התמלול המלא של Selecting Your Unit & Unit Financing Options Pt. 2 with SandBox - Glamping, STR, Unique Stay, Outdoor Hospitality Unit Selection

00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:12.719 As far as cost on that, it's it's so site dependent on what you're looking at as far as the cost, right? 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.240 Every additional foot that you're running those utilities, the costs go up significantly. 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:29.279 But I do know in in this particular situation, one of the big considerations that we were going back and forth on was do you do more units with lower power consumption or capacity or fewer units with higher power? 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.360 And that's going to be something that everyone's going to run into, right? 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.759 That's that'll end up being one of your big constraints. 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:39.439 And so much of it's gonna come down to what you're looking to do and utilize um on the property. 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:50.639 So with this one, we had to choose to not put hot tubs in with some of these individual units for the time being until that upgrade happens down the road, and then we'll be able to add more amenities. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.920 So let's maybe like go down the list. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:00.319 If you're thinking about if you have 30 amp power to work with or 30 amp power, let's just say it's 50 amp. 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:15.519 How are you thinking about you know, the biggest items are gonna be your HVAC, which is, you know, most commonly probably gonna be a mini split, and then other big items would be microwave, fridge, oh, a stovetop. 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.040 If you're going with an electric or induction stovetop. 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:28.079 I guess how are you how are you thinking about your let's say you're a power, you're a really power-constrained unit. 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:29.439 How are you thinking about it? 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.279 And then if you have like all the power in the world, what's your unit gonna look like? 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:38.879 We'll we'll start out by breaking it down and understanding what really is the difference between 30 amp and 50 amp. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:46.000 It's deceiving to think that, you know, all right, your your 50 amp is only you know a little bit more, you know, maybe just under twice as much power. 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:53.439 But the reality is 50 amp operates at 220 volt while your 30 amp operates at 110 volt. 00:05:53.600 --> 00:06:00.240 So a 50 amp hookup is actually more than 3x the amount of power that you have on a on a 30 amp hookup. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:09.920 Um so it's significantly different in terms of what you can operate off of that, but it also requires now making sure you're running different voltage and you got to have the utilities for that. 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:18.959 So when we go up to 50 amp, in having more than 3x the amount of power on that, I think it's just just under 4x amount, uh, we are able to run a whole lot more. 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:30.800 So as far as HVAC, I always prefer to intentionally oversize the HVAC a little bit more than what you need for the unit, because better to be able to handle extreme cold, extreme hot in the unit so that your guests are nice and comfortable. 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:32.240 So we'll end up doing that. 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:41.839 But if we're constrained on the power to to a 30 amp, then what we're gonna do is we're gonna pair that HVAC to be just what that amount of square footage in that environment is gonna require. 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:50.000 And and so for I know the big things that I'm thinking about when I'm designing a unit like a kitchenette is super important for me. 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:56.240 And so for me, that's mini fridge and stovetop and a microwave microwave, ideally. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:02.000 But for us on a 30 amp system, that's not really that's not really gonna be realistic, is it? 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:03.519 To have that with a mini split. 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:04.240 Absolutely. 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:11.519 What you may run into is where you can't run everything at the same time on the 30 amp, but you absolutely can run all of those. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.839 So for instance, in the the A-frames we did at Ponderosa, we did it on 30 amps. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.560 We did a 12k BTU in that unit. 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:25.120 The interior space on that unit's just about 300 square foot, which is plenty to be able to keep that hot and cold. 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:33.439 We had a stovetop, induction cooktop in there, and then we have a mini fridge, and your mini mini fridges don't pull much power, so that's not a big constraint. 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.560 Your big ones are gonna be your HVAC, your micro microwave, and then if you do induction cooktops. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:47.680 So in that particular unit, you're not gonna be able to run your microwave, your induction cooktop at full power, and your HVAC at the same time. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:54.639 Um, and so that's gonna be something that's gonna take a little bit of education to the guests to make sure that they're not tripping breakers, but it's gonna happen. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:02.480 Like without a doubt, somebody's gonna have all three of those things going at once, and yeah, all of a sudden your microwave is causing you to trip a breaker. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:07.680 Um, it's also why we designed the systems where it's really easy and accessible uh utilities. 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:17.519 And we put all of ours in the the back of the unit so that if a guest ends up calling, hey, I tripped a breaker, you don't have to have a technician go in there and go into the unit, disturb the guests. 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:22.160 They can come around to the backside of the unit, flip that breaker, and get you back on off to the races quickly and easily. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:23.279 Hello, listeners. 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:24.959 I wanted to share a quick story. 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:31.839 I recently started to

help a client set up their three properties, two RV resorts and one glamping resort. 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.519 And they wanted me to help roll out their new tech stack. 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.879 And at the center of that is the PMS or the property management software. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:51.840 These clients decided to go with storable new book, and thank goodness they did because the property management software is the nucleus of everything that you'll set up your website, your social media, your bookings, your cleanings, everything. 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:59.600 And it really handles the entire process from both the front customer-facing side as well as the back end and coordinating cleaners and things like that. 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:15.200 So it's, you know, setting up your photos and your pricing and your dynamic pricing and revenue management and your unit information and ensuring a smooth and customizable shopping cart experience to ensure high conversion rate with your customers. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.200 And then they have all these great automations. 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:26.240 It can send texts and emails to your guests before they arrive on the day they arrived or after to get feedback and reviews, and you can track all your financial performance. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.759 And then it also helps with the back end and analyzing your data. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.399 I honestly couldn't be happier with the experience. 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:43.759 If I called the new book helpline, I get an answer right away with someone who can help me with like three or four standing meetings each week with different members of their teams to set up the different capabilities and softwares. 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:49.279 We're even using them to set up these property websites, we're using them for digital marketing services and SEO. 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:51.919 And honestly, it has been excellent. 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:58.960 I so I chased down Storable New Book to ask them if they would be sponsors of the podcast because I really believed in their product. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.559 Fortunately, they were willing. 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:02.240 So they are today's sponsors. 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:08.720 So if you're unhappy with your PMS or you're launching a product and shopping, definitely give them a call. 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:10.720 They'll give you a free software demonstration. 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:18.320 And if you let them know that you came from the Outdoor Hospitality Podcast, they'll give you 15% off your new book signature subscriptions. 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:21.120 Can't recommend storable new book highly enough. 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:22.080 Go check them out. 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:22.720 Thanks. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:31.279 And what about if, you know, I know we kind of talked about this a little bit, but using propane or natural gas, like there's certain elements. 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:38.799 If you

are highly power constrained, maybe you have a unit that's running off solar or battery or something, or like you're off-grid. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.960 A couple things you could do is you could run a propane stovetop. 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.000 And you could also, there is propane. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.879 I mean, there's definitely propane heaters, but and is there propane AC as well? 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.279 You can do your AC won't be propane, but you can do just about everything else, right? 00:10:55.360 --> 00:11:01.440 You can run your heater, your hot water, cook top, your cooktops, your refrigerators, you can get propane refrigerators. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.679 So there's a lot of ways to put that on propane if you have access to that. 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:11.600 It'll add a little bit of potential complex it, complexity, because now there's another utility that you have to run to it. 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:12.639 But I love propane. 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:24.399 So if that is something that you've got accessibility to, uh typically what we're gonna see on a property if you're running propane is you're gonna have the really large um propane tanks, and then you're gonna have to have a truck coming out and fill that for you. 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:30.879 Um, so just recognizing that you know, additional costs and additional things to make sure that you're on top of for maintenance. 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:38.320 Yeah, and that is that's kind of an example of, you know, obviously it if you can run everything off electrical, that's pretty much always gonna be best. 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:40.159 It simplifies things, yeah. 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:40.720 Yeah. 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:47.519 But like, and then but if you had to run something off propane, that would take a, you know, it would be a longer operational expense. 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.919 And you'd have to be replacing that and having having it be serviced more often and things like that. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:53.279 So it's kind of a trade-off. 00:11:53.440 --> 00:12:02.000 And that's stuff that we can help out with too is you know, when we design a unit, we're gonna go through and we're gonna do all of the energy calculations uh and the needs for that particular unit. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:07.519 And then we can break down and show you in your area, you know, here's what you're paying per kilowatt hour for electricity. 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.519 Here's our estimate of what we're gonna be using and operating, and then here's the cost. 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.240 So we can we can help with all of that and doing the math and figure out what makes the most sense. 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:17.679 And every place is different. 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.399 Again, it's like it's you're gonna hear this answer time and time again. 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.639 No two sites are gonna be the same. 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:23.360 Mm-hmm. 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:24.960

Yeah, definitely true. 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.000 Is there anything else in in terms of utilities we might have forgotten? 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.399 I think a big one is gonna be understanding septic. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.840 So understanding what your septic requirements are gonna be. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.600 Do you have to have a leech field? 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:37.600 What's the sizing of that per unit? 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:44.879 So there's a lot that's gonna go into that, and that is gonna be working directly with your city to understand what their expectations and requirements are for it. 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:54.240 But it's easy to look at a site and be, all right, we have this much acreage, we can put this much many units on it, and then not think about what dedicated space you're gonna have to have for a leech field for that. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:13:08.879 Another thing that we've explored for special events, easy one you can do is, and that's when we were experiencing ponderosa, another one we were talking about doing weddings out there, and that all of a sudden increases the amount of septic needs that you would have. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:16.480 So the county wasn't okay necessarily with us coming in and doing large events on the additional septic system. 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:22.799 So that we were able to work with them to figure out, hey, for these events, we're gonna bring in trailers with bathrooms, and then that can get shipped out. 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.960 So there's different different things you can do based on what your your use case and needs are. 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.960 But that's a big consideration on definitely thinking about the septic and these fields. 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.240 Yeah, definitely. 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:42.960 Septic is probably the thing that is most common to the the most commonly like the complex things that comes up in in projects that that slows things down. 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:51.440 So make sure you have a good consultant or expert in that department because it it's it's always a big consideration. 00:13:51.759 --> 00:14:11.440 And I know for Ponderosa, because our units were technically RVs and we had you know sewer line runs that were going out, you know, it was important for us that we had to get heated lines and things like that that would run in the winter during freezing temperatures was like a big important thing. 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:20.559 So thinking about how these different utilities are gonna work at all different stages of the year, or making sure your pipes aren't exposed and those aren't gonna freeze and things of that nature. 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:22.240 And that's actually an interesting one too. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.440 So for that project, because it's classified as an RV, it had to be temporary hookups. 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.240 So we weren't able to hard plumb into the septic system. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.720 That was one of the requirements that the municipality and city had for us on that. 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.039 So that's why you're talking we had to have those heated lines. 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:43.759 So this is going to be running all through the year, and it had to be a temporary, easy to remove if you know we needed to move the units. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.600 So again, kind of understanding what the city's expecting to see. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:48.399 Yeah. 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:49.600 All right, I'm trying to think. 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.679 Is there anything else on the utility side? 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.600 There's there's so much more, but I think we can jump on to the next. 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.840 If anybody has utility questions about your site, honestly, it's a great opportunity. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.480 Just reach out to us over at Sandbox and we can jump on and help work through that process with you. 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:06.960 But it really, like we said, it's going to be site defendant. 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.080 So just jump on a call and we'll we'll help share knowledge where we have it. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:10.960 Yeah, definitely. 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:16.480 I think doing those load calcs and and doing going through all those different pieces are super important. 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:18.320 Let's talk a little bit about financing. 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.240 I know financing is massive for, you know. 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:23.919 Talking my favorite part of this. 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:24.399 Yeah. 00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:28.799 Maybe you could start by telling us what what you guys use, what you offer at Sandbox. 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:32.320 I know you guys have some of the some of the best solutions available. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.480 And then we could talk about kind of more broadly what any other options might be as well. 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.080 So, what I get really excited about is creative financing options. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:46.000 You know, with these units, a lot of times when people are coming in, you're putting a lot of investment dollars into getting the property. 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.000 And then all of a sudden we got to get these units out there. 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:53.200 And we've either gone and we've taken that SBA loan or we've already exhausted other financing options. 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:59.919 Um, so that's why Sandbox wanted to come up with some creative, different ways that may not have to take on additional debt. 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.000 And so one of the ways that we do that is through a lease structure. 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.960 So you can come in, you can lease the unit. 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.720 We still own the asset, but you're able to lease that. 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.279 Uh, and we're able to do that with minimal money down. 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.120 It gives a lot more flexibility. 00:16:15.279 -->

00:16:19.440 And then the way that that's structured is that actually becomes an expense against the business. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:26.799 So instead of if you take a loan out and finance traditional financing on a unit, you can take your bonus depreciation on it. 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:32.480 If it's a Park model RV and it's equipment, so you're able to take that depreciation. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:40.320 But a lot of a lot of these properties, when you're starting out, you already have so many expenses, it's not as advantageous to take that depreciation. 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:48.080 So when you structure it as a lease, now that becomes an expense against the business, which you're able to have for the the entirety of the lease structure. 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.120 Um, and there's a lot of different ways that we can structure that. 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:57.039 Uh, but I think it gives the most flexibility and you don't have to take that asset on your books. 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.720 So you don't have to have any additional debt on that, which is nice. 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:09.440 Yeah, still a liability that you have, but it definitely, if you're trying to take loans out or you leverage loans for other parts of the property, it just frees that up a little bit. 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:14.240 Yeah, and not having to come up with the capital for the upfront cost of your units, you know. 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.240 Oftentimes the units will be half or over half the total construction cost. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.039 So if you can reduce your capital need by 50%. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:26.000 And a lot of times, you know, that's just the only choice people are gonna have is to go to go that route. 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.559 So, and yeah, that's definitely a good way. 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.759 We do that as well. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:40.480 So, what what we'll do is we'll sit down with a customer and we'll we'll walk through and try to understand from a holistic view what their situation is, and then come up with the best financing path for you. 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:45.440 And so what while I love the leasing option, it's not always the best structure to use. 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:55.839 Um, sometimes it may make more sense to do traditional financing, but we're gonna end up looking that at that from a, okay, what are your other liabilities that you have? 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:57.519 Where are you getting the cash from? 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.559 How can we best structure this to be tax advantaged? 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.559 Uh, just to make sure that we're we're pulling the levers that best help you for your situation. 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:11.680 Yeah, and it is really, I think most, I mean, most unit suppliers aren't offering leases and offering that option. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.400 So it is a pretty, pretty cool thing that you guys do. 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:16.960 And that I know you have a ton of experience with from Sandy Vans. 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:21.039 I mean, you guys have been doing that at Sandy Vans since the very beginning, so it's kind of a good hack. 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:31.920 Yeah, and I think that's kind of what with why we wanted to bring that into uh you know into the clamping space, is it's a structure that has been really, really effective for us through Sandy Vans. 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.720 Uh, I would say probably 60% of the vehicles that we sell are utilizing that structure. 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:42.319 There's some even some other advantages that come with it when you're doing it on a on a vehicle as opposed to a unit. 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.000 Um, it is gonna depend a lot too, as far as how we classify these things. 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:52.640 So we did talk a little bit on the the first podcast we did about understanding whether we're doing park model RVs or if we're doing modular construction. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:59.680 So depending on what path and permitting route you're going, it's going to change the options that are available within the financing. 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.400 So, what we're talking about right now is primarily gonna be what you'll see for park model RVs. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:15.200 One of the reasons we love that so much is because it's typically gonna be the easiest to get permitted and it has the most creative financing solutions out there that we can utilize and some really great tax advantages. 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.480 What are any other big financing options or routes? 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:30.000 There are some other things in the world that you again, if you you jump in and talk to us, we are looking at doing where there'd be some opportunities for Sandbox to come in as a partner with the business. 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.319 And so we could provide the unit and do what's called an a light kind exchange. 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.720 So we'd have a value for those units. 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:42.720 Um, we could provide those units or a portion of those units and then do that in a light-kind exchange for equity. 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:48.400 But this is definitely a case-by-case basis and is something that we're doing with only a very select number of properties. 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:59.440 Um, so it's not something that we're really advertising, but it is something that uh if you're interested in doing, that's a way that we're looking to come on uh as a bit more of a strategic partner with the right the right properties. 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:00.559 Hello, listeners. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.759 This is Sherry Halala, founder of Sage Outdoor Advisory. 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.200 If you're launching an outdoor hospitality project like Clamping, we can help. 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.440 We offer feasibility studies and appraisals. 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:17.680 What that means is we look at your specific market and proposed business offering and

complete an in-depth analysis to make sure that your planned business will be profitable. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:25.440 Getting a second opinion on your proposal and forecasted financials is critical to understand before you spend years of your time and hundreds of thousands of dollars. 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:30.480 This is particularly important if you are looking to raise money for your project from a bank or private investors. 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:36.160 They are going to want to see this type of deep dive analysis from an independent third-party specialist in the industry. 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:44.799 We at Sage have completed well over 250 feasibility studies and appraisals in outdoor hospitality in North America in the last four years. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.799 So we understand what it takes to bring a project from concept to reality. 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:55.440 If this sounds like it could be helpful to you, you can go to our website, SageOutdoorAdvisory.com, and schedule a call with our team. 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.119 While you're there, check out our proprietary glamping database map too. 00:20:59.279 --> 00:20:59.599 Thanks. 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:00.559 Now back to the show. 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:14.160 Yeah, and then there's potentially there's some routes as far as having the units be like a revenue share and like the revenue share model, and I'm trying to think. 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:15.839 And then there's traditional financing, right? 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:22.079 So there is equipment financing where you might have a lender come in specialize in equipment financing. 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.920 Those are usually only five years, like five to ten years at that. 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.599 And then and it's a much shorter amortization schedule. 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.759 And then there is if you can get your units. 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:48.720 One of the things I forget if we talked about on the original call, but it's probably worth diving into again is if you're going the route of your units being considered real property, that is a part of the of the land essentially, or part of the property value. 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:49.920 They're affixed. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:56.000 They're they have real estate taxes associated with them, you know, that would be considered uh real property. 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:04.559 The other route is kind of how it was for us at Ponderosa where our Units were park model cabins, park model RV cabins that have VIN numbers. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:09.279 And they're very those two paths have very distinct advantages and disadvantages. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.640 And it really is just going to come down to the specific property. 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:21.920 So for Ponderosa, we had no issues getting financing on that property with the units being the park model RVs. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:30.960 But for the other property that we're working on, actually the lender, a different lender for that property wouldn't want to consider park model RVs part of the lending package. 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:48.319 So for example, if it's a$9 million project,$4 million of that is the units, and the lender saying, hey, we're not going to finance your units over the 25 years as RVs, you know, that's a massive consideration for your financing. 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:56.079 You know, if so what we actually did in that route was we did have the zoning flexibility to go a hotel route. 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.720 So it's much more likely that they're going to be well, affixed to a foundation. 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:05.440 So they might still they might actually still ship as R VIA certified. 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:07.039 No, it actually won't be. 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:12.559 So with that, what that's going to be is called uh factory built modular construction. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.880 And so for that, what we're gonna do is we actually get the building plans. 00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:21.920 Just like if you built traditional construction and you built on site, we're gonna take those building plans. 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.400 We're gonna have a licensed engineer, a structural engineer in that particular state. 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.640 Uh so in this one, we're doing a project in Arizona. 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.559 So we're working with an engineer there. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.079 They're going to review those plans. 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.599 We're gonna get that reviewed by the municipality that's going in. 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:37.680 We're gonna get an engineering stamp on that. 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:49.119 And then just like if we built on site and we had an inspector come out for the state of California, which is where I'm at right now, there's seven inspections that are done on traditional construction. 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:59.519 We would have those same inspections done, but it's a third-party inspection agency that's licensed by the particular state to then come out and do all of those exact inspections. 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.759 So it's it's going to be far more similar to traditional on-site construction. 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:10.400 We're just doing it in a factory because we can take advantages of factory built and systems and having all of our machines right here. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:12.880 And so we just pick up those efficiencies. 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.319 So that's what we're going to end up doing for that particular project. 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:51.519 So kind of zooming out and and resummarizing that, if you're going to the park model cabin, R VIA certified, RV via Vin number route, there's big advantages of big advantages of that in terms of speed, affordability, factory built, ease of being able to move things around, taxes tend to be a lot lower versus going them, having them be permanently affixed and having them be a part of the property value and the real property where they

will you'll get property taxes associated with those values. 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:56.960 But depending on how you're structuring your financing, one might make more sense than the other. 00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:57.839 Absolutely right. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.920 So so much of that, the banks look at them completely differently, right? 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:10.880 What you're talking about for fixed, that you can get a traditional construction loan for, and then that's what you're you're able to put into that, and it's treated just like real estate versus the equipment route. 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.519 So we're going the park model RV, it's a structure, it has a VIN number, it has a title. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:21.119 That what is you're doing equipment financing or what it's called is actually a shadow loan. 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:24.799 Um, yeah, all the way back from you're taking loans on cattle and things. 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:42.960 Don't ask me how we got to shadow from cattle, but um where you'll run into problems with that is it's easy for them to finance per unit, but when you're trying to group multiple together, so we're gonna talk about doing a large property here, um, where we're gonna do 10 plus units. 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:49.920 They can't do just a one big shadow loan for 10 units, it would have to be a loan for every single individual unit. 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:54.720 So it gets far more complex to do the equipment financing when you're doing a lot of them. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:02.240 Um, we are starting to work with some of these financing companies that are figuring out how to how to batch all that together in single ones. 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:13.279 And that's a big reason why we brought this lease program together to keep it to where it's just one structured lease, it's on all the units and keep things really, really simple rather than having to do multiple different loans for these. 00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:25.920 Um so that's gonna be where you'll find the bigger the property, the bank is typically gonna want to see that to start to be into a single construction loan or more traditional real estate loan. 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.640 But again, these are there's all the fun financing levers that we can start pulling. 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:31.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:44.480 So, and if if you're if you're kind of saying, like, wow, there's a lot to this, the all the more reason to, you know, give Evan a callant sandbox and and and start to go through it and have someone who can help guide you through it because there is a lot. 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:53.119 You know, I've been in this for seven, eight years now, and I'm still learning new things and understanding the nuanced differences between all of them, and there's a lot of gray areas. 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.200 Let's see, anything else on financing? 00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:00.559 Once again, there's a lot, but really it's gonna be best to

just have the conversation. 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:04.400 I think financing are probably the conversations I love having the most. 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:10.079 You know, I'm not not a tax strategist by any means, but I love trying to be efficient with dollars. 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:19.839 Um, and so that's what we want to kind of help help you do is figure out how can we be efficient, how can we be efficient on taxes with that, um, and best deploy the dollars we have to get the most out of it. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:35.680 Tell me a little bit more about maybe you could just tell us about a little bit more about Sandbox as a company, what you guys offer, what your strengths are, and you know, if there's anything else you're offering besides, you know, A-frame cabins and these really sick custom cabin units. 00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:39.200 Well, custom cabin units is is really the name of the game for us. 00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:49.519 We do have some pre-engineered offerings, but what we're trying to do at Sandbox is partner with resorts that have an overall experience, right? 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.839 We're just all experiential hospitality. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.319 We want to make sure that that experience of the property is carried through into the units. 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:01.279 Uh, and so with that, what we want to be doing is building units that are specific to the property. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:05.039 So we want to work with you to come up with the unique and custom design. 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:13.119 What I feel like I've seen so much in the industry is where you know there's a few key unit providers out there and they're selling to everybody. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.680 And then you have two properties next to each other that have the same unit that people are staying in. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:30.720 And even if the property experience is very different, when a customer is looking at that and coming in, they see it as a very similar, oh, I've already stayed in this type of unit, I've had that experience, even if the property is completely different. 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.400 So we want to make sure that we're maintaining the essence of that property and bringing that through the unit. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.720 So our vision is doing custom. 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.759 Um now to do that, we got to make sure that we're doing it scale. 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.759 So that's why we're working with properties that are doing typically five or more units. 00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:53.680 If you are looking to do, you know, maybe for a personal property or things like that, and you're looking to add one or two units there, that's where we have our pre-engineered designs. 00:28:53.839 --> 00:29:06.559 And so we have something that you can come in, you can customize, you can pick your cabinetry color and your flooring color and and you know, wall panels, and have something that feels unique uh coming out of that, but it's going to be pre-engineered, it's the same structure. 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:15.920 So we do have both offerings, but really what Standbox is is looking to do and what we're focused on is building high-end custom luxury units for properties. 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:16.720 Yeah. 00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.559 And I can't attest that they're awesome. 00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.480 At least the ones, the ones that we've gotten to design and build together are awesome. 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:34.559 And and they're actually, even though they were custom, actually, they were some of the most affordable from a value perspective, cost per square foot. 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.160 Just because they're custom, they definitely didn't break the bank for us. 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:40.880 Actually, sandbox was some of our most affordable options. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:46.880 So we didn't necessarily have to pay the premium prices for the for the premium product in this case. 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.640 So it's awesome for us. 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:50.000 That's where we want to, yeah. 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:51.920 We also want to make sure we're trying to be. 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.359 We we look at everything. 00:29:53.519 --> 00:30:01.119 These are cash-flowing assets that we're building, and so we want to try to build the unit that's going to maximize how much your revenue you're able to get. 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:07.440 So we're trying to build it at the best, the best price point, but get you the highest you know, NOI on the property. 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:09.200 Is there anything else that you guys are offering? 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.960 Like saunas, hot tubs, any other add-ons, anything like that? 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:19.359 You you teed me up for that because Connor Connor just asked when we were at the glamping show, they're like, Hey, we need a couple saunas. 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.759 I was like, hold on, let me let me see what I can do. 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:26.400 And so, yeah, we put the engineering team on designing out of sauna, and I am so excited for it. 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:31.039 Connor and I both big fans of Contrast Therapies, a little sauna cold plunge. 00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:40.480 So we built a really cool unit that is yeah, that's it's like this arch roof kind of dome, almost cave feeling when you get into it, all micro cement interior. 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:53.759 But you have right in the entryway where the cold plunge is, you've got this circular skylight, just a small area of beam and light down, and then back into that you step into uh into the the sauna with similar kind of having those porthole style windows. 00:30:54.319 --> 00:31:00.000 Um so that's one that I'm really, really excited about, and we're we're pumped to get that into production here in a little bit. 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:01.599 Heck yeah. 00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:02.400 Heck yeah. 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:10.960 And then I know one of the

things that you did with us was you helped us actually with all of our linens and our bedding and pillows and stuff. 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.880 Is that something you're offering to the public, or do you just offer that us that because we're homies? 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:23.200 Yeah, we did that for you guys, but so yeah, here at Sandy Vans, we not only do we do the van builds, but we have the full rental fleet. 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:30.079 And so with that, we've we've done quite a bit in terms of what's needed for right turnover of hospitality, so buy-in, cheats, lens, things like that. 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.559 And and we've we've found some really good good partners for that. 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.480 So we've extended that out to you guys and happy to do that for anyone. 00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:41.680 So again, working with with us, we want to understand what your needs are and where we can jump in and help you. 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.279 You know, our goal and focus is doing that on on units. 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:49.839 But tell us what your other needs are and and we'll see if we can can help out in that area. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:50.960 And we'll do what we can. 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:57.200 And some areas we might be, you know, be able to help out and be the right price, and other areas we we won't, but we'll do our best. 00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:58.000 I love it. 00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:59.359 I know it was massive for us. 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:05.359 I got to wear one of our custom embroidered robes a couple weeks ago, and it was pretty, pretty bougie. 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.119 I've still only seen the photos of them. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.200 I'm hoping you send me one of something. 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.400 Oh man, shit. 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:12.960 No, I saw them when we were out there doing the deployment. 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.599 They it was all in these massive bags. 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:18.720 Uh, and so I just saw the bags and we were so busy doing so many things. 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.480 I was like, God, I want to see what all the robes and towels and and how that came out. 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.640 Um, but I I've only seen the photos. 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:26.079 I never actually looked at them. 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:39.359 The last time over your driving through, I was driving through with Eric, and then we we kept going and we were like pulling up to San Diego, and I went to the back in his camper, and I opened a drawer and just found like 10 of the towels and robes and stuff. 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:40.960 And he's like, dude, they're so nice. 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.559 I was like, Oh, you just stole them, and he's like, Yeah, dude, I still they're so nice. 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:47.359 So yeah, he just swiped a bunch. 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:49.119 That that was when I was happy. 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:55.920 So, you know, Elijah, who's who's managing that property now, doing doing the operations, he is incredible. 00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:10.880 Just having the the the eye for detail and refinement and and understanding the customer experience and making sure that everything from you know the fit, feel, finish, touch, the way things open, you know, the the drawers, the utensils, everything. 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.200 And and he was fired up on all the linen. 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:18.559 So that I was I was happy, uh, happy to hear that past Elijah's uh test and we're we're doing good. 00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:23.920 Anything else that maybe I haven't touched on that would be worth diving into? 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:34.400 I mean, there's there's a lot to it, but I think I think it's been really incredible for me is is working with with you, who's such a knowledgeable person in this space. 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:43.440 And so I think no matter what somebody is is looking to do, you know, I you are over there willing to help share and lend a guiding hand. 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.920 And that's also what we're looking to do here at Sandbox. 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:52.799 So whether there's opportunity to work together or we can just you know hang out and and have a good conversation and try to share some some knowledge. 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.200 I'm really excited to see where this industry's going. 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:00.160 I know you're you've been a huge part in this industry for the last, man, what's it been, seven years? 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.680 Yeah, I guess since 2018, I guess. 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.720 Yeah, so eight years, something like that? 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:08.079 Eight years, yeah. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:08.719 Yeah. 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:21.840 So it's it's been cool seeing, yeah, just seeing how connected and plugged in you are in the in the uh in the world and excited to help bring a little bit of my expertise from the production, construction um side of things as well. 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:45.840 Yeah, and and I think getting the chance to work with you and design something really unique, I'm starting to realize the value in that, especially in these last this last year of operating all these properties, looking at a lot of different deals, looking at a lot of people who are really successful in the space is trying to be in that top 10%, that top 5%, that top 1% of your market is really a good place to be. 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.519 It's it's so much easier from an operational standpoint. 00:34:49.679 --> 00:35:05.840 You know, if you spend a little bit more on your unit to make it really unique or have these viral touch points, like having a really unique exterior or big windows, or you know, these really cool designs or or amenities, you know, that does a lot of the heavy lifting for you. 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:15.440 And, you know, whether your unit's making 200 bucks a night or 300 bucks a night, your your cost to clean and launder that room is going to be relatively similar. 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:21.760 You know, it might be 25 bucks for labor, labor, and it might be 25 bucks for laundry, give or take, depending on your situation. 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:29.440 And but if you're three, if you know, if you're at 300 bucks a night, that percentage of that laundry cost is way, way lower. 00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:41.039 And so, you know, having a nicer unit and having something that does your marketing for you is is a makes your life so much easier on the operational side, on the back end, on the stabilization. 00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.760 And I think that's one of the things you've really helped us with, Evan. 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:44.719 So thank you. 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.119 Well, happy to happy to be able to help there. 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:49.440 I'm happy you're the one guiding that side of things. 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:51.199 I'm just here to design cool stuff. 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.000 That's what I love to do. 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.320 And it's what gets me excited to get out of bed in the morning. 00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.159 And I want to continue to do that with more people. 00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.480 So if you got unique and cool ideas. 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:05.920 If people want to get in touch with you to, you know, get a quote, consult, get some ideas going, like what's the best way for them to do that? 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:11.440 Best way is to reach out to us via our website, which is sandboxstay.com. 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.800 Awesome. 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:13.440 Awesome. 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:14.400 Thanks so much, Evan. 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:15.840 Always a pleasure having you on the show. 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:20.719 And I can't wait to see what other crazy things we've cooked up and made six months from now. 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.039 Oh man, there's some cool things in the pipeline. 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.880 I don't know if you've you've even seen yet, but we got some fun things coming. 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:27.760 All right. 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:28.559 Cheers. 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:29.679 Thanks so much.