התמלול המלא של Love Was Never Just About Romance, with Love Celebrant Lauren Snead

really pausing to reflect on the magnitude of what's happening. And especially when you get married, I mean, that's a really big freaking commitment. So Sebastian: I mean that's a really big thing. So I never got into stuff. We'll just face the girl something higher. Lauren Snead (they): I know that in some religious faiths, premarital counseling is required, but for couples who are not religious or may not have that kind of person in their life who would pause to ask them questions about marriage, I realize there's this giant gap where modern couples are h wanting to go deeper before they get married. They want to take time to reflect on what this milestone means for them and to just Reflect on their relationship in general and then use that as material to create a ceremony that actually feels like them and sounds like them and reflects their values and reflects their personalities. And I think my greatest reward is when I finish a ceremony and everybody there is laughing, crying, having all the feels, everybody's in a great mood, and people walk away going, Wow, that totally totally surpassed my expectations of what a ceremony could be. It it it was inspiring, it was engaging. I learned so much about the couple. I feel so much closer to them. And I feel like I'm a part of something special. Sebastian: Hmm. Yeah, I think about how growing up, whether growing up knowing you're queer or not, a lot of times I think of it it has been more of this transactional, you have the movies and you have all the the wedding magazines and you're like, this is what a wedding is. So it's like it's it's checking the boxes Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: instead of creating the box for yourself. Lauren Snead (they): I agree with that fully. And for queer and trans people, and I also use the expression beautifully non-traditional because I think there's a lot of people who just do not identify with mainstream culture at all. They Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): just don't feel like they fit in. so for queer, trans, and beautifully non-traditional folks, most of us, you know, A, never had a role model of seeing a healthy, happy, queer couple get married, you know, and B, Th this this is the first time that they've been asked to actually stand in front of friends and family and really show who they are in this really meaningful, vulnerable way, you know, to be fully themselves as they stand among their loved ones, marrying the person that they probably never thought they would ever get to marry. It's it's just it's such a big deal. It's such a big deal. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. so w what is is there a certain ceremony that you've done that really stands out to you? Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, yeah, there's there's so many. There's two that are coming to mind. and actually I'm gonna lead with Vicky and Sheila. I I write about them in my book, and I am probably gonna cry when I talk about this, but they're in their sixties and seventies and they're our queer elders. They're women of color, and they decided that they were after fifty years going to get married. So we we met up in San Francisco, overlooking Sutra Heights. We were overlooking the beach in San Francisco up in Sutra Heights. And No knowing that there is no way for me to know how meaningful this moment was for them. The generation they grew up in, the experience of being people of color, of being queer people of color, I can't personally relate to to those elements of their dynamic, but what I could have reverence for and deep, deep respect for was that this is something that they had maybe never imagined for themselves, that they would ever. Have the chance to get married, or that they could get married. They could technically maybe have a ceremony, but to be legally married is a different, whole different ballgame that wasn't even in the picture until not very long ago. So there's so many different types of weddings I've done. Giant big blowout, multi-million dollar weddings, intimate little elopements on top of mountains, cultures coming together from around the world, but this ceremony with Vicki and Sheila, it was simple, it was sweet, it was heart centered, it was in San Francisco and it is one of the ceremonies that will stay with me forever because it meant everything. Sebastian: I can only imagine. What was the you mentioned a second one. What was the other one too? I feel like we could just listen to all these amazing stories. Lauren Snead (they): The second one? Okay. Nadav. Yeah. So Nadav and Vidya, I also write about them in my book. Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): So they had grown up in different cultures. They, you know, Nadav grew up in Israel, and Vidya grew up in India. And they met and fell in love in San Francisco. And they decided to have a big international wedding in San Francisco. And for these two men to have found each other on this planet having grown up in such different cultures and such different parts of the world, to have found each other, to have fallen in love, and then to have designed a celebration to bring their friends and family together, oof, that was a whole a whole other thing. it it's not just, hey, we're two people just checking off the box, like you said, it's time to get married and I've this is my high school sweetheart and we grew up in, wherever. This is people who grew up from different parts of the world coming together, bringing their friends and family together, and doing something that many of their friends and family had never seen before. And it was celebrating the love of two men. And that was just incredibly powerful for every reason. And what I really loved about that experience was that we wove in different components of each of their cultures to make it really, really unique. And by the end of the experience, people who might have been a little cautious of one another or might not have known how to interact with each other were laughing and dancing

and celebrating together and sharing a meal. And it was just it was just a celebration of life and love and culture and just the things that matter, you know, and everything else kind of melted away. Sebastian: And what I'm hearing with you describe each of these stories, and I imagine the dozens more you have, is it's I'm I'm curious how do you get to that point with a couple that you can get them to be that intimate, to be that vulnerable? Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: Cause it's it because it's it's with each other, of course, and maybe even with each other in new ways, because they're taking this step. but then Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people yeah. Yeah, I would say that's true. Sebastian: also with you. And then with the the people that they invite to be a part of the celebration. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: I'm from the Midwest and we are not as vulnerable. And so I'm just thinking, how how do you create that space for people to do Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. No, it's true. Yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: that? Lauren Snead (they): Well, so first of all, I'm not for everybody. You know, some people are totally fine just having Uncle Jack do it or, you know, Sebastian: Yeah. Yep. Lauren Snead (they): you know, a religious leader or maybe more comfortable with something transactional and they'll do private vows. And I fully support anybody in whatever path feels right for them. The people that find me, the first thing is we do a free forty five minute connection call where we get to know each other and just see if it's a good chemistry fit. And sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. And that's okay. but when we find that fit together, I'm really upfront about the process and what it's going to be like. And I have found that the guiding light for me is is to lead with love. It's just simply to lead with love, to listen, to pay attention, to create a feeling of safety and trust. for them to know that I genuinely care and that I'm with them in this journey, that they're not alone in it. So if feelings come up along the way, I offer some coaching along the journey. And I I think people just feel that. You know, they can just feel when they're cared for and feel when they're loved and feel when it's safe to open up a little bit more. And so we do that together. And one of the things that I'm very consistent on is I always have my couples read the ceremony ahead of time because I want to make sure they're comfortable. I I don't want to spring anything on them in front of their friends and family that they didn't want to share with their friends and family. So Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): I I get a lot of folks who say, you know, I'm I I'm an introvert, I'm nervous about being center of attention. There's certain things I might want to share with you, but might not want to share with the rest of my community. So we go through this in-depth discovery process where I really get to know them and ask them a lot

of questions. And then together we co-create a ceremony that feels right for them. And so they get to read it, they get comfortable. And by now we've built a circle of trust and we've built a relationship. And so by the time we get to the wedding day, I mean, we're we're besties, you know, I'm up there with them, loving them through this moment. And I think that that spirit of love and trust, it just it it just shines outward. And every one of the guests there feels like they now get to be a part of this. Circle of love. And that's the intention I set with every ceremony is to lead with love and to help everybody there feel the love. And I I have seen amazing things happen. Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): I have seen stoic, conservative Sebastian: Mm. Lauren Snead (they): dads cry. I have seen queer aunts who never thought they'd see the day reach for their partner's hand. I have seen grandmothers who have no idea what I'm talking about when I say I'm non-binary or queer, but who hug me anyway. And I I've just more than anything seen couples feel loved and celebrated for who they really are. And and that's transformative. That is transformative. Sebastian: It just make me think, yeah, the the energy behind all of that. When you exude that I I don't know how woo you are who how woo listeners are. I'm a I'm a little woo. And so I'm thinking of like I'm thinking of frequencies and like love is like one of the top frequencies. And so when you're when you're exuding that, others pick up on it and it's Lauren Snead (they): I'm a little world. I'm a little world. Uhhuh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Sebastian: it's hard not to get wrapped in it. Lauren Snead (they): You know, I always joke around, I have a golden retriever heart and I was born this way. My mom said that my very first word as a baby was hi and that I would just walk up to strangers and I'd or I'd be in my little stroller just waving to everybody I could possibly see and just saying hi to them. And I you know, it's I was born this way. It sounds so silly, but I really was. I was born this way. That's my frequency. And and I'm gonna say a little bit more about this real quick, which is look, Sebastian: Mm. I yeah. Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): I don't know what happens when I die. I don't know that for sure. So while I'm here, I wanna have the most positive, love-filled experience that I can. And it doesn't always mean that it's easy. It doesn't always mean that there's not pain, but look, let's Let's lift each other up. Let's love each other. Not from a from a a doctrine or you know, s a a system that excludes people, but from a genuine place of of caring and wanting the best for one another. So that like and I your podcast title, so we can all help each other thrive. That's what it's about. Sebastian: Yeah. Yeah. I 100% agree. one one thing I was curious about too is so I haven't been in the wedding industry, but I know others who have been in the wedding industry. And it for them sometimes it's difficult being the person that's against the norm in the industry, whether it's like a style of how they work. I'm thinking of photographers, specifically Lauren Snead (they): Yep. Yep. Sebastian: here, but also like identities and not w really Lauren Snead (they): yeah. Sebastian: with how the industry is. So how how has it been over the last twenty or so years navigating being a queer non binary person in this space? Lauren Snead (they): It's been mixed. so first of all, I want to shout out to every wedding pro I've ever worked with. So all the photographers and all of the planners I've worked with, they've been incredible people. so that's been awesome. And I've I've loved the wedding pros. And the types of couples that find me are also going to find other wedding professionals that are have similar values and may also be queer identified or or just approach things in a similar kind of way. So I I love I love the wedding professionals I've worked with. The wedding industry, it's been difficult to to navigate. It's it's interesting. I've had a lot of personal introspection lately about where I fit in this world. Because first of all, I don't believe that every couple has to be monogamous. I do not believe that marriage is the ultimate symbol of love. I do not believe that romantic partnership is more important than any other kind of partnership. And I love love and I want to celebrate love. So come to me with your unique relationship, your unique dynamic. And I'm happy to celebrate it for what it is. I I don't need it to fit into a box. And I think that that that approach has really helped me navigate this world. But I've definitely felt the friction and the tension. And the the biggest conflict I see is the amount of frickin' pressure couples feel. they feel so much pressure that Instagram is awesome and these photographers are awesome and it creates this visual impression of what a wedding should look like and what the party should be like. But a lot of times couples don't ask themselves, what do I want it to feel like? And how do Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): I want to feel on my wedding day? And that is the number one question I ask couples the very first day I meet them. How do you want to feel on your wedding day? And how can everything else grow from there? So a lot of the work I do on a deeper emotional level is helping people go from people pleasing, performing, feeling like they have to prove something, to instead feeling more like they are seen and loved and cherished for who they really are. And that's a there's a really big difference there. So I think the wedding the amount of pressure people feel in the wedding world, I I think that is one of the biggest issues I have with it. And also, Yeah, that it backs up this very heteronormative, monogamous view of what love is that I don't s personally subscribe to. So I vet all the people, all the couples I work with, it's gotta be a good Sebastian: Yep. I have a

couple of other bosses. Lauren Snead (they): match both ways. And and thankfully I'm finding couples and they're finding me who want something heartfelt and meaningful and want to go deeper. And my heart goes out to all the couples I don't work with who feel that overwhelming pressure. And just, just keep saying to themselves, I can't wait for this to be over. It's nuts. It's nuts. But I will say Gen Z is mixing things up. Yeah. yeah, go ahead. Okay, well Gen Z is mixing things up. First of all, they're saying, Man, I don't even know if I want to get married in the first place. F that Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): shit. they're out of they're they Sebastian: Well, millennials are doing the lavender marriages now, so Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, yeah. Wait, tell me more about that. Sebastian: that one where you you get married for the benefits. Lauren Snead (they): yeah, yep. Yep. Yep. That happens too. but yeah, Gen Z is like, I don't even know if I want to get married. And also I don't, you know, it's it's expensive. We're gonna do it our way. There you get a lot more adventure elopements, you're getting a lot more s really small, intimate ceremonies with small groups of people. the tides are shifting a little bit here. Sebastian: I think that makes sense, especially the the cost. That was the other thing I was gonna Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. yeah. Sebastian: I was thinking about as you were talking was how insane it cost to get married. Well, I mean yeah, you just have the basics of like all the paperwork, and then once once Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: you change your name, especially if you're a trans person and you change your name after you get married again, it's like, I gotta go do all that all over again, too. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: but there's the logistics and administrative costs, but then yeah, people There's the parents' expectations of I'm giving this much money to you sometimes. Of and so I have these expectations of what's gonna happen on the wedding or who you have to involve in the wedding. and it also Lauren Snead (they): Uh-huh. Sebastian: feeds into like we have the the stories that we were talking about earlier when you grow up and there's the prince term and the princess, whatever, they get married. but what I think we started to do in the beginning was, well, we just made it two princes or two princesses. But we still had all the other baggage with it. You didn't remove the rest of the baggage. Lauren Snead (they): Well and not only that, but gender is such a huge spectrum. You know, you can't just call it same sex marriage. 'Cause Sebastian: That too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): you know, give you folks that are non-binary. I mean, gosh, Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): there's a just such a huge spectr a spectrum of gender. It's, you know, for me, queer is just a a better term because it ex you know, captures so much more of what's possible. And one of the things that I'm seeing really pop up. is the difference between queer friendly and queer affirming. And the Sebastian: Mm, yeah. Lauren Snead (they): really simple way that I interpret that is queer friendly is like, I like gay people. My uncle's gay. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): I have no problem with gay people. you see a form that says bride and groom? Just cross out groom and write in bride. That's queer friendly. It's like, I have no problem with you. Of course you're welcomed here, but I'm not going to make any effort to really get to know you, to understand your pronouns, to, you know, make sure that you 100% feel comfortable and safe. And it's the difference between bridal party and wedding party. It's the difference between bride and groom or even bride and bride and groom and groom to partner A, partner B, you know? Like we're it's about how we greet people, how we what assumptions we make about people and couples as they enter our sphere. And I think the biggest opportunity is to really keep things open-ended and meet people where they're at. You know, first question, what are your pronouns? What are some words that feel good for you? If I'm celebrating you, do you like, you know, yes, queen, or do you like slay prince? Like what are words that feel good for you? And and let's go from there. And and I'm not only going to remember your pronouns, I'm going to make sure I use them correctly. If I mess up, I'll just simply correct myself and move forward. And all of my documents, all of my intake, all of all of the stuff that you're going to interact with when it comes to working with me, it's going to be queer affirming, not just queer friendly. So I think that's a really important distinction. And I'm seeing that pop up all over Instagram. And I I think there's a lot of really great work being done by wedding professionals who, who deeply care and want it to be way more affirming than it currently is. Sebastian: I feel like I've seen I've seen that floating around a little bit too, the distinction. And it can be hard for folks that haven't seen the difference, but then once you see it, you can't unsee it. Lauren Snead (they): I couldn't agree more. And my whole thing is it I I came out as nonbinary in my forties. And it's something that's been true of me my my whole life. I've always been non-binary. I just didn't have the language for it. And I didn't really understand what non-binary meant. And I didn't get it until I did. And once I understood that about myself and found that language, first of all, it was like a my whole body exhaled. It was such a relief to find language that described me. but I use they them pronouns, and I cannot tell you how often I've told a story about discovering that I'm nonbinary and sharing my pronouns and talking about that journey, only to have somebody respond with, you go girl. And I'm like, my God, are you kidding me? Like, did you not just hear the story I told you about my identity? and it's just, it's

programming. It's programming and and there is a part of me that gets angry, right? Where I'm like, come on, can we please do better than this? And then there's another part of me that just thinks, this is this is education. You know, this is education. So I it is a lot of emotional labor on my end for sure. But I try to be careful not to shame people. I find that a lot of people, if I correct them, they go, my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm just I'm I'm I'm in my 70s. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I'm I'll never get it. And I just say, hey, look, we're a team. You know, this is new for me too. Let's just try again. You know, if if you miss it, then maybe we can try again and and you don't have to apologize. Just say, let me try again. And so we're working on that. But what's really helpful is if I'm in a group environment and I'm non-binary and my pronouns are they them and you actively hear somebody misgender me or we're out at dinner and the server comes up and goes, hey ladies, it would be really nice if you jumped in, you know, if you jumped in and said, actually we're not all ladies here. Because it for the person that is non-binary, it's a lot of work to have to come out over and over and over again and to and to feel like I'm constantly educating people. So you know, PSA for everybody listening, if you have somebody in your world who's non binary or doesn't use traditional pronouns, please speak up for them. Speak up for them in a Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): loving way. You don't have to be angry about it, but just be have their backs. Be on their team. Sebastian: Yeah, yeah. I remember when I was early my transition, that was the most frustrating thing is correcting people on pronouns. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: today I like I'm cis assumed male whenever I'm out. And so pronouns aren't an issue typically. But I remember, yeah, early transition. Yeah, like you said, the emotional labor that goes into it. And so for folks that are yeah, usually non-binary, not using he, him or she, her pronouns. it's it's a constant. And so having people in your corner that can speak up and other people in the queer community. Cause I think sometimes even people when you're in the community they get complacent for Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: the trans other trans folks in the community. And so it's like Lauren Snead (they): Sure. Sure. Sebastian: even within the community, it's still something to Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: stay on top of. So Lauren Snead (they): Absolutely. And I'm speaking about my lived experience as a non-binary person. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): And I absolutely include trans people in this. And I Sebastian, I did not know you were trans. What is that? Now now I'm gonna, Sebastian: yeah. Not everyone does. Lauren Snead (they): if it's okay with you, can I ask you a question? Do you prefer that people know that you're trans? Is that an important identity for Sebastian: Mm. Lauren Snead (they): you? Or are you are you cool with maybe you know, maybe you don't? Sebastian: I do not go about my life trying to be stealth. these days it's not as front and center for me, but I don't hide it unless I was like in an actual situation, like maybe road tripping across the south or something, then I would be like intentionally stealth. but like, no, if someone goes to like my social media profiles, if you Google anything about me, trans is one of the Probably first things because I was in the military. I was openly trans in the military. so there'll be articles and stories that pop up. So I don't like to hide it, but it can be more difficult. I feel like if I'm in a space and people assume like I'm a cis straight dude, I don't like being assumed that. And it's not because there's anything Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: wrong with cis straight men or cis gay men. It's just that's not who I am, and so I don't feel like I'm seen fully, but also. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: I don't feel the need to always be as visibly queer or trans, if that makes Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: sense. Lauren Snead (they): I really get that. What is that? that's something that I'm I'm thinking about a lot as a non-binary person, just about visibility. You know, not everybody is gonna know that I'm non-binary when they first meet me. And it, you know, I could tattoo my head forehead to just say like I'm non-binary, my my pronouns are they them, but otherwise I'm I'm gonna have to say it, you know, over Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): and over and over again. And it's just a constant coming out. and in some settings it doesn't feel safe to to come out. And but thankfully that's not as many, I'm not often in those types of settings. But it's important for me that other people know who I am. And it's important to be seen. And and first and foremost by myself, you know, I have to really see and honor who I am, which has been the big journey over the last couple of years. And it's nice when it's reflected back to me and the people I'm around. Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): It's just it's a it's a tender it's a tender dynamic to navigate. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. I I like how you put that. It you want to see it reflected back to you in the people that you're around. So yeah, it's not just about, hey, this is me, this is who I am, and let me make sure you know about it. Just you want people to just know all the pieces of you. Just like you want Lauren Snead (they): Sure. Sebastian: to know the all the pieces of somebody else, and that just forms more connection. I think that's Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: that's that's really what it is. And I yeah, I I think in my journey too. especially in the last few years as I've been growing my my business, it's I'm in spaces that aren't as queer, but I'm usually like other entrepreneur spaces. And so I Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian:

have all these other connections with folks. And Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: there it's a really still affirming space. But it's not like when I was in my early twenties where I felt like I needed to be around a ton of queer people to feel that love. And like I thankfully Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: I think society is has gotten better in that. But I've also gotten more comfortable in myself. Lauren Snead (they): Exactly. Right. And it's such a journey. It's such a journey to go through. Sebastian: yeah. Lauren Snead (they): 'cause what can we expect of other people? And at the same time If I'm in an environment with like a group coaching program or an environment where I'm with a community of people that I've been with many times and I've come out over and over and they consistently call me lady or they consistently call me girl, I really hate that. You know, Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): and I'm I'm finally speaking up and saying, Hey, could you help me? You know, could you to the leaders or to other people in the program, can you Can you help hold the space for me in this container? Because I'm really not feeling seen. And and I know it's not your intention, but Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): sometimes intention and impact are very different things. Sebastian: Yes. Lauren Snead (they): And it makes me feel like I'm just not visible at all. So there's that kind of scenario. And then there's just being out in the world. You know, one of my biggest pet peeves is sitting down at a restaurant and having a server come up and just say, Hey ladies, it just drives me bananas. I, if I could wave my magic wand. If you're a server listening to this, just use gender inclusive language. Sebastian: Ha ha ha. Lauren Snead (they): Come on, just say hey, everybody. Hey, friends. You know, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Sebastian: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): Just program that into your brain right now. If you're a server listening to this, or if you're in a service industry, service industry, or Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): if you're in hospitality. And yes, if you're in weddings, use gender inclusive language. You don't know who's in that space with you. Sebastian: Mm. One hundred percent. You don't know who's in the space with you, and I like how you pointed out the intention versus impact with it. 'Cause Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: that's doesn't matter what your intention is, you can still cause cause harm, no matter how severe. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Agreed. Sebastian: So this this ties well actually in with something that you mentioned that you don't get asked a lot about that you'd like to talk about, and I think it's going to be really interesting to talk about. So what is love? Lauren Snead (they): Okay, so Sebastian, let me just ask you when you hear the word love, what is the next word that comes to your mind? Sebastian: Ooh, I I just see a picture of a heart. Lauren

Snead (they): that's sweet. I love that. Sebastian: Ha ha ha. Lauren Snead (they): a lot of times when I talk to people, they conflate love with romance. Sebastian: Mm. Lauren Snead (they): You say love and people think romance. You say love, they think partnership, you say love, they think relationship. And especially in the wedding world. And this this idea that somebody else will complete you, somebody else's if you are only lovable, if somebody else chooses you. wants you, includes you, you know, it's all in relationship to other people. And I I just really don't believe that that's love. I think there's romance, that's separate. There's chemistry, that's separate. There's partnership that's separate. There's overlap. It's like a Venn diagram. They all overlap. But to me, love is a warm, magical feeling that you Have inside of yourself that you get to share equitably with others. It is not about power. That's not love. That is something else. That's control. Love is about cultivating a sense of well-being and belonging and joy inside of yourself and sharing it with other people. It's something that we share with each other. An energy, like you said, a frequency. And I think the most important relationship we'll ever have in our entire lifetimes is the relationship we have with ourselves. Sebastian: One thing that you said with that that stood out to me is love isn't dependent on other people. You might have said it slightly differently. But I think that's something that we think of so much because so the second thing that popped into my mind when you asked what is love, I thought of my son. And so but again, that's that's technically depending on another person, it's depending on another thing. And so tell me more about what what you're when you think of how it comes from within. Tell me more about that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): Well, I first of all, it's something we share with the people around us. So it's not exclusive of other people. I want to tease that out a little bit. There's some nuance Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): here. love is the energy you get to share with people around you. And that is what makes it joyful, is that you get to Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): share the love with all the people around you. And I think again, there's a little nuance around care. You you care for somebody, you want to protect them, you want to help keep them safe. You know, those are all demonstrations of love. but I When I see somebody go through a breakup and hear them say, I'm unlovable, I'm like, what is your what is your definition of love here? Because you are in you as a human being are inherently worthy of love be just because you exist. You know, every single human on this planet is worthy of love just because we're here and we're human. And When you start to look at love from that framework, it's not something that can come and go, that can be taken away from you like that. And it it breaks my heart. It

really breaks my heart when I people say I hear people say that, you know, and it's about I think that idea that we deserve love or don't deserve love, or that we're worthy of love or not worthy of love, that we've earned it or not, you know, not earned it, that we've proved ourselves enough or haven't, or we've achieved, you know, we gotta get off of that escalator. You know, we gotta get off of that. Because it's it's not serving us as like as human beings on this planet, that's not serving us. We're putting our self-worth in other people's hands. So yeah, love is something that you definitely share with people and that makes it awesome, but you're inherently worthy of love no matter what. And you can feel that love inside for yourself and with everything around you and everybody around you. Sebastian: What was your journey to get to this definition? Lauren Snead (they): Well, I think there's a few layers to that. one layer is just being in the wedding world where, you know, you look at definitions of love and it's look, I found the person that completes me, and I just don't subscribe to that. So I've had in the last couple of years, I've had to do a lot of soul searching about how I fit in this world and what I want to say about love, and where I want to stand in regards to how I view love and talk about love. And So it's forced me, I think, to have a lot of these thoughts. And then I think for sure coming out as nonbinary, it was a huge act of love for myself to finally use fine language for mys for who I really am and who I've always been. And it's been a really emotional journey. It's been a really painful journey. And it I I've been experiencing something that I I actually found words for. It's called disenfranchised grief. Have you ever heard that expression? Sebastian: No, tell me about that. Lauren Snead (they): It's when you experience a form of grief that isn't culturally or socially acknowledged. So for example, if you say, My cat died, everybody's gonna know that you're gonna be sad, you know, or or if there's a loss in your family. You know, that's like a a grief that is acknowledged by our culture. But when you go through an identity transformation or you realize something about yourself at any point in your life that that wasn't you maybe didn't have language for or context for growing up or when you were younger. It is really normal and healthy to have grief, you know, like I am grieving the 42 years that I lived without having language for who I really am. You know, the many years that I spent carrying around boobs that felt like cantaloupes attached to my body that I didn't want or need, you know? I mean, that's a silly one, but but the deeper grief, right, of of I have not lived my life feeling like I could fully express or articulate who I am. And I'm now that I have the language for it, I'm happy and I'm excited and I'm relieved and I got top surgery and that was amazing. But there's still a grief, you know, there's still a

grief there. It's a disenfranchised grief. And allowing myself to feel that grief and to move through it has been an enormous act of love. Sebastian: Yeah, I can imagine. I yeah, I haven't heard that term, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Lauren Snead (they): I could yeah. Is it something that you can relate to when you look back on your own life? Sebastian: Yeah, I think and so f the for me a little bit differently. I'm not one of the trans folks that like I always knew since I was a kid I was trans. for me it was more of like a it was like an evolution. And Lauren Snead (they): Okay. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Sebastian: then as I like experimented with gender as I got older, it just felt more and more right. It's not Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: that it was like I've been waiting for this. It's just like, no, this feels more right now. So Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: I don't like wish I had a different childhood at all. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: I'm also per I d I don't live with regrets because it got it got me to where I am today. And if if if you go back in a time machine and you change something, you you probably changed everything. So I don't want to change Lauren Snead (they): Right, right, right. Sebastian: everything. But yeah, I don't think about that necessarily. I think there's been periods of like like when I was if I didn't go into the military, what could have my life been like? Lauren Snead (they): Mm-hmm. Sebastian: Or when I left the military and and I I left because I had some back issues after surviving the first Trump administration. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Okay. Sebastian: and so it's like, well, what what could have been? It's it's thinking about some of those different scenarios. but yeah, it's the ones that they're really hard to articulate and very few other people can understand. So you kind of feel like you're moving through it alone. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. yeah, I think that's why queer and trans community is so important. We have to find each other Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): so we can, talk about these things and Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): and find solidarity and community and understanding and compassion. but I the you know, I definitely have waves of grief where, you know, why couldn't I have just been born XYZ way? And it's it's you'd never think that somebody like me might might say something like that, but it will go through my mind, wouldn't would life have been easier if it was like this, this, or this? But those are very, very fleeting thoughts because ultimately I love who I am in this world. And I'm here with a purpose, a really clear purpose to grow love and to spark joy and to be in meaningful relationship with people. And there's no way I could do that if I wasn't. honest about who I am. Sebastian: Yeah, and if you didn't take the journey that you did. Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): If I didn't take the journey that I did, I

wouldn't be here. Sebastian: So I I think that leads well into tell me about your best selling book that came out with with joy in that. Yes. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, joyful love celebrations. Yeah. So, you know, my wife and I got married in 2012 and we lived in Maine at the time. And same sex marriage was on the ballot, but it was not legal. And, you know, we were st standing, you know, sitting trying to plan our own wedding. And I just felt like I didn't have the resources that I needed to navigate that space. questions about even just designing the wedding itself, right? From a planning perspective, but just yeah, the the deeper work or vision. I'd never been to a queer wedding. I had never really seen one in action. Actually, some acquaintances had gotten married, but I I wasn't at their ceremony. So I really hadn't had a lot of exposure to it. And I, you know, zoom ahead, you know, having gone through that experience and having officiated hundreds of ceremonies over the years and worked with hundreds of couples. I decided it was time to write a book about it. And I wrote the book that I wish somebody had handed me when I was getting married. I wish that somebody had handed me this book. And I created it as an interactive journal. So for couples that are getting married, each chapter, it's pretty short and sweet. You know, each chapter has an introduction that has a concept or a story that I share. And then it's followed up with discovery questions, you know, where they get to actually reflect for themselves. So it's like a workbook that couples can go through step by step and The one of the biggest points I try to make in the book is that the number one thing, having done this for so many years, the number one thing that people often remember about their wedding experience is how they felt. And I touched upon this a little bit earlier. It's not how everything Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): looked, it's not how great the food was. It wasn't that the flowers were perfect. They remember how they felt. So I created a This resource and and one of the questions that I ask is how do you want to feel on your wedding day? And how can you make every decision based on that feeling? So I call it your North Star. Sebastian: Yeah. Lauren Snead (they): So let's say I want to feel happy, grounded, and present on my wedding day. Great. That is your North Star. Okay. And you write those words and you stick them on your bathroom mirror, and every single decision you make. From here on out, when you're planning your wedding and planning your ceremony and picking your wedding professionals and picking your guests, you ask yourself, does this person or this experience make me feel more of how I want to feel or not? And if it makes you feel more stress or more anxiety or more overwhelm, it's not the right choice for you. it you know, if you meet with a photographer and you're over the moon and you feel happy and grounded and connected, that's a really awesome signal. We often get stuck in the middle somewhere where you're like, God, I I liked him, but something just didn't feel quite right. Or, you know, my I'm getting a lot of pressure from my family to make this specific kind of decision for my and it just doesn't feel right for me. You have to listen to that. Because ultimately this is about the couple getting married and it's not about anybody else. And Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): if you're gonna spend this much time and energy and resource, you better enjoy it. You better enjoy it. Sebastian: Yeah, yeah. That makes me think of a way of living that I've adopted over the last few years is if it's not a hell, yes, it's a no. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, well I actually write about that in my book. It's a chapter. It's yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And so it fits directly with that. And so similarly, yeah, if it's not a hell yes, 'cause that means Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, yeah. hell yeah. Sebastian: it's not aligned with that that North Star. And so it's it's no. It could Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, that's exactly right. Sebastian: if it's like a I could make it work. No. That's Lauren Snead (they): It's a no. Sebastian: a no. Lauren Snead (they): People I call it getting stuck at sixty, where something is sixty percent of what you want it to be. And look, if you're not shooting over eighty or ninety percent, you know, it's it's hard to make up that difference. And I I actually see it play out a lot in relationships where people are in partnerships and I say, you're stuck at sixty. You know, there's enough good stuff there to feel like you want to stick around a little bit longer, but ultimately you know it's it's not a fuck yeah. It's not a hell yeah. It's Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Lauren Snead (they): there's something else going on there that's just not quite the right fit. And it but it is hard. It's hard to let go of something that's almost right for you. Wouldn't it be just so easy if almost right was good enough? Yeah, we could just keep going. But it will always serve you to find the hell yeah. Yeah. Sebastian: Yeah. I love that. All right. Well, that that's hard to top as we near the end of our conversation. So before I I ask you my own last question, what's the best way for people to get in contact with you, get your book? I know you're doing speaking now. So if people want to hire you to speak, how do they find you? Lauren Snead (they): That's right. W dot lawrenceed.love. That is my website. And yes, I got a dot love, not a dot com. So I don't know how I got that. It just worked out. So my website, Lawrenceneed.love, it's got all my contact info. It's got my media kit for public speaking and links to get my book. My book is available on Amazon, Joyful Love Celebrations. And you can find the link through my website or you can go straight to Amazon. And look for Joyful Love Celebrations by Lauren Sneed. Everybody needs a Sneed. Sebastian: I love it. I love it. Awesome. So for this last question, I always like to preface it. When we think of thriving here on Career and Thriving, we aren't thinking about we're getting to this peak and we're staying at this thriving level because also that seems exhausting. But it's not something, yeah, we get to and we stay at. It's something that we're constantly cultivating for ourselves and it looks different for everybody. So for you, right now, what does thriving actually look like? Not the highlight reel, but the real version. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. It's knowing my inherent worth as a human being, no matter what's going on around me. That is my definition of thriving. It's not about how much money I make. It's not about whether or not the couple books me. It's not about whether or not a friend is upset with me or not, or if my parents, you know, are were able to give me what I needed or not. It is about knowing that I as a human being am inherently worthy of love. And I don't have to prove that. I don't have to perform for that. I don't have to achieve for that. I can just know that in my being and come home to that center, no matter what comes my way. To me, that's thriving. That's the that's the heart of it. That's the heartbeat of what it means for me to thrive. And everything else grows from there. Sebastian: That's a that sounds like a perfect foundation. So and feeds ex with everything we talked about today. So thank you so much for being Lauren Snead (they): Yeah. Sebastian: on Queer and Thriving, Lauren. And I'm sure we're gonna stay in touch and I'm excited for people to maybe you'll there'll be some people reaching out for officiating from this podcast. Yes. Lauren Snead (they): Yeah, that'd be great. Or getting my book and Sebastian, you create such a a warm, beautiful space and I I'm so grateful I got to be a guest on your podcast and thank you for the incredible work you're doing in the world. It's it's really meaningful. We need it more than ever and you're the person to do it. So thank you. Sebastian: And that's our conversation. No neat bow on it because thriving, it isn't a finish line. It's messy, it's specific, and it looks different for everyone. Which is exactly why the show exists. If this one meant something to you, follow Queer and Thriving wherever you listen so you don't miss what's coming, and send this episode to someone who needs the reminder that a good life is on the table right now, not someday. Honest, hopeful. and queer. Take care.