התמלול המלא של The Mo Egger Radio Show w/ Jason Williams -- 11/5/26

wasn't that Kind of involved in this, too, that we were frustrated that the NCAA, obviously because our arena, the age of it. And I want to say this about the arena. And we don't have an anchor tenant. We don't have an NHL team. We don't have an NBA team. We're not going to get that. That's my opinion. And, you know, the arena is privately owned. And the folks that own the arena, I think, do a fantastic job, given the fact that the doggone thing is 51 years old. But the Cyclones owner, they own the arena. It doesn't cost us any money, taxpayers. But given that, it's the nature of the world we live in, right? All these competing cities that, you know, we compete for, for events. Ben Huffman is, you know, I think at Columbus and Indy, just look at the cities around us. Like you mentioned, Louisville, Charlotte, all those kind of so-called peer cities that, you know, we're always competing for, for, Not just conventions, not just sporting events, but for companies. Hey, we want your company to move here. We want you to bring your jobs here and not to Charlotte or not to Indianapolis. That said, there's so much more to it than a new arena. There's so many more things that we can be getting here. even though we don't have a modern day arena like Indy has or, you know, Columbus goodness, there's what now going on what 25, 26 years old, but still it looks great. There's so much more than just an arena, right? 00:07:33 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:07:33 Speaker 4: There's a lot of different events. I mean, and you mentioned the NCAA and everybody knows the NCAA division one basketball tournament. Cause that's the one on TV every March. However, they have, you know, tens of championships every season in multiple divisions. The NCAA bid portal opens actually next week. We will be bidding on a wide variety of NCAA events from cross country and Voice of America to tennis at the tennis center to rowing in Claremont County. Using the arenas we have with the Cintas Center and Fifth Third and NKU's facility all to do kind of D2, D3 basketball. So as I mentioned at the outset, you know, we have some great facilities here that we can leverage to host events. 00:08:07 Speaker 2: Talk with Ben Huffman. He's an executive director of the Cincinnati National. regional sports commission, which just, you guys launched, was it last summer of 2025, right? You're right. It started at the end of June. It started at the end of June of 2025. And you came over from, uh, Warren County, Ohio's largest, largest play. I was gonna say Vegas, but it's Ohio's largest playground. And when we think of Warren County, uh, certainly, you know, we think of, um, the tennis tournament, which has gotten bigger, better, great facility. Um, Lots of great youth sports tournaments at the Warren County Sports Park and many other places across Warren County. The largest playground being Kings Island. There's even some baseball tournaments that tie Kings Island's name to it. Hey, if you sign up for this tournament, it's part of the packages, tickets for you and your family to Kings Island. You mentioned some of those so-called non-revenue NCAA sports. Ben, basically, again, some of those peer cities, they're bringing these big youth tournaments and NCAA tournaments for women's golf or men's volleyball or other sports that maybe we don't necessarily see all the time on TV. But they're bringing these events there regularly throughout the year, and that's why you're here, right? That's why you're in this seat to get us in the game on us having– A big major event, whether it's some massive, you know, youth baseball tournament to, you know, some, you know, I think you and I talked. There's a New Balance basketball tournaments, national tournaments. We're talking youth high school to everything up to the NFL draft. 00:09:55 Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah. 00:09:56 Speaker 4: And so in the region here, we've done a very good job in the youth and amateur market. You mentioned my Warren County days. And through my time up in Warren County, we built the youth and amateur portfolio to a point where the Convention and Visitors Bureau constructed the Warren County Sports Park. So that is a facility built solely for this tourism driver. It alone was going 125,000 room nights, $ 100 million of economic impact every year out of that facility. But we never had kind of a regional approach to host these other events. So, again, the NCAA tournament, we're going to bid as the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission with all of our partners in our region and bid on a whole bunch of championships that then we'll be able to kind of spread them out over the years and host them all. 00:10:34 Speaker 2: Over the town. Ben Huffman is with me. He's the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission, formed a little over a year and a half now to get us in the game. I use that phrase, get us in the game, us being greater Cincinnati. in the game on getting, you know, making this a destination and a place that the NCAA wants to look at for not just obviously the men's basketball tournament or the women's basketball tournament, but for all kinds of different postseason tournaments and events that they have for, you know, the different, you know, USA, U.S. 00:11:11 Speaker 3: Teams, right? U.S. 00:11:12 Speaker 2: Olympic national teams to look here. um, all the way again, up to the NFL draft. And I'll go, I want to ask you, that was one thing I also wanted to ask you about, um, NFL draft. Uh, you know, I know it's, it's become kind of like, uh, you know, the NBA all-star or the NHL all-star it's become a huge event in that it moves from city to city or major league all-star of, um, game two. Are you and the Sports Commission involved at all with that and talking with the Bengals and the NFL on trying to get that here? I know that that's been a headline here and there over the last year or so. Is that something the Sports Commission is involved in? And if so, where's that at or do we have a shot

at getting it? 00:12:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, 100%. I think we'd be a great host city for it. I think it's public that we have submitted the letter of intent that we'd love to host. And having conversations with the Bengals and the NFL on what that looks like and when. 00:12:12 Speaker 2: Obviously, it's already set for D.C. 00:12:15 Speaker 4: 27, Minnesota 28, 29, and the future is still open, and we'd love to be one of those hosts. 00:12:19 Speaker 2: But that's exactly what a sports commission does, right? 100%. I'm assuming probably a lot of these NFL cities have a Ben Huffman. Yeah, almost every major city has a sports commission, correct. 00:12:36 Speaker 4: And there's a lot of events and a lot of work that goes into recruiting them to town. 00:12:40 Speaker 2: And so you're right in the middle of that. Really, you're the go-to person. I hate to use the term, the middle person in making sure that everything is organized. And I remember that, Ben. I remember covering the whole World Cup bid back in 2020. And I remember that was one of the stories coming out of that is that, and to his credit, Jeff Burding, FC Cincinnati, co-CEO and founder, mover and shaker, obviously many boards in this town, former councilman. You know, Jeff was really, really, really passionate, put in a ton of work and money and a lot of money was raised even just to get, you know, to get to put the bid forth. But I remember that kind of being one of the kind of feedback pieces from, was it FIFA, that we kind of weren't, we just weren't all on the same page necessarily. Is that a fair, and is that? 00:13:44 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of it. I mean, the folks that put that bid together put in a ton of work and effort. But if you're not doing it on a daily basis, I mean, I think I called Jeff Burding right after we submitted our rugby bid. So the Rugby World Cup is looking in 2031. They're coming to the U.S., We've submitted a bid on behalf of Cincinnati to be a host city for that. And the amount of work and effort it took me and my two staff members to get that over the finish line. And that is our full-time job. The folks that were putting that World Cup bid together, it was just the business community trying to do it. So they did a fantastic job. I think, you know, having the sports commission as that hub of our city is what was needed in this town. And our job is basically to connect those. Bengals want to host the NFL draft. We're going to connect the Bengals with the city, county. We're going to connect them with the business community, hotels. And we'll help put together the package. But it's really other people that are going to help us drive our success. 00:14:30 Speaker 2: I've been helping from the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission with me. He's going to hang in there because I've got– there's some unique events that he is bringing to town. He and the sports commissioner are bringing to town. We're going to talk about that. There's plenty of other questions I have for him. Maybe we'll open up, have you weigh in and ask a question as well. But we'll take a break here on ESPN 1530. 00:14:53 Speaker 5: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. 00:14:57 Speaker 6: Traffic. 00:15:02 Speaker 2: Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams in today for Mo Egger, taking a much needed day off. Mo is, I'm not. Sitting in studio with me is Ben Huffman. He's the executive director of the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission in charge of bringing sports Everything from the NFL draft to NCAA tournaments, various NCAA tournaments, to AAU, youth sports, youth baseball, youth this, youth that, anything in between. Frisbee, major international Frisbee competitions. And people may be thinking, what do I care about that? You care because that is money for our economy, right? 00:15:52 Speaker 3: Correct. 00:15:52 Speaker 2: We're talking about and you were just you were just off the air. We were talking your previous job before you came over, you know, before the start of the Sports Commission last last in twenty twenty five. You had been serving in the same role in Warren County and you were mentioning that, you know, again, things that maybe don't make ESPN 1530s headlines or the inquires headlines. But these have a real impact on the community, the day-to-day operations and just the day-to-day vibrancy of our communities are these major sporting events. And you told me that you brought a Frisbee, an international Frisbee tournament here back at Warren County. 00:16:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, 2018, we hosted the World Ultimate Club Championship. So it's ultimate Frisbee. Imagine Frisbee football for those of us that aren't in the world. 100 teams, 35 countries, true international event, $ 10 million of impact, played at a park in Lebanon, Ohio. It really drives impact to your community. And we were talking off air. There was no sports commission at the time. There was no kind of regionalism to work together. And that's one of the things we're really trying to do here. As sports tourism has grown, it's the fastest growing segment in all of travel. More people are spending money traveling to watch their kids play sports. 00:17:08 Speaker 7: Yep. 00:17:08 Speaker 4: The study has switched and shown that youth and amateur sports now drive more impact than professional sports from a tourism aspect just because you're doing it more. And so events like that World Ultimate Frisbee Championships are out there, and they're able for all sorts of communities to host. 00:17:21 Speaker 2: You just need to go out and get them. And one of the things I wanted to ask you about along those lines is when we look at a standard Sunday, it doesn't have to be Sunday, a Bengals game, and we look at, I covered the Bengals game with the Inquirer last week, 66,000 fans and probably thousands of others that were all hanging out outside the stadium still at the tailgate and at the banks, bars, and all that. So when we think about probably darn near 100,000

people for a Bengals game, maybe not quite that, but around that. How does that compare? Again, that's a four or five hour, one day event that we have you know, eight to nine times a year. How does that compare to a major, even a major youth tournament that you'll bring in town? One of the events you brought to town was a New Balance girls basketball tournament this past summer at the convention center, which they turned, who knew they could turn the convention center into 17 basketball courts. Another example of what you're doing, right? I mean, who thought that right now you did and that's a big part of what you're doing here but how would what's the like how do how do those two compare from an economic impact standpoint yeah i. 00:18:45 Speaker 4: Mean it's going to be rare that your youth and amateur event is going to get that you know 60 to 100 000 people obviously in one town so what those pro sports teams do are paramount to you know economic activity in this community what we offer is kind of a longer schedule right so We will be able to go get these high-impact events that come every few years. Again, I mentioned the Rugby World Cup. That's $ 100 million to our community if we get to host that. That's once every five years. What we can do on a weekend basis is anywhere from five to 10,000 hotel room nights, a couple million dollars of impact. We just announced the MLS Next Cup, which is one of the largest youth soccer terms in the country. It's nine days next June. The economic impact of that is almost $ 30 million to our community, so there'll be a about three Bengals games in one event. Now, that isn't every day. That's not most of the things we do. Most of the things we do are more routine, but that is going to give us 50,000 hotel roommates and $ 30 million of impact in one event. 00:19:40 Speaker 2: That's amazing. Another break coming up here, but I got plenty more I want to ask you about. Ben Huffman from the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission, his institute. with me. Jason Williams here on ESPN 1530. Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. 00:19:54 Speaker 8: Traffic. 00:19:54 Speaker 6: From the UC Health. 00:19:55 Speaker 8: ESPN 1530. 00:19:55 Speaker 6: Cincinnati's sports station. 00:20:11 Speaker 2: Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams in for Mo Egger today. Continuing that conversation with Ben Huffman from the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission. What a cool job he has of bringing in, you think about Convention and Visitors Bureau, but for sporting events, anything up from Major League Baseball related, NFL related, MLS-related events, which you have brought one of those, and we'll talk about that in a sec, all the way down to travel baseball tournaments. And Ben, you had mentioned a little bit ago that you and I both are super into, personally, our sons are into youth baseball, and so we're in that world, and so we see it from that perspective, and obviously you see it from the other side of your professional world as well. But you had mentioned earlier about that, that the fastest growing thing in travel is sports. And the fastest growing part of that are, are youth sporting events, travel youth sporting events. I wanted to ask you where, like, where are, where are we at in we being greater Cincinnati? Where do we, are we looked at by, The youth soccer world and the youth baseball world and the youth, whatever basketball world are we looked at as like, oh, we want to go to play in Cincinnati for this, that or that tournament. 00:21:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we're definitely getting there. I mean, the talent here is always very strong. Again, for my Warren County days, the. Soccer and baseball was so strong. That's what we built there because we knew teams would want to come to play our talent. Spooky Nook and Hamilton is obviously starting to drive some of that. Basketball and volleyball. And then we've got a variety of private, you know, six to eight core facilities that are leveraging that too for sports. 00:22:12 Speaker 2: So, yeah, I do believe we are that. 00:22:13 Speaker 4: We're also drivable for so many people that it's an easy, you know, we were talking offline about, you know, having your out of town trip be not a get everybody on a plane or fly somewhere. 00:22:22 Speaker 7: Right. 00:22:23 Speaker 4: You know, you can get here from a lot of places. So we are, you know, a really good youth and amateur destination. We're trying to hit harder on the sports commission side on specifically the amateur side. So we had a USA fencing event once. There was a good event this past February down at the convention center, 2000 fencers from all over the country came in, had a wonderful experience so much so that they rebooked for April. They're coming back again. And we're kind of playing that route as well. 00:22:47 Speaker 2: And again, the, the, you and I, when we sat down in the, what we sat down in the summer and had lunch together and, uh, you know, I'd said something like, you know, you, you, you want the NFL draft, you want those big splashy events that are going to put you on the, the national, in some cases, international, uh, stage where your, your city shining. And when the, you know, they're on TV and showing the blimp and the drone footage of your downtown and some, um, people eating at Clifton skyline and, you know, all that stuff. We, we like, you want that, but what about it all? What about all those things in between the times we get that? And, you know, we got the all-star game here in 2015 and it was a tremendous showcase for Cincinnati across the globe. Um, but you know, we're not going to get another MLB all-star game for probably what another 20 years. 00:23:38 Speaker 3: What is it? 00:23:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was 10 years ago. So you think about there's 30 teams of every 29, 30 years. Um, These events, the U.S. fencing event, a youth baseball tournament, the New Balance girls basketball tournament that you brought to the convention

center this summer, those are the things that, for the most part, we haven't been in on. And those are the things that are now going to really have real economic impact and what I kind of joke with you, keep the lights on, so to speak. 00:24:09 Speaker 3: Correct. 00:24:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting. 00:24:10 Speaker 4: You know, sports travel, they've done all these studies and they're trying to, you know, have our industry look and see where we can make a difference in these cities. And studies will tell you that you're two to three times more likely to move to a city you've traveled to for a sporting event. So as I started, you know, interview for this job, our major corporations in town, the Kroger's and Procter and Gamble's and TQL's were all, you know, talking about how they want to raise the profile of the city to recruit and retain talent. And so those big flashy events, the NFL draft, the Rugby World Cup, those things help with that. From an economic development perspective, you never know if, you know, Bill Johnson owns some widget company and he comes in here with his kid to play a baseball tournament. And he's like, Oh man, Cincinnati was great. And then ready pops in and brings his company to our town. So there's a lot of long-term economic development as well. Because over the course of the year, we're going to draw a lot more people. And again, over the course of a full calendar year, we're going to get a lot more people in town for those, you know, that use soccer tournaments. And you and I both, you more so than me have, you've spent many, many a Saturday and Sunday at the Warren County sports park, And you know how full that place is. And you look across there and you're like, not all these people are from 10 minutes down the road. These folks are staying in hotels and spending money at our restaurants and stopping at our shops and going to Kings Island and the Cincinnati Zoo and all that. 00:25:32 Speaker 2: What would be, I guess, your bigger picture goal? Is it to. 00:25:41 Speaker 2: Are you in the process of recruiting outside youth national tournaments to here, whatever sport that is? Or are those really in place now and all your job is to try to keep growing those and pitch those to make those even more popular? It's all of the above. 00:26:01 Speaker 4: So we have clients such as Perfect Game, which is one of the biggest baseball providers in the country. They have bought the Cincy Flames, so they run a lot of the club baseball tournaments. King's hammer soccer, Cincinnati soccer run these events. So those are in place, whether we're here or not, our job with them is to help amplify their message and get more people in from out of town for these events. So they have 64 teams. If I can get 60 of them to stay in a hotel, that's better than eight. So we're trying to help amplify their message to get more people out of town. At the same time, we're trying to fill our facilities in a way where we are recruiting these one-off national championships that will move around to a variety of different facilities. So You know, the fencing we mentioned, but then MLS Next Cup, the big youth soccer tournament, that was in Salt Lake last year. And it's coming here this year. And it won't be back here for another 10 or 15 years. 00:26:44 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the MLS. And this, just what MLS made the official announcement a couple weeks ago, within the last month. This is so far, of all the work you've done in the year and a half, you guys have officially been launched. This is so far your crown jewel event that you've brought in. Talk about MLS Next, the impact, how many people are going to be here, how many people are going to stay in hotels, the economic impact. But then also, what could that do by getting that here? What could that mean for the future of getting more events? It doesn't have to be soccer. I don't think it could be more soccer. But, yeah, talk about that event and what it is and its impact. 00:27:31 Speaker 4: Yeah, so the MLS Next Cup is the club event. soccer tournament most of the mls teams have an mls next team so fc cincinnati has a club team that's u16 u18 they play in this mls next cup there are a variety of other clubs that have clubs within this so 650 teams will come here to play for what is their version of a national championship be here for nine days we worked at fc cincinnati worked with the butler county folks at voice of america worked with warren county folks the warren county sports parks put together a package that recruited this event to town and you know as i mentioned earlier there was no kind of regional player that could tie all those together prior to our organization. Our organization started, I got everybody together in a room. We started talking about how we can go to recruit this event. 00:28:09 Speaker 2: And then it came to town. 00:28:10 Speaker 4: It'll, we'll have about 35,000 participants between players and families. There'll be about 500 to a thousand college coaches will be in town to watch these players. 00:28:19 Speaker 2: And then as well as this is a real impact when it comes to hotel nights and correct. 00:28:23 Speaker 4: They've already secured 37, 37,000 hotel room nights. Currently we expect about 50,000 to be booked by the time the event comes and goes and, which would then generate about $ 30 million into our county. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: How about that? $ 30 million. Yep. $ 30 million we currently aren't getting. And that's going to be, we're going to get to a break here, but that's coming up next summer, right? End of June next summer. End of June next summer. Ben Huffman is with the Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission. He's going to be here for a few more minutes after the break here on ESPN 1530. Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams in for Mo Egger today. Thanks to Taryn Bland for producing the show, keeping this thing in line. Ben Huffman from the Cincinnati

Regional Sports Commission remains in studio with me and really have enjoyed our conversation, Ben. And the handful of times we've talked, I've always enjoyed that and You know, Gary Lindgren, who's the board chair, I always have great conversations with him about the work you're doing and other things that the Cincinnati Business Committee does and they're a huge supporter and backer of uh of the sports commission and i just i'd love the fact that we are in the game and we're it's it's not an overnight fix it's not an overnight thing and we don't have unlimited resources and you know we talked at the top of the hour about uh you know the arena situation where There are certain things that we're just not going to get and we're not going to be looked at because of that. And that is what it is, so to speak. But in your work, Ben, you got to be thinking creatively. And we've seen here, even here locally, but in recent memory, we're seeing some unique sporting events. You know, I'm thinking back to, you know, we've been seeing, we saw Nebraska volleyball. have an outdoor volleyball. Was that last year, maybe, or within the last few years? And they sold out Memorial Stadium out in Lincoln. Here locally, just last month, we had Xavier, UC, Dayton, and Ohio State come together for the outdoor basketball tournament at the Lindner Family Tennis Center. Beautiful day. So cool to watch those guys out there. Will we, and then even... not necessarily traditional sports uh you tell me about this one you you're bringing a a stein care national stein carrying contest to town. 00:31:10 Speaker 4: Yeah so we actually uh when i first started in june i had a you know previous relationship with greg hardman with the more line lager house now the cincinnati lager house and we talked about this opportunity as the u.s stein holding championship so it's the national championships of holding a stein of beer up for as long as you can Hosted it last year. It's kind of the kickoff to their Chris Kendall Market downtown. We probably had about 2,500 people there, to the point where the tent was so full we had to kick people away. This year, it's November 21st, same spot. There will be no tent, so as many people can get in there as possible. We hope to kind of grow this event over time. It is a unique event. There are about 30 different state champions that are flown in for this event. Last year, a gentleman from Texas won it. woman from Ohio, but they had competitors from Alaska and Wyoming and California and came from all over to compete for the championship. 00:32:01 Speaker 2: I love that. Do you see us doing more? I mean, we have venues and we can do a lot of outdoor things. Do you see us doing or at least trying to do some unconventional things like another outdoor basketball event? game and maybe making it bigger or another, an outdoor volleyball, college volleyball match or, you know, things like that. 00:32:22 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:32:22 Speaker 4: You know, obviously our mission is to drive impact in, you know, sports in any way we can. Um, you know, I think one unique opportunity that has been brought to us is we're gonna host a, an international point race, uh, mountain bike competition, um, in Northern Kentucky. And, you know, that's another, you know, something that probably isn't on everybody's top of mind, but there are people that travel all over the world. to compete in these mountain bike races and we're a level three and we'll grow that over time and hopefully, you know, kind of be an international destination for that. Um, to your point, the unique opportunities from the women's volleyball side and the outdoor using facilities in different ways is where myself and my team can get really creative and see what we can put together and put, uh, produce. 00:33:00 Speaker 2: Um, real quick before you go, you start, you start a year, a little, almost a year and a half ago when you launched the sports commission, Ben, um, from that time until like, you know, what was the economic impact of, I don't know if you have that number, what was the economic impact of, of sport generally or sports around that time? And then what do you, what is the ultimate, I guess probably ultimate goal is whatever the sky's the limit, but what would you hope to grow that to? Yeah. 00:33:31 Speaker 4: To give you a snapshot over the last three years, 2025, when we first started, kind of the impact of travel sports before our organization was about 25,000 room nights in the, you know, 15 to $ 17 million range. So it was still was happening. It was still occurring 26. We will end with about 45,000 hotel room nights, almost double. We'll do about 35 million in impact. 00:33:51 Speaker 2: So over double. 00:33:52 Speaker 4: And then next year we're going to be close to a hundred thousand room nights. 00:33:54 Speaker 2: Thanks MLS next. 00:33:55 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:33:55 Speaker 4: And then we'll be in almost the 40 to $ 50 million economic impact range. So able to grow that over time. And then obviously, as you said, the sky's the limit and we can keep going. 00:34:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ben Huffman, Dan, great work with the Cincinnati Sports, Cincinnati Regional, I've got to get regional in there, Cincinnati Regional Sports Commission. Thanks so much for what you're doing, and it's important work that you're bringing in. People are like, oh, sports. Sports are important. Sports bring, as you just said, those are real numbers. They impact a lot of lives, whether you're playing sports, whether you work in sports, it's an entire industry. And so, Thanks for all you're doing. Thanks for all that, uh, Gary and, uh, the Cincinnati business committee and regional business committee are doing all your different partners. Um, and Seth Walsh, you know, from, uh, he just got, uh, elected state treasurer from city council. I know he was huge and other others were as well, but keep up the great work and, uh, Look forward to staying in touch with

you. And a year from now, hearing that those numbers are going to be even probably crazier and higher than you even just said. Yeah, well, thank you so much. 00:35:00 Speaker 4: And I really appreciate all of our partners to get this thing going and hopefully bigger and bigger things for all of us. 00:35:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome. 00:35:05 Speaker 3: Thanks, Ben. 00:35:07 Speaker 2: Let's take a break here on ESPN 1530. Paid for by auto discount policy. Cincinnati's Sports Station. Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams in for Mo Egger. He's taking a much needed day off. I thought of this guy, I wanted when I was going to host the show today, my first thought was having my next guest on. I wanted to catch up with him. I just talked to him a couple of weeks ago. He and I did the That's So Cincinnati podcast together at the Inquirer talking about Bob Huggins going into the university, James P. Kelly Athletics Hall of Fame at UC. And I thought, you know, I want to continue that conversation with my friend Bill Cook, a former Inquirer and Post reporter, author. He's written some fantastic books, including one on Bob Huggins' hugs that came out of 2022 I think is when it came out and wanted to now after the fact that that Hall of Fame event happened in the wake of the announcement of Bob Huggins having cognitive some cognitive I don't have the official thing in front of me but cognitive issues and wanted to check in with Bill and see what he thought in the wake of the Hall of Fame and I know he went to an event where he got to see Huggs and Bill, how are you doing? 00:36:47 Speaker 3: I'm good, Jason. How are you? 00:36:50 Speaker 2: I'm good. Hey, thanks for joining me here. I know you and I talked a couple weeks ago before the Hall of Fame event, but I wanted to catch back up with you and see if you could share a few hug stories. How was it when you saw them and you went to a dinner with them the night before the event and there was a bunch of players there? How was that and did you get a chance to say hi to them? 00:37:15 Speaker 3: I did. The dinner was at the original Montgomery Inn, and there were a lot of former UC players there, not just ones who played for Huggs, but there were some other ones, too. So that was cool. But for me, it was really nice to reconnect with some of the guys that I covered over so many years, like going all the way back to Roger McClendon, who played for Tony Gates in the late 80s, and I really enjoyed talking to him. and, uh, Danny Fortson, one of my favorite players, not just because of the way he played, but he was just such a good guy to talk to. Um, so it was, yeah, it was, it was, uh, I was a little, uh, apprehensive maybe as the word, because I, I didn't, you know, I was just a reporter. I wasn't part of the program as I didn't want to make, I kind of felt like I was crashing the party, but, uh, Terry Nelson invited me, which was nice of him to do. So, um, I figured I'd, I do. I figured I'd go. And I was really glad that I did because I really had a good time. And yes, I did talk briefly to hugs. Um, I wasn't sure how that would go. I, I had, uh, assumed that he probably would not remember me just from what I've heard about the cognitive decline issues he was going through. And, uh, I figured maybe I'd be one of the guys he'd want to forget. Um, so I, so I, so I waited a while and, uh, Maybe an hour into the dinner was like a buffet kind of thing where you just go and get the ribs and sit down. I was sitting with Jared Calhoun for a while. Then after a while, Huggs was busy through this whole thing because so many of his players were going up to him and hugging him and talking to him. You could see you'd see the love that they had for him and you could see on his face, what it meant to him to be, to be with us, with his guys. He always used to call him his, my guys, my guys. And you could tell how much that meant to him to be. 00:39:08 Speaker 2: With him again. 00:39:10 Speaker 3: So when I got a little opening, I just walked over and I said, I didn't, I didn't want to say, Hey, Hey Bob, you remember me? Right. Yeah. I just said, Hey Bob, I just wanted to congratulate you on being inducted into UC's hall of fame and, he turned around and he said, oh, thanks, Bill. So I got that out of the way right away. And I told him it was long overdue. And I said, I don't know what else to say, really. I said, are you in West Virginia's Hall of Fame? And he goes, I don't know. 00:39:43 Speaker 2: You know, Bill. 00:39:44 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think he is. And I thought, what a dumb question that was to ask this guy. So anyway, uh, I just basically got out of the way. But then I, the next day, uh, Jared Calhoun invited everybody who was at that dinner to go to UC practice the next day. So, you know, I was never a real big fan of hanging around practice when I was a reporter, although I did it in the early Huggins days because it was so entertaining. But, um, but, uh, so I decided to go and, uh, Again, there were some players there, and Huggs was there. But as I was walking through Lindner Center to get on the elevator to get down to the practice gym, I saw Huggs go on and some other players, and the door started to close. And Damon Flint was on there, and I kind of pushed open the door to get on. And I got on, and Huggs said to Damon, Damon, why'd you let him on after all the nasty stuff he wrote about you? 00:40:38 Speaker 2: Oh, same old Huggs. 00:40:41 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:40:41 Speaker 2: In a lot of ways. 00:40:43 Speaker 3: Yeah. But yeah, I'm really glad I went. And I went to the induction ceremony the next day. I sat in the audience with my general admission ticket. I wanted to go for several reasons to see Huggs get inducted, but also to see and Jason Kelsey because I really enjoyed covering those guys when they were there, too. Yeah, it was cool. Huggs didn't talk at the induction. As you probably know by now, Dan Hoare just talked to Kenyon

Martin and Steve Logan and Nick Van Exel about their relationship with Huggs, and. 00:41:17 Speaker 9: That was pretty cool. 00:41:19 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it was. I saw some stuff online about it. Bill Cook, sports writer, author, who. 00:41:27 Speaker 2: Covered hugs from day one when he was the beat reporter at the Cincinnati Post, went on to be Cincinnati Post columnist, then came over to the Enquirer and covered hugs through, well, the rest of his time at UC. And the expert, no one in the media knows hugs better than Bill Cook does. And Bill, you know, as you were talking there, It made me, and this is something I've never asked you of all the stories I've asked you to tell and tell again and then again. I never asked what your first, do you remember the first time you saw Huggs coach when you went to a practice? And do you remember that? And if so, what was that like? Because you had been covering really a dormant UC program for many years. And then this guy comes in and obviously we all, we all know the story about how they just rocket, you know, to the final four, what a couple of years in. And do you, do you remember that first time you, you saw him or, you know, beyond the press conference, you know, where he was really kind of in his element. 00:42:36 Speaker 3: I remember it very well. I had covered UC for Tony H's last three years. And you're right. The program was mostly dormant. They, Last year, maybe the last two years, they played their home games at the Gardens, which was Xavier's home court at the time. So that couldn't have been any more insulting, I guess. They were drawing crowds of like 3,000 or 4,000, and they weren't very good. And so the first day, Huggs' first practice, he had had some tryouts, because they only had eight scholarship players, and they needed to find some players to fill out the roster, one of whom was Steve Sanders, who hit the game-winning shot in the first game played at Fifth Third Arena, well, Shoemaker Center then. Anyway, the first practice, Tom Gresham, the late Tom Gresham, my friend, he has an inquire. Pete Ryder, I was opposed to Pete Ryder. Back then, you could... you could watch practice. And so practice didn't go very long. And I remember it was, uh, uh, who was a player Orlando Williams from Princeton high school. He was, he would have been on Tony eights and he got knocked down and he was just kind of laying on the floor and not getting right up and hugs jumped right on him and said, Orlando, get up off the floor. The refs aren't going to wait for you to get up during a game, and we're not going to wait for you either. Orlando had this stunned look on his face. He got back up to his feet, and then a few minutes later, they had another player named Brady Hughes, and he took a charge, and Huggs just went crazy like he had just hit a game-winning shot in the Final Four. He ran out on the court, and he went, Brady, Brady, that's the way to do it, Brady. You'll play here a lot if you do that. So already he was teaching the and I'll be a tough guy and do the little things. You could see it right away. And the other thing I remember is Chuck Maychuck was working with, he was a volunteer coach on that team. He was working with the big men at one end and the guards were at the other end. And I remember LaVertis Robinson and Keith Starks, who else was down there. But you could hear Chuck's voice, like his, his, like this deep voice, like a foghorn reverberating over through the gym, yelling at these guys because their footwork wasn't correct. And they never worried about their footwork before. 00:44:48 Speaker 9: Right. 00:44:48 Speaker 3: LaVerse Rollins could jump out of the gym. He never cared about footwork. And Chuck was on those guys. And I could see the looks on their faces like they had wandered into the wrong gym. Like, oh, my God, what have we gotten ourselves into here? 00:45:02 Speaker 2: They'd never been coached before, really. 00:45:04 Speaker 3: Not like that. 00:45:05 Speaker 2: They hadn't, no. 00:45:06 Speaker 3: But they found out real quick that there was a new sheriff in town. 00:45:10 Speaker 2: Was Huggs, was he. 00:45:14 Speaker 2: With the language and just the demanding demeanor, I know you just obviously mentioned a few things there. Was he like that from day one? And I came to the beat there for a few years at the Post when you were over at the Enquirer. Did he evolve in that role, or was he really the same guy in practice from day one? 00:45:35 Speaker 3: I don't think Huggs is big on evolving. 00:45:42 Speaker 9: He showed up. 00:45:43 Speaker 3: He showed up like that on day one. That's just who he was. And he didn't make any apologies for anything. So he was. And I remember, you know, back then practice was open and he didn't care what he said. He didn't care what anybody, anybody could go. And sometimes kids would come in, like, with their coaches, bring their kids in. And they would, you know, Huggs would treat them nice. He'd have the managers give him, like, a copy of the practice schedule and everything. But he didn't change his language. 00:46:11 Speaker 10: Yeah. 00:46:12 Speaker 3: And he just didn't care. But I asked him one time about having practice open. I said, like, a lot of coaches don't do that. Aren't you afraid people are going to see things that they shouldn't? He said, Bill, I don't have anything to hide. 00:46:24 Speaker 9: Well, as the years. 00:46:27 Speaker 3: Went by, And everybody started closing practice. And the advent of the internet, people would start to go to practice and put stuff online about what they saw at practice. Then he started shutting it down. But I could still go. But no, he didn't. It wasn't a matter of if he evolved into that. That's who he was when he showed up. In fact, he was, according to some of the players who I talked to from my book about him, the guys who played for him at Akron, he was a lot easier on these guys than he was on them when they were at

Akron. 00:46:56 Speaker 2: Oh, really? 00:46:56 Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah. 00:46:57 Speaker 2: I remember you and your book, uh, hug, your book hugs came out in 2022. And, uh, it's, it's an awesome book where you do, you go through, you talk to the players from hugs career all the way from his days at Walsh college, uh, through Akron, Kansas state or UC Kansas state, West Virginia and anywhere. Obviously those were all of his places that he stopped. You talk, you talk to folks from all those stops and it's just a great collection of, of, stories and so i'm sure that had to be really a really special thing for you to to see having you knew that all those years but for you to invest in that book and to really even even more so understand just how much uh those players he meant to the players and vice versa for you to go and then to the event a week and a half ago and see some of those guys i bet had to be a really a really cool experience. 00:47:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. I mean, I knew that his players were very loyal to him, but I didn't know the extent of it until I wrote that book. And I remember when I interviewed Terrence Gibson, I was talking to him on the phone and he was driving in his car. And he told me a story about how when he came to UC, Terrence wasn't a big, he was Huggs' first recruit at UC. He wasn't a big high school star. He wasn't being recruited by a lot of schools. So he said he got there and he realized he wasn't as good as a lot of those guys. But he said, I can work harder. I can dive on the ball. I can play harder than anybody else. So that's what he did. And so he said at some point during that season, Huggs asked him, he said, because he knew he was not going to play in the NBA. He said, Terrence, what do you want to get out of this? And Terrence said, I told him I just want to be able to get a good job to take care of my family. So years later, Huggs was, I think it was there was a party at his house or maybe it was Thanksgiving or something. New Year's Eve, I think it was. Some of the players out there. And he said to Terrence, Terrence, did I uphold my end of the bargain? And Terrence said, you did that and more, Huggs. And then he started crying on the phone. started crying and he said I'm sorry man hang on I'm sorry and I just get like this when I talk about him When I heard that, I realized just how much that guy meant to the lives of these people. Now, I saw a tennis at that practice last week. He's 57 years old. He's got two grandchildren. He's been working at JTM for, I don't know, ever since he left UC. Couldn't be happier. His life has gone well. He came here from Dothan, Alabama. He didn't even have a coat. He had to go out and buy. 00:49:42 Speaker 2: Him a coat. 00:49:43 Speaker 3: When I heard that, I had an idea. 00:49:46 Speaker 2: That's one thing I've always appreciated. The fact that you've helped fans understand that there's so much more to that guy than the guy who's stomping his feet and yelling at the top of his lungs and veins popping out on the sideline or in practice. Or, you know, at times saying some things that are like, what are you doing? Like there's so, so much more to Bob Huggins and appreciate that, you know, the things that you, like I said, you understand them and know them better than anyone else in the media and more than a lot of other people who weren't in the media even. So I know Mo had you on, Bill. We were talking about your Hugs book, obviously, but you've written several books. How many books are you up to now? 00:50:37 Speaker 3: Eleven. 00:50:37 Speaker 2: Eleven books. And I remember your first one, The Pride of Price Hill, about Elder. That was your first one, right? 00:50:42 Speaker 3: That's right, yeah. I knew that you remember that. 00:50:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that. I remember that very much. I remember when it came out, and I actually bought a copy. There was a guy who went to Elder who really helped me when I was a student at UC. Tom Kadenkamp was a player at Elder, and I think he was mentioned in the book, so I bought him a copy of it. I remember it. 00:51:06 Speaker 3: I remember when I, when I, when I presented with the idea and they said they would do it. And then I remember going home thinking, okay, well, I wonder how you write a book. I don't know. I'm not sure I know how to do this. 00:51:23 Speaker 4: Here we are. 00:51:24 Speaker 2: 11, 11 later. 00:51:26 Speaker 3: And, and still not sure. I keep trying. 00:51:32 Speaker 2: Hey man, you've been crack. Cause I want to say you had the hugs in 2022 and then, The Greg Cook book came out after that one, right? 00:51:42 Speaker 3: Correct. 00:51:42 Speaker 2: What was that? Was that 24? 00:51:44 Speaker 3: I think I worked on it mostly in 23. It probably came out in 24. 00:51:51 Speaker 2: And that was a definitive story. I would encourage an unfinished painting. Greg Cook, who was... The Joe Burrow, who never was because of injuries. I would encourage people to get that one. And then your latest that just came out, and I know Mo had you on earlier in the fall to talk about it, but your book about Buddy La Rosa, The Life and Times of Cincinnati. Well, it's called Buddy, The Life and Times of Cincinnati Icon Buddy La Rosa, The Pizza King. The Pizza King's not part of the title, but what got you just, you know, what prompted you to want to do that, that one? What was that? What really got you into that project? 00:52:32 Speaker 3: Well, I've been on the LaRoses, the selection committee for the LaRoses high school hall of fame for many years. And, uh, one night after our meeting, I guess it was, uh, last year, year before last, I guess, whenever I wrote that, I lose track. Anyway, uh, his son, it was a 50th anniversary of the hall of fame and his sons, Mike and Mark were talking about how it came about. And, uh, And then they talked a little bit about their dad and things I hadn't known about him. And I also knew that he had a connection with

Aaron Pryor, probably the greatest boxer to ever come out of Cincinnati and one of the best to ever come out of the United States. I knew he had done that, so I had a sports angle, so I'd be more comfortable. Anyway, I asked Mike LaRosa, his son, if anybody had tried to write a book about Buddy LaRosa. And he said, no. And so I said, well, I'd like to do it. And so he said, okay. And I did it. That's how, that's how it came about. He's, it's, you know, he has a very interesting life. Um, you know, he, he, he lives three miles from where he grew up in South Fairmount. Um, his mother, his mother, uh, left his father because his father abused her. His father abused her and she moved it back into her childhood home. And she took a little buddy with him and that's where he grew up. And, Now he's like, as you call him, the pizza king and very wealthy. But he's still not far from his roots. So he was a really interesting guy to talk to. He's 96 years old. 00:54:02 Speaker 2: 96. I saw him, Burl Love and I at Earthen Choir. We went to a Golden Gloves event at Montgomery Inn. I want to say that was in September, maybe. early October. 00:54:14 Speaker 10: Yeah. 00:54:14 Speaker 3: And, uh, yeah, yeah. 00:54:16 Speaker 2: It's a neat event. And, uh, we, we talked to him there and I mean, he looks, he's, he's sharp. I mean, you would never know he's 96. I mean, you know, he's certainly elderly, but like sharp, great, great chatting with him and a lot of energy. And, uh, I'm glad you did that project. Uh, and I just, I got to run here, Bill, and thanks so much for your time, but I want to make sure if you just go to amazon.com, Punch in. I just did this. You punch in in the search engine, Bill Cook, K-O-C-H, and all Bill's books come up there. The Buddy one pops up first. The Hugs one pops up second. And you can go on down the list and look at all the projects and books and encourage you to buy one, too, on Amazon.com. Just search for Bill Cook name and all of his books come up there. Bill, I always appreciate you. 00:55:06 Speaker 3: Yes, Jason. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. 00:55:09 Speaker 2: See you, bud. Thank you. 00:55:10 Speaker 3: Bye. 00:55:11 Speaker 2: Let's take a break here on ESPN 1530. 00:55:15 Speaker 5: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic. 00:55:20 Speaker 6: This is football in the natty. 00:55:22 Speaker 11: Brought to you by Belterra Casino and Belterra Park on ESPN 1530. 00:55:29 Speaker 6: The official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. 00:55:37 Speaker 2: Welcome back to 1530 ESPN, 1530. Jason Williams in for Mo Egger today. Talking hugs there with my friend Bill Cook. We're going to switch gears and keep talking UC basketball. Hugs' protege, Jared Calhoun. Game number two tonight in the Calhoun era against Green Bay at 7 o'clock. We'll talk all about that. And Coach Calhoun, not super pleased with his debut today. victory over american on monday night we'll ask scott springer from the inquirer all about that coming up on espn 1530.

00:56:14 Speaker 11: You've been listening to football in the natty brought to you by kingdom built exteriors on espn 1530 the official home of the cincinnati bangles a root. 00:56:26 Speaker 2: Is sports station espn 1530 Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams from the Cincinnati Enquirer, cincinnati.com, in for Mo Egger today. Thanks for joining me. Had some great conversations with Ben Huffman, Bill Cook. Going to continue on with my star-studded list of guests. Continue to talk about UC basketball. Can it get back? I was telling someone recently, I covered, I covered the, but I didn't tell him, I was I covered the Bearcats earlier in my career for the old Cincinnati Post, what, three years on the beat and the early 2000s during the Huggins years. And I was telling one of my buddies that when you see basketball is humming along and playing at a high level, they– From a popularity and interest and an energy and a buzz standpoint, they rival the Reds and Bengals. And he couldn't believe it. And I'm like, you just watch. If Jared Calhoun can get this thing going, I know it's a different era, NIL and all that stuff. But if UC basketball can get back to being a perennial NCAA tournament team with some deep runs here and there, You're going to feel that energy in this town around when you feel when the Bengals are winning and, well, when the Reds have opening day. Or you can't really say the Reds are winning because they haven't won forever. But anyway, let's keep talking UC basketball. Jared Calhoun off his first career win with the Bearcats on Monday night over American. Wasn't easy. I'm here to talk about that and more in tonight's game. My friend from the Enquirer, the UC Bearcats beat reporter, Scott Springer. Scotty, how are we, son? 00:58:43 Speaker 3: I'm good. 00:58:43 Speaker 9: I got my leaves all chopped up. I'm ready to go down to the ballgame, and then I got to catch a plane in the morning and go to Houston for football. So plenty to do, and then the leaves will be back by the time I get home, right? 00:58:55 Speaker 2: They'll be back by the time you get home tonight. More than likely, yeah. Life in the Big 12, all over the place. You've already traveled out to Arizona this year, right? Where else have you gone? 00:59:13 Speaker 9: You kind of forget after a while. Arizona, where have I been? 00:59:19 Speaker 2: Going to Houston, which you would have been going there anyway because they were American. 00:59:22 Speaker 9: TQL there, Jason. We went to TQL. 00:59:24 Speaker 2: TQL, that's right. That's right. 00:59:26 Speaker 9: Or Morgantown. 00:59:27 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, Morgantown, right. 00:59:29 Speaker 9: Morgantown's a drive trip. And then you've got Houston and Iowa State and BYU yet. So you've got three of four on the road here, which is not easy in the Big 12. And then factor in that two of those teams are ranked, and Houston 17th and BYU 7th for now. And it's one of the tougher schedules a football team has had. 00:59:51 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 00:59:52 Speaker 9: People don't want to hear that. But, yeah, it's tough. It's going to be tough to get the sixth and maybe the seventh win, and I think they kind of need to get the seventh. 01:00:05 Speaker 8: Woof. 01:00:06 Speaker 2: That's brutal. 01:00:08 Speaker 9: It's very brutal. 01:00:10 Speaker 2: Let's talk about more positive things. UC basketball. 01:00:15 Speaker 9: One guy just said this place really gets humming when the Bearcats are going, so you're right. Although the last time the Reds had the city humming was about 1990, and then Huggs and the guys– was 91 and 92 in the final four, which I was at the Metrodome and then the following year, the elite eight. Uh, so yeah, my, my, my son's always bellyache about what I saw with the reds, but they do remember quite a bit of the UC basketball, uh, years. And, um, you know, two of them have degrees from there and the other two have been fans from, uh, you know, when I was doing games on radio and everything else. So, uh, to your point, yeah, it's, People have not seen it. And keep in mind, the building used to hold 13,176. It's 12,012 now. And your last sellout was last year's BYU game on senior night. Jared Calhoun, he wants a sellout on Monday. The other night he said on the radio show he wanted 10,000 tonight because they were 94-20 in game one, and he wants a sellout for Minnesota on Monday. So if they take care of business, then the pressures on the fans show up. You've got a Big Ten team. 01:01:28 Speaker 2: The Gophers coming in. 01:01:32 Speaker 9: Yeah. So I like the way they play, you know, awfully early. He mentioned a win total the other night that made me feel good because off the top of my head, I went with 21. 01:01:44 Speaker 3: I said 11-10. 01:01:46 Speaker 9: Um, non-conference and 21 total. And I thought that might do it. And that's kind of what he said. So we're in agreement. Not that I know as much as Jared Calhoun, but, uh, that's where I thought that they could be. And it's just such a different squad. Um, uh, you know, they have that we over me that goes all over practice, all spends around the, uh, The scoreboard as a practice in their fifth or arena. And they really pound that in and they're buying into it because, you know, eight minutes into the game the other night, he had played 13 players. And when he goes five in and five out, you don't see slip up. Where when Wes would do it, you kind of felt like, well, was this part of these guys' NIL deals that they had to come in at the five-minute mark or what? Because there was drop-off, and sometimes you'd wonder, well, why are you taking these guys out? Because the other five were on the roll. 01:02:40 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you bring that up, and Scott Springer from the Enquirer covers the Bearcats, joins us here on ESPN 1530. And Scott, you. 01:02:52 Speaker 2: You know, we talk about the I was talking with Bill Cook a little bit ago about hugs and hugs going on the Hall of

Fame. And I didn't get a chance to ask because I knew you were coming up about the current team. But it's interesting because I was thinking about hugs when when Jared Calhoun the other night, you know, he was not pleased with how they played. And you like that you like that bit of honesty. And that's a season opener. And you even you wrote in your story, they had a cake cake waiting for him. there after the game, as is, you know, congratulate him on his first game at UC and they win, they beat American 79 to 53, ultimately. But they're only up two at halftime and Jared Calhoun and, you know, and somewhat who coached under Huggs and somewhat Huggs fashion was really honest about it. He let, let everybody know he wasn't happy about it. And, but on the flip side, his teams aren't they aren't like hugs teams. I mean, this is like scoring, scoring's a big deal to him. And, uh, we all, we all remember those hugs teams that struggled to, to, to make baskets. Uh, what, what do you make? 01:03:57 Speaker 9: I mean, are you seeing same with Mick in a way? I mean, it was first one to 60 sometimes. And, uh, So, yeah, he really likes offense. He likes to get up and down, and they do take a fair amount of threes. But the ball movement is generally pretty good. He wasn't happy, obviously, in the first half with the ball movement and some of the shot selections and all that. And, again, that was, I think, maybe... first game jitters. They did have an 11 point lead with like three 37 to go in the first half and then didn't score anything, but two free throws. And that's what made it close at halftime. And then about three quarters, about five minutes into the second half, they took off and did what they should have done. The food chain normally prevails, but you just never know when it's going to prevail. But yeah, those games are good in a way. They have to feel some pressure and, And you have to know that you can't take anyone lightly because otherwise you have an Eastern Michigan loss on your hand like they did last year. And that was unpleasant. 01:05:00 Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you, Scotty, I was a little bit worried about that by halftime the other night. And they didn't play well, and they're only up two at halftime. 01:05:10 Speaker 3: And I. 01:05:12 Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm not the only one that had a little bit of flashbacks of eastern Michigan. You're thinking, oh, no, no, no. 01:05:21 Speaker 9: You've done this. 01:05:22 Speaker 2: You know how this works. 01:05:23 Speaker 9: You kind of write and tilt the story one way. 01:05:25 Speaker 2: I never tilt a story. Come on now. 01:05:31 Speaker 9: Everyone has a tilt and a price. 01:05:33 Speaker 2: Exactly. 01:05:39 Speaker 9: But yeah, you know where you're going with the story. I mean, there are 200 something in the Ken Palm and you're 31. It's like you're supposed to be. They should have been eating the cake with five minutes to go. But instead, you know, it was a little tight, but. You know,

here's where NL comes in. You can get guys, and guys will take money. And sometimes teams are a little better than you think because they've been able to get a few guys. And you see this more in football. I think you see more Big 12 parity in football. But, you know, those are scholarship players, too. They're getting money, too. They found a way to shut down the one guy at halftime, Madden. Collins, Madden Collins. So it was MJ Collins prevailing with UC and Madden Collins had like 14 and a half, not only six in the second half, but you know, they sold a ball a ton. They had 15 steals to four. They had way many, they had more assists. They out-rebounded them by 16, but it took, you know, a little encouragement and confidence in the second half to get it going. Now tonight they got the Green Bay Phoenix who two years ago only won four games and Doug Gottlieb, former point guard and radio talk show host, is the coach. They won 18 games last year, so they're not going to back off. They played Wisconsin in an exhibition. They played Marquette, so they've seen some good teams. And you've got to get ready for Monday in Minnesota. And Minnesota, not that they're world beaters, but they're a Big Ten team. You know, he's got new guys. The chemistry has to work eventually. And, you know, this is why you play all these games. And, you know, every week there's going to be someone where John Rothstein is going to write the epitome of brutality because people will lose a bye game. And it happened to what Oklahoma lost to East Texas A & M. 01:07:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, some A & M school, yeah. That wasn't Texas A & M, correct? No, no, East Texas A & M. You cannot lose. 01:07:44 Speaker 9: To directional hyphenated or any. 01:07:47 Speaker 2: Agriculture and mechanical schools. 01:07:50 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:07:51 Speaker 9: Any punctuation involved in your name, you should not lose to that team. 01:07:56 Speaker 2: Scott Springer from the Enquirer joins here as he's going to be covering the UC game tonight against Green Bay. Scott, you mentioned Minnesota coming up. You got You've got Minnesota, Big Ten, and later next week Bearcats go to UD Arena. And I know Jared Calhoun basically said, hey, this is our schedule the first year. I actually don't think it's, especially as a first year for his first season and kind of coming in and obviously you've got to put it together. I don't think their schedules I don't look at their schedule and be like, good lord, it's just a bunch of uh, you know, East Texas A & Ms. I mean, you got, you got Minnesota, you got UD, you got, uh, Georgia's coming up. And again, these are more lower level power, so-called power conferences, but Boston college, uh, then you got Xavier, obviously the crosstown shootout, December 5th, they got Clemson, uh, who's, uh, you know, been a solid ACC team. I actually kind of, I kind of, I kind of intrigued by this non-conference schedule for once. I think it's better than it was certainly last season. I know they lost Louisville off the schedule, but first-year head coach, and I think everyone expects, well, let me ask you that. Do you think everyone expects, and I know that the tournament's expanded, so I wouldn't, you know, I'd like to think UC's going to make it in. But do you think that there's going to be some grace from the fan base if... The Bearcats trip up here? 01:09:36 Speaker 9: I would think maybe a little, but the thing is, I don't think he expects anything other than going to the tournament. I don't think he's even considered any other option. And I think that's why they're there. And you have guys that have tournament experience. Miles Coleman, a couple years back, played in a national championship game when he was at Purdue. And you have guys that have. 01:09:58 Speaker 9: Taha has been in the tournament, and Riley Allen's match. So all these guys along the way, Trevion Carson was North Dakota State. He was in the tournament. 01:10:09 Speaker 2: Obviously, with the three or four guys he brought from Utah State, yep. 01:10:13 Speaker 9: Eric Mahaffey, tournament player. Imani Lyles, who's someone that's going to factor in big here, I think, because Jaden Hastings was injured the other night. I don't know if he's going to be able to go tonight, but when you pull your shoulder out of socket, that's kind of a big deal. So we'll see what happens tonight. But both those guys were in the tournament with Akron, and like you mentioned, all the Utah State guys. So they have a fair amount of tournament experience, guys that have been there. And I don't think they know anything other than to get back there. And that's why they all came. And it's interesting to hear the way they put together a team. It's almost scientific where the, you know, we're looking at wingspans, looking at shooting percentages, looking at, and these are not guys that everyone was beat the door down for, but it fits what he's looking to do. And you just like the structure and everything that he says. And the fact that he's been with Bob, he's been with, uh, Andy Kennedy and Nick Cronin guys that have done it pretty well. And Andy, uh, you know, coached on his own, went away from West Virginia to Fairmont state, Irish Joe Missoula, the old guard from West Virginia and their friends in Missoula is now coaching the Celtics. He's got quite the coaching tree surrounding him. So are they going to win every game? Like the, you know, the Indiana team, Bob Knight? No, no one's ever going to do that again, but they've got a real good chance of getting a bunch of wins and surprising some people. And no one really knows a ton about them yet because the only returning players, Grant Darbyshire, are the one guy. So you return zero points from that year. 01:11:50 Speaker 2: That is wild, man. Hey, Scott, I've got to run to a break, but thanks for your insights on this, and we'll keep up with your coverage of the Inquirer. What's your handle on the X? 01:12:04 Speaker 9: S Springer

Sports. 01:12:06 Speaker 2: S Springer Sports on the X and obviously find all Scott's coverage of the Bearcats basketball and football and other sports on Cincinnati.com enjoy the game tonight my friend and be ready to rake those leaves again tomorrow. 01:12:19 Speaker 9: Morning well I'll be out here tomorrow so somebody else your wife can do it then yeah yeah fat chance there see you buddy they'll be here waiting on me Sunday see. 01:12:30 Speaker 2: Ya let's take a break here on ESPN 1530. 01:12:34 Speaker 5: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic. 01:12:39 Speaker 3: From the UC Health. 01:12:40 Speaker 2: Like ESPN 1530. Cincinnati Sports Station. 01:12:48 Speaker 8: Welcome back to ESPN 1530. 01:12:54 Speaker 2: Jason Williams. In for Moe today. Mo will be down at Fifth Third Arena tonight doing his duties with UC basketball. Switching gears, let's talk some Bengals. Would love to hear from you. I wrote a column for Cincinnati.com, Cincinnati Inquirer, out of the game the other day in which I was critical of the Bengals. I put Zach Taylor in the spotlight. And I've gotten mixed reviews on that column. I basically said, hey, they're 5-2. On one hand, they're 5-2, right? You think about the good things. Dexter Lawrence makes or gets a sack right at the end of regulation to send that thing into overtime. So, What we've all been calling for the last few years, the defense held in the key moment there, right? The defense held in the key moment, and the guy they went out and got, the guy that they traded the top 10 pick for, made the stop. All things that I think we were sat here last year at this time and said, oh, hallelujah, they finally made a stop in a crucial game because that game last Sunday against the Titans was, seem to be having the makings of the game, so many games that they had last year, right? You know, I had flashbacks of the Jets game. I had flashbacks of the Bears game right there and thought when Tennessee got the ball late, I thought they're going to drive down here and they're going to kick a field goal and they're going to win this game and it's going to be same old, same old. Well, we all know what happened. The Bengals, you know, Dexter Lawrence gets the big sack there. They go to overtime and the Bengals win it. In overtime, 43-36. First 43-36 score ever in NFL history. How about that for getting in the weeds? I was sitting in the press box writing my column. One of my colleagues said that down. I was like, okay, that's some Major League Baseball-level stat nerding out right there. But my column got a lot of attention because I say that Zach Taylor is is on the hot seat. And I don't say that he should be fired. But I think he's quietly already been on the hot seat for the entire season. I don't think if you're the front office after missing the playoffs for three years and you go out and spend $ 125 million on three starting defensive veterans in Brian Cook, Super Bowl champion, Boye Mafe, Super Bowl champion. Jonathan Allen,

certainly a longtime solid starting defensive lineman in the NFL. And then obviously go trade for the first time in franchise history, a top 10 draft pick to get pro bowler Dexter Lawrence. I don't think you do that and not have your coach on the hot seat. And again, nobody said that. Of course, they're not going to say that. But the way this team is played, and I'm confident in what I write and what I say, but I want to hear from you because I've heard from a lot of people. I got a lot of response to my column on Cincinnati.com the other day in which I said, hey, Zach Taylor should be on the hot seat for the way this team is played. They still can't stop the run. They still can't stop the pass over the middle. Their offense is incredibly predictable. It really hasn't changed at all since everyone first got together, everyone being Zach Taylor, Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, and T. Higgins, and that foursome formed in Jamar's rookie season of 2021. The offense has not changed, and you can go back and say the offense hasn't changed in all of Zach Taylor's eight seasons in Cincinnati. And so the predictable nature of the offense, the fact that Joe Burrow, like they refuse to commit anything consistently to the run. And you go and you look at the teams that are at the top or that every year are in the Super Bowl or making deep runs. They always, almost always have Balanced offenses. Look at the Bills and James Cook. Look at the Kansas City Chiefs. They go out and get Kenneth Walker. Those guys are in the top five. When I looked after last, I don't have it in front of me, but they might have been top six in rushing in the NFL. Hey, maybe there's something there. Maybe there's something there that you take a lot of pressure off of your quarterback who, oh, by the way, is injury prone by having a running game, by turning around. And, you know, Mo's talked about it, like, you know, that, you know, there's a fear. Austin's talked about it. You know, there's generally, you know, that Joe Burrow doesn't want to turn his back to the defense when he has to turn and actually hand the ball off if he's going from under center. But this team, this offense in particular, all 11 starters back, has not evolved. You cannot keep running it back. you can't have the same players. You cannot just keep running the same thing over and over and think that the NFL you're going to, you're going to make a Superbowl run in the NFL. The NFL has adjusted since the Bengals went to the Superbowl and then back to the FC championship in 2022, the NFL has adjusted. The Bengals have not sniffed the playoffs since they left Kansas city after that, uh, tough, uh, loss, um, in a bitter cold. I was there. I covered the game. The bitter cold weather of Kansas City and whatever that was, late January of 2022. They haven't been back. It's crazy to think. It's all the same players and it's the same system. That's part of why they haven't been back. Part of it, obviously, is that Joe Burrow has been. 01:19:53 Speaker 10: Hurt. 01:19:54 Speaker 2: Not this year, but you this year is now exposing that you have to have a running game. Like you have to take pressure off Joe Burrow. And what's been disappointing is that when Joe Burrow has been asked about, you know, their, their lack of a running game, his response is throw the ball more, throw the ball more. Like, is that stubbornness? Is that ego? Is that a little bit of both? And then you, you, you wonder then about Zach Taylor and it's like, is Zach Taylor a, Does he agree with that? Because, you know, Zach will say they want to be a more balanced offense, and yet they're not. They've shown little bit of snippets of it here and there since that Jacksonville game when they ran for 23 yards. But I asked the question after that game to Zach Taylor, and he said, you know, that's not their plan to run for that few of yards, and they want to run the ball more, and they want to be more balanced. Well, then do it. I don't think they're, I don't, they are, of course they're capable of it, but I don't think their, their, their stubbornness and their ego and the relationship of Joe Burrow and Zach Taylor will allow for that. And I wrote another column saying that after that game, a couple of days later, that, that I don't think it's as easy as saying you're going to turn the ball, turn and hand the ball off 15, 20 times a game to chase a Brown and Samaj P Ryan. It's just, it's not that it's not as easy as that. It, we all, I think we all think it seems to be that easy, but the culture of the team, it's so ingrained in the ego and the stubbornness of Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow. And then you wonder too, about the dynamics of the relationship. Like what is, who's calling the shots here? And is Joe Burrow is, is Zach saying, yeah, run the ball here. And Joe saying, no, we're going to throw it. And Zach, You know, it's obviously too far gone to where Zach's going to say no. And I don't know of anybody in that organization says no to Joe Burrow. And I say all this to say that the Bengals are 5-2. And it's kind of amazing to think, like, they're 5-2. Now, their five wins have been against teams that are combined 11-27. Their two losses have been to the two first-place teams, the Steelers and the Jaguars. Yes, it's the NFL. I understand. You get the win. You get on to the next week. You get it by one point. You get it by three touchdowns. 01:22:34 Speaker 3: Whatever. 01:22:36 Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that Joe Burrow put you, the Bengals fan, me, us, those of us in the media, the world, He put everyone on notice. When he stepped to that podium on August 20th during training camp, and he basically had this long, not diatribe, he wasn't ranting, but when he basically went on this philosophical thing about, this is it. This is the year. I'm tired of saying next year, next year, next year. And I don't have that at quote. I'm paraphrasing, but these are elements of what he was saying. And when he

said, literally said, this is it, he basically set the standard. He said he was trying to manifest a championship and that life is too short to keep talking about next year, next year, next year. And so when I wrote about that and when I heard him say that, in my mind, that was the moment that On the heels of all the offseason moves that Duke Tobin made, and credit to Mike Brown for ultimately, it's ultimately his franchise. He's the one that the buck ultimately stops with him. For him to be okay with them spending that amount of money on defense, with them being okay to admit, obviously not literally admit, but to admit, Their defensive draft picks, many of them have not worked out. And to go out and for the first time ever in franchise history trade a top 10 draft pick, they said it was championship time with those moves. And then Joe Burrow follows it up verbally saying that at the podium on August 20th. I remember it vividly. In my mind, that set the standard. That certainly set the standard for how I think we all, and certainly how I have viewed this team, that this team is to be viewed through the prism of whether it's playing championship ball or not. And by that standard, take the record away because, yes, we can sit here and say five and two, and you're like, hey, man, you're being way too hard on these guys. But if you're looking at it through that championship prism, how they're playing right now is not championship ball and is not going to get them to the Super Bowl, let alone win one. It's probably not going to get them a deep playoff run. Now, I admitted, I've said it. You know, they're okay. They're decent. They're an okay team. But again, you know, I think right now they're at least a wildcard team, but I don't think they're a championship team right now. That's been the standard in which Joe Burrow, the front office, have said that's what to expect this year. 01:25:59 Speaker 3: I don't know. 01:26:00 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear what you have to say. 01:26:02 Speaker 12: 513-749-1530. 513-749-1530. 01:26:02 Speaker 2: Let's take a break. Love to hear from you on the other side of this. ESPN 1530. 01:26:14 Speaker 5: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic. 01:26:18 Speaker 6: Wall in the Natty. 01:26:20 Speaker 11: Brought to you in part by Skyline Chili on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. 01:26:36 Speaker 2: Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams in for Mo Egger today. You can catch all of my columns on Cincinnati.com and in the Cincinnati Inquirer. And one of which I wrote in which I was critical of the Bengals. They're not playing championship football right now. Now you think you might be sitting there saying, dude, they're five and two. Well, the standard is the standard. The standard was set when this team went out in the offseason and And rebuilt the defense. And when Joe Burrow stepped to the podium on August 20th and said, this is it. I'm manifesting. I'm trying to manifest around here a championship mentality. Life is too short to keep saying next year. That to me said this, that anything less than championship level football this year. was going to be unacceptable. And I'm not saying you're going to play championship-level football in every single game for four straight quarters. But getting behind 13-0 the last two weeks, continuing to be unable to stop the run, to give up the passes over the middle on that rebuilt defense, for the offense to continue to be incredibly predictable, to not have any semblance of a consistent running game, I'm a little down on the Bengals right now. Am I being too hard on them? 01:28:15 Speaker 7: 513-749-1530. 01:28:18 Speaker 2: 513-749-1530. Let's go to Rob. He wants to weigh in. Hey, Rob. 01:28:26 Speaker 3: Hey, how you doing? Good, man. 01:28:28 Speaker 2: How are you? 01:28:28 Speaker 8: Good. 01:28:29 Speaker 2: I'm good. 01:28:31 Speaker 10: Well, the way I think what you were talking about as far as an ironing game goes, what I think that comes down to is and I don't. 01:28:40 Speaker 3: Believe you need to trade chase. 01:28:43 Speaker 7: Brown or P Ryan or anything like that. 01:28:47 Speaker 3: It's like Taylor scheme. He does not know how to have a running scheme. 01:28:51 Speaker 10: He, all he wants to do is pass the ball. The dude got hired eight years ago, and I knew that was a failure right from the beginning because the only thing he ever was a coach in, he was never even a. 01:29:03 Speaker 3: Head coach in high school. He was the O.C. at University of Cincinnati, and he had a living record. 01:29:11 Speaker 10: And that was the only time he was an O.C., and he was a quarterback coach for Sean McVay. 01:29:17 Speaker 2: For the Rams, yeah. 01:29:18 Speaker 10: Yeah, just because he was under Sean McVay, all of a sudden you think he's a... Brainiac football guy. 01:29:24 Speaker 3: No, he's not. He's absolutely terrible as a coach. I think he's a wimp. 01:29:30 Speaker 10: And that's why these guys, he gets, Joe Burr and those guys get away with, you know, throwing the damn ball because eventually they have to throw the ball because they're so far behind. 01:29:42 Speaker 2: That's a great, yeah. 01:29:44 Speaker 10: If you had any kind of scheme, running scheme, put Joe back on their center. 01:29:49 Speaker 3: I mean, you've got to do that. 01:29:51 Speaker 10: And whether or not they like it or not, you've got to do it to just throw other teams off. 01:29:57 Speaker 3: If you're one-dimensional. 01:29:58 Speaker 10: Offensively, what are you going to do? I mean, your secondary sucks. And, you know, I know Zach doesn't have anything to do. 01:30:07 Speaker 9: With the defense. 01:30:09 Speaker 3: You know, you're going to have two coaches out there at the end of the season. And.... 01:30:14 Speaker 10: One being Mike Tomlin and the other one being Dan. 01:30:16 Speaker 3: Campbell because his contract's up. 01:30:19 Speaker 10: And I would say either one of those guys bring somebody in

that is going to actually put the foot down and make the right football decision. 01:30:26 Speaker 2: Rob, great call, and thanks for your call. And we'll hang up, and I'll respond to what you said there. The last point you made there about Dan Campbell and Mike Tomlin, if you look at the Bengals' history, they are not– well, number one, those guys are going to cost a lot of money And so there's that, but then also the, this is a, this is a front office that doesn't want really strong willed, strong personality. And because a lot of those veteran coaches want complete control and they want a lot of say over personnel and it's not how the Bengals operate. Hey, it's their, their business and it's how they operate. And so be it. Um, I don't think Zach Taylor, I know he's not a terrible, he's not, and I've defended him a lot, and I think he's taken a lot of heat. But it's now, it's now been moved, he's now been moved into the spotlight fully. And I know there's fans out there be like, hey, where you been for the last four years? No, what I'm saying is that, all right, everything's in place now, or a lot's in place now. Obviously, the rebuilt defense. All 11 starters back. For the most part, everyone healthy. And most importantly, number nine is healthy. He fired his defensive coordinator, Lou Anarumo, after the 24 season. Got Al Golden, who's Zach Taylor's guy. Got him in here. And so we say, yeah, he doesn't have anything to do with it. Well, ultimately, he does. He hired, he fired Lou Anarumo, who's a good defensive coordinator. And he hired... now golden and we're still seeing some of the same issues um and so ultimately this is now put a some people could you know could say you know the spotlight was already on well i'll say it's a brighter spotlight on zach taylor so i do you know this team and i'm telling you i'm concerned about them the next two weeks i'm concerned about whether they're going to win the next two weeks But we'll continue this conversation. I'll take more of your calls, 513-749-1530. I think there's more to talk about on this. And trade deadlines coming up. Bengals going to do anything? Take a break. ESPN 1530. 01:32:48 Speaker 11: You've been listening to Football in the Natty on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. 01:32:58 Speaker 6: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. 01:32:59 Speaker 10: Traffic. 01:33:02 Speaker 2: From the UC Health traffic, down! Bengals! 01:33:06 Speaker 1: This week, the Bengals are going international as they make their way to Madrid to duel with the Dirty Birds of Atlanta, a game we hope will be known as the Running of the Bengals. Can the orange and black overcome the overseas trip, or will the Falcons swoop in for the win? Honestly, isn't the Falcon just an oversized pigeon? Remember to set your alarm. The game kicks off at 9.30 a.m. with coverage starting at 5.30 a.m. 01:33:33 Speaker 3: Sunday morning. 01:33:34 Speaker 1: Stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app or on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. 01:33:49 Speaker 2: Welcome back to ESPN 1530. Jason Williams from the Enquirer rolling along in for Mo today. Mo will be at the UC Green Bay basketball game tonight, game two of the Jared Calhoun era, and hopefully it's a fantastic era. Love, love, love it when you see basketballs rolling. Get that thing back on and get this town abuzz again about UC basketball. It would be fantastic. Anyway, I was talking earlier about whether Zach Taylor should be on the hot seat. And you think, wait, wait. Some people may be thinking like, dude, Bengals are 5-2. But my argument is that, yeah, they're 5-2, but the standard was championship-level football. The five wins are against teams that are combined 11-27. The two losses are against two first-place teams, Steelers, Jacksonville, Bengals. I think these next two are tricky. I know both teams have to deal with the jet lag and going over to Spain and all that. The Falcons, man, I guess it all depends on what Falcons team shows up. The Falcons are 3-5, but they're in that division, that NFC South division that All those teams are 3-5. They've all got Carolinas 3-4, Tampa Bay 3-5, Atlanta 3-5, New Orleans 2-5. It's a weird division because any one of those teams it feels like can beat anybody. For example, the Falcons have beaten the 49ers and yet they've lost 34-3 to the Panthers. They're And they're a team who has the leading rusher in the NFL in Robinson. I'm a little concerned about it. And obviously, it's so, so rare to come off of an international trip and win without having first been on a bye. And you come home and you're going to play the Steelers on Sunday night. I don't know, man. I don't know about this next two-game stretch. And I don't know about this team overall. Because they're an okay team, as is right now, and especially, you know, they're 5-2, right? They're not 2-5, so the sky's not falling. Joe Burrow is healthy. That's huge. I mean, that's almost all of it right there, right? But they're not playing to the championship standard that the front office set by going out and rebuilding the defense, and that Joe Burrow said... on August 20th in his press conference that day during training camp when he said, effectively said, there is no next year. This is it. And I'm paraphrasing him, but he basically said, it's now or never is what he said. And so by those standards, we all should be viewing this team as a championship through the prism that this is, they have to play championship level football, not every quarter, not every minute, not every play, but it all falls back right now to zach taylor other things have been put in place joe burrows healthy like i said rebuilt defense he fired his all defensive coordinator a couple years ago brought in another guy they're still having some of the same issues on defense 513-749-1530 let's go to uh jeff in fairfield who wants to weigh in on this hey jeff Hey, good evening. 01:37:39 Speaker 3: How you

doing? Good, man. 01:37:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. I know it's weird to say good evening, right? I'm looking out and it's dark outside. 01:37:47 Speaker 3: Oh, man. 01:37:48 Speaker 13: So, listen, I'm with everybody else when it comes to our defense. I think we have made improvements. But, man, I am done with this running up the middle and passing over the middle. 01:37:58 Speaker 3: It's been that way, man, I. 01:38:00 Speaker 2: Can't tell you what, five, ten years. And did we not bring in. 01:38:03 Speaker 12: A specialist last year, a coach, just to. 01:38:06 Speaker 13: Scheme across the middle stops? Sean, I can't remember his name, but I thought we brought in another defensive coach just to help scheme and shut down that middle that we're getting burnt on so damn bad. 01:38:19 Speaker 3: I mean, it's horrible. 01:38:20 Speaker 2: It is horrible. And, you know, and thanks, Jeff. Like, it's interesting to think about this team and they can't, you know, the team's what I looked it up the other day they've allowed a hundred or more yards rushing in four of their games and They're two and two in those games the obviously the two losses were against the other two teams they've lost to first place Jacksonville first place Pittsburgh and then the two wins and It just happened to be against the two one-win teams in Tennessee. And I'm drawing a blank. I don't have it in front of me. It was their other, the Bengals' other win against another bad team. 01:39:07 Speaker 3: Houston. Yeah. 01:39:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, Houston. No, no, sorry. Not Houston. The Dolphins. The Dolphins. They gave up, what, over 200 yards rushing against them. Sorry about that. 01:39:19 Speaker 3: So. 01:39:19 Speaker 2: 100 yards rushing in four games, they're 2-2. Two of those are good teams. The other two, they have so many other flaws that their rushing game can't make up for their so many other issues. So that problem is continuing, and that is a problem. That is not championship football when you're allowing guys to run the ball down your throat. It's so demoralizing. And then you go to the other side of the ball when you can't do it. And then you're getting in holes, and Rob made the point earlier. Well, you can't run the ball when you're down 13-0. You can if it's early enough, obviously, like it was last week, but they still don't do it. They still don't do it. Let's go to Mike who wants to weigh in. 01:40:06 Speaker 9: Hey, Mike. 01:40:09 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks. Jason. Good show. 01:40:11 Speaker 2: Oh, thank. 01:40:13 Speaker 3: You. 01:40:14 Speaker 12: Cincinnati native born at Christ hospital, 74 year old Vietnam. But actually I'm in hospice right now. I listen to you guys all the time that you help me get through my days. And I'm very grateful to the station as. 01:40:28 Speaker 3: Well as LW. 01:40:30 Speaker 2: And I was just, God bless you. 01:40:32 Speaker 9: Thanks. 01:40:33 Speaker 12: I was just thinking real quick before I get into my quick bangles

question. Um, Were you around when Gary Burbank was on WLW? 01:40:43 Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't filling in here then. I fill in a lot down the hall on WLW. But I mean, I remember certainly I was in Cincinnati, and I listened to his show all the time. I just wasn't actually on the payroll here back then when he was here. 01:40:59 Speaker 12: No, but you knew about his show. 01:41:01 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. 01:41:01 Speaker 12: He was so funny doing all those voices. And he had that show called All My Bengals. 01:41:06 Speaker 3: All My Bengals, yep. 01:41:10 Speaker 12: Was that hilarious or what? 01:41:12 Speaker 2: Oh, that was fantastic. 01:41:13 Speaker 12: They ought to replay some of those shows once in a while because that upsets your spirit just because it's so damn funny. But anyway, regarding the Bengals with Burrow, you know, you can't do anything but love Joe, but I don't know that Shanahan or Reed or McVay or Peyton or Campbell, Ben Johnson would put up with, well, I'm saying we're throwing the ball. 01:41:38 Speaker 3: We ain't running the ball. 01:41:40 Speaker 12: They'd say, bro, well, here's the door cowboy hit the road. Um, or maybe not to that length, but they would have to do something. 01:41:48 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:41:48 Speaker 2: And Mike, thanks for that. Mike, thanks for your call and, and, and God, God bless you and Godspeed to you. And thanks so much for listening and, I just play a very, very small part here, and that means a lot for you to say that. And I know that means a lot to Mo and all those guys down at WLW. But you make a good point there, Mike, on that. And let's go to Jackson, who wants to weigh in on the Bengals as well. 01:42:18 Speaker 3: Hey, Jackson. 01:42:20 Speaker 9: Hey, how you doing, Jackson? 01:42:21 Speaker 2: Good, man. 01:42:23 Speaker 10: Good. I just want to play devil's advocate real quick. 01:42:25 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I mean, I get it. I'm born and raised a Bengals fan. I get it. Everybody hates Zach. 01:42:30 Speaker 9: My dad hates Zach. 01:42:31 Speaker 3: I hear him talk about it every week. 01:42:33 Speaker 9: But I would like to mention, he doesn't get any credit for when the offense is rolling. 01:42:38 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? No credit whatsoever. Hey, you know, great point. And these are the points that, you know, I feel like I've been made. You know, I'm sitting there writing my column in the press box for the inquiry the other day, and I'm watching this unfold, and I'm like, oof. Yes, they won. But it's just like, and I'm thinking back to that Jacksonville game. But Jackson, on the flip side of that, you make a great point. Think about how their offense did on the last drive of regulation and then on that drive in overtime. I mean, it's like, oh my gosh. 01:43:13 Speaker 3: Right. 01:43:15 Speaker 2: Holy, it's like a blur. Zip, zip, zip. And it's touchdown. And understanding it's not going to be like that on every single series but it's not consistent enough. But I agree

with that. And look, Zach. 01:43:34 Speaker 2: I like Zach, and obviously you separate out the personal and the professional, but I actually think Zach is overall a good coach. I think that when it comes to culture, and I think culture is incredibly important, and especially I think in that organization where there is so much negativity from the outside, and there has been so much negativity even from former players about the team and that, you know, there's a lot of former players that'll take shots at the Bengals and they're cheap and blah, blah, blah. So I think culture and being a culture builder is really, really important. And I think he's the best. I think he's the best. I don't know if there's a better person in the NFL at that or in coaching football in general. And I think he knows all, but I think that there's just, it's like, You got to adjust somewhere along the line here. You've got to adjust and you've got to balance things out. And he knows that. And but I think that there's dynamics between him and Joe. I'm not it's I'm not saying it's I just think Joe calls the shots and Zach's like, OK. 01:44:43 Speaker 3: I mean, can you blame him? 01:44:45 Speaker 2: No, no, and there's that. 01:44:47 Speaker 3: Right. 01:44:49 Speaker 2: You're not wrong. It's like, well, this is the greatest. I mean, that's right. This is the great. I mean, in my mind, Jackson, I know people will argue. I think Joe Burrow is the best quarterback in the NFL, period, hands down, end of story. 01:45:08 Speaker 10: No, no. 01:45:09 Speaker 2: I think Joe Burrow is the greatest player in the history of the Bengals already. I think period, end of story. And so you take all those things in no count, and you're right. What you just said there, can you blame him? No, but on the other hand, it's like, do you want to win a Super Bowl? Thanks, man. Thanks for hanging in there. 01:45:30 Speaker 9: I appreciate it. 01:45:31 Speaker 2: Let's go to George over in Mainville. Hey, George. 01:45:34 Speaker 7: Hey, I was going to call and ask, I want to talk about the lack of ability of the Bengals to develop their players over the course of the last 15 years. 01:45:42 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, George, are you talking about the Reds there? I'm kidding. Go ahead. 01:45:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that's true. 01:45:47 Speaker 7: You're exactly right about that also. But after listening to these other calls, though, it kind of burns me up with what everyone else is saying, too, concerning the fact that the minute we get even one point down in a game, the running game is over for the game. I mean, we only have to go down 7 to 6 or 10 to. 01:46:05 Speaker 14: 9, and Zach's like, oh, my God, we're down one point. 01:46:07 Speaker 3: No, we can't run. 01:46:08 Speaker 7: Can't run anymore because we're down by one. And so it just disappears. Or my other favorite thing to see is when P. Ryan runs three straight times for 21 yards, seven yards a carry, and then they take him off because he's, what, exhausted? He's been standing on the sideline all half. and he finally is allowed in the game, runs three times, and then they're like, oh, let's bring him off the field, when he's literally running fantastic all the way down the field. I remember seeing a game once with Pittsburgh, where I swear I saw Roethlisberger like handy if they started on the 20, and they had like a 15-play drive, and Roethlisberger handed off 15 times. 01:46:50 Speaker 2: And how demoralizing, you know, George, how demoralizing is that too, especially when you're, I mean, obviously you're going to hand it off. If you're handing it off 15 times, you're getting yards. How demoralizing, and then you're eating clock, and how demoralizing is that to the defense, you know? 01:47:05 Speaker 7: I remember once, I've never forgotten this, listening to Mike Golick on the radio, and he said the one thing that's so important about the run game, he said throwing short passes and the, you know, what's that called, the– that Bill Walsh developed at West Coast Offices. 01:47:19 Speaker 3: He goes, it's not the same. 01:47:21 Speaker 7: He goes, everyone wants to say that's the equivalent of running. He goes, it's not. 01:47:25 Speaker 3: He goes, you have. 01:47:26 Speaker 7: To understand what it's like when you take another man and move him from his spot and show him that you're bigger and stronger and can push him back. And he goes, and you can't do that when you're going backwards on 80% of the plays. And Pat's blocking... And then all of a sudden they ask you to go run now. And you haven't pushed forward in the last 15 play calls. 01:47:50 Speaker 14: He goes, it's not going to happen. Now, if that's what they want to do, that's fine. I mean, that's obviously what they want to do because they don't run the ball. But it's just very frustrating to see that we actually have, I think, pretty decent running backs. and they always say the offensive line's. 01:48:06 Speaker 3: Horrible, how would you know? 01:48:08 Speaker 2: Hey, George. 01:48:09 Speaker 7: There's a difference between them saying we can't run. 01:48:13 Speaker 10: And we won't run. 01:48:14 Speaker 2: Bingo, George. 01:48:15 Speaker 3: Thanks. 01:48:16 Speaker 2: Hey, I agree with you. Thanks so much for your call and great calls today. Thanks so much for listening. I'm really honored to fill in for Mo here and appreciate your time and listening here on ESPN 1530. 01:48:30 Speaker 8: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic. From the UC Health Traffic Center, Lung Cancer.