התמלול המלא של Hypnosis

It's of the 79 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.240 raunchy variety, so lots of swearing, lots of sex jokes, 80 00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:01.889 and with seven women on stage, he promised the crowd 81 00:04:02.349 --> 00:04:07.250 the entertainment would now really begin. Jim started off with 82 00:04:07.289 --> 00:04:10.240 something easy, suggesting that the person sitting next to us 83 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:12.400 smelled unbelievably good. 84 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.819 Wendy, you smell that? Yes, no? 85 00:04:16.790 --> 00:04:16.910 Okay. 86 00:04:17.329 --> 00:04:19.310 You can't hear it, but I said no. I was 87 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.300 a bit foggy and maybe I was starting to smell 88 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:26.620 something sweet, but whatever state I was in, I snapped 89 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.220 out of it immediately as soon as I saw the 90 00:04:29.259 --> 00:04:32.480 woman next to me leaping off her chair and starting 91 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:34.959 to sniff the lady next to her. But she didn't 92 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:39.310 just sniff her like a regular person. She buried her 93 00:04:39.389 --> 00:04:43.389 head deep into her crutch. The crowd went nuts. LAUGHTER 94 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:48.939 That was the moment I realised I had to get 95 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.100 off stage. So I did. But everyone else stayed on, 96 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:57.019 and under hypnosis, they ended up giving the audience lap dances, 97 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.339 they got high smoking imaginary weed, they rapped. 98 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:01.839 Yeah, can't stop laughing! 99 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:05.300 they heard noises coming out of their vaginas, and real 100 00:05:05.339 --> 00:05:08.790 estate agent Lauren was sent roaming around the club looking 101 00:05:08.870 --> 00:05:11.110 for a lost poodle called Twat. 102 00:05:11.129 --> 00:05:11.470 Twat! 103 00:05:12.389 --> 00:05:21.490 LAUGHTER So what in the world was happening on that stage? 104 00:05:21.550 --> 00:05:24.870 Were those women really just putty in Jim Spinato's hands, 105 00:05:25.029 --> 00:05:28.410 unable to stop themselves from following his every suggestion? Or 106 00:05:29.350 --> 00:05:32.379 were they just a bunch of attention seekers faking it 107 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:37.019 for the crowd? Well, the thing is, entertainers aren't the 108 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:39.959 only ones who have been using hypnosis over the years. 109 00:05:40.579 --> 00:05:45.110 Some doctors and scientists have been hypnotising patients for centuries 110 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.410 with the ultimate goal of improving people's physical and mental 111 00:05:48.490 --> 00:05:51.970 health as well as changing bad habits. Give them a 112 00:05:52.009 --> 00:05:55.230 suggestion to quit smoking and whammo, they're looking for a 113 00:05:55.269 --> 00:06:00.220 dog named Twat. Joking, obviously not. Presumably the ciggies are 114 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.000 in the crash and they never have

an urge to 115 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:08.259 smoke again. But does hypnosis really work like that? On 116 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.250 today's show, we're pushing science verses to the edge of 117 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:19.230 consciousness to answer the following questions. One, what is hypnosis? Two, 118 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:23.860 can everyone be hypnotized? Three, what is happening in your 119 00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:29.100 brain when you're under? And four, what can hypnosis make 120 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.100 you do? Like, how good is the evidence that it 121 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.360 really can help you quit smoking? When it comes to 122 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:42.379 mind control, there are lots of opinions. But then, there's science. 123 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:50.540 Let's start with the basics. What exactly is hypnosis? Professor 124 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:54.420 Philip Muskin is a psychiatrist at Columbia University in New York. 125 00:06:54.579 --> 00:06:55.360 The only thing you have to. 126 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:57.279 Be careful with these chairs is they totally have a 127 00:06:57.300 --> 00:06:57.959 mind of their own. 128 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.459 So if you move even a little, correct. 129 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:03.550 For more than three decades, he has been treating his 130 00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:07.089 patients with hypnosis. And he says that even after all 131 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:09.829 these years, he can still remember one of the first 132 00:07:09.870 --> 00:07:13.250 times he saw someone get hypnotized. It was a doctor 133 00:07:13.329 --> 00:07:17.329 who was being hypnotized by another doctor. The hypnotist gave 134 00:07:17.370 --> 00:07:21.459 his subject a very simple but rather terrifying suggestion. 135 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:26.279 You cannot separate your fingers. No force on earth will 136 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.920 allow you to separate your fingers. When you open your eyes, 137 00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:32.339 your fingers will be fused together. You cannot separate them. 138 00:07:33.149 --> 00:07:35.149 So he brought her out of the trance and her 139 00:07:35.189 --> 00:07:36.689 hands are like this and he gives her a cup 140 00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:38.879 of coffee and she goes to take it and just falls. 141 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:39.100 On the ground. 142 00:07:40.459 --> 00:07:44.480 I'm amazed. She then did a neurology residency here at 143 00:07:44.579 --> 00:07:47.069 the hospital I'm at now. And I ran into her 144 00:07:47.129 --> 00:07:49.089 one day. By then I was a psychiatry resident. So 145 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:52.250 she was now a senior neurology resident. And I said, 146 00:07:52.790 --> 00:07:55.310 I've been meaning to ask you this for years. So 147 00:07:55.350 --> 00:07:56.949 here we are. What was going on? 148 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:58.300 She said, I don't know. 149 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:00.300 He told me I couldn't take my fingers apart. I 150 00:08:00.310 --> 00:08:02.040 couldn't take my fingers apart. He gave me the damn 151 00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:04.639 cup of coffee. I made a mess. I was embarrassed, 152 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:06.040 but I couldn't take my fingers apart. 153 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.680 Seeing this astounded Philip. He went on to study hypnosis, 154 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.740 and now he regularly uses the technique on his patients 155 00:08:14.259 --> 00:08:17.319 for a variety of conditions, like relieving pain and helping 156 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:21.870 people with their phobias. Philip also teaches hypnosis to medical students. 157 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:24.230 He showed us how to hypnotize someone. 158 00:08:24.740 --> 00:08:26.139 Look into my eyes. 159 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.079 Nah, that was just his Dracula impersonation. Okay, no, here 160 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.019 it is. This is how you actually hypnotise someone. And 161 00:08:34.059 --> 00:08:37.309 you'll notice that the words that Professor Philip Musken uses 162 00:08:37.330 --> 00:08:41.210 are pretty similar to what Jim said on stage at 163 00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:43.070 the Mohegan Sun Casino. 164 00:08:43.090 --> 00:08:45.769 Roll your eyes up. Roll them up as high as 165 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:50.019 they'll go. And keeping your eyeballs up, slowly close your eyelids. 166 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:52.070 Take a deep breath. Deep, deep, deep, deep. 167 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:53.830 When I ask you to do this, all I want 168 00:08:53.870 --> 00:08:55.649 you to do is to roll your eyes to the 169 00:08:55.690 --> 00:08:57.389 top of the ceiling as far as you can go. 170 00:08:57.690 --> 00:08:59.970 Philip says that you can do a lot of things 171 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:02.250 to hypnotize someone. You don't have to roll your eyes 172 00:09:02.429 --> 00:09:04.850 up or take a deep breath. You can show them 173 00:09:04.870 --> 00:09:08.509 a spinning spiral or even dangle that old movie classic. 174 00:09:08.789 --> 00:09:11.830 The gold watch floating back and forth in front of 175 00:09:11.870 --> 00:09:14.620 your eyes. And those are all techniques that work. 176 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.600 The gold watch works? 177 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:17.080 It works. 178 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:22.019 But they all work for the same reason, that the 179 00:09:22.059 --> 00:09:25.629 person starts to concentrate his or her attention in a 180 00:09:25.690 --> 00:09:27.289 very narrow focus. 181 00:09:28.309 --> 00:09:31.149 Philip says that when you're so focused and the rest 182 00:09:31.190 --> 00:09:34.320 of the world just melts away and all you can 183 00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:39.799 hear is the hypnotist's voice, you are entering a trance. Yep, 184 00:09:40.220 --> 00:09:43.519 that's seriously what Philip and other academics call it. 185 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:44.860 A trance. 186 00:09:46.009 --> 00:09:48.809 Now, Philip says there are a few components to hypnosis. 187 00:09:49.490 --> 00:09:55.620 Absorption,

dissociation, and suggestibility. Absorption really means that you narrow 188 00:09:55.659 --> 00:10:00.620 your focus. You're absorbed. Dissociation means things that are normally 189 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:06.559 one are separated. And suggestibility means that social cues that 190 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:11.120 you might ignore, you're more open to them. 191 00:10:11.830 --> 00:10:15.690 Once suggestibility kicks in, the hypnotist makes suggestions to you, 192 00:10:15.830 --> 00:10:18.450 like smelling the woman next to you or keeping your 193 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:23.250 hands clasped together. Then, the hypnotist basically wakes you up 194 00:10:23.669 --> 00:10:24.750 and ends the trance. 195 00:10:27.129 --> 00:10:29.320 Now, in a minute, I'm going to have you open 196 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.259 your eyes. Don't do anything, just listen. 197 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:32.799 At three. 198 00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:35.019 You can start to move around your seats a little bit. 199 00:10:35.460 --> 00:10:36.299 Why don't you do that now? 200 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:37.240 Just get a little bit. 201 00:10:37.179 --> 00:10:40.679 Of energy going on, okay? Four, almost awake. On the 202 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.549 next number, your eyes will open. At that point, you'll 203 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:45.509 be wide, wide, wide awake, feeling excellent. 204 00:10:45.529 --> 00:10:47.990 You'll feel refreshed, like you've taken a short nap. 205 00:10:50.070 --> 00:10:53.429 Conclusion To put someone under, you first focus them, get 206 00:10:53.470 --> 00:10:57.789 them absorbed, then give them suggestions. And finally, you wake 207 00:10:57.830 --> 00:11:00.690 them up. Oh, and other than the cocktails and the 208 00:11:00.730 --> 00:11:04.629 lap dances, what hypnotists do on stage can actually be 209 00:11:04.789 --> 00:11:12.549 quite similar to what doctors do in the office. Next question. 210 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:18.529 Is everyone on stage and in Philip's office actually hypnotised? 211 00:11:19.379 --> 00:11:23.139 Because there is a problem that plagues hypnotists, and that 212 00:11:23.259 --> 00:11:28.299 is fakers. People pretending to be under and carrying out 213 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:32.299 the suggestions just because they want to. Either they want 214 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.460 to please the crowd or maybe they want to please 215 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:38.840 their doctor. And the thing is that even scientists have 216 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:44.129 trouble spotting a faker. Even with fancy schmancy technology like 217 00:11:44.309 --> 00:11:47.320 MRI scanners that can map the brain. There is no 218 00:11:47.419 --> 00:11:51.090 consistent marker for when the brain is under a hypnotic trance. 219 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:54.669 But a paper reviewing the current state of the science, 220 00:11:54.730 --> 00:11:59.990 which cited almost 100 articles published in 2013, concluded that 221 00:12:00.029 --> 00:12:03.919 the scientific consensus on hypnosis reckons there is more to 222 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.940 it than faking. Some people, they noted, do have genuine 223 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:13.309 experiences of feeling in some kind of trance. So, while 224 00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:16.230 some people, when it comes to hypnosis, are surely faking, 225 00:12:16.809 --> 00:12:20.049 let's focus on what is happening to the people who aren't. 226 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.299 Turns out that some are more likely to go under 227 00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:28.879 and follow suggestions than others. What makes these people so 228 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:33.820 highly hypnotisable? Studies with identical twins suggest that there is 229 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:37.629 a genetic link between people who are highly hypnotisable, so 230 00:12:37.730 --> 00:12:41.110 it's a trait that could be inherited. But not all 231 00:12:41.210 --> 00:12:45.700 identical twins showed a strong genetic link. So there's probably 232 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:49.000 more at play than genetics. And just like you can't 233 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:53.200 use genes to pick out a highly hypnotizable person, according 234 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.370 to Philip, you also can't look at someone and accurately 235 00:12:56.450 --> 00:12:58.490 guess who is hypnotizable. 236 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:03.750 There are people who are very hypnotizable, but they wear 237 00:13:03.789 --> 00:13:08.080 three-piece suits. There are people who dress in a flighty way. 238 00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:12.309 And everyone thinks, oh, she's hypnotisable. And she's anything but hypnotisable. 239 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:15.740 You can be weak-willed and not be hypnotisable at all 240 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.460 and extremely strong-willed and be very hypnotisable. 241 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.779 And there are no biological tests for who is or 242 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.480 isn't highly hypnotisable. There's no blood test or brain scan. 243 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:31.740 The only way to know, say researchers, is to hypnotise 244 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:34.230 people and then ask them to do a series of 245 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:39.980 increasingly complicated tasks while they're under. It's a test, and 246 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:43.000 based on what people do or don't do, the scientists 247 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:47.250 give them a ranking of hypnotisability. There are several of 248 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.750 these tests. Two of the most frequently used are from 249 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.950 Harvard and Stanford. And when scientists use these tests to 250 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:57.970 rank hypnotisability, they've found that, like most personality traits, being 251 00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:02.750 extroverted or neurotic, hypnotisability falls into a spectrum, where most 252 00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:07.100 people are in the middle... 10-15% are highly hypnotisable, and 253 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:11.710 then there are very few incredibly

hypnotisable people. These are 254 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:17.590 people who will follow extremely complicated suggestions. On stage, Jim's 255 00:14:17.629 --> 00:14:20.250 hypnosis didn't really work on me, but I wanted to 256 00:14:20.289 --> 00:14:22.990 see how I would go in a clinical setting. You know, 257 00:14:23.190 --> 00:14:24.250 with a real professional. 258 00:14:25.750 --> 00:14:27.149 Look into my eyes. 259 00:14:27.889 --> 00:14:31.389 Philip gave me a short hypnotisability test, and he used 260 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:34.750 this simple scoring system from zero to five. Zero, not 261 00:14:34.789 --> 00:14:38.779 hypnotisable at all. Five, very hypnotisable. He put me under, 262 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.419 then told me my arm felt tingly, and it kind 263 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:46.000 of started to feel a bit tingly. Then, after a 264 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:48.220 couple more suggestions, he got me out of it. 265 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.029 Open up your eyelids. Open them up and bring them 266 00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:52.690 into focus. How do you feel? 267 00:14:54.350 --> 00:14:55.669 Yeah, I feel very. 268 00:14:58.149 --> 00:15:03.259 A little bit drugged out. Drugged out. The most similar 269 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:06.299 to when I felt like this before. 270 00:15:07.059 --> 00:15:07.360 Okay. 271 00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:09.279 Is it a good feeling or a bad feeling? 272 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:12.700 It's like a little bit woozy making. 273 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:13.600 A little bit woozy. 274 00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:16.659 Okay. So as you could hear, I sound pretty groggy, 275 00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:19.820 and that really surprised me. For five minutes of just 276 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.379 focusing my attention, for my head to go all foggy, 277 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.149 that was odd. And it led Philip Musken to tell me. 278 00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:30.909 You're actually hypnotisable. Sorry to disappoint you. 279 00:15:30.929 --> 00:15:31.460 What number? 280 00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:32.399 What number am I? 281 00:15:32.419 --> 00:15:33.379 You're at least a three. 282 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:38.139 At least a three? Who wants to be highly hypnotisable? 283 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:40.000 I want it to be a zero. I don't want 284 00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:42.379 people messing with my head in a way that's out 285 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:47.730 of my control. Which brings us to Amanda Barnier. 286 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:51.529 I'm a professor of cognitive science in... the Department of 287 00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:54.690 Cognitive Science at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia. 288 00:15:54.909 --> 00:15:59.330 And she studies extremely hypnotisable people, people at the top 289 00:15:59.509 --> 00:16:02.509 end of that scale that Philip used on me. And 290 00:16:02.529 --> 00:16:06.360 she writes about them in peer-reviewed journals. So she told 291 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.039 me about one case of a man called Blake, which 292 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.139 isn't his real name. She put him under hypnosis and 293 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:15.419 then she gave him a rather remarkable suggestion. 294 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.700 In a moment, I'm going to get you to look 295 00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:20.539 into a mirror and you're going to see a stranger, 296 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.399 not yourself. And then I said, okay, lean forward, open 297 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.279 your eyes and look in the mirror. And he opens 298 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:30.549 his eyes and he looks in the mirror. And then 299 00:16:30.570 --> 00:16:33.149 he looks around the room and he looks at me 300 00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:36.429 and he looks around the room. And I said, who 301 00:16:36.490 --> 00:16:38.240 is it? And what do you see? And he said, 302 00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:40.799 it's not me. I said, do you know who it is? 303 00:16:41.139 --> 00:16:43.200 And he said, I think it's a guy that I 304 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.029 used to go to school with. And I said, does 305 00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:49.240 he look like you? And he said, no. 306 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:53.399 Amanda pushed Blake and he kept saying the person he 307 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:56.929 could see in the mirror was definitely not him. 308 00:16:56.950 --> 00:17:00.929 He said, well, his eyes are smaller, his nose is bigger, 309 00:17:01.370 --> 00:17:04.730 he's got freckles. So, yeah, that's absolutely one of the 310 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:06.799 most compelling sessions that I've ever sat in. 311 00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:10.500 And Blake wasn't the only one. In total, Amanda convinced 312 00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:14.319 14 out of 22 highly hypnotisable subjects that they were 313 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.630 seeing a stranger when they looked in the mirror. And 314 00:17:17.710 --> 00:17:20.309 of these, 10 said they had never seen this person 315 00:17:20.329 --> 00:17:22.390 in the mirror before, two said they had seen the 316 00:17:22.410 --> 00:17:26.210 person before, and another two just weren't sure. She also 317 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.220 tried this out on people with low hypnotisability, and it 318 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:34.960 didn't work. Conclusion. There is a spectrum of hypnotisability. Most 319 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:36.960 people are in the middle, but there are a few 320 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:44.470 super hypnos. Trademark science verses. These are incredibly hypnotisable people 321 00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:47.809 that can be made to not recognise themselves in the mirror. 322 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:51.450 After the break, what's going on in the brain of 323 00:17:51.509 --> 00:17:54.619 a super hypno? And how far can you take these 324 00:17:54.710 --> 00:18:03.869 highly hypnotisable people when they're under? Hey, it's Wendy from 325 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:06.059 Science Versus, and I want to tell you about a 326 00:18:06.099 --> 00:18:09.539 podcast that I love, Science Friday. They cover all

sorts 327 00:18:09.579 --> 00:18:12.900 of amazing things in the weird and wonderful world of science, 328 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:16.970 from how concussions affect our brain to the inner secrets 329 00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:20.250 of a snake with a spider on its It's a 330 00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:22.650 lot of news that you can use and some that 331 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:25.099 you can't, but you're going to love anyway. It's hosted 332 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.839 by Ira Flatto and Flora Lichtman, who is an old 333 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.619 friend of the show and loves a pun as much 334 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.779 as we do. Science Friday is on every day wherever 335 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:42.589 you get your podcasts. Welcome back. So what is happening 336 00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:46.069 in the mind of highly hypnotisable people? Are they under 337 00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:50.930 some weird kind of mind control? Well, there is a 338 00:18:51.380 --> 00:18:58.299 much simpler explanation. Placebo. Like the way that taking a 339 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.299 sugar pill that you believe is a painkiller can cure 340 00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:06.430 a headache. Could believing that hypnosis is real and magical 341 00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:11.730 make you experience it as real and magical? Professor Amir 342 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:15.029 Raz is a researcher of cognitive science at McGill University 343 00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:15.789 in Montreal. 344 00:19:16.299 --> 00:19:19.660 The whole hypnosis thing can be construed as some kind 345 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.220 of a complex placebo effect where things happen just because 346 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:24.700 you believe they're about to happen. 347 00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:28.059 And some academics do think of hypnosis this way. They 348 00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:31.660 point to studies which show that people's preconceived ideas about 349 00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:36.089 what happens when you go under influence what happens when 350 00:19:36.130 --> 00:19:39.470 you go under. Think about those women on stage at 351 00:19:39.509 --> 00:19:42.589 the casino. They did all these things that comedian Jim 352 00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:46.279 Spenato wanted them to do. And under this placebo theory, 353 00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:49.930 they did those things because they went into the comedy club... 354 00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:55.220 expecting that that's what being hypnotised would be like. But 355 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:59.640 there is debate here. Other researchers argue that expectation and 356 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.279 placebo isn't so important in hypnosis, and they have studies 357 00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:07.380 to back up their opinions. It's this conflicting evidence that 358 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.990 led Amir to build what he calls... The funny room. 359 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:15.250 There's a system, a clandestine system, a hidden system of 360 00:20:15.470 --> 00:20:17.730 some speakers in the ceiling. And

we told them that 361 00:20:17.849 --> 00:20:21.109 only highly hypnotisable people can hear a mosquito flying in 362 00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:21.430 the room. 363 00:20:22.349 --> 00:20:28.230 Then Amir pretends to hypnotise these subjects. And then he 364 00:20:28.309 --> 00:20:33.269 starts to play recordings of mosquitoes flying very faintly through 365 00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:34.450 these hidden speakers. 366 00:20:35.269 --> 00:20:37.150 And then they say, you know, goodness. 367 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:42.019 So picture it. People think they are deeply hypnotized. They're not. 368 00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:45.279 And they hear a buzzing sound that they think they're 369 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:49.599 hearing because they're under hypnosis. But really, it's just playing 370 00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:53.259 on the speakers. And Amir says this is just the 371 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:54.980 first step of the experiment. 372 00:20:55.460 --> 00:20:57.390 When they come out of the funny room, they are 373 00:20:57.410 --> 00:21:00.730 sort of empowered to think that they're highly hypnotizable. And 374 00:21:00.769 --> 00:21:03.289 we wanted to see if when we empower people to 375 00:21:03.329 --> 00:21:05.630 be highly hypnotizable, regardless of whether they are or aren't, 376 00:21:06.309 --> 00:21:09.579 if they would then perform hypnosis. like a highly hypnotizable person. 377 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.259 So after all this trickery, Amir actually hypnotized the participants 378 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.460 and gave them suggestions. He then repeated the experiment in 379 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.200 a variety of ways, all with one goal, to answer 380 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:25.950 the question, would people who expect to be super responsive 381 00:21:26.009 --> 00:21:31.809 to hypnosis perform like people who actually are highly hypnotizable? 382 00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:35.190 And the answer is that they don't. 383 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.960 That is, they didn't do all the things that Amir asked, 384 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:44.559 things that truly hypnotisable people would do, meaning that people's 385 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:50.089 expectations don't fully explain how they react to real hypnosis, 386 00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:54.730 which has led Amir to believe that hypnosis cannot be 387 00:21:54.829 --> 00:21:57.490 completely explained by placebo. 388 00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:01.670 I can very emphatically say that a large part of 389 00:22:01.730 --> 00:22:05.380 what hypnosis is But then again, I'm not for a 390 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:09.900 second claiming that hypnosis is only placebo. 391 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:14.420 A 2006 experiment, charmingly titled Expect the Unexpected, which came 392 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.559 from a different team of researchers, also found that expectation 393 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:22.839 could not fully explain how people respond to hypnosis. They 394 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.720 wrote that the idea that it's all expectation, quote, seems 395 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:33.829 too extreme, end quote. Conclusion The placebo effect can explain 396 00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:37.660 some of why hypnosis works, but it appears that it 397 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:43.579 doesn't explain everything. So, what else is going on in 398 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:48.369 these highly hypnotisable people? For decades, researchers have probed the 399 00:22:48.410 --> 00:22:51.710 brains of these people, trying to answer this very question 400 00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:56.299 using brain scanners, MRIs or PET scanners. And some of 401 00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.259 these small studies have found that the brains of people 402 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:03.339 who are experiencing something under hypnosis look an awful lot 403 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.740 like the brains of people who are actually experiencing the 404 00:23:06.819 --> 00:23:10.359 real thing. Let me give you an example. So there 405 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:12.579 was this study of a man who was hypnotised and 406 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.619 told that he couldn't move his leg. And the researchers 407 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:18.440 found that the activity of two areas in his brain 408 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.859 looked really similar to a person who actually had this 409 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:27.230 condition known as hysteria paralysis. It's a rare psychological condition 410 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:29.750 where you can't move a body part, in this case, 411 00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:33.250 a leg. The paper was published in The Lancet. In 412 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:36.930 another study, researchers scanned the brains of eight highly hypnotisable 413 00:23:36.990 --> 00:23:39.509 people while they played them an audio recording of a 414 00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:43.380 generic sentence with no particular significance. This is what it was. 415 00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:46.319 The man did not speak often, but when he did, 416 00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:48.119 it was worth hearing what he had to say. 417 00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:51.359 And they played it over and over and over again 418 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.980 so that it would get stuck in the subject's mind. 419 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:58.869 The man did not speak often, but when he did, 420 00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:00.690 it was worth hearing what he had to say. 421 00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:04.710 Then the people were hypnotized and told that they were 422 00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:06.369 hearing the recording again. 423 00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:07.730 The man did not speak. 424 00:24:07.970 --> 00:24:10.970 But they weren't. They were just hypnotized and thought they 425 00:24:10.990 --> 00:24:15.869 were hearing it. Finally, the people were told to imagine 426 00:24:16.009 --> 00:24:20.180 hearing the line. No hypnosis this time, just thinking about it. 427 00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:23.059 The man did not speak often, but when he did, 428 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:26.640 it was worth hearing what he

had to say. The 429 00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:30.509 researchers found that when the people heard the recording, a 430 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:33.250 particular area of their brain lit up. And when they 431 00:24:33.269 --> 00:24:37.589 were hypnotised, that same area also lit up, just like 432 00:24:37.630 --> 00:24:41.329 when they were hearing it. But when they were told 433 00:24:41.349 --> 00:24:45.059 to merely imagine the recording, when they weren't hypnotised at all, 434 00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:50.059 that part of the brain stayed dark. The same effect 435 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:52.660 has been seen when people are hypnotised and told that 436 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:56.160 they're feeling pain, and even when they're told they can't 437 00:24:56.259 --> 00:25:00.359 see colour. Now, within these brain studies, there's a particular 438 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:03.779 area of the noggin that comes up over and over again. 439 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:08.160 It's called the anterior cingulate cortex. It's a hook-shaped node 440 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.279 in the middle of the front of the brain. And 441 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.200 it seems to affect how we perceive the world around us. 442 00:25:13.269 --> 00:25:16.109 There's even evidence suggesting that it affects how we perceive 443 00:25:16.250 --> 00:25:20.910 our own pain. So if this area gets tweaked during hypnosis, 444 00:25:21.250 --> 00:25:23.470 it kind of makes sense that it would change a 445 00:25:23.509 --> 00:25:26.690 person's perception of reality. Here's Amir again. 446 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:30.859 If the anterior cingulate cortex begins to monitor behavior differently 447 00:25:30.910 --> 00:25:33.960 and decides that something is sad when it's not so sad, 448 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.700 or the other way around, that something is really funny 449 00:25:35.740 --> 00:25:37.880 when it's not so funny, this would bring about a 450 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:40.680 very dramatic change in behavior. Very dramatic. 451 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.259 Now, all this research suggests that a hypnotist is kind 452 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:50.940 of controlling people's minds. But there are problems with these studies. 453 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:54.980 For one, they're often really small. Plus, it's really hard 454 00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:58.200 to interpret the brain. Yes, areas of the brain light 455 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:01.349 up in particular patterns. But the brain is lighting up 456 00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:04.069 in different ways all the time, and it's very hard 457 00:26:04.109 --> 00:26:07.089 to control for these variables, particularly when you have so 458 00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:11.279 few people in a given study. So... For example, when 459 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.150 we look back at that leg paralysis study where the 460 00:26:14.210 --> 00:26:16.930 man's brain lit up in two areas just like a 461 00:26:16.990 --> 00:26:22.059 real patient with hysteria paralysis. Well, recently that same group 462 00:26:22.099 --> 00:26:26.299 of researchers looked at 12 other people, repeated the general 463 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:31.430 experiment and couldn't replicate their results. And just to make 464 00:26:31.509 --> 00:26:33.829 my brain hurt and maybe your brain hurt a little 465 00:26:33.849 --> 00:26:36.809 bit more, while those leg studies that we talked about 466 00:26:37.009 --> 00:26:41.829 used PET scanners, many others have used MRIs. And a 467 00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:45.250 study out this year found that some computer programs used 468 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:50.640 to interpret MRI scans are actually spitting out unreliable results, 469 00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:53.640 making areas of the brain look like they're lighting up 470 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:59.220 when actually they aren't. The implications of this work are 471 00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:02.019 still being nutted out and the results of that study 472 00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:06.220 will need to be replicated. But meanwhile, here's how Philip 473 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.119 summed up our current knowledge of the brain under hypnosis. 474 00:27:09.700 --> 00:27:11.529 So we can look at the brain and we can, 475 00:27:11.609 --> 00:27:14.829 to some extent, look at the brain functioning. But there's 476 00:27:14.869 --> 00:27:17.630 a lot that goes on we don't have a clue about. 477 00:27:20.769 --> 00:27:24.349 Conclusion. Some studies suggest that the brain is affected in 478 00:27:24.450 --> 00:27:28.319 powerful ways under hypnosis. but there can be real issues 479 00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:32.579 with interpreting some of these studies. So for now, the 480 00:27:32.619 --> 00:27:41.390 hypnotised brain remains a mystery. Next question. So even though 481 00:27:41.430 --> 00:27:44.170 we don't know what is happening in the brain under hypnosis, 482 00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:46.750 there is still this question of what we can actually 483 00:27:46.809 --> 00:27:50.359 make people do when they're under hypnosis. Now, one way 484 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.420 to answer this question would be to push people to 485 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:57.200 their limits, really make them do something under hypnosis that 486 00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:01.480 they would never want to do. Amanda Barnier pushes her 487 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:02.900 subjects pretty far. 488 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.400 He said, it's not me. 489 00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:06.650 But even she has her limits. 490 00:28:07.390 --> 00:28:10.650 I don't know how far and I don't know that 491 00:28:10.970 --> 00:28:14.230 it's not ethical to test how far that mind control 492 00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:16.849 will go. I haven't tested and I don't know where 493 00:28:16.869 --> 00:28:18.609 the limit is. There's going to be a limit somewhere. 494 00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:20.910 I don't want to test it. 495 00:28:22.069 --> 00:28:27.829 Ugh. Academics with their pesky ethics. Well, there's one organisation 496 00:28:27.869

--> 00:28:32.059 that doesn't have to worry about those. The CIA. And 497 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:35.259 in fact, in the 1950s, they looked at how far 498 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.539 you could push hypnosis using covert programs with adorable names 499 00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:45.730 like Project Bluebird, Project Artichoke and the less adorable MKUltra. 500 00:28:46.589 --> 00:28:50.390 A partially redacted CIA memo summarized their thoughts on the 501 00:28:50.430 --> 00:28:51.970 potentials of hypnosis. 502 00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:59.900 Fifth of May, 1955. Subject, hypnotism and covert operations. I 503 00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:02.740 apologize for submitting a document as long as this one. 504 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:06.839 The subject is highly controversial, and even this treatment, which 505 00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:07.660 may appear long. 506 00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:10.660 Is abbreviated. Don't, just get to the important bit. 507 00:29:12.019 --> 00:29:13.880 Is this a part of, like, our, is this what 508 00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:14.319 we're doing? 509 00:29:14.380 --> 00:29:15.640 Is this a part of, like, us acting? 510 00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:15.920 Yeah. 511 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:22.359 OK, because that really surprised me. The possibilities are not 512 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.819 only interesting, they are frightening. A kind of double-think Orwellian 513 00:29:26.859 --> 00:29:30.849 world of hypnosis, while unlikely, is not utterly fantastic. 514 00:29:32.829 --> 00:29:36.190 The CIA knew this Orwellian world was unlikely because of 515 00:29:36.289 --> 00:29:39.849 studies they cited in their declassified documents, like this one. 516 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:44.079 where researchers told a deeply hypnotised woman to stab and 517 00:29:44.180 --> 00:29:49.650 poison several people. She did so without even hesitating. But 518 00:29:50.390 --> 00:29:53.009 when they told her to undress, she snapped out of 519 00:29:53.049 --> 00:29:56.769 her hypnotised state and refused. The thing is, she knew 520 00:29:56.789 --> 00:30:00.390 the murders weren't real. And they weren't. The researchers had 521 00:30:00.509 --> 00:30:03.819 used rubber daggers and sugar pills for the poison. But 522 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.380 the undressing? That was real, and she could tell the difference. 523 00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:11.700 Which is why, in 1960, the CIA concluded in a 524 00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:13.839 declassified report... It. 525 00:30:13.819 --> 00:30:17.849 Appears extremely doubtful that trans can be induced in resistant subjects. 526 00:30:20.190 --> 00:30:23.509 So that's the CIA. And 50 years later, Jim Spinato 527 00:30:23.609 --> 00:30:28.019 and his R-rated hypnosis show also ran up against those limits. 528 00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:30.789 He got those women to do some pretty weird stuff 529 00:30:30.849 --> 00:30:33.710 on stage when they were under. Here's Lauren, the real 530 00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:34.390 estate agent. 531 00:30:34.410 --> 00:30:37.049 F * * *. 532 00:30:34.410 --> 00:30:36.650 Ing, f * * * ing. 533 00:30:36.829 --> 00:30:40.230 Motherf * * * ing... She did most of Jim's suggestions, 534 00:30:40.589 --> 00:30:44.519 but not one. Jim suggested that she go nuts making 535 00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:50.059 out with her husband when Jim would say the words... Pinkies, pinkies, pinkies, pinkies, pinkies! 536 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.920 Jim said that she wouldn't be able to control herself 537 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:58.470 with her husband. Now, Lauren sat in her husband's lap... 538 00:30:58.849 --> 00:31:00.970 Kissed him a little, but that was it. 539 00:31:01.190 --> 00:31:04.769 At that point, I already was, OK, there's a lot 540 00:31:04.789 --> 00:31:06.779 of people here and that's inappropriate. 541 00:31:06.819 --> 00:31:08.880 Let's just kiss like normal people. 542 00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:12.980 OK, so hypnosis probably won't make us undress in front 543 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.839 of strangers or maul our husband on stage if we 544 00:31:15.940 --> 00:31:19.000 actually don't want to do that. But what about the 545 00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:22.660 smaller things, things we might actually want to do, like 546 00:31:23.140 --> 00:31:27.190 quit smoking, lose weight, sleep better, or maybe even stop pain, say, 547 00:31:27.470 --> 00:31:31.000 during childbirth? There are lots of claims out there that 548 00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.680 hypnosis can do the trick for all of these things. 549 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:38.400 But the problem is there just isn't enough good evidence 550 00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:42.609 to show whether or not hypnosis works for any of these. Yes, 551 00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:46.750 there have been clinical trials, but sometimes they aren't particularly 552 00:31:46.789 --> 00:31:49.509 good quality. They typically don't have a lot of people 553 00:31:49.569 --> 00:31:52.930 within them, and scientists use different ways to hypnotise their 554 00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:56.329 subjects in different studies, which makes it really difficult to 555 00:31:56.369 --> 00:32:00.650 compare results and come up with solid findings. It also 556 00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:03.970 makes it really difficult to say the likelihood that hypnosis 557 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:12.220 can help you. Conclusion. Even highly hypnotisable people probably won't 558 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.140 do everything they're told to by a hypnotist. Best we 559 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.450 can tell, there are limits. Even when you go into 560 00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:23.069 a trance, you can probably snap yourself out of it. 561 00:32:24.130 --> 00:32:28.180 Which takes us back to my greatest fear. being forced 562 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:33.019 to make animal noises while I'm under hypnosis. Straight after 563 00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:36.529 Philip Muskin hypnotised me in his office, I asked him... 564 00:32:36.740 --> 00:32:39.849 With more work, could you make me quack like a duck? 565

00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:45.710 If you wanted to. That is, if you wanted, during 566 00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:48.470 the experience, to be disinhibited in that way. 567 00:32:49.250 --> 00:32:53.670 For me, I guess whether, say, to bark like a 568 00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:56.250 duck or bark like a dog or quack like a duck, 569 00:32:56.529 --> 00:33:01.670 that would be... Evidence for me about the power of hypnosis, 570 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:02.089 I guess. 571 00:33:02.150 --> 00:33:05.670 The power of hypnosis is internal. What you're saying is 572 00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:08.880 that would be evidence of my power over you. That 573 00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:10.160 is not how hypnosis works. 574 00:33:10.819 --> 00:33:15.079 So when it comes to science versus hypnosis, does it 575 00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:24.250 stack up? First, does hypnosis really work? Well, on stage, 576 00:33:24.329 --> 00:33:27.210 there's peer pressure and wanting to get a laugh. So 577 00:33:27.269 --> 00:33:29.490 it's hard to know how many of those people are 578 00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:32.880 faking it. And in fact, even in the lab, picking 579 00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:35.720 out a faker can be a problem. But based on 580 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:39.200 the research we have found, hypnosis does seem to be 581 00:33:39.339 --> 00:33:45.079 a real thing. Next, can everyone be hypnotised? No, but 582 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:49.559 most of us probably can. People fall along a spectrum 583 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.299 of hypnotisability and about 10 to 15% of people are 584 00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:58.380 highly hypnotisable. OK, now, what is happening in your brain 585 00:33:58.460 --> 00:34:02.140 when you are under? Well, that is something that scientists 586 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:08.389 are very much still trying to figure out. For people 587 00:34:08.429 --> 00:34:11.289 who do seem to be highly hypnotisable, there is a 588 00:34:11.409 --> 00:34:15.269 chance that what we're seeing isn't them under hypnosis, but 589 00:34:15.329 --> 00:34:20.449 rather the placebo effect in action. But placebo doesn't explain 590 00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:25.090 all experiences of hypnosis. Still, according to the science, you're 591 00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:30.429 not under a spell or someone else's control. And for now, 592 00:34:30.610 --> 00:34:34.369 there is no evidence that you entirely lose control of yourself. 593 00:34:35.110 --> 00:34:39.190 So if hypnosis isn't all faking, and it's not all placebo, 594 00:34:39.570 --> 00:34:46.070 and it's not mind control, what is it? Here's the 595 00:34:46.150 --> 00:34:50.480 best answer we got. When your mind is truly focused 596 00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:55.079 and all you can hear is the hypnotist's voice, you're 597 00:34:55.099 --> 00:35:01.110 just more likely to follow suggestions. Hearing this just baffled 598 00:35:01.170 --> 00:35:04.840 me a lot. So I asked Philip Musken about it. 599 00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:09.699 The trance and the being very,

very focused, I can 600 00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:13.619 completely understand. But the fact that then your mind is 601 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:18.739 more malleable... more likely to be suggestible when you're concentrating. 602 00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.570 How does that happen? How does that happen? 603 00:35:21.590 --> 00:35:25.489 So how does it work? We don't know. And, of course, 604 00:35:25.610 --> 00:35:29.650 whenever we don't know how something works, it either makes 605 00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:33.570 us think it's false, BS of some sort. 606 00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:34.349 But you don't. 607 00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:38.719 I don't. I don't from my personal experience. I don't 608 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.679 from my experience with patients. 609 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:43.659 Does it frustrate you that there's not a mechanism at 610 00:35:43.699 --> 00:35:44.800 play that we know about? 611 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:50.860 We don't know about so much that, you know, truly 612 00:35:50.900 --> 00:35:53.760 if you get yourself caught up in all the things 613 00:35:53.860 --> 00:36:00.030 we don't know, the world seems hopeless. I'll give you 614 00:36:00.070 --> 00:36:04.750 a common example. Falling in love. Most everybody falls in love. 615 00:36:04.949 --> 00:36:09.030 You see somebody and you say hello and you're pretty 616 00:36:09.050 --> 00:36:11.610 much in love at that moment. Boom. What is that? 617 00:36:13.699 --> 00:36:14.699 We could come up with stuff. 618 00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:16.039 But we're making it up. 619 00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:19.199 So while a lot of hypnosis remains a mystery, it 620 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.969 does seem that there is something about being so completely 621 00:36:24.110 --> 00:36:29.550 focused on the words that someone tells you, so completely 622 00:36:29.710 --> 00:36:34.510 focused on the words that someone tells you, that everything 623 00:36:34.610 --> 00:36:40.170 else just fades away, just fades away. And you are 624 00:36:40.369 --> 00:36:45.710 so focused on the words that you hear that so 625 00:36:45.989 --> 00:36:50.159 focused on the words that you hear that you just 626 00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:58.280 nod your heads and you start to..... like a chicken. 627 00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:05.110 That's science versus hypnosis. This episode has been produced by 628 00:37:05.170 --> 00:37:08.710 Heather Rogers, Caitlin Kenney, Austin Mitchell, Dr Diane Wu and 629 00:37:08.769 --> 00:37:13.219 Truti Ravindran. Our senior producer is Caitlin Sori. Edited by 630 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:17.179 Annie Rose Strasser and fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Sound design 631 00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:20.360 and music production by Matthew Boll, mixed by Martin Peralta. 632 00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:23.949 Music written by Martin Peralta and Bobby Lord. Thanks to 633 00:37:24.010 --> 00:37:27.369 Alex Bloomberg for being the man that spoke pretty often 634 00:37:27.449 --> 00:37:27.869 in the end. 635 00:37:27.889 --> 00:37:29.369 It was worth hearing what he had to say. 636 00:37:30.130 --> 00:37:33.550 And Jonathan Goldstein for being our CIA agent. And if 637 00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:35.630 you like the sound of that CIA agent. 638 00:37:35.730 --> 00:37:36.750 That really surprised me. 639 00:37:36.829 --> 00:37:39.969 then you will love Jonathan's new show. It's called Heavyweight. 640 00:37:40.309 --> 00:37:43.829 You can subscribe now, Heavyweight, and hang around for a 641 00:37:43.849 --> 00:37:46.849 preview of it in just a moment. Science Versus is 642 00:37:46.889 --> 00:37:51.239 a production of Gimlet Media. Next week, we're looking at Zika. 643 00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:54.699 Should you be worried? And why is it becoming a 644 00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:00.710 big deal now? I'm Wendy Zuckerman... Back to you next time.