התמלול המלא של Kayfabe Math is Now Mainstream

you're right. I don't know I don't know why we're wrong, but you're right. Come on the podcast, and you can yell at us. 60 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:26.915 Oh, totally. Yeah. That's what I told him. That's what I told him. I don't mean I'm the only person in my podcasting relationships 61 00:04:26.915 --> 00:04:30.035 that does what I'm about to say I do, but I really listen. 62 00:04:30.435 --> 00:04:36.275 I don't my forty hours a week is constantly like relistening to my own podcasts. That's bad entropy. 63 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:39.260 Well, you're right. But 64 00:04:40.380 --> 00:04:43.740 I'd say it's not it's not an entire closed system, but, 65 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:47.580 you know, it's what I'm interested in. 66 00:04:47.980 --> 00:04:48.300 It's 67 00:04:48.965 --> 00:04:53.765 is it bad entropy? I don't know. I mean, it may be bad entropy, but it's good it's good. 68 00:04:55.685 --> 00:04:59.765 Well, the thing is you have a high entropy. You have high entropy of the podcast that you create. 69 00:05:01.570 --> 00:05:06.210 Right? Yes. Like, have many kinds of themes of podcasts. So that is 70 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:08.290 that is good. 71 00:05:08.610 --> 00:05:13.650 It's bad entropy around my confirmation bias, but it's good entropy around general 72 00:05:13.845 --> 00:05:14.965 just general, 73 00:05:15.365 --> 00:05:16.085 you know? 74 00:05:16.565 --> 00:05:22.485 I don't know. I think it's a good place to be in, and maybe it's like you have like, I have to break through that. Once I break through that, 75 00:05:22.725 --> 00:05:27.605 I'm really ready. I then I can really trust the entropy I'm getting for myself in the world. 76 00:05:29.940 --> 00:05:37.139 You know? It's and it's it's like getting through all these other rabbit holes before you get to the the granddaddy, the one you won't escape, which is 77 00:05:37.940 --> 00:05:43.300 maybe we'll debate this later. But but I was all to say is, like, I I remember the Pascal conversation like it was yesterday. 78 00:05:43.865 --> 00:05:51.065 You know, like, I talk about these conversations a lot with my daughter. I'm like, oh, you know, we had this conversation. It's math you know, about Pascal. 79 00:05:51.545 --> 00:05:54.665 And Yeah. You know, math, religion 80 00:05:54.905 --> 00:05:58.265 are those are pretty big topics in my household. So, like, 81 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.919 they're you know, it's it's 82 00:06:01.919 --> 00:06:03.840 always this stuff is always getting covered. 83 00:06:05.520 --> 00:06:06.000 It's 84 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:12.639 I think it's part of rich discourse to have this all part of it. And I think it's better entropy than dreidels. 85 00:06:13.405 --> 00:06:14.525 Well, that's true. 86 00:06:16.205 --> 00:06:18.605 Which by the way, I should just specify. 87 00:06:18.605 --> 00:06:20.685 Dreidels are are a Hanukkah toy. 88 00:06:21.005 --> 00:06:21.725 Mhmm. 89 00:06:21.965 --> 00:06:25.645 They come up you know, they're I don't know that it's like a globally Jewish toy. 90 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.920 Well, just for Hanukkah. Or are saying it's, like, American? I I thought it was like It's kinda like 91 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:33.160 it's like 92 00:06:33.960 --> 00:06:34.840 mistletoe. 93 00:06:34.840 --> 00:06:40.680 Right? You'd like, mistletoe is not used universally for the most part. Right? It's only used around Christmas time. 94 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:46.595 Yeah. You can. You can enjoy mistletoe anywhere and anytime you want. 95 00:06:46.914 --> 00:06:47.475 Mhmm. 96 00:06:48.115 --> 00:06:48.995 But its 97 00:06:49.315 --> 00:06:51.875 relevance and significance and use 98 00:06:52.034 --> 00:06:56.640 is only around this one time of the year. Yeah. Got it. That makes sense. 99 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:58.240 Yeah. I would say, 100 00:06:58.960 --> 00:07:00.320 speaking of waiting 101 00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:01.360 Mhmm. 102 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:09.155 I did an informal experiment on the Anchor Watch challenge coin you gave me. Okay. At my meetup. 103 00:07:10.275 --> 00:07:11.155 Feels weighted. Oh, 104 00:07:11.555 --> 00:07:13.795 feels weighted. We were spinning it like a dreidel. 105 00:07:14.035 --> 00:07:15.235 That so and 106 00:07:17.475 --> 00:07:31.770 that's when we figured out that we think that that the Bitcoin side is a little a little heavily weighted based on our You got my hustle. You know how much money I've made doing coin flips on that? Like, that's funny. What's the Anton Chagor from No Country for Old Men call it? We 107 00:07:33.610 --> 00:07:34.890 did like 20 108 00:07:35.145 --> 00:07:37.065 spins in about two hours. 109 00:07:37.944 --> 00:07:45.385 Yeah. This is when I started imagining how much of a bitch it would be to spin a dreidel. And do the chi square test for randomness. 110 00:07:45.865 --> 00:07:46.585 Yeah. 111 00:07:46.824 --> 00:07:50.345 Oh, man. But I think flipping it, throwing it up and flipping it. 112 00:07:51.290 --> 00:07:55.530 This is a PSA if you're using the Angouwise Challenge Coin. 113 00:07:55.770 --> 00:07:56.970 Yeah. Your Entropy. 114 00:07:57.450 --> 00:08:00.970 Throw it up and flip it. What it is, it's a great card protector if you're playing poker. 115 00:08:01.130 --> 00:08:02.170 Just a big 116 00:08:02.730 --> 00:08:04.970 obviously not a chip. Cool and shiny. 117 00:08:05.985 --> 00:08:08.145 It's pretty cool. Before 118 00:08:08.145 --> 00:08:10.225 we move on, I was talking, 119 00:08:10.545 --> 00:08:22.800 I was at the open source Bitcoin summit and at Presidio Bitcoin this week. First off, Presidio Bitcoin is beautiful. I've never been there. I've only had spent before this week, three, four days in San Francisco in total my entire life. The Presidio 120 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:27.760 did not realize this. It's on the northern it's like basically on the South Side of the Golden Gate Bridge. 121 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:30.480 It is this park 122 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:32.800 on the

northern tip of that part of the land mass. 123 00:08:33.605 --> 00:08:38.725 It's a federal it's federal land because it used to be the western command center for all of World War two, 124 00:08:39.365 --> 00:08:51.860 and it's beautiful and clean. It is the it like and I walked around. Was like, oh, this is what all of San Francisco should be. Just like a complete, like, former military based techno fascist lockdown because it was nice and clean and enjoyable to walk around. And, 125 00:08:53.060 --> 00:08:53.380 there 126 00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:56.580 I was on a panel with a security 127 00:08:56.580 --> 00:08:57.940 engineer, block Jordan, 128 00:08:58.404 --> 00:09:05.045 and he he made it, I was talking about we were talking about entropy and randomness. I said, well, who's ever actually run, like, a chi squared test on their, 129 00:09:05.685 --> 00:09:10.005 on their entropy? And he said, well, I haven't personally, but in the BitKey firmware 130 00:09:10.629 --> 00:09:18.389 is a Pearson chi square test. And I just pulled it up and there is in the firmware. They actually do full generation, 131 00:09:19.269 --> 00:09:24.790 and a histogram to show how the entropy is being created within the BitKey. I I I'm looking at it right now. 132 00:09:25.269 --> 00:09:26.545 So it's in the GitHub? 133 00:09:26.865 --> 00:09:35.825 It's in their GitHub. It's public. There's a like, the the there's a chi squared test, a unit test that runs within the firmware. It's 134 00:09:35.825 --> 00:09:38.170 probably I mean, it really is probably 135 00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:41.370 it's it's a minimum, I think, minimum standard 136 00:09:41.770 --> 00:09:52.330 if you're gonna You're doing randomness, bud. And LibC like like, LibSecP also has, like like, distribution tests and stuff that it it has in it too, but, like, no one's doing a check on the check 137 00:09:53.084 --> 00:09:54.845 except for block it looks like. 138 00:09:55.644 --> 00:09:56.925 Yeah. Again, 139 00:09:56.925 --> 00:10:02.125 I think we talked about this last time, but like if you're even going to use a machine's 140 00:10:02.685 --> 00:10:04.204 random number generator, 141 00:10:05.084 --> 00:10:05.725 that 142 00:10:06.685 --> 00:10:10.070 machine should give you a mountain of 143 00:10:10.550 --> 00:10:15.750 ways to validate it. It's very like, how are you gonna do it? Buy, like, a thousand of these machines? 144 00:10:16.149 --> 00:10:20.550 Buy a thousand Dickies and test the random randomness of all of them? Or, 145 00:10:20.950 --> 00:10:22.070 you know, like, how 146 00:10:22.425 --> 00:10:24.905 how is an individual supposed to do that validation? 147 00:10:25.145 --> 00:10:26.585 And so like this conversation, 148 00:10:27.385 --> 00:10:28.185 much as I 149 00:10:29.385 --> 00:10:30.425 hate to validate 150 00:10:31.625 --> 00:10:33.385 guys like JW, 151 00:10:35.065 --> 00:10:35.625 but 152 00:10:36.370 --> 00:10:43.250 the more I have this conversation on like, how do I

have to validate the randomness of a wallet generated 153 00:10:44.690 --> 00:10:45.970 seed phrase? Right. 154 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:50.210 It's just defaults me to like, just go have Bitcoin core do it. 155 00:10:51.715 --> 00:10:54.915 Yes. I I think that's like the 156 00:10:55.235 --> 00:11:09.380 I use Bitcoin Core wallet all the time. Like, I am a big fan, and it is objectively true that the one with the most peer review is Bitcoin Core. It doesn't mean Bitcoin Core is perfect, 157 00:11:10.420 --> 00:11:12.660 but the idea of 158 00:11:13.940 --> 00:11:14.740 the 159 00:11:15.540 --> 00:11:23.964 looking at the code base has the most eyes and to be like, there's multiple layers of where the testing the pieces go in. Because it's interesting, like how the repositories work. 160 00:11:24.285 --> 00:11:26.925 SecP is not part of the Bitcoin org. 161 00:11:27.005 --> 00:11:31.005 It's a Bitcoin core org that then loads in the libsecP library. Right? 162 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:33.910 The 163 00:11:34.630 --> 00:11:38.149 the the whole conversation around that is just around usability. 164 00:11:38.470 --> 00:11:40.070 It's it's user experience, 165 00:11:40.310 --> 00:11:40.790 and, 166 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:46.949 I would even go far enough to say that you should have in theory, you should have 167 00:11:47.395 --> 00:11:53.635 Bitcoin Core entry as part of it. But even that, I like, from a risk distribution standpoint, you're still putting all your eggs in one basket. 168 00:11:56.675 --> 00:12:03.730 Yeah. I the way I the way I think about it is I I mean, I'm starting to think that a person should just have their brains understand 169 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:05.730 how Bitcoin corn makes keys. 170 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:08.690 So, like, at the very I don't think most people have done that work, 171 00:12:09.010 --> 00:12:16.130 John. Yeah. And and and, like, and and if you didn't go to if you didn't go to the basement and, like, go look at all and check it, then you're still 172 00:12:16.725 --> 00:12:18.085 trusting, not verifying. 173 00:12:19.605 --> 00:12:26.725 Yeah. That's right. Because I just the the you're never gonna kill you're never gonna have case closed that, like, you're really good with 174 00:12:27.525 --> 00:12:29.125 everything you set up 175 00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:38.100 for, you know, for your There's always there will always be trailing risks, and your job is to mitigate those trailing risks as much as possible. 176 00:12:38.980 --> 00:12:50.185 Yes. And so I while I think the I think the best ADIQ solution is rolling your own dice, I really do. I don't think that using Bitcoin Core is the best ADIQ 177 00:12:50.185 --> 00:12:51.945 solution. I think that is a 178 00:12:52.425 --> 00:12:54.505 I think that is actually a smarter 179 00:12:54.825 --> 00:12:56.825 it's a smarter solution. Yeah. 180 00:12:56.825 --> 00:12:57.865 The it is. 181 00:12:58.820 --> 00:13:01.620 Like, I think properly air gapping 182 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:05.300 Bitcoin Core. Right? Like, I wouldn't load 183 00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:15.665 I wouldn't use Bitcoin Core on my computer right now and generate keys and have that be what I use to secure my life savings. Right? Like, I also wouldn't be buying reused hardware. 184 00:13:16.464 --> 00:13:20.065 Right? And the there's one thing I think Bitcoin Core 185 00:13:20.625 --> 00:13:22.545 at least should have the option of, 186 00:13:23.024 --> 00:13:25.505 and it should just let you add your own Entropy 187 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:30.440 as an additional input to be XORed in on top of everything else. Right? 188 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.519 Like, it just should, 189 00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:43.545 you should just be able to, in addition to everything else, add a little bit more because the way we talked about this on the Entropy episode two podcasts or last podcast, like, to XOR in 190 00:13:43.625 --> 00:13:44.665 Entropy 191 00:13:44.985 --> 00:13:49.305 at worst retains the same level of Entropy you currently already had. 192 00:13:49.625 --> 00:13:53.065 So it is a it is something that does not have downsides 193 00:13:53.305 --> 00:13:57.305 if implemented correctly, right, to add additional Entropy. So It doesn't reduce 194 00:13:57.610 --> 00:13:58.490 entry. 195 00:13:58.810 --> 00:13:59.530 Yeah. 196 00:13:59.610 --> 00:14:00.650 Right? Yes. 197 00:14:03.930 --> 00:14:12.250 I I so look. The the case should never be closed. I don't think you could ever say, oh, I'm really, really good with this. But I do think that if you 198 00:14:13.205 --> 00:14:14.485 roll your own dice 199 00:14:15.445 --> 00:14:17.845 and you understand at least 200 00:14:18.245 --> 00:14:23.125 the log six divided by the log two and you understand why 201 00:14:23.845 --> 00:14:29.070 rolling at least a 100 times and maybe, you know Mhmm. If you're if you're worried about your 202 00:14:29.630 --> 00:14:31.150 dice being loaded, 203 00:14:31.550 --> 00:14:37.150 roll, you know, roll them a 120 times or Mhmm. You know, whatever makes you feel comfortable there. 204 00:14:37.630 --> 00:14:40.750 You at least know in your like, if you're, 205 00:14:42.014 --> 00:14:46.735 ten hours away from your seed and you find out that it's totally 206 00:14:46.894 --> 00:14:51.135 that every seed that was made the way your seed was made is being compromised. 207 00:14:51.214 --> 00:14:52.175 Right? 208 00:14:52.254 --> 00:14:53.375 Or at least 209 00:14:53.694 --> 00:14:55.535 being stored on devices 210 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:56.600 that 211 00:14:57.160 --> 00:15:01.000 your seed is being stored on, you can at least go back and 212 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:23.285 it's it's like coded into your soul, I feel like. This is how I felt when I was at Lake Satoshi trying to evaluate whether or not Right. I was screwed or not. I was it was like like, the thing that I did to make the seed was encoded into my soul in a certain way. Like, I could in turn that's what

and it gets internalizing something means. Right? Yes. I don't think you get that 213 00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:25.250 trusting Bitcoin Core, 214 00:15:25.810 --> 00:15:27.890 even though you may get the same quality, 215 00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:31.570 you may get the very same quality. You don't get that internalization. 216 00:15:31.570 --> 00:15:34.530 And I just think the internalization is important to sleeping at night. 217 00:15:35.410 --> 00:15:36.850 It's like that's 218 00:15:37.085 --> 00:15:40.365 maybe it's important to getting to the next stage of validating. 219 00:15:41.725 --> 00:15:45.485 Like, don't move ahead in the video game of validating 220 00:15:45.725 --> 00:15:48.205 unless you internalize these things. Right. 221 00:15:49.420 --> 00:15:53.900 I think that's fair. Yeah. That's the you know? So all that that's 222 00:15:53.980 --> 00:15:55.820 aside stuff, but 223 00:15:56.380 --> 00:16:03.500 Mhmm. You know, I think it's good. So why not do both? I guess that's that's really where I so where I end up is why not do both? And then like 224 00:16:04.925 --> 00:16:08.525 if a comp when you find out that a company like Block is 225 00:16:09.005 --> 00:16:12.525 doing all the putting all this energy, we'll just say, into 226 00:16:13.565 --> 00:16:14.285 the 227 00:16:14.525 --> 00:16:17.565 version of this that you're probably you may not even do. 228 00:16:17.885 --> 00:16:18.125 Right? 229 00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:19.540 Well, 230 00:16:20.660 --> 00:16:27.300 it's probably useful to go to the GitHub and take a look. Like, it's probably useful. One. It's nice. Yeah. Nice. 231 00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:48.400 Ask the question of Rob. Like, why would you ever spend? What like, what's the point of a I think it's really valuable to say what's the point of a chi square test? And I don't know that we were gonna do that here, but, like, you know, what's the point of rolling a die a thousand times? What's the point of all that? And it's all again, it's like we don't have anybody at the Bitcoin store to go to 232 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:50.080 to ask if we're good. 233 00:16:50.640 --> 00:16:56.640 Right? Like to say, hey, are we good against you know, in the insurance game, right? There's 234 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.800 this concept of like named risks. 235 00:16:59.705 --> 00:17:01.785 And then there's this concept of all 236 00:17:02.585 --> 00:17:04.185 risk, all of which And must be 237 00:17:06.425 --> 00:17:09.865 in the case of protecting your seed, you're in the game of all risks, 238 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.279 whether or not they even exist today or not. 239 00:17:15.600 --> 00:17:18.239 Right? There's risks you're gonna find yourself 240 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.960 existing in five years, then you're not gonna find out until it happened. 241 00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:33.085 Right? And so that's the bar. The bar here is the bear, not, you know, the, you know, the saying, you don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun the other guy. Yep. 242 00:17:33.565 --> 00:17:35.325 The bar here is the bear. 243 00:17:35.645 --> 00:17:40.445 Right. Right? Really. When you said when you determine your seed, the bar is the bear. 244 00:17:41.620 --> 00:17:42.259 And 245 00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:46.899 whether or not that happens in a year or five years 246 00:17:47.300 --> 00:17:49.779 is based on the other guy. Okay. 247 00:17:50.500 --> 00:18:07.615 So like we Well, this is I think part of this too is good. Just goes to the fact that like, it's the same thing like security. And I've been using this metaphor that like all of the red team in the security stuff is not like Norton antivirus scan where you like hit the button and it says you're clean. You're like, oh, I guess I'm done. Like, I'll check back in a month. Like 248 00:18:08.370 --> 00:18:12.930 risk and security in the same spectrum of like, you can never there's a there's a bad asymmetry 249 00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:13.650 in cybersecurity 250 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:15.809 where with AI, 251 00:18:16.130 --> 00:18:17.330 the attackers 252 00:18:17.890 --> 00:18:19.330 are able to move faster 253 00:18:19.745 --> 00:18:20.545 because 254 00:18:21.345 --> 00:18:22.945 attacks are verifiably 255 00:18:22.945 --> 00:18:23.905 executable. 256 00:18:23.905 --> 00:18:28.304 Whereas defense, you can't, like, have a verification function that my code has no bugs. 257 00:18:30.065 --> 00:18:34.545 And so you just have this, like, to your point, like, you'll you can find out shit's fucked, 258 00:18:35.470 --> 00:18:42.429 but you're never gonna be able to, like, provably say, like, oh, no. I'm good. Right? You'll just have asymptotically lower and lower and lower amounts of risk. 259 00:18:43.149 --> 00:18:43.950 But 260 00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:46.669 in a case of entropy, I think you probably can. 261 00:18:47.835 --> 00:18:49.754 I think in a case of entropy, 262 00:18:50.154 --> 00:18:50.874 you can, 263 00:18:52.875 --> 00:18:57.514 what you were what you were able to do is I would say with a physical form, 264 00:18:57.835 --> 00:19:04.559 physically that I did a random physical thing and that encodes to a some set of entropy. To go to, like, the Bitcoin Core example, 265 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:09.520 like, if I were doing Bitcoin Core, like, as my my my policy strategy, 266 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:21.044 I would have more than one cold computer. This is kinda what I'm getting at. Like, I would I would walk into a Best Buy with cash, and I would buy a random computer. And then I would buy 267 00:19:21.445 --> 00:19:32.645 like, I would use my Mac for one of them. Like, would turn it offline and, like, reboot it and, like, like, offline entirely. And then I would do another one that would, like and I would do multiple computers because the the way the Entropy works for 268 00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:38.880 Bitcoin Core is it pulls it in from, like, four different sources and one of them being, like, the operating

system entropy. 269 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.639 Bitcoin generates its own entropy. Like, there's actually a really great tweet, 270 00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:44.800 which I I reference. And 271 00:19:45.855 --> 00:19:47.534 if you know Raw Avocado 272 00:19:48.175 --> 00:19:54.495 Yep. Hell yeah. Yeah. Alex Walls. He get him on the show. Oh, he would love he would just do that for, like, hours. 273 00:19:55.055 --> 00:20:01.730 Right. He would he would he would just be going off for hours, but he has a really nice, like, page where he just talks about 274 00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:06.850 the like, he wrote it down on a piece of paper and, like, 275 00:20:08.530 --> 00:20:11.170 and color coded. I'm pulling it up now. Core Entropy. 276 00:20:11.330 --> 00:20:17.345 He does a really good I Did we talk about this last episode? I think we did. Yeah. I'll 277 00:20:17.345 --> 00:20:18.784 just call it right here. So he called 278 00:20:19.505 --> 00:20:21.825 There's the proc random that gets stuff 279 00:20:23.105 --> 00:20:25.345 from the script. And then there's 280 00:20:25.345 --> 00:20:29.520 four sections. One of them or is it five? One, two, three, four, 281 00:20:29.840 --> 00:20:33.360 four. There's four colors that he has here. So one of them are like system processes, 282 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:48.605 low level entropy processor instructions from the CPU. One low level, like, entropy from the operating system, dynamic events and static events from your computer session. Right? And like this, I've been looking to this. This came all in version 13 of Bitcoin 0.13 283 00:20:48.605 --> 00:20:49.565 2016, 284 00:20:49.805 --> 00:21:00.919 which was when we've entirely regutted the the structure of the wallet to do what are called bit 32 hierarchical deterministic quality with an x prim and x pub. Before then it was a JBOD wallet, which is just a bunch of keys. 285 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.799 And it had different ways of doing it before then. But like, 286 00:21:05.159 --> 00:21:06.840 if you have Bitcoin from 287 00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:10.200 version 13, I think you're 288 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.745 in a very good risk minimized spot for sure. 289 00:21:13.865 --> 00:21:15.945 Yeah. And so I guess what we're saying is, 290 00:21:16.425 --> 00:21:18.825 at least what I'm saying is that 291 00:21:19.705 --> 00:21:22.105 if there's probably a trustworthy 292 00:21:23.465 --> 00:21:27.705 version of a random number generator, it's probably Bitcoin Core because 293 00:21:27.300 --> 00:21:28.500 of the evidence, 294 00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:30.900 the eyes, the evidence 295 00:21:31.060 --> 00:21:32.820 and the resilience it's shown. 296 00:21:33.300 --> 00:21:37.540 Except I would just say that stops short of, I think a bar 297 00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:41.060 that is needed for this type of validation, is 298 00:21:41.554 --> 00:21:42.754 internalizing 299 00:21:44.355 --> 00:21:46.994 it. And I don't know. So like I just don't, 300 00:21:47.554 --> 00:21:48.595 it's not that 301 00:21:50.755 --> 00:21:59.929 you don't trust because it's not trustworthy because it is trustworthy. And sometimes we will, There are times when we have to default into something that is trustworthy probably. 302 00:22:00.570 --> 00:22:02.570 But this for your entropy, 303 00:22:02.890 --> 00:22:08.490 it's not necessary because you can do it yourself. That's my point. And so when you don't when you can do it yourself, 304 00:22:08.970 --> 00:22:10.090 but with rolling dice, 305 00:22:10.625 --> 00:22:14.144 which I still say that's the ADIQ solution. 306 00:22:14.705 --> 00:22:16.464 I agree. Literally, 307 00:22:16.465 --> 00:22:21.824 any anybody can roll dice and convert you know, then you just convert that into 308 00:22:22.384 --> 00:22:22.784 your 309 00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:33.919 seed. Okay. That's the key. That's the thing you have to learn how to do. Okay. People there but, you know, if you're gonna trust something, trust we'll say there's program 310 00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:35.919 that have been validated. 311 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:43.374 Mhmm. And come to come to the bit devs I'm starting. We're gonna talk about this. And we're Oh, yeah. So if you can understand 312 00:22:44.015 --> 00:22:57.389 okay. Duh. Anyone can roll their own dice. Right? Now can you do the one small step is of converting that into your key? Then you're good. And then it's internalized. You don't have to trust Bitcoin Core, which I think anyone really ever wants to have to do. 313 00:22:58.190 --> 00:22:58.589 You 314 00:22:59.230 --> 00:23:04.429 shouldn't have to trust one thing. You can. Okay, if you it's like a 20 IQ solution, I guess. 315 00:23:05.305 --> 00:23:06.585 But, like, it's more of like 316 00:23:07.465 --> 00:23:18.025 it's the way I think of the Bitcoin core solution is you have to be you have do a lot more work to validate it. You have to do your chi square tests. You have to do all of you you know, you now have to do all these tests 317 00:23:18.570 --> 00:23:20.489 to make sure it's truly random. 318 00:23:20.809 --> 00:23:26.809 Whereas if you just roll your own dice, you know, and so You know, actually sick. A really cool open source 319 00:23:28.409 --> 00:23:38.465 software that should be built is basically a wrapper on top of Bitcoin Core. So it doesn't modify any Bitcoin Core, but you run on top of it and you can start running chi squareds on the entropy poles that Bitcoin Core does. 320 00:23:39.105 --> 00:23:41.904 Yeah. It'd be pretty Like, that would be sick. Like, that would be sick. 321 00:23:42.145 --> 00:23:49.049 You you you could you could go to the bath store and explicitly prove to yourself that, like, the box that you're about to generate keys on has random distribution. 322 00:23:49.529 --> 00:23:50.330 Discussion. 323 00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:51.450 So 324 00:23:51.850 --> 00:23:57.529 Yeah. Yeah. There's there's two things going on in pop culture, and I think they're both k fabe. 325

00:23:58.169 --> 00:24:07.715 Okay. But and and they're both rage bait. Like, they both rage baited me into waking up this morning and wanting to, you know, really been been thinking about this for a couple of weeks. 326 00:24:08.195 --> 00:24:08.835 Yeah. 327 00:24:09.475 --> 00:24:11.715 Alright. So let's hit the first one, which is this 328 00:24:12.195 --> 00:24:17.169 if we were like a professional podcast, we would we would subject you to this clip. 329 00:24:17.730 --> 00:24:23.249 That's right. In its entirety, but it's the the Tucker Carlson and some fucking dick nose. 330 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:26.129 I 331 00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:33.674 don't even know who it is. I don't know who they are, but it's like it's like they were they exist strictly to rage bait me 332 00:24:33.915 --> 00:24:34.875 and us. 333 00:24:35.595 --> 00:24:36.795 And this conversation 334 00:24:37.035 --> 00:24:41.515 this is the conversation that Tucker Carlson was having with some guy about 335 00:24:42.289 --> 00:24:44.529 why are there letters in algebra? 336 00:24:44.530 --> 00:24:45.009 And 337 00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:55.970 basically his answer, his actual answer is because it's just to fuck with you. It's totally not needed. I don't know a single person who even uses algebra. I don't know. I created 338 00:24:56.445 --> 00:24:59.724 he went on to say that in college 339 00:25:00.284 --> 00:25:02.044 he was able to, 340 00:25:02.684 --> 00:25:04.445 because he was able to 341 00:25:05.884 --> 00:25:08.124 drink with his advisor, 342 00:25:08.125 --> 00:25:09.404 he was able to bypass 343 00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:15.140 get having to take any math classes. Oh, he said he took something called finite math, which I think is interesting. 344 00:25:15.860 --> 00:25:16.500 Sure. 345 00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:21.700 So okay. Good. So he was able to take like discrete math essentially 346 00:25:21.700 --> 00:25:23.380 and only deal with whole numbers. 347 00:25:24.365 --> 00:25:25.005 And 348 00:25:26.205 --> 00:25:31.965 I don't know what he you know, he was an art student. So I guess that makes sense as to why 349 00:25:32.525 --> 00:25:39.165 Yeah. They let him take those classes and all that. And we know that college math system is all fucked anyway, but, like, this this so 350 00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:45.580 Tucker sat there and said, oh, yeah. Everything he basically is like, yeah. I have no pushback for anything 351 00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:54.025 you're saying here. I mean, the you know, this is a guy that didn't let Sam Altman get away with even trying to, like, slough off 352 00:25:54.745 --> 00:25:57.225 a whistleblower that was murdered. 353 00:25:57.465 --> 00:26:04.505 Mhmm. And Tucker Carlson, I'll say, you know, he clearly has the ability to push back when he wants to. Sure. 354 00:26:04.745 --> 00:26:06.345 He did not do that here. 355 00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:31.764 I don't And think he was ill equipped to even have the conversation. He didn't wanna look silly. I think, you know, I think this is one of those things where you ever get gaslit so hard that you're like, you're like paralyzed in the moment. You actually don't even know what to do. It's so fun. For me, I just enjoyed listening. I'm like, keep go off king. Like, I wanna hear more of this craziness. Like, this is great. Like, like, when someone goes off in a schizo land, I just become like, I'm locked in. Let's do it. Yeah. 356 00:26:32.165 --> 00:26:41.340 Math is fake. Let's let's talk about it. As a podcaster, I've never had this situation where I've like somebody saying something so like 357 00:26:41.740 --> 00:26:47.019 fucked up that I just sat sit and enjoy it. That's never happened. Although, 358 00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:58.674 I hope to be on that level one day where I'm just So I can't even relate. I don't even know if I can relate to Duggar Carlson and to say, oh, he was wrong or anything. I think that this thing was so 359 00:26:59.715 --> 00:27:00.195 I 360 00:27:00.755 --> 00:27:05.720 feel like he just sat there so gaslit and didn't know what even to make of it to respond. 361 00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:14.679 Mhmm. Other than to say, I live in a fake world, so I don't know any of what I can't even begin to opine on what you're saying. Right. 362 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.039 But back to since this is verbal. 363 00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:21.715 Right? So back to the point of this idea 364 00:27:22.035 --> 00:27:22.515 of, 365 00:27:23.155 --> 00:27:23.794 math. 366 00:27:24.835 --> 00:27:26.115 Why are there letters? 367 00:27:26.515 --> 00:27:37.350 And by the way, I hate the fact that he used the word letters. So, like, my autistic brain is like, no. They're symbols. Symbols. They're not letters. Letters are no different You're not pronouncing them. You're not pronouncing them. 368 00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:39.110 Yeah. They're 369 00:27:39.110 --> 00:27:39.590 not 370 00:27:40.790 --> 00:27:42.230 yeah. They're symbols. 371 00:27:42.710 --> 00:27:47.075 So just for the record, right? Why do we use symbols in algebra? 372 00:27:47.235 --> 00:27:49.234 Okay. So there's 373 00:27:49.635 --> 00:27:51.874 different letters for different symbols. So, 374 00:27:52.115 --> 00:27:59.554 okay, we have what is known as X, Y, and Z, right? You'll see X, Y, and Z. Those are called indeterminate. 375 00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:02.099 This is all Descartes. 376 00:28:02.659 --> 00:28:04.659 Descartes determined this construct 377 00:28:05.299 --> 00:28:07.059 and this is the way. Fake by the way. 378 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:08.179 Fake. Yeah, 379 00:28:08.580 --> 00:28:09.539 Descartes fake. 380 00:28:10.419 --> 00:28:11.460 Descartes. He's letters. 381 00:28:12.805 --> 00:28:13.765 It's all fake. 382 00:28:15.125 --> 00:28:15.765 Is 383 00:28:16.645 --> 00:28:17.045 definitely. 384 00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:26.260 So XYZ 385 00:28:26.260 --> 00:28:30.100 would be the letters to determine what you call indeterminants. 386 00:28:33.620 -->

00:28:35.220 I mean they could be anything, 387 00:28:35.540 --> 00:28:42.864 right? This is the essence of algebra, right? Essence of algebra is that they could be they could be anything 388 00:28:42.945 --> 00:28:45.184 and but then we have these other letters, 389 00:28:45.345 --> 00:28:55.184 a b c, that you might see. Mhmm. If you wonder, okay. Well, what's the difference between a b c and x y z? Why are they used differently? And a b c are meant to be 390 00:28:56.140 --> 00:29:06.299 what's called scalars or constants. Mhmm. So, like, we're not we're still not gonna define what number it is. We're just gonna tell you that it's not gonna change. It's not meant to vary. 391 00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:09.100 Mhmm. Okay? It's predetermined, 392 00:29:09.100 --> 00:29:10.059 not meant to vary. 393 00:29:10.565 --> 00:29:12.565 So when we see a line 394 00:29:12.725 --> 00:29:13.924 like ax 395 00:29:14.485 --> 00:29:20.245 plus b y equals c, that is Mhmm. That is the equation that determines a line. 396 00:29:21.765 --> 00:29:23.684 Or, hey. How about an elliptic curve? 397 00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:26.169 Y squared equals 398 00:29:26.570 --> 00:29:29.450 ax cubed plus b x squared 399 00:29:30.169 --> 00:29:31.529 plus c x 400 00:29:31.850 --> 00:29:32.970 plus d. 401 00:29:33.610 --> 00:29:37.355 Okay. Right? The a b c's and d's are constants. 402 00:29:37.355 --> 00:29:40.474 And so with Bitcoin's elliptic curve, right, 403 00:29:41.514 --> 00:29:43.274 is y squared equals 404 00:29:44.554 --> 00:29:46.874 x cubed plus seven. 405 00:29:47.115 --> 00:29:49.755 Mhmm. So a equals one, 406 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:51.600 never changes. 407 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:54.160 Yep. And b equals 408 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:54.799 zero, 409 00:29:56.560 --> 00:29:58.400 c equals zero, 410 00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:01.520 and d equals seven. 411 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.120 Mhmm. 412 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:04.960 This 413 00:30:05.280 --> 00:30:05.760 is the 414 00:30:06.424 --> 00:30:10.345 top level, not the wire stress level, which already 415 00:30:11.225 --> 00:30:12.264 was already, 416 00:30:12.745 --> 00:30:15.225 you know, made constants out of some of those 417 00:30:15.785 --> 00:30:17.784 or zeroed out some of those constants. 418 00:30:17.865 --> 00:30:22.590 Yeah. This this is just so the a, b, c's, d's are predetermined. 419 00:30:22.910 --> 00:30:23.630 K? 420 00:30:23.870 --> 00:30:25.549 Yes. But the x cubed, 421 00:30:27.230 --> 00:30:28.029 that's 422 00:30:28.270 --> 00:30:31.150 we're saying that's where the two 423 00:30:31.875 --> 00:30:33.235 Oh, 424 00:30:36.995 --> 00:30:37.554 no. 425 00:30:37.955 --> 00:30:44.515 They're they're coming after him. He found the truth. He found the truth about math being fake, and now they're coming after him. 426 00:30:46.690 --> 00:30:47.970 Do what you gotta do. 427 00:30:48.450 --> 00:30:49.730 Do what you gotta do. 428 00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:55.730 Hey. 429 00:30:58.625 --> 00:31:03.505 Alright. We're

back. Part two. This is the most technically challenging probably episode we'll 430 00:31:03.585 --> 00:31:08.145 have had to do. And you know what? It's fine because the world does not want us discussing 431 00:31:08.625 --> 00:31:09.825 these two topics. 432 00:31:10.225 --> 00:31:15.610 So whatever. This Tucker interview, I don't know. I hope we captured it from the last from the last call. Yeah. 433 00:31:16.810 --> 00:31:20.650 Maybe let me jump off because you were going like, my thoughts on this is that Yes. 434 00:31:20.970 --> 00:31:21.610 The 435 00:31:23.690 --> 00:31:32.554 there is a nugget there. And the nugget is most people throughout life don't handle any level of abstraction in their thinking so they never have to think about symbols 436 00:31:32.795 --> 00:31:37.115 and they offload all symbol mathematical higher order thinking 437 00:31:37.355 --> 00:31:38.315 into 438 00:31:38.715 --> 00:31:39.355 technology 439 00:31:40.670 --> 00:31:42.590 Because like for sure 440 00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:45.070 when you're 441 00:31:45.310 --> 00:31:50.030 you know like engineers that are designing cars are thinking about physics and thermodynamics 442 00:31:50.030 --> 00:31:53.565 which require multiple points of abstractions in multidimensional 443 00:31:53.565 --> 00:31:59.565 space, and they're using these equations. But, like, you personally driving the car are not thinking about that. Right? 444 00:32:01.085 --> 00:32:17.059 I think it's also fair to say that, like, the median American going through their life isn't thinking about multiple levels of abstractions when it thinks like, when you think about the complexities of the financial system. Right? Or in, like like I said, driving to work. Right? And so 445 00:32:17.539 --> 00:32:29.804 it's like pop it's like mathematical populism, the idea that, like, this is all fake and gay, but they're all gonna use technology that's used by people. And, like, all these people are using AI now, and you wanna see how many fucking symbols are in linear algebra? 446 00:32:30.525 --> 00:32:35.805 You know you know what I'm telling me? Like, you're gonna tell me that, like, like, the this stuff is Use a calculator. 447 00:32:36.450 --> 00:32:37.330 I mean, can't 448 00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:38.849 yeah. Again, 449 00:32:39.809 --> 00:32:41.090 I don't wanna overblow 450 00:32:41.169 --> 00:32:42.609 this. I wanna just 451 00:32:42.929 --> 00:32:47.169 use this as a way to maybe get our thoughts out here. But 452 00:32:51.205 --> 00:32:58.085 you know, the there's an important there's one there's an important thing in what you said, which is when you say people don't think in terms of abstraction. 453 00:32:58.085 --> 00:33:03.125 Right? What that means is if you're if you're stuck in the matrix, you're not getting 454 00:33:03.540 --> 00:33:09.620 If you can't abstract your the only because the only way out of the matrix is to abstract your way Totally. 455 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:11.780 And, 456 00:33:12.100 --> 00:33:13.380 you know, it's like 457 00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:15.620 even if you're a 458 00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:18.020 a Bitcoin user 459 00:33:18.865 --> 00:33:20.304 and you really 460 00:33:20.465 --> 00:33:22.225 got yourself to understand 461 00:33:22.625 --> 00:33:27.024 the elliptic curve x cubed plus set y squared equals x cubed plus seven, 462 00:33:28.785 --> 00:33:30.304 you're fine if that never changes. 463 00:33:31.649 --> 00:33:34.129 But if that ever is going to change, 464 00:33:34.610 --> 00:33:37.969 what is what good is the work you did in understanding 465 00:33:37.970 --> 00:33:38.929 the curve? 466 00:33:39.330 --> 00:33:43.250 What good is it if it's going to change and you have you can't see it 467 00:33:45.215 --> 00:33:47.854 at any level of abstraction other than what it is. 468 00:33:48.735 --> 00:33:49.534 When 469 00:33:51.775 --> 00:33:54.975 we start having a conversation of say using a different curve, 470 00:33:55.630 --> 00:33:57.230 right? And people 471 00:33:57.230 --> 00:33:58.830 start making claims 472 00:33:59.309 --> 00:34:00.029 about 473 00:34:00.510 --> 00:34:02.030 what's equivalent 474 00:34:02.030 --> 00:34:03.309 and what's not. 475 00:34:03.630 --> 00:34:10.845 What good is that work that you did gonna be if it was not at an abstract level outside of 476 00:34:11.245 --> 00:34:12.125 this curve? 477 00:34:13.245 --> 00:34:16.525 It wasn't something more general than this thing? 478 00:34:16.685 --> 00:34:17.485 It's like, 479 00:34:18.925 --> 00:34:23.980 know, maybe you have a program, maybe you coded something when you were a kid to say 480 00:34:24.700 --> 00:34:28.300 this, I've coded something to work for me. I'm three feet tall. 481 00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:37.340 And this is gonna do everything I need to do for myself in my life. Then all of a sudden you grow six inches and the thing you coded doesn't work anymore. 482 00:34:43.795 --> 00:34:44.835 You know, like, 483 00:34:45.955 --> 00:34:52.835 this is all kind of unnecessary, right? But it's just like you don't want to get caught up in and say I don't need to know. 484 00:34:55.690 --> 00:35:04.010 Don't need to generalize things because I'm happy where I am. I'm happy with the system I live in. To your point about like, you have to abstract to get out the matrix. 485 00:35:04.490 --> 00:35:08.330 As the world changes around you, if you shut off the entire world of mathematical thinking, 486 00:35:09.225 --> 00:35:15.705 then you are necessarily locked in rails and unable to reason new models to be able to change 487 00:35:15.865 --> 00:35:20.665 your perspective based on the situation. You're just shutting off an entire line of just like you're 488 00:35:21.385 --> 00:35:22.425 not you're 489 00:35:22.425 --> 00:35:28.570 basically turning off the toolkit. Like, you're you're you're throwing out the toolkit, and you're like, I'm just gonna, like, remodel my house with my bare hands. 490 00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:31.050

And what's wrong with that? 491 00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:41.465 You're allowed to. What's up? I mean You're allowed to, but I guess the thing that I think was so galling about this discussion was that it was sort of, like, presented as some type of intellectual achievement. 492 00:35:41.944 --> 00:35:42.665 Yep. 493 00:35:42.984 --> 00:35:44.985 Right? It's like this 494 00:35:45.545 --> 00:35:49.464 is like the you know, this was presented as some type of vanguard of thinking 495 00:35:50.349 --> 00:35:50.910 that, 496 00:35:51.150 --> 00:35:55.790 hey, man. Have you ever noticed that we don't need any of that shit? You know? Right. 497 00:35:56.750 --> 00:35:59.550 You really think about it? I think about it deeply. 498 00:36:00.109 --> 00:36:00.510 Right. 499 00:36:02.675 --> 00:36:04.755 And 500 00:36:04.755 --> 00:36:05.555 it's, 501 00:36:06.675 --> 00:36:10.835 you know, I don't know. I think there's a lot of people maybe 502 00:36:11.155 --> 00:36:13.235 that confuse this for 503 00:36:13.395 --> 00:36:14.355 good thinking, 504 00:36:14.835 --> 00:36:15.795 radical thinking. 505 00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:23.880 And they're gonna get this is a way to one shot people off of basically off of the 506 00:36:25.160 --> 00:36:26.120 escalator. 507 00:36:26.520 --> 00:36:27.880 Totally. Matrix. Right? 508 00:36:29.255 --> 00:36:30.135 Totally. 509 00:36:30.215 --> 00:36:36.295 Maybe that's why I'm so upset about it. It's not about the math thing. It's just it's just about like, god, you know, 510 00:36:36.855 --> 00:36:39.575 bad thinking. Bad thinking calls me really badly. 511 00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.100 Oh, man. 512 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:51.220 Yeah. I mean, that was I I it's funny because the time between we saw that and this podcast has been a couple of days, but 513 00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:58.675 I also feel like it's like, it it was just K fame to get engagement on the podcast. It's like that tweet that that that 97 514 00:36:58.675 --> 00:37:00.035 clip went around everywhere. 515 00:37:00.675 --> 00:37:05.475 It's just not serious though. You get on a plane, you get on you you drive a car, you use a computer, 516 00:37:05.955 --> 00:37:13.330 you like, you're using all of these, like, things. And just because someone packages it up to you in a really clean abstract way doesn't mean that doesn't exist. 517 00:37:15.490 --> 00:37:16.130 Yeah, 518 00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:18.850 totally successful kfabe, 519 00:37:18.850 --> 00:37:19.890 we'll just say. 520 00:37:21.330 --> 00:37:21.730 That's right. 521 00:37:22.434 --> 00:37:26.435 You know, I think us calling, you know, just calling attention to it. So 522 00:37:28.434 --> 00:37:32.035 I'm not even sure if we're even gonna air any of this because some the 523 00:37:32.434 --> 00:37:42.700 first twenty minutes, I don't know. It's we're gonna figure it out. We'll figure it out. By the time I my clanker who puts this episode together, everyone will have forgotten about all this. But regardless, 524 00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:46.860 let's talk about the other one. I think that that's 525 00:37:47.020 --> 00:37:48.780 that's the one I really wanted to hit because 526 00:37:49.825 --> 00:37:50.865 this is now 527 00:37:51.905 --> 00:37:53.825 it's wild. It's 528 00:37:53.825 --> 00:37:57.905 wild that dinner party conversation is now like basically, 529 00:37:57.905 --> 00:37:58.465 mathematics 530 00:37:59.025 --> 00:38:01.105 is now part of dinner party conversation. 531 00:38:03.180 --> 00:38:08.220 Did you know that artificial intelligence is now, you know, solved 532 00:38:09.339 --> 00:38:11.580 a major unsolvable, 533 00:38:11.660 --> 00:38:13.580 previously unsolvable problem? 534 00:38:14.540 --> 00:38:18.460 And this thing goes deep, like the k fave here. This was like 535 00:38:19.255 --> 00:38:20.455 really successful 536 00:38:20.695 --> 00:38:21.495 because 537 00:38:21.575 --> 00:38:22.855 it enraged 538 00:38:22.855 --> 00:38:23.815 mathematic. 539 00:38:23.815 --> 00:38:37.000 It can raise the entire mathematics community. Navier Stokes. You know, Navier Stokes. No. Do you? No. You know, but, everyone's talking about it. Yeah. Oh, we solved Navier Stokes. This is, you know, the crowning achievement in AI. 540 00:38:37.560 --> 00:38:39.880 The entire math community is completely 541 00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:44.520 just distraught distraught 542 00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:46.865 over this, But it's really because, 543 00:38:47.984 --> 00:39:05.750 you know, I'll just say fairly and unfairly. Fairly, there have been a lot of people that have done work on this that AI would not have been able to do what it did had it not been, you know, had it not been for the sole the shoulders Right. It stood atop of. K? Right. And they're upset that now they don't know who to give the prize money to, 544 00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:18.215 and they don't know who's gonna do who's gonna do any work in math anymore if AI is just gonna suck up the prize money. So this is why I have a particular interest in discussing this because I think it's become an incentive issue now. 545 00:39:18.695 --> 00:39:19.255 And 546 00:39:19.575 --> 00:39:20.375 the state 547 00:39:20.855 --> 00:39:24.214 of mathematics is now maybe moving towards 548 00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:28.060 or maybe accelerating 549 00:39:28.060 --> 00:39:29.900 the incentive 550 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:34.220 game theory here. Okay? Which I think is maybe a good thing. Right? 551 00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:35.100 But 552 00:39:36.060 --> 00:39:39.340 but this other thing I wanted to talk about, which is 553 00:39:41.265 --> 00:39:43.665 I don't get I don't like 554 00:39:44.705 --> 00:39:46.705 I don't like where the conversation 555 00:39:47.265 --> 00:39:53.100 the dinner party conversation and the the Overton window is on on this. Meaning, 556 00:39:56.220 --> 00:39:56.780 I 557 00:39:57.500 --> 00:39:59.100 struggle to see why 558 00:39:59.740 --> 00:40:01.420 it's actually relevant 559

00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:03.980 that AI solves a math problem. 560 00:40:06.935 --> 00:40:13.175 And that I think I'm skipping a lot of steps in what I you know, I think I'm skipping steps in my explanation. 561 00:40:13.175 --> 00:40:17.255 I just if I go right to the if I go to the end, I'm asking myself, 562 00:40:17.415 --> 00:40:18.615 so the fuck what? 563 00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:20.930 So what? What changes? 564 00:40:21.010 --> 00:40:26.930 What impact does this actually have on the world? And if I if it does have an impact on the world, it's really bad. 565 00:40:27.329 --> 00:40:29.010 It's bad, which is 566 00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:31.810 no more work gets done on this. 567 00:40:32.904 --> 00:40:37.705 That's the impact. If like if there's any impact, it's like, okay, I guess nobody's curious 568 00:40:38.105 --> 00:40:39.705 to solve this anymore. 569 00:40:40.904 --> 00:40:42.505 So let me 570 00:40:43.865 --> 00:40:46.664 pause before I go because I have another rant loaded on this. 571 00:40:47.870 --> 00:40:49.310 Let me pause for you. 572 00:40:49.710 --> 00:40:50.430 Yeah, 573 00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:51.390 so 574 00:40:52.430 --> 00:40:56.270 it's interesting because I think to your point which is true that 575 00:40:56.430 --> 00:40:57.630 the 576 00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:18.760 AI to be able to move through this was definitely done with the contribution of man, right? With all of AI technology is basically synthesizing the collective works, The computer in of itself doesn't have the ability to do this. It takes all of our unstructured data of our words and papers and all these things and assembles it together. And the method in which they're starting to basically solve these 577 00:41:19.080 --> 00:41:24.280 is the equivalent to like a full brute force. Like this is a loose analogy, 578 00:41:25.560 --> 00:41:26.760 but when 579 00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:28.119 if 580 00:41:28.734 --> 00:41:37.455 quantum computers become real, you basically mass brute force bending the rules of how you would think about constructing these problems and attack it. Right? So they're having these 581 00:41:37.695 --> 00:41:48.250 agent swarms which are like 10,000 agents that are just kind of dispersed, and they're looking at all these things at once, which would be the equivalent of, like, hiring even if it's 10,000 agents, let's just say, like, 582 00:41:49.050 --> 00:41:51.210 50 of these is one mathematician 583 00:41:51.290 --> 00:41:56.330 that would be, like, spending their day. But they're since they're computers, they don't sleep. They're just cycling. Right? So you're taking the equivalent of, like, 584 00:41:58.025 --> 00:42:11.305 dozens, if not hundreds of mathematical PhD equivalents that are just attacking this one problem and systematically with perfect information hand off talking to each other and getting this done. And they get to an answer. Right? And it's done via brute force. They're not PhD students. 585 00:42:11.700 --> 00:42:16.260 Sorry. They're not PhD. They're more like Okay. Right? But 586 00:42:16.660 --> 00:42:19.700 that's like the What grad students? Like what do wanna say? Like grad students? 587 00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:21.700 They're more like, we'll just say 588 00:42:24.995 --> 00:42:27.475 very we'll call them really strong 589 00:42:27.635 --> 00:42:28.675 graduate students. 590 00:42:28.915 --> 00:42:33.235 But they haven't done the one thing that would differentiate them, which is do something new. 591 00:42:34.515 --> 00:42:40.260 Got it. But do you think that they're now starting to do new things? Does this not count as doing new things? No. No. 592 00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:41.780 No. I don't. 593 00:42:42.100 --> 00:42:43.140 And why is that? 594 00:42:45.620 --> 00:42:50.500 Don't think you don't think a grad student if they if they prove Navier Stokes would not become get a PhD out of it? 595 00:42:51.365 --> 00:42:56.005 I think they would. But what I'm saying is they would have people they would have had to have 596 00:42:56.645 --> 00:42:58.165 done something that 597 00:42:58.645 --> 00:43:11.930 let's just put it this way. If a computer could do it using linear using a linear combination of what it's already loaded up with, it wasn't new. That's my because that's the point. So, like, there there's a lot of this there's I think there's years of low hanging fruit 598 00:43:12.090 --> 00:43:12.810 where 599 00:43:14.410 --> 00:43:17.690 computers are gonna accelerate what human beings could have done. 600 00:43:17.850 --> 00:43:18.250 So 601 00:43:19.465 --> 00:43:31.305 I didn't mean to interrupt you with that. I just but that was like the real point there. Right? Got it. Got it. Well, I would say the other interesting thing related to all of this is this like world of formalization of proofs. 602 00:43:31.705 --> 00:43:37.690 And it actually goes back folded nicely from the earlier part of the conversation talking about you don't have mathematical 603 00:43:37.690 --> 00:43:38.890 certainty of defense. 604 00:43:40.090 --> 00:43:45.930 This is a new emerging thing in cybersecurity and computer science with can you formally verify computer programs? 605 00:43:46.835 --> 00:43:55.635 And if you could formally verify the execution of code, are you able to in a way get a higher bound of certainty of the security of the software that you're running? 606 00:43:56.115 --> 00:44:06.030 And I actually was asked I asked this. I on Tuesday this week, I recorded HellMoney podcast with Casey and Aaron. And I mentioned this, and I'll give you everyone a little preview. Casey was like, fuck no. 607 00:44:06.270 --> 00:44:10.670 Because the problem is is you'll statically verify this function or this system, 608 00:44:10.910 --> 00:44:28.645 but you're never gonna be able to get to the entire universe of all of the interoperability and complexity. So you're gonna, like, have this perfect perfect function, but, the processor it's running on is

gonna allow for arbitrary, like, remote code execution, which then fucks your entire thing. Right? Basically, like, the daemons will exist in whatever part of the system you don't formally verify. And because of that, 609 00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:30.500 like, 610 00:44:30.820 --> 00:44:36.660 it's nice. It's maybe better than not having it, but it you can't view it as a panacea and like a complete security solution. 611 00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:40.340 Yeah. So the and that 612 00:44:41.060 --> 00:44:45.335 it's kinda like it's all weaving around the same thing, which is 613 00:44:46.934 --> 00:44:47.895 there's a 614 00:44:49.575 --> 00:44:51.415 math math is for us. 615 00:44:52.775 --> 00:44:55.015 Math is not for the clankers. 616 00:44:55.175 --> 00:44:59.015 And so let me go back and tell you one of the things I I just like. 617 00:45:00.160 --> 00:45:03.040 I spent the last two and a half months with 618 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.920 a textbook called Algebraic Number Theory and Fermat's Last Theorem. 619 00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:10.560 And the reason 620 00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:14.480 I was using this textbook was because of the discovery 621 00:45:15.135 --> 00:45:17.215 I had with Kayla. 622 00:45:17.215 --> 00:45:20.415 And I think we you and we were three of us were talking. 623 00:45:21.055 --> 00:45:26.175 And, know, we went through this whole 12, however many episodes we did on Elliptic curves, 624 00:45:26.655 --> 00:45:27.535 and saying, you know, 625 00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:35.540 we need to in order to validate your private key, we know we know that all the points in the elliptic curve or group. 626 00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:36.980 Right? Yeah. 627 00:45:37.220 --> 00:45:37.860 And 628 00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:40.500 under this operation called point addition. 629 00:45:41.645 --> 00:45:49.965 And we went through this whole thing to show how you could validate your private key if you know the public key and it's actually the only way really is to know 630 00:45:50.205 --> 00:45:59.360 this. It's the only way to validate it is to know this algebraic properties. And then we got to the I got to this point and had this light bulb moment like, shit, somebody has to prove 631 00:46:00.240 --> 00:46:04.240 that those points on the elliptic curve are a group. 632 00:46:04.720 --> 00:46:06.160 Like, how do we do that? 633 00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:07.359 And, 634 00:46:08.645 --> 00:46:11.445 you know, there's no again, there's no Bitcoin store. 635 00:46:11.685 --> 00:46:12.645 And there's no 636 00:46:12.885 --> 00:46:23.204 algebra store either to tell you how to do these things either. Right? So you just have to go. And I found this textbook that chapter 13 was elliptic curves. 637 00:46:24.270 --> 00:46:32.430 And but it was like a real build. It was an abstract algebra build into elliptic curves. So I like had some pretty decent confidence that if I can get through this book, and I can get into 638 00:46:32.670 --> 00:46:34.270 and I can get to this section, 639 00:46:34.750 --> 00:46:40.305 it might show me something, right? It might give me some direction as to how to where 640 00:46:40.625 --> 00:46:41.905 this proof is going to live. 641 00:46:42.465 --> 00:46:45.025 And it turns so like it turns out that, 642 00:46:45.905 --> 00:46:48.145 like what does Fermat's last theorem have to do with any of this? 643 00:46:49.359 --> 00:46:51.040 Fermat's Last Theorem 644 00:46:51.520 --> 00:46:52.400 was, 645 00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.480 you know, three fifty year old problem. It was well known because of how long it took 646 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:02.320 to prove. 647 00:47:03.015 --> 00:47:03.655 Right? 648 00:47:03.815 --> 00:47:04.375 And, 649 00:47:05.815 --> 00:47:07.095 you know, legendarily, 650 00:47:07.095 --> 00:47:17.830 from Matt wrote in those margins, like, Oh, he's like, I didn't I didn't have enough room for the proof, but anyone can do it. So just enough time to I don't have time. Blah blah blah. Here it is. Right? And then he dies, and 651 00:47:18.710 --> 00:47:21.270 no one can do this proof. Right? 652 00:47:21.830 --> 00:47:23.030 The thing so 653 00:47:23.590 --> 00:47:25.910 the question really is what happened 654 00:47:26.310 --> 00:47:31.135 in those three hundred and fifty years? Right? What happened in those three fifty years was we got 655 00:47:32.575 --> 00:47:36.735 we invented new fields of math to solve to try to prove this thing. 656 00:47:37.055 --> 00:47:39.215 We invented algebraic number theory. 657 00:47:40.095 --> 00:47:40.735 We 658 00:47:41.935 --> 00:47:44.494 figured out something called 659 00:47:43.950 --> 00:47:45.310 modular forms, 660 00:47:46.670 --> 00:47:48.430 we got this thing called the 661 00:47:48.990 --> 00:47:51.070 Taniyama Shimura conjecture, 662 00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:56.510 actually more known as Taniyama Shimura Weil conjecture in the context of Fermat's last theorem, 663 00:47:57.575 --> 00:48:02.535 which then connects this idea that if an elliptic curve is a modular form, 664 00:48:03.255 --> 00:48:06.375 this is part of how you know that it's a group. 665 00:48:06.855 --> 00:48:09.494 But also, this is how you get to Fermat's Last Theorem. 666 00:48:10.420 --> 00:48:16.980 And it's a three it was a three hundred and fifty year process that did have prize money associated with it that did have incentives. 667 00:48:17.300 --> 00:48:17.860 But, 668 00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:24.005 you know, people worked and worked and worked and worked on this and ended up with fray elliptic curves and eventually 669 00:48:24.005 --> 00:48:26.245 got to what Andrew Weilz 670 00:48:26.405 --> 00:48:27.925 was able to prove. 671 00:48:28.805 --> 00:48:29.445 And, 672 00:48:30.325 --> 00:48:36.645 you know, you just have to go back in time three hundred and fifty years ago and ask the question, well, what if a clanker just just did it? 673 00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.380 Do we not? Do we not spend the next three fifty years developing 674

00:48:42.380 --> 00:48:43.100 these 675 00:48:43.420 --> 00:48:44.220 fields? 676 00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:47.100 Do we not do that? Are we no longer curious? 677 00:48:48.875 --> 00:48:51.515 You know, that's the first question, right? 678 00:48:54.155 --> 00:49:01.275 If you start shortcutting the journey, I see your point, right? That like, do we stop developing new ways to try and 679 00:49:01.910 --> 00:49:06.310 solve these problems that develop into their own fruitful fields of exploration. 680 00:49:07.030 --> 00:49:11.750 Maybe my counterpoint on that would be we just bump up against the edges of the system sooner 681 00:49:11.830 --> 00:49:16.870 and we figure out new ways to expand and think about thoughts and ideas and probably AIs can be helpful, 682 00:49:17.375 --> 00:49:22.655 contributory to understanding new possible fields of math and this would be like the acceleration argument 683 00:49:22.895 --> 00:49:25.295 that like what took three fifty years, 684 00:49:26.255 --> 00:49:34.450 you know, we're going be able to do quicker now and then like when we bump up against the edges, we're going be able to start figuring those new things where you're like your AI PhD mathematicians 685 00:49:34.450 --> 00:49:36.210 are going be like supercharged 686 00:49:36.290 --> 00:49:45.650 to be able to find those new fields of exploration and get them mapped out. It's not that like we're figuring out all of human knowledge, we're expanding out to the gap of what is available within our current understanding 687 00:49:46.125 --> 00:49:51.885 And then once that's and we're at this like just like in cybersecurity, we're at this inflection this moment because we have 688 00:49:53.005 --> 00:49:55.645 decades in cybersecurity and millennia 689 00:49:55.645 --> 00:49:58.045 in math where we're hitting up against like, 690 00:49:58.770 --> 00:50:05.810 okay, what were things that humans could have figured out and we did not know? And you start bumping around those edges and then when that's all figured out, you start the 691 00:50:05.970 --> 00:50:09.090 PhDs now instead of trying to figure out the gaps in the human knowledge, 692 00:50:09.330 --> 00:50:16.105 like in the sense of we had the answer, just didn't know how to think about it properly being like, okay, what are the new fields of math we need to start thinking about? 693 00:50:18.744 --> 00:50:21.865 Well, yeah, but how do you know how do you know that? 694 00:50:22.105 --> 00:50:25.145 So here's the first question is first of all, who 695 00:50:25.704 --> 00:50:27.704 can a human being validate these proofs? 696 00:50:30.970 --> 00:50:33.690 Isn't that the idea with the formalization 697 00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:35.530 that it basically, like, takes 698 00:50:35.690 --> 00:50:42.170 you take little baby brick by brick and you build it up? Like, there's, like, 10,000 sub proofs that are part of the neighbor strokes proof. 699 00:50:43.255 --> 00:50:48.775 Right? Isn't that supposed to be part of it that like you take these discrete pieces and you build them up to a complete understanding? 700 00:50:49.655 --> 00:50:52.935 Yeah. But what do we know? Like I guess the question is how do what 701 00:50:53.815 --> 00:50:55.015 do we know of 702 00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:56.520 that validation? 703 00:50:57.720 --> 00:51:03.160 Well, I guess this is the, this is maybe to your point too, the problem with using mathematical proofs, 704 00:51:03.560 --> 00:51:04.840 and like groundbreaking 705 00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.600 like discoveries as like research, it hasn't gone through peer review yet. 706 00:51:09.295 --> 00:51:10.415 And, 707 00:51:10.415 --> 00:51:14.255 you know, you also have to ask what's the this is like, 708 00:51:14.655 --> 00:51:23.360 I really love this conversation because this goes back to what's the point of mathematics to begin with. Mean, and I'm not saying I know what the point is, but like, in my mind, 709 00:51:23.680 --> 00:51:25.440 you know, if you really just go back 710 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.120 and ask what the hell is even mathematics, 711 00:51:29.120 --> 00:51:29.840 right? 712 00:51:30.720 --> 00:51:32.000 It's not 713 00:51:32.640 --> 00:51:34.400 adding, it's not calculation, 714 00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:36.400 it's not arithmetic, it's not computation. 715 00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.705 In fact, at some level to me, mathematics is nothing more than 716 00:51:40.025 --> 00:51:41.945 a general thought exercise 717 00:51:43.305 --> 00:51:44.025 that 718 00:51:44.585 --> 00:51:45.705 works 719 00:51:46.505 --> 00:51:47.785 towards formalization. 720 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:51.400 It's a thought exercise. 721 00:51:51.560 --> 00:51:56.680 You know, it's just a the reason why we use number systems is because those are like 722 00:51:57.640 --> 00:52:00.360 sort of good game board pieces 723 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.215 to help make the arguments. It's the same reason you use cards in poker. 724 00:52:05.695 --> 00:52:06.575 It's just 725 00:52:06.815 --> 00:52:14.015 they help make form the argument. Poker is no more they like a game of poker is no more than a thought exercise. 726 00:52:14.575 --> 00:52:17.855 Sure. And, you know, somebody says I'm better than you. 727 00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:19.770 And, 728 00:52:19.850 --> 00:52:27.370 you know, they're going to act and imply that they are but everyone knows at the end, everyone's going to find out if we get there. 729 00:52:27.610 --> 00:52:31.690 Right? But it's still it's just a game. It's a game to say I have an argument. 730 00:52:32.454 --> 00:52:35.175 And you either believe it and you or you don't. 731 00:52:35.734 --> 00:52:40.135 And we're gonna, you know, we're gonna bet our assets against. 732 00:52:40.214 --> 00:52:43.095 We're gonna use the fact that we're betting our assets against 733 00:52:43.575 --> 00:52:48.530 the fact that I have an argument to make. You can make a you're welcome to make a counterargument. 734 00:52:48.930 -->

00:52:55.170 And that's that's the game. And the mathematics at the high level is nothing more than thought exercises that 735 00:52:56.050 --> 00:52:57.330 become formalized, 736 00:52:58.685 --> 00:53:00.445 you know, through the 737 00:53:00.925 --> 00:53:05.885 little pieces. Like, the amino acids are the number systems. Do you think aesthetically 738 00:53:06.765 --> 00:53:16.420 there's, like like, there's something, like, aesthetically displeasing about these formal like, these mathematical formalized proofs as like machine code versus like papers? 739 00:53:19.140 --> 00:53:21.940 No. I actually in in some ways, it's preferable. 740 00:53:22.665 --> 00:53:28.825 Right? In some ways, I think it's if you're gonna make these formal if you're gonna do these formalizations, 741 00:53:29.625 --> 00:53:33.625 right, I think this is this may be a great breakthrough in the formalization. 742 00:53:33.865 --> 00:53:34.585 Right. 743 00:53:34.985 --> 00:53:38.490 I was thinking, like, the formalizations too actually make it more approachable 744 00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:46.890 for people to be able to follow along in the proofs and distribute the knowledge. Because, like, when this eventually gets published and I wanna ask, like, how does this work? 745 00:53:47.575 --> 00:53:58.455 It'll have the total sum rather than it being like predictive text guessing how to like answer my question. It's just going to load the proof and look at the code and then translate that into words which is a much cleaner 746 00:53:58.535 --> 00:54:04.580 way to make sure things don't get lost in translation than scanning the papers and trying to predictively token guess the next word. 747 00:54:05.779 --> 00:54:06.339 Yeah, 748 00:54:07.779 --> 00:54:10.180 if anything, what this is doing 749 00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:11.300 is 750 00:54:11.539 --> 00:54:13.619 it's exposing the need 751 00:54:15.635 --> 00:54:16.675 in AI. 752 00:54:17.075 --> 00:54:19.715 What it's doing is it's advancing AI 753 00:54:19.795 --> 00:54:24.915 more than it's advancing math. Because what AI doesn't have is a great audit function 754 00:54:25.555 --> 00:54:28.030 to audit every action 755 00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:32.830 that it does. And that's what's needed. That's what you know, so in other words, maybe, know, if anything, 756 00:54:33.630 --> 00:54:39.069 this idea of we're going to go through a thought exercise called can AI actually prove anything? 757 00:54:40.134 --> 00:54:44.855 Well, what would be needed in order to demonstrate that? Well, we would need a really, 758 00:54:45.174 --> 00:54:49.815 you know, we used to have this problem. I'll say I used to have this problem in quant space, 759 00:54:49.974 --> 00:54:52.775 when you had Monte Carlo simulations 760 00:54:53.609 --> 00:54:56.410 that were using, say, ephemeral seeds, 761 00:54:56.569 --> 00:54:57.130 and 762 00:54:58.569 --> 00:55:01.529 you know, you really wanted to basically validate 763 00:55:01.529 --> 00:55:02.170

your 764 00:55:03.769 --> 00:55:04.650 calculation, 765 00:55:04.809 --> 00:55:06.170 your 20,000 766 00:55:06.375 --> 00:55:07.335 scenarios, 767 00:55:07.335 --> 00:55:09.735 but you really couldn't do it because you're, 768 00:55:10.615 --> 00:55:11.575 you know, you were generate 769 00:55:12.295 --> 00:55:14.775 like, back back before disk space 770 00:55:15.415 --> 00:55:16.055 was, 771 00:55:16.455 --> 00:55:22.840 you know, before Moore's law allowed for it, you would just you know, you wouldn't store all the simulations in memory. 772 00:55:23.080 --> 00:55:27.400 Right? You would destroy them. And then you would have your results. 773 00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:30.760 And you would say, well, my math says the average, 774 00:55:31.560 --> 00:55:35.575 know, the math of it's called the Feynman Cag theorem 775 00:55:35.895 --> 00:55:39.815 says that the average of all these simulations is equals 776 00:55:40.934 --> 00:55:42.055 the expected 777 00:55:42.375 --> 00:55:42.694 value. And 778 00:55:44.970 --> 00:55:47.130 okay, good, right? But then it's like, 779 00:55:47.450 --> 00:55:48.570 at some point, 780 00:55:48.970 --> 00:55:49.610 right? 781 00:55:49.770 --> 00:55:51.290 The banks got wrecked. 782 00:55:51.850 --> 00:55:55.290 Because they couldn't validate that they actually couldn't validate that 783 00:55:55.290 --> 00:55:58.250 their simulations even converged to that expectation. 784 00:55:58.815 --> 00:55:59.615 Right. 785 00:55:59.855 --> 00:56:06.095 So what needed to be done was to go back, you know, was to go back underneath that hood and say, hey, before you destroy that, 786 00:56:06.494 --> 00:56:20.590 we, you know, no, we need to store all that. Right. Right. Right. And then we need to hire a team literally that's just gonna look at the thread that The logs. Goes through all that. It goes through all those, and we call that audit trail. I mean, this is the audit trail is just like, 787 00:56:21.230 --> 00:56:24.750 you know, if you're a boss of the function that 788 00:56:24.990 --> 00:56:26.785 does all that, your 789 00:56:27.585 --> 00:56:29.665 your fucking head spins all the You 790 00:56:30.305 --> 00:56:34.145 know, you're dealing with, you know, I remember when the 65,000 791 00:56:34.145 --> 00:56:37.025 row limit in Excel was finally exceeded. 792 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:41.360 You know, because you couldn't even then bring these things into 793 00:56:41.680 --> 00:56:43.119 what that's from, right? 794 00:56:43.680 --> 00:56:44.960 Bytes 65, 795 00:56:45.200 --> 00:56:47.520 five thirty four. That's FF, 796 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:48.640 is it? It's 797 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:50.400 two to the 16. 798 00:56:51.359 --> 00:56:53.875 Yeah. Isn't that FF? And x? I think x. 799 00:56:54.835 --> 00:56:58.675 Well, two to the 16 minus one. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. 800 00:56:59.875 --> 00:57:01.474 Right. So, like, again, 801 00:57:02.035 --> 00:57:03.795 this is all to say that 802 00:57:04.850 --> 00:57:05.490 what 803 00:57:05.730 --> 00:57:08.130 the human race may be grappling 804 00:57:08.130 --> 00:57:12.290 with and what this is all contributing to is this ability 805 00:57:13.010 --> 00:57:13.970 to validate. 806 00:57:14.850 --> 00:57:22.075 And you know, we were not very good before AI at validating and then AI has come and put even a whole nother level, 807 00:57:22.075 --> 00:57:23.755 whole levels of 808 00:57:24.875 --> 00:57:25.915 abstraction 809 00:57:25.994 --> 00:57:28.635 on you know, like untraceable abstraction 810 00:57:28.635 --> 00:57:30.555 into the I'm 811 00:57:30.555 --> 00:57:33.195 guessing most people don't even know that it's deterministic. 812 00:57:34.340 --> 00:57:38.180 It just quick correction. Two to the 16 minus one is FFFF. 813 00:57:38.180 --> 00:57:40.340 It's four F's. FFFF. 814 00:57:41.300 --> 00:57:41.780 You. 815 00:57:42.100 --> 00:57:45.860 That, you know, we're in the bath pod. We gotta get that right. I 816 00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:48.100 would rather just keep rage baiting 817 00:57:48.744 --> 00:57:57.785 people like Alan into, like, coming on a show. Coming on and just being incorrect. Yeah. Just leave these errors. I've I've learned the wisdom of just leaving these errors out there. Right. 818 00:57:58.665 --> 00:57:58.984 Totally. 819 00:58:01.010 --> 00:58:05.250 Right. But, like, so maybe what were the inflection point for humanity now is that, 820 00:58:06.050 --> 00:58:15.010 a like, AI is exposing the fact that we were not very good AI and Bitcoin are exposing the fact that we were not very good at validating things before the fact before all this. 821 00:58:15.915 --> 00:58:20.715 We didn't care, and we didn't know, and it's necessary as fuck to do it. And, 822 00:58:21.595 --> 00:58:23.035 know, and I think that's 823 00:58:23.515 --> 00:58:26.875 to me, that's the only value here being brought to bear. 824 00:58:32.490 --> 00:58:33.930 Maybe 825 00:58:33.930 --> 00:58:39.290 the field of mathematics is limited by our ability to validate also. Maybe we're 826 00:58:39.290 --> 00:58:42.985 not ready. We're just not ready to spend the next three fifty years 827 00:58:43.705 --> 00:58:45.305 off finding 828 00:58:45.625 --> 00:58:46.585 new math 829 00:58:46.985 --> 00:58:50.905 to solve naive or stokes. Right? We're just not ready to do that. 830 00:58:52.440 --> 00:59:00.360 I almost feel in the same spirit of that, though, if we're able to build the tools that are able to solve it and use the technology, maybe we haven't arrived to the point where it's time to solve it. 831 00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:09.815 Perhaps. Doctor. Right. And like, this is the complicated part of it. They've announced that they've solved it but it hasn't been peer reviewed yet. The peer review is going to take 832 00:59:11.095 --> 00:59:12.535 a year like 833 00:59:13.335 --> 00:59:18.535 months, year like I don't know like It could take a day where they realized something was wrong. 834 00:59:19.119 -->

00:59:19.760 Right. 835 00:59:20.560 --> 00:59:25.360 Right. That's what I mean. And like this is such a complicated thing. It takes time to validate these things. 836 00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:30.240 It means mean even that after you're a Yeah. After a while. I mean, after a while I 837 00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:38.285 could look it up like what was the time between when he, you know, when he submitted it to the time where it got peer reviewed? 838 00:59:39.805 --> 00:59:42.365 Talking about Fermat's Less Theorem. Yeah. 839 00:59:43.805 --> 00:59:44.525 It's 840 00:59:45.244 --> 00:59:47.405 it's gonna take this may take longer. 841 00:59:48.770 --> 00:59:50.130 And the question is, 842 00:59:52.210 --> 00:59:52.690 know, 843 00:59:53.250 --> 01:00:06.285 this is the same thing we deal with in Bitcoin and what we talk about on the podcast, which is the gap between the people doing this, and us is so much bigger. Even though we like we're all on Twitter engaging in this conversation. 844 01:00:06.605 --> 01:00:09.325 We're all in the public sphere engaging in this. 845 01:00:09.884 --> 01:00:15.820 Dude, mean, I can't believe how many people have asked me about this in the last couple of weeks. It's big news. Yeah. 846 01:00:16.540 --> 01:00:19.020 We're all engaging as though understand 847 01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:22.140 it. But the gap between the people 848 01:00:22.220 --> 01:00:24.780 doing the peer review and us is 849 01:00:25.674 --> 01:00:26.714 absurdly. 850 01:00:26.714 --> 01:00:29.275 It's absurdly great. Right? Yeah. 851 01:00:29.515 --> 01:00:30.315 Absolutely. 852 01:00:31.994 --> 01:00:38.155 Some level, that's just why I feel like it's annoying that it's being even it's even a dinner conversation 853 01:00:38.155 --> 01:00:38.635 topic. 854 01:00:40.520 --> 01:00:42.920 You finally made it and you're not getting what you want? 855 01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.160 Well, wouldn't do it. 856 01:00:46.040 --> 01:00:50.360 Matt's dinner table conversation now. It's like the monkey's paw but at the worst context. 857 01:00:50.680 --> 01:00:59.975 We finally made it. Yes. And it's ex yeah. Exactly. You know what? I mean, yeah, this is the Mark Twain thing. Right? Like, I never I I 858 01:01:00.375 --> 01:01:02.855 wanna be in, like, every club except for the ones that would have me. 859 01:01:05.030 --> 01:01:06.630 Yeah. Was that Mark Twain or 860 01:01:09.910 --> 01:01:19.915 I've been a professional podcaster, and I've sneezed three times in the past thirty seconds without letting you guys all at home, but we're casual here. So you guys know that's why keep abruptly pausing my mic with half thoughts. Yeah. 861 01:01:20.075 --> 01:01:20.475 Those 862 01:01:20.954 --> 01:01:24.155 Trinidad scorpion peppers while you're doing podcasts. 863 01:01:24.315 --> 01:01:25.434 That's 864 01:01:25.434 --> 01:01:29.994 right. But, yeah, at this any club that would wanna have me is a club I don't wanna be part of. 865 01:01:30.555 --> 01:01:32.635

Yeah. That's I thought that was Mark Twain. 866 01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:33.960 Yeah. 867 01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:47.480 Anyhow, I mean and it's not to say, hey. Let's not discuss it. But I just think it's just wild. It's it's just wild that it's the same thing kind of in the sec p two fifty six space where it's like, 868 01:01:49.255 --> 01:01:57.095 we can't have the same conversations about that library that we can have about Bitcoin Core because this the distance between them and us is so big. Well, 869 01:01:57.415 --> 01:02:04.190 I will say I would love to start having people start thinking about formal mathematical proving of sec p and also SHA two fifty six. 870 01:02:04.990 --> 01:02:05.789 Yes. So 871 01:02:06.910 --> 01:02:24.255 was Like like, those are that's really like the two load bearing things in Bitcoin are SecP and SHA two, and I wouldn't hate if some people started nerds getting nerds sniped into doing formal proofs for those two. You don't have to formally prove the p two p networking layer of Bitcoin. I don't care about that at the same level of, like, critical nature. 872 01:02:24.494 --> 01:02:30.654 But understanding that we that SHA two is secure within our understanding and SecP would be critical. 873 01:02:31.130 --> 01:02:33.770 Like people should get paid grants to do that for a year. 874 01:02:34.410 --> 01:02:44.970 Yeah. I told my daughter, I was like, you know, this stuff is good. She know, everyone's bombarded, you know, because she's a senior in college and a math major, and everyone's bombarding her now. Like, oh, no. 875 01:02:45.965 --> 01:02:46.685 AI is gonna 876 01:02:48.445 --> 01:02:49.085 you know, 877 01:02:49.565 --> 01:02:53.245 there's no more need for mathematicians anymore. And I'm sitting here laughing. 878 01:02:54.205 --> 01:02:56.205 You know, when I was a senior in college, 879 01:02:57.405 --> 01:02:59.960 studying to be an actuary, everybody 880 01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:00.760 was saying, 881 01:03:01.240 --> 01:03:04.440 well, there's computers for that now. So like, what do they 882 01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:06.120 do they need them for? 883 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:13.160 And I will say I here's the other thing I wanted to talk about a little bit is that I actually think that this makes 884 01:03:13.535 --> 01:03:19.295 human beings more valuable. I think AI is actually making human beings more valuable, and I'm not starting to see it clearly. 885 01:03:20.495 --> 01:03:22.495 Not all of them, but like, 886 01:03:24.015 --> 01:03:29.410 know, I think the top 10% of them that can keep that have ability 887 01:03:30.130 --> 01:03:30.850 to 888 01:03:31.330 --> 01:03:34.450 stay above stick and tread water and wield it, 889 01:03:35.170 --> 01:03:36.530 I think are 890 01:03:36.930 --> 01:03:38.450 going to be insanely valuable. 891 01:03:39.505 --> 01:03:41.905 I think that the bottom 50% 892 01:03:41.905 --> 01:03:44.705 of humanity is gonna have their lives improved by it. 893 01:03:45.185 --> 01:03:48.625 And then I think that that midwit 40% is fucked. 894 01:03:51.265 --> 01:03:52.865 I 895 01:03:52.270 --> 01:03:53.710 maybe believe with that. 896 01:03:54.190 --> 01:03:55.550 Yeah. I think I'd 897 01:03:57.230 --> 01:03:58.670 there's I'm 898 01:03:58.670 --> 01:04:00.190 I'm fundamentally an optimist. 899 01:04:00.350 --> 01:04:01.230 I actually 900 01:04:01.790 --> 01:04:06.030 I think I'll have to think on this conversation more. I'm I'm not sure 901 01:04:07.585 --> 01:04:11.025 we maybe have maybe a good follow-up conversation with a spirited 902 01:04:11.025 --> 01:04:12.545 disagreement about this stuff 903 01:04:13.424 --> 01:04:14.785 because I think 904 01:04:15.585 --> 01:04:17.105 one fundamentally 905 01:04:17.585 --> 01:04:18.305 as an optimist, 906 01:04:19.089 --> 01:04:19.810 I 907 01:04:19.970 --> 01:04:20.770 view 908 01:04:20.770 --> 01:04:23.650 these tools as further accelerating 909 01:04:23.970 --> 01:04:26.370 the most productive people to doing more things. 910 01:04:26.770 --> 01:04:28.530 Right? And 911 01:04:28.770 --> 01:04:31.329 that is not strictly an intelligence thing. 912 01:04:32.845 --> 01:04:35.645 It is also people who are motivated and self determined. 913 01:04:35.885 --> 01:04:39.565 I think the red team stuff is a good just snapshot example of 914 01:04:40.045 --> 01:04:48.440 being motivated and wanting to challenge yourself and, like, do hard things. You're able to quickly catch up. There have been untold number of conversations I've had in the past six weeks 915 01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:58.840 where I'll talk to someone who I'd consider a gray beard in Bitcoin or someone who is way smarter than me that that never two years ago would have thought I'd be getting them on the technical details of something. And 916 01:05:00.734 --> 01:05:16.350 they will I'll have a thesis. They'll say, well, no because x y and z. And I'll say, me put it in my clinker real quick and they'll laugh at me being like, but you don't understand this? I'm like, no. And then my clinker comes back with like a very pointed like counterpoint like, oh, actually, you know what? You may be right. Right? And that's just me is like, 917 01:05:16.829 --> 01:05:23.310 I'm a I'm a dumb insurance salesman. You know what I mean? And Aaron Redwing describes it as the the tarot card, the fool. 918 01:05:23.630 --> 01:05:29.310 That and the fool, everyone laughs at the fool, but the fool steps off the cliff and falls 919 01:05:29.470 --> 01:05:30.109 and 920 01:05:30.365 --> 01:05:33.085 is fine because he he is unburdened. 921 01:05:33.325 --> 01:05:39.165 Right? So you just I'm willingly waving my hand saying I'm ignorant, which, like, there's no ego death or, like, 922 01:05:40.444 --> 01:05:41.645 there's no shame. 923 01:05:41.805 --> 01:05:43.005 I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm 924 01:05:43.645 --> 01:05:46.820 yeah. Right. Yeah. And yeah. Exactly. 925 01:05:46.820 --> 01:05:50.020 Kama prescient Kama, one of my

favorite modern philosophers. 926 01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:51.380 And 927 01:05:53.380 --> 01:05:54.980 it's interesting. 928 01:05:55.060 --> 01:06:01.700 And so, like, in the math space, seeing that, like, a bunch of people can just walk in and just do things that all of the wizards weren't able to do previously, 929 01:06:02.235 --> 01:06:05.115 I think is a positive story. Think there's 930 01:06:05.515 --> 01:06:06.875 and I think 931 01:06:07.195 --> 01:06:13.435 There's more hands to pick up a hammer. There's more hands to pick up a hammer. That's a good point way of phrasing it and 932 01:06:13.995 --> 01:06:16.475 there's going to be social and psychological 933 01:06:16.950 --> 01:06:23.190 changes for people who were used to a previous order who are not yet adjusted to the new set facts of things. And additionally, 934 01:06:23.190 --> 01:06:24.470 there's a part of 935 01:06:24.869 --> 01:06:26.070 it's happening. 936 01:06:26.150 --> 01:06:33.965 So living in the world where this is now happening and I cannot stop it and understanding how to reconcile that because resistance is futile. 937 01:06:34.125 --> 01:06:35.165 Like like, 938 01:06:35.165 --> 01:06:42.444 you're Yeah. Like, the the the store the the the toothpaste is not going back in the tube. You're not undoing this knowledge of, like and this ability to do this stuff. So 939 01:06:43.420 --> 01:06:49.100 the those who adapt sooner are gonna be better off rather than resisting it along the way. 940 01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:56.060 So interesting too because Kayla's also a math minor I'm sorry, a music minor. And everyone in music's having the same conversation. 941 01:06:56.694 --> 01:06:58.375 Yeah. Like like, oh, 942 01:06:58.934 --> 01:07:00.455 the barrier to entry now 943 01:07:00.775 --> 01:07:03.415 is so low to be Everyone's 944 01:07:03.415 --> 01:07:18.180 having this conversation. There's not me being honest. Maybe like, oh, my son's gonna be a plumber. It's like, okay. And then in in seven years when, like, the optimist robots from Elon can just be loaded in with, like, the plumber, like, brain map. Like, it's all everything's getting conversation. 945 01:07:18.180 --> 01:07:19.700 Like, your employability 946 01:07:20.420 --> 01:07:21.860 versus your value 947 01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:27.355 is a different there's this is a different conversation. And then, like, when I say value, 948 01:07:27.435 --> 01:07:34.395 I'm probably talking much higher level of like, what is the value of a human being? And I think math and music are two areas that 949 01:07:35.595 --> 01:07:38.555 do demonstrate that clearly without necessarily 950 01:07:38.555 --> 01:07:49.780 regard to who's going to pay them to do what they do. Because that we have a what like that's what I was saying before is there's an incentive issue that's now also going to have to get worked out to line up 951 01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:53.140 the value with actually getting paid for that value. 952 01:07:54.835 -->

01:07:59.555 A lot of what you said can be done right now is being done on a volunteer basis. 953 01:08:00.995 --> 01:08:10.350 Right? A lot of what people can do with red team and a lot of what people can do to get and that and the thing is, you know, okay, there's this conversation that if you are 954 01:08:11.869 --> 01:08:18.909 you're poor, you can't help. Right? We had this conversation last week, like you have to have your own oxygen. So if you're like fucking poor, 955 01:08:19.230 --> 01:08:20.265 and just trying 956 01:08:20.745 --> 01:08:24.825 to make your own living, you're not gonna you're not gonna open up a clanker and try to figure out, 957 01:08:25.385 --> 01:08:37.949 you know, what technical details of Bitcoin do I not understand? You're just not gonna do that. Right? So like, that's the first. That's why say it's an agency thing, not just an intelligence thing. You can have low IQ, high agents, like people that wanna like better do things. 958 01:08:38.429 --> 01:08:38.989 So 959 01:08:39.230 --> 01:08:46.510 it's you have to be in a position to do it. And for, you know, I you know, poor can mean a lot of things. But if you're time poor, we'll just say, 960 01:08:48.825 --> 01:08:55.145 which means you could, you know, like, I'm guessing the c the CEO of the company I last company I worked for doesn't 961 01:08:55.305 --> 01:08:56.585 isn't doing this either. 962 01:08:56.825 --> 01:08:58.585 You know, they're spending all 963 01:08:58.745 --> 01:09:00.185 their time making decks. 964 01:09:00.850 --> 01:09:02.210 That's 965 01:09:02.210 --> 01:09:09.889 all they do. Like, you know, if you if you spend literally twenty four hours a day making decks, you're not using AI to do any of this. You're not you're not helping. 966 01:09:10.530 --> 01:09:20.405 And so that's all. So there's this little pocket of people in Bitcoin that seem that seem to be able to spend time on things without needing to get paid right away. 967 01:09:21.285 --> 01:09:24.805 Okay. There's a small pocket of those types of people. 968 01:09:25.525 --> 01:09:30.245 And maybe there's the children right now, the children of 969 01:09:29.470 --> 01:09:30.590 well off people 970 01:09:31.310 --> 01:09:37.870 that can do that as well. Whether or not they're motivated to or not is a different question, but they can. They're not time poor. 971 01:09:39.470 --> 01:09:42.350 And probably caught you know, so like 972 01:09:43.935 --> 01:09:45.775 it's a fine 973 01:09:47.375 --> 01:09:48.975 needle to thread here 974 01:09:49.215 --> 01:09:50.495 in terms of like, 975 01:09:51.775 --> 01:09:54.655 trying to unpack what makes human beings valuable. 976 01:09:55.630 --> 01:09:58.590 What's going on with AI right now that's challenging 977 01:09:58.590 --> 01:10:00.190 that value equation, 978 01:10:01.230 --> 01:10:03.070 where people are saying, well, you know, 979 01:10:03.950 --> 01:10:13.395 human beings won't be valuable, friend. You know, there's a certain camp of people that's like, no, this is all going to be done by robots and human beings have no value. And I refuse to believe that. I do too. 980 01:10:14.515 --> 01:10:27.540 And so what I'm saying is I the more this happens, and the more I see it, like I've been we've been doing AI music for years, right? I feel like we've been on the we've been on the forefront of AI music in a lot of ways. 981 01:10:28.420 --> 01:10:31.540 I've had a couple number one tracks on Wavelake. Thank you very But 982 01:10:34.580 --> 01:10:39.504 what I'm saying is, I've always been see I've always seen that like, the 983 01:10:41.105 --> 01:10:43.024 value of humans is 984 01:10:44.385 --> 01:10:46.064 always increasing, 985 01:10:46.065 --> 01:11:11.235 the more it looks like it's decreasing. Right? And it's like, you know, I see I go to fish shows and I go to, you know, I see how people react to live music and the kind of thing that can be that computers just can't do. You know, there's people I have friends that go to these EDM festivals, and they're fun and all that. But then they, like, those guys are starting now first to come around and to like want to see bands like fish and they want like it's 986 01:11:11.235 --> 01:11:15.715 why is that after like thirty-forty years of obscurity are people 987 01:11:16.115 --> 01:11:24.630 who like to you know, people who go to concerts and have fun and spend a lot of their savings doing it all of a sudden finding their way 988 01:11:25.190 --> 01:11:26.790 to a live act, 989 01:11:27.110 --> 01:11:31.429 to a real live act, something that can't be actually just can't be done electronically. 990 01:11:32.310 --> 01:11:44.625 And so there's something that you know, I don't know that this is all high minded, I guess. Think boy shit. But like, I'm just saying that the value of humans is very to me is very present. It's in I see it in music. 991 01:11:44.945 --> 01:11:46.785 And I see it in math. And I'm like, 992 01:11:47.265 --> 01:11:51.150 having a convincing argument with my daughter that she's on the right track, that 993 01:11:51.710 --> 01:11:59.949 being a senior in college as a math major is a great thing to be right now. Because the math community is going to need 994 01:12:00.270 --> 01:12:01.869 capable human beings 995 01:12:02.110 --> 01:12:03.230 so much. 996 01:12:03.885 --> 01:12:11.405 And, you know, my point about when I was an actual when I was being, you know, actuarial science major, and everyone said that that's going to be replaced by computers. 997 01:12:13.165 --> 01:12:15.724 You know, in 1996, when I graduated college, 998 01:12:15.805 --> 01:12:16.365 actuaries 999 01:12:17.130 --> 01:12:19.289 basically did life insurance and 1000 01:12:20.090 --> 01:12:22.409 basic property casualty insurance. And that was it. 1001 01:12:23.210 --> 01:12:23.849 And 1002 01:12:24.090 --> 01:12:27.289 they I don't know how many people were employed in the space. 1003 01:12:27.770 --> 01:12:34.564 Oh, they did

pensions, right? And guess what pensions are gone. Life insurance is very, it runs by itself. 1004 01:12:34.885 --> 01:12:41.364 And most property casualty insurance runs by itself. But now you, you know, I didn't know that the career would let me 1005 01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:46.159 run, you know, multi 1006 01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:47.119 $100,000,000,000 1007 01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:48.239 hedging programs, 1008 01:12:49.280 --> 01:12:53.359 because they'd be selling the stupidest and most complicated financial products 1009 01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:55.440 known to man. Spreadsheets 1010 01:12:55.855 --> 01:13:05.135 and computers allowed for that. And so what I'm saying is what we know, what math does in this field is a tiny speck of what it'll be in twenty years. 1011 01:13:05.775 --> 01:13:07.935 And AI is going to cause that. 1012 01:13:08.495 --> 01:13:08.815 Right? 1013 01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:12.560 And you can be a very valuable human being 1014 01:13:12.960 --> 01:13:14.000 by chasing 1015 01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:20.400 that wave. I think having high agency which I think is actually from a sense of 1016 01:13:22.574 --> 01:13:24.574 economic forces and 1017 01:13:26.414 --> 01:13:42.550 evolutionary biology. I think while intelligence obviously is critically important like how many highly intelligent people do you know that have low agency and they aren't doing anything, Right. I want the people that are really mixed. Most. Right. You actually have a curse where you get to a certain level of intelligence, your productivity drops off. 1018 01:13:43.110 --> 01:13:48.870 And I think it's beautiful the idea that people who are have high agency or self determined or unwilling to go just do things 1019 01:13:49.235 --> 01:13:58.275 are the ones who are rewarded. And I think AI removing the IQ gap barrier that would prevent you previously from doing things is now diminishing 1020 01:13:58.915 --> 01:13:59.555 is a Like good 1021 01:14:01.260 --> 01:14:05.659 I say that as a one zero five IQ person. Right? Like, just smart enough to know that I'm dumb. 1022 01:14:07.579 --> 01:14:09.979 Yeah. We were we're gonna go challenge 1023 01:14:10.780 --> 01:14:19.315 the E and Y audits on your IQ. That's right. That's right. Figure that. I was making a joke about red team just starting to go through SEC filings. 1024 01:14:20.355 --> 01:14:20.835 You 1025 01:14:21.635 --> 01:14:29.875 just start red teaming the whole stock market. You just start going through it. You know who'd be great for this heated debate? We're gonna have a appointed heated 1026 01:14:30.160 --> 01:14:32.480 worldview debate on this, you know who'd be either 1027 01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:35.599 great or absolutely terrible? 1028 01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:36.800 Good one. 1029 01:14:38.400 --> 01:14:43.760 Oh, we have a good conversation with him. We should just bring him on some point for sure regardless. He just has such strong views on AI. 1030 01:14:44.325 --> 01:14:48.164 I know. I know. I've been meaning to catch up with him about all the stuff I've been doing. 1031 01:14:49.364 --> 01:14:51.605 Yeah. Like, I I think, you know, 1032 01:14:52.885 --> 01:14:56.085 I I've I like I've wanted to have him on the math podcast, 1033 01:14:57.460 --> 01:15:05.140 But I like just I don't know waiting for the right. Think now we should find a good time to do that. We should we should load him up. That would be a fun one. We should do that. Yeah. 1034 01:15:05.620 --> 01:15:10.500 What is our next actual like big? Are we doing hash function still? Is that our next big like 1035 01:15:10.965 --> 01:15:12.724 thing we're gonna hopper. 1036 01:15:12.725 --> 01:15:16.885 I'm still make you know, I I will admit I have 1037 01:15:17.685 --> 01:15:18.644 I have 1038 01:15:18.885 --> 01:15:20.324 pointed my efforts 1039 01:15:20.565 --> 01:15:22.164 elsewhere mathematically, 1040 01:15:22.565 --> 01:15:22.804 mostly 1041 01:15:24.710 --> 01:15:25.829 career oriented 1042 01:15:26.070 --> 01:15:28.789 in a career oriented fashion. But 1043 01:15:29.190 --> 01:15:34.469 I have a full study guide on hash functions. Just haven't I haven't been through it. Okay. 1044 01:15:35.270 --> 01:15:37.429 Okay. So like I have a I have it. 1045 01:15:38.075 --> 01:15:43.275 Yeah. I have probably I have dozens of study guides on subjects we could go through. 1046 01:15:43.595 --> 01:15:46.475 Yep. But I haven't been through like a full review. 1047 01:15:46.715 --> 01:15:47.355 Yeah. 1048 01:15:49.355 --> 01:15:57.070 And, you know, I do I do also have limited time, believe it or not, despite the fact that I'm not getting paid a cent for any of 1049 01:15:57.470 --> 01:16:09.855 to be here right now. I'm not being paid to be here right now. Big big math and big big math doesn't cut the checks like big Bitcoin. No. No. The big math you know, when big math starts making the Omnicos, man, maybe I'll start to Soon. 1050 01:16:11.135 --> 01:16:18.780 Okay. So that's that. That was good. If anything, if nothing else, the last forty five minutes, we can just release without the Yeah. 1051 01:16:19.180 --> 01:16:32.704 The Without our technical totally. Totally. We can just jump into it. If it's gonna like, honestly, if it's gonna take me, like, a day of like, I'll spend a full day trying to pull it together, but I don't know. Are we formally tying off the podcast? Are we doing post production talk on the pods? 1052 01:16:33.985 --> 01:16:35.184 Well, I'm thinking 1053 01:16:36.385 --> 01:16:40.304 where are we now? Are we good? I'm trying to think that I get it all. We're like an hour and 1054 01:16:40.625 --> 01:16:41.824 twenty minutes recorded 1055 01:16:41.985 --> 01:16:50.900 between the two. And so worst case scenario, this forty five minutes we can just jump into it. Hit, you know, we hit the good stuff. And then if you wanna combine them, go for it. 1056 01:16:51.860 --> 01:16:58.420 I'm gonna do my best to combine them. Well, think you're I think you're gonna want to because the first twenty minutes was a lot of the algebraic 1057 01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:04.055 representation of stuff. And so you're gonna have you you need you need to get that out of your system. You need to get that up into the world. 1058 01:17:07.168 --> 01:17:11.888 I think this is good though. Think we're ready to tie it off. Awesome. What do you think? Sick. I think we're great. 1059 01:17:12.288 --> 01:17:15.728 Alright. Magic Internet math in the books. Until next time.