התמלול המלא של Bitcoin as a Lifeline in Jamaica w/ Dread

Venezuela has actually impacted the relief effort in Jamaica. 55 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,160 But let's start high level. 56 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:10,800 What happened in Jamaica? What role did you end up playing? And how did Flash help out with all this? 57 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:20,280 For those who don't know, the hurricane that hit the Caribbean and Jamaica first was quite literally a Category 6 hurricane. 58 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:27,860 Now, granted, there is no such thing as a Category 6 hurricane, but it was the highest Category 5 hurricane on record in the region and in this century. 59 00:04:28,220 --> 00:04:31,620 And not only did it hit Jamaica, but it did something weird. 60 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,800 It didn't just hit Jamaica from the east, it hit Jamaica from the west, which almost never happens with hurricanes. 61 00:04:36,860 --> 00:04:39,220 It almost did a loop and hit Jamaica from the west. 62 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:44,220 So the west has never really had that kind of strength make landfall. 63 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:47,860 It made a disaster zone of the west of the island. 64 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:56,760 So from that point, we kind of jumped into gear and reached out to the Bitcoin community asking for contributions for the relief effort. 65 00:04:57,340 --> 00:04:59,500 And within days, we got over $10,000. 66 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:05,420 We ended up getting over $15,000 total from 164 different people from the Bitcoin community. 67 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,340 So thank you all. 68 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:17,840 And we were able to immediately put those funds to use, creating care packages, whether it was actual food or medical supplies or underwear, feminine products, whatever the people needed. 69 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:23,040 We were able to create these products for them so they could get food and health and safety immediately. 70 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,420 And how do we do it? 71 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:27,720 Well, there are merchants in Jamaica that use Flash, which we'll talk about. 72 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,940 and they were able to accept Bitcoin and provide food. 73 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,040 This was able to skip the banks because the banks were working. 74 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,180 This was able to skip Western Union because Western Union was closed 75 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:39,680 or completely destroyed, the building was destroyed. 76 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:42,580 But people were still able to get their food through Bitcoin. 77 00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:44,440 So that was an amazing quick win. 78 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,460 And then the long-term win was because we got so much money, 79 00:05:48,220 --> 00:05:51,620 we were able to start purchasing bigger things like solar panels 80 00:05:51,620 --> 00:05:55,340 and solar generators and batteries that we could ship down to Jamaica 81 00:05:55,340 --> 00:06:05,960 So people not only could get that food and supplies, but now in the community centers where they didn't have internet, they didn't have power, they were able to have a generator now and a Starlink. 82 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:17,460 But the issue with that, which we'll get into, is that it took a long time to ship those things to Jamaica because, as you guys know, in the Caribbean, there's a lot of things happening right now that might delay boats. 83 00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:42,520 Let's actually, yeah, let's dive in there. I couldn't believe this when you said it to me. You know, I was facetiously saying like so much has happened since, well, it seriously has happened, but I was facetiously saying like the news cycle has sort of forgotten about what happened in Jamaica. And you actually said that some of what happened in Venezuela, one of the stories that's obviously sort of happened since, ended up having an impact on the ability to get supplies there. So could you get into some of those details? 84 00:06:42,520 --> 00:07:04,820 Yeah. So as you know, with the intervention that happened in Venezuela, the entire Caribbean region had a lot of American military presence in the marine areas. So a lot of warships, a lot of airspace being blocked off. And the usual, you know, traditional logistics that would happen across the region was completely slowed down by these military actions. 85 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:05,880 So what happens? 86 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:11,480 Ships that need to get in with a lot of resources for Jamaican relief efforts got delayed by months. 87 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:16,060 We had, you know, generators that needed to come in and they were supposed to land in January. 88 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:18,100 It's March and they're just getting here. 89 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,560 Mainly because of, like I said, you know, a lot of the delays happening from those military actions. 90 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:29,900 Now, I don't think there's anything that's happened in terms of, you know, things getting canceled or things getting broken or destroyed. 91 00:07:29,900 --> 00:07:34,260 but a lot of people that are waiting for relief now are waiting additional months 92 00:07:34,260 --> 00:07:36,580 because all of these stories are crossing together. 93 00:07:37,180 --> 00:07:44,280 The capture of Maduro and the actual intervention happening in Venezuela 94 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,320 is affecting not just Jamaica, but a lot of other countries in the region 95 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,800 that are trying to get supplies as well. 96 00:07:50,660 --> 00:07:54,280 So we're getting them. They're happening, but they're just happening a lot slower. 97 00:07:54,740 --> 00:07:58,380 Okay. And in terms of that initial few weeks, 98 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:11,720 What was it like just from your shoes? What was it like? What were you hearing from people on the ground? What was the reality post the hurricane? I'm sure people can kind of imagine it, but I'm also sure there are certain things that you had to experience and help

people with that people probably couldn't even imagine. 99 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:22,440 I think the hardest thing for me, it was to see people that usually would be living a middle class to even upper class life in Jamaica, right? 100 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:29,520 They have their two children and their dog and their white picket fence in like a nice area like Mandeville, Jamaica. 101 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,340 And then after the hurricane, those are people that were immediately homeless. 102 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:38,380 and not only homeless, but because Jamaica didn't have the type of resources a first world country 103 00:08:38,380 --> 00:08:43,160 would have, like, you know, the immediate Red Cross or, you know, tents and stuff, the people 104 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:49,120 would be sleeping on the floor waiting for help. So a lot of community members were the ones that 105 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,920 stepped up immediately and took stuff out of their homes to bring to them. And that is what really 106 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,680 touched me. It was like, I saw the people of Jamaica step out and help their neighbor and 107 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:05,900 help their countrymen before the actual government or the actual relief effort organizations, 108 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:09,060 even foreign ones, could get to the country in time to provide that help. 109 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:10,060 So that was touching. 110 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,660 The other part was a little bit darker, which was the desperation of people. 111 00:09:15,660 --> 00:09:18,720 When you are homeless and you have no food and you don't know where it's going to come 112 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,860 from, and the nearest city with resources is miles and miles away, violence tends to 113 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:24,140 occur. 114 00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:28,660 So there was a little bit of violence happening on the road when people would try to bring 115 00:09:28,660 --> 00:09:34,040 relief supplies to the parts that were affected, they would get stopped and robbed along the way. 116 00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:40,100 And, you know, I mean, you might expect some of that to happen, but it was happening at an alarming 117 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:45,100 rate to the point where, you know, the police actually stepped in and started making checkpoints 118 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:50,940 along the way and putting up, you know, military posts to make sure that the community centers that 119 00:09:50,940 --> 00:09:56,220 were providing relief to people were protected. And those kind of things kind of gave you a stark 120 00:09:56,220 --> 00:10:01,640 reality check to say, this is not just a disaster zone. This is also a danger zone now, you know, 121 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,640 because people don't have the protection they're used to, and they're not used to just living on 122 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:17,789 the street So those are the two main things that that kind of shook me you know to make me realize this is real life And it made me take things a lot seriously and try to move as fast as I can because I knew that every day that we had a 123 00:10:17,789 --> 00:10:22,349 delay was another day that someone would be probably going home without food or going home 124 00:10:22,349 --> 00:10:29,709 without clean clothes or going home to an unsafe environment. That's a lot to take on. And for 125 00:10:29,709 --> 00:10:33,649 context here, how big of a team were you working with and how quickly were you able to mobilize 126 00:10:33,649 --> 00:10:39,369 this team? Is it part of your normal team that works on Flash and maybe Flash adoption in Jamaica, 127 00:10:39,369 --> 00:10:41,829 or was it a broader network of people that you tapped into? 128 00:10:43,009 --> 00:10:48,989 Both. So a portion of my team from Flash just immediately jumped into action and we were 129 00:10:48,989 --> 00:10:53,869 helping. But then it was a really beautiful decentralized way that it worked where many 130 00:10:53,869 --> 00:11:01,189 different smaller communities and organizations banded together. So there is DJ Amber, who works 131 00:11:01,189 --> 00:11:07,949 for IREFM. She has her own organization. There was Buds and Brushes. Mel, who runs an entire 132 00:11:07,949 --> 00:11:15,229 organization that already does food for the poor and it does women's shelters that she's 133 00:11:15,229 --> 00:11:20,429 been running for a long time. A lot of these organizations came together to form almost a 134 00:11:20,429 --> 00:11:26,169 convoy that would go with buses and food every week over to the disaster area and help out. 135 00:11:26,589 --> 00:11:31,169 So I was lucky enough not to have to create the whole team myself. I just volunteered me and my 136 00:11:31,169 --> 00:11:35,209 a few people to that larger group. And then that larger group was able to organize it. I mean, 137 00:11:35,209 --> 00:11:40,649 it was a beautiful moment of, you know, organic coming together without needing a top-down, 138 00:11:40,869 --> 00:11:45,369 you know, institution to help it happen. And to this day, it's still happening. Like, I think we 139 00:11:45,369 --> 00:11:50,669 have next weekend, another bus going out there with supplies that, and I think one of our 140 00:11:50,669 --> 00:11:56,769 shipments just cleared. So we'll have new supplies coming from Flash, from the donations that will be 141 00:11:56,769 --> 00:12:03,869 getting there this weekend too. Amazing. In terms of expediency, so banks were impacted by this. So 142 00:12:03,869 --> 00:12:09,249 I think some of it was literally just infrastructure was impacted in a way where not only could 143 00:12:09,249 --> 00:12:13,689 government not react as much, but literally the financial infrastructure that you might normally 144 00:12:13,689 --> 00:12:19,309 use to move funds around and to get aid to people wasn't functioning because of the damage from the 145 00:12:19,309 --> 00:12:25,729 hurricane. So

Bitcoin becomes this thing that you can use through Flash to more quickly, again, 146 00:12:25,729 --> 00:12:29,369 move funds to wherever they need to be to purchase whatever you need to purchase. 147 00:12:29,849 --> 00:12:34,409 And also with Flash, because it also has an on and an off ramp feature there, it has a 148 00:12:34,409 --> 00:12:36,309 connection to the traditional system. 149 00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:40,269 I think that that was part of the equation in terms of because it's not like everyone 150 00:12:40,269 --> 00:12:43,709 overnight is going to become Bitcoiners just because they're in a disaster zone and they're 151 00:12:43,709 --> 00:12:45,249 going to understand how to use it and all that. 152 00:12:45,689 --> 00:12:47,589 So there was a lot that had to happen very quickly. 153 00:12:47,589 --> 00:12:52,609 But luckily, because of the nature of what Bitcoin is and the fact that, you know, its 154 00:12:52,609 --> 00:12:58,049 infrastructure wasn't necessarily drastically impacted by what happened in Jamaica. It was 155 00:12:58,049 --> 00:13:01,729 something that was very usable for people. Can you talk a little bit about some of the particulars 156 00:13:01,729 --> 00:13:06,889 and what it was like to sort of kick flash into action and maybe even get some people using it 157 00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:13,749 that might not be familiar with this technology? Yeah, that happened almost instantly because, 158 00:13:13,969 --> 00:13:18,329 like you said, you know, the banks were just not working. And you'd think, OK, well, 159 00:13:18,669 --> 00:13:22,549 why wouldn't the banks work if, you know, there are probably banks in the safe part of the country 160 00:13:22,549 --> 00:13:27,489 the east side that still had their servers up and running and branches were open. Well, the problem 161 00:13:27,489 --> 00:13:32,589 is that, you know, even though those branches were open, for some reason, the network, the bank 162 00:13:32,589 --> 00:13:37,509 network, the Visa network, the MasterCard rails just wouldn't work. So even if you happen to have 163 00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:42,769 internet access or power in a place that was affected, the Visa card just wouldn't swipe, 164 00:13:42,989 --> 00:13:47,129 right? It wouldn't work at all for the client. So the merchant was either saying, 165 00:13:47,129 --> 00:13:53,889 give me cash, right? Or I can't sell you anything, unfortunately, because they wouldn't do IOUs or 166 00:13:53,889 --> 00:13:58,949 credit. And that's kind of where we went into some merchants and were able to tell them, okay, well, 167 00:13:59,289 --> 00:14:03,729 this is your first time using Flash. So maybe we can sign you up, you know, you can collect it, 168 00:14:03,749 --> 00:14:08,789 we can show you how it works. Some merchants did that. Others didn't. Others had to get the cash 169 00:14:08,789 --> 00:14:14,209 directly. And then we would do peer-to-peer. And Jamaica has a decent Bitcoin community happening 170 00:14:14,209 --> 00:14:15,589 where we were able to do a peer-to-peer 171 00:14:15,589 --> 00:14:18,709 and give the person Bitcoin, get the cash, 172 00:14:18,829 --> 00:14:20,969 give it to the merchant, and get the food immediately. 173 00:14:21,389 --> 00:14:22,469 So both of those worked. 174 00:14:23,169 --> 00:14:24,469 But from the bank side, 175 00:14:24,809 --> 00:14:29,169 we realized that people who were not able 176 00:14:29,169 --> 00:14:31,029 to use their banking services 177 00:14:31,029 --> 00:14:33,169 and didn't have Flash set up yet, 178 00:14:33,629 --> 00:14:35,629 some of them already were accepting Bitcoin. 179 00:14:36,169 --> 00:14:37,189 And we didn't know this. 180 00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:39,469 If you go to btcmap.org, 181 00:14:39,649 --> 00:14:42,389 there's a lot more merchants in Jamaica and in the Caribbean 182 00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:44,589 than even Flash has been setting up. 183 00:14:44,669 --> 00:14:49,109 So we've realized now that we've been building upon this collaborative network, 184 00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:52,509 not competitive network, where even though we build up our own Flash merchants, 185 00:14:52,989 --> 00:14:54,829 there are other merchants out there collecting Bitcoin, 186 00:14:55,069 --> 00:14:56,989 collecting stablecoins, collecting Lightning, 187 00:14:57,469 --> 00:14:58,789 that you can go and pay with Flash. 188 00:14:59,289 --> 00:15:01,529 And that just expanded the network for us quickly, 189 00:15:01,849 --> 00:15:04,749 without us even knowing, because it was a necessity to find out 190 00:15:04,749 --> 00:15:06,769 if they would accept the Bitcoin or not. 191 00:15:06,769 --> 00:15:11,509 So I guess a silver lining in a dark area, in a dark moment. 192 00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:28,329 But from that point, we realized that every merchant that we spoke to, they were open to accepting something different because they realized for themselves that anything can happen to stop them from being able to collect their rent or collect their revenue going forward. 193 00:15:28,449 --> 00:15:34,989 And they wanted to know how they can make a more resilient method of payment that was available to them. 194 00:15:34,989 --> 00:15:40,569 And we've actually now created an initiative to continue creating this resilient flow of payments. 195 00:15:40,569 --> 00:15:57,989 So it's not just about Bitcoin. It's about Bitcoin in a place that can have uncensorable communications, you know, renewable sources of energy, whether it's solar generators, et cetera, mesh networking, where people can have even the basic Internet available to them for, you know, emergency services and payments. 196 00:15:58,169 --> 00:16:00,909 And we're going to keep on building that out in Jamaica as we go forward. 197 00:16:01,589 --> 00:16:08,969 That's amazing. So I just as you said this, I was reminded people were using things like BitChat, right? You spoke about a mesh network. So BitChat. 198 00:16:08,969 --> 00:16:28,929

Yeah, that works over Bluetooth. You don't necessarily need internet connection. So actually, I'm going to ask two questions there at the same time. You talked about these financial networks being impacted, but did the mobile networks and did internet, did these networks, I mean, I'm imagining they had to have been severely impacted as well. So did mesh networks become even more of a thing in that moment? 199 00:16:28,929 --> 00:16:34,509 so i'll send you a picture after the podcast so you can see exactly how bad it was it's a bird's 200 00:16:34,509 --> 00:16:41,429 eye view the place was flattened so what that mean is light poles are gone towers are gone 201 00:16:41,429 --> 00:16:46,489 cell towers are gone if you're not using satellite connection you're not getting internet and you 202 00:16:46,489 --> 00:16:51,209 don't have power you don't have cell phone service so everything was gone like you you're 203 00:16:51,209 --> 00:16:55,889 if you've even even if you had a cell phone with full battery you couldn't connect to any tower so 204 00:16:55,889 --> 00:17:00,829 it wouldn't work for you at all. And BitChat ended up being the number two downloaded app 205 00:17:00,829 --> 00:17:05,509 in the country, in the region, right after the hurricane. And people were using it for a long 206 00:17:05,509 --> 00:17:10,969 time until, you know, power started getting restored and until cell phone service was back up. 207 00:17:10,969 --> 00:17:15,809 I would say that the cell phone companies, Digicel and Flow, within maybe two weeks, 208 00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:20,629 had some emergency towers back up. But during those two weeks, BitChat was the most used app, 209 00:17:20,629 --> 00:17:26,189 for sure. Wow. So the average person, the super, you know, just the average person, 210 00:17:26,469 --> 00:17:31,389 how did this news spread so quickly? I mean, BitChat, it's okay. It's a thing amongst sort 211 00:17:31,389 --> 00:17:35,469 of Bitcoiners and stuff, but how did the average person end up hearing about this? 212 00:17:36,909 --> 00:17:42,849 I have no idea. I'm not going to lie. I have no clue. Like they, somebody downloaded it and 213 00:17:42,849 --> 00:17:46,429 shared with friends. If you went into the, you know, the regional chats where you could see 214 00:17:46,429 --> 00:17:50,769 people talking, they were all just testing it out. And I could see the Jamaican patois like, 215 00:17:50,849 --> 00:17:55,009 does this thing work? Oh, this, you know, and they're just like figuring it out together. 216 00:17:55,309 --> 00:18:02,009 No Bitcoiners were involved that I saw talking. But as soon as it spiked, it went right back down 217 00:18:02,009 --> 00:18:06,749 again. It was a very quick moment of emergency. And then once people used it and got what they 218 00:18:06,749 --> 00:18:12,529 needed, they were back off. So it's a very ephemeral usage of the tool. But I think that's 219 00:18:12,529 --> 00:18:16,109 exactly what it's made for. I think

BitChad is made for those moments when you need it. 220 00:18:16,429 --> 00:18:18,309 And then you go back to normal right afterwards. 221 00:18:19,229 --> 00:18:19,409 Yeah. 222 00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:21,149 It's like emergency tech almost, 223 00:18:21,149 --> 00:18:22,649 like a new sort of tech, 224 00:18:22,889 --> 00:18:26,529 new name for the sort of technology we're building here. 225 00:18:28,269 --> 00:18:29,449 Generally speaking... 226 00:18:29,449 --> 00:18:30,009 Like it, emergency tech. 227 00:18:30,589 --> 00:18:30,949 Yeah. 228 00:18:31,429 --> 00:18:34,609 Generally speaking now, how are things there? 229 00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:36,509 How much has the island recovered? 230 00:18:36,809 --> 00:18:38,289 You were telling me a little bit off camera. 231 00:18:38,849 --> 00:18:41,349 You had a lot of people move from this western part of the island. 232 00:18:41,489 --> 00:18:43,189 They're living in a different part of the island now. 233 00:18:43,409 --> 00:18:45,669 What sorts of shifts or changes does that occur? 234 00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:50,809 long term? What does that look like long term? Just generally speaking, what's the state of 235 00:18:50,809 --> 00:18:57,709 things at this point in time? I would probably refer to it as displacement versus moving because, 236 00:18:57,789 --> 00:19:02,109 you know, they weren't willing to, they didn't want to move. But because of that, there's probably 237 00:19:02,109 --> 00:19:08,249 been a little bit of strain on the city of Kingston and other western, other eastern cities. 238 00:19:08,249 --> 00:19:14,329 But, you know, Jamaicans are very, very friendly, very neighborly people. You know, we are all about 239 00:19:14,329 --> 00:19:20,149 one love and out of many one people is our motto for the country. So when you see somebody in need, 240 00:19:20,509 --> 00:19:23,869 even though we might come off as rough sometimes, when we see somebody in need, 241 00:19:24,089 --> 00:19:29,789 they're always going to get help. So, you know, that happened. And along with, you know, we were 242 00:19:29,789 --> 00:19:34,209 bountiful in terms of fruit and food there. So even though it's rough going, you know, we're a poor 243 00:19:34,209 --> 00:19:38,909 country. I think once people were able to make their way over to the east of the island, it was 244 00:19:38,909 --> 00:19:43,369 a little bit better. I'm not going to sugarcoat it and say it's sunshine and rainbows. You know, 245 00:19:43,369 --> 00:19:47,769 we still have our problems. But, you know, a lot of that migration happened and people were taken 246 00:19:47,769 --> 00:19:53,009 care of. However, not everyone can migrate. So there's still a lot of people in the west of the 247 00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:57,389 island that are still suffering to this day. There's still a lot of aid that is coming down 248 00:19:57,389 --> 00:20:02,369 that hasn't been efficiently deployed. And they're still working on making that happen to this day. 249

00:20:02,669 --> 00:20:06,769 And then there's still a lot of, you know, shipments that are stuck, that are still waiting 250 00:20:06,769 --> 00:20:12,529 to be cleared to this day. So it's still a long process. I think that we're out of the danger zone 251 00:20:12,529 --> 00:20:15,129 in terms of worrying about mass casualties 252 00:20:15,129 --> 00:20:17,709 or anybody really dying from this anymore. 253 00:20:18,209 --> 00:20:28,518 But there a lot of work to do I would assume it would take another two to three years before we look at a full recovery of the island and hopefully an improvement in terms of disaster preparedness 254 00:20:29,698 --> 00:20:34,218 Okay. And also maybe potentially infrastructure as well. But there's something else that kind of 255 00:20:34,218 --> 00:20:38,918 comes to mind as you're saying all this. We spoke a little bit as this was going on. I interviewed 256 00:20:38,918 --> 00:20:45,318 you for a piece I wrote on the work that you were doing. And you also said, Jamaica, this happens 257 00:20:45,318 --> 00:20:49,798 every season, every hurricane season or different, you know, certain points in the year. 258 00:20:50,618 --> 00:20:56,358 Are certain things potentially different now, whether it's maybe some of the infrastructure 259 00:20:56,358 --> 00:21:00,778 that's being built, emergency readiness, whatever that is, even people being able to rely on 260 00:21:00,778 --> 00:21:02,238 something like Bitcoin a little bit more? 261 00:21:02,538 --> 00:21:06,398 What feels like it has sort of changed for the next time something like this happens? 262 00:21:08,518 --> 00:21:13,018 So first, I'll say that Jamaica is usually very lucky during the hurricane season. 263 00:21:13,018 --> 00:21:16,038 You know, the hurricanes come through and they might hit Haiti. 264 00:21:16,518 --> 00:21:17,558 They might hit, you know, Haiti. 265 00:21:17,678 --> 00:21:18,838 They might hit Dominican Republic. 266 00:21:19,198 --> 00:21:20,098 They might hit Cuba. 267 00:21:20,358 --> 00:21:25,198 You know, but 75% of the time, they circle Jamaica and don't really hit us. 268 00:21:25,498 --> 00:21:32,278 So this happening is probably one in three or one in four or five year occurrence. 269 00:21:33,278 --> 00:21:37,818 It might start happening sooner as we know that climate has been changing in general. 270 00:21:37,818 --> 00:21:45,758 but what I've seen that has changed so far is more the technology around the recovery right like we 271 00:21:45,758 --> 00:21:50,778 before you know we didn't have as many emergency beacons set up emergency systems set up 272 00:21:50,778 --> 00:21:58,338 this time around they had almost immediately emergency reporting system like with a map where 273 00:21:58,338 --> 00:22:03,318 you could really just point out where people need help and emergency services would be able to get 274 00:22:03,318 --> 00:22:08,658 there within a reasonable amount of time for Jamaica. So I think I've seen that setup like 275 00:22:08,658 --> 00:22:14,778 spun up on the spot here. And a lot of things like that are giving me hope that by the next 276 00:22:14,778 --> 00:22:21,178 hurricane, we're going to have a lot more quicker response time to areas in the country that were 277 00:22:21,178 --> 00:22:28,138 previously unreachable. So I'm really happy that this has allowed the country to kind of see where 278 00:22:28,138 --> 00:22:34,398 the weak points are and then have quick response teams that are ready to go to those areas during 279 00:22:34,398 --> 00:22:38,438 the next hurricane. That's like the most important thing is saving lives, right? 280 00:22:39,538 --> 00:22:45,678 It seems like a lot was learned from this and a lot of, you know, in terms of preparedness and 281 00:22:45,678 --> 00:22:50,438 responsiveness to this stuff. So I'm happy to hear that at least this seems like a silver lining or 282 00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:55,458 something good to come out of all of it. That's really, really inspiring to hear. In terms of 283 00:22:55,458 --> 00:23:01,278 people using flash i want to start with a little bit of an overview of it super cool wallet uh fork 284 00:23:01,278 --> 00:23:06,278 of i think is bitcoin beach wallet which is now blink um but has all these other features like 285 00:23:06,278 --> 00:23:10,758 the on and the off ramp to the traditional structure i think you ended up employing the 286 00:23:10,758 --> 00:23:16,138 the breeze sdk i think it also has something like something similar to stable stats so i was hoping 287 00:23:16,138 --> 00:23:21,138 that you could talk a little bit about the wallet and then how people were ended up using it or i 288 00:23:21,138 --> 00:23:25,258 mean were they did they quickly learn how to use lightning was it relatively easy for them were they 289 00:23:25,258 --> 00:23:31,578 using the base chain? Essentially, when people picked it up and had to learn it within minutes, 290 00:23:32,118 --> 00:23:39,038 what was their go-to? Yeah, great questions. And I'll start off by kind of narrowing it down to 291 00:23:39,038 --> 00:23:44,278 just the very, very basic part of the wallet, which is when you just download it for the first time, 292 00:23:44,278 --> 00:23:51,178 all you see is a USD or JMD balance. That's it. You don't really know anything about stablecoins 293 00:23:51,178 --> 00:23:56,478 it or lightning network or bitcoin or anything like that it's just flash and you can use it to 294 00:23:56,478 --> 00:24:01,518 pay for stuff and that's how we present it to people in jamaica because people in jamaica don't 295 00:24:01,518 --> 00:24:08,258 have paypal or cash app or venmo or zelle they know about these things from the u.s but the average 296 00:24:08,258 --> 00:24:12,978 jamaican that doesn't have access to the u.s doesn't have any fintech app on their phone 297 00:24:12,978 --> 00:24:20,478 per se they might have a beta version or an entire not beta a new version of link which is kind of the

298 00:24:20,478 --> 00:24:25,458 the CBDC type wallet that Jamaica has has implemented. 299 00:24:25,618 --> 00:24:27,278 And that's a whole different conversation we can get into. 300 00:24:27,698 --> 00:24:29,478 But most people don't have it. 301 00:24:29,498 --> 00:24:30,658 It was only 2% adoption. 302 00:24:30,858 --> 00:24:33,578 So most people don't have a FinTech app on their phone. 303 00:24:33,938 --> 00:24:36,958 So a flash is usually the first touch for a FinTech app. 304 00:24:36,978 --> 00:24:38,238 And we made it as simple as possible. 305 00:24:38,498 --> 00:24:41,198 You press start, you see the USD wallet, 306 00:24:41,478 --> 00:24:44,338 or if you switched currencies, it's the JMD wallet. 307 00:24:44,558 --> 00:24:47,538 And then you can just go to a store and spend, 308 00:24:47,538 --> 00:24:49,458 or you can top it up from your bank account. 309 00:24:49,738 --> 00:24:50,298 And that's it. 310 00:24:50,478 --> 00:24:52,358 Like very, very MVP version. 311 00:24:52,718 --> 00:24:56,418 Now, to your point, there's a lot of things in the settings, right? 312 00:24:57,138 --> 00:25:01,878 So if the, you know, the techie ones or the really Bitcoiners that are hiding in Jamaica 313 00:25:01,878 --> 00:25:05,778 and don't want to, you know, come on podcasts like me, they would open up the wallet and 314 00:25:05,778 --> 00:25:07,178 they would see, oh, advanced mode. 315 00:25:07,178 --> 00:25:12,698 And then you can turn on the Bitcoin side of the wallet, which to your point, we integrated 316 00:25:12,698 --> 00:25:15,078 Breeze SDK to do that. 317 00:25:15,218 --> 00:25:19,898 So it provides you with a non-custodial wallet that you get your 12 words for your seed phrase. 318 00:25:19,898 --> 00:25:25,098 you write it down and you can switch between each wallet, your USD wallet and your Bitcoin wallet 319 00:25:25,098 --> 00:25:28,618 back and forth, depending on where you want to hold your funds. I consider it to be like a 320 00:25:28,618 --> 00:25:32,998 checkings and a savings account. And then you can, you know, off ramp into your hardware wallet if 321 00:25:32,998 --> 00:25:38,458 you want to, because it does on-chain as well. And then the exciting part for me is that because 322 00:25:38,458 --> 00:25:44,858 we're a community type of culture, you know, people always want to chat and commerce and do 323 00:25:44,858 --> 00:25:51,618 all their little peer-to-peer, you know, fun, trading, etc. And we created Noster as a button 324 00:25:51,618 --> 00:25:55,458 in the, as a tab in the wallet that allows people to chat with their fellow merchants, 325 00:25:55,998 --> 00:26:02,018 chat with each other, send zaps, just like you do on Noster. And also we'll be integrating the 326 00:26:02,018 --> 00:26:08,638 P2P trade version of Noster. So it's like a NIP, NIP 69, where you can just post stuff. And it 327 00:26:08,638 --> 00:26:12,138 doesn't have to be you're posting Bitcoin. I know Bitcoin does have to post Bitcoin, but I

could post 328 00:26:12,138 --> 00:26:18,458 a table for sale. I could post my monitor or my Xbox. And that P2P trade thing will be inside the 329 00:26:18,458 --> 00:26:22,898 app where you can zap people to get what they want from them and then collect however you want. So 330 00:26:22,898 --> 00:26:27,818 we're very excited about the social aspect of it, the simplicity of it. And then it still gives them 331 00:26:27,818 --> 00:26:34,058 the sovereignty of having a non-custodial wallet in there too. It's amazing. And how dare you bring 332 00:26:34,058 --> 00:26:38,538 non-Bitcoin propagandists to Nostra? How dare you bring normal people that can use this for 333 00:26:38,538 --> 00:26:47,238 normal things. It's so crazy of you. I want to dive into a little bit of your making the app 334 00:26:47,238 --> 00:26:52,018 because I think it's a really cool story and I don't do too much Bitcoin story stuff here, 335 00:26:52,018 --> 00:26:58,898 but I think this is really important because of your intention in making it. I think your 336 00:26:58,898 --> 00:27:04,438 educational background is great for people to understand as well, but there was just really 337 00:27:04,438 --> 00:27:09,278 this earnest motivation for you to create something that would really be this amazing 338 00:27:09,278 --> 00:27:14,918 financial services slash money app for people in Jamaica, especially given that complete void that 339 00:27:14,918 --> 00:27:20,638 existed before you brought Flash to people. So if you want to go as far back as you're comfortable, 340 00:27:20,638 --> 00:27:24,798 but maybe just a little bit of background on how and why you created Flash. 341 00:27:24,798 --> 00:27:36,818 yeah sure so um i saw a podcast actually um about el salvador and when i first saw it i realized okay 342 00:27:36,818 --> 00:27:39,998 el salvador has been something really cool with bitcoin i was already buying bitcoin and i was 343 00:27:39,998 --> 00:27:45,878 you know following the the technological side of it really as a coder as a developer but then i saw 344 00:27:45,878 --> 00:27:51,598 that a country in my region el salvador was using bitcoin in this small little beach town and i 345 00:27:51,598 --> 00:27:55,878 wanted to see what it was all about and how it was working for them because I saw people that I 346 00:27:55,878 --> 00:28:03,458 could relate to using it, not, you know, a techie or an investor. So I contacted Mike Peterson, 347 00:28:03,458 --> 00:28:07,998 who I saw on the podcast, and I just DMed him on Twitter and said, hey, can I come down and check 348 00:28:07,998 --> 00:28:11,478 it out? And Mike was like, sure, come down whenever. I'm like, all right, I'm coming Thursday. 349 00:28:12,578 --> 00:28:19,578 He said, wait, this Thursday? So I showed up, found the, you know, the most recognizable hotel 350 00:28:19,578 --> 00:28:21,698 I could find because I didn't know anything about El Salvador. 351 00:28:21,998 --> 00:28:27,698 And from your history, reading about El Salvador, you'd know it traditionally was a very dangerous 352 00:28:27,698 --> 00:28:28,598 place to go to. 353 00:28:29,018 --> 00:28:34,618 So I tried to find a safe hotel, checked in, and randomly as I walked into the hotel, there 354 00:28:34,618 --> 00:28:38,878 was a huge table with this massive fish in the middle of the table. 355 00:28:39,458 --> 00:28:42,818 And around the table was sitting where people I recognized from Twitter. 356 00:28:42,818 --> 00:28:50,138 It was like, you know, Jack Mahlers, Peter McCormick, Miles Suter, a couple, you know, reporters. 357 00:28:50,538 --> 00:28:51,658 Mike Peterson was there. 358 00:28:52,058 --> 00:28:55,338 Jorge and Ramon, if you know about the Bitcoin speech story. 359 00:28:55,558 --> 00:29:01,938 And a couple other people just there kind of, you know, almost brainstorming on El Salvador and what was going on there. 360 00:29:01,978 --> 00:29:08,978 And I just walked up to them and did a bold move that changed the trajectory of the rest of my life saying, hey, guys, I'm Dred from Jamaica. 361 00:29:09,018 --> 00:29:10,338 I'm a Bitcoiner. Can I join you? 362 00:29:10,358 --> 00:29:11,098 And they said yes. 363 00:29:11,098 --> 00:29:17,138 so from that point forward i learned a lot about what was going on in el salvador almost directly 364 00:29:17,138 --> 00:29:22,858 you know and then was able to volunteer immediately to help them build it out so i stayed there for 365 00:29:22,858 --> 00:29:28,218 another couple weeks i helped to onboard people that were just learning about bitcoin you know 366 00:29:28,218 --> 00:29:32,678 half spanish half english my spanish is terrible but i was able to like you know show them how to 367 00:29:32,678 --> 00:29:38,158 move money on the blink wallet i learned a lot just how to adopt and how to you know create a 368 00:29:38,158 --> 00:29:42,958 circular economy from these guys. And then I took all that knowledge and went back to Jamaica and 369 00:29:42,958 --> 00:29:47,078 started building. At first, I thought I would be building just a circular economy, right? I would 370 00:29:47,078 --> 00:29:52,178 go do the same thing, onboard merchants. But then that didn't happen because we don't have Blink 371 00:29:52,178 --> 00:29:59,618 in Jamaica. We don't have an ATM that you can use to move from cash to Bitcoin. So the rails just 372 00:29:59,618 --> 00:30:03,698 weren't there in Jamaica that we had in El Salvador. And I'd go back to El Salvador every 373 00:30:03,698 --> 00:30:07,738 couple, every couple of weeks, no, not months, every couple of years, every year, I go back to 374 00:30:07,738 --> 00:30:11,978 El Salvador. Every year, I'm back to El Salvador and checked it out and saw how they were progressing. 375 00:30:12,378 --> 00:30:16,738 This is right around the time, you know, Bukele started picking up steam and they created the 376 00:30:16,738 --> 00:30:24,878 Chivo wallet and they had the Bitcoin law, you know, all

that happened while I was trying to 377 00:30:24,878 --> 00:30:28,898 make this happen in Jamaica. And I turned around and I said, okay, I realize what the gap is. 378 00:30:29,198 --> 00:30:43,467 It that we don have a Blink or a Bitcoin Beach wallet in Jamaica so I going to build Flash And then as I built Flash I realized that okay not only is this just going to help me with a circular economy this is in general a new way 379 00:30:43,467 --> 00:30:48,287 for us to bring money into the country, bring it out of the country, and also use it digitally 380 00:30:48,287 --> 00:30:53,247 between the entire country, not just in a small beach town. And that's when I realized, okay, 381 00:30:53,247 --> 00:31:00,407 this is the real value that Bitcoin brings. It brings 21st century finance to everywhere in the 382 00:31:00,407 --> 00:31:04,767 world that traditional banks can't reach and everybody in the world that can't access a 383 00:31:04,767 --> 00:31:10,847 traditional bank via their traditional means. So I'm really happy to be continuing that mission. 384 00:31:11,527 --> 00:31:15,907 And I hope I'm, you know, making the El Zante guys proud that I'm standing on their shoulders 385 00:31:15,907 --> 00:31:20,927 because those guys are giants. I have no doubt that you're making them proud. No question about 386 00:31:20,927 --> 00:31:25,087 that. One thing I wanted to touch on though, we talked a little bit about this last time we spoke 387 00:31:25,087 --> 00:31:29,907 was the amount of people that just in Jamaica who have a bank account or who don't have a bank 388 00:31:29,907 --> 00:31:33,787 account. So having a bank account is kind of difficult for, I think, a few reasons, as you've 389 00:31:33,787 --> 00:31:38,107 mentioned. But if you wanted to maybe touch on that to help contextualize why something like 390 00:31:38,107 --> 00:31:44,147 Flesh is so important. Yeah. So a lot of people will look at the statistics and say that, 391 00:31:44,147 --> 00:31:49,387 oh, well, 75 to 80 percent of people in Jamaica have bank accounts. The number might be somewhere 392 00:31:49,387 --> 00:31:56,007 around 77. But if you look at how many of those people are economically using those bank accounts, 393 00:31:56,007 --> 00:32:02,547 the number drops to almost 40%, 30-something percent are people that are actually using their 394 00:32:02,547 --> 00:32:08,207 bank accounts. Why? Because compared to the salary and the expenses and things you buy in Jamaica, 395 00:32:08,327 --> 00:32:15,227 the fees to use a bank account can be prohibitive for many people, right? If you're getting a certain 396 00:32:15,227 --> 00:32:20,247 pay and you deposit it, and by the time you deposit it and take it out to buy food, you've 397 00:32:20,247 --> 00:32:25,247 lost 10% to 15% of your monthly wages, you're probably not going to put it in the bank, right? 398 00:32:25,247 --> 00:32:33,427 Or if it goes to the bank via pay, you're probably going to pull it all out and keep

it so you don't have to pay a transaction fee every time you want to spend your money. 399 00:32:33,727 --> 00:32:38,147 So it's that small level of margin that caused people not to want to use banks. 400 00:32:38,407 --> 00:32:40,347 And I think there's a space there. 401 00:32:40,407 --> 00:32:46,387 I know there's a space there for digital currency in general, because now with Flash, you can do Flash to Flash for free. 402 00:32:46,387 --> 00:33:07,007 So people can do transactions without having to stash the money under their bed, right? Or keep it safe from criminals that know they just pulled out their entire monthly check at the ATM. So we're solving two problems. It's one, giving them digital access and two, keeping them safe if they really want to have their money, you know, to spend without people knowing. 403 00:33:07,007 --> 00:33:21,947 And I think there's also another misnomer, which is that, you know, because Jamaica is a cash rich country or not cash rich, a cash first country, you know, that cash is king, that we don't have the technology there. 404 00:33:22,287 --> 00:33:27,907 And that's why. And that's not true. Jamaica has a technology. Like, you know, we're a very technology first country. 405 00:33:27,907 --> 00:33:32,747 were actually very progressive in terms of the Caribbean islands and the tenology that we have. 406 00:33:33,027 --> 00:33:37,627 We were one of the first countries in the region to launch and roll out a CBDC, 407 00:33:37,867 --> 00:33:40,807 which is a central bank digital currency that people could use. 408 00:33:40,927 --> 00:33:42,347 Banks could use it and people could use it. 409 00:33:42,347 --> 00:33:50,207 So I know that the people have the capability and the capacity and the incentive to use tenology. 410 00:33:50,527 --> 00:33:54,747 I think we just haven't had the right tenology in their hands yet for them to use it properly. 411 00:33:54,747 --> 00:34:08,547 Amazing. And you've given them that. And speaking of that technology, one of the things that I really love about it is that on a certain level with the Bitcoin Beach store, you kind of, I don't know, soft forked the idea of the circular economy and brought it to Jamaica. 412 00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:16,647 But on the other side of things, you actually did fork the Bitcoin Beach wallet, now the Blink wallet, as the foundation layer. 413 00:34:16,787 --> 00:34:18,547 I think that's a fair way to put it of Flash. 414 00:34:19,307 --> 00:34:25,407 So I think that this stuff is really interesting for people to note because it's not like Bitcoin development happens in a vacuum. 415 00:34:25,647 --> 00:34:28,287 It's obviously the nature of open source tech that it doesn't. 416 00:34:28,367 --> 00:34:31,047 We can all see what everybody else is building because it's open source. 417 00:34:31,587 --> 00:34:35,267 But I think it's really important to highlight this point of you went to El Salvador. 418 00:34:35,487 --> 00:34:36,947 You saw how people were using this wallet. 419 00:34:36,947 --> 00:34:39,567 I don't want to put words in your mouth 420 00:34:39,567 --> 00:34:40,967 But I'm assuming maybe you thought 421 00:34:40,967 --> 00:34:43,207 Oh, this seems like a really good onboarding mechanism 422 00:34:43,207 --> 00:34:44,787 This is a good place for people to start 423 00:34:44,787 --> 00:34:47,267 I've used Blink, I think it's a great wallet 424 00:34:47,267 --> 00:34:48,907 I know people are critical sometimes 425 00:34:48,907 --> 00:34:51,487 You know, it's custodial or whatever like that 426 00:34:51,487 --> 00:34:53,207 You've made some changes 427 00:34:53,207 --> 00:34:54,747 People can use the Blink SDK 428 00:34:54,747 --> 00:34:56,847 Can you talk a little bit about that though? 429 00:34:56,927 --> 00:34:59,247 Having that Gallois stack, the Blink stack 430 00:34:59,247 --> 00:35:01,247 To start building with, or the Bitcoin Beach 431 00:35:01,247 --> 00:35:03,827 The wallet to fork and start building with 432 00:35:03,827 --> 00:35:07,827 Did it give you some confidence? 433 00:35:08,227 --> 00:35:11,567 Did it take some of the cognitive burden of creating the app off of you? 434 00:35:11,847 --> 00:35:13,087 What was that process like? 435 00:35:14,927 --> 00:35:19,387 Yeah, without that kind of foundation to start with, 436 00:35:19,467 --> 00:35:22,387 I probably would have spent another two years building it from scratch. 437 00:35:22,567 --> 00:35:24,367 It was a big accelerator. 438 00:35:25,047 --> 00:35:28,027 Not only did they already find out what worked in the market, 439 00:35:28,147 --> 00:35:31,487 like in the wild, and they were able to get that real feedback, 440 00:35:31,487 --> 00:35:38,247 but also the open source nature of it allowed a lot of other Bitcoiners from around the world to contribute to the code, 441 00:35:38,647 --> 00:35:41,047 you know, and provide reviews, provide improvements. 442 00:35:41,447 --> 00:35:43,627 So it wasn't, you know, it was twofold. 443 00:35:43,747 --> 00:35:49,207 It was the on-the-ground experience that gave real-time feedback to create UX and UI improvements, 444 00:35:49,207 --> 00:35:54,487 and then the Bitcoin community and the open source community providing security updates and audits 445 00:35:54,487 --> 00:35:57,787 and improvements to the code to provide, like, world-class code, 446 00:35:57,787 --> 00:36:00,827 even though it was kind of all over the place 447 00:36:00,827 --> 00:36:02,367 because it was many people contributing, 448 00:36:02,547 --> 00:36:03,767 but that's the way open source works. 449 00:36:03,907 --> 00:36:06,587 If you look at Linux or any other open source project, 450 00:36:06,947 --> 00:36:08,607 it starts off all over the place 451 00:36:08,607 --> 00:36:10,407 and then it creates this coalescence 452 00:36:10,407 --> 00:36:13,587 of a really strong product that everybody wants to use. 453 00:36:14,067 --> 00:36:15,467 And that's what happened with the Blink wallet. 454

00:36:15,907 --> 00:36:18,887 I think that it's gone productized now, as you know. 455 00:36:19,007 --> 00:36:21,887 Blink has its own thing apart from Galoi, 456 00:36:21,967 --> 00:36:23,047 which is still open source. 457 00:36:23,567 --> 00:36:24,567 Blink is still open source too, 458 00:36:24,647 --> 00:36:25,887 but Galoi was the foundation. 459 00:36:25,887 --> 00:36:29,887 and we have also forked so far away from them. 460 00:36:30,147 --> 00:36:33,247 As you know, we've kind of put a scalpel to it. 461 00:36:33,507 --> 00:36:34,527 It made a lot of improvements. 462 00:36:34,827 --> 00:36:36,387 And the most important thing we did 463 00:36:36,387 --> 00:36:38,547 is we made UX improvements 464 00:36:38,547 --> 00:36:42,087 that were much more focused on the Caribbean communities 465 00:36:42,087 --> 00:36:44,867 and both English-speaking and Spanish-speaking 466 00:36:44,867 --> 00:36:46,427 and Dutch-speaking Caribbean communities 467 00:36:46,427 --> 00:36:47,627 that have their own culture, 468 00:36:48,007 --> 00:36:49,287 their own flair for things, 469 00:36:49,487 --> 00:36:51,607 their own words that they kind of recognize 470 00:36:51,607 --> 00:36:53,027 and ways that things work. 471 00:36:53,327 --> 00:36:54,607 We really focused on that 472 00:36:54,607 --> 00:36:57,727 to make sure that people felt like this was a product they could be proud of. 473 00:36:58,087 --> 00:37:01,047 You know, it wasn't just a random product that was coming from another country. 474 00:37:01,387 --> 00:37:05,167 And then on top of that, we were able to use our relationships in Jamaica 475 00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:07,687 to make sure that people can on-ramp and off-ramp, 476 00:37:07,967 --> 00:37:10,607 either at agents or through their banking system. 477 00:37:11,147 --> 00:37:13,027 And Blink couldn't provide that directly. 478 00:37:13,547 --> 00:37:16,327 Maybe we could have still gone through them and had partnerships with them, 479 00:37:16,327 --> 00:37:20,667 but that kind of ownership and that cultural ownership was very important 480 00:37:20,667 --> 00:37:22,687 because people are skeptical. 481 00:37:22,687 --> 00:37:28,707 You know, people are very skeptical of the digital currency and cryptocurrency industry in general. 482 00:37:29,007 --> 00:37:34,247 So if it wasn't coming from someone that they could point to and say, you built this, then adoption would have been much harder. 483 00:37:34,607 --> 00:37:37,007 So it was very helpful to have the blink as a start. 484 00:37:37,187 --> 00:37:44,247 And then putting the Caribbean Jamaican face on it was really the accelerator that made it, you know, made it all work together. 485 00:37:44,247 --> 00:37:54,387 The security in the beginning, the time-tested proof in El Salvador, and then the one love Jamaican face on top to make it work. 486 00:37:55,647 --> 00:37:56,847 I love this. 487 00:37:57,027 --> 00:37:59,067 And it's something that's coming to mind as you're saying it. 488 00:37:59,087 --> 00:38:03,567 One of the things, I used to be a writing professor and I would tell my students more details, more details. 489 00:38:03,667 --> 00:38:06,267 I want to know exactly what you're talking about here. 490 00:38:06,427 --> 00:38:10,527 So one of the things I want to know, how did you Jamaicify the app? 491 00:38:10,527 --> 00:38:14,027 What are some things that are sort of a signal to the people that are using it? 492 00:38:14,067 --> 00:38:15,247 This was made by a Jamaican. 493 00:38:17,027 --> 00:38:22,987 So if you go on the website, getflash.io, getflash.io, you'll realize it immediately has all the Jamaican colors. 494 00:38:23,567 --> 00:38:26,607 The background is a skyline of Kingston. 495 00:38:27,127 --> 00:38:30,347 So people recognize our downtown pier and, you know, the buildings there. 496 00:38:30,487 --> 00:38:38,007 But then when you go into the app, like you download it and you onboard to the app, the first thing the app asks you when you press start is, what's your name? 497 00:38:38,007 --> 00:38:51,587 And in front of that is our national bird. It's a doctor bird, we call it, which is a type of hummingbird that Jamaicans know very well. But it's like almost metallic, futuristic, cyperpunk type of hummingbird. And that is our mascot. 498 00:38:51,587 --> 00:38:57,447 So from the beginning, you're just getting inundated with just Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica and the Caribbean at large. 499 00:38:57,827 --> 00:39:09,307 And then from there, everywhere you look in the app, we try to put a little, you know, style, whether it's maybe a different word you use for an action that might be patois or a different color or a different form. 500 00:39:09,647 --> 00:39:11,567 And, you know, it's just really, really cool that way. 501 00:39:11,627 --> 00:39:16,707 And we also have all of the currencies of the Caribbean and languages of the Caribbean as well. 502 00:39:16,747 --> 00:39:20,227 So you can change your language, you can change your currency to match your culture. 503 00:39:21,207 --> 00:39:21,527 Amazing. 504 00:39:21,887 --> 00:39:27,107 Speaking of currencies, one of the things too, how much are people using Jamaican dollars 505 00:39:27,107 --> 00:39:30,327 versus US dollars and then now potentially even Bitcoin? 506 00:39:30,607 --> 00:39:33,667 Are they currently thinking about Bitcoin as more of a savings asset? 507 00:39:33,887 --> 00:39:35,067 Are they using it as money? 508 00:39:35,227 --> 00:39:37,107 Are they using US dollars within the app? 509 00:39:37,107 --> 00:39:41,347 What tends to be their go-to as far as like day-to-day spending money when using the app? 510 00:39:42,627 --> 00:39:44,387 It shifted over time, actually. 511 00:39:44,387 --> 00:39:51,567 I would say last year when we were in our pilot phase, it was almost exclusively U.S. or Jamaican dollars. 512 00:39:51,767 --> 00:39:53,527 And I want to make a point of clarification. 513 00:39:53,947 --> 00:40:00,647 We are just like

the Blink app where the base currency on the dollar side, on the stable coin side, is U.S. dollars. 514 00:40:01,227 --> 00:40:03,567 But you can show your display currency differently. 515 00:40:04,027 --> 00:40:07,527 So even though you're holding U.S. dollars, it'll show you the Jamaican equivalent. 516 00:40:07,527 --> 00:40:12,887 right but then if the if the exchange rate changes you might see a up or down shift in by pennies 517 00:40:12,887 --> 00:40:17,827 of the of the forex between u.s and jamaican dollars so that's a point of clarification 518 00:40:17,827 --> 00:40:23,727 the majority of people last year were using the just the usd side they just wanted to hold 519 00:40:23,727 --> 00:40:27,647 dollars in their hand it was cool that it came through bitcoin or lightning but they were like 520 00:40:27,647 --> 00:40:32,707 yeah let me just hold the dollars and see what's what it's like as of december january february 521 00:40:32,707 --> 00:40:38,587 that started to shift. People have gotten a drastic increase in curiosity, I would say, 522 00:40:38,907 --> 00:40:42,807 in the Bitcoin and stablecoin space, and they want to see how it works. 523 00:40:42,907 --> 00:40:48,147 So a lot of people are now opening up the wallet, turning on the Bitcoin side, and all 524 00:40:48,196 --> 00:40:53,296 purchasing, topping up Bitcoin, whether it's from their own exchange that they know of, 525 00:40:53,656 --> 00:41:00,876 or they can top up straight from the Flash wallet and then move money back and forth between their 526 00:41:00,876 --> 00:41:04,596 savings and their checking. And that's happening a lot more now, we've realized. 527 00:41:05,636 --> 00:41:12,236 Breeze has been a great partner, I have to say. As we grow with them, the non-custodial wallet 528 00:41:12,236 --> 00:41:16,656 SDK just gets faster and cheaper and easier to use. 529 00:41:16,876 --> 00:41:19,836 And I'm really happy that we're able to build with them 530 00:41:19,836 --> 00:41:21,056 and see what else they come up with 531 00:41:21,056 --> 00:41:24,696 because as they create more functionality in their app, 532 00:41:25,176 --> 00:41:27,556 our app Flash immediately gets that functionality 533 00:41:27,556 --> 00:41:28,636 that people can use. 534 00:41:29,216 --> 00:41:33,276 And we hope that that kind of growth will continue 535 00:41:33,276 --> 00:41:36,256 and that Jamaicans will eventually have the same parity 536 00:41:36,256 --> 00:41:39,036 of usability in all the apps that they use 537 00:41:39,036 --> 00:41:42,356 because Breeze is like an SDK for all apps, right? 538 00:41:42,356 --> 00:41:43,156 Not just for Flash. 539 00:41:43,716 --> 00:41:43,876 Yep. 540 00:41:44,236 --> 00:41:46,756 Yeah, the Breeze team, they just do not stop. 541 00:41:46,836 --> 00:41:48,036 And it's not even a huge team. 542 00:41:48,116 --> 00:41:51,536 They just continue to ship and to improve and to iterate it. 543 00:41:51,596 --> 00:41:54,296 They're truly an amazing group

of people. 544 00:41:54,476 --> 00:41:56,156 Danny and Umi are here in New York, 545 00:41:56,156 --> 00:41:57,456 and I see Roy quite frequently. 546 00:41:57,456 --> 00:41:58,676 So shout out to that team, 547 00:41:58,736 --> 00:41:59,996 and I love that you're working with them. 548 00:42:00,896 --> 00:42:01,096 Yeah. 549 00:42:01,656 --> 00:42:03,176 You mentioned this a little bit earlier 550 00:42:03,176 --> 00:42:05,416 about the messiness of open source development, 551 00:42:05,416 --> 00:42:24,476 And then and then and then, you know, this compliment you just paid to the breeze team. But this idea of working all together with people, sometimes there's pros and cons to that. You're classically trained. You went to school, I think, for computer engineering or computer science, whichever. Yeah. 552 00:42:24,476 --> 00:42:32,896 So you have this formal college education in doing things a certain way. 553 00:42:33,016 --> 00:42:37,636 You have a background, I think, working within more traditional structures, more traditional companies. 554 00:42:38,056 --> 00:42:42,776 I'm kind of curious as to, I guess, emotionally what it's like to go through. 555 00:42:42,836 --> 00:42:48,376 I mean, technically as well, to go through building an open source app, working within this open source culture. 556 00:42:48,376 --> 00:42:55,856 Are there moments where it's frustrating, where you just wish it could be a little bit more streamlined, that you're making the final decision and you're just pushing forward with it? 557 00:42:55,856 --> 00:43:05,216 Or has it been far more, I don't want to be too dramatic, but has there been more pros than cons in this process of having to work with other people in open source culture? 558 00:43:07,456 --> 00:43:09,256 Yeah, I would say it's been a journey overall. 559 00:43:09,256 --> 00:43:14,136 to your point I've been a classically trained engineer and went to becoming a process engineer 560 00:43:14,136 --> 00:43:19,856 and a management consultant and worked you know in much more structured formats right you start a 561 00:43:19,856 --> 00:43:24,256 project and you kind of have all your resources and your docs lined up the open source community 562 00:43:24,256 --> 00:43:29,656 is very different I didn't come into it actually trying to work in the beginning I came into it as 563 00:43:29,656 --> 00:43:34,696 you know a student learning everything about FOSS and not just that everything about Bitcoin at the 564 00:43:34,696 --> 00:43:41,956 same time. So I would say I ended up with a three to four year degree in just learning about how 565 00:43:41,956 --> 00:43:47,376 open source coding happens and how it's different. And then from that point forward, I was able to 566 00:43:47,376 --> 00:43:51,456 start building smaller projects on my own, you know, like contributing to projects that were 567 00:43:51,456 --> 00:43:57,816 already on the way. I did a long stint with, if you know the guys from Start9, Start9 Labs,

568 00:43:58,456 --> 00:44:03,656 and they create, if you guys don't know them, they create sovereign computing, which is basically 569 00:44:03,656 --> 00:44:07,896 your own server that you can run in your own home and you can run your own node on it and you can 570 00:44:07,896 --> 00:44:12,156 also run anything else you want on it instead of the cloud. So you can check it out start9.com and 571 00:44:12,156 --> 00:44:17,076 I started working with them for a while and got my chops under me for open source coding you know 572 00:44:17,076 --> 00:44:22,336 like figuring out how to contribute things figuring out ethics behind open source contributions 573 00:44:22,336 --> 00:44:28,996 and licensing and that really got me interested in the whole world of it because I had not done 574 00:44:28,996 --> 00:44:33,996 that before in corporate America. In corporate America, it was about IP and it's about speed to 575 00:44:33,996 --> 00:44:40,716 market and protecting your capital, your code. And it was just a completely different world. 576 00:44:41,336 --> 00:44:47,736 So that took a little bit to adapt to. But once I did, there's no going back. You realize that 577 00:44:47,736 --> 00:44:52,636 everything you write at this point, everything you produce as a coder, this is kind of what 578 00:44:52,636 --> 00:44:57,416 the cypherpunks were saying when cypherpunks write code, is that what you're writing is going to 579 00:44:57,416 --> 00:45:02,856 benefit the world in some way once it's productive. You're not just benefiting your pockets or one 580 00:45:02,856 --> 00:45:07,476 segment. You're opening it up to the world and whoever wants to use it can use it. And there's 581 00:45:07,476 --> 00:45:13,396 kind of a sense of, I don't know, zen there, you know, writing like that. I think a lot of coders 582 00:45:13,396 --> 00:45:20,236 and programmers and engineers in general that do open source products are operating at a higher 583 00:45:20,236 --> 00:45:24,416 vibration, is the best way I would put it. You know, they're operating at a higher vibration, 584 00:45:24,416 --> 00:45:25,636 and they're doing it for a good cause. 585 00:45:26,076 --> 00:45:28,556 And therefore, a lot of the greed that you might see 586 00:45:28,556 --> 00:45:30,256 just doesn't exist as much. 587 00:45:30,316 --> 00:45:31,676 There's still some, of course, we're human, 588 00:45:31,996 --> 00:45:34,996 but there's a lot lower proportion of it. 589 00:45:35,116 --> 00:45:38,296 And I think I like living in that space. 590 00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:39,576 I like working in that space. 591 00:45:40,116 --> 00:45:42,436 And that's the reason why everything we do at Flash 592 00:45:42,436 --> 00:45:43,296 is open source. 593 00:45:43,756 --> 00:45:46,336 Of course, we can't open source the PII 594 00:45:46,336 --> 00:45:47,516 and the bank account numbers 595 00:45:47,516 --> 00:45:48,856 and the way we do our trades, 596 00:45:49,036 --> 00:45:51,436 but we open source everything

in terms of code 597 00:45:51,436 --> 00:45:52,656 and everything that we build, 598 00:45:52,656 --> 00:45:54,356 we hope that other people use it. 599 00:45:54,416 --> 00:45:56,936 to either create products like ours, 600 00:45:57,076 --> 00:45:58,516 products comparative to ours, 601 00:45:58,696 --> 00:45:59,656 complementary to ours, 602 00:45:59,696 --> 00:46:00,816 or collaborative to ours. 603 00:46:02,236 --> 00:46:02,716 Amazing. 604 00:46:03,596 --> 00:46:05,896 I do agree that people are operating 605 00:46:05,896 --> 00:46:07,036 at a different vibration. 606 00:46:07,236 --> 00:46:08,336 And I mentioned earlier 607 00:46:08,336 --> 00:46:09,856 just how kind of a soul you are, 608 00:46:09,876 --> 00:46:11,256 and I can't highlight that point enough. 609 00:46:11,316 --> 00:46:13,536 So if you ever get a chance to meet Dredd here, 610 00:46:13,656 --> 00:46:15,256 please introduce yourself to him 611 00:46:15,256 --> 00:46:18,416 and absorb some of that good energy. 612 00:46:18,996 --> 00:46:22,036 On that notion of 613 00:46:22,036 --> 00:46:29,856 creating something for a higher purpose, what is your greatest hope for Jamaica with what you're 614 00:46:29,856 --> 00:46:33,976 creating? So obviously, you know, you've now created a tool that can be used in emergencies, 615 00:46:33,976 --> 00:46:38,176 could be used to foster some sense of financial inclusion. But in terms of like, 616 00:46:38,496 --> 00:46:42,276 maybe even a borderline utopian vision, what does Flash do for Jamaica? 617 00:46:44,196 --> 00:46:51,156 Oh, wow. I love these kind of, you know, cosmic questions. I think that, you know, 618 00:46:51,156 --> 00:46:58,516 a lot of people in Jamaica are very hopeful, very hardworking. We are probably some of the 619 00:46:58,516 --> 00:47:03,236 hardest working people in the world. That's why we're so talented in general. Probably something 620 00:47:03,236 --> 00:47:09,616 to do with the food too, the yams. But I think that the people that have that potential in 621 00:47:09,616 --> 00:47:20,211 Jamaica are going to start being able to realize they can use it you know And of course this is not every other show talks about AI so I won go into AI too much on this but AI has an 622 00:47:20,211 --> 00:47:26,151 acceleration effect, right? And you have people that are able to use something like AI and use 623 00:47:26,151 --> 00:47:31,071 something that they can fully control their own sovereign money without being, you know, diluted 624 00:47:31,071 --> 00:47:36,791 or inflated or censored. Then I think a lot of things that are being held back right now, 625 00:47:36,791 --> 00:47:42,151 in terms of talent, in terms of potential, might explode. That's my utopian vision, 626 00:47:42,511 --> 00:47:51,251 is that Jamaica becomes a productive explosion of productivity and talent. And people that 627 00:47:51,251 --> 00:47:55,951 probably left Jamaica, we call it brain drain, they left Jamaica to go have a better life 628 00:47:55,951 --> 00:47:59,711 somewhere, will realize that, oh, I can live in my hometown, in my home country, 629 00:48:00,271 --> 00:48:04,771 and still do great things with the tools that we have today. And there'll be kind of a big 630 00:48:04,771 --> 00:48:09,151 repatriation as well. I mean, these are all utopian visions, so don't think of it as, you know, 631 00:48:09,291 --> 00:48:15,511 I might be being bombastic, but people coming home, people being productive, and us growing into this, 632 00:48:15,511 --> 00:48:24,211 you know, very, very wealthy, bountiful country, you know, just because we're freed the people to 633 00:48:24,211 --> 00:48:29,491 be able to actually work is kind of my utopian vision. Lots of relations between here and there, 634 00:48:29,791 --> 00:48:31,931 but I think it's a good vision to keep working for. 635 00:48:31,931 --> 00:48:52,591 I spoke with a handful of other people who have started using Bitcoin when I was working on the piece that I worked on a few months ago about Flash and your efforts. It seems like there has been some traction already. You know, there are people using it already. I don't think that that sounds utopian. We're seeing repatriation in places like El Salvador, which we've talked about. 636 00:48:52,591 --> 00:48:59,591 are you seeing anything that's sort of the early stages of what you're talking about? 637 00:48:59,711 --> 00:49:02,071 Are you working with any developers on the ground there, 638 00:49:02,151 --> 00:49:05,951 with any people who are benefiting from this technology directly? 639 00:49:06,431 --> 00:49:10,651 And to your point, so much so that they're not thinking like, 640 00:49:10,711 --> 00:49:11,511 how do I get out of here? 641 00:49:11,551 --> 00:49:13,251 It's more like, no, no, I could be okay, 642 00:49:13,251 --> 00:49:17,091 because now I have sort of what I need to be productive and to be fruitful 643 00:49:17,091 --> 00:49:19,471 while still living here, as you put it, 644 00:49:19,471 --> 00:49:22,771 while still being home in my home country doing this work? 645 00:49:22,831 --> 00:49:26,411 Are you seeing any kind of early stages of that thus far? 646 00:49:28,211 --> 00:49:32,891 I think my view, my aperture is a little bit smaller than I would like it to be. 647 00:49:33,171 --> 00:49:35,251 I'm sure there are people out there that are doing it, 648 00:49:35,311 --> 00:49:38,291 but my aperture is focused on a lot of my users and the merchants. 649 00:49:38,811 --> 00:49:42,911 And the merchants that I see, they are showing a lot of signs of that. 650 00:49:42,911 --> 00:49:46,911 A lot of merchants that are working there and getting revenue in Jamaican dollars 651 00:49:46,911 --> 00:49:49,551 are no longer thinking of how to get it out of Jamaican dollars 652 00:49:49,551 --> 00:49:52,911 or how to escape the current jurisdiction. 653 00:49:53,371 --> 00:49:56,051 They're now thinking, the opportunity is here, right? 654 00:49:56,091 -->

00:49:57,671 I can actually save here in Bitcoin 655 00:49:57,671 --> 00:50:00,211 and go back to Jamaican dollars whenever I want to. 656 00:50:00,631 --> 00:50:03,711 So those merchants now are no longer feeling reliant 657 00:50:03,711 --> 00:50:07,771 on foreign institutions or foreign currency 658 00:50:07,771 --> 00:50:09,511 in order to keep their business running. 659 00:50:09,711 --> 00:50:10,931 And that is an amazing thing. 660 00:50:10,931 --> 00:50:14,771 It gives them a lot more freedom to build things that last on the ground. 661 00:50:14,771 --> 00:50:20,991 You know, a lot of the short term thinking was because of the, you know, need for, you know, foreign resources. 662 00:50:21,291 --> 00:50:24,331 And that doesn't that doesn't require it anymore for a lot of the merchants. 663 00:50:24,331 --> 00:50:26,831 And they're slowly starting to realize that, I think. 664 00:50:27,271 --> 00:50:31,571 Now, granted, there's a lot of steps that still need to happen for this to become a normal thing. 665 00:50:31,931 --> 00:50:35,351 But a lot of the forward thinking merchants are heading that direction. 666 00:50:35,351 --> 00:50:42,391 And I think I see more of that every day, not just for Bitcoin, but for stable coins, for digital assets, for, you know, 667 00:50:42,391 --> 00:50:47,011 ways that people can digitally transact and communicate. I think that all of that plays a 668 00:50:47,011 --> 00:50:51,471 part in the way merchants are changing the way they think and how to do business today. And I'm 669 00:50:51,471 --> 00:50:55,251 looking forward to that happening more and more, you know, because that's going to create more 670 00:50:55,251 --> 00:51:00,991 flash merchants for us. Yeah, that's amazing. There does seem to be a bit of a contagious effect. 671 00:51:01,691 --> 00:51:07,211 There's like people, they start using it, they feel the benefits of it, they teach a friend about 672 00:51:07,211 --> 00:51:14,911 it. I think on a certain level with any sort of new technology, there's some anxiety around it, 673 00:51:14,951 --> 00:51:19,491 but then just the fact that it sort of sticks around and just continues to be reliable, 674 00:51:21,031 --> 00:51:26,711 it's great. I'm just kind of thinking about you having given your home country such an amazing 675 00:51:26,711 --> 00:51:33,831 product. I think about this a lot and I think about it as a non-developer. Do you feel any 676 00:51:33,831 --> 00:51:38,611 sense of like pressure to continue to make it really good to make sure to keep up with it because 677 00:51:38,611 --> 00:51:43,711 I because it is such an amazing enabling thing that you're doing but also does some of that 678 00:51:43,711 --> 00:51:47,431 pressure potentially get alleviated because it's open source because there are other people that 679 00:51:47,431 --> 00:51:51,111 can look at the code that can help you out what is it like playing the role that you're playing 680 00:51:51,111 --> 00:51:58,931 yeah it's

a good question and I think um last year some of that pressure was realized mainly 681 00:51:58,931 --> 00:52:01,591 because we're at a point in the project 682 00:52:01,591 --> 00:52:05,511 where we're not necessarily getting a lot of reviews 683 00:52:05,511 --> 00:52:08,191 or stars or GitHub will be stars or follows. 684 00:52:08,751 --> 00:52:11,431 And we're not getting those kind of needed reviews 685 00:52:11,431 --> 00:52:14,031 to do a lot of security audits 686 00:52:14,031 --> 00:52:15,971 or a lot of code reviews to check for bugs 687 00:52:15,971 --> 00:52:19,991 and contributions to documentation, to functionality. 688 00:52:20,331 --> 00:52:21,791 We're not seeing that as much. 689 00:52:22,111 --> 00:52:23,791 You might get that in a wallet like Blink 690 00:52:23,791 --> 00:52:26,131 or a wallet like Phoenix or others 691 00:52:26,131 --> 00:52:27,771 that are much more well-known. 692 00:52:27,771 --> 00:52:32,571 but I think we need to get to the point where we're getting more independent reviews from 693 00:52:32,571 --> 00:52:37,371 Bitcoiners that you know love this kind of thing then that would really help us out so reach out 694 00:52:37,371 --> 00:52:42,351 to the community and see if that can happen another thing that was a little bit of a learning curve 695 00:52:42,351 --> 00:52:48,011 for us was also the usage of the tool you know like we started off you know trying to use it 696 00:52:48,011 --> 00:52:52,811 in a much more cypherpunk way like you know this is Bitcoin and a lot of people couldn't understand 697 00:52:52,811 --> 00:52:57,471 it. So, you know, we learned how to kind of tailor it so it's a lot more understandable 698 00:52:57,471 --> 00:53:04,071 and realizing that education is needed alongside the actual app. So we're building a lot of that 699 00:53:04,071 --> 00:53:10,151 education out as well in terms of documentation, YouTube videos, and that kind of stuff. But I 700 00:53:10,151 --> 00:53:14,971 would say that those are some of the things that we needed to build out to make sure that the app 701 00:53:14,971 --> 00:53:21,851 was usable in Jamaica. Yeah, I forgot what the rest of your question was. No, that's it. No, 702 00:53:21,851 --> 00:53:25,391 I think it's great. I was just saying, like, what sorts of responsibility do you feel? 703 00:53:25,391 --> 00:53:30,971 Do you feel any pressure to make to make sure, you know, obviously it's safe, usable, all these things. 704 00:53:30,971 --> 00:53:32,911 But I think that, you know, it's interesting. 705 00:53:32,911 --> 00:53:35,951 I think a lot of people come out of with that sort of cypherpunk. 706 00:53:35,951 --> 00:53:51,067 This has to be cool and kind of almost edgy But then you like look we just trying to make digital money that makes people life better We making technology that people generally speaking you know want to use and want to use as easily as they use maybe like comparably to something like Cash App here in the United States 707

00:53:51,587 --> 00:54:02,187 And I say I say this because I don't think it necessarily means that the spirit, the cypherpunk or like the Bitcoin spirit is inherently taken away if you're not approaching it with that edginess. 708 00:54:02,187 --> 00:54:12,507 Because I think just the fact that you're enabling people and providing them with the opportunity that it does provide them just to have this app and what it facilitates for them, I think you're still keeping that spirit alive. 709 00:54:12,627 --> 00:54:14,347 You're just doing it in a more subtle way. 710 00:54:14,347 --> 00:54:17,807 You're not hitting people over the head with it saying, this is what I'm all about. 711 00:54:17,967 --> 00:54:22,487 But at the same time, they're feeling the benefits of what you're all about and what you're trying to do for them. 712 00:54:22,647 --> 00:54:23,907 Is that a fair way to put it? 713 00:54:24,027 --> 00:54:24,567 I don't know. 714 00:54:24,587 --> 00:54:27,927 I've been trying to refine this sort of perspective on Bitcoin myself. 715 00:54:28,067 --> 00:54:29,347 So maybe I'm just projecting here. 716 00:54:29,407 --> 00:54:29,727 I don't know. 717 00:54:29,727 --> 00:54:58,487 No, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head. I think I like to term it the trying to find the lowest common denominator customer and make sure that they are taken care of. There's a good friend that I have in Jamaica, that's his name is Mikey. And for Mikey to use the app, it can't be, you know, only for iPhone 16, you know, it has to be able to run on a phone that is, you know, commoditized or a low resource phone. And then Jamaica doesn't always have the best internet everywhere. 718 00:54:58,487 --> 00:55:02,607 so you can't just have a high bandwidth internet access to the phone it has to be able to run 719 00:55:02,607 --> 00:55:07,327 offline partially part of the time or in a low bandwidth situation and these are the kind of 720 00:55:07,327 --> 00:55:11,587 things that i say okay we can get to that customer even a customer who doesn't like to type that much 721 00:55:11,587 --> 00:55:15,467 you know a lot of people in jamaica and the caribbean and latin america everywhere except 722 00:55:15,467 --> 00:55:21,047 sorry for the cursing everywhere except um the u.s almost uses whatsapp and when you use whatsapp a 723 00:55:21,047 --> 00:55:26,267 lot of people use voice notes so we you know we're getting to the point where as the app can you can 724 00:55:26,267 --> 00:55:30,347 you work for people that want to use a voice note, you know, to send a message instead of 725 00:55:30,347 --> 00:55:35,307 typing, then the app has that kind of accessibility controls in it. You know, so imagine you're using 726 00:55:35,307 --> 00:55:40,427 the app, you're sending a Nasta message and you tell the app, you know, zap 100 sats to my friend 727 00:55:40,427 --> 00:55:45,907 Mikey. And the app converts that into an actual action that you can confirm and send the money to

728 00:55:45,907 --> 00:55:50,707 him. Not techie at all, right? It's just a voice note you're sending at that point. And that's where 729 00:55:50,707 --> 00:55:55,347 we want to get to. We want to serve those kind of people. And that's really what drives me and makes 730 00:55:55,347 --> 00:56:01,847 me feel like, you know, we're covering that gap. Yeah. Amazing. It sounds, again, as a non-technical 731 00:56:01,847 --> 00:56:05,927 person, that sounds quite challenging, but super, super cool to think about. You actually also kind 732 00:56:05,927 --> 00:56:10,367 of beat me to my last question here is sort of what comes next. Any other things like that? I 733 00:56:10,367 --> 00:56:13,827 know that accessibility is really big for you. So if you want to touch on that a little bit, 734 00:56:13,867 --> 00:56:17,567 and then in terms of what comes next, obviously what comes next for Flash and then just 735 00:56:17,567 --> 00:56:22,427 next steps for you, what's happening with Jamaica, the recovery effort, and then maybe ways that 736 00:56:22,427 --> 00:56:28,847 people might be able to still help if they want to. Sure. So first, what comes next for Flash? 737 00:56:28,967 --> 00:56:33,667 You know, we're rolling out our new beta release soon. We still haven't fully launched. Like all of 738 00:56:33,667 --> 00:56:39,227 this has been happening in a pre-launch stage and it's been amazing, you know, adoption. So we're 739 00:56:39,227 --> 00:56:43,867 going to be launching on Bitcoin Pizza Day, May 22nd. We have a lot of really cool surprises that 740 00:56:43,867 --> 00:56:49,487 I can't tell you on this podcast, but I really want to. I'll probably tell you offline, but just 741 00:56:49,487 --> 00:56:53,347 know that you're going to have a lot of really cool, exciting things that people all around the 742 00:56:53,347 --> 00:56:59,287 world can participate in as part of our launch. And then, you know, we're going to be also having 743 00:56:59,287 --> 00:57:03,207 a lot of new rollout features, you know, a lot more Nasta stuff. We're going to have additional 744 00:57:03,207 --> 00:57:08,907 features for Jamaicans to access the international markets, you know, as a finance, basically, not 745 00:57:08,907 --> 00:57:15,807 investment, but just buying things and being able to use international bank accounts. So we have 746 00:57:15,807 --> 00:57:21,667 that rolling out. And then on the Hurricane Melissa stage, like I said, we're still sending buses 747 00:57:21,667 --> 00:57:28,807 over to the west of the island. But most importantly, once we have our final set of 748 00:57:28,807 --> 00:57:33,547 solar panel generators land in Jamaica and get cleared, we're going to be going to different 749 00:57:33,547 --> 00:57:37,647 community centers and donating those to the community center. Now, granted, the community 750 00:57:37,647 --> 00:57:41,967 centers have already probably gotten their internet back up, gotten their electricity back up, and 751 00:57:41,967 --> 00:57:46,927 they're running again. But these are the places that are going to be the center for the next 752 00:57:46,927 --> 00:57:51,387 disaster that happens, right? So we want to make sure that before the next disaster happens, we 753 00:57:51,387 --> 00:57:57,107 have them up and running with internet that can work without, you know, needing the grid, 754 00:57:57,807 --> 00:58:02,587 electricity that can work without needing the grid, and then finally, Bitcoin that can work 755 00:58:02,587 --> 00:58:06,767 without needing the grid. So if we can set them up with those three things, a node, Starlink or 756 00:58:06,767 --> 00:58:12,487 something and the solar panels, then we're going to have these really resilient nodes around the 757 00:58:12,487 --> 00:58:18,587 country that can withstand the next disaster. That is the goal. So you're actually thinking 758 00:58:18,587 --> 00:58:22,947 in terms of this like resilience by like a disaster standard, that's sort of your, 759 00:58:23,107 --> 00:58:27,627 how can I say, like your baseline almost at this point? I don't know if that's the best word to use, 760 00:58:27,707 --> 00:58:33,087 but is that like... Absolutely. Yeah, it's like the table stakes. The baseline is if we're setting 761 00:58:33,087 --> 00:58:36,767 you up with a node and you are going to be one of our, we call it Project Island Resilience. 762 00:58:37,267 --> 00:58:41,167 And we're setting you up with one of these nodes. This node is going to have internet power and the 763 00:58:41,167 --> 00:58:47,047 way to actually send either communication via Nostra or payment via Bitcoin. And that, you know, 764 00:58:47,047 --> 00:58:51,067 will be, of course, checked every now and again. We were looking into different ways that we could 765 00:58:51,067 --> 00:58:55,947 do offline payments as well. So I'm not really sure which protocol we'll use. And we're kind of 766 00:58:55,947 --> 00:59:00,787 experimenting with that right now. But that'll be part of it as well. You know, as merchants around 767 00:59:00,787 --> 00:59:05,647 the area will need to still transact, right? So you might have a mint in the node. A lot of that's, 768 00:59:05,647 --> 00:59:10,907 you know, technical, but the point is it's a resilience node that we'll have around the island. 769 00:59:11,187 --> 00:59:16,427 And if you are in disaster zone, that should be the place you go to and get what you need without, 770 00:59:16,427 --> 00:59:25,607 you know, having to wait for help or wait for recovery. Wow. That's amazing. In terms of 771 00:59:25,607 --> 00:59:31,467 creating these hubs, is it all just organic? Is it just, again, that coordination amongst 772 00:59:31,467 --> 00:59:34,967 different groups that you mentioned in the beginning of this conversation? Is it all just 773 00:59:34,967 --> 00:59:39,127 happening? Or is there some level of federal government involved with this? Or is this all 774 00:59:39,127 --> 00:59:43,847 just

basically grassroots efforts between different people working together on this right now? 775 00:59:44,847 --> 00:59:49,207 It's all grassroots at this point. We haven't even approached any of the federal or other 776 00:59:49,207 --> 00:59:54,587 institutions. And I think it's a good idea for us to do it. But I think that it would be much 777 00:59:54,587 --> 00:59:59,547 better to actually like lay a kind of proof of concept, a foundation that works, and then go to 778 00:59:59,547 --> 01:00:17,543 them with this proof of concept saying hey this works You know so at the federal level if you guys are interested in rolling this out we have a method that works We have the knowledge to volunteer and give to you Let do it together And I hope that happens because Jamaica is really known for adopting things well if they work and going viral with it 779 01:00:17,963 --> 01:00:24,083 So if Jamaica adopts this, we could see at a federal level this happening all over the country and all the region. 780 01:00:24,623 --> 01:00:26,323 But, you know, I am always the utopian. 781 01:00:26,323 --> 01:00:35,863 So at a bare minimum, we're going to have 10, you know, community centers that will be donated with solar panels and Bitcoin nodes. 782 01:00:36,243 --> 01:00:37,663 And then we'll take it from there. 783 01:00:39,063 --> 01:00:40,923 Bananas. Absolutely amazing. 784 01:00:41,163 --> 01:00:47,163 That's yeah. Maybe bananas isn't the best word, but I'm just like kind of blown away that I didn't know this was all happening. 785 01:00:47,163 --> 01:01:01,603 But it's just really, really amazing to see because I think oftentimes with relief efforts, from my limited understanding of being involved with them, there's a lot of like, OK, let's let's repair things and get things to like a state where it's like, OK, everything's good enough. 786 01:01:01,663 --> 01:01:08,063 And now we can get back to our daily lives. But there's a level of proactivity here of preparing, knowing that this is going to happen again. 787 01:01:08,063 --> 01:01:14,703 But using this technology on that level, I haven't heard of anybody else doing that, at least not to this extent. 788 01:01:14,703 --> 01:01:23,683 And also, I think combining these different elements that you're talking about, it just seems like an absolutely amazing, just an absolutely incredible effort. 789 01:01:23,882 --> 01:01:27,402 So I commend you for it. Very much appreciate you sharing it here. 790 01:01:27,963 --> 01:01:30,923 Where can people follow not only you, but the effort? 791 01:01:31,043 --> 01:01:36,043 Are you documenting this anywhere that they can sort of maybe follow along or continue to get more information about it? 792 01:01:36,863 --> 01:01:41,983 I probably should. I've been so heads down that the documentation part is always falling to the wayside. 793 01:01:41,983 --> 01:01:44,003 So I'm happy I'm doing podcasts like this. 794 01:01:44,142 --> 01:01:46,543 And, you know, I'm probably going

to start writing some articles too. 795 01:01:46,723 --> 01:01:50,043 But if you want to follow what we're doing in general, you can follow us on Twitter. 796 01:01:50,262 --> 01:01:52,563 It is on getflash or lnflash on Twitter. 797 01:01:52,882 --> 01:01:54,882 On Instagram, it is getflash.io. 798 01:01:55,083 --> 01:01:57,303 It's getflash.io on most social media. 799 01:01:57,902 --> 01:02:00,443 And you can go to the website and see all the social media links there. 800 01:02:00,843 --> 01:02:03,142 And then we're also on Noster as Flash. 801 01:02:03,303 --> 01:02:04,963 So, you know, definitely follow us on Noster. 802 01:02:05,402 --> 01:02:08,863 But the open source community knows a lot of our team and knows us. 803 01:02:08,943 --> 01:02:10,803 And I have to shout out to the open source community. 804 01:02:10,803 --> 01:02:19,282 Like, you know, people who are building on Fedimint, people who are building on Cashew, people who are building on stablecoins even, you know, a lot of the open source stuff. 805 01:02:19,402 --> 01:02:35,622 Anyway, a lot of that stuff has really helped us to maintain velocity, you know, like to maintain the velocity of innovation that is needed for countries like ours and countries that are in conflict zones and countries that are in consistent disaster zones to get the resources they need. 806 01:02:35,622 --> 01:02:41,563 Like this is the change in the world that we need to see so that we can move at the speed of technology. 807 01:02:42,083 --> 01:02:47,902 You know, the people that need electricity in Africa, they're getting, you know, expanded electricity from companies like Gridless. 808 01:02:48,343 --> 01:02:50,603 These things are needed and we're going to keep building it. 809 01:02:50,843 --> 01:02:52,483 And I'm really happy to be a part of that. 810 01:02:52,522 --> 01:02:59,003 And I thank the open source community that I'm working with and the human rights community that I'm working with that helps with the, you know, everything that we're doing. 811 01:02:59,423 --> 01:03:03,622 So if you want to reach out to me directly, I am Dredd also on everything. 812 01:03:03,622 --> 01:03:10,943 everything well not on instagram but on twitter and nostril aren't you pull pull vault uh i'm 813 01:03:10,943 --> 01:03:19,683 spacing out a pull vault hero i forget it it's pull wall dream well what do you call it the the 814 01:03:19,683 --> 01:03:25,003 name on it just says dread okay if you type in pull wall dream you'll see dread and i'm you know 815 01:03:25,003 --> 01:03:30,683 check out what i'm doing and what we're doing we always we always you know meme and crap post on 816 01:03:30,683 --> 01:03:32,043 Twitter whenever we have the chance. 817 01:03:32,863 --> 01:03:34,723 Yeah, and for those who are unaware, 818 01:03:34,923 --> 01:03:36,762 Dredd is a pole vault champion. 819 01:03:37,103 --> 01:03:38,522 I don't know the easiest way to say it. 820 01:03:38,522 --> 01:03:39,663 We have the picture

behind him there. 821 01:03:39,723 --> 01:03:40,843 We didn't get into this today, 822 01:03:41,022 --> 01:03:43,663 but competed in the national game. 823 01:03:44,163 --> 01:03:44,723 Yeah, I was going to say, 824 01:03:44,882 --> 01:03:46,503 maybe a quick, before we go there, 825 01:03:46,583 --> 01:03:47,522 just maybe a quick overview 826 01:03:47,522 --> 01:03:48,483 of your pole vault skills. 827 01:03:50,022 --> 01:03:51,703 Yeah, I competed for Jamaica 828 01:03:51,703 --> 01:03:53,863 from high school all the way up 829 01:03:53,863 --> 01:03:54,543 to professional. 830 01:03:55,063 --> 01:03:56,762 I tried out for the Olympics twice 831 01:03:56,762 --> 01:03:58,642 and competed at every other level down, 832 01:03:59,243 --> 01:04:00,443 won a couple medals, 833 01:04:00,443 --> 01:04:12,703 And I guess the biggest achievement is that I held the national record for Jamaica in the pole vault for 11 years running and then coached the guy that ended up breaking my record after it was over. 834 01:04:12,943 --> 01:04:15,603 So I coached as well after, you know, my heyday. 835 01:04:15,743 --> 01:04:18,423 But it's been a passion for me and I still follow it. 836 01:04:18,622 --> 01:04:22,142 And hopefully one day I'll be coaching my son as well on how to pole vault. 837 01:04:23,022 --> 01:04:23,503 Amazing. 838 01:04:23,763 --> 01:04:24,243 Go pole vault. 839 01:04:25,443 --> 01:04:28,443 I hope, yeah, thank you for taking the time to do this, Dredd. 840 01:04:28,483 --> 01:04:29,122 I know you're busy. 841 01:04:29,122 --> 01:04:33,743 I hope everybody listening just gets how awesome the work that Dread is doing. 842 01:04:33,943 --> 01:04:35,183 It's really, really amazing stuff. 843 01:04:35,243 --> 01:04:47,583 And I think it's a true testament to not just cypherpunk culture or whatever, but you can just do things and you can use this technology to do such incredible good in the world and tell people about that. 844 01:04:47,763 --> 01:04:53,183 You know, we oftentimes we're hearing about a lot of the financialization of Bitcoin and all this other stuff, which is fine to each their own. 845 01:04:53,243 --> 01:04:54,423 Everybody can do their thing. 846 01:04:54,423 --> 01:05:02,703 But, you know, using Bitcoin freedom tech, what's now becoming emergency tech, as we were saying, you know, it's it's truly changing lives. 847 01:05:02,703 --> 01:05:09,122 It's making stuff better for the next time things go wrong that that a place like Jamaica experiences severe hurricanes. 848 01:05:09,583 --> 01:05:12,923 And, you know, this this narrative does not get out there enough. 849 01:05:12,923 --> 01:05:22,223 And the only thing I think that's significantly harder than spreading this narrative is being the person building the technology that that underpins it all. 850 01:05:22,223 --> 01:05:35,683 And that's actually creating this technology and making it usable for people. So Dred, many thanks for the work that you do. You're an incredible inspiration. And thank you again for taking the time to jump on here with me and talk about this stuff. 851 01:05:36,963 --> 01:05:39,443 Thank you, Frank. One love. And I hope to see you soon. 852 01:05:40,282 --> 01:05:44,263 Absolutely, my friend. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. We will talk soon. Take it easy. 853 01:05:44,263 --> 01:05:58,303 Hey everyone, Frank again. Just wanted to say thank you so much for listening. It was an honor to help Dredge share his story, as not only is he an incredible Bitcoiner, but a remarkable human being as well. Feel free to share his story far and wide. 854 01:05:58,723 --> 01:06:12,983 Also, as I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, I'm always looking for more good stories like this, so please feel free to contact me with any leads at newrentcap at gmail.com. That's N-E-W-R-E-N-C-A-P at gmail.com. 855 01:06:12,983 --> 01:06:18,522 finally once more we would greatly appreciate if you could subscribe and maybe leave a rating and 856 01:06:18,522 --> 01:06:24,022 review it would really help the algorithm find us and that's that thank you again for listening 857 01:06:24,022 --> 01:06:25,882 and we'll talk soon much love everybody