התמלול המלא של #218: Why Python developers are learning Rust

00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.120 And now it's everywhere. 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.719 You know, we see lots of people commenting on LinkedIn going, yeah, yeah, I've always wanted to try this. 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:53.760 I've got to try it at work. 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:58.239 Work is telling me we're going to start implementing this, and you need to know a bit more about it. 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:00.959 So that's the most common scenario for people here. 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:03.280 So I'm gonna let you run through this, Bob. 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:10.400 So the the first thing, the first point here we want to make um about Rust is that it's used heavily in Python already, right? 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:12.960 Yeah, so we have five items uh today. 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:18.879 And uh the first thing is that Rust is already in your Python tool chain, which uh you cannot have missed, right? 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:26.159 There's Polars uh becoming a faster alternative for Pandas, there's Rough um since almost forever now, right? 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:27.360 Two, three years at least. 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:35.520 There's UV, the package manager, that now replaces five or more tools, and they all are Rust-based. 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:44.080 So um yeah, it cannot be ignored that Rust is heavily uh represented in our ecosystem and stack these days. 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:46.080 No, I love it. 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.800 And there's a reason for that, right? 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:57.599 And which takes us on to step two and number two here in the list is that you know Python and Rust are partners, you know, they're they're not competitors. 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:03.199 So I like the quote that you've got written here, which is Python for orchestration, Rust for speed. 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:09.759 So and that that explains quite well why Polars, Rough, UV are all built on top of Rust. 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:11.520 So do you want to add anything to that? 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.199 Yeah, so you don't have to ditch the whole stack, right? 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:24.319 You um the um beautiful example, I mean the um polars uh library is an example, but I think closer to home for most of us is Pydentic, right? 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:33.439 Which at a certain point they thought it was too slow, so they rebuilt the whole core v2 in Rust, and that became, I think, like 17 times faster. 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.039 And then they integrated that into uh Python. 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:44.960 So if you install Pydentic, you don't have to have Rust installed, it's it's a completely you know self-contained thing. 00:03:45.199 --> 00:04:04.240 The cores in Rust, you don't have to know Rust per se, you still use it as a Python package, but the inner cores is Rust and it it has been shipped for you as a Pythonista to use, and you have faster, much faster library which then ripples through uh to Fast API and all these say SQL model and all these my libraries that are using Pythonic, right? 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:08.479 So it's it's uh and that's possible through um PyO3, right? 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.759 The the bindings library that that uh does that bridging, right? 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.759 And MatcherIn that does the um the build process, right? 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:29.600 So there's really good tooling now available uh to write your core in Rust, make it available in Python, but you can still use Python, you can just swap out uh parts of it, and it's a really um yeah, nice integration. 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:31.040 That's cool. 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:31.920 No, I love it. 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:37.759 And so then moving on to number three, which is uh the compile use the compiler as a teacher, right? 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:38.879 It's a mindset shift. 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:44.160 So Rust is a compiled language, um, and Python generally is not. 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:45.920 So talk to us. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.800 Well, what's the difference here, Bob, and and why, how do you use the compiler as a teacher? 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.240 Yeah, this this is amazing and a complete mindset shift. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:59.920 Um, so I've always been um you know from a scripting language background. 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:08.480 So uh naturally when I started to use Rust, there was a lot of fighting with the compiler because it's very strict and it's going to uh tap you on the fingers a lot. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:17.759 Uh I like the analogy in uh the month of Rust launches that uh Rust uh compilers like the critical spouse that uh before you go out, right? 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:19.600 It's uh checks everything. 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:26.160 The spouse is going to uh heavily criticize you that your head is off and you should change your shirt and because you don't want to look ridiculous, right? 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:27.439 And that's going to be painful. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:31.839 But then when you show up, right, um you will show up uh slick, you know. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:34.319 That's that's the compiler, right? 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.519 It's going to highlight a lot of things uh because it's very strict. 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:42.959 But then usually when it compiles, it's good software and you don't have any surprising bugs. 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:54.560 Uh with Python, it requires way more discipline, and we have to do um a lot more checks and balances because things can just um blow up in runtime, for example. 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:59.839 If you don't account for a none, and then you have a none.attribute, of course, it will crash. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:10.319 Uh, and so with Rust, that's all locked down, but at the price that uh you need to have it compiled, and that's that's often more effort at the start, especially when you're um starting out. 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.319 So people coming from a compiled language like C are used to this. 00:06:14.399 -->

00:06:23.360 Uh, but if you have done just Perl, Python, Ruby, uh then this is new and um it takes effort, but it's very rewarding. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:33.439 And um yeah, I always say even if you don't become a Rust open source developer, you come back to Python and you will look at it with more critical eyes. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:41.439 Um you will think more about private, you will think more about mutable data because of the whole ownership model in Rust. 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:53.120 Um the exceptions, for example, try accept, you now have a result object, which the um you have to uh handle both happy and failure path required, right? 00:06:53.199 --> 00:07:04.800 So anyway, long story short, you just come back to Python with more critical eyes, and that's um even if you're not going to be a Rust open source developer, uh it will make you a better programmer and a better Pythonista. 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:10.800 And I don't know if you remember this, but when I when I started learning to code in high school, it was C. 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:13.040 So everything was compiled. 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:20.879 And as that was my first you know, foray into coding, I thought every coding language needed to be compiled like that. 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:29.680 So when we started learning Python together, I couldn't understand where the where do I compile my code before I run it? 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:32.560 And it took a little shift to go the other way. 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:39.680 So I can see how if you're used to running your code and then you know potentially it crashes later because you didn't capture something. 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.800 Um I didn't know that that was impossible. 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:43.920 It didn't make sense to me. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.519 So yeah, it's a I can see how this this works both ways. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.600 Um, so and on that note, right? 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.399 So learning Rust, it makes you a better Python developer. 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:57.120 And these are things that that you especially, Bob, you've discovered as you were learning Rust. 00:07:57.199 --> 00:07:58.560 You realized a whole bunch of things. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:03.199 And you know, you mentioned this a little bit in the previous point, but anything else you want to add to that? 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.560 So, how does learning Rust make you a better Python developer? 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:12.240 Yeah, I gave a couple of examples already with the ownership model and um try accept versus result pattern. 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:21.680 Um so uh yeah, uh yeah, also just the fact that you have to you have require typing, you stack you have to stack in the heap. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:27.040 So um in in Python you have a garbage collector, so you don't have to worry about mem memory management. 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:38.720 So it's an extra thing you have to learn, but on the other hand, that allows you to make things

more performant, and by doing that, um you start to understand how these libraries um are so much faster, right? 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:42.399 So yeah, I think that's it for that one. 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:43.600 Okay, yeah. 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:44.639 No, nice. 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:45.519 I like it. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.720 And um moving on to number five then. 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:51.519 So it's approachable now, right? 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:56.720 So the the learning curve isn't as challenging as as people make it out to be, right? 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:02.559 And I think just before you jump into that, you know, there's definitely a mindset shift with with so much of this. 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:15.200 And you know, you listening to this when you first started learning Python, or if you're learning it now, uh you probably realize that it's not as challenging as you thought it was going to be before you even sat down and put fingers to keyboards. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.679 So similar kinds of things here with with Rust. 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:19.279 And you know, Bob, you dive into that. 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:20.399 What's what's the go? 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.720 I mean, the learning curve is still steep. 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:24.480 Um, you cannot get around that. 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:33.600 Um, but um yeah, another cool thing by the way is that uh it pairs very well with AI because the contracts are stricter. 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:36.559 AI, you have better guardwheels for AI. 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:43.519 So AI um is actually a really good companion uh because you can you're more explicit with the code, right? 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.200 So AI is better able to help you. 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.559 But even so, it still is a steep learning curve. 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:54.240 Um, but we try to make it better by on the platform going always from Python to Rust. 00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.399 So we explore a Python concept you already know, and then we translate it into uh Rust, right? 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:08.799 So for example, with result um uh non-an option, uh we we we start out with try accept and then we translate it to Rust, right? 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:15.919 With um iterations, we we we start out with Python and then translate that to the corresponding Rust concept. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:24.879 And in the cohort, um, because we work on a JSON parser, which is very relatable, it's not too difficult, it's not easy. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:31.759 Um, we really scoped it out to teach all the core concepts in the context of as we always do with Python, right? 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.639 In the context of building a practical project. 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:43.600 Um, so we spent four weeks of core Rust, and then uh week five is about PyO3 integration, and week six about uh performance and benchmarking. 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:56.879 So I think that makes it um all more accessible by really going from the Python to Rust bridging, and as we always do, to work on a practical project and introduce the concepts gradually. 00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:59.120 Just a quick break from the episode. 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:04.879 Stuck at the beginner or intermediate level and wondering what it actually takes to become a senior developer. 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:16.159 It's not just more years of experience, it's owning projects end-to-end, making solid design decisions, writing clean tested code, and communicating like a pro. 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.399 That's exactly what we help people with inside the Pi Byte Developer Mindset program. 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:27.919 You build real-world apps, get weekly code reviews, and sharpen your developer mindset that will lead to promotions. 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:34.399 If you're serious about stepping up to a senior dev, check out the link in the description and apply right there. 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:36.000 Now back to the episode. 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.600 So you can learn by doing yes, you you need to. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:46.960 I spoke with somebody yesterday, and the typical story was reading, and I've done this myself, right? 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:54.639 Reading a lot of books about Rust and and nothing's stuck right till uh he started to apply it in the project. 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:57.120 And that's what I did from day one, actually, right? 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:04.000 Blogging and applying it to simple projects, and that that's still a long ride, but that definitely helped, you know. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:04.720 Yeah. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:12.080 So for those of you who are just learning about this for the first time, when Bob was learning Rust a year or two ago, I think it was a year and a half ago, yeah. 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:12.720 Yeah. 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:18.159 So uh he decided to be uh he you know, he thought he didn't have enough work to do. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:25.919 So he said, I'm going to learn it and I'm gonna blog about it at the exact same time and write one blog post every single freaking day. 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:29.200 And it was a month then up there, yeah. 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:30.639 Uh so have a have a look. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.120 We'll put the link in the the show notes of that of his blog. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:39.440 You should give it a you can see his slow descent into madness as he does this every day. 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:42.080 Um, but one thing actually, I do a serious note. 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:43.200 I do want to clarify here. 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:53.919 So Bob was mentioning in that point just there about you know, with Rust, we lead you into it with try accept before we talk to you about result none um in Rust. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.039 But we didn't give you any context for that. 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:01.919 So we actually launched our Rust coding platform a week ago. 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:03.120 It was last Monday. 00:13:03.279

--> 00:13:05.279 Yeah, so a week ago from when we're recording this. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:13.440 Um and so for those of you who haven't seen it yet, this is a coding platform, just like the Pybytes platform, with a much nicer interface. 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:15.200 You did a great job on that, Bobby. 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:16.399 Absolutely beautiful. 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.320 But um this is a platform that is just for Rust. 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.559 So just for Rust, it rhymes. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:27.120 Uh, and so you go there, same style, you do exercises in the browser. 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:34.320 Uh, we have tests running against it, uh, and there's a lot behind the scenes that that's just incredible to get this thing running. 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:36.639 But it allows you to learn Rust in your browser. 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.159 You don't have to install any dependencies, any local stuff on your computer. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.320 Uh, and it's a one-time purchase. 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.960 So it's not a subscription like the other platform. 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.559 It's currently just a one-time purchase just to get people going. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:50.399 Look, this is a great place to learn. 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:59.120 So if you haven't yet, go and check it out, especially if you know a bit of Python, because this is designed as Bob was saying. 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:13.840 If you know some Python, this will help you get into Rust so much quicker than if you were just reading a book, because every lesson, every exercise is linked to the Python concept or the relative Python concept, if there is one. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.879 So there, there's there's my pitch to finish this off. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:22.639 Yeah, it's um I already got feedback that the bridging from Python to Rust has been super helpful for people. 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.480 Yeah, makes it much more approachable, palatable. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:28.559 And yeah, it's a one-off price. 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.919 Uh, no subscription for that, and you actually lock in future updates. 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:37.519 So if you if you buy it now, future exercises are yours as well for a very reasonable price. 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.200 Um yeah, I it's very deliberate. 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:43.039 You have to look up concepts. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:44.720 Um, there are links to it, of course. 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:49.840 Uh, there's no AI, so you really have to write the uh exercises yourself. 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.679 Uh, you can download them as well. 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:58.320 Shout out to Giuseppe who made this nice uh downloader um Rust crate, uh crate is a package. 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.840 Um, so similar to uh Russell's Eat Local, uh, you can download all the exercises. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:11.840 Um, of course, based on your access, there's an API key you will get if you subscribe, and then you can nicely

code them locally as well. 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.960 Um, submission is still manual, but um yeah. 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.279 At least you get to do them on your own computer, yeah. 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:20.000 Uh, strings, ownership. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.399 We just gradually introduce um everything. 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.320 Lifetimes I still kept out, it's a bit more complicated, but that's coming. 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.440 And I will just probably do like a track a month or something. 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:35.200 So uh we we definitely gonna keep adding exercises and uh yeah, it's uh it's exciting. 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:44.480 And maybe as a last um um you know, stat that um turns out that Rust has been the number one most admired language for 10 years. 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:47.759 So 72% of Rust developers want to keep using it. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:57.759 Uh so it's uh it's a language people um again, it's difficult, but it's something very rewarding because you write more reliable code. 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:04.320 Um yeah, and I'd say once they're in it, you know, and they see the elegance of it, why would you go anywhere else, right? 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:05.840 Why would you do it any other way? 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.440 So no, that's cool, man, and a great point to stop on. 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:15.440 So those of you, you know, who've who've considered Rust, who've thought about Rust, now's a really great time to learn it. 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:20.799 You know, uh being a Python developer with Rust skills makes you far more valuable, you know. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:28.159 And I don't mean to pit anyone against someone else, but it is pretty ruthless out there at the moment with the job market and everything. 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:44.320 So anything you can do to get a leg up on the competition, to put yourself ahead and make sure you're not the person who, you know, unfortunately gets the the riff or um or you are the person who's at the front of the pack for the job interview, you've got to take it, take the opportunity and do it. 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:50.320 So uh learn it, it's it's worth doing, and um, it'll help you with your Python code and your deliverables at work. 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.360 So there you go. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:51.840 Yep. 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.120 I'm happy and proud that we have added it, and uh I I agree. 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:59.519 Um it's a great skill to have and um it will make you more valuable. 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:09.039 Uh and again, even if you don't use Rust in your day-to-day, you're going to be a better Python programmer because you're going to uh you're going to be more strict in your code. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:09.519 Yeah. 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:10.240 Yep. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.759 Absolutely. 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:12.559 All right. 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.000 Well, that's a good place to end. 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.000 So we're going to skip books this week. 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.079 Um, mainly because I haven't read any new books since I last recorded with you. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:22.400 The books I'm reading are like this thick. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.720 I mean, if you're not watching on YouTube, I'm there's a pretty big, like seven, eight hundred pages. 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:28.400 So um, and I've been coding. 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:29.680 So I'm gonna leave it there. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.039 Um, thank you all for listening. 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:32.799 Bob, anything you want to add before we drop? 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.000 No, no books. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.319 Um, I guess just co-coding on one of our platforms, either Python or Rust. 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.759 But yeah, get some code in and uh and share it with us what you've done. 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:42.319 Yep. 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:48.079 And I'll add that we've we've heard so many people lately say how lonely the coding experiences be. 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:51.599 I wrote an article on this on uh the blog for this recently. 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:57.279 And so if you are looking just for people to chat with about code, network a bit, come and join us in the community. 00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.359 We're seeing a lot of people enjoy it. 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.279 So uh a lot more uptick, a lot more people getting involved, things happening. 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.160 It's very exciting. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:04.799 So yeah. 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.279 All right. 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:06.480 Well, thanks everyone, Bob. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:07.440 Thanks for helping. 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.000 Enjoy it. 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.680 Hey everyone, thanks for tuning into the Pie Bytes podcast. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.039 I really hope you enjoyed it. 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:29.440 A quick message from me and Bob before you go to get the most out of your experience with Pie Bytes, including learning more Python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests, discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more. 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:34.160 Please join our community at pybytes.circle.so. 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:39.759 The link is on the screen if you're watching this on YouTube, and it's in the show notes for everyone else. 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:46.880 When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and Bob, and the many other developers in the community. 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:53.200 It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:57.599 We'll see you in the next episode, and we will see you in the community.