התמלול המלא של Special Wireside Chat Webinar: Graduate Study in Creative Writing

see Jacob and I taking these very separate routes and the ways in which our writing backgrounds have helped us, across the years, leading us to where we are today, and who knows where we'll be tomorrow. JACOB POWERS: Yes, that's right. I mean, the reason why we wanted to share this was not just because we wanted to brag about our experiences… [PAUL WITCOVER AND JACOB POWERS CHUCKLING] PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, a little bit. JACOB POWERS:…and whatnot, but to actually show that, like a little bit. There's quite a divergent path on how we got to where we ended up, and that's something we want to stress to all of our students. [00:07:02.690] No matter what degree you're pursuing and stuff, there will be opportunities that arise that you should take, especially when it comes to exploring creative writing, serving as editors, working with other writers, serving as consultants, looking for additional teaching opportunities, whether they're face-to-face or online. But the point of it is that there is no magic silver bullet that will get you where you want to go. It is a journey and, you know, keep an open mind and pursue it the way that you want to pursue it. So, with that in mind, we want to talk about a couple of the similarities and then the differences about these two programs that we offer here at SNHU. So that can kind of give you an idea of maybe where you want to go from where you are right now. So, similarity-wise both the MA and MFA in creative writing offer writing-intensive courses. [00:07:59.140] That is the key component of both of these programs. You're going to be writing, and you're gonna be writing quite a bit, more so in the MFA. But, in both cases, you are writing something more than, you know, a three-part collection of short stories or something, you're writing something much more robust. For the MFA, it is a novel. For the MA, it's the start of a novel. You might get to the end, but it's not a requirement to write the entire novel in the MA. But we also have a couple of other concentrations and stuff that I'll talk about when we talk about the differences and stuff. We also offer both programs also offer peer workshops, which, if you are taking BA courses in creative writing here, you are familiar with them, where you share your work with your fellow peers and receive feedback from them, in addition to, of course, your instructors. [00:08:52.619] And so both programs also offer the fiction concentrations. And they both offer courses that are a requirement of the degree, either one, which is English 670, which is a course in teaching analytical writing, and you create lesson plans and so on and so forth. There's also English 675, which is a first-year writing TAship opportunity that is application-based. It is very limited in how many folks can get in, year over year, and it only runs once a year, maybe twice at most, just because the way that the undergraduate courses aligned with the graduate courses here at SNHU. But it is a nice

opportunity if you wanna kind of get a little experience with the teaching assistantship as well, and both programs have opportunities for students passionate about creating. [00:09:45.940] As you'll see, many of these, many of the folks who are in the MA and MFA programs are here for a reason, and that is to write. If you're coming into the programs for anything other than that, I'm not sure why [PAUL WITCOVER AND JACOB POWERS CHUCKLING], cause it they are, I mean, it's creative writing. So you're, you should know why you're here. Both programs also offer time to create writing habits that are applicable to a busy lifestyle schedule. That is kind of one of the mantras of SNHU and the courses that we offer here. It's not a come to a brick and mortar classroom three to four times a week while balancing work life and family life, and all of these other obligations and stuff. It is an asynchronous learning opportunity where you can pursue writing on your own time, but also making sure that you're making and meeting deadlines that are given to you week over week as well. [00:10:39.919] Both programs also offer tips and strategies on how to publish and how to be represented, and how to create a platform for yourself. And both also offer reading series events or things of that nature, including pitch events that are kind of a part of the Word For Word reading series, specifically for fiction and nonfiction students who might wish to pitch their novel or their writing to an agent in real time, and you know, get some experience with that as well. For those who are not familiar with our Word For Word reading series, we have it usually during the traditional school year starting in fall all the way into May. [00:11:24.460] JACOB POWERS: Every month, we host a reader or readers, sometimes students also, depending on the time of year, in addition to publishers and folks from the industry to share knowledge and tips, and strategies on how to write, how to represent oneself, and how to just basically get out there. So yeah, those are the programs’ similarities. I can turn it over to Paul if you want to do the differences, or… PAUL WITCOVER: Sure JACOB POWERS: Okay. Alright. PAUL WITCOVER: So there are some differences between these two programs, not exactly the same, despite their similarities. So the MA is kind of more focused on what I would call, you know, like a literary track or a literature track. [00:12:12.030] The study of literature as a subject unto itself, such as you might, you know, you might find like elements of literary analysis and things like that that you don't find in the MFA. The MA, it is you know, traditionally can be thought of as a degree that can lead you to a higher degree, yet, which is the PhD. It's a stepping stone, whereas the MFA is a terminal degree in its own right. The MA offers opportunities to explore your writing interests across a variety of genres—fiction, nonfiction, screenwriting, and poetry. MFA doesn't do that. We

are focused on genre fiction. And, it also offers you the ability to practice and strengthen your craft while applying to MFA programs. [00:13:07.190] The MFA, unlike a lot of other courses at SNHU, including the MA, is a program that requires you to apply and be accepted into. And sometimes people apply for the MFA and are not accepted on their first application. Well, some never are accepted. But some are, some, let's say, apply, and they're rejected for their first application, they go into the MA. And they, kind of, you know, refine their literary skills, their writing skills, they level up a little bit, through what the MA has to offer, and then they crosswalk into the MFA. That is a good approach for people that are interested in the MFA as like, you know, as a terminal degree for reasons we'll get into in a minute. [00:14:00.859] So the MFA, like I mentioned, focuses on fiction subgenres and the specifically speculative fiction, romance, young adult, and contemporary fiction. We offer a business track in addition to the fiction track, and that is, that features courses on publishing, writer's platform, freelance works such as editing, may give information about agents and agenting. And we also have literary events, like Wireside Chat, which this is a special edition of. Usually, Wireside Chat features interviews and discussions with instructors in the MFA program who are all published writers, graduates, alumni of the MFA program who have gone on to publish. [00:14:52.719] PAUL WITCOVER: And a variety of other events, like, for example, on Thursday, or actually it's on Wednesday, there's an open mic night. I have one of those at the end of every term. One instructor reads for five minutes, and then four students are randomly selected from a pool of applicants to read also their works in progress for five minutes. A really fun night. And we have other events like that that take place as well. Okay. Move on to the next slide. JACOB POWERS: All right. So, yeah, Paul talked about this briefly in the previous slide, the degree title differences between these two. An MA is a Master in Arts. It's not a terminal degree. Students can continue to pursue their education after earning an MA with a PhD. [00:15:45.299] There's not a ton of them out there, but there are a few PhD creative writing programs out there that students will often pursue after earning an MA. If not that, you can, of course, apply to PhD and other and other, disciplines as well. It's just that you have to, you know, be well-versed in whatever it is you're applying to and stuff, and meet the requirements of that particular institution. But it is a stepping stone, as Paul said. You can, with an MA, tutor an adjunct in some places. I had several friends, in fact, folks who work here at SNHU, have an MA in literature or creative writing, and they will teach the first-year composition courses and stuff. So you can tutor an adjunct in some places. [00:16:36.330] It's often contractual or term-over-term. So it just depends on how many people are available to be taking those courses, how many students there are, how many people are able to teach the course, those types of things are all factored in, depending on the institution in which you are working for and stuff. But there is that opportunity out there to teach or tutor. There are also publishing, tutoring, teaching, and other professional experiences that can offer more career opportunities. Again, going back to what I was, kind of highlighting with my personal journey and stuff, I had many, many friends who were writing consultants who are not even creative writing or literature students, I mean, they were in all different types of degrees. [00:17:23.530] JACOB POWERS: But you know, one of the things that you can do with it, with a, with an MA degree, is that you can pursue other opportunities similar to what I did, like tutoring, if they're locally, if you have opportunities like that. You can apply to editing or reading positions at literary magazines. It's not that the MA is less opportunities. It's just that you have to kind of pursue them more so to build up that repertoire and stuff, as opposed to an MFA, which, Paul, did you want to talk about, kind of? PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, I could. JACOB POWERS: Yeah. PAUL WITCOVER: I could talk about that a little bit. So the MFA, like I mentioned before, is a terminal degree, which, just like a PhD, that means like that's as far as you can go. There's nothing after that. [00:18:12.310] You gotta get out and get a job. Same with the MFA. That's it. Now, that's not 100% true, I mean, an MFA is a master's degree, just like an MA is. So, I mean, some PhD programs would accept an MFA as a precursor. Not all, oddly enough. Some do insist on an MA because they are different degrees. It's not just, you know, two degrees that have different initials, you know. They encompass different things. With an MFA, you can tutor, you can adjunct, and you know, you can like it says here, contractual term-over-term, that just means you're an adjunct there for, at the pleasure of your employer, more or less. [00:19:05.979] And you can teach at the university level, at the post-secondary level with an MFA. Now, I don't have an MFA. I have an MA. And that's something that we should mention, too. Normally, having an MA would not have been enough to get me a job teaching. It would have been enough to get me a job as an adjunct at SNHU, but it would not have been enough to get me a job as a Dean at SNHU. So how did I get a job as a Dean, and not only that job as a dean, but the Dean of the MFA program? Seems kind of weird. It seems like I should be the Dean of Jacob's program, and he should be the Dean of my program, and maybe they'll [LAUGHING] realize that and switch us around someday. But the reason that I got this job when it came open is because in addition to my MA, I've published seven novels. [00:19:59.150] So, and I mean

traditionally published those novels, they're not self-published. So that is a kind of a loophole that you might wanna think about if you're interested in getting an MA. If you have a substantial publication record, that, plus an MA degree, will open a lot of doors that normally only open for MFA people. And even having an MFA itself is not sufficient these days to get like a tenure-track job at a university. You still need to have a publishing record, an established record of publication. So, really, that's the big equalizer between an MA and an MFA. [00:20:45.229] If you've got a substantial publication record, you know, if you want to teach creative writing, and you've published three or four novels by, you know, one of the big five publishers, nobody's gonna care if you have an MA or an MFA. It won't matter. You gotta have one, but it won't, won't really matter which. You'll be seriously considered as a candidate wherever you apply. [PAUSE] Here's the program pathways for the MFA. And like I mentioned, we have like kind of this business track and this fiction track, right? So you can see, like the top bar, there is the fiction track that runs all the way through Advanced Studies in Literature, Storytelling, Advanced Studies in Genre Literature, because we are a genre program after all. And then, you know, courses that specialize in your particular genre, or mix of genres, and that's Writing in Your Genre I and II, and then you have three courses to write your thesis. [00:21:44.369] Your thesis is a novel of at least 50,000 words. It must be complete. It must be a novel. It can't be a collection of short stories. It can't be a long prose poem. It can't be a linked novellas. It can't be anything like that. It must be a novel with a beginning and a middle, and an end. At the same time, we have, the business track of courses, which are all about learning how to make it as a freelancer, basically, and what to do to succeed as a writer in terms of like, you know, establishing yourself as a business, learning a little bit about, you know, the legalities involved, excuse me, what it, what the agenting landscape is like, what you can expect from contracts. [00:22:34.430] PAUL WITCOVER: And we also offer two certificates, a Professional Writing certificate and an online certificate in the Online Teaching of writing. And you know, as you pretty much speak for themselves, the Professional Writing certificate gives you information about how to make it as a writer, what things you need to know to build a career and sustain it. And the Online Teaching of writing certificate is what you need to know if you want to go into academia and teach creative writing online to other aspiring writers. JACOB POWERS: Excellent. And before we get to the Q and A portion, I do wanna go over, I'm gonna go back one. [00:23:18.189] This isn't gonna be helpful cause, but I want to show how wonderful this infographic is for the MFA. I do not have an infographic like this for the MA because it's not set up in the same way. But I do want to stress a couple of things before moving forward. Basically, the difference between the MA and the MFA in this regard is that, like with the MA, you're still taking creative writing, workshops, and courses. Usually, if you are pursuing a specific concentration, such as fiction, screenwriting, nonfiction, or poetry, you would take your fundamentals course. And then you would take your thesis writing course, and then you would take the thesis completion course. And through those three courses, you're scaffolding and building up a larger product, not 50,000 words, like Paul's. It's usually about 35,000 to 40,000 words. [00:24:10.150] So it could might be more in some instances, and it's gonna obviously also vary depending on the concentration, too. You and it's not as, I wouldn't wanna say the word strict, but like, you know, how Paul was basically saying, you know, it has to be a novel in the MFA. The MA is a little bit more open to different experimental opportunities and stuff. So like, instead of it's okay to write like a novel and short stories, in the MA. Obviously, if you're pursuing screenwriting, it's very okay to write a screenplay, right? Or poetry, collection of poems, chapbook of poems, nonfiction might be your memoir, might be a collection of interlinked essays. [00:24:59.380] So if you are pursuing something where you'd like to have a little bit more wiggle room, and you're not necessarily focused on writing a novel per se, and you might want to explore other genres aside from fiction, that is an opportunity that you can pursue in the MA. The other difference is, unlike having the public, we do have publishing. Like of course, we have publishing courses in the program, on like, you know, central to like, you know, what is the editing process, how do you create an author's platform, things like that. But what the MA kind of makes up for in the lack of courses that the MFA has with publishing ecosystem is, as Paul pointed out a couple of slides back, there are more literature courses in the MA. [00:25:51.079] So you would take literature courses for literary analysis purposes, but also to look at literature and see, you know, what's been done before. What can be done now, and like how is that going to benefit your own writing and stuff as well? That aligns kind of in a lot of respects with many different traditional MA and sometimes the MFA programs, where it is a little bit more literature-heavy. So those are also the differences. So if you're not someone who wants to study literature intensively, you know, pursue different concentrations and stuff like that, and you have a novel in mind, obviously, the MFA might be a better choice for you, especially if you are pursuing speculative or romance writing as well. So, all that to say, you know, both programs are opportunities for you to pursue the type of writing that you want to pursue. [00:26:50.790] And so it's

ultimately comes down to what you want to do with your writing. The degree, and I say this often, you know, degrees are helpful, right? They're good for the CV, but for the arts and degrees with the arts, you need more than the degree, too. You need to learn from the degree, what you're doing, specifically, you know, putting that time aside to write. Putting that time aside to submit your writing and put it out there in the world and see if it can be picked up for publication, putting time aside to build a platform or to have a social media presence so that people know who you are and what you're doing. [00:27:34.300] All of that is very important aspect of both of these programs. And both of these programs do teach, you know, discipline in that regard, because, like the undergraduate classes that we have here, you do have milestones week-over-week that you have to meet. You do have deadlines that you have to meet. Those are things that both programs offer. So, it really just boils down to—what is it that you want to do with your particular degree? So with that in mind, we could let's go ahead and open it up for a Q and A for the second half of our hour here. If you have any questions about the programs, no questions too big or too small, feel free to either write in the chat. You can also raise your hand and come off mic and talk that way as well. [00:28:27.979] JACOB POWERS: So I'll let you go from there. And if there aren't any immediate questions, Paul and I can continue to chat [CHUCKLING] about these programs, too. PAUL WITCOVER: Go ahead, Michael. Oh, you're still muted. There we go. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you for taking my question. So, I am currently in the Creative Writing BA for poetry. I want to apply for graduate school. I'm going to graduate in October. I am interested in concentrating on poetry, primarily. I'm just starting to publish poems, and I'm working on a chapbook right now. [00:29:20.959] MICHAEL: I'm also interested in teaching online or teaching in person, either way. And from what I have heard today, it sounds to me like the MA would meet more of my interests. But I would like to just let you know what I'm doing and submit that to you and see what kind of advice you've had, you would have. JACOB POWERS: Yeah, I think, I mean, if you are interested in pursuing poetry, I think that the MA is definitely the track to go since the MFA doesn't offer a poetry track. So that would be the way that I would go. [00:30:10.270] And yeah, like I said, they're like, if you're interested in teaching, and again, this is an application-based course, it's not guaranteed to get into it. But if you are interested in teaching, we do offer English 675, where you can have a TA opportunity to support first-year writers and stuff as well. So, yeah, it definitely seems like an MA would be a good fit for you. And Deborah—how long are you allowed to take? I'm assuming you're asking how long are you, like any program here at SNHU, I mean you can pause between courses and come back. I don't know. I'm trying to remember how long of a period you have before you have to reapply. But, I do know that, I mean, we do have students who might take a term or two off because of personal reasons or whatever, and then come back. [00:31:06.500] In general, I would put aside two to three years for both programs. That's keeping in mind that you're usually taking about one course a term. Some people take two courses a term, and that's totally fine. It's just you have to really consider how you're balancing your workload, with your other personal obligations and and lives, because some of these courses are very intensive. I'm looking at the thesis completion courses in the MA and then of course, the thesis writing courses in the MFA. So taking multiple courses at the same time can be cumbersome. [00:31:54.290] JACOB POWERS: It's totally doable, in some respects, but in others, it might be better to take one at a time and, in the meantime, you know, continue to, you know, do your other personal interests as well. Yes. Do we have any other questions? It looks like, you… PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, let me jump in before we get to Deborah's question and get this one from Devin that was in the chat. “With regard to the MFA and the application process, what advice would you give to an undergraduate to prepare to have the best chance to get accepted?” My advice is simply to submit your best work. You know, you have to submit, I believe it's like 10 pages of fiction. My advice is to submit the first 10 pages of something. [00:32:44.569] If you have a complete short story that's in 10 pages, submit that. Don't submit something that's taking place in the middle of a novel, where we don't know any of the characters or have no idea of what the plot might be. Try to submit something that showcases a variety of craft elements that has like, description, that has exposition, that has, dialogue, that shows some action. You know, show us, show off a little bit. Show what you can do. Don't necessarily play it safe, you know, do your best to give us a fair sense of who you are as a writer. That's my best advice. And I'm sorry, Deborah, why don't you go ahead. Oh, you're muted. [00:33:37.219] DEBORAH: I was wondering, are these, I'm in the online program, are these eight-week terms, or are they traditional terms? PAUL WITCOVER: These are, once you get to the grad level, they're, they become 10-week terms. But they are, they go year-round, just like in the undergrad. DEBORAH: OK, thank you. PAUL WITCOVER: Yep. JACOB POWERS: And the application process for the MA, someone, Laura had asked this in the chat, but I just want to let everyone else know, too. “So, the MA is very similar in scope to the other MA programs available here at SNHU, where you need to have a Bachelor's degree, of course, your official transcripts, and then a 2.75 or higher GPA. It also asks you to write a letter of intent.” [00:34:27.293] It's not a very

intensive letter or anything like that. It's just mostly along the lines of like, what do you hope to get out of this degree? And what are you hoping to achieve with it? It's so it's not an application-based process like the MFA, where you're submitting materials, your actual fiction writing materials, and being screened by the reviewers to see whether or not you would be a good fit for the program. [PAUSE] And Courtney, thank you for sharing your experiences with the MA. Yes, so like two at a time can be done, but again, like, sometimes things come in, new, in your personal life and stuf and it does, it can become overwhelming. The good news is that it's not like once you sign up and take two courses at a term, you sign a deal or a contract [CHUCKLING] where you have to do that forever. [00:35:26.860] JACOB POWERS: You can always pull back and take one course, or if you need to take a term off, you can. I always, always recommend talking to your advisor about that because they can, they know much more, logistics-wise, and helping and supporting you through. The degree process and everything in that regard, rather than, you know, asking a creative writing professor in the program and stuff like that. It is much more focused on instruction and supporting you through your writing journey, but advisors are certainly there to help you if personal issues or obligations come in the way and you need some help or guidance on what you should do next. PAUL WITCOVER: And here's a question in the chat here from Adeline. “Shortly after signing up for this webinar, I was accepted into the MFA program.” [00:36:20.199] Congratulations. Very happy to have you. “What would be the number one word of advice starting out? I'm a single mom with disabled adult kids at home still, and I work. Time management is a given for me.” Yeah, I would say, you know, “Be kind to yourself, you know. Don't feel like you need to take on, like, you know, all of the pressures and burdens of like, you know.” For example, you might not want to take, start out taking two courses a term. Maybe you would start out with just one course and see how it goes. You know, you are gonna definitely, I mean, the MFA is all about time management. [00:37:09.530] And in fact, when it comes time to take the thesis courses, I recommend that students only take a single course a term, especially for Thesis 3. That's an extremely intensive course. So, I think, you know, you have to know what your limitations are in terms of, you know, what you're able to do and keep your creative spark alive. You don't want to burn yourself out. In taking this course, you have other obligations, family, and your work life is there, so you do have to take all of that into account and you know, pace yourself is my advice as far as that goes. [00:37:51.370] JACOB POWERS: We have another question in the chat. “It sounds like English 675, the teaching internship is quite limited in the number of students who can participate.

Are there any opportunities in the Certificate of Online Teaching or Writing track to gain teaching experience?” So 675 is quite limited because of the way that it's set up. The under… as you know, the undergraduate courses here are on 8-week tracks, where the graduates are on 10-week tracks. And in order for graduates to support undergraduates, the terms need to align in one of three ways. They either start the same date. The undergraduate starts a week after or the undergraduate starts two weeks after. [TYPING SOUNDS] [00:38:45.479] And because of that, it only runs once or twice a year. And because the TAs are in the composition courses, we have to keep it limited to 12 positions per course run. So, it is one of those things where if you are interested in that, the advice that I give is, apply early. Talk to your advisor about that, but apply early. And when the window opens, cuz it's reviewed on a first-come-first-served basis. But beyond that, getting to the second part of the question. So English 670 is the course there’s not a teaching assistantship aspect to it. [00:39:30.989]But it is a course that helps you gain experience on creating an online course, like syllabus, course materials, assignments, things of that caliber. So those are things that you can add to your CV or to your letter of intention or your teaching philosophy, for that matter. It might not be real-time tutoring or support I should say supporting teaching assistant of students in the classroom. But it does give you some experience to be able to share on your resume. Paul, did you have anything extra to say about the certificate aspect of it as well? You might, you know, more than that, about that, than I would. [00:40:22.810] PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, well, you know, it's unfortunate that we don't have more TA opportunities in here at SNHU. So, really, the getting that kind of hands-on experience is really limited to 675. That said, there are internship opportunities at, in the MFA. There's MFA 607, which is a internship course. And it's up to students, with the help of their advisors, to line up an internship. Usually those internships are in areas like, you know, you work as an editorial assistant online, work for a literary journal or a magazine, maybe work for a literary agency and help them evaluate submissions. [00:41:13.959] PAUL WITCOVER: But I think there would be room there as well for some kind of online teaching, assistantship or something. But again, it would be up to the student and the, with the help of their advisor, to find and something like that. SNHU does have a relationship with a internship clearing house. And oftentimes, there are a lot of publishing-related internships that are listed there and are available. So with the help of your advisor, I think you could possibly, I don't want to promise anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could find something. JACOB POWERS: And I see the other question was already answered in this in the chat. Thank

you, Paul. But I wanna highlight it for those who are, might not be looking at the chat. [00:42:03.639] “If you are pursuing a degree, a bachelor's degree in something other than creative writing, but you want to then pursue a degree in creative writing, the MA is a fine fit for that?” It's not a program which requires extensive creative writing experience beforehand. The fundamentals courses, helps give an overview of, you know, the basics of the craft, be it character, plot, dialogue, you know, line, stanzas, use of imagery, anything like that, depending on the concentration in which you're pursuing, And in addition to that, like, kinda going back to the MFA track, if you can, if I'm gonna go back to it real quick to show you again. [00:42:52.570] So you have the start, and then you have the start here, then you have these courses. The MA is set up in a similar way, where you actually start with English 510, which is a analysis course where you study a classic text, and then you study contemporary text of the same genre. So you might study like a classic horror book like, you know, "Frankenstein", or "Dracula" or something along those lines. And you might study a more contemporary horror, Stephen King is a good, I mean, it's kind of the given example, but I mean, it could be any kind of a contemporary writer, and you basically look at those two, and analyze, you know, how has the craft and genre and style changed over the years? How has it been similar? Kind of gets you the idea of, you know, what is it that you wanna do with the MA project that you're going to eventually pursue. [00:43:45.860] And English 520 is then you outlining your project, coming up with your idea that you want to pursue, be it… being in a fiction track, nonfiction, screenwriting, or poetry track. I do, I should also stress too, like the BA in Creative Writing here, the MA you can pursue a non-concentrated degree too. The benefit of that is if you don't know what you want to go into, like if you wanna kind of dabble in all forms of writing, you're like, I wanna take a little bit of fiction, I wanna do a little bit of poetry, or a little, do a little bit of nonfiction, the non-concentrated path allows you to do that. It doesn't… what that means is you're not gonna write as large of a project by the end of it, because you're mostly just taking the fundamentals courses to dabble in those various concentrations and stuff like that. [00:44:40.000] But it does give you that opportunity to see, you know, what is it that I and most interested in learning and most interested in writing. And you can then put that… apply that to the capstone that you take, and, kind of, create a project around that. And again, it won't be as extensive as perhaps writing a 35,000 to 40,000-word start of a novel or a memoir or something of that caliber. But it does allow you to kind of pursue multiple types of writing at the same time. [TYPING SOUNDS] [PAUSE] Let's see, where are we? “I've been struggling to decide which degree would be better suited for me once I graduate. I have a fairly creative mind and believe that the MA degree would be en route for me to go. [00:45:28.169] However, I also think that maybe the MFA degree…it would be better because I do have an idea for a novel that I'll be writing soon. My focus for my creative writing degree is fiction.” So for folks who, and Paul stop me if I'm leading him down the wrong path here and stuff, but I mean, if you are someone who are in fiction writing, you have an idea, you have a specific genre of fiction, one of which we have here, if it's speculative or romance or contemporary, I don't see there being any issue with you applying to the MFA to see if you can get into that program. You should have, obviously, writing portfolio to submit when you are applying to the program, as well as your intention to why you're pursuing the MFA. [00:46:20.989] The worst thing that can happen is that you are not accepted into the MFA. Which is not the worst thing in the world either, because all that means is then you can jump into the MA program, and you can pursue your writing goals in the MA program. And as Paul pointed out at the beginning, sometimes people apply to the MFA, and they don't get in because they're not quite there with their portfolio yet, but it's getting there. And maybe, having just a couple of more classes under your belt in the MA will prepare you for the MFA. And there are actually… we have three courses here at SNHU, like I was saying, 510 and 520. Those are crosswalks to advanced studies in literature and storytelling in the MFA program. And then, the fiction fundamentals course is your first writing genre course in the MFA. [00:47:16.889] So if you take those courses in the MA and then you end up getting in the MFA, those credits count towards the MFA. And so, it's not like you're gonna have to start all over with the MFA, if you do, pursue it that way. So, I mean, but that's, you know, if you're interested in pursuing the MFA, I say, “God bless and apply and see what happens.” And if you don't get in, it's not the end of the world. It certainly isn't. I think that I was rejected from several MFA programs before I landed the one that I eventually got to. [00:47:52.610] And in the meantime, if you wanna, you know, build up those writing chops, why not pursue the MA in its place? [PAUSE 19 SECONDS] Alright. I see that Paul answered the other question that has been asked. Does anyone have anything else that they'd like to ask for me? I think the takeaway that I just… I'd like to stress in these meetings, we have one of these every year, and I always want to emphasize that Paul and I can kind of give you an overview of what these programs offer and guidance on which might be better fit. [00:48:49.050] JACOB POWERS: I mean, obviously, if you want to pursue poetry, an MA is a good fit. If you wanna pursue fiction, speculative, and you have a novel in mind, the MFA might

be a good fit. But whatever you choose to do, it is ultimately up to what you want to do with your writing, what you want to do with your degree. So, it's something that, you know, sleep on it [CHUCKLING]. Think about it a little bit, and consider what it is that you want to do. The nice thing, also, I should point out. And again, correct me if I'm wrong here, Paul, but I don't think I am. The MFA application is free, correct? PAUL WITCOVER: That's right. JACOB POWERS: Yeah, okay. You're not being charged to apply to the MFA. So if you have the goods to do so, you might as well apply and see what comes of it. [00:49:41.709] And as well, no rejection in creative writing is kind of a badge that one wears. Especially once you get into the publishing aspect and stuff, we all know the story about. Stephen King having hundreds of rejections before getting accepted, and you just, if you Google anything where it's like books that have been rejected a 1,000 times before they were picked up. Many of them are seminal classic works to this day and everything. So, whatever it is that you end up pursuing, we're here to help support you, be it through the MA or the online MFA program. [PAUSE] “Is it more advisable to take a break after completing my BA creative writing program, or would it be better to go straight into either the MA or MFA program?” [00:50:36.989] I think that ultimately boils down to what's going on in your life. If you started a new career, you moved across the country, and you have a new kid, it might be like, “I might need that year to just let the dust settle and get in place, these things, to get my ducks in a row.” But if you are also a person who's like, “If I don't keep this train going, it's gonna stop. And it'll be a hard time trying to get it to go again,” then yes, you should just continue on your degree path, straight from the BA to the MA. Personally, I… so I didn't take a year off between high school and my undergraduate. I went straight into my undergraduate. I did take a year off between my BA and my MFA. [00:51:28.229] And that was mostly because this was way back in the day when you had to send out applications in the MFA by snail mail and do research and submit to 15 different MFA programs and it was a lot. And I also wanted to save up a little money because I knew that I was probably going to move across the country and I surely did. I moved from Michigan to Idaho, so quite a change. So that worked for me. But I had other folks who went straight from the BA to the MFA. That very fall, they went right into the MFA. And you know, both experiences worked out for me and for my friends, so it really does boil down to what works best for you. [00:52:22.600] PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, there was probably 10 or maybe even a little more years between my undergrad and my MA, and I went… I got my MA because I was stalled as a writer. I could not make any more progress, just from a craft level. And I felt really discouraged by it. And so

I was desperate. And it was desperation that led me to get my MA. But once I was in my MA, it really helped me with a breakthrough and it unblocked me as a writer. JACOB POWERS: It's never too late to start. PAUL WITCOVER: No. JACOB POWERS: And it's never too late to come back. PAUL WITCOVER: No, exactly right. JACOB POWERS: Right, so. Alright. [00:53:14.389] JACOB POWERS: We have just a couple of minutes left. If anyone has any lingering questions that they wanna ask, now's the time. Otherwise, I hope that this has been helpful for everyone whose interested in pursuing an MA or an online MFA here. Oh, I see that we have another question. “Hello, I'm an English BA major. Would it be advisable to start building my writing portfolio now if I'm interested in taking the MFA?” PAUL WITCOVER: Yeah, I can answer that. I would say, “Yes.” I mean, you know, the important thing about being a writer is that you've got to finish your work, and you've got to submit it. And I mean, a lot of times people think, especially if you're an, you know, you're still taking your BA, you think like, “Well, I'm not ready to start submitting it.” [00:54:03.649] But Stephen King was submitting his work when he was still a teenager, when he was still in high school. That's when he started collecting his rejection slips. And it was the, you know, through amassing those rejection slips that he improved his craft to the point where he started selling. And so, my advice really to every writer is to start submitting your work as early as you possibly can and submit it to places that will pay you for it, you know. Don't start at the bottom. Start at the top. You know, think highly of your work and think highly of yourself as a writer. It's a, it's a very, it's a position worthy of respect, I think. And you should respect yourself for being a writer. And insist upon being paid for what you do, and insist upon the value of what you're writing, like, don't think like, “Oh, they're never going to accept my work.” No. [00:54:54.659] PAUL WITCOVER: Think like, “Oh, they'll be lucky [CHUCKLING] to receive a story from me.” You have to think that way. Might not be true, but you have to think that way, right? You have to build up your ego as a writer. So I encourage you to think that way and start working on not just your portfolio as a writer, but start submitting your work right now. Start submitting it and start collecting those rejection slips, and start collecting those acceptances because acceptances will come. I guarantee it. And let me point out that SNHU, the Online Creative Writing programs at SNHU, have a literary journal, the Penman Review. And we encourage everyone to submit there. JACOB POWERS: Yes, great point, Paul. Yeah, we do have the Penman Review. [00:55:40.050] We've actually had… we've had quite a few new students, published there, whether it be their first piece ever, and some of them have been published many times over. But they also pursue getting published in the Penman Review, and we're happy to have them there. [TYPING SOUNDS] So, one thing I wanted to point out, someone had asked, Michael had asked, “When is the time to apply?” Check with your advisor for sure. Generally, you apply to the MA or online MFA near the end of your BA. Credit-wise, you can check with your advisor, and they'll give you the go-ahead. But it is just like all programs here. It's a rolling application process, so there's never a wrong time to apply as you're getting near the end of your degree. [00:56:39.090] And with that, I think it's time to wrap things up here. So, just wanted to thank you all for dropping in again. I saw a lot of thank yous in the comments, and you're very welcome. It's our pleasure to have you all here. Keep an ear out and eye out for other events beyond this, obviously. Next week, actually, since we have you here, we're gonna have a Word For Word event with a romance historical writer, Courtney Milan. That'll be eight o'clock on Wednesday, April fifteenth. So if you are a romance or history or romance and or history fan, it's one not to miss. So keep an eye out for that in the emails that you get from SNHU. It's the Word For Word, is the name of the event that we host. [00:57:29.239] JACOB POWERS: So we hope to see you all there. Otherwise, if you have any questions about the MA, I'm gonna put my email in, and I'm sure Paul will do the same with his email. If you have any questions about the MA, you're always welcome to email me. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. [TYPING SOUNDS] Paul's gonna put in his email as well for the MFA. And with that, I think we're all set. Thank you all for coming. Thank you, Paul. PAUL WITCOVER: Thanks, everyone. JACOB POWERS: Talk to you soon. Alright, take care.