התמלול המלא של Making Waves with Eddie Saldana

purchase a membership for the pro card 71 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,680 because I didn't plan to compete. 72 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,800 But I was there in 2018 as well. I competed there and then I I 73 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,440 competed at that show again in 2021. 74 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,960 So that year I also won that year. 75 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,000 I did it as a pro. Actually I did it as a pro. 76 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,840 So I was, it was just me and there with Orton that year. 77 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,520 Very cool. Very cool. 78 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:44,720 Yeah. That that's always been an 79 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280 awesome show. This was the first year, this 80 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,000 past year was the first year that Aaron had taken it over. 81 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,520 And I I mean, he's he's just really organized. 82 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,840 Like he's in a military background, so everything he 83 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,760 does is very structured. And I definitely appreciate that 84 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,280 as a competitor. So yeah, it was it was super 85 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,560 cool to see him take the reins. And I mean, Kevin, Linda always 86 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,960 did great too. But Aaron, I got a lot of 87 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,760 respect for him. So it was just awesome to to be 88 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,800 a part of that and just a very cool experience all through and 89 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,000 through. Absolutely, yeah, Yeah, man, 90 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,960 absolutely. And I actually look forward to 91 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,079 competing with them, with Wolf. Now that it's Aaron's show, he's 92 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,320 now that he's a promoter, I look forward to competing there again 93 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,880 next year. I would like to do it again as 94 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,720 well as a pro. Are you planning on competing 95 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,480 next year then I guess? Yes, yeah. 96 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,520 I haven't exactly picked out like all the shows that I've 97 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,640 done do, but I know for sure I would like to do that show 98 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,800 because it's kind of a hometown show for us Washington 99 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,360 residents, the Washington State Natural like, so you're a 100 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,640 natural bodybuilder, you live here, you know about that show. 101 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,280 So I want to do that show. I would like to do Worlds as 102 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:50,120 well for WMBF Worlds next year. I've always wanted to do Worlds 103 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,720 since I first I even started looking into competitive 104 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,000 bodybuilding. I knew I wanted to be stay 105 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,320 natural, compete naturally. And I used to

see like pictures 106 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,640 of like guys like Brian Whitaker, generally just these 107 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,840 guys on stage at the at that level. 108 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,160 And I always thought like, and I wanted to be on that stage 109 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,200 someday. So, you know, after 13 years, 110 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,840 finally feel like I'm worthy enough to be on that stage. 111 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,200 So even in the past when I qualified for world, like in 112 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,280 2021, for example, everybody was trying to push me to compete at 113 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,640 worlds and I just didn't feel like I was ready to compete at 114 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,800 that level with that, you know, the caliber at bat believe that 115 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,880 show up at that stage. I was like, there's just no way. 116 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,160 But you know, I'm I'm about to be 30. 117 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,800 I'll be 30 next year when I compete. 118 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,240 And I think it's just, I think it's a good time to step on 119 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,360 stage and test myself up there. No, I mean, I think, I think you 120 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,120 would totally look like you belong up there, man. 121 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,080 Like I've seen all your Instagram pictures and you've 122 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,480 got the size. I mean, you get dialed in too. 123 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,560 So I feel like you would 100% belong up there. 124 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,960 I, I did it for the first time this past year and that was my 125 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,200 fifth show of that season. And that was too many freaking 126 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,840 shows to do in season. Man, that kicked my butt. 127 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,120 But I was so depleted at that point. 128 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,560 I've been dieting for like 33 weeks and I was lean, but I just 129 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,040 did not have the size. Like I was the lightest guy in 130 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,480 my class. And it's like you can, you can 131 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,640 be shredded all day long. And I feel like I definitely was 132 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,240 on par conditioning wise. But if you get somebody else 133 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,280 that maybe not quite as shredded, but they've got more 134 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:16,120 size, like you can't take that for granted either. 135 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,480 So I feel like I shouldn't get more size before I step back on 136 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,280 words. And what was your stage weight, 137 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:24,240 if I may ask? I'm pretty sure for that show I 138 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,800 was 153. I think for Aaron's show, I was 139 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,080 competing at 1:57 and I think it actually looked

better at 1:57. 140 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,640 Yeah. And I kind of had a similar 141 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,280 experience to that in 2021. I did when I did my first show 142 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:44,040 that season, I believe I was like 167 I want to say on stage. 143 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,280 And I did a show about a month and a half later, I did IPE 144 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,480 Worlds. So different, different 145 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,640 organization, but pretty good event as well. 146 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:58,040 And I think that was about 160, like 364 at that show. 147 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,240 And I also felt like I was the leanest I'd ever been, but I 148 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,400 lost too much sight like that. Those few extra pounds makes 149 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,440 such a such a difference in the look. 150 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,000 And I just wasn't really. Not that I wasn't happy with the 151 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,960 look, but I preferred my my look when I was a few pounds heavier. 152 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560 Yeah, no, I totally agree, man. Like my whole goal with last 153 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,880 prep was just become the leanest man alive. 154 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,360 And I was going to do that at the cost of looking ideal from a 155 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,960 bodybuilding standpoint. So I'm glad I pushed it to that 156 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,320 degree. But I think from a world 157 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,600 standpoint, for sure, I would have been much more competitive 158 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,760 had I not gone that lean and just allowed myself to put on 159 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,920 those extra 5 lbs 'cause I mean, like I was competing in the 160 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,400 lightweight category. And you're, you're typically, I 161 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,560 guess middle weight at 167, right 'cause the cut off's 165, 162 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,480 I think. I believe so, yeah. 163 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,040 Yeah, so middle weight and I mean, middle weight's a super 164 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,720 tough class. They're all super freaking tough 165 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,320 classes at that caliber. But like the more, the more 166 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,600 weights you can put on and maintain that leanness, the 167 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,440 better. Because I mean, some of these 168 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,480 guys nowadays, man, like I don't even, I don't even get it. 169 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Like the the guy that won the overall at world's this past 170 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,360 year, Brian, Like how in the world does that guy even, I 171 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,160 mean, he, he's huge, man. Like what? 172 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,280 What's his stage weight? Do you know? 173 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,440 It was somebody said somewhere that he was about 195, somewhere 174 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,200 in that range on stage. And he's like 20s, twenty, early 175 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,160 mid 20s I think if I remember correctly. 176 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,960 No, I, I think he was 33. I'm pretty sure somebody said he 177 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,760 was 33 years old, but I mean, that's still, that's still 178 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,120 relatively young, you know, to no, that's only a few years 179 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,880 older than me, but 195 on stage. You just got to think about how 180 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:37,320 like the density, how much muscle is packed onto that frame 181 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,120 because he's not a a tall guy. He's probably about, you know, 182 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:45,240 my height and probably has about 20 lbs of stage weight on me, 183 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,360 which, you know, maybe even not more. 184 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,920 It's like closer to 30, which is just free. 185 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,960 It's like, that's like Doug Miller, Doug Miller level, you 186 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,640 know, a guy who's in the one 90s on stage just shredded. 187 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,200 Yeah, it's, it's crazy, man. Like I'm 193 now in my 188 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,720 offseason. That's pretty much the heaviest 189 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,520 I ever get. And I feel like, man, there, 190 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,360 there's no, I've got a long ways to go before I'm competing it 191 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,000 this way shredded. So for people like Brian that 192 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,280 are doing it, it's just it's just impressive, man. 193 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,840 Like, I'm 32 and it's like, man, I got to I got to put in some 194 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,520 serious work in the offseason if I'm going to be competitive at 195 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,080 that level and kind of maintain that somewhat degree of 196 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,680 respectable size against these other guys. 197 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,640 Yeah, absolutely. And something that I've learned 198 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,080 about myself over the years, just being, I'm a realist, you 199 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,760 know, I, I, I know that I'm probably never gonna be that 200 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,040 heavy on stage, no matter how long I continue bodybuilding, as 201 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,880 long as I stay natural, I'm probably gonna be, maybe someday 202 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,200 I'll be somewhere in like the higher one 70s. 203 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,600 I know if I continue to pack on muscle, maybe, but I've just, I 204 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,400 don't have that density. And I've learned that to accept 205 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,760 the, to accept the, my genetic, my genetic potential, what I 206 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,800 have, my love, everything that I, that I have

available to me, 207 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,960 I just gotta utilize it the best that I can to be the best 208 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,240 bodybuilder that I can. And that may mean that I'm never 209 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,840 going to be as big as some of these other guys. 210 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,760 But, you know, you just kind of take what you have, you know, 211 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,320 just make the best of it. And that's kind of the approach 212 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,920 that I've had now, now that I've been bodybuilding for about 13 213 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,640 years. Yeah, I think that's the best 214 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,960 approach to have man, because you can only control the 215 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,160 controllables and you can't control your genetics. 216 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,400 You can just and control your environmental factors and you 217 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,520 know, like I, I don't have the genetics to be the biggest guy 218 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,400 on stage ever either. I mean, I can, I can compete to 219 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,440 be the leanest guy on stage, but I would certainly benefit from 220 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,480 more size than I've got. But you know, I can't change the 221 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,200 next I have. So you just got to make the most 222 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,240 of what you got and work with it and be at peace with it. 223 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,720 And that that's the main thing, man, like with natural 224 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,880 bodybuilding, especially, I feel like you've got time because 225 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,640 like you're seeing all these people that are competing, you 226 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,120 know, in the IFBB and they're, they're dropping dead, you know, 227 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,440 pretty early on, like 20s, thirties, 40s. 228 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,800 And you look at the people that are competing on the pro level 229 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,720 at worlds and natural bodybuilding. 230 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,680 And I mean, some of them are in their 40s, fifties, 60s. 231 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,440 So it's like you, you can play that long game approach. 232 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,000 Yeah, absolutely. And another theme with being 233 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,280 natural, I've noticed that guys push their physiques into their 234 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,800 early 40s, still making progress, still improving. 235 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,480 You kind of start to see a decline once they get to their 236 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,280 to their later 40s with a lot of guys. 237 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,880 But you don't really see that a lot of a lot of times in the 238 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,880 enhanced side of bodybuilding, you know, usually these guys 239 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,320 start to peek in their like mid 30s.

240 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,200 And there are exceptions. You know, obviously you have 241 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,240 guys like your Dexter Jackson, that other guy Kamal I believe 242 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,560 is his name, who's like 52 and still competing. 243 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:37,000 But for the most part, those guys, they, they don't have the 244 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,520 same amount of longevity as staying natural. 245 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,160 Yeah, no, I totally agree, ma'am. 246 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,560 Well, what, what got you into natural bodybuilding? 247 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,960 I mean, I'm always kind of curious to get people's take on 248 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,960 that because natural bodybuilding, there's definitely 249 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,960 like a cult following to it, but it's not nearly as known or 250 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,120 appreciated as, you know, enhanced bodybuilding. 251 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,000 So what? What got you to stick with the 252 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,760 natural round? That's a good question. 253 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,840 When I, I started lifting weights when I was about 15 254 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,560 years old and I had, I had already experienced lifting 255 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:11,080 weights even earlier than that. You know, when I was like, I 256 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,680 really want to say like 12-13, but I stopped for a little bit, 257 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,680 picked it back up around when I was like 16 and I started 258 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,360 looking more into, I remember this was around when like 259 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,400 Instagram was around right back in like 2011 when Instagram 260 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,280 started. So I was lifting weights and I 261 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,240 started following like all these bodybuilders and I came across 262 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,120 these pictures of Doug Miller at the time. 263 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,400 I remember they started circulating. 264 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,920 He was getting ready for the Yoran Cub at the time in 2014. 265 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,120 And there was these progress pictures that just were going 266 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,880 all over the place, right? They were, they were going 267 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,400 viral, I guess you say. And I saw these pictures of Doug 268 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,320 Miller and knowing that he was a natural bodybuilder, I couldn't 269 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,080 believe that drug free somebody could get their physique to that 270 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,880 level. And I was already a fan of I was 271 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,840 actually a fan of enhanced bodybuilding, the IPB before I 272 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,080 was before I even knew natural bodybuilding was a team. 273 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,760 So I was a big fan of

like high green Phil Heath, like all those 274 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,320 guys. And but I at the time lifting 275 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,480 weights and being drug free already and having no plans of, 276 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,600 you know, I mean, I was a kid. I was like, I was scared of the 277 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,760 idea of putting, putting like drugs in my body. 278 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,360 I didn't want, I wasn't even thinking about that. 279 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,360 I just enjoyed lifting weights, going to the gym, training hard. 280 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,720 And that was my love for it. It's always Stanford before 281 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,760 going to the gym and training. And I thought to myself, well, 282 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,320 I'm making pretty good progress and I just rather keep, stay 283 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,280 natural, keep it this way. I don't want to mess with any 284 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,000 any like drugs or anything like that. 285 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,240 And that's pretty much it, man. It's just always what's more 286 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,920 fascinated with seeing how far I could push it naturally. 287 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920 I feel like the, the human body is so much more capable than 288 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,080 people give it credit for. And, you know, like, I, I see so 289 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,560 many people, so many young kids get into the sport wanting to, 290 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:59,000 you know, get bigger, put on muscle, looking for ladies, 291 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,840 whatever the case may be. And they just like automatically 292 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,920 start defaulting to supplements. And that leads to, you know, 293 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,400 more, more more intense supplements, drugs, Sarms, you 294 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,920 know, steroids, things of that nature. 295 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,560 And it's like they have no idea what their body's even capable 296 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,440 of without any of that stuff. And you know, like I, I'm, I'm a 297 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,560 little skeptical about the whole idea of, you know, capping your 298 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,880 genetic potential because it's like, if you've got enough time 299 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,440 and enough intensity, then there's not really any 300 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,640 necessarily cap to them. Like you can continue to 301 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,200 progress over time, but like, there's definitely no need to go 302 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,960 the route of enhanced until you put in a good solid five years 303 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,200 minimum, I would say, especially if you're starting young. 304 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,760 So it's just, it's just sad to see all these people defaulting 305 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,440 to drugs so early on and and wrecking havoc on their health. 306 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,200 Yeah, I think a lot of kids now are also very impressionable. 307 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,200 So they go on social media, they see a lot of other younger guys 308 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,520 getting on steroids. And and it's also it's become 309 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,800 trending now too. You know, like you see all these 310 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,200 jokes about trend and this and that and that's kind of like a 311 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,840 running joke. But there's also a lot of kids 312 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,080 who are dabbling now with, you know, gear at a very young age. 313 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,840 And like when I was when I first started out, I was probably the 314 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,640 youngest man in my gym. Now you see a bunch of young 315 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,160 guys at the gym and they go on social media. 316 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,440 They see guys like Sam Zlik and no, no hate to any of these 317 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,080 guys. By the way, I'm not kind of like 318 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,040 I'm not hitting on any of these guys, but they see that and they 319 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,840 don't really realize that there's also consequences to 320 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,320 taking that route. And like you said, I think the 321 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,240 most important thing that somebody can do is stay natural 322 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 for the first few years, kind of live that lifestyle, the 323 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,560 dieting, the training. And then if you decided 324 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,040 something you want to pursue, then absolutely, you know you 325 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,720 have that choice to take that route. 326 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,640 Yeah, 100% man, 100%. Well, I want to kind of like 327 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,920 dive into some of the nuts and bolts of how you actually 328 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,880 structure things, like how you structure training your 329 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,120 nutrition, like all of that. So when it comes to, let's just 330 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240 start with with training, how do you typically train? 331 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,880 Are you doing like a, like a like a body part split? 332 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,440 I know I, I was posting something about my front squats. 333 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,640 Then you chimed in talking about doing them on the Smith machine. 334 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,280 I, I scrolled through your Instagram and like most half of 335 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,760 your videos are you doing front side Smith machines? 336 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,000 So I know you're a fan of that one. 337 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,280 Yeah, the, the reason I, I stick to the Smith machine front 338 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,000 squats is because I have I have a history of

back injuries. 339 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,760 I had a herniated disc in my low back from since I was like 15 340 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,160 and that had a big impact on the way I, I approached my training. 341 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,880 And it's over the years I've learned to work, work around it, 342 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,120 but I can't really do barbell back squats anymore without too 343 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,320 much compression in my spine. And I, I, I saw somebody doing 344 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,800 front squats. I think it must have been like 345 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Eugene Teo. This was several years ago. 346 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:57,840 And I tried them and I realized they were hard as hell and I 347 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,520 just fell in love with doing them because I still enjoy a 348 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,079 good squat movement, you know, and I can't do hack squats every 349 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:06,920 week because I like to switch it up here and there. 350 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,599 And front squats are one of some movement that I really like. 351 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,440 But as far as my approach to, to my training, I've done a lot of 352 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,480 stuff over the years. I mean, I've done like I've done 353 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,440 push pull legs, but my, my favorite style of training is 354 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,920 now over the years that it's changed. 355 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,319 I feel like it's changed. But like every few years I 356 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:27,760 realize, OK, I like training like this. 357 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,960 I really enjoy doing like one to two body parts, like one to two 358 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320 body parts per per day. Like I, I like to do legs on 359 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,560 their own and then I like to have back with like back and 360 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,840 biceps, chest and triceps. I guess some people would call 361 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,480 that a a bro split. That's kind of that kind of the 362 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,680 the way I like to pair my muscle groups together and as far as 363 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,840 Rep ranges go and stats and reps, I really like two to three 364 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,840 sets per movement. So if I'm doing like bent over 365 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,280 rows, let's say that's a pretty taxing movement, I2 to three 366 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,920 sets it it's really good. Anything's above that, like four 367 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,360 sets and on. Then I'm really starting to get 368 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,640 tacked, just really starting to get tired. 369 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,440 And obviously the sets just depend on depend on depend on 370 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,360 the muscle I'm training or the movement that I'm doing 'cause 371 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,680 if it's a big leg compound that I'm doing, I really like to 372 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,280 stick to the 15 reps and below. If I'm doing front squats, I 373 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,600 like to fix like 10 or 12 reps. I feel like that's a really good 374 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,720 sweet spot for me, but it's not always up to me. 375 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,480 I don't always train within those rip ranges. 376 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,000 Obviously there's going to be times where I'm going to be 377 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,200 doing high rip, like I'll be training up to 20 rips 378 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,200 sometimes. But that's something that me and 379 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,040 my coach usually go through when when he gets me a, a split, I 380 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,040 look it over and then I kind of have, you know, I'm able to 381 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,520 change, move things around, change things that I feel like 382 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,600 it's going to work better for me. 383 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,760 And when you're doing two or three sets of like the rows, for 384 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,760 instance, is that two and three working sets or you just, are 385 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,440 you going straight into it like, you know, throwing 185-220-5275 386 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,560 on there, like how, how are you kind of pyramiding that up? 387 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,160 So that's actually a really good question. 388 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,880 I see a lot of people who do that. 389 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,400 They'll do, they'll do theater sets and then they'll do like 390 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,520 one work instead of a top set as they call it. 391 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,800 When I look at my program and it says, you know, Smith machine 392 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,640 rows, two sets of two sets of 10, I'll warm up. 393 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,720 I always do and then I will work up to one working set. 394 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,160 It's really hard. I usually try to be about one to 395 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,680 two reps away from failure with full range of motion, good 396 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,720 technique. And once I feel like, OK, I 397 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,560 can't get another Rep, I usually stop. 398 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,960 Now there are times where I will go to failure of most of the 399 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,320 times I always stop around about, you know, where I have 400 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,160 about one or two left. And if I feel like if I exceed 401 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,320 my my Rep range goal, well then I just bump the weight up and 402 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,080 accept. And then the following week I'll 403 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,120 start heavier so that I don't exceed that goal. 404 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,720 That makes sense. Yeah. 405 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,440 But yeah, I like,

I like to, I like to do my working sets. 406 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,000 Each working set has to be like really close to failure or like 407 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,520 one Rep away with continuing. And and are you not training two 408 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,720 failure simply so that you've got enough in the tank to 409 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,800 continue to train that body part for a few more movements within 410 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,120 a day? I'm sorry, say it again. 411 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,080 And are you not going to failure simply so that you have enough 412 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,360 left in the tank to continue taxing that muscle group with a 413 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,480 few more additional exercises for that training session? 414 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,320 Yeah. And I also realized that I can 415 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,400 only go to failure so often before I start to feel run down. 416 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,160 So I'll maybe I'll go to failure like one set per muscle group on 417 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800 that given day. Sometimes I don't go to failure 418 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,040 at all during my training, Like I won't go to failure at all. 419 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,960 I'll get really close. I just found out that like I've 420 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,960 learned that going really close to failure each set, I enjoy 421 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,240 that better than, you know, taking one set to to failure 422 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,360 just as long as every set is hard. 423 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,480 I feel like I'm enjoying my workouts better that way. 424 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,520 I like, I like feeling like my workouts are hard and when I'm 425 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,720 at the gym and I'm training, I'm making every set hard. 426 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,920 That to me is a that's a good workout. 427 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,480 That's that's how I feel best mentally as well as far as not 428 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,720 just, you know, reading a piece of paper and saying, OK, let me 429 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,000 do what it says on here, but how am I feeling after the workout 430 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,400 or during the workout? So I keep those things in mind. 431 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,920 Yeah, no, totally, totally. And are you doing like multiple 432 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,680 like if you're if you're doing like back and bias, for 433 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,640 instance, are you going to be targeting back and bias an 434 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720 additional time that week or is it pretty much once a week for a 435 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,120 given body part? It depends. 436 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,760 Right now I'm I'm actually doing it twice. 437 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,640 I'm doing a well, actually, I have no choice. 438 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,360 I actually hurt my hamstring a couple weeks ago. 439 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,560 So I'm pretty much only doing upper body for a few weeks. 440 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,480 But yeah, there are times where I will do where I will do a 441 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,520 muscle group twice. But when I do a muscle group 442 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,200 twice, I will reduce the amount of volume that I do it each time 443 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,800 I train it. And that's another good example 444 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,000 of when I won't take something a failure. 445 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,600 Because if I have back one day out of the week and I have back 446 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,200 again, let's say in four days, well, I want to be fully 447 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,360 recovered by the next time I train back again. 448 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,160 So I will reduce the volume of that muscle group that I'm 449 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,640 training twice a week. And with something like biceps, 450 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,960 for instance, I feel like I could take biceps to failure 451 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,880 pretty much every time I train them and they recover really 452 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,120 fast. They're a smaller muscle group. 453 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,600 They're not as as taxing as a big compound like saying I'm 454 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,960 back. So with back I could probably, I 455 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,640 mean with biceps, I could do biceps, you know, eat three 456 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,280 times a week even and still take tests to failure and be fine. 457 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,840 Yeah, no, that's kind of similar to what I'm, I'm trying to do. 458 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,720 I'll do like a full body. I've, I've never done a full 459 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,520 body until here recently. I've always kind of done like a, 460 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,760 you know, body part split, like what you're referring to. 461 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,640 But I've been doing a full body for the past two years. 462 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,160 Did it all through my prep in 2023 and it worked really well 463 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000 because like if I'm traveling a bunch, I can just simply do, you 464 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,880 know something. I do one exercise for each body 465 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,560 part every single day, five days a week typically. 466 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,040 So if I've got like, if I'm traveling on Friday and Friday's 467 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,680 normally my back day, I don't have to worry about it because 468 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,800 I'm still hitting back the other four days a week. 469 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,040 So there's not really any holes in my workout, so to speak. 470 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,760 But I mean, the vast majority of my training history has been 471 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,320 doing

exactly what you've described, and that seems to 472 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,920 work pretty freaking well for most people. 473 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Yeah, that's cool. How do you like that doing a 474 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,800 full body day? I like it man, and I like it a 475 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,520 lot during my prep too, because like when you're depleted and 476 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,640 like if you got like a stand alone leg day and you're, you 477 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,800 know, 1700 calories and you've been prepping for 20 weeks, 25 478 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320 weeks, like is daunting mentally to go into the gym by all right, 479 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480 I'm going to slam legs today with like 5 different exercises, 480 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,640 but if you go in, you're like, OK, I've got one exercise for 481 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,320 each body part and I'm just going to chip away at it and 482 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,280 enjoy it and have a little bit of, you know, nuance to it all. 483 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,560 Like it, it keeps things a little bit more fresh and it's 484 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,480 just not as mentally taxing, I feel. 485 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,440 Yeah, I just got done with the training phase where I was 486 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,000 actually doing a full body day, but it was only once a week. 487 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,440 So I would do a full body day. I would start my week with a, 488 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,000 with a full body day. You know, I would start with the 489 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,320 legs. I'd do like a like the hack 490 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,960 squat and then I'll move on to, I remember how the program went 491 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,600 exactly, but it was, it would do like a hack squat. 492 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,440 Then I would do like a road. Then I would do like a chest 493 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,840 movement. And then, you know, there was 494 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,680 like shoulders in there and arms, I believe. 495 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,120 But it was it was pretty compact, so I wouldn't get 496 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,480 through it in about the same time frame that I would have a 497 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,400 regular workout. So it didn't feel like I was at 498 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,760 the gym for hours. And I actually really enjoyed it 499 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,080 a lot more than than I would have given credit to. 500 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,120 So in the past, I've never, I would have never been open to 501 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,000 doing a full body day. But after trying that out and 502 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,760 seeing like I would leave the gym with like a great pump, you 503 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,360 know, I just felt great walk out of the gym feeling great after 504 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:42,920 doing the full

body day. So it's something that I'd 505 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,400 probably be open to trying to get in the future. 506 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,080 Yeah, I was always talking smack about it, and then somebody was 507 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,600 asking me about it, so I figured I'd give it an honest try and 508 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,080 see. And I just fell in love with it 509 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,280 because I think as a natural athlete especially, there's a 510 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,480 benefit to be had when you increase the training frequency 511 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,240 of a given body part. So with, you know, my protocol 512 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,280 with full body, I'm training like legs are getting hit every 513 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,040 single day, five days a week. You know, that's a lot more 514 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,560 frequency than just having, you know, one leg day a week. 515 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,720 Now I'm granted any given session doesn't have that much 516 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,720 intensity for a specific body part, but you're getting it much 517 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,400 more frequently and I think that works well for me. 518 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,560 So I'm guessing you don't really get sore than if you're only 519 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,880 training the muscle Group One day a week or how does how does 520 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,280 that how do you feel after doing training pretty much every 521 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,600 muscle group every day out of the week? 522 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,200 I honestly don't really get sore at all. 523 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,000 Like yesterday I did Sumo Dead's four legs and then I had 524 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,760 somebody coming in to interview with me and I decided to have 525 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,040 him do deadlifts as part of the interview, so I did conventional 526 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,960 Dead's that same day. So that was kind of brutal. 527 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,040 I'm a little bit sore from that doing sumo's and conventional on 528 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,440 the same day. But generally speaking, I don't 529 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,120 ever really get crazy sore, But I'm, I'm like going pretty much 530 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,240 to failure on my last set of everything. 531 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,720 So I'm I'm taxing the muscles for sure. 532 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,240 I'm, I'm seeing, you know, strength improvements over time, 533 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,120 but I'm not really getting, you know, overly sore one day the 534 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,840 next. Yeah, I'd imagine you wouldn't 535 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,040 want that anyway if you're gonna be doing the same muscle groups 536 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,600 the following day. Yeah, but that's pretty cool, 537 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,320 man. That's pretty cool. 538 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,440 Have you been following along with Dirk Emmerich at all like 539 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,160 you watch his training? Yeah, absolutely, man. 540 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,120 I started following Dirk in 2021. 541 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,880 I remember he was getting ready for his first ever competition 542 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,560 season and we connected through Instagram and we we pretty much 543 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,480 chopped it up throughout our entire prep. 544 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,200 So it was pretty cool to, you know, have somebody that you can 545 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,120 interact with alongside of your prep. 546 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,600 Well, they're also getting ready for a prep. 547 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,000 And yeah, I watch, I do watch his training and and it's 548 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,160 probably the most perfect training I've ever seen. 549 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,720 He's like super slow. Like he and I competed together. 550 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,600 I shared a stage with him at worlds and I mean, he, he won 551 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,920 his, the weight class we were in. 552 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,760 So I mean, he, he brought the package for sure. 553 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,880 But like I was watching his training and he's just super, 554 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,200 super slow. Like he's doing like, I don't 555 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,480 know what his set and Rep scheme is, but it's just all very, very 556 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,320 slow, methodical methodical with every one of his movements. 557 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,360 Yeah, yeah, I've seen, I, I see his videos all the time and I 558 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,360 got to respect him for it, man 'cause that it's not easy to 559 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,600 train like that, especially for somebody like me, man. 560 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,600 When I get in the gym, I don't even think I have it able to 561 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,440 train like that 'cause I like to be, I'm, I'm also very conscious 562 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,160 about the way I execute my movement. 563 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,960 I try to be controlled, but I'm not that controlled. 564 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560 Yeah, like I like, you know, like I like going, you know, 565 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,080 faster pace, super sitting things, drop sitting things. 566 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,880 Like I like, you know, just basically I own my own gym. 567 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,440 Like I've got the ability to to be noisy and loud and move and, 568 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,840 and like, like he's just like, he's like a statue almost in 569 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,120 there. Yeah, man. 570 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,800 And that just goes to show man that there's no right or wrong 571 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,760 way to train because he

has one of the best natural physiques in 572 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,200 the world. I mean, clearly you saw how he 573 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,400 looked at last year and look at the way he trains and obviously 574 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,960 that's working out wonderful for him. 575 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,840 So you got to just got to appreciate it. 100%, man. 576 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,040 Well, Speaking of there being more than one way to do things, 577 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,680 talk to me a little bit about your nutrition. 578 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,600 How do you have that structured? I I track macros, 579 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:27,160 straightforward track macros, but it feels to me like it kind 580 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,800 of is like a meal plan because I eat about the same times every 581 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,040 day. I eat the same foods a lot, you 582 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,080 know, switch them out obviously, but just track my macros. 583 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,160 So every morning I wake up, I eat the same breakfast. 584 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,800 I usually eat my lunch around the same time every day, which 585 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,960 is usually the same lunch. I might change the protein 586 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,080 source. I might have chicken one day, I 587 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,760 might have beef the next, might have rice one day, I might have 588 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,840 potatoes the next. But same times, same portion 589 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280 sizes, same dinner at the same time. 590 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,840 And then pretty much that's the way I've always done it. 591 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,960 I started doing that when I was like 18 or 19, just tracking my 592 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,400 macros. And over the years I kind of 593 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,160 cleaned it up a bit because when I started was when flexible 594 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,000 dieting was like huge thing like, oh, if it's your macros, 595 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,160 I'm not sure if you remember those days or if you were 596 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440 following that dieting approach around that time, but that was 597 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,640 huge back then. And that's how I started. 598 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920 And I even remember I fell at the time, I used to feel like I 599 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,680 needed to put like ice cream in my diet, things like that, you 600 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480 know, and same thing now over the years, over the years, I, I 601 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,760 tend to stick more to Whole Foods, try to cut out processed 602 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,160 foods, not completely. I don't completely cut them out 603 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,200 100% of the offseason, but I do try to be a, you know, keep it, 604 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,840 keep it simple. I just prefer simplicity with my 605 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,760 diet. Yeah, no, 100% man. 606 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,040 And are you, you're tracking macros obviously during your 607 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,080 prep, but also pretty consistently throughout the 608 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,480 offseason as well, right? Yes, yeah, always. 609 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,160 Yes. And I do have a little more, 610 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,960 more freedom in the offseason. Like I'm not perfect with 611 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,080 everything in the offseason, if that makes sense. 612 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,880 I sometimes I'll go over a little bit like on my carb 613 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,400 intake. It's not like it doesn't have to 614 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560 be on the dot during prep. It's a completely different 615 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,360 story. But yeah. 616 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,320 And I, my, as far as like the, my macros are, I'm more of a 617 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,600 little bit higher carb. That's the approach that my, my, 618 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,880 my client or my client, my coach takes the higher carb, high, 619 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,120 high protein, high carb and then like moderate fats. 620 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:31,160 But like right now I'm like 6068 grams of fat, like 280 carbs. 621 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,840 And what's your protein? 240 right now. 622 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,800 OK. And you're weighing about one 623 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,480 95200 somewhere. In there, probably about low one 624 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,320 90s at the moment, about 192 I would say. 625 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,080 Nice, nice. And then when you So what does 626 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,000 that breakdown 2 calories just off top? 627 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,120 I want to say about 2600. OK. 628 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,400 And you're pretty satiated at that. 629 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,360 A little bit. I mean, I do get cravings, I'm 630 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,720 not gonna lie, because I just finished a mini cut. 631 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,600 I started that in December and it was a very slow mini cut 632 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,120 didn't until April. But I lost 25 lbs just strictly 633 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,240 from reducing calories. And I've been, we've been 634 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,320 reintroducing food now introducing more carbs now into 635 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,800 the diet, but it's been a very slow increase by the week or 636 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,480 every other week. Not every week, but every other 637 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,360 week. And so coming out of that small 638 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,360 cut, I, I have had like moments where I'm like, I'm a little 639 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,280 hungry and all then, you know, but it's not, it's nothing that 640 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,920 I can't

handle. So you. 641 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,560 Your last prep was 21 you said right? 642 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,480 Yes. So from there you reverse diet 643 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,880 up and you, you competed, you said 161 at the IPA worlds. 644 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,160 And then what would you reverse diet up to? 645 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,640 Like what'd you get up to after that? 646 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,960 Man, honestly, I, that prep took such a toll on me because it was 647 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,640 a, it was a very lengthy prep. So I remember I struggled a lot 648 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,400 with reversing after the show where I was probably gaining 649 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,480 like 5 lbs a week, every week for like the first like month 650 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,880 and a half, two months, because I couldn't stop having these 651 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,280 impulses to just binge. And I struggled. 652 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,800 I struggled a lot with that. I'm not gonna lie. 653 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,680 I struggled a lot with that. It's something that I learned 654 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,120 that I have to have a better eye on a better control on the next 655 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,920 time I get out of a prep and I start reversing. 656 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,440 I would like to have an actual more monitored reverse. 657 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,680 But I think part of the reason why I struggled a lot with that 658 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,080 reverse as well is because it was very slow. 659 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,840 Like I saw, I've seen guys who after a prep, you know, their 660 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,400 car will go from like whatever they were during their prep to 661 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,960 like 300 grams of carb today. Mine didn't, my coach didn't do 662 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,920 that with me his it was a very slow increase after, after the 663 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,280 prep and I was like, man, I was like, I'm not in prep anymore. 664 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,680 Like I just want to eat more. So I would eat more and you 665 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,720 know, I paid the price, but I just, I just didn't feel good. 666 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,160 I would, I would feel awful. Like every time I would binge, I 667 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,000 just felt horrible mentally, physically. 668 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,880 So I would like to do a proper reverse the next time around. 669 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,640 It's tough, man. Like this is something that 670 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,920 every bodybuilder deals with to some degree, but it rarely ever 671 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,800 gets talked about because it's it's not sexy to talk about how 672 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,800 much weight you're gaining or how much body fat you put on. 673 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,600 Everyone wants to talk about

how much weight to lose and how lean 674 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,320 they are with their body fat percentages when they're in a 675 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,800 cut. But like when the show's over 676 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,920 and no one's watching, it's like nobody talks about eating in 677 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,120 excess. And like I've struggled with it. 678 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,080 Every single bodybuilder has to some extent. 679 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,120 So I appreciate you being honest with me there. 680 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000 But like that, that is something that is not easy to do, man. 681 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,840 Like I think the reverse diet is more psychologically taxing than 682 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,240 the prep itself. Cause like when you're in a 683 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840 prep, like for me at least, I just flip a switch. 684 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,200 Like when I'm in prep mode, that switch is flipped. 685 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,760 Like deviation is not an option. So because it's not an option, I 686 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,080 don't even think about it. But when the show's over, it's 687 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,160 like, what's the worst that can happen? 688 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,960 Like I can, I can eat a little bit more. 689 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,600 So you do and there's just no. It's easy to go off the rails 690 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,120 for sure. I agree 100%. 691 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,080 During prep, you're, you're locked in. 692 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,160 There's a goal there. You're trying to achieve this, 693 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,840 you know, trying to get on stage and achieve this look, And once 694 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,520 that's once that's gone, like they're not even thinking about, 695 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,440 you're not even thinking about the stage anymore and it's gone. 696 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,520 And you finally feel that sense of, I get this, a sense of 697 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,560 freedom that you feel like you're not, you don't feel like 698 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,159 so confined to just eating very low amount of food. 699 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,120 You just want to eat everything inside. 700 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,040 And now that there is no show, well, you're like, OK, well, 701 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,000 what's like you said, what's the worst that can happen? 702 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,360 So that's probably the hardest thing about getting out of a 703 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,679 prep, especially if if you're like a first time competitor, 704 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,040 man, it's gonna it's gonna be hard. 705 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,199 Yeah, yeah. And I feel like, you know, it's 706 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,280 strange that reverse dieting, like outside of the bodybuilding 707 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,760 space, like it's not even talked about. 708 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,400 Like I, I work with a lot of clients that are not 709 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080 bodybuilders and I talk to them about reverse dieting and 710 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,600 ramping up their metabolic rate and, and they kind of their eyes 711 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,560 glaze over. But like in, in the bodybuilding 712 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,840 circles, it's pretty well understood. 713 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,800 And there's been a lot of controversy as of late it seemed 714 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,480 as to what the best approach to reverse dieting is. 715 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,200 Like some people are a fan of reversing slowly. 716 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,240 Some people are more so like, hey, let's just get you right 717 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,280 back up to maintenance pretty much immediately post show and 718 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000 then slowly increase from there. I think a lot of it really 719 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,240 honestly just depends on what's best for one's psychology. 720 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,040 Like I, I think, you know, for me, I like to maintain a lot of 721 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,520 the habits and routines that I implemented going into prep. 722 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,120 So I continue to do my posing practice. 723 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,440 I continue to do my same workouts and some degree of 724 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,440 cardio and I, I continue to track my intake and scale that 725 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,200 up gradually. And that works better for me 726 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,440 psychologically. But you know, it's, it's 727 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,760 different for everybody, I would imagine. 728 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,040 Yeah, like, yeah, absolutely. I think the most important thing 729 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960 is to you gotta get somebody back to like a baseline where 730 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,520 there's where they're feeling, where they're not thinking about 731 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,160 food all the time. So if they have like, I guess 732 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,840 it's gonna depend on the person. Me, I'm somebody who was very 733 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,200 food focused during prep. Like I couldn't stop thinking 734 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,640 about food during prep as then I got to a point during prep, like 735 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,000 near the end where I was, I couldn't stop thinking about 736 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,480 what I was going to eat after the show. 737 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,920 And I know that's not a good a good way to, you know, to feel 738 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,920 going into a show. It's like a bit, what am I going 739 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,360 to eat after? But it's also because during the 740 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,120 prep I was so like you said, you know, I was just so locked in. 741

00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:26,160 I couldn't, I was not going to deviate from the plan at all. 742 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,400 I was like dotted every I crossed all my TS. 743 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,960 I was perfect. And then after prep I was like, 744 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,160 OK, cool. Now I could just, I should be 745 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,720 able to eat more And when I didn't, when I realized that I 746 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,960 couldn't just eat whatever I wanted, it was actually it 747 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,320 turned on me because now I just, I was binging. 748 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:51,040 So if I think the next time around after a prep, what, what 749 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,680 I think I should do just for me at least would be to right off 750 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,960 the bat probably have like a couple 100 extra grams of carbs 751 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,320 per day and just make that like my baseline for a while. 752 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,120 So instead I would have like if I was eating 100 grams of carbs 753 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,720 like near the end of my prep, now I'd be eating like 300 or 754 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:13,200 400 grams of carbs and just stay at that amount of food for a few 755 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,760 weeks, a couple of months and make no changes to it and see 756 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,520 how that works out. I think I would have a better 757 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,280 like psychologically I would feel better and have a better 758 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,200 control on everything and I probably wouldn't binge as much 759 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,760 as I did last time. Yeah, and 100%, man, I think 760 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,480 like the types of foods make a big difference. 761 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,480 Like for me, you know, I'm doing strict keto with everything. 762 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,680 So like after my show, like I went to Brazilian steakhouse and 763 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,920 just ate a ton of meat, you know, and I think that helps a 764 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,280 lot because without the without the massive spike in blood 765 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,400 sugar, you don't have the, the crazy volatile swings and 766 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,760 cravings and, you know, hunger cues. 767 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,040 So I think that helps, at least does for me for sure. 768 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520 But most competitors are obviously using carbohydrates. 769 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,600 So I think doing something like that would make total sense. 770 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520 Absolutely, man, I've never, I've never tried keto. 771 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,400 I've heard about it, but I've always hitting a carb guy. 772 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,640 But I was actually curious to ask you what made you want to 773 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,520 take that approach and live that lifestyle, do keto and just you 774 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,120 know, and, and how long have you been doing it? 775 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,760 Man, I have not had a carbohydrate meal in like 8 or 776 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,320 nine years now. Wow. 777 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,920 Yeah, like no rice. No, that's impressive. 778 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,840 None of that. And honestly for me, like I 779 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:29,320 started because after my SO, my first prep was in 2012, didn't 780 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,400 have a clue what I was doing. I bulked up to 230, lost 80 lbs 781 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,840 in 12 weeks from my first show and did everything wrong. 782 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,280 Lost a bunch of muscle, developed a bunch of eating 783 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,960 disorders afterwards. And I did that for like my first 784 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,360 three competitions. And then I was like playing 785 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,360 around with all different kinds of diets, trying to get a better 786 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,200 relationship with food and figure out how to make it 787 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,800 sustainable. I started doing keto before keto 788 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,280 was really popular and that was back in 2014, two 1015. 789 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,000 And for me, it really just improved my overall relationship 790 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,160 with food. I can, I can moderate my hunger 791 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,640 much better. I can like actually know what 792 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120 true hunger and satiety felt like as opposed to not. 793 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,560 And so I just cut out the carbs completely pretty much from then 794 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,240 on out, from then on out. And I tried competing for the 795 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,680 first time in 2017 with a ketogenic approach and I got 796 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,760 leaner than I'd never gotten. I felt better. 797 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,400 I didn't lose it near as much strength or lean tissue, so I 798 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,880 was pretty much sold on it from that point forward and I've just 799 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,840 always done it ever since. Yeah, and I'm sure when you're 800 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,760 eating, when you're not eating carbs at all, you probably are 801 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,680 less likely to have those those binging episodes because man, 802 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,800 like carbohydrates, man like the sugar and everything like that. 803 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,160 It's just different, man. It's I feel like that has AI 804 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,440 guess it's just more appealing. You just want to stuff your face 805 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,240 more and if you're eating higher fat foods is just not the same 806 00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,200 'cause you're more satiated when you're eating the

foods that 807 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,720 you're eating. Yeah, and I feel like your 808 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,880 hormones appreciate it more because like from a, from a 809 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,280 hormonal standpoint, like if you're not eating hardly any 810 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,520 fat, like like cholesterol and you know, saturated fat, like 811 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,880 all that is like the precursor 2 testosterone and two proper 812 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,120 hormone levels. So like, if you have hardly any 813 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,000 fat coming in and you're super depleted, those numbers are all 814 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,920 going to be jacked up. And yeah, I mean, you can 815 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,240 definitely still gain body fat without carbs, but it's, it's 816 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:25,440 not like, like binging on 5000 calories of cookies and ice 817 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,120 cream is different than binging on 5000 calories of, you know, 818 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,720 chicken breast and 8020 ground beef, you know? 819 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,240 Yeah, absolutely, man, so but. I don't know, there's 820 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,480 definitely, I mean, people have been getting lean, you know, 821 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,200 with, with bro dieting, flexible dieting, there's a lot of 822 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,200 different ways to get lean. So it's kind of really just a 823 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,720 matter of what's more sustainable for, for the 824 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:51,840 individual. But I, I hope that keto 825 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,960 bodybuilding kind of gains more momentum because I certainly 826 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,280 think it would, you know, be very effective for a lot of 827 00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,400 people. I've worked with a lot of people 828 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,640 and it seems to work well with them because like, like we were 829 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,480 saying earlier, man, like so many people struggle with the 830 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,840 food addiction standpoint of it post show especially. 831 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,720 And I feel like if there's any way to mitigate against that, 832 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,800 then then that should be a goal for sure. 833 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,160 Yeah, absolutely. And I saw that you do a you are 834 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,600 a keto brick. Well, tell me a little bit about 835 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,560 that man. I was actually kind of curious 836 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,280 to ask you about it and find out more. 837 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,200 Yeah, so you know, you know how like backstage, everybody's 838 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,800 sucking down rice cakes. Yeah, I have all the time, man. 839 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,240 So the keto brick is kind of like my version of a rice cake. 840 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:39,160 So I made that for my 2017 prep and since I'm keto, like I'm 841 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,840 getting my energy from fat, not from carbs. 842 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,560 And I'm getting, you know, I'm having to fill out my muscle 843 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,160 glycogen with fats and proteins from the glycerol backbone of 844 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,280 the fats and from the amino acids from the proteins, not 845 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,840 from carbohydrates. So that is how I'm feeling that 846 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,760 that's how I'm getting energy. That's how I'm getting a little 847 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,720 bit of extra sodium in to draw in that fluid into the muscle 848 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,040 tissue and outside of that subcutaneous layer of skin. 849 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,640 Like that is my backstage method for providing energy and filling 850 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,760 out and just bringing that crisp package. 851 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,280 And I never planned on it being a product that I sold it just I 852 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,200 was documenting my prep and people kept asking about it on 853 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,040 my YouTube channel. So I decided to roll up my 854 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,680 sleeves and, and turn into a product and it just kind of took 855 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,640 hold ever since. But yeah, it's, it's 1000 856 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,160 calories ketogenic. The main ingredient is cacao 857 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,960 butter. So really high source of stearic 858 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,040 acid, really easily digested fat source. 859 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,240 And yet we we make those and ship them all over the world. 860 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080 That's pretty cool. And so eating So what food 861 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,440 sources are like, you know how you say for carbs, there's like 862 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,240 certain foods that you could eat that I guess you could pay for a 863 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,480 pump. Well, what would you eat like 864 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,160 backstage before you know you're going to a show? 865 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,880 It would be just that, just the keto break. 866 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:54,080 Yeah, So like my, my, my peaking strategy is pretty much like I 867 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,360 don't manipulate my water at all. 868 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,800 Like I'm literally drinking a gallon of water before I step on 869 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,280 stage. Like not immediately before, but 870 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,800 like before I step on stage that day, I probably had a gallon of 871 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,000 water in me already, which is different, different than a lot 872 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,040 of people. A lot of people are cutting 873 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,120 water. I don't do any of that. 874 00:43:09,120

--> 00:43:13,000 Like I'm staying hydrated the whole time and the night before 875 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:17,480 I'm having an increase of fat and protein over my baseline 876 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,000 intake. So for instance, I think during 877 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,440 this last prep, my my calories got down to like 17/18/19 878 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,440 hundred somewhere in there. And then on the Friday before 879 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,920 the show, I would have probably 2526, twenty, 800 calories 880 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,280 coming from just more fat and protein. 881 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,280 And I'm normally making like a keto pizza. 882 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,920 So like the crust is made with almond flour and cheese and I'm 883 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,960 having like 250 grams of fat, whereas everybody else is having 884 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,360 like 2-3 hundred grams of carbs. So that's what's giving me 885 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,040 energy and filling me out the next day. 886 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,000 Plus I'm having a little increase in sodium as well. 887 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,680 So I was having like 15,000 milligrams of sodium the night 888 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,760 before. And do you, do you feel like 889 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,800 following the keto diet during a prep? 890 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,280 Do you feel like it's still that? 891 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,600 Does it keep you more satiated as to what if somebody was 892 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,400 eating carbs and relying on carbs to get their energy? 893 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,200 Or do you think you're still with as long as you're eating 894 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,640 the lower calories you're still going to struggle with like 895 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,280 energy and appetite over time? I mean, you're still hungry for 896 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,160 sure. Like, I, I mean, the keto diet's 897 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,400 amazing, but it's not like a, it's not like a miracle. 898 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,120 Like you're still gonna be hungry when you're, when you're 899 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,640 sub 5% body fat and you're taking in fewer calories than 900 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,720 normal. I mean, you're, you're gonna be 901 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,880 hungry no matter what diet you're following, but there's 902 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,280 not gonna be near the flux in blood sugar levels because 903 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920 you're not having the carbohydrates or sugars or 904 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,560 anything like that. So like my, my blood sugar stays 905 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,760 consistently between 70 and 90 at all times. 906 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,600 I mean, it spikes a little bit when I'm training, but that's 907 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640 normal. But it's not like changing at 908 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,680 all with the foods I'm eating and changes in blood sugar, 909 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,040 changes in blood insulin, like that's what's causing a lot of 910 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,240 shifts in hunger and energy crashes and whatnot. 911 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,520 So I can pretty much bypass all of that. 912 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,880 And I'm typically only eating, you know, when my calories get 913 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,360 below about 2200, I switched to one meal a day. 914 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,640 So I'm only eating once a day. And I think not thinking about 915 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,000 food all the time also really makes it more satiating because 916 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,560 if you're eating 456 meals a day and you eat one meal and you're 917 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,760 just thinking about your next meal, like you're just in a 918 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,720 constant state of, you know, food fixation. 919 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,880 And if you can bypass that, then you can do away with a lot of 920 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,200 that hunger. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine 921 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,000 trying that out. But also you just, you never 922 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,560 know, I guess I've been following the same approach to 923 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,080 my dieting for so long now that I feel like the only way that I, 924 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,800 I can do it. But you just never know until 925 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,360 you try something different. And like you said, you know, 926 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,440 you've been doing it for eight or nine years, so it works out 927 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,280 really well for you. Shoot. 928 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,400 Man, you ever want to try you let me know brother, I'd be 929 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000 happy to help. I don't know, man, I don't know. 930 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,080 I feel like I, I don't know, I look too forward to too much 931 00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,840 forward to like my, like my refeeds. 932 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,360 And there's certain foods like, oh, like I'll me and my 933 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,040 girlfriend always talk about where are we going to go out to 934 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,320 eat this weekend for our refeed because she's also a competitive 935 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,880 figure athlete. And so we kind of live a very, 936 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,360 you know, pretty much live the same lifestyle. 937 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,800 We have the same coach, we have the same training, we similar 938 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,920 dieting. So kind of just the same thing, 939 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,200 man. So we kind of get excited about 940 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,200 little things like that, but. No, that's good. 941 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,040 For sure. That's good. 942 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,760 It's

good. You got someone in your corner 943 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,560 doing the same thing with you living the lifestyle. 944 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,360 Like I can't imagine being with someone that is not, not 945 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,600 necessarily they don't both have to compete, but like not into 946 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,560 health, not in training. Like that would just be very 947 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,440 challenging. Yeah, I have to have like 948 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,840 similar habits. I feel like it helps a lot, man. 949 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,120 And, and I I know what you mean. I I've seen it where's one 950 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,600 person in a relationship is completely like all about the 951 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,520 bodybuilding life thought the other person isn't. 952 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,000 And you know, they might have conflicting views on things and 953 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,080 you know, it's, it's a lot like things are. 954 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,960 It's pretty smooth and nice when the banks are on the same page 955 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,440 about a lot of things like that. So. 956 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,720 Totally, totally. So, So talking a little bit 957 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:06,600 about the how you've got things structured. 958 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,640 So you did your last show in 21. You're going to compete next 959 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:15,400 year, SO25 and NO20. What year are we in? 960 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,440 We're in 2024. 20 yeah, yeah, 25 minutes. 961 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,040 Here, so, So are you. You bulked up. 962 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:26,720 What was the heaviest you got? I got up to 215 two 15216 right 963 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,600 around December of last year. And what do you think your body 964 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,080 fat was then? I was up there, man. 965 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,520 I had, I don't know exactly. I'm not really good at 966 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,680 estimating body fat levels, but I was probably I teens, you 967 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,480 know, like 19% and I got down to 119190. 968 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,680 I got down to about 190 in April and I've, I've, I've been 969 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,800 fluctuating around 19192 ever since. 970 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,560 I haven't, my body's really stubborn. 971 00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:01,440 So the way like if I start losing weight and I hit, I get 972 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,120 to my goal, my weight's gonna stay at that, at that range for 973 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,600 a while. Like I don't have to just keep 974 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,000 adding food, adding food, adding food until I finally break out 975 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,200 of that, you know, being stuck in that spot. 976 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,600 And right now I've been stuck in this spot for about two months 977 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,520 now. So but it's not, you know, I 978 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,520 feel good. I feel great. 979 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,960 Workouts are great, energy is great, appetite is, you know, 980 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,560 fine. And you said you're at about 981 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,040 2600 calories now. I might, I might be a little bit 982 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,520 over. I might be 2700 I 26 and 2800 983 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,680 somewhere in that range. I I know it's changed reasonably 984 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,320 so, but it's it's up there. It's under 3000 for sure. 985 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,520 And what was your intake when you were at the 215 Martin, do 986 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,840 you know? Say I was like close to 4000. 987 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,920 I was pretty, I was up, I was up. 988 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,760 I was eating about 530 grams of carbs a day. 989 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,960 Proteins were very similar to what they are right now, so they 990 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,920 were probably like between 2:40 and 260 and I think my fats were 991 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,960 probably closer to like 90g and so I was close to about $4000. 992 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,480 What was the goal for the mini cut? 993 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,400 Did you just feel like being that heavy was hindering your 994 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,360 training performance? Well, I was pretty much red 995 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,320 lighting my body, man. I mean, I was at a point where I 996 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,320 wasn't out if any more weight out again, I was just going to 997 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,160 get fatter. And my, my body composition was 998 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,120 already, you know, I was a little bit uncomfortable at that 999 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,080 point. I was starting to get to the 1000 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,640 point where I was feeling a little bit uncomfortable. 1001 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,400 I'm OK with gaining enough weight where I don't, I can't 1002 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:30,800 see my eyes. I feel strong. 1003 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,920 But then, you know, after so long, you just have to kind of, 1004 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,560 you have to make that shift. You have to start cutting down 1005 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,400 again and then build back up, you know, and that's, that was 1006 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,520 feeling. I was at that point, I was 1007 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,840 probably bulking for about a year and I got to that. 1008 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,720 I got to that weight and it was time to bring it back down. 1009 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,680 Yeah. And when you were doing the mini 1010 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,760 cut, what was the lowest you took your calories down to? 1011 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,000 Like 221 hundred 2000. Like the low 2000s.

1012 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,880 Gotcha, gotcha. So still not near as low as 1013 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,040 you'd probably take it in an actual prep then. 1014 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,200 No, well, actually I, I remember my carbs were about 100 and like 1015 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,000 70 at the end of my mini cut, which is not far off from where 1016 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,040 I would get during the prep during the prep like I know my 1017 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,840 carbs get down to about 1:40 at the lowest, not including like 1018 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:29,040 peak week and I was, but surprisingly I wasn't I wasn't 1019 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,960 like having like major like hunger episodes during that mini 1020 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,600 cut. I felt fine and I didn't really 1021 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,800 lose any. I lost a little bit of strength, 1022 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,080 but I felt fine. I felt great. 1023 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,560 So it was, it was overall, it was a very smooth, very smooth 1024 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,840 mini cut. And from here, like right now 1025 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,840 from here where I'm at, I'm gonna talk. 1026 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,360 I talked with my coach. We're just gonna reintroduce 1027 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,480 food like carbs, like I was telling you earlier and get to a 1028 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,760 point where I'm not like Pete Bulk, but I'm also not too lean 1029 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:00,920 'cause I got I got a little lean. 1030 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,400 And we're gonna set up starting point for prep for next year. 1031 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,080 I like it, I like it. Do you? 1032 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,280 Do you know how lean? Like what? 1033 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,080 Any idea what your body fat was at the depth of that mini cut? 1034 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,840 Like 12 percent, 10%. Yeah, I was probably, yeah, I 1035 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,520 was probably about, I want to say like 12%, eleven percent. 1036 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,440 I I could never really see my abs like in the offseason and I 1037 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,080 could see even now, I could still see my abs pretty good. 1038 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,720 I see a lot more lines and details around the weight that 1039 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:28,640 I'm at. So I'm probably about even right 1040 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,640 now. I'm probably like 1213% body 1041 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,240 fat. Nice, nice. 1042 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,400 Yeah. I feel like modulating between 1043 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,720 those is key. Like, I think, you know, as a 1044 00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:41,240 natural bodybuilder and I'm so glad that WNBF changes, but 1045 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,200 like, they're allowing us to compete, you know, much longer 1046 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,080 between shows that we don't lose our pro status, that we can just 1047 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,640 maintain our membership dues. Like, they made that shift last 1048 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,640 year, which is just a great transition because I think, you 1049 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,200 know, incentivizing competitors compete every single year, every 1050 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,080 other year is oftentimes just too frequent. 1051 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,760 I mean, like, you and I both, we take pretty long preps. 1052 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,600 Like my last prep is 33 weeks. You said you did a long prep as 1053 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,520 well. Like when you're prepping for 1054 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,400 that long and then you reverse that out of that, Like, you 1055 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,040 don't have any year left to build more size. 1056 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,200 And as a natural, like, you have to have enough time to build 1057 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,960 size to actually look different the next time you step on stage. 1058 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,160 So yeah, I think, you know, giving yourself that ample time 1059 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,200 to be in a build and then not dipping into those, you know, 1060 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,760 poverty macros and doing like a prep too frequently is key. 1061 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,360 But yeah, modulating between that higher range of what a 1062 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,360 healthy build phase is to the lower range then kind of backup 1063 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,400 I think is is a good idea. I'm probably going to do the 1064 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,920 same thing myself. Like right now I'm 193 and for 1065 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,360 me that's about 1718% body fat. So pretty much on the upper end 1066 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,880 of what I would deem acceptable for me in the build phase. 1067 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,240 And I think I'm going to try and titrate that down to about 12% 1068 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,880 body fat and then just go from 12 back up to 18 and just kind 1069 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,240 of keep cycling between that window, but between now and the 1070 00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,720 next time I start a prep. And do you have any idea when 1071 00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,960 your next prep will be when you plan to compete again? 1072 00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:09,880 Man, I'm going to do a long build phase 'cause I after 1073 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,040 competing the world's, it's like next time I compete at world's, 1074 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,520 I'm going to win world's Like I, I don't want to just go and step 1075 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:16,800 on stage like I want to go to win. 1076 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,720 And I know for me, in order to do that I've got to put on more 1077 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:22,080 size. So I'm probably going to take 1078 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,360 like a legit five

year building phase. 1079 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,960 Yeah, you know, I mean you we kind of have the same like the 1080 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,160 similar approach to the way like competing. 1081 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,120 There's people that compete every year, natural bodybuilders 1082 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,720 talking about they compete every year now just don't see how you 1083 00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:42,120 can make, you know, great like greater strides in progress 1084 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,520 competing every year as opposed to taking a, you know, minimum, 1085 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,720 minimum two year offseason. But even two years is, you know, 1086 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,120 it's not as can't make as much progress as you would in a three 1087 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,360 or four year offseason. So that was the that I was the 1088 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,800 same way when I competed in the in 2021 and people were telling 1089 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,880 me to do worlds. And I was like, I just, I don't, 1090 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,040 I don't, I wouldn't be happy with what I would bring to that 1091 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,400 stage. And so I took the offseason from 1092 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,520 the last 2-3 years now almost before I decided I yeah, I think 1093 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,400 I'm ready to compete again. Nice. 1094 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,840 That's the way to do it, man. Are you going to compete at a 1095 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,000 few shows and then make Worlds the final show or are you going 1096 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,840 to just go for Worlds or what are you thinking there? 1097 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,440 For sure I want to do, I want to end it with World's Washington 1098 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,520 State Naturals obviously going to be on that list. 1099 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,240 As far as other shows, I haven't thought, you know, that that I 1100 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,480 could think outside of the WMBF as well. 1101 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,920 I know there's a lot more shows going on now, but I haven't 1102 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,920 really looked into it. Man, I, I would like to do more 1103 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,440 than those two shows, though. I would like to do like at least 1104 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,720 three shows and I don't want to take this really long offseason 1105 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,840 to just do one or two shows. I would like to do multiple 1106 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,320 shows, but we'll see how that how that turns out. 1107 00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,600 I'll probably put a plan together when I start my prep 1108 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,680 next year. And are you willing to travel 1109 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,920 pretty good ways for shows? Yeah, yeah, man, I actually 1110 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,280 traveled that prep. I went to Missouri to compete at 1111 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:14,840 IPE Worlds and that was a very spontaneous decision that I 1112 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,760 made. I what was it? 1113 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,400 I was supposed to do some shows that I never ended up doing that 1114 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:27,360 season and my coach brought it up to me IPE worlds and he he's 1115 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,840 good friends with the promoters of a lot of those shows because 1116 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,960 he's in that area where there's a lot of IPE events that take 1117 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,760 place out there. He talked to me about it and 1118 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,880 there was a like a two week, like a two week, two weeks 1119 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,120 before the show and that was there was still enough time for 1120 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,560 me to to get ready for it or to register for it and everything 1121 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,120 like that. So we everything was last 1122 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,560 minute, but we got it all taken care of and it was it was fun, 1123 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:51,680 man. It was a great experience. 1124 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,560 That was the that was the person had traveled for a show. 1125 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,760 I'm I'm over at Washington. Yeah, no, that's awesome. 1126 00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,160 I hate that. I didn't know you were at the 1127 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,280 Washington show. I'd love to, would, would, would 1128 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,640 love to have met you in person there. 1129 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,640 Well, I was at worlds too. I know I I didn't, I didn't see 1130 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:06,880 that either. I guess you would have been in 1131 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,760 the audience though. Yeah. 1132 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,760 But yeah, man, we definitely got to cross our path. 1133 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,560 I think Aaron's competing next year as well, right? 1134 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:16,920 Yeah, yeah, he is. He is. 1135 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,920 And I was actually joking with him about. 1136 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,200 I was like, I guess we're going to run it back. 1137 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:21,480 I like it. Who? 1138 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,200 Who won that last one? Was it you or him? 1139 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,720 I won. I won on a like I want to say 3 1140 00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,720 judges scorecards or something like that, and some judges 1141 00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,560 actually gave it to him. So it was a split decision. 1142 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,920 It was a really close show. Yeah, and he he had like what, 1143 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,760 1015 lbs on you or so? I think it was even more than 1144 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,400 that man. I think it was like closer to 1145 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:43,920 20. I know he was like in the low 1146 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,680

one 80s. I want to say he was like 183 or 1147 00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,200 something on stage. He was, he was, he's a big guy 1148 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,360 man, especially being on stage next to him. 1149 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,160 I was like, holy shit, this guy, this guy's huge. 1150 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,920 So that is crazy. But I, I, I also competed 1151 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,040 alongside of Bada. You know Bada, right? 1152 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,840 He was a he. He did a the heavyweight class 1153 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,720 at worlds. I, I've never met him in person, 1154 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,520 but yeah, he, he's a freaking beast. 1155 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,120 There's so many really impressive natural bodybuilders, 1156 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,640 man. Like people that that don't have 1157 00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,600 a clue what's possible naturally, like staying look, 1158 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,560 they start looking at some of these competitors like it's hard 1159 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:20,760 not to just be blown away. Yeah, and a lot of people 1160 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,400 wouldn't believe that some of these guts are natural. 1161 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,920 But those are people who don't follow the space of bodybuilding 1162 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,680 at all, fitness or natural bodybuilding. 1163 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,640 They don't know what can be achieved. 1164 00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,840 If you train hard and you follow a diet for years and years and 1165 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:38,000 years on end, you don't slack off, you'll be amazed with what 1166 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,400 you can achieve. And I just wish more people 1167 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,400 would realize that, you know, I mean, there's people that would 1168 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,160 look at guys like you and me, people who don't even touch 1169 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,920 weights and they would be like, oh, those guys are on steroids. 1170 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,800 And that's just that's always been frustrating for me to like 1171 00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,280 I don't even bother trying to convince those people, but I 1172 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,880 just wish more people were were aware of what they could achieve 1173 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,760 if they actually followed a a diet plan and worked out. 1174 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,200 Totally, man. I mean, I got down to 151 last 1175 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,080 year. If I was weighing in at 151 and 1176 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,720 taking steroids then I'm doing something wrong. 1177 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,440 Yeah, that's true, man. But no, 100% agree, man. 1178 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,600 I'm super passionate about the sport. 1179 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,080 It's awesome talking to other people like yourself that 1180 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,920 compete in the sport.

And I haven't told this to 1181 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,320 anybody yet. Aaron, I think knows, but I'm 1182 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,880 actually going to be hosting a show, a debut NBF show next 1183 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,680 year. And if you're willing to travel 1184 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,920 to Arkansas, man, I would love to have you at my show. 1185 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,960 Yeah, what? What, what time frame? 1186 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,360 Like what are we looking at? What calendar? 1187 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,200 I'm trying to get it structured such that it would work out time 1188 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,120 frame with worlds. Like probably it's going to be 1189 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,720 like late September if all goes well. 1190 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,520 So that's pretty much as early as I can feasibly make it and it 1191 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,400 still be within, you know, a reasonable time frame for 1192 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,800 competitors that want to do the world showing. 1193 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,680 I'm still waiting to hear back from some venues right now, but 1194 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,320 I would love to kind of have it structured somewhere in that 1195 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,640 time frame so it would still be feasible for people wanting to 1196 00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,440 do Worlds. Well, I want to say Congrats on 1197 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,240 taking a step forward with doing that man. 1198 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,800 I'm sure running a show this is, it is Nazi and easy man. 1199 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,480 There's a lot of PDQS that go into it. 1200 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,080 So hopefully that works out for you man. 1201 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:08,880 And if you do, let me know man, I'd love to do it. 1202 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,800 Yeah, 100% man. I will definitely keep it you in 1203 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,920 the loop and if if the timing works out, I'd love to have you 1204 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,320 love to have you there, man. Well, where are you located? 1205 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,320 I'm in Arkansas. I'm in northwest Arkansas, so 1206 00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,560 not far from your Missouri show. Oh. 1207 00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,760 OK, yeah, definitely, man. I mean, I'd be willing to travel 1208 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,080 for it. Beautiful. 1209 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,280 I'm trying to get Aaron to come to. 1210 00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,160 I don't know if he's going to be competing, but y'all can kind of 1211 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,600 battle it out there. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's 1212 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,120 competing next year. I'm, I'm pretty sure I've seen 1213 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,680 him already mention it and we already talked, we already joked 1214 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,080 about, you know, like the rematch or whatever, just 1215 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,000 messing around. But that'd be, it'd be cool to 1216 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,640 compete even over there, you know, and hopefully there's a, a 1217 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,880 decent turn out because at the Washington state natural that 1218 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,680 year, it was just him and I and there were a couple guys that 1219 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,200 dropped out like two weeks or so or like a week before the show. 1220 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,080 Just days before the show. There was like a couple guys 1221 00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,880 that dropped out, which is it was kind of a bummer because I 1222 00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:59,680 think I, I want to compete with the best. 1223 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,240 I want to compete with good guys on stage. 1224 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,000 You know, I don't want to just show up and just be me and you 1225 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,960 know, me and another guy, but. At least it was Aaron, you know, 1226 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,840 worthy competitor. He was really good bodybuilder. 1227 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,840 Yeah, I feel like, you know, that's what you want, man. 1228 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,240 Like you're, you got to compete against the best to be the best, 1229 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,320 you know, and, and it's, it's much more respectful if you're 1230 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,600 doing that. And like, like Lionel, like, you 1231 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,040 know, he and I battled it out way back in 2015. 1232 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,360 And I would love to convince him to get back on stage because I'd 1233 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:25,680 love to be up there again with him. 1234 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,560 So maybe I'll be able to twist his leg enough to do so. 1235 01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,480 Well, I mean, I even last year when a world man, when I saw 1236 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,120 the, the lightweight class walk out on stage, like I was just 1237 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,520 blown away, man. Like you guys completely covered 1238 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,000 the stage. I was like how many? 1239 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,240 I don't even know how many guys there were there. 1240 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,280 There must have been close to 15 guys on stage and I, I was just 1241 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,560 blown away. I was like, holy shit. 1242 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,640 I've never seen anything like that other than after 1243 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,320 bodybuilding event. So it was really cool to watch 1244 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,080 that. I hated it though, because there 1245 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,200 were so many competitors that they had to break us up into two 1246 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,000 groups and have like half in the front, half in the back and then 1247 01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:04,120 swap and like I was just in the back, you know, holding that, 1248

01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,480 you know, relaxed. Yeah, I remember. 1249 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,560 I do remember not. Relax. 1250 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,640 And I'm like, man, I'm, I'm fatigued back here, just doing 1251 01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,960 my relax, but I want to be upstage, you know, posing. 1252 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,000 So that was almost like too many competitors. 1253 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,160 Yeah, that's true, man. I guess maybe they just have too 1254 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,800 many qualifying events for the show. 1255 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,640 And I know that they trying to they maybe they want a bigger 1256 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,720 turn out, but maybe that's something that they could they 1257 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,880 got to think about, you know, for the following following 1258 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,920 events for Worlds. I don't know, it'll, it'll be 1259 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,200 good that whatever they wound up doing, it was just awesome to be 1260 01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,240 a part of. And I've got no doubt that 1261 01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:38,800 you're going to absolutely freaking kill it when you 1262 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,280 compete at worlds. So I'm, I'm excited for you, 1263 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,360 man. Oh, thank you, man. 1264 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,000 I look forward to it, man. It's a very competitive show the 1265 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,480 next year. You know, I like to think about 1266 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,400 watching that show was like, where would I have placed? 1267 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,640 Where would I have placed? But I guess I I will never 1268 01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,800 really know so best I can do is just continue training and prep 1269 01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,040 for it for the next year and see who shows up and how it turns 1270 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,800 out and enjoy the experience man. 1271 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,680 So everything else is out of my control. 1272 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,320 All I can control this from what I do. 1273 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:07,920 That's the only way to do it, man. 1274 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,240 You got to just be the best that you can be and let the chips 1275 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,920 fall where they may and and be at peace with that outcome. 1276 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,800 As long as you know you're giving your best effort then 1277 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:16,680 then you can be at peace with whatever happens. 1278 01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,520 Yeah, I had that talk with my coach a lot during my last prep. 1279 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,920 I was a little bit younger and I was more focused on like, oh, 1280 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,720 you know, how am I going to do at the show? 1281 01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,520 What place am I going to get? And I would bring it up to him 1282 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,120 and he would tell me like, hey, man, look, at the end of the 1283 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,680 day, you can't control what the judges like judges or everything 1284 01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,680 is speculative. All the judges, the judges might 1285 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,360 think this guy is worthy of winning first place or you're 1286 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,320 winning worthy of winning first place, but it doesn't matter. 1287 01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,640 You can't think about that. All you can control is what you 1288 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,320 do, the work you put in, how you show up, Everything else. 1289 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,480 Don't worry about it. There are factors that you 1290 01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,200 cannot control. And it opened up my eyes a lot, 1291 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,960 man, to competing and everything else. 1292 01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,680 So I've, I've applied that mindset to, you know, any other 1293 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,960 show that I've done since or that I'm gonna do, I'm always 1294 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,200 gonna think about it like that. That's the way to do it, man. 1295 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,200 I mean, that's why I think it's such such a mental sport, more 1296 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,120 so than a physical sport. So obviously a physical sport, 1297 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,960 but I mean, like what you gain from it mentally, 1298 01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,360 psychologically, emotionally, like that transcends the sport 1299 01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,800 itself and bleeds into every other area of your life. 1300 01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,600 So I feel like bodybuilding is a great vehicle for just overall 1301 01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,800 self development. Yeah, and you said something 1302 01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,200 earlier, man, that that stood out to me. 1303 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,280 You said the next time you do Worlds, you're going to win. 1304 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,440 And I've always had that same the the the same like instinct 1305 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,400 in me where if I compete, I want to win. 1306 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,600 I don't want to just show up to just to participate. 1307 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,240 I want to win the show or I at least want to win my class. 1308 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,680 Yeah. But I I have, yeah, I have that 1309 01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,600 same, that, that same like driving forcing me for the next 1310 01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,680 time I compete. So I like that. 1311 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,040 Well, we, we gotta coordinate, man. 1312 01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,200 I mean, if you're competing next year, I'm probably not gonna 1313 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,280 compete again until 20. Who knows when, it'll be a 1314 01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,040 while. I'll be like 37 years old next 1315 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,520 time I compete. But we gotta

coordinate. 1316 01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,200 We'll have to compete at the same time. 1317 01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,200 That'd be. Fun. 1318 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,000 Oh yeah, absolutely man. And natural bodybuilding, man, 1319 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,880 it's it's only getting bigger. You just keep seeing these 1320 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,280 freaks coming out of from like from all these different places. 1321 01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,960 So it's only getting more and more competitive. 1322 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,960 So you know, along the way, there's going to be a lot of 1323 01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,280 you're going to meet a lot of great people. 1324 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,400 And I think it'd be great to compete with a little like 1325 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,440 connecting with people like you and yourself, you know, like 1326 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,680 that's like Dirk, you know, that's who I've met from other 1327 01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,200 countries that also compete. You know, we can all come 1328 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,800 together and compete at a show, at an event like worlds. 1329 01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,960 And that's, that's always been something special to me about 1330 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,720 natural bodybuilding. You know, it's like it's more 1331 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,520 close knit as opposed to like the enhanced side, which is a 1332 01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,480 lot more broader. Yeah, yeah. 1333 01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,560 I think the camaraderie is key, man. 1334 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,480 Like, like we're all trying to be the very best we can be. 1335 01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,480 And when we're on stage, we're trying to rip each other's heads 1336 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,600 off. But it's also met with this, 1337 01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,240 like, underlying mutual respect. Like you, you want the other 1338 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,320 person to bring their best package so that you have that 1339 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:02,640 much more, you know, confidence in who you are and and pride and 1340 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,720 what you've accomplished if you best them. 1341 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:06,720 But like, you want everybody to bring their A game. 1342 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,320 You're not trying to undercut anybody. 1343 01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,320 You're trying to backstab anybody. 1344 01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,200 You're trying to like, enjoy the journey with them and build each 1345 01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,680 other up so that everybody is the best that they can be. 1346 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,840 Yeah, and when I I've been to shows and I've been backstage 1347 01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,120 and I've seen guys who I know I could just tell by looking at 1348 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,440 them that they did not put in the work. 1349 01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:24,640 I mean, granted, it might, it

might have been like an amateur 1350 01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,960 show, but I just could never understand. 1351 01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,520 Like, how could you take the time to pick this event out, 1352 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,160 start a preparation for it and not give it your all? 1353 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,000 Like, why would you not want to show up at your best? 1354 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,120 Why would you do that to yourself? 1355 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:37,840 Like you're going to do this. You got to give it everything, 1356 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,360 man. Even if you know that you have 1357 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,600 you don't have the best genetics. 1358 01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,080 You don't have the best this, the best that you got to do 1359 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,920 everything you can Leave no stone unturned. 1360 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,400 That's the approach that I've had to every prep that I've done 1361 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,480 and it's only going to continue to stay like that for every prep 1362 01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,720 that I do in the future. Amen to that man. 1363 01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,680 I mean, you just keep getting better like it's, it's it's a 1364 01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,440 journey for sure. It's not like a one and done 1365 01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,440 thing. It it never there is no finish 1366 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,000 line. There is no off switch like it's 1367 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,520 always on. It's just the degree to which 1368 01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,000 you were on. But there's always a goal. 1369 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,920 There's always something you're striving to maintenance is a 1370 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,120 myth. Like you're you're getting 1371 01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,360 better with every day that passes. 1372 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,120 Yeah, and and that's like, I guess that's the reason why we 1373 01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,800 choose to compete. I mean, we're bodybuilder at the 1374 01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,360 end of the day. We love the last night, We love 1375 01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,520 the training. Everything that comes with being 1376 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,680 the bodybuilder and competing is just like, I guess it's just you 1377 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,880 kind of set a goal within the goal, you know, so when you're 1378 01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,920 already doing this, like you're going to the gym, you're 1379 01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,880 training and now you set a goal, OK, I'm going to do this. 1380 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,560 This show, you kind of like you have that television, you get 1381 01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:34,120 locked in and that's exciting, man. 1382 01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,160 It's exciting to have a purpose and do the work towards a. 100%, 1383 01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:38,960 ma'am. Well, I'm super excited for you. 1384 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,800 I'm excited to watch you grace the stage at World's next year 1385 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,880 and I will definitely be making a point to come out there and 1386 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,320 support. And let's definitely keep in 1387 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,400 touch, man. I'd love to get you out of my 1388 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,080 show. I'd love to get you back on the 1389 01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,160 podcast after the competition or during the prep because I just 1390 01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:54,400 love talking about this stuff, man. 1391 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,160 So I can't thank you enough for jumping on here today. 1392 01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:58,960 Oh, well, thank you, man. Thank you for thank you for 1393 01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:00,600 having me, man. I really appreciate it was a it 1394 01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,520 was very out of the blue, you know, but you know, here we are 1395 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,720 having this conversation. I appreciate you taking the time 1396 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,920 to also reach out to me and have this conversation. 1397 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:10,680 Yeah, my pleasure, man, my pleasure. 1398 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,040 Where do people go to find out more about you and follow along? 1399 01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,880 Just just my Instagram really man. 1400 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,640 Which is Eddie Double under score 1995. 1401 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:21,640 Awesome. Well, I will link that to that 1402 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,000 and make it easy for people to find you. 1403 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,880 And I'll put one of your stage shots in the show notes so 1404 01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,760 people know that you're freaking jacked and doing everything 1405 01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,800 right. And we'll keep in touch, man. 1406 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,040 There's everything I can do for you, brother. 1407 01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,800 You just let me know, hey? I appreciate you rubber man, 1408 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,040 good looking up. You bet. 1409 01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,000 See you, Eddie. See you bro.