the skills in a psychologically safe manner. 564 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,900 And one of the things that we stress to the students really continuously, but 565 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,470 leadership is a really good example of how do you answer a question when you 566 00:36:05,470 --> 00:36:07,890 get to a job interview about leadership. 567 00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:11,176 So if you go in and they say, “Well, tell me about your leadership,” and they say, 568 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:16,770 “Well, I was captain of the tennis team.” Well, yeah, that's an okay

example, but 569 00:36:16,770 --> 00:36:22,120 it's not the same as saying “I was the team leader in a team project.” And these 570 00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:26,470 are the things that we actually had to do, or if they said, “Tell me about a 571 00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:32,109 time when you were able to overcome a problem working on a team” and having 572 00:36:32,109 --> 00:36:36,860 the leader being able to explain that can be really powerful when they get into 573 00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:40,820 a job interview, especially as the job market has gotten tighter and tighter, 574 00:36:40,890 --> 00:36:44,799 our students need to have a little bit of an edge when they get into the interview. 575 00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:47,890 And we do have a leadership assessment tool in the book that 576 00:36:47,890 --> 00:36:49,850 we've created that anybody can use. 577 00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:50,569 It's for students. 578 00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:51,700 So it's in our student section. 579 00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:54,300 And again, as Lauren said, all those things are available 580 00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:55,510 to any users of our book. 581 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,570 We have all those student things, all the student handouts, 582 00:36:58,570 --> 00:36:59,720 that people can download. 583 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,730 So the leadership assessment tool is a great one to use, especially if you want 584 00:37:03,730 --> 00:37:06,310 to show students how they have developed. 585 00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:09,989 So I have, at times, given that at the beginning of the semester and 586 00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:13,600 then given it at the end of the semester again to help them see. 587 00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:17,900 What's funny is, some students will actually go down, but in their 588 00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:23,589 reflection about why they went down, they write, “I didn't realize all the 589 00:37:23,590 --> 00:37:28,589 things I didn't know.” So they are actually more calibrated by the end, 590 00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:30,570 even if they've dropped sometimes. 591 00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:36,190 One of the things that faculty sometimes find challenging is how to do team 592 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,399 projects in an online or virtual setting. 593 00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:43,650 Do you have any suggestions for how teams can work well, in those environments? 594 00:37:44,009 --> 00:37:45,329 Oh, we have a lot of ideas. 595 00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:49,319 We do have a whole chapter in the book, and we've written about this 596 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:51,330 in a number of different places. 597 00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:56,500 One of the big things to keep in mind is that it's important to 598 00:37:56,500 --> 00:38:01,580 keep the team small in an online class, because the more people you 599 00:38:01,590 --> 00:38:03,410 have, the more difficult it can be. 600 00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:10,410 Also need to require the students to set up a time when they can meet together, 601 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:15,110 even virtually, but have a face-to-face kind of meeting time, because if they 602 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,750 think they're going to just be able to do the whole project by sending 603 00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:24,100 text messages or putting input into a Google Doc, that's going to be pretty 604 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:26,210 challenging to be able to finish that. 605 00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:30,510 So those are two things that I think are important, and I know Tim's done 606 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,269 more online teaching than I have, and probably has some more and better ideas. 607 00:38:34,349 --> 00:38:39,220 Well, what Lauren talked about are actually, absolutely, the best ways to 608 00:38:39,220 --> 00:38:44,960 start, and that idea of face-to-face time, whether it's Zoom, I don't mean that they 609 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,060 need to be in person, because a lot of times I work with students that are in 610 00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:55,320 different states, but that face time, that Zoom meeting, whatever it is, to kick off 611 00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,289 with that and then continue using it, like Lauren said on a regular basis, is great. 612 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,770 Now I do think, as the instructor, we make assumptions. 613 00:39:05,180 --> 00:39:08,009 I am going to admit my age here. 614 00:39:08,250 --> 00:39:12,270 There was no digital work when I started my teaching career, and this is my 615 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:16,609 second career, so it's a very different environment, and our students grew 616 00:39:16,709 --> 00:39:22,609 up with this stuff, yet I find that they have no idea about all the tools 617 00:39:22,610 --> 00:39:25,010 we have that are available to them. 618 00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:28,200 So as an instructor, you do need to spend a little time helping 619 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,630 them to work through the tools. 620 00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:31,600 They see everything as a group chat. 621 00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,770 I have to say, you know, not all of them, but so many of the students 622 00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:35,939 just say, “Oh, we have a group chat. 623 00:39:35,969 --> 00:39:38,750 That's how we're going to communicate.” And I'm like, “Yeah, it's only one 624 00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:41,835 little thing of the many things.” So you have to explain the tools you have, 625 00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:45,500 and then, to some extent, teach to those tools, and you have to make sure 626 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:50,150 the students know how to match the tool to the task, because, for instance, if 627 00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:56,350 you have conflict in your team, that's not a group chat resolution, that's 628 00:39:56,350 --> 00:39:59,110 a phone call or something like that. 629 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,720 It's a different way to deal with that. 630 00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:05,390 So one of the exercises… Rebecca, you asked about the exercises… and one of 631 00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:09,270 the exercises we

have is what tools do they have, and then how they're 632 00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:14,130 going to use those tools to solve different parts of their team project 633 00:40:14,190 --> 00:40:15,580 when they're going to use each one. 634 00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:19,170 Now, it always helps to have a leader who's organized and 635 00:40:19,230 --> 00:40:21,729 keeping the team on task. 636 00:40:21,730 --> 00:40:25,880 So if you have somebody with online skills and has done this before who's 637 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,289 leading the team, that's also helpful. 638 00:40:28,859 --> 00:40:32,970 In an online team, it’s probably more important to have someone who's 639 00:40:33,390 --> 00:40:38,680 an official leader, either that the team agrees on of one person, or even 640 00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:42,819 that the professor might suggest that this person should be the leader. 641 00:40:42,819 --> 00:40:48,559 And the structure of the project is so important in both online and face-to-face 642 00:40:48,570 --> 00:40:53,480 classes, but especially in online, because they actually just need that structure 643 00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:58,120 for how they're going to be able to do it without seeing each other all the time. 644 00:40:58,469 --> 00:41:02,569 One of the things I've done when I've had group projects online is to have 645 00:41:02,570 --> 00:41:06,279 a discussion forum where students were given some choices in terms of 646 00:41:06,279 --> 00:41:09,399 what types of projects they could do, and I just had them state what they 647 00:41:09,410 --> 00:41:13,920 most preferred to work on, and also what their time availability was so 648 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,570 they could match themselves that way. 649 00:41:15,570 --> 00:41:18,769 There wasn't as much of an issue with an online class of students knowing each 650 00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:22,970 other, because many of them had never met before in other classes, but at least 651 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:28,430 they could try to find some ways in which they could agree on topics, but also do 652 00:41:28,430 --> 00:41:31,910 it in a way where they would be available at the same times, because some of the 653 00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:36,070 students were working every day, some of the students were working nights, some 654 00:41:36,070 --> 00:41:37,689 of the students had a couple of jobs. 655 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:42,119 Some of the students were taking care of ill relatives, and their time flexibility 656 00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:47,170 was limited, but there was always someone else in the class that had similar time 657 00:41:47,170 --> 00:41:48,910 constraints, and it worked pretty well. 658 00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:52,999 I will say that I recently had an experience, and to be very personal, 659 00:41:53,090 --> 00:41:57,479 I have a daughter who just graduated college, and she had a professor 660 00:41:57,490 --> 00:42:02,350 who said, “you have to meet one of these three times,” and she was a D1 661 00:42:02,350 --> 00:42:07,160 athlete and worked outside of school and had a busy life, and none of 662 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,529 those times worked with her schedule. 663 00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:11,430 So John, I really like that, because the idea is, let the 664 00:42:11,490 --> 00:42:13,330 students set their own times. 665 00:42:13,330 --> 00:42:16,249 Don't pick them for them, because our life is very different. 666 00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:19,830 They may want to meet at 11 o'clock on a Sunday night. 667 00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:23,899 I will be snoring in the recliner by then, I guarantee it. 668 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,360 Well, and we also have to consider that in online environments, we 669 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,990 might not be in the same time zone. 670 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,110 Exactly. 671 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,920 Our friend Mike Palanski, who's at Rochester Institute of Technology, 672 00:42:34,070 --> 00:42:35,309 I still remember this so well. 673 00:42:35,309 --> 00:42:39,460 He did one of our video interviews that we posted, and he talked about 674 00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:45,600 the importance of calendar courtesy when you're working in online teams. 675 00:42:45,620 --> 00:42:46,509 That was his term. 676 00:42:46,830 --> 00:42:50,240 So Mike says you have to have that calendar courtesy to recognize that 677 00:42:50,259 --> 00:42:56,730 it doesn't always have to be at my time on my 9 to 5 schedule when you're 678 00:42:56,730 --> 00:42:58,940 working in an international team. 679 00:42:58,940 --> 00:43:03,650 And I will say this is a side note, another personal thing, but once I didn't 680 00:43:03,660 --> 00:43:05,890 get to my book club until nine o'clock. 681 00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:08,530 I told them, I have a meeting at eight o'clock. 682 00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:12,750 And they all laughed at me, and they said, “Is he meeting with somebody from India?” 683 00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:16,029 And when I got to book club a little after nine, they said, “Oh, you're meeting 684 00:43:16,050 --> 00:43:18,160 with somebody from India.” I said, “I am. 685 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,820 I'm meeting with one of my editors on one of my books, who could meet at 8pm 686 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,440 and that's what worked for both of us. 687 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,704 It was in the morning for her.” Now, yes, you do have to have 688 00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:28,180 that calendar courtesy, so thanks to Mike Palanski for that. 689 00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:32,020 Do you have any advice for faculty getting started with team projects? 690 00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:33,030 Yes, we do. 691 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:39,690 So if a faculty member has never done any group work or team projects, we 692 00:43:39,690 --> 00:43:44,340 recommend they start small by doing some group work in the classroom, and that 693 00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:49,530 can be as simple as taking content for class that day and having discussion 694 00:43:49,530 -->

00:43:53,870 questions, or having them do a process called learning through discussion, which 695 00:43:53,870 --> 00:43:58,449 is more structured, where students do the reading for the class and then come in 696 00:43:58,460 --> 00:44:02,919 and the professor can rotate around and see if the teams are really understanding 697 00:44:03,110 --> 00:44:04,820 what it is that they're talking about. 698 00:44:05,010 --> 00:44:08,620 And then when you're ready to move on to a team project, we would 699 00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:10,120 recommend that you start small. 700 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,579 So don't start with something semester long, maybe a project that could just 701 00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:21,579 take two or three weeks, and start small in terms of the content and also how 702 00:44:21,580 --> 00:44:25,880 much you're demanding of the students and how much you're able to follow 703 00:44:25,890 --> 00:44:28,220 along with what they're working on. 704 00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:33,069 So we have an article about that in Inside Higher Ed that was published 705 00:44:33,110 --> 00:44:37,329 just a couple of months ago about how to start doing a team project. 706 00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:39,429 And we can link to that in the show notes. 707 00:44:39,820 --> 00:44:42,620 So we always wrap up by asking, what's next? 708 00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:47,630 Well, we continue our collaboration, as you've heard already, we've been 709 00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:52,830 writing articles, we put out videos on LinkedIn, and our Making Team Projects 710 00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:58,190 Work Facebook page at least every week, and sometimes more, and we are going 711 00:44:58,190 --> 00:45:02,660 to continue to figure out what's next for our collaboration, with Lauren in 712 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,940 Arizona and me in upstate New York, it's actually continued to work really well. 713 00:45:06,990 --> 00:45:08,750 We've got some other things, Lauren, you want to add to that? 714 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,950 Yeah, we have been doing some seminars and workshops for people. 715 00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:15,140 We've been doing a lot of series for LinkedIn. 716 00:45:15,790 --> 00:45:21,310 And this semester, we've been doing just short videos giving quick tips and then 717 00:45:21,310 --> 00:45:26,370 linking to some of the other items that we have on our website and in the book. 718 00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:32,310 So we've got lots of content out there, and we've been to a few conferences. 719 00:45:32,469 --> 00:45:37,360 One of the conferences that we talked about the idea of moving from doing 720 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,930 a lecture to working on teams was at the Team-Based Learning Collaborative, 721 00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:46,490 because if you don't have a requirement that people use team-based learning, 722 00:45:46,490 --> 00:45:51,040 sometimes it's really hard to get your colleagues interested in doing that. 723 00:45:51,059 --> 00:45:55,819 So we have worked on that sort of thing, moving from lecture to 724 00:45:55,820 --> 00:45:59,980 using teams and giving people those tools that they can take with them. 725 00:46:00,470 --> 00:46:01,220 Well, thank you. 726 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,930 It's been great talking to you again, and one of the suggestions I'd make 727 00:46:04,940 --> 00:46:07,869 for those people getting started is picking up a copy of your book. 728 00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:08,700 Thank you. 729 00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:09,979 We'd be very happy. 730 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,339 Thank you so much for having us, and we really appreciate the time. 731 00:46:14,339 --> 00:46:18,690 And again, all the student resources are available for anybody who has the book. 732 00:46:18,690 --> 00:46:20,939 We're happy to share those so you can download them and use them. 733 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,630 And it's great to have your book to provide that structured learning 734 00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,870 opportunity for how to make teams. 735 00:46:26,090 --> 00:46:26,750 Oh, thank you. 736 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:27,689 That's great to hear. 737 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,189 If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on Apple 738 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,450 Podcasts or your favorite podcast service. 739 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,530 To continue the conversation, join us on our Tea for Teaching Facebook page. 740 00:46:45,940 --> 00:46:50,750 You can find show notes, transcripts and other materials on teaforteaching.com. 741 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,290 Music by Michael Gary Brewer.