התמלול המלא של College Application Tips from College Essay and Goals Coach Patricia Noonan

run. 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:49.199 And one of my fellow actresses, her daughter, was applying to college, and she knew I was a writer, she knew I was kind of a nerd about story structure, and she kind of said, you know, do you think you could help my daughter, like with this process and with her her story and trying to find that? 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:53.759 And I did and I loved it, and it was a really great experience. 00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:07.360 And then, you know, soon they were recommending me to friends, and then I was helping other people, and then you know, it spiraled from there, and I worked then with a a really cool organization that sadly no longer exists. 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:20.000 Um, you know, didn't make it through COVID, but it was a teaching artist organization that brought arts to students um or enhanced arts education to students all across New York, especially upstate New York. 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:33.759 And I saw an opportunity to develop kind of college essay workshops for kids to like marry my love of art and story with this very real kind of structural thing that all juniors and seniors have to deal with. 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:39.439 And so I learned a lot by doing, and I've been helping students in that way ever since. 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:40.560 How fun. 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:42.240 That sounds really great. 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:54.000 Um, and when you work with students in a workshop setting like that, like about how long is your workshop and how does that, you know, what are what are the kind of the main things you try to hit? 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:59.680 Because I imagine you have to do a much more accelerated version of what you would do in terms of a one-on-one with a student. 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:01.120 Yeah, yeah. 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:02.400 Yeah, great question. 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:18.560 I mean, I think in the workshop setting, like that particular workshop that I've done a lot, I kind of call it more like jumpstart your college essay because it's more about like the intro and getting the ideas going than like rather than you're gonna leave with it done, because it is a process. 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:46.480 So I lead students mostly in that initially through some like brainstorming exercises as a group to kind of get them thinking so that they'll leave with a lot of ideas, and then we um break down like the structure of the personal statement and how to approach that, and then they can start to see maybe some of where the brainstorming they've already done can fit into that structure, and then I introduce the ideas of supplements. 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.240 So it's kind of more of an overview. 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.360 I guess usually it's about you know, two hours. 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.000 Sometimes I've done a little longer if parents want to join in for a QA. 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:16.879 And one fun aspect uh that actually has also gone into my uh performance and leadership coaching with adults is that sometimes students and sorry, adults and teachers will want to take the workshop as well and have these aha moments and kind of start to construct their own personal narratives. 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:21.600 And it kind of hit me like, why are we only doing this when we're 17 and 18? 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.439 You know, why don't we check that like we grow and we change? 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.920 So what are our values later? 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:29.360 Who who are we now? 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.600 Like how what would what would be that personal statement we'd write when we're 30, 40, 50, 60? 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.279 That sounds really fun. 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:37.600 Yeah. 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:49.839 Like even just as like a, you know, they have those corporate team building kind of things and stuff, you know, just to kind of get everybody focused on what their what their priorities are and what their passions are. 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.959 Totally, and all the different ways something can manifest. 00:05:53.120 --> 00:06:00.480 Because, you know, I've done that workshop, say, with a room full of teachers or teaching artists, no, no students, just adults. 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:14.079 And even though everyone in that room is the same noun, ostensibly, teacher, so like why or the values behind the way they show up as a teacher are each unique as unique as every individual there. 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:21.040 So like everyone's fingerprint is so different, and they can all like kind of see that in themselves and also in their colleagues. 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:42.639 And it's a good reminder for college students or students applying to college that even if you think you are, you know, boring or something, because I'm a I want to be a doctor, and so many other people do, I want to be an environmental scientist, and so many other people do, the reasons behind you wanting to do that are as unique as your fingerprint versus anybody else. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:51.199 Right, which is the whole process of like identifying that is like that's kind of the the core of this entire process, anyway, right? 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:54.000 Is how to how to talk about your why. 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:55.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:08.160 If if you if there are like students listening who are just, you know, are at the beginning of the college application process time of year right now. 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:12.160 They're probably gonna finish their AP exams and then be like, oh my gosh, what do I do? 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:18.879 Or um, or parents who are looking to guide their students through their brainstorming processes. 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:20.720 Where would you recommend that they start? 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:26.319 What are the kinds of things that you would tell them to think about when they're just trying to sort out what where to start, even? 00:07:26.639 -->

00:07:27.439 Sure, yeah. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:40.480 I just want to acknowledge how daunting it is because this is a very acute time and moment in your life, and there's a lot that you're juggling with the APs and the tests and junior and senior year. 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:45.199 So, my my best piece of advice first is just to start now. 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.600 You know, this is springtime. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:55.439 Get the lay of the land as soon as possible so that you can kind of start to see what is ahead of you. 00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:07.519 I think, you know, sometimes students understandably the overwhelm trans uh translates into, I don't want to look at this, I don't, I wanna, I'll deal with this this summer, I'll deal with it this fall. 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:15.360 But the sooner you start, even if your college list is in flux, you get a sense of the schools that you're aiming at. 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.920 What are the supplemental essays they have, and starting to see the patterns? 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:30.399 Oh, these two have a community essay, these two have some shared things, and you can get a sense of how much is ahead of you so you can break it down. 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.679 And I think parents can help with that a little bit. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:46.159 Um, I love to have students be in charge of that process, but you know, a parent could have have some fun tag teaming with a student, you know, creating that that college list. 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:54.159 Um and in terms of the brainstorming, uh, I'll give one thing for a parent and one thing for a student. 00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:10.320 I think sometimes um, you know, any time in our lives, but especially when we're 17 and 18, it's hard to see ourselves like what res non-resume values we have that are so unique about ourselves. 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:28.320 So if you're a student, I'd recommend maybe making a list of people that you admire, and then very specific three or four things for each of those people of why you admire them, and then looking for patterns. 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:35.759 So you might really admire Lynn Manuel Miranda because he's creative and innovative. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:44.000 Someone else might admire him because he's ambitious and he's a social activist who gives back to his community. 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.759 Often the things that we admire in someone else are like the things that we actually are. 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:59.360 So when you start to see those patterns emerge in who you admire, that can give you a clue of what those things are you want to write about. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:18.399 And then for parents, I would say it can be a great gift to give your child to sit down and write a list of like you know, five to seven things you see in them that you love about them that their resume or test scores aren't gonna show. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:30.399 Like you love that they're kind, you love that they are uh creative, you love that they are a great collaborator, you love that they are a you know, an experimenter. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:38.879 And maybe, you know, a little detail or two of why you think that or a moment you remember when they did that. 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:40.159 Yeah, yeah. 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:49.600 I think um one thing that parents are amazing for is recognizing the things that we overlook in ourselves, you know. 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:55.840 I think they really like they notice things about us that maybe we take for granted. 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.919 Um, that's just a part for them a part of the joy of being our parents, you know. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.559 I think it's true for even for adults too, you know. 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:16.480 And and I think when I'm talking to a student and and trying to find the things that they might be overlooking, I think the parents are like the best place to go because they've like known you your whole lives. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:47.200 And um, and so they they notice those things that you don't necessarily notice, and also the the activities that should go on your resume that you think are no big deal, but actually are things that you've done that are you know have value, but you just kind of you know, it it's you know, I mean, if I think about me as a teenager, like last week I went over, I have um an elderly neighbor who loves gardening, and I also love gardening at this big vegetable garden. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:59.679 And I have made my I've moved parts of my vegetable garden into the easement in front of my house to share fruits and vegetables with the community, and there are signs up, please take some, you know, because I have so much that I can't eat it all. 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:09.840 And one of and his wife um stopped me and said, you know, my husband's always talking about inviting you to come over and and help him garden because their backyard had gone into disarray. 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:26.960 And so last week I I carved out a couple hours just to go help clean that area up to um to help, you know, move some of my my fruits and vegetables that are getting too big from my yard into theirs, and then you know, we can kind of work together, and that's the kind of thing like most people wouldn't put on a resume. 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:33.279 But if I were applying to college and I were doing this, you know, once a month, I would definitely I should put that on the resume, right? 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:50.000 Like this is a thing that like shows who you are and like what you spend your time doing, even if it's not an organized activity through any, you know, school, club or church or whatever, it's still how you spend your time and what it reveals about who you are and what you care about. 00:12:50.159 --> 00:13:02.639 Um, and I think parents are like really good at identifying those things, or even you know, sometimes noticing like the big impressive thing that the

student did that they didn't think was that big of a deal, you know? 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:08.720 Like that they were at an internship and they created a new initiative and they're like, Oh yeah, no, I just did that. 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:14.879 You know, and the parents are like, no, no, you helped them like create this new part of their business while you were working there. 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:16.799 And they're like, Oh, okay. 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:25.440 And they just totally don't even recognize how how big and cool that is, how much how meaningful like some of the things they do are. 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:39.279 Um you you mentioned um avoidance, uh, which is one of one of the things I wanted to ask you about, or like more, I think, I guess for parents and students alike. 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:45.919 I mean, for parents, it can be helpful to have a heads up about the kinds of behaviors that that might manifest, right? 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:57.360 And also for students, maybe recognizing them and yourself and kind of catching them and figuring out ways that you can respond more productively than what maybe your natural stress response instinct is. 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:07.120 Um, what what are some of the common stress responses that you see from like the overwhelm of this process and and how do you think about them? 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.039 I guess how do you think of that about them as you're coaching students through it? 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:18.080 But then also how would you think about it if you were trying to guide your child, which obviously is a different dynamic. 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:41.759 Um well, in terms of how to how to approach it uh through the process, one thing I try to do towards the beginning of the process is just to get really clear with a student I'm working with, or I I think I would ask my child this, you know, like, what is it that you're excited about in college? 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:49.840 Like what, like let's let's start from the place of like, what is all of this kind of for or that you're excited about? 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:59.120 Because once you get in the weeds, you know, you're writing these essays, you're gathering test scores, you're taking the SATs or ACT, it's very stressful. 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.639 And I have I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:05.440 It's very hard, and it's hard to balance that with school. 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.440 And and I think that, you know, we need to acknowledge that. 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:16.159 And if you have a clear sense of kind of the bigger goal, like I'm doing this so that I can fill in the blank. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:35.840 Like I'm, you know, if you have that vision and you get clear with that with your child of what it is, you know, when you're in moments where it's hard or in the weeds, it's like, oh, we're we're doing this so we can like, you know, go study, you know, ribosomes at Duke or something, you know, it's whatever it is, you know. 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:56.000 Uh and or I'm going so I can like go be in a room full of like the best musicians in X City and you know, hone my skills on the bassoon, or I'm doing this so that I can finally like discuss the books I've been dying to discuss with my peers and ex-professor. 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:09.200 Um I think starting from the the bigger why beyond the process uh and having like that shared knowledge of what it is is is useful. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:29.519 And then with like the stress responses, uh I mean I think shutting down is a big one, which can translate into seemingly like I don't care about this, or um, I don't care, uh this is stupid, um, I don't understand why I have to do this. 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:43.840 And I think uh in terms of how I'd approach that, I think there's a little bit of maybe just listening and acknowledgement in that yes, this is hard, and it is a hard structure. 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:55.840 It's a lot, it's become a process that asks a lot of us or a lot of students when they are already in a very challenging year or two of school. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.720 And currently that is the structure that we are working in. 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:05.279 So, how can we like make this the best for ourselves? 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:21.920 I will reiterate that I think one of the biggest antidotes to the shutdown is getting started because I think the longer you wait and don't open the Pandora's box of how many essays are on the other side waiting for you, the scarier it gets. 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:31.039 And just being able to look at the lay of the land of what's ahead can start to get that overwhelm down. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:39.279 And once you have a little bit of the lay of the land, it can be as simple as what is one tiny thing I can do today? 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:46.480 Maybe that is I ask my parents for five adjectives today of what they see in me. 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:52.160 I research the supplements for one school I know that I want to go to. 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.480 Um, so I think that's that's one. 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.680 Another one is perfection, like the crippling aspects of perfectionism. 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:30.880 Like I can't put anything on the page until I know it's perfect, until I know exactly how it's gonna go, until I am sure this is the best idea possible. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:38.640 And what is so amazing about the technology we have right now is that we can delete so easily. 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:47.440 So I really try to get my students using word, and you can choose whatever you like, like first draft, rough draft. 00:18:47.519 --> 00:19:02.640 I like saying bad version because it immediately gives us permission to write something terrible, like bad version of my idea is this, and write it down because there might be like one sentence worth saving. 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:10.160 So I I like to get in the practice of

introducing vocabulary like bad version as soon as possible. 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:21.599 And for students who like really like the actual writing, the thought of writing, either typing or handwriting, is in itself paralyzing. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:34.000 Um, I think voice memos or like talk uh talk-to-text app of choice can be great, like brainstorming out loud, having something that translates that into text for you. 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:41.519 So you can look at the story you just told or the ideas you just spewed, and then find little gems in that. 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:46.160 It can be a way to get around the dauntingness of a blank page, too. 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.079 Yeah, that's a great idea. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:20:09.039 I know um, you know, I I know those like really fantastic personal statements seem so amaz 'cause they're so pithy and creative and they weave in so many things, and it can feel like impossible when you haven't started yet to get to something like that. 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:16.319 And it's really easy to lose track of the fact that like nobody starts like that. 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:30.400 You know, like everybody's essay just starts from a bunch of things cobbled together, and the more time you give yourself with it to sit on it and you know, pick that one sentence that's really great. 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:40.640 I mean, ultimately with those those kinds of essays, you've whittled down to those one great sentence that you got out of two paragraphs of ideas almost entirely. 00:20:40.799 --> 00:21:08.240 Like that's you know, you kind of you've written probably like four or five times as much as what you ultimately end up with by the time you're done, but it it gets condensed down and rearranged, and new brainstorms like elevate a paragraph with another layer of you know, metaphor or another thing that you realized connects in that you can actually pull in later, and that only happens with time. 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:24.160 So I think you know, the the this is stupid thing that you mentioned, I think is like also an interesting uh response because it's not entirely untrue. 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:42.640 It's it is it's it's a very, you know, it can feel like a very affected process and it's it is kind of most of us who aren't extremely self-congratulatory feel uncomfortable talking about how great we are, right? 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:54.799 And a lot of this is like highlighting the things that are great about you and talking about them and presenting them in a way that somehow is, you know, simultaneously celebratory and humble. 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.759 And, you know, um it just it's a it's a it's a dance that doesn't. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:09.359 Feel very authentic, and yet you'll hear so many people tell you that this should be authentic, that the most important thing is that your application be authentic. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.319 And it is, in fact, like very inauthentic in a lot of ways. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.319 It should feel it should feel honest. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:24.400 But it it's not it's not very natural for a lot of people to kind of talk about themselves in this way. 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:37.519 And it's certainly something that most people haven't done before, especially if you haven't gone through a rigorous application process for anything else, you know, which most people don't go through a rigorous application process until this point in their lives. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:44.559 So it can feel very inauthentic as you're trying to get to that authentic feeling product. 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:46.400 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:57.440 I mean, I think a lot of people by age 17 have not done this kind of personal narrative, have not usually had to write about themselves in this way. 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:04.559 Um I agree that like there's a lot of truth in the this is stupid. 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:18.720 And I just want to reiterate that the ability to wrap words around your experience and tell the story of who you are is a fantastic life skill that will serve you well beyond the college process. 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:25.119 Not and not just for someone who wants to be a writer or go into a field that requires a lot of writing. 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:46.799 That is a skill that will help you, you know, get your idea across to get that grant to fund the scientific research, that to pitch your idea to a VC that's going to fund your startup, to, you know, communicate your TED talk to a bunch of people or like run for office, you know, and and change the world that way. 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:58.079 So I think I think maybe remembering that this is a skill that is will go beyond these six to nine months of this intensive work. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:06.880 So it doesn't feel like I'm just doing this for to clear this one hurdle or jump through this one hoop is maybe helpful. 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:17.440 And also just something I love about the word authentic is that like it comes with a word that means genuine, and it also shares a root with the word for author. 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:37.039 So like there is there can be an element of choice and creativity and building and structure in authenticity, in that we are still genuine, yet we are building a structure to how we're presenting that truth about ourselves for our audience. 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.319 So it can still be authentic with a structure. 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:40.799 Yeah. 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:51.359 And there is as hard as it is to believe, there are humans on the other side that are going to be reading these essays who really want to root for you. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.240 And our job is in part is to give them a reason to root for us. 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:18.400 Um, I remember I got to actually meet one of the women that read my college essay when I uh because I I was very lucky to go to I got a scholarship to BC, but

part of the process of getting that scholarship was they like brought 50 some of us to the finalists to the school to like do these extra writing essays on the spot and interviews and things. 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:29.359 And one of the people I interviewed with was the woman, one of I'm sure many women who read or people who read my application and the way she talked about my essay. 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:40.000 And it really was my essay and the authenticity of it and the specificity of it, I think, that like put me in that group because I was a theater kid. 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:53.039 I wasn't, I wasn't going to going into deep scientific research or you know, some of the other things my amazing like the fellows that ended up in my cohort ended up doing. 00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:00.799 And it was so cool and affirming to be like, oh wow, an actual person read this and it made her root for me. 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.880 And and that's why that's a big reason why I'm in this room right now. 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.000 Um that's gonna be true for every essay that y'all write. 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:13.839 That people are going to the real people are going to read them. 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.599 Yeah, yeah, and and the the heart and humanity of them. 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:26.000 I think you know, it often gets lost because there's so much pressure on students to get all the best scores and all the perfect grades. 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:31.200 And um it often gets lost that like your humanity actually matters quite a bit. 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:31.759 Yeah. 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:40.559 And like the the human elements and the vulnerable, imperfect elements of those essays are actually the things that that can resonate most. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:27:01.920 And I I also think that you know that that exercise that you mentioned of identifying the why of white, like why you want to go to college, what you want to do there, is really helpful because I encounter a lot of students who have who are not necessarily served very well by the high school process, by by high school. 00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:07.759 You know, just the way that it's set up, it's so by by comparison, so restrictive, right? 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.319 It's very, you take these classes, it's very formulaic, you have to do this at this time. 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:19.359 It's so structured and dictated, and there's so much so many rules, and so you know, it doesn't fit a lot of people. 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:40.079 Um, and I think, you know, for some of the some of the students who are discouraged by the time they get to this point, it can be very helpful to actually look at what college looks like and feels like and see that like once you get past this very structured thing that feels very confining, it's freedom. 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:44.160 You know, you get to like take the classes that you want and do the things that you want. 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:54.799 And you know, there's there's so much more room to explore and really enjoy learning and not be, you know, forced into a bunch of the things that don't feel like they really fit you. 00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:09.279 Um so okay, so in terms of actually um getting started on the the caps and the supplemental essays, what are some of the the strategies you use? 00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:14.960 Um I know you mentioned the the uh kind of facing the blank page strategies. 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:29.839 Um so maybe let's talk a little bit about like identifying what is what is the right topic for the personal statement and and versus supplemental essays and what goes into the essays and what doesn't. 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:31.359 Sure. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:57.599 Um Well, I think in terms of uh the personal statement, I do often like starting from some version of the question like, what about you do you really want the admissions office to know that they're not gonna know about you from like your resume, your grades, your test scores, your activity list, right? 00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.920 We know they're gonna have that information. 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.279 So, like what other colors can we paint with here? 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.759 And to me, that that boils down to usually values, right? 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:14.240 You know, collaborative, creative, like, you know, all those things that we talk about. 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:42.880 And and I, you know, I mentioned some of the ways I like to brainstorm that, getting ideas from people that love you, like your parents, a teacher giving you a list of five to seven, your friends, um, looking at people you admire, uh, thinking back to like one or two moments in the past four years where you have like felt the most alive and the most yourself, and like what were the things that you were doing there? 00:29:43.039 --> 00:30:02.559 Not literally like I was, you know, doing this specific activity, but oh wow, I was collaborating, I was leading, I was linking together ideas, I was learning something new, I was experimenting as a way to solve a problem. 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:08.960 I was like leading by listening and sitting back and creating space for others. 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:15.359 So starting to find the patterns that way rather than starting from the story. 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:30.880 Because our job then is to take those like five values or so and find a story from our lives, ideally from the past four years, that brings to life those values. 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.039 So that's how I like to start. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:39.759 Um and then I like to, you know, think about it as a hero's journey, right? 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.200 So we you are the hero of this essay. 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:55.039 And you can look into you know Joseph Campbell's work on the hero's journey, you can look into other thinkers' works on the hero's journey, or you can think about the heroes that you love in movies and books.

00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:15.119 And one of the most compelling things about any great hero story is that we get to watch them grow and change, and then we get to watch them take that growth and change, integrate it, and put it to work in some way in their community in society. 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:36.960 So I think some of the common mistakes I see in essays is that, you know, maybe we say the hero's journey, you know, we have we get to know someone where they started, you know, with their background, there's some sort of challenge or call to action or growth moment. 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:44.480 We get to learn how they grow, then they come back from that and they get to put that to work in their community in some way. 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:53.519 And then we conclude beautifully with a way looking, you know, see now we see the world differently than the person who started the essay. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:05.680 One of the biggest, I don't know if mistakes is the right word, but maybe like pitfalls I see is that students kind of write essays sometimes and they're stuck in the challenge. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:12.880 There's like we've we've kind of equated authenticity with the most challenging things. 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:22.720 And the hero's journey that they write gets stuck just in the challenge part, and we don't get to the real growth and we don't get to the impact. 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:29.680 There is nothing wrong with t writing a very personal, beautiful story about a challenge in your life. 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:41.279 It is just not necessarily the most effective thing for a college essay because the audience for this essay is someone that wants to know who is the person that will be walking on my campus. 00:32:42.079 --> 00:33:01.279 And for that, we want to tell a story of we're not in the mid of a challenge, we're not currently still in the middle of, and we haven't made sense of yet, but something that we've kind of integrated and has made us who we are today, our kind of hero origin story to this moment at age 17 or 18. 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:01.920 Yeah. 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:08.640 Um, so I think that's that's one big like pitfall I've seen. 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:09.119 Yeah. 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:17.279 The way I think about that is um trauma happens to us, bad things happen to us, and we don't have a lot of control about that. 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:23.680 It doesn't have a lot to do with who we are, but how we respond to it and what we make of it, that's what shows who we are. 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:32.400 And if we haven't had time to have that processing and synthesis and response, that then turns it into something productive in some way. 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:36.480 It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have to be that, you know, it didn't matter or you're better for it. 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:42.240 I hate that that line of thinking that I'm better off because of some horrible thing that happened to me. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:42.640 Right. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:57.119 But the way that you respond to those things does does indicate a lot about who you are, and that's what's gonna teach the reader about you and show the unique personality traits that you're gonna bring to a new community. 00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:59.119 Sure, sure. 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:13.039 Yeah, and you can always go back and if you've made your little five to seven values list, you can check, you can kind of test it against that and say, like, if I tell this story, am I showing these parts of myself? 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:21.599 Because you get the 650 words to it, doesn't mean that that story about this traumatic thing isn't important to tell. 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:29.920 It just may not be like the color you want to paint with for your cats in this like painting you're creating of yourself. 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:30.400 Yeah. 00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:49.599 Um, I think another pitfall is maybe an essay in which a student is talking about someone they really admire, or whether that be a parent, mentor, grandparent, or thinker, or anything like that where they stop being the star. 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:53.760 I think you have to remember this is you are the star of this essay, you're the hero. 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:17.440 I think it's it's really effective to see you in community with others at some point in your essay, especially in maybe like paragraph four, like in that here's how I've integrated things and here's how I'm bringing them back to my community, and that can be defined as a person, a school group, a huge community, you know. 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:17.920 Yeah. 00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.519 Um, but I think that's that's another pitfall. 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:42.079 And then I think another one is just not thinking you're interesting enough and going on TikTok and looking at how other people are opening their essays and oh, I want to do this because this sounds cool, rather than trusting that like what you come up with that only you could come up with is going to be interesting because it's your fingerprint. 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:51.119 Yeah, and uh not kind of starting from this place of what you think other people want to hear. 00:35:51.360 --> 00:36:12.800 Yeah, one thing that Soliana often says is um that we take for granted the most interesting things about ourselves because they're so normal to us, which I think is it's very often true of students that they're they just think kind of the stuff that's the most interesting and cool about them is like not a big deal. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:23.119 And it's actually really fun for other people to learn about because it's unique to you and it's usually the stuff that you've been doing your whole life that's like actually that that is your fingerprint, you know. 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:25.039 Totally, totally. 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:49.360 And it doesn't have to be of course, like if you've done really cool

things, and like you said, maybe parents can help reflect back to students things that they've done that are super cool that the student, you know, isn't is kind of writing off in a way, and also like one of my favorite takes on a college essay is this one scene from Ladybird, Greta Gor Gerwig's Ladybird. 00:36:49.760 --> 00:37:02.079 And Ladybird is like brings her college essay to sister someone, I forget the nun's name, and she's giving her feedback, and it's like, oh, like I can tell you really love Sacramento in the way you've written about Sacramento. 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:06.320 And Lady Bird's kind of shocked because she doesn't think she loves where she's from. 00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:11.760 And she's like, No, I just like pay attention, and like the specificity comes from paying attention. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:15.039 And the nun says, Well, don't you think those are the same things? 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:17.760 Like loving something and paying attention. 00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:29.360 And I think like as long as we are paying attention to these things in our lives and these moments, however quote unquote small they are, there are moments. 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:40.159 And by bringing in that specificity and paying attention, I mean, one of my favorite essays was a student of mine who wrote about a haircut. 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:56.719 And they used this haircut, they opened with like the moment they're you know, cold open that catchy thing at the beginning was them in the barber's chair, you know, freaking out about whether to pull the trigger on this haircut or not. 00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:01.360 And then they, you know, that was the camera zoomed in on them for that opening paragraph. 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:20.719 Then the camera zooms out to give the background paragraph, and we learned that this student, you know, had been grappling with their gender identity and had been a ballerina and needed to have the long hair for the bun and like have this perfect look for the dance and all of that background. 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:40.320 And then they pulled the trigger on the haircut, and then the challenge of paragraph three was you know, going back into school and the dance space with this, you know, navigating this identity and like how they grew through accepting themselves and starting to like challenge and change the dance community they were in. 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:48.719 And then the fourth paragraph was like helping younger people embrace their own, you know, gender identity and expression. 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:56.000 And and now, and then the at the conclusion was talking about how they like love their haircuts now and how they're doing a side shave or whatever. 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:07.199 I mean, it was about so much more, but you know, that moment of it, they I remember when they pitched the idea to me, they're like, it's kind of dumb. 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:11.599 And I was like, This is so interesting, this is so cool, you know? 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:12.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:12.960 Yeah. 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.800 I have goosebumps. 00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:18.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:23.679 Um, we talked a little bit about mistakes that students make. 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.480 What are some of the mistakes that you see parents make? 00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.000 Ooh, good question. 00:39:30.559 --> 00:40:12.159 Um, I think maybe, I mean, I think a big mistake that I totally understand and have a lot of empathy for is kind of like showing up to maybe a conversation with your student, your kid, or like reading an essay and approaching if they've asked for feedback, giving feedback from a place of fear and having like fear lead the lead the conversation, because that can manifest as like pressure, or again, that perfectionism, or you know, needing it to be right and done maybe sooner than it is. 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:16.239 Um so I think you know, I think it's very challenging. 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:21.199 Of course, like we all want the best for our kids. 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:29.440 And when something is out of our control when it comes to a kid that we love, that is incredibly scary. 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:53.679 And I think maybe some of what is on our plate as educators and adults is like managing that and noticing when the fear is coming up and taking a breath and being like, okay, and maybe responding more with like open-ended questions or um starting with what you love about a draft before you dive into like what can be worked on and enhanced. 00:40:53.920 --> 00:41:03.440 Um, I think another big mistake is maybe that again comes from a good place is maybe trying to like do the work for the student. 00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:19.519 Um whether that's like I mean, as even going so far as writing it for them, which of course we don't want to do, but you know, pushing it so that it's more almost in a parent's voice than the student's voice. 00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:35.280 Um and not kind of like giving the student that space because this is a really important time where uh students can start to find and articulate their own voice often for the first time. 00:41:35.519 --> 00:42:01.920 Um and so I think uh I think those are some, and again, I I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but I think like another mistake is just like not starting sooner, just kind of um kicking the can down the road out of very understandable overwhelming fear versus like, okay, let's this is a lot, but let's sit down and start to look at like what this is gonna entail. 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:21.840 Um because it is very, very different than when we applied, um, in terms of like the number of essays, and you know, some things are of course the same, and you'll have useful advice and insight for your kids, but there are it is very different than when we applied. 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:38.639 I think that is, you know, sort of you kind of

like backed into another one of the mistakes that I that I see a lot is assuming it's the same, assuming that you know, like even since I applied, like if I look at my personal statement now, I know why it worked when it did. 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:53.760 Like I had two different ones, and um, one was about astrophysics and one was about my goddaughter who had cerebral palsy, she was four at the time, and it was about like why I admired her. 00:42:54.559 --> 00:43:00.000 Um and the second one was so much better, and now I know why. 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:07.360 But I also think that now it would have been a too much about her essay and not enough about me, you know. 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:11.360 Yeah, um but it was a different landscape then. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:15.119 It was the you know, the the kind of style, the competitiveness, everything was different. 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:40.159 Like I I hear a lot of parents worry that you know that the personal statement is trying to do too much, and they do a lot now, you know, which is like if you have like one story about one moment, often that doesn't show enough sides of you to be kind of competitive with what else, what the what what kind of sophisticated level of writing um has become the norm. 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:41.119 Totally. 00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:48.079 And I think you know, a lot a lot of that does have to do with the internet, with people sharing ideas and information. 00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:55.039 And you know, I mean it's it's more competitive because there are more students, but there's also more people sharing more information and more ideas. 00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:01.760 And so, you know, I think as much as students can get kind of the wrong Impression from online information. 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.199 I think they also can get a lot of good information and teach themselves a lot. 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:09.599 And then, you know, that kind of just raises the bar on the competitiveness. 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:10.719 Yeah. 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:28.559 Um and I think that's why I like to think of the personal statement more as like a hero's journey that can, you know, go through multiple steps and go multiple different places within your life the past four years or however long, rather than like a snapshot of one of one moment. 00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:29.679 Yeah. 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.599 Um just a couple more questions. 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:39.440 Um one of them is do you have any favorite favorite essays to write? 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:41.440 Um interesting. 00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:56.480 I mean, I guess the caps is probably my favorite, just because that's so I I that chance for a student to articulate who they are and their hero's journey at this moment in time is so special. 00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:13.519 Um, in terms of the other supplements, I mean, maybe like uh a creative Chicago essay, just because that's like so out of the box and and zany and kind of lets a

student do a lot. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:17.119 But I I don't know that I have a favorite prompt, right? 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:27.519 It's uh no no offense to the folks that construct the prompts, but I I feel like I don't really I kind of like reverse engineering things. 00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:33.280 Just like I was saying that I start with the values and then come up like with the story. 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:51.440 I think I I encourage students to think about like all the different colors that they can paint with to like tell the story of who they are, and then look at the landscaped of prompts they're going to have to answer, and then decide where to use which color. 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.599 So it's I don't know that I have a favorite essay. 00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:13.280 It's just more like, okay, like here's a student that has a lot of blue and orange and green and purple, and the orange is gonna be fantastic for the community essay, and the purple is gonna be great for the disagreement essay, and we've already painted with a lot of like green and yellow in the caps. 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:23.920 Um so I think I just think about it more as like you use them to your advantage and like make them work for you. 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:25.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:29.599 It also makes sense that you like the creative because I think that's the the trick with the creative. 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:31.679 Otherwise, there's so many possibilities. 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:35.280 Like you can just, I mean, you can go in so many different directions. 00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:42.960 But if you think about the creative as what haven't I gotten a chance to showcase yet that I want to showcase, then you can kind of find a prompt. 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:50.000 I mean, there's like gotta be a hundred of them that you can choose from because it's been so many years they've been doing this, right? 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:58.320 And you can just go to that like list online and say, okay, which one can I fit what I want to talk about into, you know? 00:46:58.639 --> 00:46:58.960 Yeah. 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:00.079 Um yeah. 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.840 And um do you have any that you that you dislike writing to? 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.599 Um, not not that I dislike. 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:20.559 I mean, I think the why essay, like why this school essay can be tricky just because of the research it asks the student to do for each school. 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:25.760 And you know, that that's just more time and um intensive. 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.559 So I like to think of that in two ways. 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:38.480 One, it's a chance to really get to know the schools on your list and and do some of that legwork of like, do I actually want to go here? 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:42.719 Um because the idea of a school can be great. 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:51.199 But then when you actually dig into the classes available and the professors, maybe you realize it's not what you thought it was or not a good fit. 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:51.679 A. 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:52.000 Yeah. 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.079 Or B, you get more excited. 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:54.960 Yeah. 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:02.000 I had a student last year who told me that um she loved doing YSAs because she just gets so much more excited about going to college. 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.440 It was the cutest thing. 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:05.199 That's awesome. 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.119 That's like ideally, yeah. 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:11.199 So it's like taxing, but then hopefully there's also that good thing. 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:18.480 And like the why YSA to me is like, I mean, I know this is a weird thing to say about a college process, but it's a little bit like dating. 00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.719 It's like, you know, they want to know if they ask you out that you're gonna say yes. 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:23.039 Right. 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.960 And like you also have to know that if they ask you out that you want to say yes. 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:30.800 And and doing that research is gonna like help you figure that out. 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:38.480 I think another tricky one is the the one that's become more popular recently about like disagreement. 00:48:38.719 --> 00:49:10.800 Um, only because I think finding a way to answer that authentically that really shows that you listened to someone who sees the world differently from you and learn something is challenging when our world is understandably very like polarized, and there's a lot of things where like maybe you don't think there's a lot of nuance around certain topics, and that's potentially fine and understandable. 00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:16.480 Like um, maybe you're like, oh, human rights, not a negotiable nuanced topic. 00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:32.320 Uh so finding something that you can genuinely speak to listening to somebody else, um, someone else's point of view and how you kind of grew from that is I don't say I dislike it, I have just found it like challenging. 00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:46.320 Yeah, it's I think because society tends to be so so siloed too, a lot of students by the time they're graduating from high school may not have had much exposure to people who have strong differing belief systems. 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:53.039 Um and so that can be tough, especially when they couch the question as specifically a discussion. 00:49:53.440 --> 00:50:25.360 I think like the perspective was challenged version of it, like talk about a time your perspective was challenged, can be a little bit more accessible because you, if you haven't had a conversation, you can talk about reading a book or like encountering an article or you know, something along those lines where you did learn something new genuinely, and it's easier to have that experience proactively if you happen to be in a community that's fairly homogenous in terms of values and belief

systems and ideology, you know. 00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:46.639 Um I think I think that one can be really tough because you know it's it's it's tricky because I understand why they're asking it because they want to show you they want you to show readiness for encountering those experiences in college, but in a lot of ways that's what college is for because a lot of a lot of us don't have those experiences before college. 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:56.639 Like this is the time when we we do get thrust into that, and so if you haven't had them thus far, it can be kind of tough to even come up with, you know. 00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:02.400 It's like, can we can we find someone to talk to so that we have a discussion to talk about, right? 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:13.039 Even like can you can you interview someone for your school newspaper so you can like talk about you know what you learned from them just to like even have had the conversation. 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:19.119 I think particularly when it's couched as a conversation, it can be really tough because sometimes you just haven't had them. 00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:21.760 Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great point. 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:51.840 And again, I think that's another reason to kind of just start to look at what supplements lie in your future now, because um, not that you want to do anything like that you wouldn't do anyway, but you could start if you know that you're gonna have to write XYZ essays in the coming months, you can start to look for opportunities to lean into those moments that you you may not have thought to do otherwise, or you may not have prioritized otherwise. 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.440 Or or focus on remembering them too, you know. 00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:56.639 Sir, yeah. 00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:12.000 Keeping a, I think like having keeping a Google Doc where you just you don't have to write the anecdotes, but just enough notes for you to remember what happened, so that if you want to use it as an example for an essay, you have some cues for yourself to remember. 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:13.039 Totally. 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.039 It's not a really natural way. 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:26.960 I mean, unless you're a person who's who's like born to write memoir, it's not really a natural way to go about life to be like, oh, I had this experience, let me like remember it so I can tell the anecdote, you know? 00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:28.400 Like exactly. 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:40.639 But it is it's maybe it's a little bit like that, you know, conventional wisdom where it's like you, I don't know, where they say, like, oh, you're like thinking about buying a red car, and all of a sudden you see red cars everywhere, you start noticing them. 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:49.039 But if you if you're like, oh, I have to write about, I'm gonna get to write about XYZ in the future, you might start to see and notice those things. 00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:49.440 Yeah. 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.800 Um, your brain might start to file those away in a different way. 00:52:53.039 --> 00:53:02.239 Whereas if you weren't thinking about that or that wasn't part of your awareness, it they would just not be as you know, spotlit in your mouth in your mind. 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:03.440 In your mind, yeah. 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.199 Harder to remember and and recall in order to write about them. 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:07.840 Yeah. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:11.519 Um so last two questions. 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:15.679 Um, what's your favorite part of this college essay process? 00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:24.239 Oh, I mean, I think my favorite part is the reverse of what we've been talking about, is so hard about it. 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:48.480 I mean, I think I feel really lucky that I get to meet a 17-year-old at this point in their life where like maybe for the first time they are grappling with trying to articulate and mine like who they are in this moment, how they became who they are in this moment, what their values are, and what stories bring those to life. 00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:53.199 I think that that is really cool and I feel really honored. 00:53:53.360 --> 00:54:03.840 I know that's very challenging, um, but my favorite part is getting to like dive into that challenge with young people because I think it's such a cool thing. 00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:11.280 And then once you have like clarity around that, it's so empowering, and that's gonna help an interview process. 00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:24.239 It's it's gonna help everything because you can walk in and like know who you are in this this way that maybe you knew kind of simmering in the background, but if you've never articulated it, it's not on the the forefront of your mind as much. 00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:30.320 So I love that, and it's so bespoke to each person. 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:36.480 It's like I think that's why it feels very similar to actor coaching to me in a weird way. 00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:45.679 It's like when I'm coaching someone on playing Juliet, for example, yes, there are certain structures and parameters you have to think of when you're playing Juliet. 00:54:45.840 --> 00:55:00.719 You have to say the lines that are on the page, you have to have diction so the audience understands you, you know, you gotta hit these notes, these beats for the story to make sense, but everyone's Juliet within that structure is going to be different because of who they are. 00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:05.360 And with the college process, like you there is an audience you're writing for. 00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:14.400 There are certain essays and prompts you have to answer and beats you have to hit, but yours is going to be yours because of who you are, and it's going to be different. 00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:31.920 Yeah, I think for me, it's I I well, I had a student um that has graduated now that I happened to talk to sometime, I think it was last year or sometime she had graduated by then.

00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:46.320 And she mentioned that the the process of writing together helped her clarify um who she was, was very like reflective and it it helped her get a better sense of who she was. 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:49.199 And I was like, oh, that's so exciting to hear. 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:59.039 Like it was like an empowering process where she like really felt she got a better sense of herself, and I was like, oh, success. 00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:07.039 You know, which is like that's exactly what that's exactly what it it is, that's what it is in the best iteration of it, you know. 00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:13.440 I think if you are able to to manage it well, you get like a stronger sense of what you care about and who you are. 00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:31.519 And and even as you were talking about like the skill building that you get along the way, I think why essays, as much as they can be, I mean, it's tricky, you know, one of the things that you were talking about in terms is the research being tricky, but I also think one of the things that's tricky about it is to write it in a way that doesn't sound like just like a research dump, right? 00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:49.679 Like it actually sounds genuinely excited about the school, and it feels like, you know, it's not like a fill in the blank of all of these different things that, you know, here's my research programs, and you know, like like I did the research kind of kind of uh a list of research that you did, right? 00:56:49.840 --> 00:57:08.480 Um, but I also think that skill is invaluable in terms of writing cover letters, you know, no matter what you do for a job, like those YSAs, if you get good at writing them, great, great skill to have because it's applicable across so many different types of things that that you have to do. 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:11.119 Okay, uh, last questions. 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:16.880 Are there any like final tips or pieces of advice that you would offer parents and students? 00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:18.159 Ooh. 00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:32.320 Um, or I like remembering is something I think about a lot as an actor is that when an animal, like a dog, walks on stage, they're often the most compelling thing on stage. 00:57:32.480 --> 00:57:38.079 Like even if it's Annie and everyone's there, like the kids are cute and they're belting out, the sun will come out tomorrow. 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:40.719 Sandy walks the dog walks on stage and everyone's like. 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:46.239 And I feel like it's because, in part, you know, dogs are cute, yeah. 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:49.760 But the dog doesn't know how to do anything other than be a dog. 00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:50.239 Yeah. 00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:53.199 Like there's no like, oh well, they like me. 00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:54.559 Am I doing the right thing? 00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:56.320 Am I writing what they want me to write? 00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:58.000 Is this perfect grammar? 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.119 And so I guess I would just say, like, remember to be the dog too. 00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:09.039 Remember to like be yourself in this too, which is not to mean that we don't need to have structure. 00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:27.840 Unfortunately, we are not dogs, like humans, like the best actors in the world spend their career unlearning their self-consciousness and unlearning just trying to mimic other voices to like find their own voice and to show up as themselves and their own take on a role. 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:31.760 And so, you know, that's the both end of our task, right? 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:38.320 Is to show up as ourselves and also to give it like a structure so that it can land with our audience. 00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:50.000 But I would just say, like, remember to be the dog and be yourself, and that you're gonna get so much advice thrown at you, and all of our brains work so differently. 00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:59.920 So take what is useful for your brain and what helps you in this process, and know that none of these are hard, fast rules. 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:15.119 Um, and take what's useful for you and try to connect to that bigger why behind what why you're doing this and the tools that you can take from this that will serve you well beyond the next year of your life. 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:16.960 Um, because they will. 00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:17.840 Awesome. 00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:19.599 Thank you so much, Patricia. 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.440 Yeah, it was really, really fun. 00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:23.840 Um thanks everybody for listening. 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:36.079 And if you have anything that you would like us to talk about, any questions or topics that you'd like to hear us talk about, feel free to email us Hello at seeing Beyond Admissions.com and we'll put that in the show notes too. 00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.559 Um and we will talk to you all next time. 00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:39.519 Thank you.