התמלול המלא של Writing Evil: Inside the Mind of a Thriller Author

conspiracy theories of stereotyping, which taps into so many things that are in the headlines today in America, as well as 30 miles from here, salem Massachusetts. 00:05:53.939 --> 00:05:58.132 In 1692, when witches were burned, were hanged, not burned. 00:05:58.132 --> 00:06:04.312 Europe hanged, burned a lot of witches in 1692 in these famous Salem witch trials. 00:06:04.312 --> 00:06:05.584 So it just connects to all that. 00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:14.786 So what was the inspiration for this novel for you, especially the fact that she's, I mean Roman, or some people. 00:06:14.786 --> 00:06:19.485 We don't call them gypsies anymore, right, it's not politically correct, which is it's a wrong name. 00:06:19.605 --> 00:06:22.982 I mean, they were mistaken for coming from Egypt, which they did not come from Egypt. 00:06:22.982 --> 00:06:28.694 They came from northern India four or five centuries ago and then spread throughout eastern and western Europe. 00:06:28.694 --> 00:06:58.656 I think, like any novelist who writes crime stories, I have a file of true life crimes that are really disturbing, really bizarre, and one of them jumped out at me back in 2014 and stuck in my head for a long time, and it's the famous Slender man case, in which two girls from Wisconsin lured another girl, 12 years old, into the woods and they stabbed her 19 times. 00:06:58.656 --> 00:07:06.553 Luckily, the victim survived, but the two assailants are still in psychiatric institutions. 00:07:06.553 --> 00:07:08.485 So this is bizarre, natasha. 00:07:08.485 --> 00:07:11.961 I mean, why would 12-year-old kids do a terrible thing to a 12-year-old friend? 00:07:11.961 --> 00:07:14.569 And it's. 00:07:14.730 --> 00:07:15.733 That's a true story. 00:07:15.833 --> 00:07:21.588 It's a true story, absolutely true story, and these two young girls are still in psychiatric institutions. 00:07:22.269 --> 00:07:40.732 They told the police that they seriously believe that an internet cartoon character known as Slenderman, a faceless male figure with an elongated wearing a black suit and white shirt, would kill their families if they did not sacrifice their friend. 00:07:41.334 --> 00:07:50.766 Now that is bizarre, but it reflects dangerous superstitions and a reality that is true only because you believe it's true. 00:07:51.307 --> 00:08:24.870 There are no supernatural elements in my book, but that particular true life case made me look into a real scourge of American adolescence, which is bullying, and I looked into bullying, did a lot of research on bullying and found out that the bully victim is always somebody who is different, somebody who is kind of an outsider, someone who maybe is too tall or too short or too heavy or too thin, or speaks with an accent or comes from a different economics or socioeconomics stratum. 00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:40.042 And so I decided to invent a victim from Slovakia, from a rural pig farm, who is very attractive and very smart and wants to belong, but she is different and she is the one who becomes victimized by all these derogatory. 00:08:40.042 --> 00:08:50.869 She is the one who becomes victimized by all these derogatory stereotypes and eventually is consumed in a fire in the backyard of her host family. 00:08:50.869 --> 00:09:00.413 But it was that bullying that connected me to this story or gave me the inspiration for the story that I came up with in Rumor of Evil. 00:09:00.875 --> 00:09:05.157 And you mentioned if I'm not mistaken, it's a part of a series Is that true? 00:09:05.397 --> 00:09:14.402 Yes, okay, why a series? 00:09:14.402 --> 00:09:21.702 Yeah, the last novel I did I co-wrote with Tess Gerritsen, who was an internationally famous novelist and we've been friends for 30 years, and it was a police procedural called Choose Me. 00:09:21.702 --> 00:09:42.326 It did very well here and overseas and I decided that I had had two previous of the 10 or 11 novels out there I'd done two police as protagonists, but I never thought of doing series until this one and I talked to my agent. 00:09:42.326 --> 00:09:44.568 He said yeah, why don't you consider doing a series? 00:09:44.568 --> 00:09:49.916 And so I came up with the two detectives and wrote Rumor of Evil. 00:09:49.916 --> 00:09:51.206 And the second one is done. 00:09:51.206 --> 00:09:56.009 It's called In the Heat of the Moment and I'm currently working on the third in the series. 00:09:56.630 --> 00:09:59.077 And series are fun. 00:09:59.077 --> 00:10:07.659 You have the same cast of characters, you move from crime to crime to crime and also locales are in place. 00:10:07.659 --> 00:10:12.638 So it really is convenient not to have to come up with a whole new cast of characters. 00:10:12.638 --> 00:10:16.047 So that's why I'm doing a series and also I like the two characters. 00:10:16.047 --> 00:10:24.590 I like the actually four characters I'm moving the two detectives and Kirk's wife and also the police captain. 00:10:24.590 --> 00:10:31.667 So those people are already in place and so the series is moving without having too many other characters. 00:10:32.196 --> 00:10:43.682 So from your bio, you're very busy, you're a professor, you teach fiction, and when do you have the time to write all of these books and what's your writing routine? 00:10:43.822 --> 00:10:47.625 Okay, I retired about a little over a year ago from teaching at Northeastern. 00:10:47.625 --> 00:10:56.524 I've been there for a long time and I quit at the right time, retired at the right time and I retired also to write full-time. 00:10:56.524 --> 00:10:58.501 It was one every two years. 00:10:58.501 --> 00:11:03.523 I have a novel every two years because I had a full schedule and I was teaching workshops here and there. 00:11:04.294 --> 00:11:18.447 And now my two sons are grown up, they're out of the house and I'm no longer having to drive into town in Northeastern Boston or teach and so I'm writing full time and I'm a morning person and I don't need that

much sleep. 00:11:18.447 --> 00:11:37.719 So I usually get up about five o'clock in the morning and click right in and have a cup of strong French roast to get my heart going and I usually write a good part of the day, maybe eight hours or so, taking a two-hour bike ride break or go to the gym if my wife and I don't have any particular social engagements. 00:11:37.719 --> 00:11:45.024 But I usually write full-time now and the time passes when you get into the writing zone and things are working out nicely. 00:11:46.255 --> 00:11:47.721 Eight hours a day Wow. 00:11:47.721 --> 00:11:50.774 And how many words a day do you write? 00:11:51.375 --> 00:11:54.280 Some days it flows, I maybe have five pages. 00:11:54.280 --> 00:12:02.102 Other days I look at the screen, the screen's looking at me and neither of us is doing anything, so most days are pretty good. 00:12:02.102 --> 00:12:07.707 I always crank out maybe a page or two or maybe three, but it's it's always in my head, as you know, natasha. 00:12:07.707 --> 00:12:10.498 I mean when you're writing you don't even have to be at the keyboard. 00:12:10.498 --> 00:12:16.538 You're always thinking, you're taking notes or making writing things down on three by five cards, or talking into your phone. 00:12:16.538 --> 00:12:19.501 So yeah, I'm always kind of in that mode. 00:12:19.942 --> 00:12:29.701 So the mystery genre is very popular these days, especially crime and real crime, and why do you think that is? 00:12:29.701 --> 00:12:34.169 And I feel like it keeps getting increasing in popularity. 00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:47.327 I was looking at the I think it was the Spotify or the Apple podcast ranking of the top podcast and number one was Crime Junkie in, you know, on all of the US, which is, you know, true crime. 00:12:47.327 --> 00:12:50.544 Why do people like crime and true crime? 00:12:50.544 --> 00:12:52.000 What's with this obsession? 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.519 I love true crime. 00:12:53.538 --> 00:12:56.186 You know, like Dateline, all of that stuff. 00:12:56.186 --> 00:12:57.480 I write crime. 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.903 So what's our psyche? 00:13:00.903 --> 00:13:02.140 Why do we like this stuff? 00:13:51.115 --> 00:14:03.048 I think there's always been a fascination why people do terrible things, always a fascination in crime, ever since Edgar Allan Poe wrote the first detective story back in 1830 or something or other. 00:14:03.048 --> 00:14:15.188 So I think that that has always fascinated us If in fact evil is nature versus the product of nature or nurture, and why people do things. 00:14:15.188 --> 00:14:18.584 I've often had a workshop Love your Villain. 00:14:18.584 --> 00:14:36.943 And I think that villains in literature are different than villains in real life only because villains in real life their motives are sometimes foggy, because villains in real life their motives are sometimes foggy, we don't get them or they're kind of grubby and dumb like someone shooting on impulse. 00:14:36.943 --> 00:14:59.007 But the difference between life and literature is literature has to make sense and I think that villains, most villains in literature, are a lot more interesting than real life villains, because we as writers have to make them a lot more interesting than kind of cardboard punch outs that you might get in comic books or in the early James Bond movies. 00:14:59.007 --> 00:15:03.386 You just see a bad guy, you know he's a bad guy and James Bond and company got to go after him. 00:15:03.386 --> 00:15:10.940 But I think that a real villain does not get up in the morning and look in the morning mirror and say there is the face of evil. 00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:21.723 I think they have in their own minds sweet smelling reasons why they do bad stuff I was abused by, I had terrible parents and I was abused by them. 00:15:21.743 --> 00:15:29.944 Or I was at odds with our neighbors, or we were born poor, so I was at odds with the socioeconomic level of society. 00:15:29.944 --> 00:15:33.195 Or I was at odds with the law, with police. 00:15:33.195 --> 00:15:35.279 I was at odds with my classmates. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.205 I was at odds with society in general. 00:15:38.205 --> 00:15:40.841 I may have been at odds with nature. 00:15:40.841 --> 00:15:42.968 I was born with a disability of some sort. 00:15:43.631 --> 00:15:45.517 So I think they're always getting back. 00:15:45.517 --> 00:15:47.683 I think that real victims get back. 00:15:47.683 --> 00:15:53.501 They rob banks because they don't have any money and they never did, or they have a drug issue or whatever. 00:15:53.501 --> 00:16:13.186 So I think that in books people look to see what the writer's creative imagination will come up with in terms of motives, because even in the court of law, with all these legal minds, motives aren't often established. 00:16:13.186 --> 00:16:21.277 It's much more you did this crime, you're going to get punished for it, and motives might be just summarized in five or 10 words or less. 00:16:21.277 --> 00:16:39.978 So I think that that is part of why people turn to mysteries they want to know what, through the writer's mind motivated these criminals in these stories to do bad things, and also hoping for justice at the end, because the real world doesn't always end with justice, as we know. 00:16:40.338 --> 00:16:40.620 True. 00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:47.197 So what would you tell someone who wants to write mystery? 00:16:47.197 --> 00:16:50.383 What are your top tips? 00:16:50.383 --> 00:16:52.086 I guess your secret tips. 00:16:52.587 --> 00:16:53.188 Sure, sure. 00:16:53.188 --> 00:16:55.061 That's another good question, natasha. 00:16:55.061 --> 00:17:10.287 I taught creative writing for 40 plus years and most of the students in those writing courses here and in Hawaii, where I taught for several seasons in Europe are writing mysteries or thrillers. 00:17:10.287 --> 00:17:40.258 There is a difference and that's not important to get into,

but what I tell them and I think it is very wise for anyone who wants to write a novel is read those authors you greatly respect, want to grow up to write like or you strongly emulate and look at their novels the way a carpenter looks at a house, that is, study the angles, study how they have themes are developed from chapter to chapter. 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.306 Study how they get in and out of scenes. 00:17:43.306 --> 00:17:49.159 Study how in a patch of dialogue, maybe six inches on a page, you can have two people talking. 00:17:49.159 --> 00:17:59.722 But their vocabulary, the way they say things, how they are dressed, distinguishes them without even having to have attribution he said, she said, or by names. 00:17:59.722 --> 00:18:09.205 Notice how most chapters end in kind of cliffhanger endings that it makes you, at one o'clock in the morning, not put the book down. 00:18:09.205 --> 00:18:11.681 Oh heck, I've got to read the next chapter because I'm really hooked. 00:18:11.681 --> 00:18:17.680 I want to see where this is going, how there's often action scenes followed by reflection scenes. 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:22.978 Action scenes followed by reflection scenes fast, slow, dramatic and more thoughtful. 00:18:22.978 --> 00:18:29.258 And so you get the sense of the architecture of how books are written. 00:18:29.258 --> 00:18:31.684 It means not reading for plot. 00:18:31.744 --> 00:18:34.340 I tell my students Study how they do it. 00:18:34.340 --> 00:18:37.703 Look at the individual sentences and how. 00:18:37.703 --> 00:18:56.023 In fast scenes, there's a narrative thrust because the sentences are shorter, they don't begin with long participial phrases, there's no use of the passive voice A voice was heard in the cellar versus Mary heard a voice in the cellar. 00:18:56.023 --> 00:19:02.200 And that you dramatize instead of tell, you show instead of tell. 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:08.441 Instead of saying that Mary was angry, show Mary picking up her coffee cup and smashing it on the floor. 00:19:08.441 --> 00:19:12.224 Those are the tips I constantly pass on to students. 00:19:12.224 --> 00:19:14.462 But read slowly and carefully. 00:19:14.462 --> 00:19:15.758 Study how others do it. 00:19:16.441 --> 00:19:17.082 Who do you read? 00:19:17.082 --> 00:19:17.805 Who do you study? 00:19:18.036 --> 00:19:25.799 I don't read anyone when I'm writing, but I'll tell you the ones I had used in my course in detective fiction and science fiction horror fiction bestsellers. 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:28.463 Michael Connolly is one of my favorites. 00:19:28.463 --> 00:19:36.448 The Irish writer, Tana French, my co-author in the last book Choose Me a, Tess Gerritsen. 00:19:36.448 --> 00:19:45.355 I love the writings of Louise Erdrich, even though she's not categorized as a mystery or thriller writer. 00:19:45.355 --> 00:19:52.489 One of my favorite books by her is the Round House by Louise Erdrich, which has a murder mystery in it. 00:19:52.489 --> 00:20:04.269 I like Stephen King I've taught Stephen King in the past and Dean Kuntz, who's quite literary and who is a much better writer than the genre asks him to be. 00:20:04.269 --> 00:20:15.961 So I have several and my former and late best friend and office mate, Robert Parker, who wrote 60 novels and most of them detective stories. 00:20:15.961 --> 00:20:26.426 So I have had a favorite authors, even though it might be said I have favorite books, because I have not read all the books by all the authors I mentioned. 00:20:26.426 --> 00:20:31.406 But I do have favorite books and the authors I mentioned are terrific. 00:20:31.954 --> 00:20:38.480 What books should writers of mystery read, or aspiring writers, what books should they read? 00:20:38.674 --> 00:20:41.159 Well, the ones I mentioned, read Gary Braver. 00:20:43.224 --> 00:20:45.128 Of course Goes without saying. 00:20:46.717 --> 00:20:49.164 I would read Tess Gerritsen. 00:20:49.164 --> 00:20:52.004 She has a novel that just came out by a former co-author. 00:20:52.004 --> 00:21:05.385 Stephen King has a very good book on writing it came out 15 years ago which I recommend to check out, just giving some ideas and some tips other than what I passed on. 00:21:05.385 --> 00:21:20.448 But you know I look for literary quality of writers and the ones I mentioned Michael Connolly in particular the Harry Botch novels are well done. 00:21:20.448 --> 00:21:36.029 The trouble I had had as an English teacher is the swarm of new novels that were self-published. 00:21:36.830 --> 00:22:01.197 There's nothing wrong with self-publishing because today the major houses on the waterfront in New York City are overwhelmed with manuscript submissions and don't have a time to read it all, and they often hire an English major graduate from NYU or Columbia to read all the stuff that comes in, and anything hits them as a potential they'll pass it on up to superiors. 00:22:01.197 --> 00:22:11.368 The problem with the tsunami of self-published books is they're not vetted by agents. 00:22:11.368 --> 00:22:19.531 Agents get 15% of whatever they try to sell and they're usually not vetted by really professional, experienced editors. 00:22:19.531 --> 00:22:29.277 So what often is published by self-published people are books that really are not as well-written as they were 30 years ago. 00:22:29.277 --> 00:22:37.346 We'll say, when you had an agent with a literary background have a sense of what the marketplace would demand. 00:22:37.346 --> 00:22:46.507 And then editors in the publishing houses that are trying to make money but also maintain a standard of writing. 00:22:46.507 --> 00:22:50.961 So that's my main complaint as a former English professor writing. 00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:53.734 So that's my main complaint as a former English professor. 00:22:53.734 --> 00:23:00.799 But yeah, but don't you think sometimes the author wants more control of what they write? 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:08.423 And now, with the advent

of social media, some authors can actually sell more books without an agent and without a publishing house. 00:23:08.423 --> 00:23:21.461 It's like cutting the middleman agent and without a publishing house it's like cutting the middleman um, and I've heard from authors who were traditionally published but then they went to self-publishing because they wanted more sure yeah so that's another way of it. 00:23:21.662 --> 00:23:45.028 you know, especially that, as you said, uh, and some of the authors that I talked to say that you know, I'm not sure I'm going to be alive or live long to get my manuscript accepted by an agent, and time is short, you know, and the traditional publishing journey is extremely slow, extremely slow. 00:23:45.028 --> 00:23:51.145 So I mean, that's another point of view, I guess. 00:23:51.145 --> 00:23:52.840 But I don't know. 00:23:54.136 --> 00:24:00.844 It's tricky these days, but there's also very talented people out there who are not getting published or even getting read by the traditional publishing. 00:24:00.844 --> 00:24:04.065 So I understand the impetus to self-publish. 00:24:04.065 --> 00:24:07.659 I spent three years on this manuscript and it's terrific and all my friends love it. 00:24:07.659 --> 00:24:11.621 And I gave it to my former English professor and he or she read it and said it's great and all my friends love it. 00:24:11.621 --> 00:24:15.779 And I gave it to my former English professor and he or she read it and said it's great and it's frustrating to try to put it in the hands of someone who's going to put it into print. 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:17.871 And that's I understand that impulse. 00:24:17.871 --> 00:24:20.519 And you're absolutely right, that's the other side, yeah. 00:24:20.619 --> 00:24:27.021 So you've been in the industry for a long time, so how did you find your first agent? 00:24:27.302 --> 00:24:38.489 Well, that was easy because this was back in the early 80s and I mentioned my office mate was Robert Parker and he had already begun his climb upward before he left Northeastern. 00:24:38.489 --> 00:24:47.414 And I finished a book and I said is there anyone in your Jack Hawkins agency that could look at this? 00:24:47.414 --> 00:24:48.017 And he said sure. 00:24:48.017 --> 00:24:50.863 So we sent it off and I got an agent almost instantly. 00:24:50.863 --> 00:25:00.922 But things were a lot easier back then and I always feel a little fraudulent when I'm teaching 20-something-year-olds in a fiction workshop. 00:25:01.735 --> 00:25:11.339 But I do remind them they have one thing that I don't have they have their youth on their side and, as you said, they'll live long enough to see something published if they got something decent. 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.283 But it is right now. 00:25:13.283 --> 00:25:42.589 I would hate to be breaking in as a middle-aged writer trying to break into the market, because unless you have a knockout book, and even if you do have a knockout book, getting someone to read it and to recognize it as a knockout book is hard, because it is almost as difficult to find an agent who could connect it to a major publishing house, which would give it the financial boost in marketing that it deserves. 00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:43.771 It's difficult. 00:25:45.413 --> 00:25:48.603 Yeah, how do you market your books? 00:26:02.182 --> 00:26:07.485 Do you outsource the marketing or what do you do? 00:26:07.485 --> 00:26:23.707 Social media, Facebook and I contact local libraries and bookstores to go in and do signings and do everything I can to get the word out. 00:26:23.707 --> 00:26:32.287 Rumor of Evil came out in October, which is a very hot month to have a book because everyone is aiming for the holiday sales. 00:26:32.287 --> 00:26:33.875 So it's it's. 00:26:33.875 --> 00:26:46.155 There's a flood of new books that had come out about the same time, but this one got fabulous reviews of pre-publication reviews and it was an editorial pick on amazon for the month of october when it came out. 00:26:46.155 --> 00:26:51.039 So it's gotten nice, um, nice promotion just from that. 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:58.267 But you still have to keep on reminding readers that I'm here and this is a good book and I hope you buy it, because that's what it's all about. 00:26:59.627 --> 00:27:04.331 What is the platform or the manner where you're selling more books? 00:27:04.331 --> 00:27:08.518 Is it online or is it through book reading? 00:27:08.818 --> 00:27:12.507 It's probably more online because you can reach more people. 00:27:12.507 --> 00:27:21.876 If you go to a library I was in a library two nights ago and maybe 30 people showed up and a good number bought books, but it's much more. 00:27:21.876 --> 00:27:32.181 You have greater distribution, dispersion, online buying, ads on BookBub and Shelf Awareness and those kinds of things. 00:27:32.181 --> 00:27:41.521 It gets very costly, but it's the only way to be recognized given all the flood of all this other information that's coming out. 00:27:41.521 --> 00:27:48.108 So online, I would say, is the easiest way to reach more people. 00:27:48.569 --> 00:27:55.566 So I was listening to a podcast the other day with a top literary agent and what was she saying? 00:27:55.566 --> 00:28:03.614 That what sell books now are not reviews in the New York Times or lists in, you know, New York Times. 00:28:03.614 --> 00:28:08.251 It's if the book becomes viral on places like TikTok. 00:28:08.251 --> 00:28:12.069 And you know, one example is Colleen Hoover. 00:28:12.069 --> 00:28:15.750 So you know she's a romance author. 00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:23.692 She, I think she, sold more books than Stephen King now and it's all because of TikTok. 00:28:23.692 --> 00:28:25.822 Yeah, it's all because of TikTok. 00:28:25.822 --> 00:28:46.731 So how do you feel about the fact that it's the younger generation who just want instant gratification on just scrolling through videos and that's how they decide what

books to buy, instead of reading a lengthy, well-thought-of book review? 00:28:46.731 --> 00:28:52.079 How is that going to change the book marketing or the book industry? 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:59.221 Well, I think it's a kind of marketing that is just by word of mouth, I mean TikTok. 00:28:59.221 --> 00:29:03.392 It sells through the influencers all sorts of products. 00:29:03.392 --> 00:29:11.884 I'm not sure how an influencer manages to influence so many different things. 00:29:11.884 --> 00:29:29.577 If they read a book and it hits them somehow as being something that is worth distributing and worth promoting, I would like to know that secret, and I'm not sure how many books those sell. 00:29:29.577 --> 00:29:46.374 And that, but the, the one you just mentioned, someone who sold more than Stephen King, but that might be, is that called yeah, yeah, she, yeah, and I like to know the magic of that because I would like to exploit that if possible. 00:29:46.701 --> 00:29:47.823 I read one of her books. 00:29:47.823 --> 00:29:56.331 It's okay, it's adequate and it's a page turner in some respects, but it seems to be to me somewhat formulaic. 00:29:56.331 --> 00:30:14.108 But that is, I was not the audience it was written for, and one of the things I've learned in the last several years and something I've known, actually since a long time ago is that 80% of all the books in America are purchased by females and that there is a. 00:30:14.108 --> 00:30:18.240 The last book I did with Tess Gerritsen, choose me. 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:24.861 We had sensitivity editors read the book and make sure there was nothing that was offensive to females. 00:30:24.861 --> 00:30:30.310 There wasn't nothing that was offensive to minorities. 00:30:31.353 --> 00:31:00.346 At one point I had described a student I did a male point of view chapters and she did the female point of view chapters, and I had a professor in class and described a young male as being chubby, and they scratched the word chubby and so we have to come up with a synonym for chubby so that not offend any readers out there who might be overweight and didn't want to border on body shaming. 00:31:00.346 --> 00:31:02.329 So we just changed the description of this kid. 00:31:02.329 --> 00:31:24.133 So there is, there is a sensitivity out there and it's also based on knowing your audience and, um, yeah, and I think this tiktok moment, I think colleen hoover whoever influenced here was very aware of the audience and managed to sell tons of books yeah, another example is the author of fourth wing, um. 00:31:24.374 --> 00:31:37.072 It's a fantasy novel and I was reading the other day that people were queuing outside Barzal Noble in Manhattan at midnight to get the second book. 00:31:37.072 --> 00:31:45.186 It's like the new Harry Potter, and I found out about her from TikTok, honestly, and of course, I bought the book. 00:31:45.186 --> 00:31:56.686 I haven't read it yet, but I bought it because I had to and people are just going crazy for it and it all started on TikTok and I think she's a bestseller. 00:31:57.060 --> 00:31:57.742 Did you read the book? 00:31:57.762 --> 00:31:59.629 yet Not yet. 00:31:59.629 --> 00:32:05.632 I read a lot of books, so I'm always behind on my reading goals, on my reading goals. 00:32:05.632 --> 00:32:19.748 But yeah, so this really changed the equation from having a stellar review in the New York Times to, you know, dancing on TikTok with a book? 00:32:19.769 --> 00:32:33.114 Yeah, exactly this is what happened and it's funny, like I have maybe 100 followers on TikTok, I usually post just book reviews or clips from our interviews. 00:32:33.114 --> 00:32:56.480 I put it on TikTok and the book reviews do way better than the interviews, and some of the people who comment they say thank you very much, I just bought it and I'm not like a huge influencer on TikTok, and so it seems that they're willing to trust me and they buy the book when I talk about it. 00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:08.469 And I noticed that in other channels, like on Twitter, I have maybe over 10,000 followers and I talk about books, but nobody says I bought that book because of you. 00:33:08.469 --> 00:33:19.846 They say that on tiktok, so it is, so it's and I'm you know I'm not getting like anything, a kickback or anything from you know, recommending these, these, these books. 00:33:19.846 --> 00:33:23.432 I'm just do it for fun that's great so it's. 00:33:23.572 --> 00:33:32.240 it's interesting to see that people are more willing to buy books if they see them recommended on TikTok rather than other channels. 00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:33.965 So that's my kind of own discovery. 00:33:33.965 --> 00:33:35.971 So something to think about. 00:33:35.971 --> 00:33:51.873 Okay, so I published a mystery novel, finished another one, I'm working on a third one, and the third one is from the perspective parts of it from a perspective of a serial killer. 00:33:51.873 --> 00:33:56.009 Or we still don't know if he's a serial killer or not. 00:33:56.009 --> 00:34:00.347 We're suspecting he's a serial killer, so I'm not going to ruin it for you. 00:34:00.347 --> 00:34:08.550 And what you said about making that serial killer relatable kind of resonated with me. 00:34:08.550 --> 00:34:16.008 And now I'm thinking of, like at first, you know, that character was kind of nasty and mean he's. 00:34:16.008 --> 00:34:17.711 He's an old man. 00:34:17.711 --> 00:34:27.945 Now in the novel starts from him suffering from alzheimer and he got away with it, and he's like remembering and bringing back old memories and talking to you. 00:34:27.945 --> 00:34:33.626 Now I think maybe I should make him more of a charming old man rather than a cranky old man. 00:34:33.626 --> 00:34:37.526 So I don't know, what do you think? 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:39.605 Repeat the question again. 00:34:39.605 --> 00:34:40.246 Natasha, I'm sorry. 00:34:41.663 --> 00:34:48.430 Do you think I should make the villain

as an old man a charming old man or a cranky old man? 00:34:48.430 --> 00:35:05.954 Because he got away with his crime right and now we're hearing his perspective as an old man, we're inside his head and he's interacting with other people and you mentioned something about it's good to love the villain. 00:35:05.954 --> 00:35:14.481 So are you saying that I should switch from a cranky old man to a charming, sweet old man, although he is a serial killer? 00:35:14.522 --> 00:35:17.847 for sure, so did he do something wrong when he was younger? 00:35:17.847 --> 00:35:21.531 And now is recalling that Correct, correct. 00:35:21.531 --> 00:35:29.248 When he was younger, was he a nice person or not a nice person, or is it not clear? 00:35:30.332 --> 00:35:41.302 um, I think he was just a regular family man and nobody knew his secret like other serial killers uh, and so you're wondering if he should be a cranky old man. 00:35:42.363 --> 00:35:42.823 Are we gonna? 00:35:42.823 --> 00:35:48.288 It's your choice might depend on how seriously we take him. 00:35:48.288 --> 00:35:56.856 If his brain is foggy with dementia, it almost makes no difference what he is today. 00:35:56.856 --> 00:36:03.289 But I would probably make him not cranky, I would make him more forgiving. 00:36:03.289 --> 00:36:08.250 Is there justice meted out? 00:36:08.250 --> 00:36:09.533 No, no, okay. 00:36:09.533 --> 00:36:11.778 So he got away with something and now he's a demented old guy. 00:36:11.778 --> 00:36:12.359 Is there justice meted out? 00:36:12.359 --> 00:36:12.640 No, no, okay. 00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:18.227 So he got away with something and now he's a demented old guy. 00:36:18.247 --> 00:36:39.303 I'm thinking of ending it on kind of open ending, like you're not sure if he did it or not, if this is part of his dementia or it actually happened and you might want a third party to make it resolved, that is, I mean leaving it open-ended okay it may not be satisfying for the reader. 00:36:40.004 --> 00:36:42.429 They they may want it to be resolved. 00:36:42.429 --> 00:36:50.613 And because he no longer, if he is, if it's if he's a point of view character, he may not be reliable. 00:36:50.613 --> 00:37:00.503 So you may want someone from the outside to administer an explanation of what had happened, and I would. 00:37:00.503 --> 00:37:09.610 He goes out kind of pathetically anyways, I would probably not make him so grumbly, but I think you don't want to leave it open-ended. 00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:18.009 I think that's if there's a murder mystery involved in this, you want it resolved, even though some people say go either way. 00:37:18.009 --> 00:37:18.470 Yeah. 00:37:18.961 --> 00:37:28.108 Yeah, because I've read books that are unresolved and they do really well in the market, but I am pissed off when I finish them. 00:37:28.581 --> 00:37:44.568 It's like what happened, but yeah yeah, but they actually do really well and they get really high reviews and, um, so I don't know, but yeah, so that that was kind of like a live uh critique, which was fun. 00:37:44.568 --> 00:37:53.505 Um, so, before we conclude, is there anything you'd like to add, to say and how can people find you? 00:37:53.505 --> 00:37:55.850 How can they reach you through your website? 00:37:55.850 --> 00:37:57.160 How can they find your book? 00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:57.801 All of that. 00:37:57.821 --> 00:38:16.528 Yeah, my website is GaryBravercom G-A-R-Y-B-R-A-V-E-Rcom, and if and if there are people here in the Boston area have book clubs and want to adopt it, I will visit your book clubs and talk about the book. 00:38:16.528 --> 00:38:22.389 Within a 50-mile or 75-mile radius of Boston, the books can be purchased at any bookstore. 00:38:22.389 --> 00:38:35.551 If they don't have them on the shelves, just ask for Rumor of Evil, or you can purchase them on Kobo or Amazon or Google and the rather different platforms will pop up. 00:38:35.551 --> 00:38:38.128 But Amazon is where most people turn to. 00:38:38.128 --> 00:38:45.810 But I like supporting independent bookstores and so go to an independent bookstore that is not a chain. 00:38:45.810 --> 00:38:58.428 In fact, I strongly recommend buying most of your books from independent bookshop because we don't want to lose our bookstores and have everything sold by Amazon or Barnes and Noble. 00:38:58.649 --> 00:38:59.310 Well, thank you. 00:38:59.310 --> 00:39:05.813 Thank you very much for your time, gary, this has been wonderful, and thank you for the life critique of my manuscript. 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:07.163 Thank you, natasha, my pleasure. 00:39:07.182 --> 00:39:12.947 Yeah, good luck with your own writing Of course, yeah, thank you, appreciate it and best of luck. 00:39:12.947 --> 00:39:28.788 And, for anyone who's listening or watching, thank you for joining us for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and, until we meet again, thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. 00:39:28.788 --> 00:39:32.823 I'm your host, natasha Tynes. 00:39:32.823 --> 00:39:38.754 If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. 00:39:38.754 --> 00:39:44.472 Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. 00:39:44.472 --> 00:39:49.292 Until next time, happy reading, happy writing.