התמלול המלא של The Missing Partner in Postpartum Care: Why Excluding Fathers Harms Maternal Health | Eric Stein EP 241

resources that exist now for dads and uh finding men's groups and stuff. 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:50.000 Like there's there were so many things that I did that that helped, and and providers could definitely have something like a packet almost ready for that. 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:58.240 And then, and just to touch on the the taking time off thing, uh man, you know, that you said it what a blessing that was for you guys to have that much time. 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:03.040 And same with us on our third, like I I took so much time off just because we we could we could do it. 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:10.800 But I I'll also say that on our first birth, uh the story I told myself was that I didn't have the time to take off. 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:23.120 And the story I told myself is that we needed to make more money to so I had to go back to work early, or you know, that my my boss was going to not allow me to do that because they asked, you know, they wanted me to come back kind of quickly. 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:30.319 But I would just I would encourage, you know, push hard, but push them back on that, you know, like, hey, are you sure that that's a true story? 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.600 Because if I look back on it and I'm honest, it wasn't a true story. 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:40.560 I could have taken more time off and been more present, and it would have made our first birth probably much better, and we would have been fine. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:47.600 So I think there's a little nuance there, but um, certainly the provider can can have a lot of resources, if that makes sense. 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:49.360 Yeah, why do you think that is? 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:58.079 Like I I almost feel and I and I sense like there's this obligation, like, this is the way that I can serve, I can provide for my family, right? 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:04.480 And we almost have it intertwined into our our societal expectations of men, like this is your responsibility. 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:06.480 I wonder if that plays a role. 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:08.879 Like what's your what's your thoughts on that? 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:20.160 Yeah, I I think, well, I think men have been pushed out of birth so much, too, that that's just how they feel they're gonna be able to show up is to, all right, well, look, I'll make the money so we go to the appointments and and do the things. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:28.319 But, you know, I think um the presence is also a very powerful thing, especially for the mom leading into it, right? 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.800 And so I was always trying to be as present as I could and go to as many things as I could. 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.759 And then it ultimately led to the best birth experience that we've ever had, like from our third, right? 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:42.399 Going from the first and all the stories to our third and all the extra time that I took. 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.399 I mean, Holly will tell you it was it was easily the best birth experience. 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.759 So yeah, societal pressure flow for sure. 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.720 You know, I would say that for my husband as well. 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.560 Like it was a night and day difference from in the very beginning. 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.120 Like, I think there was a learning curve for him. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.519 I was a single mom with my first. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:06.800 And so with he, you know, he came around on the second, and that was his first. 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:10.240 But I also felt like, okay, you got to know this, this, and this. 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.959 And he was kind of like, oh, okay, well, I'll do my best. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:13.519 Right. 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:20.160 And then that baby happened, and then he was like a hundred percent like, oh, now I get it. 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:21.519 Now I understand. 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:23.920 I'm a hundred, like, I'm all in. 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:42.240 So it was the third one, but I also felt like I didn't quite have the language, which is is crazy because this is the work that I've been doing for the last 15 years, but I still didn't know exactly how to translate that into like what I need and how to have him show up in that way. 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.079 And so it's very interesting. 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:52.959 Like I one there was like this learning curve, and then there was a learning curve for me and making sure that I communicated really effectively. 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.959 Like, these are all the things that I need. 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.279 And he was like, No problem, got it, got it, got it. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:57.680 Right. 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.480 And then showed up in all of those spaces. 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:01.839 And there was a lot of spaces. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:08.240 There was like making food for our our, you know, myself and all of our children, right? 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:22.720 There was um making sure that like the little things got taken care of in terms of like feeding the animals and like and it's not necessarily little, but like showing up in that way, but also showing up for the baby and getting to know the baby. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.240 There was a lot of things that were on his plate, and it was probably a little hard to juggle. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:29.680 Did you feel that as well? 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:30.480 Oh, yeah. 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:36.559 The the like the third one, I think I was trying so hard to do all the things. 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:50.960 And there was actually a point during postpartum, during the first like 40 days period too, where Holly just broke down and cried, and she was like, she like I had been in this like almost robot mode of like trying to do everything. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:56.559 Like I would bring her breakfast in bed every day, doing all the dishes, doing the drop-offs with the kids, do

this, do that. 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:02.080 Like, I thought me just doing more was going to lead to like what like make her feel better. 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:03.600 But one day she just broke down crying. 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:06.399 She's like, I just want you to sit in bed and eat with me. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:13.840 Like what and I and I all of a sudden I was like, Oh my gosh, I have just completely forgotten about just that presence. 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.639 And and that presence is so powerful. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.279 But yeah, yeah, that's a it's interesting. 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:21.360 But I had to learn just like your husband, too. 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:23.759 You know, like I didn't know what I was doing the first one. 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:24.720 And you know what? 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:26.960 Now that we're talking about this, it just came to me. 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.120 My I didn't hear anything from my parents. 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.759 Who's yeah, we're poor society, right? 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:34.879 Like, this isn't this isn't something men get to witness. 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:37.039 No, no, they don't get to witness it. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:38.639 Our parents didn't. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.039 And like my dad didn't sit me down. 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.759 He's like, hey, this is this is the most important time. 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.080 Here's all the things that you need to look out for. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.200 This is what you should do, this is what worked for me and didn't work for me. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:50.879 I want you to do better than me. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.399 Like it never happened. 00:09:52.480 --> 00:10:00.000 So I just went into it blind, and I think a lot of men, same thing, you know, and uh, but we learn, you know, we learn number three, right? 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:01.600 Just third time is a charm. 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:03.840 That's how it was for us for sure. 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:04.240 Yeah. 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:14.799 I also want to address the elephant in the room because so many women feel like they have postpartum depression because of their unsupportive partner. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:30.080 Like if they had a partner who showed up and wasn't on their phone and didn't disappear for 30 minutes to the toilet, like those things would they they wouldn't experience the level of depression and and fear and pain that they do. 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:33.120 Resentment is real in postpartum, right? 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:38.639 So, what about those women who have partners who are not stepping up? 00:11:47.560 --> 00:11:48.600 Yeah, that's tough. 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:53.320 I mean, it's like you can't you can't make someone step step up, right? 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.039 Like you can't, you can't change what's already done. 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:59.159 And yeah, it's that's a that's a tough thing to do. 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:09.960 I think

the only thing the women can do is just is just focus on honoring that time and doing the things that they need to, they know they need to do rest, recover, bond, maybe find a support group. 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:15.320 Gosh, like tell tell your man how he or your partner how he's feeling or how you're feeling, right? 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:21.879 Like in a way too, that's not that's not like you need to do this, you need to do that. 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:28.279 It's like express how you're feeling, let those emotions out, let the let the pain come out, right? 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.039 And then I think the the man can see that and he'll know, right? 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:33.879 He'll know what he needs to do at that point. 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:36.919 But it's a tough situation to to be in in that point. 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:46.759 I would say give the give the guy a chance, you know, like tell him how you're really feeling, tell him what you really need, and do it from the heart and and um give him a chance to step up. 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:48.039 That's all you can really do. 00:12:48.279 --> 00:13:01.560 Yeah, I think this is one of those areas that needs to happen and needs to be a conversation in pregnancy about, you know, all of the things like we talk about, you know, before you get married, you should have these conversations. 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:18.440 Well, before the birth of the baby, like this is this is one of those conversations, but also one of those things that we bring up and talk about in the postpartum, you know, six-week checkup, which I know is our only checkup, but thankfully, hopefully, many I think providers are doing something different. 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:23.240 They're actually having more of these uh uh appointments and check-ins. 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.879 And this needs to be a question like, how is your your partner? 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:29.639 How how are you communicating? 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:30.840 Like, how does that feel? 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.919 And there's always a strain, right? 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.080 There's if things change, things shift during this time. 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:43.879 But let's navigate this together so that resentment doesn't grow because resentment is is one of the biggest marriages. 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:44.679 Yep. 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:47.720 How do we how do we manage and work around and do this? 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:55.799 And I find like so often, this is the time when when families go to therapy, which is fabulous, and they get to work things out. 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:02.039 Um, but this is also the time where a lot of women say, wait a second, this was the wrong choice. 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.200 This was not where I need to be. 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:14.440 And I think both of those need to be honored, uh, especially when there's like this whole I'm supporting us and being together and doing all of this work, right? 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.320 Sometimes work can feel one-sided and that's not fair. 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:22.840 But if you do the work, right, and you're showing up in that way as much as you can, it's such a nuanced thing, right? 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:23.320 Yeah. 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:27.240 One of the things that you you mentioned is masculine leadership and birth. 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:33.480 Like that's a like just saying that for a second, masculine leadership and birth. 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.720 Like, what does that look like versus the current model? 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:39.960 That looks like showing up prepared. 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:44.679 That looks like really taking care of yourself leading up to the birth. 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:51.320 That looks like advocating for the feminine in that really special time. 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:55.320 A week before the due date, I had a checklist. 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:55.720 Right. 00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.279 Or I had a checklist well before a week before due date. 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:05.720 But a week before the due date, I started executing this checklist, and it was every single morning I would do the same thing. 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:07.000 Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:08.360 Check everything off. 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:13.480 And um, and every single day I was ready for that baby to come. 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.200 Like after I got all the loose ends were tied up, everything's cleaned up, the space is ready. 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:23.560 That there was just everything was ready to go at any moment, every single day, starting a week before. 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:27.480 So, like, think about how calm and confident I was going into that. 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:29.240 Like, I was ready at any time. 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.840 And then when the time came, I was of course ready, right? 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:41.879 I wasn't like running home from work, or I wasn't like tying up loose ends or doing doing something that needed to be fixing something that needed to be fixed, you know, things like that. 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:49.960 So yeah, it shows it it it shows up as as really being prepared and um and taking care of yourself. 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.840 You need to you need to be taking care of yourself before the baby comes. 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.159 Because you can't fill from an empty cup, right? 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:56.039 Everybody knows that. 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:04.200 You can't show up and and hold strength and confidence in that moment if you're about to fall apart at any moment, you know? 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.440 So I think that's what it what it shows up for like. 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.200 And um I really recommend finding other men to talk to. 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.360 I think that's just that is something that changed my life in a really big way. 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:21.480 I found a men's group and I and I just let out

what I was going through and what my problems were. 00:16:21.560 --> 00:16:26.840 And it was just like I got the the brothers right back at me, were like, hey, dude, have you thought about it like this? 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.039 Think about this. 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.120 Uh, this is what's happening from my perspective. 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:33.399 And it it just totally changed me as a person. 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:39.159 So I I think that um that kind of stuff, it only comes from being around other, you know, masculine men though. 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:39.960 Does that make sense? 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:41.720 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.080 I feel it's it's not something that you see often. 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:50.440 Like, and I'm wondering from a father's perspective perspective, like what resources are out there for fathers? 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:56.600 Like what gaps are you seeing that need to be filled, especially by say the provider? 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:03.560 And and I have a funny story on that because I felt like I with my with my first, I had a partner. 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:09.720 We separated at six months postpartum, but I had five different providers. 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:21.159 There's like it was a million different things that were going wrong, like walking in on me undressing, tell me they don't care, they see like just like very much just uh patriarchal. 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:22.519 I don't care what you think. 00:17:22.679 --> 00:17:24.440 This is the way it's gonna go. 00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:28.279 Um, and just overstepping boundaries. 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:39.159 And not once in any of those five different providers where there's any talk about the partner, except for are you being abused by your partner? 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:41.240 Is your home safe with your partner? 00:17:41.639 --> 00:17:41.960 Wow. 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:53.720 That was the only thing that I had until I found my midwife who has uh helped us through all four pregnancies as at this point. 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.279 And she's been absolutely incredible. 00:17:56.360 --> 00:18:00.200 But it wasn't until her where she was like, How's your relationship? 00:18:00.679 --> 00:18:02.759 How do you feel in that relationship? 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:04.440 And just asking those questions. 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:09.240 So anyway, I'm I'm I'm just sharing that story because it's coming to me as you're talking. 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:18.440 Like the only thing that I remember in all of those providers was and and I see this often in trainings that I attend, are you assessing for danger? 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:20.840 And that's it. 00:18:21.239 --> 00:18:22.679 It's it's uh what a gap. 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:23.320 What a gap. 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:24.119 You know what else too? 00:18:24.199 --> 00:18:26.280 As you were talking, I just it just came to me. 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:34.679 You know, for the man, you know, it's it's not a good time to be during this, like leading up to birth and uh and especially postpartum. 00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:36.039 You don't need to be right. 00:18:36.679 --> 00:18:48.599 Any anything that like, you know, you're I'm trying to lead the family and I'm trying to do this for our best good, and all the things that you may have conflict going on, that stuff needs to just go out the door for a while. 00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:58.519 You can come back to it later, you know, but it's just about like let's let's make the home happy and safe and calm, and then we can address, you know, any disagreements later on. 00:18:58.679 --> 00:19:02.920 That was just another another way to show up in a masculine way, just as a as it came. 00:19:03.159 --> 00:19:04.599 Happy wife, happy life, right? 00:19:04.760 --> 00:19:05.800 You know, it's a real thing. 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:06.760 It's a real thing. 00:19:07.239 --> 00:19:07.559 Yeah. 00:19:07.800 --> 00:19:08.920 What do you think that is? 00:19:09.159 --> 00:19:12.679 Like what what is that that makes that true? 00:19:13.239 --> 00:19:17.960 Well, I mean, happy wife, happy life, happy husband, happy wife, happy life too, right? 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:25.639 I feel like just just trying to to bring out the happiness in the other is what will create a happy life, right? 00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:28.440 You can't you can't like force the other person to be happy. 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:30.840 You gotta give them an opportunity, though, right? 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:32.760 And I think it goes both ways too. 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:47.719 Like if the if the woman is pouring into the man and talking him up and supporting him even when he makes mistakes and just being that like emotional foundation for the relationship, he's just gonna turn into the best version of himself and pour that right back on her, right? 00:19:47.960 --> 00:20:00.519 You can't it can't just be both, you know, one way, but especially in that time of like pregnancy, birth, postpartum, like the the um, it's okay to be a little one-sided, I guess, if that makes sense. 00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:02.199 For sure, for sure. 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:07.719 I think there there comes a point where she has uh intricately more needs, right? 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:20.440 And more things that she has to work through and uh places that she's holding within herself that need to be addressed more so than say the father's perspective, right? 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:28.760 If maybe if he was birthing a baby, but uh really like there's so much that goes into that energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally. 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:43.239 And so I can definitely see where that becomes like, you know, the the focal point of you know, the kind of the relationship until that baby's birthed and cared for, and and then we start transitioning into other, you know, toddlerhood and things. 00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:48.280 And then we can come back to uh

where are we in this space as well. 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:56.039 So yeah, and that's uh too another another benefit of having some some other men around you would be they can call you out. 00:20:56.280 --> 00:21:06.039 It's hard for a woman to call out a man in this way just because it's like we're just different, you know, like we we operate differently, we have different, what's that book called? 00:21:06.199 --> 00:21:10.599 Men are from Mars, Women are from some like quintessential iconic book of like, yeah. 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:11.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:11.719 --> 00:21:15.880 Um, you to have another man look at you and be like, dude, shut up. 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:17.639 Like, what are you doing right now? 00:21:17.719 --> 00:21:18.360 That's not important. 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.760 And then you have to you get a chance to reflect. 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:22.760 Talk somebody talks to you like a man. 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:35.000 You know, providers could really, you know, in in dealing with the the men or the masculine, they they could really summon their inner masculine in that way and talk to them like that. 00:21:35.159 --> 00:21:41.559 You know, be very direct, you know, don't beat around the bush, don't like insinuate things. 00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:45.880 Like tell me exactly what's going on here and why I should care. 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:49.719 And then like just that's what the that's what the masculine appreciates. 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.840 So that would be a good as we're talking through this, a good tip for the the providers for sure. 00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:56.199 That's beautiful. 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.960 Do you do you think that that's something that moms would be able to do too? 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.000 Because I look back, like that's what my husband really wanted me to do. 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:13.559 Like, obviously, not beat around the bush, not, you know, well, I would really like this, or you know, no, tell them exactly like this is important, this is what I need, and this is how it needs to be done. 00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:17.079 Like, you know, and it's yeah, you could do it, right? 00:22:17.239 --> 00:22:20.440 Um Holly was really she was good at it. 00:22:20.679 --> 00:22:25.960 She used to be a wedding planner, so she was like, she was used to telling everybody what to do. 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.840 Because everybody would come to her and be like, What do you want me to do? 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:29.639 And she would just do it. 00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:43.960 But if you want to hear something funny, that was that was uh actually starting our business was the the beginning of the shift of that because she was showing up very much in the masculine and I was showing up very much in the feminine in our relationship. 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:49.719 And I was more than happy for her to just tell me what to do. 00:22:49.960 --> 00:23:00.440 And then when the business started going well and things were growing, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave this, we had this like come to Jesus moment of like, wait a minute, that's not how this is gonna work. 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:01.639 Like, our roles are reversed. 00:23:01.719 --> 00:23:04.920 And I was actually in the men's group at that time, and they all pointed it out. 00:23:05.159 --> 00:23:10.440 They're like, dude, you need to you need to step up and she needs to go take a more of a backseat in this. 00:23:10.679 --> 00:23:23.400 And if you're gonna drive this ship while she's staying home with kids and homeschooling and doing all this stuff, like she can't drive the ship, but you can't you're I'm not the type of person that's just gonna be like, tell me exactly what to do, and I'm just gonna do it. 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:25.320 Like, I gotta I'll steer. 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.000 You just tell me where to steer, right? 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:28.920 Like, tell me where we're going, I'll steer the ship. 00:23:29.159 --> 00:23:39.719 Anyway, it was uh it was very much a um a turbulent time for our relationship when we started to understand this, me specifically, and started to change. 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:43.400 And uh it was it was yeah, it was a tough experience. 00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:49.800 But on the other side of it was like harmony in our relationship that we had no idea existed, you know, it was cool. 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:56.679 You bring up a lot of points about the feminine and the masculine, and I think this is an ongoing conversation to have. 00:23:56.840 --> 00:24:03.880 Like there's so much benefit to understanding, and we all have aspects of masculine and feminine within us, right? 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.519 And when we are operating in a very kind of almost balanced, cohesive manner. 00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:10.760 And I don't balance is probably the wrong word for it. 00:24:10.840 --> 00:24:13.320 Like it's more of like an ebb and flow, yeah. 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:16.519 I find for myself and my relationship and everything that I do. 00:24:16.679 --> 00:24:19.079 I mean, I I am a CEO of a company. 00:24:19.159 --> 00:24:35.639 There's a lot of masculine play things in place, um, but there's also a lot of feminine too, and that I get to lean into, which is so amazing, and to see that transpire into motherhood and and also fatherhood for my husband and and all of those things is a beautiful, beautiful thing. 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:41.079 I'm curious, like, how did you come into this understanding of masculine and feminine? 00:24:41.159 --> 00:24:47.000 Because I feel like the conversation for women, like this, this is uh almost trending. 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:52.840 Like you can you see it all over Instagram, like there's there's whole accounts on the masculine and the feminine, right? 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:55.559 But you don't hear a lot of men talking about this. 00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:56.840 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:01.239 Um, I think it was trial by

fire, and it was the men's group that I was in. 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.840 I mean, they're the ones who even opened my eyes to it in the first place. 00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:19.880 I don't know if I had really come across it much on I think I had, maybe on social media and read some things, but not until I sat in front of a bunch of other men and told them what I was going through and had them look at me and be like, dude, like this is what's happening. 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:21.639 And it was like, oh, okay. 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:27.960 Like I got to actually sit in the fire with it, was like six other dudes around me that I didn't even really know well either. 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.719 It was one of my buddies and like five other guys that he knew from a gym. 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:36.360 And they're all these, they're all they're all like jacked and talking about their feelings and stuff. 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.199 I was like, oh wow, this is cool. 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:39.880 But they just told me what was up. 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.159 And it was, I felt so fortunate to be to be a part of that at that time. 00:25:43.239 --> 00:25:46.679 So I think uh yeah, the I'll go back to that a lot. 00:25:46.760 --> 00:25:49.639 Like, men need to be talking to other men about this kind of stuff. 00:25:49.719 --> 00:25:52.519 And I think that's like the whole takeaway from this. 00:25:52.679 --> 00:25:59.639 Like, find a men's group, have a men's group, make that readily available, push that men's group. 00:25:59.719 --> 00:26:03.480 If you're a provider, moms, like make sure find some men's groups. 00:26:03.639 --> 00:26:05.960 Like that sounds like the thing to do. 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:06.440 That's important. 00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:17.639 Providers, oh my gosh, provider making a men's group around this specifically and giving them some guidance and especially having like the like think about me in a men's group about birth. 00:26:17.719 --> 00:26:19.159 I've been I've done it three times. 00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:22.679 Like, think about what I could give to the guy coming in for the first time. 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:23.800 Yeah, right? 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.159 Like you would it would do a lot. 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:25.880 It would do a lot. 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:27.960 I think we just figured out what we need to do, Miranda. 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.039 I think I think that's the next, yeah. 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:30.920 I think that's it. 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.440 That's absolutely beautiful. 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:33.639 We need to figure that out. 00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:34.039 Yeah. 00:26:34.199 --> 00:26:36.280 Um, uh I like my head is spinning. 00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:36.920 Okay, y'all. 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:38.280 Thank you so much for being here. 00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:39.480 We got to go talk. 00:26:39.639 --> 00:26:44.039 Uh, but really, this has been this has been so transformative and so amazing. 00:26:44.280 --> 00:26:54.440 And um, this is not the only time that you're gonna hear from Eric and I and Holly as well, because we we have partnered together in this uh beautiful space that is postpartum. 00:26:54.679 --> 00:26:59.719 You know, I do a lot of education and we obviously have the postpartum nutrition certification. 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:10.920 And we also use uh restorative roots for the work that we're doing because we have a lot of providers that we support that are not in the kitchen, that can't be in the kitchen, right? 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:18.679 If you're a doctor, if you're a midwife, um, if you're, you know, sometimes even a doula and you just don't want to cook in the kitchen, right? 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:20.440 There is restorative roots. 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:30.760 And that's where we're going to get the right foods, the organic, homemade, you know, direct to consumer, like deliver straight to your door. 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:32.199 It's revolutionary. 00:27:32.280 --> 00:27:35.400 It's such a beautiful, beautiful thing that you all have created. 00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:39.079 And I'm so grateful for this relationship and the expansion. 00:27:39.239 --> 00:27:50.440 It's so funny because I'm seeing, you know, you're you're right now in your kitchen and there's like these massive boxes towering over you right now that somebody's like wheeling away. 00:27:51.320 --> 00:27:57.639 I know that you guys listening on the podcast can't see that, but this is like it's absolutely hysterical as I'm talking about. 00:27:58.679 --> 00:27:59.800 We're making a lot of food in here. 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:01.239 We're making a lot of food in here. 00:28:01.320 --> 00:28:02.199 It's it's really great. 00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:08.360 And we've we just keep those same principles though, like clean ingredients, everything's organic or regenerative. 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:13.320 We're big believers in regenerative agriculture and supporting the the farms that are healing the land. 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:17.400 And uh yeah, cook it in bone broth, freeze it, ship it right to your door. 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:18.440 That's what we're doing here. 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:19.400 That's what we're doing here. 00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.679 We're we're grateful to be a part of what you're doing too and partnering here. 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.480 I thank you for yeah, for what you're doing. 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:30.280 Is there anything that you wish I asked you that I had yet to ask? 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:32.360 No, I think you covered it. 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:33.320 I think you covered it. 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.320 I think we we got to the bottom of a lot of stuff. 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:37.239 I think we got to the bottom of a lot of stuff. 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.360 I I feel so excited about this next phase for us. 00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:43.480 Where can people find you who are listening into the podcast? 00:28:43.639 --> 00:28:46.599 Obviously, we're gonna have your links uh in the show notes as well. 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:52.760 Yeah, um, we're on social, on Instagram, is our big thing, is uh at eat.restorative roots. 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.480 Our website's restorativeroots.com. 00:28:56.199 --> 00:28:58.360 And uh you can always shoot us an email. 00:28:58.440 --> 00:28:59.559 I see all the emails. 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:00.760 Yeah, we're around. 00:29:00.840 --> 00:29:01.320 We're around. 00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:01.719 Okay. 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.159 Thank you so much, Eric. 00:29:03.239 --> 00:29:04.199 It's been such a pleasure. 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:05.400 Thanks, Miranda. 00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:14.280 Thanks so much for being a part of this crucial conversation. 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.119 I know you're dedicated to advancing postpartum care. 00:29:18.280 --> 00:29:30.360 And if you're ready to dig deeper, come join us on our newsletter where I share exclusive insights, resources, and the latest tools to help you make a lasting impact on postpartum health. 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:35.480 Sign up at postpartum you the letter you.com, which is in the show notes. 00:29:35.639 --> 00:29:42.920 And if you found today's episode valuable, please leave a review to help us reach more providers like you. 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:48.440 Together, we're building a future where mothers are fully supported and thriving.