התמלול המלא של TALK 916 - GForce Matrix 12 And more

00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:21,000 And we're going to be looking at early music concrete, Pierre Chaffeur kind of ideas. 56 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And we're going to just explore. And then each session is going to have a different kind of theme. 57 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,000 We've got Berlin School and various other things kind of lined up. 58 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Hauntology. Each one is like a themed sort of session. It's very, very beautiful. 59 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,000 What a great idea. Yeah, thanks. It's going to be great. It's going to be free 24th of November. 60 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,000 That's a Tuesday night. Really, really small capacity. 61 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:51,000 So, you know, we're probably going to ticket it, even though it's free, just to kind of make sure. 62 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Yeah, so you know what's coming. Oh, I might try and get along to that. 63 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000 Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. Your video is frozen. I'm just telling you now. 64 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,000 OK, hang on. And I'm going to throw this out to the room. 65 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Obviously, you're doing sessions for a brewery and there's lots of session IPAs. 66 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:16,000 I mean, they've got to be introducing some sort of named beer to to go along with some of your sessions. 67 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Surely, surely there's got to be a tie in there somewhere. Right. 68 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:25,000 Oh, OK. I mean, Arbor have got a very big range as well. I'll have to look through. That's a good idea. Session. 69 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000 But yeah, we recommend this beer to go with this type of music. 70 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:39,000 Yeah. And then the other thing, very briefly, just about I'm appearing with Zorch, like I mentioned last week as Zorch. 71 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,000 And then I've created a page on my website about the history of Zorch. 72 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:49,000 And I've got new brand new interviews with the members as well. That's on that page. 73 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,000 And there we go. I got it. Britain's first all synth band. 74 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:02,000 And I like defy anyone to actually disprove that people have said, oh, maybe it's like Peter Zinoffy and Delia Derbyshire. 75 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:08,000 But they weren't actually playing like since they was since involved. 76 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:14,000 But Zorch, I think I've got a good claim to being Britain's first. 77 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:22,000 The only band to ever record at the EMS studio has as things incredible picture there of the studio. 78 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000 But there's yeah, there's there's links to Zorch's music. 79 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:31,000 And yeah, as I say, and Guio's Epics, one of the members and Basil Brooks. 80 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:39,000 But Guio's Epics is our dearly beloved Howard Scarr. I might mention that on the site. 81 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:48,000 I haven't actually yet. But Howard, obviously, long term Sonic State listener and wonderful sound designer. 82 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:55,000 I might still have the tumbleweed sample here somewhere, but I can't. 83 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,000 But yeah, to have a little guest appearance with them is such an honor for me. 84 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:06,000 So I'm so I'm really thrilled. Hence, I'd love it if people could have a little read on my website of the story. 85 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Because I think it needs to be posted. Thank you so much. 86 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 I think the story is really, really interesting. 87 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,000 And yeah, I think it's a little slice of British synth history, really. 88 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,000 A little little kind of maybe needs a little bit more from, you know, putting it out there. 89 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,000 I just have to say the ever excellent cheapo card company is going for. 90 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:37,000 But what about the Vera Lynn drum as the earliest, which is absolutely cracking. 91 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,000 It's just terrible, but also good in a way. Well done. 92 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,000 OK, so anyway, thank you, guys, for that update. 93 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:51,000 And of course, did a drum roll, please. Here we have Dave Spears back again after a little while. 94 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:57,000 Quite some time. And Graham, who together are part of G4 software representatives for this show. 95 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000 How are you, Dave? It's a big question. I realize. 96 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,000 Yeah. Yeah. I'm all right. Yeah. Just getting over a cold, which is annoying. 97 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,000 Oh, but other than that. Yeah. No, I'm good. I'm all right. Yeah. Thank you. 98 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Yeah. It's amazing. It's like this is proper old school now. 99 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,000 We're just kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this this is like. 100 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,000 Yeah. Many years ago. And of course, we've got Graham there. 101 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:29,000 No, no. I'm just coming on to you, Graham. So, Graham, you're the one of, I guess, 102 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,000 one of or the guy behind the new G4 software release, which is obviously Matrix. 103 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,000 Is that is that your your role in this particular setup? 104 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Yeah, I designed from a software point of view, Matrix 12, 105 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,000 you know, with with help from the team and the input from Dave and Marcus and such. 106 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,000 Excellent. And I went, please come on, because I don't know very much about it. 107 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:03,000 Talk about the hardware. I tried to persuade Dave to come back on the show as I get back on. 108 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:10,000 So here I am. OK, well, thank you, Graham, because I've

tried to, but he won't listen to me. 109 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:16,000 So it's taken me a couple of years. Well done. Well done. Well, it's worth it. 110 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,000 So we'll go to the four up for that one. So, yeah, we've got a number of things to talk about, 111 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,000 one of which will obviously be Matrix 12 released because it's out this well. 112 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:32,000 Was it this week or has it been a little bit longer? I feel like I've not been sort of listening to anything for ages. 113 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,000 Thursday. OK, so last week I was still in the sort of just back from China. 114 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:43,000 Oh, is that rich? Are you are you playing a bit of twelve background? Excellent. 115 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:51,000 OK, well, I'm the role of rich on the rolling who are sadly now defunct, which is, yeah, I guess no surprise. 116 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,000 But a bit disappointing, obviously, again, I suppose. Yeah, you never know. 117 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:00,000 Might be able to rekindle the fully. That's not what. Yeah, well, Paul, it really poorly, I suppose. 118 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:08,000 As in P.O.R.L.Y. Rich is your only working. OK, not fully. 119 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:16,000 And I there is a there is an empty promise burning a hole in one of my email folders from them. 120 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:23,000 So I do have another one over there. You see, I did realise that I should have at least two of them because I want to keep playing them. 121 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,000 This one does work in almost every way that I need it to. 122 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,000 The failures are not in places that I tend to go very often on that instrument. 123 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:41,000 But there's a B flat. No, it's actually on the Y axis. 124 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:48,000 It's actually on the Y axis, not the X axis. So I only do so much on the Y axis anyway. 125 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Most of it, I don't know, can be done anywhere. Well, fair enough. 126 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Well, I'm glad to hear. I'm glad to hear that there is a workaround. That's that's fantastic. 127 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Let's see. Well, we could. Well, why don't we start with the aforementioned G4 software? 128 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,000 I'm going to play this. This has got a bit of an intro from excellent video intro from Alex Ball. 129 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,000 And I know he does a lot of your stuff, Dave. So we'll just kind of open the topic with this one. 130 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:26,000 And here we go. So 80s. 131 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:37,000 The Oberheim Matrix 12 is the synth we've been asked for more than any other, and we're proud to announce that it's here. 132 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,000 The Matrix 12 was the most elaborate synthesizer Oberheim ever made. 133 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000 Born out of the Obie Expander prototype and the production Expander. 134 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,000 This digitally controlled analog synth was launched in 1985. 135 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,000 OK, I'm not going to play the whole thing. People will watch the whole thing. 136 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 You know, that's fine. But congratulations, David Graham, on the launch. 137 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000 It looks like a great instrument to do. 138 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,000 I mean, you've been very much on the Oberheim tip for the last several releases, I guess. 139 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Obviously your own your own instruments as well. 140 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000 What? Why the Matrix? 141 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Is it, David, you just got like a penchant for complicated, multi timbral devices that are really hard control. 142 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:24,000 I mean, this one notoriously had an underpowered, shall we say, MIDI processing engine. 143 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,000 So it was a little bit kind of difficult to operate in terms of real time. Right. 144 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, from my perspective, blimey. 145 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:46,000 I know Chris used the Matrix 12 on a Keith Emerson tour and he said it was one of those instruments that you kind of went to learn it because there's a lot of menu diving. 146 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,000 And then all of a sudden, you know, you could walk away from it for a couple of days and come back and go, oh, shit, how did this work again? 147 00:14:53,000 --> 00:15:02,000 So I bought I bought an expander years and years ago personally, but it was just after we bought the OB eight. 148 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,000 And I so love that kind of hands on tactile thing. 149 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:12,000 I bought the expander really for the kind of filter modes and because everyone had been saying, oh, it's amazing. Amazing. 150 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,000 But I found it kind of slightly impenetrable. I'm not. 151 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:26,000 It was great, but it wasn't massively inspiring. And that was really because of the architecture, I guess, you know, the menu diving. 152 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:38,000 So in the end, I swapped it for a camera. 153 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Yeah, but I don't use it much. It was the old Canon 7D. But yeah, it was a really bad mistake. 154 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:59,000 And then when we were talking with Marcus Ryle about the whole Oberheim kind of lineage and stuff and obviously the Matrix 12 was the last instrument that Marcus did before he left Oberheim. 155 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,000 And as soon as Marcus said, well, his aim was to create a polyphonic module, I was like, oh, I kind of get it. 156 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:14,000 And then I had to go and buy another one. And that was the kind of start of this kind of weird relationship with it. 157 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000 And then to me, it was still sort of semi impenetrable. 158

00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,000 There's a really brilliant video of one of the guys doing all the programming in the 80s. 159 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,000 It's very 80s. And I kind of delved into that a little bit. 160 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000 I was like, it's still fairly impenetrable. 161 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:35,000 And obviously we can do software and we don't have to kind of stick to that old school paradigm. 162 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 And that's where Graham came in. 163 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Yeah, I was going to ask Graham. Well, no, fair enough. 164 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:49,000 I was going to ask Graham, I mean, when you're working with Dave and obviously there's these kind of things, I think we're going to do this. 165 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000 And then you see it's got 15 separate filter types. 166 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,000 Does that make your, does that excite you or make your heart sink, shall we say? 167 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:06,000 I think in the case of this, we actually, originally we designed the Expander. 168 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:13,000 So in the case of this, it wasn't presented like we're going to do this, Graham, work it out. 169 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,000 We had the unit at the studio and I just asked if I could take it home. 170 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,000 So I sort of had this idea. 171 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:31,000 So I kind of riffed on an idea without it essentially being, you must achieve this by that goal. 172 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,000 Once there's an idea down of how we break it out from this. 173 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,000 I think of The Matrix 12 like a monster trapped in a box with like six knobs and 12 buttons. 174 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,000 It's 12 modular sims. 175 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Voices, yeah. 176 00:17:49,000 --> 00:18:00,000 Like, if you think of like a Moog 55, like in a room and then just get 12 of them, stick them on one keyboard and ask people to use it with six knobs and 12 buttons. 177 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,000 And that's basically your only way of getting into it. 178 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000 And a character display. 179 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000 Yeah, a VFD display and stuff. 180 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:16,000 Once I had the initial idea to break it out, that was done with kind of no pressure to make it a product, which I think is always good. 181 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:24,000 We then spoke to Marcus who encouraged us to go for The Matrix 12 instead of Expander and had his input. 182 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000 And yeah, loads of customers asked for it. 183 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:36,000 Once we started working with Oberheim officially, we just had constant requests for The Matrix 12 slash Expander. 184 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,000 It's interesting, isn't it? 185 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000 I mean, it sounds absolutely great. 186 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:45,000 I mean, and looking at it, I mean, it's a bonkers amount of spec to it with all the 12 outputs. 187 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:54,000 Like you say, with the software, you can kind of make it easier to kind of achieve those things which were previously hidden, shall we say. 188 00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:04,000 I remember when I first saw it, it was one of those synths that I thought, oh yeah, that's a synth I'd like to aspire to, like the Prophet 10 was as well, because it just looks so cool. 189 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,000 But then I also heard that it was a bit of a difficult thing to use. 190 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,000 Rich, I know you were testing this. 191 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,000 I mean, did you have any experience of the actual hardware itself beforehand? 192 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000 I guess it must have come across. 193 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:23,000 I was actually working with someone who got one pretty much on release, a full Matrix 12. 194 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,000 So I was around it, yeah. 195 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:51,000 And in my historical perspective, this was a revolutionary instrument at its time because previous to and during the time that this thing got released, we were basically operating still on the Minimoog signal path principle where you had oscillators here, a mixer, one or more filters over here, a couple of envelope generators, maybe an LFO or two. 196 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000 And that's what you had. 197 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:03,000 And this was something that was kind of revolutionary in the way that it was breaking free of that and beginning to offer multiple modulation possibilities. 198 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:14,000 And I guess I can see now in hindsight why that was viewed at the time by those people as being modular-like, because that was the place you could do that at the time. 199 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:24,000 And so this was a revolutionary product in its context because there was nothing that offered all of these kinds of capabilities and these possibilities. 200 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:32,000 And so it achieved this kind of very expensive and heavy gravitas because it was a big, unwieldy kind of thing. 201 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Yeah, it must have been really expensive because of all the electronics. 202 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000 It was heavy. 203 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,000 And it was expensive. 204 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000 It was somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000, I think. 205 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 It doesn't seem too bad. 206 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000 But that was the high end. 207 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,000 That's what you could get. 208 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000 I mean, the CS80 was somewhere in there. 209 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000 You know what I mean? 210 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,000 That was what you could get at the high end for synthesizers in those days. 211 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:57,000 So in the time that it appeared, it was an absolutely revolutionary product. 212 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,000 And

in hindsight, it's a fancy Minimoog to me on some level. 213 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,000 I mean, it has so much more than a Minimoog, and I understand that. 214 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,000 But it's essentially stepping up from the Minimoog signal path into, all right, now let's offer modulations. 215 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:19,000 Now we have products that offer modulations in a gillion different ways now, in software in particular. 216 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:26,000 But this is a fantastic sounding and really fun to operate piece of software for me, and I really enjoy it. 217 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,000 And you guys did a great job. 218 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000 Nice. 219 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:42,000 I think the Expander was answering a very specific call of how do I not have to take six synths on tour with me, right? 220 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,000 So it's not a synth that you sort of ride the knobs of and perform the front panel of. 221 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000 You set your show up. 222 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,000 And the Matrix-12 had a keyboard on it, so it was a bit more oriented towards a player. 223 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:00,000 But Expander was serving that purpose. 224 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:08,000 And answering the Jupiter-8 thing, because the Jupiter-8 stole the entire utility of live where you could have two synths and it looked big as well. 225 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:18,000 But ultimately, I still say that the reason the Jupiter-8 was so massive is because it was used by bands that needed two synths and only wanted one keyboard. 226 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:29,000 So all of us mortals who weren't into synths but just had our pinups, it became a pinup synth because it was associated with those bands for its utility rather than its sound. 227 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000 I'm going to duck for cover now. 228 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,000 Dave, you look shocked. 229 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000 No, I mean, we've talked about this, haven't we? 230 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,000 Because you say you prefer the Jupiter-6, isn't it? 231 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Yeah. 232 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000 I mean, there's certainly features on there that's… 233 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,000 Yeah, I mean, I like the JP-8. 234 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:54,000 I mean, for me, the JP-8 was one of the first super reliable, roadworthy polysynths. 235 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Right. 236 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 You could take it out and it just didn't break down. 237 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,000 It just didn't. 238 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000 I don't think… I mean, we've got one. 239 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Yeah, we've definitely got one. 240 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,000 Minimum of one. 241 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,000 Actually, we've got two Jupiter-6s. 242 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000 That's a bit bad. 243 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000 But it's never gone wrong. 244 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000 It's just never

gone wrong. 245 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,000 And it looked good. 246 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000 I love those old brushed steel in cheeks. 247 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Fair. 248 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000 Yeah, fair enough. 249 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000 Fair enough. 250 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000 Gaz, did you ever have your hands… 251 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,000 I've never had my hands on one of those, mate, at Oberheim's. 252 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,000 Well, my first encounter was with the Matrix-1000, 253 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:33,000 and I just thought it was just the most ugly and uninteresting-looking synth I'd ever seen, I think. 254 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000 That's true. 255 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,000 And I didn't realize, because the studio that I used to do stuff in in the early 90s, 256 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,000 and they had one there, and I just kind of overlooked it, 257 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:49,000 because I was just so into, you know, hands-on things, 258 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,000 and this was like the anathema to that. 259 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,000 However, you know… 260 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000 None of the benefits of analog with an analog engine, yeah. 261 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000 Yeah. 262 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Yeah, so… 263 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,000 But, you know, then you kind of realize, you hear it, and you go, 264 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:12,000 wow, okay, there is that thing that Oberheim has got that is just… 265 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:18,000 it's just a beautiful, beautiful musicality of everything. 266 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000 You know, it's just a beautiful sound. 267 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,000 And from what I've heard of this, it sounds like it's got that. 268 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,000 But, I mean, but other than that, I've got nothing to say, 269 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000 because I'm not really interested in things anymore. 270 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000 Okay. 271 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Anything. 272 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,000 Wow, how nice. 273 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000 I did want to say, Graham, I think… 274 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Dave, you need to take note of this. 275 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,000 Graham said, it's a monster in a box. 276 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000 I mean, there's your marketing tagline right there. 277 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,000 I mean, I didn't see that in any of the literature. 278 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,000 I think that's quite a good one. 279 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Yeah, yeah. 280 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,000 What do you have to say there, Graham? 281 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,000 Well said. 282 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Yeah. 283 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Well, we broke the box a bit. 284 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 That was a fundamental task, because when we're making the software version, 285 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:07,000 obviously we want to provide people more access to what was inside the box. 286 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,000 What's the hardest thing? 287 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,000 What's the hardest thing to emulate in this? 288 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000 Because, obviously, if you're taking, you know, 289 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000 you start with a single voice structure, and then, obviously, 290 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000 you can replicate, and then the interactions between. 291 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000 What's the hardest part of that to get right? 292 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000 You know, the flow. 293 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Is it the filters? 294 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000 Is it the amplification? 295 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,000 You know, is it the VCA? 296 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,000 Is it the VCO? 297 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000 What's the hardest bit? 298 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,000 I think that's a question I need to ask Remy, who coded it. 299 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Obviously, there's a lot of things, 300 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,000 and the way the FM works inside Matrix 12, as I know, 301 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000 that was particularly tricky. 302 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,000 Matrix got 15 filter modes, which is 15 more than we normally have to handle. 303 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000 No, 14 more than we normally have to handle. 304 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,000 Yeah. 305 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,000 And then, yeah, just managing the scope of it 306 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,000 and how we display it in one place on one screen. 307 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,000 Yeah, that's tricky. 308 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,000 And you've gone for a tabbed approach, 309 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,000 which I think is a really good idea, actually. 310 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,000 And it's, in a way, quite similar ideas from the two-voice or the full. 311 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000 I forget which one of the Oberheims you did, 312 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000 where you can make one full screen, and then you can just copy stuff between. 313 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,000 So if you get a great sound, copy it to the next three outputs 314 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000 or three or four voices, and then maybe change different ones. 315 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,000 I mean, that sort of stuff makes it a lot easier to navigate that sort of thing, 316 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000 doesn't it, because there's a lot of… 317 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000 I mean, otherwise, it's a lot of fiddling about. 318 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,000 It's a lot. 319 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,000 I mean, that's from OBE, the eight-voice, 320 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,000 which we sort of re-borrowed some of those tricks that were very successful for OBE. 321 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,000 So, yeah, you can copy and paste the voices 322 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,000 and group them and edit them in chunks and things like that, 323 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000 which I guess

Dave designed originally on OBE. 324 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:58,000 So all of those UX tools will make it more accessible. 325 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,000 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 326 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,000 Nice. 327 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,000 Well, if anyone's… 328 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,000 I left a pause there for Dave to step in. 329 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:12,000 He hasn't got anything further to say, so we can move on. 330 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000 There is also a delay in our communication, so the timing… 331 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 There we go. 332 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000 Sliding out of the topic there. 333 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000 Thank you very much, mate. 334 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:56,000 I guess I should play an ad, so let's do one. 335 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,000 And we're back. 336 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000 So let's think. 337 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000 What should we go to next? 338 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000 I guess we must have some live users amongst us here as well, 339 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:09,000 because, I mean, the Ableton Live 13 beta came out this Monday, 340 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,000 which we had Tom Glen Denning, a.k.a. Elephant, here showing us it. 341 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,000 And I have to say, some really good ideas, 342 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000 particularly with the sequencing, I thought. 343 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000 I don't know what you thought about that, Gaz, 344 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,000 if you've got a chance to see it. 345 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,000 Some really hardware sequencing sort of features inside the software, 346 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,000 which is just a really interesting way of visualising it, I thought. 347 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,000 Yeah, and, I mean, you know, this is like an actual, yeah, 13 version, 348 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000 and Ableton… 349 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000 It's a point release, yeah. 350 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:46,000 It's a, you know, they've always been quite cautious to move the number up, 351 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,000 as opposed to other software, which might do that on a yearly basis. 352 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000 So it's quite a big event in the music tech sphere. 353 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,000 And so I was really interested to kind of look, 354 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,000 because I've been a user of Ableton since version 1, 355 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,000 and I've always been really impressed how they've managed to kind of maintain 356 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000 more or less the same visual aesthetic throughout all the iterations. 357 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,000 You know, it's really – they don't really change enormous things, 358 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,000 but they just add these, you know, wonderful extra dimensions to it. 359 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,000 So, for instance, the sequencer is great. 360 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,000 I know Cubase has had something

similar for a few iterations now as well. 361 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,000 And I always find it quite interesting, this back and forward between software 362 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,000 and hardware, where both influence each other, 363 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,000 and you kind of see – you see that going back and forward quite a bit, 364 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000 and this is another good example of that. 365 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:47,000 So Ableton, obviously, a big part of their appeal is this uncluttered, 366 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:55,000 very clean, very purposeful kind of design language that they use. 367 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,000 And, like, they managed to get everything into this. 368 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,000 Like, for instance, the context menus is another good example where – 369 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,000 and also the – I think something that perhaps should have been in it a long time 370 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:18,000 is the stack of devices now appearing as a list where you can turn them on and off. 371 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,000 Yes. 372 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Because you could end up with a really long strip at the bottom that you're kind of 373 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000 panning through to get to the various elements. 374 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,000 Exactly. 375 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:34,000 So this feels very much in – you know, this new addition, and also the kind of – 376 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:41,000 yes, the context menus where everything has a kind of – they had something like that a while ago, 377 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:47,000 but this is, you know, where you could click on, like, the preset browser 378 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000 and you would get, like, a specific linked – 379 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,000 Yes. 380 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:59,000 But this takes it much to another level now where you can get all of the relevant context menus 381 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,000 to do with the specific devices that you're working with. 382 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000 Yes, whether it's a MIDI track or an audio track or – 383 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,000 Yes. 384 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,000 And it all fits into the aesthetic and into that kind of beautiful workflow 385 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,000 that they've always kind of maintained. 386 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000 And, you know, fair play. 387 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000 I think it's really good. 388 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:22,000 I think, you know, obviously, you know, things like the new drum engines, you know, 389 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,000 I think we'd seen it before in some Max for Live, but, you know, 390 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,000 that migrating across into the very powerful drum – you know, 391 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,000 being able to use that in a very powerful drum rack, I think, is, you know, 392 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,000 is something people are going to really like. 393 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000 ARA as well. 394 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,000 Now, that's something that I use a lot in Cubase. 395 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000 So seeing that implemented – because that was always a very frustrating thing 396 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:53,000 if you were trying to use Ableton as a proper studio production DAW. 397 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,000 Yeah, you couldn't access that stuff. 398 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,000 Yeah. 399 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,000 And ARA is, for those of you who haven't used it, you know, 400 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,000 that enables you to have things like Melodyne or, in my case, 401 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,000 I'm increasingly using Spectralayers. 402 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,000 I've got Spectralayers Pro, the most recent one, 403 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,000 and you can use that as an ARA plug-in as well. 404 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,000 It's along similar lines to iZotope's RX, like a spectral editor, 405 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,000 but enables you to do some really clever stuff. 406 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000 So being able to bring that in – I mean, 407 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000 I can straightaway see something there that would be quite good. 408 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,000 With Ableton, with Spectralayers, 409 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:37,000 Spectralayers has got the best drum stem splitter that I've seen. 410 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000 So, like, it'll take – if you put, like, a nice stereo drum mix in, 411 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000 or, indeed, if you just – if you stem split and get a drum, 412 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,000 a stereo drum stem from another track… 413 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,000 You can take the individual drums out. 414 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,000 And it'll – yeah, and it'll – but, like, Spectralayers lets that 415 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,000 over, like, seven different types of drum types – toms, hi-hats, 416 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,000 ride cymbals, crash cymbals, kick and snare – split them out like that. 417 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000 So, you know, which goes further than the tools that are in Ableton 418 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000 or Cubase, for that matter. 419 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,000 So the ARA, being able to bring in those really specialist tools, 420 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,000 but have them inside of the workflow so you're not having to run it 421 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000 as a separate sort of plug-in, it's kind of integrated 422 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000 into the workflow, I think is a massive thing. 423 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000 And, obviously, Melodyne – Melodyne, I'd imagine, 424 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,000 is going to be a lot of people's – you know, they'll be whooping 425 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000 for joy about that. 426 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,000 Having Melodyne for doing your kind of vocal pitch work or whatever it is 427 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:43,000 that you do, having that integrated into the Ableton workflow is pretty

– 428 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,000 is pretty special, I think, really. 429 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,000 So, yeah, yeah, I mean, this is a good – I mean, there's a whole bunch 430 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,000 of other things. 431 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,000 But, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's good. 432 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,000 I think, yeah. 433 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:57,000 I think my two favourite things are buttons in the macro. 434 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000 Finally. 435 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000 So you just haven't got those kind of little grey sort of faders, 436 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,000 just there's actually a button with a state because we've toyed 437 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,000 with making racks, and I think that's going to – and also the increased 438 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,000 number of macros as well. 439 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,000 You can have multi-state – before you had a button, but it was just a knob 440 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000 that went 0 or 1 or 0, 1, 2, 3, depending on how many different states 441 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,000 it might have. 442 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,000 So that's really big. 443 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,000 And it's going to be useful for people who want to make their own custom 444 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,000 instrument racks and whatever and sell them and do all of that sort of thing. 445 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,000 Yeah. 446 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,000 That was pretty cool, I thought. 447 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000 I don't know how many other Ableton users there are here. 448 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000 I don't know, Graham, if you're an Ableton user, whether it's something 449 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000 that kind of riches as well. 450 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,000 Some good stuff on the Push 3 as well, I thought, with custom scenes, 451 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000 all that kind of stuff. 452 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,000 Rich, anything that caught your eye? 453 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000 You're muted. 454 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000 Take a drink. 455 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,000 Take a drink. 456 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000 We're proper old school now. 457 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,000 It goes back. 458 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000 Woo-hoo. 459 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,000 In the conversation about the macros, the fact that you could have each macro 460 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,000 stem following a different curve in the way it's being manipulated by the 461 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,000 controller in question was a very, very clever bit. 462 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,000 Adding contextual menus to the entire – basically, 463 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,000 they're trying to make it easier to use, and I get that. 464 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,000 And it is a very, very successful layout and platform. 465 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,000 Tangentially to me, over the course of the history of all of these DAW products, 466 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000 it's interesting to see who leads the pack and who trails the pack at any given 467 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,000 moment in terms of the implementation of specific features. 468 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,000 So let's take ARA, for example. 469 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,000 ARA was introduced, I don't know, probably 10 years ago in some people's 470 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,000 software, and it's taken various other software companies various lengths of 471 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,000 time to get it into theirs because there's always feature creep across. 472 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,000 They're all looking at each other to see what's clever to do, you know, 473 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000 in our next iteration. 474 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:01,000 So oddly for them, they're about the last guys to bring ARA into the fold. 475 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,000 They're even later than Pro Tools, which there should be a T-shirt that just 476 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,000 says, we were even later than Pro Tools. 477 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,000 Because usually Pro Tools is absolutely the last guy on the block to give you 478 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,000 like a MIDI editor. 479 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,000 And then they think they've invented it as well. 480 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,000 Right, of course. 481 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,000 Nobody's ever made a MIDI editor like ours. 482 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,000 Yes, absolutely. 483 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,000 Actually, their MIDI editor is pretty good. 484 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:30,000 But besides that, so in context, yes, this is a very useful set of updates 485 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,000 and features, but to me it's almost a dot. 486 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,000 I know this seems to trivialize what I'm sure they think is a tremendous 487 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,000 amount of work. 488 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,000 But I'm not sure five years later after 12 that this is 13. 489 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,000 It feels like essentially the same program with a lot of UI enhancements 490 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,000 and your ability to get to things that were already there is improved 491 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,000 tremendously. 492 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000 But I didn't see that many things that are there that weren't there before. 493 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,000 And the ones they introduced are pretty damn clever, but I'm not sure their 494 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,000 version iteration five years apart better. 495 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,000 That's fair. 496 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,000 Fair point. 497 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,000 And without trying to trivialize, I'm sure they put a tremendous amount of 498 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,000 work into it. 499 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,000 I'm sure it is. 500 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,000 I mean, Graham, are you an Ableton Live user? 501 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,000 I mean, are you kind of, is there anything in

there that floated your boat 502 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,000 particularly? 503 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:29,000 Yeah, I use all the DAWs, but in a particularly niche way of, you know, 504 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,000 GS4 sims in them. 505 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,000 Use Live a lot. 506 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,000 I quite like the look of the looplets they're calling them, where you can sort 507 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,000 of add different start points or loop points within a single sample, 508 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,000 the different keys. 509 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000 That looks fun. 510 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000 Whether it's a 13, it probably is. 511 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:53,000 I think they are justifying it because of the rebuilding of the browser stuff. 512 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,000 I think all of that kind of enhancement is probably where they're justifying 513 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,000 the 13. 514 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,000 I think that's quite a shift in the way it operates. 515 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,000 Like the actual plugins of Johnson looks fun. 516 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,000 They're always fun. 517 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,000 And yeah, looplets caught my eye. 518 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,000 I've not used it yet myself. 519 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,000 I'll get it tomorrow. 520 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,000 No, me neither. 521 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,000 To be honest, I haven't done anything apart from film videos and edit them 522 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:21,000 and sit on planes for the last three weeks, so I guess that's why. 523 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,000 But I'll check it out at some point. 524 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,000 Beta's available now, I believe, so do check that out. 525 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,000 Just going to take a quick break. 526 00:38:28,000 --> 00:39:29,000 Be back after this short message. 527 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,000 Okay, and we're back. 528 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:36,000 So as I mentioned previously in the intro, I've been at ADC this week, 529 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000 Audio Dev Conference, which I think was a really interesting thing, 530 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,000 and it was sort of different to our regular shows. 531 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,000 We're not going and looking at kind of, I don't know, say, for instance, 532 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,000 a subtractive analog synthesizer. 533 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,000 We're looking at kind of maybe some of the new ideas that are coming into 534 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,000 software and whatnot, and I thought there was some really interesting 535 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,000 and hardware as well. 536 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000 And one in particular, I mean, amongst many interesting conversations I had, 537 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,000 one was with a chap called Dara O'Neill, who had a talk. 538 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000 Because what I did is I went through the talks. 539 00:40:08,000 -->

00:40:11,000 ADC is a really good event, actually, if anyone wants to go next year, 540 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,000 it's worth checking. 541 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000 And I think you can still join now and probably see all the talks that they 542 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,000 filmed because they filmed all of them, so if you're interested in this kind 543 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,000 of stuff. 544 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,000 His talk was on the notion of morph, what if hardware could morph, 545 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,000 and has been doing research into the sort of materials that can do that, 546 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,000 like polymers and alloys and liquids and all kinds of stuff. 547 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000 So I just wanted to riff on this as an idea. 548 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000 I'll play a bit of the video briefly. 549 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,000 Let me see. 550 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,000 This was the one. 551 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,000 Yeah, so this is Dara. 552 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,000 Let me just morph in hardware. 553 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,000 So, Dara, lovely to see you. 554 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000 You were on my hit list of people to talk to. 555 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,000 You haven't done your talk yet, but your talk was really interesting. 556 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,000 You're head of embedded firmware, is that right? 557 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,000 Embedded software, yeah. 558 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,000 Embedded software at Arturia. 559 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,000 And your talk is titled, What If Hardware Could Change Shape, 560 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,000 which immediately piqued my interest, being from one of the larger 561 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,000 manufacturers around. 562 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,000 So what's the thrust of your talk? 563 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,000 Yeah, the point of the talk, it's really around hardware interfaces 564 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000 and what they might look like in the future. 565 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,000 So, you know, our products are constantly evolving, 566 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,000 and even compared to when I started in the industry, 567 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,000 people have more and more firmware updates. 568 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000 You get new features for free, basically. 569 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,000 This is quite, I mean, if you remember, like 20 years ago, 570 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,000 it wasn't the case. 571 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,000 You bought a product and the product was fixed, 572 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,000 and you didn't really get updates. 573 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,000 Well, I mean, I have to say your freak range has led the industry. 574 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,000 Exactly. 575 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,000 It's a mini freak, especially, continuous updates, which is great. 576 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,000 But the physical controls obviously don't change. 577 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,000 And so it's part of, actually, I recently did a master's at the 578 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000 University of Grenoble Alps, just beside Arturia, 579 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,000 and it was around human-computer interaction. 580 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,000 Right. 581 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,000 I encourage you to watch the video. 582 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,000 I mean, I could play the whole thing, but then we'd all be sitting here 583 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,000 not saying anything. 584 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,000 It's just, it's a really interesting concept. 585 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:14,000 So the idea, because we have materials now that can take memory, 586 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,000 and this is off into the future. 587 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,000 But I'm just thinking in terms of, you know, 588 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,000 what you could do with controllers. 589 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,000 It just sort of starts to make you think, 590 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,000 if this technology was to become available sort of soonish and affordable, 591 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,000 what could you use it for? 592 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,000 I'm going to have to go to product people here, 593 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,000 because obviously you guys are in software. 594 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,000 But, you know, you did make a controller once. 595 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,000 I remember that. 596 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,000 I mean, but it would be, you know, we've had for so long, 597 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,000 I think I've got a split. 598 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,000 For so long, you know, getting the right controller is really hard, 599 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000 because it's always, you know, when you do one-to-one, 600 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,000 it's like, okay, well, this control maps to the synth, 601 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000 so therefore it looks a bit like that synth. 602 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,000 But having something that could actually move around 603 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,000 is quite an interesting thought. 604 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,000 But it's a little bit sci-fi, I think. 605 00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,000 I don't know if we're ready for it. 606 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000 I think it would be a bit freaky. 607 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,000 Totally. 608 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,000 I mean, the one thing that, actually, 609 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,000 it was one of mine and Chris's big things, you know, 610 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,000 when we did the Fat Boy a million years ago, you know, 611 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,000 obviously it was, I don't know how many knobs. 612 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,000 It was like 14 knobs or something. 613 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,000 And obviously you mapped it to your software synth, 614 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,000 and it would work. 615 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,000 But there wasn't this one-to-one correlation

616 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,000 to where things were on the screen as to what you were controlling. 617 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000 And whilst it was an amazing thing at the time to have that, 618 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,000 I think it was one of the first MIDI controllers. 619 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,000 Yeah. 620 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:39,000 It definitely, there was an interrupt between the kind of workflow. 621 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,000 And we always wanted this idea of like, oh, 622 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,000 that knob corresponds to that position. 623 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,000 That knob position corresponds to that position on the screen and stuff. 624 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,000 So, yeah, I mean, this is, that would be my first thing. 625 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,000 It would just be like amazing to have a kind of one controller with multi. 626 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,000 I mean, I have no idea how this would even work. 627 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,000 But that would be my first thing, would just be like, oh, my God. 628 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,000 Therefore, there's no interrupt between you. 629 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,000 The creative process just kind of flows because you see that thing 630 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,000 that you want to move on the screen, and you instinctively move to that knob. 631 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000 So we've seen, like, in the past in like CES and stuff, 632 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:22,000 like screens that can pop up like buttons. 633 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000 And I think BMW had something in a car, 634 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000 they wanted to have a tactile screen in a car. 635 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000 So I, maybe it's just my angle, but from a software point of view, 636 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,000 the idea of putting software underneath a screen 637 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,000 and being able to control physical buttons 638 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:44,000 and some sort of interactions where you can touch the screen and it is raised 639 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:50,000 and you can move your hand around to change parameters, that seems powerful. 640 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,000 Do you remember there was that company who did, like, pots that you could put on your... 641 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,000 Stick onto, yeah. 642 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,000 Yeah, what happened to that? 643 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,000 Well, I think probably people lost all the pots that they had. 644 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,000 They fell off the screen. 645 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,000 We covered it, didn't we, in Sonic Touch, didn't we? 646 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,000 I remember. 647 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,000 Didn't you actually, didn't you bring some in, Gaz, 648 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000 and we couldn't get them to work or they only worked a bit or something? 649 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,000 I can't remember. 650 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,000 It wasn't quite the promise of

the literature, shall we say. 651 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,000 Well, you know, it's interesting, isn't it? 652 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,000 Because the iPad, when I was thinking about this, 653 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,000 I was thinking about, like, that MIDI Designer Pro 654 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,000 and a few things like that on the iPad, 655 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,000 sort of being able to be that thing where you can have it be one-for-one. 656 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:44,000 It could map to the location to match what you wanted on the screen 657 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,000 and that kind of thing. 658 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,000 So it was a definite step in the right direction. 659 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,000 And then I was thinking about the embodiment 660 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,000 and just imagining that where it can raise up just, 661 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,000 and it wouldn't have to raise up much, 662 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,000 but, you know, it could just raise up slightly 663 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:08,000 just to give you tactile feelings of where... 664 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,000 Yeah, a surface rather than just a slidey kind of, yeah. 665 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,000 Yeah. 666 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,000 And I can imagine how the technology, that doesn't feel, you know, 667 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,000 something a little bit like with the ROLI technology a little bit, 668 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,000 but it just, you know, it just somehow, 669 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,000 that there's little pockets that kind of inflate with a liquid 670 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,000 that just kind of raise up a little bit. 671 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,000 Pixel... 672 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,000 What could possibly go wrong? 673 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000 My controller, my synthesizer is leaking. 674 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,000 Yes. 675 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,000 Yeah. 676 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,000 Yeah. 677 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,000 Oh, God. 678 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,000 That makes me think of when my Stretch Armstrong split and... 679 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,000 Oh. 680 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,000 ...synthetic stuff. 681 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,000 Sorry, that's going back a bit. 682 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,000 I actually bungee jumped him out of my bedroom window 683 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000 holding onto his arms when he... 684 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,000 Wow. 685 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,000 Congratulations, and he survived. 686 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,000 Only two broken legs. 687 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:05,000 Eventually, we split him over by putting him over the goalposts 688 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,000 and a bunch of people hanging onto legs and arms, 689 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,000 and we split him in half. 690 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,000 Anyway, I digress. 691 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,000 Congratulations. 692 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,000 Thank you. 693 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,000 Gia Bevan told me a while ago about through-the-air haptics, 694 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,000 and that was, I thought, was... 695 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000 And that's kind of a technology that's available, 696 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,000 or, you know, that's happening now, 697 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,000 which feels kind of really sci-fi, 698 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:38,000 being able to kind of actually feel things in the air, you know, 699 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,000 through-air haptic. 700 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,000 I mean, that's just, for me, like, mind-blowing, 701 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,000 but it feels in line with this kind of thing. 702 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,000 And, yeah, so what the prediction is around, sort of, 703 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,000 in around 10 years to 15 years' time... 704 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,000 Wow. 705 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,000 I mean, who knows? 706 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,000 I mean, who knows? 707 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,000 Who knows? 708 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,000 There's no... 709 00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,000 Yeah, right. 710 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,000 But the rate of things... 711 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,000 They're not announcing it at NAMM, put it that way, you know. 712 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,000 Yeah, okay, good point. 713 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,000 But, I mean, in order for this to kind of be practical 714 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,000 and useful to us in our music production, you know, 715 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000 we have to try and actually kind of visualise something. 716 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000 So, you know, if you imagine, like, for instance, 717 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000 maybe Ableton Push 5 or whatever it is, you know, like, 718 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,000 so one of the features we barely touched on, on Ableton, 719 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,000 the new one, you know, on the Push, 720 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,000 is being able to do that thing where you can create custom surfaces 721 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,000 and it uses the MPE, you know, for, like, 722 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,000 you can have, like, a performance mixer. 723 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,000 You tried that, though, didn't you? 724 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,000 Yeah, that was really cool. 725 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000 Yeah, that was pretty cool. 726 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000 So the amount of pressure you could actually, 727 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,000 even though using pads, you could put a fader 728 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,000 and you could kind of actually move that thing. 729 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,000 Because they're positional data on the pads themselves, exactly. 730 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,000 Right. 731 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,000 It's not just one spot, it's, like, the position of the... 732 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,000 Yeah, all of that stuff. 733 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,000 So this, when you

contextualise that kind of thinking 734 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,000 and just, it's, like, almost the next step on, like, as I say, 735 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,000 if there's any way to imagine it, that there is a way to just create... 736 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,000 And as I say, you know, I think you mentioned in that interview 737 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,000 about, like, a joystick sprouting out or something, you know, 738 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,000 and maybe it will get there. 739 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,000 It would be... 740 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,000 Actually, I think it would be closer to a Dell nipple, perhaps, 741 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,000 would be the thing. 742 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:20,000 Right. 743 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,000 So, as with most technology, 744 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,000 you let the porn industry do the kind of legwork on this 745 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,000 and then we get the benefits of it downstream of that. 746 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,000 So... 747 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,000 But, I mean, you know, when you contextualise something 748 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,000 like a push controller and try to think about how this could... 749 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,000 You know, for me, that's how I'm kind of seeing... 750 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. 751 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,000 Yeah, you know, and being able to kind of... 752 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,000 Yeah, I mean, because muscle memory is a really important part of performing. 753 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,000 It's very useful. 754 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,000 I was thinking about this, like, Bastl, a really interesting company, 755 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,000 they make modules, but they also do other things as well 756 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,000 and they use things in a... 757 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,000 They put, like, their controls in strange ways. 758 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,000 If you look at the pizza module, for instance, you know, 759 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,000 you get, like, a kind of a crossfader 760 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,000 and, like, a kind of a diagonal fader and the knobs 761 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,000 and everything is laid out in a particular kind of quirky way. 762 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,000 So, if you rest your hand on it, you don't have to look because... 763 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,000 It makes sense. It makes sense, right. 764 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,000 Yeah, they're all laid out in sort of different ways. 765 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,000 The upcoming Kalimba, which is an astonishing piece of kit from them, 766 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,000 you know, when you hold that, it's... 767 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,000 Actually, the underside of the Kalimba is actually... 768 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,000 Yeah, there's all those sensors in there, yeah. 769 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,000 Yeah, sensors, but also they've shaped it to be like a game controller. 770 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:50,000 So, when you hold it, it's kind of got that ergonomic kind of thing there. 771 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,000 So, just taking those kind of ideas of specific layouts 772 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,000 and ergonomic and physical kind of controls, 773 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,000 people are going to have specific needs. 774 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,000 And, of course, from an accessibility point of view, this has got... 775 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,000 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I was thinking... 776 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,000 My first one was, like, Braille, obviously, really. 777 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,000 Right, exactly. So, there's tons of really positive stuff from this. 778 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,000 It's not just a technology for technology's sake kind of idea, 779 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,000 but really interesting to see how this is going to be... how to play out. 780 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,000 Yeah, one thing that Dara said was the idea of pin... 781 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,000 like pin matrices, you know, those kind of frames that you get 782 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,000 where you push your face into it and you can create a kind of... 783 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,000 a low-resolution sort of render of something by just pushing your hand 784 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,000 into a load of, like, a nail, a bed of nails, effectively. 785 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,000 But each one would have an actuator. 786 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,000 Yeah, actuator on that. 787 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,000 Yeah. In Quasimodal, Greg, the drummer I work with, 788 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,000 he uses them on his different drums. 789 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,000 If you watch some of the videos that we've done, 790 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,000 he puts them on the drum, so as he hits the drumstick, 791 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,000 those pins jump up and then they come down and hit the... 792 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,000 Oh, like a sizzle, sort of almost. 793 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,000 Yeah, it's like a sizzle, but it gives a really kind of interesting 794 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,000 almost electro kind of sound to acoustic drums. 795 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,000 Sorry, that's an aside, but carry on. 796 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,000 Oh, sorry, yeah. So, Rich, I don't know what... 797 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,000 I mean, you've got a futuristic control surface. 798 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,000 I mean, you know, maybe if you put 240 volts through those keys, 799 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:24,000 they might start moving around a bit and you can kind of start experimenting. 800 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,000 Let's hope not. 801 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:33,000 V Collection 38, the blob by Arturia. 802 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,000 Nobody knows what it is because it's different every day. 803 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,000 No, but seriously, the only product I know that even conceptually 804

00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,000 seems to stem from the idea that you should be able to take something 805 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:50,000 that becomes more of a platform that is malleable 806 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:56,000 than something that is fixed in its purpose and in its design. 807 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,000 It's not the same thing with regard to tactile, 808 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:06,000 but the DSP APB-1 boxes where you're using fully analog processing, 809 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000 but you're controlling them digitally from your computer in a recallable fashion, 810 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,000 and you're routing actual analog audio signals through the box. 811 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,000 So, from the standpoint of conceptually trying to create something 812 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,000 like a playground into which you can build other things that work, 813 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,000 that thing does it. 814 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,000 But the idea that it's physically malleable 815 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:32,000 and that it's like modeling clay in some level doesn't cross to that at all. 816 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,000 And so I think... 817 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,000 No, that's true, yeah. 818 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,000 The Arturia blob, I much look forward to seeing that. 819 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,000 That'll be interesting. 820 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,000 I mean, but that does bring up another point. 821 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,000 I did have a chat with some other gentlemen who were from the University of Maynooth, 822 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,000 I think it is in Ireland somewhere, 823 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,000 and they were talking about like a layer that made FPGAs easier to program 824 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:57,000 because they're notoriously difficult or complicated to do. 825 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,000 And this led to another discussion about, you know, 826 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,000 there's lots of talk about vibe coding and firmware hacking 827 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,000 and all of those things, obviously. 828 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,000 But the concept of being able to vibe code and reconfigure an FPGA 829 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,000 if you have one in a synthesizer so it could do different stuff 830 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000 and be different hardware is something that was... 831 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,000 I hadn't really... 832 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,000 Yeah, that's also possible apart from obviously you could break it 833 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,000 because certain pins would be going holding power 834 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,000 and certain pins would be voltage and certain pins would be audio. 835 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,000 I don't know. 836 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,000 It's an interesting thought, though. 837 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:33,000 I don't know, Graeme, if that piques any interest, 838 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,000 the idea of sort of having a reconfigurable FPGA. 839 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,000 I mean, I guess if you hacked your Novation Peak, 840 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,000 you could turn it into, well, a doorstep, obviously, 841 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,000 but you could also maybe turn it into something else 842 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:52,000 because you're rerouting a load of internal gate arrays and whatnot. 843 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,000 Yeah, obviously there's a lot of conversation 844 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:59,000 about vibe-coded firmware updates on lots of hardware units 845 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,000 and it's difficult to know where we stand. 846 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,000 It's certainly not going to go away anytime soon, that's for sure. 847 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,000 No, that's true, yeah. 848 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,000 I think, well, what can we say? 849 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,000 I worry about the quality and the speed in which these things are done, 850 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,000 so I would be reluctant to be digging into expensive hardware 851 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,000 and buy things like this. 852 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000 Yes, well, I totally agree. 853 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,000 I mean, yeah, I'm just thinking when you buy a platform 854 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,000 that's basically an FPGA, 855 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:37,000 however much meterage of morphing physical control surface you can afford 856 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,000 and then you just pour your stuff into it 857 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,000 so that it does whatever it is that you buy the package that it does. 858 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,000 I mean, obviously, you know, you could break everything. 859 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,000 But, yeah, I know, it's fascinating. 860 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,000 Lots of discussions like that 861 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,000 and I believe there are going to be some more announcements. 862 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,000 In fact, I shot a video there with a certain company 863 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,000 who are announcing something tomorrow 864 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,000 and that will be out about 3 o'clock tomorrow afternoon, 865 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,000 so watch out for that. 866 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:05,000 Even though I was using my new camera as a test 867 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:11,000 and I was wrestling with its robotic AI-controlled camera option, 868 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:16,000 so it did make it a little bit less than my best filming job, shall we say. 869 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,000 But, yeah, I know, it's interesting. 870 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000 So, I know we could – 871 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,000 I'm just thinking if we're going to go – 872 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,000 and you've got any further sort of topics to go for, 873 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,000 whether we could wrap things up. 874 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,000 I don't know if you gentlemen have got any more time 875 00:56:27,000

--> 00:56:29,000 or whether you've got anything else you want to plug. 876 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,000 What's the deal with the Matrix at the moment? 877 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,000 Is it on offer until a certain amount of time? 878 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,000 I didn't think to write that down, unfortunately. 879 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,000 Yeah, it's on offer to December 1st. 880 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000 Okay. 881 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:47,000 And that offer is dependent on where you are. 882 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,000 It's the same percentage, but, you know, dollars, euros and pounds. 883 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,000 Yeah, got you. 884 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,000 It's some money off. 885 00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,000 Off the top of my head. 886 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,000 Some money off. 887 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,000 Some money off, yeah. 888 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,000 Some money off until December 1st. 889 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,000 Excellent. 890 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,000 I take it all back about marketing, actually, there, Graeme. 891 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,000 I'm sorry. 892 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,000 I think I misspoke. 893 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,000 Leave it to someone else, shall I? 894 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,000 Okay. 895 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,000 Monster in a box, some money off. 896 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,000 Monster in a box. 897 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:18,000 That's great. 898 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,000 Money off your monster in a box. 899 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,000 I mean, you know, that is – that's a very – 900 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,000 yeah, that's a very compact phrase. 901 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,000 Gaz, what's next for you? 902 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,000 Have you got anything kind of lined up? 903 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,000 Are you streaming or releasing or any of that kind of thing? 904 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,000 Yeah, so, like I said at the top of the show, 24th of November, 905 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:40,000 our first Arbor session on a glass boat with Steve Davis. 906 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,000 Then the 29th is the Great Gong Gathering where I'm guesting with Zorch, 907 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,000 as I mentioned earlier. 908 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,000 Those things are the most pressing, I think. 909 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,000 Is Howard going to be there, Gaz? 910 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,000 Sorry? 911 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,000 Is Howard going to be there? 912 00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,000 Yeah. 913 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,000 Yeah, Howard's playing. 914 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,000 Oh, okay. 915 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,000 Wow. 916 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:06,000 So, Howard and Gaz will – yeah, we're playing on the Friday with System 7, 917 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,000 with the legend that is Steve Hillidge. 918 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,000 Wow. 919 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,000 Wow. 920 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,000 So – and the Great Gong Gathering does look really good. 921 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,000 If you like gong, and gong are such an institution, in my opinion. 922 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,000 This is phenomenal. 923 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,000 It's a three-day event in Glastonbury. 924 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,000 Gong are playing themselves on the Saturday, but here and now on a Sunday. 925 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,000 The Guitar Glissando Orchestra are playing. 926 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,000 Didier Malherbe is playing. 927 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,000 Wow. 928 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,000 What date is this? 929 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,000 What date is this? 930 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,000 This is – is it the 20 – oh, I should know this. 931 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,000 I think it's like the 29th. 932 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,000 Is it November? 933 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,000 It's the – yeah. 934 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,000 So – 935 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,000 29th of November. 936 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,000 I might have to put that in the diary. 937 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,000 That might be a good place to go and hang out. 938 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,000 Yes. 939 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,000 Maybe we can meet up with Tinley as well because he'll be in, obviously, 940 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:54,000 in Glastonbury. 941 00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000 And really, you know, when you look at kind of Zorch 942 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:04,000 and Zorch's kind of history using sort of EMS synthesizers, 943 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:09,000 Basil is going to be actually using the Syntrix rather than an EMS one, 944 00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:14,000 which is quite interesting because I had one of those here recently 945 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,000 with a very similar – very, very similar, 946 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,000 virtually identical kind of workflow, although it sounds quite different, 947 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,000 but is – and I think Howard's mostly going to be doing stuff using the 948 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:31,000 computer, I think, main stage or something for what he's going to be doing. 949 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,000 Yeah. 950 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,000 Makes sense. 951 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:39,000 But I'm still yet to decide what I'm going to do, but so – 952 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:43,000 but I'm really super, super thrilled to be asked to play with those 953 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,000 wonderful gentlemen. 954 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,000 That's going to be – 955 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,000 Yeah, I think it's going to be a – 956 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,000 I'll bring some mushroom tea. 957 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,000 I'll bring some mushroom tea down. 958 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,000 I think it's essential. 959 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,000 I think it's essential. 960 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,000 Mushroom tea and hot knives, yeah. 961 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,000 So – 962 00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,000 And

maybe – yeah. 963 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,000 Yeah, but I mean, there's a load of acts playing across the three days, yeah, 964 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,000 and all, you know, affiliated, and there's such a great – you know, 965 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:13,000 it's that combination of great musicality but also kind of exploratory. 966 01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,000 A bit different. 967 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,000 Yeah, fabulous. 968 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,000 Yeah, nice one. 969 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000 Yeah, thanks. 970 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,000 And, Rich, what's next for you? 971 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,000 You're going on holiday. 972 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,000 How long are you having off? 973 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,000 Just a few days, and then I have a few private gigs with Sheik, 974 01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,000 and then I'm back, and I'll be home through Thanksgiving, 975 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,000 and then in December we're going to briefly go to Japan. 976 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,000 Ah, yes, that's the – yeah, that's the thing. 977 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,000 I've seen that. 978 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:43,000 I missed my chance to go to Japan from China because lots of people were 979 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,000 going from Shanghai over to Tokyo for the Tokyo – 980 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,000 Tokyo Modular. 981 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,000 I don't know exactly what it was. 982 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,000 Tokyo Modular. 983 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,000 Yeah, I didn't get a chance. 984 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,000 Just felt a little trip to Japan, 985 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,000 and also I would have doubled the cost of the trip having to go to Japan, I think, 986 01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,000 just because staying there is so expensive. 987 01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,000 And so, Dave and Graham, I guess, well, for you it must be the end of the day 988 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:06,000 unless you're working 16-hour days, which I hope you're not. 989 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,000 And I guess, what, you just sit back and watch the cash roll in now from the – 990 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,000 excellent relief from the – 991 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,000 of the Matrix 12, right? 992 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,000 Contemplate your new yacht. 993 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,000 Yeah, my second yacht. 994 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:25,000 Or a rubber dinghy. 995 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,000 I don't know. 996 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:27,000 No. 997 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,000 Yes. 998 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,000 We've got lots going on. 999 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,000 Lots and lots and lots. 1000 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,000 Oh, well, that's good to hear. 1001 01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,000 Yeah, things have been up a pace. 1002 01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,000 It's an exciting time. 1003 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,000 Been lovely to have all of you here. 1004 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,000 Feels like old times. 1005 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,000 Don't leave us alone next time. 1006 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,000 Anyway, you've persuaded him to come on, Graham. 1007 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,000 Maybe, you know, maybe we'll do it again. 1008 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,000 You don't have to have the release of product just to come on. 1009 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,000 You can actually be on without having anything to plug. 1010 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,000 So, yeah. 1011 01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,000 That'd be good. 1012 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:51,000 Anyway, thank you very much. 1013 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,000 Yeah. 1014 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,000 Thank you. 1015 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,000 Awesome. 1016 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000 All right. 1017 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,000 Well, that was Sonic Talk episode – oh, it was 916, wasn't it? 1018 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,000 So, yeah, we'll be back next week. 1019 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,000 See you all next time. 1020 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000 Take care, everybody. 1021 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,000 Bye. 1022 01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:55,000 Transcribed by https://otter.ai 1023 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,000 Edited by https://otter.ai