התמלול המלא של Splash Considerations Ep. 35: What Now? (feat. John Shea)

throat cancer. 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.120 And so you kind of have this kind of double whammy of things happening in that last week. 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.199 And you know, both of them kind of mention it. 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:34.959 They also they both thought it was gonna be a very emotional day, and Kuiper kind of sets the tone for that day with the the stick figure with the boiler, as Kruko said, and then obviously the Giants lose that last game. 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.519 Christian Coss almost hit the almost hit the the go-ahead homer that was. 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:47.519 It kind of was a little left of the foul pull, but they lose that game five to one in ten innings, but there was a lot of fans that were still there after the that game ended. 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:51.839 I think I think you even mentioned to me when a lot of fans left after the game's like, what are these guys doing? 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:52.480 What are they doing? 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:53.519 Why are they leaving? 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:58.319 There's a lot of fans that left, but you know, the speeches after the game were phenomenal. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:02.319 Krucos in particular just knocked it out of the park. 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:06.160 It was it wasn't about him, it was about everybody that helped him along the way. 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:10.959 Just starting here, Shay, you've obviously known Mike for a very long time. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:12.720 Just what was that day like for you? 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:18.879 What was your impressions of that day overall and some of the speeches that were made during that day? 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.800 You never want the glory days to end. 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:32.000 And I'm not talking wins and losses, I'm talking relationships and seeing the same folks every day who have a smile on their face. 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.800 And you know, Willie McCovey was in a chair. 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:36.399 He had a smile on his face every day. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:48.800 If anybody had a right to be better about baseball, about life, uh, about what happened to his knees over the course of his playing career with all the terrible artificial turfs that McCovey played on, it was him. 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:54.240 Yet he came to the park every day up until his final year at age 80. 00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:00.720 Um, upbeat, optimistic, and that's why we have the Willie Mack Award, because he was so inspirational. 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:04.639 And now that award is given out every year, went to Logan Webb this year. 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:12.000 It very well could have gone to Mike Kruko because he has every right to be upset at the world. 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:19.759 Why me with this unfortunate disease that is plaguing him and that forced him into retirement uh a little bit early? 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.079 Even though most people his age are really retired, he didn't want to retire. 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.560 He's got this job where you could just keep going. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.519 You you talk for a living, that's not digging ditches. 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:51.040 And uh it's unfortunate, but it was more, I think last Sunday, a celebration than uh pity, sadness, uh bitterness, and um, you know, it so it it was just so amazing that Kruko didn't talk about himself at all in his speech, he just talked about everybody else. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:58.480 And at the Hall of Fame, you see speeches where the inductees talk about themselves, their journey. 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:05.040 You know, what I did as a kid, what I did in the minors, what I did once I got to the big leagues, and what I did to win this award. 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:06.879 Kruko never said aye. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:11.360 It was always you, and he called out everybody, and called including you and me. 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:13.920 He called out the reporters, he called out the reporters. 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:16.560 That's how inclusive he was. 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.639 And I mean, no, who does that? 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:21.120 Only Mike Kruko. 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.439 Only Mike Kruko. 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:34.319 Um, but you mentioned the Hall of Fame right there, and and Shay, I don't I don't think we need to go 12 rounds in on this discussion. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.600 I think we're both kind of in the same boat here as far as them going into the Hall of Fame together. 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:54.639 And, you know, one of the last real feature stories that I wrote, I talked to a lot of you know younger broadcasters around the league, Brian Anderson, Books Giambi, Dallas Braden, even you know, former teammates like Mark Grant and Bob Brentley, and they were all in agreement that you know these guys need to go in together. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:02.399 And you know, for the younger guys, they really helped make you know, Kruko helped really, you know, kind of pave the way for them to make them feel comfortable. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:06.319 And again, we don't have to get into the actual discussion. 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:18.079 I think we're both in agreement, but I think if anything, I think Sunday afternoon affirmed that if they were to go into the Hall of Fame together, it would be an all-time speech. 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.439 It would, they would have to the broadcasters, they don't get the big stage. 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:22.639 Like that's only for the players. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.040 They would have to give them the big stage on that day. 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:33.840 And they would just they could just let him ramble for 30 minutes, not ramble, but they could let him, you know, give them the ball ISO off the wing for 30 minutes, and no one would be upset at all. 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:38.240 I would suggest each is deserving of his own day in Cooperstown. 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:40.320 Why do they have to go in together?

00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.559 Unfortunately, neither has gone in yet. 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:47.360 Say if Kuiper went in five years ago, and we're not talking going in as a Hall of Famer. 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:51.120 We're going, we're talking about being a recipient of the Ford C. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.240 Frick Award. 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:56.480 That doesn't mean you're a Hall of Famer, although people say a Hall of Famer, John Miller. 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:07.120 I mean, technically, that's incorrect, but we can all be you know praiseworthy of John and say, yeah, you're a Hall of Famer, because you won an award at the Hall of Fame. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:10.240 But technically, it's just winning an award at the Hall of Fame. 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:12.240 Um, they have a lot of awards. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.840 That's probably the biggest they give out for non-players. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:25.600 And since the 70s, they've only given it out to one person per year, um, except for the first award uh they gave out to two people. 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:27.039 Uh Barbara Mellet. 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:30.879 Yeah, I mean, that was New York, New York, and that was a big deal. 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.679 And then they said, well, shoot, we might run out of guys. 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.600 Let's just do it once a year. 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:43.919 Um, so I mean, Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons were the first broadcast team in the San Francisco era. 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:46.000 They went in independently. 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.720 Uh, they won the award in separate years. 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:56.000 Um, Hodges had done it a long time in New York before coming to San Francisco, and Lon was a lot younger. 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.840 But still, it's like, well, yeah, everyone says they should go in together. 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:03.279 I think they should go independently and have their own day, right? 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.720 But uh the next best thing is to go in together. 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:20.320 And Jane Forbes Clark, the chair of the board in Cooperstown, uh kind of kind of a stickler uh for tradition, though don't ask Barry Bonds about that because they're kind of manipulating the voting system. 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:30.000 And the result is Barry's not a Hall of Famer, taking away five of our years of the voting process, and the writer side going from 15 to 10. 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:38.639 Jim Rice went in 15th year, bonds definitely would have gone in if the rules still applied because he was trending, he got up to 65%. 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:45.120 And then the veterans committee, hey, if you get fewer than five votes, you're not on the next ballot three years from now. 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:48.240 It was kind of okay, that's another way to keep Barry out. 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.960 That's unfortunate, and that comes from the top. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:59.039 And while uh the president of the Hall of Fame, Josh Rowicz, uh, would probably love Kruko and Kuiper to come in together. 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.759 I mean, they need stuff like that. 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.120 They need Barry Bonds. 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:09.360 Attendance at the Hall of Fame last year at the induction ceremony was like an all-time low, 12,000. 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:17.120 It used to be when Gwynne and Ripkin and all those guys, it was up 40,000, 50, 60, one year 75,000 people. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:23.440 Even Ishiro the year before, an international icon, that drew 20,000. 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.240 So they need people like Bonds. 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.480 They need people like Kruko and Kuyper. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:35.360 So a whole bunch of fans, including from the West Coast out here, will just flood the streets of Cooperstown induction weekend. 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.279 So, yeah, we'd all we'd all love to see it, and that's sooner than later. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:47.600 Uh Bob Costa says pretty much everybody on the voting board is on board with that because all they have to do is look at the ballot. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:53.919 They don't make the ballot, they vote for the ballot, and unfortunately, they haven't been in as a tandem. 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.120 Maybe someday they will, especially after this weekend. 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:09.840 I would I would encourage every Giant fan to send a video of that ceremony to Jane Forbes Clark, put the pressure on, say, hey, look at what these two dudes mean to each other, look what they mean to the community. 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.279 Go back and research how good they've been. 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:24.080 Yeah, and I remember when Shana and I had this conversation like way back, well, not way back, it was during the summer and we were discussing Kruko's retirement. 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:36.799 It is a very, you know, it is a kind of that nebulous spot journalistically where it's like you do need to, there's like a level of impartiality that you still need to have, but it's also like these two dudes were the the voices of my childhood. 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.480 And even like behind me, if you could see it, that's where my PlayStation 2 is. 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.919 And I'm glad Dwayne Kuyper mentioned the video game thing during his speech. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:59.279 Like it was very subtle, but to me is very meaningful because I mean the work that they I'm not gonna go on the baseball the video game rant, but like the work they did on MVP baseball 03, 04, and 05 was fantastic, and they were a voice of for even non-Giants fans. 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:15.200 And so, you know, the impact that these two have had, just not in San Francisco, but again, I mentioned it with some of the broadcasters that they touch, like the Milo Hamilton prank, where they're like, hey, Brian Anderson, you should go do that with Milo, and then Milo Brian Anderson does it. 00:13:15.440 -->

00:13:20.639 Milo's furious, and then then when they go back, they start throwing out these full-size bags of Cracker Jack. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:28.240 Like, it's it's only them that you can really get that from, and they've just been such a long-standing duo, they're a testament to just the power of friendship as a whole. 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.519 And yeah, it's I understand tradition, like all these books behind me. 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.519 That's there's a lot of tradition in a lot of those books. 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.080 There's a lot of tradition in the books that you have behind you as well. 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.120 We got a couple of your books behind me as well, Shay. 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:45.679 There's there's a couple in there, but I say Alex Pavlovich, I think I have the same. 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:46.720 It's in there. 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:47.759 Shout out to Babs. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:53.120 But you know, at the same time, it is a museum, and a museum is supposed to serve the people. 00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:10.240 And I remember I don't think this ended up making the story just because this could have been a novel, but I remember Brian Anderson mentioned to me, like, I would love if some someone was like taking their grandkids there one day and just like look at the the two-faced plaque of Kruok and Kuype and say, like, that was one of the best right there. 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:12.879 And what's next? 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:35.919 It's going to be Dwayne Kuyper and a collection of folks that we probably are uh aware of anyway, from Javi Lopez to Sean Estes to Hunter Pence, who'll probably be in a rotation system with um, you know, Kruko obviously didn't cover every home game because you had all these streaming services come in and use their own guys, unfortunately. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:40.480 So that took time away from people listening to Kruko for a day. 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:46.080 But he he did at least 70 home games and 21 split casts. 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.960 So you have almost a hundred spots that have to be filled next year. 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.279 Um, and that's going to be difficult. 00:14:53.519 --> 00:15:00.320 Pence lives in the city, uh, Lopez lives back east, Estes lives in Arizona. 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:10.879 That's not to say Lopez couldn't come in for a couple of weeks and call some games, but I think all arrows are pointing to a rotation basis, at least for now. 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.960 And I spoke with Will Clark about it. 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:13.840 He would love to do it. 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:22.159 Folks like that, if they could recruit Barry Bonds to the booth for a weekend or a homestand, I mean, the ratings would go through the roof. 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:27.600 People would love to hear Barry talk uh hitting, would love to hear Will talk anything. 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.799 And Kruko has always been the pitching guy. 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:53.759 Nobody breaks down pitching like he he, I've written twice that the Giants need to hire him as an advisor to the pitching staff and and the pitching coaches, because we see every day how he breaks down the art of uh you know pitching, pitchers, uh tendencies, um, everything about the game from from uh up on the hill. 00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:08.639 So um, yeah, it it's it's gonna be unfortunate because you know, my childhood, I I remember watching Frank Robinson, and they had great Frank Robinson stories because they both played for the man here in San Francisco. 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.120 But who's gonna be able to talk Frank Robinson with Dwayne Kuyper? 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:13.679 Nobody. 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:20.320 Nobody knows Frank Robinson like Kuyper and Kruko because they played for him and they had great behind-the-scenes stories. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:28.000 So um that conversation will be a one-man you know, conversation because the others don't know about Frank Robinson. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:32.000 They've never probably met him or experienced him or anything like that. 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:42.080 Um so we won't see the same stories, but hopefully we'll see the same and experience the same color, um, the same liveliness, the same creativity. 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:48.159 And it's not just about the game, it's about the crowd, it's about history, it's about the legacy of the team and sport. 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.080 And you know, it's all it's all pro fans, right? 00:16:52.159 --> 00:17:04.400 It's all uh, you know, poking fun at fans or uh playing up fans or catering to the fans, and that's kind of the whole shtick that you know we kind of all loved over the years. 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:10.720 So it's gonna be a little different, but it's good to have at least one of those gentlemen back in the booth next year. 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.200 I mean, you mentioned the poking fun at fans. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:18.720 There was that uh there was that dad that kind of cost some heat there during that last week. 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:25.119 And that was I I will say, did you did you read the story, the the Substack story that came out of that? 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:33.680 Well, yeah, and our I Well let me let me provide the new side wrote that as well at the standard. 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.599 We we we had somebody write that story, which kind of blew me away. 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:48.000 Yeah, for for those who aren't familiar, like the very I think it was like the Friday game, and this was like the ultimate, like still has the fastball painting corners, 97 on black. 00:17:48.319 --> 00:18:01.839 It was this this mom who was carrying like three trays of food, but also had the kids strapped to her chest, and she gun like delivers the food, and then you know, the dad just starts like immediately eating it, and the mom's just like holding the food. 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:06.880 But then the mom went on Substack and was

like, hey, he's actually going through a lot. 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:15.119 Um, but it kind of was, you know, not even obviously not knowing that context, it was still just some you know, good old-fashioned, you know, poking some fun. 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.759 Although don't don't ever get on the internet and start throwing some barbs at people that you don't know. 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.440 Don't don't don't make it weird, don't make it personal. 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:23.039 Some people were making it personal, Shay. 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:24.640 Never heard that on the internet before. 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:29.839 And Kruk Kruko's line was the the the the dad's asking, hey, where's the catch up, sweetie? 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.119 And and that was funny. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:43.599 It shouldn't be uh, hey, there's all kinds of Reddits and uh posts on the internet about uh the this sucker, you know, why doesn't he man up and help the wife and the kid? 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:47.200 You know, it's it's it's it's 10 seconds of their life. 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.279 Don't judge them, stay away. 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.680 It just appreciate the moment, appreciate the humor, appreciate Kruko and Kuiper. 00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:05.680 Yeah, it was just one of those final moments where it was like, and again, it's just this terrible disease that is preventing him from doing this job because John Miller's made this point a couple times, and I'm sure he's made it to you as well. 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.880 Like, Kruko is still like really, really good at this. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.319 He's still like really good. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.160 Like you listen to a broadcast, and it doesn't, he hasn't missed a step at all. 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:22.319 Like, just the knowledge of the game is I I had that privilege, like you mentioned, to be um at the studio for one of his broadcasts. 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:30.319 You know, I got there a little before he did, I left after he did, so I was there pre and post, as well as the two and a half hour game. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.880 Um, the team was at Dodger Stadium, so it was one of the final split casts. 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:51.680 So I saw him, you know, I might have poked in during a broadcast here and there over the years uh at the ballpark, but this was different because I was just a few inches from him, so I saw his body languages, I saw his focus, and he's as good off the air as he and as he is on the air. 00:19:51.759 --> 00:20:01.119 He's funny, he he's deep, he's uh intelligent, he he's witty, and he holds that baseball the whole time. 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.839 It's not a stick just for the camera. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.759 He he's flipping it back and forth. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.759 He's probably doing it now as we speak. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.440 I mean, that's his life and blood. 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.480 That's you know, the grip, um, the release, uh, the arm slot, all that stuff. 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:16.160 He could talk, but but he but he can't. 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.559 It's like Linus in the security blanket. 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.519 And and and and that's that's what it does for him. 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.960 He's he's at home when he's got a baseball in his palm. 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.559 And uh, so yeah, he constant research, constant homework, non-stop. 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.519 It's just not okay, I'm stepping back between innings. 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.319 I'm gonna see who texted me or you know what's trending. 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:48.400 No, he's going over different uh you know uh pitching stats and umpire stats and tendencies, and and there's so much involved, and and he's still focused. 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:54.480 I mean, he was working on the pronunciations of some of these new Dodgers an hour before the broadcast. 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.799 I mean, he just needed to get everything right. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:04.480 While it looks cool and breezy on the air, there's ultra focus pregame and between innings. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:12.559 So it's like he could have just jaked it in those final weeks and said, you know what, I I'm just gonna casually bow out here. 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.920 No, he he took it seriously all the way to the end, including with that amazing speech. 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.279 Professionalism until the very end. 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:35.200 Um, given the current state of this current Giants team, that might be that that might be something that uh you would hope that the this current iteration of the team can you know take and take with them moving forward to the offseason. 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:41.119 It's funny, Shay, you mentioned that you know you you're kind of pounding the table for him to have maybe some type of role in the pitching department. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:55.519 And Shay, given how this season went, there there might be some occupancies on the on the pitching s side of things going forward because while it was fun to talk Kruok and Kype, while it was fun to reminuche, it's time to talk about the twenty twenty six San Francisco Giants. 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:56.400 Okay, that's a wrap. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.200 That's a wrap. 00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:58.000 All right, we're done. 00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:58.640 We're done. 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.240 It was great talk Okay, let's go. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:02.960 All right. 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:03.599 Jay. 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:05.519 Let's get the final tally here. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.119 Let's get the final tally here. 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.799 65 and 97. 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.480 It's the third most losses since they have moved to San Francisco. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.279 They have missed the playoffs in nine of the last 10 seasons. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:25.200 They tied the record for the most players used in a

single season, that being 71, tying the 2025 Atlanta Braves. 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:26.720 And I just want to note this right here. 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.359 That did not include Zach Morgan. 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:30.960 The debut never had. 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.640 Do you want to stop right here before we go any further about how this kid just didn't get his debut, or should we keep going? 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.440 Tell me. 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:46.000 I mean, so I think this was I think multiple fronts kind of fell short here. 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:51.119 Because obviously when Zach Morgan first got called up back in like August, he was a giant for like 12 hours. 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.279 They they signed Andrew Kisner like right after. 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.640 They just needed a guy. 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.160 He got there in like the fourth inning because he was flying in from Vegas. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.720 Like, okay, you're not going to make your debut then. 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.119 But then they called him up September 1st. 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.079 And he was with the team for about seven games until they optioned him on September 8th. 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:17.440 And I I know that Tony Vitella was really like banging the table that final weekend for him to get called back up, but it was September. 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.799 They were out of it by then. 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.359 Andrew Kisner and Drew Kavanaugh did not need to start every one of those games. 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.039 With all due respect to the two of them. 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:32.559 And then the final weekend, Tony says, Come hell or high water, Zach Morgan's going to be on the roster. 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.920 And I guess hell and high water are here, Shay, because Zach Morgan never got called up. 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.799 And let's be real, he's 27. 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.200 He's probably not going to be part of, like, he's probably going to be part of the purge of guys. 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.440 Because again, there's the next note I have is there's 17 guys on the 60-day IL. 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:55.839 And obviously, if they played Zach Morgan, that would have given them the record because they also brought back Camilla Duvall. 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.200 And maybe there was some like Tony said there was a sensitivity to the number. 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:02.400 He he literally said that. 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.200 You can presume that there was, you know, they didn't want to break the record. 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.519 I think that's that's not outlandish to say, based off what Tony said. 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.000 But the record's probably going to be broken anyways, like in the next two years. 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:19.839 Like, this isn't like the all-time home run record where it's going to be there forever. 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.720 It'll be gone in a year, especially with

the lockout and all the uncertainty and like what might happen. 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:28.880 Um, I just thought it was in very poor taste uh all around. 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:37.039 Um I I said it to you after he initially got sent down in August, like when he was there for like 12 hours. 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.599 I was like, this kid's a phantom ball player now. 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:41.599 And he was like, Dang, you're gonna say that to him. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.960 I was like, I mean, it's true, like he's been on a roster and he didn't play. 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:53.359 And now he's like really a phantom ball player because he's been on the roster for like or in around the team for like two weeks, and he didn't get a chance to play. 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:58.000 And and again, he's a he grew up in Stockton, he's a Giants fan. 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:09.359 It it would have been a perfect moment for him, and it would have been a nice in that's the one thing that Tony said is that in a season so abysmal, you've had these nice moments, and that would have been a really nice moment for the kid. 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:09.920 Good call. 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.480 And I say kid, he's the same age as me. 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:23.839 But he's a kid, and that moment, if we're being uh honest, it's probably not gonna arrive anymore, unless like a lot of things fall into fall into place next year. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.119 Who would you blame? 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.039 The front office or the coaching staff? 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:38.880 I mean, I think initially, I think Vitello, just during that seven games in September, like there there was an opportunity to play him, like pinch run, pinch hit something. 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:51.039 But then once you get to the final weekend, I think someone should like Posey, Manassian, somebody in the brass should have had the emotional intelligence to say, like, hey, like this record doesn't matter. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:26:01.359 It really like it's not like it's front and center, like this isn't gonna make national headlines, like it's it really only matters in San Francisco, and it's not gonna matter in about a week. 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.319 It's just gonna be like a like a talking point we all use. 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:13.200 So I think there's blame to go all around for this, but I do think my tello should have played him earlier, and then once the final weekend arrived, I think they should have just added into the roster. 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.279 Like there was guys injured, anyways. 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.920 Like Wilkinson didn't pitch, Perdomo didn't pitch. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.279 There was an opportunity. 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:24.720 The the the problems and issues on this team are so much greater than what we're talking about right now. 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:33.359 Like, who the heck who the heck cares about a record that we didn't even know who the previous leader of the pack was? 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.240 Did you know that the Braves used more than any other team? 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.960 No, I I didn't know until we started getting up there, and it was like, oh, they're gonna tie. 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.799 I that's when I found out. 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:48.079 I think we did know who had the record before Barry Bonds broke it, wasn't it Hank Aaron? 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:49.839 Yeah, but that's it. 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.680 So it's a little important. 00:26:52.240 --> 00:27:06.079 And and losing 97 and having 17 guys on the 60 man, 44 uh uh IL stints all season, more than any other team, more days than any other team. 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.759 Uh they don't walk, they don't steal well, they did at the end. 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.400 Um, they don't defend well, they don't use a lot of common sense or uh practice good fundamentals. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.440 Um there's some poor choices in-game with the bullpen. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:28.480 Um there were some uh iffy moments on you know lineup construction or whatever. 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:33.119 Um there were uh there were awful starts by the big money guys. 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.400 Uh off the field, things were not good. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.480 On the field, things were not good. 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.960 And we care about a record. 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.440 You are a record holder already. 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:45.519 You're you're tied with the Braves. 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:46.720 Does one more matter? 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.720 Okay, now you're not tied with the Braves. 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:49.680 Is that a thing? 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:51.599 I I would hope that's not a thing. 00:27:51.680 --> 00:28:02.319 I would hope nobody behind closed doors said, you know, we can't bring this kid up and let him play because then we'll be all alone with the most players used in the season. 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:03.519 It's so meaningless. 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.640 The season's already been so embarrassing. 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:17.440 This is like that, like, and it's it's like kind of one final cherry on top to like one final embarrassing thing. 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:18.799 That's kind of what it feels like. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.240 Everything like the prior six months happened, like you can't erase that. 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.240 At least let this kid have his moment. 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.160 That that's that's all I'll say. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:29.920 And you you mentioned the bizarre. 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:31.680 Shay, I think you know this. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:35.839 I've had a running list of all the bizarre things that have happened. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:56.000 But before before I get into them, do you have a fake like a I don't know if favorite is the right word, but of all of like the non-baseball and maybe even some baseball things in here, of all like the

really weird, odd things that have happened this year, what's the one that sticks out to you the most? 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.839 Because there's a lot to choose from. 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.640 See, Giant fans are different than Ace fans. 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:06.480 Ace fans did goofy things, Giants thing fans did professional things. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:16.319 Like in 10, 12, and 14, if anybody tried to dump Gatorade on Madison Baumgartner in a post-game interview, he would have kicked your ass. 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.119 Right? 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:18.400 Don't go there. 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:21.759 Buster didn't want it, the Brandons didn't want it. 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.480 But now it's like a thing, and I I kind of cringe every time that happens. 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.759 Not to pick on Willie Adamas, but he's the guy. 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.319 They made a bobblehead of him pouring Gatorade. 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:45.599 And I think the worst thing that I saw all year was when he was at second base chatting with Mookie Betts, and then on a fly ball to the outfield, he started running off the field. 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:50.319 Little did he know there weren't two outs, there was one out, and he got doubled off. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:59.680 And it was such a terrible look that he was chatting with the guy, forgetting how many outs there were, maybe not even knowing how many outs there were in the first place. 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:00.960 And you just can't do that. 00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.160 I don't care if you're Mr. 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:02.640 Social. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.559 Willie Mays was one of the most social guys on the field before games afterwards. 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.680 Uh I mean, he went out with Dodgers after Brooklyn Dodgers, New York Giant game. 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.880 Those were his buddies. 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.279 Junior Gilliam was one of his best friends. 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.359 So after every game, they would go out. 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:29.039 McCovey told me once that he couldn't he couldn't just imagine being like Mays at all because McCovey never talked to anybody. 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.119 Even if a guy got on first base and they're holding him, he would never say a word to them. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.319 Before the game, never. 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.200 But Mays was at the batting cage, kind of yucking it up with the opposition every day. 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.079 But he always knew how many outs there were. 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:44.559 You gotta focus during the game. 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:54.480 And I don't think Mays ever turned to Maury Wills and started yucking it up, and then with a fly ball, started running off the field thinking that's the third out. 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:55.200 Never. 00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:02.960 You just don't do that as a baseball player, as the highest paid uh free agent that the Giants ever signed.

00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:11.119 Buster Posey signed you, broke his own record, speaking of records, as the highest paid giant ever, and now he's given it to the shortstop. 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.839 There a lot comes with that. 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:21.839 Leadership comes with that, and accountability comes with that, and intelligence and in-game awareness comes with that. 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:24.400 And he's he's been a problem, man. 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.319 His defense was not good. 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.119 What was it? 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:34.960 Negative 17 um outs above average, and that's negative 17 outs above average, and he missed the last month in change. 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:40.160 So he could have been negative 20, because that compiles and as the season goes. 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:41.440 So I don't know. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680 That that really said a lot about your 2026 Giants. 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:48.400 Well, I'll say this, Shay. 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:49.759 I'll say this. 00:31:50.480 --> 00:32:02.240 If that was the if that was the most controversial, bizarre thing that happened this season, I think I think with what we know now, Shay, I think the Giants would have taken that. 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.119 Because there's been so much more that that has happened over the course of the season, but it is a good point. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.519 That was a really weird, not that was weird, not weird, that's not the right word. 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:20.640 That was a very um it's a really bad moment for Adamus, and what was a really bad season for him overall, and we'll get into Adamus uh as a whole. 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.960 And then I think we also have to note that Tony Vitello did not bench him the next day. 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:30.720 I think that would have been a really good early use of authority, but you know, he kind of let that slip through his fingertips. 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:42.960 And again, we'll get into Vaitello as a whole, but before we get into the you know, the meet again, kind of dissecting you know the season as a whole as well as the end of season press press conference. 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:48.240 I do I do kind of want to list off some of the greatest hits from this year, Shay. 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.799 Well, do you have 97 of them, one for every loss? 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:52.400 I should have. 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:54.400 There could have been a lot of ways. 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.279 You could have gotten we we could have gotten there. 00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.799 We could have gotten there pretty easily. 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:19.839 But uh among the greatest hits from this season, Shay, you got Matt Chapman yelling at Casey Schmidt to catch the effing ball, the entire Cincinnati Reds saga, which was concluded by Eric Miller, former giant now Eric Miller, uh flipping off the Reds and cussing out the dugout, which feels like a million years ago at this

point. 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:32.799 You had the outfielders dry humping each other after a win at Dodgers Stadium, uh losing both ends of a doubleheader in Philly on on walk-off fashion and not using the 27th man when he flew across the country to be there. 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.279 Uh the Dalton Rushing saga. 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.920 I don't know if you remember that one. 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:41.119 Uh Bryce Eldridge getting called up and not playing immediately. 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:44.480 That was kind of like a weeks-long thing, but that was still a very bizarre moment. 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:56.720 Um, the entire Pride Night debacle, which kind of the headline by the vice president of the United States uh sub-tweeting the Giants, which I don't know if you had that on your bingo card, Shay. 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:58.720 I most certainly did not. 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:13.519 There was Tyler Malley, former Giant Tyler Malley, who just pitched seven innings of one run ball yesterday for the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Giants at this point, uh saying he didn't know what his pitch count was coming off of injury. 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.719 Uh Keaton Wynne going to the injury list after three straight days of pitching, something that he'd never done before. 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:20.000 Including two cities. 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.000 Including two, including a 4 a.m. 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:29.519 flight to get back to San Francisco, uh, the Patrick Bailey trade, which is very shocking, removing Hector Borg as the third base coach. 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:37.039 The Kyle Harrison revenge game in Milwaukee, and Kyle Harrison's kind of tapered off since then. 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:41.280 Um the Willie Adamas forgetting how many outs there were. 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.159 There was the Rafael Devers waving off a pinch runner. 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:48.320 There was Logan Webb quibbling with a KBR producer. 00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:52.880 There was the Wayne Randazzo Apple TV Willie Adamus incident. 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.800 There was uh Logan Webb and Tony Vitello and Ron Wotis being ejected in like 12 hours. 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:02.559 Ron Wotis, not even a coach, being ejected in the dugout. 00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:09.599 There was Bryce Eldridge bumping his head and missing the rest of the season at a hotel in LA. 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:20.960 There was Jung Hoo Lead somehow fouling a ball off and hitting himself in the groin, despite that being like a really weird angle and him missing the rest of the season. 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.280 There was the Philip Abner decision in LA, which is like two weeks ago. 00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.400 That was the night that that was the night I was with Kruko, and he was like in between innings. 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.360 What are they doing? 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:32.639 Why is this guy in the game? 00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.519 And then he kind of made that point in-game as well. 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:43.119 That was if we're talking about you know decisions from front to back, like that was just very questionable. 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:47.920 And I I talked to a manager, another an opposing manager after the fact, and I asked, Would you have done that? 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.519 And it was a very firm no. 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:53.679 And and I guess this is maybe the last final thing. 00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:01.119 It was the uh the naked player on social media after Bo Davidson's debut. 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.960 And I'm I'm pretty sure I'm I'm missing some stuff in there, even with all that. 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:06.639 What did I what did I miss, Shay? 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.760 Harrison Bader? 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:09.679 Yes. 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.880 I skipped right over it. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:13.440 Yes, Harrison Bader, 2 a.m. 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:18.079 in the marina, crash in the scooter, and we'll we'll get to Harrison Bader and his status in a second. 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:20.559 But Shay, I'll I'll ask you this question. 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.440 You've covered a lot of Giants baseball. 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:32.159 Where does this not not from the wins and losses perspective, because they've they've lost 100 before, they lost 98 in 2018. 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:48.159 For you, among Giants seasons specifically, because I know you covered the Padres too, but where does this rank among the odd, bizarre, confounding, confuddling seasons that you've ever covered? 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:54.960 Yeah, I mean, I the only source of history I would suggest is 92 when they were out the door. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:04.079 And and um the narrative was okay, uh, the A's are gonna be a one one-team market. 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.360 Uh Will Clark's gonna play in Tampa Bay next year. 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:11.119 Uh young Brandon Crawford at five years old is holding up a sign. 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.320 Don't go. 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:25.679 Uh there was there's a lot of awful stuff happening in that '92 season because Bob Lurie had a deal, a handshake deal with a group of investors in St. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:33.760 Petersburg, Florida, and they were gonna play in the trap, which is you know one of the two worst stadiums in in the country. 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:35.280 Um what's the other one? 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.800 Sacramento. 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:51.199 It's not really a stadium, but uh, I mean, I I I'll probably call Las Vegas the worst stadium in in the country, uh, only because uh you know John Fisher just ruined it for so many people in the Bay Area. 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.920 Um and what has he accomplished? 00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:01.199 So I yeah, I mean 92 was pretty bad, but this year it's just one after every every week it seemed there was something. 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.400 Every single week, like we would sit in the press box and shake our head and

said, Can you top that? 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:08.480 And then the following week they did. 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:22.800 And it and a lot of that has to do with a rookie manager who just stepped off a college campus, and now you're in the fire of the big leagues with no experience playing in the Pro Bowl, no experience coaching or managing. 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.119 He had never even been to a spring training game. 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.440 So a lot of that was almost predictable. 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:32.000 Like, hey, we're gonna take advantage of this guy, we're gonna ride a scooter in the middle of the night. 00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.519 You know, nobody will catch me. 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.320 I got a guaranteed contract for two years. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.400 Um, how many outs are there? 00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:39.920 Am I thrown to the right base? 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.960 Uh um, I'm missing signs, I'm you know, there's not much accountability. 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.000 So next year there has to be all kinds of accountability. 00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:49.440 They have to work on fundamentals. 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:56.880 Unfortunately, spring training might only be three weeks if there's some kind of prolonged uh work stoppage with the lockout coming December 1st. 00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:04.239 So um it that that's kind of why I said punt on next year and let's let's play for 28, but that's another story. 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:12.320 Well, well, that's a good transition into that because so it's currently Thursday, Tuesday was the end of season uh post-mortem. 00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.920 It was Tony Waitello, Buster Posey, and Zach Manassian. 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:32.480 And you know, for a team that just lost 97 games and is in really bad, like really bad shape going forward, there was kind of a lot of optimism, like a lot maybe some unsubstantiated optimism with that press conference. 00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:41.679 And it's funny, like it's interesting, like the the only real like reality check, it was like minute 36. 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.880 And I asked Buster, I was like, was there any has there been any talks about an extension for you? 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:50.880 Because next season's your last season, and he said no. 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:52.480 But then he kind of used that. 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.519 He said, Well, you know, I've been sitting here and I want to say we don't have blinders on. 00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:03.199 That was not like for as well as the kids played in September, this was an awful season, the wins and losses weren't there. 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:11.840 But for the majority of that press conference, Shay, and I'll let you jump in here, there was a lot of optimism that next year can be better. 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.840 And the the one thing that made me it was kind of the I was sitting next to you during the press conference. 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.599 I was trying to

hold the microphone up to you because you let it go and you gave it to me. 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:26.159 And Buster said, you know, we think we can contend next year. 00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:33.599 And then you proceed to say, because he's like, Because what? 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:40.800 And then you know, you talk about the pitching, but it it was a good qu like the the question could have just ended right there, Shay. 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.519 But you know, I'll I'll I'll I'll lob it over to you here. 00:40:43.599 --> 00:41:01.119 Just what were your impressions from how they handled Tuesday, just their overall tone, and I guess if you want to expand, because you know you wrote about this in the San Francisco Standard, go subscribe to the standard, uh, about why they should punt on 2027 and just focus on 2028. 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:08.079 First of all, what what did you expect Buster Posey to say at this press conference 48 hours after the 97th loss? 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:18.239 And and obviously, this kind of setup, we we see it every year, or we see it when a free agent is signed, or a new manager comes in. 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:31.280 There's a group of reporters, and everybody has his or her agenda on what he or she will write, or broadcast, or podcast, or whatever, whatever reason they're there, they have their own agenda. 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:36.559 So you're not gonna have the typical follow-up question. 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.159 What do you mean by that? 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.679 Lowell Cohn had the best follow-up question in the history of Bay Area Sports Journalism. 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:45.039 What do you mean by that? 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:46.800 And he would ask that all the time. 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:49.440 Somebody would pour his heart out and what do you mean by that? 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:51.360 I mean, that was typical Lowell. 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:57.599 And a guy, you know, you want to learn from because the follow-up question is always key. 00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:11.679 And in a one-on-one, if you had Buster alone, you would have had the follow-up questions that might have been missing on Tuesday, because the format is the PR guys give us a microphone, we ask the question, and then we give the microphone back. 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:17.199 Unless I had a, you know, the last time they gave it to me, I held it and asked a couple of questions. 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:28.559 But mostly people ask the questions, give it back, and then it moves to somewhere else in the room with an entirely different topic because that's a prepared question by the next guy. 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:36.800 So lacking the follow-up question, maybe we didn't get what we what you wanted, but I mean, what's he supposed to say? 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.199 What did you want him to say that he didn't say? 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:41.920 It wasn't necessarily what I wanted him to say. 00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:47.679 I just thought that there would be more of a a sternness to how the season went. 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.880 Because again, he kind of saw it there and you know at the very end. 00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:03.920 But and you know, this has kind of always been their you know, Buster's thing, you know, you want to paint the optimistic tone, but I don't think it would have been like jarring if he was like that was unacceptable. 00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:10.239 I think I think kind of that, like just a more firm like that can't happen again. 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:14.239 And I knew there was gonna be optimism, like there has to be optimism. 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:20.400 You can't just sell this bleak picture and say, like, we're not gonna compete in 2027, we're not gonna do X, Y, and Z. 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:32.639 But it felt like a little a lot of it for a team that has like a lot of, and you mentioned the pitching, like there's a there's a lot of holes on this team shame. 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.920 We can talk about the pitching now. 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.920 It's you know, how do they reconstruct a pitching staff? 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:56.880 Because, you know, among the four guys that got TJ, like Hayden Birdsong might be the first one back, but you know, you have Hayden Birdsong who got his operation in on he got it on opening night, March 25th, Trevor McDonald in August, Carson Wisenhunt in September, and Blade Tidwell is gonna get it in about a week. 00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.119 But their depth is gone. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.840 Shay. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.599 Like not not completely gone. 00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:08.239 Like you have Matt Wilkinson, Anthony Molina, Cesar Perdomo, you and your Marte, but none of those guys are proven. 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:09.599 None of those guys are experienced. 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:14.400 And if you're building a rotation right now, it's Webb, Roop, Hauser. 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:17.119 And then that. 00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.320 Like that's your group. 00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.960 And I think they've combined for like maybe 70 innings, 75 innings. 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.639 Well, no, Molina's pitched like 100 bit, but like among the rest of the three, it's like 75 innings. 00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:33.039 So that's not the foundation for a contending team. 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:38.320 And I'll let you expand upon it there about why you think like 2027 should be more of a gap year. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:48.639 Well, first of all, your free agent window is limited because it starts five days after the last game of the World Series, and it will end December 1st when the lockout comes. 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.920 No more negotiations can occur. 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.840 Teams cannot talk to the players on the 40-man roster. 00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.119 They can't talk to agents. 00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.039 They can't uh negotiate contracts. 00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.760 They can't talk with other teams

about trades. 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:06.400 So we'll be in limbo for a month or two, or three, or four, or five, or six. 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:15.760 And then once that ends, they'll rush three weeks of spring training at you and use that time to continue with the roster building. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.880 Like what they did in 2022 was cancel the rule five draft altogether. 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:29.920 Why was that uh because they didn't, the union didn't want clubs filling up that roster, uh 40-man roster with prospects. 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.639 They wanted these other free agents to be signed. 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.760 So they said, you don't have to protect any of these guys from the rule five because there is no rule five. 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:39.920 So these free agents are still available. 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:40.880 Go go at it. 00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:48.079 And I remember Robbie Ray signed on the eve of the last lockout four years ago, a four-year deal, and he's a free agent again. 00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:59.599 He might not get that sweetheart deal that uh that he got last time because he's older and you know he's walk guys uh now in San Diego, and um you know he's not as young. 00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:05.760 But anyway, yeah, it's kind of the reason with all those guys undergoing Tommy John. 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:12.000 I mean, that would have been the core, the core of your youth coming up to add to the rotation. 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:32.719 Then you get another guy or two off the free agent market, or trade one of these young shortstops for a good starter coming up, maybe um ready to lead AAA and join a big league uh roster, big league rotation, um, and maybe another shortstop to get some kind of young closer potential. 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:36.800 And you know, that's how you build the bullpen through trades in free agency. 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:49.679 So yeah, I don't see I don't see them is especially because the the starters on the free agent market um you know behind behind Scooball is not deep. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:47:16.079 Although we saw Michael King the other day deal for the Padres, uh, you know, Peralta, Clay Holmes, um you know, guys like that, Robbie Ray, Kevin Gossman might come back on a one-year deal for fairly cheap, and he could be a good advisor to a young uh rotation, and he's one of uh Logan Webb's uh uh tutors back when both pitched together, you know, in 21. 00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:19.840 So, and that's when Logan kind of turned around his career. 00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:27.199 So I don't see a whole lot of time um for this front office to just build out of thin air a rotation. 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:35.599 That's why I would suggest maybe get younger guys in here and and develop in 27 and then maybe try to contend in in 28. 00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.119 But you're talking about the rotation. 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:42.000 I think the same question could be how are you gonna build up this this

bullpen? 00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.960 Um I I will say then, and maybe this was a miss point that Buster could have used. 00:47:47.039 --> 00:48:00.880 He he told um the TK show, uh, you know, Tim Kawakami two weeks earlier that he wanted two veterans at the back end of the bullpen. 00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.159 I mean, if you said something like that Tuesday, that could have helped. 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.159 But he did tell Tim that. 00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:07.440 And that's okay. 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:17.039 So whether it's a trade or free agency, um, Morahone, the lefty, who you mentioned as a as a principal guy that they could attract. 00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.719 He's a lefty, he's a setup guy, but he could he could close here, right? 00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:23.039 He's gonna get so much money. 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:27.360 Okay, like if if Tanner Scott got what, 72 million over four years, okay. 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.599 Morahone's getting like 90. 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.760 He's he's getting he's gonna get a bad. 00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:32.480 Wow. 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:33.760 Maybe not then. 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.360 Probably probably not. 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.039 But you know, there are a couple guys with the righty with the Yankees. 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:47.199 The the two guys that really stick out to me as far as you know, kind of in their price range that would actually help is David Bednar and Risella Glacius. 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:54.320 Iglace is a little older, I think he's like 36, but you know, we just saw him yesterday with the Atlanta Braves, like his stuff still looks really good. 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.679 But you know, it's it really is the question, you said it right there. 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.000 It's like, how do you acquire the amount of pitching that you need? 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.599 Like realistically, like you need eight starters to get through a season. 00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:23.119 And like the Dodgers are like in a different stratosphere, but like that's kind of like the ultimate on the far end of the spectrum of like we have enough starting, like you need like seven major league quality starting pitchers to get through a year, and like and then you have your depth after that. 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:32.239 But if you look at the state of the rotation right now, it's a Logan Webb coming off of his worst season since he established himself as a full-time rotation guy. 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:37.679 I do think that going into next year, I think we'll see more of it as a standard typical Logan Webb season. 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.800 Landon Roop, ups and downs, pitched the most innings in his career. 00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:51.519 And I I would like to think that, you know, especially given some of the command issues that he dealt with, I that would be the thing for him to attack so that he can continue to pitch longer. 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:54.239 But a good four or five starter, good four or five starter. 00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.599 Realistically, he's more of a four or five based on what we've seen. 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.719 Adrian Hauser, who I we don't really know like the the flex attendant. 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.519 I think I I need to go back and look at the medical report. 00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:08.559 But I think he should be fine for next year. 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:13.199 But also when he was in the rotation, like it wasn't great. 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.679 And yeah, like when he was in the bullpen, it was solid. 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:18.559 He started to jump back into the rotation, they got injured. 00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.599 So you really don't know what you're getting there. 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:29.679 And then again, you you know, you gotta have all of the the young kids, 24 and under, that have a little experience, but you don't want to go into the season with them. 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:35.280 So how do you get the amount of quality pitching you need for a full season? 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:38.559 And yeah, like Gaussman, someone like him would help, but like they're not getting school. 00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:47.920 Freddie Peralta's gonna make a lot of money, Michael King is gonna make a lot of money, and then you go from there, and it's just not a lot of great options as far aside from depth. 00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.519 And you know, I mentioned I mentioned this in one of my stories the other day. 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:57.920 It's if you really want pitching, you're probably gonna have to give away like a good prospect. 00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:09.119 And I mentioned Bo Davidson as a concept, and it doesn't have to be him specifically, but like if you want a controllable young arm, it it's gonna be have to be someone like that. 00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:14.239 And I don't know if the Giants necessarily want to do that, given that next year is so nebulous. 00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.199 And that kind of leads to another point. 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:29.840 And I know during the Far Han and Gabe era, it was so many openers, it was there was really kind of all of these creative ways to kind of maximize your staff. 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:36.480 But I think you know, this year we kind of saw the opposite of it, where it's like Adrian Hauser's going out there, he's getting shelled. 00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:37.920 Why is an opener not? 00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.840 It took until like July or August for us to see an opener. 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:49.920 So that's the other kind of part of this equation is like, can the Giants do more creative things with their staff to maximize whatever personnel they have? 00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:01.760 Like we saw with the Padres, like the game that sticks out to me, it was July 31st, they had Braggley Rodriguez one inning, Yuki Matsui for three innings, and then I I think Herman Marquez for five. 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:06.159 Like it was very weird,

but it worked, and that's how they maximized what they had. 00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:08.000 And so it's those two questions. 00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:10.880 Can you get enough pitching and can you be creative with the pitching you have? 00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.719 And I don't know if the Giants are going to be able to knock out either of those. 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.119 And you know, maybe there's more of a conversation with the latter. 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:21.119 I know openers aren't fun, but you gotta play the cards you're dealt. 00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:27.119 And it kind of felt like there was times when this, you know, Vitello and the coaching staff wanted to play a hand they weren't dealt. 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.559 Yeah, we saw a lot of openers with Kappler and Farhan. 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:40.880 The Houston Astros took 162 games to win their division, and they got to the playoffs, and their first game they used an opener. 00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:49.199 So that and granted, they were a 500 team and they just kind of backed in to uh to the postseason. 00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.159 But I the mighty AL West. 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.440 The um, yeah, the Rangers, the the A's, the Angels, an up-and-coming division. 00:52:57.519 --> 00:52:58.159 Oh my goodness. 00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.199 But I uh you know, let me ask you something. 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:07.920 Speaking of the the Kapler and Farhan era, obviously everything was pre-planned then. 00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:23.119 Um how to use pinch hitters, how to use the bullpen, they kind of gave uh uh a full autonomy to maybe not full, but a lot to to Tony Vitello to call the game himself. 00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:30.480 Um, you know, the Giants even confirmed that, you know, the front office by saying, yeah, we let him call the game. 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.639 So those are his pitching moves, and that's his lineup. 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:43.599 And uh, you know, Bob Melvin had had that luxury, not with Farhan, but with with Posey when he first came in. 00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:49.119 Because you know, Posey comes from the Sabian Bochi era, he saw that dynamic work. 00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.639 Like you trust your manager to make the right call. 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:57.599 He should be good enough to draw up a good lineup and make smart moves with the bullpen. 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.880 And if you need to pinch hit a guy, you pinch hit a guy. 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.599 But the question to you would be do you think Tony Vitello needs that? 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:15.280 Do you think he needs um direction from the front office to to draw up the lineup and and uh when to pinch hit and when to call in a bullpen guy? 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:20.000 Do you think that he should kind of defer to the front office on those decisions? 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:40.800 I don't know if he necessarily needs to defer, but I I will point out that throughout the year there was a lot of and and I never want to act like I know everything that's going on to a decision because I know you know we talk about left versus right, getting a left on left, getting a you know, getting those matchups. 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:51.760 There's there is more that goes into it, especially when you talk about like swing tilts and things like that, and pri like this guy, his angle is this, and the bad angle is this, so that's a good matchup or a bad matchup. 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:53.360 There's a lot of stuff that goes into it. 00:54:54.480 --> 00:55:00.719 But it was other things like the fact that Tony barely used his bench to start the year. 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:10.960 Like Christian Coss was kind of just like collecting dust for a moment, or some of these like very odd you know, bullpen decisions, like when in the moment where we're kind of looking at each other, like, why is this the move? 00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:26.719 Like, I know the Abner one is kind of the extreme version, but there was some ones where remember during the Yankee series, like I think Ryan Barucki ends up facing Aaron Judge, and Aaron Judge hits one 500 feet, and you know, the splits are so extreme, it's like, why was that matchup allowed to happen? 00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:37.840 Um so it it does I kind of fall into the bucket of you know, the front office creates the team, the manager should have that opportunity to leave. 00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:39.519 You're old school, you're old school. 00:55:39.760 --> 00:56:02.079 I have a little bit of old school in me, but I do think that after having seen the season unfold, I think that there might a little more of like, hey, let's try this, let's do a little different, because you know, that was one of the big questions was you know, how is Tony Vitel just as a manager, as an in-game coordinator? 00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:07.199 And there were a lot of moments where he did look like a rookie manager with no professional experience. 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:08.159 Would you agree? 00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.960 He got the most objections in in the big leagues. 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:19.039 He was the Bobby Cox, uh uh not with not with how he called games, but with how he gave, you know, he got a lot of quick hooks. 00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.360 And maybe a lot of that was bully ball. 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.760 Umpire said, Hey, welcome to the big leagues, kid. 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:25.440 This ain't college ball no more. 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:28.480 Don't don't threaten me, don't talk back to me. 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:33.920 But he took a long time before he even learned how to yell at managers. 00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:38.159 He used to come out 10 or 15 feet and yell from 35 feet. 00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.559 No, you got to go up in the guy's face. 00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.519 And whether it's Tommy Lasor to him or not, you know, hey, some spit might come out. 00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:51.519 I I'm not gonna push you, but I'm gonna yell at

you, I'm gonna put my cap backwards and I'm gonna give it to you. 00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:55.199 I'm gonna earn my ejection, I'm gonna earn that fine. 00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:58.320 But we even that was a slow development. 00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:04.079 I mean, it's like maybe in college you could yell from the dugout and get away from it, but he has to approach. 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:10.800 So, like mid-season or later in the season, he kind of learned when I argue with these guys, I got to go up to them. 00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:14.000 In fact, one umpire said, You should have just come out to me. 00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:17.039 You know, don't say it from there, don't say it late after the fact. 00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:18.000 Remember that? 00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:23.599 So it it Tony Vitello admits it's an education, it's a learning experience. 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.679 You just don't see that at the major league level. 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:31.440 You'll see it in A-ball, double A, maybe even AAA, learning how to manage in Pro Bowl. 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.159 But this is just uh a one-off. 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:44.800 This is one of a kind where uh a coach comes in in his 40s who never has any experience in Pro Bowl, and now you're the man in charge and you have full autonomy. 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.039 So it I've never seen it before. 00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:49.519 I'm used to calling on both sides of the bay, right? 00:57:49.599 --> 00:58:00.000 I mean, maybe Bob Guerin was the closest because while he managed in triple A, he was he just didn't seem prepared uh in Oakland to manage that team. 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:06.639 But shoot, I got here with Roger Craig and Tony LaRussa, and then it became Dusty Baker and Art Howe and Ken Maka. 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:14.239 These are all established uh big leaguers who either played the game or worked them themselves up through the minors for many years. 00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:21.199 And then um, you know, Felipe Alu and Bruce Boci, and then Bob Melvin across the Bay, and then Melvin came here. 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:28.480 So we saw a lot of baseball people, and we're used to in the Bay Area of not going so analytic heavy. 00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:40.639 Obviously, they did in Oakland, but um, you know, the the front office kind of drove those teams with with Billy Bean and David Forst, etc., um, on on how the game planning went. 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:51.039 And you see that across the landscape in the big leagues, but you just didn't see it so much with the Giants until Farhan showed up and hired Gabe, and then everything changed. 00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:55.599 And fans didn't really dig it except for 2021 when everything went right. 00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.559 Uh, you look on the back of the baseball card for every one of those guys, it was like a career year. 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:05.599 I mean, even Crawford, Belt, and and Posey had really good years. 00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:07.840 Longoria

had a pretty good year. 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:21.599 Um, so across the board, they were very good, and you know, all the marginal players had their career years, but then uh I think they believed in themselves too much because they tried to run it back in 22, and it it hasn't been the same since. 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:31.360 So that's that's a long-winded uh answer to suggest that um I think Tony Vitello will be much better next year because of this experience. 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:49.360 This team can't possibly be as bad, and he could only be better based on what he's learned from Washington Wotis, um, Gary Pettis, and um the mistakes he probably made with young uh coaches that maybe he'll have heavier hammer with next year. 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:58.719 Yes, you mentioned the coaching staff, and one last point on Vitello is you know, Posey was asked on Tuesday, you know, why do you still think Vitello is the guy? 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:03.039 And he said, I still believe in his ability to lead the three of us, what we're doing here together. 01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:06.000 And so I I always fall into the bucket. 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:08.800 Uh, it's the the line by the rapper Common. 01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:14.320 Why they say never say never when they know that ain't right, because to say never say never, you done said never twice. 01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:16.000 So never say never, Shay. 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:20.000 Like there's there's no there there's only one guarantee in life, and that's there's no guarantees. 01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:24.880 But as of right now, Tony Vitello will be the manager in 2027. 01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:39.519 But the coaching staff, I don't i it it's interesting because I don't think you know, Posey said we're not gonna make uh uh sweeping changes, but something's gotta change after a season like that. 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:57.360 And the one kind of area of that team that you really highlight after a season like that is the pitching department because it it you know the bullpen is one thing and uh that's a personnel thing, and Buster even kind of shouldered the blame on Tuesday. 01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:02.320 He kind of ov he said he overestimated some of the guys that they had in the bullpen. 01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:15.440 But that being said, like even without having a ninth inning guy, you know, you kind of looked at some of these starters and it felt like even some of the relievers, it felt like there was some meat left on the bone for some of them. 01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:40.079 And yeah, like I it's weird, the bullpen's probably in a better shape than the rotation, just because it there's a you have some fine pieces, but you look at Roop and how it, you know, he had that one stretch where he went like 10 games without getting a win, and he said he has been trying to find stuff, and even the season that Webb had, it just feels like there wasn't a lot of steps taken with a lot of the starters. 01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:50.320 And so you do kind of wonder, like you naturally, that line of leads you to the pitching department, and how much of that pitching department is going to change going forward in 2027. 01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:59.119 So I think if if we're looking at I don't think we'll see wholesale changes, but I do think that you know going forward next year, I think some members of that pitching department might be a little different next year. 01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.960 Yeah, I think I think you'll probably see a new main pitching coach. 01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:16.639 I mean, message was a real nice guy, but I didn't at all hear any pitcher in our post-game interviews suggest that, yeah, he taught me this, told me this, uh inspired me to do this. 01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:34.239 Um, and you know, with whether it's a uh new pitch or a new grip or a new mentality against a certain where we we used to hear that with JP Martinez, you know, there was a lot of praise to him, and certainly with Dave Ruggedti back in the day. 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:48.559 Um so uh it it seems, especially with the Tommy John, they got to reassess the way they they coach, the way they train, the way they weightlift, and especially with the young starters. 01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:52.639 And so I think they probably would have to bring in a whole new mentality. 01:02:52.719 --> 01:03:03.119 And you know, unfortunately for some of these pitching coaches, that might be hey, you're gonna either be reassigned within the organization or maybe look for another job next year. 01:03:03.199 --> 01:03:06.800 And that's just the way of the world uh with managers and coaches. 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.639 If things don't go right, they don't fire the players, they fire the coaching staff or the manager. 01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:20.320 But uh Buster Posey, when when we asked about changes, whether it's wholesale changes in the coaching staff, he said a couple. 01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:21.760 So a couple of changes. 01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:24.800 And I I really hope they keep Ron Washington. 01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:30.239 Um, Zach Menajian kind of hinted that they would, and Walsh told me he does want to stay. 01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.000 I'm sure he told you the same. 01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:35.840 Um, and Wotis is such a team guy going back. 01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:46.559 No, no coach has ever had that longevity in Giants history, let alone um any team's history, with how many, what, six different managers he's coached under. 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.719 Uh, he should have had a coaching uh managing opportunity along the way with the Giants or somebody else. 01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:58.559 Um, and Gary Pettis, what a difference that guy was versus Hector Borg. 01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:05.760 And he just brought brought experience, know-how, intelligence, um, everything to that third base coaching box. 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:12.400 And maybe one time he sent a guy to his death that maybe he shouldn't

have, but otherwise, he was just splendid, he was perfect. 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:17.519 And um we we we just we just never knew with the previous guy, and that was unfortunate. 01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:22.800 So that was good uh that they replaced him, but it was also bad they hired him. 01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:24.719 It was like it's probably too much. 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:30.400 They should have gotten an accomplished guy to begin with, not a guy who was just learning the ropes on the job. 01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.519 And uh Tony Vitello didn't really even know him. 01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:39.280 He was kind of a newcomer to the staff uh because they maybe couldn't find anybody else to coach third base. 01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:54.880 So um I I I think hopefully Ron Washington might be more involved with the with the decision making, uh, more involved with being in the meetings, Wotis as well, and certainly Gary Pettis, because you got to rely on experience. 01:04:55.119 --> 01:05:02.320 You can't just rely on the computer, you can't rely on guys who haven't stepped in the box or um pitched off the rubber. 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:04.320 You just need that experience. 01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:11.440 If you look at Bochi staffs and uh Baker staffs and Aluz staffs, they were just full of accomplished big league players. 01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:24.639 And obviously, we've had a tilt where um the analytics era has brought in people who might not have the experience on the field, but you know, they have a different mindset that they bring to players, and it works, and sometimes it doesn't work. 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:40.400 But um yeah, so he's he's they're not gonna get rid of Tony Vitello with two years and seven million dollars left on his contract, and a vesting option, and a vesting option, and you can't you can't keep bringing in new managers and new GMs every single year. 01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:46.239 And I think four straight years they've changed either the GM president of baseball ops or the manager. 01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:50.079 So at least next year you might have some continuity, though. 01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:54.480 Um, at least in the front office, top decision makers and the manager. 01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:55.760 A little stability. 01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.760 I also I I would be shocked also if Alex Berg isn't back on the next. 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:00.960 Year staff. 01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:08.239 And you know, you mentioned the point of you know, Justin Message may not be getting a lot of guys shouting him out when we talk to them. 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:16.960 I remember during Daniel Susak's, and you were there for it, I think, Daniel Susak's end-of-season kind of interview when his knee was done. 01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:20.079 I think he referred to Berg as like the best coach he's ever had. 01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:20.719 Yes. 01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:26.000 And, you know, I'm correlation, causation, like we'll never know. 01:06:26.320

--> 01:06:30.320 But Daniel Susak had better defensive numbers than Patrick Bailey. 01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:34.079 And Patrick Bailey was no longer working with Berg after that trade happened. 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:38.559 And I don't want to give, you know, all the credit in the world to Berg because that's also Susak's work as well. 01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:42.400 But you know, a lot of guys have I think Drew Kavanaugh as well really praised him. 01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:47.039 I think he does a really good job with the catching, and you know, just the the work kind of speaks for itself there. 01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:53.199 And then, you know, on the hitting side as well, you know, I remember talking to Jonah Cox and he was like, Yeah, Hunter Mentz suggested I do this. 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:53.760 Yeah. 01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:59.440 And you know, Oscar Bernard has a really good relationship with Rafael Devers, who just had a phenomenal season. 01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:03.840 So those those are three guys I would, you know, expect back uh as well. 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:12.800 But I do think that you know, kind of circling back to the pitching side, I do kind of wonder how much change there will be there. 01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:20.400 And I do think like with Frank Anderson specifically, I think because of the relationship with Vitello, I don't think he'd be one to go either. 01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:28.159 I think just having him, you know, in the clubhouse is a really kind of affirming for Vitello, but we'll kind of see there. 01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:32.320 But I want to circle back to a guy that you mentioned earlier. 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:34.800 It feels like for forever ago, and that's Willie Adamus. 01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:38.079 Um, they're gonna keep him at short for right now. 01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:43.119 Shea, how many more years do you think he has as the starting shortstop of this team? 01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:45.599 Not a starter, just starting shortstop. 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:51.199 But Surpose, uh I see Willie Adamus' future as a shortstop. 01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:56.239 You know, the question was for how long, you know, short-term, long term. 01:07:56.719 --> 01:08:05.440 He didn't say for how long, but he knows he's got a flood of shortstops coming up, none of whom will be able to take over that position next year, maybe in 28. 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:15.920 But we can't, we can't see he knows from his championship days, and he said it over and over, that you can't win at this ballpark without pitching your defense. 01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:29.199 Well, they didn't have much pitching this year, and their defense up the middle, I mean, at second base with a rise thanks to Ron Washington and all Luisa Rise's work, he turned into a gold glove type second baseman. 01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:33.199 The Padres didn't want him anywhere near second base at the end. 01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:42.479 Um then he went to Philly and he was so good defensively that Philly manipulated its whole defense around him and put Harper out in the outfield. 01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:44.960 And uh, you know, Alex Bone. 01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:46.640 It just changed everything. 01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:49.279 Well, Harper had a kind of he was that good. 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.399 He didn't have a good game yesterday, at least at least in that in the field. 01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:53.439 He almost cost him. 01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:58.079 Well, then he made up for it with the with the big home run, and they won an extras. 01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:04.000 So uh not gonna take Harper out of the lineup because he missed a ball. 01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:08.560 Um yeah, so anyway, where are we going with this? 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:11.439 Just where do you think about Adamus? 01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:12.399 With Adamus. 01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:20.960 Especially, you know, the back was it was a big issue this year, this past year, and that that obviously plays into the defensive metrics and posey's. 01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:25.199 That is it's the benefit of the doubt is being given there. 01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:28.640 Yeah, so it's it's okay, roll the dice one more time. 01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:38.399 Same with Chapman, who admitted to us late in the season that he had this core issue dating back to April or May. 01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:44.880 And oh, Rafi Devers had this core issue as well, but he was crushing the ball regardless. 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:59.199 And maybe we see him DH more next year because I think I'd rather throw to a 6'7 guy um rather than Rafi, uh, because that 6'7 guy is a hell of a defensive first baseman right now, Bryce Eldridge. 01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:04.239 So I I would say they gotta seriously talk about moving him. 01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:06.479 But where to? 01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:18.960 If Chapman's still here for four years and Johnny Level's coming up, maybe the second baseman of the future, they already have Marcelo Maher, who might be the second baseman next year if he can stay healthy, the kid from Boston. 01:10:19.279 --> 01:10:26.560 But it's like, man, you can't DH because you already have those two guys at first base sharing the DH duties. 01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:34.239 And while Adam is, I think, shoot, his his future might be as a DH somewhere. 01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:42.880 You know, if they can move him, eat some of the contract, you bring in uh one of these young shortstops, Gavin Keelan is furthest along. 01:10:43.039 --> 01:10:45.119 Maybe he's a second baseman in the future. 01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:51.119 And we we're not gonna see all these great prospect shortstops at the big league level together. 01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.600 Well, they can move to other positions like Buster Posey noted Tuesday. 01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:58.880 Some of them will be traded because they need pitching. 01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:00.560 So what's your strength? 01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:02.079 Well, young shortstops.

01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:04.000 Okay, you got to move some of them. 01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:11.039 They hope not to move the wrong one, and the guy comes back as Arod or Ripkin or Derek Jeter. 01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:16.399 Uh but uh uh they got to get the the right call on that. 01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:19.920 So it I I mean, and then do you move him to second base? 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:21.600 Is he gonna be better defensively? 01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:26.880 I mean, how many of his errors were throwing errors versus fielding errors, and what will his range be? 01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:31.600 Um, but the fact is, you know, if healthy, he could hit 30 bombs. 01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:39.199 So do you sacrifice defense or do you move him and just hope he gets better defensively? 01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:41.840 And uh yeah, okay, yeah, benefit of the doubt. 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:56.319 Um you we saw him strap on some kind of back support uh in the dugout between innings, and then that doesn't bode well for a major league shortstop, that he's got a bad back because bad backs tend to linger. 01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:04.399 And if he's got that bad back next year, man, they got to talk right away about doing something other than letting him play shortstop every day. 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.000 The place where we'll I'll end Shay. 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:11.520 Because I was debating if we were gonna talk about some of the good in this year. 01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:13.119 I was like, nah, not after a season like this. 01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.439 There was a couple good things, nah, we don't have to. 01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:17.439 This is this is not the type of positivity. 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:21.119 The Kruko section was our positivity section, but I want to stay up the middle. 01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:26.319 You got second base, you got shortstop, those are your infield up the middle positions. 01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:29.039 In the outfield, you got center field. 01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:38.640 And there is a certain center fielder with an injured left foot who is still under contract for 2027. 01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:41.680 I don't know if he's getting paid yet, but that's Harrison Bader. 01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:45.680 John, do we see Harrison Bader in the Giants uniform next year? 01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:46.319 No. 01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:49.439 I think if they have to buy him out, they'll they'll buy him out. 01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:53.680 I I don't think um they they want him around. 01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:57.119 Um bad example for young guys. 01:12:57.359 --> 01:12:59.600 Uh don't do what I do, right? 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:05.439 Don't follow me uh along the marina and and ram my scooter into a fire truck at two in the morning. 01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:06.239 Don't do that. 01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:21.439 Well, it if I put it this way the maturation process of Drew Gilbert was um kind of accelerated with without the presence of Harrison Bader. 01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:23.359 Whether they're tied together, I don't know. 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:32.239 But we saw kind of an immature Drew Gilbert last year, toward the end, kind of a college kid who thought that he was going to bring all this energy and turn the franchise around. 01:13:32.479 --> 01:13:38.319 To um even early season, you're talking about the celebration with the three outfielders. 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:40.000 That that was kind of weak. 01:13:40.159 --> 01:13:51.920 Um, you know, it's kind of funny on the internet for a day or two, but uh, you know, the criticism around professional major league baseball players was not was it was not positive. 01:13:52.239 --> 01:14:00.640 So I think he learned or at least was talked to and because he he hung around Bader quite a bit last year in in spring training. 01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:02.319 And we'll see. 01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:17.760 But I think uh if they if they don't use the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement to equate a scooter with a motorcycle, because in the CBA it says you cannot ride motorcycles, and if you get hurt, your contract could be void. 01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:19.600 Just that's asked Jeff Kent. 01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:23.279 Kent was too good to void his contract, they needed Jeff Kent. 01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:27.279 So um, you know, with the with the wrist in the motorcycle. 01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:29.119 Oh, wait, no, I forgot I'm wrong on that. 01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.119 He was washing his truck, he's washing his truck, Shay. 01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:32.399 I don't know what you're talking about. 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:38.800 So so anyway, uh, we've seen a different Drew Gilbert, and I I see him platooning in center field. 01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:53.279 You probably feel the same way with Jonah Cox next season because Jonah runs like nobody they've had in years, and he can steal a bag, and suddenly the Giants weren't last in steals anymore, you know, largely because of him and some others. 01:14:53.439 --> 01:15:06.239 So they had the green light, and that it was a more exciting brand of baseball with the younger guys while all the older guys were either on the injured list or uh being investigated because of a late night uh incident. 01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:10.800 So I I don't think you don't you don't see him next year in San Francisco, do you? 01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:12.239 I don't. 01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:18.880 Whether it's and you kind of hit the nail on the head there, whether it's a a buyout, a trade, a DFA altogether, whatever it is. 01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:29.119 It's just with the season being where it is, and like the context of how it happened too, like he was supposed to get on a flight to Indianapolis the next morning. 01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:37.039 And even if he didn't crash a scooter, it's he would have still been running on like what four hours of sleep before making a cross-country flight. 01:15:37.119 --> 01:15:40.880 And like, yeah, he does he's not playing, but

still, like that's that's not ideal. 01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:46.960 So I think all the circumstances and and how it happened, um, we never heard from him either. 01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:48.479 Like, there was no apology. 01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:50.079 Like, did I miss like that? 01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:51.039 I didn't miss that, right? 01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:52.319 Like, there was no apology. 01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:55.119 We haven't we haven't seen him since he got injured. 01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:58.720 So there were there was no facing of the music either. 01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.279 No, no public apology. 01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:16.000 So I just think given that, given that Gilbert and Cox has the making of a fine platoon in center field, um, you can kind of figure out left field from there, whether you want to go Meyer at second Schmidt and left or Schmidt and second Bo Davidson and left, whatever you want to do there. 01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:18.000 They got a lot of outfielders. 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:21.039 I I just don't envision, you know. 01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:27.920 Given given what we do know about Posey, I I don't think we see him again in a Giants uniform. 01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:29.439 But he has to say all the right things. 01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:31.600 He has to say there's nothing which we could say. 01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:34.880 Like he like Posey was never gonna outright say like this bozo's done. 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:35.760 Like he couldn't say that. 01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:36.079 Okay. 01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:40.560 There still is an investigation uh ongoing with Harrison Bader. 01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:49.520 Shea, before we get out of here, any final thoughts on the press conference, the 2026 season, or anything else you would like to share? 01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:54.239 The Giants team and the Giants Clubhouse belongs to Bryce Eldridge next year. 01:16:54.560 --> 01:17:01.520 Matt Chapman, Williad Damas, okay, they're leaders, maybe in their day, but their time has come. 01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:03.680 Uh people love Chapman. 01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:05.680 Logan Webb loves Chapman. 01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:08.640 And Rafi doesn't want any party leadership. 01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:14.960 At least he'll say so, though he provided some to some of these younger guys in the final weeks before he went out. 01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:26.720 But you got to give this clubhouse to the young guys because if you want to turn this roster over, if you want to improve by 2028, 2029, Bryce Eldridge is so good, so eloquent. 01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:29.039 He'll talk to you about anything. 01:17:29.199 --> 01:17:32.159 He's he's an assistant player rep, for goodness sake. 01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:36.720 No 21-year-old wants that gig, especially going into a labor strife. 01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:39.359 So he wants to be the guy. 01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:43.359 Like Will Clark back in the 80s, wanted to be the guy. 01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:54.399 And Bryce Eldridge, more than any giant I've seen since Will Clark at that age, has the maturity and the talent to pull it off and to be the guy. 01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:56.560 So let's just forget everything else. 01:17:56.720 --> 01:18:02.720 Let's give this clubhouse to Bryce Eldridge and usher in the new era with that guy running the show. 01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:04.479 Will Clark was the guy. 01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:06.079 Bryce Eldridge wants to be the guy. 01:18:06.159 --> 01:18:10.319 And John Shea, you've been the guy in San Francisco for quite some time. 01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:12.239 John Shea, where can we find your work? 01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:17.520 Uh sfstandard.com and social media. 01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:23.680 I don't have the podcast like you do, although Carrie Crowley has podcast section 415. 01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:29.119 The great Carrie Crowley, who kind of stepped away from his weekend gig at KNBR. 01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:32.239 Um, former San Jose Mercury beat writer. 01:18:32.399 --> 01:18:35.840 You've followed in his footsteps uh very nicely. 01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:38.319 And um, hey, he's my boss. 01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:39.520 I love the guy. 01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:43.760 And he's he's great, he's a multimedia superstar. 01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:48.159 And Bill Lasky had a little farewell tribute to him last weekend. 01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:55.840 I don't think Kerry wanted any part of that, but uh, you know, you'll see still hear him filling in weekdays at CanBR. 01:18:55.920 --> 01:19:06.239 So he's not retired from the airwaves by any means, but he just you know recently married and wants to hang out, be a family guy, and good for him. 01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:08.399 So yeah, man. 01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:11.359 Um good year hanging out. 01:19:11.520 --> 01:19:17.760 We we laughed a lot at uh what we saw and we shook our head a lot over what we saw. 01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:21.359 But uh like I said, man, they ain't gonna lose 97. 01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:23.279 There's no way they could be worse. 01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:27.920 I mean, they had to lose, they had to lose five in a row to get to 97. 01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:33.439 You mentioned what is it, the third or fourth worst winning percentage or most losses in Samurai. 01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:41.199 I think it's the fifth most losses in the entirety of the franchise, going back 144 years to the 1880s. 01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:45.039 Granted, they played fewer games, but still 97 losses, man. 01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:47.439 Come on, you got to get better than that. 01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:52.800 Well, again, Shay, I'm gonna defer to the artist formerly known as Common. 01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:58.640 Why they say never say never when they know that ain't right, because to say never say never, you done said never twice. 01:19:58.720 --> 01:19:59.920 And I got a hat over there. 01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.680 It's my Kansas City Monarchs hat. 01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:08.800 Whenever I wear it, if I ever see Carrie, I say they think this stands for the Kansas City Monarchs, but really stands for Carrie Crowley. 01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:09.920 KC, baby. 01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:11.039 KC baby. 01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:14.319 John Shea, Jessus De Los Santos, Splash Consideration Podcast. 01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:17.520 We really appreciate y'all for tuning in throughout the duration of the season. 01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:20.079 We will have more for y'all over the course of the offseason. 01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:23.680 But until then, we will catch y'all in the next one.