התמלול המלא של Whose Problem Is EdTech Solving? | My EdTech Life 374

00:05:04.399 But C, like, if this is branded to me, like that is great. 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:11.759 And like that weekend, I'm really quick on like I have an idea, I test it, it doesn't work, scrap it. 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.000 It works, continue it or modify. 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:20.000 So I think that week, that weekend I was at a conference in Santa Barbara, and I I'm weird. 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.040 I traveled with Sharpies, I have a backpack of charges, you know, all the snacks dad life over there. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:29.839 I got snacks, I got chargers, I got uh hand sanitizers, you name it. 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:45.040 And that uh weekend I brought a Sharpie and on my badge I put Chief Dodo District Office door opener, and I was like, dude, either people are gonna hate it and I'm gonna have to like erase it, or they're gonna be like, What is this? 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:55.839 And the second happened, and a couple of soups that I just met for the first time like literally like leaned in, grabbed my badge, and they were like, I've never seen anything like this. 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:57.120 Like, what does this mean? 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:04.399 And I was like, Oh, you know, I work with some companies and they're like the best in class, and like they want to talk to folks like yourself. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.279 So if you're ever in need of some products, like that's what I do. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:10.319 And they were like, Yeah, I need this, this, and this. 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:11.199 Like, what do you got? 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.160 And I was like, Oh, I think there's a thing here. 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:22.560 I think there's a thing here, and that next week I think I like revised the entire LinkedIn, I changed everything. 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:38.720 I said, Hey, I'm gonna like go all in on this, and now I can like confidently say if you land on my LinkedIn, you will in a minute know exactly what I do and what I could potentially do if you're a tech company out there. 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:54.319 So it's really helped me cut through the noise because there's great consultants out there, there's great folks to do strategy, go to market, and SDR work, events, planning, sporting events, planning dinners, like you name it. 00:06:54.319 --> 00:07:14.560 There's folks that uh do a lot of things, and what I found that I uh what comes really easy for me is really trying to figure out who do I need to pair up with you for a very thoughtful conversation based on what I know about that person at their district or what they're trying to solve for or their strategic plan. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:23.519 If I know they have uh LCAP goal of really improving math scores, and by the way, that's a common one, everybody's struggling in math. 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:37.519 But if I know that, and then I also have a math provider that I really believe in that has crazy evidence and efficacy and data to show, why would we not want

to put them together and say, you have this really big goal? 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:47.040 This company does this already with hundreds of schools and districts, and we can show you the data and efficacy and festivolials and everything. 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.079 I think this is worth the conversation for you guys. 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:56.000 And look, even uh even with all those data points, people still sometimes don't respond, right? 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:04.319 So it's one of these games of like uh everyone is busy and we're fighting for attention, truly, right? 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:15.279 Like uh my kids are seven and five, and they are now experiencing the dynamics of like you know, uh fucking screen time and all this stuff, right? 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:29.199 Like they are now watching engineering videos and gardening videos and cooking videos, and like, you know, yeah, god forbid there's a ad that comes on, or we're watching the news and there's a commercial bridge, right? 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:38.240 Like that the attention scale is not there anymore, so it's really uh, you know, how can you cut through the noise, make sure it's very relevant to somebody? 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:45.919 And if we can do all those things, then there's a higher probability that two people that are good people or try to do good work can be. 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.320 And I think that's actually how we met, right? 00:08:48.320 --> 00:09:03.840 Like on LinkedIn, we just started chatting, and I was like, hey, like tell me more about your work and what you do at the district, and it was uh no real like uh, you know, I hope that when people listen or meet me, they're not like what's this guy's agenda? 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.639 Because you know, that's not how I don't operate like that. 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:07.600 I'm not okay. 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.840 Look, do I think 10 steps ahead? 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.720 Of course, right? 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:23.200 But for me, I'm not like okay, I need to buy this guy lunch because in three years he might be this person somewhere, and that's like that's not how I work, right? 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:44.480 Like, I everyone has a unique story, and we're all sharing our unique stories, and the more I can learn about other people's unique story, the better I can connect with them, and ultimately, like, we always have this one life, and like I rather make more connections based on shared interests than shared goals, and like that's just how I operate. 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:47.200 That was the longest ring fixer ever. 00:09:47.679 --> 00:10:04.720 No, but that's great because it gives us some great insight, and this is everything that I have seen you do on LinkedIn, and just the way that you are so approachable, the way that you really do have a genuine intent of meeting and getting to know people and just getting to know their stories. 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:26.080 And I think that's something that

is very important, and especially in the ed tech space when everybody, like you said, is vying for everybody's attention and obviously for you know, uh money, you know, at the end, you know, because you're selling a product, you want to make sure that you share what you have and how that is going to make an impact on your students. 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.240 So, I mean, there's a lot of competition there. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:44.799 So I want to kind of ask you now, uh, Jacob, in your experience in being a district office door opener, you know, what have you learned about why so many district doors may be closed uh to a lot of ed tech companies? 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.039 Good question. 00:10:47.039 --> 00:11:03.200 Um I think some of it has to do with the fact that like a lot of sales ed tech organizations have queer goals that they have, right? 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:20.240 As a company to keep the lights on, the reps need to talk to 10 people a day, and you got to have 40 meetings a month, and their metrics show that if the reps can have 40 calls every single month, three of them will move into the next stage. 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:27.919 And of those three, one of them might move into some kind of contracting and go to the board, and they will close one deal per rep, right? 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:43.840 So everyone's uh from the ed tech side looking at metrics of like we need to talk to this many people, we need to dial this many times, I have to call, I have to email, I have this, and like I did that as well, right? 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:44.639 I'm McGraw. 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:51.120 I visited four days a week, and I visited 20, 30 schools a day some days, driving around LA. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.120 So, like, that is a map quest feat. 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.080 Thank you, map quest. 00:11:54.080 --> 00:12:20.080 Uh, I don't even know if they're around anymore, but I I say that because the reps that are get trying to get in front of the folks that are very, very busy at the districts sometimes forget that those folks are not thinking about anything ed tech related, they're thinking about is the bus on time, are all my teachers teaching properly today? 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:25.120 Are any parents showing up that don't need either for whatever reason? 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.879 Uh, are my spent teachers doing what they're supposed to be doing? 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:30.320 Is the board happy? 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.320 Are the things we haven't are the construction projects moving forward? 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.840 Is everybody safe? 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.120 Is everybody healthy? 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:43.279 Like all these things that like are second nature to us, where you're like, oh, those are just standard things. 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:51.679 Like those are the things that they are worried about every hour on top of the 10 things that their teams are asking of them. 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:59.679 Then the ed tech side is interjecting ourselves into that to-do list, right? 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:08.480 There's like 10 things they need, and then we're like, hey, we have this interesting thing, we'd love to talk to you. 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:12.080 And here's the thing there's a very thoughtful way to do that, right? 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:22.080 You like truly a thoughtful way to say, I've reviewed all of your data, and I truly think that there's a potential impact to be made here. 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.240 I think we should talk for 20 minutes. 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:33.360 But when they'd get those, you know, look, that's the thoughtful message that if you send to one of my folks, my folks would be like, hey, if it makes it past their stand filter, right? 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.799 They're gonna be like, it is homework. 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:38.799 Let's let's see, right? 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.639 But on those calls, you've probably been on many of them too. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:49.919 That like the way we're talking and building a relationship on this podcast is not how those sales calls go, right? 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:56.240 Those sales calls go in like uh let me tell you about everything, I'm gonna show it to you. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.200 What do you think? 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:58.879 And you've been on these calls, right? 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:04.720 What happens when you log into a zoom and the person has a deck up or their website? 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:27.919 You know what happens, the eyes shift to the second screen, and that person for a half hour is like clearing their inbox, and that is a terrible use of everybody's time, is if you can't have a genuine conversation about the districts, the struggles, the pain points, the things that they're saying day in and day out. 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:52.320 And I uh some of this is truly, I feel like on the ed tech side, the sellers are really scared to report back to the people that manage them to say I didn't demo it, I didn't talk to them about all the shiny bells and whistles, I didn't use some of this stuff because they will be reprimanded by not doing that right. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:53.919 And I am the opposite. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:15:00.320 I'm like, I can go the whole hour 30 minutes and not tell you about any of this stuff. 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:06.960 But I would like to know what specifically are you trying to solve yesterday? 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.399 What if you if we could solve it for you? 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:11.279 What would it be? 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:14.399 And it might not be that cool, and that's okay. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.159 That is okay, right? 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:28.879 But if it is related to that solution, that is a very thoughtful second conversation that you can have with somebody to say, hey, like on the last call, I learned this. 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:34.320 I've like mentally prepped for this because I think we can

help with that. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.639 Is it okay if I show you? 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:42.399 Like, that's a great overall dialogue, but also process. 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.320 But I'm convinced that it's tough out there. 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:57.600 Like, this isn't COVID time, people aren't buying 20 million dollars of chat-based tutoring that you know they met at the RDI, right? 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.679 Like, that this is not that time right now. 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:04.480 So people are being thoughtful, people are looking at their budgets, people are cutting tools, right? 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:12.799 I was on with the district uh a number of months ago, and uh a CTO friend, we were just catching up, and I was like, How are they still? 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:40.559 He's like, It's a weird time because I have lots of vendors I really like, but we are in a budget crunch, and I'm gonna have to cut like 75% of the tools that I use, and like I'm gonna have unhappy teachers, I'm gonna have I'm like there's gonna be repercussions, but like if we do not have the money, do I want unhappy teachers or vendors, or do I want to fire the teachers and have unhappy parents? 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.559 Yeah, those are two different things, right? 00:16:44.559 --> 00:17:01.200 Like, and that that's just kind of the reality we're living in right now is you know, yes, I live in California, so there's after school dollars, there's community school dollars, there's special ed dollars, so there's a lot of like great things happening here, but that is not the same for every single state. 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.319 So it's like could you tap into some of those things? 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.319 And if not, like I venture to say some of these are I mean, you've seen it, right? 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:17.759 Like, there's been some crazy layoffs over the last month, and like I feel bad for the community, and folks are reaching out, and I'm like, How can we help? 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:23.200 Like, what please please do some homework, find out who you would like to work for. 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:30.640 Uh, and then if I have them in the network, let's connect the dots at the hiring, like, let's there's no bottleneck here, right? 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.359 Like, all the tide lifts all boats. 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:34.000 Yeah. 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:42.319 No, and uh, you know, everything that you said there, it just really hits because I've seen it, I've lived it, um, reading up on it. 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:46.160 And like you said, you know, the districts at this time, they're very busy. 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:54.960 They're like you said, there's a cadence, the school year started, and obviously they're getting bombarded in their emails, you know, from companies, LinkedIn messages. 00:17:54.960 --> 00:18:00.960 I know you posted earlier also like people just getting messages, whether it's recruiters, whether it's ed tech companies, and so on. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:11.599 So they're getting demos, they're getting pitched, and you know, they're they're trying to do all of that in the middle of just the normal school day cadence and trying to make sure that everything's working. 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:16.319 And one thing that I really like that you hit on, Jacob, was just that relationship aspect. 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:21.359 And I think that, you know, even all sales calls don't have to be salesy. 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:32.319 As a matter of fact, you know, I think uh in a conversation, I can't remember what podcast uh that you were on, you had a conversation where sometimes, you know, the best first meeting is where you barely even talk about the tool. 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:33.440 And you mentioned that yourself. 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:46.400 You can go a whole hour and night or hour and 30 minutes of not even mentioning what the platform is, but you're really just getting to know what it is that that school district with that CTO is needing. 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:55.759 And like you mentioned, very that I love what problem were you trying to solve yesterday that we can work on and help with in the future? 00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:09.359 And I think those are some very important talking points that maybe a lot, hopefully a lot of our listeners here, and especially if you're in the ed tech space, are taking some notes because these are some wonderful, wonderful um pieces of advice that you've shared. 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:15.920 Recently, I was just in Oklahoma for a week doing a roadshow and visiting campuses in person. 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:27.200 And mind you, just the look on their faces of like, wow, you know, you're here, you're present, like, you know, and even if it's just to drop off some donuts and some flyers, but just say, hey, how are you all doing? 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.640 How's your school year going? 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.519 What are some things that, you know, we can be helpful with? 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.000 You know, do you have your OUs set up? 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.759 Do you have this set up? 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.960 You know, what can we take off of your plate to help you? 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.480 And man, just the response is just amazing. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.559 Just that being able to be there in person has really made a big difference. 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:52.319 But like you said, it's all about those connections and just getting to know people, it makes a huge difference. 00:19:52.319 --> 00:20:07.599 Now, you know, in the ed tech space, you know, we talk a lot about solving problems, but sometimes I wonder, are we solving the problems that educators actually have or problems that companies really need educators to have? 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.920 So, how can we tell the difference? 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:50.319 Yeah, you know, it it's the common theme, I feel like, over the last 30, 60, 90 days, and

even on my end, as I'm submitting some like proposals for self-by-self west and net tech week and FETC, uh, some of the themes that came up, and now obviously think uh Blessed AI, like uh all the the cods and the chats and the Geminis that help me with proposals now, where you know, in the past it probably would take me an hour to do a proposal, and now I can get 10 ideas in 15 seconds with every popular topic in the uh educational idea today. 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.440 So that's awesome. 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:55.359 Uh, but not all those topics are good, right? 00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:02.400 And some of them are really like can you co-design with a school to help solve their problem? 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:18.480 The challenge, uh, challenge or opportunity, I don't know, both, is some orgs that have built a great tool, yes, shiny, yes, spells and whistles, all of this stuff, they solve for one thing, which is X. 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:27.279 And when you're on a call and you're building a relationship, and the school or the district says, I need help with why. 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.759 Where does that conversation go? 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.359 We don't do why. 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:41.039 We're wishing you uh, like keep us posted if you solve for the smart founders and the smart companies would say, Can I get back to you? 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:48.720 I would like to see on the dev side how big of a whip it would be to help you solve that. 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.039 We are not that right now, but but we need to do some research. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.240 IOU follow up to see how hard that is, right? 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:57.440 Pretty good. 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:01.359 Maybe you do it, maybe you don't, but maybe there's a As some kind of follow-up. 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.799 Others are saying, I'm in build mode. 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.480 This is my second company. 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.960 I had a very successful career doing XYZ. 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.359 I'm gathering info. 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.920 I'm in a research mode. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:41.920 What is the biggest thing that you need help with that if it was already there, that you would partner with, pilot with, get for free, use for year, whatever language we use, and then gathering that data, and then being like, I'm seeing themes, I'm seeing a theme for SIS, or I'm seeing a theme for whatever, whatever we're talking about. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.519 Tutoring, assessment, it doesn't matter, right? 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.359 I'm seeing the themes now. 00:22:47.359 --> 00:23:01.680 If I go build this on my own, then I could potentially show it to them after, or can I thoughtfully say, I actually am thinking about building that thing that you need? 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:10.160 Can I tap you once every two weeks to show you progress on it? 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:22.000 Because you would be literally our ideal user, and for that, for your time, we will give you some kind of two-year license once we launch this. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.640 And some people still will say, I don't have the time to view that, right? 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:38.799 But if you build a good enough relationship and somebody says yes, then you have a build partner, and that is a very difficult thing to get uh as an ed tech solution provider, right? 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:44.799 Like uh through the like who from the organizations are that have build partners, right? 00:23:44.799 --> 00:24:06.640 Like the GSV Google fellows, there's 30 of them every semester, and they're not build fellows per se, but the these are folks that come together that the GSV team and the Google team do like deep wording with them and say, What are the things that are needed in your ecosystems right now? 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:19.680 We want to tell you about the things we're seeing and thinking about, but that's us above, like that's not the district we're like uh above is not the light word, but like we're beside you, right? 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:33.119 We need to hear from you because if we're working on the wrong things and you're not going to be solving for the things that we think are important, we need to re-evaluate what we are building and spending resources on, right? 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:41.920 So, like this this idea of like being a thoughtful partner and thinking about it long term, and I think I told the story recently, right? 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:49.759 Like during COVID, I worked for uh varsity tutors, I was their first hire, RIP varsity tutors. 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:57.039 Uh, they uh their their business that sells to districts is not around anymore, but I was the first hire, I sold the first five million dollars. 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.480 I was there for a year, I was there during an IBO. 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:08.240 And the the thing I always come back to, like some of my best relationships right now that I text with all the time. 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:17.440 We have conversations about shoes and life and AI, are folks that I met during that time because we bonded over shared needs. 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:25.119 But you know what's fascinating is not all of those programs at their schools were hyper successful. 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:33.200 They like some of them were okay, some of them were average, some of them were great, and the kids got exactly what they needed. 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:53.599 But I tell a lot of the companies I work with is you need a good enough relationship that when stuff hits the fan, that you get the call because inevitably there will be a hiccup, there will be something that the board asked that you didn't have an answer to. 00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:01.519 There will be something about single sign-on that was not figured out until after the fact. 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:07.119 There will be something about rostering that they thought was easy and it is not easy. 00:26:07.119

--> 00:26:12.960 There will be something about a parent being grumpy and saying, What I who approved this? 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.079 Why are we doing this? 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:19.680 Like, there will be something that comes up during that relationship that we cannot predict. 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:28.079 And I would like then to like me enough to say, I'm gonna call our person and let's get this rectified. 00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:33.440 And if I get the call early, I can say I will get back to you. 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:42.160 Like, I need a couple of hours, you're gonna hear from me within a couple of hours, and even if it's I need till tomorrow, and you'll hear from me, right? 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:54.079 But I would like the ability to rectify whatever hiccup happened before it gets that hiccup turns into pneumonia, yeah, and it's uncurable, right? 00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:04.559 Because once it gets to that point, the relationship is still there, but the problem has gotten so large that it's not fixable. 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.799 And I would like to get ahead of each thing, right? 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:19.920 So I say that along with the story of like some of my folks I talk to the most are people that we were working through projects in 2020 2021 to solve what they needed. 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:24.319 Some of them went swimmingly and they got what they needed, and others didn't. 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:32.880 And we're still in contact now because I think from the get-go, I said, Hey, this is what it is, this is what we're looking to help you do. 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.279 It's not gonna be perfect for everybody. 00:27:35.279 --> 00:28:01.119 Like, this isn't there's no one-size solution for every single one of your students at your district because they're all gonna be at different levels, and like we will do our best to do this, but it it's it I can't tell you with 100% straight face that this is gonna work for every single kid, and I think like hopefully that's the reason we're still in touch, or if not, maybe I have cool shoes, and that's the the pass-through line, right? 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:10.960 Like, but um, yeah, it I think it's at the end of the day, just being genuine with folks and saying, like, hey, this is what I do, what do you need help with? 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:19.119 And yesterday as a prime example, I was in San Diego all day with one of my great partners uh that does like special ed uh paraprofessionals subs. 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:26.160 And we spent some time uh doing like a lunch with some of their existing partners, right? 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:32.960 So this wasn't like a sales lunch, it was like you guys already work together, we are appreciating you. 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:34.160 Let's go to lunch. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.519 Like, we're not talking about sales, we're not talking about updates, we don't need your renewals, we're just having lunch. 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:54.400 And some of the

fun conversations came out from that was their own partner saying, By the way, you know, there's an event in October that I didn't think about until literally us at this lunch that like you 100% have to be. 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:55.119 You know why? 00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:02.880 Because Sally at the other district who we've talked about that you're trying to also work with, Sally will be there, and I know Sally really well. 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:12.480 Sally doesn't pick up calls, Sally won't talk to vendors in this way, but Sally will be at that event, and that is how we can introduce you to Sally. 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.519 It's like I was sitting there and I was like, this is so cool. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:29.200 Like, I had the weird, like, you know, in my brain, I was like, this is literally the like the coolest interaction that I am experiencing because your own partners are thinking about wow, I love working with you. 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.359 I'm trying to figure out how to help you and for others to work with you too. 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.480 That just gives me like the warm and fuzzies, right? 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:44.880 Because that's a partner that's doing good work, they're celebrating the work, they're celebrating those educators, and it all works in a positive for them, right? 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.440 And including we have like two parts. 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.599 We also had like an evening event for everyone who could come to lunch. 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:56.319 And I met some great uh people at the evening dinner too. 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.960 And I said, Hey, like, where do you fit into the ecosystem? 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:07.359 And some were their partners, and some were you know different districts that they've never worked with, but they're like best friends with other folks. 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:15.200 So it was like just a jet, and there's no there was no presentation deck, we didn't do a PowerPoint presentation, we didn't even talk. 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.720 Like, if somebody asked them, like, what do you guys tell me? 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.240 Like, what do you state? 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.519 How expensive are you? 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.440 Of course, they talked about it, but it was more of like uh, do you have kids? 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.079 I have kids, I have young kids, do you have older kids? 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:32.559 What do I what do I need to learn about the next 10 years before they go to college? 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:43.599 Those were the conversations, or we talked about you know, CTE programs, or we talked about raising money for their schools, or we talked about health journeys and people losing weight. 00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:53.200 So, like, there's interesting pass-through lines that we all deal with, even though we're educators and we're all trying to do right by kids and families. 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.359 We all have our own things we're

battling. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:03.200 If it's weight loss, if it's our kids' homework at night, which I'm bad, that's my battle right now. 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:30.559 Or do you know for securator kindergarten around like homework time is a thing that I'm now my patience is uh learning about, but uh like everybody is fighting a battle that we don't know about, and when they are at their districts with their district person hat on, that is just one part of who they are, and when they go home, it's a completely other thing. 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:40.480 And ultimately, I truly live by this is people want to do business, people want to spend time, people want to be friends with people they like. 00:31:40.480 --> 00:32:15.839 Yeah, if you as a vendor are not likable, we need to put you in some kind of Tony Robbins class on being likable because if folks don't naturally attract themselves to you, or you can't build a good relationship with somebody based on some comedy goals of having kids do it right by students, whatever professional development, Tony Robin, help kit, you whatever that topic is, like there are pass-through minds, and I don't know why my brain works like this. 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.160 Might be because I listen to literally no music, and all I do is do podcasts and listen to people talk all day long. 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:30.960 So I'm getting a flood of interesting questions, but also answers and information, and at times it's too much for sure, right? 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:37.680 You ever go four days of not listening to podcasts, you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like 77 ominous lists. 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:57.200 But like you can ask interesting questions and get to know people beyond the surface level, then you're likely to have better conversations the next time you see that person, and like um, there was a uh great Jay Shannon podcast that I listened to last night on the way home from St. 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:09.759 Diego, and he interviewed somebody that literally is like uh uh a neuroscientist professor, a her like book that is coming out is literally about having conversations. 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:18.720 Like, what questions can you ask others to go deeper faster without being like, hey, the weather today, huh? 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.160 And I'm guilty of this too. 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:26.400 So I say all this, I'm preaching and I don't, but I'm guilty of like, oh, I don't know this person, man, it's hot today, huh? 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.039 So I think that we all naturally do that, right? 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:42.559 But I think I can naturally be like, you know, this is the type of weather that like this bald head is not good for, like, no sunscreen here, and like uh I'm trying to keep my beard not gray. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.400 So, like, uh, bear with us. 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.680 Like, can we move in the shade? 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.559 And oddly enough, then you're like, Oh, how old

are you? 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:52.160 Like, oh I'm like, I'm 42, don't mind the hair, you know. 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:54.559 Like, but like you could go quicker. 00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:01.119 Like I'm like, I'm the person you meet that I'm okay making fun of myself, I don't take myself that serious, right? 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:07.359 So, like, I will quickly make fun if it puts the energy in the room in a better place. 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.519 I will make fun of myself every single time. 00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:11.360 I don't take myself that serious. 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:19.360 Clearly, I my background is like uh shoeboxes, poker stuff, uh, awards, and lots of other shoes. 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:24.880 Like, this is you know, I hope when people meet me, they're like, that was interesting. 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:46.880 But like, if I see them the next time at a conference, they're gonna remember me as that person with a whole bunch of shoes and uh random stuff, and hopefully they remember that they had a good interaction and that I was genuine and that they liked what I was doing for organizations or the districts I work with, but ultimately, like, we live in this attention space, right? 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.719 Like, if we can make a positive impression on somebody, like, why would we not do that? 00:34:52.719 --> 00:35:00.960 And then why would we not have that snowball into a further dialogue, even if it's not next month, maybe it's next year. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.519 But you have a a bright starting point. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.280 Yeah, absolutely, man. 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.559 That is fantastic. 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:12.800 Well, as we kind of start wrapping up, uh, I did want to ask you one question, Jacob, because I'm very interested in what you do. 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:37.360 But I know sometimes there could be maybe just you run into a little bit of difficulties, obviously, sometimes because there might be some tensions where ed tech companies come to you because in the end they say, like, hey, we want to get into a district, but not every platform may be ready to get into a district or be bought by a teacher. 00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:41.280 So I want to ask you, you know, uh, how do you handle that? 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:50.480 What makes you just willing to be walk to walk away immediately and just say, hey, you know what, maybe you're not ready, but maybe work on these things. 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:51.599 How how does that work? 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:56.079 Because I can imagine that you you do get a lot of companies coming to you. 00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.239 How do you how do you handle that? 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:04.480 Yeah, uh, I will tell you this is uh work in progress in my own business. 00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:13.440 I would say year one and even year two, if you reached out to me and said, I'm working on this, can we have a conversation? 00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.039 I said, No problem. 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:16.880 Here's my calendar book. 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:39.360 What I found myself doing was I would look in my calendar and self-reflect at the end of the week, and I'd say, I've gotten no deep work done or nothing accomplished this whole week, but I'd met like 50 great people, and I could not reason with the like, do I need to meet more people or do I need to do the work that I'm scheduled to do? 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:52.480 So I had this like epiphany where I was like, I can't service everybody, I have to have some mechanism of a filter to say, I'm excited that you reached out, truly, right? 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:57.840 Like when people get messages from me, yes, that is a note that I saved, so I have it in my phone, right? 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.760 But it is like, I'm excited to review what you built. 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:06.559 I have a process because LinkedIn or my email is really messy. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.119 I would like for you to go on the website. 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:10.880 There's like five questions. 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:17.679 There should take you less than one unit, but it would help me guide the conversation when we do connect. 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:20.000 And some of those questions are very intentional. 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:20.719 Do you have data? 00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:22.079 Do you have efficacy? 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:24.239 Are you already working with districts? 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.519 If you're comfortable with sharing, how large is the organization? 00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:28.960 How many people do you have? 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:38.000 Also, have you scoped a budget for working with somebody like and sometimes most times eight out of ten times? 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.239 It's oh, we are very early and we are bootstrapping and we don't have any funding. 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.480 And I'm rooting for that, I'm doing that too. 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.719 I'm a solo business owner, right? 00:37:48.719 --> 00:38:04.880 Like, yes, I have a team now, and like we have uh like uh it's a much smaller organization than others, but I am in that same boat, and I would always challenge those founders that like if you are bootstrapped, I'm rooting for you. 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:06.320 I want you to succeed. 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:16.480 You are a little too early for me because the folks that are in my network are gonna ask me some critical questions about you before they agree to me. 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:17.840 Do you have data? 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:19.119 Do you have efficacy? 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:33.039 Like all of the basics, and you saw the Department of Ed information that came out, like all of those things are now table stakes for every single conversation, and some of those orgs don't have that yet, which that's not to say they will have it. 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.199 That's not to one prime example. 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:45.280 Is like I talked to I swear

to like Armon and Brisk, like the first six months that they were an organization at Common Sense, right? 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.320 And I was like, this sounds awesome, but they were also like bootstrapped, they hadn't raised any money. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:39:00.079 We talked, and I was like, Hey, I this is my model, does not mean that it'll work for you if this model is something you want to talk about. 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.840 Like, I'm here for you, and I'm generally rooting for everybody, right? 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:32.320 But I've now realized in the you know, uh January will be my official fourth year, is I can root for everybody, but also make sure I'm mindful of how I spend my time, because spending time with somebody is a bigger investment of energy, which they everybody deserves everybody's energy except when there's no time, and when there's a supply and demand issue of time, it's hard to do it all. 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:52.480 So, some of it now is when uh inquiries come in, if it's a referral, if it's on late day, if it's a cold message online, I will try to qualify them in some way to say what are you working on, but some of that is also like I have 10 plus companies I'm working with now. 00:39:52.480 --> 00:40:04.159 I wouldn't want you to talk to you if I already work with one of your competitors, not because I'm gonna like learn from you and go tell them, but I don't think it's fair to either of you. 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:08.320 I have somebody I'm contracted with, they do what you do. 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:13.519 I cannot really engage with you right now, even if we have a thoughtful conversation and you want to start. 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:14.800 I can't start with you. 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:26.159 I am contractually obligated by my client that I only work with one company in this vertical, one company in a different vertical, one company different vertical. 00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:37.840 And look, maybe that changes at some point in my business, and maybe there's 10 of me running around, and I can assign each of those companies to a different mini dodo. 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:45.039 Uh, but right now there's limited time, so I have to attempt to screen. 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:47.440 I I don't know of a better way to do it yet. 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:48.000 Yet. 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:48.800 Perfect. 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:50.000 Well, thank you, Jacob. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:58.079 But just as we wrap up, we're gonna put a final bow on this because I know uh, you know, you've got some other things to do, and I really appreciate your time. 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:20.239 But just to wrap this up in a nice bow, if we can get an ed tech founder, salesperson, and a district leader in one room for three minutes, what would you tell them uh ed tech needs to stop doing, start doing, and never lose sight of if we actually want technology to improve education? 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:27.119 Stop doing the marketing teams out there are gonna hate me. 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.360 I just have never found that cold email worked. 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:36.079 Like I always did very targeted messages. 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:41.599 If I was going cold, I had the uh the data on why I was reaching out. 00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:50.400 So maybe be thoughtful on email outbound in back to school time when there's 10,000 things to do. 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.000 So maybe that's the stock. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:04.400 Uh, start is maybe like being okay with the idea that it's okay to listen and talk less. 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:05.840 And I'm guilty of this. 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:07.519 I'm a talker, natural talker. 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:11.920 Seven-year-old talks to a bunch of crazy like me, so I guess that. 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:20.400 But it's okay to listen and ask thoughtful questions of others without having to be like, and I'm guilty of this too. 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:34.719 So work in progress of like at dinner yesterday, somebody's talking about XYZ and what they did over the summer, and we're humans, we're inherently wired to be like, Oh, yeah, let me tell you about what we did, and that sucks. 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.159 I don't like that about myself. 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:43.840 If that happens, then your conversation to be mindful because you're like, we don't need to one-up each other, we also don't need to like share everything. 00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:49.440 Let that person talk and like reinforce what they're saying, and that person is gonna be like, you know what? 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:50.480 This was thoughtful. 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:51.199 I talked. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:56.719 I've never had anyone meet me and talk the most and be like, no, I didn't like that. 00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.360 You didn't talk at all during this conversation. 00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:00.320 That never happened. 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:07.920 Everybody loves to give info and answer great questions and be engaged, so like start listening. 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:12.880 It's okay to not pitch in meetings, you will build a longer-lasting relationship. 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:17.360 Uh, so that's more for the sales directors and PPs. 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:43.360 Like, empower your people to be thoughtful and humans, and it's okay to not have a clear takeaway, but have a clear conversation because when you reach out to that person the next time, they are gonna remember that you didn't go hardcore pitch and that you built a relationship where you talked about your family or the goals or whatever, your vacation. 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.360 Uh, what was your last one? 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.280 Oh, and what is something that they should never lose sight of? 00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:59.760 I think ultimately at the end of the day, why I'm in the space and not in AI or any other crazy hot field, that we could all be significantly richer. 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:05.599 Is I do

things for myself at five, right? 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:10.000 Coming to America, not knowing any English, and I'm living the American dream. 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:16.320 And I now have a five-year-old that like is working on speech therapy four days a week. 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.519 And like I have to have him super motivated and dialed in to improve. 00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:33.199 But also, like he and I drive obviously for all these speech therapy acquaintances, and I'm like, hey, the way you're doing speech is the way dad was being pulled out of class to learn English. 00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:45.599 So like I get it, it's not always the most fun to spend time with a speech therapist or be pulled out of class for this, but like I did it too, and I didn't have any English. 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:54.480 You understand we're just working on fine letter skills and speaking properly, like you're gonna be all right, kid. 00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:02.800 So to keep that version inside them, yes, we all have families, we all have mortgages, we all have bills to pay. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:12.480 We can all do that and still be thoughtful, good humans that have the kids' best interests at heart, or you sell to the teachers or the administrators. 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:14.960 Like there's a it's not zero sum. 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:19.280 You could be a good human, pay your bills, and serve people properly. 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:26.800 You could be a great rep, hit your quotas, sell a lot, and still have happy customers that are being served. 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:28.639 Like it's not one or the other, right? 00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:31.760 You could be all of the things, is it a work in progress? 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:33.039 And is it a ton of work? 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:33.519 Totally. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:35.119 This is your 19 for me. 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:43.280 So, like, finally, in year 19, uh, I have a little bit of things figured out, but like we're constantly learning every single day. 00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:55.519 So, like I challenge uh everyone to uh adopt some you know uh alchemist slash Tony Robbins slash whoever your guru is that you look for for information. 00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:59.679 Like, we as much as we have figured out, I don't have anything figured out. 00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:08.960 This is a work in progress, we're doing our best, we're waking up, we're putting one foot down, we're putting one foot in front of the other, and like just attempting to do good work. 00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:09.679 Awesome. 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:12.880 Well, Jacob, thank you so much for this very insightful conversation. 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:18.400 And more than anything, it was a pleasure to get to know you a little bit better, a lot better, I should say. 00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:26.719 And I must say that the work that you're doing is something that is fantastic, and that I'm definitely one of those that is lurking on LinkedIn, just cheering you on. 00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:34.639 And it's amazing everything that you've been able to do, the places that you've been, the people that you've met, and just how inspiring that is for myself. 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:39.599 And I know it's not only for myself, but for many others that are following in your journey too, as well. 00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.800 So thank you so much for filling my bucket today. 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:44.480 This was such a great conversation. 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:45.760 I really appreciate you. 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:53.280 And we'll make sure we link all of your contact information in the show notes so all of our listeners can definitely connect with you. 00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:54.559 So thank you so much. 00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:08.239 And to everybody, please make sure you visit our website at myedtech.live where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 374 episodes where I promise you you will find some knowledge nuggets that you can sprinkle onto what you are already doing great. 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:10.800 Big shout out again to all of our sponsors. 00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:20.480 Thank you so much for believing in our mission to bring you some amazing conversations into the education landscape so we can continue to grow not only professionally, but personally as well. 00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.239 So thank you all for that support. 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:26.880 And my friends, until next time, don't forget, stay techy.