התמלול המלא של OverPressure Podcast Julia Rock & Austin

I worked in mainly. 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:47.599 And so it wasn't until I started my second career in energy where uh one of my clients, which was a friend of mine, was like, hey, you should probably start charging for this. 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:58.719 I mean, it's cool to get free help, I'm grateful, but you have a knack for this, and so you may want to consider starting your own thing and actually charging people for the services you provide. 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.199 I had never really thought about it at all. 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:03.199 I'm just like, you know, I just want to help people. 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:08.479 But then I was like, wait a minute, that might be not that bad of an idea. 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.240 And so that's actually how I got started. 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:21.199 And the other thing was, you know, I was in recruiting or helping to recruit uh talent to my uh energy company. 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.879 I would go to some of the career fairs and represent our finance function. 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:30.879 And I noticed that the performance, especially for for folks of color, a lot of times they would come to my booth. 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.719 I they they weren't as polished as I as they could be. 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:41.199 And I was like, okay, I know that they it's not as I know it's this, they have the skills, they have the background, what's missing here? 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:45.280 And I'm like, okay, I have the skill set that can help them. 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.639 So how about I actually use my business to do that? 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:58.560 So between kind of the prompting of my friend and then what I saw kind of in real life at my job, that's what really said, okay, let me lean into actually going on this path. 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:00.479 Uh, but I didn't quit my day job. 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:05.360 Um, you know, I continued to build alongside my day job for a long time. 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.080 Uh I'm not one of those just leap people. 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.439 It's like, no, stabilize, yeah, get your money. 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:17.920 You're you're saying you're in uh finance and you're not the absolute risk taker. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.399 I like that's so strange. 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:22.240 Uh-hunk, right? 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.439 Now that that's awesome. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:34.480 And it we see people jump into it, but that really is the better pathway, especially um just though being in those positions. 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.399 I'm sure you had so many connections. 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:40.480 And I'm totally fine saying the name of the company, but I I'll let you start it. 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:45.759 Um very impressive company, very impressive um progression through that company. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:56.800 Um but I'm sure what are some lessons learned that you've been able to apply from you know the Fortune 500 world to now running

your own business? 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:57.360 Yeah. 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:08.480 So so yeah, so so the two companies I work for, JP Morgan Chase and then Exxon Mobil, uh, and so biggest companies in the world, biggest bank, biggest oil and gas, you know, so so big players. 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:17.360 Uh so some of the greatest lessons that I've learned is that um you've got to take up space on your own. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.879 Like opportunities are not just going to come to you. 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.000 So if you want uh that next role, that promotion, that opportunity, that connection, you've got to get after it. 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:36.000 Because in companies of that size, it's easy for you to get lost because of just the sheer number of people that you're up against. 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:41.360 And so I had to learn to take up space uh on my own. 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:50.240 And another lesson that I learned is that one of the greatest gifts that you can give is to pull people up from behind you. 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:58.720 So I had phenomenal mentors and sponsors who were willing to put their themselves and their necks on the line for me. 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:14.560 And in order for me to continue to move forward in my career, but also feel good about how I was progressing in my career, I had to open the doors for other people and be willing to put my neck out the same way that others were willing to do that for me. 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:19.439 Um both both in mentorship and just advocacy when I saw something was wrong. 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.759 I I was willing to speak up all about that. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:23.759 And I'm sorry, go ahead. 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:31.680 Those really are such direct comparisons to the entrepreneurial world of it's competitive, you better get after it. 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:32.240 Yes. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.040 And it's so important to have that mentorship. 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:45.279 And then I I know so many of us after we start progressing and make it down the road a little bit, immediately we'll turn around and be like, you should do this. 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:55.040 I don't know if that's us uh inviting other people into the chaos of entrepreneurship and making ourselves feel better, but it it really comes from we want to help people. 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.800 Um, and those are two really, really good points. 00:06:59.120 --> 00:06:59.279 Yeah. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:00.399 But please continue. 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:12.000 No, I I mean, and and when I think about from an entrepreneurial perspective, you know, having that community is helpful because entrepreneurship is such a lonely road. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:18.319 You are just trying to get it out the mud, um, unless you were kind of gifted a business that was already thriving. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.920 But for the majority of us, we're we are digging it out on our own. 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:29.680

And so having mentors, having a community of folks who you can bounce ideas off of or who can just help one another. 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:36.800 I mean, that is just invaluable on a very kind of lonely but rewarding uh entrepreneurial experience. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:49.600 I imagine the uh finance side of it, because that's directly what you were doing, that probably had tremendous uh or was a tremendous asset early on in business of being able to set things up right. 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:52.240 And I know that's a weakness as a lot of people start. 00:07:52.319 --> 00:08:00.240 And you'll see that kind of knowledge of finance grow as people grow their companies, but um it had to be an advantage early on. 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:06.319 Yeah, so but because it's the fundamental difference between like revenue and profit. 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.959 Like because I, you know, I I you know I lived in income statements and other things like that. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:14.639 It's you know, because people are celebrating, oh, I made$100,000. 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:19.199 It's like you didn't make it, you generated$100,000 in revenue. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.160 That's a very different thing than making$100,000. 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:36.399 And so what I had to learn early on is that, you know, the revenue, it's it's how do I keep my costs low so that I can take as much of that revenue down to the bottom line. 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:48.480 So what can I do at a low cost or free uh way to make sure that my operating costs, you know, and then for people who are producing products, you know, your cost of goods, how do you keep that as low as possible? 00:08:48.799 --> 00:09:00.480 Um, and then making sure that um this is kind of indirectly related, but making sure that you're trying to do things right the first time because it's really expensive to do things over. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:10.720 And so you had the tendency to try to take the cheapest route, but it's like, okay, now you have to do two or three iterations of this because you had to keep paying because it wasn't good the first time. 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:21.440 You mean like those online bookkeeping services that no one has used, not not in this office, uh, that then they had to rebuild everything from scratch and QuickBooks, kind of like that? 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:22.159 Yes. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:22.639 Yes. 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:23.360 Okay. 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:25.360 I've been down that road. 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.879 You know, and and and so and but because you have the tendency, I have to save every dollar. 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.879 And it's like, yes, but you're gonna be wasting money later. 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:46.960 And so understanding finance was really helpful to understand where do I want to put my resources and then understanding what my numbers were telling me in terms of what's working and what's not working. 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:52.080 And if my

costs are too high, uh, and and what am I taking home uh at all? 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:52.639 Right. 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.799 So those that that was invaluable information, I got, I gotta say. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:09.440 Well, that that also is going back to you staying with your full-time position during the day, that it eliminates so much of that pain early on where you're not bringing home enough. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:14.399 Like and and you start that realization of, wow, it takes money to run a business. 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:19.600 Uh and so ha having that buffer is very, very valuable. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:34.399 Um But I I also think probably one of the huge advantages of being in that environment is the leadership, just the the systems they have for elevating people through the different layers of management all the way up to the executive side. 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:41.200 Um but that seems like it has become a passion of yours on the leadership front. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.320 So it is that where it started? 00:10:45.120 --> 00:11:06.960 You know, um I I've I've gotta say one of the things like seeing leadership in in an organization of that size, it gets you into the mind of how leaders think when there's a lot of things on the line and and the gravity of a bad decision versus a good decision, right? 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:16.639 Because if you feel like, okay, I just hung up my shingle for my t-shirt printing business, maybe every decision isn't going to cost you a gazillion dollars right out the gate. 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:26.159 But it's like it's that mindset of what impact does my decision have on the people around me and and to this organization. 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:37.759 And so seeing that live, and like I said, seeing the gravity of when bad decisions were made, and it's not just on the services or the external customers, on the staff. 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:43.679 Seeing that, I just realized, you know, that there is a way to fix this, right? 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:52.480 Especially since I've had career coaching clients who were hopping from job to job, and they talked about, I love my job, but I hate my boss or I hate the management. 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:59.120 So seeing those two things from clients and then in my own day job, it's like, okay, there's a through line here. 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:11.679 And if I could tap into helping leaders, we could really transform how organizations work, which will then trickle down to the bottom line, but also create better uh work environments. 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:21.519 Well, that that brings us to what made you actually pull the trigger on going into it for yourself? 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:26.720 Like what was that um tipping point where you said, all right, I'm all in on my own thing. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:28.799 So it's funny. 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:30.879 Part of it's a leadership thing. 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:41.679 Uh so in my last role, I was um I

was at a pretty senior level uh kind of executive executive level portfolio, about$23 billion in operating expenses. 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.279 And it was a pretty intense role. 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:52.799 And I realized that okay, I can't do this well and run my business well. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.960 I have to pick a side because something is going to start to suffer. 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.279 And I had people that I was responsible for. 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.799 It's not just dollars and cents, it was people and their careers. 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:14.159 And also, you know, I saw, you know, leadership that was let me find the right language, but leadership that wasn't great. 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:27.039 Undeveloped leadership, undeveloped leadership or underdeveloped leadership and the decisions that they were making that were impacting us and driving work and creating more tension and chaos. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:32.320 I said, if I'm trying to run a business, I can operate in that environment. 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:47.919 And I also can't teach people about leadership if I'm not willing to step out on my own and get away from leadership that is unwilling to change and unwilling to take uh heed of advice or insights or perspective. 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:55.360 So I had to kind of, you know, walk the walk uh as well as realizing, hey, I can't do both things well. 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.679 And so if I have to make a bet on something, I'm always gonna be my own best bet. 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:01.759 Absolutely. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:07.679 Um the consistency of leadership is I know something that you've talked about. 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:15.360 Um and I think the irony is leadership constantly needs to change and grow. 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:23.200 And if somebody's unwilling to change and is stuck because the world is constantly changing, um, it it's very hard to be a good leader. 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:31.200 So I I fully understand how making that shift and stepping into it and want betting on yourself. 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.000 Like if if you believe in yourself, you should bet on yourself. 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:34.399 Absolutely. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:35.440 No matter what. 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:43.039 Um but talk to us about what you were building and what it has developed into now. 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:52.240 Yeah, so so it's so my business has morphed a little bit, and it's for for the entrepreneurs who are listening, the business you start is not the business you end with, right? 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:57.120 You know, the business I started, I was doing resumes for$75 a pop. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:06.399 Uh and I was doing interview coaching sessions for$75, and then I upped it to$100, and I thought I was like doing it back then, right? 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:12.639 And so, but but over time of working with clients, like I said, I realized a leadership challenge. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:18.639 And so that's what I started to build is a business that delivered leadership development solutions. 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:26.639 So taking something as small as a keynote or a workshop and then being able to expand that into meeting a company's needs. 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:38.240 So whether it's that they need a full brunt blown leadership development program redesign, if they want a consultant on their leadership kind of culture and what they're cultivating, um, and then also executive coaching. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:49.039 So I'm a certified executive coach, and part of the leadership challenge is that they go to these leadership seminars and workshops, but then there's nothing to cement it later, right? 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.039 Because they're not going to any sort of coaching or anything to help them integrate the concepts. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:16:02.720 And so that's why I wanted to make sure that my company offered that kind of full suite so that leaders could get ongoing support beyond just the workshop or keynote. 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:13.759 Uh, and so now what we're evolving into is um so I've actually written a book, uh, developed my own leadership philosophy uh called Uncomplicated Leadership, and I and I wrote a book about that. 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:27.679 And it's really trying to help organizations, especially in the age of AI and everything that's going on, making sure they're not losing sight of putting people at the center and making sure that they're getting back to the basics of leading people well. 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.960 So uh so that's what's what's really growing on the horizon now. 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:43.200 So we started out with resumes at$75 and now significantly more expensive services, but uh but it's really centered around leadership and and and putting people first uh and in the center. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.519 Yeah, the it's an interesting progression. 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.120 You started with, oh, here's a single one-time thing. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:17:00.159 Oh, let's help you with uh these things that you know it is easy to go in a to an event and forget half of what you learned by the time that the flight makes it home. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.160 And you know, maybe you took a bathroom break when they tied everything together. 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.000 Like it it's really easy to miss stuff. 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:11.359 So putting things in more and more um concrete ways that people can go back to. 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.880 And uh it that seems to be a trend. 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:23.440 Uh, because I I think we're all realizing that it's awesome to get that um immediate boost, get that idea. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:31.279 For me, it's probably Instagram scrolling, seeing, oh, let's do this AI thing, uh, which my team isn't always the biggest fan of. 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:51.680 But uh, you know, we when you install it more as a system and that's your rock of your

business, um, to use your last name, uh the effects are compounding, which goes back to the consistency piece, not only in leadership, but being consistent across the business is so, so valuable. 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.559 Um I I guess what inspired the book? 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:08.400 You know, um when I when I really take a step back and think about, you know, the the things that I heard from clients about why they didn't like their leaders and what the challenges were. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:27.039 And then when I think in my own career, the leaders who were like killing it, uh, and those who were who weren't, I realized the disconnects between the two that the ones who weren't great, they weren't doing certain things well, and then these folks over here were doing things well, and now and so I had to uncover well, what are those things? 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:36.079 And so when I really sat down, and in the book, I actually show you what I wrote verbatim, is that I realized it was just five things that they did really well. 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.880 So clarity, consistency, connection, courage, and celebration. 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.079 Every leader that I have coached or I have worked with who has been phenomenal in leading their teams, it's those five things. 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.799 It's not technical knowledge, it's not, you know, I was in the military, it's not, it's none of that. 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.880 It's just these five things. 00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:04.160 And so when I realized that, I said, I I wish I could get this message out to as many people as possible. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:18.480 And yes, I love coaching and keynoting and all the things, but there's gotta be a different way for me to get this to people around the world for them to get it in their hands themselves and not wait to connect with me on LinkedIn or at an event. 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:20.799 And so that's really what uh inspired the book. 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.799 I actually started a Substack first. 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:35.200 Uh so you know, and then I I said, hey, how about I actually put this, these ideas all together um and create almost like a field manual that people can can can use. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:36.559 That's awesome. 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.200 One of my team members told me I needed to start a Substack this week. 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:40.480 So that's hilarious for one. 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.720 But this is your sign, message. 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.480 All five of those things are incredible. 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:51.279 Um, but the one I want to hit on, because I don't think it gets talked about enough, is the courage aspect. 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:58.480 Um so when it comes to courage in business, like how do you define that? 00:19:58.640 --> 00:19:59.839 What does it look like? 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:08.160 Man, so so the piece that I think gets under talked about about courage is vulnerability. 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:23.359 You being willing to say, I don't know, I don't have this, I'm nervous, I'm upset, you know, because for leaders or even as business owners, you you have this urge to keep the facade up, right? 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.680 To show that you're doing the all the things. 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.279 And it's and it's like you're you're performing, but for who? 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:35.440 And you're missing out on building real connections with people, getting real help you need. 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:43.839 Uh, and so for me, a big part of courage in in business is the courage to be vulnerable and saying, hey, I don't have all the answers. 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:50.079 Um and the other thing when it comes to courage is the willingness to stand alone. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:21:03.839 That was one of the biggest things that I saw in corporate were senior people, I mean, top of the food chain, just kind of rolling over to go along with something where I'm like, you know, that's a terrible idea. 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.319 Why on earth would you agree to this? 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.200 But they didn't want to be an outsider. 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.240 They didn't want to be outcast from their little leadership group. 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:25.119 And so, even from a business perspective, it may come a time when you have to show integrity around whether it's a political stance, religious stance, whatever it might be, you may have to stand alone. 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:36.799 And that must that may mean that revenue is on the line or certain customers are on the line, but if you have a conviction, like you have to be willing to stand behind that, even if it means that you stand by yourself. 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:37.680 Yeah. 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.480 I I sum that up all the time for our team. 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.640 I say it a couple times a week at a minimum of just do the right thing. 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.319 And uh it I don't think that is prevalent enough. 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:57.279 But um I I think we tend to get in the way of our own businesses' growth as entrepreneurs. 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:11.440 And I think that that courage aspect Is hey, you know, have the vulnerability to also say, hey, I'm the problem here, and let your team execute on what they are gonna do better than you can, and just get out of their way. 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:16.559 And that that takes a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of decreasing the ego. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:24.720 Um, but I I think that that's a massive difference maker when you recognize, hey, yeah, that I've built this amazing team. 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.400 Let them do their thing. 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:32.640 Um So the book is not out yet, so this has to be an exciting time. 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:39.039 Um wh when's it come out first and uh wh where are you trying to take it? 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.079 Yeah, so so actually

pre-orders are open. 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.200 So so so folks can grab their pre-orders. 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:51.680 Uh but the physical delivery is on September 18th, so we're we're a little more than a month out, which is nerve-wracking. 00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:04.079 Um but but what I'm really trying to take it to is something that organizations can internalize, where it's like it's not even dependent on me that I'm whether they license the program or license the materials. 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:12.880 So because it's uncomplicated enough that you don't need to hire me every single year and pay me a million dollars to come in and do this. 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.880 It's like you pay the one-time upfront fee. 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:17.279 I can train some folks and deliver the materials. 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:25.599 And then from there, you continue to iterate that within your organization and then obviously reach out to me and my organization as needed. 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:33.279 Um, so that's the real goal, is because I don't want it to be that people feel like they they can't take this on their own. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:46.240 The goal is for you to take this message and make it yours for your company, knowing the parameters, knowing the challenges that you face, and and realizing that you don't have to spend a gazillion dollars to create effective leaders. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:52.799 So that's really the next goal is how do I uh license it beyond uh the book so that organizations can adopt it on their own. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:24:06.400 Yeah, I I know from our side being in PR, uh partnering with other people is a powerful tool that you know uh as you're going to different communities uh and leveraging those stages. 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.519 I'm sure you know this, but uh for the audience, don't be afraid of partnerships, they can do amazing things. 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:29.680 On the implementation side, I think that's so important because you know I I appreciate EOS, we have a similar system, but like when I need a week-long program with a dedicated implementer just to like understand what's going on, like there's gotta be a better way to do it. 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.279 And you know, I think a lot of things are like that. 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:38.559 Um a lot of the coaching programs out there are like will take you through these steps and it's gonna take you through years. 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:48.319 But um when you make it simple, when you keep it so that I think that helps with duplication, which is what you need across the board, especially in leadership. 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:50.160 I mean, I I'm just now learning this. 00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:04.799 I we're kind of building out our second layer of leadership, and uh it's been a learning process for me, but like having those duplicatable things, the sayings, the uh systems behind it, it it's such a powerful thing. 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:06.240 Uh go ahead. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.240 And no, I was just gonna say that it's about creating a shared language that everyone can use, right? 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:22.000 Because a lot of the leadership language is super philosophical, and you've got all this science with the with this personality type and this behavioral thing. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:27.920 And and so it's it's the leaders can get it, but then everyone else in the organization's like, what? 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.480 Okay, if you're into that new fad thing, good luck to you, right? 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:40.799 But but you know, something like uncomplicated leadership, we you know, keeping the language simple so that, like you said, it's very much lather, rinse, repeat. 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:49.599 And it doesn't matter what challenge you're facing, whether it's change management, whether it's something else, that you can literally use the same principles over and over and over. 00:25:49.920 --> 00:26:01.279 And and no matter who comes into the job, you can hand it off to that person and they don't feel like, okay, well, now you've got to go off to this fancy thing at Yale for six months in order to be ready to do this. 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:08.000 It's like, how do we get you to be to be ready for leadership as soon as possible with the lowest barrier to entry? 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.240 That's so huge. 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:21.680 Um so you got the book coming out, uh, you're you're in your established uh zone of genius helping businesses. 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:28.880 Um what's what's the big uh audacious Harry plan for uh where you take everything? 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:40.799 Man, so so the big audacious plan is really for me to build out kind of like an agency of folks who are doing this work, right? 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.839 Where it's it's folks who are trained on the uncomplicated leadership message. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:54.000 And so it's not okay, you gotta talk to Julia Rock, that they are people all around the globe who are trained on this concept. 00:26:54.160 --> 00:27:06.160 And whether they use it with their coaching clients, whether they use it in their consulting, where it's truly something that organizations have access to, but practicing professionals can use it for themselves. 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:16.559 And honestly, I'm just able to kind of step back and be out of the limelight because you know, after you've been in business a long time, you're just like, I don't want to do everything, someone else do it, right? 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:25.200 And so that's really my big goal is training a workforce of folks across the globe to use this concept and take it with them. 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:36.240 Um and so, and then my plan is also to have kind of a higher ticket kind of almost like a Tony Robbins type top line package, right? 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:53.599 His hundred thousand, whatever plus, uh is is to have that for the for C-suite

executives because the concepts, while they're applicable at all levels of leadership, there are there are specific challenges that C-suite executives face. 00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:05.279 And unless you have seen the level of money that they have to deal with or the number of employees that you have to deal with, it's hard for you to speak their language. 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:20.960 And so that's why I'm really grateful for my uh work at ExxonMobil, is because again, you know,$23 billion is an insane amount of money that many companies don't ever see in their entire, you know, history of business, right? 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.440 And so I really want to have something for executives at that level. 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:37.279 So it's almost like I said, it's the Tony Robbins version of uncomplicated uh leadership for for C-suite executives and then training that global workforce uh so that I can step out and let others uh lead the charge. 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.680 Well, it it's a really high-leverage way to make impact too. 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:53.839 Um and for anybody who's been around a little bit, there are different levels, and you find out about the next one as you're approaching wherever you are. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:01.359 And you know, there there is different language, there's different concerns, there's different problems to solve, whether it's on the leadership front or the finance front. 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:18.480 Um and I I think that's why the natural pathway is 40 years of growth for a company, because it just takes that long to develop all those systems um for business and on the individual level as that uh you know founding leader. 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:26.480 Um now getting exposure to it with an established organization definitely speeds that up and gives you exposure to a lot of that really cool stuff. 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:46.640 And I I've seen a little bit of it, but it's still it there's also the side of it where I think as we progress more and more you realize how little you actually know, as opposed to that there's the zone, I don't know, around probably be four million, where it's like, oh I know everything, I figured everything out. 00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.559 No, you you're just starting. 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:48.960 Yeah. 00:29:49.359 --> 00:30:02.720 Um but uh I guess on on the um team side, how do you have that trickle down? 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:11.279 Like obviously simplifying the system, but what have you seen work for organizations um to make sure that their team is engaged? 00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:17.119 Because I I know that's a growing thing, especially with the new generation of just checking out. 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.759 Um and it's it's not I don't even think it's because of who they are. 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.880 It's just hey, that they expect that higher standard. 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:29.519 And if people aren't gonna provide that, like AI really is gonna take over. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.240 But uh, how do you make sure your organization is taking that through each level? 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.200 Yeah, so it's it's simpler than you might think. 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:46.000 Uh so I'm not a fan of like like the team building forced fun, like we don't need to go to Dave and Buster's for the eighth time, right? 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.480 We don't need to go to top golf again. 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:54.480 It's it's about having a conversation with the people on your team and understanding what's important to them. 00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:59.839 Oftentimes leaders sit around trying to think about what is what do you think our teams need? 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.839 And they never ask anybody. 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:16.640 And so the the way that you actually build that engagement is by asking, you know, hey, this is what I'm seeing, or here's what I think, but tell me how this feels to you, or what what support do you need from me, or what would be most of value to you? 00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:22.240 Because one, people feel like, okay, you see me and you value my input. 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.079 So that's already a shift in their mind. 00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.160 Like, oh, okay, I'm not just a number here. 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:34.480 But two, if you're willing to actually take information and do something with it, it's like, oh, I can actually have an influence or impact on what's happening here. 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:40.480 That's a reason for me for me to be more engaged because I can actually see where my input goes. 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:49.359 And so that's really the secret sauce or you know, behind building engagement is that communication and asking people directly. 00:31:49.599 --> 00:32:10.559 Don't assume, don't do the pizza party and the ice cream thing for the 40th time, because now it feels like you're just placating people and patting them on the head when they really want you to get out of their way or move an obstacle out of their way or provide them with different levels of resources, but you don't know that because you didn't ask. 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:12.240 So yeah. 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:24.000 That's so strange to me, just with with my background and the way we were taught initially by our early coaches of building culture is really what it is. 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.039 And and part of that culture is the feedback cycle. 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.960 Um and I think people mistake the Dave and Busters in Topgolf. 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.799 I love top golf, don't get me wrong. 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:35.039 No, that's not building culture. 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:35.920 Yeah. 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.799 Um So how how do you build that culture? 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.680 And I know it's a struggle for a lot of people to have those tough conversations. 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:56.319 Um, how do you appro approach those conversations to make sure that you know

every single person that you're working with has that feedback cycle? 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.119 Yeah. 00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:03.680 So so I think it's it's important to frame the conversation the correct way, right? 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:08.960 Because the reason why conversations are so tough is because of a lot of times it's the framing. 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:19.279 So for example, when you're when you're going to have to let somebody go, people make it it's difficult no matter what, but they make it overly difficult because they're framing it around the person. 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:30.240 But if you help them to understand, hey, these are the contributions that you've made, and here's where we are, and here's where the gap, and this has nothing to do with you as an individual, right? 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:34.960 Then you're able to provide that person with context as, okay, so this is not an attack on me. 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:39.680 It's like I've done the best I can, they can see it, but it's not where they are right now. 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.359 And even if they're frustrated, but they they know that you're not attacking them. 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.440 It's the same thing with any of these conversations. 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.880 How are you framing it? 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:53.519 So if you're wondering how do I approach this conversation with someone and saying, hey, like the it's the vulnerability aspect. 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:59.519 I'm coming to you because I need your help, I need your insight, or I need your perspective. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:07.359 I want to make this experience for you here better than it is currently, but I can't do that without you providing me some feedback. 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.039 Because now you disarm the other person because it's like, okay, they don't have to be on the defensive because you're not coming at them. 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.519 It's like, hey, this is a collaborative effort. 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.039 I want you involved. 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.880 I want us to partner together. 00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:24.800 And so that, like I said, it brings down the defenses and makes a tough conversation a little bit easier. 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:26.079 Absolutely. 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.280 Yeah, framing is so, so important. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:35.840 The I I know another way to kind of pass this down is books. 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.119 So I'll start with uh where can people find your book? 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.159 It's on pre-order. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.760 Yes, on Amazon. 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.559 So Amazon, that makes it easy. 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.639 Um, but what what other books would you recommend as people are trying to learn how to be a better leader, trying to learn about having conversations and leading their team? 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.639 Um what what are some of your go-tos? 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:06.960 Yeah, so I've got I've got a few, but um, one of them is the Seven Trust Languages, is Talk to Me Nice, the Seven Trust Languages by Minda Hartz. 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.360 Um it's such a such a great book. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:18.400 Um I I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so Dare to Lead is is another one of my uh one of my favorites as well. 00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:24.719 And this one is a little bit unconventional from a leadership perspective, but I think it it helps. 00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:30.400 It's it's um it's a 12-week year by uh by Brian Moran. 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:31.039 So good. 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:31.360 So good. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.320 I love that book. 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:32.639 Yeah. 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.159 And yes, it's not a leadership book, but it's helping you reframe goals and and and to keep your team moving forward. 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:48.320 So yes, you can set them for yourself, but if you implement them in business, it's how do you keep your team continuously moving forward to goals, right? 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:50.159 Versus saying we're gonna do this for 12 months. 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.400 It's like, okay, well, what are we gonna do by the end of the quarter? 00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:53.599 How do we revisit it? 00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.480 So those are so those are three of my faves. 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.599 That's awesome. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.679 Uh we shifted a 12-week year, probably going on two years ago. 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.440 And isn't it awesome? 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:04.719 It's so amazing. 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:10.079 And when I bring up the concept of some people like at events, it they're like, what is it? 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.719 And I'm like, just think of it in quarters. 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.400 That's quite a kind of like quarters. 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.800 That's what every Fortune 500 company does. 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:17.599 Right. 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:19.760 But it it blows people's minds. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:27.679 And just being able to shrink the time horizon, I I forget the what the law is called, but like the project will take as much time as you give it. 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.000 Right. 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:33.280 And when you shrink that down, it becomes a prioritization exercise. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:46.559 But it also keeps the team in momentum so much better because you're not on this uh epic mile run as opposed to like a marathon. 00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.519 Um it it's been a huge help to us. 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.280 So I love that you said that, and I'm gonna re replay that over and over for my team. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:56.400 Like, hey, uh just just in case you were wondering. 00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:03.599 And and and here's the other thing that that allows you to do as well is it allows you to give feedback more quickly. 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:08.960 So a lot of times employees are waiting an entire year for their

performance review. 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:13.440 But what if you were giving that kind of feedback every quarter, right? 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:29.840 So that when the annual performance cycle comes for your overall company, it's like, hey, we've already been able to see the challenges, we've already been able to change course, we've already been able to move forward so that you're not having to hit this person with 12 months worth of, hey, you suck, right? 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.840 It's like you know what I mean? 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.800 It's like we've already been working on it, you know? 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:46.320 Yeah, I feel like we we had an intern start literally today, and uh I was going through like 12-week uh year very briefly, and like, yeah, we get the opportunity to give you feedback way more often. 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.440 And uh I feel like we're probably gonna spoil him because he's never had a yearly review. 00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.639 Um but it it's a good thing. 00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:09.840 Um so if if you're looking at um the leaders, yes, the books are important, but what advice would you give them to um start down that journey? 00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.679 So the first thing I would say is give yourself some grace, right? 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.960 Give yourself some grace. 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.639 You're not going to get it right uh right away. 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:28.480 And so give yourself some grace to unlearn the things that you've been doing and then learn the new things that you need. 00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:34.159 Um, and that leadership is not a destination, uh, it's a it's a journey, right? 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:38.559 So, so there's not gonna be a time where you're like, hey, I'm an amazing leader. 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:39.599 I'm here, right? 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:42.320 Like it's it's it's a it's an iterative journey. 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:51.119 And the best piece of advice that I got in my entire career was that if you are not making mistakes, you're not learning anything. 00:38:51.599 --> 00:39:00.159 And that freed me up from the perfectionism kind of engine that causes leaders to be overly performative. 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.679 They don't want to show any chinks in the armor, all that kind of stuff. 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:10.159 You're able to cast that aside when you accept that, hey, making mistakes, it's not ideal, but it's okay. 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:17.920 And it's important for you to deal with those mistakes so that you can grow and also model that behavior for the people coming behind you. 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:20.960 So that's definitely another clip that's getting played for the team. 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:29.360 I'm not sure I've heard it put that way of you know, making the mistake is part making the mistake is part of the process. 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.400 But that's a beautiful frame on it. 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:42.079 Um But uh Julia, as we're

approaching the end, what is something that you really enjoy talking about that you rarely get the chance to? 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.000 Oh man. 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.440 It doesn't have to be like business related, right? 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.320 Anything. 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:50.239 This is the wide open question. 00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.320 So I don't get the chance to talk about how much I love baking. 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:55.199 Whoa. 00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:55.920 All right. 00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:01.440 I don't think we've had this one before, but I I I went down the sourdough path a couple years ago. 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.800 So Yes. 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.280 So I'm learning to make sourdough. 00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:14.320 Uh and so, and the thing is for me, um, it ties into the reset for for me as a as a business owner and as a as a leader, right? 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.719 You're go, go, go, grind, grind, grind. 00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.440 And it's like, where is what what's your reprieve, right? 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.280 And people say, oh, well, I take a, you know, I take a spa day every six months. 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.599 And it's like, well, that means you're building up so much stress in the meantime. 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.679 So that that you know, that one spa day is not going to help release you. 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:41.840 And so for me, me baking on a weekly basis, I bake sandwich bread, I make pound cake for friends, but it allows me to unwind and just have me time. 00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.920 And so even if I mess something up, I'm like, oh, well, this recipe didn't come out. 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.320 It's just fun for me to go back and try again because there's no stress attached to it. 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.679 So yeah, I don't get a chance to talk about my baking at all. 00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.440 No, it that that's probably like book number five. 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:05.519 Like how I'm trying to think of something catchy, like bake like a rock or something like that. 00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.519 That'd be awesome. 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.760 There's some there's something in there. 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.440 Uh but um where can people go find out more? 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.599 We know the book's coming out on Amazon. 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.920 Uh, but where can people connect or uh maybe see about working with you? 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:21.039 Absolutely. 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.880 So so my website is is rockcareer.com. 00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.000 So if you're in interested in executive coaching services or anything like that, we've got a contact form there. 00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.599 And then my email is also on the site, hello at rockcareer.com. 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:42.320 Um, if you're looking for a speaker, uh you can go to thejuliarock.com uh because that's where my speaker reel is and and some of my keynote uh information. 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:44.639 And then I'm a LinkedIn gal. 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:51.360 So the fastest way to get in touch with me is to send me a connection request or a DM on LinkedIn. 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.119 That's my favorite platform. 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.960 So Julia Rock, I'm the only top voice uh Julia Rock on the platform. 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.440 So it'll be easy to be easy to find me. 00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.159 Very cool. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.000 I just out of curiosity, what are your kind of speaking topics? 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:16.480 Yeah, so so um so leadership and obviously the uncomplicated leadership message, but also burnout prevention and recovery for for leaders and employees. 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:31.199 So I talk about strategies uh around that, and then I talk about employee engagement um and and general and kind of the generational myth, because there's always this conversation of like, oh, Gen Z hates boomers and vice versa. 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:46.480 And what I have seen between coaching and my own lived experience is that a lot of that generational stuff is a myth because at its core, we're still people who want the same things, but we're at different stages of life, and so it sounds like there's some sort of dissonance when there really isn't. 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.639 But if we're willing to listen, we'd be able to find the common ground a lot more quickly. 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:52.559 Yeah, I I agree with you. 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.000 I wasn't when I made my comment earlier, I wasn't trying to say it. 00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:06.639 I think it's more the exposure with the new generation where they've grown up on social and they've seen way more than we probably saw as kids. 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.440 Uh yeah, it's so true. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:20.239 But I think the entire like how to build a team, how to keep a team happy, how to retain a team, how to progress them, that's probably a whole nother podcast. 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.599 So we'll leave that for another day. 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:22.480 Thank you. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:24.320 Thank you so much, Julia. 00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:25.440 It's been a pleasure. 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:33.199 And for all of you guys listening at home, that's another overpressure episode in the books, and we will see you guys again soon. 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:34.159 Thank you.