התמלול המלא של Self Publishing Without The Middleman

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WEBVTT 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:09.599 Mostly it's emotional pitches, from what I can see, you know, will make your book a bestseller. 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:10.960 That's a complete lie. 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.359 It's just they're tricking Amazon's algorithm. 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:18.239 It's you're not gonna sell a lot of books, you're just gonna lie about being a best-selling author. 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:23.440 I guess that appeals to some people, I don't know, but it's unethical, of course. 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:32.320 Hi friends, this is Read and Write with Natasha Podcast. 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:36.960 My name is Natasha Tines, and I'm an author and a journalist. 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:42.560 In this channel, I talk about the writing life, review books, and interview authors. 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:44.799 Hope you enjoy the journal. 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.520 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Read and Write with Natasha. 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.960 I have with me today author and publishing expert, Michelle De Filippo. 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.600 She has more than 50 years of experience in book publishing. 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:06.239 She's the author of Publish Like the Prose. 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:17.280 Her company 1106 Design makes it easy for authors to release a top quality book, keep control of it, and earn more money, more money every time they sell a copy. 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:24.560 Michelle is on a mission to help authors ask the right questions and to make informed decisions about publishing their books. 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.079 Alright, this is exciting. 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:27.760 Thank you for being here, Michelle. 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.040 Thank you for having me. 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.480 Yeah, especially to talk with someone who's a veteran like you in the publishing industry. 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:53.280 And I'm excited to talk about self-publishing, especially now that I'm seeing if you agree with the statement that self-publishing no longer has the stigma that it used to have in the past, whereas they used to call it vanity press or vanity publishing. 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:58.719 So I'd love to hear your opinion about first the stigma around self-publishing and is that changing. 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.040 Well, you're absolutely correct about that. 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.799 Self-publishing is accepted now, mostly because it's really difficult to be traditionally published. 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:10.319 Very difficult for authors to be picked up by a major publisher. 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:23.520 And so now that we have the technology and the expertise uh readily available to authors, many of them, instead of just going away and being disappointed that they can't get a publishing deal, they can publish it themselves, and that's great. 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:30.479 There's a lot of misunderstanding about self-publishing, though, and that's that's the reason I like to do these podcasts, and we can get into that. 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:31.439 Oh, great. 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:49.680 So what I've been hearing lately from authors, and I talk a lot of I talk with a lot of authors, especially on this podcast, is that the shift now that in the past they would tell you, oh, if you self-publish, no publishing company would look at you afterwards. 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.319 You're you're like banned for life, right? 00:02:52.719 --> 00:03:02.960 But then now the shift is you self-publish, you have a big audience, the publishing company will actually approach you after you self-publish. 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:15.680 Do you agree with the statement that it's kind of things are reversed now that they're and some authors that I talked to, they said they were approached by publishing companies and they actually turned down the pub, the big one of them is like the top was it? 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:25.840 I think it was Random House or somewhere like one of the top five, because they did the math and they had a big audience, so it did not make any sense for them to go with the top. 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:27.599 So I would like to hear your thoughts on that. 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:29.599 Well, that's actually the key point now. 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:43.599 See, it used to be that you had to work with a publisher because they were the only ones who could get you distribution to the retailers, and they were the only ones that could give your book enough publicity so that it could sell a decent number of copies. 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.759 But that's all changed with self-publishing. 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.439 Amazon changed all that. 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:54.080 Now it's possible for anyone to get distribution to the to the public without much effort at all. 00:03:54.319 --> 00:04:00.879 And so, especially for authors who already have that big list, they really don't need a publisher of any kind. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.719 And that's that's uh sort of where the misunderstanding is coming in. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:10.800 A lot of authors don't realize you do not have to work with any sort of publisher to self-publish your book. 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:24.160 You need services, and there are plenty of author service companies like mine that can help you get everything done that you need to get done, but you do not have to work with any publisher who's gonna share your revenue from sales. 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:34.639 So your business model is you help them self-publish and and you don't take a cut from like you don't take royalty cut from the royalties, or what do you do? 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:36.399 Or like what is your business model? 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:37.360 That's correct. 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:43.439 Traditional publishers usually shoulder all of the expenses to to create the book, right? 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:54.240 And then they pay an author a small royalty in return so that they can recoup most of uh

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they can recoup their investment from book sales, and that's just that's a fair business model. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:06.480 But today's publishers, some of them are call themselves hybrid publishers, whatever name they go by, they're charging the author to produce the book, and they're also taking revenue from sales on the back end. 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:15.040 So that doesn't work out really well for authors, and that's that's really my main mission is to try to get that message out because it's it's becoming forgotten. 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:18.480 People think they need a publisher to self-publish, and you really don't. 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:25.279 But you do need professional services to produce a good book, and that's what we help authors do. 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.279 We help them with all of these services, editing and design services. 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:38.959 We help them get uploaded on the print-on-demand platforms so that when a book is sold, they get all of the net revenue deposited directly to their bank account. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:40.079 We don't take a penny. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:40.879 I see. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:46.319 So, what are the main mistakes that self-published authors do? 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.000 That's why people say, oh, it's a self-published book, it's not good enough. 00:05:50.160 --> 00:06:00.000 So, how do they actually try to avoid these mistakes so that their book would look and feel like like professional book rather than like a quote-unquote self-published book? 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.879 Well, well, to get a professional book, you have to hire professionals who know what they're doing, right? 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:14.480 And that's that's the the the narrative out there is that self-publishing means doing it yourself or finding someone who's really cheap on Fiverr who will do it. 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:19.199 And and that's not likely to get you the professional level book you need. 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:26.319 Good editors, good designers take a lot of time with your book and they charge accordingly for their time and their talent. 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:40.240 So if you're going, if you're serious about publishing a book for your business, let's say, you should really expect to invest a significant amount of money to get the top quality people that you need to do the job. 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.879 Now, if you're publishing as a hobby, it doesn't matter. 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:44.079 You can hire anyone. 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:55.920 But the problems come in when you're publishing professionally or you aim to publish professionally, and then you take the hobbyist approach and hire people who are not really qualified to do the job. 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:56.639 I see. 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:15.759 So if if we want to think like numbers, what would should be the bulk number of investment that authors should keep in mind to have a self-published book, whether they do it on their

own or whether they hire a company like yours, what kind of money are we looking at? 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:22.000 Okay, well, I yeah, they shouldn't do it on their own unless unless they're qualified to do that work, right? 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:30.240 But but so so for us, typically a non-fiction book will be in the nine to ten thousand dollar range for a 50,000-word book. 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:37.519 That's full service, all the way from editing all the way through to distribution setup and all the hand holding and advice you need along the way. 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.600 Uh fiction would be a little less expensive, more in the$8,000 range. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.319 Why why is fiction less expensive? 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:44.879 I'm curious. 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:46.319 Well, it's simpler, right? 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:59.920 If you look at it at the uh interior pages of a novel, they're very quick and easy to do, whereas nonfiction might have tables and charts and the heads and the subheads and outline type text, all of all of that. 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.920 So it takes longer to design the interior of a nonfiction book. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:10.000 So your team would have an editor, a cover designer, a typesetter. 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.199 Like w who are you who's who are your team members? 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:14.639 Like what are their roles? 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:16.319 I I didn't quite hear that. 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:17.040 It broke up. 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:20.079 Ah, sorry, like what are the roles of your team members? 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.519 Like I would expect a designer, an editor, what else? 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:25.920 Like, who are the the team members that you hire? 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.600 Yeah, I have a team of 20 people now, and we work, we yeah. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:36.000 So when a book comes in, I can assign it to an editor who has experience in that in that genre, right? 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:41.200 Whether it's fiction or nonfiction or business or religious or philosophy or whatever it might be. 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:52.399 And then I have I have designers, I have proofreaders, I have cover designers, interior designers, proofreaders, ebook formatters, the whole thing, audiobooks, if people want to do that. 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:54.879 So we can we can handle just about everything. 00:08:55.039 --> 00:09:06.000 But our main our main strength is that we're a small company, we're not gonna put you on a big company, publishing company assembly line and and give everybody the same solution. 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:14.080 It is custom work and it's in collaboration with you, so that we do our best to bring your vision to life. 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.960 It's always a two uh you know complete collaboration. 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:17.759 I see. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:29.840 Okay, I want to talk a bit about AI and the role of AI now since and it's it's moving really fast and it's improving. 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:42.080 How do you feel about using AI, whether in the cover design or even in producing the audio using and a voice claw user companies like Eleven Labs and so on and so forth? 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.960 So, what is how were these done when it comes to the use of AI now? 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:51.440 We've actually done a series of articles about this on our Substack newsletter. 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:58.240 I think it's great and valuable in terms of helping authors research and get ready to write the book. 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:09.919 I don't think it's well, it's not there yet in terms of quality, but I don't think it's a good thing to try to use AI to replace human creativity, human advice, human collaboration. 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:11.840 I it's it's not there. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:22.879 It's just it's a it's a machine that's gonna spit out information, but but it's not it's not a real conversation, even though it's even though it sounds like it is. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:29.840 It's not the same as as someone who has decades of experience sitting down with you and saying, okay, here's what I think we should do. 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:31.200 What do you think about it? 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.519 Here's my idea for a strategy. 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.320 You know, who do you want to market to? 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:37.840 What is your book about? 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.559 You know, that can't be replaced. 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.039 What about using it for design? 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:45.679 And you can go back and forth with the AI. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.799 You say, like, I don't like this, fix this, whatever. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:55.039 Well well, the problem I have with that is it's scraping material from somewhere, right? 00:10:55.279 --> 00:11:01.919 It's probably scraping material from some artist's portfolio somewhere along the line to generate that idea. 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:03.279 It's also not ready yet. 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:13.440 You see covers where people have six fingers on their hand, and you know, it's just it's not the same as the human design process. 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:14.080 Okay. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.519 What about AI in terms of audio? 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:24.480 Uh, because I've uh I went to a conference the other last week, and they were talking about audio cloning. 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:42.559 So I can go to a company like 11 Labs and they would uh clone my voice even with this accent, and they would clone my voice, and instead of me paying thousands of dollars, they will they would just I use the clone to read record my book and I'm done. 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:44.720 I can hear the difference, can't you? 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:46.480 It sounds flat. 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:53.120 It's not the same as a human being uh uh uh giving emotion to the text. 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:58.879 I can't I you know maybe 20 years from now it'll it'll be

you you won't be able to hear the difference. 00:11:59.039 --> 00:11:59.679 I don't know. 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:05.039 We're at the beginning of something really big and really brand new, and we'll have to see it. 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.480 But I I still think that that people matter. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:17.600 Uh I hope we don't all have to just interact with some gigantic machine in order to live our lives and create our our content. 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:25.039 So do you use any AI tools in the production of of your books for your clients? 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:35.200 No, not in the production, because that's again, there's thousands of decisions that we make along the way in terms of how to design the book and and even when you're formatting a book. 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:36.879 Today they call it formatting. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:55.360 People don't remember that there's such a thing as book typesetting, which was which is a specialty all its own, and great care is taken there too, to get the spacing just right so that the reader is not distracted in any way, and the reader can focus on your text and comprehend your text. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.960 It's a big, it's a big it's a big uh task. 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:11.679 We work for traditional publishers as well, you know, as uh as indie authors, and they're very fussy, and and when that book is done, you you can tell that all of that attention to detail went into it. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:12.320 Okay. 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:18.159 So you're someone who's been in the publishing industry for a long time, 50 years, right? 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:19.600 That's a really long time. 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:23.120 So you're you've seen a lot of changes, right? 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:29.200 From the pub the publishing house changes, all of that. 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.879 So where do you see the future? 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:41.279 Is are we reaching a point where we might not need the big publishers anymore if if the tools are there? 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:44.240 Like where where are we headed in terms of the future? 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:46.080 I don't have a crystal ball. 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:47.519 I I I don't know. 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:59.519 I I I've been around long enough to hear people predict that this or that is going to be eliminated by the latest innovation, and it doesn't seem to happen, right? 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:12.720 Ebooks were, you know, television was supposed to replace radio, ebooks were supposed to replace print books, audiobooks were supposed supposed to replace ebooks and print books, and that has never happened ever. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:21.440 You know, I I think all of the all of the choices are still there, and that's good because people can engage with content however they want to. 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:26.960 So when do you think people should make the choice to self-publish? 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:34.080 So for example, I do book coaching,

and my clients, after they finish their manuscript, they say, now what? 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:49.120 So I tell them, like, okay, start with the traditional publisher, you need an age, but and then the minute they hear that it might actually take them years to even just get their foot on the door, they immediately say, No, life is too short. 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:50.559 I'm gonna self-up. 00:14:50.879 --> 00:15:00.320 So when do how do you advise your client when they come to you and they tell you, hey, what when do you think I should switch to the self-publishing route? 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:01.679 When is the deciding factor? 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:10.080 Well, we've worked with a number of people who were traditionally published, and then they got sick and tired of that model and and decided to self-publish, right? 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:19.039 So for the reasons you stated at the beginning, the revenue they get is is almost nothing, and you know, you it's delayed a long time before they can get paid. 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.759 So self-publishing addresses those issues. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:32.080 But I think I think what indie publishers could do better is more research about whether or not there's a market for their book even before they begin writing. 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.639 Right. 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:42.320 A lot of a lot of indie authors will just write the book that that they think is a good idea without without checking and seeing if anyone else would be interested in it. 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.840 So so that that's an improvement that could be made. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:55.440 And then, of course, a a lot of them make the mistake and and follow the the do-it-yourself narrative online, which leads to a terrible book, usually. 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.159 So they're they're hurting themselves. 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.919 They're trying to save money, but they're hurting themselves and they're they're actually preventing their own success. 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:05.279 Yeah, I see. 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:06.080 Okay. 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:11.840 So how can like people find you or find your services? 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:21.120 And you know, in addition to going to podcasts, how do you market yourself online to tell people, hey, I'm here, come get my books. 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.080 I'm curious how do you position yourself in the marketplace? 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:25.840 We do a little bit of everything. 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.679 We have a Substack newsletter that goes out twice twice a month. 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.639 Uh, we try to write about content articles that are of interest to authors, right? 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.720 Our website is 1106design.com. 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:43.360 And if you go there, you can download my book for free in PDF format. 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.120 I we we have all kinds of samples, and my pricing is there. 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.600 Believe in 100% transparency. 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.200 We have tons of educational articles, podcasts. 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:58.960 I put up every podcast I do on the website so people can can go on those things too. 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:07.920 So, in terms of client acquisition, I I like to talk business as well because there's a lot of authors who are also, you know, they have their writing business. 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.960 In terms of client acquisition, where do you think your most clients come from? 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.400 Oh, definitely LinkedIn. 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:38.160 We do a lot of LinkedIn outreach, and that's that's because a lot of business people or career people are more likely to write a book than than it's it's easier to find customers on LinkedIn because many of them write books, whereas to go out to the general public and just try to find anyone who's thinking about writing a book is is nearly impossible from a marketing standpoint. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.319 So you actually convince them to write the book to tell them, hey, I think you have a book anyway, why don't you publish with us? 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.519 Or do you look for people who are already working on a book and convince them to publish with you? 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:50.400 Well, both. 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:59.440 We post a lot of articles on LinkedIn and other social media and we direct them to our newsletter and post samples and try to keep a conversation going. 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.039 It's difficult because you never know what anyone is gonna see. 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:03.759 Yeah. 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.440 So what publishing trends are you keeping an eye on? 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.559 Definitely AI, because that's nobody knows where that's going right now. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:20.400 Um I'm a little worried about it, as well as I I think the opportunity is great when there's no more barriers to information. 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:24.559 I think it's gonna be exciting to see what that does to the world. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:31.920 You know, but at the same time, you may have noticed I I've noticed that the the the scoundrels have discovered AI too. 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:44.559 And now what we used to be able to easily identify spam, and it's it's getting a little less easy now to to identify scoundrels when when they send a cold email to you. 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:46.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.920 I got a lot of those, like um uh and I they almost tricked me. 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.160 So I would get people who claim to be hosting a book club and they want to host your book uh book. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.599 They use real names of established book clubs. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:07.119 They tell me, hey, we want to promote your book, we want like our 100 members to buy your book, but you have to pay us a fee. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:13.599 So I it sounded shady, so I immediately googled it and I realized

it's an ongoing scam. 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:19.200 They come, they go after authors by telling them, come come on our book club. 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:39.039 But so in in terms of the future of publishing and AI, do you think we would ever reach a point where everything's gonna be manufactured by AI except maybe for the writing pro for the original idea of the book? 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.759 I hope not, because for even AI text is flat, right? 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.319 Just like an AI voice is flat. 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:54.000 I, you know, and of course there are people who are jumping on that in terms of it being, you know, the easy way to get content out. 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.240 But just think of the authors you love to read, right? 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.480 For me, it's Stephen King, Dean Koons. 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:07.599 You just cannot replicate how they put words together and the creative creative stories they come up with. 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:18.960 I I I sincerely hope we don't all wind up being attached to some emotionless, faceless machine that is not accountable to anyone. 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:33.200 So, in terms of your media consumption as a professional publisher, how do you what are your media sources to keep up with the publishing news and the latest trend? 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.000 What do you follow? 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:35.119 Who do you follow? 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.599 Podcasts, authors, substacks. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.759 I'm curious to see yours who do you how do you keep up with with what's happening? 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.119 I do Substack. 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.279 We also, oh, it just kind of flew out of my mind there. 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.960 I read LinkedIn a lot. 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.680 I'd like to know what other people are saying there. 00:20:52.160 --> 00:21:00.160 A good organization to to for any author to consider is Ally, the Alliance of Independent Authors. 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.680 They have Ally. 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.160 Okay. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.720 Ally, and it's self-publishingadvice.org. 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:20.799 They for decades now have maintained a watchdog list to warn self-publishers about the scammers in the industry, and they have tons and tons of educational content that every author should take advantage of. 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.319 They're a forum where you can ask questions. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.799 I participate on that as much as I can. 00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:16.779 What are the scammers? 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.339 How are they targeting self-published authors? 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:24.539 Mostly it's emotional pitches, from what I can see, you know, will make your book a bestseller. 00:22:24.859 --> 00:22:25.899 That's a complete lie. 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:28.299 It's just they're tricking Amazon's algorithm. 00:22:28.379 --> 00:22:30.379 It's you're not going to sell a lot of books. 00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:33.180 You're just going to lie about being a best selling author. 00:22:33.419 --> 00:22:35.099 I guess that appeals to some people. 00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:37.339 I don't know, but it's unethical, of course. 00:22:37.659 --> 00:22:41.500 How do they trick the algorithm by using ads and keywords? 00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:42.859 Or how how do they do that? 00:22:43.180 --> 00:22:45.339 They get they get people to buy the book. 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:47.980 They get a lot of people to buy the book within a 45 minute. 00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:54.619 Times period and Amazon's computer is not a thinking human. 00:22:54.940 --> 00:22:59.019 So it's it it's just oh this is this book is flying off the shelves. 00:22:59.099 --> 00:22:59.899 It's a bestseller. 00:23:00.220 --> 00:23:07.980 But it's all you know, so so then the author can take a screenshot of that and and claim to be a best selling author from from then on. 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:13.419 But it's it's it's they've destroyed the meaning of the word bestseller because now nobody believes it. 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:15.659 They just yeah, you know, that's true. 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:17.899 I I I I actually don't believe it anymore. 00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:18.299 Yeah. 00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:22.059 When I see because everyone is claiming to be a bestseller these days. 00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:28.220 They're not like what defines a bestseller in your eyes? 00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:32.700 I do have a client who's a who's a literary agent, the real thing. 00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:40.700 And and a bestseller is defined by by a a book that has sold more than 10,000 copies in the last week. 00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:42.299 That's a real bestseller. 00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:44.940 And do you use what list? 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.619 New York Times list, or do you use the Amazon list or the USA? 00:23:49.659 --> 00:23:53.099 Well, by according to Nielsen, which tracks bookstore sales. 00:23:53.419 --> 00:23:53.980 I see. 00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:54.539 Okay. 00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:55.659 Okay. 00:23:57.419 --> 00:24:05.980 So one thing I wanted to ask you is about the distribution part for ND publishers or self-published. 00:24:06.220 --> 00:24:10.859 So there's Ingram Spark, that's and I think draft to digital. 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:16.139 What do you use to distribute the books of your clients? 00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:19.899 We recommend they use KDP and Ingram Spark together. 00:24:20.139 --> 00:24:20.379 Okay. 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:35.980 Okay, using KDP to feed all the Amazon channels at a 40% wholesale discount, and then Ingram Spark to feed the expanded distribution channels, which is bookstore, physical bookstores, libraries, other distributors, and so forth. 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:40.779 And for that, you need to offer a 55% wholesale discount. 00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:46.700 So by using both platforms together, you get the widest distribution at the lowest cost. 00:24:47.019 -->

00:24:47.180 Okay. 00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:50.059 I want to I want to have a technical question about Ingram Spark. 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.539 So I put my books on Ingram Spark, and that that was it. 00:24:54.779 --> 00:25:07.180 And I know there's a second part to it, which is if you clients or you put their books on Ingram Spark, how do you guarantee that the books actually the bookstores actually order them from Ingram Spark? 00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:07.659 What is it? 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:16.059 It's all once your book is is uploaded to Ingram Spark or KDP and and distributed fully, it's all automatic. 00:25:16.139 --> 00:25:19.099 You can get reports every month about the sales. 00:25:19.339 --> 00:25:21.819 You will get reports every month about the sales. 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:27.659 Yeah, but how would the bookstores know about your book when it's on Ingram Spark? 00:25:27.899 --> 00:25:32.139 Oh, well the Ingram, neither KDP nor Ingram Spark publicize the book for you. 00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:34.220 That's always yeah, you have to do that. 00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:35.419 You have to market your book. 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:39.180 And that has always been the case, even for traditional publishers. 00:25:39.419 --> 00:25:43.500 It's the publisher's job, and as the indie author, you are the publisher. 00:25:43.659 --> 00:25:47.659 It's the publisher's job to drive people to the retailer to purchase the book. 00:25:47.899 --> 00:25:48.299 I see. 00:25:48.460 --> 00:25:54.700 But I think Ingram Scrub Scrub offers like ads where you can drive the book sales. 00:25:55.099 --> 00:26:08.940 But publish uh bookstores are not gonna buy from KDP because no, no, and that's another reason to use Ingram Spark and KDP together because bookstores will never purchase from Amazon. 00:26:10.139 --> 00:26:18.379 Individuals will buy from Amazon and bookstores will order from Ingram Spark. 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:27.419 So your job as an indie author is to go actually to the bookstore and tell them, hey, my book is here, order it, or something like this. 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:36.139 Well, see that that's another thing that the stuff the the the uh scammers uh tell authors, which isn't quite correct. 00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:42.539 They'll say, We'll distribute your book to bookstores nationwide, these these hybrid publishing companies. 00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:56.539 Well, what that means is they're gonna put it up on their Ingram Spark account, and they will get the sales reports and they will get the revenue, and and hopefully you'll get paid, but there's no guarantee of that because you're not seeing any of the reports. 00:26:57.339 --> 00:26:57.819 Right? 00:26:57.980 --> 00:27:03.819 But uh bookstores may or it's it's really difficult to get on a bookstore shelf. 00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:12.619 You may you may be able to do that with a local bookstore and they'll see whether your book moves or not, but but you're probably not going to be on the shelf. 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:16.460 You will be in the Ingram database where it can be ordered. 00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:23.419 What are the top marketing tips you would give to a self-published author? 00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:30.139 Marketing tips, the biggest, the best marketing tip I can give anybody is to prepare an excellent book in the first place. 00:27:30.460 --> 00:27:31.180 Okay, right. 00:27:31.659 --> 00:27:43.579 Because people will recognize that it's a quality book and tell others about it if it's well edited, if it's well designed, if the cover is well designed, your cover has to look like it was traditionally published. 00:27:43.819 --> 00:27:44.139 Right. 00:27:44.379 --> 00:27:53.659 It's it's a it's a it's the first impression, it's the statement that tells people that you you have you are a serious author, right? 00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:55.419 So don't skimp on the cover. 00:27:55.500 --> 00:28:08.299 And even the interior pages have to be typeset well because you don't want to, if if the reader stumbles over poorly typeset text, they might blame you, the author, and say, I didn't like that book. 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:13.740 But it might not be that it might not be what you were writing, it might be that it wasn't properly typeset. 00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:16.539 So so so prepare a quality product. 00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:18.859 Yes, it's a yes, it's a risk. 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:25.819 Nobody knows whether the book is going to sell, but the answer to that risk is not to put out an amateur-ish product. 00:28:26.299 --> 00:28:28.220 And that's where people go wrong. 00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:33.259 What what other tips would you offer them in terms of marketing? 00:28:33.659 --> 00:28:40.700 Well, find well, you should actually know where your audience hangs out and who you're writing for before you even begin. 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.419 And then after that, you there's research available. 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:45.579 It's one of the products on our website. 00:28:45.740 --> 00:29:00.220 There's research available to find out where your target audience hangs out online, and then you can start to to to focus your marketing efforts where your target audience is rather than just shotgunning it to everyone. 00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:09.259 I've been hearing a lot about Facebook groups, especially like genre Facebook groups, genre focused uh Facebook groups. 00:29:09.419 --> 00:29:13.740 How how do you feel about authors hanging in these like Facebook groups? 00:29:13.819 --> 00:29:18.059 And are somebody said, Oh, they're just authors promoting each other's books. 00:29:18.379 --> 00:29:21.180 So yeah, that it it is. 00:29:23.500 --> 00:29:25.579 How do you feel about these Facebook groups? 00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:29.819 You want to find the groups where the audience is, not where other authors are. 00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:35.579 Sometimes But authors are big readers, so they buy books. 00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:37.099 I I didn't hear that.

00:29:37.180 --> 00:29:37.819 That broke up. 00:29:38.139 --> 00:29:42.700 I'm saying, but authors are also big readers, so the authors also buy books. 00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:50.940 Yeah, but you really you yeah, but you really want to try to find your your public audience where lots of people hang out to discover new books. 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.379 Can you give me an example? 00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:56.379 Let's say I write about like I write women fiction, right? 00:29:56.539 --> 00:29:58.299 Where do you think I can find my audience? 00:29:58.539 --> 00:30:00.619 I I I'm not the not a marketer. 00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.139 I hire that service out to my clients who want it. 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:12.619 So I couldn't begin to tell you, but they know how to dig and find the the face group, the Facebook groups and the reviewers and so forth to find that audience. 00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:20.460 Well, Michelle, it's it's been wonderful chatting with with someone with your experience and learning all the tricks of the trade. 00:30:20.539 --> 00:30:22.700 And uh how can audience reach you? 00:30:22.859 --> 00:30:29.259 How can, you know, if you can just tell us your website, your social media, how can how can they reach you? 00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:32.940 Okay, yeah, our website is 1106design.com. 00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:38.379 You can tell us about your book, fill out our contact form, and we'll respond with a friendly conversation. 00:30:38.619 --> 00:30:43.180 We don't engage in high pressure tactics like some of the other companies in the space do. 00:30:43.419 --> 00:30:47.740 We want it to be a good fit for both of us, so we'll see if we could work together. 00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:53.019 I'm at on all the social media under the handle at 1106design. 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:54.619 So you can find us there. 00:30:54.700 --> 00:30:58.379 You can find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, the whole thing. 00:30:58.619 --> 00:30:58.940 Great. 00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:02.779 And our and our Substack newsletter is is Published Like the Pros. 00:31:03.419 --> 00:31:05.339 Sorry, I I I lost you here. 00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:06.859 What's the name of your Substack? 00:31:07.099 --> 00:31:09.099 Substack is Published Like the Pros. 00:31:09.339 --> 00:31:11.099 Uh Publish, okay, I'll follow you. 00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:12.859 I'm pretty active on Substack. 00:31:13.099 --> 00:31:13.980 All right, great. 00:31:14.059 --> 00:31:16.859 So thank you very much for your time, uh Michelle. 00:31:17.019 --> 00:31:25.339 And thank you for anyone who's listening or watching for another episode of Read and Write with Natasha and until we meet again. 00:31:25.579 --> 00:31:26.379 Thank you. 00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:33.500 Thank you for tuning in to Read and Write with Natasha. 00:31:33.659 --> 00:31:35.740 I'm your host, Natasha Tines. 00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:43.579 If today's episode inspired you in any way, please take the time to review the podcast. 00:31:43.819 --> 00:31:49.180 Remember to subscribe and share this podcast with fellow book lovers. 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:51.180 Until next time.

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