התמלול המלא של 047: Josh Grider

months before, you know, but but it was really fun, because I hadn't had that liberty to do that, or somebody is patient is added more to have my hand in the recording as much to where I really knew where everything was, like I, you know, had recorded in the past, and it was like, the band did their thing. And I was cutting vocals, and a producer was like talking to me through the booth. And I wasn't just like, as much in the record, you know, like the technical side of it. So it was really fun to do that. Yeah, it also sort of made it take a really long time. But I was able to put a pretty good team together. And, and, and it's out, you know, it's funny, because I spent 365 days, and you know, there's limitations on everything you do on this record was limited by, you know, budgets, timelines, my imagination, I think, you know, it's this, like, these are just the songs that are the songs that I could come up with, you know, but it's really liberating to me on release day, because now, it's no longer just on me, it's still on me to talk about the record tour promoted. But now, now it's on all of us, you know, I mean, I had my little 216 family of Kickstarters, that helped me pay for it. And it couldn't happen without them, or it wouldn't happen the way it did without them. But now, it's everybody at large, you know what I mean? Like we're posting, we're here on this chart. But if we go higher, that's totally, we're all together now. And that's, that's, it feels like a little bit of the load is off my shoulders, and I've transferred it a little bit. It's like, Alright, cool if you dig it by, or stream it, or tweet about it, or just tell one person or 10 people or whatever, so that is definitely walking a little lighter in my shoes today. Thomas Mooney  9:03   Yeah, um, you mentioned Adam, and like, just, I haven't you're a little bit more of a, I guess your fingerprint your handprint on the pulse of it. It kind of reminds me of Did you watch that documentary with about Dr. Dre and Jimmy IV? When you hear that part, like where he's doing the about Jimmy and like working with Springsteen, and he gets taken to the side and says, like, your job here is to indulge me so indulge me even. Like that's what it kind of reminded Josh Grider  9:36   me of your snare sounds for if we're gonna spend two days getting a snare sound. Yeah, in the end won't matter. Just indulge me. Yeah. No, that's, that's really cool that you mentioned that. Adam is a is a patient and beautiful man, you know, yeah. And I've known is really great because Adam was the first guy. I mean, my very first the Josh Ryder pan self titled first wreck. You're not made out of college, you know, on my own with my own name on it. I did it at Cedar Creek with john Silva at a motor. I wanted, I wanted to, I wanted the atom motor Cedar Creek, Lloyd Maines trifecta. But I could only afford to have the three. So I ended up with the atom motor, Cedar Creek, you know, john Silva was the assistant engineer. But that was my first like, I mean, I don't know, just Adams been a friend for a long time. So. And then he's mixed a couple things for me recently, like the eugenol Drive, like the broke down thing He mixed. And I just, I did gala dog, I think what's going on out there? And, you know, like I said, everybody I worked with on this record. I mean, aside from like, the band, I didn't have personal relationships with them. But you know, the producer. And, you know, Adam, and I just had these personal relationships that were way deeper than just this record, you know, so I think that, that really, like, I don't have it translated, but it sure was nice for me, because I could come to them as Bros. It's not like, I'm just handing you a check. And you're just doing the surface. It's like, they're they were more invested in it. You know what I mean? Yeah, they had some more heart in it, I think. Thomas Mooney  11:14   Yeah. Well, that's like, Okay, how have you approached, record making and songwriting being the fact that you're so many years into it now that you're a lot more comfortable and like, even though you're expanding, you're challenging your songwriting ability and trying different things. Still, you're probably more familiar with and comfortable with who you are as a voice as a songwriter, as a artist. Going into this record, like how comfortable were you, knowing what you wanted to do? And being Josh Grider  11:56   more than I've ever been, like, 100% to now. I mean, more than I've ever been, except maybe, like, the very first thing you do? Yeah. When when you're just, you don't know any better, you know, and it's just reckless. And it's just awesome. And not that great. You know, but it's all it's just all guts, and it's all heart and it's all soul. And you haven't been told no, you know, yes. It's that, you know, that first band that first love that first first thing, you know, and then it comes out, and it doesn't do as well. And then you get in your head and you spend, you know, 1520 years trying to sort all that out. So, you know, the first record you make for passion, and then all of a sudden, you got to make it now there's now there's an expectation, you have to make another record, even in the college band day. So then start writing and you start writing for a record. And for most of my 20s I would just write for record, like, I got 10 songs written. Okay, cool. Yeah, I call myself a songwriter. But that was not a songwriter. I was a guy who could write a song, you know what I mean? But I would just try to get a pile of songs together. And it wasn't like, well, we got 30 songs, we're gonna pick the 10 best there was like, yeah, we're just taking these 10 because these are the 10 we got, you know what I mean? Yeah. And they were honest, and earnest attempts, and they were the best that I could muster at that point. And for what I knew is how to do it. But you know, this was this was up through, you know, the, the Josh

Becker band, The Josh guard trio kind of those days. And then I went to Nashville, and, and have my mind absolutely blown by the songwriting community, and I really came in contact with and met and learn what songwriters are. And they are, and I knew what Wilkins, you know, Walt had produced in my 2007 record, and Walt is a songwriter, but I didn't appreciate that part of it. He was, he was more of an artist to me down here, you know, and I knew he'd written the songs, but like, what a real writer does dedication to the craft, they get up every day and write something really, really right, you know, and that that blew my head off, you know, and I was very fortunate to get into a publishing situation, that challenged me that that made me that really opened my eyes to that. And so I started writing so much more. So then when record time would come. I had way more songs to choose from, yeah, it wasn't just, oh, we just got these songs, like we got all these songs cool. Let's find how certain things work together. And at this point, I'm signed to this little label, you know, Trent willman, was producing, you know, the two things I did with them. And, and Tim devoir is kind of the head of it all. And Tim de blah. His history is so I mean, you know, you can look him up if you're not familiar with the name as I say, I know you are, but I'm just saying people listening like he introduced Brooks Didn't he was an incredible record, man. But he also wrote she got the gold mine. I got the shaft like he had this incredible manager. He was an incredible songwriter. Like he just had this incredible music group. So he's kind of at the helm of this. So as I'm writing all these songs and trends producing it, you know, it's got gunners working, and there's all these influences. And they're not typical jobs, you got to do this. But I'm a pretty empathetic person, you know, just vibes in what things want, you know, so there was a controlling thing that happened. Yeah. So it was like, What is what we want to do long term. So we got to think about this and think about this, you know, and it just steers your your thoughts. And like, nobody put a gun to my head that recording those tunes that I did. And I'm proud of those records. And I stand behind, and I play those songs every night. But making that record on a label with that was a whole different way of making a record for me. So we did though, for this project, I funded it. And it was the same process of looking back at a group assignments are picking the ones, but because I funded it, I just felt so free. Like they're just like, I had 216 people, basically, that I had to either mail CDs, or vinyl or do house concerts or do whatever we are exchanging for the next big, whatever the hell I like. And I'm more at peace with who I am just as a person, because that's a function of age. And growing up, you know, I told somebody the other day is the first record I've ever made, that I owned a house while I was making the record. I just doing adulting sort of things, you know, and just that, like it's a trivial thing, but it's a big thing. It's just a perspective shift that happens just in my life as a human outside of music. But it directly affects the songs, you know, yeah. So I started picking these songs and finding these songs. And you know, good people really was an anchor for the record. Bibi, no good people was a, an anchor for the record, but I was able to build the thing just with my producer, and there was not that. Well, gee, you know, Tim Dubois says, I should cut the song. And I mean, look at all the success he's had, you know, yeah. And to be clear, I just think I was just to be absolutely clear. This is not me saying the Nashville man made me do something. It was not that at all, I signed up for everything I got into, and I valued their input in their advice. And I took it readily, you know, but there was no such team on making a good people. So we just did wherever we wanted to. I did whatever I wanted to. Thomas Mooney  17:31   Yeah, one of the things that like, I think is a little bit foreign to a lot of the the guys who never really go to up to Nashville, never. For whatever reason, think there is this Texas Nashville divide is that whole writing for a record, I've got 10 songs, time to cut a record, I got 15 songs time to cut a record. While most of the people I know who have spent time in Nashville. They do buy into the Okay, I've got 30 songs to pick from and let's make a record. Feel like a record versus just a collection of songs. Yeah. Like my buddy Ross Cooper. He's got a record coming out, I guess, next week. Last week, however, and he were talking about it, and he, when he lived here, you know, that's what he talked about, you know, I, I write 12 songs, we like okay, well, let's cut this record. And moving up, there was for lack of a better term, like a culture shock for him. He had to be, you know, to raise his game up. And he said that, like he was trying to, I think he said he was trying to write 100 songs before cutting this first record. And he got to like 75, which is still a mind blowing amount of songs. And like you said, like, a lot of them, you know, some of them were, I'm not going to cover this. But like getting to that number, even if it is just a number is something to to be able to narrow it down to 12 songs if fit, and I don't know, I think like that entire, that makes record making into Josh Grider  19:19   record making. Yeah, you know, yeah, totally. I mean, in it's so weird, because in our Spotify and iTunes and single driven culture, it's a it's an art that is maybe underappreciated, you know, I think, but with anything like when those divides happen, there are those that care absolutely nothing, they care less about it than more than ever. But, you know, as is the kind of sort of the theme of my record for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. There are people who care more about a full

record than have ever cared before because they see the divide happening. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a real, it's a real thing. And it's, it's so much easier to put a record together when you got, the more songs you have to choose from the easier it's going to be. Thomas Mooney  20:09   Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. How did you when you have this collection of songs, how do you then start cutting down from 32? With the record? 1011? Josh Grider  20:23   They do. They kind of do it themselves. For me. He just kind of know, it. Just kind of know. I mean, I wrote good people, bedtimes role and sex and alcohol there, me and Bobby and James Slater. We're kind of having these kind of regular get togethers, kind of in the late summer and kind of lab looking at the back half of 2016. I guess. So good. People got written. Bobby didn't didn't know. He's great. You know, engineer. was cool. Felt good. Yeah. Right on, you know, and this is 2016. So like, this is the election year. I mean, people are just added in. I mean, it's still like, Yeah, but but I mean, just that, boom, man, it was grinding so hard. So it just felt like a nice little breath of fresh air and sweet. I'm start playing this, you know, because I read a lot of songs that I don't play, or you know, I don't commit to memory or whatever, you know, because they just don't feel like something that I would do from the stage. You know, there's kind of your writer self and your artist self, I guess. But, uh, so I started playing that it was going cool. And I think I think that we wrote bad times roll. And I felt really good. And it was like on hold for George Strait for a minute so it just kind of had good Juju around it. Thomas Mooney  21:34   Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. Right there like you when you say enjoy shake, because when I was driving up here, when I got my truck, Donal downwind song came on. Yeah. And then I put your record on. And I was like, there's kind of a little bit of that slow rolling vibe to it, you know, like personnel like Don Williams just kind of at his own pace. Totally. But like everyone says Willie Nelson's on his own pace, like Don Williams was on his like, slow Josh Grider  22:00   pace. And I mean, honestly, like with this record, I honestly think just sonically from top to bottom, it is the most accurate reflection of just me as a dude. Like, if I met you somewhere, and we hung out and had beers or dinner, and you didn't even know, I played music, and then dinner, and I was like, Oh, yeah, play music. Here's my record. But I think if they wouldn't listen to the record, and be like, yeah, totally just had dinner with this guy. You know, we're not jumping on there. And not at one time do I say, nah, baby, grew it on a job. or whatever, you know, some of these lyrics that show up? I don't know. I just think it's a pretty it's a pretty honest snapshot. And I mean, I didn't know Don Williams, but yeah, he was saying, he felt like he knew the dude. Yeah. And that's me.

That's when that's when artists can be successful. Whether whether they really are that thing or not. If I believe it, it works. You know what I mean? Cody Johnson has exploded. Because every night that you watch, it is just the realest deal. It's just so real. You don't have to be a rodeo. You have to be cowboy. You're not to wear a cowboy hat. You're just like, whoa. As Yeah, Unknown Speaker  23:14   real deal. Josh Grider  23:15   I'm watching something real and then in this most bestest like, fake world we live in when you just hear something that you dislike. Wow. I totally believe that. Pretty much feel like I'm getting lied to 90% of the time. But I totally believe that and man people gravitate toward that I think Thomas Mooney  23:32   yeah. So like you said it was like on hold for straight like how does how does like that even get into his ear? Like how to have a publishing deal. So yeah, Josh Grider  23:44   that's the whole point. Yeah, man, like you write them and turn them in and they just plug a plug or Nashville or the you know, that's, that's a job where their job is to study the sheets that the labels put out. This is who's recording this is what they're looking for is what kind of song they're looking for the artist, you know. And so, I got, I was driving out. I remember having an iPad and they're like, Listen, do little things. Like if it was Jace go bad times roll on mobile. Thomas Mooney  24:11   What? Yeah. Josh Grider  24:14   You know, and it was for, he ended up only cutline two brand new songs for that second greatest hits thing. Did you know? Yeah. So I mean, you know, but like, that's just crazy. Because, you know, he's getting a lot of songs, you know, and I don't even know George even ever heard it, you know, I mean, but at least the label somebody was like, hey, so, but yeah, that's what you're talking about. So like that song made me feel good. And then we'd wrote sex and alcohol. And I just loved what sex and alcohol said because it was almost like the answer to good people or sort of, it's not the opposite sentiment of good people. But it's definitely while I try to hold on to that hope and belief that there's good people sometimes you just gotta help us all. I don't even know what is going on with these. With Everything you know, yeah, so those three and I mean, in all the all the credit did Bobby and James just we would sit, we would get together have coffee and visit you know, and good people fell out because it was right after some horrible week of news, you know? Do you know sorry about how media stuff gets so blown up, they want you to think that, you know, can't walk outside and it's like, man, when I walk outside, I get neighbors I got good friends, I go to the grocery store. So my holds the door, you know, like, I see goodness everywhere. You know, there's, there's good people and has the great writers in Nashville. Do they listen, and then when they hear something, they go, let's go write that. Yeah, so we went upstairs early, you know. So those songs are feeling good. And, and, you know, it was it was just time to make a record I'd seen you know, he hadn't Unknown Speaker  25:53   drew Josh Grider  25:55   American aquarium. All these people have been crowdfunding success, and specifically Kickstarter success, I think with all those guys. And so it was just like, it was something that I had never considered because I'd customer been on label records, we're getting paid for it. That was awesome, you know. But I also was learning the value of the business of owning your masters, especially in the streaming world, you know, just business reasons. And I was like, You know what, I'm gonna go for it. You know, Andrew and I are brothers, you know, and so we had a serious talk, and I've seen him succeed twice. I'm gonna go for it, you know? Yeah, I'm gonna give a swing. So, so we did. And then once that happened, and then you kind of had the theme of the good people, the real life thing, and always lived less than less. I always thought that was a really strong song. And my first band is the oldest song record on live. So I wanted to play that song in bands for a long time, not necessarily the arrangement that we ended up on. And, you know, a woman kind of came, you know, it really stood out as a love song that I really liked. Really, again, just an honest portrayal of I mean, I've been married for almost 13 years, and we dated for like, three years before that. So I've been very, very attached and very spoken for for many years to a very patient, Unknown Speaker  27:13   loving woman. Josh Grider  27:15   So I love that to him. I haven't my grandmother passed away a couple of years ago. 93 the great life you know, 10 grandchildren and 25 great grandchildren like just a big old family full of love we all get along really pretty well. I tried to sing that at her funeral completely failed. So I was like this yeah actually saying it should not just beer but emotional wreck when I do and so yeah, so announced the first outright spiritual side done. And then, you know, so we had the record and it kind of had this thing but I felt I felt like it was it was missing a little bit. I wanted to do Kennedy co right. We just hadn't written anything. He cut open road. Yeah, cuz I love that song. But he just recorded first. And we didn't have anything that that really works. So I always love that have lucky one i thought was a great song. So I grabbed that. It's so that's the only outside someone there? Well, that hill. And I mean, I'm trying to run down so yeah, so then we had this is pretty, you know, there was a serious tone to it. You know, there's kind of some heavy and I was like, effect, I feel like we're missing. We're missing a really funky thing because I love doing funky, funky stuff, you know, and just maybe something a little bit lighter, you know, to lighten the mood. Not Not Not so much. You know, good people's got that,

you know, it's got a light feel to it, but it's kind of a heavy subject matter, you know. So, Bobby I had written top of the bottle, we wrote a kind of like, like a diet is going around on the street. Like, like, Overstreet Unknown Speaker  29:06   and Josh Grider  29:07   like with a little train beat thing, you know, we've got just, we just wrote guitars. And then Bobby months pass and then Bobby found and he did a demo on it, you know, so we can pitch it. And it was that crazy, funky weird thing. I was like, dude, I love this. Like I just do like 100 times a day like I gotta we gotta cut this man. So so we cut off to the bottle, just you know, polite thing a little bit and just to get a different groove. We doubled the vocals on it, you know, it's just it's just a different thing. It's a little Hey. And then that local honey song who wrote it, wrote wrote half of it on airplay and I got my buddy Adam James. in Nashville, we finished it. I was like, I don't know. And it was just one of those ones where I just started playing it. And people were just laughing and like, totally into It was a local honey thing. And I really learned this with like, with my one eye taco stand, you know, people like to laugh, you know? Yeah, I like to laugh. I will cut up you know, and sometimes people can take themselves to to have serious you know what I mean? Even guy car kid, funny film and Dr. Roger Miller's I mean that dude, some of his stuff was as wacky as it gets. And then he turned around and cut you to the soul husbands and wives and stuff like that. So, again, it's just all that process of growing and maturing but what I definitely learned with one that tacos then hey, we're putting out a song like when I talk with Dan, you know, you can still have a song like pictures do well, I didn't miss that song, that song, you know, really standing out live performances and stuff. I just love that song. But yeah, you know, the sidetrack myself there, but it's, I don't take myself very seriously. day to day. I take my professional seriously my family seriously. I'm a self deprecating. I like to I like to have a good time. So I like I like, I like the local honey. Again. There's a lot of groove on this record, Fred eltringham played the drums on. He's incredible. So that was just another groovy little game. spoken to me, and that's what this record was about. For me. It was Yeah. I just wasn't going to overthink it. I mean, I tried to overthink it. Now, man, I'm playing it for people. And that's what this record is for people and people like it. So hey, let's put it on there go. No, I can't do it feels good. One of the things on this record, you mentioned Thomas Mooney  31:49   sex and alcohol. I thought that was like Okay, so like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take you on this path, but I'll get back to this. But like, I think like, when, like Ray Wylie Hubbard wrote redneck mother, he kind of like update this idea of songwriting in that style, where, in a lot of

ways, it's just these little, quick little things, right. And it's not like a linear story. It's not real, just these little images, right? And then like, guy Clark kind of does that an awful lot of things, too, like too much is kind of that way. And you're able to tell a story, even though you're not telling the story in the same senses, as like good people, right? You can follow along with that. But there's this other way of songwriting where it's like, you're just kind of throwing up little phrases and images that like just kind of stick in my case, Carl has a whole bunch of that stuff, too. Yeah. And that's what it kind of reminded me of is this little bit of this, like, just throwing up Polaroid shots that kind of tell a story, but not like in the story since that's, you know, your typical story. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it kind of reminded me of is that little bit of a different way, a different approach. Josh Grider  33:11   Right? You know, and it's funny because you play it play for people who play live, and I always introduce it, and I say this song's called sex and whatever, you know, or Oh, my gosh, you know, the prunes, look, you know, worried and the drugs, or whatever. And, yeah, it starts out and we were like, but that pay off and God help us all. It's just like, Man, you may not identify with every line in the song. But there's one line in here that you're getting to go, Oh, yeah, that's me, or that's my boo. That's this. That's this. That's the you know, yeah. And I love I love. I mean, I think that's, that's a good observation about the song. But that's, that's sort of happened a few times on this record, where it's like, just the greater I think, I think part of it honestly, is having kids has just made me more socially conscious and aware. I mean, I just think, as an artist and a writer, you can just really keep live in your own head. And it's, I mean, it's a fairly narcissistic and self existence at times, you know? Yeah. And, but with kids, you know, you'd like to see it stuff in your life. You kind of know how you're going to deal with bad news, or this one actually only got they're gonna have to deal with this. Or they're gonna have to deal with these, whatever laws that are getting passed, you know, like, this is impacting their lives, and they're gonna look at me someday, like, we look at our parents, like, Who are you guys thinking? You know, it's like, Whoa, all this matters so much. So, just just again, like I said earlier, that perspective of getting older and seeing the world is different ways. Just inform some of the songs You know, in just a bigger way, whereas previously, it would be like, personal emotions, I feel bad, I'm gonna do this or this or that, you know, but all of a sudden, the social issues just going on around. We're, like so big and bigger to me than they ever had to endure an NPR junkie listen to a lot of NPR, you know, and, and like I said, you know, that was written in 2016. It was written before before the election, you know, just leading up to it. Unknown Speaker  35:32   Yeah, just world is crazy right now. Yeah. I think like the Thomas Mooney  35:38   this last election, the 16 election just was not, I feel like on on one side, it, it feels very representative of what America has turned out to be. But also the other side, I'm like, this isn't everyone like that, that that's like a reality show? You know, and it maybe doesn't represent what the average Americans like, but it may it's made, especially I think, like social media has made everyone into every every argument is binary, either one or zero. And there's no middle ground and there's no and it's made, like the most ridiculous people Unknown Speaker  36:25   most famous, which is probably not a good thing. Josh Grider  36:29   It's absurd. I mean, the things I don't know, man, I mean, these are these are all the things that I you know, I've wrestled with them daily, and wrestled with them on this record, but it's like, you know, this is this. podcasts aren't good for visual but you know, if you look at you know, say a yardstick follow me here. Yes. a yardstick is humanity. three inches of that yardstick. Five is six inches. Three, three feet of the yard. Thomas Mooney  37:02   Yeah. Say six inches of that. Josh Grider  37:06   That is politics, religion, sports, you know, there are things that people music they disagree on. But he really they like to argue about it tussle about it, you know, no, I'm right. You're right. But the other 30 inches of that yardstick, we pretty much got that in common. Yeah, we're looking for somebody to love. We're looking for something cold to drink, or we're looking for somewhere to lay down and feel safe and feel sheltered. And, man, yes, that that that Facebook, or you know, just the social part of it capitalizes so much on that small, small part of this common existence that we have, and it's okay to disagree. I love getting in sports or even people I love getting in an intelligent religious debate or political debate with someone where they can present their side in Unknown Speaker  38:00   a conversation conversation, you know, Josh Grider  38:03   Kennedy and I, again, you know, we ride up and down the road in his little Prius, and we will have a discussion and sometimes we really, vehemently agree with each other. We realize we're shouting at each other. And we're like, we're agreeing right now. Yeah. Okay. Cool, same page. But I enjoy that. And that's great. But, but what it what it is failed to let us know is like, Man, that person up on Facebook 90% of your day was exactly like theirs on the that a scale, you know? And if, and if they walked in this room right now, you'd say Hey, man, how's it going? Nice to meet you. Cool. oriented over. Oh, man. I went there one time. Where are you from? Cool. I my sister, you know, and your civil and everything is fine. Yeah, but Geez, I know. I know. It's crazy. Thomas

Mooney  38:59   Yeah, it's uh, the shit you say on on Facebook. You would never tell that person in real life to their face, especially on Twitter. Twitter's probably worse. It's just like, but also it's it's one of those things where How are you? in a conversation you can say basically, everything about your opinion, and make it calculated and make make it sound. A better Rep. It represents what you're sitting what you're trying to say. Yes, and I'm doing a bad job at it right now. But like on, you know, 140 characters, I Josh Grider  39:41   guess it's just a Facebook post. We know exactly what you're trying to do 60 characters Thomas Mooney  39:47   you got to like compromise on what you're trying to say or if you're trying to fit it into that little piece. And then you're going to not have all the exceptions and the buts in the all the end Like there's always that there's all emojis in the world will not make up for a facial expression, or the nuance of the way that's all you had to put like four emojis to capture that one thought you're not doing. Yeah, no, Josh Grider  40:17   I mean, the word you know, the F word. One of the most diverse words in the world, you just look at it, it's like, and you can have all kinds of contexts and emojis or whatever around it. But even still, it's just Jari. Yeah, but in a conversation, somebody does offhanded say, and you're like, Oh, yeah, man is joking. Or somebody can look at you and say it and your students based right now or whatever, you know, like, there is no substitute for face to face conversation with somebody. Yeah. And, and in all that, you get to know somebody, by the way, they carry themselves by the things they say about where they're from, or whatever that they did, you'll just have respect, like, cool. You know, maybe maybe I'm not have my dealings with this person. Because I don't think we agree, based on some things that have been said, we'll just let that go. Yeah, just civil discourse. I'm free to do what I'm free to do. And you're free to do what you're free to do. And that's fine. So I totally wonder if we're, we're on one of my pandering hot buttons. It drives me insane. Yeah, Thomas Mooney  41:24   yeah. We'll get back to the record. On that song, lesson less, there's a line in there, probably gonna mess it up. But there's like a line about. I'm not like, I'm not better, like, I'm not better all the way or something like that. But I'm not all the way better. I'm not better. Yeah. I feel like that is like such a. First off, he captures the entire song, but like that captures such an emotional touchstone for people. You know, where did that line originate from? Like, where did that come from? Man, I Bobby, I wrote that. I know, we wrote it in December, of maybe 2015. Josh Grider  42:13   And I had the title, less than less, more and more or less and less. And I was afraid that I was stealing. And I was like, surely this has been written? Turns out it has. I think it

was Charlie louvin song, or no, I think Roger wrote it in the louvin brothers. It was, I think it was something on the more and more or less and less, but then I thought even more modern. I thought it was stealing from Bruce Robson. Because he has the song more and more. But there was no less than less on it. So I was like, Okay, cool. I'm not I'm not stealing from there. So anyway, we wrote it. And Bobby came out that with that, pinball and a coffee came, I was like, Whoa, and just like set the bar and he's like, okay, that's a killer metaphor. We're gonna have to ride with. And then we wrote that course. I said, the black smoke billowing thing. He's like, yeah, and when it was really a fun session, because we're just writing these really dense, really descriptive lines. And so we're back and forth. 1000 a second verse. And by then, kind of once it gets flowing, it just, it's sort of just becomes like a conversation. Like, you'll say something, you know, that that thing. I'm going to I'm going to give dual credit on that line. Because I don't I don't specifically remember saying I don't remember Bobby just saying this is it you know, because there are there are certain lines that you'll that you'll nail and you're like yeah, that's my line. And certain lines that you don't really that is totally somebody else's line and all the credit to them. But But yeah, it was it fell in a great spot in the song. You know, that highlight reel thing and? Thomas Mooney  43:49   Yeah, like the highlight reel to that. Yeah, Josh Grider  43:52   it's really a great one too, because we all lay down in bed and your mind starts to defrag from the day you know, and all the way better better than I've been. That's one of my favorite songs just to play it's and it's really started taking shape with the band because it led to a lot of banter and so putting the band together it's been really fun to bring these songs with the rope but I don't know I wish I could take sole credit for that line but I'm gonna say that it just it just by that late in the song and often like I said as often happens it just starts to flow and like a conversation. I would have never written on my own Bobby wouldn't have written on his own it just was the fact Yeah, that we had gotten that far in the song we both knew where we were headed. thing I would say about that songs that have bridge that we didn't end up putting in I have I'm still on the fence as to whether we should have put them someday. Sunday asked some if you ever show asked me to play with the bridge. Thomas Mooney  44:53   Yeah. What's funny about like, Jesus, like some people were just like very well I Hubbard sternly against you. Having a bridge and then some people like well, songs. Oh yeah. And like, I don't know, it's one of those. Josh Grider  45:06   Somebody said if you're in commercial music and you want to make money, you better be writing bridges. Yeah. You're the king of bridges is we're talking about this in advance and I had a chance to go see him. In New Braunfels is Bryan Adams, killer bridges. I mean, he's all about this radio, huge commercials. Yeah, he's got bridges that change keys and fields and they're eight lines long, like just just how to write a bridge because a lot of bridges are throwaway and they're Bs and I get one. Yeah. But I was like a bridge a little scene change late in song, you know? Thomas Mooney  45:48   Yeah. What, like, yeah, so many bridges are just they, like, this was not this was like, I was part of a verse. And we need something here Josh Grider  45:58   live to the average. I also sort of pride myself in writing good bridges. Like, I feel like, I feel like, you know, like, I'm pretty good at like, let's sum up what we've just said, you know, but the bridge I wrote for less than less was, it's like, I'm standing in a tunnel, and I'm looking at a lie. I'm making my way out. But then sometimes it hits me. Like, yeah, I thought that was cool. I still don't want we didn't do. Too late. Thomas Mooney  46:28   Yeah. You mentioned writing with drew a lot. Obviously. You guys right. He cut open road on his record. Yeah. So you guys wrote that together? Yeah. And that's such a obvious homage to guy Clark and West Texas. Like what I was like about songs like that, and like john Downton does this a whole lot. Whenever you're able to put the person in a specific region or location. You guys really did that with that song? Obviously, like you feel driving down it and are i 20? I guess like 20 to take us in my hands. But uh, like, john always said, I talked with john about this. And he's always talking about how when he was writing songs like that, he would use Google all the time. You'd be like, I gotta make sure I've got this right. I need to make sure. do you what do you guys do? You guys fact check on stuff like that. Well, Josh Grider  47:29   this is a little known thing. Drew knows everything. So we call it Drupal eight the Red River gang like we ride me like Drupal it like nine times out of 10 years astrue something and he just knows it. Yeah, dude. He's brilliant. But yeah, I will use Google Yeah, I like to do that stuff. You know, just make sure you're right. You know, and I had a song about a Camaro I was writing one time I needed to run I was trying to run the engine size I was like, well, we got we got to see what size and just came in Camaro was in the 1960s. And you just kind of go on these little fact finding missions. That's cool. Because you know, listeners will hear it they'll be like so this happened to me local honey on the record. Unknown Speaker  48:14   The second verse Josh Grider  48:17   it talks about there's alliances I'd be your little worker if you wanted to be my queen. After I've cut the song a beekeeper comes up to me at a show he goes you know the worker bees are female really like the males are drones it's like oh man Unknown Speaker  48:39   sticking with it Unknown Speaker  48:40  

not gonna change Yeah, cuz I Josh Grider  48:41   cuz then I wrote a second verse was drawn in it but it just didn't sound as cool as the worker because they're working on so I kept it yeah, that is not scientifically or you know, I did not do my research. Thomas Mooney  48:51   Like up he's Jeroen I mean like, it loses. There's so much lost between worker and drone. That's Yeah, that's not playful and your drone Josh Grider  49:04   won't do what you programmed me. Terrible robot. But yeah, like I've read or heard Jimmy Webb talking about by the time I Get to Phoenix. I don't think you can technically drive from me, the guy's making. He would have been traveling this and it's just like, come on, man. Yes. Sometimes you got to let our license just what is it suspension of disbelief. Yeah. Sometimes that's necessary. Yeah. Thomas Mooney  49:33   But I always feel that way with. With West Texas stuff is like, it has to feel genuine. It has to feel. More importantly, this is probably bad, but it has to feel authentic because you're and there's some stuff that especially like in movies, I'll be like, Oh, no, no, that can't happen. Oh, Josh Grider  49:53   the visual the visual. The Texas has been to Texas and the greater Southwest is Yeah, sorely Miss Visually misrepresented many, many, many times Thomas Mooney  50:03   we see even like in the movie like hell or high water, which is a good movie. It's like USA, us, West Texas and like some of this No, no, no, that wouldn't work out like that. Like, they're not. How fast are they fucking driving on these highways? I digress. No Country for Old Men. It was the best West Texas version. And what I think like the most underrated aspect of that entire movie that they got, right, was that there's no soundtrack, no school, because like out in West Texas. Josh Grider  50:34   It's just quiet. so quiet. And that's what they got. Right? Yeah, for sure. I totally agree that that is a great representation. Thomas Mooney  50:44   Yeah, so like a like openroad? Like, where did that come from? Like, did you guys just have the idea? Josh Grider  50:52   Oh, we started that in San Angelo. We'd play played about speaking to blah. Andrews like, man, we should, was right in the morning, we'll get it right. It's like, cool. And so we got up and I walked out, he was sitting in Qatar. It kind of had had that title, you know, in the idea, I just sat down. And we just kind of were kicking around those lines, again, man, just so dense and so much inner rhyme. And they're just, you know, that it's the way to write you know, and you probably hear a lot more jus Kennedy and that song and you do Josh grider. But that's okay. I was happy to be there. And assist as it got delivered into the world. You know, do some of the guitar picking and we drove just talked about, you know, we had to leave it to the next gig, you know, and Drew's such a purist he likes to write so he's trying to drive and write on a notepad, it's

West Texas, you can get away with those things still made me that. The copilot all nervous. It's like, dude, let me drive and you sit there and write and say, Oh, you're right. You're right now just stop ready to get the notepad, you start writing again. So yeah, you know, Drew's in the hammered with the West and is falling in love with it, you know? I mean, as my home, I grew up in it, you know, I'm from Las Cruces. So it's funny, because it's just, it's a whole nother world from where he grew up, and what he'd seen analysis as well. And it's really been fun to watch him fall in love with the West and be like, do this. And I'm like, Well, yeah, I guess I didn't know about that. But it just yeah, it's just sort of how it was, you know what I mean? Yeah, you don't appreciate where you're from, as much as we've seen somebody else come into it is just so in love with it. And you know, it's just in me and obviously love it. But I probably the same, but you know, I am the same. When I go back east, I look at these buildings and cities in all these green and water rivers. There's a Thomas Mooney  52:54   I guess it was a couple months back, he had posted a photo Unknown Speaker  52:58   on Iran. And I was like, oh, Thomas Mooney  53:02   okay, yeah, like, I remember that. And then I told him this little bit about how there used to be like, a cartoonist who was from Iran, that had like this back in the 50s, who had a cartoon and there was like, there's about like, a dinosaur and shit. And they had like, this big dinosaur in our hand, that was, like, a little bit of a roadside attraction kind of thing. And then like, even outside, I ran between there and mccamey are these old dinosaur tracks. And I told him about that. And he was like, because I guess, like, it was a mural of a dinosaur. And it just reminded me, like, I went on a field trip one time out there to just to see that because, you know, that's what you have to do. He said, he kind of like, he was a little bit more of a true song. And of course, like, when you go into national writing, where there's going to be songs that you don't necessarily cut in there for maybe a different kind of artists or whatever. Do you enjoy the challenge of taking that backseat in like, writing in a different a different artistic voice? Josh Grider  54:12   What is it? It's really fun, man? I mean, it's like, you just get in, it's like being an actor, you know? What I mean? It's just like, what role Are you gonna play? Are you gonna be, you know, the guy that's quiet, and then you deliver the, the one liner that gets the chuckle from the audience, you know, is this going to be your soliloquy, or you're going to be this is your moment, you know? And you get in these twos and threes and everybody just sort of have coffee and you feel out who you know, if it's the first time you've written with them, and then of course, you've established relationships and you know, kind of what you did when you go sit down

with somebody, but Oh, it's a blast, man sometimes do right with young aspiring artists, you know, and so you're just, you're just trying to take their voice and what they want to say, and just help them kind of steer it into a form that works, you know? Cuz they might not have that experience. But I want you to think about what your 23 year old female experiences, just don't. So probably not going to have a lot of lyrical input here, but I'll help you arrange these lyrics and we can make it like rice or, you know, I'm not divorced. But if that's what we're going to write about, I'm going to listen to you, I'm going to try and help you get back in. So it's super fun. And I mean, it truly is like, it's, it's not about keeping score. And you will, you'll kind of hang your hat on certain lines, you know, and maybe people you're close with. But it's really not even fair to do that. Because there's, there's nothing saying, if you could have done it yourself, and why were you there? You were, you know, I mean, you'd written before you left the house, but you've written it yesterday. Yeah, it existed because you got together with those other people. And you shared that space, and you bounced ideas off each other. Even if one dude wrote every word, even if all you did was get coffee. You know? You were there at Timmy water music. Job. Sometimes the most important guy was the one that goes, yes. You know, if somebody is on fire, just right in there, look at me go. And is this any good? Yes. I go way down, right. And then you leave. And it's 5050. Because it just, that's just, you know, that's how it works. And I mean, I've heard goofy stories of people parsing lines and tracking you for 20%. Nairobi live, you know, that's just BS. I've never encountered that. anything I've ever done. Whether I did all the lifting, or none of it. It was an equal split with everybody that was in the room. And even even if it was the same doesn't get finished, and then I go write it with somebody else. That person that was there for the original they get to get a share unless you really negotiate something. Yeah. So I'm sure it all evens out in the end. I mean, I believe that it has to be far more than songwriting. It's we can't we can't sweat the little stuff too much. Yeah. Well, I think that's a good way to end it right there. Phil, thank you so much. For you know, for starters, doing this in the morning. Hey, I love I love what you do. I was I was honored. I was hoping that we could get something down. Yeah, record or not, but I'm happy that it all coincides with the record coming out. Thomas Mooney  57:20   Yeah, of course. Yeah. This record is really really great. I like I said, like, I do love the vibe of it. Like you're Unknown Speaker  57:27   we're gonna probably Thomas Mooney  57:30   but I do like the way the record the vibe of the record it it's I was thinking about it last night how often, songwriter songwriters love to talk about the the fall, the

being down and out. In a lot of ways. This record is like, the step right after that. It's like dusting yourself off and trying to see the good, man. Yeah. Josh Grider  58:05   Yeah, man. It's, it's, I hope that my hope that somebody might take from the record after listening is a little bit of hope. It's it's certainly not playing down. I mean, this is not a tailgates and pasture parties record, where every day Saturday night and we just drink and make out with hot chicks kind of record. That is not what this record is. It's, it's just ignore, it's just, I just wanted to make something just real acknowledging a man every day and Christmas. But you'll get over it, you'll get through, you'll get past it in. It's, it's there's, it's not something you can't get past, whether it's lost, or you know, whatever it is, and a reminder, you know, to be grateful for what you got, because you've got so much and don't let your stupid social media make you think everybody is having more fun than you and everybody's life is better because because you are entitled to enjoy the very moment that you are living in enjoy the people that you are around. That is your is your God given right. And these goofy little devices will trick you into thinking something is just not true. Looking at somebody else's highlight reel that they've curated, and and typed and then re typed and retired and I only say it because I know it because I do it. You know, I mean I'm just as guilty but man, get off your screen. live in the moment you're in and just feel what you're in, you know, these these things here. We allow ourselves to just disengage from what's happening so often. And that's, that's scary. I don't like it. Yeah, I don't like it. We're all gonna be sitting in those chairs for idiocracy. And you know, Unknown Speaker  59:53   it's scary, Josh Grider  59:56   but we don't have to. We don't have to. All you got to do is put it down like it Just put it in, just see what's out there. You know, you can go on your phone and look at usage of apps for the past 24 hours and seven days it's built in, in your settings, go look, go look how much time you were on, you know, whatever. And then ask yourself, how much time has been talking to my mom or whatever? face to face, reading a book, reading a book, anything? Yeah. And, you know, let that let that information speak to you. You know what I mean? Let that information tell you something, you'd be open to hearing what that is telling you. and adjust as you feel necessary. But you know, either I go direct Yes, it is. I like I like to add have thought of it that way it is. It's the same down and out record. It's the ones that has been done. And it kind of is man. I mean, I was so many of my relationship songs. Because I have been in a really stable and very lucky relationship for so long with a woman. My unrequited love of music and the music business and the friction and the tension in the letdowns. I've had a lot of those emotions get channeled, because I want to make it accessible and not make it a music business record. A lot of those and less than less, that's getting that's that call going. Now we're not reading the news or Hey, this life is over. Okay, yeah, we're not putting any more money in the record that we can more singles. Were done. Yeah. When your heart and soul was in a record as well as also man in a cell and is over. It still, I get mad about why that happened. You know, I can be right back there. But as much as I used to time, you know, you get over it. So yeah, I think that's a you know, we buttoned it up so nicely when you open the camera. Alright, well, yeah. Again, thank you so much for joining me. Transcribed by https://otter.ai