התמלול המלא של Nerd Sesh - Wemby makes history but can still improve, Chet is a Top 5 Center, Jets expose Texans

definitively say anything about what Wenby can achieve this season. Right If we looked at Wemby at the start of last year and said this is who you are for the rest of the year, we would have been completely wrong. He ascended from playing at like a top fifty level to playing at like a fringe top fifteen sort of level. So exponential growth, exponential development is very much always on the table when you have a player who is physically one of the most gifted that we have ever seen. And I thought that last night's game, the five by five was wildly impressive. I thought that he completely destroyed that game defensively, some of his three balls finally started falling. I thought he was super creative as a playmaker, which we know is just one more offensive trait that puts Wenby over the top, makes him so special. It was a really great game overall. Though Wenby's been struggling offensively this year. He's given you just eighteen a night on fifty four percent true shooting. And the biggest thing to me that is going to be the challenge, the hurdle that Wenby has to overcome is realizing that he's not a wing. You talk about him having to be more of an interior presence. I completely agree that is a combination of circumstance and of his own personal shot selection. Some of it is on him, some of it is on the situation. And what we're really seeing this year that's making it a little tougher on him is the teams are guarding Wemby with their wings and they're putting their centers on Jeremy Sohan to just roam off, crowd the paint on Wenby, dry rolls, and really just muck things up for the offense as a whole. We see that multiple matchups now we saw it with Oka See even with chet off the floor, Oka See was guarding Wenby with Carusoe and lou Dorton Jadab and they were doing that pretty successfully. When you have these hounds on the perimeter who can pressure him. And I think the most successful version that we've seen so far is Dylan Brooks in the Houston Rockets. Now they don't have the interior defender on the back line, so as a team they don't necessarily guard him as well as the Thunder did. But specifically, Dylan Brooks is kind of the ideal player to guard Victor Wee Monyama right now because when he is consistently initiating twenty five feet away from the basket, you have a low center of gravity hound irritant like Dylan Brooks. He's just not going to get a step on him. He's going to struggle to move him out of the post unless he has a really deep inside catch point. And so he's struggling and we're seeing him jack up threes seven threes right now. Forty six percent of his shot slogan are coming from deep. That is way too much, and he's only making twenty three percent of them. This I thought was the biggest struggle that we saw from Wemby last year. He was far too perimeter centric early last year especially, And although yes, he is a really special shooting talent for his size at seven foot four, that is never, ever, ever going to be his greatest weapon. His greatest weapon is being a fluid athlete at seven foot four with an eight foot wingspan, who if you put the ball anywhere around the rim, has the single craziest catch radius that I have ever seen. And it does make it harder for him to be effective as a role man when there is a roamer defensively right when the center is just parked in the paint, ready to help at all times. I still want to see more of it, though, and we're looking at a super small sample size right now on the year, but Lenbia shot one of ten on spot up possessions. He's generating zero point six points per pick and roll that he runs in zero point seven eight points per isolation. Right, those are terrible, terrible numbers, super small sample size, but that's terrible offense. Meanwhile, he's scoring more than one point two points per role and he's generating more than one point per post up, and I don't think Wemby is a great post player right now, but at this point you are often seeing him just being gifted mismatches going down the floor. So I don't want Wemby posting up centers, but what I'd like to see Wemby post up these wings so more and just try to get within ten feet of the basket and then he can put up a touch shot or a turn around over them. And he has such an overwhelming size advantage that that's still pretty good efficient offense. I would like to see more of that. But the biggest thing is just get him involved in pick and roll. I mean, it is unstoppable when you are able to manufacture a shot for Wenby around the rim, and that's what CP three can do. He's not an advantage creator, but he is still a precise passer. This is what we saw with Trey Jones on the floor with Wenby last year. Wenby became much more efficient just with an actual point guard out there who can hit him in his spots and the whole strategy with roaming off of him, putting their guys on so hand and roaming off of Sohn. That's making things harder and I do wonder if when Devin Vessel is healthy again, you try to go more Harrison Barnes at the four. And I still think that teams will roam off of Harrison Barnes, but at the very least then you have a shooter who can hold them accountable and maybe force them out of that strategy instead of just having a guy in the dunker spot. And Sohn who's not the sort of athlete where it's like he's gonna consistently punish them at a high level there, and so Han's actually been pretty good to start this year. It's just difficult in terms of spacing to have a complete non shooter like that alongside Wemby. So I think that they'll have to figure that out. They'll have to get better spacing around him. They need to run more pick and roll for him. But ultimately I do think there is just a burden on Wemby to be more aggressive and assertive as an interior player. It's a combination of everything here right the circumstances, I think that Pop Frankly just needs to be more firm with him about how he has to play. Because I was talking with my friend

about this and he was like, do we really think that Pop is saying like, yeah, Wenby, I want most of your touches to be you initiating from the perimeter, running, pick and roll, isolating, And I said, no, I don't think that's the case. So I do think that's on Wemby. At the same time, Pop clearly hasn't put his foot down hard enough, right, he has to be assertive and tell Wenby, you are not a wing right, it's awesome that you can do this stuff. It's going to put you over the top. It is not the foundation, the bread and butter of your game. That's how he's going to be the best version of himself when he is a completely dominant big who does some wing stuff on top of that, who has this perimeter skill on top of that. It's not going to come from him taking ten threes a game. And once he figures that out, and yes, it'll be big when he gets a guard alongside and who can pressure the rim more and is who who's a more dynamic creator. But CB three is an upgrade and I think that they do have good chemistry, they just need to tap into it more. And that is on the Spurs. That is also definitely on Wemby. 00:11:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume Pop's just kind of letting him run out there and play man. You know, there's no real like direction or anything. 00:12:02 Speaker 3: But you can't do that, and it's your responsibility to tell a twenty year old how to put himself in the best position to succeed. 00:12:10 Speaker 1: I completely agree, because I mean once Wemby figures out the footwork and the stuff like that, like he is going to be unstoppable, and you see the flashes of it in certain games. I mentioned that Rockets game for a little bit. You know, he had Tarry Eason on him and he was working well against that mismatch. There's some drives that he has in that game where he does have one on one against centers. Now, I know Landale and Sengoon aren't the best defensive guys, but he puts his elbow into Sengoon and pushes him off of him to create the space and gets an easy layup. He literally again Wemby is Wemby's on the left low block by himself against one of the two. Because I can't tell Landale and Sengoon apart they're both big, bulky white dudes. I really can't tell him a part it's one of them on the left low block. Wemby reaches under him under his arm with his left arm. The defender is in front of him, and Wemby completely reaches under his arm and lays a layup off the glass. It's like literally just getting closer to the basket. Yeah, is going to open up a whole new world of possibilities for Wemby. And that's why I talk about the exponential growth Courson, because it's not an ability thing with Wemby. It's just about him consciously realizing in his mind that that is what's going to create the highest shock quality and the best looks for him. That's why I don't expect the exponential growth this year, because I just think it's a mental thing that he's gonna have to work through. And if he does that, oh my god, dude, you're looking at a completely

different basketball player. And I'm glad that you mentioned it in the long run, because in the long run, Wemby's nowhere close to his prime yet. Right in five years from now, six years from now, when Wemby does have it all figured out, he's going to be unstoppable. Right when he has the threes, when he's got the mid range game. When he's bulked up and he's bigger, it's all going to be figured out. But it starts with building that foundation on the low block in the post, and he needs to start doing that now. Man, it's just the best offense for him right now. And also, like you said, Man, I think that if the Spurs leaned into the spacing and just put four shooters around him, teams aren't gonna be able to load up the paint like they do against him when he is on the low block, right because we've seen teams do that. It's gonna empower him as a playmaker when they throw those doubles at him. It's gonna unlock just this entire offense. But it starts with going in the post. Man, he's seven foot four with an over eight foot wingspan. He should be able to manufacture any look that he wants on the interior, and especially against those wing looks. Man. I agree. He struggles to create space in isolation by himself because he is big and he is long, but he's not like the most shifty guy right He's not creating a ton of space on ball by himself in those isolation spots. So yeah, it starts with him going on the low block and just getting closer to the basket. Man. I think once Wemby starts doing that, a holy world of possibility is going to open up for him offensively. But I don't know. Man, We've seen a year and a little bit of him from now. I just don't know if that's gonna just magically happen overnight, you know what I mean? Like he really wants to play on the perimeter. Yeah, I don't know when that. I don't know when that light bulb is going to go off for Wemby. 00:15:22 Speaker 3: For me, it's not as much about the post game specifically, Like I said, when he has a mismatch, yeah, I want to see him attack that. But he doesn't have a super developed post game, right. He is slight, he can be moved off his spots. He doesn't really have a hook shot that he can comfortably go to yet. It's just about really being more involved as a roller. I think that that is so clearly where he's most effective, and this is going to require a mentality shift and maybe that is more gradual from Wemby. All I know is that I thought that we saw him take a leap in terms of his aggression as a driver last year midway through the season. I thought that we saw him take a little leap as a playmaker midway through last season. Like the abilities so overwhelming that I don't want to discount any possibility. And I'm not worried about Wemby, to be clear, he still has so much time left to grow into basically limitless potential. We just got to monitor this because he's not a wing. And oftentimes I look at him out there and I think, Wemby, you think you're a wing. You think you're seven to four KD. You are not. I cannot emphasize enough. You are not seven four KD. 00:16:24 Speaker 1: Right. 00:16:24 Speaker 3: He is not that level ball handler. He is not that level shooter. Some people have tried to say that, It's never been true. What he is is the guy with the potential to be the greatest defensive player ever, who can handle, who can shoot, who can facilitate, who is able to consistently outrun other bigs down the floor in transition, and who you can get the ball anywhere in the vicinity of the rim and he can finish. And that's a dude who should be the best player in the league. So just want to make sure that he stays on the right trajectory there. And I hope that this looks better as the year goes on. But logan, when we're talking about special Unicorn centers, Ched Holmer playing out of his mind right now and very convincingly outplayed Wemby in their head to head matchup earlier in the week. We've been singing Chet's praises all year. I mean, I made a whole video breakdown about him a few days ago. But let's start to have some real conversations about Chet as he's climbing up the ladder around the league. How many centers would you take over Chet? 00:17:23 Speaker 1: I mean, you tell me if you think this list is too short. I can only come up with two names at full strength that I would take over him, and that's Anthony Davis, and that's Joel embiid Way and Jokic. 00:17:33 Speaker 3: Obviously you would take Chet over Wemby today. 00:17:38 Speaker 1: That's the one that I really struggled with. Wemby was where I drew the line because I can't And what do you mean by this? Do you mean like for a game tomorrow or like long term? 00:17:47 Speaker 2: No? 00:17:47 Speaker 1: What is this season, like if I, I think I would, And the only reason I say that is I just think there's a lot more polished with Chet's game in the sense of it, just to preface this conversation, it is tough to evaluate, right because I think Wemby obviously would be so much better if he played with a thunder, right Like, Chet's job is just so much easier. It's spread out, there's talent everywhere, There's great defenders in front of him that helped make this the best defense in the NBA, right Like, the thunder situation is just so much better for Chet. But those are the only three guys that I could name, was ad Mbad and Jokic that I would concretely take over him. He's one of the best defensive anchors in basketball immediately. And it's like, I just think Chet understands his game a little bit better than Wemby right now. I think Chet understands how to maximize his value on the court, Like for sure, he just knows his identity a little bit more offensively, and they're just a little bit more polished there with Chet right now, tremendous positional instincts. We always talk about this with Chet like he just knows where to be. He's got a nose for the ball, he knows where it's going. Like again that chase down block, and we saw in the debut game,

Man, when Murray hits Gordon on that dot, that recovery. It's insane stuff. Man. There's only a few centers in the league that can make to know that that pass is coming on the back end. The way he can defend the ball handler in the pick and roll when he's driving and still recover to block his role. Man, it's stuff that only him, in a few handful of guys can do in the league. He's great at staying vertical, he's great at not fouling, and this year specifically, we've seen way more improved physicality in rebounding. Like I look like Chet is a dog man. Chet is a dude that plays hard, and I really like that he runs the floor exceptionally well. I think we've seen an improvement there. And that's a leg that Chet has up over other centers because he is so fluid. That's the thing that makes the Thunder defense even more deadly, man, is when the Thunder dude get a stop, they are all out on the break. In getting out in transition. There's no like liabilities right like. I'll use this as a loose example. The Bucks, for example, say they miraculously get a stop with this old ass Team Brooks, old ass getting up and down the court. Man, he's too old. But check feeling. You know, he's flying down the court and he's figuring it out offensively too. Man Like I talk about his identity, check just understands one. He's one of the greatest shooting prospects of all time. He's one of the greatest. I think he's going to be one of the greatest shooting big men in NBA history. The way he spreads defenses out. He's routinely bringing the center out of the paint in the half court, right they have to respect him. If they're in man coverage, you got to bring the guy out of the paint to guard him, which opens up the entire floor for the rest of the teammates. That's a weapon. But this year we're watching Chet run, picking rolls, handling from the premier. He did a little bit of this last year, but he's doing it more. But the thing I've been most impressed with is he's driving with purpose in intense, intense and strength this year, like he's driving with a new kind of physicality that we didn't see as much last year. You've said this a million times, Carson, but I'll reiterate it, like check really is the perfect modern five. Yeah, him and Wemby were made in the lab man and the difference between him and Wemby to me right now is that Chet has the polish that Wemby doesn't have. And again, I just think Chet understands his identity in his value a little bit more offensively than Wemby does. Right now, I think just Chet understands what he needs to do to maximize his potential on that end of the floor. And that's why I would take him over Wemby. But I'll say it again, it is a little tough to evaluate because Cheed is in the best situation in basketball and Wemby's in one of the worst situations in basketball. So I wouldn't I wouldn't push too far back if you took Wemby. But I think Chet's just a little more polished right now. 00:21:45 Speaker 3: Even as perhaps the biggest Chet fan on the face of the earth ever since he was a prospect, I still do think I would give Wemby the nod, I could do the cop out of its situational I legitimately think there is truth of this, though. If I were trying to win a title and I need one of these guys to be my number two, there's a really strong case that I would take check because of what you mentioned, he is more polished. I saw somebody respond to one of my tweets the other day about how insanely weld Chet was playing, that he's playing like a top twenty guy, that all NBA is not out of the question for him this year, and they were like, Chet's looking like year one Wemby, and I was like, dude, first of all, stop with these comparisons in a pejorative way. Both these dudes are so fucking special and if you can't see that, you're just missing out. But also it's like, if Wemby was handling like this, if Wemby was driving like this, if Wemby was shooting like this, brother, he'd be top five already. If Wemby was this polish defensively, oh my god, he would be the goat already. Chet doesn't have Wemby level freak physical tools seven to four with an eight foot wingspan. He's still a freak. He's still seven to one with a seven to six wingspan. But Wemby's length and size destroy games in ways that we've never seen in this league. And it's so overwhelming. But Cheed is more polish, Cheded is more put together. That being said, I do still think there is such an overwhelming impact because of Wemby's raw physical traits, and I do think he is in such an inferior situation, and I do think he's gonna play better as the year goes along, and we already saw a better performance last night. I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Chet. I still just think the ability with Wemby is so ridiculous as a floor razor. Right, if you were to put both these dudes in San Antonio, I do think the Spurs are better with Wemby out there. If you were to put them both in Okace, Wemby would definitely look better than he does in San Antonio, And so I still think I give him the edge, right, I mean, if he were manufactured a higher shot quality, which he would be in Oka, see getting more shots manufactured him around the rim as we were talking about. But I don't think he would just become a super decisive driver like Chet is right now. Right, He's not gonna start shooting the ball from three like Chet has since he was a prospect, and he had a cold end to last year, but he is heating up now from deep over these past couple games. So I'll add Wemby to that list of Jokic, ENBT, and AD after that, though, I think the Chet is clear of everybody. He's averaging twenty three eleven to three and five stocks per game this year on sixty six percent true shooting. He is a dramatically improved driver from last year in a far more aggressive offensive player. He's always had a crazy tight, impressive handle for seven to one right. He still loses the ball in traffic sometimes, but he's consistently been a better,

more controlled ball handler than Wemby. But it's just the level of insistence that he has on getting downhill right now, the imposition on the game. He's averaging a couple more drives per game than last season. He's averaging twice as many restricted area makes and has been ridiculously efficient in the restricted area. He is getting the line almost twice as much per game. That's another reflection of his increased aggression, and as a driver is a big part of it, right, he's beating wings, attacking closeouts, he's dusting these slower footed bigs. But it's also what he's doing as a rollman, where he's always had the vertical spacing right, massive lob threat, super fluid roller, agile in the air, and he's always been a really good pick and popper. Now I think we're seeing him add a little bit more though with the short role game, with what he does playing out of the pocket. If that's getting to a little short jumper right, if the defense is playing off of him, or if a slower footed big steps up to challenge him, it's hitting you with a little pump and then a drive from ten feet out and finishing aggressively. We are seeing a Chet Holmgren who is set on dominating basketball games, not just fitting in and playing his ass off and being an elite defender, but offensively complimenting the stars around and being a great play finisher, but not asserting himself like a consistent offensive star. Now, that dude, and that's the Chet that I've always expected to come to fruition. That's a Chet who, as he continues to grow, has a potential to be a defensive player of the year. I mean, he already has potential, but I only grow higher on his scoring ceiling by the day, Dude. I mean the level of skill we're seeing from the perimeter from him right now, in the level of aggression, I think it's very possible this guy is a twenty five plus point per game scorer down the line. And if he is that, he's a bona fide MVP candidate with what he does defensively and how efficient he is offensively and how versatile he is, and the value he brings as a playmaker as well. And even if he's just twenty three a night, I still think he'd be in those conversations. So if we just run down the list, dude, some of the names that I've seen people mentioning Gobert, it's not close, right. There is no feasible argument that the defensive gap when Chet is playing like a top five defender on the planet is remotely close to the offensive gap where Chet is a weapon and Gobar is still ultimately a liability. Karl Anthony Towns and Demontas Bonis. I think you have the inverse where those guys you can say are still slightly better offensive players than Chet. Right, Kad is still the more special shooter. He's still a significantly better post player, can assert himself physically there, but he's not the driver that Chet is. He's not the transition player that Chet is. Still a really good shooter. So I think it's close offensively, it's not close at all defensively, Domas Right, I mean, you get special playmaking value, you get how he controls the glass, you get his screening value. Ultimately, though, with the concerns I have about him as a score in terms of creating his own offense out of the post, the concerns I have about him as a floor spacer, where we've seen him disappear consistently in big spots, not even willing to take jump shots. You cannot convince me that the offensive gap is equivalent to the defensive gap. I think he's clear of those conversations. I'm convinced by the leap that we've seen from Chet. And then you get to the next couple dudes who I'm really high on. Christophs Porzingis you know, Logan, I think does a couple of the most important things you could ask for from a big and extremely high level pure rimp protection, post up monster and a really good floor spacer as well. But Chet is a better defender, a significantly better defender ultimately, because he's better at the pure rimp protection and stuff. I think he's a better rebounder. Now. Neither of them are great rebounding fives. I'm not just going to react to four games, but KP's always been a mediocre rebounding center, and he's just significantly better guarding in space. Like Chet is a really switchable big, and offensively, I mean, he's doing so much off the bounce right now, and he's such a skilled playmaker. I don't think of that gap offsets the defensive gap. And then BAM is tough because I love BAM and I think these guys are in the same tier defensively, but I do think there's a different level of offensive skill with Chet right now, and BAM hasn't played in great offensive situations. But look at them as self creators again. Look at what Chet is already doing as a driver off the bounce, look at what he's already doing as a shooter. He has avenues to creating great offense for himself, where Bam has always struggled to be efficient as a self creator and to be efficient as an overall offensive player. So I do think Bam would look better offensively in a better situation. I think that one's close. But I'm taking Chet, dude. I think Chet is a monster, and I think the ceiling is the roof for him, dude. And I think he's a generational talent. I do. I called him the best prospect in a decade. Wemby arriving a year later doesn't change that. These are two of the most special big talents we've seen in a long time, who are handcrafted to destroy the modern NBA, and Chet's living up to that already. 00:29:21 Speaker 1: You take Chet over Miles turn That's a tough one logan. 00:29:25 Speaker 3: That's a doozy, isn't it. But you know what, I'm gonna take Chet. I'm gonna take the Alien. 00:29:32 Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad you mentioned like you Chet is taking over basketball games. I mean it was a coming out party. I think to people who you know, have n't been paying as much attention that first game against the Nuggets, like he was the best player on the court in a game that had nicoley Okich, that had Sga. Right like, Chet's taking over and

dominating games in a way that we didn't see last season. And I do feel bad for chetting a little bit. Man. You talk about the Wembe Chet thing. This isn't going anywhere, man, this is going to be a debate for the next all their careers. These guys are basically going to be, you know, battling one two and look, man, it just sucks. 00:30:09 Speaker 3: I want to if you're in a debate, you're in a good spot. 00:30:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. That is a good point, man, if we're even having these conversations, it is. But I don't want to just like, let you know, either overshadow the other. Like they're two special, special guys, and I don't want to take I don't take anything away from them. But the the polish that I think we're seeing from Chet is enough for me to put him over Wemby right now. Man. I think it's a mental thing with Wemby, and that is why I take Chet, because I think that's the measuring stick. I completely agree with you in the floor versus ceiling debate. I think Wemby would give you a better floor, but I think Chet is the better complimentary piece right now, where Wenby may frustrate you a little more. But these guys are both two of the best bigs on the planet already, Man, in basically year two. I know Chet's in you know, year three, but he knows his rookie season obviously, so they're both in year two. Chet's further along than I expected, Man. I thought it was gonna take him a little bit longer to fill out his frame to you know, to play with this kind of physicality. I thought it was gonna take a long time for Chet to, you know, just to get up to that kind of speed. And he's not. He's imposing himself on bog Man like. 00:31:23 Speaker 3: He's never feared physicality. I mean, for being like the skinniest dude on the planet. It's always stood out with him, I mean, so impressive against the Nuggets right Just how he's jostling for position with Jokic and he's poking out entry passes, and how he is attacking these guys right now, Like he is still gonna have his issues in terms of physicality, right, I can praise him for being a dog with Yokic, she still needs doubles basically every time down the floor. He needs a lot of help in that matchup. But I agree, I think he's doing even better with that and it's just a more aggressive chat. It's a chet who wants to have a star impact on both ends every single night. It's a hell of a basketball player. Dude. Did you want to talk at all about some of the rumors about Giannis wanting out of Milwaukee and maybe OKC being a destination. 00:32:10 Speaker 1: I mean, we can touch on it right now. Like in the offseason, if you would come up with these rumors, I think maybe I would have had a different tune, like, oh yeah, let's go and give I don't know, let's give up some of the bench assets and movement. But to me, it's prosperous. 00:32:24 Speaker 3: Man. 00:32:24 Speaker 1: It's like the dumbest rumor I've heard, Like, why would you go and do that? The thunder don't need Jannest. That's the most important thing to me is it's like their title ceiling is here. They don't need to unlock. You know, if it changed there, if it made them a finals contender and they weren't one already, I'd be like, yeah, sure, you don't need to. You have an elite perimeter defense with elite depth, like, and Chet's only getting better, Like Giannis isn't gonna get any better, hey, man, cool, Giannice is hitting jump shots now, Like that has impressed me, Don't get me wrong. Giannis has taken mid range jumpers and hitting post turnarounds and stuff, and I'm like, wow, Chet's only getting better. Yiannis really can't get that much better. And considering Giannis's injury history, considering the Thunders timeline, they don't need him. Like, yeah, I think if you were giving up Chet Holmer and you're stupid man, Like, if we were doing a let's think about it this way, Carson, if we were doing an asset leader board right, a league wide redraft, if we were taking just starting the league from scratch, you were gonna draft your team for the future. I think the no brainer number one overall pick would be Wimby correct number two or you know, there's a handful of guys, right. I think Yokic is still an intriguing option. I think Luca is still a very intriguing option. I think Sga is an intriguing option. Rounding at out top top five is probably Chet Holmer. Chet is in that top ten to top five guys that are going off the board in a league wide fantasy draft. They're not just giving that away, man. Like, No, again, if the Thunder weren't title contenders already, maybe I would entertain it. I think it would be like the dumbest thing ever if you gave up Chet. 00:34:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there's any reason for them to do it regardless, like you say, I mean, they're a clear top two title contender, and you definitely couldn't in a million years give up Chat. We saw our buddy Drew from Pick a Side tweet about like the Thunder would they do it? Anyways? If they did have to include Chet, they'd have to be legitimately brain dead, legitimately brain dead, and Sam Presty is very far from brain dead. But to give up a twenty two year old who is a perfect fit for you in terms of what he brings offensively with spacing at the four of the five, and what he brings is one of the best defensive anchors on the planet, who is getting exponentially better, who was on a rookie contract still, who doesn't have Yiannis's injury concerns of not having been healthy for the last two postseasons. I mean, to give that up you would be beyond saving. I mean, it'd be one of the most catastrophic front office decisions that we've ever seen. And there's no chance it happens. To be clear, there's just some chitter chatter, people talking, and I think the more common rumors that they do, like a Jadub and Hartenstein thing, I still wouldn't do it. I still wouldn't say, don't mess with it, don't give up Jadab. Your timeline is set up

for you to be a dynasty. 00:35:18 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you'd be giving up seven potential championship rings for one man that Mattho math to me. 00:35:24 Speaker 3: No, seven wow, logan wow. Since the Russell Celtics, they're gonna rack. 00:35:29 Speaker 1: Up the modest dynasty, it's gonna be the greatest dynasty of all time. 00:35:33 Speaker 3: I don't know about seven man, but I definitely think a few is in the cards, and Chat is arguably the most important piece of that. I mean, I think that he and Shae are both dudes who have very clear top five ceilings. Shae is there, I think Chet's going to get there, and that is so terrifying for the league. But Logan, we mentioned Shay and he's actually been part of a little discourse that I've been seeing around quite a bit recently. Lots of talk about guys like SGA, guys like Anthony Edwards dramatically upping their three point volume. Some people saying to sort of try to acquiesce to just the standard in the league today, which is that you have to be taking only the most analytically favorable shots. You have to be taking a high volume of threes from beyond the arc. What is your take on those guys upping their volume from deep? Do you think that is counterproductive for them? 00:36:28 Speaker 1: Not necessarily to provide some context, SDA last year is at three point six three pointers attempted per game, just under four. He's at eight point three right now per game, and on the other hand, was around seven last year, six point seven threes per game. He's almost doubling that. He's taking thirteen point three per game this season. And where I fall on it is, I don't look at this as like an overarching thing where you can say on the season what they should do. I look at it as more of a game to game, possession to possession. If you're hitting them, keep shooting them, feed the hot hand, you know, I look at it like a general feel thing with these guys. They definitely raise their scoring, their potential scoring ceiling by taking these threes. Right, we always talk about it on the show. Three is worth more than two. Right, They're just more valuable shots if you hit them. It's a feel thing, you know. If you open the game and you're two or four from deep, all right, dip your you know, go from dipping your toes in the water. Maybe you put your whole foot in there, and we see what happens, and maybe you dive in and get your whole body wet. 00:37:32 Speaker 3: But maybe there's a sea monster. Maybe sea monster eats your foot. 00:37:36 Speaker 1: True, that's not a bad uh, you just that's not a bad analogy. 00:37:41 Speaker 3: You just don't know. 00:37:42 Speaker 1: But if you're not hitting them, you just got to move off of it, right, Like, if you're not hitting those shots, get off of it, get downhill because those are still the biggest weapons of an SBA's game, and it's biggest weapon is his rim pressure. The fact that he can get downhill at will. Nobody can stop him, and he could be potentially the greatest rim pressure of this generation. Like that is how great Ant is. And so I'd say, when ann is starting to feel himself get cold, stop shooting him man. And again, I think it depends just situationally and what the game is like like in a tight game, in a grimy game, I want you getting downhill. That's your biggest strength for SGA. If you're not hitting him, if it's a grimy, tight game, I want you getting downhill, slamming on the brakes and working out of the mid range where I know you're buttered. I ain't got to worry about your shot. So I have no problem with they're upping their volume Carson. Again, they're raising their scoring ceiling. They just have the potential to score more points on a game to game basis. But getting downhill is still what makes both of these guys special. They're two of the best interior finishers in basketball, and SGA is one of the best. I think he is the best inside the arc scorer in all of the NBA. When we're talking about every spot inside the arc, it's SGA, and I don't know if there's anybody else that's on the level maybe Jokic, but again, I think there's even more scoring versatility from everywhere inside the arc with SGA, So I don't have an issue with them attempting more. But I think it's a general feel thing. If they're knocking them down, keep shooting them. If they're missing them, get off of it quick, you know. So maybe it's a little bit of a cop out answer, but that's how I feel. I think it's a feel thing on a game to game basis. 00:39:27 Speaker 3: I actually view the three point volume leaps from these two guys pretty differently. I kind of put them in different categories. And it's taking thirteen three is a game that's too much. And as you said, this is a special downhill guard who, by the way, last year was one of the least efficient volume pull up shooters in basketball, so unbelievable rim pressure and finisher at the rim. Last year an inefficient pull up shooter, and right now he is shooting the shit out of it and that's great. But even if he has taken a real leap as a pull up shooter, thirteen three is a game is too much. And the reason for that is that positive outcomes happen when ant attacks the basket right. Even if he's making his pull up threes at let's say a more reasonable right thirty seven percent clip or whatever, that is great for him. That's a really important weapon to have in his arsenal. Guess what, the defense a lot of times is still gonna feel like you're letting them off the hook if you are settling for a pull up jumper as opposed to getting downhill. Be that to finish yourself, be that to draw a foul, be that to collapse the defense and create a quality shot for a teammate. Like that is where he is at his most dangerous. And I get that the spacing in Minnesota is an ideal, and so maybe he feels a little bit of pressure to extend his game out and not have to drive into crowded paints. I do think if he were to focus on really expanding his offensive

arsenal this offseason going into this season, he would have been better serve trying to build out a floater game, Like That's the thing that I've always wanted to see from Ant ever since he was a prospect, that he just hasn't had that touch from floater range, and the mid range jumper can really be going for him at times. But it's a really important thing to have out of pick and roll right, to have that intermediate game, and the floater is the best way to do it. And we saw him putting up some floaters in preseason, but haven't seen it at all in the regular season. He has a superpower and it's not three point shooting. And this is something that we've seen with dearon Fox that we've talked about. This is something we've talked about even with Luka Doncic, who is such a great pull up shooter that he can get away with it more. But these guys are all at their best when they are playing downhill, when they are getting two feet in the paint and they are either facilitating or they are scoring. Again, Luca's just in a different category as an offensive player that he can get away with it more. But Ant needs to be consistently downhill and super aggressive. Pull up three is crucial. Pull Up three is super valuable. It is by no means the foundation of his game. It should not be for SGA, though I feel differently, And the reason I feel differently is this feels like an experiment from SGA, and I sort of put Sga in a different category from Ant in that Ant is still so young and is still so very much building out his game and his identity as a superstar. Sga is a Stamp top five guy, and you mentioned as an inside the arc scorer, the most complete on the planet with his short mid range game, what he can do out of isolation, out of pick and roll, what he does as a driver. To me, Jokic is the best score inside the arc because he's the most unstoppable. But Sga is the most complete inside the arc scorer. So if he's just looking at this situation and saying, Okay, we're the best team in the West, we are running teams over. We're twenty fourth in offensive rating right now, and we haven't played a competitive basketball game because we are that absurd defensively, and with Chet playing like this, with lou Dort shooting how he's shooting right now, we can just survive off nights. We can live with me taking a couple more pull up threes per game, even if I'm missing them. In long term, there is upside there. I mean, if you get a Shay who was a true high level three level score, most effective driving guard in basketball, last year, most effective short mid range guard in basketball last year, and a legitimately good volume pull up three point shooter. I mean, that does take him up another level, and it also would be particularly valuable now that you're introducing Hartenstein into the mix here, and that's a really good basketball player. But that is a non shooter. And the one question with this OKC team is just do they have enough three point shooting to beat Boston. This is the best defense in the league, they're oozing with talent. Offensively, they have numerous real creators and a superstar, But that three point shooting I think is the one question, and if SGA can provide more of that, that's a positive for this team. So with ant I'm more worried that like that could be the direction that he's going, right, I don't want to be overly reactive to it. I don't think it's like a huge deal, But again I view him as still being more in the formative stages of who he is, Whereas it's like with SGA, I just think he's trying to add another wrinkle, and if it isn't working, I don't think he's going to force the issue, especially not in games that really matter, and the thunder are so great that they have a little margin for him to experiment. But I feel like this is all just part of a narrative that has been very prominent early in the season, ever since Opening Night, which is that everybody in the league is trying to play the same, everybody looks the same, it's all about just jacking up threes. Everybody's take after Opening Night, or at least a lot of people's take, was everybody's just gonna mimic the Celtics. Now, right, everybody's gonna try to put up sixty threes a game. First of all, that's foolish because they can't. Right, the Celtics don't just jack up sixty three is a game. They are the best in basketball at creating advantages, at playing the drive and kick game to get open shots for their shooters, and they are also just a better shooting team than everybody else in basketball. But it's that creation element as much as the shooting skill that sets them apart. And I just don't think it's an accurate representation of where the league is at. Look at how OKC creates offense. Right, I talk about Sja trying to up his three point volume, but that's not a high volume three point shooting team. They dominate really in the interior and in the mid range, right, and they have versatile offensive creators on their roster. Look at Denver, one of the lowest three point volume shooting teams that has a post up hub as the foundation of their offense. They play totally different than a lot of these other good offenses. Look at Indiana, right, I mean the pace that they play with, the ball movement that they play with, they play a totally different style. Look at the Lakers, Look at the Warriors with their motion offense, right, everything that they do with split actions and off ball movement like these are all dramatically different approaches. And just because we aren't seeing like the same mid range vault vol you know, doesn't mean that we aren't seeing variety around the league. And I actually think in terms of individual skill sets, we have more variety than maybe ever before because of what you get from Chet Holmgren, Victor wi Manyama, right, the seven footers who can handle and shoot the ball and play make it a high level. Right. I mean you don't see fifteen Yonis Valancunises around the league anymore

so, I understand that teams are favoring a certain shot profile, but it's not to a t and the ways that they get there are different. And the superstars that we have in the league today are all these super distinct unicorns. I just don't like that narrative. I feel like it's just unnecessarily negative. It's not really true. The Celtics aren't ruining the NBA. Other people can't do what they do, Like, yeah, when they do put up sixty threes, that's not my favorite product. I still like watching it more than you know, the twenty eighteen Rockets when they were putting up fifty threes a night, because there is more movement, there is more ball movement within the offense. Basketball is great, man. Basketball is in a great spot. And that's kind of a tangent from what we were just talking about. But I do think it's true. And some of this discourse has been annoying me a little. 00:47:11 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're just reading tweets from people who don't like basketball or people who don't watch basketball. 00:47:17 Speaker 3: Like I think it's a lot of people, some prominent people are saying this. 00:47:22 Speaker 1: Again, I don't know, man, I don't know how you could feel. I was just I'm glad you brought up Denver. Denver was gonna be my counterpoint as I was going to go. The team that won the title the year before Boston literally played the exact opposite style. Now, it's similar in the fact that the ball movement is great, that they're creating advantages, that they're drawing double teams, and of course moving defenses around and creating high shot quality. 00:47:42 Speaker 3: But true for every great offense in NBA history. 00:47:45 Speaker 1: Exactly, they're not all shooting frees. I don't know, man, it's again, I think it's hater stuff. Man. I think it's just people who I don't know don't like basketball. 00:47:55 Speaker 3: Bro. 00:47:56 Speaker 1: Like, I don't feel that way at all. And like you said, dude, I just think the league's more talent. And again, we're just smarter about basketball than we've ever been before. The two most valuable shots in basketball or a shot at the rim or a three point shot, and so, oh my god, teams are trying to manufacture those shots at the highest level. Boo. Who would have thought, you know, like shocker, you know, they want to be the most efficient, teams want to create efficient offense. Yeah, huh, I never would have thought, it's that's ridiculous to me. I mean, back to our original point, I do think Ant's going to be one of the best pull up jump shooters in basketball one day. And the reason I say that is he works on that in the offseason. Every workout or practice video I see from Aunt is him hucking deep pull up threes, deep pull up mid range shots. Like it's clearly like a focal point of his to get better at that. But the one thing that I really agree with you on when I'm playing basketball, for example, is a defender against a guy who's really good at getting to the rim, I do look at as a victory when he takes a jump shot, if he hits it or if he misses it, if I force that guy because I'm gonna play off of him. I'm gonna give him space at the line or you know, at the three point line, or in the mid range. I'm gonna load up my back foot because I want to contest the jumper and I want to you know, I don't want to just gift him a free jumper, but I'm gonna give him a little bit of a cushion because the worst case scenario is if he gets a shot at the rim, because I know that's either gonna be an easy layup for him or he's gonna collapse the defense and he's gonna create a wide open shot on the back end for somebody else. I do agree with you on that point. He is letting defenses off a hook off the hook to an extent, because that's probably how defense is in the league. Feel when Anthony settles for a three, they feel like they've won on an individual possession. I'm always gonna feel that about a guy with those kind of physical tools. If he takes a jumper, that's a win for my defense. And again, I think it's just about striking that balance. Sure, I think it's about finding the perfect medium. Betw qween they're giving me this look, I'm gonna make them pay. But also I'm going to weaponize my physical tools. Yeah, but I think in a couple of years, I think And is going to be really deadly at doing this. Man, he just it seems like he really works on that jump shot a lot. And I think I don't think thirty seven percent or higher is ridiculous to expect from Aunt to be doing that at consistent level. I wouldn't count on him reaching forty percent. Man, I'm really confident and eventually being really efficient at those kind of shots. 00:50:30 Speaker 3: You're talking about from three overall are specifically on pull up threes, pull. 00:50:34 Speaker 1: Up jumpers in general. I think forty percent pull up threes and jumpers, I think is a really an attainable number for Ant. I mean, he just he works on that shot so consistently. 00:50:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about forty percent on pull up threes. Forty percent on pull up threes is a crazy, crazy number. I mean, that would put him among the elite of the elite. But I do think he's continuing to get better at it, and I think that that's important. And this is just very natural as players age, right, they do can consistently across the board become less consistently downhill. Right, It's just easier on you physically, it takes less of a toll, and as you take these marginal steps back athletically, you just can't exert that same sort of volume rim pressure. So that's fine. It's just be aware of your fundamental greatest strength and look and is so confident and he goes on these stretches where it's just terrifying for a defense, right, I mean the twenty four point quarter that we saw last week in the first which was overwhelmingly on pull up threes. Like, he's absolutely capable of that. It's just not his greatest strength as a player. But yeah, I think back to the whole big

picture league thing. We hear all these conversations about like the mid range is dead and the post up is dead, and these things just aren't true. It's just bad players aren't doing them anymore. Right, You're not getting a ton of Derek Favors post ups. No hate to Derek Favors, he was fine, But like stars are doing these things. Stars are shooting mid range jumpers, stars are posting up because they're actually really good at them, and we're just seeing less bad offense. And I think that that's a good thing in my opinion. It creates for a very clean, very impressive product, and skill around the league has never been higher. Does your favorite NBA player have what it takes to be crowned King of the Court? Find out at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. 00:52:35 Speaker 1: DraftKings is offering one million dollars a day in bonus bets for the first ten days of the NBA season. That's ten million dollars in bonus bets. Here's how to shoot your shot. Opt in and get a daily NBA Profit Boost token. Pick a pregame NBA player prop to boost. If that player leads the league that night in points plus rebounds plus assists, you win a share of the one million dollars in bonus bets. 00:52:59 Speaker 3: Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code Nerds that's code Nerds to win a share of one million dollars in bonus bets. If your player is King of the Court only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. 00:53:12 Speaker 2: Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in West Virginia visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In New York call eight seven seven eight open wire text hope and y four six seven three sixty nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino when resorting Kansas twenty one and over age varies by jurisdiction. Voyd and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issue ince See DKNG dot co slash Bball for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. 00:53:54 Speaker 3: All right, logan, let's rank some of these teams in the Southwest Division because it's a very interesting little pack that is forming. We have Dallas, and I think Dallas is in a different conversation than these other teams, even though they lost to Houston last night and they haven't looked great to start the year. Luca has been pretty bad, but they're still in a different tier in my opinion. So how would you rank Memphis, Houston and New Orleans? 00:54:19 Speaker 1: If Houston at the top? 00:54:21 Speaker 3: Wow? 00:54:21 Speaker 1: And Houston to me, I just love what they got going on. Man. I love the culture and identity of this team, but more importantly, I love the personnel. There are so many long, rangy athletic defenders on this team top to bottom. Man Like hell, dude, like we didn't even talk about Like I know

you brought him up. I think towards the end of our our preview content before the season started, like Tarry Easton is balling, man, Like this guy will have great horners and can go on and defend guys. But like at the top, there's just so many guys that like Houston's a mismatch man, it's hard to he sometimes with a team with this much juice, man, when they can fly around the court like this, I just think that the most athletic. I think they've got the most total talent out of these two teams, the least amount of liabilities. And this is the one part. Tell me if you disagree with this. I think they've got the best two top offensive creators out of these teams. And what I mean by that is like Green and Sengoon. And I don't mean this individually because I think Zion and Jaw are right, like they're the best one guys. But from the top two, do you think that the Pills or the Grizzlies have who do you think is better? 00:55:40 Speaker 3: I think that John Bain is the best offensive duo, and I think that I would still take Zion and Bi as an offensive duo over Jalen and s Shengoon. Although the fit is an ideal. I just think Zion is, you know, multiple tiers above anybody in the Rockets duo. 00:55:57 Speaker 1: I agree. I think Zion and jar are both out of that tier, but together. 00:56:02 Speaker 3: I think really good. Man. 00:56:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, Desmond Bane's cool, he's a good player. He's he's he's gotten better play making two man and ball handling where he was kind of short his first couple of years. But in combination, man like I think that Green. I'm waiting. I'm kind of waiting for Jalen like the I'm kind of waiting for the falloff, just because I don't know if he can keep shooting at this rate, Like he's making five threes a night on forty one percent from deep. I'm kind of waiting for that to plummet. But Semngoon's been struggling, and I really trust him to get back on track. I think he's under forty percent from the field right now, Like that's just uncharacteristic of him. But it starts with the defense, and I trust the Rockets night a night in night out to be a good defense. Memphis has been struggling on that end. I expect them to figure it out more. New Orleans has unfortunately gotten bit by the injury bug. I don't think they're gonna figure it out defensively at all this year. I don't like the vibes of this team. I don't like the energy. I don't like the personnel, I don't like the spacing. I don't like New Orleans. I think New Orleans is at the bottom of this for me. Dejante Murray's out, Trey Murphy's out, HERB Jones, CJ mccollumer. Right now, Eve Missy has a hip injury, so obviously, right now I think they're at the bottom. But when you're healthy, I really don't like the spacing. And this is what I said preseason. You've got Zion, Bi McCollum, and Murray. They're all isolation guys. First, they all prefer the mid range over three. None of them are defensive minded. And I laughed out loud during one of these games when they

go and they brought in Daniel Tye because they like that he can space the floor a little bit. Oh yeah, Daniel Tye renowned floor spacing. Big. It's a clunky fit. I don't think these guys just I don't think they work together. And oh my god, dude, the effort has been appalling, Like I hate beating that dead horse. The energy in the effort category, New Orleans has just been horrendous in and I think that falls at Willy Green's feet. And I like Willie Green. I think he's a good coach. But Zion's not playing hard when these guys have been available, Like, there's just an effort category that New Orleans is missing to me. So when I couple the spacing with the fit, with the energy and the defense that I've been getting from New Orleans, I think they're definitively at the bottom. And I say that when I think that they have the best offensive number one out of all three of these teams, Zion to me, is clearly the best guy. But again, it's all in tandem. Altogether, New Orleans is at the bottom. From the Memphis, I think we'll figure it out. They have to defend and rebound better. That should have been the backbone of this team. They're a league average defensive rebounding team. And first, I think Zach Edy just has to play more. I get it, he's been in foul trouble. He's averaging three point four fouls per game, but he's only getting seventeen minutes a night, So he's got to clean that out, clean that up, and he's got to be available more. Also, Jake Laavia has to play less. Taylor Jenkins. Jake Laarravia sucks. 00:59:06 Speaker 3: Dude, kinds crazy right now for the Grizzlies because they're down Vince, They're down Canard. Now, Smart's hurt, Bangers hurt last game, John missed the game. Triple jamis two games and they're playing their best dudes like twenty five twenty seven minutes a night. That's just the weirdest thing with the Grizzlies right now. We're getting as many bench minutes as we are starring. Yes, but that's not gonna stay the case. That's just weird. That's just early season weirdness. 00:59:30 Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I have two guys that I want to stop playing in this division. Jake Laavia. Stop playing him. He sucks. He's a defensive liability. That dude is slow. Man, That dude is slow. He gets blown by all game in the Rockets. Stop playing Dylan Brooks all together. Guys like, dude, if you're gonna play a wing that can't shoot, play a men. Thompson, just like, send Dylan Brooks to the gulag Man. You've got so many good young athletic wings here. I like more and more. I like a man Thompson more. I like Tary eastanmore. Dylan Brooks just pisses me off. Man, stop playing him, Like. 01:00:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, he makes me mad. He makes me very mad, especially because the Rockets have so many good young players, and it's like he needs barely getting on the floor, right, A man who I love is still just getting like twenty minutes a night. And Dylan Brooks still has this hard headedness offensively and he puts up shots that he just should

And he's a bad offensive player. Still really good defensively though, like really really good defensively, and we can't pretend that his shooting and Amend's are equivalent. Right, He'll put up five threes a game, and he might make thirty five percent of them, as. 01:00:40 Speaker 1: He might make one of them. Yeah, he might make one of those threes. Yeah, how much? Let me ask you this, how much of Dylan's defensive value are you getting with a Man? A lot? 01:00:51 Speaker 3: I think probably eighty five percent. I would say I think that a Men is really good. He's a freak athlete. He's not quite the insane person that Dylan Brooks is though. I mean, Dylan Brooks really prides himself on making you work every possession defensively, and a men, young guy, he's just not quite there yet. I think a ceiling is higher than Dylan Brooks defensively. 01:01:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, you so. Do you like the fact that Brooks will at least attempt the threes? Do you think that helps Houston space? 01:01:20 Speaker 3: I do. I think that that's good for an offense, Like sometimes he takes it too far. I don't want him jacking up threes, but yeah, I do think it helps to at least keep a defense. Honest, listen, I want to see them both playing. I mean, there are definitely stretches where I think a man is a better, more impactful player because of what he's doing on the glass, because of what he's doing with him playmaking, what he's doing with his athleticism, and I love him. Then I think the ceiling is the roof for a man. I also get, though, that you're playing alongside a non shooting center for a team that has shooting as a question mark overall, and so I can see the argument for Brooks at least being out there and taking the threes. 01:01:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just is a little much for me with Dylan when you have this many good young talent wins. I don't know, twenty twenty six minutes. 01:02:08 Speaker 3: Twenty seven minutes. Yeah, I'm with you. 01:02:09 Speaker 1: I'm with you, and you're given Cam more burn. You're giving the men more burn. You're given Tary, and like that's my I like Tari a lot too, man, I give Tari solid burn, and you know, I open up minutes for Red. I just I don't like Dylan Brooks. I know eventually they're gonna get off this money and he's gonna be gone, but I would play him less. So it's really close. I don't want to act like there's a massive gap between all of these teams. I really think that they're all neck and neck. But I like Houston. I like Houston a lot, and I'm waiting for the offensive bottom to fall out because I think that Green is just shooting above his means right now. I can't expect him to keep this up. It's just it's hard. When you're taking that many tough shots, you're you're just inevitably gonna miss some more of them. But I really like what Houston's got, man. I think they've got the best depth out of these teams, the healthiest right now. And I do like their top two offensive players. I think Green and Sengoon can carry them in a way that I don't know some of these other teams can't. But I get that Memphis and New Orleans aren't healthy right now. But I like Houston in the preseason. I still like Houston. I've been I've been really disappointed with Memphis, though. Man, I thought Memphis would have started off this season a little bit better. 01:03:21 Speaker 3: There is no question that Houston has been the best of these three teams, the most impressive of these three teams. I'm thinking long term, though, and I'm not taking injuries into account. I'm thinking full strength. How much do I like you. 01:03:36 Speaker 1: And I can still take this? 01:03:37 Speaker 3: This is to take them the same order for me, Okay, I think Memphis is kind of a clear number one. I mean, I do like Houston, and Memphis had been pretty shitty before that Bucks game. I just think the rotation stuff is the biggest problem right now. When you're down two of your best bench players in Vince Williams Junior and Luke Canard, and you're playing your stars twenty five twenty seven minutes a night and they have missed games like that, to me is just the biggest part they're not playing their best players. Shout out to Scotti, Pippen Junior. He's been solid, but this bench just isn't very good right now. And this is a super small sample size, but it's kind of a funny stat. In fifty three minutes with John Triple J on the floor together, the Grizzlies have a plus thirty three net rating. Like, I just think their big three is still the best in this division. Triple J has honestly been really effective as a score when he's been on the floor. Jaw hasn't been efficient as a scorer, but his playmaking has been outstanding. I'm with you. I do think that Edie can play a bit more here to help solidify the glass. Not a ton, but you know, twenty four to twenty five minutes a night per thirty six, he's given you eighteen and ten. I mean he's productive, right. He is a really tough matchup for teams offensively and defensively. I do think that like he's running the floor hard both ways. He's slow footed, right, but I think that he's had some good defensive moments. I think that he's fine there. I thought he had a rough debut, but since then he's been pretty solid. They're just one hundred percent in the figuring things out face to me right now. And I'm not the biggest Memphis guy. I've never been a believer in their playoff aspirations, but I do still think they're the most established team in the division, and they are really good at the top of the roster, and they've got pretty good depth. They're just really weird right now. I will say the Bucks are an embarrassment if I can just speak on that for a moment. And we're not gonna do another full segment on them, because we talked about them two days ago and how we both thought that their bad start was real. But defensively, they're just a disaster. They're poorly coached. Giannis is talking about, oh, you know, maybe I'll be traded now

there's the rumors that he will want to be traded. They're un sirious. You know. I thought they were the fourth best team in the East before the season. I gave them too much credit, but Memphis put a beat down on him, and Memphis needed to put that beat down on them. So I think Grizzlies one. I still have the Pelicans too, And this is hard because of the health. The Pelicans could easily miss the playoffs, they could miss the play in just because of how they're getting decimated by health. Right now, I'm just not quite moved off of New Orleans yet because you're talking about not liking the fit, and I'm never liked the fit, but the talent has always been there, and the talent hasn't been on the floor, and the reality is just without Trey Murphy out there and last game and a half without Herb Jones, they're just not that good. Like they desperately need those skill sets. That's what we've talked about. Loving about this team is Zion and those two three and D wings, Herb with the all world defense, Tray with the really special shooting of the basketball. That's the foundation of this team. You can talk about de Jontay Murray, you can talk about CJ McCollum, you can talk about bi. It is that combination of Zion and that sort of wing a defense and shooting that you get. And they haven't played well. The dudes who have been on the floor of Zion has kind of sucked. Except for the game that I actually watched in person against the Warriors. It's really crazy how much he's relying on his touch shot making this year compared to getting all the way to the rim. Last year we did this out, I think sixty six percent of his shots came in the restricted area. This year, it's it's in like the low thirties. And basically the entire discrepancy is him trading shots at the rim for touch paint shots, right shots in the paint still but outside the restricted area. And he has good touch, but he hasn't been great on those shots, and he hasn't been great finishing early this year. He's been dealing with a lot of crowded paints. I just think everything's kind of gone wrong for them so far. And I expected them from the jump to have a clunky ass regular season, right because the fit is so weird. But then post All Star Game, you start rounding in the form and you start finding the right lineup combinations, the right combinations of shooting and athleticism and hanging in their defensively and finding the right balance a small ball versus playing your centers and playing eve Mec a little bit more than Tye because of his athleticism and rim protection. Like this team was gonna have as rough an adjustment period as anybody in basketball. And that's just being exacerbated by the fact that de Jonte went out and now CJ's out two to three weeks and Herb is out two to three weeks. That's bad and they are relying on Zion Zion Williamson Logan to stay healthy. They desperately need him to stay healthy for the next stretch or their season is over because you can't be down five year six best players. But I still do think that there's a talent ceiling here that I'm not quite sold on Houston reaching. At this point. There's one big swing factor for Houston in my opinion. 01:08:29 Speaker 1: I do just want to shout out the boy, Jordan Hawkins real quick, man. I've been really impressed as Jordan Hawkins minutes since his years started, and I'm glad he's correcked this rotation like Buttersmooth, pull up jump shooter, man good shooter from behind the arc. He's been the one guy in New Orleans that I've been impressed with this with early stretch, I just don't know if New Orleans knows what they have again. Man, I just I would trade Brandon Ingram, I would get whatever pieces. I think that if they went all in on a core of Zion Williamson with herd Jones, with Trey Murphy and one, I would keep CJ. I think CJ works here as a pick and roll partner with Zion as a mid range jump shooter. I still like CJ. Like I think he can work, and I think he's a guy that you would struggle to get requisite value back for just because he's older. Right, So I would deal Brandon Ingram, I would deal de Jonte Murray, and I'd see if I could get another five another athletic guy or another floor space er, right, somebody that can either give me minutes with me SI off the floor as an athletic defender and rim protector, or is a guy who can actually space the floor and I rock with that man Alvarado off the bench, Jordan Hawkins off the bench. You find another defensive wing. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Pelicans are you know, I don't think they're going to make a deep playoff run or anything like that. But to me, that's the best fit for this team is leaning in on Zion being your number one off defensively in building a really good defense around him, because that's the one thing that I don't know if Zion is ever going to be like fully engaged defensively. We've seen it like in individual games when he chooses to be locked in, but consistently he's disengaged. 01:10:15 Speaker 3: But they managed to be top five in defensive rating last year. 01:10:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, So why is Houston at the bottom for you? What do you really not? Is it the offense? Is it Jalen Green? Is it Sengoon? Like, what's the Why is Houston at the bottom for you? 01:10:31 Speaker 3: It's really close And like I said, they've clearly been more impressive than these other two teams. Their ability to move up this list, to me, really does hinge on Jalen Green and how sustainable what he's doing is. I've been very impressed with him early this year. I mean, he's averaging almost twenty eight a night on fifty seven percent true shooting. And you watch the guy and this has been the case ever since he was a prospect. He's one of the most natural born scorers I've seen, one of the most gifted scores I've ever seen. Nobody can stay in front of him, right, I mean his first step is lethal, and his finishing at the rim has been nasty this year. Right, He's a really a special athlete,

period, point blank, and he's shooting the shit out of the ball from deep right now. He's making forty one percent of his eleven three point attempts per night. But here's the reason that I want to hold out before calling this a leap. Like I've done with Paolo, like I've done with Chet, like I've been with Mobile, where those guys have the statistical production leap, I'm also seeing skill set leap. I'm also seeing aggression, shot selection right, things that are inherently to me sustainable. Right now, the biggest difference for Jalen Green this year versus last year is just insane three point shooting. And it feels like he can get to the rim at will because he's so hard to stay in front of, but he doesn't. He's taking a little more shots at the rim this year than last year, but not a significant difference. And he's been really bad from mid range, and he's been really bad from float to range, and he's taking a decent amount of shots there. So he's shooting forty five percent from inside the arc right now, which is bad, and I just worry that this super fun nuclear stretch we're getting from him right now could be a little bit like March of last year, where he has an insanely hot month from beyond the arc and is super aggressive, but he's just bombing away from deep and is nailing them. And then he comes back to earth hard in April of last year, when he averaged like fifteen a night, super inefficiently, because as skilled a three point shooter as he is, he takes tough shots off the bounce, and for that reason, he's a thirty four percent guy from deep in his career. So ability has never for a second been a question with Jalen Green. He's so gifted, but his shot selection has consistently been a real problem. It's consistently been some of the worst in the league, frankly, and I'm not seeing big improvement there yet. And I'm not seeing improvement as a playmaker or defensively, which are the areas where he could round out his game and become more consistently impactful if that three ball isn't just falling at a crazy rate. So I just want to wait on that before making a move with Houston because I do think the teams are more established in terms of proven veteran high end talents. I do believe in this Rockets defense, I do believe in their death I do believe in their athleticism. It's really just that offense and Jalen Green's role in elevating that offense, which he has so far. I just need to see more. Like, in no way am I set in stone on this. I mean New Orleans and Houston. I'm already so so close, and one of these teams is trending up and the other one right is giving us more reason for concern. But I just don't feel like we've really seen the Pelicans yet. And I feel like, unfortunately, this Jalen Greens stretch probably isn't quite sustainable. 01:13:54 Speaker 1: My thing is might not be sustainable to this level. But I think the Rockets offense can be just good enough in tandem with how good this defense and how athletic they are and how good they are rebounding. 01:14:05 Speaker 3: So do you think that's why they're improved offense from last year? If Jalen Green is close to the same player he was last year, Because they're the number twenty offense in basketball last year. 01:14:17 Speaker 1: I don't think it's like a meaning if they played Reed Sheppard more than might move me. I think that they need, you know, more shooting at spacing. No, I don't think it's a dramatically different offense. But I don't think they need to be. I think this defense is really good. I think they've got a ton of act I think they're just a mismatch with a lot of a lot of teams. So many teams can't match what they have athletically, and I like that as a backbone of a team. And I really like Emo Udoka as the head coach of this young group. Man. I like what the Rockets are putting together. I know, I don't think they need to be I don't think they need to be an elite offense to be a good team. 01:14:52 Speaker 3: No, they don't need to be an elite offense. I just think the Pelicans can still be good right as clucky as it is, because again, it's about the specific lineup you can deploy. You look at it all together, you look at their starting five and it's like, oh, that's weird, that doesn't work. But then what if you get a lineup that's dejent Dee Trey Herb Zion. Eas me see, what if you get a lineup that is Brandon Ingram Herb Trey Zion. You could go small there. You could have CJ in that lineup. Right, There's a lot of combinations where they can blend skill and athleticism and get some really, really good basketball players on the floor. I'm gonna hold out. I think it's gonna be ugly for a lot of the year for New Orleans, so that's just gonna kind of be the ride with them this year. I think it's gonna be ugly for a lot of the year, but I think that there's a ceiling in there that can still be topped into. I'm not the biggest New Orleans guy. I had them is in the play in I had them sneaking in through the play and into my actual playoff field. But I do think things are gonna look better for them. Let's talk football, Logan, because we did have some Thursday night action last night. The New York Jets take down the Houston Texans. Jets improved a three and six Texans fall to six and three. How worried are you about Houston after this game? Logan, I'm not. 01:16:12 Speaker 1: Worried about Houston. 01:16:13 Speaker 3: Really, I'm not really. 01:16:15 Speaker 1: I mean, I just think the Jets played better. The Jets played desperate. This is a really desperate football team. No, I think Houston's gonna be fine. I mean, I do think you saw the offense lose a little bit without Digs, right, there was just one more, one less guy that New York had to account for. But the thing to me was CJ wasn't missing these throws by much. Man, every throw that he was off on it was by like a yard or two, where the timing or the accuracy is just off by a minor percentage. And I guess worried is all about in how you

perceive the Texans. I don't think the Texans are a real contender. I never have. I have not this entire season. I think they're gonna run away with the AFC South because it's such a dumpster fire at the bottom of their division and they're either going to get bounced in the first round of the playoffs or they'll win the first round and they'll get bounced by a real contender. I don't think the Texans are a real contender, and so if you do, yes, I would be worried because you just got beat by the New York Jets. Yeah, that would be concerning to me. But my expectations have never been that the Texans are going to go win the Super Bowl or win the AFC, So in that regard, I'm not worried. But I guess the Jets season isn't dead yet. They were two and six coming into this game. It's the new most important game of their season. Every single game leading up to this one has been of Courson. I thought we were in store for an all time disaster. I was enjoying it quite frankly. I was in my living room busting a move. I was dancing on Aaron Rodgers' metaphorical grave. I was having a grand ole time. In the first half. For the roughing the kicker penalty that extends the drive for Houston, Malachi Corley drops the ball at the goal. One is exit you immediately, man, dude? How does this happen? Man? I always think about Larry Fitzgerald and Barry Sanders and how they handle their business man. Every time they scored a touchdown. One those guys crossed the goal line. Two when they were done, they didn't celebrate because this isn't anything new to the Big Larry Fitzgerald. It's not anything new to Barry Sanders. They score a touchdown every game. They don't need to bust a move. They just hand the ball to the ref. Exactly what was that guy's name, Joseph Faria. Joseph Faria used to it. I wouldn't I wouldn't have been mad. That's his first carry, man, I think that was his first career TD. That lives an infamy. That's not going anywhere. Man. That is an all timer right there. I mean you see it in college sometimes. Obviously Deshaun Jackson did it. I just I can't leave that still happens, man, Like that's rule number one, bro get into the end zone in bust a move. But I thought that all that in tandem with the fact that Rogers was seven to fourteen with thirty two yards heading into the half back, I said, man, the Jets played with a reckless desperation. This was a team with their backs against the wall. They knew they needed to make it happen, and they did. I think Thomas Morse did, made Aaron Rodgers some of that Kanye Pepper water, and they got all fired up coming out of the second half man the Jets emerged from the darkness. They did it. All of their points came in the second half. They had three second half tds. Rogers ends this game going twenty two of thirty two with two hundred and eleven yards and three touchdowns, and they just generated clutch play after clutch play. You have first the absurd Garrett Wilson catch, before the Garrett Wilson catch where he one hands a slant route in a big situation, and then the one in the end zone. I was really impressed, obviously with the acrobatics, the way he palms the ball out of the year jumpman style. The thing I was most impressed with on that play was how he regained leverage against the corner. The corner has position on Wilson going into the end zone, and he jostles with him enough to get back in front of him to make that play. Just beautiful work from Garrett Wilson. Because Rogers throws that ball. That's only a ball that you throw if you really trust your receiver. It's one on one. He's got to make that play, and he does. But it's not just Wilson. Devontae Adams has a huge play on fourth and three where he just gets a huge release at the line of scrimmage, they get a clutch first down, they obviously gets the game winning TD. So I thought it was finally great plays coming together from the top two receivers. It was also bad coverage from Houston. Petrie got cooked. That was just really bad coverage from Houston as well. But the thing that also so stood out to me was the pass rush. Finally, his son Reddick is in play here, Carson c J. Shroud was pressured nineteen times on forty five dropbacks for eight sacks, for a forced fumble and a recovery. It wasn't just a son Reddick, it was will McDonald who has had a phenomenal year. Quinnon Williams was getting in the backfield. He had a phenomenal game, and I really think CJ. Stroud was bothered by the pressure. Eleven of thirty one hundred and ninety one yards gooseg on tds and turnovers. It was the lowest completion percentage c J. Stroud has ever recorded in his career, below forty percent. Like I said, he was just off target by every pass. But still the Texans had a chance in this game, and the Texans and Kaymi Fairbairn did Stroud zero favors fourth and one. Late in this game, Stingley gets in the legal contact penalty that extends the Jets drive that ends in a td Fairbairn. He miss two or three field goals in this game. I can't rery he misses two, right, yeah, missus two field goals. Still, that was crazy one the first kick, I understand it's a fifty six yarder after Stroud takes a sack. I honestly put that miss field goal more on Stroud because situationally, you just can't take a sack right there. You got to get rid of the football. You've got to make sure that it's a makeable field goal. And that is a makeable field goal for fair Baron. He's normally nails on fifty plus yarders, but that's a tough kick. Later in this game, he makes a deep field goal, they get the snapper penalty that extends the drive. You think, oh, maybe the Texans are going to score add and then he misses the thirty yarder. Comical stuff, man, comical stuff. 01:22:46 Speaker 3: Also, the Texans didn't do game. 01:22:48 Speaker 1: Classic classic blunder after blunder, injury after injury. Yeah, classic Thursday night football. 01:22:56 Speaker 3: Man. 01:22:56 Speaker 1: So I don't think the Texans did Stroud any favor in

tandem with Strout having a bad game. But yeah, this is a good game from the Jets and they needed this one. Man, their season would have been over if they had lost this one. But I don't know. I'm not moved off of the Texans after this game, and I'm not moved by the Jets after this. I don't really view either of these teams in a different light. I thought this was a very winnable game for Houston, and I thought this was a very losable game for New York. But I think New York was the more desperate team. They needed this one more and they got it done in this game. The one thing that I do think is different is the Jets pass rush with a sound reddick. I was, that's the one area of this team, and they got the ball to Adams and Wilson. Finally, that has to be the recipe for this team on offense. Duh, Right, you have two number one receivers, how we get them the football. Those are the two things that I thought was dramatically different for the Jets. In this game, the pass rush looked better and they were a little bit more effective at getting the ball to their playmakers. 01:23:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I thought that this was a good game from the Jets, and I mean, particularly, it's just in those big moments, right when you need a dude to separate, you've got two of them. And this is a good Texans defense. I mean, this is a ferocious Texans pass rush, and you have Derek Stingley, who I think is one of the elite corners in football. And there's just some incredible moments of playmaking for both Devonte and Garrett Wilson in this game, which is huge. That's the vision, right You've always known that your line is gonna suck if you're the Jets. Well that's been apparent since early in the season at least. It's been a parent that your run game is gonna suck. This was the vision. Get DeVonta and Garrett Wilson out there. Can we be an average offense and then can our defense carry us? And it did in this game. I mean, they should have put up twenty eight points to their credit, and I think the offense has really looked okay the last couple weeks and Rogers has been playing pretty well. I am worried about the Texans though, Logan and I've never viewed them as a true contender either, but I have viewed them as a pretty clear fourth team in the AFC. 01:24:54 Speaker 1: Right. 01:24:54 Speaker 3: My perspective has been, you have the Chiefs, Ravens, Bills, that's Tier one in the AFC. Then you have the Texans alone in Tier two. Then you have a wild week at race. 01:25:03 Speaker 1: Are we gonna get a pro Steelers take? Here from Carson. 01:25:05 Speaker 3: Logan, I think the Steelers might be better than the Texans, dude. I mean, they just have a gaping hole at one of the most important position groups on the field. I mean, they're flashing the stats in the broadcast. Their interior line has allowed the most pressures and they've allowed the most sacks in football this year. 01:25:24 Speaker 1: And they just lost Kenyan Green Oho not very good. 01:25:29

Speaker 3: But on the other side of the ball, they also they lose Will Anderson, dude, which would be huge because their pass rush is the greatest strength of their defense, and they're down their two best receivers. So this is a team that I didn't view as a true contender, but I thought was really, really good. Now they're losing some of their best football players. Diggs has done for the year. Nico Collins is gonna come back soon, so that's the good news, and I think that that will help this passing attack. But CJ has had two brutal statistical performances in the last three weeks, and I don't really put it on him. I mean, I don't think he's missed a lot. This game, he missed a couple throws pretty narrowly, but against the Packers, I mean, it's just like he didn't have time to throw and guys weren't separating with a shorthanded receiving corps. That's my biggest concern, just that CJ is gonna be under complete duress. And although this team has been better running the ball with Mixon, we've still seen them over the course of the year in a lot of third and lungs and CJ's done what he can to bail them out. But he's not a superhero man. As good as he is, he's not at that Josh Allen Lamar level of just I'm gonna cover up the holes on this offense and we're gonna be elite no matter what. That's my concern with Houston right now. And I do look at a team like Pittsburgh and I say, elite defensive foundation weekend week out, and that offense is playing better. And Russ has been good through his first two weeks obviously, and shout out to him. I think I underestimated what he could do in this offense. I definitely don't think there's a gap. I definitely don't think there's a gap because I could just see Pittsburgh's defense destroying that game and not even really giving CJ a chance. So we'll see. I mean, Nico will get out there, that'll help. But this isn't the Texans year. I think there are some people who saw the weapons they acquired in the offseason and wanted this to be their year. But I mean, even coming into this game, right they were six and two, but with a plus nine total point differential in the last two weeks had been really ugly for them. They escaped with a win against the Colts, but that was not a good game. They're not very good right now. I mean I really don't think they are. 01:27:30 Speaker 1: I mean, I think if Will Anderson is healthy, I think that's big. Hey, that's the big one to me. 01:27:36 Speaker 3: And. 01:27:39 Speaker 1: I don't know even as a Steelers fan. Don't get me wrong, the Steelers have moved up in my power rankings. I just don't know if I'm gonna be ready to put them in the top ten or anything like that. I'm still waiting. The one thing. 01:27:51 Speaker 3: I might be higher on the Steelers than you right now, Logan, I'm just waiting. 01:27:58 Speaker 1: You still do see how limited Russ is behind the line of scrimmage when pressure does get home. It has nothing to do with the defense. I know we're getting

out of the defense. It's just I'm waiting to see the Steelers play in a game with a different game script, and we have seen it in one game and the Steelers showed up. It's all about when the Steelers get punched in the mouth defensively and a team goes up on them big, and when the team needs to rally back. I do think we're a little bit better with Russ. I don't know. I have PTSD of the Steelers offense pooping their pants, so I'm kind of just waiting for the fall off. But the only difference to me is just the CJ. Stroud dynamic. I have such faith in CJ. Stroud carrying and putting an offense on his back in a way that I still don't wear. Russ, I think we're better. You might be higher on the Steelers than me, though. Man, the Steelers, I don't know if I can move them above the Textans just yet. Man, I'm still I don't know if I'm moved. 01:28:57 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not moving them above the Textan right. If Houston were to host a playoff game, not tomorrow because Nico Collins is out, but with Nico Collins healthy and if Will Anderson is okay, I would pick Houston. But they're in the same tier. Those two teams are in the same tier. I agree very colect agree with you. They're very close. And that's not how I would have felt coming into the year. So from that perspective, he's still dropping off. 01:29:25 Speaker 1: I'm still not ready to count the Steelers out from winning this division either. We do have a game up on Baltimore now since they've lost to Cleveland. Obviously, I think it's gonna come down to the two head to head games against Baltimore. Not to get on a big Steelers tangent here, but Steelers play Lamar Jackson better than any other team in the NFL, and so those will be the biggest two games on the schedule in determining the division. I think there's a real chance the Steelers could host a playoff game, and that does make a difference in my expectations. If the Steelers host a playoff game, I expect us to win it. That's a big advantage. 01:29:56 Speaker 3: Well. Also, the wild card teams suck in the AFC. I mean, unless true, you end up in the four or five drawing Baltimore, in which case I would definitely pick Baltimore. 01:30:07 Speaker 1: That would suck. That would suck. Man. 01:30:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I still think Baltimore is gonna win the division. But you're right, you got a game up. It's gonna come down, probably at least in part two those matchups head to head against Baltimore. For the Jets, Listen, they kept the door open. Good for them, as you say, I mean, for four weeks in a row, they've had the biggest game of their season. They went one in three in those big games. They are an OK football team, all right. If not for some kicking disaster classes, right, they could be five and four right now. I think they're average. I don't think they're bad. I think they're average, and their scheduled down the stretch is not the toughest. Right, They're gonna lose in Buffalo, I guarantee you that. And there's not

a lot of cupcake games here necessarily because the Dolphins with Tua are not a cupcake game. The Cardinals are not a cupcake game, the Cults are not a cupcake game. There's a lot like fifty to fifty games. So a couple of weeks ago, I was saying, you know, I still think the Jets of a very real chance to make the playoffs because the AFC Wildcard race is so shitty. It's not over over, but it's dark. You know, they're still in the darkness. They haven't escaped the darkness yet. They've maybe perhaps seen a little crack of light, but there's still a lot of darkness that they have to work their way through. Let's talk about the other story of the week in the NFL logan that we haven't touched on yet. Anthony Richardson benched after quite the statistical performance this past week in terms of completion percentage, started the game two for thirteen and ended up falling just short to the Texans bench for Joe Flacco. Do you think this is the right move. 01:31:45 Speaker 1: I'm conflicted. 01:31:47 Speaker 3: Talk to me, talk to me, let it all out. 01:31:53 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's the right move because it's a punishment. I don't think it's the right move long term. What I mean by that is I understand Stichen and the Colts like putting their foot down and saying, hey, you're gonna sit down. I don't think this is a performance benching. I think if I think it all is directly tied to the one play where Anthony Richardson tapped out. I've never seen that before, tapping out because he was tired. Do you have a crucial third and goal situation coming up, biggest play of the game, you need a touchdown. I wish Anthony Richardson has head lied, you know. I honesty is the best quality in a person. Man. If you can be honest, everything else is gonna be all right. Like I love honesty. That's a moment where I wish Anthony Richardson had lied. I wish he had ted had said. I thought I was hurt, you know, I got my head got rocked on that play. I thought I got concussed. My leg hurt. It just shows like an incredible lack of self awareness, man, like you can't you can't say that. And undoubtedly Joe Flacco gives them a better chance to win football games. Right now. On the year, Flacco seventy d's to one pick with a completion percentage of nearly sixty. Joe Flacco can still win you football games. I just think it's a momentary time out for Anthony Richardson and he's going to start next season. And to be honest with you, Carson, I'd be surprised if Richardson doesn't start later this year. I think the Colts are do for a skid and it's gonna be pointless to start Joe Flacco the rest of the year because I think they're gonna be out of the playoff picture their next four weeks. Minnesota, Buffalo, New York Jets, Detroit. Yeah, I'd be surprised if they went five hundred during that stretch, and if they go worse than five hundred, I think it's pointless to play Joe Flacco because your season's lost and at this point, let's just let Anthony Richardson develop and let him play out the year. 01:33:45 Speaker 3: The one thing about the schedule is the next four weeks are brutal, and then the five weeks after that are super light. I mean they go through the murderers row, and I agree. I mean, if they go one and three, you're fine with that. I'd be shocked if they beat the Vikings, Bills or Lions. Frankly, then Pat's Broncos, Titans, Giants, Jags, though, so that kind of keeps the winning open. 01:34:06 Speaker 1: I guess they could rattle off a hot streak against those teams if they go five hundred. I think it's worthwhile starting Joe Flacco, and again, he gives them a better chance to win games. Right now. Anthony Richardson is one of the most inaccurate quarterbacks ever. He has the eleventh lowest completion percentage since two thousand. That's slightly better than Tim Tebow, but it's worse than Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell and one of the worst quarterbacks I've ever watched. Curtis Paynter and I mentioned this dat on our last NFL show. He has the lowest on target rate in the history of tracking data since twenty eighteen. It's ten percent low or lower than the second lowest Guy I could find that was Zack Wilson. Richardson was at a fifty seven percent, Zack Wilson was at a sixty seven percent. But I don't think the Colts are bailing on Anthony Richardson. You don't spend the number four overall pick on a quarterback and just bail on him entirely. We've seen it once. That was with Trey Lance with the forty nine ers. But you look at the circumstances and they're just drastically different. That team was ready to contend with the Super Bowl, and Brock Purdy had shown them that he was ready to win football games with that team, So I think that's an outlier. The Colts knew what they were getting into. This is a guy that has twenty three starts since leaving high school, thirteen in college, and ten in the NFL. He is the definition of a project quarterback. I mean, even more so than Josh Allen, even more so than Patrick Mahomes, like Anthony Richardson in a lot of ways, is the biggest project quarterback we have ever seen at the NFL level. So they knew the risk that they were taking. But with high risk comes high reward and so I think that the Colts are going to see this through with Anthony Richardson, and I just can't imagine they're going to bail on the guy. He's going to start next season. Unequivocally, this is their guy. It's just is he going to start this year? I don't know, but I do know is I think I equated this to a timeout for a problem child. Right your child's acting up, You're gonna put him in time out for a little bit. I think this is a learning moment for Anthony Richardson to learn what it takes to be a leader, what it takes to be the face of an NFL franchise. It's not easy. He's a young guy. He's a young man. It's gonna take him some time to learn the ropes. I think this is them setting him down and saying, hey, you need to reevaluate some things yourself and you know, learn what it takes like

it's just a bad look. It's a bad look to other guys in the locker room. I always think to Matthew Stafford in a defining moment for him as a young quarterback in a game fourth quarter against the Cleveland Browns, I think he got concussed earlier. And don't get me wrong, Matthew Stafford is one of the toughest sobs we've ever seen. Play the position but final drive of the game against Cleveland, he had gotten rocked earlier in the game. He gets rocked on this final drive. Stafford jumps his ass up, runs the line of scrimmage. They spike the ball. He's out there ready for the next play. They score a touchdown, they win the game. It's it's a defining moment for him as a young quarterback in the NFL, and unfortunately for Anthony Richardson, this is also a defining moment for him as a young quarterback in the NFL. I just hope he can overcome it, learn from his mistakes, learn that you can't do that. And if it's him taking accountability and getting his conditioning better, hear we gotta get on the treadmill, big man. You know, we gotta get ready to go. I think this is more of a learning moment, but I think it is the right move. I think it's them taking him down, setting him down. We need a mentality change. You need to be a better leader. We believe in your ability, but you need to take on the responsibility of what it's going to take to be this team's emotional and vocal leader. It comes with the territory as a quarterback. I've always said this about QBS. The leadership component is just as important as the physical ability component. And Anthony Richardson's got all the physical ability in the ward in the world, but he doesn't have the leadership quotient. And that's what we're gonna need to see from him moving forward, along with better play obviously, But I think he's gonna figure it out. I don't know if he's gonna figure it out ability wise and accuracy wise. That still needs much to be desired. But I think he's gonna internalize this moment. I think he's gonna learn from it. 01:38:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, not only does he have the least experience in terms of any starter right just in terms of the amount of high level football, college and pro football they've played, he's also still the youngest starter, even in his second year in football. I will say, in regards to this move, I like it less and less the more I think about it. My gut reaction was, Joe Flacco does give you a better chance to win football games. The Colts, although it is ultimately meaningless because this team isn't very good in this shitty AFC, do have a chance to make the playoffs and Anthony Richardson is really far away right now. So I thought, okay, is the short term thing. I can live with that, right, put in the guy who gives you a better chance to win games, and maybe you can make the playoffs. But here's the thing, it just doesn't matter if the Colts do that. And I don't think that there's enough of a difference in terms of the level of quarterback player getting because Flaco's not good. Right, Flacco isn't going to have the embarrassing super dumb moments that you get from Anthony Richardson. Or he's not gonna have a forty percent completion rate over multiple games. Right, He's not gonna throw a pick inside his own twenty. Well, he'll throw some picks, but he's probably not gonna throw a pick inside his own twenty when there's twenty seconds on the clock at the end of the first half. 01:39:54 Speaker 1: You don't think Flacco is like as a good quarterback, like I think Flacco can win you game. 01:40:00 Speaker 3: Flack O can win you games. I think that Flacco is a better win now option than Anthony Richardson. We cannot call him a good quarterback logan at this point. I mean, just with the complete lack of mobility that you get. It was fun with Cleveland last year. It's fun to watch him go out there and sling the ball around and take chances. But I think there's just physical limitations there, Like how would you define good? I mean, is he the twenty fifth best starter in the NFL? Is he lower than that? 01:40:26 Speaker 1: Even? 01:40:27 Speaker 3: Like he's better than the shitty dudes, He's better than the Gardner minshoes. I take him over at Daniel Jones. But there's a lot of really solid quarterbacks around the league. 01:40:36 Speaker 1: Take bo or would you take Joe? 01:40:38 Speaker 3: I take Joe? I take Joe. 01:40:40 Speaker 1: I think I take Joe's. 01:40:41 Speaker 3: That's a bottom tier we're comparing him to. This is the bottom year. 01:40:45 Speaker 1: When you're talking about Anthony Richardson's fatal flaw and we're talking about Joe Flacco's fatal flaw. Right, there's like the inverse quarterbacks of one another. Yeah, right, great? Up with his legs, Flacco. I just think that I would rather have a guy who I'd rather have a statue in the pocket than I guess. 01:41:01 Speaker 3: I think he's better Logan. I mean, you're arguing on air here, I think that you have a better chance to win games with Flacco. You just don't don't like a big. 01:41:09 Speaker 1: Gap, and you don't like the unnecessary drama that it brings along. 01:41:13 Speaker 3: I don't like the notion that you could be bailing on the biggest project quarterback we've seen undertaken in a long time, who everybody knew was a major project after ten starts, because they've said this isn't a temporary thing. They clearly intend for this to be for the rest of the season, and God, I hope that he starts next year, right. I don't view this at all like the Bryce Young badging, where it's like, Okay, this guy's done. I think that if the Colts view it that way, they are actual buffoons, because Bryce was a guy who we knew at his physical limitations, and it was just a question of is he ready to go year one? I no, he's not as ready as we thought. Year two. Is he signing showing signs of improvement? No. Anthony Richardson barely got his rookie year and came in and you knew that it was going to be

another Really, you knew it was going to be a roller coaster ride. And I don't think the improved chance that you give yourself to win games offsets the value that that game experience would have for him. And although I do think Flacco gives you a better chance to win games, I mean you mentioned they're the inverse, and the Colts offensive success rate is actually very close with either one of them on the field. Basically, their passing offense is significantly better with Flacco on the field, and they're running offense is significantly better with Anthony Richardson on the field. So is there enough of a difference. I don't think so. And I know that a lot of people right now are like mocking the fact that there's been a graphic going around comparing Anthony Richardson's stats through his first two years to Josh Allen and be like, oh, these look pretty similar, and everybody's just like, well, you can't just do that with every quarterback who's bad in their first two rookie years, right, Josh is an anomaly in terms of player development. He took one of the craziest I would say the craziest single season leap that we've seen from a guy who was a starter the year prior, although up there in his MVP season. Mahomes is second year, but you know he wasn't a start of the year before. There's some good ones, but Josh was crazy crazy. But if there ever was a comparison where it's like, Okay, I'll give you a little grace, it's when you are taking a guy who was an even slightly crazier raw athlete than Josh Allen, who has even less experience and is even younger than Josh Allen was. It's not like comparing Bryce young right, because there's no upside there. There's nothing to tap into, there's nothing to grow into. With Anthony Richardson, there is so much to grow into, and he needs to be way more accurate and he needs to be smarter. I do think some people might have overstated how bad he was this past week because we talked about it. I mean, I thought there were a lot of near misses in that game, and some good throws and some drops and some good plays by DB's. He didn't play well. Was it the worst performance we've seen from a starter? Of this year though not at all, and he needs to be less of a boom or bust player. There's so much to figure out. He's far away, right, I think he's two years away if he's gonna get there, But he can get there, that is within him. And if you believe in your coaching staff, why the hard pivot, like what's changed since you drafted him? You know you're surprised that he's struggling. You shouldn't be. 01:44:16 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was gonna ask you. Do you think this is more performance based or due to that one play being a bad look? I think it has to do more with that barely. I think they knew what they were getting into with performance. I think this has to do with him tapping out. I think it is directly correlated to him tapping out. 01:44:34 Speaker 3: Could be you could be right, and if this is just meant to

be a learning opportunity for him with that, then okay, I understand that perspective. Do I think it's worth costing him nine games of experience in his second year? No, I wouldn't say so, but I could see that angle. I kind of do think it's performance based, though I think these teams are very sensitive to perception, and these teams are very focused on winning games. Man, every NFL front off is wants to save their own asses. They want to save their own jobs. 01:45:05 Speaker 1: Well, more importantly, it's yeah, exactly, it's it's the coaches. Yeah. The coaches don't want to get shit canned. No. 01:45:11 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so if you think, hey, we have a kind of light backstretch of our schedule and this wild card race is a joke, and we're four and four, we could win nine games, we could get into the playoffs, that's a tempting proposition. I don't think that's how you should view things, but that is how a lot of NFL teams, I think, do view things. But it's just way too early to call. With Anthony Richardson, I understand a lot of people just want to say that he sucks. He may suck, but we don't know yet. When you are talking about this raw a prospect who has only played ten starts. So ultimately, I don't like this move, and. 01:45:49 Speaker 1: I understand your argument. I really do see that side too, because ultimately, hindsight's twenty twenty, right, If the Colts somehow miraculously get into the wild card, we'll all go, oh, look look at what Joe Flacco did. He did it on the inverse. If they missed the playoffs, then you go, oh, you just cost yourselves more starts, more experience for Anthony Richardson. The ironic part two, though, to me, is I wish that the coaching and the GM's jobs didn't come into play, because then you could just start Richardson and you're worse in ironically, in a way, I think that helps you because you'll have a higher draft pick. Richardson will have more experience. Like I know that this one. It's hard to view it through that lens as a fan and when you're trying to win football games on a week to week basis. But when we're looking at this on a grand scale, the Colts aren't winning the Super Bowl this year. The Colts aren't particularly close to winning the Super Bowl, right and so when we are looking this in a long term lens, I agree with you. You make the stronger argument you'd have a higher draft pick, Anthony Richardson would have nine more games of experiens under his belt. But you gotta win games, man, you gotta win games. And Joe does give them a better chance right now, I can really see this on both sides, man, I really can. 01:47:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how Freaky Joe does out there. It's a tough slate coming up. I don't know, we'll see. I think maybe Freaky Joe comes back to earth. All right, guys, there you have it, some NBA, some NFL. Hope you enjoyed if you did. The good news is there's plenty more Nerd Sagh content out there. Check out our YouTube channel. We've got all our full shows and we've got some video breakdowns. As I mentioned, I just did one on Chat the other day. We do those for the NBA. Logan's been doing them for the NFL. Lock in on that, and you can just listen to the show across all audio platforms. If you want even more nerd Sage content, you fiends. You can follow us across social TikTok, Instagram at nerd Sesh, Twitter at nerd underscore Sesh to see all of our trivia content, clips from the show, graphics from the show, and you can also join our discord if you want to chat with a gang, formulate theories, discuss said theories. It's a wonderful place and happy Halloween everybody. Hope you had a wonderful Halloween. Did you have a wonderful Halloween? Logan? 01:48:08 Speaker 1: I was posted up in the trap watching the Jets Texans game, so yeah, it was pretty good. 01:48:11 Speaker 3: Logan was posted up in the trap watching the Jets Texans game and happy the other thros muertos everybody. Huh. All right, thanks guys, appreciate you. Listen. We're very inclusive here. We want to make sure that everybody feels seen and heard. And with that, as always, I've been Carson Braber, just say Logan Camden Yes, Quinnard Sesh