התמלול המלא של Helping Open-Source Bitcoin Developers Thrive w/ Amiti Uttarwar

Huge disclaimer, I am not a neuroscientist. 60 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:32,560 I have no reason to be going around talking about neuroscience other than I find it very 61 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:38,660 interesting and I am a nerd. Certified. She has her license and everything. 62 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,720 Yeah, exactly. Just check my GitHub. 63 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:43,700 Let's go. 64 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,560 It's an open source certification. 65 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,780 But with Way, Way is a nonprofit that was started a year, a year and a half ago. 66 00:04:54,500 --> 00:05:06,860 And with that, we've been exploring how to find different techniques from the world around and bring it to our community of permissionless builders. 67 00:05:07,740 --> 00:05:23,820 So I know there's the word dev everywhere, but we have seen that the actual kind of grouping of similarity has to do more with working not just in open source, but working in this permissionless way. 68 00:05:24,380 --> 00:05:27,420 There's a lot of essentially solopreneurship. 69 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,740 We don't necessarily use that term, but that's a lot of what's happening. 70 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:33,900 And so devs are a big part of it. 71 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:41,200 a lot of these devs, you know, my past self included, but working on the grant ecosystem, 72 00:05:41,980 --> 00:05:49,820 you have to be some level of solopreneur. You might not be a Instagram creator or running, 73 00:05:50,740 --> 00:05:56,580 starting a company, although many people are leading different apps, whether in the Bitcoin 74 00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:02,940 ecosystem, Nostra ecosystem. But there is this element of having to navigate all the different 75 00:06:02,940 --> 00:06:10,340 parts of your job that if you were working in a traditional company, it wouldn't be as 76 00:06:10,340 --> 00:06:18,740 boundless. So I think something I've really enjoyed about working in Bitcoin is that 77 00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:27,460 I get to decide what I think is the most important. It's not being told to me by some boss CEO or OKR 78 00:06:27,460 --> 00:06:32,200 or OK, now pivot, stop working on what you were working on for the last two weeks and work on this 79 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:37,780 mission critical, whatever, I get to decide. And sometimes I do pivot. Sometimes I do get that 80 00:06:37,780 --> 00:06:48,740 feedback, but it is in my judgment and discernment. And that feels very empowering in an individual 81 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:53,820 manner. And it feels really important in a collective manner because we can have 82 00:06:53,820 --> 00:07:01,800 various ideas of what's important. Different people can put forward work of what's important. 83 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:17,220 But then there's also this flip side of it. Our research paper done by Laura Lotti, amazing researcher, she has kind of coined this term, the tyranny of permissionlessness. 84 00:07:17,220 --> 00:07:32,120 And the idea here is that the same values that attract us all into this ecosystem, when gone unchecked, can actually be the source of huge challenge. 85 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,620 And over the last years, we are seeing a rise of it. 86 00:07:36,620 --> 00:07:45,320 so many people are experiencing burnout. And we've seen, I think there was, I should go remember, 87 00:07:45,420 --> 00:07:49,880 but was there a New York Times article about how several maintainers of Bitcoin 88 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,360 stepped away citing burnout? It was in some large publication. 89 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,320 Sure. I mean, if they were doing it to say that working for Bitcoin is bad, 90 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:03,200 then I would not be surprised to have seen it in the New York Times. But yeah, I remember you 91 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,660 talking about this and I remember hearing it where I remember hearing about this I should say 92 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:10,520 could have been the New York Times I'll look into it maybe include in the show notes if we can find 93 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:16,800 it let me know I should remember but anyway that's all right it's it's clearly on the rise 94 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:22,020 in conferences on Twitter in our community in individual conversations I think that 95 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:30,080 I've definitely heard tons but um way kind of came out of of this uh way was founded 96 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:41,920 I mean, Way became a concept walking out of the Oslo Freedom Forum in 2024, where a lot of people in this community said, you have to make this a thing. 97 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,340 Everyone's talking about the problems, but you're the only one talking about solutions. 98 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,060 And so I was like, OK, I guess I'm starting an org. 99 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,520 And so far, I've just been figuring out what that means. 100 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:55,580 But anyways, we have some time to dig into all of this. 101 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:56,860 This was a bit of a ramble. 102 00:08:57,060 --> 00:08:58,680 I don't think I really introduced myself. 103 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:05,280 Yeah, there'll be a little bit about you and about what you're doing, but we'll get into more of both as we go along here. 104 00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:13,360 It's super, super exciting. And I just want to reiterate on my behalf here, I was an educator for a while and training to be a clinical social worker. 105 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:21,020 So working with people, I find super, super fascinating. And I think the work you're doing, I can't wait to sort of continue to watch it unfold and to talk to you about it. 106 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:23,640 but I want to dive into some of that today. 107 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,480 But before we get into that work in particular, 108 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:28,500 what I'm curious is a little bit of, 109 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:31,200 if you could just give a little bit of your technical

background 110 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,040 and maybe what led you to Bitcoin. 111 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,700 And I only ask for that, not so that we dive so far into it, 112 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,340 but just to kind of contextualize for the audience, 113 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,580 you're working with these developers who are doing this work you once did. 114 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:45,040 So I just want to give them a little bit of an overview of your experience 115 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,000 doing that work before we talk about the ways in which you're helping 116 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,420 the people you work with. 117 00:09:49,420 --> 00:10:09,380 Yeah, totally. So I was a Bitcoin Core contributor full time for many years. I think my first PR was merged into Bitcoin Core at the end of 2018. And then I, from then on, I primarily worked on Bitcoin Core. It took me some time to become full time. 118 00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:22,580 That was 2019 was when I became, was able to quit my fiat job and work on Bitcoin Core, where I focused on the peer-to-peer network. 119 00:10:23,220 --> 00:10:25,860 And I was doing that up until starting way. 120 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:36,960 And yeah, so my area of focus was the P2P network, which essentially, you know, Bitcoin is a bunch of computers all over the world running software. 121 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,780 and that software somehow creates a ledger that's agreed upon. 122 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:49,900 And a lot of that is determined by consensus like the blockchain and the mechanisms of that. 123 00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:54,280 But a lot of that is also heavily influenced by peer-to-peer logic. 124 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:58,160 So questions like, who do I connect to? 125 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:06,460 And how do I know if they are malicious or if they are actually serving me information from the real blockchain? 126 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:21,720 How do I send transactions and get them onto the network so it can be mined while maintaining my privacy so somebody cannot link my Bitcoin address with my real world identity? 127 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:49,000 These kinds of questions around network level operations are the domain of P2P. And that's where I happily focused and tinkered. I did a lot in terms of privacy and security. Those were my main focuses was trying to make sure the system is resilient for the long term. 128 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:55,840 Appreciate that. And thank you for the work that you did as a Bitcoin user. Not as the host, but as a Bitcoin user. 129 00:11:56,620 --> 00:11:58,120 Thank you. That's great. 130 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:08,200 No, it's really, really inspiring work to me. I'm not a super technical minded person. So I'm quite grateful to people like yourself out there who are doing this extremely important work. 131 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:25,660 And just to clarify for the audience, too, when you talked, you mentioned your fiat job. From what I read, I think you

did some work in Silicon Valley. Is that when you say fiat job, is it working for traditional software companies that or startups or something in that world that was your quote unquote fiat job? 132 00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:32,060 uh yeah i it was a series of uh i mean you know i was working for a while i worked at different 133 00:12:32,060 --> 00:12:39,600 startups in silicon valley um the one that i was working on when i first started falling down the 134 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:45,480 bitcoin rabbit hole was actually really cool this platform called simbi which was an online 135 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:52,500 marketplace for trading and bartering goods and services primarily focused on services 136 00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:59,660 and there is where I really started to question what is money, what is the utility of it versus 137 00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:06,120 the idea of it that we currently have because there were some ways in which I felt more able 138 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:14,760 to be rich through a bartering services economy. For example, I have never been certified in yoga 139 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:23,200 and so I should not like I would not take money to teach yoga but it's something that I'm have 140 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:29,160 been studying independently has brought me a lot of benefit happy to share with friends and family 141 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:37,260 and on Simbi I would teach people yoga and I would get massages and so to me I was just like 142 00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:41,960 getting a free massage but the other side of it was cool too I was like wait what do you mean I 143 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,720 have something I can share. And I realized that, yeah, I mean, it had been over a decade that I 144 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,820 had learned about yoga. And sometimes people don't need a certified expert. What they need is 145 00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:58,940 personalized attention. And sitting there and being like, oh, that post doesn't work for you? 146 00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:05,220 Okay, let's figure out one that does, was more valuable than going to a class with somebody who 147 00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:12,480 is more experienced, you know, it comes with its own caveats. But it that that working on that 148 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:21,900 platform really challenged my ideas of, of money, economy, expertise, those sorts of things. And it 149 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:27,500 was actually a user of the platform that came into our office and was like, you all need to learn 150 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:33,800 about Bitcoin. And orange pilled me and I think did an amazing job because the next thing I was 151 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:40,420 doing was reading the white paper. And ever since then, I was curious, like, what is this thing 152 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:47,720 kept falling down the curiosity rabbit hole that led me to working on the crypto team at Coinbase. 153 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:55,240 And that was my last job where I had conventional,

you know, bosses and managers and 154 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:01,760 performance reviews and health benefits and things like that before I started working on Bitcoin. 155 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:30,760 Amazing. So you work on Bitcoin. You work on Bitcoin for a number of years starting, I think you said, 2018. You had your first PR merged. You then you've since, as we just talked about, shifted over to providing this psychosocial support via way. I'm assuming that maybe given that you're now trying to help people not burn out, maybe you went through this yourself. Is that potentially what happened? Yeah, you're laughing. So I'm assuming that could have been the case. Yeah. 156 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:55,620 Yeah, I mean, I wonder, I don't really know. Burnout is such an umbrella term. And it depends what we mean by it, right? And so I have had periods of time where I've stepped away from working on the project. And so I think we could totally call that burnout. But also, I don't know that I necessarily perceive it as such. 157 00:15:55,620 --> 00:16:02,340 um so yeah i don't know but i definitely have gone through some things there's been a lot of 158 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:07,020 awesome stuff about working in this ecosystem and there's been a lot of huge challenges as well 159 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:15,280 and in my own experience firsthand having lived through some of the challenges i have a very 160 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:22,740 nuanced perspective as well as having talked to a lot of people and witnessed a lot of journeys i 161 00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:30,340 have that exposure as well. But I think that way is very organically created. But I also feel like 162 00:16:30,340 --> 00:16:38,520 it was a bit more informed by my journey of doing mentorship and then seeing that something else was 163 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,900 more valuable than technical mentorship. And that kind of led to it. So there was an element of 164 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:50,520 solving problems, but there was also an element of kind of leveling up both myself as well as others. 165 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,640 and curiosity around like, 166 00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:58,220 rather than having to always solve this as individuals, 167 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,600 what does it mean like to get systemic support 168 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,000 in a different decentralized development ecosystem, 169 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:09,220 which is a new model. 170 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,280 We've had open source for a long time, 171 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,320 but the decentralized development ecosystem 172 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,840 of Bitcoin and friends, 173 00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:17,740 which like Bitcoin and now Nostra, 174 00:17:17,740 --> 00:17:23,420 to me still I haven't seen examples of that existing previously. 175 00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:49,900 Okay. So your pivot to doing this work is more a matter of you feeling that you're more currently more valuable doing something like this, especially because there's really nobody serving this need. Maybe need isn't the exact word, but nobody sort of playing this role, doing this thing that you find very important and necessary at this point versus sort of you went through it yourself. So you want to be there for other people who are going through it. Is that a fair way to put it? 176 00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:56,580 yeah yeah yeah totally yeah i mean i i think there are elements of number two but um definitely 177 00:17:56,580 --> 00:18:03,400 and i would totally say need i think people in the community convinced me that this is a need 178 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:12,720 and that's why i said okay i'll give it a shot um but i also saw that myself you know amazing and 179 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,800 i think you also touched on something really cool we'll pull on it a little bit more in a second but 180 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:29,180 I think you made a really good point when you were talking about providing a service to somebody else and sometimes just providing someone attention is maybe more important than having the proper credentials or doing whatever. 181 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:48,680 And I think that level of sort of I'm focusing on you, I'm in this present moment with you trying to help you correct your posture in yoga or do whatever or just to be there for you, I think really does have a tremendous amount of value that's often overlooked, whether it's by professionals who educate or by mental health professionals. 182 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,840 I think there is something really to be said about that. 183 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:52,060 So just wanted to highlight that. 184 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,120 That's really important. 185 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:55,020 Yeah. 186 00:18:55,020 --> 00:18:55,120 Yeah. 187 00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,940 So you decide to do this. 188 00:18:57,940 --> 00:19:02,340 you decide to do what you're doing with the way do you go through any training do you start 189 00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:10,300 educating yourself about it what is the process like to to bringing way to to bring what yeah so 190 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:17,740 there's kind of two different journeys or timelines we can talk about one was the journey into 191 00:19:17,740 --> 00:19:27,940 coaching myself and that uh was this organic process where i um you know when i came on to 192 00:19:27,940 --> 00:19:35,780 the bitcoin scene i received a lot of attention for being the first woman and it's kind of ironic 193 00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:44,060 because um i've been a female in male-dominated spaces my whole life uh primarily computer science 194 00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:48,700 But I also do a bunch of intense mountaineering, which is also very male dominated. 195 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,300 But never has my gender been so talked about. 196 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:53,760 Yeah. 197 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:54,780 Been here, right? 198 00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:55,440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 199

00:19:56,380 --> 00:20:01,880 And it was done so in a very positive way where people are like, congratulations, what a success, blah, blah, blah. 200 00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:06,480 But I was kind of like, no, this is a failure of us as a community. 201 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,560 It's 2019 and we have no women. 202 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:16,540 like just like straight up 50% not represented in the builders of this thing that we call global 203 00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:26,940 money like that's so dumb and so I was curious from day zero of how do we get more and people 204 00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:30,660 would ask me left and right how do we get more women I was like I don't know I'm here I think 205 00:20:30,660 --> 00:20:36,600 this is dope like I don't know why everybody else is in I like how you just used the word dope too 206 00:20:36,600 --> 00:21:01,686 by the way that was that fantastic yeah anyway please please continue yeah um so um yeah so i i did a lot of kind of working with other women who are interested technical mentorship etc But over time I realized that the technical mentorship wasn what was the highest leverage or the most impactful 207 00:21:02,466 --> 00:21:04,786 It was something else. 208 00:21:04,786 --> 00:21:12,786 and it i now have better understanding or words for it where when you have amazing problem solvers 209 00:21:12,786 --> 00:21:19,186 people who are are devs who are working at the bitcoin core level if they can't solve a technical 210 00:21:19,186 --> 00:21:29,106 problem the solution is so rarely actually technical usually there's some kind of psychological 211 00:21:29,106 --> 00:21:37,166 technical blocker that it's some sort of narrative that's restricting you that prevents you from being 212 00:21:37,166 --> 00:21:41,846 able to source your own solution. Because especially, I mean, at this point in time, 213 00:21:41,946 --> 00:21:46,286 AI has taken over the world. Like, if you could solve a problem and the solution's out there, 214 00:21:46,306 --> 00:21:51,826 you can find it, you know? And so when it does feel like I'm blocked by something technical, 215 00:21:51,826 --> 00:22:03,386 Well, I've just seen higher leverage and impact around going a little deeper of why are you not able to solve this yourself when you know you're an incredible problem solver. 216 00:22:03,926 --> 00:22:09,546 And I think that started with how I did my own work in Bitcoin Core. 217 00:22:09,906 --> 00:22:14,626 I worked on some incredibly complicated P2P stuff. 218 00:22:14,626 --> 00:22:23,766 but repeatedly I saw that when I couldn't figure something out it was rarely code or C++ that was 219 00:22:23,766 --> 00:22:29,806 this blocker it was much more my own state of mind and colloquially we know this right like 220 00:22:29,806 --> 00:22:34,966 the amount of times if you ask any dev that you've gone to bed like I can't figure out this bug and 221 00:22:34,966 --> 00:22:41,386 I've been working on it for three hours and then

you wake up and you're like oh right and beyond 222 00:22:41,386 --> 00:22:43,686 And devs, like we've all experienced some flavor of this. 223 00:22:44,346 --> 00:22:50,886 So anyways, in trying to support other people in their onboarding journey, it was a lot of women. 224 00:22:50,886 --> 00:22:55,266 And I was also very passionate about people from other countries. 225 00:22:55,446 --> 00:23:05,206 When I started contributing to Bitcoin Core, there were no contributors, like full-time contributors from all of Asia, from all of Africa, and all of South America. 226 00:23:05,946 --> 00:23:08,386 So it was really narrow. 227 00:23:08,386 --> 00:23:13,846 The representation has gotten a lot better in the past several years. 228 00:23:14,386 --> 00:23:21,726 But yeah, working with these communities, I just saw what was more impactful was something else. 229 00:23:22,586 --> 00:23:26,466 And over time, began calling that something else coaching. 230 00:23:27,026 --> 00:23:30,326 Because I was like, it's not technical mentorship, but like, what is it? 231 00:23:30,326 --> 00:23:47,426 And then as I was doing this new thing that I started calling coaching, eventually started away from the community saying, hey, this needs to be more widely available. 232 00:23:47,646 --> 00:23:53,746 The results you're talking about, the possibilities you're talking about is much needed in this community. 233 00:23:53,746 --> 00:24:01,706 then I started looking at, okay, how do we make it kind of a systemic offering rather than an 234 00:24:01,706 --> 00:24:13,066 individual one? And that query is what WAI is. And so we've made a lot of awesome progress in 235 00:24:13,066 --> 00:24:17,206 the past year. Some of those stats you mentioned at the beginning, I want to clarify. It's like 236 00:24:17,206 --> 00:24:24,366 Way who's supported over 150 FreedomTech builders from over 35 countries. I think I need to update 237 00:24:24,366 --> 00:24:31,766 those stats. I suspect it's more like over 200 and over 40 countries at this point, but 238 00:24:31,766 --> 00:24:38,266 just trying to keep up. There's been incredible engagement, incredible stories of impact. People 239 00:24:38,266 --> 00:24:45,126 are really taking this and running with it. And it's so humbling and so inspiring to get to work 240 00:24:45,126 --> 00:24:49,326 with incredible builders and see them level up. 241 00:24:49,986 --> 00:24:54,186 And some of it are people who are like, oh, my God, I'm burnt out or I'm on the verge 242 00:24:54,186 --> 00:24:56,786 of it who are able to kind of transform and reignite. 243 00:24:57,306 --> 00:24:59,286 And others are people who are like, I'm going strong. 244 00:24:59,386 --> 00:25:00,906 But like, OK, what is this stuff? 245 00:25:00,946 --> 00:25:03,766 And then find out that they can level up. 246 00:25:04,046 --> 00:25:07,846 You know, so that's I was reading one of the programs. 247 00:25:07,846 --> 00:25:12,386 I'm going to read you some because I was reading this for somebody asked me the other 248 00:25:12,386 --> 00:25:25,966 day. And I was so just humbled and shook, like, by what people said. So some people, like, 249 00:25:25,966 --> 00:25:33,146 like this group program we have called OS Reboot, what people described it as participants in their 250 00:25:33,146 --> 00:25:41,066 own words. They said that it's metacognitive work. Somebody said it's cheating at life. 251 00:25:41,866 --> 00:25:49,846 It's a guided group where you are in your journey of self-improvement, a group to level up your 252 00:25:49,846 --> 00:25:59,586 thinking, somewhere to stay accountable to. But then in terms of the feedback that they give, 253 00:25:59,586 --> 00:26:03,766 like, can you summarize the biggest impact that the program had on you? 254 00:26:05,386 --> 00:26:07,606 Some of the answers were things like, 255 00:26:07,826 --> 00:26:11,946 linear growth was not going to get me to where I needed to go. 256 00:26:13,546 --> 00:26:14,646 This is a good reality. 257 00:26:14,706 --> 00:26:15,826 These are different ones. 258 00:26:16,026 --> 00:26:20,246 This is a good reality check that work is holistically part of me 259 00:26:20,246 --> 00:26:24,346 and demands more of me and can elevate me. 260 00:26:24,346 --> 00:26:32,286 somebody else said this made them reconsider how they were approaching the project that they were 261 00:26:32,286 --> 00:26:37,546 launching and because of that they've been able to get exponentially more work done 262 00:26:37,546 --> 00:26:44,126 and and here just one more I mean I can I can keep going for a while but 263 00:26:44,126 --> 00:26:50,726 this is the realization that when you care about the work you're doing and its impact on the world 264 00:26:50,726 --> 00:26:56,246 this implies a different psychological frame than most people inhabit so you need a different set of 265 00:26:56,246 --> 00:27:01,966 strategies than normal advice making work-life balance a goal in its own right has never felt 266 00:27:01,966 --> 00:27:06,726 relatable to me i've always chosen to do the work i do because i find it valuable enough to spend my 267 00:27:06,726 --> 00:27:12,086 life doing it putting so much creativity and so much energy into creative work is something i want 268 00:27:12,086 --> 00:27:16,746 to do and i appreciated that this approach suggested in the program didn't talk me out of 269 00:27:16,746 --> 00:27:23,586 maintaining this identity and so like and then some of the takeaways just a couple more is like 270 00:27:23,586 --> 00:27:29,086 like identity shift is bigger than coping strategies linear growth is for chimps 271 00:27:29,086 --> 00:27:36,506 focus on the essential use leverage being effective is not doing more of the same but better 272 00:27:36,506 --> 00:27:43,986 impact requires experimentation and course correction 10x is easier than 2x um so anyways 273 00:27:43,986 --> 00:28:09,466 That's super organic. I didn't prepare it. This is literally just

pulled off of our final feedback form of one program. I need to do better at like compiling and sharing. But I was just reading that last night because somebody was asking me about something and it was like, oh, my God, it's so humbling what people are doing with this material. And so that's what lights me up. 274 00:28:09,466 --> 00:28:19,706 That's amazing. And I think that's actually really I'm happy that you read all those because it gets I think it's a really good example of like it's not like you're sitting there working through childhood trauma with devs. 275 00:28:19,746 --> 00:28:24,966 You're talking about mindset shifts and different ways of conceptualizing what they're doing, which I think is really important. 276 00:28:24,966 --> 00:28:30,626 not only the work itself, but the distinction between you're not their psychotherapist or 277 00:28:30,626 --> 00:28:35,446 their therapist, you're helping them to sort of reframe, reconceptualize what they're doing in 278 00:28:35,446 --> 00:28:39,446 efforts to do it better, to feel more comfortable in their own skin doing it, all this kind of stuff. 279 00:28:39,506 --> 00:28:45,486 And it's really, really inspiring and super cool to see. I don't want to stray too far from the 280 00:28:45,486 --> 00:28:50,386 point you made about women. I want to touch on it quickly for two reasons. One, I saw you recently, 281 00:28:50,386 --> 00:28:53,506 I think you did a session with the Bitcoin Dada group. 282 00:28:53,906 --> 00:28:57,066 And I recently wrote a piece focused on that group, 283 00:28:57,246 --> 00:28:59,586 not only Bitcoin Dada, but Dada devs. 284 00:28:59,646 --> 00:29:01,646 So for those unfamiliar with these groups, 285 00:29:01,866 --> 00:29:07,426 Dada is Swahili for women in, I'm sorry, yeah, Swahili for women. 286 00:29:07,646 --> 00:29:12,126 And this program is run by a woman named Lorraine Marcel in Kenya. 287 00:29:12,266 --> 00:29:13,806 And it's a program for African women. 288 00:29:13,986 --> 00:29:16,566 Bitcoin Dada is a program for African women to learn about Bitcoin. 289 00:29:16,566 --> 00:29:21,546 Dada Devs is a program to help get women, African women, to start developing on Bitcoin. 290 00:29:22,066 --> 00:29:28,626 And she's recently done this really cool thing where she's actually trying to create now a physical space in Nairobi and Kenya for these women to work together. 291 00:29:28,626 --> 00:29:47,346 And, you know, I wrote this piece, Making Space for Women, Female Bitcoin Developers, because I think to your point, you know, even still, you maybe knocked down certain walls and, you know, your first confirmed female Bitcoin core developer. 292 00:29:47,546 --> 00:29:52,526 Great stuff. Exciting. As you said, it's kind of weird that nine years into Bitcoin, you're the first confirmed female working on it. 293 00:29:52,526 --> 00:29:54,626 But OK, that's like a story for another day. 294 00:29:55,706 --> 00:29:56,846 You know, but it was weird. 295 00:29:56,926 --> 00:30:03,766 You know, I published this piece and I get a lot of people pushing back, like, you know, keep this woke stuff out of Bitcoin. 296 00:30:03,766 --> 00:30:05,906 Why would Bitcoin need African women? 297 00:30:06,046 --> 00:30:08,486 Just ignorant bullshit, to be blunt. 298 00:30:08,566 --> 00:30:09,386 I'm sorry about the language. 299 00:30:09,746 --> 00:30:13,286 But is that still just deeply prevalent? 300 00:30:13,526 --> 00:30:15,626 Do most women feel that that's the case? 301 00:30:15,666 --> 00:30:21,786 And I'll say one last thing before I pass it over to you is, you know, when Lorraine Marcel started this program, 302 00:30:21,786 --> 00:30:31,586 I was talking to her about it and the women, the developers were like, we want a space as developers, much like the space you gave us when we were just learning about Bitcoin. 303 00:30:31,906 --> 00:30:38,686 We want that space for it to be not only women, but African women in this situation where they're comfortable working with one another. 304 00:30:39,906 --> 00:30:45,626 You know, a lot of times we talk about Bitcoin as global open system, freedom, money. 305 00:30:45,626 --> 00:30:52,886 But on the social level of it, these women still don't feel comfortable just being a part of the broader community. 306 00:30:52,886 --> 00:30:54,206 They want some space for themselves. 307 00:30:54,646 --> 00:30:55,806 I don't I don't want to say that, actually. 308 00:30:55,886 --> 00:30:56,926 Let me let me rewind. 309 00:30:57,226 --> 00:30:59,026 They do want to be part of the broader community. 310 00:30:59,026 --> 00:31:10,826 But in doing their work, they also want to save space to do the work that they're doing and to sort of be maybe in a place where they don't feel judged or put into a certain container, whatever it may be. 311 00:31:10,826 --> 00:31:14,846 I don't want to put words or or I don't want to put words in their mouths. 312 00:31:15,626 --> 00:31:32,266 So what is this dynamic? Why does it still exist? Shouldn't we be on this sort of open permissionless network? Shouldn't we be embracing a diversity of developers and input? And if we should be, why is that not necessarily happening? 313 00:31:32,266 --> 00:32:02,246 Yeah, totally. 314 00:32:02,266 --> 00:32:10,186 Bitcoin network. So nodes themselves, one of the fundamental questions of a Bitcoin node 315 00:32:10,186 --> 00:32:19,046 running in a peer-to-peer network of unknown size, unknown trustability, yet you have to connect to 316 00:32:19,046 --> 00:32:24,266 nodes in a way that you're not going to fall over, like you're not going to be DOS attacked, 317 00:32:24,706 --> 00:32:31,146 and you're staying connected to the main chain. Then on top of that, hopefully you're able to 318 00:32:31,146 --> 00:32:39,646 maintain some level of privacy. And our main mechanism for ensuring security of am I connected 319 00:32:39,646 --> 00:32:45,226 to the main chain, the most fundamental question of Bitcoin,

like the blockchain can be perfect, 320 00:32:45,226 --> 00:32:53,786 but if you are connected to one entity, then that's an eclipse attack. And the amount of 321 00:32:53,786 --> 00:33:00,086 different issues that they can create if you're eclipsed is like practically infinite. It might 322 00:33:00,086 --> 00:33:04,886 take some time, but they can, you're not on the main chain. You're not even participating in the 323 00:33:04,886 --> 00:33:08,506 Bitcoin network. That's how fundamental this is, right? Could I clarify for maybe some of the 324 00:33:08,506 --> 00:33:12,666 technical minded people out there, or could I ask you to clarify? So what happened? You spin up a 325 00:33:12,666 --> 00:33:17,606 node, you believe that you're interacting, engaging with the main chain, but you're not necessarily, 326 00:33:17,766 --> 00:33:20,766 what is actually happening in this scenario that you're talking about? 327 00:33:21,566 --> 00:33:26,246 Yeah, there's a couple different ways that it could happen. An eclipse attack is essentially 328 00:33:26,246 --> 00:33:30,206 the idea where you think you're connected to several different entities, but you're really 329 00:33:30,206 --> 00:33:37,946 connected to just one entity. And then if you have one malicious entity between you and your 330 00:33:37,946 --> 00:33:43,806 perception of the network, then different things they can do. They can make sure your transactions 331 00:33:43,806 --> 00:33:48,486 never actually make it to the network. They can make sure you don't get the blocks. They can make 332 00:33:48,486 --> 00:33:55,826 sure that like they can have a really long time to mine fake blocks. So your idea of the ledger 333 00:33:55,826 --> 00:33:57,846 is no longer the actual ledger. 334 00:33:58,046 --> 00:34:02,666 Like, essentially, there are some mechanisms that matter 335 00:34:02,666 --> 00:34:06,326 in terms of Bitcoin that are part of Bitcoin's brilliance, 336 00:34:06,686 --> 00:34:11,386 but the amount of damage they can do is pretty unbounded, you know? 337 00:34:12,046 --> 00:34:14,866 And so that's one main one. 338 00:34:15,286 --> 00:34:18,146 Also, there could be, like, partition attacks, 339 00:34:18,546 --> 00:34:21,466 which if there's a partition, 340 00:34:21,466 --> 00:34:29,466 whether intentional and malicious or unintentional, you essentially have multiple different ledgers. 341 00:34:29,906 --> 00:34:36,926 And I personally think that if that occurred, it's game over for Bitcoin. So these are pretty fatal. 342 00:34:37,586 --> 00:34:41,586 Big issues. And now I'm anxious, too. So I'm going to get off this topic. I'm just kidding. 343 00:34:42,046 --> 00:34:46,346 This, I think, is a different rabbit hole we could go down, but I would love to maybe just 344 00:34:46,346 --> 00:34:49,906 bring it back to what you were saying. You were using this as an analogy or a metaphor for the 345 00:34:49,906 --> 00:34:55,606 situation with the female Bitcoin developers. Just wanted to maybe bring it back if you don't mind. 346 00:34:56,206 --> 00:35:01,486 Yeah, yeah, of course. So basically, these are worst case things that we don't want to happen. 347 00:35:01,486 --> 00:35:06,686 And as a P2P dev, worked a lot on preventing those thinking about it ways it could, right? 348 00:35:07,066 --> 00:35:16,066 The main strategy for as a node, what you do, and this is in your individual best interest, 349 00:35:16,066 --> 00:35:19,606 as well as in the network topology best interest. 350 00:35:20,346 --> 00:35:23,686 The main strategy is to diversify your peers. 351 00:35:24,526 --> 00:35:27,746 On the P2P level, any information you can get a hold of, 352 00:35:27,986 --> 00:35:32,766 what's their IP address, what's the ASN range of them, 353 00:35:33,386 --> 00:35:36,806 what's the ping time, who provided me the last block, 354 00:35:37,046 --> 00:35:42,426 any information, what kind of connection is it that you can get a hold of, 355 00:35:42,426 --> 00:35:48,366 You just try to diversify as much as possible along all indices. 356 00:35:50,106 --> 00:35:50,726 That's it. 357 00:35:50,866 --> 00:35:56,226 That's our security principle that runs Bitcoin Core and runs the Bitcoin network. 358 00:35:56,646 --> 00:35:59,826 I have a question here because this is something I think about often. 359 00:35:59,946 --> 00:36:03,886 So I'm not just asking this for the sake of the show and the listener, but for myself here. 360 00:36:04,166 --> 00:36:09,626 So when I think a lot about this, I often go over to ChainCodeLabs, where I think you actually worked for a little bit. 361 00:36:09,626 --> 00:36:15,626 beautiful on the 38th floor or something in this gorgeous building in New York, 362 00:36:15,706 --> 00:36:17,526 overlooks New York City, all this kind of stuff. 363 00:36:17,606 --> 00:36:19,786 It feels kind of very ivory tower-ish, if you will. 364 00:36:19,946 --> 00:36:23,486 It's very sort of like, here's a place where the really smart developers go. 365 00:36:23,926 --> 00:36:26,686 But that almost feels a little bit antithetical to Bitcoin. 366 00:36:26,866 --> 00:36:30,166 Don't we want the brainpower that's working, that's contributing to Bitcoin 367 00:36:30,166 --> 00:36:31,846 to be spread out around the world? 368 00:36:31,966 --> 00:36:36,206 So when you talk about diversification, is that what you're referencing to some level? 369 00:36:36,206 --> 00:36:40,646 that we want people from around the world to feel welcome to contributing to this, 370 00:36:41,006 --> 00:36:45,246 that it's actually necessary for the security of Bitcoin for that to be the case, 371 00:36:45,466 --> 00:36:51,206 for people, for there to be some sort of, at the very least, sort of people spread out jurisdictionally, 372 00:36:51,266 --> 00:36:56,026 but also from an input standpoint that people are looking at problems through all different lenses 373 00:36:56,026 --> 00:36:59,866 and all different lived experiences and then addressing those

problems in those ways. 374 00:37:00,006 --> 00:37:02,046 Is that a little bit of what you're getting at here, 375 00:37:02,046 --> 00:37:05,866 or am I just taking that and running with it in some strange direction? 376 00:37:06,206 --> 00:37:25,006 No, absolutely right. If we want Bitcoin to be resilient for the long term, then the people who are building it and we need developers, that whole idea of ossification is extremely ungrounded because security is an arms race and privacy is an arms race. 377 00:37:25,006 --> 00:37:32,266 and that is completely true in the digital world and so maintaining software is also something that 378 00:37:32,266 --> 00:37:38,066 doesn't just end so maintenance privacy and security are things that are going to need to 379 00:37:38,066 --> 00:37:43,606 be ongoing even if you think the feature set doesn't need to change so we need developers 380 00:37:43,606 --> 00:37:53,006 okay then who if you want resilience then what you want is a diversity of perspectives 381 00:37:53,006 --> 00:38:06,386 And that's harder to measure. That's harder to evaluate. So what you can do at minimum is make sure there's diversity on indices that are easier to measure. 382 00:38:06,386 --> 00:38:18,986 You can make sure that gender is varied, that cultural context and geographic population is varied, which is not to say that places like Chaincode can't exist. 383 00:38:18,986 --> 00:38:35,666 But it would be a very, very different conversation if Chaincode was the only place that Bitcoin developers were making impact versus Chaincode being one of the places that Bitcoin developers are making impact. 384 00:38:35,666 --> 00:38:41,126 like taking it to the other extreme and saying no to bitcoin developers can talk to each other 385 00:38:41,126 --> 00:38:47,426 because then they're just going to have the same narrow perspective would also be irrational and 386 00:38:47,426 --> 00:38:56,946 harmful you know so it is about finding a balance of non-homogeneous thought and so 387 00:38:56,946 --> 00:39:04,306 this to me is a security principle it's not some like woke agenda i'm not saying 388 00:39:04,306 --> 00:39:12,026 let's employ people based on exactly how they look or where they're from. 389 00:39:12,706 --> 00:39:17,646 It's let's have high-quality contributors who come from different backgrounds 390 00:39:17,646 --> 00:39:23,966 because that's the only way we're going to meet the goal of being global money. 391 00:39:26,006 --> 00:39:28,406 Beautifully put. I appreciate that. Thank you. 392 00:39:29,646 --> 00:39:31,306 It's comforting to hear from you. 393 00:39:31,306 --> 00:39:37,026 It's a thought that I have often, but as someone who has worked on Bitcoin, it's very comforting to hear that. 394 00:39:39,106 --> 00:39:50,866 One of the things that I often think about here is, generally speaking, I think it can be difficult or trying to work in the Bitcoin space because you're building on a network that's largely misunderstood. 395 00:39:51,386 --> 00:39:55,066 You're building a new form of money unlike anything the world has ever seen. 396 00:39:56,306 --> 00:39:58,686 Most of the world still thinks Bitcoin is a scam. 397 00:39:58,686 --> 00:40:23,626 And I'm thinking on a certain level, is there a, whether you're a developer, an open source dev, or maybe you're an activist, or maybe you're running a Bitcoin circular economy, or you're doing what Lorraine Marcel is doing with Bitcoin data, is there a mental health, are there mental health challenges that innately come with that, doing something that, I wouldn't call it countercultural so much anymore, but it's definitely not the norm. 398 00:40:23,626 --> 00:40:35,286 I mean, I know that Bitcoin is becoming a little bit better understood, a little bit more well known, but some of the culture, it's still a relatively small group of people, you know, compared to the global population. 399 00:40:35,846 --> 00:40:45,586 Are there psychological challenges that come with that in and of itself being looked at by the mainstream population as different as what are you doing over there? 400 00:40:45,626 --> 00:40:46,486 What's happening over there? 401 00:40:46,666 --> 00:40:47,906 Why are you talking about privacy? 402 00:40:48,006 --> 00:40:48,706 What do you have to hide? 403 00:40:48,806 --> 00:40:50,346 Why do you want to use a different kind of money? 404 00:40:50,386 --> 00:40:51,606 What's wrong with the money we have? 405 00:40:51,606 --> 00:40:56,866 it does all that great on anyone like i said from devs to some of the people maybe doing some of the 406 00:40:56,866 --> 00:41:01,266 educational work on the front lines or activism work or running a circular economy 407 00:41:01,266 --> 00:41:07,366 yeah i mean well the life of an activist is really easy 408 00:41:07,366 --> 00:41:11,826 super relaxing martinis and lawn chairs yeah 409 00:41:11,826 --> 00:41:21,586 um yeah and so i would say the cognitive burdens are very real uh definitely i think there are 410 00:41:21,586 --> 00:41:30,326 a lot of mental health challenges that people face um but i i am kind of careful to to acknowledge 411 00:41:30,326 --> 00:41:46,452 like my limitations in speaking to like exactly the mental health side of things like i think the world would be a better place if everybody had a therapist they love uh I not trained in any of that And so I do want to kind of like be careful 412 00:41:46,572 --> 00:41:49,892 And I think people's experiences are so individualized, right? 413 00:41:50,212 --> 00:41:51,852 It's not just what you're working on. 414 00:41:51,872 --> 00:41:54,192 It's also like your lifetime of context. 415 00:41:55,112 --> 00:41:59,512 But that said, I definitely think there's plenty about like shared cognitive burdens 416 00:41:59,512 --> 00:42:01,032 that we can talk more about. 417 00:42:01,032 --> 00:42:07,292 is this loops back a little bit to being a builder in this space, 418 00:42:08,032 --> 00:42:08,992

permissionless builders. 419 00:42:08,992 --> 00:42:14,492 And that feels like the focus of who it is supporting. 420 00:42:14,972 --> 00:42:18,432 It's people building freedom technology. 421 00:42:19,312 --> 00:42:23,912 And part of that is doing it in a permissionless or unaffiliated way. 422 00:42:25,572 --> 00:42:28,872 There are a lot of cognitive burdens. 423 00:42:28,872 --> 00:42:35,552 some of them are shared by all for example the struggle of being a solopreneur means you have to 424 00:42:35,552 --> 00:42:40,152 you have to figure out what you're working on figure out how you're going to work on it 425 00:42:40,152 --> 00:42:47,792 figure out when you work on it figure out who you work on it with figure out how you talk about 426 00:42:47,792 --> 00:42:55,012 what you're doing in order to raise money figure out how you talk about what you're doing in order 427 00:42:55,012 --> 00:43:00,332 to get buy-in from the community, whether it's a review on a PR, whether it's people 428 00:43:00,332 --> 00:43:01,572 using your application. 429 00:43:02,752 --> 00:43:07,852 There's different layers of communication, marketing, all that. 430 00:43:08,472 --> 00:43:10,872 And that's just off the top of my head. 431 00:43:11,252 --> 00:43:17,032 I'm not even yet mentioning things like, oh, mentoring others is important for the ecosystem. 432 00:43:17,192 --> 00:43:22,292 If nobody mentored anyone, the ecosystem would essentially die off because knowledge is, 433 00:43:22,292 --> 00:43:27,992 A lot is captured on GitHub, but that is not a good way to get a full picture. 434 00:43:29,072 --> 00:43:33,332 I have seen tons of people onboard into Bitcoin Core specifically. 435 00:43:33,992 --> 00:43:48,112 And out of like tens, if not maybe even a hundred people I've seen, there's like five tops who have really just lurked around GitHub and then become meaningful contributors. 436 00:43:48,912 --> 00:43:57,592 Almost everyone talks to people, gets some, like, the GitHub contributions might help them build up credibility in order to create a direct relationship. 437 00:43:57,592 --> 00:44:09,072 But whether it's a collaborator relationship, whether it's an onboarding program, whether it's a mentor, whatever it is, everybody has to talk to people to get their work forward. 438 00:44:10,552 --> 00:44:17,252 So anyways, all of these different aspects in a company, you have support, right? 439 00:44:17,252 --> 00:44:23,132 You have team offsites and you have a Slack channel and you have a manager and you have 440 00:44:23,132 --> 00:44:27,032 different elements of support that is divvied up between the company. 441 00:44:27,852 --> 00:44:32,832 And when you're a builder in Bitcoin, whether you're running a circular economy, whether 442 00:44:32,832 --> 00:44:39,252 you're being an educator, whether you're writing code, whether you're building a Nostra app, 443 00:44:39,612 --> 00:44:42,892 you have to take on a lot more different roles. 444 00:44:42,892 -->

00:44:47,432 and the cognitive burden of that is real. 445 00:44:47,432 --> 00:44:52,272 And if you don't put conscious attention into prioritization, 446 00:44:52,692 --> 00:44:58,992 into strategies for how you turn your brain off sometimes, 447 00:44:59,512 --> 00:45:04,272 into these aspects of what is most important, 448 00:45:05,252 --> 00:45:08,212 then you're paying a constant cognitive tax 449 00:45:08,212 --> 00:45:11,892 and that really, really adds up. 450 00:45:11,892 --> 00:45:28,512 And so that's very real. And the other thing I'll mention, since we have talked about global majority countries and being a woman and, you know, you mentioned a little bit earlier some of the BS that people are like, this is a woke agenda, whatever. 451 00:45:28,512 --> 00:45:44,952 Unfortunately, I think that the people who have experienced systemic bias in our world have additional cognitive taxes or burdens to pay. 452 00:45:46,352 --> 00:45:51,192 And this sucks, but is the truth of the world we live in. 453 00:45:51,392 --> 00:45:55,132 This is my perception of how it works. 454 00:45:55,132 --> 00:46:05,712 And so when you grow up either looking different or being told that you're different the whole time, there are, I call it shackles. 455 00:46:06,032 --> 00:46:13,112 That might be a little bit vague, but essentially that's how I refer to those cognitive taxes that are put in place. 456 00:46:13,632 --> 00:46:17,612 And it requires an extra effort to overcome that. 457 00:46:17,612 --> 00:46:25,132 um while that is definitely unfortunate in terms of the world that I want to live in that is fair 458 00:46:25,132 --> 00:46:32,292 and equitable and just I also think that means there's a lot of opportunity because 459 00:46:32,292 --> 00:46:41,292 everyone not everyone but the vast majority of people have some story of of why you're other 460 00:46:41,292 --> 00:46:48,552 and so if you understand where that's weighing you down that's really where there's a very high 461 00:46:48,552 --> 00:46:54,652 leverage opportunity and that's also where external support can be really valuable from 462 00:46:54,652 --> 00:46:59,612 helping like cut those chains and then and then if you're free of it then you can just express 463 00:46:59,612 --> 00:47:06,592 your creativity and those individual creativity ideas things is where I think true innovation 464 00:47:06,592 --> 00:47:13,152 comes from. That's what I believe. That's what Way is founded on. That's what Way is desiring to 465 00:47:13,152 --> 00:47:19,312 help elevate. It's not telling people what to do or how to do it. It's helping unleash what's 466 00:47:19,312 --> 00:47:25,832 holding you back so that your own perspective of the world can release itself. And that's where 467 00:47:25,832 --> 00:47:31,852 some of the most inspiring stories have come from. Another story that's coming to mind is 468 00:47:31,852 --> 00:47:42,332 Kochi, who I've worked with personally, who she has a very technical, straightforward, like very, 469 00:47:42,472 --> 00:47:50,792 very practical point of view. And we worked together for a while. And she, at some point, 470 00:47:50,852 --> 00:47:54,872 was like, you know, you were always saying, like, follow your curiosity, follow your curiosity. And 471 00:47:54,872 --> 00:48:00,812 I was like, what does that mean? How do I do that? That's very, you know, I don't even know how to 472 00:48:00,812 --> 00:48:04,012 represent her without using my own words like nebulous or something but she was just like I 473 00:48:04,012 --> 00:48:10,132 never knew what that meant but then finally I understood that my ability to to conceive of this 474 00:48:10,132 --> 00:48:18,152 problem is is unique and and if I can put forward my own conception of the problem then that's going 475 00:48:18,152 --> 00:48:28,792 to add essentially meaningful intellectual value to the shared collective and and this was her story 476 00:48:28,792 --> 00:48:38,692 of how she transformed into going from like being intimidated to review PRs on the Lightning 477 00:48:38,692 --> 00:48:46,472 protocol into putting forward a protocol spec and development, bringing together a different 478 00:48:46,472 --> 00:48:53,412 world of study that exists in a distributed knowledge system that is not in our software 479 00:48:53,412 --> 00:49:03,712 world as the grounds for a lightning protocol improvement. And that's like, you know, to her, 480 00:49:03,892 --> 00:49:08,812 I can't even understand all the details of exactly what's going on. I haven't dug into lightning and 481 00:49:08,812 --> 00:49:13,592 it's just like brilliantly technical and I've sent it to smarter people than me who are, you know, 482 00:49:13,952 --> 00:49:21,912 better versed. But I kind of loved that, her feedback of like, I had no clue what you were 483 00:49:21,912 --> 00:49:26,912 talking about but now i'm kind of getting it and it translating into this like protocol spec 484 00:49:26,912 --> 00:49:32,712 improvement you know that's a and that's amazing and that's a really beautiful thing i think sort of 485 00:49:32,712 --> 00:49:38,612 spirituality i don't maybe this isn't the best way to put it but i think you'll get the point 486 00:49:38,612 --> 00:49:43,292 like spirituality 101 it's that idea of like being present getting rid of these constraints 487 00:49:43,292 --> 00:49:48,332 the normal way we think about the world creating space for us to sort of be who we are and for our 488 00:49:48,332 --> 00:49:54,532 brilliance to come forth and to shine and then to, you know, become what it became in this instance 489 00:49:54,532 --> 00:49:58,352 that you just defined. I think that that's really the work and that's what you're helping people do. 490 00:49:58,872 --> 00:50:03,892 The technical ability is there in all of these cases, it seems like with what you're talking 491 00:50:03,892 --> 00:50:09,332 about. It's now just finding, it's allowing it to express itself. Is that a

fair way to, 492 00:50:09,332 --> 00:50:14,432 like a fair synopsis or a fair way to, you're creating the space for people to express it or 493 00:50:14,432 --> 00:50:19,552 giving them a framework or a new way of looking at what they're doing for them to be able to sort of 494 00:50:19,552 --> 00:50:24,052 release what it is they have inside of them. Not that they know exactly what that is, but to give 495 00:50:24,052 --> 00:50:28,112 them space to see a problem and to come up with a solution for it, that they have the technical 496 00:50:28,112 --> 00:50:33,972 capabilities to solve. But maybe, as you mentioned earlier, have maybe an emotional or psychological 497 00:50:33,972 --> 00:50:41,092 hurdle that might be impeding them from getting to the core, no pun intended, of what that issue is. 498 00:50:41,092 --> 00:50:48,792 So what I wanted to just kind of maybe finally touch on, and actually I'll stop there for a second, but I get anything wrong there. 499 00:50:48,992 --> 00:50:49,072 Yeah. 500 00:50:49,672 --> 00:50:52,372 I just wanted to really agree with that. 501 00:50:52,792 --> 00:50:56,892 And that is the space that Way is coming in as. 502 00:50:57,192 --> 00:51:02,752 It's essentially if you have ever had a really good manager, how they support you. 503 00:51:02,872 --> 00:51:09,512 But it's doing that in a open source first, decentralized first kind of way. 504 00:51:09,512 --> 00:51:18,052 and it's not to say that there isn't importance of technical material and support. 505 00:51:18,552 --> 00:51:25,672 It's very important and there's amazing onboarding programs that are going on for devs all around the world 506 00:51:25,672 --> 00:51:32,172 and there's also all sorts of different, you know, if you're an educator, 507 00:51:32,172 --> 00:51:35,652 you do need to understand the subject matter material. 508 00:51:36,372 --> 00:51:47,972 It's just that way is coming in to provide this other element of support that is valuable and saying, OK, you're already resourced in learning the domain knowledge in a different way. 509 00:51:47,972 --> 00:51:48,732 You know? 510 00:51:49,312 --> 00:51:50,572 Yep. Appreciate that. 511 00:51:50,572 --> 00:51:56,912 one of the things the last thing that i'd like to touch on is maybe just some practical things for 512 00:51:56,912 --> 00:52:03,452 people listening um that they can do uh just maybe two or three maybe takeaways things that 513 00:52:03,452 --> 00:52:07,472 they can practice on their own to help maybe create space for these sorts of things to happen 514 00:52:07,472 --> 00:52:13,812 certain breakthroughs or their ability to express something and again if if possible you know anyone 515 00:52:13,812 --> 00:52:19,012 from the open source dev to again i have in my mind someone putting together a community somewhere in 516 00:52:19,012 --> 00:52:26,112 Africa or Latin America, circular economy, some takeaways for them, things they might 517 00:52:26,112 --> 00:52:28,892 be able to practice to enable that sort of expression. 518 00:52:29,712 --> 00:52:30,072 Definitely. 519 00:52:30,452 --> 00:52:30,652 Yeah. 520 00:52:30,772 --> 00:52:31,952 Let's get into it. 521 00:52:32,772 --> 00:52:43,172 So I think the number one thing that I like to start with is relevant to absolutely everyone 522 00:52:43,172 --> 00:52:48,312 and is understanding your deepest why. 523 00:52:49,012 --> 00:52:59,292 Why are, why do you care? Why are you doing this? And that should really inform what you do, 524 00:52:59,912 --> 00:53:09,392 you know, but first getting very tangible, because when we make space to explicitly ask 525 00:53:09,392 --> 00:53:17,372 that question, sometimes the answers, it's not that they're usually surprising, 526 00:53:17,372 --> 00:53:26,852 but it is surprising how often we're motivated by things that don't correlate with that deepest why. 527 00:53:29,252 --> 00:53:39,812 So starting with really, really knowing why you care can inform what you care about or how you go about it. 528 00:53:39,812 --> 00:53:50,852 and that relates to the other part which is to focus on the most important thing 529 00:53:50,852 --> 00:54:03,072 and and both of these are very universal and it's not novel it's not creative you've heard 530 00:54:03,072 --> 00:54:10,732 these concepts in a hundred million different ways but that to me is the essence of any 531 00:54:10,732 --> 00:54:17,812 any improvement that you try to do on yourself whether you're like oh I want more flow state or 532 00:54:17,812 --> 00:54:28,192 you are I want to um stop feeling terrible or whatever it is um understanding that that 533 00:54:28,192 --> 00:54:40,992 that two-part thing of why am I motivated for something and what is the focus of that. 534 00:54:41,712 --> 00:54:44,972 It helps you figure out what the most important thing is. 535 00:54:45,592 --> 00:54:48,932 And that is harder than ever in today's world. 536 00:54:49,312 --> 00:54:57,952 We are all slammed by so many pulls on our attention from a million different directions. 537 00:54:58,192 --> 00:55:08,672 And it's so funny because a little bit of explicit time to answer these questions goes such a long way. 538 00:55:09,032 --> 00:55:14,972 And yet it's extremely uncomfortable to actually spend the time doing that. 539 00:55:14,972 --> 00:55:26,092 So one of the things that we've been doing with Way, and it started prior but has been going on, is there's a template. 540 00:55:26,092 --> 00:55:28,872 It's available on our website called AIR. 541 00:55:29,092 --> 00:55:31,772 It's short for Actions, Intentions, Reflections. 542 00:55:32,112 --> 00:55:36,452 You look back at the last month and you say, what were the actions that I did? 543 00:55:36,652 --> 00:55:41,732 And that's kind of very practical and literal. 544 00:55:41,732 --> 00:55:43,172 And then you have the reflections. 545 00:55:43,172 --> 00:55:48,532 those are your more narrative storytelling feelings whatever about how you feel about

it 546 00:55:48,532 --> 00:55:54,892 like wow I did so much or I did so little most of the time people in the space we hear over and 547 00:55:54,892 --> 00:55:59,532 over again they're like wow I thought I didn't do anything but then I listed it out and then I was 548 00:55:59,532 --> 00:56:06,812 like I actually did a bunch and experience intrinsic value there and then and then you move on to 549 00:56:06,812 --> 00:56:12,332 looking at the next month and that's the I that's the intentions and you might set goals you might 550 00:56:12,332 --> 00:56:19,072 set more of direction of what you want to achieve. And doing this, it's a short amount of time that 551 00:56:19,072 --> 00:56:26,172 it's one hour a month. And often it's even just 30 minutes of that hour. But doing that is so 552 00:56:26,172 --> 00:56:34,732 game changing for so many of us. And yet, we all drag our feet. We're like, we have to make each 553 00:56:34,732 --> 00:56:40,192 other accountable because none of us it's like, no, no, no, it sounds like one hour. But it's like, 554 00:56:40,192 --> 00:56:44,372 no no no i can i'll do backflips before i spend this hour 555 00:56:44,372 --> 00:56:51,192 no i don't know how to do backflips but i'll figure it out yeah i'll do that i'll read a 556 00:56:51,192 --> 00:56:57,252 book on backflips for that hour instead of actually reflecting yeah exactly yeah so it's 557 00:56:57,252 --> 00:57:03,652 such a powerful thing and the challenge of doing it is just as hard as it is powerful 558 00:57:03,652 --> 00:57:09,692 that's but can i ask yeah can i i have a question there do you find that with the with most of this 559 00:57:09,692 --> 00:57:16,792 work, you know, oftentimes, you know, whether it's in self-help books or the advice that we get, 560 00:57:16,852 --> 00:57:21,452 whatever it is, it's the same thing over and over. It's that most people read the book, 561 00:57:21,452 --> 00:57:25,152 but never actually practice anything in it because the practicing it is the tough part. 562 00:57:25,512 --> 00:57:30,012 Sometimes it's just sort of the mental, I don't want to do this. I'm not conditioned to do this. 563 00:57:30,092 --> 00:57:34,772 I don't want to have to reflect on this thing. Sometimes it's just not prioritizing it. Maybe 564 00:57:34,772 --> 00:57:38,552 you're feeling good that week, that month, whatever. I don't need it. Everything's sort of good. 565 00:57:38,552 --> 00:57:43,052 so you don't feel like you're in this state of anywhere from crisis to frustration. 566 00:57:43,532 --> 00:57:49,932 And, you know, those are the places we often do kind of force ourselves to make some sort of change or reflect. 567 00:57:50,612 --> 00:57:53,912 So I think on some level, it's just the doing. 568 00:57:53,912 --> 00:57:56,752 It's not that what you're doing is all that profound. 569 00:57:56,932 --> 00:58:00,132 It's just actually doing it that becomes the problem a lot of the time. 570 00:58:00,372 --> 00:58:02,032 Would that be a fair way to say it? 571 00:58:02,732 --> 00:58:03,352 Yeah. Yeah. 572 00:58:03,352 --> 00:58:10,712 Yeah, what's coming to my mind in agreement is it's like the activity itself isn't that profound. 573 00:58:10,952 --> 00:58:14,252 Getting yourself to engage in the activity is what's profound. 574 00:58:14,532 --> 00:58:15,552 Yeah, I like that. 575 00:58:15,992 --> 00:58:16,592 I like that. 576 00:58:17,172 --> 00:58:18,932 Yeah, totally agree. 577 00:58:20,232 --> 00:58:20,972 Amazing stuff. 578 00:58:21,172 --> 00:58:29,912 Any other, maybe one or two other small, I guess, not technical things, just tips, things to keep in mind maybe as you're working on whatever you're working on? 579 00:58:29,912 --> 00:58:41,212 Well, I would love to dig into that specific one a little bit more through a couple more lenses because I think that's what makes it giving us more material to engage with. 580 00:58:42,012 --> 00:58:48,692 So the idea of figuring out the most important thing, one framework. 581 00:58:48,792 --> 00:58:50,232 So I want to talk about it from two different lenses. 582 00:58:50,512 --> 00:58:54,432 One is a metaphor that's been a framework that's really resonated with a lot of people. 583 00:58:54,912 --> 00:58:58,252 And two is a bit of the neuroscience of why this matters. 584 00:58:58,252 --> 00:59:11,092 game cool so um i think we've talked about this 10x framework but this idea is that 10x is easier 585 00:59:11,092 --> 00:59:18,072 than 2x um it came from there's there's a book about it i haven't read it but um noemi boyer 586 00:59:18,072 --> 00:59:26,612 who is the ceo of demo labs and chief happiness officer at uh the reynolds foundation she was a 587 00:59:26,612 --> 00:59:33,652 lead facilitator for one of the group programs, OS Reboot, that we ran last year and introduced 588 00:59:33,652 --> 00:59:38,732 this model, which resonated with people. And then I've been going around sharing it and 589 00:59:38,732 --> 00:59:44,952 experiencing similar resonance. So that's the context of where this came from. But the idea is 590 00:59:44,952 --> 00:59:49,272 that like, okay, you're building a plane, right? You're already working on whatever project you're 591 00:59:49,272 --> 00:59:59,332 working on. Let's say you are a Bitcoin writer, for example. So you have your plane and it's going 592 00:59:59,332 --> 01:00:05,032 along and you realize that there's places you got to go, right? There's dictators that need to be 593 01:00:05,032 --> 01:00:14,832 overthrown. There's unbanked people. There's all this lack of information that needs to be 594 01:00:14,832 --> 01:00:23,032 resolved. So you're like, okay, how do I build a faster plane? And that is where most of us are 595 01:00:23,032 --> 01:00:30,292 naturally at. We're looking for how do I speed this plane up? And that's a 2x mindset. 596 01:00:30,952 --> 01:00:36,452 Those are 2x improvements. What maintenance can I do? Can I upgrade the engine? What 597 01:00:36,452 -->

01:00:41,392 trade-offs should I do of when I fly it versus when I have to fuel it, etc.? 598 01:00:41,392 --> 01:00:50,172 but the question that's really impactful is asking where can we shift into a 10x mindset 599 01:00:50,172 --> 01:00:58,552 and the process of doing that is stepping back which is extremely uncomfortable that's the 600 01:00:58,552 --> 01:01:03,692 discomfort we're talking about what does that mean as you say is that sometimes there's a little bit 601 01:01:03,692 --> 01:01:08,212 of letting go of thinking we're doing it the right way i don't want to give up my my methods my 602 01:01:08,212 --> 01:01:12,632 approach to this thing is that is that would that be a little bit extra context to add there 603 01:01:12,632 --> 01:01:20,672 totally totally definitely have to let go um have to have to realize that hey 604 01:01:20,672 --> 01:01:29,652 the improvements the 2x improvements i do this week are never gonna get me as fast as if i 605 01:01:29,652 --> 01:01:37,672 truly step back and i don't know what's coming next yet but i have to believe that i can design 606 01:01:37,672 --> 01:01:43,412 a rocket ship. And that's why I love this metaphor, because then you're like, oh, yeah, 607 01:01:43,432 --> 01:01:51,932 a rocket goes way faster than a plane could. But I really try when I communicate it to communicate 608 01:01:51,932 --> 01:01:56,932 that process of when you step back from building a faster plane, you don't know what's coming. 609 01:01:57,312 --> 01:02:00,892 You're not like, I'm designing a rocket. I'm designing a rocket. Like you have to just step 610 01:02:00,892 --> 01:02:07,552 into this unknown, uncomfortable, unfamiliar, and say, I believe, you kind of have to take 611 01:02:07,552 --> 01:02:13,412 a leap of faith, say, I believe I can do this in an exponentially faster way. 612 01:02:14,332 --> 01:02:19,572 And then if you believe that, then you can imagine a rocket. 613 01:02:20,992 --> 01:02:24,552 And I've seen evidence of this time and time again. 614 01:02:24,552 --> 01:02:36,578 and in this past year have been blown away by freedom tech builders who are adopting this and using it to leverage their own projects 615 01:02:37,398 --> 01:02:40,818 But it is so, so uncomfortable. 616 01:02:40,818 --> 01:02:43,078 And I don't want to understate that. 617 01:02:43,238 --> 01:02:46,478 It's great to look back and be like, oh, rocket, obviously, you know. 618 01:02:46,478 --> 01:03:01,598 But the process of doing that and I think it's an ongoing process of us constantly integrating those loops into our life because then there are times if you've designed a rocket ship, don't continue to step back in like forever. 619 01:03:01,958 --> 01:03:05,758 Go implement it and then repeat the process, you know. 620 01:03:05,758 --> 01:03:29,058 So it does need to be a full cycle. But that aspect of where can I go into the exponential growth curve, how can I unlock that is really, really meaningful. And I'll pause there, but then let's dive into a little bit of my understanding of the neuroscience of why that matters. 621 01:03:29,658 --> 01:03:30,098 Yeah, absolutely. 622 01:03:30,238 --> 01:03:30,858 Thank you for that. 623 01:03:30,938 --> 01:03:42,178 And there's a good book on this called, well, I won't say on this, not exactly what you just said, but another good book on that note of kind of not necessarily improving upon an airplane, but building a rocket ship. 624 01:03:42,318 --> 01:03:43,418 It's called Play Bigger. 625 01:03:43,758 --> 01:03:46,738 I think it's written by some Silicon Valley people. 626 01:03:46,738 --> 01:03:54,358 It was actually recommended to me by Jeff Booth, one of my favorite people in this space, and highly recommend it. 627 01:03:54,358 --> 01:04:00,358 And I think it's a matter of just either broadening your perspective, shifting your perspective. 628 01:04:01,118 --> 01:04:06,158 You're going to end up putting in the same or less energy and get bigger results when you do that. 629 01:04:06,278 --> 01:04:07,758 I won't say that as a default. 630 01:04:07,898 --> 01:04:09,878 We don't know, but that's the intention, right? 631 01:04:09,918 --> 01:04:15,018 It's to say, okay, I really want to accomplish this big thing the way that I'm currently going about it. 632 01:04:15,078 --> 01:04:20,418 I'm not going to do that within this time frame or within the time frame that I would like to accomplish it in. 633 01:04:20,418 --> 01:04:27,558 Or maybe I'll get halfway there, not necessarily reach all the people I was planning to reach or have the impact I was hoping to have. 634 01:04:27,998 --> 01:04:33,658 And I think one of the things that's a little bit difficult, I'll share a very quick story here. 635 01:04:33,778 --> 01:04:37,778 I used to work with the manager of an artist named India Airi. 636 01:04:38,038 --> 01:04:41,198 She was an acoustic singer-songwriter. 637 01:04:41,598 --> 01:04:46,398 And he said a lot of the work that he had to do with her was she was a really good singer-songwriter. 638 01:04:46,398 --> 01:04:50,858 and he wanted to have, she was just like, look, I'm a coffee shop. 639 01:04:51,138 --> 01:04:52,558 I'm a coffee shop musician. 640 01:04:53,098 --> 01:04:54,498 Maybe I'll get a little bit bigger than that, 641 01:04:54,538 --> 01:04:56,358 but I like intimate performances, blah, blah, blah. 642 01:04:56,498 --> 01:04:58,198 And he saw something different. 643 01:04:58,338 --> 01:05:01,478 He said, no, no, I think there's something bigger here 644 01:05:01,478 --> 01:05:02,518 that we could tap into. 645 01:05:03,238 --> 01:05:04,958 And I won't get into all the process, 646 01:05:05,158 --> 01:05:08,118 but it took some reframing for her to eventually, 647 01:05:08,458 --> 01:05:10,038 she got to a point where she co-headlined 648 01:05:10,038 --> 01:05:11,638 Madison Square Garden with Sade. 649 01:05:11,638 --> 01:05:15,318 And it's like, you sit there, 650 01:05:15,318 --> 01:05:20,258 And

sometimes I don't think it's I think sometimes correct me if I'm wrong. 651 01:05:20,618 --> 01:05:23,258 Sometimes there's even a self-confidence component to this. 652 01:05:23,438 --> 01:05:31,158 Can I be the person that creates this exponential change, believing that you can be that person, but not blindly just believing it, then coming up with a strategy. 653 01:05:31,718 --> 01:05:35,418 But the step back is the hardest part, the stepping back. 654 01:05:35,418 --> 01:05:40,658 And I think also not being not flinching at your vision. 655 01:05:40,658 --> 01:05:52,118 So if you do have that bigger vision, not convincing yourself that you're thinking too big, actually the opposite, maybe you're not thinking big enough, that tends to be people, the issue in a lot of cases. 656 01:05:52,298 --> 01:05:56,318 And this extends, in my opinion, beyond open source or Bitcoin development. 657 01:05:57,038 --> 01:05:58,798 But just, yeah, this is difficult. 658 01:05:59,018 --> 01:06:00,978 This is really, really challenging stuff. 659 01:06:00,978 --> 01:06:07,438 not even I would say less to conceptualizing the strategy, but more the stepping back and saying, 660 01:06:07,738 --> 01:06:12,418 hey, maybe I'm doing this wrong and not clinging to like, but this is the way I've always done it. 661 01:06:12,418 --> 01:06:16,298 This is the way I'm going to brute force this thing. I'm going to make it work. It's really, 662 01:06:16,418 --> 01:06:20,418 really hard to let go of that kind of stuff. It takes a little while, but I don't want to, 663 01:06:20,958 --> 01:06:25,938 I want you to get into the neuroscience of it. Yeah. It's a perfect setup. You don't even know it, 664 01:06:25,938 --> 01:06:31,218 But that's a perfect setup because what you're really talking about are identity shifts. 665 01:06:31,918 --> 01:06:37,918 And everything I've learned about the neuroscience has it points towards those identity shifts. 666 01:06:38,098 --> 01:06:40,018 So I want to share a couple of things. 667 01:06:40,298 --> 01:06:42,938 I can't remember if I mentioned earlier, but yes, I'm not a neuroscientist. 668 01:06:43,738 --> 01:06:48,158 And however, these claims have been reviewed by neuroscientists. 669 01:06:48,378 --> 01:06:52,278 So I'm not making them completely unwarranted. 670 01:06:52,278 --> 01:06:58,458 But I just want to make sure to share with the audience, engage with this with skepticism. 671 01:06:58,698 --> 01:07:01,778 If I'm wrong, let me know and let me know why and send me sources. 672 01:07:02,038 --> 01:07:09,018 You know, I'm learning in open and want to involve people in that process. 673 01:07:09,558 --> 01:07:16,178 And so the best way to take any of this neuroscience understanding I share is to treat it skeptically. 674 01:07:17,058 --> 01:07:17,558 Okay. 675 01:07:17,858 --> 01:07:18,918 So with that disclaimer. 676 01:07:20,658 --> 01:07:22,258 So identity shift. 677 01:07:22,278 --> 01:07:30,598 that is such a big deal. And most

of what I learn really reinforces that. So here's one example. 678 01:07:31,118 --> 01:07:39,298 We have a system called the reticular activating system. And it is its job is to filter out 679 01:07:39,298 --> 01:07:46,358 sensations that we experience. It's to filter out stimuli. And it's hard to get a precise number, 680 01:07:46,358 --> 01:08:00,438 But there are research papers that have claimed that over 99% of stimuli that hits your sensory body that is taken in by different receptors all over your body gets filtered out. 681 01:08:00,438 --> 01:08:13,718 And only 1% of it even makes it into your brain to possibly influence whether it's action or conception, you know, your understanding of what's going on. 682 01:08:13,718 --> 01:08:31,618 And so if you have a deeply held belief, whether it's about yourself or the world you live in or somebody else, whatever it is, then your entire body is working and in a very layered, nuanced way to reinforce that belief. 683 01:08:32,618 --> 01:08:35,978 And so that belief can be influenced. 684 01:08:36,118 --> 01:08:37,458 It can change over time. 685 01:08:37,458 --> 01:08:47,058 But these are the identity shifts that are really, really impactful and hard to access at the same time. 686 01:08:47,498 --> 01:08:49,398 It requires consistent work. 687 01:08:50,098 --> 01:09:01,218 And so doing that specific active energy to believe in a bigger version of yourself or a bigger game. 688 01:09:01,658 --> 01:09:05,898 And a lot of how we engage with it is at the mental narrative layer, right? 689 01:09:05,898 --> 01:09:11,218 finding places in your mind if you have a fear story if you have an anxiety that constantly 690 01:09:11,218 --> 01:09:18,538 comes up I mean I do this all the time um if if I was anxious uh I was recently looking for I just 691 01:09:18,538 --> 01:09:25,458 signed a lease for a new place um to live and when I was in the search it was so anxiety producing 692 01:09:25,458 --> 01:09:31,318 and I I dug into it and I saw that the fear was that I'm never going to find a place I like 693 01:09:31,318 --> 01:09:39,718 and so doing the work to recognize here's a pattern on my mind, here's the fear and then 694 01:09:39,718 --> 01:09:47,038 figuring out what is the flip of that narrative of just oh I will find a place I like and practicing 695 01:09:47,038 --> 01:09:56,698 creating just flag when I see myself feeling anxious like put a flag and say okay can I 696 01:09:56,698 --> 01:10:00,678 practice believing that I'm going to find a place even if it doesn't feel available to me right now 697 01:10:00,678 --> 01:10:03,998 Can I just like test out putting this story there? 698 01:10:04,238 --> 01:10:05,298 See how it feels. 699 01:10:05,458 --> 01:10:11,118 Like that's one way to engage with this kind of identity layer, you know. 700 01:10:12,418 --> 01:10:15,138 And so there's different ways to practice it. 701 01:10:15,198 --> 01:10:16,338 You can do it at a somatic layer. 702 01:10:16,418 --> 01:10:17,698 You can do it at a psychological layer. 703 01:10:17,818 --> 01:10:20,338 You can do all sorts of different techniques to it. 704 01:10:20,338 --> 01:10:37,218 But that is how you train your body to be open to information that helps reinforce the type of existence you want rather than reinforcing the shortcomings that you perceive. 705 01:10:37,218 --> 01:10:44,898 beautifully put yeah i think it's a huge stopping stopping yourself in your own tracks when you're 706 01:10:44,898 --> 01:10:49,218 having that thought realizing that it's a thought that it's not reality that it's something you're 707 01:10:49,218 --> 01:10:55,078 going to choose to feel you know almost like that you're i'll use some some terminology here some 708 01:10:55,078 --> 01:10:59,018 open source terminology are you going to merge this into your reality are you going to say no 709 01:10:59,018 --> 01:11:03,078 we're not we're not going to make this part of my reality today actually we want to make it the 710 01:11:03,078 --> 01:11:07,838 opposite part of my reality today and make that change appropriately. I think it's a really 711 01:11:07,838 --> 01:11:14,538 difficult thing to do because there's a comfort in sort of falling into our old habits, even if 712 01:11:14,538 --> 01:11:20,138 that does produce anxiety for us, because we've either convinced ourselves I'm an anxious person 713 01:11:20,138 --> 01:11:25,678 or that's just the way I think or whatever it is. This is all part of us constructing our own 714 01:11:25,678 --> 01:11:30,378 reality. And in those moments, it could be really difficult to halt it because I would imagine most 715 01:11:30,378 --> 01:11:36,278 people, and I say this, I'll just say my own experience with this, is that who will I be if 716 01:11:36,278 --> 01:11:42,038 I'm not that person, if I'm not the anxious person, if I'm not the developer who does this, 717 01:11:42,078 --> 01:11:48,278 if I'm not the manager who does this, then who will I be? And I think, to your point, 718 01:11:48,358 --> 01:11:54,318 it's similar to saying, well, I don't want to create a 2x faster airplane. What will I create? 719 01:11:54,458 --> 01:12:00,178 That thought alone, that's the part that I think is hard for people. Is the future an open 720 01:12:00,178 --> 01:12:05,818 canvas or is it the sort of limited scope future that I've always envisioned or the way I've 721 01:12:05,818 --> 01:12:10,018 approached things? It's a really, really difficult place to get to, even though it sounds like it 722 01:12:10,018 --> 01:12:13,698 wouldn't be. Why wouldn't you want the whole world to be whatever? I don't want to stop you there. 723 01:12:13,718 --> 01:12:17,298 It seems like you have something to say. Yeah. You're setting me up so perfectly. 724 01:12:18,298 --> 01:12:25,158 Way to plan this, everybody. We didn't plan it. I know. I know. It's like we did though, because 725 01:12:25,158 --> 01:12:28,178 because our brains are wired that way. 726

01:12:28,478 --> 01:12:31,858 And so I want to talk about the DMN versus the TPN. 727 01:12:32,418 --> 01:12:35,018 The DMN is the default mode network. 728 01:12:35,018 --> 01:12:37,218 And that's our autopilot. 729 01:12:37,758 --> 01:12:43,018 It is literally named that because when they did the brain scans of people, 730 01:12:43,178 --> 01:12:45,238 this is the default. 731 01:12:45,598 --> 01:12:51,998 Most of the time, what is there, it's kind of like named after the average of what they see. 732 01:12:51,998 --> 01:13:00,798 then the TPN there's several different names for the an alternate network and and there's different 733 01:13:00,798 --> 01:13:06,958 like the salience network helps decide which one is in signal goes to but we don't have time to dig 734 01:13:06,958 --> 01:13:13,138 into all of that but I'm the TPN is the task positive network in the literature is used as 735 01:13:13,138 --> 01:13:21,178 the inverse of the default mode network okay cool DMN autopilot TPN the opposite TPN is going to be 736 01:13:21,178 --> 01:13:29,398 what we associate with I'm present, I'm in flow, I'm aware of what's going on. DMN is like, whoa, 737 01:13:29,478 --> 01:13:35,698 I drove to work. I don't even know how that happened. Or, you know, wow, I guess I am putting 738 01:13:35,698 --> 01:13:41,758 this candy bar in my face right now. I didn't even realize I stopped working, whatever it is, right? 739 01:13:41,758 --> 01:13:49,758 So the DMN is evolutionarily meant to keep us safe. 740 01:13:50,698 --> 01:13:59,078 And so the way it does that is it uses all past information of threat to figure out actions, 741 01:13:59,438 --> 01:14:07,958 to surface information that can show you that threat is occurring to inform action to prevent the threat. 742 01:14:07,958 --> 01:14:21,998 so our brains from a survival point of view have evolved to say I would rather prefer a known bad 743 01:14:21,998 --> 01:14:29,678 thing to an unknown possibly good thing so exactly what you're saying that's why I got so excited 744 01:14:29,678 --> 01:14:35,378 because it was a perfect setup like it's not just oh some of us are like this or not 745 01:14:35,378 --> 01:14:44,158 we are all like that by default and it's a feature not a bug but we I this is why I find the 746 01:14:44,158 --> 01:14:50,818 neuroscience really exciting because I think that if you understand how this is a strength that has 747 01:14:50,818 --> 01:14:59,858 led us to where we are you can work with it to make sure it doesn't limit you you know we from a 748 01:14:59,858 --> 01:15:06,918 mammal point of view would rather fail in the same way than expose ourselves to something that 749 01:15:06,918 --> 01:15:11,998 maybe is growth, maybe is good, sounds practical from a human point of view. It's like, yeah, 750 01:15:12,178 --> 01:15:20,538 obviously, I want to share my music with more people. But your brain has intensely fortified 751 01:15:20,538 --> 01:15:26,758 structures to say, oh, but

then people might hate you, people might throw tomatoes at you, 752 01:15:26,758 --> 01:15:30,678 Like, whatever. I don't know. So let's just do the thing that we know. 753 01:15:31,718 --> 01:15:40,518 Yes. And the magic lies within doing these things you were just talking about that may cause people to throw tomatoes at you. 754 01:15:40,518 --> 01:15:46,278 I think the magic lies in doing these things regardless. It's not that the tomatoes won't get thrown. 755 01:15:46,598 --> 01:15:54,378 I think the tomatoes oftentimes do get thrown and all the things that maybe you were scared were going to happen when you go and do something like you said, 756 01:15:54,378 --> 01:15:57,718 like share your music with the world or share something you created with the world. 757 01:15:58,638 --> 01:16:03,038 And maybe it's not as severe as tomatoes getting thrown, but maybe people just don't react to it. 758 01:16:03,098 --> 01:16:05,458 It doesn't have the intended impact you hoped it would have. 759 01:16:05,598 --> 01:16:08,378 And this is oftentimes, I think, what happens when you create stuff. 760 01:16:08,538 --> 01:16:12,918 And this isn't me just projecting years of being a musician that nobody paid attention to. 761 01:16:13,038 --> 01:16:14,478 So I'm just just putting that out there. 762 01:16:16,898 --> 01:16:19,358 So, yeah, I think it's really important what you said. 763 01:16:19,358 --> 01:16:29,498 I think that the one thing to note, though, is that if you can sort of find it within you and maybe find help and support to put your ideas out there, to put big ideas out there. 764 01:16:29,638 --> 01:16:40,458 And those ideas that maybe come to you when you make space for them to come to you that maybe feel a little ridiculous, potentially even unorthodox, those ideas tend to be special oftentimes. 765 01:16:40,538 --> 01:16:47,258 And I think if you could figure out a way to give them space and to put them out there, it feels good. 766 01:16:47,258 --> 01:16:57,198 One thing that comes to mind, actually, as I'm saying this, is sometimes from myself at least, I would get into a certain habit with the type of information I would put on Twitter. 767 01:16:57,798 --> 01:17:00,598 And it was, ah, we're on X these days. 768 01:17:00,918 --> 01:17:04,678 And it would often be related to the beat I was reporting on. 769 01:17:05,018 --> 01:17:08,838 But once in a while, I'd have just a unique idea or a thought on something. 770 01:17:08,838 --> 01:17:17,998 And maybe that didn't totally fit in with my, I don't know, whatever persona I've created, whether intentionally or not intentionally. 771 01:17:18,738 --> 01:17:24,938 And it's a little bit weird because sometimes those tweets or those ideas, when you put them out there, they don't really land right away. 772 01:17:25,458 --> 01:17:30,618 And I think then I've sort of practiced sort of like, should I just delete this? 773 01:17:30,658 --> 01:17:31,638 Why did I even say that? 774 01:17:31,698 -->

01:17:32,418 What was I thinking? 775 01:17:32,638 --> 01:17:37,798 And then, you know, some mornings you wake up and all of a sudden, you know, a bunch of people have shared it and it actually was a good idea. 776 01:17:37,798 --> 01:18:03,698 Sometimes these things, I think, just take time, right? Give yourself some space, put these ideas out there and do so in a way I think that feels comfortable to you. I think that could be, that's a whole different conversation, I think. But I think on some level, just sort of trusting that you're, especially if you're doing something like developing on Bitcoin, you're an incredibly intelligent human being. You're doing really, really important work and that your perspective is valuable. 777 01:18:03,698 --> 01:18:19,658 So just wanted to add a little bit of my two sats at the end there. I want to bring it back to you, though, to bring it home for us, Amiti, if you don't mind. Any final thoughts? And also, obviously, please do a little bit of shilling. Where can people find you? Where can they find and connect with Way? 778 01:18:19,658 --> 01:18:28,498 yeah totally yeah so just to to wrap up where where you um left us off i i i totally agree i 779 01:18:28,498 --> 01:18:35,258 think there's two different ways i look at it from the neuroscience point of view that expanding your 780 01:18:35,258 --> 01:18:41,978 identity is a really big deal your body your brain is working to reinforce your beliefs and so if you 781 01:18:41,978 --> 01:18:48,818 believe you can do something, then you are seeking evidence for that information. And if you 782 01:18:48,818 --> 01:18:55,798 go without intentionality, then you're by default not going to shift out of anything 783 01:18:55,798 --> 01:19:02,778 like that you haven't already seen or have already done. So if you want to have any kind of growth, 784 01:19:02,778 --> 01:19:08,818 whether it's personal, whether it's professional, there does require some level of intentional 785 01:19:08,818 --> 01:19:16,598 training in your body in order for your brain to organize around that. And then beyond that, 786 01:19:16,638 --> 01:19:23,958 I totally agree with what you were saying. And this part is more of my deeply held belief. And 787 01:19:23,958 --> 01:19:32,198 what Wei is founded on is essentially the idea that innovation comes from individual creativity. 788 01:19:32,978 --> 01:19:38,578 Each of us have unique, whether it's an idea, whether it's an expression, whether it's art, 789 01:19:38,578 --> 01:19:45,778 whether it's code, we all have a unique kind of perspective and offering. And that's something 790 01:19:45,778 --> 01:19:54,418 uniquely human, uniquely you, uniquely me, you know, and that's where real innovation comes from. 791 01:19:55,298 --> 01:20:01,218 And so that could be the start of an entire other episode, but instead we'll just end it here. 792 01:20:01,218 --> 01:20:09,878 that's the fundamental principle that in terms of why we exist we we talked a decent amount about 793 01:20:09,878 --> 01:20:18,198 that and challenges that are in this ecosystem for builders but our approach to to how we support 794 01:20:18,198 --> 01:20:26,358 people is essentially this how can we support you to to unshackle some of the baggage or chains or 795 01:20:26,358 --> 01:20:33,838 whatever you want to call it and and help release some of your own creativity and so that's that's 796 01:20:33,838 --> 01:20:42,598 what way is about um so yeah let me do a little bit of shilling um we've we've had amazing um 797 01:20:42,598 --> 01:20:49,338 traction this past year and we're excited to to continue playing this out and offering our support 798 01:20:49,338 --> 01:20:54,938 the best way to find out when we are doing new stuff 799 01:20:54,938 --> 01:20:56,898 is signing up for the mailing list 800 01:20:56,898 --> 01:21:00,358 you can go to way.dev 801 01:21:00,358 --> 01:21:04,518 please include it in the show notes 802 01:21:04,518 --> 01:21:06,478 and sign up for our mailing list there 803 01:21:06,478 --> 01:21:09,338 next time we release a program 804 01:21:09,338 --> 01:21:12,578 that's available with slots 805 01:21:12,578 --> 01:21:16,538 we will definitely be mentioning it there 806 01:21:16,538 --> 01:21:26,678 Right now, over this year, we're partnering with HRF and supporting 52 of their grantees, which is really exciting with group coaching and individual coaching. 807 01:21:27,438 --> 01:21:32,338 It's a whole amazing network of experts, facilitators, coaches, neuroscientists, blah, blah, blah, blah, 808 01:21:32,338 --> 01:21:38,738 that are rallying together to bring the support that exists in the ecosystem, 809 01:21:39,038 --> 01:21:43,958 things that are evidence-based, things that are well-established, to uniquely our space, 810 01:21:44,138 --> 01:21:51,698 and customizing it to the challenges that we face both as a group as well as individuals. 811 01:21:52,398 --> 01:21:54,098 And so I'm super excited. 812 01:21:54,098 --> 01:22:02,778 we are we are not the best at talking publicly it's been so amazing the engagement so I'm happy 813 01:22:02,778 --> 01:22:10,918 to be here sharing a little bit more with all of all of you audience and hopefully over the course 814 01:22:10,918 --> 01:22:17,998 of this year you'll hear more because I'm I'm so blown away by by what people are doing really and 815 01:22:17,998 --> 01:22:24,918 I think that so many of us in the community want to support the builders, and this is a really cool 816 01:22:24,918 --> 01:22:32,378 way to do it. We are very interested in donations, so if that is something you're interested in, 817 01:22:32,418 --> 01:22:36,598 you can do it on our website or email us, hello at way.dev. If you have any questions, 818 01:22:36,838 --> 01:22:43,058 hello at way.dev. I read all the emails, me and some other people, but like, yeah, we definitely 819 01:22:43,058 --> 01:22:51,138 are very attentive to everything that we are sent. And so hit us

up. We'd love to hear from you. 820 01:22:51,798 --> 01:22:56,518 A little bit. I really appreciate your taking the time to do this. Really respect the fact that you 821 01:22:56,518 --> 01:23:02,318 felt that something inside of you that caused you to pivot from doing the more technical work to 822 01:23:02,318 --> 01:23:06,098 this work. And I think that the impact you're going to have is going to be incredible and 823 01:23:06,098 --> 01:23:10,698 exponential. I think that the amount of people you reach and then the exponential changes that 824 01:23:10,698 --> 01:23:14,958 they create as a result is going to be beneficial to us all as human beings, as 825 01:23:14,958 --> 01:23:19,918 Bitcoiners, as people using open source tech. So from on a personal 826 01:23:19,944 --> 01:23:23,784 level. Thank you very much for the work you're doing. And I look forward to continuing this 827 01:23:23,784 --> 01:23:28,864 conversation. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. And it's truly been such an amazing ride. 828 01:23:29,224 --> 01:23:33,704 And it's an honor to get to do this kind of work. Very cool. Well, you heard it here, everybody. 829 01:23:33,844 --> 01:23:39,384 Check out Wei. We will be back. We'll be back next week. I think we have a guest from Cuba 830 01:23:39,384 --> 01:23:43,284 joining us. But let's leave it here for now. Thanks for listening. And we will talk soon, 831 01:23:43,344 --> 01:23:48,364 everybody. Take it easy. Pretty awesome, no? Amiti totally rocks. I absolutely love the work 832 01:23:48,364 --> 01:23:52,924 that she's doing. I'm looking forward to maybe working with her in some capacity or supporting 833 01:23:52,924 --> 01:23:58,664 in whatever ways I can. I think that what she does is so incredibly important. We often maybe 834 01:23:58,664 --> 01:24:03,544 take for granted the fact that all these people are doing this hard work on Bitcoin and other 835 01:24:03,544 --> 01:24:08,824 freedom tech and maybe working themselves to a point of exhaustion, burnout. And we're just using 836 01:24:08,824 --> 01:24:13,024 these tools without necessarily thinking twice about that. So it's good to know that there's 837 01:24:13,024 --> 01:24:17,704 someone like Amiti out there supporting people who are doing this incredibly important work. 838 01:24:18,364 --> 01:24:37,904 Please help people find this episode. You can do so by hitting the like and subscribe button. You could leave a comment. You could leave a review. All of these things would be greatly appreciated. And as always, I'm always looking for really interesting stories, people around the world that are doing really good work to help foster Bitcoin adoption, especially at the grassroots level. 839 01:24:37,904 --> 01:24:42,444 So please feel free to reach out to me at newrentcap at gmail.com. 840 01:24:42,544 --> 01:24:46,964 That's N-E-W-R-E-N-C-A-P at gmail.com. 841 01:24:47,904 --> 01:24:52,004 Beyond sending me some leads, please feel free just to let me know what you think about the show, 842 01:24:52,264 --> 01:24:56,044 to tell me what I could maybe do better, improve upon, what you like, etc. 843 01:24:56,364 --> 01:24:58,464 So with that, let me stop there. 844 01:24:58,684 --> 01:25:01,424 And thank you to everyone for tuning in. 845 01:25:01,484 --> 01:25:02,584 And we will talk next week. 846 01:25:02,664 --> 01:25:03,164 Take it easy. 847 01:25:07,904 --> 01:25:17,044 Thank you.