התמלול המלא של Exploring Identity, Privilege, and the Power of Voice: A Candid Conversation

man that I adore, because you will talk about the hard things, especially with feminism Talking about, you know, gender issues, racial issues, like, we talk about politics and we don't always agree on our politics, but we talk about it, right, and I find it fascinating and we're really good about really listening to each other's perspectives. So I want to back up and get back into that conversation, because you said something that blew my mind and it was that moment when I said grab some mics, this is an important conversation. So I was talking about the inherent privilege I have as a white woman. We were in Los Angeles for an event and I needed to go to the bathroom And you know there's a lot of areas in Los Angeles that are a little on the rough side.  Speaker 1: A little, shady A little shady And we were near a Taco Bell.  Speaker 2: And it was late.  Speaker 1: It was late, It was dark, It was late, Yep, And I needed to go to the bathroom. And there was no doubt in my mind that if I just walked into that Taco Bell, they would give me the bathroom code and I could go to the bathroom and leave with no problem. That's my life experience. I've never been judged right As somebody that may not be safe to allow in their establishment to use the restroom. The privilege of walking around the world knowing that I have access to spaces is not lost on me, And I remember being struck by how easy it was for me to walk in there and say, hey, can I have the bathroom code? And they just gave it to me without question and I went to the bathroom and as I was walking out, I said thank you and I left And there was no no, this is only for customers or anything. No pushback whatsoever, And it didn't get lost on me. But that was absolute privilege that I had late at night in Los Angeles right.  Speaker 1: And you responded with something powerful. And I would love for you to say it in your own words, but before you say it, david, you are mixed race.  Speaker 2: You're very mixed yeah.  Speaker 1: Your father is Mexican.  Speaker 2: Mexican, Indian, German, French, all the things above, but our look definitely has been dominated by the darker skinned side of our genetics.  Speaker 1: And your mother.  Speaker 2: My mother looks very similar to you, only she has green eyes. She's Irish, scots, german, so she's very white. Yeah, so I had said when that came up because you were talking about how, when people see you, you get a response that allows you places that may be difficult for other people, or let you into places, lets you I don't know out of tickets, whatever it may be, i don't know.  Speaker 1: Well, i have yet to get out of a parking or a traffic ticket, darn it. But yeah, it lets me into places. for sure, i have access to places, without question, that many people don't.  Speaker 2: Where me. Because of my skin tone I look Hispanic, without question. When people see me they think I'm Hispanic a lot of people have thought of. Depending on where I am, i kind of

blend in with that crowd so I've even been mistaken for Filipino, but definitely the darker skinned side of the people. So I've actually used because I was born and raised in California. My speech is very American.  Speaker 2: I have no sort of ethnic tones in my voice at all, and so I've used that. I know that I've consciously thought while I'm speaking to somebody, if I'm trying to do something that like use the restroom in a space where it's closed already, i'll try to get to a point where I can actually let them hear me speak, because I don't come across as Latino or something like that in my speech. So I try and use that to get me into things. So I have the same responses you do when people see you. When people hear me, i tend to get a similar response, but it takes them being able to hear me for me to get that response.  Speaker 1: The exact words you said to me were if they could just hear my voice.  Speaker 2: Right, then maybe everything will be okay.  Speaker 1: If they could just hear my voice. And that was the moment I went. David, grab the mics. This is an important conversation, because here's the thing that is a privilege as well, isn't it? to have the type of voice where we can say, if they could just hear my voice and they could see past my skin color, they could see, i would get access. But how many people out there, the sound of their voice closes doors for them.  Speaker 2: Yeah.  Speaker 1: Because of the accent Has the opposite effect for sure. Yeah, it's just such a fascinating conversation And what we're having today is just a conversation. I don't think you and I have any answers.  Speaker 2: No, definitely not.  Speaker 1: But it's just, it's a conversation I wanna continually have with lots of different people of you. Know what is your experience and what is it about you that you feel either hinders you or helps you? I know for me, for a long time the fact that I was a woman hindered me. I went through a massive tomboy phase where I hated pink. I hated anything that was girl. I just wanted to do boy stuff because the religion I was raised in subjugated women so much. We were subservient. We weren't allowed to pray out loud, we weren't allowed to have a say, and I felt so unseen and I felt like, well, if I'm a boy then I've got a place in this world, but as a woman I don't.  Speaker 1: And so that for me, has been my challenge finding my true, authentic voice. What is it and how do I show up in this world. But I do realize that I have a certain amount of privilege. I am an educated white woman. Now, i had to fight for my education because when I grew up in the religion I grew up in, i was allowed to get educated, but I fought for my education. I got my education. I am a white woman living in a clean, beautiful, middle-class neighborhood in Southern California Like it just doesn't get much more privileged than that.  Speaker 2: Right, right.  Speaker 1: What is it like for you being where we live here in Southern California with brown skin?  Speaker 2: I don't think that I feel much different than you really.  Speaker 1: Okay.  Speaker 2: Because of the color of my parents one white, one brown and where I was raised, the friends that I had. I was always in an area. We moved quite a bit when I was younger, and we always ended up in places because we were primarily in Orange County. The places we ended up, though, were very, very mixed, so I had friends that were black. I had friends that were Hispanic. I had friends that were white I had probably the majority, because in the 70s and 80s, it was primarily white people in this area, so I think the majority of my friends were white, but none of them. You know, when you're kids, it's almost like you're blind to skin color because you haven't learned to hate yet, right? So, most of my friends. It never even came up that one of us was Mexican, the other one was black or whatever it was. It just wasn't a thing, and for some reason that carried over into my adult life. So I don't really feel out of place. I feel more out of place in Mexican neighborhoods than I do in white neighborhoods.  Speaker 1: Why is that?  Speaker 2: Because I didn't get raised in a Mexican home. My grandparents spoke Spanish like it was definitely a part of our life. I can go and feel comfortable in Alvarez street with everybody talking Spanish, because I understand quite a bit, but I don't speak it, so I don't have the tongue for it right. I never developed it, and so for me this isn't I don't feel out of place, but there's definitely times where I feel a little. Well. I guess you could say I do feel a little out of place every once in a while It's almost more jealousy, though than feeling out of place.  Speaker 1: Tell me about that.  Speaker 2: Well, it's like if you're, I don't know, at a grocery store or something like that, and you'll see somebody who's obviously well off and typically in these areas it's white people and very clean, taller gentleman or whatever and you definitely see, there's always been a bit of jealousy, i guess you could say, of the tall white man that just has things come easily for them because of their upbringing, because of their family. Like my dad was blue collar worker, built cabinets, remodeled kitchens and bathrooms. It wasn't. He didn't work in an office, he wasn't an attorney, he wasn't a doctor, like a lot of my friends' parents were, and I can recall going to their homes and feeling like it was definitely jealous of the lifestyle that they had, because of the toys they had and the things that they had in their home and whatnot, not like we had a totally poor life, but it wasn't to that level.  Speaker 2: And I think I still get those feelings as an adult when I see people driving a certain car or just having a certain look about them because of the clothes they're wearing, the way that their hair is cut, whatever it is, there's something about certain people that, in this area for sure, that make me

feel like like I haven't made it.  Speaker 1: Do you? feel a little bit of other quote unquote other How do you mean by that Kind of an?  Speaker 1: outsider, kind of a well, i'm an other. This is, they've got the inside track. They know how to act and speak and who to talk to. I mean, we've talked about this a lot as far as the way you were raised, the way I was raised so isolated, it was like I don't know who to talk to. Like how do you even network? Who do you talk to? And same for you. If you talk a lot about, wow, people don't realize just the connections they grow up with, how it makes their life different.  Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd probably say I do feel a little bit that way, and that's kind of similar to a conversation we were having recently about connection and the connections that I've dropped over the years from people that probably could have helped to put me in that situation or at least guide me into it to make sure that I was ending up doing the things that I was supposed to be doing. And by letting those connections drop I sort of almost gave up on that lifestyle in a way. Does that make sense?  Speaker 1: Yeah.  Speaker 2: I don't know. And now, looking at it, it's definitely you feel like you're trying to climb a ladder that's covered in grease where you just, no matter how much you try and pull, you're just gonna keep slipping and falling back down to the bottom. and you get up a little bit and then something knocks you back down.  Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel like we could have a whole nother conversation about the psychology of letting those relationships go.  Speaker 1: We'd be feeling like you don't deserve those relationships or not having ever been taught how to foster those and keep them alive and allow it to be a mutually beneficial type of relationship. I wanna get back to your voice. This is something. We've been together a little over three years. I love and adore you, every part of you. You're an amazing partner And I've noticed on multiple occasions that it feels like your Mexican side of you, that Mexican side of your heritage almost well, you almost whitewash it And I feel like it's such a beautiful part of you. Like who your father is is. He's such an incredible person in such a quiet, powerful way, right Like he's not anybody who ever accomplished world-changing things And yet, in his own little quiet, master, craftsman, cabinet builder way, the impact he's had on the world, the impact he's had on you, is so powerful And there's so much Louis in you.  Speaker 1: I hope so And yet it makes me a little sad when I hear you kind of whitewash who you are like, whitewash the Mexican out of yourself.  Speaker 2: Right, And that's probably because I've always wanted the best for my family And in the world that we grew up in. The white is where like success was.  Speaker 1: Yeah.  Speaker 2: Whenever it was, you know you were in Mexican neighborhoods or we'd go and see because we did have. You know, family that lived in those areas were. Obviously, you know we have heritage coming from Mexico. So when we traveled to the US a lot of the family ended up in those neighborhoods And when you go to those spaces you feel it's different. There's a different. The cars are different, the smells are different, the houses look different, Like it's just a different style of living, which for them is home. But for some reason, because I've seen both sides, perhaps success isn't the Mexican side, which is pretty sad because there's a lot of stuff, a lot of heritage, a lot of history that came from that. That I know, like there's places in Mexico that are just as beautiful as white areas here in the US.  Speaker 2: But because I haven't seen it, the areas of the Mexican side of my heritage where they live. it's not where I wanna live, It's not where I see success, probably because of growing up here and the stuff that I saw. So that's probably a big part of it. If I associate with that, then I'm not gonna be successful, which really kind of is sad.  Speaker 1: It is because it's such a beautiful culture and I love hearing your stories of your grandmother, and she was so that Mexican culture was so strong in her. You're great. Was it your great grandfather that lived on the Indian reservation and his ability to heal the stories you tell about that of just his natural healing, just by touching.  Speaker 2: That was my grandfather actually. Oh, that was your grandfather.  Speaker 1: Okay, like these stories are so not white And their stories I crave and I love hearing. And there is a part of me that is so very sad when I feel like people like you and I'm not just saying you, but people like you feel that those stories, those cultural stories, need to be whitewashed, to be accepted into this society. I feel that sad, i feel like that is a downfall of our society.  Speaker 2: It could be because I never fully saw myself as Mexican, because my friends and family that are in that do live that lifestyle and do the festivals and the dancing and play the instruments and all that kind of stuff. They grew up in a household where that was what they did, So to them it's almost like I'm an outsider in that culture as well, so I'm a little torn.  Speaker 1: You're kind of an outsider, wherever you go.  Speaker 2: Because people, when I go into those areas, they start talking Spanish to me and I can't speak back to them in Spanish, so automatically their view of me changes. And when I'm in white neighborhoods, people see me as a darker skinned person And so automatically their view of me changes. So I think it's probably a bit of just me not really feeling like I belong in either place. Really Does that make sense?  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get very. There's another thing that I noticed that happens with a lot of my friends and in our neighborhood that I have very mixed feelings about and I've stayed very quiet about it. Well, I haven't. There's been a couple of times I brought it up to you. But

you're very handy.  Speaker 1: You grew up with a father who is a master craftsman. You can fix anything, build anything. You can fix cars, You can create beautiful custom cabinetry. As far as blue color work goes, you're very handy. Also, you are absolutely brilliant and highly intelligent and very gifted in technical things Your understanding of the audio world, of the visual world, of you can teach yourself how to use a new software in a short amount of time and basically master it. The incredible skills that you have that are so technical, the kind of conversations you have when you're in rooms with people that have gone to school their whole life for these technical things. You can hold a conversation with them, And so you also have both of these worlds the blue color and the white color. And yet when we hang out, with people they almost ask you to be their handyman.  Speaker 1: Hey, david, can you come fix this? Hey, david, i have the key. Hey, david, can you check this out? Hey, when David comes over, can you have him look at this? Hey, i'm having a party. Do you think David would pour the drinks? and all of that. And it really.  Speaker 1: There've been a couple of times I've said no and we haven't gone to a party because it really bothered me And I think it's a great opportunity because it really bothered me that they saw you as the helper rather than the valued guest And we just didn't go to that party. And I don't know if I told you we didn't go to that party because of that, but it upsets me that that and I don't wanna say this wrong, because it's not that I think somebody whose job is blue collar is less valued. My father is a plumber The world would not like we don't have. We need people that do plumbing and build things. We need handy people. We that part of you I love and am in awe of that. You can create such beautiful things out of wood or you can tear a car engine apart and rebuild it. I love both of these parts of you And I think what really bothers me is when people only see one side of you and when I think they're seeing that side because of the color of your skin.  Speaker 2: It makes sense like, um, it's something I probably haven't really thought of. I think I'm just used to. It's kind of. Sometimes I feel kind of like a truck where if you have a truck, everybody calls you whenever they need to move something. You wanna do it or not, or whether it's a nice truck or a crappy you know Sanford and Sun truck. The fact that you have a truck means you're gonna get phone calls from people when they're moving, when they need to pick something up from Home Depot, whatever it is that they're doing.  Speaker 2: You're the person with the truck, and so I look at a lot of when we get those types of calls. When I get, you know, people ask me hey, can you help me fix this, can you help me fix that? I'm almost like the truck right Where, because people know that I know how to do all of the stuff. That's when they start. You know oh my gosh, i'm having this problem. Let me call David and see if he can help with it.  Speaker 2: And I think that there's been times where you've felt, even my friends they'll reach out when they have a problem And other than that I won't hear from them. You know certain people And it's when they have the problem. That's when they reach out to David because David can fix anything when it comes to that stuff. I don't necessarily mind, because that's like when I was in the pipe band, our drum major was a physician and he'd walk around with this gigantic gallon bag of pills that looked like a fishbowl from a party in the 60s where it was filled with all these different you know drugs and depending he'd ask you what you're feeling, how are you feeling? Okay, and he'd go into his little bag and he'd dig around and pull out three or four of you know certain color pill. And here you go, this is what you take and come back and talk to me again tomorrow.  Speaker 1: So you had a drug dealer on your pipe band? Yeah, in our pipe band, yeah.  Speaker 2: So you know, they were just samples and he'd open the samples and throw them all in this big bag And here we go, we've got the mix, just in case anything happens to anybody while we're out, you know, traveling around. He didn't mind doing it because he had the knowledge and he had the ability to help people. And I think I kind of feel the same way. When people come to me and they ask me a question or they need me to help with something, they're acknowledging that I'm better at something than they are and they need some help, Right so if I have those skills and somebody needs some help.  Speaker 2: To me, it's almost a privilege to be able to help somebody. It's something that I've learned throughout my life that I can share with somebody. Why wouldn't I wanna do it? Now, asking me to pour drinks at a party? maybe they think I make good drinks.  Speaker 1: And so you know what?  Speaker 2: David makes better drinks than I do. Maybe he'll be willing to make some at our party. I don't know which was a little odd, but I don't know. That could be it. But yeah, that's how I look at it. I look at it as almost a privilege to be able to help my friends whenever I can, because there's not many chances to do that. And when it comes up. Yeah, of course I'm gonna help.  Speaker 2: Now I have seen people start to take advantage of it and there is a place where it becomes too much, and okay, you need to either pay me or hire somebody.  Speaker 1: One of the two.  Speaker 2: That's kind of something that bothers me about certain people when they ask friends to do things. It's like if your friend owned a restaurant and your other friends find out that one buddy you know owns a restaurant. Well, hey, can he get us free drinks or free food? Well, probably, but he's my friend, why wouldn't I support him? So if we're going there, we're gonna pay him. We're gonna pay well and we're gonna tip better than anybody else in that

restaurant. Because he's my buddy. I'm not gonna go there and expect something for free.  Speaker 2: And so when people ask me to do something and then just say thanks and give me a high five, depending on the size of the job, or like I've been asked to do a bathroom remodel, and you know, hey, i'm trying to do this. I can't afford, you know, i'd rather, you know, not have to pay so much. Well, if I don't do it, you're gonna pay somebody three times what you're talking about paying me. Why wouldn't you give me that money? Because I'm your friend, Don't you wanna see me have a successful life? Why should I sacrifice my life for you to have something fancy? Does that make sense?  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's where it bothers me is because they I see it as a well, it's a white privilege lens on the world Which I've seen my entire life from my dad because my dad always underbid his work.  Speaker 2: He didn't value his work as high as it should have been And he had people there were definitely certain people that he worked for that saw that he underbid And when he was done they'd give him a bonus of $1,000, $5,000, whatever it was. Because they said here, you deserve this, you didn't charge enough. And other people give him a handshake thanks, see you later.  Speaker 1: Dang, i got a good deal on this one, right, yeah, so it definitely varies by person. And here's the thing Mexican labor, brown skin labor is not as valued, Right, It's not. We see it in the tech industry.  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. We see it as oh, go hire out overseas, you can pay them $5 an hour, versus somebody here where you would just pay $20 an hour. And so, because of their skin color, where they live, the work is less valued And oftentimes people are asking them to do pretty tough things, pretty technical things. But oh, they have a different skin color and they'll accept lower payment. So let's pay them lower, Right? And that's been hard as a business owner for us because, yeah, I mean, funds are low but we don't wanna undervalue that people, People still deserve to get paid.  Speaker 2: They deserve to get paid.  Speaker 1: So that's been our big. That's kind of a hill we're dying on, where we might be growing a little slower than we possibly could have.  Speaker 1: But it's because people that we hire, we're paying them very fair wages for the work that they do, because we just don't wanna undervalue people just because of the color of their skin or where they live or what have you. So, as we wrap this up, what inspired this was your saying if they could just hear my voice And this podcast and the things I talk about. My mission is raise your volume and encouraging people that feel have felt their whole life like their voice doesn't have value. They don't know that their voice can move mountains. Right, they haven't been raised believing that. My mission is to get people to believe that, and so the question I'd like to give you is when you say, if they could just hear my voice, what does that mean? What do you really want people to know about you? What is the power of your voice?  Speaker 2: It would depend on the situation. I think it's that I'd want people to know that I'm intelligent and not a threat, like in that kind of situation, right? Because I think a lot of times lack of education helps people to decide whether or not they can trust you or not, right? And so if I'm well-spoken and I come across as somebody who's not on drugs or not, you know, living on the street for whatever reason, then maybe they'll feel a little bit safer around me, like there's definitely in my mind from the places that I've been in. There's definitely judgment on how you sound.  Speaker 2: You know, if you're, i can recall times at 7-Eleven late at night in Hollywood when I was young and somebody would come up hey, you know, i could use some money or whatever, and, depending on how they sounded, determined how you felt safety-wise. And so, with again back to the power of the voice, you can calm people, you can make people feel nervous, you can scare people, you can make people, you know you can do a lot of things with the tone of your voice. And so I think, by going back to that statement, if they could just hear me, then maybe they'll trust that I'm okay, that I'm not a threat.  Speaker 1: I feel like we could do a whole another episode unpacking that. what I heard you say is you just want people to feel safe around you, so it has less to do with you and more to do with people's perception of their safety around you.  Speaker 2: Yeah.  Speaker 1: Oh, and that, David, that is white privilege right there. Never once have I wondered if my voice makes people feel physically safe. Never once have I thought well, my voice might make them feel unsafe. Never once. If I need help, it's late at night, my car has broken down and I have to run into a 7-Eleven. I need help. My car broke down. Can anybody help me? I will get helped.  Speaker 2: Right, i can recall times getting pulled over and actually thinking I need to sound as white as possible, like just to you know. Hopefully this just is as simple as you know, as easy of a stop as it can be, never expecting to get out of a ticket because I never have, and I have friends that are white that have. You obviously aren't one of them, unfortunately.  Speaker 1: I definitely have friends.  Speaker 2: Everybody that I know that has gotten out of a ticket that has been pulled over and not received a ticket has been white, and so every time I get pulled over which has been a long time, thankfully, but the times that I have been pulled over I've tried to make myself sound as white as possible.  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.  Speaker 2: Without even thinking about it.  Speaker 1: All right, David, you have given me so much to think about. This is what I love about a relationship. I just I feel like we're constantly challenging each other to think about things a little bit differently. It's those

nuances.  Speaker 2: Yeah.  Speaker 1: Those things that It's easy to go through life knowing what you know and believing that's the truth.  Speaker 2: Yeah.  Speaker 1: But my truth isn't necessarily the truth, which is so funny, because the religion I was raised in was the truth capital T, capital T the truth. And I was raised with those absolutes, believing in the truth, and the way I was raised was the truth and not to question it, and that nobody else had the truth, mm-hmm. And so the unlearning I have had to do as an adult. I'm 30 years out of that religion and I am still unlearning that my truth isn't the truth.  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.  Speaker 1: Right. There's a lot to unpack there and there's a lot of learning. And something I really value about our relationship is you help me to see that my truth isn't the truth. We have very intelligent conversations about that and I appreciate it, although sometimes my truth is the truth.  Speaker 2: But More often than mine.  Speaker 1: So as we close this conversation out, I want to say thank you. I know it's the beginning of dozens more conversations that we're going to have about this topic.  Speaker 2: Yeah.  Speaker 1: And listeners. I want to thank you for being here as part of this conversation. We'd love to continue the conversation with you as well, so come on over to Instagram. Let me know what this brought up for you. I have a feeling that this is going to bring up lots of things for lots of people. They're going to have the feels Yeah, yeah, i would agree.  Speaker 2: And thank you for allowing me to be the first guest on your On the shift of your podcast.  Speaker 1: Right, it's so exciting.  Speaker 2: Yeah, i think it's great.  Speaker 1: I do too. Yeah, it's going to be a good one.  Speaker 1: We Literally last night, friends, last night I'm working with a coach on branding and bringing in branding and just making sure your message is clear, and I realized I use hashtag Raise Your Volume all over the place. The summit I did was Raise Your Volume. The foundation I want to start is the Raise Your Volume Academy. Like the Raise Your Volume, raise Your Voice message, your story is powerful is the core of the work I'm doing in this world. In everything that I'm doing, whether it's the Sonic Bloom Awards, whether it's our teaching people doing our teaching people how to podcast, or creating certification programs for companies or whatever it is that we're doing To me it's all about that authentically raise your volume, tell your story. Your voice is powerful. And yet my branding hasn't been consistent until last night. We're sitting on this couch And I'm like David, i need to change the name of this podcast. I need to change the name of the podcast. So third time's a charm.  Speaker 2: We'll see if this is the winner.  Speaker 1: It may not, Hey I am one of those people that embraces change. I am not afraid of it. I will shift and change and pivot and grow. I refuse to be Ross stuck in the stairwell, sweating, screaming, pivot with a couch that's too big Like I believe in making little pivots along the way before you're stuck and sweaty, so change doesn't scare me. But anyway, yes, welcome to the inaugural episode of the Raise Your Volume Academy podcast, because you're my revas, yeah. So in essence, i'm going to sign off with the same sign off I have been using for months, which is listeners, raise the volume of your voice, i'm listening.