התמלול המלא של Espadrilles: From Neolithic Farmers to Naguisa [Ep:5]

game. 83 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,680 So it's tied 2-2. 84 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,240 We're locked into the game. 85 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,220 We're like, "We're gonna finish this game. We're gonna go get ice cream. What 86 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:10,820 a time to be alive." All of a sudden just game switches off, sitting in the dark. 87 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:17,924 We're like, " Oh, right." Power was out from Friday afternoon to Monday night. 88 00:03:17,993 --> 00:03:18,703 . Yoana: That long? 89 00:03:18,803 --> 00:03:19,353 Chandler: Yeah. 90 00:03:19,473 --> 00:03:19,843 I felt so bad for my in-laws. 91 00:03:20,826 --> 00:03:23,786 So we, ended up sleeping at a family's member's house, 92 00:03:23,846 --> 00:03:25,306 cause, it was over 100 degrees. 93 00:03:25,316 --> 00:03:26,636 Like, you can't… It's crazy. 94 00:03:26,736 --> 00:03:27,106 Yoana: Yeah 95 00:03:27,178 --> 00:03:29,998 Chandler: and then of course on my drive home, which was, a nine-hour drive, 96 00:03:30,058 --> 00:03:31,778 the AC stopped working in the Jeep. 97 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:32,488 But it was fun. 98 00:03:32,498 --> 00:03:34,618 Honestly, I'm complaining more than I should be. 99 00:03:34,618 --> 00:03:35,388 It was a good fourth. 100 00:03:35,388 --> 00:03:35,628 Yoana: Yeah. 101 00:03:35,728 --> 00:03:39,328 I read your texts in your voice, I wasn't, sure a lot of your intonation 102 00:03:39,328 --> 00:03:43,028 throughout the weekend, 'cause I was like, "Which phase is she at with where this 103 00:03:43,038 --> 00:03:47,468 is at?" but we're back, and your hair looks great, so that's all that matters 104 00:03:47,568 --> 00:03:48,428 Chandler: No more nightmares. 105 00:03:48,528 --> 00:03:49,178 Yoana: No more nightmares 106 00:03:49,278 --> 00:03:51,408 Chandler: ready to talk about some espadrilles 107 00:03:51,508 --> 00:03:51,888 Yoana: Let's do it 108 00:03:52,188 --> 00:03:53,048 Chandler: I'm excited for this one. 109 00:03:53,108 --> 00:03:56,535 It's different than others we've done in a couple different ways. 110 00:03:56,585 --> 00:04:00,845 Feel like this is the first truly unisex moment we've had. 111 00:04:00,935 --> 00:04:05,835 Pleats, there were a few, but but I feel like espadrilles it's really truly unisex. 112 00:04:05,935 --> 00:04:10,275 I don't wanna spoil too much, but I feel like a lot of our other topics go from 113 00:04:10,285 --> 00:04:15,088 one wealth direction to the other, and this one kind of follows the opposite 114 00:04:15,098 --> 00:04:17,068 trajectory, which is a little bit fun. 115 00:04:17,168 --> 00:04:19,088 so maybe I'll just hop us into some history. 116 00:04:19,188 --> 00:04:22,478 So I'm gonna just define what an espadrille is, in case 117 00:04:22,478 --> 00:04:23,798 you have yet to hear of them. 118 00:04:23,818 --> 00:04:27,468 And then after that I'm going to walk us through the history, which 119 00:04:27,468 --> 00:04:32,638 starts in Spain, and then spreads through the rest of the Mediterranean, 120 00:04:32,698 --> 00:04:34,278 up into France a little bit. 121 00:04:34,378 --> 00:04:38,365 And, will end us with some players across the sea. 122 00:04:38,365 --> 00:04:43,365 So espadrille's definition is they're a lightweight, casual summer shoe 123 00:04:43,405 --> 00:04:47,675 featuring a flexible sole made of woven rope or braided fibers. 124 00:04:47,695 --> 00:04:50,775 The fibers could be jute or a certain kind of grass we'll 125 00:04:50,775 --> 00:04:52,625 talk a lot about called esparto. 126 00:04:52,705 --> 00:04:57,735 And then a soft upper typically crafted from cotton canvas or fabric, and they 127 00:04:57,735 --> 00:04:59,995 come in both flat and heeled styles. 128 00:05:00,095 --> 00:05:02,878 Our story here, it's interesting. 129 00:05:02,928 --> 00:05:07,958 we talked about in pleats the Tarkhan dress is the oldest woven textile 130 00:05:07,958 --> 00:05:09,378 piece of fashion history that we have. 131 00:05:09,378 --> 00:05:14,468 That remains true, but espadrilles takes us even further back than ancient Egypt. 132 00:05:14,468 --> 00:05:18,555 It starts 6,000 years ago in Granada, Spain. 133 00:05:18,565 --> 00:05:21,401 So we're in the Cueva de los Murciélagos. 134 00:05:21,411 --> 00:05:26,271 which means Cave of the Bats, which is in Albuñol, Granada, Spain. 135 00:05:26,371 --> 00:05:30,411 So, basically they discovered this collection of ancient artifacts in this 136 00:05:30,411 --> 00:05:36,091 cave, and then they were re-dated in 2023, and one of the items that was 137 00:05:36,091 --> 00:05:39,941 re-dated was this collection of woven footwear in which they discovered 138 00:05:39,941 --> 00:05:43,781 that they were about 2,000 years older than was originally understood. 139 00:05:43,881 --> 00:05:48,611 these shoes are 6,200 years old, making them among the oldest 140 00:05:48,611 --> 00:05:50,351 surviving shoes in Europe. 141 00:05:50,451 --> 00:05:54,341 And they were woven from this fiber called esparto, which is a type 142 00:05:54,341 --> 00:05:59,101 of grass, which is the root of our modern-day word espadrilles. 143 00:05:59,201 --> 00:06:03,611 But esparto grass is a tough fibrous grass from the Mediterranean that's 144 00:06:03,611 --> 00:06:07,421 been traditionally used to weave these shoes, it's indigenous to 145 00:06:07,421 --> 00:06:09,808 Southern Spain and Northern Africa. 146 00:06:09,908 --> 00:06:12,368 what's really interesting about these is this predates written 147 00:06:12,368 --> 00:06:13,855 history by about 1,000 years. 148 00:06:13,855 --> 00:06:18,299 So this really shows that people in Iberia had an ancient tradition of weaving. 149 00:06:18,369 --> 00:06:21,299 It was a material that was used for a lot of different things. 150 00:06:21,409 --> 00:06:25,339 and those shoes are kind of the precursor to today's espadrille and then that 151 00:06:25,339 --> 00:06:30,629 moves us along to the Bronze Age to the Roman period, when esparto really 152 00:06:30,629

--> 00:06:34,789 becomes one of the Mediterranean's most valuable natural materials. 153 00:06:34,889 --> 00:06:39,219 the Romans used it for a lot of stuff, so that's rope, baskets, ship rigging, 154 00:06:39,219 --> 00:06:41,709 floor mats, sandals, military equipment. 155 00:06:41,709 --> 00:06:44,239 it's funny, Pliny the Elder actually discussed it in his 156 00:06:44,239 --> 00:06:48,129 book Natural History and just how useful it was during Roman times. 157 00:06:48,179 --> 00:06:51,849 there's this funny anecdote about how basically he complains about 158 00:06:51,849 --> 00:06:56,249 it because it spreads so easily that once it's in a landscape, it's 159 00:06:56,249 --> 00:06:57,569 basically impossible to get rid of. 160 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:02,112 Pliny says, "It belongs to a dry soil, and all the blame for it attaches to 161 00:07:02,112 --> 00:07:05,962 the earth, for it is a curse of the land, and nothing else can be grown or 162 00:07:05,962 --> 00:07:09,638 can spring up there." so he's basically like, it's everywhere, it's kind of 163 00:07:09,638 --> 00:07:13,178 annoying, but at the same time it's really valuable, so you can't hate it too much. 164 00:07:13,278 --> 00:07:13,805 Yoana: It's like taking, I don't know, the way that you would think about an 165 00:07:13,805 --> 00:07:14,998 invasive species or something and how 166 00:07:17,948 --> 00:07:18,681 they just spread. 167 00:07:18,681 --> 00:07:21,551 I mean, like blackberry is really invasive in California. 168 00:07:21,561 --> 00:07:22,761 It spreads like crazy. 169 00:07:22,861 --> 00:07:27,491 But it's cool 'cause they found something that shows up everywhere, not even maybe 170 00:07:27,491 --> 00:07:32,291 even by human action, but just by probably human movement unknowingly, and then 171 00:07:32,291 --> 00:07:34,051 they find a way to make it all useful. 172 00:07:34,051 --> 00:07:37,811 Chandler: Yeah, esparto is not necessarily more durable than other natural grasses, 173 00:07:37,811 --> 00:07:42,635 but it fares a little bit better in the salt . So it does eventually start 174 00:07:42,635 --> 00:07:45,545 cracking if it gets too much salt in it because it basically makes it 175 00:07:45,545 --> 00:07:50,255 continually expand and then dry back down, which can weaken the fibers over time. 176 00:07:50,335 --> 00:07:54,255 But esparto does a bit better with salt than a lot of other grasses and 177 00:07:54,255 --> 00:07:57,635 fibers, so that's why they used it for everything including sea rigging. 178 00:07:57,735 --> 00:08:03,345 that kind of tradition of those woven shoes continues up until the 11th to 179 00:08:03,345 --> 00:08:07,325 the 13th centuries, which is when we get the first true what we would think 180 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:11,035 of today as espadrilles, so kind of moving beyond just that precursor shoe. 181 00:08:11,035 --> 00:08:14,285 there's this, surviving municipal ordinance that regulates the 182 00:08:14,285 --> 00:08:16,875 manufacture of espadrilles from 1322. 183 00:08:17,615 --> 00:08:20,245 this is a document that was written in medieval Catalan 184 00:08:20,295 --> 00:08:21,325 and refers to espardenyes, 185 00:08:23,389 --> 00:08:27,159 which is a word that comes from espart, as in esparto grass. 186 00:08:27,259 --> 00:08:31,662 The suffix enya makes the word a noun, so it essentially means the shoe made of 187 00:08:31,662 --> 00:08:36,986 esparto And the modern-day translation of that medieval Catalan would be espadrille. 188 00:08:37,086 --> 00:08:41,456 the translation is, " It was ordered that the espadrilles be well made and made 189 00:08:41,456 --> 00:08:45,946 of good esparto." And then it continues on and cites requirements for the shoes, 190 00:08:46,046 --> 00:08:50,536 which include 26 stitching points in each shoe, 11 cords across the top of 191 00:08:50,536 --> 00:08:52,816 the foot, and four cords at the heel. 192 00:08:52,916 --> 00:08:56,006 and it basically orders that any espadrilles that are sold that 193 00:08:56,006 --> 00:08:59,096 fail to meet these standards would be confiscated and burned. 194 00:08:59,196 --> 00:09:00,276 I think that's crazy. 195 00:09:00,376 --> 00:09:02,136 Yoana: What makes good esparto? 196 00:09:02,236 --> 00:09:05,236 Chandler: Yeah, I mean, it's really difficult to turn from a 197 00:09:05,236 --> 00:09:08,886 raw material to a finished shoe because it's very labor-intensive. 198 00:09:08,986 --> 00:09:11,936 You have to dry it correctly, weave it correctly, all those things. 199 00:09:11,986 --> 00:09:15,496 this ordinance shows us that these were already worn so much that they needed 200 00:09:15,496 --> 00:09:19,296 the government to regulate how they were made because there was competition 201 00:09:19,296 --> 00:09:23,356 amongst people making the shoe, and they needed to be regulated to prevent 202 00:09:23,386 --> 00:09:25,372 consumers from being taken advantage of. 203 00:09:25,372 --> 00:09:28,969 the demand was really high, and that's why they had to have these 204 00:09:28,989 --> 00:09:32,679 ordinances in place to make sure that they were of the correct quality. 205 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,489 these were, , entrenched in daily life for the Spaniards. 206 00:09:36,489 --> 00:09:40,719 The people wearing these, it's farmers, children, all families that 207 00:09:40,719 --> 00:09:43,909 are of the working class are wearing these as their day-to-day shoe. 208 00:09:44,009 --> 00:09:46,319 Reason being, they're cheaper than leather. 209 00:09:46,469 --> 00:09:50,199 leather doesn't fare that well in that climate because if it gets too hot, then 210 00:09:50,199 --> 00:09:54,369 it gets stiff, and then if it gets wet, it can take multiple days to dry out. 211 00:09:54,379 --> 00:09:58,669 So this grass really fares a lot better along the Mediterranean near the sea. 212 00:09:58,719 --> 00:10:02,229 so that's why they favored these over a leather shoe. 213 00:10:02,229 --> 00:10:04,349 Yoana: Well,

it's interesting 'cause, a lot of the things that 214 00:10:04,349 --> 00:10:07,379 we've talked about in the past, I feel like there was this theme. 215 00:10:07,379 --> 00:10:11,249 We talked about it with lace collars, with pleats, um, about, like, sumptuary 216 00:10:11,249 --> 00:10:14,979 laws and how they put rules on a class of what they could and couldn't wear. 217 00:10:15,079 --> 00:10:17,789 And in a way, this ordinance is kinda flipping it. 218 00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:20,209 you're talking about the shoe, it's incredibly functional. 219 00:10:20,239 --> 00:10:25,439 It's a pivotal part of the trade in Spain, and you need the population to 220 00:10:25,449 --> 00:10:29,839 be in, shoes that are, in a way, like, allow them to do their work, right? 221 00:10:29,849 --> 00:10:33,712 it almost feels like the government is protecting a class that in the 222 00:10:33,722 --> 00:10:37,935 previous episodes we had talked about experienced sumptuary laws 223 00:10:38,015 --> 00:10:41,785 to stop them from, expressing themselves with a certain garment. 224 00:10:41,785 --> 00:10:45,465 And here it's ensuring that the garment is effectively, good enough for them. 225 00:10:45,565 --> 00:10:47,075 So kind of a flip, right? 226 00:10:47,175 --> 00:10:51,485 Chandler: Yeah, I mean, these ordinances existed for many common household goods. 227 00:10:51,495 --> 00:10:54,825 So you would see the same for, like, flour or bread. 228 00:10:54,925 --> 00:10:54,945 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 229 00:10:55,019 --> 00:10:59,029 Chandler: And so the fact that there was one placed for these shoes just, 230 00:10:59,129 --> 00:11:00,849 again, shows how entrenched they were. 231 00:11:00,859 --> 00:11:04,909 To your point, these laws exist, but it's for different products in different ways. 232 00:11:05,059 --> 00:11:08,609 Sumptuary laws, it's really to protect the interests of the upper class, 233 00:11:08,609 --> 00:11:10,299 whereas this one, it's opposite. 234 00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:12,299 And the upper classes weren't wearing these at all. 235 00:11:12,299 --> 00:11:15,479 what's interesting, too, I mentioned that the esparto is also 236 00:11:15,479 --> 00:11:17,109 indigenous to Northern Africa. 237 00:11:17,209 --> 00:11:21,949 alongside that medieval Catalan word, the espardenyes, we have the 238 00:11:22,223 --> 00:11:27,483 Spanish word alpargata which entered Spain through Andalusi Arabic. 239 00:11:27,553 --> 00:11:33,963 So it basically comes through the word albargat, which refers to a peasant shoe. 240 00:11:34,013 --> 00:11:39,036 So word reflects centuries of Islamic influence in the Iberian Peninsula, 241 00:11:39,186 --> 00:11:41,326 and it's hard to exactly translate. 242 00:11:41,326 --> 00:11:44,416 Historians are kind of cautious with giving it a precise translation, 243 00:11:44,426 --> 00:11:47,946 But it basically is, again, peasant shoe or a shoe meant for everyday 244 00:11:47,946 --> 00:11:49,716 wear among the working class. 245 00:11:49,796

--> 00:11:54,246 and so that word is referring to who wore the shoe rather than the material that it 246 00:11:54,246 --> 00:11:56,736 was made from, as opposed to the Catalan. 247 00:11:57,236 --> 00:12:01,966 the prefix al- was added to an older pre-Roman Iberian word, to form that. 248 00:12:01,966 --> 00:12:06,746 So it's a cool linguistic split, only because it kind of shows in Spain, 249 00:12:06,746 --> 00:12:10,533 you have these differences because of the Andalusi and the fact that 250 00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:14,483 there was all of this Arabic influence coming in it basically shows these 251 00:12:14,513 --> 00:12:18,153 two parallel cultural traditions that are describing the same shoe, 252 00:12:18,153 --> 00:12:19,583 but they do it in different ways. 253 00:12:19,693 --> 00:12:23,843 and yeah, it interestingly follows the map of who was ruling what territories 254 00:12:23,893 --> 00:12:26,293 and where that word was used, even though they meant the same thing. 255 00:12:26,393 --> 00:12:33,263 Yoana: Today we got to espadrille how did we land on that exact form being the 256 00:12:33,263 --> 00:12:35,233 translation that is used across the board? 257 00:12:35,333 --> 00:12:39,353 Chandler: So if you look up alpargata, you're still gonna get results for 258 00:12:39,353 --> 00:12:41,383 shoes, and they're still espadrilles. 259 00:12:41,383 --> 00:12:43,173 It's still a relevant word, alpargata. 260 00:12:43,283 --> 00:12:46,273 yeah, I just thought that was cool 'cause I also love Granada. 261 00:12:46,323 --> 00:12:48,723 we went there on our honeymoon, so it was fun to kind of learn a 262 00:12:48,723 --> 00:12:49,993 little bit more about the city. 263 00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:53,353 we kind of know exactly what these look like because of that municipal 264 00:12:53,363 --> 00:12:56,643 ordinance, we know they had the braided esparto sole, an upper attached by 265 00:12:56,643 --> 00:13:00,913 stitching, a heel section, and a system of cords that were securing it to the 266 00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:04,413 foot, which is pretty close to what a modern-day espadrille looks like. 267 00:13:04,413 --> 00:13:09,243 but these were handmade by special craftsmen, which were espardenyers, 268 00:13:09,343 --> 00:13:11,683 which translates to espadrille makers. 269 00:13:11,773 --> 00:13:16,913 And from this time, so starting in, 1100s up until the 15th century, 270 00:13:17,013 --> 00:13:20,683 it's peasants, shepherds, vineyard workers, fishermen, laborers are 271 00:13:20,683 --> 00:13:22,503 all wearing these on a daily basis. 272 00:13:22,533 --> 00:13:26,213 Reason being, they're cheap, they're easy to repair, and then it's made 273 00:13:26,213 --> 00:13:29,253 of local materials, so you don't have to rely too much on trade to 274 00:13:29,253 --> 00:13:31,373 get the goods you need to make them. 275 00:13:31,423 --> 00:13:33,963 Yoana: today, we see a lot of different designs on these. 276 00:13:33,983 --> 00:13:37,353 But, in the beginning when they are so common, you know, what's, 277 00:13:37,353 --> 00:13:39,603 like, the most common color here? 278 00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:42,393 What's, the original espadrille format? 279 00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:45,213 Chandler: What's hard about these is the old ones from the 280 00:13:45,313 --> 00:13:47,203 Batcave, are such a one-off. 281 00:13:47,213 --> 00:13:50,003 We don't have a lot of surviving examples of what these looked 282 00:13:50,003 --> 00:13:52,223 like from, 11 and 1200s. 283 00:13:52,333 --> 00:13:55,803 but my understanding is the canvas would've been a natural color. 284 00:13:55,803 --> 00:13:57,013 They weren't really dyeing them. 285 00:13:57,113 --> 00:14:02,203 And original ones, like how it's talked about in the municipal 286 00:14:02,203 --> 00:14:05,933 document, I don't think necessarily had canvas that was attached. 287 00:14:05,983 --> 00:14:09,363 they're held onto your foot by those ropes that they mentioned, the cords. 288 00:14:09,463 --> 00:14:12,293 then, yeah, I think the colors were pretty natural. 289 00:14:12,343 --> 00:14:16,003 and they're made mostly of just the esparto stitched together. 290 00:14:16,103 --> 00:14:19,243 Yoana: Okay, so you're not even, in these early versions, you're not even 291 00:14:19,243 --> 00:14:23,423 seeing really canvas or anything, it just is mostly these cords 292 00:14:23,523 --> 00:14:24,823 Chandler: Yeah, that's my understanding. 293 00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:30,123 I think, you're starting to get a little bit of the canvas on the toppers by 15th 294 00:14:30,183 --> 00:14:35,603 century, 16th century, but not similar to what it would look like in the traditional 295 00:14:35,613 --> 00:14:37,043 versions that are still relevant. 296 00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:40,923 so by the late Middle Ages, production's becoming more specialized, and it- 297 00:14:40,943 --> 00:14:44,793 they basically go from like a household craft to a specialized trade which 298 00:14:44,793 --> 00:14:46,823 were made in these family workshops. 299 00:14:46,833 --> 00:14:50,063 So families would specialize in different parts of the process. 300 00:14:50,113 --> 00:14:51,443 I'll kind of paint you the picture. 301 00:14:51,603 --> 00:14:54,779 Imagine you're in a Catalan village in 1750. 302 00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:57,259 You have one family that's responsible for twisting rope. 303 00:14:57,319 --> 00:14:58,889 Another braids the soles. 304 00:14:58,989 --> 00:15:00,779 A third stitches the uppers. 305 00:15:00,809 --> 00:15:03,319 The children help prepare the fibers after the harvest. 306 00:15:03,319 --> 00:15:06,329 They help with the harvest, and then neighbors sell the finished 307 00:15:06,329 --> 00:15:08,139 shoes at the weekly market. 308 00:15:08,289 --> 00:15:11,539 So it's kind of something that A big portion of a lot of these villages is 309 00:15:11,539 --> 00:15:16,159 taking part in because it's actually a specialized enough skill that it requires 310 00:15:16,199 -->

00:15:20,059 multiple people who are are very good at different parts of the process. 311 00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:22,089 sewing was often done by women at home. 312 00:15:22,139 --> 00:15:26,599 By the 15th to the 17th centuries these are spread through a lot of 313 00:15:26,599 --> 00:15:28,809 the Iberian Peninsula and further up. 314 00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:31,979 So basically the Crown of Aragon, basque Country and then 315 00:15:31,979 --> 00:15:34,169 across the Pyrenees into France. 316 00:15:34,179 --> 00:15:36,729 So the French Basque Region, Occitania. 317 00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:38,109 They're being worn everywhere. 318 00:15:38,109 --> 00:15:42,249 So they're very ubiquitous and different regions are developing different styles. 319 00:15:42,259 --> 00:15:45,639 So to your question earlier kind of what the colors would be, Here is when we start 320 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:47,219 to see those distinctions being made. 321 00:15:47,219 --> 00:15:51,789 so the classic Catalan version is called the espardenya de vetes 322 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,969 which means espadrille with ribbons. 323 00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:58,299 And it basically is white or natural canvas, a braided esparto 324 00:15:58,309 --> 00:16:02,429 sole, long cotton tapes, and then ribbons wrapped around the ankle. 325 00:16:02,529 --> 00:16:06,329 And that's associated today with, kind of the national dance of 326 00:16:06,498 --> 00:16:08,666 Catalonia which is the Sardana dance. 327 00:16:08,776 --> 00:16:12,616 But these are a cultural garb for a lot of these regions throughout Spain, 328 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:15,106 France, cause they were so common. 329 00:16:15,206 --> 00:16:19,426 in Valencia they have another local variety where they basically were 330 00:16:19,426 --> 00:16:23,366 incorporating colored embroidery, different ribbon arrangements, and 331 00:16:23,366 --> 00:16:25,386 then the canvas upper was cut higher. 332 00:16:25,446 --> 00:16:26,716 so they're just more colorful. 333 00:16:26,786 --> 00:16:31,836 And then the Basque version generally became known as the alpargata and it 334 00:16:31,836 --> 00:16:36,186 featured darker canvas, heavier soles, and simpler decoration, which I think 335 00:16:36,186 --> 00:16:40,836 is just honestly a reflection of what was more practical for the landscape 336 00:16:40,846 --> 00:16:43,615 of the Basque region versus Catalonia. 337 00:16:43,896 --> 00:16:47,276 Then we get to the 18th century, when the color itself starts 338 00:16:47,276 --> 00:16:48,546 to kind of carry meaning. 339 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:52,656 These are worn so often that people started to have different versions that 340 00:16:52,656 --> 00:16:54,620 they would use for different occasions. 341 00:16:54,630 --> 00:16:59,210 So a natural white you would use for church, for weddings and festivals, 342 00:16:59,250 --> 00:17:02,520 and then black would be reserved for field work and everyday labor. 343 00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:05,700 we get more and

more of these regional examples with red ribbons, blue 344 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:09,780 ribbons, woven stripes, embroidery, there's a lot of them so I'm not gonna 345 00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:13,173 go through the whole list, but every region has its own version that's kind 346 00:17:13,173 --> 00:17:14,893 of part of their cultural identity. 347 00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:19,053 But yeah, so over this, these 500 years, not many changes until we 348 00:17:19,053 --> 00:17:23,123 get to the 19th century, which everything kinda starts to evolve. 349 00:17:23,213 --> 00:17:25,813 So there's kind of a couple things that happen here. 350 00:17:25,823 --> 00:17:29,423 There's the material revolution where we move from esparto to jute. 351 00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:33,039 There's a manufacturing revolution where these move from home workshops 352 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,639 into more of a factory setting. 353 00:17:34,739 --> 00:17:37,439 And then there's kind of this cultural revolution. 354 00:17:37,539 --> 00:17:42,059 But basically as great as esparto is It's still a little bit stiff. 355 00:17:42,179 --> 00:17:43,739 It's hard to harvest. 356 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:48,329 It's very labor-intensive to prepare, and there's variables in the quality 357 00:17:48,339 --> 00:17:52,079 depending on the rainfall of the year and the growing conditions. 358 00:17:52,179 --> 00:17:55,929 There's a lot of demand by the 1800s, and there's kind of this bottleneck in 359 00:17:55,929 --> 00:17:57,959 the process being caused by esparto. 360 00:17:57,959 --> 00:18:01,249 Then we get the British Empire, beginning in the 19th century, we 361 00:18:01,249 --> 00:18:05,149 have all of this jute from Bengal, which is modern-day Bangladesh and 362 00:18:05,159 --> 00:18:07,269 India, that's arriving in Europe. 363 00:18:07,379 --> 00:18:11,299 basically Britain had established this huge colonial trade network, and by the 364 00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:16,029 mid-1800s, raw jute was being shipped in huge quantities back to Europe. 365 00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:19,869 In Dundee, Scotland in particular was getting a lot of jute to the point where 366 00:18:19,869 --> 00:18:22,758 it became known as Jutopolis in Europe. 367 00:18:25,158 --> 00:18:25,378 And 368 00:18:25,558 --> 00:18:25,988 Yoana: funny 369 00:18:26,018 --> 00:18:29,468 Chandler: That's where they would do the processing of this jute into yarn 370 00:18:29,478 --> 00:18:32,738 and rope that would then be exported across the continent to Spain and 371 00:18:32,738 --> 00:18:34,588 France, where the espadrille makers are. 372 00:18:34,688 --> 00:18:36,658 jute kind of gave a few advantages. 373 00:18:36,678 --> 00:18:37,798 It was cheaper. 374 00:18:37,898 --> 00:18:41,278 Its fibers were longer and more uniform, which made them easier 375 00:18:41,278 --> 00:18:45,598 to spin into consistent cord, it produced a softer, more flexible sole. 376 00:18:45,648 --> 00:18:50,318 It wasn't like immediately overnight jute's replacing esparto, but by the late 377 00:18:50,318 --> 00:18:55,498 19th century it had pretty much become the preferred material for many manufacturers. 378 00:18:55,608 --> 00:18:58,945 Yoana: Well, on that point, this jute is coming into Britain, but 379 00:18:58,955 --> 00:19:03,965 you're still sending it to espadrille makers in Spain to make this. 380 00:19:03,975 --> 00:19:09,245 So, to me, It feels almost like the shoe in itself is evolving, but 381 00:19:09,245 --> 00:19:12,755 it is still tied to that heritage because it's not like Britain starts 382 00:19:12,775 --> 00:19:15,115 producing espadrilles made from jute. 383 00:19:15,125 --> 00:19:18,935 you are still looking at Spain as the home of where these are. 384 00:19:18,985 --> 00:19:19,255 Chandler: Yeah. 385 00:19:19,275 --> 00:19:23,145 So it's Spain and France, and I wouldn't say… mean, it's kind 386 00:19:23,145 --> 00:19:26,855 of the same story that's told with globalization across different industries 387 00:19:26,905 --> 00:19:28,255 with lots of different products. 388 00:19:28,305 --> 00:19:31,405 for these people that are making these, this is their livelihood, so 389 00:19:31,405 --> 00:19:35,555 they're not too worried about, oh, is this true to the Spanish heritage? 390 00:19:35,605 --> 00:19:37,435 They're working to meet demand 391 00:19:37,535 --> 00:19:37,835 Yoana: Yep 392 00:19:37,935 --> 00:19:40,755 Chandler: trying to be as efficient as possible while doing so. 393 00:19:40,785 --> 00:19:44,405 And then jute was just better suited to what they were making. 394 00:19:44,555 --> 00:19:47,265 so it's kind of like once that material becomes available, 395 00:19:47,365 --> 00:19:48,585 why wouldn't you use it? 396 00:19:48,695 --> 00:19:51,755 because the fibers are longer, so you're not gonna get as much fraying. 397 00:19:51,825 --> 00:19:57,015 it is interesting that, these shoes that are rooted in Mediterranean grasses are 398 00:19:57,015 --> 00:20:01,395 now dependent on fibers that are grown thousands of miles away in South Asia. 399 00:20:01,495 --> 00:20:04,615 It's just such a microcosm of globalization. 400 00:20:04,735 --> 00:20:06,355 but that's the state of the world at that point. 401 00:20:06,415 --> 00:20:08,615 A huge part of British culture is tea. 402 00:20:08,625 --> 00:20:10,165 That tea doesn't come from Britain. 403 00:20:10,265 --> 00:20:13,475 Just kind of the result of colonization and trade. 404 00:20:13,535 --> 00:20:15,865 I feel like we need to do a montage of all the times that I've said 405 00:20:15,865 --> 00:20:19,145 Industrial Revolution because it's practically in every episode at this 406 00:20:19,145 --> 00:20:20,935 point, but I'm gonna say it again. 407 00:20:20,965 --> 00:20:25,565 We get to the Industrial Revolution the process becomes mechanized So, you 408 00:20:25,565 --> 00:20:29,055 know, we've now had that introduction of jute and there are a couple steps 409 00:20:29,075 --> 00:20:32,285 in the espadrille

process that are super repetitive and those are the ones 410 00:20:32,285 --> 00:20:34,225 that are mechanized the most quickly. 411 00:20:34,235 --> 00:20:35,195 So those include 412 00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:39,027 spinning the fiber into cord, braiding and pressing the soles, and then 413 00:20:39,027 --> 00:20:41,644 cutting canvas to standardized patterns. 414 00:20:41,744 --> 00:20:45,704 the actual attachment of the sole to the shoe, however, is still done 415 00:20:45,704 --> 00:20:49,074 by hand, that stitching, has kind of continued into the modern tradition 416 00:20:49,074 --> 00:20:50,264 which I think is interesting. 417 00:20:50,314 --> 00:20:54,074 the way that this is being done though, it's not one giant factory 418 00:20:54,074 --> 00:20:55,624 that's doing all the production. 419 00:20:55,674 --> 00:20:58,364 It's towns that are specialized in espadrilles. 420 00:20:58,464 --> 00:21:00,614 There's one in the French Basque Country. 421 00:21:00,674 --> 00:21:03,404 My French pronunciation's really brutal, so bear with me. 422 00:21:03,404 --> 00:21:08,834 But Mauléon-Licharre, which is a small town that became the world's largest 423 00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:10,764 center of espadrille production. 424 00:21:10,864 --> 00:21:13,684 So by the late 19th century, there's hundreds of workshops 425 00:21:13,684 --> 00:21:17,524 there, and production was on an industrialized scale, with thousands 426 00:21:17,524 --> 00:21:19,454 of families depending on that trade. 427 00:21:19,544 --> 00:21:22,594 but many families were still working from home on these, 428 00:21:22,594 --> 00:21:26,250 sewing the uppers that would be assembled in centralized workshops. 429 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:30,830 So it's kind of this hybrid model of blended factory production and traditional 430 00:21:30,850 --> 00:21:35,460 cottage labor, with women in particular continuing to do that sewing well into 431 00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:38,364 the 20th century from within their homes. 432 00:21:38,554 --> 00:21:41,751 you also see this Industrial production expanding in Spain, 433 00:21:41,801 --> 00:21:45,691 in Catalonia, La Rioja, Aragon, and Valencia regions as well. 434 00:21:45,791 --> 00:21:46,091 Yoana: Yeah. 435 00:21:46,141 --> 00:21:50,631 you might be touching on this, but if you are, I apologize for jumping ahead. 436 00:21:50,631 --> 00:21:52,431 If not, we'll have a conversation about it. 437 00:21:52,531 --> 00:21:56,421 as I was looking into, some of these brands, Diego's is one of them, 438 00:21:56,521 --> 00:21:57,021 Chandler: Mm-hmm 439 00:21:57,126 --> 00:22:00,596 Yoana: Diego's does this kind of profile in the story about their brand. 440 00:22:00,606 --> 00:22:03,946 they mention the villages in Spain and France that these come from, 441 00:22:03,946 --> 00:22:07,626 and, they'll do a profile on even, uh, y- like, Jose Luis is the rope 442 00:22:07,626 --> 00:22:09,286 maker in one of these villages, 443 00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:13,356 there's portraits of everybody literally involved in every piece of the process, 444 00:22:13,406 --> 00:22:16,996 It just reminded me of, like, as you were talking about who are the people actually 445 00:22:16,996 --> 00:22:20,626 making these, there are still really specialized villages that do this, and, 446 00:22:20,726 --> 00:22:24,316 it's a c- I think some brands are still trying to bring that to life in a way 447 00:22:24,416 --> 00:22:27,136 Chandler: Yeah, so I was literally just about to say this is kind of 448 00:22:27,146 --> 00:22:31,076 the era that you'll see some of these modern-day espadrille brands reference. 449 00:22:31,086 --> 00:22:38,076 There's one called Castañer, which traces its family's craft lineage to 1776. 450 00:22:38,126 --> 00:22:42,816 the modern company wasn't formed until 1927, but is a tradition that's being 451 00:22:42,816 --> 00:22:47,036 passed from families, and you'll see a lot of these modern-day brands trying to 452 00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:48,936 ground themselves within that tradition. 453 00:22:49,036 --> 00:22:53,196 Only a few of them actually can, which is interesting. 454 00:22:53,296 --> 00:22:56,376 I don't blame any of them for trying to kind of, you 455 00:22:56,376 --> 00:22:57,716 know, get a piece of that pie. 456 00:22:57,756 --> 00:22:58,376 I get it. 457 00:22:58,476 --> 00:23:02,406 And I do think there's some… This is something that their family was doing. 458 00:23:02,466 --> 00:23:06,782 Castañer is one of the oldest and most well-known, but we've seen 459 00:23:06,782 --> 00:23:08,342 all these changes in production. 460 00:23:08,392 --> 00:23:11,272 there's a lot of demand for them, but who's actually wearing these? 461 00:23:11,292 --> 00:23:15,442 Because the peasants of the medieval times, a lot's happened 462 00:23:15,522 --> 00:23:17,002 now that we're in the 19th century. 463 00:23:17,012 --> 00:23:18,902 So it's still the working class. 464 00:23:18,942 --> 00:23:20,462 It's still farmers. 465 00:23:20,462 --> 00:23:25,062 It's still fishermen, laborers, miners, factory workers, rural families. 466 00:23:25,072 --> 00:23:28,412 So we now have factory workers, but the shoe that they're 467 00:23:28,412 --> 00:23:29,352 wearing is an espadrille. 468 00:23:29,452 --> 00:23:30,542 so that has not changed. 469 00:23:30,542 --> 00:23:34,232 It's still the same kind of demographic in terms of economics 470 00:23:34,262 --> 00:23:35,992 as it was way back when. 471 00:23:36,092 --> 00:23:39,099 But that changes thanks to some people I think you might be 472 00:23:39,099 --> 00:23:43,209 familiar with, some of the most famous artists of the 20th century. 473 00:23:43,309 --> 00:23:47,499 wealthy people were largely ignoring espadrilles, but artists start 474 00:23:47,499 --> 00:23:52,659 embracing them because kind of this connection to the local culture, and 475 00:23:52,659 --> 00:23:58,059 then they're super authentic to Spain, to France, and they tie these artists 476 00:23:58,079 -->

00:24:02,989 into their local traditions and then also signal creative independence. 477 00:24:02,999 --> 00:24:05,279 Like, they're not trying to fit in with the wealthy. 478 00:24:05,379 --> 00:24:07,499 Pablo Picasso's the most famous example. 479 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,449 So he famously wore traditional Catalan espadrilles throughout a lot of his life. 480 00:24:12,499 --> 00:24:15,799 Salvador Dali also wore these, particularly when he 481 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:17,509 was in his native Catalonia. 482 00:24:17,589 --> 00:24:20,499 Dali had like a very flamboyant public persona. 483 00:24:20,679 --> 00:24:25,669 His fashion was not a joke he still was rocking these espadrilles a 484 00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:28,389 lot, which again, at this time they were not seen as fashionable. 485 00:24:28,409 --> 00:24:30,199 But like, he was out there wearing them. 486 00:24:30,299 --> 00:24:34,719 one interesting tidbit is both Picasso and Dali bought their shoes from this 487 00:24:34,769 --> 00:24:37,092 store called La Manual Alpargatera. 488 00:24:37,092 --> 00:24:41,922 that was founded in 1940 in Barcelona, and it's arguably the world's most 489 00:24:41,922 --> 00:24:43,892 famous traditional espadrille shop. 490 00:24:43,992 --> 00:24:48,912 So if you want a pair of the shoes that Picasso was buying, they're still around. 491 00:24:49,012 --> 00:24:51,822 Yoana: If you're listening to this, going to Barcelona, make 492 00:24:51,822 --> 00:24:53,472 a little stop at the store. 493 00:24:53,572 --> 00:24:57,522 wait, one thing that this reminds me of, it's a totally different time 494 00:24:57,522 --> 00:25:00,712 period, but when we talked about the French Revolution and the Enlightenment 495 00:25:00,822 --> 00:25:04,182 and kind of that renunciation on wearing things that are flashy. 496 00:25:04,225 --> 00:25:07,395 It's interesting that like Pablo Picasso and Dali are wearing this and they're of a 497 00:25:07,395 --> 00:25:12,075 similar, you know, like creative persona, and they're wearing the espadrille, which 498 00:25:12,075 --> 00:25:13,695 is something the wealthy didn't pick up. 499 00:25:13,795 --> 00:25:17,085 Chandler: it does seem like they were kind of a point of pride. 500 00:25:17,085 --> 00:25:19,995 somebody like Picasso, maybe he was opting for them because he had a lot 501 00:25:19,995 --> 00:25:24,345 of pride for where he came from and a love for Spain, and same for Dali. 502 00:25:24,395 --> 00:25:27,095 Picasso in particular was, visually synonymous with 503 00:25:27,095 --> 00:25:28,605 espadrilles in the public's eye. 504 00:25:28,615 --> 00:25:30,545 Like, that man was wearing these things. 505 00:25:30,645 --> 00:25:35,548 but then after World War I, leisure travel kind of expands because 506 00:25:35,648 --> 00:25:38,348 paid vacations start becoming more common in parts of Europe. 507 00:25:38,368 --> 00:25:42,368 That, wasn't a thing prior to World War I. In 1936, France's government 508 00:25:42,398 --> 00:25:47,818 introduced two weeks of paid vacation to workers, so now middle-class French 509 00:25:47,818 --> 00:25:50,918 citizens are coming to the Mediterranean, some of them for the first time. 510 00:25:50,918 --> 00:25:52,008 They've never been to the coast. 511 00:25:52,058 --> 00:25:55,498 Seaside holidays in particular started becoming fashionable. 512 00:25:55,558 --> 00:26:00,298 So all of a sudden, with these cultural changes, everybody needs lightweight, 513 00:26:00,308 --> 00:26:05,138 local footwear that is suited to the climate, and so they get espadrilles. 514 00:26:05,638 --> 00:26:06,038 Yoana: Hmm 515 00:26:06,178 --> 00:26:08,918 Chandler: by the late 1930s, the espadrille was starting 516 00:26:08,918 --> 00:26:10,348 to get this second identity. 517 00:26:10,348 --> 00:26:13,948 It's still a work shoe, but it's also a souvenir of your 518 00:26:13,948 --> 00:26:15,538 time spent in Spain or France. 519 00:26:15,568 --> 00:26:20,908 then we get World War II, so that is a little pause in the vacationing occurring. 520 00:26:20,908 --> 00:26:24,908 after that, we kind of have another turning point where the Mediterranean 521 00:26:24,908 --> 00:26:26,818 basically becomes this dream vacation. 522 00:26:26,868 --> 00:26:28,188 Europe's being rebuilt. 523 00:26:28,188 --> 00:26:32,148 A lot of people, where they live unfortunately has damages from the war. 524 00:26:32,168 --> 00:26:35,858 They're trying to get away, a little escapism, and so they all 525 00:26:35,858 --> 00:26:37,328 go to the Mediterranean to do that. 526 00:26:37,358 --> 00:26:41,018 And two big things are also happening that are contributing a lot to 527 00:26:41,018 --> 00:26:45,238 travel, which is commercial aviation and the accessibility of cars. 528 00:26:45,338 --> 00:26:50,338 And the regions that basically become in style at the time are the French 529 00:26:50,338 --> 00:26:54,583 Riviera, Costa Brava, the Balearic Islands, and the Italian Riviera. 530 00:26:54,863 --> 00:26:55,893 They're international playgrounds. 531 00:26:55,933 --> 00:26:58,353 You have American tourists, you have European ones. 532 00:26:58,453 --> 00:27:01,153 in all these places, what are the locals wearing? 533 00:27:01,253 --> 00:27:02,003 Espadrilles. 534 00:27:02,103 --> 00:27:05,297 all the tourists are like, "I need to get some of those," especially now that the 535 00:27:05,297 --> 00:27:06,733 artists have already been wearing them. 536 00:27:06,743 --> 00:27:09,830 The associations have already started to shift into Oh, these are 537 00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:13,900 like a cool local shoe." It's not just seen as a working class thing. 538 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,990 And then we get to Hollywood in the '40s. 539 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,603 Hollywood starts making movies using the Riviera as a backdrop. 540 00:27:20,653 --> 00:27:24,173 so there's films that are shot in the Riviera or inspired by it that 541 00:27:24,173 --> 00:27:30,003 kind of present this new

ideal of elegance as relaxed luxury rather 542 00:27:30,003 --> 00:27:32,533 than formal evening wear gowns. 543 00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:35,883 Hollywood really makes that transition, and the espadrille kind of becomes 544 00:27:35,883 --> 00:27:37,933 shorthand for relaxed luxury. 545 00:27:37,943 --> 00:27:42,413 So we're talking Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Brigitte Bardot. 546 00:27:42,513 --> 00:27:45,403 All of these people are wearing these espadrilles both on and 547 00:27:45,413 --> 00:27:46,833 off the sets of their movies. 548 00:27:46,833 --> 00:27:51,547 Of course, JFK, our fashionable king, was on the front end of the trend, 549 00:27:51,607 --> 00:27:56,187 so he was being photographed in them early as 1938 alongside his sisters. 550 00:27:56,237 --> 00:27:57,447 men were wearing these too. 551 00:27:57,467 --> 00:28:01,137 So we have John Wayne's wearing them in Mexico, where he owned a resort. 552 00:28:01,237 --> 00:28:04,247 Ernest Hemingway's wearing them, which I thought was interesting. 553 00:28:04,257 --> 00:28:06,887 Humphrey Bogart, a huge Hollywood actor. 554 00:28:06,907 --> 00:28:10,067 So this is definitely a unisex thing, in Hollywood. 555 00:28:10,237 --> 00:28:12,867 But there are a couple movies in particular I wanna point out. 556 00:28:12,867 --> 00:28:18,327 So we have Key Largo from 1948 with Lauren Bacall, and she's kind of resort 557 00:28:18,327 --> 00:28:20,487 dressing, which includes espadrilles. 558 00:28:20,587 --> 00:28:24,707 To Catch a Thief, 1955, Grace Kelly looks insane. 559 00:28:24,757 --> 00:28:27,457 the costume designer was a woman named Edith Head. 560 00:28:27,517 --> 00:28:31,427 And she received one of her 35 Oscar nominations for Best 561 00:28:31,427 --> 00:28:33,117 Costume Design for that movie. 562 00:28:33,147 --> 00:28:35,327 So clearly the espadrilles were working. 563 00:28:35,427 --> 00:28:39,447 then And God Created Woman in '56 was Brigitte Bardot. 564 00:28:39,497 --> 00:28:44,157 basically by 1960, the espadrille had effectively changed categories. 565 00:28:44,167 --> 00:28:47,147 So it wasn't just seen as a working class shoe, but rather the 566 00:28:47,147 --> 00:28:48,797 shoe you packed for a vacation. 567 00:28:48,847 --> 00:28:52,907 we see Paris, London, New York, the department stores are selling espadrilles 568 00:28:52,907 --> 00:28:54,247 specifically as summer footwear. 569 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,500 And then manufacturers are seeing this demand from tourism, and they respond 570 00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:04,500 by introducing brighter canvas colors, printed fabrics, rubber outsoles, kind 571 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,130 of more fashionable silhouettes because the demand is there from tourists. 572 00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:10,630 Yoana: I just think, I mean, this is like a little bit of a silly 573 00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:15,340 comment, but I'm thinking about, these photos of Pablo Picasso, JFK, Grace 574 00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:17,490 Kelly, and they're like so

iconic. 575 00:29:17,490 --> 00:29:20,830 but if you think about it today, I feel like if you see an influencer 576 00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,290 and they go to, a boutique in Italy that maybe has an online 577 00:29:25,290 --> 00:29:27,870 storefront, that's like shop my link. 578 00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:31,420 Like everything is kinda dispersed by all of these stories that you're seeing, 579 00:29:31,420 --> 00:29:36,100 but the influence here is so natural in the course of its time how it happened. 580 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:39,250 like no one's getting a brand deal to wear espadrilles. 581 00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:42,030 Like you are not getting paid to put this shoe on you. 582 00:29:42,130 --> 00:29:44,920 So I think it's just interesting that there wasn't actually 583 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,310 any financial incentive or percentage take for styling these. 584 00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:50,820 It was just truly inspiring in a way. 585 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760 Chandler: Yeah, I don't think it's an accident. 586 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,030 So I think they become popular for a few reasons. 587 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,330 First of all, World War II showed the dark side of industrialization. 588 00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:06,490 Basically showed we mechanized, this is what can happen from that process, and I 589 00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:11,393 think a lot of people wanted that return, that reversion back to simplicity, and 590 00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,933 so espadrilles kind of reflected that. 591 00:30:13,963 --> 00:30:18,103 I think that's also a pattern that we see through fashion history with the elite. 592 00:30:18,203 --> 00:30:23,459 Denim's the same, work wear is the same, where a practical object kind of becomes 593 00:30:23,499 --> 00:30:25,829 aspirational through this lens of leisure. 594 00:30:25,829 --> 00:30:30,129 I think it's these values that people are like, " We've moved so far from, we 595 00:30:30,129 --> 00:30:34,077 need it back." The espadrille process was impacted by industrialization, 596 00:30:34,087 --> 00:30:37,777 but it doesn't have that association, which I think is what made it appeal to 597 00:30:37,777 --> 00:30:41,857 people But yeah, that kinda gets us to them being solidified in the zeitgeist 598 00:30:41,857 --> 00:30:45,758 as, this beloved shoe for tourists. 599 00:30:45,858 --> 00:30:50,018 there's some pretty cool people wearing them too, like Coco Chanel, which I feel 600 00:30:50,018 --> 00:30:53,058 like kinda gets us to the modern era. 601 00:30:53,088 --> 00:30:54,368 So maybe I'll let you take over 602 00:30:54,468 --> 00:30:55,861 Yoana: I love the word zeitgeist. 603 00:30:55,911 --> 00:30:56,821 It's such a fun one. 604 00:30:56,821 --> 00:31:01,731 the one sentence that I, I kinda go back to when we think about espadrilles is 605 00:31:01,731 --> 00:31:06,961 really like it's this rare shoe in a way that it holds like democracy in the way 606 00:31:06,961 --> 00:31:08,741 that we talk about gender neutrality. 607 00:31:08,791 --> 00:31:12,161 it does have a luxury element now, and then there's almost a regional identity 608 00:31:12,161 --> 00:31:17,641 at the same time that exists alongside it, and I think they're all relevant still. 609 00:31:17,681 --> 00:31:21,341 And like the five lenses that I wanna flip through is, you know, like how they 610 00:31:21,341 --> 00:31:25,271 actually entered that fashion realm that you just alluded to with Coco Chanel, 611 00:31:25,321 --> 00:31:29,541 how they became democratic, and quite candidly still are, how Spain actually 612 00:31:29,541 --> 00:31:34,251 keeps reinventing on them, how these luxury houses use them as a house code 613 00:31:34,311 --> 00:31:39,601 in a way, and then how some brands like Morjas use profiles of individuals to 614 00:31:39,601 --> 00:31:43,681 really show that the silhouette still works, while it does continue to signal 615 00:31:43,681 --> 00:31:46,511 that ease, taste, without trying too hard. 616 00:31:46,541 --> 00:31:51,161 So maybe I'll start us off with, YSL and Castañer, coming back to them. 617 00:31:51,261 --> 00:31:51,661 Chandler: Yeah 618 00:31:51,761 --> 00:31:54,751 Yoana: if I could… I'm gonna borrow your analogy of painting the picture. 619 00:31:54,761 --> 00:31:59,351 So you have Yves Saint Laurent and Castañer, and the story of how they come 620 00:31:59,351 --> 00:32:01,201 together is actually really interesting. 621 00:32:01,331 --> 00:32:07,151 Castañer, to your point earlier, has this demographic of individuals who, were using 622 00:32:07,151 --> 00:32:08,961 these shoes for a functional purpose. 623 00:32:09,011 --> 00:32:11,921 Castañer's not a brand that was trying to make a luxury fashion statement. 624 00:32:11,921 --> 00:32:13,221 It's an artisan business. 625 00:32:13,251 --> 00:32:14,901 It's rooted in this traditional market. 626 00:32:14,901 --> 00:32:17,281 But that market starts to shrink over time, right? 627 00:32:17,281 --> 00:32:21,121 Like rural Spaniards leaving the countryside, going to the city, that 628 00:32:21,191 --> 00:32:23,061 consumer base is like disappearing. 629 00:32:23,061 --> 00:32:27,641 And so the practical role of the espadrille The demand for it isn't 630 00:32:27,641 --> 00:32:29,381 there as much as it used to be. 631 00:32:29,481 --> 00:32:33,521 And, YSL is coming into the picture, and I think honestly just does what a 632 00:32:33,521 --> 00:32:38,871 designer does, is looking into history and inspiration to kind of translate 633 00:32:38,871 --> 00:32:42,691 something that is maybe old or hasn't been done before into something new. 634 00:32:42,761 --> 00:32:48,581 YSL basically is searching for a way to make a heeled high fashion version of this 635 00:32:48,681 --> 00:32:51,441 traditional espadrille, of a rope sandal. 636 00:32:51,541 --> 00:32:55,221 And a lot of people are turning him down, like saying it's not 637 00:32:55,221 --> 00:32:58,281 possible, the jute wasn't supposed to

hold that kind of wedge. 638 00:32:58,341 --> 00:32:59,991 it's like we cannot make it happen. 639 00:33:00,091 --> 00:33:05,061 But the Castañer family is at this intersection of, necessity almost to 640 00:33:05,061 --> 00:33:08,971 need to innovate because they are seeing a decrease in their demand, and so 641 00:33:09,071 --> 00:33:12,301 They met YSL at the Paris Trade Fair. 642 00:33:12,501 --> 00:33:14,001 He pitches the wedge. 643 00:33:14,101 --> 00:33:18,951 They kinda take it and run, create a prototype in 10 days, and, you see 644 00:33:18,951 --> 00:33:22,281 the shoe, it's called the Campesina, and it's basically the world's 645 00:33:22,291 --> 00:33:25,861 first luxury wedge espadrille. 646 00:33:25,979 --> 00:33:31,161 And that's, in a way, how the espadrille enters fashion versus practicality 647 00:33:31,261 --> 00:33:33,471 in a more, I think, cemented way. 648 00:33:33,571 --> 00:33:38,961 It's so interesting that, the shoe becomes a bridge between this artisan production 649 00:33:38,961 --> 00:33:42,911 and a luxury fashion house trying to evolve, like declining rural economy, a 650 00:33:42,911 --> 00:33:47,951 new fashion consumer trying to almost meet the demand of this consumer that you're 651 00:33:47,951 --> 00:33:53,611 just speaking to that wants something that feels lighter and elegant but easy, 652 00:33:53,691 --> 00:33:59,341 and I think YSL was just inspired by what doesn't exist in this landscape that could 653 00:33:59,481 --> 00:34:02,251 fill that demand, and it was a wedge. 654 00:34:02,321 --> 00:34:02,801 Chandler: Yeah. 655 00:34:02,901 --> 00:34:07,171 So it was the original Yves Saint Laurent who went to him, or went 656 00:34:07,301 --> 00:34:07,551 Yoana: Yeah. 657 00:34:07,651 --> 00:34:08,371 Chandler: Okay, cool 658 00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:08,930 Yoana: Yeah. 659 00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:12,450 my understanding is that Yves Saint Laurent didn't just go to Castañer. 660 00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:15,530 I think he just pitched this idea to a lot of people. 661 00:34:15,630 --> 00:34:15,920 Chandler: Hmm 662 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:19,256 Yoana: or a lot of manufacturers I should say, weren't willing 663 00:34:19,256 --> 00:34:20,726 to, to take that risk. 664 00:34:20,772 --> 00:34:21,232 Chandler: Yeah 665 00:34:21,332 --> 00:34:26,822 Yoana: The sandal is like $1,000 now, and you could almost look at it as a little 666 00:34:26,822 --> 00:34:30,632 bit frustrating that luxury is taking this shoe that was at an affordable 667 00:34:30,632 --> 00:34:32,232 price point and premiumizing it. 668 00:34:32,332 --> 00:34:37,022 But it is also inspiring, 'cause this collaboration of a luxury brand and a 669 00:34:37,022 --> 00:34:41,442 family-owned company that can actually back the fact that they have been doing 670 00:34:41,442 --> 00:34:47,182 this for a long time, is like a moment of reframing, how Spain itself is changing 671 00:34:47,192 --> 00:34:48,902 and like staying on top of that narrative. 672 00:34:48,952 --> 00:34:50,332 It's an interesting collaboration. 673 00:34:50,432 --> 00:34:51,562 Like you don't see that a lot 674 00:34:51,662 --> 00:34:52,132 Chandler: Yeah. 675 00:34:52,212 --> 00:34:58,082 I think I would find it frustrating if walking around in an espadrille made by 676 00:34:58,082 --> 00:35:03,272 a little village in Spain, people assumed you were wearing a dupe of a luxury good. 677 00:35:03,372 --> 00:35:04,992 But I don't think that's the case. 678 00:35:05,092 --> 00:35:10,992 I don't think that luxury having adopted these has drawn away from their original 679 00:35:11,092 --> 00:35:13,222 meaning and the original version. 680 00:35:13,332 --> 00:35:13,822 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 681 00:35:13,922 --> 00:35:15,092 That's an interesting point. 682 00:35:15,192 --> 00:35:17,585 I feel like dupes exist to so many extents. 683 00:35:17,775 --> 00:35:20,875 But I don't think you could call an espadrille dupe. 684 00:35:20,885 --> 00:35:24,855 Even if I saw a dupe, I don't think I would like clock it as, "Oh, this is a 685 00:35:24,955 --> 00:35:30,262 YSL or a Chanel dupe." Like, maybe you would think the logo of Chanel looks 686 00:35:30,362 --> 00:35:34,605 like a dupe on the espadrille, but you don't see the actual espadrille as a dupe 687 00:35:34,705 --> 00:35:35,545 Chandler: No, exactly. 688 00:35:35,575 --> 00:35:38,375 Like I'm sure people make dupes dupes of Chanel espadrilles, 689 00:35:38,573 --> 00:35:38,953 Yoana: Yeah. 690 00:35:39,058 --> 00:35:43,088 Chandler: But a non-branded espadrille is not a dupe of a Chanel espadrille. 691 00:35:43,188 --> 00:35:44,128 It's just an espadrille. 692 00:35:44,228 --> 00:35:47,858 so I think it's different than some other products in that way. 693 00:35:47,968 --> 00:35:51,328 Like there are bag silhouettes that you know if you see that 694 00:35:51,328 --> 00:35:54,678 silhouette and it's not from the original brand, that is a dupe. 695 00:35:54,758 --> 00:35:56,358 But an espadrille's not that. 696 00:35:56,408 --> 00:35:56,658 Yoana: Yeah. 697 00:35:56,758 --> 00:35:59,298 It wouldn't be like duping a Celine, like Phantom, 698 00:35:59,348 --> 00:35:59,868 Chandler: Right. 699 00:35:59,968 --> 00:36:01,498 Yoana: That's, yeah, that's a good point. 700 00:36:01,598 --> 00:36:05,618 Chandler: did you see anything about him being inspired by Hollywood? 701 00:36:05,738 --> 00:36:07,178 YSL when you were doing the research? 702 00:36:07,278 --> 00:36:07,688 I'm curious 703 00:36:07,788 --> 00:36:08,678 Yoana: No, did you? 704 00:36:08,778 --> 00:36:13,228 Chandler: No, I'm surprised that nobody wrote about that since it was after they 705 00:36:13,228 --> 00:36:15,058 had been worn in so many famous movies 706 00:36:15,158 --> 00:36:18,358 Yoana: I bet there's definitely an inspiration from Hollywood, but 707 00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:21,570 Chandler: I don't think they would've caught his eye in the same way had 708 00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:25,920 they not already been integrated

into the American market in that way. 709 00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:29,070 Or not even just American, but I think, more wealthy Europeans 710 00:36:29,170 --> 00:36:30,610 Yoana: Cause YSL is, I 711 00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:31,410 Chandler: It's French. 712 00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:35,060 But yeah, I don't know how you would make a, Like, if it was still just seen 713 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,470 as a workman's shoe, I think you'd be hard-pressed to make something like 714 00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:41,880 that all of a sudden aspirational, except that it had already been 715 00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:43,580 filtered through Hollywood's lens 716 00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:45,550 Yoana: so that was in 1970. 717 00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:49,280 And so a lot of, the folks that you talked about, like Coco Chanel, 718 00:36:49,683 --> 00:36:52,159 JFK, a lot of that came earlier, 719 00:36:52,342 --> 00:36:54,072 Chandler: So first came Picasso, which is 720 00:36:54,402 --> 00:36:55,772 30s, 40s. 721 00:36:55,992 --> 00:36:58,129 Then came Hollywood, which is 50s. 722 00:36:58,229 --> 00:37:01,849 then, like, Diane Keaton's wearing them in a movie in the '70s, which is interesting. 723 00:37:01,849 --> 00:37:05,949 so I wonder if part of why he realized there was potential there is because 724 00:37:06,049 --> 00:37:09,919 Hollywood had already kind of changed the popular understanding of them 725 00:37:10,019 --> 00:37:10,349 Yoana: Yeah. 726 00:37:10,449 --> 00:37:13,269 I mean, to your point on, like, Picasso starting doing this in the '30s, if 727 00:37:13,269 --> 00:37:17,319 there was a 40-year period where people were wearing these more and more, there 728 00:37:17,319 --> 00:37:21,309 had to have been some influence by just noticing that people were wearing them 729 00:37:21,309 --> 00:37:22,989 and there wasn't any innovation on them. 730 00:37:23,019 --> 00:37:23,769 So Yeah. 731 00:37:23,869 --> 00:37:24,249 okay. 732 00:37:24,349 --> 00:37:27,369 Well, I think that also kinda takes us to, I guess, like they were 733 00:37:27,369 --> 00:37:29,059 popular for a really long time. 734 00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:31,719 and I think the reason is there was this article that called it the 735 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,439 democratic shoe, which I really liked. 736 00:37:33,549 --> 00:37:37,239 and, you know, like, there's such a huge range of wearers with these, like 737 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,359 presidents, artists, farmers, movie stars. 738 00:37:40,379 --> 00:37:43,349 Like, ordinary people are just sharing this silhouette 739 00:37:43,359 --> 00:37:45,059 in, a lot of different ways. 740 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:49,509 I found a really interesting article on Substack from, the publication's called 741 00:37:49,509 --> 00:37:54,319 The B List, and it kinda compared the espadrille to the feeling of how the 742 00:37:54,319 --> 00:37:59,309 Adidas Samba has, taken over the consumer in today's world, and it made a lot of 743 00:37:59,309 --> 00:38:03,469 sense to me '

cause it's not… they're not a rarefied object in a way that a 744 00:38:03,469 --> 00:38:08,229 luxury shoe is, and I also don't think an Adidas Samba is, that, rarefied, 745 00:38:08,259 --> 00:38:12,609 but it's pretty recognizable, and it's broadly wearable, whoever you are. 746 00:38:12,659 --> 00:38:17,629 it's almost, the way that an Adidas Samba today can be paired, if you wanna wear 747 00:38:17,629 --> 00:38:20,679 it with a tighter jean, maybe a little bit more buttoned up, you can wear it 748 00:38:20,689 --> 00:38:22,249 in, a San Francisco office building. 749 00:38:22,249 --> 00:38:23,539 You can wear it really casually. 750 00:38:23,539 --> 00:38:26,449 there's a lot of people that even express themselves differently with 751 00:38:26,449 --> 00:38:30,939 an Adidas Samba based on the pattern, the color, and that, allows your 752 00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:32,789 personality almost to come out. 753 00:38:32,889 --> 00:38:36,829 And so similar to how I think the Adidas Samba today doesn't really read 754 00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:39,259 as super feminine, super masculine. 755 00:38:39,269 --> 00:38:41,359 there's no rigid line there. 756 00:38:41,399 --> 00:38:45,329 I think the espadrille kinda has that same shared language of not 757 00:38:45,329 --> 00:38:49,969 really, like, oriented towards a certain gender in dressing, but it's 758 00:38:49,969 --> 00:38:53,489 really just this feeling of, like, intentional leisure, to your point. 759 00:38:53,629 --> 00:38:54,329 Chandler: No I love that. 760 00:38:54,379 --> 00:38:57,779 the Samba I think it's interesting 'cause I don't see… I'll sometimes 761 00:38:57,779 --> 00:39:00,719 see a really fashionable older woman in the US wearing them. 762 00:39:00,819 --> 00:39:01,229 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 763 00:39:01,268 --> 00:39:05,888 Chandler: I do feel like the demographic tends to be younger overall in the States. 764 00:39:05,908 --> 00:39:09,578 But if you're in Europe, older people are wearing those across the board. 765 00:39:09,688 --> 00:39:14,438 and so it's not like an age-related thing, and I think espadrilles is similar in that 766 00:39:14,448 --> 00:39:18,538 where it's like anybody can wear them, any gender, any age, and that's rare. 767 00:39:18,548 --> 00:39:22,288 you can pick whichever one is communicating what you want, you 768 00:39:22,288 --> 00:39:25,948 know, you could own four pairs of espadrilles and not feel like they're 769 00:39:25,948 --> 00:39:29,138 interchangeable, because they could have completely different vibes 770 00:39:29,198 --> 00:39:31,608 based on the colors, the materials. 771 00:39:31,708 --> 00:39:34,658 Yoana: And well, the one thing about espadrilles, correct me if I'm wrong, 772 00:39:34,718 --> 00:39:36,738 but I haven't really seen them at all. 773 00:39:36,778 --> 00:39:39,548 Like, they haven't really been popping up on any influencer I follow. 774 00:39:39,548 --> 00:39:41,258 I don't really see a lot of people wearing them. 775 00:39:41,258 --> 00:39:44,768 And in this like Substack, Bella, who writes it, like talks about how 776 00:39:44,768 --> 00:39:48,648 they're coming to life a little bit in Valentino in their spring summer 2019. 777 00:39:48,798 --> 00:39:50,748 they're in JW Anderson 2020. 778 00:39:50,848 --> 00:39:53,268 Dior did them in their pre-fall 2024. 779 00:39:53,368 --> 00:39:57,448 But there's an obsession with the ballet flat right now, and so the espadrille 780 00:39:57,448 --> 00:40:00,388 has like come up in the runway, but it hasn't really been picked up. 781 00:40:00,438 --> 00:40:04,448 it makes me think about the Samba in one more connection point because 782 00:40:04,448 --> 00:40:07,478 there's gonna be a point in time where the Samba like loses relevance. 783 00:40:07,548 --> 00:40:09,528 I'd argue it's almost already there. 784 00:40:09,628 --> 00:40:13,767 And then it's gonna go into like a total quiet period, and the Samba's 785 00:40:13,767 --> 00:40:16,637 not really gonna be relevant for a long time, kind of like the Air Force 1. 786 00:40:16,737 --> 00:40:20,187 And maybe the espadrilles have almost been on a lull 'cause there was such 787 00:40:20,187 --> 00:40:24,967 a prevalence, of them being worn, that they're in their quiet period right now. 788 00:40:24,967 --> 00:40:28,237 So I'd almost argue, like I actually don't know if they're as relevant 789 00:40:28,237 --> 00:40:29,527 right now than they used to be. 790 00:40:29,567 --> 00:40:32,697 They still s- serve the same purpose, but they're not as relevant 791 00:40:32,727 --> 00:40:34,987 as, a flat is at the moment. 792 00:40:35,087 --> 00:40:36,157 But, I don't know 793 00:40:36,215 --> 00:40:39,263 Chandler: I think we're totally primed for them to be super relevant again. 794 00:40:39,373 --> 00:40:42,287 Reason being, you go from ballet flats. 795 00:40:42,387 --> 00:40:44,677 We're starting to see more of the jelly flats. 796 00:40:44,677 --> 00:40:45,097 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 797 00:40:45,323 --> 00:40:49,233 Chandler: The jelly flats are starting to have woven textures or slats in 798 00:40:49,233 --> 00:40:52,863 them, and the progression naturally takes you back to espadrilles. 799 00:40:52,906 --> 00:40:56,596 I think the way that the cycle is going, espadrilles, whether it's next 800 00:40:56,606 --> 00:41:00,486 summer or two years from now, are going to be worn on every influencer. 801 00:41:00,536 --> 00:41:01,276 but it's cyclical. 802 00:41:01,276 --> 00:41:05,856 Like, to the point of sambas, sambas were huge, think it was maybe aughts. 803 00:41:05,856 --> 00:41:09,236 But, they come and go, you know, it's a cycle, and I think espadrilles is 804 00:41:09,236 --> 00:41:12,356 the same, where I do think people are still wearing them a lot in the 805 00:41:12,356 --> 00:41:13,856 Mediterranean, where they're from. 806 00:41:13,946 --> 00:41:18,746 But I do think in terms of the American, usage, I think it's gonna be back soon 807 00:41:18,846 --> 00:41:19,206 Yoana: Yeah. 808

00:41:19,256 --> 00:41:22,646 I think even just final point I'll make on this is, you know, there were 809 00:41:22,746 --> 00:41:27,436 a lot of the runway shows that just happened in Milan for men's collections. 810 00:41:27,536 --> 00:41:32,166 You did see this, like, play with gender, and it is such a genderless shoe. 811 00:41:32,266 --> 00:41:36,656 But I would argue that in the 2000s, you know, I think, like, men 812 00:41:36,656 --> 00:41:38,086 wouldn't really wear an espadrille. 813 00:41:38,126 --> 00:41:41,696 I mean, Dylan and I were just talking about packing for Croatia, and I was 814 00:41:41,696 --> 00:41:43,866 like, "You need to buy espadrilles. I love them." And he's like, "Ah, 815 00:41:43,966 --> 00:41:47,426 I I don't really know. Like, do men wear that shoe?" And I do think there 816 00:41:47,426 --> 00:41:50,586 was this, like, period where they're actually not a feminine shoe, but 817 00:41:50,586 --> 00:41:52,156 they were almost really feminized. 818 00:41:52,256 --> 00:41:52,576 Chandler: Nick has them 819 00:41:53,034 --> 00:41:54,224 Yoana: I love that for Nick. 820 00:41:54,334 --> 00:41:54,674 Chandler: His are super cute 821 00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:55,411 Yoana: pop it on the screen 822 00:41:56,845 --> 00:41:58,365 Chandler: they have Aperol on them 823 00:41:58,571 --> 00:41:59,201 Yoana: I love that. 824 00:41:59,301 --> 00:41:59,951 Chandler: My king. 825 00:42:00,051 --> 00:42:02,751 Yoana: but yeah, espadrilles are, it's time for them to come back. 826 00:42:02,751 --> 00:42:03,731 We're calling it now. 827 00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:07,161 We are also a trend reporting and trend forecasting podcast. 828 00:42:07,161 --> 00:42:07,691 No, I'm joking. 829 00:42:07,791 --> 00:42:09,841 Um, actually the exact opposite. 830 00:42:09,841 --> 00:42:11,075 Chandler: I really do, I think they're gonna be back, I do. 831 00:42:11,115 --> 00:42:14,495 I also think right now more men are wearing them, but I think it's 832 00:42:14,535 --> 00:42:17,755 partially 'cause there's this huge push for men to be more fashionable. 833 00:42:17,855 --> 00:42:18,295 Yoana: Mm-hmm 834 00:42:18,395 --> 00:42:19,855 Chandler: And I mean, they're super fashionable. 835 00:42:19,955 --> 00:42:23,743 And especially as men are wearing looser and more relaxed silhouettes, 836 00:42:23,843 --> 00:42:24,273 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 837 00:42:24,328 --> 00:42:27,678 Chandler: in linen, what shoe goes better with relaxed linen than an espadrille? 838 00:42:27,748 --> 00:42:30,328 I don't think there is one No men in flip-flops. 839 00:42:30,418 --> 00:42:31,208 Put on an espadrille. 840 00:42:31,308 --> 00:42:32,328 Yoana: I agree with that. 841 00:42:32,428 --> 00:42:33,798 Please leave them at home. 842 00:42:33,898 --> 00:42:35,648 There's other options out there. 843 00:42:35,768 --> 00:42:36,238 okay. 844 00:42:36,288 --> 00:42:40,288 maybe the next thing I wanna kinda talk about is we talked about some brands that 845 00:42:40,288 --> 00:42:44,168 really lean into heritage, like Diego's is one of them, in terms of playing out 846 00:42:44,168 --> 00:42:45,748 that narrative of where these come from. 847 00:42:45,748 --> 00:42:49,798 But there's also a lot of other brands that are kind of pushing behind or past 848 00:42:49,798 --> 00:42:54,588 just this idea of nostalgia and not just leaning into what the origin story 849 00:42:54,588 --> 00:42:59,048 of the espadrille is, but also kind of like making it an area to evolve on. 850 00:42:59,048 --> 00:43:02,158 as we prepare for the pod, I always find myself naturally gravitating 851 00:43:02,158 --> 00:43:05,458 towards a brand that I haven't known about before, and this time 852 00:43:05,458 --> 00:43:09,378 this brand called Nagisa came up as like the clearest example of that. 853 00:43:09,388 --> 00:43:11,098 I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. 854 00:43:11,198 --> 00:43:15,878 but basically they don't treat this espadrille as a label of tradition. 855 00:43:15,978 --> 00:43:19,298 It's almost, like a design language that they expand upon. 856 00:43:19,298 --> 00:43:24,298 And what's really interesting is that the founder of the brand, actually in 857 00:43:24,298 --> 00:43:30,048 an interview talks about how, she didn't consider herself, as buying an espadrille. 858 00:43:30,048 --> 00:43:31,698 Like it's not something that she would wear. 859 00:43:31,748 --> 00:43:34,178 Claudia Pérez Polo, who's their co-founder. 860 00:43:34,198 --> 00:43:37,008 And I thought that was actually pretty revealing 'cause it almost 861 00:43:37,008 --> 00:43:40,808 suggests that this brand was born from someone who understood that to 862 00:43:40,818 --> 00:43:45,188 keep the shoe alive, it has to be, adapted for a more younger consumer, 863 00:43:45,198 --> 00:43:47,038 a more like design aware audience. 864 00:43:47,098 --> 00:43:50,508 There's a really neat version of their shoe that it looks like a 865 00:43:50,508 --> 00:43:55,018 laced up, a high top Converse in a way is like where my mind went. 866 00:43:55,118 --> 00:43:58,998 it really shows you how you can evolve to create the future of the espadrille 867 00:43:59,008 --> 00:44:02,888 while you still maintain those elements that you talked about that exist in the 868 00:44:02,888 --> 00:44:05,338 ordinance that was written way back when. 869 00:44:05,408 --> 00:44:10,818 and it's neat to see that alive in Spanish brands as well, and kinda 870 00:44:10,818 --> 00:44:14,288 like keeping the shoe culturally grounded, but also making it current. 871 00:44:14,388 --> 00:44:14,718 Yeah 872 00:44:14,818 --> 00:44:15,568 Chandler: It's very cool. 873 00:44:15,618 --> 00:44:19,308 I think so many of my favorite pieces come out of Spain. 874 00:44:19,358 --> 00:44:23,138 I think their creative community is really good at freshness. 875 00:44:23,188 --> 00:44:26,938 and I love that the espadrille is one area that they've put some of that effort 876 00:44:26,938 --> 00:44:30,478 towards because we've

talked a lot about how it's kind of like a cultural icon for 877 00:44:30,478 --> 00:44:35,108 Spain, and seeing that continue to evolve while still remaining relevant in its 878 00:44:35,108 --> 00:44:37,128 original form I think is really exciting 879 00:44:37,228 --> 00:44:41,028 Yoana: But even then like the next piece which is luxury, ' cause you're 880 00:44:41,028 --> 00:44:45,498 seeing Spanish brands still kind of reinvent it, But there's also a lot 881 00:44:45,498 --> 00:44:49,288 of interesting things happening with how luxury houses use the espadrille 882 00:44:49,298 --> 00:44:53,458 almost as a canvas, pun intended, ha ha, for their identity in a way. 883 00:44:53,558 --> 00:44:57,238 I'll quickly like flip through Hermès, Chanel, and Valentino. 884 00:44:57,288 --> 00:44:59,268 they're not doing the same thing, but I think the message 885 00:44:59,268 --> 00:45:00,228 they're sending is clear. 886 00:45:00,298 --> 00:45:05,628 they use the espadrille as another way to extend their brand and have you enter like 887 00:45:05,628 --> 00:45:10,018 the emotional world of what Hermès is, of what Chanel is, of what Valentino is. 888 00:45:10,118 --> 00:45:13,508 And so like Hermès obviously the most restrained out of the 889 00:45:13,508 --> 00:45:15,558 three from a brand perspective. 890 00:45:15,608 --> 00:45:19,701 when Hermès does this, they're really just … There's no logo attached to it. 891 00:45:19,711 --> 00:45:21,111 Obviously it's Hermès. 892 00:45:21,161 --> 00:45:24,451 they're taking the silhouette that you see on the Oran sandal, and the only thing 893 00:45:24,451 --> 00:45:27,861 that really, feels distinct about it is that the shoe's actually not screaming 894 00:45:27,861 --> 00:45:31,751 for that much attention, Hermès just in general doesn't scream for attention, but 895 00:45:31,751 --> 00:45:35,241 the shoe does scream Hermès 'cause if you know the Oran, if you know the silhouette 896 00:45:35,241 --> 00:45:38,901 of a Hermès shoe, then you clearly just see that world of Hermès being 897 00:45:38,901 --> 00:45:41,561 translated onto an espadrille format. 898 00:45:41,581 --> 00:45:44,021 So it's not really, like, reinventing anything. 899 00:45:44,041 --> 00:45:47,561 It's just like an extension of the Hermès world onto this shoe. 900 00:45:47,751 --> 00:45:51,911 What's interesting though, and you can tell me if you disagree, I would argue 901 00:45:51,911 --> 00:45:55,121 that at first glance when I see the shoe, I wouldn't think that's Hermès, 902 00:45:55,151 --> 00:45:56,261 I would think that's an espadrille 903 00:45:56,361 --> 00:45:57,841 Chandler: Yeah, I think you totally would. 904 00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:01,971 So I, as you were talking about that, I started to be like, I don't think I 905 00:46:01,971 --> 00:46:04,451 would ever buy an espadrille from Hermès. 906 00:46:04,551 --> 00:46:09,571 The reason being, Hermès' whole thing is their craftsmanship, which is 907 00:46:09,571 --> 00:46:11,701 amazing, and they're so good at it. 908 00:46:11,801 --> 00:46:16,391 They're really good at it at leather because of their heritage and how 909 00:46:16,391 --> 00:46:18,581 they originated as a saddle company. 910 00:46:18,631 --> 00:46:22,581 if I wanted like gorgeous, amazing craftsmanship in a shoe, I would 911 00:46:22,581 --> 00:46:24,711 go buy a leather shoe from Hermès. 912 00:46:24,811 --> 00:46:28,221 If I wanted gorgeous, amazing craftsmanship in an espadrille, I would 913 00:46:28,221 --> 00:46:30,601 go buy one from a little village in Spain. 914 00:46:30,701 --> 00:46:31,911 Like, that's their bread and butter. 915 00:46:31,941 --> 00:46:33,181 That's what they've been doing. 916 00:46:33,281 --> 00:46:34,501 I would let them do it. 917 00:46:34,541 --> 00:46:36,831 I'm sure they sell well, there're people that wanna wear Hermès, 918 00:46:36,831 --> 00:46:39,241 and they're gonna do that, and so they're gonna buy that espadrille. 919 00:46:39,341 --> 00:46:41,001 and it makes sense for their company DNA. 920 00:46:41,051 --> 00:46:44,511 I just, for me, if you're looking for a great espadrille, 921 00:46:44,561 --> 00:46:45,811 I would find it elsewhere 922 00:46:45,911 --> 00:46:47,191 Yoana: Yeah, like I love that. 923 00:46:47,191 --> 00:46:48,111 That's a really good point. 924 00:46:48,141 --> 00:46:51,541 I mean, I think with the other two, like Chanel, you think about the Chanel 925 00:46:51,541 --> 00:46:53,311 espadrille, there's tweed, right? 926 00:46:53,321 --> 00:46:56,311 There's either like it's a tweed espadrille that's what Chanel is 927 00:46:56,311 --> 00:46:59,561 known for, and then with Valentino you see the rock studs coming out. 928 00:46:59,661 --> 00:47:03,401 I love how you just articulated that because you aren't buying the Chanel 929 00:47:03,401 --> 00:47:05,991 espadrille, the Hermès espadrille, or the Valentino espadrille if 930 00:47:06,001 --> 00:47:07,391 you want a quality espadrille. 931 00:47:07,491 --> 00:47:10,881 You're buying it because like you love that Valentino does studs and you 932 00:47:10,881 --> 00:47:12,411 love like that world that they create. 933 00:47:12,561 --> 00:47:15,561 You love tweed 'cause it feels Chanel, and you maybe wanna 934 00:47:15,561 --> 00:47:17,131 signal that you're wearing Chanel. 935 00:47:17,281 --> 00:47:22,041 it's in a way like not the most authentic version of an espadrille, but it's those 936 00:47:22,051 --> 00:47:27,331 houses creating a product for people that are so entrenched in, buying from 937 00:47:27,331 --> 00:47:30,741 them that they're almost using the espadrilles as another mechanism of 938 00:47:30,948 --> 00:47:33,958 you can also get the espadrille 'cause it has the same DNA of the brand." 939 00:47:34,058 --> 00:47:37,908 Chandler: least part of Hermes's target audience feels like the Riviera, right? 940 00:47:37,928 --> 00:47:39,968 feels like the people who have been wearing espadrilles 941 00:47:40,004 --> 00:47:41,794 .

Valentino definitely less so. 942 00:47:41,894 --> 00:47:47,564 I feel like that target audience is, New York, the downtown scene, very urban. 943 00:47:47,644 --> 00:47:51,774 And so I think if I'm the type of person who wears Valentino day in and 944 00:47:51,774 --> 00:47:55,874 day out, an espadrille is not really something that I'm in the market for. 945 00:47:55,924 --> 00:47:59,634 but if I need a vacation shoe, that Valentino one might work out for me. 946 00:47:59,644 --> 00:48:02,314 So I think it just depends on who you are 947 00:48:02,414 --> 00:48:02,874 Yoana: Yeah. 948 00:48:02,924 --> 00:48:07,274 maybe you're like the person from New York that loves to go out and 949 00:48:07,274 --> 00:48:13,064 wears Valentino and is gonna be going clubbing in Ibiza until like 4:00 AM 950 00:48:13,164 --> 00:48:15,634 and needs a shoe that isn't a stiletto. 951 00:48:15,704 --> 00:48:18,264 Like, that's when you buy the Valentino stud espadrille 952 00:48:18,364 --> 00:48:18,604 Chandler: Yeah. 953 00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:21,040 Or like, what are you gonna wear to the beach club? 954 00:48:21,140 --> 00:48:22,720 Yoana: Right, like you're going to the beach club if you're 955 00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:24,190 buying the Valentino Espadrille 956 00:48:24,221 --> 00:48:24,481 Chandler: Yeah. 957 00:48:24,581 --> 00:48:26,251 So that's who that's for. 958 00:48:26,301 --> 00:48:28,961 but they're not gonna be wearing the one from the tiny village 959 00:48:29,061 --> 00:48:29,691 Yoana: Yeah. 960 00:48:29,791 --> 00:48:30,631 it's interesting. 961 00:48:30,730 --> 00:48:34,020 Chandler: I think what's cool, there are not that many things that 962 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,000 every house does, and obviously not every house has done these. 963 00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:40,930 Most houses do bags, and like boots. 964 00:48:40,930 --> 00:48:44,884 those are all pretty broad categories, and espadrilles is pretty specific. 965 00:48:44,894 --> 00:48:47,374 Like when I defined it at the beginning, there are specific 966 00:48:47,374 --> 00:48:48,814 things that make up an espadrille. 967 00:48:48,814 --> 00:48:51,764 It's like you have to have the rope sole, there's a canvas upper. 968 00:48:51,864 --> 00:48:55,294 Like there's multiple things at play here, and the fact that they're so 969 00:48:55,294 --> 00:48:58,654 ubiquitous that many of these houses have done a version I feel like 970 00:48:58,664 --> 00:49:00,794 speaks to how relevant they are. 971 00:49:00,884 --> 00:49:04,024 Yoana: I mean you just walked me into my next thing really perfectly, which is 972 00:49:04,094 --> 00:49:05,704 how I'm gonna close out, to be honest. 973 00:49:05,774 --> 00:49:09,154 you know, I think the reason why a lot of these brands are doing 974 00:49:09,154 --> 00:49:13,194 them is 'cause they answer a really common wardrobe problem, right? 975 00:49:13,194 --> 00:49:17,244 Like, people want a piece that feels, you know, not super old-fashioned, 976 00:49:17,254 --> 00:49:18,564 but a little bit more rooted. 977 00:49:18,574 --> 00:49:20,624 Like, it's easy, but it's not bland. 978 00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:21,854 It's, stylish. 979 00:49:21,904 --> 00:49:23,084 it's not too try-hard. 980 00:49:23,254 --> 00:49:27,114 I think a lot of people when they think about the summer think about, effortlessly 981 00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:31,634 looking good, and espadrilles do that in a beautiful manner, and so why wouldn't 982 00:49:31,734 --> 00:49:34,124 every brand try to attach their DNA on it? 983 00:49:34,224 --> 00:49:36,144 And they've just continuously gotten reinterpreted. 984 00:49:36,194 --> 00:49:41,754 But, I think one of the clearest examples that I want to tie back to 985 00:49:41,794 --> 00:49:46,449 your point earlier on when celebrities picked this up in the 1930s through 986 00:49:46,449 --> 00:49:48,954 the 1950s is, Morjas and Goldberger. 987 00:49:49,734 --> 00:49:53,747 Morjas is a footwear company, and they approach the espadrille 988 00:49:53,767 --> 00:49:55,387 from a very contemporary angle. 989 00:49:55,537 --> 00:49:59,037 it's handmade in Spain, but they elevate the jute sole, and it's finished in 990 00:49:59,037 --> 00:50:00,917 suede to kinda look more polished. 991 00:50:01,017 --> 00:50:04,837 A little bit more, if you were going to dinner at, a resort. 992 00:50:04,937 --> 00:50:11,248 And on their website, they did this really unique profile with Auro Montanari, who's 993 00:50:11,288 --> 00:50:13,448 actually better known as John Goldberger. 994 00:50:13,488 --> 00:50:17,368 That's his, alias name, And he is, one of the most famous vintage watch 995 00:50:17,368 --> 00:50:21,208 collectors in the world, one of the most respected names in that field. 996 00:50:21,258 --> 00:50:26,038 owned probably the most rare form of a Rolex, which is, like, I think 997 00:50:26,038 --> 00:50:28,298 it was an 18 karat white gold Rolex. 998 00:50:28,348 --> 00:50:32,118 he donated all the proceeds, it was around 6 million, to charity. 999 00:50:32,218 --> 00:50:37,608 And, he, has completely avoided anything public, and Morjas, over a couple of 1000 00:50:37,608 --> 00:50:39,938 years, created a relationship with him. 1001 00:50:39,948 --> 00:50:42,688 The founder actually just met him at a dinner, and they got along. 1002 00:50:42,788 --> 00:50:47,568 And the first collaboration that this man, did with a brand in a 1003 00:50:47,578 --> 00:50:49,358 branded, shoot was with Morjas. 1004 00:50:49,428 --> 00:50:51,468 That is his first partnership. 1005 00:50:51,568 --> 00:50:57,768 His second partnership is with Zegna, and, like, Zegna is on a 1006 00:50:57,818 --> 00:50:59,118 completely different ballpark. 1007 00:50:59,118 --> 00:51:03,558 Morjas sells shoes for $180, $180 espadrilles. 1008 00:51:03,558 --> 00:51:06,398 Zegna shoes, 900 to, like, $2,000. 1009 00:51:06,498 --> 00:51:09,928 when Goldberger did his second collaboration, with Zegna, they 1010 00:51:09,928 --> 00:51:13,218 mention

that Goldberger embodies this, ambition and craftsmanship. 1011 00:51:13,268 --> 00:51:17,628 I just think it's really interesting that Zegna is this brand, very high fashion, 1012 00:51:17,728 --> 00:51:22,318 but Goldberger, who also collects these, million-dollar watches, decides to do 1013 00:51:22,318 --> 00:51:27,258 his first-ever brand collaboration with an espadrille company that sells them 1014 00:51:27,258 --> 00:51:33,988 for $180 because there's this philosophy almost of, taste, ease, and craft that 1015 00:51:33,988 --> 00:51:37,898 an espadrille has, which is almost timeless, and I think that's the whole 1016 00:51:37,898 --> 00:51:39,678 point of why they're relevant today. 1017 00:51:39,734 --> 00:51:40,234 Chandler: Yeah. 1018 00:51:40,424 --> 00:51:41,164 It's really funny. 1019 00:51:41,164 --> 00:51:44,794 I feel like in a certain lens they can almost feel old money 1020 00:51:44,894 --> 00:51:45,494 Yoana: Yes 1021 00:51:45,594 --> 00:51:48,584 Chandler: But now that we know where they came from, that's insane. 1022 00:51:48,684 --> 00:51:50,784 Like, that's so not where they came from. 1023 00:51:50,834 --> 00:51:53,634 So it's so interesting that that's how they've evolved. 1024 00:51:53,734 --> 00:51:54,954 And I don't think they have to feel that way. 1025 00:51:54,954 --> 00:51:57,844 I think they can just be a really casual, practical shoe. 1026 00:51:57,944 --> 00:52:01,224 I think it depends who's wearing them in what context, but It's such an 1027 00:52:01,234 --> 00:52:05,704 interesting history, and, like, very not in line with other topics we've covered. 1028 00:52:05,714 --> 00:52:08,544 So I kinda love it, 'cause I was getting tired of being like, "The 1029 00:52:08,544 --> 00:52:10,544 wealthy wore them. The wealthy wore them." Now the wealthy 1030 00:52:10,562 --> 00:52:10,962 Yoana: I know. 1031 00:52:11,052 --> 00:52:11,605 Chandler: but they didn't always 1032 00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:11,959 Yoana: Yeah. 1033 00:52:12,059 --> 00:52:13,609 Chandler: We know why Goldberger wore them. 1034 00:52:13,709 --> 00:52:15,049 Do you own any? 1035 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,819 What do they evoke for you? 1036 00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:17,919 What would your vibe be? 1037 00:52:17,919 --> 00:52:19,259 I would be surprised if you owned any 1038 00:52:19,319 --> 00:52:21,249 Yoana: I actually haven't told you this story. 1039 00:52:21,299 --> 00:52:24,389 I used to wear them a lot, surprisingly, in high school. 1040 00:52:24,499 --> 00:52:27,349 and my mom loves espadrilles. 1041 00:52:27,739 --> 00:52:28,409 Chandler: My queen 1042 00:52:28,689 --> 00:52:31,009 Yoana: literally my style icon, my queen. 1043 00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:31,869 I love my mom. 1044 00:52:31,969 --> 00:52:35,529 but, like, my mom has always been someone that's loves getting done up, and she's 1045 00:52:35,529 --> 00:52:37,459 just, like, is always put together. 1046 00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:42,289 And whenever we would go on vacation, my mom would never buy a pair of flip-flops. 1047 00:52:42,299 --> 00:52:45,369 She was like, "We are not wearing flip-flops. I'm wearing espadrilles." 1048 00:52:45,379 --> 00:52:48,579 Like, my mom had probably, like at least 10 pairs at home. 1049 00:52:48,579 --> 00:52:49,869 she had a denim espadrille. 1050 00:52:49,879 --> 00:52:52,189 She would, like, get an espadrille for every color bag. 1051 00:52:52,189 --> 00:52:56,079 I vividly remember this pair of, a pink espadrille she had that 1052 00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:57,429 matched one of her beach bags. 1053 00:52:57,449 --> 00:53:01,309 And, it was my mom's DNA and MO, and she always used to wear heels, 1054 00:53:01,389 --> 00:53:04,369 She still does wear heels, but not as frequently, obviously. 1055 00:53:04,419 --> 00:53:07,839 older, whenever we were on vacation, my mom's vacation shoe was an 1056 00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:11,819 espadrille because it was her way to, like, elevate vacation dressing, 1057 00:53:11,919 --> 00:53:14,739 but she couldn't be wearing a heel the way that she would be before. 1058 00:53:14,759 --> 00:53:18,979 So, I love that this podcast is about intentionally getting dressed 1059 00:53:18,989 --> 00:53:20,999 and tapping into your closet. 1060 00:53:21,009 --> 00:53:24,559 However, I don't actually own a pair of espadrilles right now, and I would 1061 00:53:24,569 --> 00:53:29,029 be lying to you if I didn't tell you that I texted myself six that I'm 1062 00:53:29,029 --> 00:53:31,179 considering buying post-research. 1063 00:53:31,259 --> 00:53:31,649 Chandler: love that. 1064 00:53:31,649 --> 00:53:32,569 Okay, Gal. 1065 00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:34,229 Yoana: I'm excited for her to listen to this one, 1066 00:53:34,299 --> 00:53:37,949 Chandler: she's a closed-toed girl, and this is the shoe for that if 1067 00:53:37,949 --> 00:53:39,289 that's you, sometimes that's me. 1068 00:53:39,289 --> 00:53:41,966 I have… remember when we were at the beach and we were like 1069 00:53:41,966 --> 00:53:43,286 going through our old Instagrams 1070 00:53:43,346 --> 00:53:43,736 Yoana: Mm-hmm. 1071 00:53:43,836 --> 00:53:47,436 Chandler: Do you remember that two-piece blue set I was wearing 1072 00:53:47,536 --> 00:53:50,846 Yoana: I think we're gonna put that photo up, but it's gonna be like, "Oh, wow, 1073 00:53:50,846 --> 00:53:54,186 so you guys started a fashion podcast. You guys need to see these outfits." 1074 00:53:54,236 --> 00:53:59,826 Chandler: Okay, so that outfit, I'm wearing pair of platform shoes, and I 1075 00:53:59,836 --> 00:54:03,613 don't know if you can really call them an espadrille because there is, like, a 1076 00:54:03,613 --> 00:54:06,063 little toe hole But they're very close. 1077 00:54:06,163 --> 00:54:10,333 Like, they wrap around your ankles, the canvas upper, the jute sole. 1078 00:54:10,393 --> 00:54:14,483 And what's funny is, I would never wear the blue outfit in that photo again. 1079 00:54:14,673 --> 00:54:17,153 Honestly, I can't believe I ever did

wear it. 1080 00:54:17,253 --> 00:54:20,033 But I still own those shoes, and I still wear them sometimes. 1081 00:54:20,053 --> 00:54:22,173 Like, I think they are pretty timeless. 1082 00:54:22,273 --> 00:54:23,073 They're really cute. 1083 00:54:23,123 --> 00:54:27,063 It's, like, a lemon yellow and white striped pattern on them. 1084 00:54:27,163 --> 00:54:28,143 You're a heels girl. 1085 00:54:28,163 --> 00:54:28,943 I am not. 1086 00:54:28,993 --> 00:54:33,303 so these are great for me because I can wear them as a platform and get 1087 00:54:33,303 --> 00:54:36,713 some height, but I don't really care for a lot of platforms, but I do love 1088 00:54:36,713 --> 00:54:40,033 a platform espadrille, so they're kind of perfect in that regard. 1089 00:54:40,093 --> 00:54:42,753 I also have my eye on some that I would like to acquire. 1090 00:54:42,853 --> 00:54:47,453 But yeah, I feel like honestly any warm weather situation can't really go wrong 1091 00:54:47,553 --> 00:54:48,023 Yoana: Totally. 1092 00:54:48,073 --> 00:54:50,103 I have the shoe in my mind. 1093 00:54:50,183 --> 00:54:52,143 I had to pull up the photo from your Instagram. 1094 00:54:52,243 --> 00:54:53,893 But, some things are cyclical. 1095 00:54:54,073 --> 00:54:57,303 Hope to God that nothing that we're both wearing in that outfit is ever cyclical 1096 00:54:57,403 --> 00:54:58,773 or that we're wearing in that photo. 1097 00:54:58,873 --> 00:55:00,823 But those shoes, like yeah, those are timeless. 1098 00:55:00,823 --> 00:55:03,163 Like, it's kinda one of those things that if you had it in your closet 1099 00:55:03,163 --> 00:55:07,003 when you were 18, like if they're not beat up and they still fit you, like 1100 00:55:07,003 --> 00:55:08,363 you shouldn't really throw them away. 1101 00:55:08,363 --> 00:55:09,203 Like, why would you? 1102 00:55:09,377 --> 00:55:12,037 Chandler: I don't think I own anything in that photo still. 1103 00:55:12,067 --> 00:55:14,667 The only thing I still own is those shoes because they've survived a 1104 00:55:14,667 --> 00:55:17,847 lot of closet cleanouts because they're really cute and timeless. 1105 00:55:17,897 --> 00:55:20,667 I think, to the point I was making about the old money thing, I 1106 00:55:20,667 --> 00:55:23,517 do actually feel like they feed into that a little bit for me. 1107 00:55:23,557 --> 00:55:26,047 Like, I feel like Grace Kelly when I've got those on, and 1108 00:55:26,047 --> 00:55:27,947 she's got old money vibes to me. 1109 00:55:28,047 --> 00:55:32,647 I wanna put on, like, long line linen shorts, a striped tee, and some 1110 00:55:32,647 --> 00:55:34,967 espadrilles, and hair in a ponytail. 1111 00:55:35,023 --> 00:55:35,543 Yoana: I love that. 1112 00:55:35,623 --> 00:55:37,923 I think we need a Sarcurious trip to Spain 1113 00:55:38,023 --> 00:55:40,743 Chandler: Mm, dude, I love Spain 1114 00:55:40,843 --> 00:55:41,153 Yoana: I know. 1115 00:55:41,333 --> 00:55:42,103 I've never been 1116 00:55:42,203 --> 00:55:43,433 Chandler: Dude, it's not right. 1117 00:55:43,509 --> 00:55:44,269 Yoana: It is wrong. 1118 00:55:44,369 --> 00:55:45,229 We do have to go. 1119 00:55:45,329 --> 00:55:46,599 Well, thanks for listening 1120 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:47,786 Chandler: I think that wraps it up. 1121 00:55:47,886 --> 00:55:50,866 So we'll catch you next time, and have a good one 1122 00:55:50,966 --> 00:55:51,026 Yoana: Yeah. 1123 00:55:51,126 --> 00:55:51,576 Bye guys. 1124 00:55:51,676 --> 00:55:52,076 Love ya 1125 00:55:52,098 --> 00:55:52,208 Chandler: Love you. 1126 00:55:54,087 --> 00:55:55,067 i'm so scared. 1127 00:55:55,801 --> 00:55:56,421 Yoana: We're live? 1128 00:55:56,521 --> 00:55:56,891 Okay. 1129 00:55:56,941 --> 00:55:56,961 I'm gonna' 1130 00:55:57,061 --> 00:55:58,821 Chandler: The smile you just did was kind of scary 1131 00:55:58,921 --> 00:56:01,191 Yoana: We're here 30 minutes later. 1132 00:56:01,301 --> 00:56:02,161 Chandler: I'm scared right now 1133 00:56:02,261 --> 00:56:03,541 Yoana: Oh, God 1134 00:56:03,641 --> 00:56:04,581 Chandler: Let's see how that sounds 1135 00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:07,181 Yoana: It's time 1136 00:56:07,628 --> 00:56:09,468 Chandler: I'm getting oily 1137 00:56:09,568 --> 00:56:10,798 I have two AirPods in 1138 00:56:10,898 --> 00:56:11,188 Okay. 1139 00:56:11,288 --> 00:56:12,148 Hi 1140 00:56:12,248 --> 00:56:13,268 Yoana: crazy times