התמלול המלא של Before & After Pt. 1: How Math Therapy changed Lauren Keeling's life (May 2026)

worse, on a public forum- Yes like, people are listening, what would that mean about you? 00:04:02.627 --> 00:04:04.426 That I am a failure. 00:04:04.727 --> 00:04:06.576 That I am a dummy. 00:04:07.146 --> 00:04:09.106 When is the first time you felt this way? 00:04:09.866 --> 00:04:10.787 I, in first grade. 00:04:11.336 --> 00:04:13.877 It centers on those, those timed tests. 00:04:13.877 --> 00:04:16.706 That's when we started doing flashcards. 00:04:16.706 --> 00:04:17.466 Hmm. 00:04:17.466 --> 00:04:19.266 I see Mrs. 00:04:19.266 --> 00:04:27.817 V walking down the aisles in the rows that we were in, and she sets this paper down in front of me that I have just finished, and it is full of red Xs. 00:04:28.766 --> 00:04:38.367 And that very moment is the very first moment that I can recall in my life feeling like I wasn't very good at this thing and that something was wrong with me. 00:04:39.437 --> 00:04:42.476 And then it happened again, and then it happened again 00:04:43.499 --> 00:04:47.569 Okay, so that sounds, first of all, very, very hard. 00:04:47.809 --> 00:04:50.778 And I can, like, feel the emotion, like, coming out of you as you talk about it. 00:04:50.778 --> 00:04:52.579 It is, it's really interesting, right? 00:04:52.588 --> 00:04:57.838 How core, like, you, you said it was a core memory- but then the evidence is you literally remember every detail. 00:04:57.838 --> 00:04:58.059 I do. 00:04:58.069 --> 00:05:01.139 You remember what she was wearing, you remember, like, how you felt. 00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:03.829 Can we talk about the mathematics content? 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.418 Like, so you got the stuff wrong, you got the red Xs. 00:05:07.178 --> 00:05:12.259 Time te- forget the timed test, were you able to, in a non-timed situation, do what was on the paper? 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:18.309 Perhaps not perfectly or well, but I felt like I had the time to be able to count on my fingers. 00:05:18.579 --> 00:05:19.699 I could do touch math. 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:19.738 The, the 00:05:19.738 --> 00:05:21.548 world's OG manipulative, everyone. 00:05:22.009 --> 00:05:22.928 Yes, the original. 00:05:24.108 --> 00:05:29.668 I had to do it a completely different way from what the very straightforward way that my teacher was doing it up on the board. 00:05:29.689 --> 00:05:30.019 Got it. 00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:43.749 So there's a few, like, really interesting things, which is that, just from a theoretical point of view, and, like, a scientific point of view, it's really important that we hang onto this moment for a second, because this is years and years, this is decades later, decades later. 00:05:43.889 --> 00:05:44.528 Decades later. 00:05:44.528 --> 00:05:47.869 Decades later, and your body remembers that experience. 00:05:47.899 --> 00:05:48.038 It does. 00:05:48.069 --> 00:05:57.689 And actually, with math trauma, and any sort of microtrauma or macrotrauma, our bodies do go back into the state we were in when we had the first

traumatic incident. 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.999 So I actually want you to just give yourself some grace as a bigger picture. 00:06:00.999 --> 00:06:08.838 We're gonna talk about this more later, but to remember that now, every time you're faced with math, you are back to being that six-year-old. 00:06:09.129 --> 00:06:10.459 It's not just made up. 00:06:10.468 --> 00:06:15.908 Like, that is what's happening, and how can you possibly perform mathematically when you feel like... 00:06:15.908 --> 00:06:16.699 Like, you can't. 00:06:16.728 --> 00:06:18.298 You can't access your working memory. 00:06:18.749 --> 00:06:20.309 Like, your amygdala is being hijacked. 00:06:20.309 --> 00:06:21.778 You're back in that trauma memory. 00:06:21.889 --> 00:06:31.418 And I just wanna reflect back, there's a part of you that's like,"Even though I'm able to work this stuff out, and, like, get the result and get a good grade, it doesn't actually count, because I'm not doing it fast enough. 00:06:31.418 --> 00:06:33.098 I'm not doing it the way everyone else is. 00:06:33.119 --> 00:06:36.749 I've gotta use these tools no one else is doing, so it doesn't actually count as me being good at math." 00:06:37.088 --> 00:06:37.559 Yes. 00:06:37.629 --> 00:06:41.649 I had to figure out, I had to draw the pictures, I had to make the circles. 00:06:41.678 --> 00:06:43.548 You know, I had to do all of the different strategies. 00:06:43.548 --> 00:06:45.598 And is that, is that not being good at math in your mind? 00:06:45.769 --> 00:06:47.778 No, it's not being good at math- Right in my mind. 00:06:47.928 --> 00:06:48.749 And, and why? 00:06:49.098 --> 00:06:50.658 Because there's one way to do math. 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:58.149 My childhood teaching tells me there's one way to do math, and if you have to do all of this extraneous stuff to get there, you're not doing it right. 00:06:58.149 --> 00:06:58.678 Yeah. 00:06:58.689 --> 00:06:59.449 One pathway. 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:02.918 But can I tell you one more big piece of math trauma- 00:07:02.918 --> 00:07:03.389 Tell me whatever you want, yeah 00:07:03.389 --> 00:07:04.709 that lives in my grown-up life? 00:07:04.709 --> 00:07:04.738 Yes. 00:07:06.225 --> 00:07:13.504 from a career perspective, I've done a lot of different things, and when I transitioned out of my very first job as a journalist and moved into... 00:07:13.504 --> 00:07:15.745 I decided that we were raising girls. 00:07:15.764 --> 00:07:18.014 I needed a different schedule in my life. 00:07:18.014 --> 00:07:18.884 I wanted to be a teacher. 00:07:18.894 --> 00:07:19.814 My mom was a teacher. 00:07:19.824 --> 00:07:21.115 I knew I loved kindergarten. 00:07:21.125 --> 00:07:22.834 It was, my heart was called to it. 00:07:24.035 --> 00:07:33.064 I had to go back to school and get my master's degree, but then came the really difficult part because in Ohio, where I was getting certified, I had to take four different tests in the core subjects, right? 00:07:33.064 --> 00:07:35.564 So math, reading, uh, science, and social studies. 00:07:35.855 --> 00:07:44.185 I went to take my math Praxis, and I'm sitting in this little quiet room, and these sweet ladies are on the outside of the glass, and you know you're not allowed to talk when you're taking those tests. 00:07:44.194 --> 00:07:44.375 Sure. 00:07:44.375 --> 00:07:45.714 You're, like, in your little cubicle. 00:07:46.115 --> 00:07:53.285 So I'm working through this test, working through this test, and I'm taking it at the end, and I fail it, this big test that's going to allow me to get my certification. 00:07:53.295 --> 00:07:53.985 Mm. 00:07:54.365 --> 00:07:59.105 And I fail it by just a very menial number, less than 10 points. 00:07:59.975 --> 00:08:00.675 Oh my God. 00:08:00.675 --> 00:08:03.435 And I was super disappointed, but I knew I could take it again. 00:08:03.754 --> 00:08:10.944 So I went back to my tutor, and we bought all of the Math for Dummies books and Ma- Praxis Math for Dummies books, and we studied through all of those. 00:08:10.944 --> 00:08:11.045 Probably in 00:08:11.045 --> 00:08:12.464 retrospect, like, not a good name, okay? 00:08:12.475 --> 00:08:13.035 Terrible name. 00:08:13.055 --> 00:08:13.384 I know. 00:08:13.615 --> 00:08:19.904 So we did all of those books, and I went back and I took that test again the second time, and I was really trying to focus my brain on, like,"You can do this. 00:08:19.944 --> 00:08:21.595 This is a really important thing to you. 00:08:21.605 --> 00:08:23.774 You have the skill," and I failed it again. 00:08:24.154 --> 00:08:24.685 Okay. 00:08:24.995 --> 00:08:31.855 By this time, the ladies in the, on the other side of the zoo glass are invested in what I'm doing as well, and they were disappointed for me. 00:08:31.855 --> 00:08:32.904 So I'm gonna do it again. 00:08:33.125 --> 00:08:34.115 I'm gonna do it a third time. 00:08:34.504 --> 00:08:35.945 We're gonna do all the same stuff over again. 00:08:35.945 --> 00:08:36.934 We're gonna keep practicing. 00:08:37.264 --> 00:08:39.225 I failed it by two points- Oh my 00:08:39.225 --> 00:08:39.634 God 00:08:39.715 --> 00:08:40.495 on the third time. 00:08:41.174 --> 00:08:42.615 I had one more chance to take it. 00:08:43.859 --> 00:08:45.399 This is so stressful. 00:08:45.408 --> 00:08:45.839 So 00:08:46.188 --> 00:08:46.558 stressful. 00:08:46.558 --> 00:08:47.239 Were you stressed in there? 00:08:47.308 --> 00:08:47.759 Yes. 00:08:47.808 --> 00:08:48.068 Okay. 00:08:48.078 --> 00:08:52.298 By the third time, I was, I was not, I was not well- 00:08:52.328 --> 00:08:52.558 Yeah 00:08:52.558 --> 00:08:53.639 taking that third test. 00:08:53.708 --> 00:08:54.078 I got it. 00:08:54.239 --> 00:08:58.198 Because the, the real life, the grown-up pressure was on this. 00:08:58.198 --> 00:08:58.469 Yeah. 00:08:58.469 --> 00:08:59.109 This was a career. 00:08:59.109 --> 00:09:00.808 I was making a huge shift away. 00:09:01.119 --> 00:09:02.418

I was taking a chance. 00:09:02.479 --> 00:09:05.979 I- this was the only way I could get a job to teach, is if I passed this thing. 00:09:06.389 --> 00:09:19.869 After all of that, on the fourth test, I did pass, and I barely passed, and I loudly celebrated in my quiet cubicle, in the space you're not supposed to talk, and the ladies outside the zoo glass celebrated when they saw my arms go up- Oh my God because we were just all living this moment that, like- 00:09:19.869 --> 00:09:20.359 Yeah 00:09:20.408 --> 00:09:27.168 here's this poor girl who has come in here 1,000 times and just keeps missing it by, by a mark. 00:09:27.298 --> 00:09:50.058 So all that to say, that was just another grown-up moment for me that proved, in my mind, that small thing that I knew that I was missing when I was doing that math, that if I could have just done it the way they taught me to do it and I didn't have to do all of the other stuff to get to that answer, I would've been quicker, I could've had more time to check my answers, and I probably would've passed. 00:09:51.178 --> 00:09:53.119 So there's a lot that's sort of knitted into that. 00:09:53.208 --> 00:09:56.778 Okay, love the Like, I don't love it, but, like, this totally makes so much sense. 00:09:56.788 --> 00:09:58.349 I believe that deep in my soul. 00:09:58.389 --> 00:10:17.438 Even knowing what I know today, even having the experiences I had today, teaching children math as a kindergarten teacher, working with teachers p- to pick and, and put out a curriculum in our district, even knowing all the things I know today, I still, in my soul, when I dig down deep and think about math for Lauren Keeling, there is only one way to solve that problem and you're not doing it right. 00:10:17.619 --> 00:10:30.389 It- this is so interesting,'cause when I work with teachers, I often, like, I do a lot of talks around, like, defining failure and success, and I find educators c- very often will, like, have this d- idea of success for the people they lead, right? 00:10:30.389 --> 00:10:35.999 Either the teachers they work with or their students, and they'll be like,"Success is just, like You know, it's trying and failing. 00:10:35.999 --> 00:10:37.048 It's showing up. 00:10:37.048 --> 00:10:41.208 It's whatever." But their standard for themselves is always, like, completely different. 00:10:41.219 --> 00:10:41.249 Yep. 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:41.668 Right? 00:10:41.668 --> 00:10:59.879 Like, and it definitely sounds like that for you, because off-screen or mic or whatever, you and I were talking, and you were saying that one of your deep core beliefs is that there are, like, multiple ways to learn things and do things, and even if in math you've gotta get to the one answer, there's so many ways you can do it and all of those are equally valuable. 00:11:00.129 --> 00:11:02.828 And now it seems like you're just, like, completely gaslighting yourself. 00:11:02.839 --> 00:11:03.558 But not for me. 00:11:03.589 --> 00:11:05.379 But not- Yeah, not for you everyone else in the world- Yeah. 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:10.519 can have all the ways to get to mastery, but for me, nope, there's, there's one way and I don't know how to do it. 00:11:10.528 --> 00:11:10.558 Okay. 00:11:10.578 --> 00:11:13.609 So fast-forward, I got my, my licensure. 00:11:13.629 --> 00:11:17.808 I was hired thankfully, to teach third grade. 00:11:18.288 --> 00:11:20.019 And the books in third grade are amazing. 00:11:20.369 --> 00:11:21.558 They're so fun to teach. 00:11:21.589 --> 00:11:23.119 But do you know what else you teach in third grade? 00:11:23.119 --> 00:11:23.278 What? 00:11:23.609 --> 00:11:24.278 Fractions. 00:11:24.428 --> 00:11:25.438 Oh my God, do you love that? 00:11:25.469 --> 00:11:26.558 I hate it- Cool 00:11:26.589 --> 00:11:27.139 deeply. 00:11:28.158 --> 00:11:28.609 Yeah. 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:30.918 So what happened? 00:11:30.918 --> 00:11:34.058 So I taught fractions, and I'm air quoting, I taught fractions. 00:11:34.068 --> 00:11:35.078 Why are you air quoting? 00:11:35.089 --> 00:11:44.099 Because I just had to read directly from the book because that was a style of math that I didn't understand until I started failing forward at cooking and using measuring cups. 00:11:44.129 --> 00:11:53.239 Fractions finally started, started to make a little bit of sense for me in my 30s when I was practicing it that way, which would've been a great strategy to bring into my classroom- Yeah, like 00:11:53.239 --> 00:11:53.499 I'm like- 00:11:53.619 --> 00:11:54.259 for the students so 00:11:54.448 --> 00:12:00.099 I don't wanna be, like, sarcastic and snippy, but I'm like, oh, wow, when you encountered the thing in real life and it was actually relevant- Amazing it made sense. 00:12:00.099 --> 00:12:00.969 Like, shocking. 00:12:00.979 --> 00:12:02.818 Not separate and apart and using strange- 00:12:02.828 --> 00:12:03.298 Wow 00:12:03.349 --> 00:12:03.899 things in a book. 00:12:03.908 --> 00:12:04.288 Yeah. 00:12:04.288 --> 00:12:04.749 Yeah. 00:12:04.749 --> 00:12:09.229 So as soon- I- Third grade, the children were wonderful, the books were great, fractions were horrible. 00:12:09.259 --> 00:12:22.849 I was panicked every day that I was destroying math futures for children because I myself was uncomfortable teaching fractions, and I felt like there was just no possible way that wasn't somehow seeping into a child in the classroom who also was finding it to be a little confusing and uncomfortable. 00:12:23.269 --> 00:12:30.589 And so I only spent one year in third grade, truly because pointing to, I just, I just could not torture myself through teaching fractions. 00:12:30.589 --> 00:12:31.028 Yeah. 00:12:31.328 --> 00:12:33.469 And I got out, and I started teaching kindergarten. 00:12:33.788 --> 00:12:37.788 There are probably a lot of teachers listening that feel the exact way- Mm that you felt in grade three. 00:12:37.808 --> 00:12:38.158 Yeah. 00:12:38.288 -->

00:12:39.649 What would you tell those teachers? 00:12:39.658 --> 00:12:41.139 Like, would you tell them to... 00:12:41.278 --> 00:12:42.099 What, what would you say? 00:12:42.479 --> 00:12:49.149 It's hard as a first-year teacher to feel like you're doing good work- Yeah in any space because you're just figuring it out. 00:12:49.239 --> 00:12:52.649 And then it's also extra hard when it's something that you're not confident in yourself. 00:12:53.158 --> 00:13:01.821 And- If I separate myself from how Lauren Keeling felt, and I look at you as the administrator that I became, I would say,"We're gonna figure it out together." Oh. 00:13:02.020 --> 00:13:30.171 "And I'm gonna give you all the supports that you need, and I actually know a teacher just right across the hall from you who is really doing great work teaching children fractions and can maybe support you in this." As a grown-up who has had great people in her life and who has raised daughters and lived in the world, that what that person needs is just really what you're doing for me right here, providing an opening for them to talk about it and think about it and actually connect to what the real root issue is. 00:13:30.551 --> 00:13:32.110 And then how do we figure it out? 00:13:32.110 --> 00:13:33.191 You love third grade. 00:13:33.191 --> 00:13:34.380 Let's pretend that that's what it is. 00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:35.240 You love third grade. 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:36.869 Oh, but I cannot- This is the space you wanna be in 00:13:36.869 --> 00:13:38.030 imagine teaching third grade, but yes. 00:13:38.160 --> 00:13:40.850 Yeah, there's a lot that's happening in, in and with third graders. 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:41.500 No, but I love it. 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:42.311 I love it so much. 00:13:42.311 --> 00:13:42.421 Yeah. 00:13:42.421 --> 00:13:42.431 Okay? 00:13:42.431 --> 00:13:42.591 So let's say you love it. 00:13:42.591 --> 00:13:42.691 I 00:13:42.691 --> 00:13:44.250 love large rooms of chi- little 00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:44.701 children. 00:13:44.850 --> 00:13:44.990 You're just... 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.030 Yes. 00:13:45.041 --> 00:13:46.250 You, you love that. 00:13:46.421 --> 00:13:49.081 Tons of people are cut for third grade, and that's where they wanna be. 00:13:49.551 --> 00:13:51.660 The math is hard, and that's not gonna change. 00:13:52.150 --> 00:13:53.921 But you're smart. 00:13:54.160 --> 00:13:54.941 You're a teacher. 00:13:54.951 --> 00:13:56.630 You passed all these hard tests. 00:13:56.640 --> 00:14:01.260 You've done all of these things, and you have a really big heart for helping these children figure it out. 00:14:01.711 --> 00:14:07.650 So let's also have a really big heart for you figuring it out, and let your heart be big for yourself to figure it out. 00:14:07.760 --> 00:14:09.850 What kind of grappling work can we do to get there? 00:14:10.071 --> 00:14:10.971 How can I help you? 00:14:11.441 --> 00:14:11.821 I... 00:14:11.870 --> 00:14:20.880 We're gonna need,

once this is done, for you to play ba- that back to yourself- to the grade, the third-grade teacher you were, and I wish someone had said that to you. 00:14:20.961 --> 00:14:25.311 But also, I fully support being like,"I don't wanna torture myself." 00:14:25.311 --> 00:14:25.480 Yeah. 00:14:25.581 --> 00:14:26.390 We are adults. 00:14:26.431 --> 00:14:26.740 Yes. 00:14:26.821 --> 00:14:26.931 Okay? 00:14:26.931 --> 00:14:28.110 We get to choose now. 00:14:28.250 --> 00:14:30.591 We don't have to do anything we don't like. 00:14:30.630 --> 00:14:30.770 Yeah. 00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:30.971 Right? 00:14:30.971 --> 00:14:34.961 So, so you are, uh, uh, fully able to be like,"I actually... 00:14:34.990 --> 00:14:44.711 This..." Like, there are tons of things I do where I'm like,"I could do this- but it's gonna take a lot of work, and I don't wanna put in that work," or,"This is gonna make me miserable, and I don't wanna do it." Yeah. 00:14:44.711 --> 00:14:58.110 It doesn't mean I don't think I can do it, but I think that is a bit of the difference, and you as an administrator, and all the administrators listening to this who probably have teachers that they are leading who feel this way, I think this is really important to hear. 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:00.490 You're not the only one who thinks this. 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:04.500 This is one of the key arguments we will hear from students and from teachers. 00:15:04.850 --> 00:15:23.923 They will say,"It just didn't come naturally for me." But what I like the most about math is that it is a gateway into really highlighting how someone feels about themselves, and it is a gateway to changing the way somebody feels about themselves as a core identity shift. 00:15:23.923 --> 00:15:41.552 Like, I think math can do that because math is so weighted, and it gives people such visceral experiences, often negative- often so identity-based because we do use it as this identity piece, like you're either a math person or not- that we can use it to, like, leverage this incredible identity shift with people. 00:15:41.682 --> 00:15:45.482 Most of us learned that failure is really bad- at some point. 00:15:45.763 --> 00:15:48.072 Definitely failure in school is really bad. 00:15:48.383 --> 00:16:00.393 And so math was, like, this perfect storm for you- Yeah that has formed this childhood protector part, as, like, IFS would say, that now lives within you and wants to make sure you never feel that way again. 00:16:00.932 --> 00:16:19.192 But, like, the core story is untrue because your core story is,"Unless I do math in this specific exact way, I can't be good at it.""And, and if I'm not good at it, I'm a failure." In our society, math is the thing we associate with intelligence. 00:16:19.302 --> 00:16:19.993 Yes. 00:16:20.182 --> 00:16:20.432 Right? 00:16:20.432 --> 00:16:22.113 Like, we don't- Yes, absolutely call Picasso smart. 00:16:22.243 --> 00:16:24.062 We don't call LeBron James smart. 00:16:24.072 --> 00:16:27.273

Like, we call ma- Like, when you're good at math, you are smart. 00:16:27.283 --> 00:16:28.283 That's so true. 00:16:28.543 --> 00:16:35.173 I'm tr- I don't wanna make this gendered, but I am My master's thesis was called Imagining a World Where Paris Hilton Loves Math. 00:16:35.442 --> 00:16:37.413 And it is specifically about women and math. 00:16:37.442 --> 00:16:37.592 I- 00:16:37.592 --> 00:16:38.592 That's a fantastic title- 00:16:38.673 --> 00:16:40.263 Thank you- by the way so much. 00:16:40.543 --> 00:16:53.432 It was about media representation, you know, of mathematicians and of women, and how so many women self-select out of mathematics- because they feel like there's no room for their full identity to merge with the identity of mathematician. 00:16:53.533 --> 00:16:53.692 Yeah. 00:16:54.243 --> 00:16:55.962 There is a lot of research around this. 00:16:55.993 --> 00:17:23.353 So it's not You know, I, I, I bring it up because women tend to be so much harder on themselves than they are with those around them, and this is a, a large reason we see a discrepancy when it comes to gender and mathematics- is because of a wh- a, a whole range of things here, but this being one of them, this idea of if you can't achieve perfection- then it means that you are a failure, and there is nothing worse than being a failure, so you stick to the things you're good at. 00:17:23.903 --> 00:17:24.883 Kids know that. 00:17:24.893 --> 00:17:29.813 They know that they are literally one wrong answer away from getting written off. 00:17:30.482 --> 00:17:34.252 And I hope you're seeing these major themes coming out. 00:17:34.512 --> 00:17:38.133 That math symbolizes so much more for us, right? 00:17:38.133 --> 00:17:39.952 It symbolizes what intelligence is. 00:17:40.032 --> 00:17:40.522 Yes. 00:17:40.752 --> 00:17:41.883 We just bought a house. 00:17:42.573 --> 00:17:51.133 We were talking all about mortgages, and numbers, and percentages, but I certainly didn't wanna have any hands in trying to actually do the numbers, and think about the numbers, and look at the numbers. 00:17:51.153 --> 00:17:54.692 It just, one, made me super nervous because what if I got it wrong? 00:17:55.292 --> 00:18:06.343 I just hated the fact that even if I were going to sit down and try to suss those numbers out and figure out what it might or could be, I could be wrong, and that could have given us a poor picture of what- Sure we were going to do, right? 00:18:06.343 --> 00:18:07.492 That's, like, an actual risk. 00:18:07.502 --> 00:18:07.853 Yeah. 00:18:07.853 --> 00:18:17.952 So there's- Yeah there are, there are real consequences connected to the math that I would be responsible for doing, or thinking through, or putting on paper and actually sharing today. 00:18:18.323 --> 00:18:23.923 And so when I say I feel indifferent, I feel indifferent because I'm just saying,"Okay, someone else can figure this out. 00:18:23.952 --> 00:18:37.712 I can put this on someone else's plate who

is going to get it right because they are math smart, and I don't have to worry about the outcome." If I do it, we gotta worry about the outcome'cause we're gonna have to look at it with a magnifying glass and have somebody else check my work, right? 00:18:38.538 --> 00:18:44.848 My goal with anyone, e- even with students, is like, I don't need you to like go into STEM or do math. 00:18:45.134 --> 00:18:46.358 I actually really do not care. 00:18:46.689 --> 00:18:50.729 I care that you believe that you could if you wanted to or needed to. 00:18:51.179 --> 00:18:51.886 That's actually what I care about. 00:18:52.255 --> 00:18:56.118 Like, like right now you're not in a position to be figuring out mortgages, right? 00:18:56.118 --> 00:18:56.419 Right. 00:18:56.439 --> 00:18:58.838 Like you like have math trauma from grade one. 00:18:58.888 --> 00:18:59.689 You don't like it. 00:18:59.699 --> 00:19:01.368 It sucks, and there's someone who can do it. 00:19:01.394 --> 00:19:03.088 So like, it's really, there's nothing... 00:19:03.088 --> 00:19:04.638 I don't want us feeling bad about that. 00:19:04.669 --> 00:19:04.848 Yeah. 00:19:04.848 --> 00:19:06.259 Like you don't need to be like doing your own math. 00:19:06.259 --> 00:19:09.419 It's like when somebody uses a calculator I'm like,"Don't feel bad about it." Yeah. 00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:14.778 "Maybe you just didn't feel like thinking about it in the moment." Like I don't care what you're doing, I just want you to know you're capable of doing it. 00:19:14.788 --> 00:19:30.838 Again, uh, when I was talking about my master's thesis, the, the big finding from that was that for young girls, like the girls that I was working at, in order to become math people it meant they had to shed the identity they had. 00:19:30.848 --> 00:19:34.179 For example, a lot of them were, were like cheerleaders. 00:19:34.868 --> 00:19:37.788 We have never seen a cheerleader represented as being good at math in the media. 00:19:37.788 --> 00:19:38.808 The two are the opposite. 00:19:38.808 --> 00:19:40.439 We all know the movie, right? 00:19:40.449 --> 00:19:47.838 Like you're either the cheerleader who needs like the like, uh, the, the smart girl to like help her with math, and then you give the smart girl a makeover and then she be- like whatever. 00:19:48.358 --> 00:19:50.749 So there was a very big identity conflict. 00:19:50.778 --> 00:19:52.118 These girls were great at math. 00:19:52.128 --> 00:19:52.959 They were getting 90s. 00:19:52.969 --> 00:20:01.669 They were getting As in my, my grade 10 classroom, but they were deter- they were like,"We are not good at math." And when we really dug down to it, it was kind of like this conversation we're having here. 00:20:01.679 --> 00:20:01.909 Yeah. 00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:06.199 Where like the proof, the evidence was that they were good at math. 00:20:06.999 --> 00:20:11.939 But it was like, but if they became good at math, did, did they have to let go of something else? 00:20:11.949 --> 00:20:12.169 Yes. 00:20:12.169 --> 00:20:13.858 Did it mean that they had to engage in different behavior? 00:20:14.209 --> 00:20:16.638 And I think we really disregard the identity. 00:20:16.679 --> 00:20:18.318 You know, we talk about math identity a lot. 00:20:19.048 --> 00:20:29.288 But I think we're missing a very key component of math identity which is how does math identity, like in the Venn diagram of identities, how does math identity intersect with our own identity? 00:20:29.338 --> 00:20:29.469 Mm. 00:20:29.479 --> 00:20:31.358 Is it diametrically opposed to it? 00:20:31.939 --> 00:20:33.278 What, what happens, right? 00:20:33.278 --> 00:20:35.828 Like math identity isn't just about math. 00:20:35.848 --> 00:20:41.759 Is, it's about what math means in relationship with all the other identities we hold. 00:20:42.788 --> 00:20:45.288 I, you have struck me speechless. 00:20:46.989 --> 00:20:48.088 Which has never happened- 00:20:48.169 --> 00:20:48.719 Okay, I 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:50.898 know in the history of this podcast. 00:20:51.719 --> 00:20:52.598 Don't believe that. 00:20:53.368 --> 00:21:03.338 The problem is, what being a math person also means, whether we choose to accept it or not, is it means things like you don't like creative things. 00:21:03.608 --> 00:21:05.959 Like, think about every stereotype of what- Yes a math person. 00:21:06.138 --> 00:21:08.288 You definitely don't like music and the arts. 00:21:08.499 --> 00:21:10.088 You're a logical thinker. 00:21:10.298 --> 00:21:11.538 You're boring. 00:21:11.749 --> 00:21:14.298 You always get the right answer. 00:21:14.318 --> 00:21:16.048 You sit and study all the time. 00:21:16.128 --> 00:21:18.249 There's so many things the term means. 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.818 So the problem is, I'm not surprised when you're like,"You know what? 00:21:22.858 --> 00:21:23.828 I kind of... 00:21:24.648 --> 00:21:36.009 Being not a math person is part of my core identity." I think that it's a really interesting question to ask because the question is, should we be pushing people to become a math person? 00:21:36.568 --> 00:21:42.679 Or is there, is it perhaps, counterproductive to our goal, which is to... 00:21:42.808 --> 00:21:46.919 Like, my goal is to show every single student that they can build an, a better relationship with math. 00:21:47.088 --> 00:21:49.628 It's for people to just feel capable and to be like,"Hey, you know what? 00:21:49.999 --> 00:21:53.138 I'm capable of more than I thought I was, including these fractions." 00:21:53.169 --> 00:21:53.509 Yeah. 00:21:53.548 --> 00:22:03.798 But my agenda is not to be like,"No, you need to call yourselves a, yourself a math person." I, I hate labeling in general, so why are we now using this as a label? 00:22:04.038 --> 00:22:07.788 I don't have to become a math person to just be able to do math. 00:22:08.098 --> 00:22:09.239 Exactly. 00:22:09.598 --> 00:22:19.269 I even think about that from a school

perspective, to release children from, and teachers from, are you this person or are you that person? 00:22:19.269 --> 00:22:20.648 Why are we doing that? 00:22:21.528 --> 00:22:22.078 Ew. 00:22:22.368 --> 00:22:25.898 And it's okay to like math, and it's okay to like reading. 00:22:26.499 --> 00:22:29.729 But to like those things does not make you that person. 00:22:30.489 --> 00:22:34.449 And to like those things doesn't mean all of a sudden you have to go into a STEM career. 00:22:34.979 --> 00:22:37.788 So what is it, Vanessa, that you do? 00:22:37.949 --> 00:22:39.919 What did I come here needing from you today? 00:22:40.038 --> 00:22:42.038 I, I mean, you should tell me that probably. 00:22:43.898 --> 00:22:44.009 It probably shouldn't be for you. 00:22:44.618 --> 00:22:54.480 But no, I think that, the number one thing people need in my experience is validation. 00:22:54.550 --> 00:22:54.840 Mm. 00:22:55.300 --> 00:22:57.211 They need to feel val- feel validated. 00:22:57.550 --> 00:22:59.451 They need to see that they're not alone. 00:23:00.421 --> 00:23:11.760 And the reason I like to always start opening the conversation, and whenever I do a talk I do this, I say, I, I frame it as I would like everyone to think about whether they've ever had a negative experience with math. 00:23:11.810 --> 00:23:15.240 That's my number one teacher move, and we did it here today. 00:23:16.330 --> 00:23:21.201 The reason that can be so groundbreaking for people is when they start talking about it, which you did, right? 00:23:21.530 --> 00:23:27.990 And I hope for you it's really empowering because it shows you that you were not born with these feelings. 00:23:28.401 --> 00:23:30.540 You developed these feelings, right? 00:23:30.550 --> 00:23:32.621 Emotions encode experience. 00:23:32.901 --> 00:23:36.681 When we have an experience that is very emotional, we remember that experience. 00:23:36.681 --> 00:23:39.221 It forms a memory that it's very hard to let go of. 00:23:39.641 --> 00:23:47.340 Neuroscience shows us that the percentage of people born with a natural aptitude for mathematics is so small. 00:23:47.340 --> 00:23:50.240 Like, like, you know when you think about like a prodigy or something like that? 00:23:50.681 --> 00:24:16.944 The It exists, but the percentage is so, so, so, so, so small, and other than that subset of people Math ability being something that you are born with, like nature versus nurture- the nature part of it, it is so, so, so small- in terms of its effect on your future math ability, and the biggest predictor of math ability is nurture. 00:24:17.105 --> 00:24:17.815 It's practice. 00:24:17.815 --> 00:24:19.625 Like, have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? 00:24:19.664 --> 00:24:19.964 No. 00:24:20.015 --> 00:24:21.384 Oh my God, what? 00:24:22.085 --> 00:24:23.414 Okay, no, stop. 00:24:23.434 --> 00:24:34.815 Okay, we, like, just, this book, it's about, like, the most famous hockey players, the most famous mathematicians, the most famous mu- musicians, the ones that you would believe, like, they must have been born with an exceptionality, they're so good at it. 00:24:35.424 --> 00:24:46.335 And he did all this research and found that the one thing all of these people had in common, they had one thing in common, and the one thing they had in common was that they had all spent over 10,000 hours practicing their craft. 00:24:46.345 --> 00:24:46.365 Wow. 00:24:46.924 --> 00:24:53.815 So, and if you think about it that way, to put in 10,000 hours, it would help if you started at a young age. 00:24:54.275 --> 00:24:55.065 It's a lot of hours to put in, right? 00:24:55.994 --> 00:25:11.954 So often, it- we, we conflate nature and nurture because the conversation would be like,"Well, from a, from a young age, they were so good at this thing," but it would often be someone who was, like, tinkering with the piano when they, like, were three years old- or, like, you know, Eugenia Cheng talks about how her parents, like, would read her math stories at night. 00:25:11.954 --> 00:25:13.684 Like, instead of story time, they had math games. 00:25:13.684 --> 00:25:27.884 Like, so w- we have been shown time and time again that nurture plays a larger role, yet we love, we love the juicy story of people born with this crazy thing, and it also gives us an excuse- right? 00:25:27.894 --> 00:25:29.984 To be like,"Well, I just was born at a deficit." 00:25:30.105 --> 00:25:30.355 Yep. 00:25:30.375 --> 00:25:31.424 But it's just, it's not true. 00:25:32.555 --> 00:25:34.835 So tell me how this feeds into the work that you do. 00:25:35.305 --> 00:25:35.664 Okay. 00:25:35.694 --> 00:25:41.815 So I feel like I wrote Math Therapy after years and years and years of, you know... 00:25:41.815 --> 00:25:45.525 I, I think if you talk to most teachers, they're like,"Yeah, I'm doing therapy in the math classroom," right? 00:25:45.535 --> 00:25:45.615 Sure. 00:25:45.615 --> 00:25:47.694 Like, a lot of the work I'm doing is really therapeutic. 00:25:48.454 --> 00:26:10.540 so I wrote it after years and years and years, over 20 years of teaching and tutoring and working one-on-one with kids, and, Really realizing that the, the number one thing, I mean, I've had so many different types of students in this space, and the number one thing that makes a difference is actually not whether they're taught through the algorithm or not, or with worksheets or not. 00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:17.681 It's, I mean, those things matter, but the number one thing that mattered was actually the therapeutic element of interacting with them. 00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:19.300 It was doing stuff like this. 00:26:19.310 --> 00:26:20.590 It was having these conversations. 00:26:20.601 --> 00:26:22.570 It was h- it was so emotional. 00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:30.340 One of the biggest strategies is when somebody says they feel bad at math or they're not, they're not good at math, I often start arguing with them.

00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:32.941 I'll be like,"But you're doing math, but you do this. 00:26:32.941 --> 00:26:41.371 Like look, you took down the Christmas tree, like, that's math." And what I'll find is what they actually really mean is,"I wasn't good at school math." 00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:41.990 Mm. 00:26:42.020 --> 00:26:50.250 Like,"I wasn't good at the math that got graded, that got evaluated." So I wanna sit with you, and we're gonna actually do a little skills analysis. 00:26:50.300 --> 00:26:50.570 Okay. 00:26:50.611 --> 00:26:50.980 Okay? 00:26:51.381 --> 00:26:54.181 So I want you to name me math skills. 00:26:54.540 --> 00:26:55.971 Like, or, I, so here's the count. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.941 It's math skills or things that are math. 00:26:57.951 --> 00:26:59.230 So I'm gonna write the f- one thing on here. 00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:02.300 I'm gonna say mental math. 00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:02.911 Okay. 00:27:03.030 --> 00:27:03.290 Okay? 00:27:04.351 --> 00:27:04.941 Give me one. 00:27:05.391 --> 00:27:06.270 Uh, addition. 00:27:06.661 --> 00:27:07.121 Addition. 00:27:07.151 --> 00:27:07.891 Okay, great. 00:27:08.280 --> 00:27:13.894 I'm gonna say, baking 00:27:14.654 --> 00:27:14.795 Mm. 00:27:14.954 --> 00:27:15.744 Planting my garden 00:27:16.555 --> 00:27:17.694 What do, like, what do you do? 00:27:18.184 --> 00:27:23.795 Making my rows, figuring out the distances and the, the distances between each of my flowers that I'm planting- How 00:27:23.795 --> 00:27:24.184 do you do 00:27:24.184 --> 00:27:24.275 that? 00:27:24.275 --> 00:27:26.755 the depth of putting the bulbs in the ground. 00:27:27.265 --> 00:27:27.505 I, 00:27:27.855 --> 00:27:28.674 I use- Oh, like, do you use a ruler? 00:27:28.674 --> 00:27:30.744 I use non-standard measurement, my arm, but- 00:27:31.345 --> 00:27:31.575 But you- 00:27:31.575 --> 00:27:33.194 I told you I love non-standard measurement. 00:27:33.224 --> 00:27:34.704 No, but that's really good. 00:27:34.855 --> 00:27:34.974 Okay, plant- 00:27:34.974 --> 00:27:37.345 So yes, it's gardening, you know. 00:27:37.355 --> 00:27:38.244 Planting a garden. 00:27:38.694 --> 00:27:48.194 Now, if I had a student who felt bad at math, I would do this with them, and then I'd be like,"Okay, I would look up how these tied to the content I was teaching right now." Mm. 00:27:48.204 --> 00:27:49.454 So I'd be like,"Planting a garden. 00:27:49.494 --> 00:27:51.674 Here are all the units that I'm teaching this year. 00:27:51.835 --> 00:27:55.545 Tell me exactly how this ties in." Why would I do that? 00:27:55.605 --> 00:28:00.394 Because you, Lauren, are sitting here being like,"Yeah, I guess I do this math, but I didn't really qualify it as math." 00:28:00.404 --> 00:28:00.694 Yeah. 00:28:00.744 --> 00:28:07.315 In your mind, I bet you're like,"It doesn't really count." And that is where we start seeing that it is not math the problem. 00:28:07.345 --> 00:28:08.065 It- that's the problem. 00:28:08.065 --> 00:28:12.095 It's the way we are treating math in a school setting that is ruining math for everyone. 00:28:12.484 --> 00:28:13.134 Yes. 00:28:13.335 --> 00:28:16.154 Like, you were never graded at this, and that is the only thing that counts. 00:28:16.575 --> 00:28:18.194 Okay, so now I'm gonna give you this. 00:28:18.194 --> 00:28:18.265 Okay. 00:28:18.265 --> 00:28:22.634 And I want you to, with this pink pen, I want you to circle, like, anything you feel good at. 00:28:23.005 --> 00:28:23.525 I feel good at? 00:28:23.835 --> 00:28:23.865 Yeah. 00:28:23.934 --> 00:28:25.724 Well, planting a garden is first. 00:28:25.835 --> 00:28:26.105 Okay. 00:28:26.684 --> 00:28:27.980 And you feel, like, satisfied after or 00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:28.105 something? 00:28:28.105 --> 00:28:28.355 I do. 00:28:28.355 --> 00:28:30.224 I feel really great after I plant my garden. 00:28:30.335 --> 00:28:35.875 Just the way that it looks like it fits in the space- Okay that's a real puzzle to me that I love putting together. 00:28:36.115 --> 00:28:36.125 Oh 00:28:36.414 --> 00:28:37.174 my God, you put puzzles on the list. 00:28:37.174 --> 00:28:37.204 Puzzles. 00:28:37.204 --> 00:28:37.484 Yeah. 00:28:37.535 --> 00:28:37.954 Okay. 00:28:38.355 --> 00:28:39.615 So I want us to look at this. 00:28:39.845 --> 00:28:46.154 So we have 19 items on here, and you circled one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. 00:28:46.154 --> 00:28:46.765 11 out of 19. 00:28:46.765 --> 00:28:47.244 Hmm. 00:28:47.954 --> 00:28:51.805 Over a half of the things on here you circled, okay? 00:28:53.265 --> 00:29:01.144 I would now like you to look at this and ask yourself, do you believe everything you circled has some sort of mathematical component? 00:29:03.136 --> 00:29:03.406 I do. 00:29:03.957 --> 00:29:05.497 You've circled a lot of math stuff. 00:29:05.946 --> 00:29:08.336 And there's a lot of stuff you circled that I wouldn't be able to circle. 00:29:09.047 --> 00:29:12.126 Does this change in any way the way you feel about your math ability? 00:29:12.497 --> 00:29:15.737 And you can say no, I'm just curious, looking at all the math things you circled. 00:29:15.826 --> 00:29:19.777 It does because it's what I think, I don't think about sneaky math. 00:29:20.596 --> 00:29:22.467 So for me, sneaky math is where- 00:29:23.017 --> 00:29:24.217 I'm sorry, pardon? 00:29:26.317 --> 00:29:33.287 Sneaky math, where we're, where we're looking at angles and thinking about putting together, uh, my garden or arranging my furniture. 00:29:33.797 --> 00:29:37.406 I'm not actively working and manipulating numbers. 00:29:39.186 --> 00:29:40.487 Sneaky math. 00:29:41.396 --> 00:29:46.876 I don't mind putting my garden together because I don't actually have to come into contact with numbers when I'm doing it. 00:29:46.876 --> 00:29:47.007 Okay. 00:29:47.267 --> 00:29:49.166 I fully get what you mean, 100%. 00:29:49.166 --> 00:29:50.916 Measuring and baking is sneaky math. 00:29:50.916 -->

00:29:51.067 It's sneaky math. 00:29:51.067 --> 00:29:56.176 I didn't realize I was doing fractions until I had a moment where I thought,"Wait, three quarters of a cup is the same as a..." 00:29:56.846 --> 00:30:01.136 If we made more sneaky math, so can we call it implicit math just for what I'm gonna say? 00:30:01.136 --> 00:30:01.346 Sure. 00:30:01.366 --> 00:30:02.307 It's gonna sound like more of a mic drop. 00:30:02.567 --> 00:30:10.866 Okay, so if we made more implicit math explicit, more people would realize how much math they were doing and how good they were at it. 00:30:11.186 --> 00:30:11.737 Yes. 00:30:12.267 --> 00:30:14.596 Think about how much discussion we can now be having with kids. 00:30:14.977 --> 00:30:19.436 And kids are like,"Oh my God, well, I do this," and then just like we were, we're like,"Okay, well, what about this? 00:30:19.636 --> 00:30:20.106 And what... 00:30:20.176 --> 00:30:24.997 Okay, fine, if you're gonna say baking, I'm gonna say measuring." Now we're realizing how much math we're doing. 00:30:25.317 --> 00:30:36.946 For a lot of kids, and probably for you a little, you're like,"Okay, but it's not feeling like it's, I didn't say algebra, and I didn't say sine and cosine." So we wanna tie it to the things we're doing in our curriculum and the content we're teaching. 00:30:36.946 --> 00:30:40.656 We do wanna tie it in- and, and give it that language. 00:30:40.666 --> 00:30:41.406 That really helps. 00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:48.101 As we've established, on this sheet here, you have so many math superpowers that I don't have. 00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:56.431 And every single person has these latent math skills, these, sorry, implicit sneaky math skills- that are not necessarily brought to the fore. 00:30:56.881 --> 00:31:03.780 And part of what you were saying earlier is you felt like you weren't good at math'cause you weren't doing it the way you were supposed to or the way other people do it. 00:31:03.921 --> 00:31:08.221 And what I want everyone to know is that is actually your math superpower. 00:31:08.300 --> 00:31:08.510 Mm. 00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:13.191 Is that when you're planning the garden, you're using your- You've made up this whole method, right? 00:31:13.191 --> 00:31:17.861 Like, you're doing, you have all these skills that not everybody in the class has. 00:31:18.530 --> 00:31:25.851 And in a classroom of students, you are gonna have kids who have all circled different things on this page, and that is not bad. 00:31:25.961 --> 00:31:30.580 That is the blessing in it, is to be like,"Guys, look, you guys all have these different skills. 00:31:30.760 --> 00:31:34.480 And in our room combined, we have, like, 30-plus math superpowers. 00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:43.560 We have all something different to bring to the table." It also create, helps create this collaborative environment where instead of kids competing to one another, you can be like,"Hey, you need help with that? 00:31:43.701 --> 00:31:46.171 Well,

like, Sally circled this thing. 00:31:46.181 --> 00:31:48.721 Their, their math superpower is problem-solving. 00:31:48.730 --> 00:31:49.901 Go talk to them about this. 00:31:50.151 --> 00:31:51.871 Oh, you need help with counting? 00:31:51.871 --> 00:31:53.050 Didn't somebody..." Like, right? 00:31:53.090 --> 00:31:58.510 And so everyone is now not competing with one another, but realizing that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. 00:31:58.510 --> 00:31:58.750 Mm. 00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:02.201 Okay, the last thing I wanted us to do is on your phone, give me your phone. 00:32:02.211 --> 00:32:02.540 Yes. 00:32:03.451 --> 00:32:04.411 Open up Duolingo. 00:32:04.961 --> 00:32:07.330 They have now added math as a language, okay? 00:32:07.330 --> 00:32:07.590 I see that. 00:32:07.590 --> 00:32:08.911 So add math to your thing. 00:32:09.661 --> 00:32:10.911 And great. 00:32:11.201 --> 00:32:12.230 So we're not... 00:32:12.250 --> 00:32:13.441 Do you wanna do a lesson right now? 00:32:13.471 --> 00:32:13.820 Sure. 00:32:13.921 --> 00:32:14.661 Oh, okay. 00:32:14.711 --> 00:32:15.931 We're now suddenly doing math. 00:32:15.971 --> 00:32:16.500 Okay, go for it. 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:17.270 I'm not even looking. 00:32:17.431 --> 00:32:18.101 Okay, keep going. 00:32:18.101 --> 00:32:18.401 Okay. 00:32:18.500 --> 00:32:19.330 I think there's only a few. 00:32:19.330 --> 00:32:20.121 It'll take, like, one minute. 00:32:20.131 --> 00:32:20.161 Okay. 00:32:20.171 --> 00:32:21.080 But you do that. 00:32:21.830 --> 00:32:23.750 See how it goes, and I'm gonna- Tell 00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:28.020 me if this is a, while I'm working on this- Yeah maybe tell me, is this a practical strategy for- 00:32:28.090 --> 00:32:28.570 I have gotten- 00:32:28.570 --> 00:32:29.330 parents, teachers? 00:32:29.580 --> 00:32:34.931 The reason I love it is, is it's, so when we go into avoidance with math, like you were saying, you avoid math. 00:32:35.040 --> 00:32:35.391 I do. 00:32:35.421 --> 00:32:37.201 We're not gonna get better at something when we avoid it. 00:32:37.211 --> 00:32:38.800 That's just, like, how life works. 00:32:40.121 --> 00:32:41.000 I'm doing really well. 00:32:42.861 --> 00:32:50.730 Just, sorry, I can't hear my lo- my voice over all the loud bings and bops- happening from Lauren's mastery of mathematics right now. 00:32:51.760 --> 00:33:06.820 so it's three minutes a day, and it starts building confidence, and but more than that, it shows you, it rewires the thing in your brain that you have, which is,"When I do math, a horrible thing happens." Whether you get the answers right or wrong on the app, you're seeing that when you do math, a horrible thing does not happen. 00:33:07.401 --> 00:33:08.861 Actually, a really joyful thing happens. 00:33:08.861 --> 00:33:12.601 A joyful thing happens, and even if you get something wrong, you're just gonna try again the next day. 00:33:12.861 --> 00:33:16.101 When we have math anxiety, we get stuck in the anxiety avoidance cycle. 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.510 And we are never gonna get out of it unless we break the cycle out of avoidance, which means we need to do some math, and it's a great way to do math. 00:33:21.881 --> 00:33:23.250 You are really crushing here. 00:33:23.270 --> 00:33:24.361 I'm really doing a great job. 00:33:24.391 --> 00:33:25.500 What is happening? 00:33:25.851 --> 00:33:26.530 Okay, we're almost done. 00:33:26.550 --> 00:33:26.830 Yep. 00:33:27.451 --> 00:33:31.211 I pulled something out of this that you just said- Yeah that Duolingo's doing. 00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:33.290 Math is a language. 00:33:33.361 --> 00:33:34.201 Well, I, right? 00:33:34.201 --> 00:33:36.070 Can, can I just tell you what they added? 00:33:36.080 --> 00:33:37.451 They added math and music. 00:33:37.681 --> 00:33:43.500 Those were the two new languages, and I was like,"Again- Yes this is a language issue." It is a language. 00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:44.560 It is. 00:33:44.560 --> 00:33:46.961 And it is okay for language to be hard to learn. 00:33:47.911 --> 00:33:48.391 Preach. 00:33:49.580 --> 00:33:50.510 And we're also now really- 00:33:50.510 --> 00:33:51.221 I think I'm done. 00:33:51.221 --> 00:33:53.240 I don't feel stressed because I... 00:33:54.421 --> 00:33:55.601 I mean, I'm done here. 00:33:56.570 --> 00:33:57.310 I'm finished. 00:33:57.740 --> 00:33:59.151 Well, I'm a learning legend. 00:33:59.601 --> 00:34:00.260 Is that what it says? 00:34:00.270 --> 00:34:00.530 Uh-huh. 00:34:01.580 --> 00:34:04.280 Okay, so every day, just do it for two weeks and see what happens. 00:34:04.530 --> 00:34:10.221 Can I just point out that you just not only did math, you did math while we're all actually kind of now impatiently waiting. 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:11.780 At this point, we're on the third battery. 00:34:12.101 --> 00:34:12.971 I am staring at you. 00:34:12.971 --> 00:34:15.920 You actually were talking at the same time, and you're being recorded. 00:34:16.081 --> 00:34:17.391 You did not seem stressed. 00:34:17.811 --> 00:34:20.360 Landing on the fact that math is a language- 00:34:20.630 --> 00:34:21.170 That's crazy 00:34:21.530 --> 00:34:29.150 that we speak is a big deal for me personally as a learner, as a teacher, as a thinker. 00:34:29.661 --> 00:34:42.130 It lifts, releases, throws away, pushes out the window a lot of the pressure around just having to show up and be good at it because we don't expect anyone to show up and just be good at a language. 00:34:42.130 --> 00:34:46.561 We teach really explicitly and thoughtfully and with full hearts. 00:34:47.101 --> 00:34:47.920 It's the same with math. 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.501 Math is a language. 00:34:49.670 --> 00:34:52.820 Should we just end with the Duolingo beep being like,"Good job"? 00:34:53.922 --> 00:34:53.943 Yay. 00:34:53.943 --> 00:34:54.525 Should we crown Lauren? 00:34:54.525 --> 00:34:55.963 Oh! There you go. 00:34:56.182 --> 00:34:59.802 There you go, the, the unicorn of understanding. 00:34:59.822 --> 00:34:59.913 Oh. 00:35:00.552 --> 00:35:01.543 I love it. 00:35:01.672 --> 00:35:03.112 There she is, our queen. 00:35:03.643 --> 00:35:04.612 Our math queen. 00:35:05.452 --> 00:35:06.682 Oh, I do love a crown. 00:35:10.204 --> 00:35:11.824 ​Oh my God, guys. 00:35:11.894 --> 00:35:13.335 Was that not insane? 00:35:13.565 --> 00:35:18.574 I am dying to know what you think, so text the podcast now by hitting the link in your show notes. 00:35:18.795 --> 00:35:24.755 And I don't wanna say too much because remember, next week I follow up with Lauren to see how she's doing four months later. 00:35:24.914 --> 00:35:32.114 So put a reminder in your calendar for next Thursday at 6:00 AM EST, because you are going to want to be the first to hear this. 00:35:32.594 --> 00:35:35.525 Thanks again to Imagine Learning for letting us share this audio. 00:35:35.744 --> 00:35:39.284 Go check them out and the three-part Heart Work series on math anxiety. 00:35:39.375 --> 00:35:40.224 Link in the show notes. 00:35:40.264 --> 00:35:42.284 And guys, thank you for being here. 00:35:42.355 --> 00:35:47.644 Thank you for listening, and thank you for believing that everyone can build a happier, healthier relationship with math