התמלול המלא של The Relationship-First Podcasting Blueprint: Dr. Jeremy Weisz on Networking, B2B Growth, and Lasting Impact with RISE 25

Speaker: 00:02:13 school, I knew how to be a chiropractor. I didn't really Speaker: 00:02:17 know how to run a business. So I was going to these marketing and, Speaker: 00:02:21 at that time, we're talking about, like, Speaker: 00:02:23 02/1967, these marketing conferences and Speaker: 00:02:27 some of them were Internet marketing conferences. You know, this thing Speaker: 00:02:31 called the lab and how you market online, and I Speaker: 00:02:34 stumbled across some early on people doing Speaker: 00:02:38 podcasting. Right? And I I don't even know at the time if we called Speaker: 00:02:42 it podcasting. I think it was called, like, online interviews or something. Speaker: 00:02:46 And it, like, was the perfect mix of my personality Speaker: 00:02:50 of curiosity, professional development, Speaker: 00:02:54 forming amazing relationships, and content. And so I Speaker: 00:02:57 started, podcasting at the time and and, Speaker: 00:03:02 you know, what happened was and this was not about the health profession. What Speaker: 00:03:06 happened was people started coming to me at that time asking me to help Speaker: 00:03:09 them, launch and run their podcast. Right? And so I'm Speaker: 00:03:13 like, sure. At that point, I built up a small Speaker: 00:03:17 team because, obviously, I was running a chiropractic practice full time. I couldn't do Speaker: 00:03:20 all the things, that I needed to do. And so I Speaker: 00:03:24 started helping people from the strategy, Speaker: 00:03:28 piece and and then all the back end related Speaker: 00:03:32 execution stuff. And so by accident, that turned into a separate Speaker: 00:03:35 business. Actually, I met my business partner, Speaker: 00:03:39 and you could probably appreciate this, Matthew. The, I tell Speaker: 00:03:43 people everything, almost everything good in my life tracks back to a Speaker: 00:03:46 podcast. Okay? Like, I did not meet my wife on a podcast, of course. Speaker: 00:03:51 Jordan Harbinger actually he's he runs Jordan Jordan Harbinger Speaker: 00:03:55 show. I think that he gets upwards of $10,000,000 a month. Did Speaker: 00:03:59 actually meet his wife through the podcast his podcast. Speaker: 00:04:04 And I think he told the story on my podcast at some point. But Speaker: 00:04:07 I did not meet my wife, but I did meet my business partner, Speaker: 00:04:11 through podcasting because he, John Corcoran, was early on the podcasting Speaker: 00:04:15 too. And I've met some best friends. I've Speaker: 00:04:19 gone to people's weddings. I've gone on family vacations with people I've met through the Speaker: 00:04:22 podcast. So that's kind of how it started, and, Speaker: 00:04:26 it took it took on a life of its own. Eventually, I Speaker: 00:04:30 exited the chiropractic business and focused full time on RISE Speaker: 00:04:33 twenty five, helping businesses with podcasts.

Speaker: 00:04:37 Excellent. I I love the the idea of all the good things that have happened Speaker: 00:04:40 happened, you know, through someone you met on a podcast. That's how we met. Right? Speaker: 00:04:44 I mean, that's really how we met. We met through a podcast client. Right? Very Speaker: 00:04:48 famously, there's a gentleman, Dave Jackson, the podcasting space who, you Speaker: 00:04:52 know, he would say because my podcast, and He would have people tell stories of, Speaker: 00:04:55 you know, amazing and great things that have happened to them because of because they Speaker: 00:04:58 had a podcast, and so I always love hearing about that. Speaker: 00:05:02 So RISE 25, you know, as we were getting ready to hit record and I Speaker: 00:05:06 was telling you, right, we added this and we can clean this up and all Speaker: 00:05:08 that stuff, and you said, whatever, you know, whatever we say, just let it out Speaker: 00:05:12 there, you know, the the least amount of work possible. And it's Speaker: 00:05:15 because your approach to podcasting, your approach to Speaker: 00:05:19 how businesses, how professionals can get the most out of podcasting, Speaker: 00:05:24 differs greatly from what is the mainstream focus. Speaker: 00:05:27 Right? For most podcasting, the mainstream focus is Speaker: 00:05:31 largest audience possible, whether that's to monetize that Speaker: 00:05:35 audience or whether it's to sell products to that audience, build Speaker: 00:05:38 your, you know, huge, audience space so you can do other things with Speaker: 00:05:42 them. And and we've talked about it on this show too plenty of times, and Speaker: 00:05:45 I've done it personally, but not all podcasters care about the audience. Speaker: 00:05:49 Sometimes the the real focus is really the other person on the microphone. Speaker: 00:05:52 So tell me a little bit about your approach to podcasting and Speaker: 00:05:56 how your clients and how you've seen that return on investment Speaker: 00:06:00 through this medium. Yeah. That's a great question. Speaker: 00:06:03 And, sometimes, Matthew, I don't even realize that not Speaker: 00:06:07 everyone thinks like this. I'm like, okay. This is normal. But Speaker: 00:06:11 the the first part of what you said, I believe, you know, the medium of Speaker: 00:06:15 podcasting is amazing because it's really an authentic conversation. Speaker: 00:06:19 And so that's why I was like, just keep it in. Like, Speaker: 00:06:23 I like I think when people have Speaker: 00:06:26 blemishes, they're vulnerable, or they say things that like, I've Speaker: 00:06:30 mispronounced my name on my podcast before. Like, how is that possible? Well, I just Speaker: 00:06:34 leave it all in because who cares? It's fine. Speaker: 00:06:37 Right? People make mistakes, and it's fine to leave it Speaker: 00:06:41 all in there. So I believe because, you know, some of our clients Speaker: 00:06:45 also, they they have they got to where they are because they have a perfectionist Speaker: 00:06:48 sometimes mentality and they want everything perfect. And Speaker: 00:06:52 and I'm similar. Right? But I've just learned Speaker: 00:06:56 to let it flow. It's it's fine. This medium is Speaker: 00:06:59 an authentic conversation. And then, yeah, what you said about the Speaker: 00:07:03 largest audience, we do have to and when I'm Speaker: 00:07:07 talking, I'm really talking from a b to b podcasting standpoint. Speaker: 00:07:11 Right? So, like, if someone has, like, a comedy podcast or a Speaker: 00:07:15 true crime podcast, they really do, a lot of times, need Speaker: 00:07:19 audience, to, you Speaker: 00:07:23 know, to kind of push their initiatives forward. But when Speaker: 00:07:27 I'm talking about, like, a b to b business and they Speaker: 00:07:31 probably have a larger client lifetime value, for Speaker: 00:07:34 me, the relationships are key. It's not about the audience. It's Speaker: 00:07:38 not about the quantity. It's about the quality. Right? So, like, Speaker: 00:07:42 if we're working with, you know, a b to b SaaS company Speaker: 00:07:46 that specializes in ecommerce, for instance. Right? As an example, Speaker: 00:07:50 if they get in front of a million people, yeah, they could probably sell ads Speaker: 00:07:53 or if they get in front of, like, 10,000 people or something. But for Speaker: 00:07:56 them, if they sell a software software and the average client Speaker: 00:08:00 lifetime value for them is $10.20, $30.40, Speaker: 00:08:03 $50,000, you know, they really just wanna get Speaker: 00:08:07 in front of the niche of ecommerce people. Right? So Speaker: 00:08:11 the audience, it's more of a quality than the Speaker: 00:08:15 quantity piece. And so you said it, you know, Speaker: 00:08:18 what we really talk about and think about is Speaker: 00:08:22 our relationships. And for me, the number one thing in Speaker: 00:08:26 my life is a way looking at ways how I can give to my best Speaker: 00:08:30 relationships. And you're the same. Right? I've found no better Speaker: 00:08:33 way to profile the people and companies I admire and Speaker: 00:08:37 share with the world what they're working on on my podcast, and I could form Speaker: 00:08:40 a deeper relationship. Like, after this, like, we've known each other, but we will have Speaker: 00:08:44 a deeper relationship after the show. We get to Speaker: 00:08:48 chitchat and talk, you know, for however long. Speaker: 00:08:51 Right? And so it's about relationships, and so that's the way I think about Speaker: 00:08:55 it. And, you know, we talk about kinda our five Speaker: 00:08:58 steps to profit with a podcast, and I'm talking about b to b podcast. Speaker: 00:09:02 And the first step of that,

process is Speaker: 00:09:05 really to create a dream two hundred. You know? And some people think of Speaker: 00:09:09 dream two hundred as, like, clients. Speaker: 00:09:14 We kind of think of it as, yeah, it could be clients, potential Speaker: 00:09:18 clients. It could also be strategic and referral partners. It could Speaker: 00:09:21 be big authorities in a specific space, arena. Like, if Speaker: 00:09:25 someone's in ecommerce or someone's in, you know, focus on dentists or Speaker: 00:09:29 someone focus on whatever genre they focus in on. And so Speaker: 00:09:32 that's kind of what we think about is all those amazing Speaker: 00:09:36 relationships in that specific niche that would be Speaker: 00:09:40 valuable to connect with, not only from, you know, Speaker: 00:09:43 obviously, you confer business back and forth, maybe, someone becomes Speaker: 00:09:47 a client, but also from a professional development standpoint. I've learned a lot Speaker: 00:09:51 in different industries that I've taken into my industry, Speaker: 00:09:55 from the podcast as well. So you Speaker: 00:09:59 say a a dream 200, and that doesn't always have to Speaker: 00:10:02 be your your target customers Speaker: 00:10:06 or your target clients. I I I don't know if I could come Speaker: 00:10:10 up with a dream 200. Like, where where does that list come from for a Speaker: 00:10:13 lot of people? Who you know, is it am I actually giving you specific Speaker: 00:10:17 names? Bob Smith, you know, Al Jensen, Speaker: 00:10:21 Jane Doe. Totally. Well, we we'll you know, the first Speaker: 00:10:25 stage when we work with someone is we help them develop that dream Speaker: 00:10:28 200, but I'll give you a few examples. Right? Now there's warm Speaker: 00:10:32 and there's cold. So I'll kinda separate them out. Right? So you have a lot Speaker: 00:10:35 of warm relationships over the past decade Speaker: 00:10:39 that, would fall into this category. Right? So we wanna Speaker: 00:10:43 explore those first, which is warm. But when we think of Speaker: 00:10:46 cold, I'll give you some examples. Right? There's some common Speaker: 00:10:50 trends that we see from, like, thinking of Dream 200 cold Speaker: 00:10:54 relationships. Right? So we think of who are, Speaker: 00:10:58 consultants consultants or practice management groups in your industry. Speaker: 00:11:02 Who are some trade associations, conferences, Speaker: 00:11:06 software people are using. Like, an example, like so I'll just say from the Speaker: 00:11:10 chiropractic niche. Let's say there was a digital agency Speaker: 00:11:14 and they focused on service professionals. And I know digital agencies Speaker: 00:11:18 that literally only focus on dentists or only focus on Speaker: 00:11:21 chiropractors. Right? Let's take the chiropractor niche. Well, there's, Speaker: 00:11:25 you know, a lot of practice management groups in the chiropractic Speaker: 00:11:29 industry, and these and I know because I've been a part of them. These practice Speaker: 00:11:33 management groups, people are paying a thousand a Speaker: 00:11:36 month. You know, they've been maybe paying 10,000 a year, Speaker: 00:11:40 20,000, 30 thousand. Right? They take their business seriously. Speaker: 00:11:44 Right? So if I could actually, Speaker: 00:11:48 you know, form relationships with some of these people who run these practice management Speaker: 00:11:52 groups, they have control of these Speaker: 00:11:55 reservoir of chiropractors. Right? And they I've, you Speaker: 00:11:59 know, I've seen people they could speak on stage at one of the conferences. They Speaker: 00:12:03 could do a webinar for them. There's all their ways they can collaborate. Right? So, Speaker: 00:12:07 we look at those categories to think of and brainstorm Speaker: 00:12:11 because most people in math here are like you. You're like, I don't know if Speaker: 00:12:13 I have I guarantee you, like, when I'm talking to someone, like, I don't someone Speaker: 00:12:17 has come to me, like, we only have we don't they were in oil and Speaker: 00:12:20 gas. We only have we know we only have Speaker: 00:12:23 232 potential clients in the space. Speaker: 00:12:27 Okay? Like, there's nothing else beyond that. And I'm like, Speaker: 00:12:31 okay. I'll play with you. I'll play along. Let's do Speaker: 00:12:34 this. Right? But once we got done with the process, we're like, okay. Speaker: 00:12:38 There's a lot more people in the space than maybe Speaker: 00:12:42 potential clients too. Right? So there's consultants in the Speaker: 00:12:46 oil and gas that don't do what this company does, you know, Speaker: 00:12:49 that has lots of clients in the space. So there's those are the categories Speaker: 00:12:53 we think about to kinda brainstorm under, to Speaker: 00:12:57 get that list of people, you know, in the in the Speaker: 00:13:01 industry or kind of the prefer. And so I Speaker: 00:13:04 imagine, right, you make this list of 200 people and the idea is to then Speaker: 00:13:08 see if these folks will come on, you know, be a guest on the podcast. Speaker: 00:13:13 But I'm guessing that being a guest on the podcast is Speaker: 00:13:16 like the smallest part of the puzzle. Speaker: 00:13:20 Right? Like, what is it actually what's actually gonna happen Speaker: 00:13:25 if I make this list of 200 and say the first ten people, you Speaker: 00:13:28 know, say yes? Like, where does it go from, great. You've been on the podcast. Speaker: 00:13:32 Now what? Yeah. So yeah. So the first step, Speaker: 00:13:36 obviously, create that dream 200. The second step is the Speaker: 00:13:39 outreach. People fail with the outreach. Right? Like, you said, Speaker: 00:13:44 okay. They come on. Some

people are caught up in, well, I don't Speaker: 00:13:48 even know how to reach out. I don't know what to say. Right? So the Speaker: 00:13:51 outreach piece is the next piece typically, and Speaker: 00:13:55 it has to be a nicely copywritten message, right, with social proof and Speaker: 00:13:59 other elements. So let's assume, like you said, they say yes. Alright. They Speaker: 00:14:03 come on. Now it's, we get Speaker: 00:14:06 into the questions typically, and you get this question a lot, I'm sure, too, which Speaker: 00:14:10 is, okay. How do I produce amazing content? What's, like, the Speaker: 00:14:13 technology setup? They get caught up in the technology setup. Right? Speaker: 00:14:17 And, so they're comfortable once a person comes Speaker: 00:14:21 on and, like, you're using Riverside. I, you Speaker: 00:14:24 know, I use Zoom simply back whenever Speaker: 00:14:28 I started over fifteen years ago, there was no Zoom or Riverside. So Speaker: 00:14:32 I think I was using Skype video at the time and coaching people on how Speaker: 00:14:36 to set up on their computer. But there's a lot of options. Right? There's StreamYard. Speaker: 00:14:39 There's Riverside. There's Zoom. I I honestly don't care what people use Speaker: 00:14:43 as long as they're comfortable with it and it's an easy experience for the for Speaker: 00:14:47 the guest. And then obviously a mic setup. Right? I'm Speaker: 00:14:50 using a a Yeti, Blue Yeti. What do you use? That looks like a nice Speaker: 00:14:54 mic. Is that a Rode? What is that? No. It's an Electrovoice RE 20. Speaker: 00:14:57 Okay. It's a old mic I got from my old Wall Street Journal Speaker: 00:15:01 radio. It looks nice. You know, you could get one. Speaker: 00:15:05 You know, I think I have an ATR 2,100 over there. It's like a hundred Speaker: 00:15:08 bucks you can get get one. So once you have someone on, you're comfortable with Speaker: 00:15:12 the setup, it's professional. You know, really, for me, Speaker: 00:15:15 it's having a great conversation, and being Speaker: 00:15:19 curious. Right? So the content piece and what's in the content, Speaker: 00:15:23 and how the interview goes is is paramount because you want the person Speaker: 00:15:27 leaving being like, you know, that Matthew's awesome. That was fun. Speaker: 00:15:31 That was fun to talk to, ask good questions. And so, Speaker: 00:15:35 it's the content piece, right, which is, you know, Speaker: 00:15:39 just being curious. I tell people I kinda again, they're they have Speaker: 00:15:43 a they're all in their own head around this stuff, which is, oh my god. Speaker: 00:15:46 I'm interviewing someone. Like, you know, you and I are used to this, and we Speaker: 00:15:49 just have conversations. But some people aren't. They just show up and they're nervous. I Speaker: 00:15:53 had a really successful lady who grew, Speaker:

00:15:57 you know, her business to, like, 60 locations. And, you Speaker: 00:16:01 know, I was shocked of, you know, that she was a little Speaker: 00:16:04 nervous for the interview part. Right? And so just making him feel comfortable Speaker: 00:16:08 in in having that conversation. Right? Now afterwards, Speaker: 00:16:12 like, the way I think of it broadly is how do I give Speaker: 00:16:16 as much as humanly possible for this person? Right? Speaker: 00:16:20 Because it's not about it's this is gonna sound weird, Matthew. Okay? Speaker: 00:16:24 I don't have someone on my show to get a Speaker: 00:16:27 client. I don't have show someone on my show to get a partner. Speaker: 00:16:31 Okay? What I do have someone on my show is my goal is to actually Speaker: 00:16:34 get them a client or to get them a partner, introduce them. Speaker: 00:16:38 Now if it's someone like we are talking, we help a lot of people in Speaker: 00:16:42 the b to b SaaS business, a lot of people in in in agency Speaker: 00:16:45 space, in manufacturing, in b two b, you know, type of Speaker: 00:16:49 space. I know if they're, you know, in the market or they Speaker: 00:16:52 know someone and if I have a SaaS founder on, it's more to make an Speaker: 00:16:56 introduction to them who could be a maybe a client or a partner. Speaker: 00:17:00 And that's my goal. Right? Because I'm just trying to give to them. I profile Speaker: 00:17:04 them. Obviously, the episode comes out. And so, like, I'm looking Speaker: 00:17:07 for those touch points of how I can give to that individual and further the Speaker: 00:17:11 relationship. Right? Because it's not, for me, it's not transactional. Speaker: 00:17:15 I'm not there. Obviously, if we do business together, awesome. Speaker: 00:17:19 But, my main goal is to just have those touch Speaker: 00:17:23 points and those gives. And the for me, one of the biggest touch points is Speaker: 00:17:26 obviously we we record the episode, then we push it out, as Speaker: 00:17:30 a separate blog post. Then we'll do a snippet of it, push it out on Speaker: 00:17:34 social. And we may do multiple snippets of it and push it out over social Speaker: 00:17:38 over a month, six months, a year. Then I'm looking at who I can Speaker: 00:17:41 introduce them to. Right? And so those touch points, and then if Speaker: 00:17:45 I'm in the area, like we talked about, I said, Matthew, if you're in Chicago, Speaker: 00:17:49 let me know. You know, like, if we're in the same city, I tell them Speaker: 00:17:52 and people do come through Chicago. So they're they'll contact me, like, Speaker: 00:17:56 hey. I'm here, and we'll maybe go to dinner or I'll get a group of Speaker: 00:17:59 entrepreneurs and go to dinner. I was just in Miami, Speaker: 00:18:03 for, an event, and I put together 50 Speaker: 00:18:07 entrepreneurs, and we did a networking at a brewery.

Speaker: 00:18:10 And these like, there was a bunch who were past podcast guests who I just Speaker: 00:18:14 reached out to and we actually touched you know, we're able to get that touch Speaker: 00:18:18 point in person and meet in person. So it goes beyond the like, Speaker: 00:18:21 you're saying, what do you do? Now, obviously, I make it Speaker: 00:18:25 known. They know what I do. Like, I don't need to, like, shove it in Speaker: 00:18:28 their face. You know? So they know what I do at that point, Speaker: 00:18:31 and it I kinda let it naturally flow. Not everyone's like that, but Speaker: 00:18:35 I that's just my my philosophy. It so you Speaker: 00:18:39 really are playing a long game. And and I don't mean to use game Speaker: 00:18:43 like this isn't a joke. Right? This is you you're not being inauthentic Speaker: 00:18:47 when you do these things, but, you know, that that's the language that we use Speaker: 00:18:50 to describe this. So this isn't about a short term return. Right? Speaker: 00:18:54 I'm not hiring RISE twenty five because I need to, you know, increase sales Speaker: 00:18:58 by 200,000 percent over the next twelve weeks, and, you Speaker: 00:19:01 guys are promising me that. This is how to Speaker: 00:19:05 grow and expand your network and community, Speaker: 00:19:09 which will eventually lead to more success and more Speaker: 00:19:13 opportunities down the road. That's totally fair to say. Speaker: 00:19:16 Yeah. So I'm curious then. So Speaker: 00:19:20 you've been doing this for quite some time now. Right? This isn't Speaker: 00:19:24 a a new thing for you. You've seen changes in podcasting. Speaker: 00:19:28 Has any of the changes in podcasting really changed your approach Speaker: 00:19:31 or your strategy, or or is it fairly constant Speaker: 00:19:35 because it's less about the technical Speaker: 00:19:38 nature of podcasting and more just about this is a Speaker: 00:19:42 great way to network and grow and Speaker: 00:19:46 meet people? Yeah. A %. Yeah. It it it, it's a Speaker: 00:19:50 good question. I can't say it has changed Speaker: 00:19:54 anything. I think it it, for Speaker: 00:19:57 for in in some respects, it's actually accelerated that thought process. You Speaker: 00:20:01 know? I remember, you know, what during COVID, people couldn't meet Speaker: 00:20:05 in person, and they were trying to find ways, which I Speaker: 00:20:09 think, you know, to you and me, it seemed pretty obvious. Like Speaker: 00:20:13 but people not everyone was using Zoom. Not everyone Speaker: 00:20:16 was using virtual meetings as frequently, as I Speaker: 00:20:20 was or you were. And so it some for some people, it's a Speaker: 00:20:24 novel concept. Like, they depended on networking groups in Speaker: 00:20:27 person. They depended on events in person, and they needed to find a Speaker: 00:20:31 way to

really connect with people outside of that. So I Speaker: 00:20:35 think what I found, that COVID really Speaker: 00:20:38 accelerated that process and people were open and Speaker: 00:20:42 using those mediums, the the virtual mediums Speaker: 00:20:45 to actually connect. And we got a flood of people like, okay. I can't Speaker: 00:20:49 do all the stuff I was normally doing in person. What do I do? Speaker: 00:20:53 And so it was just the same stuff that we Speaker: 00:20:56 were, doing ourselves and and helping Speaker: 00:21:00 our clients do as well. Have you ever seen Speaker: 00:21:04 this not work? And if Speaker: 00:21:08 so, what was it that Speaker: 00:21:11 was not that I'm questioning the strategy, but maybe Speaker: 00:21:15 the the the person who was executing it. Right? Like, you guys have a game Speaker: 00:21:18 plan. You've seen it work. You've you've got the case studies. Right? You've got the Speaker: 00:21:22 proof. But I'm sure somebody came along, was like, I wanna do this. It didn't Speaker: 00:21:25 work. And, you know, I'm sure they've tried to blame you, but you're like, here's Speaker: 00:21:28 what really happened. Have you seen it? Oh, that's funny. Speaker: 00:21:33 No. No one ever blames no. Of course. Yeah. Speaker: 00:21:39 The way I think of it, Matthew, is that it's an if, Speaker: 00:21:43 it's a it's a when, not if. Okay? So, Speaker: 00:21:47 what I mean by that is, Speaker: 00:21:51 one, you know, when does it not work? Well, Speaker: 00:21:55 you're you're you're gonna hear my opinion here. When when someone's not as Speaker: 00:21:58 coachable, it doesn't work. When they there are certain elements that we want Speaker: 00:22:02 them to do, within the interview, before the Speaker: 00:22:06 interview, and the reach out. And so Speaker: 00:22:10 the when it doesn't work is they're not Speaker: 00:22:13 reaching out to the right people. One. Okay. So we're talking about the Speaker: 00:22:17 dream 200. People get, Speaker: 00:22:21 there's there's a little bit I I don't know if ego is too strong a Speaker: 00:22:24 word. I don't mean it in a negative sense, but, like, people are going after, Speaker: 00:22:28 like, big names, okay, in whatever Speaker: 00:22:32 industry or in all industries. Right? And they're focused on big Speaker: 00:22:36 names. What I have found with big names Speaker: 00:22:40 is what happens, they Speaker: 00:22:45 usually, people are like, oh, they have a big audience or big name. I find Speaker: 00:22:49 that the smaller the the guests who have smaller followings who aren't Speaker: 00:22:52 as big, quote, unquote, whatever big means, actually promote the Speaker: 00:22:56 episode more, get more views. And you're I see you nodding Speaker: 00:23:00 here because you you you can relate to this. When people just go after big Speaker: 00:23:04 name after big name after big name, they think it's going Speaker: 00:23:07 to result in all this audience and all these downloads, Speaker: 00:23:11 and that person's probably been on 30 other shows. Right? And Speaker: 00:23:15 they're probably not they're just busy. They're not gonna take the time to promote the Speaker: 00:23:19 episode like someone else would. So I see people Speaker: 00:23:22 going after and that that is one category. Like, when I think Speaker: 00:23:26 of five types of categories of types of guests or types of Speaker: 00:23:29 episodes, that is a a an important one to have Speaker: 00:23:33 authorities, big authorities. But they don't have to be like, a Speaker: 00:23:37 household name. They could just be a specific niche. Speaker: 00:23:40 Okay? I remember someone mentioned, Speaker: 00:23:45 the godfather of HR, Matthew, okay, on the on my Speaker: 00:23:48 podcast. Okay? And I was like, oh, who's the godfather of HR? Speaker: 00:23:52 Right? I've never heard of this person. And the thing is, in the HR Speaker: 00:23:56 community, people have heard of the person. But outside of it, Speaker: 00:24:00 they didn't. So it was interesting because, Speaker: 00:24:05 you know, having that person on was a big authority in certain Speaker: 00:24:08 spaces, but, you know, the thing is, Speaker: 00:24:13 they weren't like this huge name. I don't even know. Speaker: 00:24:17 Well, you know, to give an example, I don't know if Speaker: 00:24:20 someone is like Tony Robbins or something. Right? And, like, you know, Tony Speaker: 00:24:24 Robbins would be an amazing guest to have. I I love his stuff. Speaker: 00:24:27 I'm sure he I don't know if he's really gonna promote the episode afterwards because Speaker: 00:24:31 he's so busy. But, I had, Dave Ulrich Speaker: 00:24:34 on. Right? Who is someone called him Speaker: 00:24:38 the the godfather of HR. He had on he was Speaker: 00:24:42 super nice. So focusing on the wrong types of guests Speaker: 00:24:46 too much, I think, is a mistake I see people make. Speaker: 00:24:51 I see people, you know, kinda being a perfectionist. Speaker: 00:24:55 So they need to have everything perfect, for Speaker: 00:24:59 the show. So they're not reaching out enough to their Speaker: 00:25:03 network of people. They're really kind of, not doing Speaker: 00:25:06 as many episodes as they should. Right? Because in the end, Speaker: 00:25:10 if I if I have and I release, like, two to three episodes a week. Speaker: 00:25:14 Okay? And I have for probably a decade. Speaker: 00:25:18 If I have a hundred to a 50 people on my show, Speaker: 00:25:22 a hundred, you know, 50 relationships this year that I build further, Speaker: 00:25:26 you know, not all of them are gonna become partners or we're Speaker: 00:25:30 gonna form a deep relationship. Let's say 10% only do. Right? So we're Speaker: 00:25:34 only

talking, like, 10 people. Well, someone's like, well, I'm gonna Speaker: 00:25:38 just do one a month, one episode a month. Well, Speaker: 00:25:41 that's 12 people. Right? So how many Speaker: 00:25:45 relationships are you building and furthering? Speaker: 00:25:48 You know, there's just less of a chance. Right? Now they'll Speaker: 00:25:52 they'll do the same in ten years that I will in one year. Speaker: 00:25:56 Okay? And so for me, it's a it's Speaker: 00:26:00 a it's a when. It's not an if situation. If they're Speaker: 00:26:03 focused on the right people, if they have, you know, the Speaker: 00:26:07 number of people that they're they're doing and then focused on the wrong Speaker: 00:26:11 things. Like, you mentioned the the metrics. Right? If someone Speaker: 00:26:14 I haven't looked at my metrics in I don't even Speaker: 00:26:18 know how long, nine years or something. Like, I have no idea what the metrics Speaker: 00:26:22 are but if someone's focused on the metrics, which is, in my opinion, Speaker: 00:26:26 vanity metrics, which is like how many likes did I get, how Speaker: 00:26:29 many views did I get. I'm looking at the relationship metrics like Speaker: 00:26:33 how many amazing relationships have I formed this past year from the Speaker: 00:26:37 podcast? So I think it's focusing on the wrong Speaker: 00:26:41 metrics, which is like audience or downloads Speaker: 00:26:45 or, you know, all of those things. And that's where I see people fail Speaker: 00:26:49 because, like, it it's they're never gonna have and someone said this Speaker: 00:26:53 I was listening to a podcast the other day. They said this perfectly. They go, Speaker: 00:26:56 no matter what my metrics are, I'm not gonna be happy. This is what the Speaker: 00:27:00 person said. They go, if I have a hundred listeners, I'm like, I want 200. Speaker: 00:27:03 If I have 10,000 listeners, I want 15,000. If I want Speaker: 00:27:06 20,000, you know, so those Speaker: 00:27:10 aren't the metrics that I look at. And so if someone's Speaker: 00:27:14 measuring their success on those metrics, Speaker: 00:27:18 it's gonna be very hard to be satisfied with that. Speaker: 00:27:21 Well, and we we know metrics can be gained too because there are people who Speaker: 00:27:25 are popping into our LinkedIn inboxes and Facebook who are saying, Speaker: 00:27:29 you know, I'll sell you 20,000 downloads. I'll say this. Nobody ever pops in your Speaker: 00:27:32 inbox saying, I will sell you 10 genuine relationships with people in your Speaker: 00:27:36 industry that are gonna make your life better. So, you know, that's, that's not a Speaker: 00:27:40 real product. And, you know, going back to your point about getting these bigger names, Speaker: 00:27:43 right, the Tony Robbins, everybody wants a Elon Musk or a Tim Cook on their Speaker: 00:27:47 show, I agree with you. One,

these big name Speaker: 00:27:50 guests, they're not going to lead to long Speaker: 00:27:54 term sustainable audience growth. One, because that person Speaker: 00:27:58 probably isn't going to share it and, you Speaker: 00:28:02 know, talk about it in a genuine way that would actually lead to that Speaker: 00:28:06 kind of growth you're looking for. Maybe their publicist or their social seems like, oh, Speaker: 00:28:09 yeah. We were on the show. Yay. But more importantly, Speaker: 00:28:13 if if you get a Elon Musk on your show, Speaker: 00:28:17 you're going to get a huge number of people who are fans of Speaker: 00:28:20 Elon Musk. Right? They are going to track him from this podcast to Speaker: 00:28:24 this podcast to this podcast, and maybe, Speaker: 00:28:28 maybe you shave a few of those off to become regular listeners of Speaker: 00:28:31 yours, but they didn't come to your show for you. They came for Speaker: 00:28:35 him. And so I agree. Finding the Speaker: 00:28:39 right guest, the right guest that provide the value to your audience Speaker: 00:28:43 is way more important than finding the person with the most followers, the Speaker: 00:28:47 biggest name. Right? All all those vanity metrics that at the end Speaker: 00:28:51 of the day, that is just quantity and not quality for Speaker: 00:28:54 both you and for your audience. I mean, there is a Speaker: 00:28:59 so real quick. I just wanna piggyback on that, Matthew. I agree with Speaker: 00:29:02 that. I think that there is a place for those Speaker: 00:29:06 type of guests, like, a big authorities, Speaker: 00:29:10 you know, but the place for me is like, I've had the cofounder of Speaker: 00:29:13 Pixar and Atari and p ninety x and RXBAR and Quest Speaker: 00:29:17 Nutrition. The point of those is it's like when Speaker: 00:29:21 I'm reaching out, let's say I'm in the manufacturing space, if I reach out to Speaker: 00:29:24 a president of a manufacturing company, it's more from a social proof Speaker: 00:29:28 perspective. Right? I don't need dozens of Speaker: 00:29:31 these. Right? I need a couple that are like, oh, damn. This Speaker: 00:29:35 person's legit. Look at some of the guests he's had on, and Speaker: 00:29:38 it legitimizes it in a sense. So I think there is a Speaker: 00:29:42 place for those but not from, like, a gaining audience perspective, more from, Speaker: 00:29:46 like, a building more relationship from that space perspective. True. Speaker: 00:29:50 Yeah. Then, you know, again, also in a vanity perspective. Scarcity is available. There is Speaker: 00:29:53 some vanity. There's a social proof. There's social proof. No doubt. Right. Speaker: 00:29:57 Right. The big Tony Robbins Elon Musk will do more for your Speaker: 00:30:01 ego, vanity, you know, your, your Speaker: 00:30:05 marketing than it will for actual quality, audience growth, I I Speaker: 00:30:08 would say, in the long term, in most cases. Some people will do it well, Speaker: 00:30:11 most of us will not. As a reminder, we are chatting with Jeremy Speaker: 00:30:15 Weiss, cofounder of RISE twenty five. You can learn more at Speaker: 00:30:18 inspiredinsider.com. Jeremy, I have a feeling we could talk about this Speaker: 00:30:22 for four days if, we have the time, but, you know, you have lots Speaker: 00:30:26 of folks to meet and and, you know, build relationships with. I've got three Speaker: 00:30:29 last questions I wanna ask before we let you go. The first is, you know, Speaker: 00:30:32 since you have such a unique perspective on this space, I'm curious if there's any Speaker: 00:30:36 place where you would like to see additional improvement in podcasting, Speaker: 00:30:40 something that you're just like, god, I wish we as an industry did this better. Speaker: 00:30:45 You know, I I think, you know, you were mentioning Speaker: 00:30:48 this, subscribers download, those things Speaker: 00:30:52 is kind of like a black box. Right? You can't there's no visibility Speaker: 00:30:56 into that. Like, when you look at YouTube, right, Speaker: 00:31:00 you can go and see how many views are worth. There's, like, complete visibility Speaker: 00:31:04 there. Right? I find that I don't know if you get these Speaker: 00:31:08 these messages go, I'm a top 1% podcast. I have x Speaker: 00:31:11 number of down I can't prove or disprove any of those statements, what what Speaker: 00:31:15 people say. I think the metrics Speaker: 00:31:18 piece is, there's just not Speaker: 00:31:22 that same visibility, from Speaker: 00:31:26 that perspective. And and the thing is I don't even care about metrics in general Speaker: 00:31:30 personally, but people I think I've seen Speaker: 00:31:33 them like, I know from behind the Speaker: 00:31:37 scenes, they aren't huge and they're telling people, like, how big Speaker: 00:31:41 they are and how many downloads. So there isn't, like, a visibility Speaker: 00:31:44 there. Yeah. It'd be nice if Speaker: 00:31:48 if not only could it'd be nice to be able to Speaker: 00:31:51 verify people's stats. Right? You go to YouTube, you see views, you see subscribers. Speaker: 00:31:56 Podcast, it's if I share it, great. And also, Speaker: 00:32:00 you have to trust the one I'm sharing is true because it Speaker: 00:32:03 would not be beyond the reasonable doubt for people to lie about their podcast. That's Speaker: 00:32:07 not what it is. Yeah. I've I've seen it. Speaker: 00:32:11 Yeah. Is there any tech on your wish list? Speaker: 00:32:15 Again, you're not a podcasting perfectionist, but, Speaker: 00:32:19 you know, is there, is there a device or software that you're like, god, I Speaker: 00:32:22 I've been waiting in my hands on this or maybe more importantly, Speaker: 00:32:26 there was

something that, you're like, man, I need somebody to make this to make Speaker: 00:32:30 my life easier. You know, there could be Speaker: 00:32:33 this, and I don't even know it. Matthew, so you'll you'll tell me if there Speaker: 00:32:37 is. Because I know there are companies that do Speaker: 00:32:41 this, but I just haven't really explored it that much. Speaker: 00:32:46 I know that, like, I've talked to people and Speaker: 00:32:51 sponsoring is kind of fragmented. Right? So, like, Speaker: 00:32:55 if, there's only certain companies, Speaker: 00:33:00 and I know there's a couple, I'm blanking on the name that actually Speaker: 00:33:04 sold to a larger company, but, Speaker: 00:33:07 something for, like, smaller shows that they can Speaker: 00:33:11 get and do either exchange or pay to, Speaker: 00:33:15 you know, sponsor on each other's podcasts. Speaker: 00:33:19 I know there's some companies out there, but I don't know. Usually, Speaker: 00:33:23 what I've seen is they're just larger companies that are on there that Speaker: 00:33:27 will sponsor, and they're not so much focused Speaker: 00:33:31 on the quality. They're it's more just based on the numbers. Like, oh, we're paying Speaker: 00:33:34 x number of 10,000 downloads or something like Speaker: 00:33:37 that. So Yeah. That that stuff does exist out there. I I Speaker: 00:33:41 can't remember the name of them right now, but there have been a few of Speaker: 00:33:44 those. Some of them have been acquired and, you know, Speaker: 00:33:47 changed. And some of them, I think they wanna do exactly what you say, Speaker: 00:33:51 but they run into the problem that we just talked about, which is, oh, you Speaker: 00:33:55 know, I wanna promote my show with this other person. This person claims they get Speaker: 00:33:58 15,000 downloads, but, you know, Speaker: 00:34:02 when push came to shove, they were getting 20. Right? So it it Speaker: 00:34:06 it there was trust issues there, but I I agree that would be nice to Speaker: 00:34:09 have a a good platform like that. Lastly, are there any podcasts on Speaker: 00:34:13 your playlist that you have to listen to? Any that, Speaker: 00:34:17 you know, you just you won't let an episode of the show go by, Speaker: 00:34:21 or if you a new episode comes out, you're stopping what you're doing and listening Speaker: 00:34:24 to that instead? It's funny. Speaker: 00:34:28 I listen to everything on YouTube. So and, usually, Speaker: 00:34:32 I'm listening to it because I'm researching guests. Right? And Speaker: 00:34:35 so I'm listening to a lot of different types of podcasts. So I do Speaker: 00:34:39 I have listened to, Jason Swank's podcast. He Speaker: 00:34:43 specializes in digital agencies. I may have Speaker: 00:34:47 listened to, I'll admit it to you. I don't know if I'll admit it to Speaker: 00:34:50 him. His head will get big. But maybe, like, 350 or so Speaker: 00:34:54 episodes of his show. He's been doing it for a long time. I listen Speaker: 00:34:57 to John Corcoran's show, Smart Business Revolution. I Speaker: 00:35:01 listen to Jordan Harbinger's show. He's got a lot of really Speaker: 00:35:05 interesting guests. He does a lot of research, as well for Speaker: 00:35:08 his show, and just whatever Speaker: 00:35:12 else, when I'm researching, I'll stumble across Speaker: 00:35:16 other specific niche. So I'm looking more for like, at the guest Speaker: 00:35:19 than the show. So if I'm like, okay. I'm researching top Speaker: 00:35:23 people in, you know, agency space, I'll I'll Speaker: 00:35:27 research that and, listen to a couple episodes. Speaker: 00:35:31 Right. Very good. Well, once again, we have been Speaker: 00:35:35 chatting with Jeremy Weiss. He's the cofounder of Rise twenty Speaker: 00:35:39 five Media. You can learn more about them at Speaker: 00:35:41 inspiredinsider.com. And, Speaker: 00:35:44 yes, if you're someone out there who is thinking about how do I really use Speaker: 00:35:48 podcasting to grow my influence, Speaker: 00:35:52 grow my network, grow just me as a person, and then see Speaker: 00:35:55 where that can lead you. I I cannot stress that Speaker: 00:35:59 Jeremy's, firm is a great place to start with that with that question. Speaker: 00:36:03 So, Jeremy, good to see you. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for Speaker: 00:36:06 having me. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. Speaker: 00:36:11 There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest Speaker: 00:36:14 content and Speaker: 00:36:16 tech.com. Speaker: 00:36:21 You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on Speaker: 00:36:24 social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks, and Speaker: 00:36:28 we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.