התמלול המלא של George Hirsch, NYC marathon pioneer: longevity, mindset, and staying active at 92

00:04:17,350.15566667 So that's what I did, and I started, yeah, I'd say it was eighth grade, 13 years old. 49 00:04:17,360.15566667 --> 00:04:17,710.15566667 Yeah. 50 00:04:18,640.15566667 --> 00:04:26,922.16066667 And were you obsessed with it after your first run, or did it- start to grow for you? It's a very good question. 51 00:04:26,922.16066667 --> 00:04:31,712.15966667 I remembered I, I tried all kinds of sports, and I was doing everything. 52 00:04:31,712.16066667 --> 00:04:34,262.16066667 I even tried to be a high jumper. 53 00:04:34,892.15966667 --> 00:04:42,372.16066667 I set up a high jump pit in our backyard, and that didn't work out too well either, but I worked hard at it. 54 00:04:42,442.16066667 --> 00:04:49,682.15866667 What do you think kept you running into your 70s? So many people would stop running before that. 55 00:04:49,682.15966667 --> 00:04:52,982.15966667 Why do you think you kept going with it? I enjoyed it. 56 00:04:53,52.15966667 --> 00:04:54,912.15966667 I think it was as simple as that. 57 00:04:54,982.15966667 --> 00:04:56,112.15966667 I really did. 58 00:04:56,112.15966667 --> 00:04:59,792.15966667 I think it gave me a feeling of, wellbeing. 59 00:04:59,862.15866667 --> 00:05:02,982.15766667 I liked going to the races a lot. 60 00:05:03,32.15866667 --> 00:05:13,562.15866667 I had friends and we'd, we'd meet at the races and often after and go out and have coffee and, it was a social thing in part. 61 00:05:13,682.15866667 --> 00:05:18,712.15866667 It was a competitive thing, as much against yourself as anyone else. 62 00:05:18,782.15566667 --> 00:05:24,72.15566667 You knew what your times were and you knew, you knew what you wanted to do to better them. 63 00:05:24,122.15666667 --> 00:05:32,12.15866667 Also I think as you get older, every five years you enter a new age group, and so it's a clean slate. 64 00:05:32,162.15766667 --> 00:05:33,622.15766667 And that's really great. 65 00:05:33,972.15666667 --> 00:05:38,102.15566667 you're not competing against the person you were 10 years ago. 66 00:05:38,162.15566667 --> 00:05:45,290.66066667 I think that keeps a lot of runners motivated, which is very important I know that's true for me. 67 00:05:45,380.66066667 --> 00:05:53,110.66066667 I've been active my whole life, and I've, quote-unquote, "run" my whole life, but just, out of feeling like I had to run. 68 00:05:53,130.66066667 --> 00:05:59,602.15966667 And it hasn't been until the last, six to nine months where I've actually I got into running where I'm like, "Okay, I actually enjoy it now." 69 00:05:59,602.15966667 --> 00:06:04,572.15966667 I got over, the hump of feeling like it was just a checkbox chore. 70 00:06:05,212.15966667 --> 00:06:08,570.65966667 And the thing that got me through that was the competitive piece. 71 00:06:08,592.15966667 --> 00:06:08,622.15966667 piece. 72 00:06:08,642.15866667 --> 00:06:12,592.15966667 So when I started to track my runs, I was like, "Oh, I can race against myself." 73 00:06:12,710.65966667 --> 00:06:13,792.16066667 I can see bit more abstract. 74 00:06:13,792.16066667 --> 00:06:13,852.16066667 Just okay, I'm just doing it. 75 00:06:13,852.16066667 --> 00:06:22,490.65766667 But as soon as I started tracking it, 'cause my brain because I love weightlifting for that reason, where each loves, I can either add a rep or a weight, and the running felt like a little bit more abstract. 76 00:06:22,490.65966667 --> 00:06:23,830.65766667 It's just okay, I'm just doing it. 77 00:06:23,830.65866667 --> 00:06:34,872.15766667 But as soon as I started tracking it, 'cause my brain loves, Competing and data, and so that was the thing for me where I was like, "Oh, I can be just competitive against myself in this category, and it's really fun." 78 00:06:35,742.15766667 --> 00:06:36,552.15766667 Definitely. 79 00:06:36,582.15766667 --> 00:06:44,152.15666667 And I think that's-- it goes on, and it goes on, as you say, into your 70s, into your 80s and all the rest. 80 00:06:44,202.15766667 --> 00:06:51,602.15666667 It's a huge motivator, I think, to reset every few years and all of a sudden... 81 00:06:52,82.15566667 --> 00:06:56,162.15366667 I know friends that, say, I'm going into a n-new age group next year. 82 00:06:56,272.15666667 --> 00:07:04,522.15366667 I'm turning 70, and I'm gonna really step up my training," where a lot of people at 70 might, be th- looking toward the couch. 83 00:07:05,288.65366667 --> 00:07:06,18.65366667 Yeah. 84 00:07:06,448.65366667 --> 00:07:12,452.15366667 And what do you think differentiates, those two people? So interesting, that question. 85 00:07:12,552.15366667 --> 00:07:17,102.15366667 It's a mindset thing in large part, for sure. 86 00:07:17,192.15366667 --> 00:07:18,842.15366667 Of course, a lot of it's physical. 87 00:07:18,892.15366667 --> 00:07:24,312.15366667 If you have issues of mobility or something of the kind, they restrict you. 88 00:07:24,522.15366667 --> 00:07:26,192.15266667 that we all understand. 89 00:07:27,132.15266667 --> 00:07:40,42.15966667 But I do think it's a mindset and, I've always said to myself, at the end of a day when I was still working if in doubt, do, and that's always been a philosophy of mine. 90 00:07:40,72.15866667 --> 00:07:49,182.16066667 it's 6:00, you're finished a long day, it'd be awfully easy to just sit back and, turn on the TV or something like that. 91 00:07:49,912.15866667 --> 00:08:04,32.15866667 But, I might not feel a lot like, putting on the running shoes and heading out the door, but what I learned was once I did it, I was always glad I did it. 92 00:08:04,212.16166667 --> 00:08:05,382.15966667 If that makes sense. 93 00:08:05,402.15566667 --> 00:08:25,22.16366667 I just, I'd be tired and a long day, maybe a stressful kind of a day, and then as I say, should I go out? I'd go out, I'd start to run, I'd feel good, I'd come back and I was always happy that I made that little extra effort. 94

00:08:25,132.16266667 --> 00:08:31,392.16366667 I think knowing that was the case, I think it was a a huge motivator for me. 95 00:08:31,512.16266667 --> 00:08:32,870.66266667 Yeah Yeah. 96 00:08:32,990.66266667 --> 00:08:36,314.16266667 If in doubt, do If in doubt, do. 97 00:08:36,424.16266667 --> 00:08:44,324.16266667 Yeah, that was one of my little sayings that I kinda created for myself. 98 00:08:44,394.16266667 --> 00:08:52,47.66266667 Absolutely So tell me what your week looks like from an exercise standpoint at 92 Okay. 99 00:08:52,267.66266667 --> 00:08:58,367.66266667 luckily I l- I live in New York City, and I live in one of those big apartment houses. 100 00:08:58,417.66266667 --> 00:09:04,527.66266667 And like a lot of apartment houses in New York City, there's a small workout room in the building. 101 00:09:05,47.66266667 --> 00:09:09,477.66166667 So that, removes a lot of excuses. 102 00:09:09,477.66266667 --> 00:09:18,467.66266667 if it's raining or snowing or something, I can still just get in the elevator, head on down to the second floor, and I'm there. 103 00:09:18,527.66266667 --> 00:09:21,977.66366667 And that makes a big difference, I think. 104 00:09:22,627.66166667 --> 00:09:25,77.66166667 regimen is a mix of things. 105 00:09:25,827.66166667 --> 00:09:41,377.66066667 A treadmill, and, that is more walking than running, but I do like an interval of walking and then maybe a minute of running on it, and then go back and walk. 106 00:09:41,867.66166667 --> 00:09:53,987.65966667 And the reason for that is about three plus years ago, I came out of a restaurant with friends one night, and I tripped and fell. 107 00:09:54,667.65866667 --> 00:09:59,797.66066667 Next thing an ambulance, taken to the hospital, fractured hip. 108 00:09:59,857.66066667 --> 00:10:04,747.65866667 They replaced the hip the next day, and that's never a great thing, I'll tell you. 109 00:10:04,747.66066667 --> 00:10:05,417.66166667 This was a... 110 00:10:06,47.65966667 --> 00:10:10,397.65866667 It was a setback, and I worked really hard. 111 00:10:10,527.65866667 --> 00:10:12,357.66066667 At first, I couldn't do anything. 112 00:10:12,407.66166667 --> 00:10:21,997.66266667 But, eventually I started going regularly to physical therapy and then doing my own exercises at home and, got myself back. 113 00:10:22,97.66366667 --> 00:10:25,817.66166667 I keep an eye on my steps, too, on my watch. 114 00:10:25,867.66166667 --> 00:10:30,287.65566667 And the goal of 10,000 steps. 115 00:10:31,307.65566667 --> 00:10:35,646.16066667 The truth is, Mary, I'm happy when I hit 8,000- Great Great. 116 00:10:35,797.66166667 --> 00:10:41,719.66366667 which I do, certain- 8,000 at the age of 92 is Pretty darn good, right? It's o- it's okay. 117 00:10:41,749.66366667 --> 00:10:42,859.66366667 it, it's true. 118 00:10:43,359.66366667 --> 00:10:51,239.66366667 So I r- I do the treadmill, and there's a rowing machine, and I like that 'cause you get some resistance. 119 00:10:51,249.66366667 --> 00:10:58,409.66266667 There's some upper body, there's some light weights, and I do that, curls and things like that. 120 00:10:59,249.66366667 --> 00:11:00,749.66366667 I do squats. 121 00:11:01,9.66366667 --> 00:11:03,719.66266667 I do some pushups. 122 00:11:03,789.66266667 --> 00:11:10,129.66066667 Oh, about a year or two ago, I took up boxing. 123 00:11:10,809.66066667 --> 00:11:10,829.66066667 Wow. 124 00:11:11,266.16266667 --> 00:11:12,299.66366667 Wow, Yeah. 125 00:11:12,589.65966667 --> 00:11:14,59.66066667 I- it was really great. 126 00:11:14,519.66066667 --> 00:11:23,319.66166667 So I went to a boxing gym, not a health club, but a serious boxing gym up- in New Wow, in New York City in Harlem. 127 00:11:23,369.66366667 --> 00:11:24,49.66366667 Yeah. 128 00:11:24,129.66466667 --> 00:11:25,719.66466667 these guys were serious. 129 00:11:25,769.66466667 --> 00:11:30,619.66466667 they all told me they hadn't seen a 90-year-old in there, and I suspect that was true. 130 00:11:30,999.66366667 --> 00:11:31,529.66566667 but they... 131 00:11:32,199.66366667 --> 00:11:34,749.66466667 no one was hitting me, you understand. 132 00:11:34,749.66766667 --> 00:11:39,829.67266667 this was mostly sparring and learning combinations of punches. 133 00:11:39,829.67266667 --> 00:11:43,279.66866667 You'd put the gloves on, and they tape your hands up. 134 00:11:43,369.66966667 --> 00:11:44,469.66866667 it was really cool. 135 00:11:44,719.66866667 --> 00:11:55,879.67366667 And then you'd hit the bag, and, the, the- Yeah the great big heavy bags, which works your shoulders a lot, and then the light bags, which are good for coordination. 136 00:11:56,409.67066667 --> 00:12:08,295.17466667 And I liked it so much that I asked the board in my building if we could put a light punching bag into the workout room, yeah They're a great workout. 137 00:12:08,305.17466667 --> 00:12:15,735.17866667 And you hit that bag for three minutes, which is a round of boxing, and you feel it. 138 00:12:15,915.17766667 --> 00:12:16,765.17666667 I like it. 139 00:12:16,865.17466667 --> 00:12:17,985.17566667 I like it a lot. 140 00:12:18,285.17566667 --> 00:12:23,554.67666667 Started this at the age of, was it 90? It was, boxing I was 90, yeah. 141 00:12:24,601.17666667 --> 00:12:25,281.17666667 Wow. 142 00:12:25,331.17666667 --> 00:12:39,191.17666667 I just love, yeah mindset around, it doesn't sound like there's any limitations I feel like a lot of people have this idea that you don't start new things in your 90s, and you're clearly not in that camp. 143 00:12:39,491.17666667 --> 00:12:39,956.67666667 That's right. 144 00:12:40,6.67666667 --> 00:12:49,56.67666667 I, think, I think we're better off if we keep, motivated, curious, new things, new friendships. 145 00:12:49,86.67666667 --> 00:13:00,936.67266667 this is not physical exercise, but, look, if you're fortunate enough, to live into your 10th decade, it by

definition means you've lost a lot of friends. 146 00:13:01,686.67266667 --> 00:13:04,86.67366667 And, I keep making friends. 147 00:13:04,86.67366667 --> 00:13:10,986.67366667 I've got some wonderful friends that I've made in the last year or two, and they're really important friendships. 148 00:13:10,986.67366667 --> 00:13:26,346.67466667 the kind that we FaceTime and WhatsApp and talk to each other and share book ideas or movies that we're seeing, or just things that are going on in each other's lives and, uh, it's meaningful. 149 00:13:26,396.67666667 --> 00:13:27,376.67566667 It means a lot. 150 00:13:27,416.67666667 --> 00:13:27,836.67666667 Yeah. 151 00:13:28,456.67666667 --> 00:13:30,616.67666667 That's beautiful. 152 00:13:30,616.67666667 --> 00:13:30,636.67666667 That's beautiful. 153 00:13:30,636.67666667 --> 00:13:56,809.17566667 And I love boxing f- for multiple reasons, where it en- it ends up being a brain exercise as well, because it requires a little bit more accuracy and skill and coordination, and I don't know if you're doing the footwork with it as well, but I love quick footwork to prevent fall risk There's a little bit of footwork as well, y- you're trying to hit him and he's protecting himself so you move around a little. 154 00:13:57,189.17566667 --> 00:14:00,999.17466667 He never throws punches at you fortunately. 155 00:14:01,129.17466667 --> 00:14:04,259.17366667 But yeah, it, it's a great, it, I like it. 156 00:14:04,329.17366667 --> 00:14:06,19.17666667 I've, really been enjoying that. 157 00:14:06,99.17766667 --> 00:14:11,353.67666667 Yeah So you're doing your boxing, you've got your cardio on the treadmill with some intervals. 158 00:14:11,363.67666667 --> 00:14:13,513.67666667 You're doing some weight lifting as well. 159 00:14:13,513.67666667 --> 00:14:17,687.17666667 You're doing a lot of walking outside, it sounds like and the stationary bike. 160 00:14:17,757.17666667 --> 00:14:18,307.17666667 I think Thank you. 161 00:14:18,400.67666667 --> 00:14:21,960.67666667 I'm on that probably four days a week. 162 00:14:22,570.67666667 --> 00:14:23,490.67666667 I like that. 163 00:14:23,610.67666667 --> 00:14:30,890.67666667 I can read or, check my email or do stuff while I'm on it, so I feel like I'm, using my time well. 164 00:14:31,269.17766667 --> 00:14:31,649.17766667 yeah. 165 00:14:31,780.67666667 --> 00:14:36,472.17666667 Do you have any idea what your VO2 max is at this age? I don't know. 166 00:14:36,472.17666667 --> 00:14:38,312.17666667 I haven't tested it. 167 00:14:38,332.17666667 --> 00:14:41,772.17666667 it, we all know it goes way down as you get older. 168 00:14:42,222.17666667 --> 00:14:50,202.17566667 So mine's obviously gone down and down, but I suppose it's pretty good for my age. 169 00:14:50,312.17766667 --> 00:14:53,782.17566667 That, that would- I would assume it's it's very good for your age I would assume. 170 00:14:54,152.17566667 --> 00:15:06,832.17466667 I, I'm one

of these people, Mary, who's not terribly obsessed with a lot of the details of all of this, if that m- if that makes sense. 171 00:15:06,892.17666667 --> 00:15:07,832.17466667 I just don't. 172 00:15:07,922.17466667 --> 00:15:22,342.17566667 I said I try to walk 8,000 or more steps a day, and I do, but by and large, I'm not, into a huge amount of that kind of thing. 173 00:15:22,342.17566667 --> 00:15:28,132.17666667 I don't get obsessed with it, whether it's nu- and stuff, yeah Like a number or anything like that? Yeah whether it's nutrition or anything. 174 00:15:28,132.17666667 --> 00:15:29,342.17366667 I try to eat well. 175 00:15:29,382.17366667 --> 00:15:30,752.17466667 Don't misunderstand me. 176 00:15:30,752.17666667 --> 00:15:35,72.17266667 It's a pretty, it's a pretty good, diet. 177 00:15:35,122.17066667 --> 00:15:42,422.16766667 At the same time, there's things I like, ice creams and desserts and, and I have them. 178 00:15:42,472.17366667 --> 00:15:45,732.17966667 I just don't get too concerned about all that. 179 00:15:45,842.17966667 --> 00:15:47,624.68366667 Yeah Totally. 180 00:15:47,974.68366667 --> 00:15:51,274.68366667 And so you've completed 40 marathons. 181 00:15:51,344.68366667 --> 00:15:55,844.68366667 At your peak training, how many miles were you logging a week, yeah. 182 00:15:56,44.68366667 --> 00:16:01,704.68366667 peak would've been probably when I was in my 40s actually. 183 00:16:02,344.68266667 --> 00:16:08,54.68166667 I was probably running 70, 75 miles a week. 184 00:16:08,84.68166667 --> 00:16:08,984.68066667 a good amount, Yeah. 185 00:16:09,63.18066667 --> 00:16:09,323.18066667 Yeah. 186 00:16:09,623.18066667 --> 00:16:14,174.67966667 given, that I had a full-time job and all of that, so yeah. 187 00:16:14,214.67966667 --> 00:16:18,694.67966667 And that's when I ran my best times, was, my best marathon. 188 00:16:18,714.68066667 --> 00:16:20,124.68066667 I was 44. 189 00:16:20,184.67966667 --> 00:16:21,31.18066667 So yeah. 190 00:16:21,331.18066667 --> 00:16:25,811.18066667 And And that was the Boston Marathon? which is from, that's where I'm from is Boston, Massachusetts. 191 00:16:25,861.18066667 --> 00:16:29,90.68066667 and that's a tough tough marathon Boston's not easy. 192 00:16:29,110.68066667 --> 00:16:30,530.68066667 New York is harder. 193 00:16:30,580.68066667 --> 00:16:39,710.68066667 And then there's nice easy ones like, flat and fast like Chicago and Berlin, which I've run too, and those are really nice. 194 00:16:39,810.68066667 --> 00:16:44,520.6806667 And then beautiful ones like Big Sur out the West Coast. 195 00:16:44,690.6806667 --> 00:16:44,770.6806667 Beautiful. 196 00:16:44,770.6806667 --> 00:16:45,880.6806667 That's spectacular. 197 00:16:45,900.6796667 --> 00:16:46,190.6796667 Yeah. 198 00:16:46,870.6796667 --> 00:16:57,400.6786667 I wanna talk about the New York City Marathon So before the New York Ci- City Marathon was a race that basically the entire running community knows at this point, it was totally different. 199 00:16:57,510.6796667 --> 00:17:05,330.6796667 so I think that the first New York City Marathon was in 1970, which was only 127 runners. 200 00:17:05,630.6796667 --> 00:17:10,189.2510952 Was in 1970, which looping inside of Central Park, right? only 127 runners. 201 00:17:10,189.2510952 --> 00:17:12,42.1082381 and it was just looping inside of Central Park, right? All correct, and I was not one of them. 202 00:17:12,232.1082381 --> 00:17:13,762.1072381 I had al- You weren't running. 203 00:17:13,762.1072381 --> 00:17:14,682.1082381 No, I was not. 204 00:17:14,682.1082381 --> 00:17:19,572.1072381 I had already become a marathon runner in 1969 in Boston. 205 00:17:20,52.1072381 --> 00:17:29,272.1082381 And back then you needed $2 and a letter fr- from a doctor saying that you were fit enough to run the course. 206 00:17:29,272.1082381 --> 00:17:38,922.1052381 I think that was more legal than medical, because, the doctor who wrote my letter had no idea, 'cause I hadn't run more than 15 miles. 207 00:17:38,922.1052381 --> 00:17:45,362.1032381 And so how he knew I could run 26, I didn't know I, I didn't know I could. 208 00:17:45,412.1042381 --> 00:17:47,512.1052381 I wasn't really well prepared for it. 209 00:17:47,512.1052381 --> 00:17:54,12.1072381 But, I had started to run some months before and decided to go and run Boston. 210 00:17:54,312.1072381 --> 00:17:54,682.1072381 Yeah. 211 00:17:55,202.1062381 --> 00:17:55,812.1062381 So Wow. 212 00:17:56,98.6072381 --> 00:18:02,576.1072381 Yeah, and that first New York City one in 1970, there was only, 55 people that actually finished that marathon. 213 00:18:02,876.1072381 --> 00:18:03,528.6072381 it was a then... 214 00:18:03,828.6072381 --> 00:18:06,356.1072381 hot, humid day, so it didn't lend itself. 215 00:18:06,356.1072381 --> 00:18:10,206.1072381 And Central Park, as you may know, Mary, is very hilly. 216 00:18:10,216.1072381 --> 00:18:15,536.1062381 It's a really difficult up and down course. 217 00:18:15,596.1072381 --> 00:18:18,436.1072381 yeah, it wasn't a good day for running. 218 00:18:18,736.1072381 --> 00:18:42,881.6072381 But then in 1976, you and another gentleman, I think his name was Fred, Fred LaBelle stuff, the whole the whole thing Yeah That's a great- behind this? Why did you decide, how did this come to be? Yeah, so we're celebrating this year the 50th anniversary of the Five Boro Marathon, and the Five Boro Marathon is really significant. 219 00:18:42,981.6072381 --> 00:18:46,111.6072381 That changed running. 220 00:18:46,671.6062381 --> 00:18:50,821.1062381 Yes up until then, there were no big city marathons. 221 00:18:50,861.1062381 --> 00:18:58,341.1062381 As being from Massachusetts, the Boston Marathon, 20 miles of it is outside of the city of Boston. 222 00:18:58,937.6062381 --> 00:19:12,457.6072381 So this was a big city marathon through the five boroughs starting in Staten

Island, the Verrazzano Bridge, and then at least touching into all five boroughs and then finishing in Central Park. 223 00:19:13,217.6062381 --> 00:19:19,967.6062381 And it was fascinating, and it wasn't just Fred Lebow and me. 224 00:19:20,517.6052381 --> 00:19:35,717.6042381 This year, the New York City Marathon is celebrating what they're calling the five trailblazers, the five people who were instrumental in launching the New York City Marathon. 225 00:19:35,767.6072381 --> 00:19:53,577.6082381 it was Fr- Fred Lebow and myself, and a wonderful man named Ted Corbitt, who was the first president of the New York Road Runners, and he had been an Olympic marathon runner back in his day, so he was a, someone we all looked up to. 226 00:19:54,157.6102381 --> 00:20:09,497.6122381 And then a local politician named Percy Sutton, who was the Manhattan Borough president, and a man named George Spitz, who was a character, a New York character, a political gadfly. 227 00:20:10,327.6142381 --> 00:20:19,587.6082381 And once the idea was created by, Ted Corbitt, George Spitz started selling the idea to people. 228 00:20:19,597.6052381 --> 00:20:25,697.6102381 He would get on the phone at all hours of day or night, and he'd call people. 229 00:20:25,787.6082381 --> 00:20:33,137.6032381 I remember he'd be calling me, the phone would ring at 2:00 in the morning and, I'd say to my wife, "That must be George," and it was. 230 00:20:33,997.5992381 --> 00:20:43,87.6232381 And, he wouldn't even introduce himself and he wouldn't say, "Hello, how are you? About that idea," And, I think people got tired of his calls. 231 00:20:43,117.6202381 --> 00:21:06,747.6182381 so slowly but surely, people started saying, okay, what would it take?" And, and Percy Sutton was had, local political influence, uh, being an important office holder, and he set up a meeting for Fred Lebow and myself to go down and meet with the mayor And in 1976, New York City was on the verge of bankruptcy. 232 00:21:07,337.6182381 --> 00:21:09,307.6182381 it was in terrible straits. 233 00:21:10,107.6182381 --> 00:21:12,727.6182381 Crime was sky high in the city. 234 00:21:12,727.6182381 --> 00:21:14,277.6182381 It was a terrible time. 235 00:21:15,297.6182381 --> 00:21:35,567.6152381 And the idea that we were pitching then was a marathon in the city in conjunction with the tall ships, the celebration of the bicentennial, and no one was talking about year two or a permanent New York City Marathon. 236 00:21:36,477.6162381 --> 00:21:38,47.6182381 But, it caught on. 237 00:21:38,787.6172381 --> 00:21:44,627.6152381 2,000 people, which was enormous for a marathon 50 years ago. 238 00:21:45,307.6162381 --> 00:21:52,517.6132381 it, it was very big, and it quickly became bigger than the Boston Marathon, which had been around, forever. 239 00:21:53,87.6122381 --> 00:21:59,447.6132381 and so it was such a success right from the beginning that there was no looking back. 240 00:21:59,477.6152381

--> 00:22:03,847.6172381 no one said, "Oh, should we do this again?" It was just like that. 241 00:22:03,857.6132381 --> 00:22:04,577.6132381 Oh, yeah. 242 00:22:04,577.6132381 --> 00:22:05,207.6112381 Yeah. 243 00:22:05,207.6112381 --> 00:22:05,867.6112381 Exactly. 244 00:22:06,677.6122381 --> 00:22:15,534.1142381 Yeah What do you think the sport has gained, and what do you actually think has been lost during that time? It's a great, it's a great question. 245 00:22:15,564.1152381 --> 00:22:18,274.1152381 Honestly, It hasn't lost much. 246 00:22:18,274.1152381 --> 00:22:22,204.1152381 Let's start with that si- side, because I don't think much. 247 00:22:22,204.1152381 --> 00:22:31,554.1152381 I think the one thing that it may have lost a little is from its incredible success nowadays. 248 00:22:31,594.1142381 --> 00:22:34,404.1152381 People can't get into these races. 249 00:22:34,874.1142381 --> 00:22:37,814.1132381 it's impossible to get into the New York City Marathon. 250 00:22:37,814.1132381 --> 00:22:44,714.1142381 you put your name into the lottery and, you got a 1% chance you're gonna get in the race. 251 00:22:44,744.1142381 --> 00:22:45,754.1142381 that's not good. 252 00:22:45,824.1142381 --> 00:22:52,954.1142381 It's, we all wish that were different, and that's gone down into the 5K races and the 10K races. 253 00:22:53,394.1142381 --> 00:23:02,894.1112381 the New York Road Runners puts on more than 50 events a year, and they're all sold out, and people, are frustrated. 254 00:23:03,314.1112381 --> 00:23:04,284.1122381 they wanna run. 255 00:23:04,294.1112381 --> 00:23:05,784.1112381 They just-- Like we used to. 256 00:23:05,794.1112381 --> 00:23:09,574.1112381 We used to just sign up for a race the day before. 257 00:23:09,574.1132381 --> 00:23:17,864.1172381 No one thought, "Oh, is it gonna be sold out?" now they're all sold out, and so what do people do? they email me. 258 00:23:18,864.1172381 --> 00:23:22,54.1152381 Do you remember me from third grade? I was in Mrs. 259 00:23:22,54.1152381 --> 00:23:23,684.1152381 McGill's class with you." 260 00:23:23,734.1162381 --> 00:23:25,14.1152381 all that kind of stuff. 261 00:23:25,244.1162381 --> 00:23:32,784.1242381 it, that, it's a downside for sure because it, it's not great. 262 00:23:33,224.1222381 --> 00:23:38,524.1242381 a downside that comes from the sheer success of the sport today. 263 00:23:38,774.1182381 --> 00:23:40,504.1152381 people are just running. 264 00:23:41,184.1172381 --> 00:23:50,764.1142381 this running boom that we're in now is far bigger than what we talked about the running boom back in the 1970s, for example, all of that. 265 00:23:51,614.1172381 --> 00:23:53,834.1172381 the good, oh, my gosh. 266 00:23:53,844.1202381 --> 00:24:00,314.1172381 when we started, as you said, it was just a little group of kind of, outsiders. 267 00:24:00,364.1172381 --> 00:24:05,54.1162381 No one quite got it, and it was most all men. 268 00:24:05,484.1152381 --> 00:24:09,894.1222381 just a couple of women were sprinkled in the beginning. 269 00:24:10,324.1232381 --> 00:24:15,364.1232381 now it's everybody, equally men and women. 270 00:24:15,384.1212381 --> 00:24:18,244.1142381 Some races certainly have more women than men. 271 00:24:18,774.1202381 --> 00:24:24,64.1142381 as we said at the top of the conversation, all ages. 272 00:24:24,194.1172381 --> 00:24:26,504.1172381 my goodness, that's great. 273 00:24:26,564.1122381 --> 00:24:31,544.1052381 I think all of these things are big pluses, and, it's international. 274 00:24:31,594.1052381 --> 00:24:34,504.1052381 there's something about that, I think, that's quite wonderful. 275 00:24:34,514.1052381 --> 00:24:37,184.1052381 And n- no place more than New York. 276 00:24:37,234.1052381 --> 00:24:39,584.1062381 the world comes to run in New York. 277 00:24:39,634.1062381 --> 00:24:42,604.1052381 And, Boston has its tradition. 278 00:24:42,994.1042381 --> 00:24:46,974.1042381 Chicago has its super fast course and record times. 279 00:24:47,374.1052381 --> 00:25:12,104.1022381 But New York is this huge international place, and it's something, I don't care if you live in, Nice, France, or Palermo, Sicily, you wanna run the New York City Marathon someday if you're a runner, for sure, I gue- I guess I see mostly good out of it. 280 00:25:12,244.1002381 --> 00:25:14,884.1042381 I don't see a lot of negatives. 281 00:25:14,914.1042381 --> 00:25:30,943.6042381 I found a quote that I think, and I'm hoping you actually said online, so tell me if this is not True, but I think that you said never make a decision on the uphill- Yeah in running or in life. 282 00:25:30,943.6042381 --> 00:25:31,3.6042381 Yeah, that's one of my sayings. 283 00:25:31,3.6042381 --> 00:25:36,93.6042381 I've taken sort of a number of things from running and applied them more broadly. 284 00:25:36,503.6032381 --> 00:25:58,763.6022381 And in, in a race particularly, if you're going up a hill and you start to overthink it, you're gonna either slow down or walk or stop, right? So my thinking is don't make any decisions on the uphill. 285 00:25:58,763.6042381 --> 00:26:02,883.6022381 Wait until you crest the hill, and then think about it. 286 00:26:02,923.6042381 --> 00:26:09,493.6092381 And by then, you're on a little downward slope, and, you're feeling better already. 287 00:26:09,633.6082381 --> 00:26:13,223.6062381 And I think it applies to life itself. 288 00:26:13,303.6082381 --> 00:26:16,553.6052381 there's times you just wanna quit doing something. 289 00:26:16,563.6062381 --> 00:26:19,213.6082381 You wanna drop out. 290 00:26:19,523.6062381 --> 00:26:23,153.6062381 maybe it's a job and it's just not working. 291 00:26:23,153.6062381 --> 00:26:26,813.6052381 I'm not saying people shouldn't leave jobs at a certain point. 292 00:26:26,863.6052381 --> 00:26:27,483.6052381 They should. 293 00:26:27,493.6022381 --> 00:26:38,34.1002381 But, but

I think it should deserve some consideration and not, the decision being made at the moment of highest stress. 294 00:26:38,193.6012381 --> 00:26:38,794.1002381 I love that. 295 00:26:38,823.5982381 --> 00:26:39,834.1002381 that Yeah love that. 296 00:26:39,834.1002381 --> 00:26:42,34.1002381 I think it re- it resonates with me so much. 297 00:26:42,34.1002381 --> 00:26:45,564.1002381 First of all, because that I'm a runner, it's like I Yeah, it. 298 00:26:45,637.6002381 --> 00:26:52,524.1002381 that's like you wanna wanna make a lot of decisions on make a lot of decisions that in terms of stopping, slowing down, maybe I make it a little shorter th- today kind of thing. 299 00:26:52,559.6002381 --> 00:26:53,269.6002381 For sure. 300 00:26:53,879.6002381 --> 00:26:56,284.1002381 Yep it really resonates with life as well. 301 00:26:56,584.1002381 --> 00:26:56,969.6002381 Yeah. 302 00:26:57,269.6002381 --> 00:26:57,569.6002381 Yeah. 303 00:26:57,869.6002381 --> 00:27:11,85.6012381 Yeah What advice would you give someone who thinks that they're too old to start running or just start anything physical? Maybe they've always wanted to learn how to play tennis, but they're, 65 Yeah. 304 00:27:12,205.6012381 --> 00:27:32,705.6002381 I think, Mary, I think the first thing I would say if you want to start running or take up a sport at an older age is, go to your doctor, your, primarily your principal care physician, and just make sure that there's no issues there. 305 00:27:32,825.5992381 --> 00:27:40,125.6002381 Assuming there are not, and then, I would say a really gradual beginning. 306 00:27:40,135.6002381 --> 00:27:43,45.6002381 Let's say it is running in this case. 307 00:27:43,425.5982381 --> 00:27:48,885.5972381 I would do less than you can do, for sure. 308 00:27:49,85.5982381 --> 00:27:53,985.5962381 maybe run a minute, walk a minute, run a minute, walk a minute. 309 00:27:55,195.5952381 --> 00:28:01,825.5952381 Do that for 10 minutes the first day, so you've run five minutes, and call it a day. 310 00:28:01,825.5962381 --> 00:28:03,885.5962381 And you're gonna say, "Gosh, this is easy." 311 00:28:04,405.5982381 --> 00:28:05,425.5942381 And that's okay. 312 00:28:05,535.5932381 --> 00:28:14,385.5892381 And then maybe a little bit more, and the next thing you know, at the end of a week, you're running three minutes and walking three minutes and so on. 313 00:28:14,935.5872381 --> 00:28:16,555.5892381 but I'd get into it gradually. 314 00:28:16,785.5892381 --> 00:28:21,985.5862381 it's a matter of adaptation, and that's very important. 315 00:28:23,175.5872381 --> 00:28:31,175.5892381 If you overdo it early on, you're gonna get sore muscles or cramps or stitches in your side. 316 00:28:31,725.5902381 --> 00:28:36,625.5872381 And all those things are kinda like, "Oh, boy, this isn't for me. 317 00:28:36,625.5872381 --> 00:28:38,405.5882381 I sh- I'm not a runner." 318 00:28:38,425.5872381 --> 00:28:40,195.5892381 and that's not true, of course. 319 00:28:40,205.5862381 --> 00:28:47,605.5862381 It's just that you haven't acclimated yourself to, a degree of exercise that you haven't been doing. 320 00:28:47,845.5802381 --> 00:28:52,95.5792381 gentle, gradual as it goes, that's my advice. 321 00:28:52,165.5882381 --> 00:28:52,405.5882381 Yep. 322 00:28:52,956.0892381 --> 00:28:53,906.0892381 Slow and low. 323 00:28:54,6.0892381 --> 00:28:54,326.0892381 That's... 324 00:28:54,406.0892381 --> 00:28:55,126.0892381 Yeah, I love that. 325 00:28:55,126.0892381 --> 00:29:02,266.0892381 It just, really just start even slower than you think you need to, and just gradual. 326 00:29:02,356.0882381 --> 00:29:02,926.0892381 I love that. 327 00:29:02,926.0892381 --> 00:29:20,561.5902381 And then from the mindset piece of it, the people that feel stuck in terms of "I can't start something new at this age," any words of wisdom? and the other thing is, maybe if it's possible, try to find someone to meet up with to go out and do it. 328 00:29:21,141.5902381 --> 00:29:24,401.5892381 Turn it into a little bit of a social event. 329 00:29:24,521.5902381 --> 00:29:26,651.5892381 I think that's great. 330 00:29:26,861.5902381 --> 00:29:38,831.5902381 And then, after, duck out, have a coffee and, y- if you do that, I think you're much more prone to look forward to doing it, you've brought this up a few times, so I wanna highlight it. 331 00:29:38,891.5902381 --> 00:29:50,295.0902381 It sounds like running and just movement for you has been equally, I don't know if you'd agree with that, but like equally social compared to just physical health Exactly. 332 00:29:50,475.0902381 --> 00:29:51,835.0902381 Yep, for sure. 333 00:29:51,905.0902381 --> 00:29:52,85.0902381 Yeah. 334 00:29:52,405.0902381 --> 00:29:52,655.0902381 Yep. 335 00:29:52,765.0902381 --> 00:29:53,125.0902381 Yeah. 336 00:29:53,615.0902381 --> 00:30:01,647.0902381 When we surround ourselves with people- are active, the chances that we stay active, I feel like, becomes exponential. 337 00:30:02,127.0902381 --> 00:30:03,757.0902381 That's a great point. 338 00:30:03,887.0902381 --> 00:30:05,697.0902381 I really do think so. 339 00:30:05,697.0902381 --> 00:30:19,237.0892381 you know how often you go to a party and runners will get together, and they're talking about times and races and this and that, and if you're not a runner, you're like, "Oh, God, I'm so bored listening to all that." 340 00:30:19,287.0892381 --> 00:30:27,707.0892381 and you hear of all these divorces among a runner and a non-runner and, people seek each other out. 341 00:30:27,837.0882381 --> 00:30:28,537.0902381 they do. 342 00:30:28,707.0872381 --> 00:30:33,687.0862381 I'm not saying that r- that runners shouldn't have non-runner friends. 343 00:30:33,977.0872381 --> 00:30:35,877.0862381 Of course they sh- of course they should. 344 00:30:35,887.0872381 --> 00:30:38,257.0882381 But, there, there is something of... 345

00:30:38,507.0862381 --> 00:30:39,977.0852381 you're kindred spirits. 346 00:30:39,977.0852381 --> 00:30:41,277.0832381 that's all there is to it. 347 00:30:41,357.0862381 --> 00:30:41,607.0862381 Yeah. 348 00:30:42,503.5852381 --> 00:30:49,763.5852381 okay, so the woman who completed an Ironman, Natalie Grabow, I think is her name. 349 00:30:49,775.0852381 --> 00:30:51,265.0852381 Yeah, 80, 80. 350 00:30:51,375.0852381 --> 00:30:53,183.5852381 Yeah, I've read about her years old old. 351 00:30:53,873.5842381 --> 00:30:59,673.5852381 She learned to swim at 60 years old, which is incredible, and she finished Kona. 352 00:31:00,513.5852381 --> 00:31:12,509.0852381 if she walked into this room right now, what would you want to ask her? Any questions that come off the top of your head? 'Cause she's one person I really wanna get on the podcast, and I would love to hear what you would wanna ask to hear what you would wanna ask her Yeah. 353 00:31:12,529.0852381 --> 00:31:22,139.0852381 I, I guess I'd get into her head more than, say, her training and what she does each day and all of that kind of thing. 354 00:31:22,179.0842381 --> 00:31:30,159.0862381 'Cause I think, it's what drives her, at age 80 that intrigues me and interests me. 355 00:31:31,59.0862381 --> 00:31:41,429.0872381 I know Jeannie Rice, who's 77, maybe 78 now, she's the best runner in the world in her age group. 356 00:31:41,439.0862381 --> 00:31:41,459.0862381 Wow. 357 00:31:41,939.0852381 --> 00:31:44,379.0842381 yeah, she's really spectacular. 358 00:31:45,39.0822381 --> 00:31:53,419.0782381 she's just amazing, and her attitude is so low-key and not, aggressive about it. 359 00:31:53,469.0782381 --> 00:32:05,609.0762381 and to be the best in the world at anything is unique, and she is the best over-75-year-old female runner in the world, and there's plenty of them. 360 00:32:05,629.0782381 --> 00:32:07,629.0782381 her times are extraordinary. 361 00:32:07,629.0782381 --> 00:32:14,439.0782381 She's running marathons at age 77 in, I don't know, three hours and 30 minutes. 362 00:32:14,499.0772381 --> 00:32:16,869.0792381 it's really- Wow yeah, she's flying, yeah. 363 00:32:17,399.0772381 --> 00:32:25,289.0742381 and her attitude is just so good, and she, is never hard on herself. 364 00:32:25,349.0712381 --> 00:32:32,989.0662381 she doesn't seem like she's, gets obsessed with, diet or training or any of those things. 365 00:32:32,989.0662381 --> 00:32:40,129.0632381 she just, she clearly is enjoying it, and she's loving it, and of course, people love having her at a race. 366 00:32:40,139.0662381 --> 00:32:43,539.0692381 She's a celebrity within the world of running. 367 00:32:44,79.0692381 --> 00:32:46,209.0702381 and I've just, loved her attitude. 368 00:32:46,249.0732381 --> 00:33:04,439.0742381 So I would ask her questions along those lines about what it is that, uh, kinda keeps her going This wasn't intended to be a trick question, but, I wanna flip this back to you now 'cause I'm interested what keeps you going? Now, if I'm interested, what keeps you going? Oh, gosh. 369 00:33:04,939.0742381 --> 00:33:10,259.0742381 W- I guess curiosity is a big thing, about a lot of stuff. 370 00:33:10,289.0742381 --> 00:33:20,599.0742381 I find, I'm busy all the time because I'm always reading or learning or talking to people or, things. 371 00:33:21,99.0742381 --> 00:33:26,759.0752381 this is after I'm retired, and I didn't retire until fairly recently. 372 00:33:26,759.0752381 --> 00:33:37,979.0752381 I think it was I was like maybe 89 when I stepped down as chairman of the New York City Marathon, which I'd been for a long time. 373 00:33:38,749.0742381 --> 00:33:42,379.0742381 and I guess that's a big part of it. 374 00:33:42,379.0742381 --> 00:33:47,789.0732381 I have a lot of different interests, and so I follow them. 375 00:33:47,789.0732381 --> 00:33:51,99.0722381 I'm always checking my phone. 376 00:33:51,109.0732381 --> 00:33:53,579.0722381 I fo- I follow politics a lot. 377 00:33:53,969.0732381 --> 00:33:55,289.0732381 I care about that. 378 00:33:55,829.0722381 --> 00:33:57,439.0712381 Sports for sure. 379 00:33:58,309.0732381 --> 00:34:01,29.0732381 totally into the World Cup right now. 380 00:34:01,347.5732381 --> 00:34:01,737.5732381 Nice. 381 00:34:01,737.5732381 --> 00:34:02,7.5732381 Yeah. 382 00:34:02,309.0722381 --> 00:34:04,589.0712381 Yeah Who do you want to win? Who do you want to win? Oh, I... 383 00:34:04,609.0722381 --> 00:34:26,29.0732381 now for me, now with the US out, th- my team is Spain, because my team, my regular club team that I support is Barcelona, and Barcelona has a number of team players whom, of course, I root for normally, that are on Spain and, I like the way they play the game too. 384 00:34:26,329.0732381 --> 00:34:37,752.5742381 One of the of the reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is you've been an incredible asset to the running community, and I respect everything that you've done much, and I wanted to pick your brain. 385 00:34:37,842.5742381 --> 00:35:00,692.5722381 And there's this other component of you are what I I would consider a longevity success story to the nth degree, and given that's my line of work, I always wanna talk to people who have actually walked the walk and are living where we we want people or where most people aspire be in their 90s, in their nineties, which I feel like you're such a great picture of. 386 00:35:01,349.0722381 --> 00:35:24,256.0682381 And there's so much that we know about longevity in terms of preventing heart disease and, things nutritionally and exercise-wise, but there's this whole other piece which is mental health, mindset, relationships, that often gets overlooked, and that's the thing something that I've heard you say continuously over the last hour, that you've stayed curious. 387 00:35:24,492.5712381 --> 00:35:26,442.5702381 You've had a certain mindset. 388 00:35:26,536.0682381 -->

00:35:26,696.0682381 Had a certain mindset. 389 00:35:26,696.0682381 --> 00:35:27,766.0682381 You've pushed yourself. 390 00:35:27,786.0682381 --> 00:35:29,466.0682381 When you wanted to sit on the couch, went out for the run. 391 00:35:29,466.0682381 --> 00:35:31,292.5732381 And, um, I feel like that's a big piece that went out for the run. 392 00:35:31,342.5712381 --> 00:35:38,172.5702381 And, um, I feel like that's a big piece that we we don't talk enough about, and it's really fascinating to to me. 393 00:35:38,866.0692381 --> 00:35:39,96.0692381 Yeah. 394 00:35:39,96.0722381 --> 00:35:56,336.0782381 the other thing, I don't know how you've, grade it or weigh it, but you see when you see older people, I- how optimism plays into the way they live their lives. 395 00:35:57,536.0782381 --> 00:36:06,866.0832381 And I think a lot of the successful older people that I know seem really optimistic. 396 00:36:07,76.0812381 --> 00:36:11,286.0842381 they're just, their general nature is upbeat. 397 00:36:11,346.0832381 --> 00:36:12,646.0802381 It's can-do. 398 00:36:12,656.0782381 --> 00:36:14,66.0802381 It's that. 399 00:36:15,286.0752381 --> 00:36:24,466.0592381 Whereas, And maybe, look, if you're having trouble with mobility or if you're in a cognitive decline, I understand it. 400 00:36:25,126.0602381 --> 00:36:29,836.0602381 It's very hard to stay optimistic when you're fighting those kinds of issues. 401 00:36:30,786.0612381 --> 00:36:47,766.0422381 I would add optimism as somehow, I'm not sure how you can build that into people, but I find it in what I would consider people who are having a high quality of life at an older age. 402 00:36:47,816.0472381 --> 00:36:50,476.0462381 they're generally pretty darn optimistic. 403 00:36:50,956.0462381 --> 00:36:51,276.0462381 Yeah. 404 00:36:52,228.5532381 --> 00:36:52,698.5532381 Yeah. 405 00:36:54,148.5532381 --> 00:36:57,888.5532381 Anything else you wanna tell our listeners? This was wonderful. 406 00:36:57,968.5532381 --> 00:37:01,540.0532381 It was really nice to chat chat with you you I'm enjoying it. 407 00:37:01,560.0532381 --> 00:37:02,50.0532381 Thank you. 408 00:37:02,50.0532381 --> 00:37:03,310.0532381 I enjoyed it very much. 409 00:37:03,340.0532381 --> 00:37:10,960.0532381 Good going to listen to this back as a listener because I feel like you had so many little nuggets, and I love all of your quotes and things. 410 00:37:10,960.0532381 --> 00:37:18,290.0532381 And the next time that I wanna sit on the couch instead of go for my run, that saying is going to play in my head. 411 00:37:18,380.0532381 --> 00:37:22,915.5532381 So I'll text you and let you know which option I end up choosing When in doubt, do. 412 00:37:22,915.5532381 --> 00:37:26,615.5532381 When in doubt, do Why wouldn't Dad do it? it. 413 00:37:26,755.5532381 --> 00:37:27,505.5532381 Very good. 414 00:37:27,585.5532381 --> 00:37:29,215.5532381 I enjoyed talking to you, Mary. 415 00:37:29,245.5532381 --> 00:37:31,634.0532381 Thank you very much You too. 416 00:37:31,664.0532381 --> 00:37:32,824.0532381 Thank you so much, George