התמלול המלא של Power up your performance

that I can make things happen 77 00:03:18,838 --> 00:03:21,920 and decide what to do that will affect the outcome. 78 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,297 Are all of those six conditions 79 00:03:24,377 --> 00:03:26,290 equally important for people's performance, 80 00:03:26,370 --> 00:03:28,919 or does one of them take priority over the others? 81 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,847 All of them are tremendously important. 82 00:03:30,927 --> 00:03:32,570 For individuals in different times 83 00:03:32,650 --> 00:03:34,460 there may be a different weighting between them, 84 00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:36,479 but you don't want to let any of them lapse. 85 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,066 And what's exciting about them 86 00:03:38,146 --> 00:03:40,600 is it's not just about the manager or the leader. 87 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,530 It's as much us as individuals. 88 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:45,880 There's a legal phrase called jointly and severally responsible, 89 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,320 and we've slightly borrowed that for these six conditions. 90 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,640 So, we're all jointly and severally responsible 91 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,120 for creating these conditions across the bank. 92 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,144 And so, intuitively, 93 00:03:55,224 --> 00:03:57,860 I kind of, I guess, I get that growth is important 94 00:03:57,940 --> 00:03:59,360 and I understand purpose 95 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,055 because we often talk about purpose 96 00:04:01,135 --> 00:04:02,460 and an organisation's purpose. 97 00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:05,387 But I think it would be good to dive into 98 00:04:05,467 --> 00:04:08,100 practically at an individual level, 99 00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:10,910 how do I and someone listening, 100 00:04:10,990 --> 00:04:13,099 take those six conditions 101 00:04:13,179 --> 00:04:15,066 and sort of add them into my work? 102 00:04:15,146 --> 00:04:17,810 Like, what am I going to do differently on a day-to-day basis, 103 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:21,190 so I get performance from investing in those areas? 104 00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:22,619 So, let's take each one in turn 105 00:04:22,699 --> 00:04:24,269 and explore it a bit more deeply. 106 00:04:24,349 --> 00:04:26,051 Starting with the one that I think 107 00:04:26,131 --> 00:04:28,060 can come across as the biggest 108 00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:31,129 and maybe hardest to know what to do with 109 00:04:31,209 --> 00:04:32,460 on a day-to-day basis, 110 00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:34,420 which is purpose. 111 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,295 So, what does that mean 112 00:04:36,375 --> 00:04:38,090 for someone at an individual level 113 00:04:38,170 --> 00:04:40,199 on an average day at work? 114 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,350 It's a great question. And what matters most of all, 115 00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:46,100 like news, is local purpose or personal purpose. 116 00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:48,350 I'm going to look at this in two ways. 117 00:04:48,430 -->

00:04:50,503 The first is thinking, who benefits 118 00:04:50,583 --> 00:04:52,557 from the work that I am doing. 119 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,120 So, as a result of getting the language better in the application for a loan, 120 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,763 maybe a business founder is able to raise the money sooner 121 00:05:00,843 --> 00:05:02,858 and get the business off the ground. And if I hadn't done that, 122 00:05:02,938 --> 00:05:04,020 they'd have had to have 2 or 3 goes 123 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,120 and it would have been too late for them to start. 124 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,040 Or maybe an individual is able to get a savings product 125 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,806 that they would never otherwise have got, 126 00:05:10,886 --> 00:05:12,740 because they've discovered that they're eligible for it. 127 00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:15,559 So, I can start to see the benefit that someone's getting. 128 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,061 And we know that the best days we have 129 00:05:18,141 --> 00:05:19,544 are those where we've made progress 130 00:05:19,624 --> 00:05:21,311 towards helping somebody else 131 00:05:21,391 --> 00:05:24,030 achieve something that wasn't the case without us. 132 00:05:24,110 --> 00:05:26,670 Now it might be a customer, as the examples I've given here, 133 00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:29,740 or it could be someone internally or a collective effort. 134 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:32,940 But what we've done has created something bigger and better 135 00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:34,680 that someone else gains from. 136 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,050 So, that's one stage and one way we can think about purpose. 137 00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:41,836 But the other bit is simply thinking that my work is not irrelevant. 138 00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:43,600 Now, that might sound irreverent, 139 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,239 but it has a purpose to it as well. 140 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,740 And I'll give you an example from a famous psychology professor 141 00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:52,246 who asked doctors and hospital janitors or cleaners 142 00:05:52,326 --> 00:05:55,650 to organise their work between three different categories. 143 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:57,160 Did they see it as a job? 144 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,720 Did they see it as a career, 145 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,119 or do they see it as a calling with noble purpose? 146 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,190 And what people often suspect is that the doctors were more likely 147 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:06,810 to see their work as a calling, 148 00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:09,620 and the hospital janitors more likely to see their work as a job. 149 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:11,399 -Yeah. -That would be wrong. 150 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:12,997 Oh, tell us more. 151 00:06:13,077 --> 00:06:13,890 What was really interesting 152 00:06:13,971 --> 00:06:16,960 is the results for the two were exactly the same. 153 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,776 And it was a third, a

third, a third. 154 00:06:19,856 --> 00:06:21,600 So, allocated a third to it being a job, 155 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,840 a third to it being a career and a third to it being a calling. 156 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,350 And what was so interesting is she also repeated this research 157 00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:28,623 with other professions 158 00:06:28,703 --> 00:06:31,079 and found pretty much the same results. 159 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,040 So, what that suggests is the degree to which we see our work as purpose-driven 160 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,954 or about making impact and mattering 161 00:06:37,034 --> 00:06:39,420 isn't a factor of what the nature of the work is. 162 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:41,320 It's a factor of the nature of who we are 163 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,279 and how we choose to think. 164 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,100 I really like that because I think sometimes we make purpose 165 00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:50,067 this aspirational and maybe slightly unattainable thing 166 00:06:50,147 --> 00:06:52,020 for everybody to have. 167 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,684 But just starting with that question of 168 00:06:53,764 --> 00:06:55,810 who benefits from my work today 169 00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:57,789 just makes it feel much more, 170 00:06:57,869 --> 00:07:00,217 much more real and much more something that, 171 00:07:00,297 --> 00:07:02,799 you know, I and people listening can ask themselves. 172 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,190 So, reminding ourselves of why what we're doing matters 173 00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:06,750 and who benefits as a result 174 00:07:06,830 --> 00:07:10,020 not only is good for our overall wellbeing and happiness, 175 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:11,959 but has an enormous impact on our performance. 176 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,830 It makes me think, you know, purpose is a prime of your performance. 177 00:07:14,910 --> 00:07:18,190 If you started your week with that question in mind, 178 00:07:18,270 --> 00:07:21,700 what the impact over the week on your performance could be, 179 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:23,580 versus somebody who just, 180 00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:25,540 you know, just continues with a day-to-day, 181 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:28,359 slightly more kind of operating on autopilot, I suppose. 182 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,670 Exactly that, and not only at the beginning of the week, 183 00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:33,490 but at the beginning of every day or several times a day. 184 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:35,580 And the other thing we can do is not only do it for ourselves, 185 00:07:35,660 --> 00:07:37,490 but we can do it for our colleagues. 186 00:07:37,570 --> 00:07:40,200 So, Helen, I really thank you for that research you gave me. 187 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,497 I didn't put it in my report, 188 00:07:41,577 --> 00:07:43,192 but it got me thinking differently 189 00:07:43,272 --> 00:07:45,400 in a way I'd never have got there without it. 190 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,680 And suddenly you think, huh? That was worthwhile! 191 00:07:48,181 --> 00:07:49,642 as opposed to, you give me the research, 192 00:07:49,722 --> 00:07:51,519 you see then my presentation, 193 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,375 it's not mentioned in there. You think, well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it? 194 00:07:54,455 --> 00:07:57,460 So, there's lots we can do individually to help each other see purpose 195 00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:58,919 as well as to help ourselves. 196 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,550 So, let's move on to another one of the conditions that you mentioned, 197 00:08:02,630 --> 00:08:04,288 which was challenge. 198 00:08:04,368 --> 00:08:05,860 And I'm really intrigued by this, 199 00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:08,599 I think because I'm so attracted to the idea of challenge. 200 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,063 But I wanted to get your perspective of what what does the research, 201 00:08:12,143 --> 00:08:15,230 your research tell us about challenge at work? 202 00:08:15,310 --> 00:08:16,990 And then I have another question in my mind 203 00:08:17,070 --> 00:08:20,879 about how do we get to the right challenge for different people? 204 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,601 So, the great thing about a challenge 205 00:08:22,681 --> 00:08:25,320 is you want it to be difficult, just out of sight, 206 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,090 -but not impossible. -Okay. 207 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:29,490 And that, of course, isn't necessarily about the challenge itself. 208 00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:31,319 It's about how you choose to see it. 209 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,790 Now, one of the challenges that we have in organisations with challenge 210 00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:38,000 is that you can want to be global, those challenges, 211 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,180 in order that we get approved of afterwards. 212 00:08:40,260 --> 00:08:42,010 So, if I set a really low expectation, 213 00:08:42,090 --> 00:08:43,820 oh, Helen, this is going to be so difficult. 214 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:46,245 You've got no idea. The market's horrible... 215 00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:49,440 And I convince you, as my manager, to give me a low-ball goal, 216 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,670 I'm more likely to have achieved it by the end of the year 217 00:08:51,750 --> 00:08:53,315 and get some credit for that. 218 00:08:53,395 --> 00:08:55,930 But actually it would be psychologically a lot less satisfying 219 00:08:56,010 --> 00:08:58,039 and I will perform a lot worse. 220 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,320 I'll give you an example of an experiment. 221 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,240 So, they took two groups of households 222 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,570 and they encouraged them to improve energy efficiency. 223 00:09:04,651 --> 00:09:07,881 This was a group of psychologists who are always doing mean experiments like this. 224 00:09:08,388 --> 00:09:12,439 And they got one group to have the goal of 20% energy improvement. 225 00:09:12,520 -->

00:09:14,680 And they really worked hard to get the 20% energy improvement, 226 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,920 but they only got to about 15%, 227 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,804 which in old-fashioned performance management was like, 228 00:09:18,884 --> 00:09:21,977 I'm afraid you've missed out. You're going on a plan not so good. 229 00:09:22,058 --> 00:09:26,680 The other group had a 2% goal. They got an average 6%. 230 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,679 Congratulations! You've trebled your goal! What a great job! 231 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,660 But of course, you're much better off with the people with the 15% improvement 232 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:34,800 than you are with the 6% improvement. 233 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,460 So, what that tells us is we're better off having stretching goals, 234 00:09:37,540 --> 00:09:40,473 some of which we don't achieve but will perform better 235 00:09:40,553 --> 00:09:42,410 than lowballing those goals, exceeding them, 236 00:09:42,490 --> 00:09:44,560 but not stretching ourselves nearly far enough. 237 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,890 And so how important is it to be able to see how far you've stretched almost to, 238 00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:53,920 to sort of take stock of the successes along the way? 239 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,180 It's really important. 240 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:57,447 And this comes under one of the other conditions, 241 00:09:57,527 --> 00:09:59,885 which is recognition and being appreciated 242 00:09:59,965 --> 00:10:02,799 or appreciating yourself for what you've achieved. 243 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,980 So, the key is not to dismiss those achievements 244 00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:08,140 because they're really important, but not to harbour on them forever, 245 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:10,250 because otherwise you won't be on to the next achievement, 246 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,200 the next challenge down the road. 247 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,590 So, it's really important to find out in yourself to say, 248 00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:17,830 what have I done that I'm really proud of, and what can I learn from that? 249 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:20,443 And I can repeat and apply elsewhere? 250 00:10:20,523 --> 00:10:22,690 And what are the things I could have done a bit differently, 251 00:10:22,770 --> 00:10:25,039 and how might I apply those in the future? 252 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,510 So, in terms of recognition, let's stay with that condition. 253 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:31,240 So, part of this is about my own reflections 254 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,546 on what I have done well and what I have achieved. 255 00:10:35,626 --> 00:10:38,670 Are we also seeking recognition from other people 256 00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:40,679 in order to support our performance as well? 257 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,213 -I think we're doing both. -Okay. 258 00:10:42,293 --> 00:10:45,290 In psychological terms, there are two kinds of a motivation. 259 00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:47,850 There's intrinsic and extrinsic. 260 00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:49,908 So, intrinsic are things you draw from yourself. 261 00:10:49,989 --> 00:10:51,410 I'm pretty proud of myself. 262 00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:54,110 I love that experience or that gave me pleasure. 263 00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:55,890 An extrinsic are the ones that come from outside, 264 00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:58,160 you know, my boss or my colleague or my partner told me 265 00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:01,161 I was wonderful or terrible or whatever it happens to be. 266 00:11:01,447 --> 00:11:05,200 The more we can draw intrinsically from our motivations, 267 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,110 the happier we're likely to be. The less stressed we're likely to be, 268 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:10,460 the more we're likely to persist and sustain. 269 00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:13,100 But it's really hard to do because we're so conditioned 270 00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:15,439 to want approval from other people outside. 271 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,020 So, recognising there is this balance here, 272 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,990 I encourage us as much as possible to look for intrinsic motivations 273 00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,880 and recognising what you're proud of and being: "That's good enough" 274 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,286 rather than relying on other people's approval. 275 00:11:28,366 --> 00:11:29,890 But there are times you want other people's approval, 276 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:32,870 and particularly a manager or the boss of the manager, 277 00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:35,740 you may want to be recognised or appreciated for what you've done, 278 00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:38,020 and they're the most important thing is to be perceived 279 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,210 that you've been fairly recognised. 280 00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:42,973 You haven't got away with slacking off and not being noticed, 281 00:11:43,053 --> 00:11:45,380 but you also haven't have achieved something significant 282 00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:48,570 and therefore not being appreciated for it. 283 00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:51,070 And so, if I come on to another condition, 284 00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:55,120 one of the things that's really important is attention, being noticed. 285 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,830 So, if you feel you have not been fairly recognised, then go ask. 286 00:11:59,910 --> 00:12:02,520 You know, I felt that I'd done a great job on this 287 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,680 and you hadn't really appreciated it. And so-and-so hadn't done such a good job, 288 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,970 and they got lots of credit for it. What's up here? 289 00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,599 And you may find you've missed a point. 290 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,870 You know, the other person actually had a more complex environment to navigate. 291 00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:16,230 They had to build tougher coalitions 292 00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:18,940 and therefore that's why they've been recognised for

their achievement. 293 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:21,120 Or it may be the person just didn't notice what you'd done. 294 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,760 And now they do. 295 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,250 So, there's a very valuable part in being noticed, 296 00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:27,950 which obviously we'd love other people to do of their own volition. 297 00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:30,399 But if they don't, let's tell them. 298 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,490 I think that's a really interesting relationship between recognition, 299 00:12:34,571 --> 00:12:37,020 so, what I can do for myself and what I might want from other people, 300 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:39,740 like you mentioned, manager in particular, 301 00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,900 and then also attention like kind of asking for the feedback 302 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:45,439 that's going to help me with my performance. 303 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,230 If we were to look at that from two different angles, 304 00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:52,039 so, how can managers support maybe with feedback and then also recognition 305 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,750 and then me as an individual, what could I do myself 306 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,270 if we were to sort of break that into a couple of actions? 307 00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:59,800 What do you think managers can do in those areas 308 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,120 to help people with their performance? 309 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,430 Well, the most important thing managers can do, 310 00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:06,400 and we can also ask for it ourselves, 311 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,399 is to use what's called descriptive praise. 312 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,167 -Okay. -So, when you actually notice 313 00:13:10,247 --> 00:13:11,530 what someone did, 314 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,616 rather than telling them they're brilliant or terrible 315 00:13:13,696 --> 00:13:16,040 or genius or lazy or whatever it happens to be, 316 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,420 which is pretty useless whether it's positive or negative, 317 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,479 you have no idea what effect it's going to have. 318 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,000 But if you describe what happens, 319 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,719 then someone is much more likely to know what to do as a result of it. 320 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,059 -Okay. -They did this very interesting experiment 321 00:13:28,139 --> 00:13:33,260 with kids, and they asked kids to draw a picture with their hand, 322 00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:36,543 invisible picture with the hand of a tractor in a field. 323 00:13:36,623 --> 00:13:37,820 Now, obviously, because it was invisible 324 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:39,520 and you were just making it up as you went along, 325 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,439 you couldn't tell if it was good or bad. 326 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,353 But to both groups, they said, 327 00:13:43,433 --> 00:13:45,090 to the first group, they said, this is brilliant. 328 00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:47,493 What a fantastic drawing! You're doing really well. 329 00:13:47,573 --> 00:13:49,210 And the second group, they described what was happening. 330 00:13:49,290 --> 00:13:51,480 Oh, is that the sun? Are you drawing a fence there? 331 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,980 Is that the tractor wheel? Is that the hay and the field? 332 00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:57,440 So, they just described what was happening. 333 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,850 Then for the second time, they had a go at doing a different exercise, 334 00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:03,064 drawing something else, house on the hill or whatever it happened to be. 335 00:14:03,144 --> 00:14:06,680 They said, oh my gosh, that's terrible. You're making a real mess of this. 336 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,780 What kind of drawing is that? That's... oh no, surely not! 337 00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,160 Now, the first group had been told how brilliant they were, 338 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,670 stopped much sooner and gave up. 339 00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:18,870 Then the second group, who'd had the descriptive praise beforehand 340 00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:21,279 and therefore knew what good looked like. 341 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,680 So, there's something very powerful about describing 342 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,301 what someone's doing that helps build resilience, 343 00:14:26,381 --> 00:14:28,700 because we know what to do better. 344 00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:31,040 So therefore, as a manager, instead of saying, 345 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,270 you did a great presentation, you might say, 346 00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:35,639 I noticed you had sources in all of your charts. 347 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,190 Or I noticed that when the CEO asked you a question, you asked a question back. 348 00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:42,400 And then separately, you can say what that means to me. 349 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,669 So, I notice you put sources on your charts. 350 00:14:44,749 --> 00:14:46,314 That tells me you're very rigorous. 351 00:14:46,394 --> 00:14:49,680 That suggests to me you've done a lot of research to support this presentation. 352 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,300 Or you asked the CEO a question first. 353 00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:54,719 Suggest to me you're willing to speak truth to power, 354 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,420 or you're willing not to take something at face value 355 00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:58,910 because someone in authority tells it to you. 356 00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:02,460 Now, on the receiving end of that, I can disagree with the information. 357 00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:04,160 I can say, there weren't sources in all my charts, 358 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,760 or actually it was a statement, not a question. But that's quite unlikely. 359 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,679 But then I can debate about the interpretation of it. 360 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,407 You know, I know you think I'm very rigorous, 361 00:15:12,487 --> 00:15:13,740 but actually it's

the first time I've done it. 362 00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:16,660 Or yes, I am very rigorous and I always try and get information. 363 00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,599 I sometimes wonder if I should do more interpretation. 364 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,020 So, that allows the conversation about being noticed to develop 365 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,359 and evolve into a much better way than he said, she said. 366 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,330 It's so interesting. It's also quite a simple swap for people to do, 367 00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:32,954 to move from that kind of direct praise, "That was great." 368 00:15:33,034 --> 00:15:35,306 Or even criticism, I suppose, "That wasn't very good", 369 00:15:35,386 --> 00:15:37,070 into something that's actually useful. 370 00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:39,570 People get much more data for their development 371 00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:41,610 when you're descriptive about what they're doing, 372 00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:43,840 it's much more powerful. 373 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,630 So, what if I'm the individual 374 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:49,940 and I'm kind of aware of, we talked about four conditions so far. 375 00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:52,390 And these two, like, attention and recognition, 376 00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:55,890 I'm thinking I don't think I get enough of that 377 00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:58,430 and my performance is being affected by it. 378 00:15:58,510 --> 00:16:00,430 What is a sort of simple action 379 00:16:00,510 --> 00:16:05,159 that someone can take to up the dial on those two contributors? 380 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,279 -We can ask for advice.-Okay. 381 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,243 So, by and large, we all like being asked for advice. 382 00:16:09,323 --> 00:16:11,280 We're, "Oh, you want my advice? I must be quite impressive." 383 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,840 So, you go to someone and say, "Can you give me some advice? 384 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,170 What did I do in that meeting that you think I could have done differently? 385 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:19,919 That would have got us to a better result?" 386 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,810 And they say, "Talk less" or "Make your points clearer." 387 00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:26,130 You might start with that. "Can you give me a specific example?" 388 00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:28,630 And keep asking for specific examples. 389 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:32,320 And if you ask for specific examples you'll get descriptive praise. 390 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,599 And with descriptive praise you've got a chance of knowing what to do with it. 391 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,630 And you can then decide that person is bound to say that 392 00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:39,570 because they always say, why isn't there enough data? 393 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:41,810 Or why is there too many pictures in your charts? You know? 394 00:16:41,890 --> 00:16:44,140 So, you can discount it because of where they're coming from, 395 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,020 but you don't want to discount it at all. 396 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:48,210 And therefore, the more examples people give, 397 00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:50,379 the more you'll understand what they're noticing 398 00:16:50,459 --> 00:16:52,460 and what that tells you about them. 399 00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:56,759 It also helps them become a bit crisper on their views about you. 400 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,610 So, rather than just saying, I think you're brilliant or lazy 401 00:16:58,690 --> 00:17:00,120 or whatever it happens to be, 402 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,080 it's actually I've got to give you examples 403 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,230 and that may alter how I've interpreted your behaviour, 404 00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:08,160 and therefore I might just see you a bit more clearly as a result. 405 00:17:08,494 --> 00:17:10,760 I feel like we're getting to some very powerful actions 406 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,880 and powerful questions through the course of this conversation 407 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,680 for people to try out. I love that, the kind of, ask for advice, 408 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,550 and then sort of, ask for the examples as well, 409 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:21,106 so you get more of that detail, more of that description. 410 00:17:21,186 --> 00:17:25,240 So, let's talk about the fifth condition, which is all about growth. 411 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,079 What does that look like for someone at work when we're talking about growth? 412 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,982 What it looks like is what can I discover or pick up in the work that I'm doing 413 00:17:34,062 --> 00:17:38,159 that will help me become better in the future than I am today. 414 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,050 Now, ideally, we want to focus on things that were already quite good at 415 00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:43,370 and want to get better at, or things we're not very good at, 416 00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:45,519 but we really want to get good at. 417 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,960 And therefore we're playing to our strengths. 418 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,500 And what we can do is start to notice things about 419 00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:54,320 when our skills are or aren't at their best. 420 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,580 For example, I'm in a contact centre. I'm speaking to dozens of people a day. 421 00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,860 I can start to learn how to pick up signals 422 00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:05,137 about which of the customers who most want to get to an answer quickly, 423 00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:06,740 and what are the signals that they actually want empathy 424 00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:08,200 and understanding first. 425 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,160 And I can try different approaches out, 426 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,279 just altering it slightly to see what effect it will have. 427 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,170 Rather like a master chef has a set of recipes in their restaurant, 428 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:19,900

but they're constantly adapting and changing to say a little bit more salt 429 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,870 or leaving it in the pan a bit longer. 430 00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:24,599 Which is it that makes this recipe really sing? 431 00:18:24,679 --> 00:18:25,690 In the same way, in our roles, 432 00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:28,970 we can find ways to spot the impact of different approaches 433 00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:32,399 that we're taking and get better at doing them each time. 434 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,670 So, we start for growth. The starting point is strengths, 435 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:38,430 and we think, what is something I'm good at that I want to get better at? 436 00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:40,810 Or what is something that I'm actually not that good at at the moment, 437 00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:43,040 where I really want to improve. 438 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,260 So, once we've we've got to that insight, 439 00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,360 then we move in towards the getting better. 440 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,319 The stretching, the strength. 441 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,510 So, what should I do if there's a strength 442 00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:54,070 that I want to be known for, I want to use more. 443 00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:57,319 How do I start to stretch it? What would that look like for me? 444 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,330 I might look at where I'm not having the results that I want to have, 445 00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,530 and then I try and look at either what other people are doing. 446 00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:07,370 So, someone who's really good at this, what do they seem to get away with? 447 00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:09,850 And maybe I go and ask them, you know, you seem to be fantastic 448 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,759 at dealing with unhappy customers. Imagine we have such a thing. 449 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,830 What do you need to do about that and how do you respond? 450 00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:18,639 What happens when you have a boss who seems to take the credit 451 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,359 and pretends that all your work is theirs? How do you handle that? 452 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,360 And then if you can start to ask your colleagues 453 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,380 and the more wide-ranging colleagues you can come to, 454 00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,602 the more varied and rich that advice will be. 455 00:19:30,682 --> 00:19:33,399 But you can start to learn from others who are doing this thing well, 456 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,600 and then you can have a go at yourself. 457 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,570 Experiment with these things, sometimes it will go wrong. 458 00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:38,930 Sometimes you'll have what are called intelligent failures, 459 00:19:39,010 --> 00:19:40,530 where actually you failed at something 460 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:42,470 that you couldn't have worked out how to do before. 461 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:45,639 But because of that, you've learned how to do it much better in the future. 462 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,550 So, you're constantly in what's sometimes called a growth mindset. 463 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:49,870 How can I get better? 464 00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:52,230 How can I discover new things that will help me, 465 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:54,759 and how can I apply those and keep improving? 466 00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:01,050 And what, in the course of asking myself those questions, I start to think, 467 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:05,910 oh, but the things that I want to grow in, the strengths that I want to stretch, 468 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:09,610 aren't necessarily what my job needs from me. 469 00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:11,960 So, there's almost like a bit of a tension between what I want 470 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,470 and what my work needs. 471 00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:17,479 What do I do then, if that might feel like it's getting in the way of my growth? 472 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,360 So, there are several things we can do there. 473 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,951 First, we can work out what are there bits of my job 474 00:20:22,031 --> 00:20:24,600 that will help me get good at the thing that really matters? 475 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,617 So, I need or want to get really good at writing in ways that are very clear. 476 00:20:29,697 --> 00:20:31,070 I don't do a lot of writing in my job, 477 00:20:31,150 --> 00:20:32,760 but occasionally I have to write the odd email, 478 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,490 or I have to write a short report. 479 00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:37,195 How can I make those really good and use those as moments, 480 00:20:37,275 --> 00:20:39,800 so I can really hone my writing skills? 481 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,610 And then in due course, I might think, well, actually, 482 00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:43,020 let me see if I can find a job. 483 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,650 And the advantage of working for a big organisation 484 00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:48,350 is there are lots of jobs available requiring lots of very different skills. 485 00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:52,679 How can I find a role that allows me to do, in this case, more writing? 486 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,710 Feels more realistic to focus on growth moments in a week, 487 00:20:57,790 --> 00:21:03,050 rather than to expect growth, like, every minute to be a growth minute. 488 00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:05,470 Do you think that just trying to spot those moments in the week, 489 00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:07,690 that that's where I'm really going to stretch that strength, 490 00:21:07,770 --> 00:21:10,679 rather than trying to think this is going to happen every minute of every day? 491 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,407 I think it's all about our mindset. 492 00:21:12,487 --> 00:21:14,860 So, if you have a few moments in a week, 493 00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,980 it's a lot better than no moments in the week. 494 00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:18,930 But actually almost everything we

experience 495 00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:21,210 is an opportunity to learn something new. 496 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:23,770 We're almost always talking or connecting with other people, 497 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,770 and people are infinitely complex. 498 00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:29,190 You never master the ability to influence or master the ability to hear 499 00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:32,279 or to understand or to empathise. You can always get better at that. 500 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:35,390 And these are great signature skills to have not just at work, 501 00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:37,050 but actually at home as well. 502 00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:39,360 Your partner or your children or your parents might appreciate 503 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600 you being more empathetic or better at listening, 504 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,520 or whatever else it might happen to be. 505 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,600 So, there are skills we can learn in everything that we do. 506 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,090 Now, you might find it's a bit exhausting. You don't want to be constantly learning. 507 00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,079 You want to have a moment of just doing. And that's fine as well. 508 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,050 But those opportunities are almost always there. 509 00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:57,650 And the more we get good at growing and discovering and learning, 510 00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,720 the more likely we are to feel fulfilled, 511 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,240 the more likely we are to actually be physically healthy and mentally healthy, 512 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,340 and the more likely we are to become more capable down the road. 513 00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,679 So, there's lots of gains from growth. 514 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,511 So, look for the learning and the growth. 515 00:22:11,591 --> 00:22:13,400 -The growth will come. -Exactly that. 516 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,437 And so, I think this what can I do. I think this links quite nicely 517 00:22:17,517 --> 00:22:20,599 into the sixth condition which is around choice. 518 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,990 So, if I'm looking to increase my choices, I'm in a large organisation 519 00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:27,110 and I want to have more choices about, 520 00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:29,470 I don't know what I'm working on and where I'm working, 521 00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:32,879 what helps me to increase choice in that context? 522 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,590 To focus on the things that I can affect, 523 00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:38,030 rather than worry about the things that I can't. 524 00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:40,990 And these exist whether you work in a large organisation or a small one, 525 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:42,370 but you're still part of an ecosystem 526 00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:45,910 where you're dependent on customers and suppliers and other competitors 527 00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:47,092 and all sorts of things. 528 00:22:47,172 --> 00:22:49,639 No one has

complete control of their situation, 529 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,870 with a possible exception of a poet who sits at the top of their attic 530 00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:55,799 and has a candle and never meets anybody outside. 531 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,630 But pretty much all of us are dependent on conditions that exist externally, 532 00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:02,480 and we can choose to worry about the things that we can't affect, 533 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,460 or we can choose to focus on the things that we can affect. 534 00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:10,100 And in large organisations, there's loads we can do to build alliances, 535 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:11,560 to understand what other people are doing 536 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,999 and make sure that our work connects with them 537 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,420 in order to work out what others are doing that is successful, 538 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,260 that we can replicate and what others have gone wrong that hasn't worked, 539 00:23:19,340 --> 00:23:20,479 that we can avoid. 540 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,225 So, there's an enormous amount we can do to advance 541 00:23:23,305 --> 00:23:26,480 the purpose or the cause, or the nature of the work that we're doing, 542 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,620 and our job to be at our best and to feel at our best 543 00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:31,400 is to focus on the things we can do 544 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,639 rather than worry about the things that we can't do. 545 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,820 So, it feels like we're trying to sort of hold optimism for our opportunities, 546 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,211 rather than feeling like a victim 547 00:23:41,291 --> 00:23:43,919 of the situation that we find ourselves in? 548 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,190 I'm going to be slightly psychological about this, 549 00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:47,866 because there's a difference between optimism 550 00:23:47,946 --> 00:23:50,139 -and what's called locus of control. -Okay. 551 00:23:50,219 --> 00:23:54,230 So, the locus of control is focusing on what are the things that I can affect. 552 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,800 So, I can't determine what questions you ask me in this, 553 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,999 but I can choose how I answer them. 554 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,471 So, out of my control is the questions you ask, 555 00:24:01,551 --> 00:24:03,810 in my control is the answers that I give. 556 00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:08,439 Now, optimism is about whether I see something as a positive or a negative, 557 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,260 or how I interpret positive or negative events. 558 00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,916 So, an optimist will interpret a positive event 559 00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:17,319 as universal and permanent. 560 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,520 So, I have cooked this meal, means I'm always a brilliant cook. 561 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,430 The pessimist will interpret it the other way round. 562 00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:26,840 It's a one-off. I was lucky, I happened to cook a good chicken, 563 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,759 but it probably won't happen again. 564 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,290 And the reverse is the case. 565 00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:34,010 So, a negative events and optimists will say, this is temporary and specific. 566 00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:35,799 I just happened to get it wrong this time. 567 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,930 Whereas a pessimist would go, "Typical. I can never do this. 568 00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:39,698 I'm completely hopeless." 569 00:24:39,778 --> 00:24:41,870 Now, with optimism and pessimism, 570 00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:45,500 it is not the case that one is better than the other all the time. 571 00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:49,760 So, optimists live longer, achieve more, and are happier. 572 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,133 But they're also wrong more often. 573 00:24:52,213 --> 00:24:54,650 So, you want to get the right balance to be flexible 574 00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:57,639 about when you're an optimist and when you're a pessimist. 575 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,020 So, we've talked through the six conditions now, 576 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:01,660 and I think in the course of the conversation 577 00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:04,525 we've covered lots of different questions people can ask themselves, 578 00:25:04,605 --> 00:25:06,480 some really interesting bits of research, 579 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,070 which are definitely going to stick with me, 580 00:25:08,150 --> 00:25:10,091 and also some actions people can take. 581 00:25:10,171 --> 00:25:16,750 But if you are going to pull this together into three powerful actions that anyone, 582 00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:21,020 anyone could take away, regardless of sort of what condition they're starting with, 583 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:22,919 what would you suggest for people? 584 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,590 Number one is concentrate on what you can do 585 00:25:25,671 --> 00:25:27,770 rather than worrying about what you can't affect. 586 00:25:27,850 --> 00:25:30,580 And there are always things you can do to improve the situation. 587 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:33,479 So, focus on where you can make a difference. 588 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,640 Number two is alter your time horizon. So, you're thinking slightly further out. 589 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,490 That way you'll get less buffeted by events. 590 00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:42,877 You'll probably get less stressed, you're more likely to learn, 591 00:25:42,957 --> 00:25:45,480 and you're much more likely to feel a sense of accomplishment. 592 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,870 So, work out where do you want to be in six months time or 12 months time, 593 00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:52,219 rather than six minutes, six hours or even six days. 594 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,470 And the third is build a community that you can draw on 595 00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:56,690 and listen to and learn from. 596 00:25:56,770 -->

00:25:59,360 And the more diverse that community is, the better. 597 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,370 So, we tend to go to the same types of people for advice. 598 00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:04,780 They tend to be at roughly the same stage in life, 599 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:06,360 possibly the same educational background. 600 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,120 If we went to university, they probably did as well. 601 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200 They may even have studied the same subject. 602 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,360 This creates a kind of more static view and perspective than we will get 603 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,920 if we get to a wide range of people, people who are much younger or much older, 604 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,770 people who come from very different academic 605 00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:22,310 or professional backgrounds, who do different disciplines. 606 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,710 And one of the joys of being in a great bank 607 00:26:24,790 --> 00:26:27,120 is there are multiple, very different people out there. 608 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,199 It's up to us to make the effort to get to know them. 609 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,760 So, three specific actions to help people power up their performance. 610 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,650 First, ask what I can do. Second, look further out into the future. 611 00:26:38,730 --> 00:26:42,279 And third, create a more diverse community around your work. 612 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,430 -Yes. -Brilliant. 613 00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:45,170 Well, hopefully that is useful for everyone. 614 00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:46,420 It's definitely useful for me. 615 00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:48,959 I'm definitely taking some of that advice away from today. 616 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,297 Thank you so much for the conversation today, Octavius. 617 00:26:52,377 --> 00:26:55,071 Before we let you go, in our next episode, 618 00:26:55,151 --> 00:26:57,060 we're going to be talking about the topic of feedback, 619 00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:59,810 which obviously we started in today's conversation, 620 00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,220 but I just wondered for you and your feedback, 621 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,799 what is the most powerful piece of feedback you've had in your career? 622 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,760 I'll give you the worst. And then also the best. 623 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,860 So, before I started professional work, 624 00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:13,580 I was a journalist and I worked on restaurant reviews 625 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:16,959 and travel articles for magazines. It was enormous fun. 626 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,360 And I remember submitting this article to an editor and she said, 627 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,850 hm, I think it needs more zhuzh. And I was just like, totally crestfallen. 628 00:27:25,930 --> 00:27:28,110 I had no idea what that meant or what to do with it, 629 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:31,720 or where even to start, so, that was really unhelpful feedback. 630 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,630 But another time an editor said to me, 631 00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,810 he said, I read your your articles and they're broadly very good, 632 00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:41,639 but your first paragraph always takes too long to get into the topic 633 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,050 and you seems indulgent, and it's for your own writing yourself into it. 634 00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:48,060 So, I would just edit out, cut your first paragraph 635 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:49,980 and go straight to the second paragraph. 636 00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:52,100 And that I always found very useful feedback. 637 00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:53,860 Sometimes the most powerful feedback you get 638 00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,380 is the stuff that you can't see for yourself, 639 00:27:56,460 --> 00:27:58,380 and asking those people that you trust to give you 640 00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:00,720 that insight is very useful for your development. 641 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,919 It was also very descriptive. 642 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,959 -Yes! -Okay, I can totally get it. 643 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,046 I love the first paragraph. I spent ages conjuring the words 644 00:28:07,126 --> 00:28:09,800 to make it delicious, and clever, and so whatever. 645 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,830 And it was just totally for me. It wasn't for the reader. 646 00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:13,920 And therefore getting that was incredibly helpful. 647 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,520 Thank you so much for your time and sharing that with us today. 648 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,603 My pleasure.